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A SNP majority shouldn’t be ruled out – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,174
edited April 13 in General
A SNP majority shouldn’t be ruled out – politicalbetting.com

YouGov's first MRP of the 2026 Holyrood election shows the SNP are on course for a small majoritySNP: 67 (+3 from 2021)Ref: 20 (+20)Lab: 15 (-7)Grn: 11 (+3)LD: 9 (+5)Con: 7 (-24)yougov.com/en-gb/articl…

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  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,661
    edited April 13
    First?

    Is Badenoch thinking of burning down Scottish cathedrals?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,212
    Second like leave
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 6,306
    edited April 13
    FPT
    rottenborough said:

    noneoftheabove said:

    If the Iranians werent perturbed by being wiped off the map FOREVER last week, why do the US govt expect them to change course because they can't sell a bit of oil this week?

    You think there's any rational thought going into this?

    US is now totally driven by the hour by hour whims of one very old man.
    And Trump wonders why he is getting so few takers for everyone else's tactical priority of getting Hormuz open and the tankers moving, without a very large amount of errming.

    Truth is, considering what Iran might do makes it a difficult and dangerous mission with the distinct possibility of significant losses.

    What Israel might do in terms of bombing Iran or Lebanon has some influence on the extent of the Iranian risk.

    What America is doing in terms of threats, what it might be asked to do in terms of naval activity in the straights would be threatening to turn any already dangerous allied mission that were running alongside into a clusterfuck on stilts. Why on earth would you just jump in rather than plan (and we may end up having to be involved in this anyway!) with the US as such an utterly reckless and mercurial "ally"?

    How the hell do you plan around Trump?

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,661
    edited April 13
    FF43 said:

    First?

    Is Badenoch thinking of burning down Scottish cathedrals?

    For those interested in the historical allusion

    "Who was the Wolf of Badenoch and was he Scotland's most wicked man?"

    Like his namesake he was up for aggressive arguments with anybody and everybody.

    https://blog.historicenvironment.scot/2025/07/who-was-the-wolf-of-badenoch/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    Trump considers fresh strikes on Iran...

    Does he count the ceasefire as ending war #28, then starting war #29.....
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,524
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Trump considers fresh strikes on Iran...

    Does he count the ceasefire as ending war #28, then starting war #29.....

    Having completely failed to bomb Iran into submission, Trump's grand new plan, just revealed on Fox News, is to (checks notes) "bomb them into submission"
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 40,189
    edited April 13
    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,524
    @fintwitter.bsky.social‬

    HAPAG LLOYD SAYS IT'S HARD TO DETERMINE IF US PLANS REGARDING THE BLOCKADE OF HORMUZ WILL BE IMPLEMENTED.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 91,960
    edited April 13
    Most Australian children have evaded the government’s ban on social media for under-16s, a new survey has found

    Shocked I tell you, shocked....i am sure it is the same with teenagers looking at boobies here, although they arent likely to admit it. I seemed to remember reports from Australia the kids were also simply going to app not covered like ones for talking about cooking.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,930
    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    Mr. JS, it'd be good to get other countries' figures for context.

    And to compare also with how our perceptions of ourselves in other areas vary from reality.

    We might have less of an overblown self-evaluation if politicians ever acknowledge the deficit or our huge debt, instead of competing to spend ever more or cut taxes.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,930
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Most Australian children have evaded the government’s ban on social media for under-16s, a new survey has found

    Shocked I tell you, shocked....i am sure it is the same with teenagers looking at boobies here, although they arent likely to admit it.

    Saw some great tits the other day. Had thought they were coal tits, but then they turned and the trademark chest stripe gave it away.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 55,435
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Most Australian children have evaded the government’s ban on social media for under-16s, a new survey has found

    Shocked I tell you, shocked....i am sure it is the same with teenagers looking at boobies here, although they arent likely to admit it. I seemed to remember reports from Australia the kids were also simply going to app not covered like ones for talking about cooking.

    How many teenagers are likely to be browsing about the Reform UK website looking at their council candidates, though, really?
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    Scott_xP said:

    @fintwitter.bsky.social‬

    HAPAG LLOYD SAYS IT'S HARD TO DETERMINE IF US PLANS REGARDING THE BLOCKADE OF HORMUZ WILL BE IMPLEMENTED.

    It’s hard to determine what the plans are as I believe they live in the head of an old man with the attention span of a mite with a death wish
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,483
    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    We have got poorer over the past 15 years - but that’s only obvious if you travel abroad. But equally I notice the change around the UK, the difference between London / Manchester and elsewhere is obvious
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,447
    Why not an SNP majority? They've been in power for quite a few years and people seem to be satisfied with what they're delivering. Why risk a change?
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,546
    Living in Scotland, I find the lack of a realistic challenge to the SNP frustrating. As happens whenever a party is in power for a long time, many organisations are now very chummy with the ministers meaning there is little or no push back on poor performance. I am not surprised that the Murrell trial was pushed back to after the Holyrood elections. Obviously I haven't seen the evidence but I remain sceptical how the former first minister emerged squeaky clean from having an expensive camper van appear on her driveway. One day they will be gone but not soon.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 22,035
    Good news on the SMR front.

    https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2026/04/13/rolls-royce-signs-small-nuclear-plants-contract/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @fintwitter.bsky.social‬

    HAPAG LLOYD SAYS IT'S HARD TO DETERMINE IF US PLANS REGARDING THE BLOCKADE OF HORMUZ WILL BE IMPLEMENTED.

    It’s hard to determine what the plans are as I believe they live in the head of an old man with the attention span of a mite with a death wish
    #VibeWar
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,483
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    "The people have spoken... the bastards."
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    The public think that we are richer than we are. In the sense of the whole country.

    But that nearly infinite wealth has been hoarded by the Bankers, the Billionaires, the Immigrants, the Muslims, the Jews, the Lizard-Men-In-People-Suits.

    So all we need to do is tax the Lizard Men and we will all be rolling in money.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,749
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    "The people have spoken... the bastards."
    Things would be so much more coherent without them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    kinabalu said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    "The people have spoken... the bastards."
    Things would be so much more coherent without them.
    "Wäre es da
    Nicht doch einfacher, die Regierung
    Löste das Volk auf und
    Wählte ein anderes?"
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    edited April 13
    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    The public think that we are richer than we are. In the sense of the whole country.

    But that nearly infinite wealth has been hoarded by the Bankers, the Billionaires, the Immigrants, the Muslims, the Jews, the Lizard-Men-In-People-Suits.

    So all we need to do is tax the Lizard Men and we will all be rolling in money.
    I’m actually quite heartened by the results. One of the problems this and other recent governments have faced is a pervading lack of consumer and investor confidence. If the results came out showing everyone thinks we are third world (which you’d guess, reading social media) then that would be more worrying for economic growth.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,920
    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    We should definitely aspire to be like ‘richer’ America.



    https://x.com/danimayakovski/status/2043189346140852394?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,961
    Scott_xP said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Trump considers fresh strikes on Iran...

    Does he count the ceasefire as ending war #28, then starting war #29.....

    Having completely failed to bomb Iran into submission, Trump's grand new plan, just revealed on Fox News, is to (checks notes) "bomb them into submission"
    You can't win without boots on the ground unless you nuke them(unthinkable)
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,220
    Labour result is bad enough though it could be worse.

    For Her Majesty's Main Opposition Party though to go from 23% to 8% as the Conservative and Unionist Party is extermination level, no ifs no buts it's extermination.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,924
    This will all depend on a number of key constituencies at Holyrood. If Labour hold Dumbarton and Edinburgh South and gain East Lothian, all on the Yougov MRP forecast to go SNP, if the Conservatives hold their border seats, all but 1 projected to go SNP and if Reform gain Banffshire and Buchan coast from the SNP, the only area of Scotland that voted Leave in 2016, then the SNP would fall short of a majority.

    Regardless though Starmer has said he will refuse indyref2 and as the UK Supreme Court confirmed the Westminster Parliament has the final say on the Union. Indeed Swinney pushing for an independence referendum in 2028 could see some unionist tactical voting in the seats mentioned above to deny the SNP their forecast majority
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    MelonB said:

    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    The public think that we are richer than we are. In the sense of the whole country.

    But that nearly infinite wealth has been hoarded by the Bankers, the Billionaires, the Immigrants, the Muslims, the Jews, the Lizard-Men-In-People-Suits.

    So all we need to do is tax the Lizard Men and we will all be rolling in money.
    I’m actually quite heartened by the results. One of the problems this and other recent governments have faced is a pervading lack of consumer and investor confidence. If the results came out showing everyone thinks we are third world (which you’d guess, reading social media) then that would be more worrying for economic growth.
    Just wait till you hear the moaning about poor pubic services from the Lizard Men.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,440
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    You'd expect something like that from the likes of Lord Frost, wouldn't you!
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,220
    Gallowgate said:

    Good news on the SMR front.

    https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2026/04/13/rolls-royce-signs-small-nuclear-plants-contract/

    A major leap forwards and a massive thumbs up for Ed Miliband after 14 years of Tory inertia.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,924
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Most Australian children have evaded the government’s ban on social media for under-16s, a new survey has found

    Shocked I tell you, shocked....i am sure it is the same with teenagers looking at boobies here, although they arent likely to admit it. I seemed to remember reports from Australia the kids were also simply going to app not covered like ones for talking about cooking.

    They can't in schools though as their phones are confiscated and it is children under 10 who the policy should most protect
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,661
    It does feel like the SNP is the only show in town in Scotland. Which isn't good.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 50,749
    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    The public think that we are richer than we are. In the sense of the whole country.

    But that nearly infinite wealth has been hoarded by the Bankers, the Billionaires, the Immigrants, the Muslims, the Jews, the Lizard-Men-In-People-Suits.

    So all we need to do is tax the Lizard Men and we will all be rolling in money.
    Well I do keep stressing that the grossly unequal distribution of wealth is a big problem. Somebody will listen one day. But in the meantime lots more 'it's all about growing the pie' and 'a rising tide lifts all boats' wibbling to endure. I can take it. I'm strong.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,924
    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    This may be part of the explanation 'Over half of UK citizens take no flights at all in a given year, and the average number of overseas trips is one or two. Overwhelmingly most go to the European countries comparable to or even slightly poorer than the UK, such as Spain, France and Italy. Hardly anyone visits the wealthier places like Germany, and very few travel outside Europe – a hundred times as many Brits go to Spain every year as to Australia.'
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,440
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    This may be part of the explanation 'Over half of UK citizens take no flights at all in a given year, and the average number of overseas trips is one or two. Overwhelmingly most go to the European countries comparable to or even slightly poorer than the UK, such as Spain, France and Italy. Hardly anyone visits the wealthier places like Germany, and very few travel outside Europe – a hundred times as many Brits go to Spain every year as to Australia.'
    To be fair, Spain is a lot nearer.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,483
    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    Gallowgate said:

    Good news on the SMR front.

    https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2026/04/13/rolls-royce-signs-small-nuclear-plants-contract/

    You can take it to the bank they will be:

    1. Way late

    2. Way over budget

    3. Mired in initial technical issues that will further delay the promised power production.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    kinabalu said:

    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    The public think that we are richer than we are. In the sense of the whole country.

    But that nearly infinite wealth has been hoarded by the Bankers, the Billionaires, the Immigrants, the Muslims, the Jews, the Lizard-Men-In-People-Suits.

    So all we need to do is tax the Lizard Men and we will all be rolling in money.
    Well I do keep stressing that the grossly unequal distribution of wealth is a big problem. Somebody will listen one day. But in the meantime lots more 'it's all about growing the pie' and 'a rising tide lifts all boats' wibbling to endure. I can take it. I'm strong.
    Even if you confiscated all the money of UK billionaires, you couldn't fund the NHS for a year.

    The giant stores of money in the UK are pensions and houses. And the notional value of property is not realisable, on the scale that the believers in the "Lizard Men took all the money:" want.

    You can argue that some should pay more. But it won't create epic change.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 2,028
    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    Between the UK and US:

    - If you want a shot at becoming extraordinarily wealthy, the US is the country to be in.

    - If you want to reduce the chance of falling into poverty, drug addiction and early death, the UK is the country to be in.

    "The US is richer than the UK" in undoubtedly true on average, but much less so for the median citizen net of non-discretionary costs (i.e. include both tax and health insurance premiums). It's definitely not the case for lower income percentiles.

    There's plenty of other countries I'd choose before the US if I had to move.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,193
    Brixian59 said:

    Labour result is bad enough though it could be worse.

    For Her Majesty's Main Opposition Party though to go from 23% to 8% as the Conservative and Unionist Party is extermination level, no ifs no buts it's extermination.

    LOL

    Starmer and labour starring at a disaster and it's all about the tories

    Friday 8th May will be all about Starmer, labour and how they can replace at best a middle manager on a tourist visa

    You may howl on about Kemi but no matter May 7th, she will lead into GE 29 and why should the conservative party even listen to a lefty on a rant

  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,220
    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    My view has always been defined by "the hire car test"

    I always hire a car from airport on arrival for the duration of any holiday, unless it's a major city break

    Exploring where they would not normally guide you to is the real test of genuine relative wealth and poverty.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,483
    Ratters said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    Between the UK and US:

    - If you want a shot at becoming extraordinarily wealthy, the US is the country to be in.

    - If you want to reduce the chance of falling into poverty, drug addiction and early death, the UK is the country to be in.

    "The US is richer than the UK" in undoubtedly true on average, but much less so for the median citizen net of non-discretionary costs (i.e. include both tax and health insurance premiums). It's definitely not the case for lower income percentiles.

    There's plenty of other countries I'd choose before the US if I had to move.
    If you want a shot at being shot...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    It isn't a mystery.

    For generations, the government has prevented the construction of domestic properties. When the population started to rise, strongly, they didn't change this.

    This meant that investing in property became the simplest way to get the highest return.

    Now that this gravy train has stopped, it is quite funny to hear the complaints (from both Government and private sector) about the difficulty of getting growth.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 2,220
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    This may be part of the explanation 'Over half of UK citizens take no flights at all in a given year, and the average number of overseas trips is one or two. Overwhelmingly most go to the European countries comparable to or even slightly poorer than the UK, such as Spain, France and Italy. Hardly anyone visits the wealthier places like Germany, and very few travel outside Europe – a hundred times as many Brits go to Spain every year as to Australia.'
    The wealthiest countries by economic, culture, relative equality, the gap between haves and have not, and general happiness, have in my experience been in one specific area of Europe.

    Scandinavia.

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,193
    HYUFD said:

    This will all depend on a number of key constituencies at Holyrood. If Labour hold Dumbarton and Edinburgh South and gain East Lothian, all on the Yougov MRP forecast to go SNP, if the Conservatives hold their border seats, all but 1 projected to go SNP and if Reform gain Banffshire and Buchan coast from the SNP, the only area of Scotland that voted Leave in 2016, then the SNP would fall short of a majority.

    Regardless though Starmer has said he will refuse indyref2 and as the UK Supreme Court confirmed the Westminster Parliament has the final say on the Union. Indeed Swinney pushing for an independence referendum in 2028 could see some unionist tactical voting in the seats mentioned above to deny the SNP their forecast majority

    'Indeed Swinney pushing for an independence referendum in 2028 could see some unionist tactical voting in the seats mentioned above to deny the SNP their forecast majority'

    You really are grasping at straws
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,483
    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,961
    Brixian59 said:

    Labour result is bad enough though it could be worse.

    For Her Majesty's Main Opposition Party though to go from 23% to 8% as the Conservative and Unionist Party is extermination level, no ifs no buts it's extermination.

    Hyperbole is your middle name
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,920
    FF43 said:

    It does feel like the SNP is the only show in town in Scotland. Which isn't good.

    As I’ve mentioned before the Unionist sub branches in Scotland are permanently infantilised because much of government in Scotland is still decided by their own parties in Westminster so no real motive to make a decent offer themselves (on the dangerous assumption that they have talented, independent minded folk that could think up such an offer). Sarwar’s ‘break’ with Starmer was entirely a dunderheided tactic to try and endear himself with Scottish voters which has flopped. The fitful attempts to portray him as some kind of Caledonian Zohran are painful.

    Afraid we’re stuck in this limbo until something genuinely breaks. The duopoly of Cons and Lab being smashed might be it, but PM Farage is a heavy price to pay.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    Problem is the current replacement right wing party (Reform) is worse on every measure
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958
    squareroot2 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Labour result is bad enough though it could be worse.

    For Her Majesty's Main Opposition Party though to go from 23% to 8% as the Conservative and Unionist Party is extermination level, no ifs no buts it's extermination.

    Hyperbole is your middle name
    It is not just his middle name but his given name, surname and the names of all his children, grandchildren, friends and neighbours, literally!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,447
    FF43 said:

    It does feel like the SNP is the only show in town in Scotland. Which isn't good.

    Surely that's equivalent to saying democracy is the worst political system except for all the others.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
    Indeed. There's a lot there with how the DFT evaluate economic benefits of investment, but it is really difficult politics to change that.

    I'd start with sorting out our local travel networks for both walking and mobility (the term encompasses mobility aids and cycles and similar), especially around travel to schools and throughout localities. We have a couple of laboratories (mainly London / Manchester - but also possibly Glasgow), but the vast majority of the country is half a century behind.

    The returns are enormous, especially around health.

    We (England / Wales are about the only countries with an historic network of 140k miles of public Rights of Way waiting to be properly invested in, ands developed. Plus perhaps as much again which has never been designated. And we only need a fairly small proportion of them.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    edited April 13
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    Problem is the current replacement right wing party (Reform) is worse on every measure
    Correct. So we need something else. Although I'm not sure that calling Reform "Right" is a whole picture - they have bits of both left and right, and if you get beyond the "Stage for Nigel" aspect, it is more of a mix.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
    One problem is Big Projectism

    I'll have to dig it out, but there was a study done that suggested that small scale Lottery funded projects to improve local facilities had an enormously higher return, in terms of peoples attitude to their locality. As opposed to decades delayed Big Projects.

    So, of course, there is an ongoing push to move Lottery funding to larger and larger projects...

    Local initiatives, tailored to the locality and the actual people living there, work better. Who could have foreseen this?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 60,420
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    Problem is the current replacement right wing party (Reform) is worse on every measure
    Correct. So we need something else.
    We need the Tories to get their shit together.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986
    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What did the questions actually ask? The UK has a bigger GDP than Switzerland, so you could say the UK is richer than Switzerland, but Switzerland has a bigger GDP per capita, so the mean Swiss person is richer than the mean UK person.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Most Australian children have evaded the government’s ban on social media for under-16s, a new survey has found

    Shocked I tell you, shocked....i am sure it is the same with teenagers looking at boobies here, although they arent likely to admit it. I seemed to remember reports from Australia the kids were also simply going to app not covered like ones for talking about cooking.

    So, Australian children are learning some tech skills! A good result.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    The first actual election applicable video I have seen, about Tower Hamlets and how Mayor Lutfur Rahman (that one, who was barred for 5 years by Lord Pickles) is trying to rip out Low Traffic Neighbourhoods over the results of his Borough wide consultations.

    He has now appealed to the Supreme Court over a challenge he lost over him ignoring his consultation process and the evidence he has before him:

    By Evan Edinger,
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsuFzwUnT7I
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986
    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    The public think that we are richer than we are. In the sense of the whole country.

    But that nearly infinite wealth has been hoarded by the Bankers, the Billionaires, the Immigrants, the Muslims, the Jews, the Lizard-Men-In-People-Suits.

    So all we need to do is tax the Lizard Men and we will all be rolling in money.
    Well I do keep stressing that the grossly unequal distribution of wealth is a big problem. Somebody will listen one day. But in the meantime lots more 'it's all about growing the pie' and 'a rising tide lifts all boats' wibbling to endure. I can take it. I'm strong.
    Even if you confiscated all the money of UK billionaires, you couldn't fund the NHS for a year.

    The giant stores of money in the UK are pensions and houses. And the notional value of property is not realisable, on the scale that the believers in the "Lizard Men took all the money:" want.

    You can argue that some should pay more. But it won't create epic change.
    If you confiscated all of Elon Musk's money, you could pay for over four and a half years of the NHS, I believe.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,599
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Labour result is bad enough though it could be worse.

    For Her Majesty's Main Opposition Party though to go from 23% to 8% as the Conservative and Unionist Party is extermination level, no ifs no buts it's extermination.

    LOL

    Starmer and labour starring at a disaster and it's all about the tories

    Friday 8th May will be all about Starmer, labour and how they can replace at best a middle manager on a tourist visa

    You may howl on about Kemi but no matter May 7th, she will lead into GE 29 and why should the conservative party even listen to a lefty on a rant

    Tory MPs won’t care how badly Labour do.

    They will be looking at the second electoral cycle where the Tories have gone backwards and will think Badenoch will see us lose our seats in 2029.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,355
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Most Australian children have evaded the government’s ban on social media for under-16s, a new survey has found

    Shocked I tell you, shocked....i am sure it is the same with teenagers looking at boobies here, although they arent likely to admit it. I seemed to remember reports from Australia the kids were also simply going to app not covered like ones for talking about cooking.

    If they get 40% of kids off social media, and reduce the time spent for many others, that seems a pretty good outcome to me.

    Plus I think there is a problem of checking legacy child accounts which will go away as people age out of restrictions.

    Too early to say whether this ban has been effective or not.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    bondegezou said:

    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    The public think that we are richer than we are. In the sense of the whole country.

    But that nearly infinite wealth has been hoarded by the Bankers, the Billionaires, the Immigrants, the Muslims, the Jews, the Lizard-Men-In-People-Suits.

    So all we need to do is tax the Lizard Men and we will all be rolling in money.
    Well I do keep stressing that the grossly unequal distribution of wealth is a big problem. Somebody will listen one day. But in the meantime lots more 'it's all about growing the pie' and 'a rising tide lifts all boats' wibbling to endure. I can take it. I'm strong.
    Even if you confiscated all the money of UK billionaires, you couldn't fund the NHS for a year.

    The giant stores of money in the UK are pensions and houses. And the notional value of property is not realisable, on the scale that the believers in the "Lizard Men took all the money:" want.

    You can argue that some should pay more. But it won't create epic change.
    If you confiscated all of Elon Musk's money, you could pay for over four and a half years of the NHS, I believe.
    The slight problem there, is that Elon Musk isn't a tax payer in the UK. Or a citizen. Or a resident.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    rkrkrk said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Most Australian children have evaded the government’s ban on social media for under-16s, a new survey has found

    Shocked I tell you, shocked....i am sure it is the same with teenagers looking at boobies here, although they arent likely to admit it. I seemed to remember reports from Australia the kids were also simply going to app not covered like ones for talking about cooking.

    If they get 40% of kids off social media, and reduce the time spent for many others, that seems a pretty good outcome to me.

    Plus I think there is a problem of checking legacy child accounts which will go away as people age out of restrictions.

    Too early to say whether this ban has been effective or not.
    Another country is folowing - Greece:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgx1x742x5o
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
    France is another interesting example. In GDP terms, both absolute and per capita, it hovers around parity with the UK and is currently a little below. But it *looks* much nicer because much more is spent on public spaces. And there’s far less of a gap in look and feel between the capital and the provinces than there is in Britain.

    But the French are utterly depressed about their country, both the left and the right (with different though overlapping rationales for why). Part of it is the direction of travel. Yes the public realm and services are way better than in the UK, but they are becoming less good. Spending is being cut, municipalities are being merged to save money, schools being closed because there are no children left, things once taken for granted now under threat from their own version of austerity.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 25,472
    Gallowgate said:

    Good news on the SMR front.

    https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2026/04/13/rolls-royce-signs-small-nuclear-plants-contract/

    "each generating enough electricity to power 1m homes."

    Dear Construction Enquirer...

    Just tell us how many MW, ffs.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,866
    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    BiB - did road deaths double after that decision?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,212
    SandyRentool said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Good news on the SMR front.

    https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2026/04/13/rolls-royce-signs-small-nuclear-plants-contract/

    "each generating enough electricity to power 1m homes."

    Dear Construction Enquirer...

    Just tell us how many MW, ffs.
    Some of use prefer our units to be London Bus and Olympic Swimming Pool based.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    BiB - did road deaths double after that decision?
    Continued to fall.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,363
    SandyRentool said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Good news on the SMR front.

    https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2026/04/13/rolls-royce-signs-small-nuclear-plants-contract/

    "each generating enough electricity to power 1m homes."

    Dear Construction Enquirer...

    Just tell us how many MW, ffs.
    Number of homes is the football pitches / Hyde parks / Belgiums / Waleses of electricity generation.

    Talking of Waleses, I was pondering on Peter Magyar’s nominative determinism and thinking it’s a shame Lech Walesa didn’t turn his attention to leading Plaid Cymru after his stint at Solidarinosc.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,212
    edited April 13
    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    BiB - did road deaths double after that decision?
    A bit of digging gets to this chart (annual UK road deaths on the Y-axis).



    Suggests a drop from 2004 to 2010, but seems to be a continuation of a steady drop from 1970.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,483
    MelonB said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
    France is another interesting example. In GDP terms, both absolute and per capita, it hovers around parity with the UK and is currently a little below. But it *looks* much nicer because much more is spent on public spaces. And there’s far less of a gap in look and feel between the capital and the provinces than there is in Britain.

    But the French are utterly depressed about their country, both the left and the right (with different though overlapping rationales for why). Part of it is the direction of travel. Yes the public realm and services are way better than in the UK, but they are becoming less good. Spending is being cut, municipalities are being merged to save money, schools being closed because there are no children left, things once taken for granted now under threat from their own version of austerity.
    I do sometimes wonder whether people being utterly depressed is 100% driven by objective reality about stuff like economics or whether some of it reflects more intangible stuff, eg social media narratives, loneliness, ageing? I'm not angry and depressed and neither are most of the people I know. Do I live in a bubble? Or do people just like moaning?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,924
    edited April 13
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    Problem is the current replacement right wing party (Reform) is worse on every measure
    Reform is the party for social conservatives, those who hate immigration and rightwing Thatcherites, so only worse if you are not in those groups.

    There is also Restore for those who hate immigration even more than Reform and think even Farage isn't anti Islam enough
  • MattWMattW Posts: 33,542
    edited April 13
    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    BiB - did road deaths double after that decision?
    Here's the historical graph. They decided to stop trying, and progress stopped.



    (Source:https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-annual-report-2024/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-annual-report-2024)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,212
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MelonB said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
    France is another interesting example. In GDP terms, both absolute and per capita, it hovers around parity with the UK and is currently a little below. But it *looks* much nicer because much more is spent on public spaces. And there’s far less of a gap in look and feel between the capital and the provinces than there is in Britain.

    But the French are utterly depressed about their country, both the left and the right (with different though overlapping rationales for why). Part of it is the direction of travel. Yes the public realm and services are way better than in the UK, but they are becoming less good. Spending is being cut, municipalities are being merged to save money, schools being closed because there are no children left, things once taken for granted now under threat from their own version of austerity.
    I do sometimes wonder whether people being utterly depressed is 100% driven by objective reality about stuff like economics or whether some of it reflects more intangible stuff, eg social media narratives, loneliness, ageing? I'm not angry and depressed and neither are most of the people I know. Do I live in a bubble? Or do people just like moaning?
    I think a lot depends on where you live, how 'easy' your life is, whether you have financial worries or not.

    One thing we noticed on Saturday. We went to Devizes (a small market town in Wiltshire) for a walk up the Caen Hill flight and some lunch in the town centre. The place was dead. We found a nice cafe and at 1.45 pm the place was empty. No customers besides ourselves.
    It was a nice enough day - the odd shower came through but it is April after all. But so, so quiet.

    I would not want to be running small shops, cafes or other hospitality right now. Something is off.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    Problem is the current replacement right wing party (Reform) is worse on every measure
    Reform is the party for social conservatives, those who hate immigration and rightwing Thatcherites, so only worse if you are not in those groups.

    There is also Restore for those who hate immigration even more than Reform and think even Farage isn't anti Islam enough
    Your problem there is that both are racist parties masquerading as anti immigration.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    turbotubbs said:

    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    BiB - did road deaths double after that decision?
    A bit of digging gets to this chart (annual UK road deaths on the Y-axis).



    Suggests a drop from 2004 to 2010, but seems to be a continuation of a steady drop from 1970.
    IIRC we have one of the lowest in the world - which is why that reduction tails off a bit.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,924
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    This will all depend on a number of key constituencies at Holyrood. If Labour hold Dumbarton and Edinburgh South and gain East Lothian, all on the Yougov MRP forecast to go SNP, if the Conservatives hold their border seats, all but 1 projected to go SNP and if Reform gain Banffshire and Buchan coast from the SNP, the only area of Scotland that voted Leave in 2016, then the SNP would fall short of a majority.

    Regardless though Starmer has said he will refuse indyref2 and as the UK Supreme Court confirmed the Westminster Parliament has the final say on the Union. Indeed Swinney pushing for an independence referendum in 2028 could see some unionist tactical voting in the seats mentioned above to deny the SNP their forecast majority

    'Indeed Swinney pushing for an independence referendum in 2028 could see some unionist tactical voting in the seats mentioned above to deny the SNP their forecast majority'

    You really are grasping at straws
    The Scottish Tories get their highest voteshare when the SNP are pushing indyref2 hard and they can push back against that
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 20,986
    Malmesbury said:

    bondegezou said:

    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    The public think that we are richer than we are. In the sense of the whole country.

    But that nearly infinite wealth has been hoarded by the Bankers, the Billionaires, the Immigrants, the Muslims, the Jews, the Lizard-Men-In-People-Suits.

    So all we need to do is tax the Lizard Men and we will all be rolling in money.
    Well I do keep stressing that the grossly unequal distribution of wealth is a big problem. Somebody will listen one day. But in the meantime lots more 'it's all about growing the pie' and 'a rising tide lifts all boats' wibbling to endure. I can take it. I'm strong.
    Even if you confiscated all the money of UK billionaires, you couldn't fund the NHS for a year.

    The giant stores of money in the UK are pensions and houses. And the notional value of property is not realisable, on the scale that the believers in the "Lizard Men took all the money:" want.

    You can argue that some should pay more. But it won't create epic change.
    If you confiscated all of Elon Musk's money, you could pay for over four and a half years of the NHS, I believe.
    The slight problem there, is that Elon Musk isn't a tax payer in the UK. Or a citizen. Or a resident.
    I am aware of that, but a lot of the UK’s wealth ends up in the hands of very rich Americans.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 72,193
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Labour result is bad enough though it could be worse.

    For Her Majesty's Main Opposition Party though to go from 23% to 8% as the Conservative and Unionist Party is extermination level, no ifs no buts it's extermination.

    LOL

    Starmer and labour starring at a disaster and it's all about the tories

    Friday 8th May will be all about Starmer, labour and how they can replace at best a middle manager on a tourist visa

    You may howl on about Kemi but no matter May 7th, she will lead into GE 29 and why should the conservative party even listen to a lefty on a rant

    Tory MPs won’t care how badly Labour do.

    They will be looking at the second electoral cycle where the Tories have gone backwards and will think Badenoch will see us lose our seats in 2029.
    Unsurprisingly I do not agree and why would they even consider it when she is outpolling her party

    The brand is the problem not the leader and she has 3 years to deal with it

  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    edited April 13
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MelonB said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
    France is another interesting example. In GDP terms, both absolute and per capita, it hovers around parity with the UK and is currently a little below. But it *looks* much nicer because much more is spent on public spaces. And there’s far less of a gap in look and feel between the capital and the provinces than there is in Britain.

    But the French are utterly depressed about their country, both the left and the right (with different though overlapping rationales for why). Part of it is the direction of travel. Yes the public realm and services are way better than in the UK, but they are becoming less good. Spending is being cut, municipalities are being merged to save money, schools being closed because there are no children left, things once taken for granted now under threat from their own version of austerity.
    I do sometimes wonder whether people being utterly depressed is 100% driven by objective reality about stuff like economics or whether some of it reflects more intangible stuff, eg social media narratives, loneliness, ageing? I'm not angry and depressed and neither are most of the people I know. Do I live in a bubble? Or do people just like moaning?
    I suspect a lot of it is comparing yourself with your neighbours / neighbouring towns.

    I think Darlington isn’t doing particularly well but compare it to the rest of Teeside / County Durham and it’s doing way better than those places are.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,661
    Theuniondivvie said:

    FF43 said:

    It does feel like the SNP is the only show in town in Scotland. Which isn't good.

    As I’ve mentioned before the Unionist sub branches in Scotland are permanently infantilised because much of government in Scotland is still decided by their own parties in Westminster so no real motive to make a decent offer themselves (on the dangerous assumption that they have talented, independent minded folk that could think up such an offer). Sarwar’s ‘break’ with Starmer was entirely a dunderheided tactic to try and endear himself with Scottish voters which has flopped. The fitful attempts to portray him as some kind of Caledonian Zohran are painful.

    Afraid we’re stuck in this limbo until something genuinely breaks. The duopoly of Cons and Lab being smashed might be it, but PM Farage is a heavy price to pay.
    I'm not sure they are more infantalised than the SNP. At least you get a choice amongst unionist parties. SNP have got the independence market sewn up and that puts them in a commanding position regardless of what else they do. And it is very regardless. It's more that they are assumed by everyone to be the natural party of power in Scotland, as Labour used to be, and the Conservatives have been in England. It isn't a healthy state of affairs.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 128,599
    Me, in this shop, with my reputation.


  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 7,137
    Still think Tory or Labour will be in the lead by 2028.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 18,483
    turbotubbs said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MelonB said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
    France is another interesting example. In GDP terms, both absolute and per capita, it hovers around parity with the UK and is currently a little below. But it *looks* much nicer because much more is spent on public spaces. And there’s far less of a gap in look and feel between the capital and the provinces than there is in Britain.

    But the French are utterly depressed about their country, both the left and the right (with different though overlapping rationales for why). Part of it is the direction of travel. Yes the public realm and services are way better than in the UK, but they are becoming less good. Spending is being cut, municipalities are being merged to save money, schools being closed because there are no children left, things once taken for granted now under threat from their own version of austerity.
    I do sometimes wonder whether people being utterly depressed is 100% driven by objective reality about stuff like economics or whether some of it reflects more intangible stuff, eg social media narratives, loneliness, ageing? I'm not angry and depressed and neither are most of the people I know. Do I live in a bubble? Or do people just like moaning?
    I think a lot depends on where you live, how 'easy' your life is, whether you have financial worries or not.

    One thing we noticed on Saturday. We went to Devizes (a small market town in Wiltshire) for a walk up the Caen Hill flight and some lunch in the town centre. The place was dead. We found a nice cafe and at 1.45 pm the place was empty. No customers besides ourselves.
    It was a nice enough day - the odd shower came through but it is April after all. But so, so quiet.

    I would not want to be running small shops, cafes or other hospitality right now. Something is off.
    That's interesting, and sad. I suspect I do exist in a bubble of relative prosperity as well as living in a sociable neighbourhood amid the hustle and bustle of inner London.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Me, in this shop, with my reputation.


    Not sure about those trainers.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 63,554
    bondegezou said:

    Malmesbury said:

    bondegezou said:

    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Malmesbury said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    The public think we're doing much better than we actually are. The public are so pissed off with how we're doing that they want to ditch mainstream politics for flaky 'roll the dice' populism.

    That public eh. Rum bunch.
    The public think that we are richer than we are. In the sense of the whole country.

    But that nearly infinite wealth has been hoarded by the Bankers, the Billionaires, the Immigrants, the Muslims, the Jews, the Lizard-Men-In-People-Suits.

    So all we need to do is tax the Lizard Men and we will all be rolling in money.
    Well I do keep stressing that the grossly unequal distribution of wealth is a big problem. Somebody will listen one day. But in the meantime lots more 'it's all about growing the pie' and 'a rising tide lifts all boats' wibbling to endure. I can take it. I'm strong.
    Even if you confiscated all the money of UK billionaires, you couldn't fund the NHS for a year.

    The giant stores of money in the UK are pensions and houses. And the notional value of property is not realisable, on the scale that the believers in the "Lizard Men took all the money:" want.

    You can argue that some should pay more. But it won't create epic change.
    If you confiscated all of Elon Musk's money, you could pay for over four and a half years of the NHS, I believe.
    The slight problem there, is that Elon Musk isn't a tax payer in the UK. Or a citizen. Or a resident.
    I am aware of that, but a lot of the UK’s wealth ends up in the hands of very rich Americans.
    And we are back to growing the economy in the UK...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,661
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    Problem is the current replacement right wing party (Reform) is worse on every measure
    Reform is the party for social conservatives, those who hate immigration and rightwing Thatcherites, so only worse if you are not in those groups.

    There is also Restore for those who hate immigration even more than Reform and think even Farage isn't anti Islam enough
    Reform is the party for miserable people. I could say miserable gits, but that would be a subjective term.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388
    Farage's desperate attempts to distance himself from Trump is enough to need a sick bucket.
  • eekeek Posts: 33,922
    edited April 13
    turbotubbs said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MelonB said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
    France is another interesting example. In GDP terms, both absolute and per capita, it hovers around parity with the UK and is currently a little below. But it *looks* much nicer because much more is spent on public spaces. And there’s far less of a gap in look and feel between the capital and the provinces than there is in Britain.

    But the French are utterly depressed about their country, both the left and the right (with different though overlapping rationales for why). Part of it is the direction of travel. Yes the public realm and services are way better than in the UK, but they are becoming less good. Spending is being cut, municipalities are being merged to save money, schools being closed because there are no children left, things once taken for granted now under threat from their own version of austerity.
    I do sometimes wonder whether people being utterly depressed is 100% driven by objective reality about stuff like economics or whether some of it reflects more intangible stuff, eg social media narratives, loneliness, ageing? I'm not angry and depressed and neither are most of the people I know. Do I live in a bubble? Or do people just like moaning?
    I think a lot depends on where you live, how 'easy' your life is, whether you have financial worries or not.

    One thing we noticed on Saturday. We went to Devizes (a small market town in Wiltshire) for a walk up the Caen Hill flight and some lunch in the town centre. The place was dead. We found a nice cafe and at 1.45 pm the place was empty. No customers besides ourselves.
    It was a nice enough day - the odd shower came through but it is April after all. But so, so quiet.

    I would not want to be running small shops, cafes or other hospitality right now. Something is off.
    Counter point - we went to Tynemouth on Saturday to visit the market at the station.

    Now Tynemouth has always been one of the posher places in Tyne and Wear but the bar we had lunch in was busy from 1:30 to 3:30 when we left. Now granted there wasn’t a replacement customers which is why we stayed so long but it wasn’t dead and there was 30 or so people eating / drinking

    Equally it wasn’t cheap, 2 glasses of wine, 1 beer, 1 soft drink, 1 main course and 1 starter was £63 but I think that comes back to the fact that some people have money and are spending it , others don’t so can’t
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,568
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Labour result is bad enough though it could be worse.

    For Her Majesty's Main Opposition Party though to go from 23% to 8% as the Conservative and Unionist Party is extermination level, no ifs no buts it's extermination.

    LOL

    Starmer and labour starring at a disaster and it's all about the tories

    Friday 8th May will be all about Starmer, labour and how they can replace at best a middle manager on a tourist visa

    You may howl on about Kemi but no matter May 7th, she will lead into GE 29 and why should the conservative party even listen to a lefty on a rant

    Tory MPs won’t care how badly Labour do.

    They will be looking at the second electoral cycle where the Tories have gone backwards and will think Badenoch will see us lose our seats in 2029.
    Then they are bloody fools and no better than idiot football fans calling for their manager to be sacked. Of course the Tories have gone backwards. Everyone has gone backwards because there are now five parties rather than three. If they think the Tories are getting back into the high 20s with another leader they are living in cloud cuckoo land.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 72,388

    Stan Veuger
    @stanveuger

    It would be a genuine public service if the new Hungarian government published an overview of cash and in-kind payments made to American/British academics/commentators/journalists over the past decade.

    https://x.com/stanveuger/status/2043429034319589861
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 23,212
    Malmesbury said:

    turbotubbs said:

    tlg86 said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Malmesbury said:

    MattW said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    That, however, is an article by Lord Frost.

    Is someone from the USA who has 2 weeks paid holiday not 5, who spends perhaps £10k per annum on healthcare that is free here, who gets little or no income when they are ill, and who on average will die 4 years earlier than other Western citizens really wealthier than a British citizen?

    And that is leaving aside the distribution patterns of wealth.

    Full article:
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/8b49279b294fb81d
    I note that you havent consider the dystopian hell hole that is... Switzerland. Or Germany. Or Australia.
    The problem remains what it has always been - inadequate levels of investment. Why we fail to invest as much as other countries is more of a mystery to me.
    I think the main British issue is the people on our political Right have a weird, blind fetish about the USA .... even now as we watch it fall to pieces. So I comment on that.

    No matter what happens, they will wreck the society. They will always live of past investment, and not support the future - so they can give a false impression to their supporters.

    Just as they did for example with a highly successful policy such as Sure Start, or the initiative which cut out road deaths in half in a mere 9 years from 2000/1.

    Even David Cameron - marketing himself as he did - did not give a damn, and just trampled it into the earth.

    That's why in my view the Conservative Party - speaking as a former member - needs to die, and be replaced with something decent.
    BiB - did road deaths double after that decision?
    A bit of digging gets to this chart (annual UK road deaths on the Y-axis).



    Suggests a drop from 2004 to 2010, but seems to be a continuation of a steady drop from 1970.
    IIRC we have one of the lowest in the world - which is why that reduction tails off a bit.
    Indeed. Is there a bottom number that is almost impossible to go lower without, say, employing benefits claimants to walk in front of cars with flags and the speed limit down to 4 miles per hour? You can argue no deaths (or indeed injuries, which are more common) but in reality for the number of miles travelled per person, our roads are rather safe.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 136,924
    edited April 13
    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    This may be part of the explanation 'Over half of UK citizens take no flights at all in a given year, and the average number of overseas trips is one or two. Overwhelmingly most go to the European countries comparable to or even slightly poorer than the UK, such as Spain, France and Italy. Hardly anyone visits the wealthier places like Germany, and very few travel outside Europe – a hundred times as many Brits go to Spain every year as to Australia.'
    The wealthiest countries by economic, culture, relative equality, the gap between haves and have not, and general happiness, have in my experience been in one specific area of Europe.

    Scandinavia.

    For social democrats yes if you like relatively dull big state societies which are high tax and high public spending
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,958
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    turbotubbs said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MelonB said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    MattW said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "We asked participants where they thought Britain stood economically compared to our main competitors. It turns out voters are living in a dreamworld.

    Nearly half of British voters think that we are as rich, or richer, than Switzerland. Over half think we are as rich or richer than Australia, Singapore, or Germany. And, incredibly, over half of us think Britain is as rich as, or richer, than the United States.

    The truth of course is that we are poorer than all those countries – according to the IMF, we are 10 per cent poorer than Germany, 20 per cent poorer than Australia, about 40 per cent poorer than America or Singapore."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/04/13/national-decline-worse-than-the-british-public-think/

    What's interesting is that we are meant to have a higher per capita income than Japan - I have just spent a fortnight in Japan and I have to say, that was not the impression I got! Alternatively, perhaps there are things we can do to make our country a lot more pleasant without raising our per capita income, if we are genuinely richer than Japan.
    I think there is a problem with making a judgement "by walking about", as it is based on impression of quality of public realm.

    We know that from 2010 (and perhaps a little earlier) through to 2025 investment in our public realm was deliberately and systematically undermined, and the Govt lived of the capital without investing in the maintenance.

    That is in the numbers on resources available to local authorities, and the amount of expenditure required to be dedicated to statutory services increasing markedly.

    Plus allocation of much funding by bid and competition.

    We even have Rishi Sunak on video telling an audience at a garden party how proud he was to be transferring resources from poorer areas to wealthier areas such as where his audience lived.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegB9J-mn1A

    I qeustion whether you can judge on that basis.
    Agreed on that. But this is also what I'm getting at, there may be places where we can spend a little bit of money and make people feel a lot happier about their lives. We allow our public spaces to become squalid, the Japanese don't. Why is that?
    France is another interesting example. In GDP terms, both absolute and per capita, it hovers around parity with the UK and is currently a little below. But it *looks* much nicer because much more is spent on public spaces. And there’s far less of a gap in look and feel between the capital and the provinces than there is in Britain.

    But the French are utterly depressed about their country, both the left and the right (with different though overlapping rationales for why). Part of it is the direction of travel. Yes the public realm and services are way better than in the UK, but they are becoming less good. Spending is being cut, municipalities are being merged to save money, schools being closed because there are no children left, things once taken for granted now under threat from their own version of austerity.
    I do sometimes wonder whether people being utterly depressed is 100% driven by objective reality about stuff like economics or whether some of it reflects more intangible stuff, eg social media narratives, loneliness, ageing? I'm not angry and depressed and neither are most of the people I know. Do I live in a bubble? Or do people just like moaning?
    I think a lot depends on where you live, how 'easy' your life is, whether you have financial worries or not.

    One thing we noticed on Saturday. We went to Devizes (a small market town in Wiltshire) for a walk up the Caen Hill flight and some lunch in the town centre. The place was dead. We found a nice cafe and at 1.45 pm the place was empty. No customers besides ourselves.
    It was a nice enough day - the odd shower came through but it is April after all. But so, so quiet.

    I would not want to be running small shops, cafes or other hospitality right now. Something is off.
    That's interesting, and sad. I suspect I do exist in a bubble of relative prosperity as well as living in a sociable neighbourhood amid the hustle and bustle of inner London.
    And yet people in small market towns assume London is an Islamic no go area where phones are snatched the instant you take it out of your secure pocket......
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