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Labour leads Reform by 8% (on preferred choice) – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 13,036
edited 8:57AM in General
Labour leads Reform by 8% (on preferred choice) – politicalbetting.com

If this sort of lead becomes consistent then Labour might be more optimistic that they could enough tactical anti-Reform votes but we’re a long way from that

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558
    edited 9:02AM
    Labour are having a terrible war. Nigel's isn't going much better. Coutinho, Kemiand Ric Holden are having a good fuel crisis war.

    As the whole fiasco unfolds Kemi can also explain how she cautioned Starmer on his adjacency to Trump.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,438
    Well if the choice is forced between almost anyone and Farage then almost anyone is better by default.

    Thankfully we don't live in such a forced choice universe.

    Sadly even with our many parties, I don't see any competent ones.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,131

    Labour are having a terrible war

    Starmer should have thought of that before he started it. If only we had the calm, reflective authority of Farage or Badenoch in charge it would never have happened.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558
    edited 9:05AM

    Labour are having a terrible war

    Starmer should have thought of that before he started it. If only we had the calm, reflective authority of Farage or Badenoch in charge it would never have happened.
    Farage has been quiet, but Kemi hasn't put a foot wrong according to PB.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558
    maxh said:

    Labour are having a terrible war

    Starmer should have thought of that before he started it. If only we had the calm, reflective authority of Farage or Badenoch in charge it would never have happened.
    Farage has been quiet, but Kemi hasn't put a foot wrong on PB.
    Kemi is on PB? Ah, so that's who Brixian really is.
    My poor grammar deserves a flag.
  • Badenoch overall is doing a good job. But the war cheering was a rookie error when almost everyone here could see what a disaster it was going to be.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,131

    maxh said:

    Labour are having a terrible war

    Starmer should have thought of that before he started it. If only we had the calm, reflective authority of Farage or Badenoch in charge it would never have happened.
    Farage has been quiet, but Kemi hasn't put a foot wrong on PB.
    Kemi is on PB? Ah, so that's who Brixian really is.
    My poor grammar deserves a flag.
    Does she want a Mexican one or the Union Jack?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,443

    Labour are having a terrible war

    Starmer should have thought of that before he started it. If only we had the calm, reflective authority of Farage or Badenoch in charge it would never have happened.
    Kemi has had the worst campaign. Her initial and impulsive "Oh What a Lovely War!" response was a result, like almost all the stupid shit she does, of being scared of being out-Fukked on a policy position. Farage's idiotic bellicosity doesn't hurt him as much because licking Trump's Florsheims is exactly what you'd expect of him.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,840
    edited 9:15AM
    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)
  • Also Pb I would really suggest getting on Starmer saying past May elections.

    Yet another article says he’s safe.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,522
    I have returned for 5 minutes after a month away and find for once you are discussing a serious topic - Marmalade.

    Marmalade should not need labelling because the only decent proper marmalade (including the posh stuff) is home made. The rest is rubbish.

    Top tip I found this year for January's yearly production: Black treacle. I am always trying to find ways to make it more bitter and black treacle is the latest attempt.

    Also for those of you on statins and who might eat lots of the really strong stuff a little known fact is the concentration of furanocoumarins in Seville oranges is similar to Grapefruit and the highest concentration by an order of magnitude is in the peel and pith, so if you are an addict of strong marmalade you might want to check which statin you are on.

    OK after that pearl of wisdom I an off again now until the locals maybe.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 16,398

    Well if the choice is forced between almost anyone and Farage then almost anyone is better by default.

    Thankfully we don't live in such a forced choice universe.

    Sadly even with our many parties, I don't see any competent ones.

    Fair enough but that's part of the democratic process where you argue within a party for the policies you think will work but if you are unable to persuade the party or the wider electorate, that isn't a definition of "competence" or otherwise.

    Trying to govern an extraordiarily complex and multi-layered population of nearly 70 million people isn't easy and even more so in an era of incredible demographic, technological and social changes and challenges.

    I wouldn't want to do it - those who do, however, and here I do agree with you, need to have a wider conception of what they are trying to do and be more resolute in pursuing an objective which they need to define clearly. It may not be an objective you or I support and the method of achieving it may not be, in our view, the most appropriate and that's part of political discourse and argument but the current administration seems not to have a broad sense of what kind of government they want to be and what kind of society they wish to see evolve.

    That may be how you define "competence" (it's not a bad start).

    MY view is ideas seem not to be thought through to logical and definitive conclusions and in particular consequences are not considered. I don't know if it's the old post hoc ergo propter hoc at work but in a Government replete with advisers and thinkers, there should be someone who reasons round this or rather has the response lines ready when the criticisms come.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 23,036
    I'd like to thank Trump for launching the war now known as Trump's Folly which has resulted in this catchy little musical number on one of Zuckerberg's hellholes.

    https://www.instagram.com/reel/DWnsE--DThr/

    It almost makes it worthwhile.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558

    Badenoch overall is doing a good job. But the war cheering was a rookie error when almost everyone here could see what a disaster it was going to be.

    I suspect she can successfully change the narrative and suggest not only was she against the war from the start and would have refused UK bases to be used but she would have gone full Spain and stopped all US use of UK territory bases.

    That is the beauty of opposition. Everyone remembers Iraq and how the Tories cautioned Blair not to involve the UK. Even it that wasn't entirely true.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 27,131
    kjh said:

    I have returned for 5 minutes after a month away and find for once you are discussing a serious topic - Marmalade.

    Marmalade should not need labelling because the only decent proper marmalade (including the posh stuff) is home made. The rest is rubbish.

    Top tip I found this year for January's yearly production: Black treacle. I am always trying to find ways to make it more bitter and black treacle is the latest attempt.

    Also for those of you on statins and who might eat lots of the really strong stuff a little known fact is the concentration of furanocoumarins in Seville oranges is similar to Grapefruit and the highest concentration by an order of magnitude is in the peel and pith, so if you are an addict of strong marmalade you might want to check which statin you are on.

    OK after that pearl of wisdom I an off again now until the locals maybe.

    What is it with labelling on orange jam? First they came for the golliwogs, now they come for the wording.....
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,898
    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    A bit like a fash version of Corbyn?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,501
    Dura_Ace said:

    Labour are having a terrible war

    Starmer should have thought of that before he started it. If only we had the calm, reflective authority of Farage or Badenoch in charge it would never have happened.
    Kemi has had the worst campaign. Her initial and impulsive "Oh What a Lovely War!" response was a result, like almost all the stupid shit she does, of being scared of being out-Fukked on a policy position. Farage's idiotic bellicosity doesn't hurt him as much because licking Trump's Florsheims is exactly what you'd expect of him.
    Thanks for expanding my knowledge, as your posts frequently do, with the help of google.
    Today I've learnt what 'Florsheims' are. My life is slightly more complete.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,576

    Dura_Ace said:

    Labour are having a terrible war

    Starmer should have thought of that before he started it. If only we had the calm, reflective authority of Farage or Badenoch in charge it would never have happened.
    Kemi has had the worst campaign. Her initial and impulsive "Oh What a Lovely War!" response was a result, like almost all the stupid shit she does, of being scared of being out-Fukked on a policy position. Farage's idiotic bellicosity doesn't hurt him as much because licking Trump's Florsheims is exactly what you'd expect of him.
    Thanks for expanding my knowledge, as your posts frequently do, with the help of google.
    Today I've learnt what 'Florsheims' are. My life is slightly more complete.
    I googled it too: disappointingly vanilla for a Dura post.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,840
    kjh said:

    I have returned for 5 minutes after a month away and find for once you are discussing a serious topic - Marmalade.

    Marmalade should not need labelling because the only decent proper marmalade (including the posh stuff) is home made. The rest is rubbish.

    Top tip I found this year for January's yearly production: Black treacle. I am always trying to find ways to make it more bitter and black treacle is the latest attempt.

    Also for those of you on statins and who might eat lots of the really strong stuff a little known fact is the concentration of furanocoumarins in Seville oranges is similar to Grapefruit and the highest concentration by an order of magnitude is in the peel and pith, so if you are an addict of strong marmalade you might want to check which statin you are on.

    OK after that pearl of wisdom I an off again now until the locals maybe.

    Chuckleberries will make your marmalade more tart. Except it will be jam. Have you tried limes in marmalade?

    Bloody Peruvian bears, coming over here eating our Marmalade Sandwiches.

    https://youtu.be/6DafuN7wxuM?t=1174
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 62,104

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    I think it’s a bit early to claim the end of a party that has been consistently leading polls over a long period.

    I don’t want them to be in government. But this reminds me of people calling “the end of Trump” for the 37th time.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558
    Dura_Ace said:

    Labour are having a terrible war

    Starmer should have thought of that before he started it. If only we had the calm, reflective authority of Farage or Badenoch in charge it would never have happened.
    Kemi has had the worst campaign. Her initial and impulsive "Oh What a Lovely War!" response was a result, like almost all the stupid shit she does, of being scared of being out-Fukked on a policy position. Farage's idiotic bellicosity doesn't hurt him as much because licking Trump's Florsheims is exactly what you'd expect of him.
    She can always pretend she was anti-war from the get go. No one was listening to her anyway.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,030

    Dura_Ace said:

    Labour are having a terrible war

    Starmer should have thought of that before he started it. If only we had the calm, reflective authority of Farage or Badenoch in charge it would never have happened.
    Kemi has had the worst campaign. Her initial and impulsive "Oh What a Lovely War!" response was a result, like almost all the stupid shit she does, of being scared of being out-Fukked on a policy position. Farage's idiotic bellicosity doesn't hurt him as much because licking Trump's Florsheims is exactly what you'd expect of him.
    Thanks for expanding my knowledge, as your posts frequently do, with the help of google.
    Today I've learnt what 'Florsheims' are. My life is slightly more complete.
    I googled it too: disappointingly vanilla for a Dura post.
    Yes; I'd assumed it was a brand of underpants!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    I think it’s a bit early to claim the end of a party that has been consistently leading polls over a long period.

    I don’t want them to be in government. But this reminds me of people calling “the end of Trump” for the 37th time.
    47th time?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,102
    In terms of forced choice, Reform and Farage will eventually presumably conclude the mission to 'destroy' the Tories is destined to fail and they'll need Tory tactical support (and the consequent vice versa) to stand a chance given the weighty Progressive Mass they face.
    How prepared Tories are to accomodate that is another question entirely. Speaking as someone now rewedded to the Tory cause, given how the likes of Farage and Yusuf have talked about Conservatives they can do one.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,753

    Badenoch overall is doing a good job. But the war cheering was a rookie error when almost everyone here could see what a disaster it was going to be.

    A ridiculous post. If you are trying to gain credibility by seeming to be even handed you have to start by saying someting credible. Try imitating DA. Badenoch is crap and if someone who is a Labour voter can't see it then you should be a Tory voter.

    (Roger. No more Mr Nice Guy)
  • Ed M to approve the North Sea oil project
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558

    In terms of forced choice, Reform and Farage will eventually presumably conclude the mission to 'destroy' the Tories is destined to fail and they'll need Tory tactical support (and the consequent vice versa) to stand a chance given the weighty Progressive Mass they face.
    How prepared Tories are to accomodate that is another question entirely. Speaking as someone now rewedded to the Tory cause, given how the likes of Farage and Yusuf have talked about Conservatives they can do one.

    It is important the Conservative name survives. It is never again going to be a pro European, one nation party so you might as well embrace the racism and reverse takeover Reform after the next election from within the medium sized tent of Government.
  • Roger said:

    Badenoch overall is doing a good job. But the war cheering was a rookie error when almost everyone here could see what a disaster it was going to be.

    A ridiculous post. If you are trying to gain credibility by seeming to be even handed you have to start by saying someting credible. Try imitating DA. Badenoch is crap and if someone who is a Labour voter can't see it then you should be a Tory voter.

    (Roger. No more Mr Nice Guy)
    But she’s doing nothing really differently than SKS did. Constructive opposition. War was her first big error.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,522
    edited 9:40AM
    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    I have returned for 5 minutes after a month away and find for once you are discussing a serious topic - Marmalade.

    Marmalade should not need labelling because the only decent proper marmalade (including the posh stuff) is home made. The rest is rubbish.

    Top tip I found this year for January's yearly production: Black treacle. I am always trying to find ways to make it more bitter and black treacle is the latest attempt.

    Also for those of you on statins and who might eat lots of the really strong stuff a little known fact is the concentration of furanocoumarins in Seville oranges is similar to Grapefruit and the highest concentration by an order of magnitude is in the peel and pith, so if you are an addict of strong marmalade you might want to check which statin you are on.

    OK after that pearl of wisdom I an off again now until the locals maybe.

    Chuckleberries will make your marmalade more tart. Except it will be jam. Have you tried limes in marmalade?

    Bloody Peruvian bears, coming over here eating our Marmalade Sandwiches.

    https://youtu.be/6DafuN7wxuM?t=1174
    It is not the tartness I am trying to get (although I really love the tart taste as well) it is an extra bitter taste I am after. I have previously tried burning the mixture a bit, but that seems to stop the pectin working so you get a soft toffee texture rather than a set marmalade. Lovely though difficult to spread. I have also tried using molasses which works. Then I saw that Pru Leith adds black treacle so I gave that a go, but doubling the quantity she puts in.

    I do like stuff that has either a tart or bitter taste. I have a Damson tree and a Damson crumble with no added sugar in the fruit and molasses in the crumble is lovely.

    PS I haven't used limes, but I do put 2 lemons (peel and juice) in with 1 kg of Seville oranges.
  • Oh great James Dyson is saying we need to try fracking again.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,102

    In terms of forced choice, Reform and Farage will eventually presumably conclude the mission to 'destroy' the Tories is destined to fail and they'll need Tory tactical support (and the consequent vice versa) to stand a chance given the weighty Progressive Mass they face.
    How prepared Tories are to accomodate that is another question entirely. Speaking as someone now rewedded to the Tory cause, given how the likes of Farage and Yusuf have talked about Conservatives they can do one.

    It is important the Conservative name survives. It is never again going to be a pro European, one nation party so you might as well embrace the racism and reverse takeover Reform after the next election from within the medium sized tent of Government.
    No thanks.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,753

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,750
    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I thought Frost wanted to leave Europe? Why is he ditching the original Brexit of the Church of England for Rome?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558

    In terms of forced choice, Reform and Farage will eventually presumably conclude the mission to 'destroy' the Tories is destined to fail and they'll need Tory tactical support (and the consequent vice versa) to stand a chance given the weighty Progressive Mass they face.
    How prepared Tories are to accomodate that is another question entirely. Speaking as someone now rewedded to the Tory cause, given how the likes of Farage and Yusuf have talked about Conservatives they can do one.

    It is important the Conservative name survives. It is never again going to be a pro European, one nation party so you might as well embrace the racism and reverse takeover Reform after the next election from within the medium sized tent of Government.
    No thanks.
    It is the name that wants to be saved for posterity. You have already lost the post-Thatcherites and the Wets.

    Nigel Farage Conservatives has a ring to it.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,025

    Oh great James Dyson is saying we need to try fracking again.

    James Fracking Dyson
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,025
    edited 9:49AM

    Ed M to approve the North Sea oil project

    Was it that Matt cartoon that finally changed his mind.

    Given the North Sea is largely irrelevant to this year’s crisis, Labour are sensible if they choose to scrape off the barnacle rather than wasting energy trying to explain why the North Sea is irrelevant to this year’s crisis.

    They now need to double down on renewables, transmission and storage to scrape off a bit of the Green Party barnacle. The Lib Dems gave them a generous free hit yesterday with their irresponsible fuel duty policy.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,102

    In terms of forced choice, Reform and Farage will eventually presumably conclude the mission to 'destroy' the Tories is destined to fail and they'll need Tory tactical support (and the consequent vice versa) to stand a chance given the weighty Progressive Mass they face.
    How prepared Tories are to accomodate that is another question entirely. Speaking as someone now rewedded to the Tory cause, given how the likes of Farage and Yusuf have talked about Conservatives they can do one.

    It is important the Conservative name survives. It is never again going to be a pro European, one nation party so you might as well embrace the racism and reverse takeover Reform after the next election from within the medium sized tent of Government.
    No thanks.
    It is the name that wants to be saved for posterity. You have already lost the post-Thatcherites and the Wets.

    Nigel Farage Conservatives has a ring to it.
    Like i said, no thanks.
  • MelonB said:

    Ed M to approve the North Sea oil project

    Was it that Matt cartoon that finally changed his mind.

    Given the North Sea is largely irrelevant to this year’s crisis, Labour are sensible if they choose to scrape off the barnacle rather than wasting energy trying to explain why the North Sea is irrelevant to this year’s crisis.

    They now need to double down on renewables, transmission and storage to scrape off a bit of the Green Party barnacle. The Lib Dems gave them a generous free hit yesterday with their irresponsible fuel duty policy.
    I’m not saying they are suddenly a supreme electoral force but their political strategy has definitely improved since McSweeney went.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,030
    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    I have returned for 5 minutes after a month away and find for once you are discussing a serious topic - Marmalade.

    Marmalade should not need labelling because the only decent proper marmalade (including the posh stuff) is home made. The rest is rubbish.

    Top tip I found this year for January's yearly production: Black treacle. I am always trying to find ways to make it more bitter and black treacle is the latest attempt.

    Also for those of you on statins and who might eat lots of the really strong stuff a little known fact is the concentration of furanocoumarins in Seville oranges is similar to Grapefruit and the highest concentration by an order of magnitude is in the peel and pith, so if you are an addict of strong marmalade you might want to check which statin you are on.

    OK after that pearl of wisdom I an off again now until the locals maybe.

    Chuckleberries will make your marmalade more tart. Except it will be jam. Have you tried limes in marmalade?

    Bloody Peruvian bears, coming over here eating our Marmalade Sandwiches.

    https://youtu.be/6DafuN7wxuM?t=1174
    It is not the tartness I am trying to get (although I really love the tart taste as well) it is an extra bitter taste I am after. I have previously tried burning the mixture a bit, but that seems to stop the pectin working so you get a soft toffee texture rather than a set marmalade. Lovely though difficult to spread. I have also tried using molasses which works. Then I saw that Pru Leith adds black treacle so I gave that a go, but doubling the quantity she puts in.

    I do like stuff that has either a tart or bitter taste. I have a Damson tree and a Damson crumble with no added sugar in the fruit and molasses in the crumble is lovely.

    PS I haven't used limes, but I do put 2 lemons (peel and juice) in with 1 kg of Seville oranges.
    My mother didn't do a lot of cooking; she was a self-employed pharmacist running her own pharmacy, so she didn't have much time. However she always made marmalade in the early Autumn and my father said he knew she was getting old (she was in her late 80's) when one autumn she said "she didn't feel up to making marmalade this year"!

    Oddly enough I've never liked the stuff; I've tried a few sorts and really don't like any of them. I'm not really that keen on jam, either.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,624

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I thought Frost wanted to leave Europe? Why is he ditching the original Brexit of the Church of England for Rome?
    Is the Vatican in the EU?
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,025
    edited 9:51AM

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I thought Frost wanted to leave Europe? Why is he ditching the original Brexit of the Church of England for Rome?
    Same question has been asked of JD Vance. Perhaps Frost also claims he loves Europe and wants to return it to its mediaeval theocratic apogee.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,898

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    I think it’s a bit early to claim the end of a party that has been consistently leading polls over a long period.

    I don’t want them to be in government. But this reminds me of people calling “the end of Trump” for the 37th time.
    Early? They have been consistently declining in the polls now for months. And we have byelections plural to look at in terms of how people treat them.
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 17,025
    edited 9:53AM
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I thought Frost wanted to leave Europe? Why is he ditching the original Brexit of the Church of England for Rome?
    Is the Vatican in the EU?
    Gemini’s answer is amusing. They don’t meet the democratic criteria:

    “No, Vatican City is not part of the European Union (EU) or the European Economic Area (EEA). As a sovereign, theocratic, absolute monarchy, it does not meet the democratic criteria required for EU membership. However, it is deeply integrated through open borders with Italy, use of the euro, and special agreements”.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 19,750
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I thought Frost wanted to leave Europe? Why is he ditching the original Brexit of the Church of England for Rome?
    Is the Vatican in the EU?
    No... but it uses the Euro and is de facto in the Schengen area.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,898
    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    My take is that the war changes how people think. We need to make changes to the country, yes. But as inflation makes everyone noticeably poorer again, you don't pivot towards more radicalism and disruption.

    I expect recovery from the establishment parties.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,211
    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I've said if I were a Christian, I would choose to be a Catholic as confession would be perfect for me. Once a week I get the opportunity to brag about my sins, then all I have to do is say 100 Hail Marys and I'm forgiven.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,303
    MelonB said:

    Ed M to approve the North Sea oil project

    Was it that Matt cartoon that finally changed his mind.

    Given the North Sea is largely irrelevant to this year’s crisis, Labour are sensible if they choose to scrape off the barnacle rather than wasting energy trying to explain why the North Sea is irrelevant to this year’s crisis.

    They now need to double down on renewables, transmission and storage to scrape off a bit of the Green Party barnacle. The Lib Dems gave them a generous free hit yesterday with their irresponsible fuel duty policy.
    Totally this. That normally sensible people on PB are buying into the Mad Miliband, drill now to ease fuel shortages myth shows you do need to do selective pandering before tackling the real problem.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,494
    edited 9:58AM
    An extremely counterintuitive FT article on Trump’s tariffs

    https://www.ft.com/content/35f79237-630c-4b04-8e5a-57394ad2b2f6

    Says, against all expectations, they have been “remarkable”, a definite “success”, boosting output in the USA, aiding employment, etc. It adds that this has made economists look like idiots, and has “collapsed” economic orthodoxy


    “The past year has also proved as disruptive to the discipline of economics and the overconfidence of its most prominent practitioners as it has been to supply chains. The folly of tariffs was among their most deeply held beliefs, hard-coded into their models, proudly professed in every interview. Tariffs, they insisted, would lead to sharply higher inflation and much slower growth, a likely recession and millions of jobs lost. They would prompt retaliation and lead to appreciation of the dollar, crippling exporters and leading to further deindustrialisation.

    “But none of this happened. The dollar weakened. Countries came to the table rather than retaliating and reached agreements favourable to the US. Inflation slowed, logging an increase in the price level of 2.4 per cent over the past 12 months, as compared to 2.8 per cent for the previous year. Real GDP growth accelerated, up an annualised 2.9 per cent over the last three quarters of 2025, as compared to 2.5 per cent in 2024.”
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,840
    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    I have returned for 5 minutes after a month away and find for once you are discussing a serious topic - Marmalade.

    Marmalade should not need labelling because the only decent proper marmalade (including the posh stuff) is home made. The rest is rubbish.

    Top tip I found this year for January's yearly production: Black treacle. I am always trying to find ways to make it more bitter and black treacle is the latest attempt.

    Also for those of you on statins and who might eat lots of the really strong stuff a little known fact is the concentration of furanocoumarins in Seville oranges is similar to Grapefruit and the highest concentration by an order of magnitude is in the peel and pith, so if you are an addict of strong marmalade you might want to check which statin you are on.

    OK after that pearl of wisdom I an off again now until the locals maybe.

    Chuckleberries will make your marmalade more tart. Except it will be jam. Have you tried limes in marmalade?

    Bloody Peruvian bears, coming over here eating our Marmalade Sandwiches.

    https://youtu.be/6DafuN7wxuM?t=1174
    It is not the tartness I am trying to get (although I really love the tart taste as well) it is an extra bitter taste I am after. I have previously tried burning the mixture a bit, but that seems to stop the pectin working so you get a soft toffee texture rather than a set marmalade. Lovely though difficult to spread. I have also tried using molasses which works. Then I saw that Pru Leith adds black treacle so I gave that a go, but doubling the quantity she puts in.

    I do like stuff that has either a tart or bitter taste. I have a Damson tree and a Damson crumble with no added sugar in the fruit and molasses in the crumble is lovely.

    PS I haven't used limes, but I do put 2 lemons (peel and juice) in with 1 kg of Seville oranges.
    I have not used limes in marmalade, except eating the famous Roses Lime Marmalade, but I do find they add a sharpness to eg Thai recipes.

    I'm in trouble this morning because an extra box of Hello Fresh just arrived which I thought I had cancelled. I have a Two Person x Two Meal box which would do 5 or 6 meals for me, as a variation. So that is 5 extra meals to account for :sweat_smile: .

    I'll be switching back from one a fortnight to one a month, and adding the extra not removing them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,753

    Roger said:

    Badenoch overall is doing a good job. But the war cheering was a rookie error when almost everyone here could see what a disaster it was going to be.

    A ridiculous post. If you are trying to gain credibility by seeming to be even handed you have to start by saying someting credible. Try imitating DA. Badenoch is crap and if someone who is a Labour voter can't see it then you should be a Tory voter.

    (Roger. No more Mr Nice Guy)
    But she’s doing nothing really differently than SKS did. Constructive opposition. War was her first big error.
    The first big error out of one? Starmer is crap enough. If a LOTO can't score points when there is literally a madman leading the 'FREE WORLD' ................ when only 30% of his own country supports his madness......

    .........Even then she hasn't the political brain to score a single point........ It's an OPEN GOAL. She's F''''ing useless.

    What wouldn't you give for another Charlie Kennedy......
  • Leon said:

    An extremely counterintuitive FT article on Trump’s tariffs

    https://www.ft.com/content/35f79237-630c-4b04-8e5a-57394ad2b2f6

    Says, against all expectations, they have been “remarkable”, a definite “success”, boosting output in the USA, aiding employment, etc. It adds that this has made economists look like idiots, and has “collapsed” economic orthodoxy


    “The past year has also proved as disruptive to the discipline of economics and the overconfidence of its most prominent practitioners as it has been to supply chains. The folly of tariffs was among their most deeply held beliefs, hard-coded into their models, proudly professed in every interview. Tariffs, they insisted, would lead to sharply higher inflation and much slower growth, a likely recession and millions of jobs lost. They would prompt retaliation and lead to appreciation of the dollar, crippling exporters and leading to further deindustrialisation.

    “But none of this happened. The dollar weakened. Countries came to the table rather than retaliating and reached agreements favourable to the US. Inflation slowed, logging an increase in the price level of 2.4 per cent over the past 12 months, as compared to 2.8 per cent for the previous year. Real GDP growth accelerated, up an annualised 2.9 per cent over the last three quarters of 2025, as compared to 2.5 per cent in 2024.”

    You saw who wrote it, right ? And you've read the BTL comments ?

    The FT has had quite a collection of "guest" articles from MAGA cultists in the last few months. The most recent Bessent one was my favourite, I think.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,851

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I thought Frost wanted to leave Europe? Why is he ditching the original Brexit of the Church of England for Rome?
    Is the Vatican in the EU?
    No... but it uses the Euro and is de facto in the Schengen area.
    Occupied by the supposedly neutral Switzerland. Not sure how they get away with that.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,840

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I thought Frost wanted to leave Europe? Why is he ditching the original Brexit of the Church of England for Rome?
    I'm not sure whether he is Church of England or something else. He was in my year at school, which was Anglican aligned, but that was a long time ago.

    This was my comment on his thread:

    Message Actions
    It's an interesting piece. Thank-you.

    To me your account has the feel of Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, Blair was looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans (I have no idea where you have come from - nominal Anglican?), can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel and centred around the "other" and the numinous.

    I'm interested in how your embrace of Rome will affect your politics, and whether you will be a JD Vance style Roman Catholic, or a Pope Leo type Roman Catholic, or be inspired by Archbishop Romero, or Vincent Donovan, or something entirely different? In my view faith which does not inform politics is stunted.

    I'm disagreeing with some of your interpretations - for example Church of England attendance has grown in each of the last 5 years, and vigorous growth in the Greek Orthodox church through offering a distinctly traditionalist experience of the "other" was already a thing in the 1980s when I became interested in the topic. The online Orthobro movement seems to me to be a branch of the manosphere, and about self-justification.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558

    Oh great James Dyson is saying we need to try fracking again.

    He would be better off simply redesigning the dust collection box on his V7 animal hand held vacuum cleaner. If he could get that to work without the far-too-small container getting blocked by beagle hair he can then move on to f****** up the environment through gas contamination of drinking water sources.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 17,102

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    My take is that the war changes how people think. We need to make changes to the country, yes. But as inflation makes everyone noticeably poorer again, you don't pivot towards more radicalism and disruption.

    I expect recovery from the establishment parties.
    And May is the first 'mass' chance for the establishment to parties to show they are starting to come back compared to the burn it all down turnout last year whilst more traditional voters mainly sat on their hands.
    Chance to check if the polling is leading the votes or if the votes will lead the polls (again)
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,303
    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I know the Catholic Church has had its low points in recent years but they must wonder what they did to deserve Vance, Frost and similar alt-right converts. Amusingly the Pope's advisor was musing openly a few days ago whether Peter Thiel should be burnt at the stake.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,135
    edited 10:06AM
    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,856

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    I think it’s a bit early to claim the end of a party that has been consistently leading polls over a long period.

    I don’t want them to be in government. But this reminds me of people calling “the end of Trump” for the 37th time.
    Early? They have been consistently declining in the polls now for months. And we have byelections plural to look at in terms of how people treat them.
    The Tories could capitalise massively on this, if only they would stop drifting further Right, alienating up to 10% of the natural centre ground.

    Hunt or Cleverley could easily see Tories in 200 to 225 seat range.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,438

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Far gage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Sadly you are right, when this is a rare time I wish rogerdamus was right, he sadly is not.

    In a democracy anyone can win. It would be great if Farage had no chance but it just is not true. Those of us who oppose him need to defeat him, not merely assume we will do so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,494
    edited 10:08AM

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I've said if I were a Christian, I would choose to be a Catholic as confession would be perfect for me. Once a week I get the opportunity to brag about my sins, then all I have to do is say 100 Hail Marys and I'm forgiven.
    Russian Orthodoxy for me. I love the ancient icons and smoky mysticism and the singing can be epic. That said, I love English churches and cathedrals and the Anglican choral tradition is unexampled so ideally the two churches would fuse, just for me. Not much to ask

    I am getting more religious as I age. And it’s not just the greater proximity of death. It becomes evermore obvious, to me, that the universe is shaped with a purpose. Fuck knows what it is, but ineffability is part of the deal

    Yesterday I had a call from an old friend. He and his wife have joined a church (quite unexpectedly). I wonder if there is a subtle return to faith out there, even tho the data is disputed

    Happy Easter, PB
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,753

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 71,031
    FF43 said:

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I know the Catholic Church has had its low points in recent years but they must wonder what they did to deserve Vance, Frost and similar alt-right converts. Amusingly the Pope's advisor was musing openly a few days ago whether Peter Thiel should be burnt at the stake.
    Seems very highly suspicious to me that Frost announces this 'conversion' just before Vance releases a book about his own journey to catholics.

    The British Right are so high on the US Trumpian Right's smoke trials that they are giddy most of the time.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 71,031
    MelonB said:

    Leon said:

    An extremely counterintuitive FT article on Trump’s tariffs

    https://www.ft.com/content/35f79237-630c-4b04-8e5a-57394ad2b2f6

    Says, against all expectations, they have been “remarkable”, a definite “success”, boosting output in the USA, aiding employment, etc. It adds that this has made economists look like idiots, and has “collapsed” economic orthodoxy


    “The past year has also proved as disruptive to the discipline of economics and the overconfidence of its most prominent practitioners as it has been to supply chains. The folly of tariffs was among their most deeply held beliefs, hard-coded into their models, proudly professed in every interview. Tariffs, they insisted, would lead to sharply higher inflation and much slower growth, a likely recession and millions of jobs lost. They would prompt retaliation and lead to appreciation of the dollar, crippling exporters and leading to further deindustrialisation.

    “But none of this happened. The dollar weakened. Countries came to the table rather than retaliating and reached agreements favourable to the US. Inflation slowed, logging an increase in the price level of 2.4 per cent over the past 12 months, as compared to 2.8 per cent for the previous year. Real GDP growth accelerated, up an annualised 2.9 per cent over the last three quarters of 2025, as compared to 2.5 per cent in 2024.”

    Having a @williamglenn one this morning?

    It’s an opinion piece by Oren Cass, lifelong tariff fan. The equivalent of Roy Spencer writing an opinion piece in the FT about how climate change isn’t as bad as you think, or John McDonnell writing that the minimum wage hasn’t affected jobs that much so let’s double it.
    Didn't he write the papers that Trump's economic advisors quote from all day long?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 71,031

    Oh great James Dyson is saying we need to try fracking again.

    He would be better off simply redesigning the dust collection box on his V7 animal hand held vacuum cleaner. If he could get that to work without the far-too-small container getting blocked by beagle hair he can then move on to f****** up the environment through gas contamination of drinking water sources.
    Or a larger water tank on the hard wood floor cleaner.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,438
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I've said if I were a Christian, I would choose to be a Catholic as confession would be perfect for me. Once a week I get the opportunity to brag about my sins, then all I have to do is say 100 Hail Marys and I'm forgiven.
    Russian Orthodoxy for me. I love the ancient icons and smoky mysticism and the singing can be epic. That said, I love English churches and cathedrals and the Anglican choral tradition is unexampled so ideally the two churches would fuse, just for me. Not much to ask

    I am getting more religious as I age. And it’s not just the greater proximity of death. It becomes evermore obvious, to me, that the universe is shaped with a purpose. Fuck knows what it is, but ineffability is part of the deal

    Yesterday I had a call from an old friend. He and his wife have joined a church (quite unexpectedly). I wonder if there is a subtle return to faith out there, even tho the data is disputed

    Happy Easter, PB
    Pagan seems much more fun.

    Get to choose whichever god tickles your fancy and many of them desire festivities that can involve copious amounts of alcohol and not just a tiny sip of blood-alcohol.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,135
    FF43 said:

    MelonB said:

    Ed M to approve the North Sea oil project

    Was it that Matt cartoon that finally changed his mind.

    Given the North Sea is largely irrelevant to this year’s crisis, Labour are sensible if they choose to scrape off the barnacle rather than wasting energy trying to explain why the North Sea is irrelevant to this year’s crisis.

    They now need to double down on renewables, transmission and storage to scrape off a bit of the Green Party barnacle. The Lib Dems gave them a generous free hit yesterday with their irresponsible fuel duty policy.
    Totally this. That normally sensible people on PB are buying into the Mad Miliband, drill now to ease fuel shortages myth shows you do need to do selective pandering before tackling the real problem.
    That is simply not the argument

    We drill as much as possible over the next 20 years (as are Norway) to gain tax revenue estimated at 25 billion over the next 10 years, and use that to ease household bills and invest in renewables to get the best of both worlds

    Kemi has led the way with this since last September, and supported now by the unions, the SNP, up to 40 labour mps, and according to the media this morning by Reeves, so Miliband either approves the licences or the pressure for him to be sacked will be intense
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,856

    Also Pb I would really suggest getting on Starmer saying past May elections.

    Yet another article says he’s safe.

    As long as there is war on 2 fronts and need to integrate more closely with Europe he's safe.

    He found a niche as a global spokesman. He weakness domestically as being bland and not poverty political, is a massive strength on the global stage where he is calm and assured.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,438
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    France has a different voting system.

    NF have often won the first round but lost the second.

    Our NF winning a plurality in a majority of seats on polling day would be catastrophic and we would not be saved by a second round.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,494
    MelonB said:

    Leon said:

    An extremely counterintuitive FT article on Trump’s tariffs

    https://www.ft.com/content/35f79237-630c-4b04-8e5a-57394ad2b2f6

    Says, against all expectations, they have been “remarkable”, a definite “success”, boosting output in the USA, aiding employment, etc. It adds that this has made economists look like idiots, and has “collapsed” economic orthodoxy


    “The past year has also proved as disruptive to the discipline of economics and the overconfidence of its most prominent practitioners as it has been to supply chains. The folly of tariffs was among their most deeply held beliefs, hard-coded into their models, proudly professed in every interview. Tariffs, they insisted, would lead to sharply higher inflation and much slower growth, a likely recession and millions of jobs lost. They would prompt retaliation and lead to appreciation of the dollar, crippling exporters and leading to further deindustrialisation.

    “But none of this happened. The dollar weakened. Countries came to the table rather than retaliating and reached agreements favourable to the US. Inflation slowed, logging an increase in the price level of 2.4 per cent over the past 12 months, as compared to 2.8 per cent for the previous year. Real GDP growth accelerated, up an annualised 2.9 per cent over the last three quarters of 2025, as compared to 2.5 per cent in 2024.”

    Having a @williamglenn one this morning?

    It’s an opinion piece by Oren Cass, lifelong tariff fan. The equivalent of Roy Spencer writing an opinion piece in the FT about how climate change isn’t as bad as you think, or John McDonnell writing that the minimum wage hasn’t affected jobs that much so let’s double it.
    Nonetheless, it’s in the FT, which surprises me greatly. And he provides hard numbers, which deserve to be addressed rather than dismissed

    Tsk
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,135
    Brixian59 said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    I think it’s a bit early to claim the end of a party that has been consistently leading polls over a long period.

    I don’t want them to be in government. But this reminds me of people calling “the end of Trump” for the 37th time.
    Early? They have been consistently declining in the polls now for months. And we have byelections plural to look at in terms of how people treat them.
    The Tories could capitalise massively on this, if only they would stop drifting further Right, alienating up to 10% of the natural centre ground.

    Hunt or Cleverley could easily see Tories in 200 to 225 seat range.
    From todays Conhome report and shadow cabinet table

    Parliament is in recess, and MPs are once again scattered across the country, back in their constituencies. In North West Essex, Kemi Badenoch will be pleased: once again, she tops ConservativeHome’s Shadow Cabinet League Table, with a net satisfaction rating of +82.1 (up 0.5 points).

    It is the third Shadow Cabinet League Table in a row in which she has come first. The first time she reached pole position was shortly before Robert Jenrick’s defection to Reform UK. It underlines the marked shift from her earlier performances in ConservativeHome’s polling, when there were times that she was languishing on zero.

    But it also reflects the way her personal polling has improved dramatically in recent months. Badenoch is now the most popular of all the party leaders. According to the think tank More in Common, the Tory leader’s net approval rating has risen to -9. That may not sound like much, but it puts her ahead of the pack. Sir Keir Starmer is on -42, while Nigel Farage and Zack Polanski are both on -16, with Ed Davey on -11.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,494
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    That didn’t happen with Hitler
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    The existential threat is much more marked for Labour. The Conservative Party can be absorbed into Reform by osmosis. It is happening as we speak, Prue Leith, Jenrick, Braverman maybe Katie Lam next and just jettison the Reform name and bingo a new Conservative Party and already in power.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,438

    FF43 said:

    MelonB said:

    Ed M to approve the North Sea oil project

    Was it that Matt cartoon that finally changed his mind.

    Given the North Sea is largely irrelevant to this year’s crisis, Labour are sensible if they choose to scrape off the barnacle rather than wasting energy trying to explain why the North Sea is irrelevant to this year’s crisis.

    They now need to double down on renewables, transmission and storage to scrape off a bit of the Green Party barnacle. The Lib Dems gave them a generous free hit yesterday with their irresponsible fuel duty policy.
    Totally this. That normally sensible people on PB are buying into the Mad Miliband, drill now to ease fuel shortages myth shows you do need to do selective pandering before tackling the real problem.
    That is simply not the argument

    We drill as much as possible over the next 20 years (as are Norway) to gain tax revenue estimated at 25 billion over the next 10 years, and use that to ease household bills and invest in renewables to get the best of both worlds

    Kemi has led the way with this since last September, and supported now by the unions, the SNP, up to 40 labour mps, and according to the media this morning by Reeves, so Miliband either approves the licences or the pressure for him to be sacked will be intense
    Slashing licences rather than the burning of oil is economic and environmental madness.

    We should be both extracting oil and transitioning away from it. Ideally we should be self-sufficient in oil and gas.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,753

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    France has a different voting system.

    NF have often won the first round but lost the second.

    Our NF winning a plurality in a majority of seats on polling day would be catastrophic and we would not be saved by a second round.
    They will do what they have to do where they have to do it irrespective of voting systems. We might not have one of the brightest electorates in the world but they can figure that much out (as they did at the last GE)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,135
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    The only thing that interests me is neither Farage or Polanski get anywhere near running the country, but howling in the wind will not change polls, the public want their government to show they are on their side and this is simply not happening
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,303

    FF43 said:

    MelonB said:

    Ed M to approve the North Sea oil project

    Was it that Matt cartoon that finally changed his mind.

    Given the North Sea is largely irrelevant to this year’s crisis, Labour are sensible if they choose to scrape off the barnacle rather than wasting energy trying to explain why the North Sea is irrelevant to this year’s crisis.

    They now need to double down on renewables, transmission and storage to scrape off a bit of the Green Party barnacle. The Lib Dems gave them a generous free hit yesterday with their irresponsible fuel duty policy.
    Totally this. That normally sensible people on PB are buying into the Mad Miliband, drill now to ease fuel shortages myth shows you do need to do selective pandering before tackling the real problem.
    That is simply not the argument

    We drill as much as possible over the next 20 years (as are Norway) to gain tax revenue estimated at 25 billion over the next 10 years, and use that to ease household bills and invest in renewables to get the best of both worlds

    Kemi has led the way with this since last September, and supported now by the unions, the SNP, up to 40 labour mps, and according to the media this morning by Reeves, so Miliband either approves the licences or the pressure for him to be sacked will be intense
    Not according to OBR who estimate revenues from North Sea will essentially disappear by 2030. This doesn't include new licences but one of the main arguments for more drilling is that it's currently overtaxed. You can't have it both ways.

    There are a couple of real moderately useful reasons to continue to exploit the North Sea. Government revenues isn't one one of them, nor are we going to see lower energy bills because of it.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,438
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    France has a different voting system.

    NF have often won the first round but lost the second.

    Our NF winning a plurality in a majority of seats on polling day would be catastrophic and we would not be saved by a second round.
    They will do what they have to do where they have to do it irrespective of voting systems. We might not have one of the brightest electorates in the world but they can figure that much out (as they did at the last GE)
    And the four times before that?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,852
    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    I have returned for 5 minutes after a month away and find for once you are discussing a serious topic - Marmalade.

    Marmalade should not need labelling because the only decent proper marmalade (including the posh stuff) is home made. The rest is rubbish.

    Top tip I found this year for January's yearly production: Black treacle. I am always trying to find ways to make it more bitter and black treacle is the latest attempt.

    Also for those of you on statins and who might eat lots of the really strong stuff a little known fact is the concentration of furanocoumarins in Seville oranges is similar to Grapefruit and the highest concentration by an order of magnitude is in the peel and pith, so if you are an addict of strong marmalade you might want to check which statin you are on.

    OK after that pearl of wisdom I an off again now until the locals maybe.

    Chuckleberries will make your marmalade more tart. Except it will be jam. Have you tried limes in marmalade?

    Bloody Peruvian bears, coming over here eating our Marmalade Sandwiches.

    https://youtu.be/6DafuN7wxuM?t=1174
    It is not the tartness I am trying to get (although I really love the tart taste as well) it is an extra bitter taste I am after. I have previously tried burning the mixture a bit, but that seems to stop the pectin working so you get a soft toffee texture rather than a set marmalade. Lovely though difficult to spread. I have also tried using molasses which works. Then I saw that Pru Leith adds black treacle so I gave that a go, but doubling the quantity she puts in.

    I do like stuff that has either a tart or bitter taste. I have a Damson tree and a Damson crumble with no added sugar in the fruit and molasses in the crumble is lovely.

    PS I haven't used limes, but I do put 2 lemons (peel and juice) in with 1 kg of Seville oranges.
    Have you tried adding bitter herbs ?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 19,303
    edited 10:26AM
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    MelonB said:

    Ed M to approve the North Sea oil project

    Was it that Matt cartoon that finally changed his mind.

    Given the North Sea is largely irrelevant to this year’s crisis, Labour are sensible if they choose to scrape off the barnacle rather than wasting energy trying to explain why the North Sea is irrelevant to this year’s crisis.

    They now need to double down on renewables, transmission and storage to scrape off a bit of the Green Party barnacle. The Lib Dems gave them a generous free hit yesterday with their irresponsible fuel duty policy.
    Totally this. That normally sensible people on PB are buying into the Mad Miliband, drill now to ease fuel shortages myth shows you do need to do selective pandering before tackling the real problem.
    That is simply not the argument

    We drill as much as possible over the next 20 years (as are Norway) to gain tax revenue estimated at 25 billion over the next 10 years, and use that to ease household bills and invest in renewables to get the best of both worlds

    Kemi has led the way with this since last September, and supported now by the unions, the SNP, up to 40 labour mps, and according to the media this morning by Reeves, so Miliband either approves the licences or the pressure for him to be sacked will be intense
    Not according to OBR who estimate revenues from North Sea will essentially disappear by 2030. This doesn't include new licences but one of the main arguments for more drilling is that it's currently overtaxed. You can't have it both ways.

    There are a couple of real moderately useful reasons to continue to exploit the North Sea. Government revenues isn't one one of them, nor are we going to see lower energy bills because of it.
    The real reasons are the industry provides employment albeit diminishing, it gives us an exportable product for little bit longer, and marginally helps energy security.

    But as @MelonB states the big prize is renewables and electrification.
  • Leon said:

    MelonB said:

    Leon said:

    An extremely counterintuitive FT article on Trump’s tariffs

    https://www.ft.com/content/35f79237-630c-4b04-8e5a-57394ad2b2f6

    Says, against all expectations, they have been “remarkable”, a definite “success”, boosting output in the USA, aiding employment, etc. It adds that this has made economists look like idiots, and has “collapsed” economic orthodoxy


    “The past year has also proved as disruptive to the discipline of economics and the overconfidence of its most prominent practitioners as it has been to supply chains. The folly of tariffs was among their most deeply held beliefs, hard-coded into their models, proudly professed in every interview. Tariffs, they insisted, would lead to sharply higher inflation and much slower growth, a likely recession and millions of jobs lost. They would prompt retaliation and lead to appreciation of the dollar, crippling exporters and leading to further deindustrialisation.

    “But none of this happened. The dollar weakened. Countries came to the table rather than retaliating and reached agreements favourable to the US. Inflation slowed, logging an increase in the price level of 2.4 per cent over the past 12 months, as compared to 2.8 per cent for the previous year. Real GDP growth accelerated, up an annualised 2.9 per cent over the last three quarters of 2025, as compared to 2.5 per cent in 2024.”

    Having a @williamglenn one this morning?

    It’s an opinion piece by Oren Cass, lifelong tariff fan. The equivalent of Roy Spencer writing an opinion piece in the FT about how climate change isn’t as bad as you think, or John McDonnell writing that the minimum wage hasn’t affected jobs that much so let’s double it.
    Nonetheless, it’s in the FT, which surprises me greatly. And he provides hard numbers, which deserve to be addressed rather than dismissed

    Tsk
    I think it diminishes the FT to have given him the title "contributing editor". Implies a level of endorsement that isn't justified.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,852
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I thought Frost wanted to leave Europe? Why is he ditching the original Brexit of the Church of England for Rome?
    Is the Vatican in the EU?
    Being landlocked within Italy, it is.
    Not a member state though.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,840
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I've said if I were a Christian, I would choose to be a Catholic as confession would be perfect for me. Once a week I get the opportunity to brag about my sins, then all I have to do is say 100 Hail Marys and I'm forgiven.
    Russian Orthodoxy for me. I love the ancient icons and smoky mysticism and the singing can be epic. That said, I love English churches and cathedrals and the Anglican choral tradition is unexampled so ideally the two churches would fuse, just for me. Not much to ask

    I am getting more religious as I age. And it’s not just the greater proximity of death. It becomes evermore obvious, to me, that the universe is shaped with a purpose. Fuck knows what it is, but ineffability is part of the deal

    Yesterday I had a call from an old friend. He and his wife have joined a church (quite unexpectedly). I wonder if there is a subtle return to faith out there, even tho the data is disputed

    Happy Easter, PB
    Have you done your London Churches rabbit holes? Given you, I'm assuming you would visit one sometimes.

    St Dunstan-in-the-West on Fleet Street is a City Church with a real (Romanian Orthodox) iconostasis inside (they share the building), from St Antim Monastery in Bucharest, installed in 1966. They also have the oldest public clock in London from 1671, with Gog and Magog striking the hours, and the oldest outdoor public statue of Queen Elizabeth I.

    If I recommended a visit to one other City Church, it would be the Roman Catholic one of St Mary Moorfields (1791), which is almost camouflaged in a row of buildings on Eldon Street near Finsbury Circus, and is such a surprise to see the inside.
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/vrDMzvgm42krcGnCA

    Yes - happy Easter to all PB.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,494

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I've said if I were a Christian, I would choose to be a Catholic as confession would be perfect for me. Once a week I get the opportunity to brag about my sins, then all I have to do is say 100 Hail Marys and I'm forgiven.
    Russian Orthodoxy for me. I love the ancient icons and smoky mysticism and the singing can be epic. That said, I love English churches and cathedrals and the Anglican choral tradition is unexampled so ideally the two churches would fuse, just for me. Not much to ask

    I am getting more religious as I age. And it’s not just the greater proximity of death. It becomes evermore obvious, to me, that the universe is shaped with a purpose. Fuck knows what it is, but ineffability is part of the deal

    Yesterday I had a call from an old friend. He and his wife have joined a church (quite unexpectedly). I wonder if there is a subtle return to faith out there, even tho the data is disputed

    Happy Easter, PB
    Pagan seems much more fun.

    Get to choose whichever god tickles your fancy and many of them desire festivities that can involve copious amounts of alcohol and not just a tiny sip of blood-alcohol.
    Russians aren’t renowned for eschewing booze

    Indeed Orthodox clerics have a reputation for drinking

    I once spent a week in the quasi-independent monastic theocracy of Mount Athos (where no women are allowed, even hens get chased away). It’s divinely beautiful, you walk from monastery to monastery. There’s a couple of villages with shops and bars run by monks. It’s all intensely weird

    The food everywhere is execrable, but for one thing: in some of the monasteries they serve very decent if quite green homemade wine. Sometimes even at breakfast (which otherwise might consist of a hunk of bread, a hunk of cheese, and a few olives)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,135
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    MelonB said:

    Ed M to approve the North Sea oil project

    Was it that Matt cartoon that finally changed his mind.

    Given the North Sea is largely irrelevant to this year’s crisis, Labour are sensible if they choose to scrape off the barnacle rather than wasting energy trying to explain why the North Sea is irrelevant to this year’s crisis.

    They now need to double down on renewables, transmission and storage to scrape off a bit of the Green Party barnacle. The Lib Dems gave them a generous free hit yesterday with their irresponsible fuel duty policy.
    Totally this. That normally sensible people on PB are buying into the Mad Miliband, drill now to ease fuel shortages myth shows you do need to do selective pandering before tackling the real problem.
    That is simply not the argument

    We drill as much as possible over the next 20 years (as are Norway) to gain tax revenue estimated at 25 billion over the next 10 years, and use that to ease household bills and invest in renewables to get the best of both worlds

    Kemi has led the way with this since last September, and supported now by the unions, the SNP, up to 40 labour mps, and according to the media this morning by Reeves, so Miliband either approves the licences or the pressure for him to be sacked will be intense
    Not according to OBR who estimate revenues from North Sea will essentially disappear by 2030. This doesn't include new licences but one of the main arguments for more drilling is that it's currently overtaxed. You can't have it both ways.

    There are a couple of real moderately useful reasons to continue to exploit the North Sea. Government revenues isn't one one of them, nor are we going to see lower energy bills because of it.
    You have just said the revenue will disappear by 2030, not including new licences
    '
    That is the hub' of the argument and economic vandalism inflicted on our country by those who cannot see we should transition and take North Sea tax income from profits which even with the high tax would still provide 25 billion over 10 years

    At least is seems to finally be getting through to Reeves who knows she has to explore every chance of gaining income and I expect both the Jackdaw and Rosebank fields to be approverd
  • It does appear that Starmer is going to "break glass" and go for the EU strategy. Can't say I can blame him with what Trump is doing. However, we must not rejoin or accept freedom of movement.

    People will call me crazy but I can still totally see the next election polling slowly moving to something like Tories 25%, Labour 25%, Reform 19-20%
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,852
    edited 10:33AM
    GOP congressman also nonplussed.

    NEWSMAX: I wonder if you can respond to some breaking news we got a few moments ago that the Secretary of War has asked the Army Chief of Staff to step down

    REP. McCORMICK: That would be news to me. That would be very surprising. I'd look into it immediately, because Gen. George is a brilliant mind.

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/2039814337582301458

    (Mind you, this is the same guy who thought the US won in Vietnam.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,135

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    France has a different voting system.

    NF have often won the first round but lost the second.

    Our NF winning a plurality in a majority of seats on polling day would be catastrophic and we would not be saved by a second round.
    They will do what they have to do where they have to do it irrespective of voting systems. We might not have one of the brightest electorates in the world but they can figure that much out (as they did at the last GE)
    And the four times before that?
    'We do not have one of the brightest of electorates' is the arrogance and contempt for other views that resulted in Brexit
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    The only thing that interests me is neither Farage or Polanski get anywhere near running the country, but howling in the wind will not change polls, the public want their government to show they are on their side and this is simply not happening
    When Boris was Prime Minister he gave us loads of free money. His polling figures were astronomical. Perhaps loads of free money to voters is the answer for Starmer or his successor
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,494
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Quite an interesting piece from Lord Frost in the Telegraph.

    He's become a Roman Catholic, in a process which I think would bear comparison with Tony Blair's motivations. In the sense of Cardinal JH Newman, he is looking for something more comprehensive and 'fully orbed' than he has known before. Brits, especially High or liberal catholic Anglicans, can feel an attraction to the RC world which is almost magnetic in its feel.

    Britain is quietly awakening to full-fat supernatural Christianity
    I have turned to Rome and I am not alone in wanting to be part of an ethereal reality sustained by a creator God


    Full article link: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/82c46688e81c1311

    (Personally I think he is a little confused in some of the background he puts forward, and reacting more to his own perceptions eg about "woke", and not that well informed - but it is worth a read nonetheless. As is his habit he is on there replying to commenters at 10am ie now.)

    I've said if I were a Christian, I would choose to be a Catholic as confession would be perfect for me. Once a week I get the opportunity to brag about my sins, then all I have to do is say 100 Hail Marys and I'm forgiven.
    Russian Orthodoxy for me. I love the ancient icons and smoky mysticism and the singing can be epic. That said, I love English churches and cathedrals and the Anglican choral tradition is unexampled so ideally the two churches would fuse, just for me. Not much to ask

    I am getting more religious as I age. And it’s not just the greater proximity of death. It becomes evermore obvious, to me, that the universe is shaped with a purpose. Fuck knows what it is, but ineffability is part of the deal

    Yesterday I had a call from an old friend. He and his wife have joined a church (quite unexpectedly). I wonder if there is a subtle return to faith out there, even tho the data is disputed

    Happy Easter, PB
    Have you done your London Churches rabbit holes? Given you, I'm assuming you would visit one sometimes.

    St Dunstan-in-the-West on Fleet Street is a City Church with a real (Romanian Orthodox) iconostasis inside (they share the building), from St Antim Monastery in Bucharest, installed in 1966. They also have the oldest public clock in London from 1671, with Gog and Magog striking the hours, and the oldest outdoor public statue of Queen Elizabeth I.

    If I recommended a visit to one other City Church, it would be the Roman Catholic one of St Mary Moorfields (1791), which is almost camouflaged in a row of buildings on Eldon Street near Finsbury Circus, and is such a surprise to see the inside.
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/vrDMzvgm42krcGnCA

    Yes - happy Easter to all PB.

    Yes I love London churches. I know the first of the ones you mention but not the second. Will check, ta

    Hawksmoor is possibly my favourite. My heart leaps every time I see Christ Church Spitalfields, the concentrated power.

    For pure noom, however, St Bartholomew the Great is great. And personally St Sepulchre-without-Newgate has a special place. I went in there alone to pray on the first day of my rape trial at the Old Bailey across the road, like many Londoners for centuries before me. Because the Bailey was Newgate, of course
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,419
    edited 10:35AM

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    France has a different voting system.

    NF have often won the first round but lost the second.

    Our NF winning a plurality in a majority of seats on polling day would be catastrophic and we would not be saved by a second round.
    They will do what they have to do where they have to do it irrespective of voting systems. We might not have one of the brightest electorates in the world but they can figure that much out (as they did at the last GE)
    And the four times before that?
    'We do not have one of the brightest of electorates' is the arrogance and contempt for other views that resulted in Brexit
    It's not wrong though, it's like the phrase the customer is always right
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 38,558
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Badenoch overall is doing a good job. But the war cheering was a rookie error when almost everyone here could see what a disaster it was going to be.

    A ridiculous post. If you are trying to gain credibility by seeming to be even handed you have to start by saying someting credible. Try imitating DA. Badenoch is crap and if someone who is a Labour voter can't see it then you should be a Tory voter.

    (Roger. No more Mr Nice Guy)
    But she’s doing nothing really differently than SKS did. Constructive opposition. War was her first big error.
    The first big error out of one? Starmer is crap enough. If a LOTO can't score points when there is literally a madman leading the 'FREE WORLD' ................ when only 30% of his own country supports his madness......

    .........Even then she hasn't the political brain to score a single point........ It's an OPEN GOAL. She's F''''ing useless.

    What wouldn't you give for another Charlie Kennedy......
    A triple whisky?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 37,030

    It does appear that Starmer is going to "break glass" and go for the EU strategy. Can't say I can blame him with what Trump is doing. However, we must not rejoin or accept freedom of movement.

    People will call me crazy but I can still totally see the next election polling slowly moving to something like Tories 25%, Labour 25%, Reform 19-20%

    I don't think you're crazy, but I think your percentages are a little high.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,135

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    The only thing that interests me is neither Farage or Polanski get anywhere near running the country, but howling in the wind will not change polls, the public want their government to show they are on their side and this is simply not happening
    When Boris was Prime Minister he gave us loads of free money. His polling figures were astronomical. Perhaps loads of free money to voters is the answer for Starmer or his successor
    Let me be fair - I do not envy Starmer and Reeves choices, but Reeves previous decisions have not given me confidence she will make the right ones going forward
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,898
    Brixian59 said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    I think it’s a bit early to claim the end of a party that has been consistently leading polls over a long period.

    I don’t want them to be in government. But this reminds me of people calling “the end of Trump” for the 37th time.
    Early? They have been consistently declining in the polls now for months. And we have byelections plural to look at in terms of how people treat them.
    The Tories could capitalise massively on this, if only they would stop drifting further Right, alienating up to 10% of the natural centre ground.

    Hunt or Cleverley could easily see Tories in 200 to 225 seat range.
    Kemi is also capable of this. She just needs to change tack.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,135
    edited 10:43AM

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Considering the utter chaos that ensues when voters face the need to Stop Reform, we can see where the trend is going.

    Remember the election where UKIP won nearly 4m votes and no seats? 2029 is that on steroids. They will win seats, but with the trend against them and revulsion from so many voters, they will get shafted by the electoral system and tactical voting.

    Farage will LOVE it. He doesn't want to be PM. He wants to endlessly agitate from the sidelines.

    That's a sage post. There's no way for Farage to win that I can see. Only Badenoch has less chance. While 75% of voters don't want the charlatan he aint gonna win.
    You are wishcasting

    There is a very real possibility Farage could win and nothing to date in polls or actual local results suggest anything other than a shellacking for labour and the conservatives at the expense of Reform and Greens with SNP and Plaid in Scotland and Wales

    We can shout as much as we want about how obnoxious Farage and Polanski are but they remain very much in poll position, certainly for May
    Follow the progress of the NF in France for the last 30nodd years. When you can't get more than 35% of the country to support you the 65% will always make sure you lose. .......And she was never as crap as Farage
    France has a different voting system.

    NF have often won the first round but lost the second.

    Our NF winning a plurality in a majority of seats on polling day would be catastrophic and we would not be saved by a second round.
    They will do what they have to do where they have to do it irrespective of voting systems. We might not have one of the brightest electorates in the world but they can figure that much out (as they did at the last GE)
    And the four times before that?
    'We do not have one of the brightest of electorates' is the arrogance and contempt for other views that resulted in Brexit
    It's not wrong though, it's like the phrase the customer is always right
    It is wrong, because it indicates an arrogance and superiority that invokes anger and confrontation
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,775
    Anyone who makes marmalade should try the original recipe: quince marmalade

    Perhaps made with Portuguese quince (marmeleiro)

    Recipe from Eliza Acton’s 1845 book Modern Cookery

    https://britishfoodhistory.com/2013/01/23/the-original-quince-marmalade/
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