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Ohio? More like Oh No for Trump, Vance, and the Republicans – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,671

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    If ?

    The chances of Vance being elected once, let alone twice, are nugatory.
  • Leon said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    He might not have much choice if rumours are correct and Trump is in swift cognitive decline. They won’t be able to hide it, Trump’s dementia (if he has it, and I think he does) is not the docile manageable senility of Biden. He tweets out his gibberish on social media

    Incidentally, at the Dark Hedges today I heard some American accents (it gets lots of tourists coz of Game of Thrones). For the first time in my life I felt a reflexive animosity, just because America. That has never happened to me before, I am instinctively pro American. Yes they can be irritating but basically I have - or I had - innate goodwill towards our cousins and offspring. It is dwindling and this is sad

    They need to stop electing mad presidents and they need to stop exporting insane ideas like Woke
    It would help if many of our younger people realised that it's a completely different country. According to the New Statesman discussion I posted earlier many young British women are terrified of Trump. They're scared about the whole trad wife phenomenon. As with BLM after the murder in Minnesota they seem immersed in an English language online culture with little sense of which side of the Atlantic they actually live on.
    I agree and I detest it. I blame in part the media, especially the BBC. They are obsessed with the USA. They breathlessly report American news as if it is British and thus import lots of wankiness

    It’s juvenile and embarrassing, it’s like they all watched West Wing and can’t get over it. Get over it
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,904
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I happened to be in Rome when he died. One of the few (only ?) times I’ve been adjacent to an historical event.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,879
    edited April 15

    Leon said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    He might not have much choice if rumours are correct and Trump is in swift cognitive decline. They won’t be able to hide it, Trump’s dementia (if he has it, and I think he does) is not the docile manageable senility of Biden. He tweets out his gibberish on social media

    Incidentally, at the Dark Hedges today I heard some American accents (it gets lots of tourists coz of Game of Thrones). For the first time in my life I felt a reflexive animosity, just because America. That has never happened to me before, I am instinctively pro American. Yes they can be irritating but basically I have - or I had - innate goodwill towards our cousins and offspring. It is dwindling and this is sad

    They need to stop electing mad presidents and they need to stop exporting insane ideas like Woke
    It would help if many of our younger people realised that it's a completely different country. According to the New Statesman discussion I posted earlier many young British women are terrified of Trump. They're scared about the whole trad wife phenomenon. As with BLM after the murder in Minnesota they seem immersed in an English language online culture with little sense of which side of the Atlantic they actually live on.
    I fear that this will only get worse. It's notable that Zack Polanski uses American spellings: "Real patrotism is loving your neighbor [sic]"

    https://x.com/ZackPolanski/status/2041210034625851513
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 89,671
    Foss said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    On the other hand, he may decide it's better to try to be a one and a half term President rather than a half term President.
    Or a half term President rather than a forgotten former VP.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    He might not have much choice if rumours are correct and Trump is in swift cognitive decline. They won’t be able to hide it, Trump’s dementia (if he has it, and I think he does) is not the docile manageable senility of Biden. He tweets out his gibberish on social media

    Incidentally, at the Dark Hedges today I heard some American accents (it gets lots of tourists coz of Game of Thrones). For the first time in my life I felt a reflexive animosity, just because America. That has never happened to me before, I am instinctively pro American. Yes they can be irritating but basically I have - or I had - innate goodwill towards our cousins and offspring. It is dwindling and this is sad

    They need to stop electing mad presidents and they need to stop exporting insane ideas like Woke
    It would help if many of our younger people realised that it's a completely different country. According to the New Statesman discussion I posted earlier many young British women are terrified of Trump. They're scared about the whole trad wife phenomenon. As with BLM after the murder in Minnesota they seem immersed in an English language online culture with little sense of which side of the Atlantic they actually live on.
    I agree and I detest it. I blame in part the media, especially the BBC. They are obsessed with the USA. They breathlessly report American news as if it is British and thus import lots of wankiness

    It’s juvenile and embarrassing, it’s like they all watched West Wing and can’t get over it. Get over it
    I get it because of the dominance of American culture, I'm guilty of focusing on it too much too, but the news reports of some pretty niche political or culture events in the USA can be extremely weird and grating.

    I'm not about to say 'how dare we not hear more about what's going on in Parisian politics?' or something, but minor american celebrities and politicians should not really be newsworthy to us.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,019
    Nigelb said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    If ?

    The chances of Vance being elected once, let alone twice, are nugatory.
    Well the 'if' was referring to Vance invoking the 25th, not winning an election but I take your point. I would like to think there is no chance of Vance being eleceted or relected as president in 2028. But then I was also confidence there was no chance of Trump winning in 2016 or 2024.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,860

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    Theres no way that Vance (whose ratings are the worst in VP history) is going to get re elected twice!. If he wants to be POTUS, Article 25 or the grim reaper are his only route.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 9,241
    https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2026/apr/14/v-and-a-censored-catalogues-demands-chinese-printer

    "V&A censored catalogues after demands by Chinese printer

    Exclusive: Victoria and Albert Museum has deleted maps and images deemed sensitive by Beijing censors from exhibition publications"

    British empire bad, Chinese empire good.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,896
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I was in the square outside St Peters when he gave his Easter address in about 1983. He gave his sermon in 7 or 8 different languages. I don't think I have ever seen someone with such charisma. It was spell binding even when you didn't have a clue what he was saying.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,520
    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?
  • kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    He might not have much choice if rumours are correct and Trump is in swift cognitive decline. They won’t be able to hide it, Trump’s dementia (if he has it, and I think he does) is not the docile manageable senility of Biden. He tweets out his gibberish on social media

    Incidentally, at the Dark Hedges today I heard some American accents (it gets lots of tourists coz of Game of Thrones). For the first time in my life I felt a reflexive animosity, just because America. That has never happened to me before, I am instinctively pro American. Yes they can be irritating but basically I have - or I had - innate goodwill towards our cousins and offspring. It is dwindling and this is sad

    They need to stop electing mad presidents and they need to stop exporting insane ideas like Woke
    It would help if many of our younger people realised that it's a completely different country. According to the New Statesman discussion I posted earlier many young British women are terrified of Trump. They're scared about the whole trad wife phenomenon. As with BLM after the murder in Minnesota they seem immersed in an English language online culture with little sense of which side of the Atlantic they actually live on.
    I agree and I detest it. I blame in part the media, especially the BBC. They are obsessed with the USA. They breathlessly report American news as if it is British and thus import lots of wankiness

    It’s juvenile and embarrassing, it’s like they all watched West Wing and can’t get over it. Get over it
    I get it because of the dominance of American culture, I'm guilty of focusing on it too much too, but the news reports of some pretty niche political or culture events in the USA can be extremely weird and grating.

    I'm not about to say 'how dare we not hear more about what's going on in Parisian politics?' or something, but minor american celebrities and politicians should not really be newsworthy to us.
    It warps our perspective badly. China is just as important as America - in some areas like trade and industry it is much more important. How often do we get lead news reports from the BBC about stuff happening in China? Almost never. They treat it like it is an exotic foreign place of middling importance, not much more salient than Thailand. It’s absurd

    The recent purge by Xi should have been massive news. But it required work and brains to transmit and explain it to the average Brit. Easier to do Hollywood celeb tattle or some gruesome American court case
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,879

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I happened to be in Rome when he died. One of the few (only ?) times I’ve been adjacent to an historical event.
    In Poland they announced the precise time of his death and 21:37 has become part of the culture.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,591
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I was in the square outside St Peters when he gave his Easter address in about 1983. He gave his sermon in 7 or 8 different languages. I don't think I have ever seen someone with such charisma. It was spell binding even when you didn't have a clue what he was saying.
    Rather like a Trump presser.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,591
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cz0eekymmkko

    Sheffield Wednesday are a disaster.

    Maybe @bigjohnowls would care to explain?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,896
    dixiedean said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I was in the square outside St Peters when he gave his Easter address in about 1983. He gave his sermon in 7 or 8 different languages. I don't think I have ever seen someone with such charisma. It was spell binding even when you didn't have a clue what he was saying.
    Rather like a Trump presser.
    Not been to one of those but from what I have seen on the TV I would say not.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,198
    Two cynical thoughts. It won’t affect any of us as we will be long dead by then (unless uploaded onto a robot in Westworld style).

    Beware journalism on climate - only the ‘it’s worse than we thought’ stories get attention.

    I think the slowdown in 2021 was overblown? May have misremembered that.

    Of course, were this to come about there would be huge challenges.
  • DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I was in the square outside St Peters when he gave his Easter address in about 1983. He gave his sermon in 7 or 8 different languages. I don't think I have ever seen someone with such charisma. It was spell binding even when you didn't have a clue what he was saying.
    I’m genuinely jealous. Of all the famous people who have lived at ‘the same time’ as me, Pope John Paul 2 is the one I regret never meeting, if that makes any sense. ‘Greatness’ in humans is a contentious idea, but I think he proves it exists. It is a perhaps a marriage of profound intelligence with moral bravery, or something like that. You also need a bit of luck, ‘some have greatness thrust upon them’ etc
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 56,860
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I was in the square outside St Peters when he gave his Easter address in about 1983. He gave his sermon in 7 or 8 different languages. I don't think I have ever seen someone with such charisma. It was spell binding even when you didn't have a clue what he was saying.
    Apparently quite a good goalkeeper too

    https://aleteia.org/2018/06/16/how-st-john-paul-ii-became-known-as-lolek-the-goalie/
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,896
    Arsenal are just not the same team without Saka. He gives them so much additional flair and penetration. They need him back.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,848
    dixiedean said:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cz0eekymmkko

    Sheffield Wednesday are a disaster.

    Maybe @bigjohnowls would care to explain?

    Starting so far behind the opposition they may as well rebrand to Sheffield Tuesday.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,580
    edited April 15
    DavidL said:

    Arsenal are just not the same team without Saka. He gives them so much additional flair and penetration. They need him back.

    Heard a rumour he's out for the rest of the season and the world cup.

    Hugo Ekitike is going to be out for 8 to 12 months with his injury.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,520
    @chadbourn.bsky.social‬

    Yassamin Ansari: “I’ve introduced Articles of Impeachment against Pete Hegseth for violating his oath, endangering US service members and committing war crimes, including attacks on civilians and a girls’ school in Minab, Iran. Only Congress can declare war; his actions demand immediate removal.”

    https://bsky.app/profile/chadbourn.bsky.social/post/3mjkpxdgkc22r
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 35,231

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    The last one. I was OK on Pope Palpatine too, I thought he was underrated.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,225
    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    I think so. I think the push back against the Trump Jesus image is another such sign. I don't think we'd have had the same reaction a year ago.

    I don't know whether it's because his deteriorating condition makes it obvious his time is limited. Or maybe it's anger at going so clearly against his America First platform with the Iran War and its impact on inflation that has done it. But I am cautiously optimistic that the ~11 year long hold Trump has had on the American Psyche may be finally breaking.

    If this is so, and it becomes obvious to more people that we're entering the Trump endgame, the era of lame duck Trump, then things could change very quickly. The jostling for what comes next would take over.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,200
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Bit of regional polling. ITV got More in Common to poll Birmingham for the LEs

    🌹 LAB: 32 (-33) — 23%
    ➡️ RFM: 26 (+26) — 22%
    🌳 CON: 25 (+2) — 18%
    🔶 LDM: 10 (-2) — 10%
    🌍 GRN: 7 (+2) — 16%
    👤 IND: 1 (+1) — 11%

    https://x.com/i/status/2044445537676529703

    Could have been worse for Labour though, they remain largest party in Birmingham
    Inides on 11% and 1 ward, though? Some polls cross the boundary from "outliers" to "obviously wrong".

    Though if those are the final scores, it puts the Conservatives in a bit of a pickle. Leave Failed Labour in place by sitting on their hands? Haul Reform over the line? Form a coalition of losers with the Lib Dems? None of the options is that attractive.
    I expect Birmingham Conservatives would abstain and let Labour form a minority administration as largest party still but remain in opposition to it
    Birmingham Conservatives are a shit shower of Vilers.

    They would destroy any hope of the Sports Quarter.

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,476
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    This may be extremely English and parochial of me as a coping mechanism, but sometimes very basic food can be the best.
    That’s not parochial and English, it’s a profound truth

    On my recent trip to Turkey they took me to some posh restaurants to impress me, and they were nice, and clever, but by far the best meal was the most basic and authentic in a shabby taverna in the hills, where I had slow roast goat with peppers and just baked and brilliantly charred flatbread. I could tell my hosts were nervous that I wouldn’t like the downmarket vibe but they said there was nowhere else to go. I tried to explain why I loved it more than all the others without offending them

    I do enjoy posh food, sometimes, but in the end the best food is nearly always fresh ingredients cooked as simply as possible
    The tastiest thing I've ever eaten was some Doubles in Trinidad, which are deep fried pancakes served with chickpea curry and hot sauce. You buy them on the street for about 50p.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 916

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    I think so. I think the push back against the Trump Jesus image is another such sign. I don't think we'd have had the same reaction a year ago.

    I don't know whether it's because his deteriorating condition makes it obvious his time is limited. Or maybe it's anger at going so clearly against his America First platform with the Iran War and its impact on inflation that has done it. But I am cautiously optimistic that the ~11 year long hold Trump has had on the American Psyche may be finally breaking.

    If this is so, and it becomes obvious to more people that we're entering the Trump endgame, the era of lame duck Trump, then things could change very quickly. The jostling for what comes next would take over.
    If he is losing his hold on Republicans, 25ing him becomes more realistic. Not holding my breath though.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 32,591
    Unusual to have both tomorrow's by elections as Reform defences. One in Leicestershire and one in Northumberland. Cramlington to be exact.
  • Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,398
    edited April 15
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Battlebus said:

    Well at least someone likes him.


    I wonder what Trump replies to these wise words of Jesus?

    Errr, I think you will find it is Jesus who is listening to the Gospel according to Trump.
    Not according to his Papal representative on earth.

    Vance was notably less critical of the Pope, saying he was entitled to give his views on the issues of the day but should not get too involved in politics. As he knows Roman Catholics are key swing voters in the US, voting for Obama in 2012, Trump in 2016 and Biden in 2020 and Trump again in 2024. As well as being Roman Catholic himself he also needs their votes in 2028
    Vance is Trump's PayPal representative on earth.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,815
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I was in the square outside St Peters when he gave his Easter address in about 1983. He gave his sermon in 7 or 8 different languages. I don't think I have ever seen someone with such charisma. It was spell binding even when you didn't have a clue what he was saying.
    I’m genuinely jealous. Of all the famous people who have lived at ‘the same time’ as me, Pope John Paul 2 is the one I regret never meeting, if that makes any sense. ‘Greatness’ in humans is a contentious idea, but I think he proves it exists. It is a perhaps a marriage of profound intelligence with moral bravery, or something like that. You also need a bit of luck, ‘some have greatness thrust upon them’ etc
    He was one of the triumvirate credited with taking down the Soviet Union. The other two being Reagan and Thatcher. Maybe a bit simplistic - no doubt the empire would have fallen anyway - but those three undoubtedly did a lot to undermine the USSR's authority and provide hope and reassurance to those within the bloc who were working to secure its demise.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,656
    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,520

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    I think so. I think the push back against the Trump Jesus image is another such sign. I don't think we'd have had the same reaction a year ago.

    I don't know whether it's because his deteriorating condition makes it obvious his time is limited. Or maybe it's anger at going so clearly against his America First platform with the Iran War and its impact on inflation that has done it. But I am cautiously optimistic that the ~11 year long hold Trump has had on the American Psyche may be finally breaking.

    If this is so, and it becomes obvious to more people that we're entering the Trump endgame, the era of lame duck Trump, then things could change very quickly. The jostling for what comes next would take over.
    When history is written, I wonder if the turning point will be

    - launched a doomed attack against Iran

    - launched a doomed attack against The Pope

    A jumped up wannabe mafiosi from New York toppled by a guy from Chicago is almost too good...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,520
    Leon said:

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    You should read this site from last year

    Some twat was wittering on about how amazing Trump was...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,198
    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    Really?
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,726

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    I think so. I think the push back against the Trump Jesus image is another such sign. I don't think we'd have had the same reaction a year ago.

    I don't know whether it's because his deteriorating condition makes it obvious his time is limited. Or maybe it's anger at going so clearly against his America First platform with the Iran War and its impact on inflation that has done it. But I am cautiously optimistic that the ~11 year long hold Trump has had on the American Psyche may be finally breaking.

    If this is so, and it becomes obvious to more people that we're entering the Trump endgame, the era of lame duck Trump, then things could change very quickly. The jostling for what comes next would take over.
    When history is written, I wonder if the turning point will be

    - launched a doomed attack against Iran

    - launched a doomed attack against The Pope

    A jumped up wannabe mafiosi from New York toppled by a guy from Chicago is almost too good...
    I think people are slowly coming to the realisation that, even though it will take time, Trump WILL eventually personally insult every single human being on the planet. By name.
    Trump is Wowbagger? Big, if true...
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    He might not have much choice if rumours are correct and Trump is in swift cognitive decline. They won’t be able to hide it, Trump’s dementia (if he has it, and I think he does) is not the docile manageable senility of Biden. He tweets out his gibberish on social media

    Incidentally, at the Dark Hedges today I heard some American accents (it gets lots of tourists coz of Game of Thrones). For the first time in my life I felt a reflexive animosity, just because America. That has never happened to me before, I am instinctively pro American. Yes they can be irritating but basically I have - or I had - innate goodwill towards our cousins and offspring. It is dwindling and this is sad

    They need to stop electing mad presidents and they need to stop exporting insane ideas like Woke
    It would help if many of our younger people realised that it's a completely different country. According to the New Statesman discussion I posted earlier many young British women are terrified of Trump. They're scared about the whole trad wife phenomenon. As with BLM after the murder in Minnesota they seem immersed in an English language online culture with little sense of which side of the Atlantic they actually live on.
    I agree and I detest it. I blame in part the media, especially the BBC. They are obsessed with the USA. They breathlessly report American news as if it is British and thus import lots of wankiness

    It’s juvenile and embarrassing, it’s like they all watched West Wing and can’t get over it. Get over it
    I get it because of the dominance of American culture, I'm guilty of focusing on it too much too, but the news reports of some pretty niche political or culture events in the USA can be extremely weird and grating.

    I'm not about to say 'how dare we not hear more about what's going on in Parisian politics?' or something, but minor american celebrities and politicians should not really be newsworthy to us.
    It warps our perspective badly. China is just as important as America - in some areas like trade and industry it is much more important. How often do we get lead news reports from the BBC about stuff happening in China? Almost never. They treat it like it is an exotic foreign place of middling importance, not much more salient than Thailand. It’s absurd

    The recent purge by Xi should have been massive news. But it required work and brains to transmit and explain it to the average Brit. Easier to do Hollywood celeb tattle or some gruesome American court case
    In unrelated Chinese empire news my travelling son, who’s been riding and eating horses near Almaty for the last week or so, announced today that he and his friend are hopping across the border on a flight to Urumqi to spend 10 days in Xinjiang among the Uighurs.

    But so long as he doesn’t act too much like a spy or BBC journalist he’ll be fine. What was more concerning was his announcement that he’s considering, after some touring around other parts of Central Asia, “popping over to Afghanistan for a few days”.

    Several stern WhatsApps quoting FCDO guidance and travel insurance terms and conditions seem to have dulled the enthusiasm, for now.
  • Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I was in the square outside St Peters when he gave his Easter address in about 1983. He gave his sermon in 7 or 8 different languages. I don't think I have ever seen someone with such charisma. It was spell binding even when you didn't have a clue what he was saying.
    I’m genuinely jealous. Of all the famous people who have lived at ‘the same time’ as me, Pope John Paul 2 is the one I regret never meeting, if that makes any sense. ‘Greatness’ in humans is a contentious idea, but I think he proves it exists. It is a perhaps a marriage of profound intelligence with moral bravery, or something like that. You also need a bit of luck, ‘some have greatness thrust upon them’ etc
    He was one of the triumvirate credited with taking down the Soviet Union. The other two being Reagan and Thatcher. Maybe a bit simplistic - no doubt the empire would have fallen anyway - but those three undoubtedly did a lot to undermine the USSR's authority and provide hope and reassurance to those within the bloc who were working to secure its demise.
    I don’t think it’s simplistic at all. JP2 was the moral leader of Polish anti-communism, impeccably brave and remarkably clever, too impressive to be dismissed (so they tried to assassinate him). They failed and he carried on, and in the end Poland’s resistance inspired every other resistance movement, and the Soviet bloc crumbled

    Without him it might not have happened for another 20 years, who knows
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Garry Kasparov.
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    Always an angle!!

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,198
    No idea of the truth in Epsom, but it seems the police are making the same mistakes again with regarding withholding info. There is a huge information black hole which the usual suspects are gleefully filling.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,019
    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelenskyy

    Carney

    Pedro Sánchez



  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Garry Kasparov.
    Speaking at our conference in Copenhagen in June! I’m looking forward to meeting him.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,848

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelenskyy

    Carney

    Pedro Sánchez



    Prof Curtice.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 14,287

    Leon said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    He might not have much choice if rumours are correct and Trump is in swift cognitive decline. They won’t be able to hide it, Trump’s dementia (if he has it, and I think he does) is not the docile manageable senility of Biden. He tweets out his gibberish on social media

    Incidentally, at the Dark Hedges today I heard some American accents (it gets lots of tourists coz of Game of Thrones). For the first time in my life I felt a reflexive animosity, just because America. That has never happened to me before, I am instinctively pro American. Yes they can be irritating but basically I have - or I had - innate goodwill towards our cousins and offspring. It is dwindling and this is sad

    They need to stop electing mad presidents and they need to stop exporting insane ideas like Woke
    It would help if many of our younger people realised that it's a completely different country. According to the New Statesman discussion I posted earlier many young British women are terrified of Trump. They're scared about the whole trad wife phenomenon. As with BLM after the murder in Minnesota they seem immersed in an English language online culture with little sense of which side of the Atlantic they actually live on.
    The party currently set for a majority in the UK parliament is led by a man who spends an awful lot of time in the MAGAsphere. I don't think it's that irrational.

    Ultimately it's just another symptom of mainstream parties not really offering anything to people under 50. Perhaps a bit more stark than usual, but at some point it might be worth considering why young(er) people think like this rather than disparaging them. The Greens now have a clear lead in the under 50s - it's not just women aged 16-24.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,198

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    I think so. I think the push back against the Trump Jesus image is another such sign. I don't think we'd have had the same reaction a year ago.

    I don't know whether it's because his deteriorating condition makes it obvious his time is limited. Or maybe it's anger at going so clearly against his America First platform with the Iran War and its impact on inflation that has done it. But I am cautiously optimistic that the ~11 year long hold Trump has had on the American Psyche may be finally breaking.

    If this is so, and it becomes obvious to more people that we're entering the Trump endgame, the era of lame duck Trump, then things could change very quickly. The jostling for what comes next would take over.
    When history is written, I wonder if the turning point will be

    - launched a doomed attack against Iran

    - launched a doomed attack against The Pope

    A jumped up wannabe mafiosi from New York toppled by a guy from Chicago is almost too good...
    I think people are slowly coming to the realisation that, even though it will take time, Trump WILL eventually personally insult every single human being on the planet. By name.
    It’s good to have a reason to get up in the morning…
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,815

    The JLP MRP for Holyrood in the Telegraph has the Scottish Greens standing in every constituency, so factor that into any expectations you have for its accuracy

    Do these people actually get paid for producing such rubbish, and being so ignorant about their job? Extraordinary, really.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,225
    Gaussian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    I think so. I think the push back against the Trump Jesus image is another such sign. I don't think we'd have had the same reaction a year ago.

    I don't know whether it's because his deteriorating condition makes it obvious his time is limited. Or maybe it's anger at going so clearly against his America First platform with the Iran War and its impact on inflation that has done it. But I am cautiously optimistic that the ~11 year long hold Trump has had on the American Psyche may be finally breaking.

    If this is so, and it becomes obvious to more people that we're entering the Trump endgame, the era of lame duck Trump, then things could change very quickly. The jostling for what comes next would take over.
    If he is losing his hold on Republicans, 25ing him becomes more realistic. Not holding my breath though.
    Perhaps, but the situation quickly devolves into a game of court politics. Some people would prefer to keep Trump in place as a figurehead and run things from the background. Others may just want to block Vance from becoming President so that they have a clearer run for the nomination in 2028.

    A weak and feeble President - if that's what Trump is becoming - would allow Congress to reassert itself. The Republicans might like that while they control Congress, and then if the midterms go badly for them they may feel a more urgent need to shuffle Trump out of the way.

    The change would be that Trump stops being the most important factor, so whether he's impeached or otherwise forced out becomes less pressing.

    Maybe this still has a way to run yet. Or maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there. We'll see.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,398
    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    You don't belittle MBS.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiGHUGLVLJk
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelenskyy

    Carney

    Pedro Sánchez



    Sanchez? Are you serious?
  • isamisam Posts: 44,230
    edited April 15
    DavidL said:

    Arsenal are just not the same team without Saka. He gives them so much additional flair and penetration. They need him back.

    ....and Odegaard, who seems to get a load of stick, but is the oil that lubricates the cogs of the team. Timber,

    Tonight's display was appalling. I can't imagine there has been a worse team that has such a good chance of winning one or both of the big two competitions in the same season.

    It also prevented me from watching one of the all time great European matches by the sound of it
  • Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 59,879

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    I think so. I think the push back against the Trump Jesus image is another such sign. I don't think we'd have had the same reaction a year ago.

    I don't know whether it's because his deteriorating condition makes it obvious his time is limited. Or maybe it's anger at going so clearly against his America First platform with the Iran War and its impact on inflation that has done it. But I am cautiously optimistic that the ~11 year long hold Trump has had on the American Psyche may be finally breaking.

    If this is so, and it becomes obvious to more people that we're entering the Trump endgame, the era of lame duck Trump, then things could change very quickly. The jostling for what comes next would take over.
    When history is written, I wonder if the turning point will be

    - launched a doomed attack against Iran

    - launched a doomed attack against The Pope

    A jumped up wannabe mafiosi from New York toppled by a guy from Chicago is almost too good...
    I think people are slowly coming to the realisation that, even though it will take time, Trump WILL eventually personally insult every single human being on the planet. By name.
    A new variant of Andy Warhol’s dictum: "In the future, everyone will be abused by Donald Trump for 15 minutes."
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Garry Kasparov.
    I think that's a really good call. His Substack is excellent. And he has been a principled opponent to both Communism and Putinism.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491
    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Gary Neville?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,398
    Gaussian said:

    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I was in the square outside St Peters when he gave his Easter address in about 1983. He gave his sermon in 7 or 8 different languages. I don't think I have ever seen someone with such charisma. It was spell binding even when you didn't have a clue what he was saying.
    Apparently quite a good goalkeeper too

    https://aleteia.org/2018/06/16/how-st-john-paul-ii-became-known-as-lolek-the-goalie/
    Shame he never played for Craggy Island's all-priests over-75s indoor football team.
    Imagine Father Ted having the opportunity to kick the Pope's arse!
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 916

    Gaussian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    I think so. I think the push back against the Trump Jesus image is another such sign. I don't think we'd have had the same reaction a year ago.

    I don't know whether it's because his deteriorating condition makes it obvious his time is limited. Or maybe it's anger at going so clearly against his America First platform with the Iran War and its impact on inflation that has done it. But I am cautiously optimistic that the ~11 year long hold Trump has had on the American Psyche may be finally breaking.

    If this is so, and it becomes obvious to more people that we're entering the Trump endgame, the era of lame duck Trump, then things could change very quickly. The jostling for what comes next would take over.
    If he is losing his hold on Republicans, 25ing him becomes more realistic. Not holding my breath though.
    Perhaps, but the situation quickly devolves into a game of court politics. Some people would prefer to keep Trump in place as a figurehead and run things from the background. Others may just want to block Vance from becoming President so that they have a clearer run for the nomination in 2028.

    A weak and feeble President - if that's what Trump is becoming - would allow Congress to reassert itself. The Republicans might like that while they control Congress, and then if the midterms go badly for them they may feel a more urgent need to shuffle Trump out of the way.

    The change would be that Trump stops being the most important factor, so whether he's impeached or otherwise forced out becomes less pressing.

    Maybe this still has a way to run yet. Or maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there. We'll see.
    He isn't going to get any more trustworthy with the nuclear button ...
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,983
    edited April 15

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Interesting thought from Bsky

    Was LIV golf a cheap way for the Saudi's to bribe Trump (they played on his courses) and is the decision to pull the funding a recognition that he is past his prime..?

    I think so. I think the push back against the Trump Jesus image is another such sign. I don't think we'd have had the same reaction a year ago.

    I don't know whether it's because his deteriorating condition makes it obvious his time is limited. Or maybe it's anger at going so clearly against his America First platform with the Iran War and its impact on inflation that has done it. But I am cautiously optimistic that the ~11 year long hold Trump has had on the American Psyche may be finally breaking.

    If this is so, and it becomes obvious to more people that we're entering the Trump endgame, the era of lame duck Trump, then things could change very quickly. The jostling for what comes next would take over.
    When history is written, I wonder if the turning point will be

    - launched a doomed attack against Iran

    - launched a doomed attack against The Pope

    A jumped up wannabe mafiosi from New York toppled by a guy from Chicago is almost too good...
    I think people are slowly coming to the realisation that, even though it will take time, Trump WILL eventually personally insult every single human being on the planet. By name.
    Douglas Adams strikes again.

    Lets hope Trump really isn't infinitely prolonged.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelensky is a contemporary leader who has risen to meet the challenge of recent events, and I think will be seen as a major historical figure. You could argue that he has saved Europe from Russian imperialism.

    Also, while he's a complete dickhead in many respects, I think Elon Musk's impact on the future via the medium of reducing the cost of rocket launches is going to be seen as monumental in retrospect.
    He also kickstarted electric vehicles, and is absolutely right about the impact of solar on world energy.

    What a shame he discovered Twitter.
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Garry Kasparov.
    I think that's a really good call. His Substack is excellent. And he has been a principled opponent to both Communism and Putinism.
    He’s a fucking chess player. I admire his bravery and he makes good points, but he’s a fucking chess player. It’s like saying Clare Balding is like Joan of Arc
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,848
    I was going to say the Artemis astronauts, then realised I know none of their names.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 64,491
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Garry Kasparov.
    I think that's a really good call. His Substack is excellent. And he has been a principled opponent to both Communism and Putinism.
    He’s a fucking chess player. I admire his bravery and he makes good points, but he’s a fucking chess player. It’s like saying Clare Balding is like Joan of Arc
    I can see that. She has a certain sexless something about her.

    Nice call.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 2,130

    The strange thing is Trump seems the least Christian president the US has had. Does he even claim to go to church?

    I'm pretty sure he's an atheist (he wouldn't be the first US President to be, though none have ever expressely stated there is suspicion that Jefferson and Lincoln may have been 'secret' atheists). Although that probably isn't even right. I'm sure someone on here stated Trump couldn't even be that (an atheist) as he believed he was God.

    So yeah. Not religious, nor an atheist. He believes he's a Deity. The one and only Deity.
  • Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelensky is a contemporary leader who has risen to meet the challenge of recent events, and I think will be seen as a major historical figure. You could argue that he has saved Europe from Russian imperialism.

    Also, while he's a complete dickhead in many respects, I think Elon Musk's impact on the future via the medium of reducing the cost of rocket launches is going to be seen as monumental in retrospect.
    Actually yes - to be serious - you’re right. Musk. Of course. Elon musk. Possibly one of the most important humans in history, and incredibly impressive despite his flaws

    And, yes, Zelensky. His only problem is that he’s unlikely to win his war which is cruel

    Nonetheless we have at least two contenders, which is more than the zero I imagined
  • Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,019

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelenskyy

    Carney

    Pedro Sánchez



    Sanchez? Are you serious?
    Not totally - I added him in partly to wind Leon up.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,789
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    You don't think he helped revive the waistcoat and thus the 3 piece suit?
  • MelonB said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    He might not have much choice if rumours are correct and Trump is in swift cognitive decline. They won’t be able to hide it, Trump’s dementia (if he has it, and I think he does) is not the docile manageable senility of Biden. He tweets out his gibberish on social media

    Incidentally, at the Dark Hedges today I heard some American accents (it gets lots of tourists coz of Game of Thrones). For the first time in my life I felt a reflexive animosity, just because America. That has never happened to me before, I am instinctively pro American. Yes they can be irritating but basically I have - or I had - innate goodwill towards our cousins and offspring. It is dwindling and this is sad

    They need to stop electing mad presidents and they need to stop exporting insane ideas like Woke
    It would help if many of our younger people realised that it's a completely different country. According to the New Statesman discussion I posted earlier many young British women are terrified of Trump. They're scared about the whole trad wife phenomenon. As with BLM after the murder in Minnesota they seem immersed in an English language online culture with little sense of which side of the Atlantic they actually live on.
    I agree and I detest it. I blame in part the media, especially the BBC. They are obsessed with the USA. They breathlessly report American news as if it is British and thus import lots of wankiness

    It’s juvenile and embarrassing, it’s like they all watched West Wing and can’t get over it. Get over it
    I get it because of the dominance of American culture, I'm guilty of focusing on it too much too, but the news reports of some pretty niche political or culture events in the USA can be extremely weird and grating.

    I'm not about to say 'how dare we not hear more about what's going on in Parisian politics?' or something, but minor american celebrities and politicians should not really be newsworthy to us.
    It warps our perspective badly. China is just as important as America - in some areas like trade and industry it is much more important. How often do we get lead news reports from the BBC about stuff happening in China? Almost never. They treat it like it is an exotic foreign place of middling importance, not much more salient than Thailand. It’s absurd

    The recent purge by Xi should have been massive news. But it required work and brains to transmit and explain it to the average Brit. Easier to do Hollywood celeb tattle or some gruesome American court case
    In unrelated Chinese empire news my travelling son, who’s been riding and eating horses near Almaty for the last week or so, announced today that he and his friend are hopping across the border on a flight to Urumqi to spend 10 days in Xinjiang among the Uighurs.

    But so long as he doesn’t act too much like a spy or BBC journalist he’ll be fine. What was more concerning was his announcement that he’s considering, after some touring around other parts of Central Asia, “popping over to Afghanistan for a few days”.

    Several stern WhatsApps quoting FCDO guidance and travel insurance terms and conditions seem to have dulled the enthusiasm, for now.
    I have a friend who regularly goes into Afghanistan by land, taking that route, and he says it is totally safe. The taliban are hideous bigots but they have imposed order and security (however my friend is ex SAS and does security for a living so he may have different standards to most)

    You should tell your son to go for it. But I’m not taking any blame if he gets a hand amputated or something
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 37,019

    I was going to say the Artemis astronauts, then realised I know none of their names.

    Plus, in all seriousness their exploit was a bit meh compared to Borman, Lovell and Anders on Apollo 8.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Tres said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Greta Thunberg?
    lol. Noice

    But seriously, if not Southgate who else matches Mandela? And John Paul the Second? Some might say Steve Borthwick but I fiercely disagree. Likewise I don’t think you can honestly compare Churchill to Claudia Winkleman, they’re just not in the same league, whatever people say

    You've changed your mind on Southgate?

    As a non-Englishman I do seem him as a respectable symbol for losing with grace and dignity.
    Get a grip. It was a joke. Southgate is a twat
    You don't think he helped revive the waistcoat and thus the 3 piece suit?
    A lot of people called me Gareth around that time thanks to the waistcoats. Important work from him in these increasingly casual times.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,198

    I was going to say the Artemis astronauts, then realised I know none of their names.

    Plus, in all seriousness their exploit was a bit meh compared to Borman, Lovell and Anders on Apollo 8.
    We own a 1973 mini. It staggers me to think we landed on the moon and brought the astronauts home with a craft built before the mini. The mini is terrible.

    How on earth did they do it?

    The current mission - all seemed a bit like an extension of the ISS.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,815
    Talking about popes, here's a short video clip of Pope Leo XIII (born 1810!). Apparently the oldest-born person to be recorded on film.

    Disraeli was prime minister when he became pontiff.

    https://x.com/CatholicArena/status/2044165696536396015
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,225
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelensky is a contemporary leader who has risen to meet the challenge of recent events, and I think will be seen as a major historical figure. You could argue that he has saved Europe from Russian imperialism.

    Also, while he's a complete dickhead in many respects, I think Elon Musk's impact on the future via the medium of reducing the cost of rocket launches is going to be seen as monumental in retrospect.
    He also kickstarted electric vehicles, and is absolutely right about the impact of solar on world energy.

    What a shame he discovered Twitter.
    The thing about electric cars is that Tesla is going to end up as a footnote and, when everything is electric it's not going to seem that revolutionary that cars became electric. Of course they did.

    But the work that Spacex is doing will, I think, truly stand the test of time and only become more important and consequential.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,464
    Foxy said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ‪Losing a war to Iran AND The Pope

    @christopherjhale.bsky.social‬

    BREAKING: The U.S. bishops’ Committee on Doctrine just issued a formal statement defending Pope Leo XIV's teaching authority on just war doctrine — less than twelve hours after JD Vance told a Turning Point USA crowd the pope should “be careful” talking theology.

    https://bsky.app/profile/christopherjhale.bsky.social/post/3mjkezzu7dc2w

    Catholic watchers will know that if they had issued a statement NOT defending the pope it would have had a greater significance than the fall of the Berlin wall and would be accompanied by flying pigs.

    I really don't appreciate Pope Woke's Justin Welby tribute act.

    Frankly, he is probably correct in everything he's saying, but I have a profound suspicion it's all so he can be congratulated by George and Amal Clooney.

    Pope Francis was a genuinely holy man who sometimes said hard and unfashionable things to hear and didn't jump on every hobby horse. This is a significant downgrade.
    He's an American, they're not known for being reticent to speak up.
    Yes. Just a superficial participant in the partisan politics of the US. Not Pope material. All very cringey really.
    If you think the Pope is too Woke, wait until you meet his boss!
    Jesus was certainly Pope Francis's boss - I am not sure who Pope Leo's line manager is.
    Best if you try to ignore the Sermon on the Mount.

    (Oh... I see you did already.)
    I think I'm the least pro-war PBer. I was never a supporter of this one either. I just don't warm to the current tenant of the Vatican.
    Which was the last one you warmed to?
    John Paul 2 was one of the greatest men in history. The deeper you go into his life story the more impressive he gets

    Here’s one paragraph from his wiki entry


    In mid-1938, Wojtyła and his father left Wadowice and moved to Kraków, where he enrolled at the Jagiellonian University. While studying such topics as philology and various languages, he worked as a volunteer librarian and though required to participate in compulsory military training in the Academic Legion, he refused to fire a weapon. He performed with various theatrical groups and worked as a playwright.[29] During this time, his talent for language blossomed, and he learned as many as 15 languages – Polish, Latin, Italian, English, Spanish, Portuguese, French, German, Luxembourgish, Dutch, Ukrainian, Serbo-Croatian, Czech, Slovak, and Esperanto,[30] nine of which he used extensively as pope.
    I was in the square outside St Peters when he gave his Easter address in about 1983. He gave his sermon in 7 or 8 different languages. I don't think I have ever seen someone with such charisma. It was spell binding even when you didn't have a clue what he was saying.
    Apparently quite a good goalkeeper too

    https://aleteia.org/2018/06/16/how-st-john-paul-ii-became-known-as-lolek-the-goalie/
    The present pope played quarterback in college football*.

    Very adept at the Hail Mary pass.





    *I made that up.
  • Leon_VotedForStarmerLeon_VotedForStarmer Posts: 69,000
    edited April 15

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelensky is a contemporary leader who has risen to meet the challenge of recent events, and I think will be seen as a major historical figure. You could argue that he has saved Europe from Russian imperialism.

    Also, while he's a complete dickhead in many respects, I think Elon Musk's impact on the future via the medium of reducing the cost of rocket launches is going to be seen as monumental in retrospect.
    He also kickstarted electric vehicles, and is absolutely right about the impact of solar on world energy.

    What a shame he discovered Twitter.
    The thing about electric cars is that Tesla is going to end up as a footnote and, when everything is electric it's not going to seem that revolutionary that cars became electric. Of course they did.

    But the work that Spacex is doing will, I think, truly stand the test of time and only become more important and consequential.
    And Starlink

    And X, even tho most people here will fiercely disagree. I reckon he bought freedom of speech and preserved it. Remember twitter of old would censor you or cancel you for even mentioning the ‘lab leak theory’. Shameful times
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,446

    I was going to say the Artemis astronauts, then realised I know none of their names.

    Plus, in all seriousness their exploit was a bit meh compared to Borman, Lovell and Anders on Apollo 8.
    We own a 1973 mini. It staggers me to think we landed on the moon and brought the astronauts home with a craft built before the mini. The mini is terrible.

    How on earth did they do it?

    The current mission - all seemed a bit like an extension of the ISS.
    I read somewhere that the best answer to conspiracy theorists who reckon the Apollo space-shots were all a hoax is that technology wasn't sufficiently advanced then to permit such a hoax being perpetuated.
  • I was going to say the Artemis astronauts, then realised I know none of their names.

    Plus, in all seriousness their exploit was a bit meh compared to Borman, Lovell and Anders on Apollo 8.
    We own a 1973 mini. It staggers me to think we landed on the moon and brought the astronauts home with a craft built before the mini. The mini is terrible.

    How on earth did they do it?

    The current mission - all seemed a bit like an extension of the ISS.
    In the brilliant netfix documentary on Apollo 13 you can see engineers at Mission Control furiously working out stuff with… slide rules

    It’s like one step away from the abacus. Incredible
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,564
    edited April 15
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Gary Neville?
    Football is trivial, and Gary Neville's understanding of government is considerably less than he imagines. And while obviously I don't know him personally and would love to be wrong about this, he comes across, even by the standards of professional footballers, as a massive bellend and an utter pain in the arse. But he's changed the face of Manchester in a good way. GNev has a better shout at low-level greatness than most of his contemporaries in football.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 1,065
    edited April 15
    MelonB said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    On topic, it would make no sense for Vance to try to invoke the 25th before 20 January 2027. If he were successful and took over before 20 January 2027 he would be ineligible to serve more than one full term. Serve less than two years of this term and he could win two full terms.

    Now, all of that may well be moot of course if GOP numbers continue to tank but I suspect in Vance's mind he would be expect to be popular and able to win future POTUS elections.

    He might not have much choice if rumours are correct and Trump is in swift cognitive decline. They won’t be able to hide it, Trump’s dementia (if he has it, and I think he does) is not the docile manageable senility of Biden. He tweets out his gibberish on social media

    Incidentally, at the Dark Hedges today I heard some American accents (it gets lots of tourists coz of Game of Thrones). For the first time in my life I felt a reflexive animosity, just because America. That has never happened to me before, I am instinctively pro American. Yes they can be irritating but basically I have - or I had - innate goodwill towards our cousins and offspring. It is dwindling and this is sad

    They need to stop electing mad presidents and they need to stop exporting insane ideas like Woke
    It would help if many of our younger people realised that it's a completely different country. According to the New Statesman discussion I posted earlier many young British women are terrified of Trump. They're scared about the whole trad wife phenomenon. As with BLM after the murder in Minnesota they seem immersed in an English language online culture with little sense of which side of the Atlantic they actually live on.
    I agree and I detest it. I blame in part the media, especially the BBC. They are obsessed with the USA. They breathlessly report American news as if it is British and thus import lots of wankiness

    It’s juvenile and embarrassing, it’s like they all watched West Wing and can’t get over it. Get over it
    I get it because of the dominance of American culture, I'm guilty of focusing on it too much too, but the news reports of some pretty niche political or culture events in the USA can be extremely weird and grating.

    I'm not about to say 'how dare we not hear more about what's going on in Parisian politics?' or something, but minor american celebrities and politicians should not really be newsworthy to us.
    It warps our perspective badly. China is just as important as America - in some areas like trade and industry it is much more important. How often do we get lead news reports from the BBC about stuff happening in China? Almost never. They treat it like it is an exotic foreign place of middling importance, not much more salient than Thailand. It’s absurd

    The recent purge by Xi should have been massive news. But it required work and brains to transmit and explain it to the average Brit. Easier to do Hollywood celeb tattle or some gruesome American court case
    In unrelated Chinese empire news my travelling son, who’s been riding and eating horses near Almaty for the last week or so, announced today that he and his friend are hopping across the border on a flight to Urumqi to spend 10 days in Xinjiang among the Uighurs.

    But so long as he doesn’t act too much like a spy or BBC journalist he’ll be fine. What was more concerning was his announcement that he’s considering, after some touring around other parts of Central Asia, “popping over to Afghanistan for a few days”.

    Several stern WhatsApps quoting FCDO guidance and travel insurance terms and conditions seem to have dulled the enthusiasm, for now.
    He'll be fine and it'll get him laid at uni. You should let him go.

    If he's anything like me at his age he'll go anyway and you'll find out in a couple of decades.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 24,225

    I was going to say the Artemis astronauts, then realised I know none of their names.

    Plus, in all seriousness their exploit was a bit meh compared to Borman, Lovell and Anders on Apollo 8.
    We own a 1973 mini. It staggers me to think we landed on the moon and brought the astronauts home with a craft built before the mini. The mini is terrible.

    How on earth did they do it?

    The current mission - all seemed a bit like an extension of the ISS.
    Really?

    They travelled further away from Earth than anyone has ever been before, about 250,000 miles. The ISS orbits at a height of less than 300 miles. Did you not see how small the Earth looked from their view as they went behind the Moon?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,513
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelensky is a contemporary leader who has risen to meet the challenge of recent events, and I think will be seen as a major historical figure. You could argue that he has saved Europe from Russian imperialism.

    Also, while he's a complete dickhead in many respects, I think Elon Musk's impact on the future via the medium of reducing the cost of rocket launches is going to be seen as monumental in retrospect.
    He also kickstarted electric vehicles, and is absolutely right about the impact of solar on world energy.

    What a shame he discovered Twitter.
    The thing about electric cars is that Tesla is going to end up as a footnote and, when everything is electric it's not going to seem that revolutionary that cars became electric. Of course they did.

    But the work that Spacex is doing will, I think, truly stand the test of time and only become more important and consequential.
    And Starlink

    And X, even tho most people here will fiercely disagree. I reckon he bought freedom of speech and preserved it. Remember twitter of old would censor you or cancel you for even mentioning the ‘lab leak theory’. Shameful times
    We're regularly told that such things only happen under the likes of Trump and Orban.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,520
    @nicholasgrossman.bsky.social‬

    Remarkable that Ukraine isn’t hiding that the US is not their friend. Zelensky kept up the pretense for a while, acting like Trump sought peace despite seeing the pro-Russia shift.

    The change suggests not only no faith in the US, but also that they don’t need to keep up the show for Europe anymore.

    https://bsky.app/profile/nicholasgrossman.bsky.social/post/3mjkn5myqys2e
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,398

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelenskyy

    Carney

    Pedro Sánchez



    Wot- no Starmer?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809
    Scott_xP said:

    @nicholasgrossman.bsky.social‬

    Remarkable that Ukraine isn’t hiding that the US is not their friend. Zelensky kept up the pretense for a while, acting like Trump sought peace despite seeing the pro-Russia shift.

    The change suggests not only no faith in the US, but also that they don’t need to keep up the show for Europe anymore.

    https://bsky.app/profile/nicholasgrossman.bsky.social/post/3mjkn5myqys2e

    I doubt it is as dramatic as that, but thanking the USA never helps under Trump, he doesn't remember it for the next time. And when Vance is so proud of what he's done to hurt Ukraine there's only so much playing nice would accomplish.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,564
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Gary Neville?
    Nigel Blackwell.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 103,809

    Leon said:

    Is there anyone in the world right now who has the greatness of John Paul 2 or Nelson Mandela? I can’t think of any. Nor can I think of any politicians as brave or impressive as Thatcher (yes yes) or De Gaulle or Gorbachev

    You could argue this is anti-recency bias, great people are only seen as great in the rear view mirror. You could argue that world events were more epochal back then - world war 2, the end of communism - these are massive changes which throw up major historical figures. But I don’t think either of these is true. We have enough dramatic shit going on right now. It’s the humans in charge that have got punier. The squalor of Trump, the dreariness of Starmer, the malignancy of Putin

    I cannot think of a single contemporary human leader in any field where you automatically think: respect

    Gareth Southgate?

    Zelenskyy

    Carney

    Pedro Sánchez



    Wot- no Starmer?
    The Starmer era of greatness has only just begun.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 36,353
    Leon said:

    Is there anything better than eating REALLY GOOD fish and chips (with proper marrow fat peas) while sitting on a bench in the sweet cool evening sun and staring at ferryboats?

    Yes – fish and chips without peas, as I have several times each week.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,198

    I was going to say the Artemis astronauts, then realised I know none of their names.

    Plus, in all seriousness their exploit was a bit meh compared to Borman, Lovell and Anders on Apollo 8.
    We own a 1973 mini. It staggers me to think we landed on the moon and brought the astronauts home with a craft built before the mini. The mini is terrible.

    How on earth did they do it?

    The current mission - all seemed a bit like an extension of the ISS.
    Really?

    They travelled further away from Earth than anyone has ever been before, about 250,000 miles. The ISS orbits at a height of less than 300 miles. Did you not see how small the Earth looked from their view as they went behind the Moon?
    Well yes, but for the people on the rocket they didn’t really seem to do anything.
This discussion has been closed.