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Praise be to Allah – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,041
edited April 6 in General
Praise be to Allah – politicalbetting.com

% supporting the U.S. negotiating a ceasefire with Iran, according to polls conducted Mar 20-21 | Apr 6U.S. adults 66% | 70%Democrats 78% | 83%Independents 63% | 62%Republicans 58% | 67%https://t.co/2MAnD2puyRhttps://t.co/PrBKUKVE3i pic.twitter.com/PmYUE2nBGR

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,274
    edited April 6
    First?

    Praise be to Allah for that first.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,557
    So basically, Trump is behaving like a lunatic and even his base have noticed?
  • While thing is a complete waste of time
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,274
    I think one of the real legacies of the second Trump term will be more and more countries will get nuclear weapons as America is no longer seen as a reliable ally.

    Trump: “We have 45,000 soldiers in South Korea to protect us from Kim Jong Un, who I get along with very well, as you know. Do you notice he said very nice things about me? He used to call Joe Biden a mentally retarded person... He was so nasty to Biden”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/2041241352847892796
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,188
    edited April 6
    ydoethur said:

    So basically, Trump is behaving like a lunatic and even his base have noticed?

    But will they stop voting for him and his fan club?

    Though he has lost Fucker Carlson and MTG.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,842

    I've spent most of the afternoon being bollocked by my wife for various things, and I'm not sure why.

    How's your Easter Monday going?

    Is that a euphemism???
    Sunil - if you had a wife you’d understand. Sometimes ‘everything’ is wrong and it’s all your fault.
    Point of order. I live with my mum...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,274
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,557
    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    You know what group of people use 'we' when any given member means 'I'?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,629
    It's funny to see everybody from across the political spectrum in Ireland repeating the same soundbite about nobody having a veto over who lives in their area. The Irish government is considering legislation that would curtail the ability of members of the public to object to asylum seeker accommodation.

    https://x.com/amandaregan2024/status/2040785779425697880
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147
    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    @idreesali114

    Asked by @nanditab1 if he is winding down the war with Iran or escalating, President Trump says: "I can't tell you. I don't know."
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,116
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Guess what? The American Constitution is simply not fit for purpose. Who'd have guessed?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    The people that can remove him don't want to
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,274
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    People like RFK Jnr are loving this, they get to do everything they've ever wanted to do.

    They've gutted so much that we'll only notice when things are too late, for example cutting funding for tracking infectious diseases.

    If the 2014 Western Africa Ebola outbreak happened today, we'd all be screwed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,557
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Guess what? The American Constitution is simply not fit for purpose. Who'd have guessed?
    You mean, a document drawn up by a bunch of wealthy, massively racist paedos to serve their own interests serves the interests of a wealthy, massively racist paedo?

    That's extraordinary.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,610
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    @idreesali114

    Asked by @nanditab1 if he is winding down the war with Iran or escalating, President Trump says: "I can't tell you. I don't know."
    Well, I think we can all agree on that one.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
    What happened to "He's really sharp, actually..." ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601
    "He also discussed theories that the 79-year-old is showing signs of Alzheimer’s disease or frontotemporal dementia, pointing out that much of the president’s behavior is “consistent with these diagnoses.”

    “The acting out, behavior changes, lashing out, acting unreasonable,” Gupta said. “One could say this is his core fundamental personality based on what we’ve seen over, frankly, his entire adult life, but it’s getting worse.”"

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/top-doctor-sounds-alarm-trump-065721770.html
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,557
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
    What happened to "He's really sharp, actually..." ?
    We've all got a lot blunter.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,975
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
    I remember reading during the Hilary vs. Trump campaign that "This is the last, ugly, snarling, dying dog-fight of the boomer generations".

    How we laugh in hindsight.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 39,754
    fpt
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    So just to clarify some ongoing changes:

    MTD means that individuals with a qualifying income of over £50k (this year) or £20k (which I think is form next year) will have to submit quarterly returns using specialist tax software. Not the free portal that you send in the figures through annually. That is closed to businesses from this year and will prob lay be closed to everyone within about three years.

    You can either get a bank account that has the software attached, or pay for the software, or pay an accountant.

    Reasons why this is foolish:

    1) The first rule of tax is you don't make it more complicated or expensive for people to pay it. This does both.

    2) It imposes a lot of extra work on everyone to do quarterly returns, which as the tax is still played annually is not merely unnecessary but arguably counterproductive.

    3) It imposes considerable additional costs of both time and labour on ordinary people, as a transfer from the government.

    4) as a result, despite the claims of the Treasury to the contrary, it probably will reduce the amount of tax they actually end up collecting.

    5) In doing so, it will piss everyone off for no good reason.

    If tax collection were being made quarterly there would be a logic to it, but it isn't. If it was possible to do it using free, or common, software it would be understandable, but it isn't either.

    So it is a bad policy. Not perhaps the poll tax, but possessed of similar lack of thought.

    A good summary of SOME of the horror herein. Tho it kicks in at £30k next year and £20k the year after

    I have a strong suspicion that this first year will go so badly, with so many people struggling (and not filing) they will end up scrapping it. Or postponing it "indefinitely". It is the fiscal equivalent of HS2
    I agree that it probably will be scrapped.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,188
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Guess what? The American Constitution is simply not fit for purpose. Who'd have guessed?
    No constitution provides protection against the supposed protectors and guardians abdicating their job. Or being complicit.

    Once the Supreme Court was made the third and most powerful chamber of Congress, it was only a matter of time until it got captured.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,170
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    The people that can remove him don't want to
    Yes - it's odd. Surely they've noticed? He's stark staring mad. It's so far away from normal behaviour. I've seen drunks in pubs in Ancoats be more coherent.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,975

    I've spent most of the afternoon being bollocked by my wife for various things, and I'm not sure why.

    How's your Easter Monday going?

    Is that a euphemism???
    Sunil - if you had a wife you’d understand. Sometimes ‘everything’ is wrong and it’s all your fault.
    Point of order. I live with my mum...
    Do you live in Norfolk? That could change the mum/wife equation somewhat.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    The Dems didn't exactly help America by conspiring to hide Biden's equally obvious dementia, for at least three years. Indeed they tried to get him re-elected while knowing he was gaga

    And there were plenty of fools on here happy to defend Biden with "oh he's got a stutter", etc etc

    Anyway Trump is now the clear and present danger. I believe my psychiatrist friend, now, about the frontotemporal dementia shit, Trump has declined a lot quite quickly. He has good and bad days but more bad than good, now

    Eeesh., Just the man you want in charge of the American nuclear arsenal during a stupid war with insane mullahs
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,809
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Because if you are an elected official, and you oppose Trump, you will get primaried and lose your job.

    You will also likely get harassed and bullied and threatened.

  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,943
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
    I do hope the astronauts sign off with a 'don't blow it up whilst we are away' before heading out of view.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 29,221
    Listening to Hegseth brings to mind this:

    It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.


    What the Trump administration lacks is a bad guy with political gravitas.

    A Thomas Cromwell, a Cardinal Richelieu, an Otto Bismarck, a Tywin Lannister, a Henry Kissinger.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147
    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    The people that can remove him don't want to
    Yes - it's odd. Surely they've noticed? He's stark staring mad. It's so far away from normal behaviour. I've seen drunks in pubs in Ancoats be more coherent.
    @dougboneparth

    I read somewhere that being an American right now is like riding in the backseat of a car with a drunk driver, and I haven’t been able to stop thinking about it.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,989
    edited April 6
    We've already seen "The Simpsons" episode featuring a President Trump turn from a piss-take into a prophecy.

    But now his foreign policy is being conducted in the form of a sequel to "Team America: World Police", only this time substituting the destruction of Iran for that of Cairo.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8XrE0FSQv4
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 58,116

    Listening to Hegseth brings to mind this:

    It is a tale
    Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
    Signifying nothing.


    What the Trump administration lacks is a bad guy with political gravitas.

    A Thomas Cromwell, a Cardinal Richelieu, an Otto Bismarck, a Tywin Lannister, a Henry Kissinger.

    Yep, they are not even good at being bad. They are not good at anything.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,607
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
    What happened to "He's really sharp, actually..." ?
    We've all got a lot blunter.
    WTF did Biden do?
    He clearly had failing mental capacity but he just made verbal mistakes, he didn't do anything irrational or demented.
    Also "I saw it in Biden and now I see it in Trump"?
    Are you sure you're not suffering from NPD yourself?
    You're several years behind the curve with Trump
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,887

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
    I do hope the astronauts sign off with a 'don't blow it up whilst we are away' before heading out of view.
    When they reappear from round the back of the moon, I hope one of them says "There is a Santa Claus" to wind up the conspiracy theorists.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    This is why the whole argument about Prime Ministers having a mandate is so wrong-headed. Trump has a mandate, because he was directly-elected and that makes it harder to remove him from office. Prime Ministers only have an indirect mandate, and so it's easier for MPs, who have a direct mandate, to remove them from office when required.
    Trump could remain in office if the rest of the Government did what they were supposed to do. They could stop the war. They could stop all his crazy shit.

    THEY DON'T WANT TO
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 59,202
    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    My mother had it. She appeared quite lucid at times. Could hold a rational conversation.

    Then would berate me for not congratularing her on her winning a Nobel prize.

    Not peace, I don't think.

    She lived in a world of her own creation.

    I see echoes of that with Trump.

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 59,202

    We've already seen "The Simpsons" episode featuring a President Trump turn from a piss-take into a prophecy.

    But now his foreign policy is being conducted in the form of a sequel to "Team America: World Police", only this time substituting the destruction of Iran for that of Cairo.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8XrE0FSQv4

    Team America: World Police

    "Are we the baddies?"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    Leon said:

    "You know who else didn't help us? South Korea didn't help us. We've got 45,000 soldiers in South Korea to protect them from Kim Jong Un, who I get along with very well. He said very nice things about me. He used to call Joe Biden a mentally retarded person."


    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2041223186784665861?s=20

    South Koreans are just about the most America-loving people on earth. He is deliberately destroying all the USA's most valuable alliances. And he's doing this because he likes the leader of North Korea???

    Taking him at face value he genuinely gets swayed by people saying nice things to him, and that is worth more than decades of alliances. It's an odd, odd approach even for a narcissist, if it is true.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 864
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    @idreesali114

    Asked by @nanditab1 if he is winding down the war with Iran or escalating, President Trump says: "I can't tell you. I don't know."
    Trump in telling the truth shock!
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,975
    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Lovely! Reminds me of a shot I took up by Luss a while back :


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147
    While we wait for the Orange lunatic to launch Armageddon, can we pause for a moment to laugh st Steve Hilton?

    @cwebbonline.com‬

    Wait one damn minute.

    Steve Hilton has an endorsement from Charlie Kirk on his TikTok page.

    But the “endorsement” is an AI video… posted by Hilton after Charlie Kirk died.

    We don’t need a fact check for this one. This is just weird AF!

    https://bsky.app/profile/cwebbonline.com/post/3mitzqfjmzc2q
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147
    kle4 said:

    Taking him at face value he genuinely gets swayed by people saying nice things to him

    Only if he remembers
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    edited April 6

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump Derangement strikes another commentator.

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/2041199604339708090

    Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.

    That shows a level of ignorance so profound that it is astonishing that the author thinks their views on anything are worth sharing with the world. Stalin, Mao and Hitler, probably in that order, are the greatest mass murderers the world has ever seen. Trump is an ignorant, greedy, dishonest buffoon who has no problem killing people if he thinks it helps him make an extra buck or two but he is strictly amateur hour.
    That's definitely the podium, but I think Mao gets gold, and Hitler and Stalin share silver
    It baffles me that there are unironic Stalinists and Maoists in the world.
    Power worshippers of the kind who worship transgressive power - “Real Men Don’t Need Rules”
    An argument along the lines that the end justifies the means is not unusual, and is indeed one sanctioned by the law - you are allowed to break the law in service to a higher objective, such as using violence in self-defence.

    Mao and Stalin take this to an extreme, but sometimes people do pursue a logical argument to extreme ends.

    Hitler I would put in a category of his own, because the Holocaust was an end in itself. The means and the end were one and the same.

    Perhaps you could argue that Pol Pot should also be in this category with Hitler.
    I believe that the means illuminate the ends.

    If getting to your Utopia requires killing whole digit percentages of the population, then your Utopia is evil.

    While a number of people confuse table manners with being a good person, there are plenty of monsters who could turn of the affable charm. Especially to deal with visitors from the outside world.
    Many a sci-fi story has explored the idea of utopia - and the good ones can often show how getting to that utopia requires some pretty dystopic acts and restrictions.

    I'm personally of the opinion the Culture is such an example.
    I actually spoke with Banks about the Culture at a book signing. He really thought that you could get round the uncertainty principle with enough compute power. My point was that his Minds were just guessing (though at a higher level) and Special Circumstances was just being the CIA.

    Note that they employed the Chairmaker, after they knew what he was.

    "But I do ill in the name of Justice" has been the cry of everyone with blood up to their elbows, since before Troy.
    That's the odd thing about it to me - I feel like his books on the subject subtly suggest it is a utopia with a (slight) dystopia beneath the surface, given many are about people on the fringes of the society somewhat pushing against it's norms and aware of some of the grubbier elements of its, er, culture, everyone pumped up on drugs they can activate with a thought, yet apparently he really did not mean that at all.

    I've said before I prefer the setting of the Polity, as whilst the books are not as inventive, it seems more self aware that there are some f*cked up elements to being run by Minds.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,665
    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Great photo.

    It's got me trying to work out where on the Yorkshire coast you can see the sun setting across a bay like that. I'm guessing Cayton Bay between Scarborough and Filey?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    My mother had it. She appeared quite lucid at times. Could hold a rational conversation.

    Then would berate me for not congratularing her on her winning a Nobel prize.

    Not peace, I don't think.

    She lived in a world of her own creation.

    I see echoes of that with Trump.

    Sympathies, but interesting insight. Thankyou

    Dementia varies so much, doesn't it? I saw my poor old mum over Easter, very frail and 87 and on her way out, and she too has dementia. But with her it's polite and sad and she just has no short term memory and asks the same questions five times in half an hour. Yet she remains very polite and kind and sweet, which actually makes it somewhat more painful, in a way

    I wouldn't put her in the Oval Office, if I am brutally honest
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,975

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
    I do hope the astronauts sign off with a 'don't blow it up whilst we are away' before heading out of view.
    When they reappear from round the back of the moon, I hope one of them says "There is a Santa Claus" to wind up the conspiracy theorists.
    I hope they scream "IT'S FLAT!!!!!" then get comically cut-off audio.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,188
    This is starting to resemble - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBHHFnUqo5o
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 59,202
    ohnotnow said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Lovely! Reminds me of a shot I took up by Luss a while back :


    Bloody chem trails, they get everywhere...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126

    I think one of the real legacies of the second Trump term will be more and more countries will get nuclear weapons as America is no longer seen as a reliable ally.

    Trump: “We have 45,000 soldiers in South Korea to protect us from Kim Jong Un, who I get along with very well, as you know. Do you notice he said very nice things about me? He used to call Joe Biden a mentally retarded person... He was so nasty to Biden”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/2041241352847892796

    It's not easy even if you can do it, certainly if you an enemy of the USA, but more 'allies' may feel the need.

    I've said it before and will again, but the problem goes well beyond Trump - 40% of America, at least, support the general aims even if they might hesitate on specific things. A long hard road is needed to separate everyone from them.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,588
    Scott_xP said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    This is why the whole argument about Prime Ministers having a mandate is so wrong-headed. Trump has a mandate, because he was directly-elected and that makes it harder to remove him from office. Prime Ministers only have an indirect mandate, and so it's easier for MPs, who have a direct mandate, to remove them from office when required.
    Trump could remain in office if the rest of the Government did what they were supposed to do. They could stop the war. They could stop all his crazy shit.

    THEY DON'T WANT TO
    In all the years since its release Kubrick's Dr Strangelove has never had more resonance than it currently has.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147
    Iran's social media trolling is so much better than MAGA's

    https://bsky.app/profile/nothoodlum.bsky.social/post/3mis6674vnc26
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,975
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump Derangement strikes another commentator.

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/2041199604339708090

    Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.

    That shows a level of ignorance so profound that it is astonishing that the author thinks their views on anything are worth sharing with the world. Stalin, Mao and Hitler, probably in that order, are the greatest mass murderers the world has ever seen. Trump is an ignorant, greedy, dishonest buffoon who has no problem killing people if he thinks it helps him make an extra buck or two but he is strictly amateur hour.
    That's definitely the podium, but I think Mao gets gold, and Hitler and Stalin share silver
    It baffles me that there are unironic Stalinists and Maoists in the world.
    Power worshippers of the kind who worship transgressive power - “Real Men Don’t Need Rules”
    An argument along the lines that the end justifies the means is not unusual, and is indeed one sanctioned by the law - you are allowed to break the law in service to a higher objective, such as using violence in self-defence.

    Mao and Stalin take this to an extreme, but sometimes people do pursue a logical argument to extreme ends.

    Hitler I would put in a category of his own, because the Holocaust was an end in itself. The means and the end were one and the same.

    Perhaps you could argue that Pol Pot should also be in this category with Hitler.
    I believe that the means illuminate the ends.

    If getting to your Utopia requires killing whole digit percentages of the population, then your Utopia is evil.

    While a number of people confuse table manners with being a good person, there are plenty of monsters who could turn of the affable charm. Especially to deal with visitors from the outside world.
    Many a sci-fi story has explored the idea of utopia - and the good ones can often show how getting to that utopia requires some pretty dystopic acts and restrictions.

    I'm personally of the opinion the Culture is such an example.
    I actually spoke with Banks about the Culture at a book signing. He really thought that you could get round the uncertainty principle with enough compute power. My point was that his Minds were just guessing (though at a higher level) and Special Circumstances was just being the CIA.

    Note that they employed the Chairmaker, after they knew what he was.

    "But I do ill in the name of Justice" has been the cry of everyone with blood up to their elbows, since before Troy.
    That's the odd thing about it to me - I feel like his books on the subject subtly suggest it is a utopia with a (slight) dystopia beneath the surface, given many are about people on the fringes of the society somewhat pushing against it's norms and aware of some of the grubbier elements of its, er, culture, everyone pumped up on drugs they can activate with a thought, yet apparently he really did not mean that at all.

    I've said before I prefer the setting of the Polity, as whilst the books are not as inventive, it seems more self aware that there are some f*cked up elements to being run by Minds.
    His work pales into insignificance in comparison to works like 'Ultraworld'**

    https://blakes7.fandom.com/wiki/Ultraworld_(episode)




    ** this may not be quite true.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    Certainly the frustrations didn't begin there, he's not liked NATO for a long time, but despite efforts at the time from many to portray it as his expert negotiation bluster, it seems to be the case that he really really does want to seize Greenland and cannot understand why people might object.

    This may just be the result of getting everything you wanted most of your life (apart from the 2020 election).
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,665
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
    I do hope the astronauts sign off with a 'don't blow it up whilst we are away' before heading out of view.
    When they reappear from round the back of the moon, I hope one of them says "There is a Santa Claus" to wind up the conspiracy theorists.
    I hope they scream "IT'S FLAT!!!!!" then get comically cut-off audio.
    Just get a stage hand to walk past one of the Artemis cabin windows - that would cheer up the 'moon landings were faked' crowd no end.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    ohnotnow said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump Derangement strikes another commentator.

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/2041199604339708090

    Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.

    That shows a level of ignorance so profound that it is astonishing that the author thinks their views on anything are worth sharing with the world. Stalin, Mao and Hitler, probably in that order, are the greatest mass murderers the world has ever seen. Trump is an ignorant, greedy, dishonest buffoon who has no problem killing people if he thinks it helps him make an extra buck or two but he is strictly amateur hour.
    That's definitely the podium, but I think Mao gets gold, and Hitler and Stalin share silver
    It baffles me that there are unironic Stalinists and Maoists in the world.
    Power worshippers of the kind who worship transgressive power - “Real Men Don’t Need Rules”
    An argument along the lines that the end justifies the means is not unusual, and is indeed one sanctioned by the law - you are allowed to break the law in service to a higher objective, such as using violence in self-defence.

    Mao and Stalin take this to an extreme, but sometimes people do pursue a logical argument to extreme ends.

    Hitler I would put in a category of his own, because the Holocaust was an end in itself. The means and the end were one and the same.

    Perhaps you could argue that Pol Pot should also be in this category with Hitler.
    I believe that the means illuminate the ends.

    If getting to your Utopia requires killing whole digit percentages of the population, then your Utopia is evil.

    While a number of people confuse table manners with being a good person, there are plenty of monsters who could turn of the affable charm. Especially to deal with visitors from the outside world.
    Many a sci-fi story has explored the idea of utopia - and the good ones can often show how getting to that utopia requires some pretty dystopic acts and restrictions.

    I'm personally of the opinion the Culture is such an example.
    I actually spoke with Banks about the Culture at a book signing. He really thought that you could get round the uncertainty principle with enough compute power. My point was that his Minds were just guessing (though at a higher level) and Special Circumstances was just being the CIA.

    Note that they employed the Chairmaker, after they knew what he was.

    "But I do ill in the name of Justice" has been the cry of everyone with blood up to their elbows, since before Troy.
    That's the odd thing about it to me - I feel like his books on the subject subtly suggest it is a utopia with a (slight) dystopia beneath the surface, given many are about people on the fringes of the society somewhat pushing against it's norms and aware of some of the grubbier elements of its, er, culture, everyone pumped up on drugs they can activate with a thought, yet apparently he really did not mean that at all.

    I've said before I prefer the setting of the Polity, as whilst the books are not as inventive, it seems more self aware that there are some f*cked up elements to being run by Minds.
    His work pales into insignificance in comparison to works like 'Ultraworld'**

    https://blakes7.fandom.com/wiki/Ultraworld_(episode)




    ** this may not be quite true.
    I've never seen Blakes 7. Sorry.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    "You know who else didn't help us? South Korea didn't help us. We've got 45,000 soldiers in South Korea to protect them from Kim Jong Un, who I get along with very well. He said very nice things about me. He used to call Joe Biden a mentally retarded person."


    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2041223186784665861?s=20

    South Koreans are just about the most America-loving people on earth. He is deliberately destroying all the USA's most valuable alliances. And he's doing this because he likes the leader of North Korea???

    Taking him at face value he genuinely gets swayed by people saying nice things to him, and that is worth more than decades of alliances. It's an odd, odd approach even for a narcissist, if it is true.
    In that one 60 seconds of speech he manages to grievously insult South Korea, Japan and Australia, who are his three most important non-NATO allies in the world (with the questionable exception of Israel). Hilariously, if you like dark comedy, they are the countries MAGA Republicans have loudly been proclaiming as America's best new friends, now that the Europeans and Canada have been exposed as cowards and chancers

    Only Trump has just binned them off, too. Where next, America?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,842
    Scott_xP said:

    Iran's social media trolling is so much better than MAGA's

    https://bsky.app/profile/nothoodlum.bsky.social/post/3mis6674vnc26

    "It's not about the money, it's about sending a message: everything burns!"
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,170
    ohnotnow said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Lovely! Reminds me of a shot I took up by Luss a while back :


    That is beautiful. What a fantastic light. Where is Luss? I tries Google maps and it suggested Alexandria, but that doesn't seem right.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,610
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Yes, I saw it in Biden, and I now see it in Trump, Except with Trump there is the added narcissistic disorder to start with

    Fucksake, America, stop electing these mad old men. And depose this lunatic before he kills us all
    I do hope the astronauts sign off with a 'don't blow it up whilst we are away' before heading out of view.
    When they reappear from round the back of the moon, I hope one of them says "There is a Santa Claus" to wind up the conspiracy theorists.
    I hope they scream "IT'S FLAT!!!!!" then get comically cut-off audio.
    They should wait until they are out of contact, then make a pact to all act weird once back in contact, like some sort of Invasion of the Body Snatchers style event has taken place.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,188
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump Derangement strikes another commentator.

    https://x.com/aaronbastani/status/2041199604339708090

    Josef Stalin was more humane than Trump, and certainly never engaged in anything like this rhetoric.

    That shows a level of ignorance so profound that it is astonishing that the author thinks their views on anything are worth sharing with the world. Stalin, Mao and Hitler, probably in that order, are the greatest mass murderers the world has ever seen. Trump is an ignorant, greedy, dishonest buffoon who has no problem killing people if he thinks it helps him make an extra buck or two but he is strictly amateur hour.
    That's definitely the podium, but I think Mao gets gold, and Hitler and Stalin share silver
    It baffles me that there are unironic Stalinists and Maoists in the world.
    Power worshippers of the kind who worship transgressive power - “Real Men Don’t Need Rules”
    An argument along the lines that the end justifies the means is not unusual, and is indeed one sanctioned by the law - you are allowed to break the law in service to a higher objective, such as using violence in self-defence.

    Mao and Stalin take this to an extreme, but sometimes people do pursue a logical argument to extreme ends.

    Hitler I would put in a category of his own, because the Holocaust was an end in itself. The means and the end were one and the same.

    Perhaps you could argue that Pol Pot should also be in this category with Hitler.
    I believe that the means illuminate the ends.

    If getting to your Utopia requires killing whole digit percentages of the population, then your Utopia is evil.

    While a number of people confuse table manners with being a good person, there are plenty of monsters who could turn of the affable charm. Especially to deal with visitors from the outside world.
    Many a sci-fi story has explored the idea of utopia - and the good ones can often show how getting to that utopia requires some pretty dystopic acts and restrictions.

    I'm personally of the opinion the Culture is such an example.
    I actually spoke with Banks about the Culture at a book signing. He really thought that you could get round the uncertainty principle with enough compute power. My point was that his Minds were just guessing (though at a higher level) and Special Circumstances was just being the CIA.

    Note that they employed the Chairmaker, after they knew what he was.

    "But I do ill in the name of Justice" has been the cry of everyone with blood up to their elbows, since before Troy.
    That's the odd thing about it to me - I feel like his books on the subject subtly suggest it is a utopia with a (slight) dystopia beneath the surface, given many are about people on the fringes of the society somewhat pushing against it's norms and aware of some of the grubbier elements of its, er, culture, everyone pumped up on drugs they can activate with a thought, yet apparently he really did not mean that at all.

    I've said before I prefer the setting of the Polity, as whilst the books are not as inventive, it seems more self aware that there are some f*cked up elements to being run by Minds.
    Yes - there was a weird "But it's all justified by being run by super intelligences with perfect foresight, and it's the perfect society" thing.

    And many fans of the books have largely taken up that position - to question the Culture is Fascism, in their view.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    Certainly the frustrations didn't begin there, he's not liked NATO for a long time, but despite efforts at the time from many to portray it as his expert negotiation bluster, it seems to be the case that he really really does want to seize Greenland and cannot understand why people might object.

    This may just be the result of getting everything you wanted most of your life (apart from the 2020 election).
    Actually, I think it's easier for us all if we simply conclude "he's a crazy old fucker". There is an underlying logic to some of this stuff, but the obvious craziness now outweighs it all
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,980

    I think one of the real legacies of the second Trump term will be more and more countries will get nuclear weapons as America is no longer seen as a reliable ally.

    Trump: “We have 45,000 soldiers in South Korea to protect us from Kim Jong Un, who I get along with very well, as you know. Do you notice he said very nice things about me? He used to call Joe Biden a mentally retarded person... He was so nasty to Biden”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/2041241352847892796

    There is nothing to Trump outside of his narcissism.
    And his followers have swallowed the nonsense whole.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Sane or insane he appears to be very erratic at the very least, which has to be frustrating even some of his worshippers. I mean, Biden was losing it but move him about from place to place and keep him mostly quiet and it can be easy to think it is not as bad as you think, but with Trump he's never off the front pages.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 23,108
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    "You know who else didn't help us? South Korea didn't help us. We've got 45,000 soldiers in South Korea to protect them from Kim Jong Un, who I get along with very well. He said very nice things about me. He used to call Joe Biden a mentally retarded person."


    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2041223186784665861?s=20

    South Koreans are just about the most America-loving people on earth. He is deliberately destroying all the USA's most valuable alliances. And he's doing this because he likes the leader of North Korea???

    Taking him at face value he genuinely gets swayed by people saying nice things to him, and that is worth more than decades of alliances. It's an odd, odd approach even for a narcissist, if it is true.
    In that one 60 seconds of speech he manages to grievously insult South Korea, Japan and Australia, who are his three most important non-NATO allies in the world (with the questionable exception of Israel). Hilariously, if you like dark comedy, they are the countries MAGA Republicans have loudly been proclaiming as America's best new friends, now that the Europeans and Canada have been exposed as cowards and chancers

    Only Trump has just binned them off, too. Where next, America?
    Russia and North Korea I guess.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,588
    Cookie said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Lovely! Reminds me of a shot I took up by Luss a while back :


    That is beautiful. What a fantastic light. Where is Luss? I tries Google maps and it suggested Alexandria, but that doesn't seem right.
    It's on Loch Lomond about half an hour from Glasgow on the A82.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,170

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Great photo.

    It's got me trying to work out where on the Yorkshire coast you can see the sun setting across a bay like that. I'm guessing Cayton Bay between Scarborough and Filey?
    Thanks! It's from the pier at Whitby - which juts vaguely north into the North Sea - facing west off the pier.
    I haven't been here for about 20 years and I am absolutely loving it. I've nipped out for to explore the available pubs - they are far better than I remember - I'm in tge Esk Vaults, which is splendid - but a little dead on a Monday night. I'd quite like a full on goth pub for the full Whitby experience.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 864
    edited April 6
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Because if you are an elected official, and you oppose Trump, you will get primaried and lose your job.

    You will also likely get harassed and bullied and threatened.

    The people removing him from office, i.e. Vance and half the cabinet, would risk being assassinated by the MAGA faithful.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147
    I have a daily call with American colleagues. One of them was on vacation last week. He got back today and asked why the lead story on the news site he just opened was "The 25th Amendment". The idea that the Mad King is, well, mad is breaking containment I think.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Sane or insane he appears to be very erratic at the very least, which has to be frustrating even some of his worshippers. I mean, Biden was losing it but move him about from place to place and keep him mostly quiet and it can be easy to think it is not as bad as you think, but with Trump he's never off the front pages.
    Yes. Biden's dementia is more like my mum's, it seems, and Trump's is more like @MarqueeMark's Nobel prize winning mum's

    Neither should hold the most powerful office on the planet
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    Gaussian said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    Taking him at face value he genuinely gets swayed by people saying nice things to him

    Only if he remembers
    That's why experienced Trump whisperers also give him
    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Because if you are an elected official, and you oppose Trump, you will get primaried and lose your job.

    You will also likely get harassed and bullied and threatened.

    The people removing him from office, i.e. Vance and half the cabinet, would risk being assassinated by the MAGA faithful.
    They'd never act. Maybe after the next phase of Iran - some kind of 'deal' which at least pauses active operations - they can persuade him to take a nice long golfing holiday to celebrate, enough time for everyone to shore up their self belief that he remains what he used to be.

    Rather than an 80 year old man who was already capricious getting increasingly so.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,975
    Cookie said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Lovely! Reminds me of a shot I took up by Luss a while back :


    That is beautiful. What a fantastic light. Where is Luss? I tries Google maps and it suggested Alexandria, but that doesn't seem right.
    A little further north from the Scottish town of Alexandria - though not by much : https://maps.app.goo.gl/uohDyQmUM8SEaMuq6

    On the west side of Loch Lomond. The train doesn't stop there - but it's a very nice line to take in the views if you want a relaxing trip.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Great photo.

    It's got me trying to work out where on the Yorkshire coast you can see the sun setting across a bay like that. I'm guessing Cayton Bay between Scarborough and Filey?
    Thanks! It's from the pier at Whitby - which juts vaguely north into the North Sea - facing west off the pier.
    I haven't been here for about 20 years and I am absolutely loving it. I've nipped out for to explore the available pubs - they are far better than I remember - I'm in tge Esk Vaults, which is splendid - but a little dead on a Monday night. I'd quite like a full on goth pub for the full Whitby experience.
    Enjoy one of Whitby's 50 or so fish and chip shops.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,147
    kle4 said:

    Trump he's never off the front pages.

    Posted on this site months ago

    @rottenborough

    February 7

    "Brian Stelter posted a December 9, 2017, quote from the New York Times:

    "Before taking office, Mr. Trump told top aides to think of each presidential day as an episode in a television show in which he vanquishes rivals."

    Stelter wrote: “I think about this quote a lot.” "

    Heather Richardson email - 'Letters from an American'


    Which is why every time Trump disappears (to hospital) for 3 days speculation runs wild.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,610
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Great photo.

    It's got me trying to work out where on the Yorkshire coast you can see the sun setting across a bay like that. I'm guessing Cayton Bay between Scarborough and Filey?
    Thanks! It's from the pier at Whitby - which juts vaguely north into the North Sea - facing west off the pier.
    I haven't been here for about 20 years and I am absolutely loving it. I've nipped out for to explore the available pubs - they are far better than I remember - I'm in tge Esk Vaults, which is splendid - but a little dead on a Monday night. I'd quite like a full on goth pub for the full Whitby experience.
    Was in Whitby a couple of years ago when the weather was perfectly lovely apart from one day when we went to see the Abbey where a thick mist enveloped everything and gave it a really cool proper Dracula atmosphere.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    edited April 6
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Sane or insane he appears to be very erratic at the very least, which has to be frustrating even some of his worshippers. I mean, Biden was losing it but move him about from place to place and keep him mostly quiet and it can be easy to think it is not as bad as you think, but with Trump he's never off the front pages.
    Yes. Biden's dementia is more like my mum's, it seems, and Trump's is more like @MarqueeMark's Nobel prize winning mum's

    Neither should hold the most powerful office on the planet
    If Trump thought he had already won the Nobel Peace Prize then quite a lot of 2026 would have gone differently.

    I am a little surprised he hasn't already set up the Trump Prize, it feels like the sort of thing he would love in terms of legacy.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601
    And more:

    "Trump to the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs: "How many men did you send altogether, approximately, for the operation?"

    Caine: "Uhhh, I'd love to keep that a secret, Mr. President"

    Trump: "OK, well, we are. But I will tell you -- the number, I'll keep it a secret, but it was hundreds.""

    https://x.com/josh_wingrove/status/2041215759431393378?s=20
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    Nigelb said:

    I think one of the real legacies of the second Trump term will be more and more countries will get nuclear weapons as America is no longer seen as a reliable ally.

    Trump: “We have 45,000 soldiers in South Korea to protect us from Kim Jong Un, who I get along with very well, as you know. Do you notice he said very nice things about me? He used to call Joe Biden a mentally retarded person... He was so nasty to Biden”

    https://x.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/2041241352847892796

    There is nothing to Trump outside of his narcissism.
    And his followers have swallowed the nonsense whole.
    They used to include people who pretended, as they'd be primaried out if they didn't.

    Now they are true believers, and even if he backs their primary opponent and they lose they don't dare criticise.

    It's impressive, in a way, the hold he gathered over the party, particularly in a system which is not easy for a single leader to dominate so totally in.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,665
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    Certainly the frustrations didn't begin there, he's not liked NATO for a long time, but despite efforts at the time from many to portray it as his expert negotiation bluster, it seems to be the case that he really really does want to seize Greenland and cannot understand why people might object.

    This may just be the result of getting everything you wanted most of your life (apart from the 2020 election).
    Actually, I think it's easier for us all if we simply conclude "he's a crazy old fucker". There is an underlying logic to some of this stuff, but the obvious craziness now outweighs it all
    Mary Trump's 2020 biography "Too Much and Never Enough" explains it all.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,170
    ohnotnow said:

    Cookie said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Lovely! Reminds me of a shot I took up by Luss a while back :


    That is beautiful. What a fantastic light. Where is Luss? I tries Google maps and it suggested Alexandria, but that doesn't seem right.
    A little further north from the Scottish town of Alexandria - though not by much : https://maps.app.goo.gl/uohDyQmUM8SEaMuq6

    On the west side of Loch Lomond. The train doesn't stop there - but it's a very nice line to take in the views if you want a relaxing trip.
    Alexandria makes sense now. I feel a fool!
  • state_go_awaystate_go_away Posts: 5,886
    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Great photo.

    It's got me trying to work out where on the Yorkshire coast you can see the sun setting across a bay like that. I'm guessing Cayton Bay between Scarborough and Filey?
    Thanks! It's from the pier at Whitby - which juts vaguely north into the North Sea - facing west off the pier.
    I haven't been here for about 20 years and I am absolutely loving it. I've nipped out for to explore the available pubs - they are far better than I remember - I'm in tge Esk Vaults, which is splendid - but a little dead on a Monday night. I'd quite like a full on goth pub for the full Whitby experience.
    Enjoy one of Whitby's 50 or so fish and chip shops.
    Every two years I have a week alone in the North Yorkshire coast just to relax . Tend to base myself in Scarborough but go to Whitby for a day to visit the church on the steps and the abbey
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 59,202
    Scott_xP said:

    kle4 said:

    Trump he's never off the front pages.

    Posted on this site months ago

    @rottenborough

    February 7

    "Brian Stelter posted a December 9, 2017, quote from the New York Times:

    "Before taking office, Mr. Trump told top aides to think of each presidential day as an episode in a television show in which he vanquishes rivals."

    Stelter wrote: “I think about this quote a lot.” "

    Heather Richardson email - 'Letters from an American'


    Which is why every time Trump disappears (to hospital) for 3 days speculation runs wild.
    Let's hope the "vanquishing rivals" bit doesn't actually kick in.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 13,042
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Sane or insane he appears to be very erratic at the very least, which has to be frustrating even some of his worshippers. I mean, Biden was losing it but move him about from place to place and keep him mostly quiet and it can be easy to think it is not as bad as you think, but with Trump he's never off the front pages.
    Yes. Biden's dementia is more like my mum's, it seems, and Trump's is more like @MarqueeMark's Nobel prize winning mum's

    Neither should hold the most powerful office on the planet
    If Trump thought he had already won the Nobel Peace Prize then quite a lot of 2026 would have gone differently.

    I am a little surprised he hasn't already set up the Trump Prize, it feels like the sort of thing he would love in terms of legacy.
    Because it’s a little infra dig to win your own prize
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,540
    Is it Vance who will have to call the men in white coats?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,943
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    My mother had it. She appeared quite lucid at times. Could hold a rational conversation.

    Then would berate me for not congratularing her on her winning a Nobel prize.

    Not peace, I don't think.

    She lived in a world of her own creation.

    I see echoes of that with Trump.

    Sympathies, but interesting insight. Thankyou

    Dementia varies so much, doesn't it? I saw my poor old mum over Easter, very frail and 87 and on her way out, and she too has dementia. But with her it's polite and sad and she just has no short term memory and asks the same questions five times in half an hour. Yet she remains very polite and kind and sweet, which actually makes it somewhat more painful, in a way

    I wouldn't put her in the Oval Office, if I am brutally honest
    Right now I would in a heart beat.
    My mother in law just screeches most of the time and has almost no language, like a 1 year old. It is terrible.

    She'd still make a better President. She isn't at all interested in stealing oil or bombing civilians.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 23,108
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Sane or insane he appears to be very erratic at the very least, which has to be frustrating even some of his worshippers. I mean, Biden was losing it but move him about from place to place and keep him mostly quiet and it can be easy to think it is not as bad as you think, but with Trump he's never off the front pages.
    Yes. Biden's dementia is more like my mum's, it seems, and Trump's is more like @MarqueeMark's Nobel prize winning mum's

    Neither should hold the most powerful office on the planet
    If Trump thought he had already won the Nobel Peace Prize then quite a lot of 2026 would have gone differently.

    I am a little surprised he hasn't already set up the Trump Prize, it feels like the sort of thing he would love in terms of legacy.
    He's not interested in giving prizes to anyone else. Remember when he said recently he didn't like being around successful people, because he didn't want to listen to their success stories. He wanted people to listen to his success stories.

    He's that self-centred.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601
    geoffw said:

    Is it Vance who will have to call the men in white coats?

    It should be. Vance's whole shtick is - or was - "we will never again wage pointless Middle Eastern wars"

    Trump is humiliating him, with every ludicrous gaffe and fumble, and Vance is smart. And the Veep
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,112
    Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    "You know who else didn't help us? South Korea didn't help us. We've got 45,000 soldiers in South Korea to protect them from Kim Jong Un, who I get along with very well. He said very nice things about me. He used to call Joe Biden a mentally retarded person."


    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2041223186784665861?s=20

    South Koreans are just about the most America-loving people on earth. He is deliberately destroying all the USA's most valuable alliances. And he's doing this because he likes the leader of North Korea???

    Taking him at face value he genuinely gets swayed by people saying nice things to him, and that is worth more than decades of alliances. It's an odd, odd approach even for a narcissist, if it is true.
    In that one 60 seconds of speech he manages to grievously insult South Korea, Japan and Australia, who are his three most important non-NATO allies in the world (with the questionable exception of Israel). Hilariously, if you like dark comedy, they are the countries MAGA Republicans have loudly been proclaiming as America's best new friends, now that the Europeans and Canada have been exposed as cowards and chancers

    Only Trump has just binned them off, too. Where next, America?
    If anything like normality survives until more normal times return, the readjustment between the USA and other nations is going to be an interesting period to witness.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,170

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Anyway - look at this nice picture of a sunset over the Yorkshire coast. A day in the North York Moors. The light is fantastic.

    Great photo.

    It's got me trying to work out where on the Yorkshire coast you can see the sun setting across a bay like that. I'm guessing Cayton Bay between Scarborough and Filey?
    Thanks! It's from the pier at Whitby - which juts vaguely north into the North Sea - facing west off the pier.
    I haven't been here for about 20 years and I am absolutely loving it. I've nipped out for to explore the available pubs - they are far better than I remember - I'm in tge Esk Vaults, which is splendid - but a little dead on a Monday night. I'd quite like a full on goth pub for the full Whitby experience.
    Was in Whitby a couple of years ago when the weather was perfectly lovely apart from one day when we went to see the Abbey where a thick mist enveloped everything and gave it a really cool proper Dracula atmosphere.
    On a mildly political note, passing through Ruswarp I was interested to note one house flying the Israeli flag and another - one of several flying Union Jacks - whose intentions were clarified by the legend 'Stop the Boats' across its central stripe.
    I mean, I broadly agree with the sentiment of the latter, and my views on Israel are nuanced - but you wouldn't get away with expressing either of these views in the liberal urban Britain I am more familiar with.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,980
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    The Dems didn't exactly help America by conspiring to hide Biden's equally obvious dementia, for at least three years. Indeed they tried to get him re-elected while knowing he was gaga

    And there were plenty of fools on here happy to defend Biden with "oh he's got a stutter", etc etc

    Anyway Trump is now the clear and present danger. I believe my psychiatrist friend, now, about the frontotemporal dementia shit, Trump has declined a lot quite quickly. He has good and bad days but more bad than good, now

    Eeesh., Just the man you want in charge of the American nuclear arsenal during a stupid war with insane mullahs
    Can you explain how Biden has apparently recovered from this obvious dementia ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    Scott_xP said:

    I have a daily call with American colleagues. One of them was on vacation last week. He got back today and asked why the lead story on the news site he just opened was "The 25th Amendment". The idea that the Mad King is, well, mad is breaking containment I think.

    I fear it will return to some kind of normality once the war is not top topic every day.

    Democratic partisans are frothing at the mouth (not without some cause!), and there's nothing the GOP partisans won't excuse - and going against him isn't going to help them any going into the midterms (that was part of the problem for any neverTrumpers all along).

    So they will talk up whatever stops conflict, suggest it was all a bit overblown, and that anything a bit odd was just dramatic style.
  • GaussianGaussian Posts: 864
    geoffw said:

    Is it Vance who will have to call the men in white coats?

    Him and half the cabinet. And if Trump opposes it, which of course he will, two thirds of the House and the Senate. In other words, it's even more difficult than impeachment.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 102,126
    Leon said:

    geoffw said:

    Is it Vance who will have to call the men in white coats?

    It should be. Vance's whole shtick is - or was - "we will never again wage pointless Middle Eastern wars"

    Trump is humiliating him, with every ludicrous gaffe and fumble, and Vance is smart. And the Veep
    Rubio's odds of getting the nomination rising?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,980
    geoffw said:

    Is it Vance who will have to call the men in white coats?

    Only with the support of over half the cabinet.
    How do you imagine a Hegseth or an RFK will vote on that ?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,601
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    The Dems didn't exactly help America by conspiring to hide Biden's equally obvious dementia, for at least three years. Indeed they tried to get him re-elected while knowing he was gaga

    And there were plenty of fools on here happy to defend Biden with "oh he's got a stutter", etc etc

    Anyway Trump is now the clear and present danger. I believe my psychiatrist friend, now, about the frontotemporal dementia shit, Trump has declined a lot quite quickly. He has good and bad days but more bad than good, now

    Eeesh., Just the man you want in charge of the American nuclear arsenal during a stupid war with insane mullahs
    Can you explain how Biden has apparently recovered from this obvious dementia ?
    Yeah, Joe Biden is just fine, Stop being a nitwit. You got it wrong. It happens


    "Dementia patient Joe Biden is on The View mumbling incoherently.

    Democrats gaslighted us and knowingly covered for his obvious cognitive decline for 3.5 years until they coordinated a coup against him to oust him.

    Never forget."

    https://x.com/libsoftiktok/status/1920526785717961172?s=20
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 22,453
    DavidL said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    And more

    "NOW - Trump says that his frustrations with NATO "all began with, if you want to know the truth, Greenland. We want Greenland. They don't want to give it to us, and I said, 'bye bye!'""

    https://x.com/disclosetv/status/2041223980787380619?s=20


    OK I think he really does have this fronto-temporal dementia

    I mean, he's clearly insane. I'm baffled that thry don't appear, institutionally, to have noticed this. We had Liz Truss and she was, by these standards, only mildly eccentric, and she was removed in about a month.
    Guess what? The American Constitution is simply not fit for purpose. Who'd have guessed?
    Back in the day, when The West Wing etc was all the rage, I knew a fair few folk who would bang on endlessly about how great the US system of government and all its checks and balances etc were. I was never convinced. Seems I was right, and they had all been sucked in by a TV representation of a left liberal dream.
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