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  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,009
    edited 3:14PM
    rcs1000 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    You really are ignorant and quite nasty

    How to influence people and persuade them is not your greatest gift

    To be fair, I will stand up for Brixian on this. I think he is wrong a lot of the time (sometimes I agree with him) and I think he responds badly to informed responses and challenges. But I have never actually thought him nasty. There are many others who are far more personal and offensive in their comments.

    The whole point of this place is to debate, discuss and, hopefully learn and I am quite sure there are others who think my responses are just as 'forthright' as his.

    I certainly wouldn't choose not to engage with him or want to see him stop posting.
    Thank You Richard

    I can be overly sarcastic and politically caustic

    I rarely intend to be nasty. I tend to respond nastily when I feel someone is being nasty to me.

    If I am then that is very rarely my intention.
    Maybe you can learn from @Richard_Tyndall on how to make an argument and win friends
    Wait.

    There are people on here who have friends?
    I hope so !!!!!

  • TazTaz Posts: 26,364

    rcs1000 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    You really are ignorant and quite nasty

    How to influence people and persuade them is not your greatest gift

    To be fair, I will stand up for Brixian on this. I think he is wrong a lot of the time (sometimes I agree with him) and I think he responds badly to informed responses and challenges. But I have never actually thought him nasty. There are many others who are far more personal and offensive in their comments.

    The whole point of this place is to debate, discuss and, hopefully learn and I am quite sure there are others who think my responses are just as 'forthright' as his.

    I certainly wouldn't choose not to engage with him or want to see him stop posting.
    Thank You Richard

    I can be overly sarcastic and politically caustic

    I rarely intend to be nasty. I tend to respond nastily when I feel someone is being nasty to me.

    If I am then that is very rarely my intention.
    Maybe you can learn from @Richard_Tyndall on how to make an argument and win friends
    Wait.

    There are people on here who have friends?
    "Fish are friends, not food," he said to the mackerel in the tin.
    Mackerel is so bloody expensive now !!
  • eekeek Posts: 33,075

    Spurs in crisis - will they avoid the drop ?

    I suspect that which other one out of West Ham / Tottenham drops they will find it very hard to get back. Even just getting their finances back to a position that could support a promotion push could be beyond them.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,653

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Thanks.

    That gives 1,681. Goodwin says "more than 2,000".
    The study was from 2015, using data from 2013. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the number has increased by that much, given the amount if immigration in the last 13 years.
    OK, and we can trust Goodwin has this data and has checked it?
    I would trust Goodwin less far than I can throw him (Mental note, arm day at the gym),

    But just because he is an arsehole, doesn't mean that there are not facts here.

    From some googling around, it seems there is a claim that the number is 2039 - allegedly based on a FOI from the DfE. Which I can't find online.
    Poor old Matt, the former Professor Goodwin.

    Having written about the far right, seems to have fallen victim to some weird kind of Stockholm Syndrome through association, and signed up.

    Then persuaded to fling himself into rhe furnace of the Gorton & Denton by-election. Now all that's left are the charred remains of his academic reputation and his political ambitions.

    Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 71,009
    eek said:

    Spurs in crisis - will they avoid the drop ?

    I suspect that which other one out of West Ham / Tottenham drops they will find it very hard to get back. Even just getting their finances back to a position that could support a promotion push could be beyond them.
    Spurs league fixtures

    Sunderland a
    Brighton h
    Wolves a
    Aston Villa a
    Leeds h
    Chelsea a
    Everton h
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,653

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    Igor Tudor? What a great name.

    Like Vladimir Plantagenet, or Donald Putin.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,285

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    Igor Tudor? What a great name.

    Like Vladimir Plantagenet, or Donald Putin.
    Donald Norman would be better.

    Sounds almost like what he is...
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,975
    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    You really are ignorant and quite nasty

    How to influence people and persuade them is not your greatest gift

    To be fair, I will stand up for Brixian on this. I think he is wrong a lot of the time (sometimes I agree with him) and I think he responds badly to informed responses and challenges. But I have never actually thought him nasty. There are many others who are far more personal and offensive in their comments.

    The whole point of this place is to debate, discuss and, hopefully learn and I am quite sure there are others who think my responses are just as 'forthright' as his.

    I certainly wouldn't choose not to engage with him or want to see him stop posting.
    Thank You Richard

    I can be overly sarcastic and politically caustic

    I rarely intend to be nasty. I tend to respond nastily when I feel someone is being nasty to me.

    If I am then that is very rarely my intention.
    Maybe you can learn from @Richard_Tyndall on how to make an argument and win friends
    Wait.

    There are people on here who have friends?
    "Fish are friends, not food," he said to the mackerel in the tin.
    Mackerel is so bloody expensive now !!
    Is it?

    I'd say it's about the only food cheaper in real terms in Ireland today compared to in Britain pre-pandemic.

    Mind, I haven't bought it fresh for a while. We normally get haddock or monkfish from the stall at the market if we're buying fresh and I choose not to hear the numbers then, but just hand over the funny coloured bits of paper.
  • Clutch_BromptonClutch_Brompton Posts: 852

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Thanks.

    That gives 1,681. Goodwin says "more than 2,000".
    The study was from 2015, using data from 2013. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the number has increased by that much, given the amount if immigration in the last 13 years.
    OK, and we can trust Goodwin has this data and has checked it?
    I would trust Goodwin less far than I can throw him (Mental note, arm day at the gym),

    But just because he is an arsehole, doesn't mean that there are not facts here.

    From some googling around, it seems there is a claim that the number is 2039 - allegedly based on a FOI from the DfE. Which I can't find online.
    Poor old Matt, the former Professor Goodwin.

    Having written about the far right, seems to have fallen victim to some weird kind of Stockholm Syndrome through association, and signed up.

    Then persuaded to fling himself into rhe furnace of the Gorton & Denton by-election. Now all that's left are the charred remains of his academic reputation and his political ambitions.

    Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
    A skidmark on the underpants of British politics

    Least surprising news of the year was the fact Police found no evidence of the electoral fraud he claimed cost him victory. Turns out the explanation of the REFUK defeat was rather easier to identify - an inept candidate who refused to meet the voters. Not that you'd have seen it on the 'news sources' that broadcast his pathetic inventions of course
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,975
    Although, it was only €7.59 for the whole chicken from the happy chicken brand, so some foods are definitely cheaper than you might think. Roast chicken for four. Leftover chicken for two meals for two afterwards and stock in the freezer for a second batch of soup later.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,331

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
  • TazTaz Posts: 26,364
    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Reform are an all things to all people party - it's why they are popular..

    What the country needs is for them to win the 2026 local councils so they are found out while running them.
    Indeed - where Reform have taken power its all slid downhill rather quickly. Enjoyed a Twitter spat where a Reformer in Chesterfield was foaming on about how her Labour council had put the tax up. "But Derbyshire set the tax and that's Reform" eventually wore down her insistent that the Labour-run Borough Council was actually responsible.

    People who are Fed Up have been coached that most council spending is a waste, is woke, is stupid, is Labour (and sometimes Tory) and REFORM will fix it by cutting the woke waste.

    To find Reform doing all the same things for all the same reasons is hugely damaging, especially when Reform take the worst of the Tories and add morons and bigots to the mix to create administrations which both spend money and deliver nothing?

    Reality always catches up with rhetoric, as the Tories found out.
    What is the reality then? Have you any evidence that 'it's all slid downhill rather quickly' in Reform-led councils, because I think if that were the case we'd have heard plenty about it here by now.

    As far as I am aware, Reform have made necessary and sensible economies, and the council tax rises they have implemented have been less than in councils controlled by other parties, but they haven't been able to touch the major burdens because the spend is mandated centrally.
    Apart from Worcestershire at 9%.
    I suspect Worcestershire has adopted the correct approach - massively increase council tax now so as the next local elections come around you can have a far lower increase than would otherwise be the case.

    As I said to @Taz regarding Durham I wouldn't have a 3% increase this year, because the risk is a 5% rise later, better to increase by 5% now so you have leeway to have a 3% cut later when the next election comes along.
    It was 2%, but, of course, if you increase by 5% year one then reduce each subsequent year rather than go the other way then, compounded, you get more.

    But they wanted bragging rights and I’m happy at the increase.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,756

    Taz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    You really are ignorant and quite nasty

    How to influence people and persuade them is not your greatest gift

    To be fair, I will stand up for Brixian on this. I think he is wrong a lot of the time (sometimes I agree with him) and I think he responds badly to informed responses and challenges. But I have never actually thought him nasty. There are many others who are far more personal and offensive in their comments.

    The whole point of this place is to debate, discuss and, hopefully learn and I am quite sure there are others who think my responses are just as 'forthright' as his.

    I certainly wouldn't choose not to engage with him or want to see him stop posting.
    Thank You Richard

    I can be overly sarcastic and politically caustic

    I rarely intend to be nasty. I tend to respond nastily when I feel someone is being nasty to me.

    If I am then that is very rarely my intention.
    Maybe you can learn from @Richard_Tyndall on how to make an argument and win friends
    Wait.

    There are people on here who have friends?
    "Fish are friends, not food," he said to the mackerel in the tin.
    Mackerel is so bloody expensive now !!
    Is it?

    I'd say it's about the only food cheaper in real terms in Ireland today compared to in Britain pre-pandemic.

    Mind, I haven't bought it fresh for a while. We normally get haddock or monkfish from the stall at the market if we're buying fresh and I choose not to hear the numbers then, but just hand over the funny coloured bits of paper.
    We have a massive problem down here at certain times of the year with east Europeans catching literally hundreds off Berry Head old mine workings and taking to sell on black market mostly from Bristol.

    You can throw a 16 feather line in and pull 16 good size ones on.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 47,252

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    I mean, that's not the only bad news. The history to date is that Palestinians have not reconciled themselves to being pushed out of their land. So the conflict endures. So Israel has to keep pushing beyond its borders to push the enemy further away. But there is always a border, and always an enemy across it, and so the Empire has to continue to expand, lest it collapses.

    It is not a route to a stable peace.
    Is there a word for this continual desire for ever expanding living space?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,931

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Thanks.

    That gives 1,681. Goodwin says "more than 2,000".
    The study was from 2015, using data from 2013. I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the number has increased by that much, given the amount if immigration in the last 13 years.
    OK, and we can trust Goodwin has this data and has checked it?
    I would trust Goodwin less far than I can throw him (Mental note, arm day at the gym),

    But just because he is an arsehole, doesn't mean that there are not facts here.

    From some googling around, it seems there is a claim that the number is 2039 - allegedly based on a FOI from the DfE. Which I can't find online.
    Poor old Matt, the former Professor Goodwin.

    Having written about the far right, seems to have fallen victim to some weird kind of Stockholm Syndrome through association, and signed up.

    Then persuaded to fling himself into rhe furnace of the Gorton & Denton by-election. Now all that's left are the charred remains of his academic reputation and his political ambitions.

    Oh dear, how sad, never mind.
    An aspect underrated in all this is that it is fairly clear there are significant career opportunities on the parapolitical front. The portfolio of conferences, publications, traditional media appearances, other mainstream journalism and social media is, I suspect, a fairly prosperous one. Plus in some cases the possibility of being PM or CoE or something if you happen to get all your ducks in a row at the right time.

    This is not a criticism as such, though I am otherwise critical of Goodwin and would rather he had used his academic gifts - which IMO were real - to be more like John Curtice, who seems to do both academia and quality comment brilliantly instead of Farage's tame intellectual.

    When Goodwin was telling us in decent books that populism has causes, and needs to be understood, and that the mainstream political class has failed in many ways he had a genuine and decent purpose.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,147

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    Igor Tudor? What a great name.

    Like Vladimir Plantagenet, or Donald Putin.
    The greatest manager name was Wolfgang Wolf who managed Wolfsburg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Wolf
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,995
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    A good BBC write up on the Iran war: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y969pnxgvo

    “Trump is waging war based on instinct and it isn't working”

    The first few paragraphs talk about plans, planning etc.

    The BBC are sanewashing again. Trump didn't have a plan. It was just 'bomb because we can' and assume the Iranians would surrender and install Trump as the new Supreme leader. It really didn't go further than that.

    The US continue NOT to have a plan. Are they going to launch a ground invasion? If so, where? What's the aim, what's the objective?
    Well without a ground invasion it is unlikely to be able to remove the Iranian regime
    How do you envisage a ground invasion removing the Iranian regime?
    Well US and Israeli troops enter Tehran and literally remove the regime and Revolutionary Guard
    What level of forces are required for that, and how many are in theatre?
    10,000 US troops and marines are now in the region with more on the way. Israel would also send troops

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/us-iran-ground-operations-marines-middle-east-escalation-trump-b1276873.html
    2.7 million US military served in Vietnam between 1955 - 1975 and 58,279 died
    They kept South Vietnam free of the Communists. The mistake was withdrawing them
    You are a fool and/or deeply ignorant of the history.
    I am not, the Democrat Congress pulled funding for the war forcing Ford to withdraw troops, had the US troops stayed Saigon would never have fallen to the Vietcong
    Rubbish!

    Sorry to be so direct, but have you ever been to Vietnam?
  • eekeek Posts: 33,075
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Reform are an all things to all people party - it's why they are popular..

    What the country needs is for them to win the 2026 local councils so they are found out while running them.
    Indeed - where Reform have taken power its all slid downhill rather quickly. Enjoyed a Twitter spat where a Reformer in Chesterfield was foaming on about how her Labour council had put the tax up. "But Derbyshire set the tax and that's Reform" eventually wore down her insistent that the Labour-run Borough Council was actually responsible.

    People who are Fed Up have been coached that most council spending is a waste, is woke, is stupid, is Labour (and sometimes Tory) and REFORM will fix it by cutting the woke waste.

    To find Reform doing all the same things for all the same reasons is hugely damaging, especially when Reform take the worst of the Tories and add morons and bigots to the mix to create administrations which both spend money and deliver nothing?

    Reality always catches up with rhetoric, as the Tories found out.
    What is the reality then? Have you any evidence that 'it's all slid downhill rather quickly' in Reform-led councils, because I think if that were the case we'd have heard plenty about it here by now.

    As far as I am aware, Reform have made necessary and sensible economies, and the council tax rises they have implemented have been less than in councils controlled by other parties, but they haven't been able to touch the major burdens because the spend is mandated centrally.
    Apart from Worcestershire at 9%.
    I suspect Worcestershire has adopted the correct approach - massively increase council tax now so as the next local elections come around you can have a far lower increase than would otherwise be the case.

    As I said to @Taz regarding Durham I wouldn't have a 3% increase this year, because the risk is a 5% rise later, better to increase by 5% now so you have leeway to have a 3% cut later when the next election comes along.
    It was 2%, but, of course, if you increase by 5% year one then reduce each subsequent year rather than go the other way then, compounded, you get more.

    But they wanted bragging rights and I’m happy at the increase.
    Oh I know they want bragging rights - I just don't think it was very good politics and will come back to bite them before the next election...
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,756
    edited 3:34PM
    Taz said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    Chris Davies temporary replacement.

    Remember where you heard it first.

    Solves a difficult decision at Birmingham where he has tried to meet unfair expectation.
    Yeah, he’s done okay all things considered. We were never going to run away with the league again and expectation on him has been unrealistic.

    I’d keep him personally.
    I'd definitely keep him.

    He's a good young Coach.

    They recruited too many overseas players for instant success. They will mostly all be better players next season

    Ducksh
    Wagner

    Best buys in my opinion this season

    Wrexham went other way, solid over 30s who know the League they have done brilliantly but I think it's this year or bust for them whereas players like Neumann, Solis, Vicente and Priske will be far better next
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,715

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Included, or only included?
    From page 25

    "We used the School Level Database (SLD) from the ASC January 2013 to examine the
    variation in the proportion of EAL students at the school level. We selected all maintained,
    mainstream schools in England. Additionally we eliminated 32 very small maintained schools
    (10 or fewer students on roll). The resulting population contained 20,033 schools."
    Ok, thanks. So they don't know the difference between maintained schools and academies. That's a rocky start in terms of their credibility.
    From a quick googling around, there were a couple of thousand academies in 2013.

    Edit : the report is from 2015 and doesn't seem to have an axe to grind over immigration. More about identifying areas where support is required.

    Further Edit: they say - "Almost a quarter of all schools (22.1%) have less than 1% EAL, and over half (54%) have less than 5% of student with EAL. However at the other extreme 1,681 schools (8.4%) have a majority of students with EAL. This does not support headlines such as that in the Daily Telegraph (31/01/14) that "English is no longer the first language for the majority of pupils at one in nine schools"
    Right, so it's not the survey, it's Goodwin misusing it by presenting out of date material. I withdraw my slur on their credibility.
    I think it entirely possible that if a study found 1681 schools were found to have a majority on non-english speakers in 2013, that in 2026 the number is higher.

    Given that we have had lots of immigration in the last 13 year, probably inevitable. If you import lots of furriners, then you'll get lots of people talkiin' the furrin.

    So we just need to make sure we put enough resources into getting them up to speed in English. Which, according to the report has a direct, definite and completely unsurprising effect on educational attainment.

    Edit: Goodwin is still Badfail, of course.
    The report is interesting, and worth reading.

    And, yes, it is entirely possible -probable even- that the number of schools where English is not the first language has risen since 2013. However, what is likely to have changed significantly is who the parents are. Back in 2013, a lot of those parents (and kids) will have been from the EU Eastern European 8. Because that was where the majority of immigration was from.

    13 years later, we've left the EU, and net immigration from Eastern Europe is -IIRC- currently negative.

    Instead we've had the Boriswave, bringing mostly people from outside Europe. And I suspect that those immigrants have settled in different parts of the country.

    So there might well be an interesting 'switch' in where the majority non-English students are.

    (As an aside: I went to a majority non-English speaking school in Bedford. All my friends from there who spoke Urdu/Gujerati/etc at home when kids, speak English at home now. So their kids won't be from English as a second language kids.)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,854
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,756

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    Igor Tudor? What a great name.

    Like Vladimir Plantagenet, or Donald Putin.
    The greatest manager name was Wolfgang Wolf who managed Wolfsburg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Wolf
    As a player Willum Williumsson takes some beating
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 1,756

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    Igor Tudor? What a great name.

    Like Vladimir Plantagenet, or Donald Putin.
    The greatest manager name was Wolfgang Wolf who managed Wolfsburg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Wolf
    There was a Carpet Shop in Quarry Bank, Brierley Hill near Dudley named after the Owner who used his legal name.

    Walter Wall

    Not surprisingly he featured on Thats Life with Grant Baynham who I went to school with.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,533
    edited 3:43PM

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    This point from @ldfreedman.bsky.social (who's been in Washington this week) is key.

    Out of malice and stupidity the Trump administration has destroyed its own decision-making capabilities.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3mi6rghqvt72y

    And this hollowing out of the civil service, to be replaced by political appointees, is Reform’s policy for the UK.
    The public have had enough of experts, they want instinctive feelz.......until that hits reality, by when they still don't want experts, just someone else's instinctive feelz.
    If you bothered yourself to acquire some actual knowledge rather than 'instinctive feelz', you would know that the civil service has a deliberate policy of moving people from department to department too frequently to develop any expertise. Meaning not only are civil servants obstructionist and ideologically captured, they are are also not experts. Bringing outsiders in from the world of business would probably improve expertise as well as getting things done.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,032
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Reform are an all things to all people party - it's why they are popular..

    What the country needs is for them to win the 2026 local councils so they are found out while running them.
    Indeed - where Reform have taken power its all slid downhill rather quickly. Enjoyed a Twitter spat where a Reformer in Chesterfield was foaming on about how her Labour council had put the tax up. "But Derbyshire set the tax and that's Reform" eventually wore down her insistent that the Labour-run Borough Council was actually responsible.

    People who are Fed Up have been coached that most council spending is a waste, is woke, is stupid, is Labour (and sometimes Tory) and REFORM will fix it by cutting the woke waste.

    To find Reform doing all the same things for all the same reasons is hugely damaging, especially when Reform take the worst of the Tories and add morons and bigots to the mix to create administrations which both spend money and deliver nothing?

    Reality always catches up with rhetoric, as the Tories found out.
    What is the reality then? Have you any evidence that 'it's all slid downhill rather quickly' in Reform-led councils, because I think if that were the case we'd have heard plenty about it here by now.

    As far as I am aware, Reform have made necessary and sensible economies, and the council tax rises they have implemented have been less than in councils controlled by other parties, but they haven't been able to touch the major burdens because the spend is mandated centrally.
    Apart from Worcestershire at 9%.
    I suspect Worcestershire has adopted the correct approach - massively increase council tax now so as the next local elections come around you can have a far lower increase than would otherwise be the case.

    As I said to @Taz regarding Durham I wouldn't have a 3% increase this year, because the risk is a 5% rise later, better to increase by 5% now so you have leeway to have a 3% cut later when the next election comes along.
    It was 2%, but, of course, if you increase by 5% year one then reduce each subsequent year rather than go the other way then, compounded, you get more.

    But they wanted bragging rights and I’m happy at the increase.
    Oh I know they want bragging rights - I just don't think it was very good politics and will come back to bite them before the next election...
    Two bits here.

    One is the cynical politics; the electorally smart way to do taxes is to raise them at the start of your term, so you have the flex to cut them when an election comes round. Not necessarily admirable, but it's what everyone has always done.

    The other, much harder, question is whether Durham CC (or Kent CC, or anywhere else) works on the Reform budget. Everything so far has been the previous lot's plans and funding. Whether this budget is cutting waste or cutting things that are load-bearing remains to be seen.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,854

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree. If the settlers in the West Bank would agree to move to Gaza (very nice seaside location) and the Gazaians move to the West Bank to live unmolested with their brother Palestinians, it would be a good solution.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 78,285
    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    Will it die of oiled age?
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,168
    edited 3:50PM
    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    Different fractions of crude oil are used for different petroleum products. As it is distilled, petrol is obtained first at 25C, then naphtha, which is used to make chemicals, then kerosene for aviation fuel, etc., and finally bitumen at 350C. So what I imagine will happen is that we will use the same amount of oil, but the parts used for gasolene or jet fuel will be burned off, as they were before the internal combustion engine was invented, or used for other purposes.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,331

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    Igor Tudor? What a great name.

    Like Vladimir Plantagenet, or Donald Putin.
    The greatest manager name was Wolfgang Wolf who managed Wolfsburg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Wolf
    When I got my first football management sim game in the 90s, while still living abroad, I thought originally that Arsene managing Arsenal was one of those fake names that football games of that era often came up with.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,854

    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    There will come a time when we won't burn oil and gas for energy. I hope that time is quite soon. But it is not yet and the only reason we are leaving billions of barrels of oil in the ground in the North Sea is because of idiotic government ideology which claims it is better for the environment to use foreign oil and gas than it is to use our own.

    If you want to cut usage then deal with demand, not supply. All you are doing is making more pollution and paying more for the privilege.
    I agree
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,143

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    Igor Tudor? What a great name.

    Like Vladimir Plantagenet, or Donald Putin.
    The greatest manager name was Wolfgang Wolf who managed Wolfsburg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Wolf
    When I got my first football management sim game in the 90s, while still living abroad, I thought originally that Arsene managing Arsenal was one of those fake names that football games of that era often came up with.
    At the same time, Sammy McIlroy was managing Macclesfield.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,795
    Battlebus said:

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    9/10ths of a Truss.

    Have they paid for the Stand yet or will it be repossessed
    44 days is an iconic tenure because of Clough and Leeds.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,800
    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree. If the settlers in the West Bank would agree to move to Gaza (very nice seaside location) and the Gazaians move to the West Bank to live unmolested with their brother Palestinians, it would be a good solution.
    Separate Development? I believe it's a policy that has already been tried elsewhere.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 28,331

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    I mean, that's not the only bad news. The history to date is that Palestinians have not reconciled themselves to being pushed out of their land. So the conflict endures. So Israel has to keep pushing beyond its borders to push the enemy further away. But there is always a border, and always an enemy across it, and so the Empire has to continue to expand, lest it collapses.

    It is not a route to a stable peace.
    Not sure I agree.

    Go back ~80 years and the Arab world hated and would not recognise Israel.

    Israel has regularly sought peace though and attained it with many former enemies now living in peace with Israel.

    Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, UAE, Sudan and Morocco have all signed peace agreements with Israel.

    Saudi Arabia and others were reportedly close to it too, prior to the Hamas attacks.

    The main problem now is not Arab inspired violence, it is Iranian backed violence eg Hamas and Hezbollah.

    Either regime change in Iran, or a comprehensive defeat and disarmament of Hamas and Hezbollah, or the movement of people could lead to peace and stability
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,716

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    On Farage and Churchill, apparently Farage is not Right Wing and Churchill was a traitor.

    Comments on the David Frum video: "The Far-Right Algorithm: Anti-Churchill, Anti-West "


    @goyonman9655
    15 hours ago
    Farage is not a right-winger
    Stop this nonsense

    He says himself that his biggest achievment is stopping the Right.


    And churchill is a traitor who threw away the british empire over a atupid war

    This is In response to my restrained comment on Frum's overegging of putting squirrels on £5 notes being some kind of defenestration of our history:

    Frum's stuff about Churchill being taken off the £5 note as an attack on "suppressing history" is a vast, almost self-satirical, overreach.

    Churchill has only been on the £5 note since 2016, and the Bank of England consulted and we the people wanted natural history of the UK instead.

    It is only the crusty garden-shed Right-wingers like Farage & writers for the Spectator, and the extreme Right, who are getting excited about it.

    https://youtu.be/3sa_a98wvsI?t=1051

    Ah well !!

    "we the people"... a self-selecting survey, on par with a voodoo poll.
    Where does "voodoo poll" come from?
    A psephologist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?
  • eekeek Posts: 33,075

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Reform are an all things to all people party - it's why they are popular..

    What the country needs is for them to win the 2026 local councils so they are found out while running them.
    Indeed - where Reform have taken power its all slid downhill rather quickly. Enjoyed a Twitter spat where a Reformer in Chesterfield was foaming on about how her Labour council had put the tax up. "But Derbyshire set the tax and that's Reform" eventually wore down her insistent that the Labour-run Borough Council was actually responsible.

    People who are Fed Up have been coached that most council spending is a waste, is woke, is stupid, is Labour (and sometimes Tory) and REFORM will fix it by cutting the woke waste.

    To find Reform doing all the same things for all the same reasons is hugely damaging, especially when Reform take the worst of the Tories and add morons and bigots to the mix to create administrations which both spend money and deliver nothing?

    Reality always catches up with rhetoric, as the Tories found out.
    What is the reality then? Have you any evidence that 'it's all slid downhill rather quickly' in Reform-led councils, because I think if that were the case we'd have heard plenty about it here by now.

    As far as I am aware, Reform have made necessary and sensible economies, and the council tax rises they have implemented have been less than in councils controlled by other parties, but they haven't been able to touch the major burdens because the spend is mandated centrally.
    Apart from Worcestershire at 9%.
    I suspect Worcestershire has adopted the correct approach - massively increase council tax now so as the next local elections come around you can have a far lower increase than would otherwise be the case.

    As I said to @Taz regarding Durham I wouldn't have a 3% increase this year, because the risk is a 5% rise later, better to increase by 5% now so you have leeway to have a 3% cut later when the next election comes along.
    It was 2%, but, of course, if you increase by 5% year one then reduce each subsequent year rather than go the other way then, compounded, you get more.

    But they wanted bragging rights and I’m happy at the increase.
    Oh I know they want bragging rights - I just don't think it was very good politics and will come back to bite them before the next election...
    Two bits here.

    One is the cynical politics; the electorally smart way to do taxes is to raise them at the start of your term, so you have the flex to cut them when an election comes round. Not necessarily admirable, but it's what everyone has always done.

    The other, much harder, question is whether Durham CC (or Kent CC, or anywhere else) works on the Reform budget. Everything so far has been the previous lot's plans and funding. Whether this budget is cutting waste or cutting things that are load-bearing remains to be seen.
    In the case of Durham I suspect it's load bearing - one thing they've already done is remove the allowances that used to go to town councils...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,795
    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,257
    edited 4:05PM
    Fishing said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    Different fractions of crude oil are used for different petroleum products. As it is distilled, petrol is obtained first at 25C, then naphtha, which is used to make chemicals, then kerosene for aviation fuel, etc., and finally bitumen at 350C. So what I imagine will happen is that we will use the same amount of oil, but the parts used for gasolene or jet fuel will be burned off, as they were before the internal combustion engine was invented, or used for other purposes.
    This is the old way of doing things. But these days we are more able to 'recombine' fractions so there is no need to wste any of the product.

    Edit: Also worth pointing out that North Sea Oil is ideally suited for this sort of high end product as it is (generally) low in sulphur and has a higher API (the gravity of the oil which reflects its quality and potential uses). There are exceptions. The Tartan/Piper fields are notorious for being high in H2S. You can smell it as you land on the platform.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 34,257
    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    Will it die of oiled age?
    I have your coat...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,884
    Rather than borrowing £10-20bn more for more energy subsidies I'd rather HMG earmarked the £17bn the asphalt association estimates is needed to fix all the potholes in England and Wales and bring all the roads up to an acceptable standard.

    A functioning, safe, first-world road transport network that lasts should be a top priority of government rather than headline chasing and futile attempts to buck the market.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,032

    ydoethur said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    Will it die of oiled age?
    I have your coat...
    What's it made of- can we burn it for fuel?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,716

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    I mean, that's not the only bad news. The history to date is that Palestinians have not reconciled themselves to being pushed out of their land. So the conflict endures. So Israel has to keep pushing beyond its borders to push the enemy further away. But there is always a border, and always an enemy across it, and so the Empire has to continue to expand, lest it collapses.

    It is not a route to a stable peace.
    Not sure I agree.

    Go back ~80 years and the Arab world hated and would not recognise Israel.

    Israel has regularly sought peace though and attained it with many former enemies now living in peace with Israel.

    Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, UAE, Sudan and Morocco have all signed peace agreements with Israel.

    Saudi Arabia and others were reportedly close to it too, prior to the Hamas attacks.

    The main problem now is not Arab inspired violence, it is Iranian backed violence eg Hamas and Hezbollah.

    Either regime change in Iran, or a comprehensive defeat and disarmament of Hamas and Hezbollah, or the movement of people could lead to peace and stability
    From early on, the leadership of the Zionist movement had the idea of "transferring" (a euphemism for ethnic cleansing) the Arab Palestinian population out of the land for the purpose of establishing a Jewish demographic majority.[58][59][60][61][62] According to the Israeli historian Benny Morris, the idea of transfer was "inevitable and inbuilt into Zionism".[63]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,795

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    This point from @ldfreedman.bsky.social (who's been in Washington this week) is key.

    Out of malice and stupidity the Trump administration has destroyed its own decision-making capabilities.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3mi6rghqvt72y

    And this hollowing out of the civil service, to be replaced by political appointees, is Reform’s policy for the UK.
    The public have had enough of experts, they want instinctive feelz.......until that hits reality, by when they still don't want experts, just someone else's instinctive feelz.
    If you bothered yourself to acquire some actual knowledge rather than 'instinctive feelz', you would know that the civil service has a deliberate policy of moving people from department to department too frequently to develop any expertise. Meaning not only are civil servants obstructionist and ideologically captured, they are are also not experts. Bringing outsiders in from the world of business would probably improve expertise as well as getting things done.
    Trump and Witkoff are outsiders from the world of business.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 127,147
    edited 4:07PM

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    On Farage and Churchill, apparently Farage is not Right Wing and Churchill was a traitor.

    Comments on the David Frum video: "The Far-Right Algorithm: Anti-Churchill, Anti-West "


    @goyonman9655
    15 hours ago
    Farage is not a right-winger
    Stop this nonsense

    He says himself that his biggest achievment is stopping the Right.


    And churchill is a traitor who threw away the british empire over a atupid war

    This is In response to my restrained comment on Frum's overegging of putting squirrels on £5 notes being some kind of defenestration of our history:

    Frum's stuff about Churchill being taken off the £5 note as an attack on "suppressing history" is a vast, almost self-satirical, overreach.

    Churchill has only been on the £5 note since 2016, and the Bank of England consulted and we the people wanted natural history of the UK instead.

    It is only the crusty garden-shed Right-wingers like Farage & writers for the Spectator, and the extreme Right, who are getting excited about it.

    https://youtu.be/3sa_a98wvsI?t=1051

    Ah well !!

    "we the people"... a self-selecting survey, on par with a voodoo poll.
    Where does "voodoo poll" come from? I've never seen any evidence that Baron Samedi or Maman Brigitte endorse any polling methodologies, let alone self selected ones.
    The late great and lamented Sir Bob Worcester came up with the term in the 1990s.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 22,032
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    dixiedean said:

    eek said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Reform are an all things to all people party - it's why they are popular..

    What the country needs is for them to win the 2026 local councils so they are found out while running them.
    Indeed - where Reform have taken power its all slid downhill rather quickly. Enjoyed a Twitter spat where a Reformer in Chesterfield was foaming on about how her Labour council had put the tax up. "But Derbyshire set the tax and that's Reform" eventually wore down her insistent that the Labour-run Borough Council was actually responsible.

    People who are Fed Up have been coached that most council spending is a waste, is woke, is stupid, is Labour (and sometimes Tory) and REFORM will fix it by cutting the woke waste.

    To find Reform doing all the same things for all the same reasons is hugely damaging, especially when Reform take the worst of the Tories and add morons and bigots to the mix to create administrations which both spend money and deliver nothing?

    Reality always catches up with rhetoric, as the Tories found out.
    What is the reality then? Have you any evidence that 'it's all slid downhill rather quickly' in Reform-led councils, because I think if that were the case we'd have heard plenty about it here by now.

    As far as I am aware, Reform have made necessary and sensible economies, and the council tax rises they have implemented have been less than in councils controlled by other parties, but they haven't been able to touch the major burdens because the spend is mandated centrally.
    Apart from Worcestershire at 9%.
    I suspect Worcestershire has adopted the correct approach - massively increase council tax now so as the next local elections come around you can have a far lower increase than would otherwise be the case.

    As I said to @Taz regarding Durham I wouldn't have a 3% increase this year, because the risk is a 5% rise later, better to increase by 5% now so you have leeway to have a 3% cut later when the next election comes along.
    It was 2%, but, of course, if you increase by 5% year one then reduce each subsequent year rather than go the other way then, compounded, you get more.

    But they wanted bragging rights and I’m happy at the increase.
    Oh I know they want bragging rights - I just don't think it was very good politics and will come back to bite them before the next election...
    Two bits here.

    One is the cynical politics; the electorally smart way to do taxes is to raise them at the start of your term, so you have the flex to cut them when an election comes round. Not necessarily admirable, but it's what everyone has always done.

    The other, much harder, question is whether Durham CC (or Kent CC, or anywhere else) works on the Reform budget. Everything so far has been the previous lot's plans and funding. Whether this budget is cutting waste or cutting things that are load-bearing remains to be seen.
    In the case of Durham I suspect it's load bearing - one thing they've already done is remove the allowances that used to go to town councils...
    That sounds familiar.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 17,143
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Included, or only included?
    From page 25

    "We used the School Level Database (SLD) from the ASC January 2013 to examine the
    variation in the proportion of EAL students at the school level. We selected all maintained,
    mainstream schools in England. Additionally we eliminated 32 very small maintained schools
    (10 or fewer students on roll). The resulting population contained 20,033 schools."
    Ok, thanks. So they don't know the difference between maintained schools and academies. That's a rocky start in terms of their credibility.
    From a quick googling around, there were a couple of thousand academies in 2013.

    Edit : the report is from 2015 and doesn't seem to have an axe to grind over immigration. More about identifying areas where support is required.

    Further Edit: they say - "Almost a quarter of all schools (22.1%) have less than 1% EAL, and over half (54%) have less than 5% of student with EAL. However at the other extreme 1,681 schools (8.4%) have a majority of students with EAL. This does not support headlines such as that in the Daily Telegraph (31/01/14) that "English is no longer the first language for the majority of pupils at one in nine schools"
    Right, so it's not the survey, it's Goodwin misusing it by presenting out of date material. I withdraw my slur on their credibility.
    I think it entirely possible that if a study found 1681 schools were found to have a majority on non-english speakers in 2013, that in 2026 the number is higher.

    Given that we have had lots of immigration in the last 13 year, probably inevitable. If you import lots of furriners, then you'll get lots of people talkiin' the furrin.

    So we just need to make sure we put enough resources into getting them up to speed in English. Which, according to the report has a direct, definite and completely unsurprising effect on educational attainment.

    Edit: Goodwin is still Badfail, of course.
    The report is interesting, and worth reading.

    And, yes, it is entirely possible -probable even- that the number of schools where English is not the first language has risen since 2013. However, what is likely to have changed significantly is who the parents are. Back in 2013, a lot of those parents (and kids) will have been from the EU Eastern European 8. Because that was where the majority of immigration was from.

    13 years later, we've left the EU, and net immigration from Eastern Europe is -IIRC- currently negative.

    Instead we've had the Boriswave, bringing mostly people from outside Europe. And I suspect that those immigrants have settled in different parts of the country.

    So there might well be an interesting 'switch' in where the majority non-English students are.

    (As an aside: I went to a majority non-English speaking school in Bedford. All my friends from there who spoke Urdu/Gujerati/etc at home when kids, speak English at home now. So their kids won't be from English as a second language kids.)
    My kids' primary school has gone from negligible EASL to c.50% EASL in the 11 years I have been a parent there.
    I should stress that they are largely the sort of EASL kids who ate very much tryimg to learn English and to integrate - HK and Indian are the top two nationalities. I live in a comfortable middle class area and realistically *difficult* immigrants are priced out.

    However I do know quite a bit about a school with a less favourable experience in a deprived area of South Yorkshire: 60% of the kids there are Roma from Slovakia, typically:
    - from families where no women and under 10% of men are economically active
    - living upwards of 12 people to an unfurnished two bedroom house
    - from families where education is in no way value
    - from two villages in Slovakia which are functionally at war with each other.
    They are here living in these conditions because, incredibly, life in Slovakian Roma villages is much, much worse. Seriously. Google them. And because they face much less discrimination here than in Slovakia. But they have no sense of permanence or investment in the UK, and are constantly sparring with the authorities over crime and benefit fraud.

    In these conditions education is challenging.

    Of the 40% who are not Roma, the next most prominent ethnic group are Somali.

    So, the experience of education at majority EASL schools is variable.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,854
    Fishing said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    Different fractions of crude oil are used for different petroleum products. As it is distilled, petrol is obtained first at 25C, then naphtha, which is used to make chemicals, then kerosene for aviation fuel, etc., and finally bitumen at 350C. So what I imagine will happen is that we will use the same amount of oil, but the parts used for gasolene or jet fuel will be burned off, as they were before the internal combustion engine was invented, or used for other purposes.
    If the need is bitumen for roads then distil the oil sands of Venezuela and leave the lighter oils in the ground.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,058
    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    Sainsbury's advertise them. Don't they have them?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,588
    edited 4:15PM
    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    What was your original request? I posted some fresh sardines the other day thinking that's what you were looking for...
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,854
    Battlebus said:

    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree. If the settlers in the West Bank would agree to move to Gaza (very nice seaside location) and the Gazaians move to the West Bank to live unmolested with their brother Palestinians, it would be a good solution.
    Separate Development? I believe it's a policy that has already been tried elsewhere.
    It's the Two State solution with two states rather than the fractured three states that Netanyahu promoted supporting Hamas against the PLO.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,715
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Included, or only included?
    From page 25

    "We used the School Level Database (SLD) from the ASC January 2013 to examine the
    variation in the proportion of EAL students at the school level. We selected all maintained,
    mainstream schools in England. Additionally we eliminated 32 very small maintained schools
    (10 or fewer students on roll). The resulting population contained 20,033 schools."
    Ok, thanks. So they don't know the difference between maintained schools and academies. That's a rocky start in terms of their credibility.
    From a quick googling around, there were a couple of thousand academies in 2013.

    Edit : the report is from 2015 and doesn't seem to have an axe to grind over immigration. More about identifying areas where support is required.

    Further Edit: they say - "Almost a quarter of all schools (22.1%) have less than 1% EAL, and over half (54%) have less than 5% of student with EAL. However at the other extreme 1,681 schools (8.4%) have a majority of students with EAL. This does not support headlines such as that in the Daily Telegraph (31/01/14) that "English is no longer the first language for the majority of pupils at one in nine schools"
    Right, so it's not the survey, it's Goodwin misusing it by presenting out of date material. I withdraw my slur on their credibility.
    I think it entirely possible that if a study found 1681 schools were found to have a majority on non-english speakers in 2013, that in 2026 the number is higher.

    Given that we have had lots of immigration in the last 13 year, probably inevitable. If you import lots of furriners, then you'll get lots of people talkiin' the furrin.

    So we just need to make sure we put enough resources into getting them up to speed in English. Which, according to the report has a direct, definite and completely unsurprising effect on educational attainment.

    Edit: Goodwin is still Badfail, of course.
    The report is interesting, and worth reading.

    And, yes, it is entirely possible -probable even- that the number of schools where English is not the first language has risen since 2013. However, what is likely to have changed significantly is who the parents are. Back in 2013, a lot of those parents (and kids) will have been from the EU Eastern European 8. Because that was where the majority of immigration was from.

    13 years later, we've left the EU, and net immigration from Eastern Europe is -IIRC- currently negative.

    Instead we've had the Boriswave, bringing mostly people from outside Europe. And I suspect that those immigrants have settled in different parts of the country.

    So there might well be an interesting 'switch' in where the majority non-English students are.

    (As an aside: I went to a majority non-English speaking school in Bedford. All my friends from there who spoke Urdu/Gujerati/etc at home when kids, speak English at home now. So their kids won't be from English as a second language kids.)
    My kids' primary school has gone from negligible EASL to c.50% EASL in the 11 years I have been a parent there.
    I should stress that they are largely the sort of EASL kids who ate very much tryimg to learn English and to integrate - HK and Indian are the top two nationalities. I live in a comfortable middle class area and realistically *difficult* immigrants are priced out.

    However I do know quite a bit about a school with a less favourable experience in a deprived area of South Yorkshire: 60% of the kids there are Roma from Slovakia, typically:
    - from families where no women and under 10% of men are economically active
    - living upwards of 12 people to an unfurnished two bedroom house
    - from families where education is in no way value
    - from two villages in Slovakia which are functionally at war with each other.
    They are here living in these conditions because, incredibly, life in Slovakian Roma villages is much, much worse. Seriously. Google them. And because they face much less discrimination here than in Slovakia. But they have no sense of permanence or investment in the UK, and are constantly sparring with the authorities over crime and benefit fraud.

    In these conditions education is challenging.

    Of the 40% who are not Roma, the next most prominent ethnic group are Somali.

    So, the experience of education at majority EASL schools is variable.
    Yeah, the school I went to was very much at the deprived end of the scale: mostly kids of first generation Pakistani and Bangladeshi kids.

    On the other hand, out of a sixth form of maybe 60 kids doing A-Levels, we got four people into Oxbridge. And the only one not to go was a girl from a religious Muslim family who decided she didn't want to go to college 30 minutes from her parents, and headed off to Edinburgh so she could be away from them.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,995
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Included, or only included?
    From page 25

    "We used the School Level Database (SLD) from the ASC January 2013 to examine the
    variation in the proportion of EAL students at the school level. We selected all maintained,
    mainstream schools in England. Additionally we eliminated 32 very small maintained schools
    (10 or fewer students on roll). The resulting population contained 20,033 schools."
    Ok, thanks. So they don't know the difference between maintained schools and academies. That's a rocky start in terms of their credibility.
    From a quick googling around, there were a couple of thousand academies in 2013.

    Edit : the report is from 2015 and doesn't seem to have an axe to grind over immigration. More about identifying areas where support is required.

    Further Edit: they say - "Almost a quarter of all schools (22.1%) have less than 1% EAL, and over half (54%) have less than 5% of student with EAL. However at the other extreme 1,681 schools (8.4%) have a majority of students with EAL. This does not support headlines such as that in the Daily Telegraph (31/01/14) that "English is no longer the first language for the majority of pupils at one in nine schools"
    Right, so it's not the survey, it's Goodwin misusing it by presenting out of date material. I withdraw my slur on their credibility.
    I think it entirely possible that if a study found 1681 schools were found to have a majority on non-english speakers in 2013, that in 2026 the number is higher.

    Given that we have had lots of immigration in the last 13 year, probably inevitable. If you import lots of furriners, then you'll get lots of people talkiin' the furrin.

    So we just need to make sure we put enough resources into getting them up to speed in English. Which, according to the report has a direct, definite and completely unsurprising effect on educational attainment.

    Edit: Goodwin is still Badfail, of course.
    The report is interesting, and worth reading.

    And, yes, it is entirely possible -probable even- that the number of schools where English is not the first language has risen since 2013. However, what is likely to have changed significantly is who the parents are. Back in 2013, a lot of those parents (and kids) will have been from the EU Eastern European 8. Because that was where the majority of immigration was from.

    13 years later, we've left the EU, and net immigration from Eastern Europe is -IIRC- currently negative.

    Instead we've had the Boriswave, bringing mostly people from outside Europe. And I suspect that those immigrants have settled in different parts of the country.

    So there might well be an interesting 'switch' in where the majority non-English students are.

    (As an aside: I went to a majority non-English speaking school in Bedford. All my friends from there who spoke Urdu/Gujerati/etc at home when kids, speak English at home now. So their kids won't be from English as a second language kids.)
    My kids' primary school has gone from negligible EASL to c.50% EASL in the 11 years I have been a parent there.
    I should stress that they are largely the sort of EASL kids who ate very much tryimg to learn English and to integrate - HK and Indian are the top two nationalities. I live in a comfortable middle class area and realistically *difficult* immigrants are priced out.

    However I do know quite a bit about a school with a less favourable experience in a deprived area of South Yorkshire: 60% of the kids there are Roma from Slovakia, typically:
    - from families where no women and under 10% of men are economically active
    - living upwards of 12 people to an unfurnished two bedroom house
    - from families where education is in no way value
    - from two villages in Slovakia which are functionally at war with each other.
    They are here living in these conditions because, incredibly, life in Slovakian Roma villages is much, much worse. Seriously. Google them. And because they face much less discrimination here than in Slovakia. But they have no sense of permanence or investment in the UK, and are constantly sparring with the authorities over crime and benefit fraud.

    In these conditions education is challenging.

    Of the 40% who are not Roma, the next most prominent ethnic group are Somali.

    So, the experience of education at majority EASL schools is variable.
    Quite a challenging school there, Mr C. Don't envy the staff, but it's quite possible that some of the children will be able to develop into good citizens.
    You don't say whether it's a primary or secondary school, though. "Improvement" will be more likely if the former is the case.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,588
    Foxy said:

    I see our Islamist mayor of London is encouraging public prayer in Trafalgar square again.

    https://bsky.app/profile/london.gov.uk/post/3mi74jz6vz22k

    Presumably we will hear from Kemi soon to condemn it.

    It's the established religion. Perhaps it shouldn't be, but it is.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,962
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Included, or only included?
    From page 25

    "We used the School Level Database (SLD) from the ASC January 2013 to examine the
    variation in the proportion of EAL students at the school level. We selected all maintained,
    mainstream schools in England. Additionally we eliminated 32 very small maintained schools
    (10 or fewer students on roll). The resulting population contained 20,033 schools."
    Ok, thanks. So they don't know the difference between maintained schools and academies. That's a rocky start in terms of their credibility.
    From a quick googling around, there were a couple of thousand academies in 2013.

    Edit : the report is from 2015 and doesn't seem to have an axe to grind over immigration. More about identifying areas where support is required.

    Further Edit: they say - "Almost a quarter of all schools (22.1%) have less than 1% EAL, and over half (54%) have less than 5% of student with EAL. However at the other extreme 1,681 schools (8.4%) have a majority of students with EAL. This does not support headlines such as that in the Daily Telegraph (31/01/14) that "English is no longer the first language for the majority of pupils at one in nine schools"
    Right, so it's not the survey, it's Goodwin misusing it by presenting out of date material. I withdraw my slur on their credibility.
    I think it entirely possible that if a study found 1681 schools were found to have a majority on non-english speakers in 2013, that in 2026 the number is higher.

    Given that we have had lots of immigration in the last 13 year, probably inevitable. If you import lots of furriners, then you'll get lots of people talkiin' the furrin.

    So we just need to make sure we put enough resources into getting them up to speed in English. Which, according to the report has a direct, definite and completely unsurprising effect on educational attainment.

    Edit: Goodwin is still Badfail, of course.
    The report is interesting, and worth reading.

    And, yes, it is entirely possible -probable even- that the number of schools where English is not the first language has risen since 2013. However, what is likely to have changed significantly is who the parents are. Back in 2013, a lot of those parents (and kids) will have been from the EU Eastern European 8. Because that was where the majority of immigration was from.

    13 years later, we've left the EU, and net immigration from Eastern Europe is -IIRC- currently negative.

    Instead we've had the Boriswave, bringing mostly people from outside Europe. And I suspect that those immigrants have settled in different parts of the country.

    So there might well be an interesting 'switch' in where the majority non-English students are.

    (As an aside: I went to a majority non-English speaking school in Bedford. All my friends from there who spoke Urdu/Gujerati/etc at home when kids, speak English at home now. So their kids won't be from English as a second language kids.)
    My kids' primary school has gone from negligible EASL to c.50% EASL in the 11 years I have been a parent there.
    I should stress that they are largely the sort of EASL kids who ate very much tryimg to learn English and to integrate - HK and Indian are the top two nationalities. I live in a comfortable middle class area and realistically *difficult* immigrants are priced out.

    However I do know quite a bit about a school with a less favourable experience in a deprived area of South Yorkshire: 60% of the kids there are Roma from Slovakia, typically:
    - from families where no women and under 10% of men are economically active
    - living upwards of 12 people to an unfurnished two bedroom house
    - from families where education is in no way value
    - from two villages in Slovakia which are functionally at war with each other.
    They are here living in these conditions because, incredibly, life in Slovakian Roma villages is much, much worse. Seriously. Google them. And because they face much less discrimination here than in Slovakia. But they have no sense of permanence or investment in the UK, and are constantly sparring with the authorities over crime and benefit fraud.

    In these conditions education is challenging.

    Of the 40% who are not Roma, the next most prominent ethnic group are Somali.

    So, the experience of education at majority EASL schools is variable.
    When free movement happened under Blair, there were some quite extreme occurrences. Places in Eastern Europe expelled their “problem communities” - such as Roma. Literally put them on the bus.

    I remember being astonished that such behaviour passed without comment from the U.K. government.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,795
    AnneJGP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    Sainsbury's advertise them. Don't they have them?
    Just the ones in tomato sauce. I'll keep at it though.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,995
    Foxy said:

    I see our Islamist mayor of London is encouraging public prayer in Trafalgar square again.

    https://bsky.app/profile/london.gov.uk/post/3mi74jz6vz22k

    Presumably we will hear from Kemi soon to condemn it.

    We had Jehovahs Witnesses' canvassing across the road from one of our pubs on Saturday morning.

    I made an excuse and left!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,716
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    I see our Islamist mayor of London is encouraging public prayer in Trafalgar square again.

    https://bsky.app/profile/london.gov.uk/post/3mi74jz6vz22k

    Presumably we will hear from Kemi soon to condemn it.

    It's the established religion. Perhaps it shouldn't be, but it is.
    Also came over from the Middle East.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,722

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    On Farage and Churchill, apparently Farage is not Right Wing and Churchill was a traitor.

    Comments on the David Frum video: "The Far-Right Algorithm: Anti-Churchill, Anti-West "


    @goyonman9655
    15 hours ago
    Farage is not a right-winger
    Stop this nonsense

    He says himself that his biggest achievment is stopping the Right.


    And churchill is a traitor who threw away the british empire over a atupid war

    This is In response to my restrained comment on Frum's overegging of putting squirrels on £5 notes being some kind of defenestration of our history:

    Frum's stuff about Churchill being taken off the £5 note as an attack on "suppressing history" is a vast, almost self-satirical, overreach.

    Churchill has only been on the £5 note since 2016, and the Bank of England consulted and we the people wanted natural history of the UK instead.

    It is only the crusty garden-shed Right-wingers like Farage & writers for the Spectator, and the extreme Right, who are getting excited about it.

    https://youtu.be/3sa_a98wvsI?t=1051

    Ah well !!

    "we the people"... a self-selecting survey, on par with a voodoo poll.
    Where does "voodoo poll" come from? I've never seen any evidence that Baron Samedi or Maman Brigitte endorse any polling methodologies, let alone self selected ones.
    The late great and lamented Sir Bob Worcester came up with the term in the 1990s.
    I assume he got the idea from George H.W. Bush who coined "voodoo economics"
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,058
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Included, or only included?
    From page 25

    "We used the School Level Database (SLD) from the ASC January 2013 to examine the
    variation in the proportion of EAL students at the school level. We selected all maintained,
    mainstream schools in England. Additionally we eliminated 32 very small maintained schools
    (10 or fewer students on roll). The resulting population contained 20,033 schools."
    Ok, thanks. So they don't know the difference between maintained schools and academies. That's a rocky start in terms of their credibility.
    From a quick googling around, there were a couple of thousand academies in 2013.

    Edit : the report is from 2015 and doesn't seem to have an axe to grind over immigration. More about identifying areas where support is required.

    Further Edit: they say - "Almost a quarter of all schools (22.1%) have less than 1% EAL, and over half (54%) have less than 5% of student with EAL. However at the other extreme 1,681 schools (8.4%) have a majority of students with EAL. This does not support headlines such as that in the Daily Telegraph (31/01/14) that "English is no longer the first language for the majority of pupils at one in nine schools"
    Right, so it's not the survey, it's Goodwin misusing it by presenting out of date material. I withdraw my slur on their credibility.
    I think it entirely possible that if a study found 1681 schools were found to have a majority on non-english speakers in 2013, that in 2026 the number is higher.

    Given that we have had lots of immigration in the last 13 year, probably inevitable. If you import lots of furriners, then you'll get lots of people talkiin' the furrin.

    So we just need to make sure we put enough resources into getting them up to speed in English. Which, according to the report has a direct, definite and completely unsurprising effect on educational attainment.

    Edit: Goodwin is still Badfail, of course.
    The report is interesting, and worth reading.

    And, yes, it is entirely possible -probable even- that the number of schools where English is not the first language has risen since 2013. However, what is likely to have changed significantly is who the parents are. Back in 2013, a lot of those parents (and kids) will have been from the EU Eastern European 8. Because that was where the majority of immigration was from.

    13 years later, we've left the EU, and net immigration from Eastern Europe is -IIRC- currently negative.

    Instead we've had the Boriswave, bringing mostly people from outside Europe. And I suspect that those immigrants have settled in different parts of the country.

    So there might well be an interesting 'switch' in where the majority non-English students are.

    (As an aside: I went to a majority non-English speaking school in Bedford. All my friends from there who spoke Urdu/Gujerati/etc at home when kids, speak English at home now. So their kids won't be from English as a second language kids.)
    My kids' primary school has gone from negligible EASL to c.50% EASL in the 11 years I have been a parent there.
    I should stress that they are largely the sort of EASL kids who ate very much tryimg to learn English and to integrate - HK and Indian are the top two nationalities. I live in a comfortable middle class area and realistically *difficult* immigrants are priced out.

    However I do know quite a bit about a school with a less favourable experience in a deprived area of South Yorkshire: 60% of the kids there are Roma from Slovakia, typically:
    - from families where no women and under 10% of men are economically active
    - living upwards of 12 people to an unfurnished two bedroom house
    - from families where education is in no way value
    - from two villages in Slovakia which are functionally at war with each other.
    They are here living in these conditions because, incredibly, life in Slovakian Roma villages is much, much worse. Seriously. Google them. And because they face much less discrimination here than in Slovakia. But they have no sense of permanence or investment in the UK, and are constantly sparring with the authorities over crime and benefit fraud.

    In these conditions education is challenging.

    Of the 40% who are not Roma, the next most prominent ethnic group are Somali.

    So, the experience of education at majority EASL schools is variable.
    It would be very encouraging to hear that the indigenous children (if any) thrive under those circumstances.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,058
    kinabalu said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    Sainsbury's advertise them. Don't they have them?
    Just the ones in tomato sauce. I'll keep at it though.
    Their website let me add them to my trolley, so they must be normally stocked round here (Teignbridge).
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,973
    Foxy said:

    I see our Islamist mayor of London is encouraging public prayer in Trafalgar square again.

    https://bsky.app/profile/london.gov.uk/post/3mi74jz6vz22k

    Presumably we will hear from Kemi soon to condemn it.

    Designed to intimidate, all those people dressed up in weird robes.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,800
    Barnesian said:

    Battlebus said:

    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree. If the settlers in the West Bank would agree to move to Gaza (very nice seaside location) and the Gazaians move to the West Bank to live unmolested with their brother Palestinians, it would be a good solution.
    Separate Development? I believe it's a policy that has already been tried elsewhere.
    It's the Two State solution with two states rather than the fractured three states that Netanyahu promoted supporting Hamas against the PLO.
    Two States, if they were truly States would be able to have their own Standing Armies? Would you see this as your solution and if not, why not?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 5,058
    @viewcode Many thanks for your responses on the earlier thread Your friend Susan. A lot more work gone into that.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 5,207

    Fishing said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    Different fractions of crude oil are used for different petroleum products. As it is distilled, petrol is obtained first at 25C, then naphtha, which is used to make chemicals, then kerosene for aviation fuel, etc., and finally bitumen at 350C. So what I imagine will happen is that we will use the same amount of oil, but the parts used for gasolene or jet fuel will be burned off, as they were before the internal combustion engine was invented, or used for other purposes.
    This is the old way of doing things. But these days we are more able to 'recombine' fractions so there is no need to wste any of the product.

    Edit: Also worth pointing out that North Sea Oil is ideally suited for this sort of high end product as it is (generally) low in sulphur and has a higher API (the gravity of the oil which reflects its quality and potential uses). There are exceptions. The Tartan/Piper fields are notorious for being high in H2S. You can smell it as you land on the platform.
    The bit I don't understand is why so many people are so keen to extract and burn our relatively modest reserves of oil and gas when they will be desperately needed for chemicals, pharmaceuticals, fertilizers, etc. in the future. Surely the sensible thing to do would be to extract them as judiciously as possible so that our children are not left completely at the mercy of foreign powers with more reserves when ours have run dry (so to speak, I know it's not as simple as that)?
  • ScarpiaScarpia Posts: 98
    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    Lidl do them. They've also got (last week) frozen whole sardines.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,854
    Battlebus said:

    Barnesian said:

    Battlebus said:

    Barnesian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree. If the settlers in the West Bank would agree to move to Gaza (very nice seaside location) and the Gazaians move to the West Bank to live unmolested with their brother Palestinians, it would be a good solution.
    Separate Development? I believe it's a policy that has already been tried elsewhere.
    It's the Two State solution with two states rather than the fractured three states that Netanyahu promoted supporting Hamas against the PLO.
    Two States, if they were truly States would be able to have their own Standing Armies? Would you see this as your solution and if not, why not?
    Yes
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,979

    Fishing said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    Different fractions of crude oil are used for different petroleum products. As it is distilled, petrol is obtained first at 25C, then naphtha, which is used to make chemicals, then kerosene for aviation fuel, etc., and finally bitumen at 350C. So what I imagine will happen is that we will use the same amount of oil, but the parts used for gasolene or jet fuel will be burned off, as they were before the internal combustion engine was invented, or used for other purposes.
    This is the old way of doing things. But these days we are more able to 'recombine' fractions so there is no need to wste any of the product.

    Edit: Also worth pointing out that North Sea Oil is ideally suited for this sort of high end product as it is (generally) low in sulphur and has a higher API (the gravity of the oil which reflects its quality and potential uses). There are exceptions. The Tartan/Piper fields are notorious for being high in H2S. You can smell it as you land on the platform.
    The bit I don't understand is why so many people are so keen to extract and burn our relatively modest reserves of oil and gas when they will be desperately needed for chemicals, pharmaceuticals, fertilizers, etc. in the future. Surely the sensible thing to do would be to extract them as judiciously as possible so that our children are not left completely at the mercy of foreign powers with more reserves when ours have run dry (so to speak, I know it's not as simple as that)?
    And what about their children, etc, etc?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 61,962

    Fishing said:

    Barnesian said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    Yes - the stone age didn't end when we ran out of stone.

    The oil age won't end by us running out of oil.
    There will still be oil left in the ground. It will be uneconomic to recover it.
    That could be quite soon for most oil.
    There will be a residual need for oil (pharmaceuticals, maybe plastics) just as there is a residual need for stone (roads, buildings).
    But the oil age will end soon.
    Different fractions of crude oil are used for different petroleum products. As it is distilled, petrol is obtained first at 25C, then naphtha, which is used to make chemicals, then kerosene for aviation fuel, etc., and finally bitumen at 350C. So what I imagine will happen is that we will use the same amount of oil, but the parts used for gasolene or jet fuel will be burned off, as they were before the internal combustion engine was invented, or used for other purposes.
    This is the old way of doing things. But these days we are more able to 'recombine' fractions so there is no need to wste any of the product.

    Edit: Also worth pointing out that North Sea Oil is ideally suited for this sort of high end product as it is (generally) low in sulphur and has a higher API (the gravity of the oil which reflects its quality and potential uses). There are exceptions. The Tartan/Piper fields are notorious for being high in H2S. You can smell it as you land on the platform.
    The bit I don't understand is why so many people are so keen to extract and burn our relatively modest reserves of oil and gas when they will be desperately needed for chemicals, pharmaceuticals, fertilizers, etc. in the future. Surely the sensible thing to do would be to extract them as judiciously as possible so that our children are not left completely at the mercy of foreign powers with more reserves when ours have run dry (so to speak, I know it's not as simple as that)?
    If you shut in production now, then restarting the fields in the future will be vastly more expensive.

    Meanwhile, the Norwegians…
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,716
    Scarpia said:

    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    Lidl do them. They've also got (last week) frozen whole sardines.
    I mentioned that a few days ago!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,716
    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    On Farage and Churchill, apparently Farage is not Right Wing and Churchill was a traitor.

    Comments on the David Frum video: "The Far-Right Algorithm: Anti-Churchill, Anti-West "


    @goyonman9655
    15 hours ago
    Farage is not a right-winger
    Stop this nonsense

    He says himself that his biggest achievment is stopping the Right.


    And churchill is a traitor who threw away the british empire over a atupid war

    This is In response to my restrained comment on Frum's overegging of putting squirrels on £5 notes being some kind of defenestration of our history:

    Frum's stuff about Churchill being taken off the £5 note as an attack on "suppressing history" is a vast, almost self-satirical, overreach.

    Churchill has only been on the £5 note since 2016, and the Bank of England consulted and we the people wanted natural history of the UK instead.

    It is only the crusty garden-shed Right-wingers like Farage & writers for the Spectator, and the extreme Right, who are getting excited about it.

    https://youtu.be/3sa_a98wvsI?t=1051

    Ah well !!

    "we the people"... a self-selecting survey, on par with a voodoo poll.
    Where does "voodoo poll" come from? I've never seen any evidence that Baron Samedi or Maman Brigitte endorse any polling methodologies, let alone self selected ones.
    The late great and lamented Sir Bob Worcester came up with the term in the 1990s.
    I assume he got the idea from George H.W. Bush who coined "voodoo economics"
    Did you hear about the economist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 28,104
    AnneJGP said:

    @viewcode Many thanks for your responses on the earlier thread Your friend Susan. A lot more work gone into that.

    You're welcome. The advantage of finishing it is that I can now turn my attention to the next article, although I'll probably take Easter off :)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,715

    CatMan said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    On Farage and Churchill, apparently Farage is not Right Wing and Churchill was a traitor.

    Comments on the David Frum video: "The Far-Right Algorithm: Anti-Churchill, Anti-West "


    @goyonman9655
    15 hours ago
    Farage is not a right-winger
    Stop this nonsense

    He says himself that his biggest achievment is stopping the Right.


    And churchill is a traitor who threw away the british empire over a atupid war

    This is In response to my restrained comment on Frum's overegging of putting squirrels on £5 notes being some kind of defenestration of our history:

    Frum's stuff about Churchill being taken off the £5 note as an attack on "suppressing history" is a vast, almost self-satirical, overreach.

    Churchill has only been on the £5 note since 2016, and the Bank of England consulted and we the people wanted natural history of the UK instead.

    It is only the crusty garden-shed Right-wingers like Farage & writers for the Spectator, and the extreme Right, who are getting excited about it.

    https://youtu.be/3sa_a98wvsI?t=1051

    Ah well !!

    "we the people"... a self-selecting survey, on par with a voodoo poll.
    Where does "voodoo poll" come from? I've never seen any evidence that Baron Samedi or Maman Brigitte endorse any polling methodologies, let alone self selected ones.
    The late great and lamented Sir Bob Worcester came up with the term in the 1990s.
    I assume he got the idea from George H.W. Bush who coined "voodoo economics"
    Did you hear about the economist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?
    Doesn't need to be from Warsaw now...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 58,716

    Foxy said:

    I see our Islamist mayor of London is encouraging public prayer in Trafalgar square again.

    https://bsky.app/profile/london.gov.uk/post/3mi74jz6vz22k

    Presumably we will hear from Kemi soon to condemn it.

    We had Jehovahs Witnesses' canvassing across the road from one of our pubs on Saturday morning.

    I made an excuse and left!
    "You know who else didn't like the Jehovah's Witnesses...?"
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,063
    @petermiles.eurosky.social‬

    Interesting chart via @nixonsimon.bsky.social on a "Pressure Index" developed by Deutsche Bank to measure Trump's propensity to TACO.

    https://bsky.app/profile/petermiles.eurosky.social/post/3mi7mpaqcbs2j
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 43,063

    Did you hear about the economist from Warsaw who moved to Haiti?

    Did you hear about the East German pole vault champion?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 58,509
    edited 5:20PM
    Would Europe be able to defend itself against Russian (or Ukrainian) drones?

    https://x.com/alexstubb/status/2038301369958891788

    This morning, drones have strayed into Finnish territory. One of the drones has been confirmed to be Ukrainian in origin.

    I want to emphasize that there is no military threat to Finland.

    Our authorities reacted to the situation immediately. I thank the authorities for their efficient action.

    The investigation of the incident continues. We are monitoring the situation closely. The authorities maintain readiness to react to future incidents. Finland stands ready to monitor and protect its territory.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,795
    AnneJGP said:

    kinabalu said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    Sainsbury's advertise them. Don't they have them?
    Just the ones in tomato sauce. I'll keep at it though.
    Their website let me add them to my trolley, so they must be normally stocked round here (Teignbridge).
    Interesting and hope inducing. But let's see if they are delivered rather than substituted with something close but not quite.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,533

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree with the Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post. There's no future in Gaza for the Palestinians, and Israel cannot really have a deeply resentful armed enclave like that.

    BUT the corollary to that must be that Gaza residents are moved to the West Bank, and Israeli settlers moved out, never to return. That way, the Israelis no longer have a Gaza problem, and the Palestinians no longer have a settler problem. Everyone gets something good, nobody gets everything they want.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 87,634
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    You really are ignorant and quite nasty

    How to influence people and persuade them is not your greatest gift

    You are unable to admit when you are wrong
    Ha !
    Says the Brix.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,533

    Foxy said:

    I see our Islamist mayor of London is encouraging public prayer in Trafalgar square again.

    https://bsky.app/profile/london.gov.uk/post/3mi74jz6vz22k

    Presumably we will hear from Kemi soon to condemn it.

    We had Jehovahs Witnesses' canvassing across the road from one of our pubs on Saturday morning.

    I made an excuse and left!
    "You know who else didn't like the Jehovah's Witnesses...?"
    The burgling Jehovas?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,795
    Scarpia said:

    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    Lidl do them. They've also got (last week) frozen whole sardines.
    Ah ok. No Lidl here but an Aldi is quite close. Sounds like that might be the answer. Cheers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,533
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @samfr.bsky.social‬

    This point from @ldfreedman.bsky.social (who's been in Washington this week) is key.

    Out of malice and stupidity the Trump administration has destroyed its own decision-making capabilities.

    https://bsky.app/profile/samfr.bsky.social/post/3mi6rghqvt72y

    And this hollowing out of the civil service, to be replaced by political appointees, is Reform’s policy for the UK.
    The public have had enough of experts, they want instinctive feelz.......until that hits reality, by when they still don't want experts, just someone else's instinctive feelz.
    If you bothered yourself to acquire some actual knowledge rather than 'instinctive feelz', you would know that the civil service has a deliberate policy of moving people from department to department too frequently to develop any expertise. Meaning not only are civil servants obstructionist and ideologically captured, they are are also not experts. Bringing outsiders in from the world of business would probably improve expertise as well as getting things done.
    Trump and Witkoff are outsiders from the world of business.
    So is Kate Bingham.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,715

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree with the Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post. There's no future in Gaza for the Palestinians, and Israel cannot really have a deeply resentful armed enclave like that.

    BUT the corollary to that must be that Gaza residents are moved to the West Bank, and Israeli settlers moved out, never to return. That way, the Israelis no longer have a Gaza problem, and the Palestinians no longer have a settler problem. Everyone gets something good, nobody gets everything they want.
    Yes.

    Unfortunately, the current Israeli government is dependent on the votes of the Settler parties. That means that Israeli government policy is to continue the creeping annexation/invasion of the West Bank, with the Palestinians being squeezed into ever smaller spaces.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,393

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that the far-left takeover of the (no longer) Green Party means that they are now infested with antisemites.

    Since the pitiful 'Greens are anti NATO' tactic has proved entirely fruitless, obviously the media is now going full on Maoist bicycle on the road to Auschwitz. Possibly won't work as well as it did with Jezza because as far as I know the Greens don't have an active section of the party plotting to bring down Zack.
    The sense of entitlement from Labour is extreme.

    The exodus to the Greens is not being driven by anti-semitism, it is being driven by the Reform-adjacent policies of the Labour Party.
    As a committed pro-semite (I'm technically Jewish and I was brought up on accounts of the horrors of 30s Germany and the necessity of Israel), I've really had enough of Netanyahu and current Israeli policy, and that doesn't make me an anti-semite. Obviously burning Jewish ambulances is both wrong and stupid, but I don't think that being critical of Israeli policy qualifies at all.
    Netanyahu has done more for anti-semitism than anyone could have expected.
    "the necessity of Israel" - maybe it's because I'm not Jewish, but I've never understood how a genocide on one continent, however appalling, legitimises subsequent ethnic cleansing of a group of people completely innocent of that crime in another. Nor how moving to a country surrounded by enemies who are committed to destroying you makes you much safer.

    It reminds me a little of the logic of a white South African family friend who told me in Cape Town a few years ago that he had fled from Britain in 1970 (then 1% black) to South Africa (80% black) to avoid the Rivers of Blood and the black man's whip hand that Enoch Powell had forecast. He could clearly only find the safety he craved with systematic oppression of the indigenous majority, and, anyway, it probably wouldn't work in the long run.
    Israel is majority Jewish though and the only Jewish majority nation on earth, so a homeland Jews will always defend as their only sure sanctuary.

    South Africa has never been majority white but there are plenty of majority white nations on earth still and in most of Eastern Europe it is still almost 100% white
    But Israel is clearly not a sure sanctuary, is it? It is surrounded by countries that hate it, and have nearly wiped it off the map three times in its short life. The only reason it survived was American goodwill, which it is now losing.

    And, day to day, rockets are fired into the country from its neighbours and paranoid security is a part of everyday life, that makes the whole country feel like a mixture of an armed camp, with three years' military service for men and two for women, and an airport since 9/11. Terrorists pointlessly murdered 1,200 just a couple of years ago. So in fact Jews are actually far safer in the European democracies they left after the Second World War.

    So even on its own terms, providing sanctuary for Jews, Israel has been a complete failure.

    And a morally appalling one given the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian Arabs and the terrorism against the legitimate authorities which were its founding achievements.
    Natanyahu is out-performing Adolf Hitler in branding and putting a target on the back of every Jewish person on the Planet.

    He is turning Israel, and by it's definition Jewish people in to targets.

    Had anyone said this a few years ago they would have been certified, now the majority see it, feel it , sense it.

    When anyone (quite rightly) attacks ANTI SEMITISM - they need to attack the source. The source is NETANYAHU and his cabal in Tel Aviv.

    Eradicate him and his cabal, bring decency and honesty back in to Israeli politics DE-ESCALATE and sure as night follows day, anti semitism aroumd the Globe will reduce and de-escalate too!

    It needs a moderate Jew to take Netanyahu out, we can only hope someone steps up to the plate, in the l leftl same way a moderate Russian would with Putin.

    I agree that Bibi over the last 30 years has a body count heading into the lower numbers of Hitler territory.

    Nobody despises Netanyahu more than I do, but more than 7 million people, including around 1.8 million non-Jewish people, died in the Holocaust, not counting other acts of genocide against Poles, Russians and the dead of the occupied countries of Western Europe.

    Netanyahu is a Tristram, but he is not that much of a Tristram. Comparing him to Hitler just gives Netanyahu an undeserved moral high ground.

    Horthy or Mussolini would be a better parallel, especially Horthy.
    I don't believe one should consider gradations of unmitigated evil. Stalin, Hitler, Bibi and Trump fit the frame, and Trump's body count is barely out of the traps.

    Hitler was quite open about who he killed and his regime was rather good at recording the details. Bibi, not so much.

    Many of Bibi's casualties are buried under rubble never to be found in Gaza, Lebanon and elsewhere, and others have been removed by covert activity across the World. I would be surprised if Bibi's body count doesn't reach 7 figures. I would suggest the 80,000 Gazan casualties is an enormous under estimation. And who would believe Hamas metrics?
    You may suggest that but it is extremely unlikely you are correct. 80,000 dead is almost certainly the upper limit if only because Hamas would count every 'possible' in their figure to make Israel look worse. Even if we reduce it by a third, as people who may have been displaced and not reunited with their families and for a certain amount of double counting (again, likely an upper limit for that number) the figures are bad enough, but it's comparable to the number who died in the Blitz and far lower than the numbers who died in Dresden, Cologne, Pforzheim and Hamburg.

    Just to make some other obvious points Netanyahu has not stolen the possessions of dead Palestinians and sold them to line his own pocket, he hasn't cut their hair off to make blankets, and he hasn't had the fat used from cremating them used to make soap (the soap issued to Poles had 42% human fat content). These were all things done on the orders of Hitler.

    Netanyahu is bad but not that bad (heck, even Putin isn't that bad although I wouldn't go bail for Xi). Don't give him alibis.
    The soap thing is a myth, fwiw.
    Yes, I researched this - after discovering the astonishing (and true) fact that the settler Chinese occasionally used to EAT the native Taiwanese in the lat 19th century. It got me into a deep dive on appalling atrocities involving human remains. Fun times

    The soap thing is indeed a myth, it's not certain where it came from

    However the lampshade and bookbinding atrocities are true. There was some Nazi woman (IIRC) at one of the camps (Buchenwald?) who would select incoming prisoners with "interesting" tattoos - for this reason

    I apologise if any PBers are sitting down to an eaely supper
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 46,069
    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Brixian59 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Zia Yusif confirms Reform are the NIMBY party.

    Every party is the NIMBY party. They talk a game at national level. But then…

    Which is why I predict that the attempts at increasing house building from Starmer will be u-turned after May.

    One of the squares the Green will need to make into a circle is their strong NIMBYism locally, with the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.
    '...the massive support for house building and infrastructure among the young.' 50% of voters aged 18-24 and 62% of voters aged 25-49 oppose building new housing on 'green belt land' not massively lower than the 76% of over 65s who oppose building new homes on the greenbelt. 64% of 2024 Green voters and 59% of 2024 Labour voters oppose building new homes on the greenbelt.

    63% of 18-24s may generally support more new homes being built in their local area but even over 65s narrowly agree with that by 47% to 46%,
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Copy_of_Internal_HouseBuilding_240709.pdf
    Labour's core vote is about as YIMBY as you can get- if they can't get housebuilding happening, we really are stuffed.

    (Meanwhile, of course Reform are NIMBY. Older homeowners, many of them via RTB, whose main asset is their house which was way cheaper when they bought it.)
    Yimby and environmentally conscious

    Which is why the Tory energy policy to be launched tomorrow is fundamentally dangerius, pointless, built on false logic and from a Party who utterly spaffed up and wasted the golden bonus from the peak North Sea days and then exacerbated their utter ineptitude by doing nothing in 14 years in power worthwhile to secure our energy future.
    @Richard_Tyndall who is in the industry comprehensively debunked your comments on this

    Kemi is leading on this with the support of the unions,SNP, upto 40 labour mps and others

    Your anti Kemi views are well known but repeating fake news is sadly, your modus operandi
    Others who are experts within the industry and with billions invested within the industry do not agree with Richard Tindall.

    Thats a fact

    As for Kemi, her shadow energy secretary had a polar opposite view in Government to Kemi now

    Kemi is Kemi

    A foghorn, she's well suited to the North Sea is is simply irrelevant.

    I understand she's staying at Trumps Golf Course near Aberdeen

    I hope she remembers to declare that.

    I've looked up Richard Tyndall

    With respect

    He's made his living working on Oil Rigs

    Drill baby Drill

    Respect the knowledge but he's hardly likely to advocate as stopping drilling

    It a bit like the guy who pulls the guillotine being pro capital punishment.

    For the last few years I have made my living shutting down oil fields. I actually make a much better living shutting them down than I did drilling them. We are in the process of abandoning a field that still has 1 billion barrels of recoverable oil in it. One field. How stupid do you have to be to think that is a good idea?

    And for the last 20 odd years on PB I have advocated stopping burning fossil fuels because they are too imprtant for too many other aspects of our modern life.

    If you are going to go for the ad hominem attacks, again it helps if you actually get your basic facts right. You should try it some time, it might be a new experience for you.
    You protesteth too nuch

    Oil is a commodity that has had its time.

    There could be 10 billion barrels it's still unprofoitable to drill and pump and to be sold at extortionate prices to the detriment of a climate that has been destroyed by fossil fuel extraction and burning.
    You really are ignorant and quite nasty

    How to influence people and persuade them is not your greatest gift

    You are unable to admit when you are wrong
    I have done that many times over the years and apologised, and long before you started your chaotic nonsense
    It really is like dropping feathers over to catch a mackerel with you.

    I'll self declare I've caught my quota, 20 a day is the permitted legal limit.

    So I'll leave you to talk to yourself and Kemi in future.
    tosser
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,709
    edited 5:34PM
    Kemi is getting hammered on Ch4. She's hopeless under pressure. HYUFD knows what he's on about.

    You say you're coming back. You're on 17% is that what you call 'coming back?'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,393
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Included, or only included?
    From page 25

    "We used the School Level Database (SLD) from the ASC January 2013 to examine the
    variation in the proportion of EAL students at the school level. We selected all maintained,
    mainstream schools in England. Additionally we eliminated 32 very small maintained schools
    (10 or fewer students on roll). The resulting population contained 20,033 schools."
    Ok, thanks. So they don't know the difference between maintained schools and academies. That's a rocky start in terms of their credibility.
    From a quick googling around, there were a couple of thousand academies in 2013.

    Edit : the report is from 2015 and doesn't seem to have an axe to grind over immigration. More about identifying areas where support is required.

    Further Edit: they say - "Almost a quarter of all schools (22.1%) have less than 1% EAL, and over half (54%) have less than 5% of student with EAL. However at the other extreme 1,681 schools (8.4%) have a majority of students with EAL. This does not support headlines such as that in the Daily Telegraph (31/01/14) that "English is no longer the first language for the majority of pupils at one in nine schools"
    Right, so it's not the survey, it's Goodwin misusing it by presenting out of date material. I withdraw my slur on their credibility.
    I think it entirely possible that if a study found 1681 schools were found to have a majority on non-english speakers in 2013, that in 2026 the number is higher.

    Given that we have had lots of immigration in the last 13 year, probably inevitable. If you import lots of furriners, then you'll get lots of people talkiin' the furrin.

    So we just need to make sure we put enough resources into getting them up to speed in English. Which, according to the report has a direct, definite and completely unsurprising effect on educational attainment.

    Edit: Goodwin is still Badfail, of course.
    The report is interesting, and worth reading.

    And, yes, it is entirely possible -probable even- that the number of schools where English is not the first language has risen since 2013. However, what is likely to have changed significantly is who the parents are. Back in 2013, a lot of those parents (and kids) will have been from the EU Eastern European 8. Because that was where the majority of immigration was from.

    13 years later, we've left the EU, and net immigration from Eastern Europe is -IIRC- currently negative.

    Instead we've had the Boriswave, bringing mostly people from outside Europe. And I suspect that those immigrants have settled in different parts of the country.

    So there might well be an interesting 'switch' in where the majority non-English students are.

    (As an aside: I went to a majority non-English speaking school in Bedford. All my friends from there who spoke Urdu/Gujerati/etc at home when kids, speak English at home now. So their kids won't be from English as a second language kids.)
    My kids' primary school has gone from negligible EASL to c.50% EASL in the 11 years I have been a parent there.
    I should stress that they are largely the sort of EASL kids who ate very much tryimg to learn English and to integrate - HK and Indian are the top two nationalities. I live in a comfortable middle class area and realistically *difficult* immigrants are priced out.

    However I do know quite a bit about a school with a less favourable experience in a deprived area of South Yorkshire: 60% of the kids there are Roma from Slovakia, typically:
    - from families where no women and under 10% of men are economically active
    - living upwards of 12 people to an unfurnished two bedroom house
    - from families where education is in no way value
    - from two villages in Slovakia which are functionally at war with each other.
    They are here living in these conditions because, incredibly, life in Slovakian Roma villages is much, much worse. Seriously. Google them. And because they face much less discrimination here than in Slovakia. But they have no sense of permanence or investment in the UK, and are constantly sparring with the authorities over crime and benefit fraud.

    In these conditions education is challenging.

    Of the 40% who are not Roma, the next most prominent ethnic group are Somali.

    So, the experience of education at majority EASL schools is variable.
    These people need to be expelled. They should never have been allowed in, we will bankrupt the country supporting them for the next ten generations
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,795
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Brixian59 said:

    Fishing said:

    HYUFD said:

    Fishing said:

    Foxy said:

    I see that the far-left takeover of the (no longer) Green Party means that they are now infested with antisemites.

    Since the pitiful 'Greens are anti NATO' tactic has proved entirely fruitless, obviously the media is now going full on Maoist bicycle on the road to Auschwitz. Possibly won't work as well as it did with Jezza because as far as I know the Greens don't have an active section of the party plotting to bring down Zack.
    The sense of entitlement from Labour is extreme.

    The exodus to the Greens is not being driven by anti-semitism, it is being driven by the Reform-adjacent policies of the Labour Party.
    As a committed pro-semite (I'm technically Jewish and I was brought up on accounts of the horrors of 30s Germany and the necessity of Israel), I've really had enough of Netanyahu and current Israeli policy, and that doesn't make me an anti-semite. Obviously burning Jewish ambulances is both wrong and stupid, but I don't think that being critical of Israeli policy qualifies at all.
    Netanyahu has done more for anti-semitism than anyone could have expected.
    "the necessity of Israel" - maybe it's because I'm not Jewish, but I've never understood how a genocide on one continent, however appalling, legitimises subsequent ethnic cleansing of a group of people completely innocent of that crime in another. Nor how moving to a country surrounded by enemies who are committed to destroying you makes you much safer.

    It reminds me a little of the logic of a white South African family friend who told me in Cape Town a few years ago that he had fled from Britain in 1970 (then 1% black) to South Africa (80% black) to avoid the Rivers of Blood and the black man's whip hand that Enoch Powell had forecast. He could clearly only find the safety he craved with systematic oppression of the indigenous majority, and, anyway, it probably wouldn't work in the long run.
    Israel is majority Jewish though and the only Jewish majority nation on earth, so a homeland Jews will always defend as their only sure sanctuary.

    South Africa has never been majority white but there are plenty of majority white nations on earth still and in most of Eastern Europe it is still almost 100% white
    But Israel is clearly not a sure sanctuary, is it? It is surrounded by countries that hate it, and have nearly wiped it off the map three times in its short life. The only reason it survived was American goodwill, which it is now losing.

    And, day to day, rockets are fired into the country from its neighbours and paranoid security is a part of everyday life, that makes the whole country feel like a mixture of an armed camp, with three years' military service for men and two for women, and an airport since 9/11. Terrorists pointlessly murdered 1,200 just a couple of years ago. So in fact Jews are actually far safer in the European democracies they left after the Second World War.

    So even on its own terms, providing sanctuary for Jews, Israel has been a complete failure.

    And a morally appalling one given the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian Arabs and the terrorism against the legitimate authorities which were its founding achievements.
    Natanyahu is out-performing Adolf Hitler in branding and putting a target on the back of every Jewish person on the Planet.

    He is turning Israel, and by it's definition Jewish people in to targets.

    Had anyone said this a few years ago they would have been certified, now the majority see it, feel it , sense it.

    When anyone (quite rightly) attacks ANTI SEMITISM - they need to attack the source. The source is NETANYAHU and his cabal in Tel Aviv.

    Eradicate him and his cabal, bring decency and honesty back in to Israeli politics DE-ESCALATE and sure as night follows day, anti semitism aroumd the Globe will reduce and de-escalate too!

    It needs a moderate Jew to take Netanyahu out, we can only hope someone steps up to the plate, in the l leftl same way a moderate Russian would with Putin.

    I agree that Bibi over the last 30 years has a body count heading into the lower numbers of Hitler territory.

    Nobody despises Netanyahu more than I do, but more than 7 million people, including around 1.8 million non-Jewish people, died in the Holocaust, not counting other acts of genocide against Poles, Russians and the dead of the occupied countries of Western Europe.

    Netanyahu is a Tristram, but he is not that much of a Tristram. Comparing him to Hitler just gives Netanyahu an undeserved moral high ground.

    Horthy or Mussolini would be a better parallel, especially Horthy.
    I don't believe one should consider gradations of unmitigated evil. Stalin, Hitler, Bibi and Trump fit the frame, and Trump's body count is barely out of the traps.

    Hitler was quite open about who he killed and his regime was rather good at recording the details. Bibi, not so much.

    Many of Bibi's casualties are buried under rubble never to be found in Gaza, Lebanon and elsewhere, and others have been removed by covert activity across the World. I would be surprised if Bibi's body count doesn't reach 7 figures. I would suggest the 80,000 Gazan casualties is an enormous under estimation. And who would believe Hamas metrics?
    You may suggest that but it is extremely unlikely you are correct. 80,000 dead is almost certainly the upper limit if only because Hamas would count every 'possible' in their figure to make Israel look worse. Even if we reduce it by a third, as people who may have been displaced and not reunited with their families and for a certain amount of double counting (again, likely an upper limit for that number) the figures are bad enough, but it's comparable to the number who died in the Blitz and far lower than the numbers who died in Dresden, Cologne, Pforzheim and Hamburg.

    Just to make some other obvious points Netanyahu has not stolen the possessions of dead Palestinians and sold them to line his own pocket, he hasn't cut their hair off to make blankets, and he hasn't had the fat used from cremating them used to make soap (the soap issued to Poles had 42% human fat content). These were all things done on the orders of Hitler.

    Netanyahu is bad but not that bad (heck, even Putin isn't that bad although I wouldn't go bail for Xi). Don't give him alibis.
    The soap thing is a myth, fwiw.
    Yes, I researched this - after discovering the astonishing (and true) fact that the settler Chinese occasionally used to EAT the native Taiwanese in the lat 19th century. It got me into a deep dive on appalling atrocities involving human remains. Fun times

    The soap thing is indeed a myth, it's not certain where it came from

    However the lampshade and bookbinding atrocities are true. There was some Nazi woman (IIRC) at one of the camps (Buchenwald?) who would select incoming prisoners with "interesting" tattoos - for this reason

    I apologise if any PBers are sitting down to an eaely supper
    And here's me prattling on about sardines.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,393
    kinabalu said:

    AnneJGP said:

    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    Sainsbury's advertise them. Don't they have them?
    Just the ones in tomato sauce. I'll keep at it though.
    Whole Foods do them, in several varieties, all posh and yummy

    There's a branch about ten feet from me, but I'd prefer it if you'd locate one further away, thanks
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,533
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree with the Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post. There's no future in Gaza for the Palestinians, and Israel cannot really have a deeply resentful armed enclave like that.

    BUT the corollary to that must be that Gaza residents are moved to the West Bank, and Israeli settlers moved out, never to return. That way, the Israelis no longer have a Gaza problem, and the Palestinians no longer have a settler problem. Everyone gets something good, nobody gets everything they want.
    Yes.

    Unfortunately, the current Israeli government is dependent on the votes of the Settler parties. That means that Israeli government policy is to continue the creeping annexation/invasion of the West Bank, with the Palestinians being squeezed into ever smaller spaces.
    Yes. And that should be opposed by the UK (not that we can do anything about it). But if I were PM I would gear UK policy in that direction. Recognise Palestine but only in the West Bank, not Gaza. Ostracise the settlers and their networks of support, but defend Israel's sovereignty within its legal borders. I think that would be a wise, distinctive and principled policy.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,588

    Scarpia said:

    kinabalu said:

    Speaking of fish, the long wait is over as regards sardines. I found some. Only the ones in tomato sauce though. Nothing yet in olive oil (which is my preferred product).

    Lidl do them. They've also got (last week) frozen whole sardines.
    I mentioned that a few days ago!
    Morrisons do fresh ones.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,884
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Goodwin doubling down on his race baiting dishonesty.

    In more than 2,000 schools in England today a majority of children no longer speak English as their main language. My critics might not think that tells us something important about what is happening to our country. But I do. And I will not change my view
    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/2037792677266162089

    He has become the country's leading stand up philosophers.

    https://youtu.be/tl4VD8uvgec?si=-zeqAGOvHiABpLhw

    Incidentally I wonder whether he has checked to remove private international schools from that list?
    https://www.bell-foundation.org.uk/app/uploads/2017/05/EALachievementStrand-1.pdf appears to be the primary source of this.

    The study states that they included "maintained, mainstream schools"
    Included, or only included?
    From page 25

    "We used the School Level Database (SLD) from the ASC January 2013 to examine the
    variation in the proportion of EAL students at the school level. We selected all maintained,
    mainstream schools in England. Additionally we eliminated 32 very small maintained schools
    (10 or fewer students on roll). The resulting population contained 20,033 schools."
    Ok, thanks. So they don't know the difference between maintained schools and academies. That's a rocky start in terms of their credibility.
    From a quick googling around, there were a couple of thousand academies in 2013.

    Edit : the report is from 2015 and doesn't seem to have an axe to grind over immigration. More about identifying areas where support is required.

    Further Edit: they say - "Almost a quarter of all schools (22.1%) have less than 1% EAL, and over half (54%) have less than 5% of student with EAL. However at the other extreme 1,681 schools (8.4%) have a majority of students with EAL. This does not support headlines such as that in the Daily Telegraph (31/01/14) that "English is no longer the first language for the majority of pupils at one in nine schools"
    Right, so it's not the survey, it's Goodwin misusing it by presenting out of date material. I withdraw my slur on their credibility.
    I think it entirely possible that if a study found 1681 schools were found to have a majority on non-english speakers in 2013, that in 2026 the number is higher.

    Given that we have had lots of immigration in the last 13 year, probably inevitable. If you import lots of furriners, then you'll get lots of people talkiin' the furrin.

    So we just need to make sure we put enough resources into getting them up to speed in English. Which, according to the report has a direct, definite and completely unsurprising effect on educational attainment.

    Edit: Goodwin is still Badfail, of course.
    The report is interesting, and worth reading.

    And, yes, it is entirely possible -probable even- that the number of schools where English is not the first language has risen since 2013. However, what is likely to have changed significantly is who the parents are. Back in 2013, a lot of those parents (and kids) will have been from the EU Eastern European 8. Because that was where the majority of immigration was from.

    13 years later, we've left the EU, and net immigration from Eastern Europe is -IIRC- currently negative.

    Instead we've had the Boriswave, bringing mostly people from outside Europe. And I suspect that those immigrants have settled in different parts of the country.

    So there might well be an interesting 'switch' in where the majority non-English students are.

    (As an aside: I went to a majority non-English speaking school in Bedford. All my friends from there who spoke Urdu/Gujerati/etc at home when kids, speak English at home now. So their kids won't be from English as a second language kids.)
    My kids' primary school has gone from negligible EASL to c.50% EASL in the 11 years I have been a parent there.
    I should stress that they are largely the sort of EASL kids who ate very much tryimg to learn English and to integrate - HK and Indian are the top two nationalities. I live in a comfortable middle class area and realistically *difficult* immigrants are priced out.

    However I do know quite a bit about a school with a less favourable experience in a deprived area of South Yorkshire: 60% of the kids there are Roma from Slovakia, typically:
    - from families where no women and under 10% of men are economically active
    - living upwards of 12 people to an unfurnished two bedroom house
    - from families where education is in no way value
    - from two villages in Slovakia which are functionally at war with each other.
    They are here living in these conditions because, incredibly, life in Slovakian Roma villages is much, much worse. Seriously. Google them. And because they face much less discrimination here than in Slovakia. But they have no sense of permanence or investment in the UK, and are constantly sparring with the authorities over crime and benefit fraud.

    In these conditions education is challenging.

    Of the 40% who are not Roma, the next most prominent ethnic group are Somali.

    So, the experience of education at majority EASL schools is variable.
    These people need to be expelled. They should never have been allowed in, we will bankrupt the country supporting them for the next ten generations
    It's hard to escape that conclusion.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 67,393

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree with the Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post. There's no future in Gaza for the Palestinians, and Israel cannot really have a deeply resentful armed enclave like that.

    BUT the corollary to that must be that Gaza residents are moved to the West Bank, and Israeli settlers moved out, never to return. That way, the Israelis no longer have a Gaza problem, and the Palestinians no longer have a settler problem. Everyone gets something good, nobody gets everything they want.
    Yes.

    Unfortunately, the current Israeli government is dependent on the votes of the Settler parties. That means that Israeli government policy is to continue the creeping annexation/invasion of the West Bank, with the Palestinians being squeezed into ever smaller spaces.
    Yes. And that should be opposed by the UK (not that we can do anything about it). But if I were PM I would gear UK policy in that direction. Recognise Palestine but only in the West Bank, not Gaza. Ostracise the settlers and their networks of support, but defend Israel's sovereignty within its legal borders. I think that would be a wise, distinctive and principled policy.
    Your West Bank solution is noble, but would not work. After October 7, Israel will not tolerate a large anti-Semitic population within a few yards of Israel itself. Everything Israel has done since indicates that it is working towards a more drastic and final solution (sorry) to the Palestinian "problem"

    There is no future for the Palestinians in Palestine. This is a dismal fact, but it is a fact. Ironically the crazy Trump had the best idea. Stuff their hungry mouths with gold and give them lovely land somewhere else, a distance from Jerusalem. Buy them condos and limos. Let the whole world pay as the whole world will benefit. Then develop Gaza into a new Dubai on the Med
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,931
    Brixian59 said:

    Igor Tudor leaves Tottenham.

    Igor Tudor? What a great name.

    Like Vladimir Plantagenet, or Donald Putin.
    The greatest manager name was Wolfgang Wolf who managed Wolfsburg.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Wolf
    As a player Willum Williumsson takes some beating
    Snorri Snorrason, Icelandic footballer.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 34,533
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Op-ed in the Jerusalem Post.

    The only way Israel can govern the Gaza Strip without becoming an external oppressor of “another people” is to remove “the other people” from the confines of the Gaza Strip itself.
    https://x.com/Jerusalem_Post/status/2037794771058495738

    Once all other solutions have been eliminated, then whatever is left ...

    The good news is there are plenty of Muslim countries in the region people could go to. The bad news, is none of them want them.
    So you’re saying this is the final solution to the Palestine question ?
    No, I would not accept your implied gas chambers or executing of innocents.

    But the movement of people has successfully ended many a conflict. Including the movement of Germans post WWII, and recently the exodus of Nagorno-Karabakh.

    If it could be done peacefully, it might be the least worst option, considering the lack of stomach to eliminate Hamas.
    I agree with the Op Ed in the Jerusalem Post. There's no future in Gaza for the Palestinians, and Israel cannot really have a deeply resentful armed enclave like that.

    BUT the corollary to that must be that Gaza residents are moved to the West Bank, and Israeli settlers moved out, never to return. That way, the Israelis no longer have a Gaza problem, and the Palestinians no longer have a settler problem. Everyone gets something good, nobody gets everything they want.
    Yes.

    Unfortunately, the current Israeli government is dependent on the votes of the Settler parties. That means that Israeli government policy is to continue the creeping annexation/invasion of the West Bank, with the Palestinians being squeezed into ever smaller spaces.
    Yes. And that should be opposed by the UK (not that we can do anything about it). But if I were PM I would gear UK policy in that direction. Recognise Palestine but only in the West Bank, not Gaza. Ostracise the settlers and their networks of support, but defend Israel's sovereignty within its legal borders. I think that would be a wise, distinctive and principled policy.
    Your West Bank solution is noble, but would not work. After October 7, Israel will not tolerate a large anti-Semitic population within a few yards of Israel itself. Everything Israel has done since indicates that it is working towards a more drastic and final solution (sorry) to the Palestinian "problem"

    There is no future for the Palestinians in Palestine. This is a dismal fact, but it is a fact. Ironically the crazy Trump had the best idea. Stuff their hungry mouths with gold and give them lovely land somewhere else, a distance from Jerusalem. Buy them condos and limos. Let the whole world pay as the whole world will benefit. Then develop Gaza into a new Dubai on the Med
    I think you're right that Israel wouldn't accept it. But that doesn't mean it should not be UK Government policy.
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