The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Rubbish. There would be an opposing standard-bearer. Sunak was only elected because Boris chickened out. Howard was seen as senior, competent and a unifier. Cleverly doesn't have anything like that level of credibility.
There would not. The only opposing candidate from the right was Jenrick, he has gone to Reform and even Jenrick's old campaign manager Francois is a pal of Cleverly as indeed is Patel.
Sunak was elected with over 50% of Tory MPs nominating him in late 2022 and Boris is not an MP now. Cleverly has support across the party from Stride, who backed him in the final round in 2024, to Francois and even Kemi if she lost a VONC would I expect come in behind Sir James. Cleverly would be Tory leader within a week if Kemi went, crowned by Tory MPs like Howard in 2003
Rubbish again. Sir John Hayes is the senior member of the Tory Parliamentary right wing, and of course they will have a candidate, which could be someone like Katie Lam. You're making massive leaps of logic and I don't really know why.
Sir John Hayes would get no nominations beyond a handful and Lam is barely even know beyond her own household and is basically Reform anyway so if she was picked after a 3rd placed or worse Tory perfomance in May the Tories may as well write their own suicide note. Lam would also not therefore get the required nominations.
It would be Cleverly there is no alternative
I am not talking about him getting nominations you daft sod, I am talking about him being the senior member - the organiser. The Tory parliamentary right will field a candidate, and it's desperate wishful thinking to suggest otherwise. And they will win.
As for Lam not being a household name, not being associated with '14 years of Tory failure' is hardly a drawback for a candidate is it? What shining achievements will Cleverly expect the gratitude of the nation for?
England can't get Janse van Rensburg available fast enough for that centre position where everybody they try there as the link player isn't international calibre.
That comment however valid just sums up how utterly ridiculous International Rugby Union has become
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Lets end this now as it is tedious
In your opinion but others are available
And stop using misleading polling as it is quite bizarre
Who do you seriously think is capable other than Cleverly or a grandee
I am not giving it any thought as I do not see it happening
However, the shadow cabinet league table of the membership [5th March] gives a guide on those who could well stand and Cleverly in 11th place is not a good omen for him
He had his chance and was too clever [sorry about the pun] by half and shot himself in the foot
We have to remember that @HYUFD was utterly convinced Johnson is the messiah but as he is not avalabldle Cleverly has now taken that role
I do not see any ground swell that would hand the position to Cleverly
Johnson if you recall won the biggest Conservative landslide since Thatcher in 2019, the Tories should never have got rid of him before the 2024 GE had they kept Boris as leader 100 Tory MPs would likely still hold their seats
For the one thousandth time:
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE. HE WAS GOING TO BE EXPELLED FROM PARLIAMENT FOR LYING TO IT AND WOULD HAVE LOST HIS SEAT.
Leaving aside the fact his popularity had tanked due to his boozy antics during lockdown (although tbf he was far from alone in that and many of the scum who partook are still in post).
The real mistake was not getting rid of Johnson but electing LizTruss to replace him. Who, because she is arrogant, insane and as thick as pigshit managed to blow up the government, the party, the national economy and just about everything else literally inside a month.
If they had gone for Sunak from the off they would have had a defeat but a normal rather than an epochal one.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
I'm not absolutely convinced of the verisimilitude of Con Home polls these days. The membership number is supposed to to be the check but there are alleged to be plenty of valid numbers floating around in forums, so I think they may well be being trolled.
I had my first ever comment deletion on Con Home from that page this week.
Admittedly, I was pointing out that Trump is running a white nationalist administration with semi-Fascist policies *, which apparently a reader or several were not overwhelmingly happy about. And that may be a little on the nose.
(* Which is quite accurate - their politically-driven masked up unidentifiable armed militia with concentration camps and racially directed targeting of individuals is a close historical rhyme to Mussolini's targeting of eg Roma.)
It is the only source of membership opinion but it is not unreasonable to see Kemi well in front
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Lets end this now as it is tedious
In your opinion but others are available
And stop using misleading polling as it is quite bizarre
Who do you seriously think is capable other than Cleverly or a grandee
I am not giving it any thought as I do not see it happening
However, the shadow cabinet league table of the membership [5th March] gives a guide on those who could well stand and Cleverly in 11th place is not a good omen for him
He had his chance and was too clever [sorry about the pun] by half and shot himself in the foot
We have to remember that @HYUFD was utterly convinced Johnson is the messiah but as he is not avalabldle Cleverly has now taken that role
I do not see any ground swell that would hand the position to Cleverly
Johnson if you recall won the biggest Conservative landslide since Thatcher in 2019, the Tories should never have got rid of him before the 2024 GE had they kept Boris as leader 100 Tory MPs would likely still hold their seats.
The poll of 2024 Tory voters is far more relevant than a Shadow Cabinet members approval poll (of which Cleverly is still net positive) as if the Tories do not retain 2024 Tories and win some Labour and LD tactical votes they will cease to exist after the next general election. Reform will overtake them on seats and ultimately take over the Tory Party.
Cleverly as I showed you polls better with 2024 Tory voters to succeed Kemi than any other Tory bar Boris, who is not now a Tory MP and ineligible
100 more seems rather generous, though it may well have been a few more than Sunak if he could have held on, simply because the Borisian Tories who refused to back Sunak would have presumably remained.
No matter how great his 2019 victory was he lost so much parliamentary support in a few short years that he was forced out - even if that was a mistake, the very fact he was so vulnerable internally demonstrates his political prowess going into another GE would not have been that great anymore. Like Starmer, the scale of his victory should have inured him to such a challenge - that it did not indicates a profound weakness in both of them personally.
There's really no getting away from that. Call the removal a mistake, call the circumstances difficult, imagine he could have avoided suspension etc, ultimately he lost control of his MPs as a majority did not trust him anymore - and how can you seriously suggest a Leader distrusted by most of his own MPs would have gotten over 220 MPs?
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Lets end this now as it is tedious
In your opinion but others are available
And stop using misleading polling as it is quite bizarre
Who do you seriously think is capable other than Cleverly or a grandee
I am not giving it any thought as I do not see it happening
However, the shadow cabinet league table of the membership [5th March] gives a guide on those who could well stand and Cleverly in 11th place is not a good omen for him
He had his chance and was too clever [sorry about the pun] by half and shot himself in the foot
We have to remember that @HYUFD was utterly convinced Johnson is the messiah but as he is not avalabldle Cleverly has now taken that role
I do not see any ground swell that would hand the position to Cleverly
Johnson if you recall won the biggest Conservative landslide since Thatcher in 2019, the Tories should never have got rid of him before the 2024 GE had they kept Boris as leader 100 Tory MPs would likely still hold their seats
For the one thousandth time:
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE. HE WAS GOING TO BE EXPELLED FROM PARLIAMENT FOR LYING TO IT AND WOULD HAVE LOST HIS SEAT.
Leaving aside the fact his popularity had tanked due to his boozy antics during lockdown (although tbf he was far from alone in that and many of the scum who partook are still in post).
The real mistake was not getting rid of Johnson but electing LizTruss to replace him. Who, because she is arrogant, insane and as thick as pigshit managed to blow up the government, the party, the national economy and just about everything else literally inside a month.
If they had gone for Sunak from the off they would have had a defeat but a normal rather than an epochal one.
Israel today tried retrieving the body of an airman shot down and killed in 1986 so they have killed 41 civilians in Beirut today and failed to retrieve the airman's body.
I like Kemi, but I am not on board with her military stance. She wants 80,000 soldiers. I say what's the point? By the time those soldiers are defending us from attack, it's too late. We need drones, missile defence, and a capable and smart Navy. Then next priority Airforce. Army a distant third.
80000 doesn't sound that much, but I don't know how many would be a good number to have. But drones and missile defence definitely sounds like a priority.
The more army we have, the more our PMs and the Generals egging them on will be encouraged to use it.
I want small capable forces, special forces, marines etc., to be sent into trouble spots to act quickly and clinically against mainly people armed with spears.
When, if, God forbid someone invades, we'll all need to be the army.
I take it drones require operators? Sounds like gaming skills, of which we have quite a few people.
But tell them that they have to polish their boots and get up at 6am, and you won't recruit many.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Rubbish. There would be an opposing standard-bearer. Sunak was only elected because Boris chickened out. Howard was seen as senior, competent and a unifier. Cleverly doesn't have anything like that level of credibility.
There isn't a single Tory front bencher including Badenoch, other than Cleverly with Leadership potential.
Badenochs behaviour the past week has been pitiful.
The only option to Cleverly is a grandee like Davis. He paucity of front bench Tory talent is stark.
Indeed, Cleverly has been Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary
Cleverly is at least personable and polite.
His attitude and behaviour as the main Tory spokesman after the debates was very effective but also very dignified, charming even.
He'd debate with often Streeting or Ashworth, stand his ground, make his point and always end with a handshake.
None of this horrible full time aggressive nasty snide backstabbing 24 x7
The Tories are dead in the water. By the time they get themselves together it'll be for Labour to become a credible and popular force again. They should be scared of the Greens. I've never thought enough people would go for Farage. There are just too many educated non fascists around but the Greens are different. They could easily force an arrangement with Labour.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Rubbish. There would be an opposing standard-bearer. Sunak was only elected because Boris chickened out. Howard was seen as senior, competent and a unifier. Cleverly doesn't have anything like that level of credibility.
There isn't a single Tory front bencher including Badenoch, other than Cleverly with Leadership potential.
Badenochs behaviour the past week has been pitiful.
The only option to Cleverly is a grandee like Davis. He paucity of front bench Tory talent is stark.
Indeed, Cleverly has been Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary
Cleverly is at least personable and polite.
His attitude and behaviour as the main Tory spokesman after the debates was very effective but also very dignified, charming even.
He'd debate with often Streeting or Ashworth, stand his ground, make his point and always end with a handshake.
None of this horrible full time aggressive nasty snide backstabbing 24 x7
The Tories are dead in the water. By the time they get themselves together it'll be for Labour to become a credible and popular force again. They should be scared of the Greens. I've never thought enough people would go for Farage. There are just too many educated non fascists around but the Greens are different. They could easily force an arrangement with Labour.
Saying it doesn't make it true
Polanski is the opposite end of the horseshoe to Farage, and both are equally dangerous to our country's well being and both supporters are as bad as each other
England trudging to their first defeat by Italy. Well done Mr Borthwick
I feel bad that it feels like Wales have played better than England in the last few matches but will somehow still finish below us.
England have certainly been the most disappointing team of the tournament and, yes, arguably the worst, alongside Wales. I'd say they are about evens at the bottom. Shamefully poor
Amazing how the promising team of the autumn has devolved to this mediocrity. They're not totally abysmal, just nowhere near where they should be, given the player pool
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Rubbish. There would be an opposing standard-bearer. Sunak was only elected because Boris chickened out. Howard was seen as senior, competent and a unifier. Cleverly doesn't have anything like that level of credibility.
There isn't a single Tory front bencher including Badenoch, other than Cleverly with Leadership potential.
Badenochs behaviour the past week has been pitiful.
The only option to Cleverly is a grandee like Davis. He paucity of front bench Tory talent is stark.
Indeed, Cleverly has been Home Secretary and Foreign Secretary
Cleverly is at least personable and polite.
His attitude and behaviour as the main Tory spokesman after the debates was very effective but also very dignified, charming even.
He'd debate with often Streeting or Ashworth, stand his ground, make his point and always end with a handshake.
None of this horrible full time aggressive nasty snide backstabbing 24 x7
The Tories are dead in the water. By the time they get themselves together it'll be for Labour to become a credible and popular force again. They should be scared of the Greens. I've never thought enough people would go for Farage. There are just too many educated non fascists around but the Greens are different. They could easily force an arrangement with Labour.
If the Tories are dead in the water that means Reform replace them as the main party of the right. Labour are also now at risk of being overtaken as the main party of the left by the Greens, in which case the Tories and Labour would likely come 4th and 5th on seats as the LDs would remain the main party of the centre and likely hold their current LD seats and stay 3rd
England trudging to their first defeat by Italy. Well done Mr Borthwick
Squeaky Bolognese time?
At least we can no longer pretend this is "a team in progress", and "building for the World Cup". It's a fucking mess, and Borthwick has no idea how to fix it
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Lets end this now as it is tedious
In your opinion but others are available
And stop using misleading polling as it is quite bizarre
Who do you seriously think is capable other than Cleverly or a grandee
I am not giving it any thought as I do not see it happening
However, the shadow cabinet league table of the membership [5th March] gives a guide on those who could well stand and Cleverly in 11th place is not a good omen for him
He had his chance and was too clever [sorry about the pun] by half and shot himself in the foot
We have to remember that @HYUFD was utterly convinced Johnson is the messiah but as he is not avalabldle Cleverly has now taken that role
I do not see any ground swell that would hand the position to Cleverly
Johnson if you recall won the biggest Conservative landslide since Thatcher in 2019, the Tories should never have got rid of him before the 2024 GE had they kept Boris as leader 100 Tory MPs would likely still hold their seats
For the one thousandth time:
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE. HE WAS GOING TO BE EXPELLED FROM PARLIAMENT FOR LYING TO IT AND WOULD HAVE LOST HIS SEAT.
Leaving aside the fact his popularity had tanked due to his boozy antics during lockdown (although tbf he was far from alone in that and many of the scum who partook are still in post).
The real mistake was not getting rid of Johnson but electing LizTruss to replace him. Who, because she is arrogant, insane and as thick as pigshit managed to blow up the government, the party, the national economy and just about everything else literally inside a month.
If they had gone for Sunak from the off they would have had a defeat but a normal rather than an epochal one.
Of course they had a choice, indeed the Tories WON the Uxbridge by election in 2023.
When Boris resigned the Tories were polling 30%, under Truss that collapsed to less than 20%, under Rishi increased slightly to 24% but still well down on Boris levels and now under Kemi the Tories are back down near Truss levels.
Getting rid of Boris led to more Tories going Labour after the Truss and Kwarteng budget disaster and more Tories then going Reform once Rishi became Tory leader even if he regained a few from Labour
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Rubbish. There would be an opposing standard-bearer. Sunak was only elected because Boris chickened out. Howard was seen as senior, competent and a unifier. Cleverly doesn't have anything like that level of credibility.
There would not. The only opposing candidate from the right was Jenrick, he has gone to Reform and even Jenrick's old campaign manager Francois is a pal of Cleverly as indeed is Patel.
Sunak was elected with over 50% of Tory MPs nominating him in late 2022 and Boris is not an MP now. Cleverly has support across the party from Stride, who backed him in the final round in 2024, to Francois and even Kemi if she lost a VONC would I expect come in behind Sir James. Cleverly would be Tory leader within a week if Kemi went, crowned by Tory MPs like Howard in 2003
Rubbish again. Sir John Hayes is the senior member of the Tory Parliamentary right wing, and of course they will have a candidate, which could be someone like Katie Lam. You're making massive leaps of logic and I don't really know why.
Sir John Hayes would get no nominations beyond a handful and Lam is barely even know beyond her own household and is basically Reform anyway so if she was picked after a 3rd placed or worse Tory perfomance in May the Tories may as well write their own suicide note. Lam would also not therefore get the required nominations.
It would be Cleverly there is no alternative
I am not talking about him getting nominations you daft sod, I am talking about him being the senior member - the organiser. The Tory parliamentary right will field a candidate, and it's desperate wishful thinking to suggest otherwise. And they will win.
As for Lam not being a household name, not being associated with '14 years of Tory failure' is hardly a drawback for a candidate is it? What shining achievements will Cleverly expect the gratitude of the nation for?
They won't, Jenrick WAS their candidate, now he has gone they have nobody. And if Kemi's trying to go even further right than Farage act sees the Tories 3rd or worse in May leading to her removal Tory MPs certainly ain't repeating the strategy with Lam. They will shift to the centre ground with Cleverly
@MarqueeMark Am I wrong in thinking your missus is involved with this? Looking forward to seeing it though it may be a bit of an emotional rollercoaster.
The missus has been filming with Anthony Hopkins and Helena Bonhma Carter and others this past month, in a film about Daphne du Maurier written by Rose Tremain.
Watched 'One Life' the other day. They are both excellent actors and a nod there to Maxwell and Rantzen.
England trudging to their first defeat by Italy. Well done Mr Borthwick
Squeaky Bolognese time?
At least we can no longer pretend this is "a team in progress", and "building for the World Cup". It's a fucking mess, and Borthwick has no idea how to fix it
England trudging to their first defeat by Italy. Well done Mr Borthwick
Squeaky Bolognese time?
At least we can no longer pretend this is "a team in progress", and "building for the World Cup". It's a fucking mess, and Borthwick has no idea how to fix it
Oh well. Onwards to the Footie
I'm actually pleased by this result. Borthwick is taking them nowhere, and scraping a win might have allowed him to cling on.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
England can't get Janse van Rensburg available fast enough for that centre position where everybody they try there as the link player isn't international calibre.
That comment however valid just sums up how utterly ridiculous International Rugby Union has become
Oh come on. NZ was nicking Pacific Islanders for decades.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Rubbish. There would be an opposing standard-bearer. Sunak was only elected because Boris chickened out. Howard was seen as senior, competent and a unifier. Cleverly doesn't have anything like that level of credibility.
There isn't a single Tory front bencher including Badenoch, other than Cleverly with Leadership potential.
Badenochs behaviour the past week has been pitiful.
The only option to Cleverly is a grandee like Davis. He paucity of front bench Tory talent is stark.
It's the way you tell them.
Im with @Brixian59 on this. There is no talent on the Conservative front bench other than Cleverly.
I say that as a former member of the Conservative Party and someone whose relative held two of the four Great Offices of State and could play cricket with a broken bat…
Having watched Question Time on Thursday evening, Cleverly is head and shoulders above the Shadow Cabinet, most of the Party and the Leader. I don’t like him but he has experience, an awareness of events and realpolitik, is a pragmatist and is the Conservative’s best media performer. Yesterday morning, David Lammy was on the Today programme. Like Cleverly, he knows what he can get away with, what he can say, what will make him look like a fool and how to construct an argument in a measured way.
Contrast that with the Conservative frontbench. This week, Badenoch was flanked by the political titans that are James Cartlidge and Mims Davies. I know Mims. Went to sixth form together. Her advisor at Swansea became my supervisor for one of my doctorates. As he said of her (and he was the most mild mannered of individuals)… “low wattage”.
Then there’s the rest. Priti Patel, a one woman FCO, MoD, MI6, GCHQ and glottal stop rolled into one; Chris Philp, a poor excuse for a human being; Mel Stride and Kevin Hollinrake who embody the Marxian dictum “Those are my principles, if you don’t like them, well… I have others”. Whately. Lopez. Griffith. Huddleston. Holden. There’s nothing there.
I could vote for Cleverly. The problem is he’d have to work with the same shower of incompetents.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
The last complete twat in the world qualified to lecture Starmer on not joining the USA and Israel in an illegal Middle Eastern wars is- checks notes, Tony Blair.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Rubbish. There would be an opposing standard-bearer. Sunak was only elected because Boris chickened out. Howard was seen as senior, competent and a unifier. Cleverly doesn't have anything like that level of credibility.
There would not. The only opposing candidate from the right was Jenrick, he has gone to Reform and even Jenrick's old campaign manager Francois is a pal of Cleverly as indeed is Patel.
Sunak was elected with over 50% of Tory MPs nominating him in late 2022 and Boris is not an MP now. Cleverly has support across the party from Stride, who backed him in the final round in 2024, to Francois and even Kemi if she lost a VONC would I expect come in behind Sir James. Cleverly would be Tory leader within a week if Kemi went, crowned by Tory MPs like Howard in 2003
Rubbish again. Sir John Hayes is the senior member of the Tory Parliamentary right wing, and of course they will have a candidate, which could be someone like Katie Lam. You're making massive leaps of logic and I don't really know why.
Sir John Hayes would get no nominations beyond a handful and Lam is barely even know beyond her own household and is basically Reform anyway so if she was picked after a 3rd placed or worse Tory perfomance in May the Tories may as well write their own suicide note. Lam would also not therefore get the required nominations.
It would be Cleverly there is no alternative
I am not talking about him getting nominations you daft sod, I am talking about him being the senior member - the organiser. The Tory parliamentary right will field a candidate, and it's desperate wishful thinking to suggest otherwise. And they will win.
As for Lam not being a household name, not being associated with '14 years of Tory failure' is hardly a drawback for a candidate is it? What shining achievements will Cleverly expect the gratitude of the nation for?
They won't, Jenrick WAS their candidate, now he has gone they have nobody. And if Kemi's trying to go even further right than Farage act sees the Tories 3rd or worse in May leading to her removal Tory MPs certainly ain't repeating the strategy with Lam. They will shift to the centre ground with Cleverly
Net immigration to the UK is now falling thanks to tighter visa wage rules Cleverly brought in as Home Secretary
England can't get Janse van Rensburg available fast enough for that centre position where everybody they try there as the link player isn't international calibre.
That comment however valid just sums up how utterly ridiculous International Rugby Union has become
Oh come on. NZ was nicking Pacific Islanders for decades.
Specifcally Van Rensburg there isnt really any nicking going on. South Africa have made it clear they will never pick himz he came to Europe with no promise of international rugby as it was thought due to 20 mins in a youth game he would never be eligible. Only a recent ruling means he will actually he available for England in a few months.
Its not like one of these RFU nudge nudge come play in Premership and because your mum was from England and you never played for your own country its all good.
The way this weekend is going, I've just stuck a cheeky tenner of Max Verstappen to win the grand prix in the morning at 66/1.
Also backed Sir Lewis as I am a Hamilton stan.
Ferrari seem to have software problems.
The car is likely a fair bit faster than it showed in qualifying, but not enough to get near Mercedes.
I was wearing my Ferrari hoodie today and on the train I struck up a conversation with a guy who knows his F1 and he reckons we're going to see (in the first few races at least) quite a low of unreliability as the teams adapt to the new rules and we might get some shock results.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Lets end this now as it is tedious
In your opinion but others are available
And stop using misleading polling as it is quite bizarre
Who do you seriously think is capable other than Cleverly or a grandee
I am not giving it any thought as I do not see it happening
However, the shadow cabinet league table of the membership [5th March] gives a guide on those who could well stand and Cleverly in 11th place is not a good omen for him
He had his chance and was too clever [sorry about the pun] by half and shot himself in the foot
We have to remember that @HYUFD was utterly convinced Johnson is the messiah but as he is not avalabldle Cleverly has now taken that role
I do not see any ground swell that would hand the position to Cleverly
Johnson if you recall won the biggest Conservative landslide since Thatcher in 2019, the Tories should never have got rid of him before the 2024 GE had they kept Boris as leader 100 Tory MPs would likely still hold their seats
For the one thousandth time:
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE. HE WAS GOING TO BE EXPELLED FROM PARLIAMENT FOR LYING TO IT AND WOULD HAVE LOST HIS SEAT.
Leaving aside the fact his popularity had tanked due to his boozy antics during lockdown (although tbf he was far from alone in that and many of the scum who partook are still in post).
The real mistake was not getting rid of Johnson but electing LizTruss to replace him. Who, because she is arrogant, insane and as thick as pigshit managed to blow up the government, the party, the national economy and just about everything else literally inside a month.
If they had gone for Sunak from the off they would have had a defeat but a normal rather than an epochal one.
Of course they had a choice, indeed the Tories WON the Uxbridge by election in 2023.
When Boris resigned the Tories were polling 30%, under Truss that collapsed to less than 20%, under Rishi increased slightly to 24% but still well down on Boris levels and now under Kemi the Tories are back down near Truss levels.
Getting rid of Boris led to more Tories going Labour after the Truss and Kwarteng budget disaster and more Tories then going Reform once Rishi became Tory leader even if he regained a few from Labour
For the umpteenth time Johnson got rid of Johnson and you just sound ridiculous
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
This is the key issue in any organisation. If you continue to pander to the senile and the corrupt, then the party will die. She's on track for fewer members as they die off and fewer MP's as they get dumped by the electorate or do the chicken run to Reform.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
The way this weekend is going, I've just stuck a cheeky tenner of Max Verstappen to win the grand prix in the morning at 66/1.
Also backed Sir Lewis as I am a Hamilton stan.
Ferrari seem to have software problems.
The car is likely a fair bit faster than it showed in qualifying, but not enough to get near Mercedes.
I was wearing my Ferrari hoodie today and on the train I struck up a conversation with a guy who knows his F1 and he reckons we're going to see (in the first few races at least) quite a low of unreliability as the teams adapt to the new rules and we might get some shock results.
Merc seem to have nailed it.
Look at the difference with McLaren, who have the same engine. (Notable stat - McLaren spent twice as long in eighth gear as did Mercedes on each lap.)
But I think the gap will close with Ferrari after a few races.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
This is the key issue in any organisation. If you continue to pander to the senile and the corrupt, then the party will die. She's on track for fewer members as they die off and fewer MP's as they get dumped by the electorate or do the chicken run to Reform.
Did I ever mention she's a dud?
I think your view has been obvious for a while
The most important policy Kemi has announced, along with the end of stamp duty, is to address the issue of student loans and vow to help NEETS and the young
By the way you may want to kill us off but others will replace us
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
Blair is too rightwing for Labour now but too liberal on immigration and anti Brexit to be in Reform, on economics and foreign and social policy he could easily be a Tory of the Cameroon sort. Even the LDs on foreign policy are too doveish for Blair and the Greens are way left of him
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
England trudging to their first defeat by Italy. Well done Mr Borthwick
Squeaky Bolognese time?
At least we can no longer pretend this is "a team in progress", and "building for the World Cup". It's a fucking mess, and Borthwick has no idea how to fix it
Oh well. Onwards to the Footie
I'm actually pleased by this result. Borthwick is taking them nowhere, and scraping a win might have allowed him to cling on.
We need to rebuild from the ground up.
I have a Welsh friend who is an absolute genius rugby analyst. His dad was nearly an international, he learned the game from the age of 3 at his papa's knee
When Borthwick was appointed he laughed, happily and said "that's the worst possible choice for England, he is a decent club manager, but no more than that. He has no imagination, no creativity, no charisma, he can't inspire anyone, he won't ever win anything and it will be just a load of kicking"
I had a horrible feeling he was right, from the get-go, and nothing since has proved my pal wrong
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
Blair is too rightwing for Labour now but too liberal on immigration and anti Brexit to be in Reform, on economics and foreign policy he could easily be a Tory of the Cameroon sort. Even the LDs on foreign policy are too doveish for Blair and the Greens are way left of him
Blair is pretty irrelevant today. He has a lot of money, though, and his institute isn't entirely bereft of sensible economic ideas.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Rubbish. There would be an opposing standard-bearer. Sunak was only elected because Boris chickened out. Howard was seen as senior, competent and a unifier. Cleverly doesn't have anything like that level of credibility.
There isn't a single Tory front bencher including Badenoch, other than Cleverly with Leadership potential.
Badenochs behaviour the past week has been pitiful.
The only option to Cleverly is a grandee like Davis. He paucity of front bench Tory talent is stark.
It's the way you tell them.
Im with @Brixian59 on this. There is no talent on the Conservative front bench other than Cleverly.
I say that as a former member of the Conservative Party and someone whose relative held two of the four Great Offices of State and could play cricket with a broken bat…
Having watched Question Time on Thursday evening, Cleverly is head and shoulders above the Shadow Cabinet, most of the Party and the Leader. I don’t like him but he has experience, an awareness of events and realpolitik, is a pragmatist and is the Conservative’s best media performer. Yesterday morning, David Lammy was on the Today programme. Like Cleverly, he knows what he can get away with, what he can say, what will make him look like a fool and how to construct an argument in a measured way.
Contrast that with the Conservative frontbench. This week, Badenoch was flanked by the political titans that are James Cartlidge and Mims Davies. I know Mims. Went to sixth form together. Her advisor at Swansea became my supervisor for one of my doctorates. As he said of her (and he was the most mild mannered of individuals)… “low wattage”.
Then there’s the rest. Priti Patel, a one woman FCO, MoD, MI6, GCHQ and glottal stop rolled into one; Chris Philp, a poor excuse for a human being; Mel Stride and Kevin Hollinrake who embody the Marxian dictum “Those are my principles, if you don’t like them, well… I have others”. Whately. Lopez. Griffith. Huddleston. Holden. There’s nothing there.
I could vote for Cleverly. The problem is he’d have to work with the same shower of incompetents.
Thing with Cleverly you can visualise him as PM. So for the current Iran blow-up he would be dealt the same hand as Starmer - your deranged supposed ally has just gone Leroy Jenkins, you have no idea what's going on, none of your ships are operational, fuel costs will go through the roof etc, etc. And I think we can trust him to muddle through somehow. It will be as OK as we can expect in the circumstances.
Badenoch just doesn't give you that confidence. She's been around forever; we know something about her and at no point has she shown any indication of stepping up.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
...Is there any issue - China, Russia, some military modernization strategy - on which Hegseth shows as much passion as when he gloats about blowing people up? It's contrary to the values of most Americans in uniform, but also bound to affect the conduct of the war.. ..Respecting the laws of war matters not just for intrinsically moral reasons, or to distinguish our warfighters from their enemies, but because it helps us prevail.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
This is the key issue in any organisation. If you continue to pander to the senile and the corrupt, then the party will die. She's on track for fewer members as they die off and fewer MP's as they get dumped by the electorate or do the chicken run to Reform.
Did I ever mention she's a dud?
I think your view has been obvious for a while
The most important policy Kemi has announced, along with the end of stamp duty, is to address the issue of student loans and vow to help NEETS and the young
By the way you may want to kill us off but others will replace us
I don't want the Conservative Party to die. I simply see the selection of Kemi as a blind alley. Look at this and tell me she's doing a great job.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
England trudging to their first defeat by Italy. Well done Mr Borthwick
Squeaky Bolognese time?
At least we can no longer pretend this is "a team in progress", and "building for the World Cup". It's a fucking mess, and Borthwick has no idea how to fix it
Oh well. Onwards to the Footie
I'm actually pleased by this result. Borthwick is taking them nowhere, and scraping a win might have allowed him to cling on.
We need to rebuild from the ground up.
I have a Welsh friend who is an absolute genius rugby analyst. His dad was nearly an international, he learned the game from the age of 3 at his papa's knee
When Borthwick was appointed he laughed, happily and said "that's the worst possible choice for England, he is a decent club manager, but no more than that. He has no imagination, no creativity, no charisma, he can't inspire anyone, he won't ever win anything and it will be just a load of kicking"
I had a horrible feeling he was right, from the get-go, and nothing since has proved my pal wrong
Journeyman player; journeyman coach. Decent guy, but just not up to the job.
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
This is the key issue in any organisation. If you continue to pander to the senile and the corrupt, then the party will die. She's on track for fewer members as they die off and fewer MP's as they get dumped by the electorate or do the chicken run to Reform.
Did I ever mention she's a dud?
I think your view has been obvious for a while
The most important policy Kemi has announced, along with the end of stamp duty, is to address the issue of student loans and vow to help NEETS and the young
By the way you may want to kill us off but others will replace us
She sat around the Cabinet table that created the NEETS crisis.
Find Out Now got Gorton and Denton completely wrong.
What did they predict? I'm not surprised though. They do it like a raffle. How they got acceptesd as a serious pollster is a mystery
Ref 36 Lab 31 Green 21
This to me proves they’re ranking Reform way too highly in their polls?
Reform do well in local elections no doubt but that’s a very large miss.
They were Reforms best pollster but no longer are, MiC and Opinium seem to score Reform best (and JLP but they are very irregular). FoN are very Green friendly (not in this poll of course) and seem to find miraculous numbrrs of Restore voters
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
There is a very good case to suggest he should be.
The Chilcot review is the most damning indictment on a PM in the history of this country.
The f***** does not even have the good grace to apologise for an outrageous and murderous error of judgement and Tories are wheeling him out to confirm Badenoch is a great war leader because Blair supports her view. Gordon Bennett!
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
I don't think any other murderer in this country has quite such an impact as Ian Huntley.
The whole CRB/DBS stuff is a direct result of him, which is a massive pain, especially if like me, you have to undergo the enhanced version.
It was needed though and has made children safer as a result.
None will mourn Huntley but why on earth he was in a workshop with metal poles and with a murderer and rapist serving a whole life term order with nothing to lose who he had apparently been arguing with on his wing is beyond me? Huntley should have served his full 40 year jail term and the Prison Service has questions to answer
'Tony Blair has rebuked Keir Starmer for his lack of support for Donald Trump's war on Iran, telling the Prime Minister: 'We should have backed America from the very beginning'.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
England trudging to their first defeat by Italy. Well done Mr Borthwick
Squeaky Bolognese time?
At least we can no longer pretend this is "a team in progress", and "building for the World Cup". It's a fucking mess, and Borthwick has no idea how to fix it
Oh well. Onwards to the Footie
I'm actually pleased by this result. Borthwick is taking them nowhere, and scraping a win might have allowed him to cling on.
We need to rebuild from the ground up.
I have a Welsh friend who is an absolute genius rugby analyst. His dad was nearly an international, he learned the game from the age of 3 at his papa's knee
When Borthwick was appointed he laughed, happily and said "that's the worst possible choice for England, he is a decent club manager, but no more than that. He has no imagination, no creativity, no charisma, he can't inspire anyone, he won't ever win anything and it will be just a load of kicking"
I had a horrible feeling he was right, from the get-go, and nothing since has proved my pal wrong
Hmm. My curiosity is peaked @Leon. I’m curious to know who this person is. My uncle was the treasurer of the WRFU in the 80s and 90s. My Dad played for Swansea and Gloucester.They (and the rest of my family) share in the opinion of Borthwick.
HMS Prince of Wales placed on five days’ notice to sail in response to Middle East crisis https://www.navylookout.com/hms-prince-of-wales-placed-on-five-days-notice-to-sail-in-response-to-middle-east-crisis/ The Royal Navy is increasing the readiness of the aircraft carrier, HMS Prince of Wales. The move shortens the time required for the carrier to put to sea, should the government decide additional naval forces are needed. It should be made clear this change of posture does not mean she will definitely be deployed, but increased readiness offers options. Alerting warships to be prepared in response to changing events is normal practice. Prince of Wales is nearing the end of a maintenance period that followed her return from the 8-month HIGHMAST deployment in December, but she remained the carrier at high readiness. (HMS Queen Elizabeth’s ongoing docking and certification period in Rosyth is now several months behind schedule, and it could be some time before she returns to service.) Reducing the notice to sail from 14 days to 5 days requires preparations to be accelerated. Final maintenance tasks must be completed, the ship’s company recalled from leave and training courses and all systems checked to ensure the ship is at the highest state of readiness. The ship already has aircraft ordnance and munitions in her magazines that were embarked last year. Should it be decided to send the carrier to the eastern Med or beyond, the immediate problem would be finding escorts...
England trudging to their first defeat by Italy. Well done Mr Borthwick
Squeaky Bolognese time?
At least we can no longer pretend this is "a team in progress", and "building for the World Cup". It's a fucking mess, and Borthwick has no idea how to fix it
Oh well. Onwards to the Footie
I'm actually pleased by this result. Borthwick is taking them nowhere, and scraping a win might have allowed him to cling on.
We need to rebuild from the ground up.
I have a Welsh friend who is an absolute genius rugby analyst. His dad was nearly an international, he learned the game from the age of 3 at his papa's knee
When Borthwick was appointed he laughed, happily and said "that's the worst possible choice for England, he is a decent club manager, but no more than that. He has no imagination, no creativity, no charisma, he can't inspire anyone, he won't ever win anything and it will be just a load of kicking"
I had a horrible feeling he was right, from the get-go, and nothing since has proved my pal wrong
Hmm. My curiosity is peaked @Leon. I’m curious to know who this person is. My uncle was the treasurer of the WRFU in the 80s and 90s. My Dad played for Swansea and Gloucester.They (and the rest of my family) share in the opinion of Borthwick.
If he turns up at the Principality next weekend with his boots he might get a game!
The Tories could get battered in the rest of England, Scotland and Wales, but if that is the result in London the media will be announcing a marvellous set of results for Team Kemi.
The media might but 93% of Tory MPs are not representing London constituencies and if they see the party battered in their English provincial local council or Holyrood elections many will start getting very jittery about holding their own seats with Kemi. It is of course Tory MPs who decide on a VONC in the party leader not the media
There will be no VONC end off
If the Tories are third or worse in the local and devolved elections in May then enough will fear for their seats to get to the 38 Tory MPs requesting a VONC for one to be held
Which she will survive easily
@HYUFD just doesn't get it for reason's I really do not understand
He wants Cleverly to lead.
Not necessarily, if the Tories are at least second on NEV in May I will row in behind Kemi absolutely but if they are third or worse then the voters will clearly have made their judgement on her after 2 successive sets of local elections when the Conservatives have not even made the top 2. In that case I am afraid Cleverly should replace her
Cleverly is on 31% approval with members and he is not the answer
That is +31% you mean!
An Ipsos poll last summer found that if Kemi was no longer Tory leader the top 3 favoured replacements for her amongst 2024 Conservative voters were Boris on 24% (who is not an MP and ineligible), then Cleverly on 14% and Sunak on 12%. Jenrick had 10% but is now in Reform, Tugendhat 7%, Hunt 5% and Patel 4% (tied with Braverman who like Jenrick is in Reform) and Stride had 2% tied with Philp.
It won't. Nobody will do an MP coronation any more. You cling to this notion because you know Cleverly is neither well-liked enough nor politically skilled enough to get through a full leadership election.
London Mayor is the best job he has a (slim) chance of getting. I suspect it will become another two-horse race, and I don't rate his chances of getting the right-wing vote over Layla Moran, you never know.
They will, they did for Howard in 2003 and effectively did for Sunak in late 2022 too (all Tory leaders who replaced leaders who won less than 40% of Tory MPs like Kemi ie IDS and Truss and would do for Cleverly too).
The London Mayor election is not for years, if Kemi is replaced after dire local and devolved elections in May for the Tories it would be Cleverly by coronation, no other candidate would get anywhere near enough Tory MP nominations to even get close to being nominated
Rubbish. There would be an opposing standard-bearer. Sunak was only elected because Boris chickened out. Howard was seen as senior, competent and a unifier. Cleverly doesn't have anything like that level of credibility.
There would not. The only opposing candidate from the right was Jenrick, he has gone to Reform and even Jenrick's old campaign manager Francois is a pal of Cleverly as indeed is Patel.
Sunak was elected with over 50% of Tory MPs nominating him in late 2022 and Boris is not an MP now. Cleverly has support across the party from Stride, who backed him in the final round in 2024, to Francois and even Kemi if she lost a VONC would I expect come in behind Sir James. Cleverly would be Tory leader within a week if Kemi went, crowned by Tory MPs like Howard in 2003
Rubbish again. Sir John Hayes is the senior member of the Tory Parliamentary right wing, and of course they will have a candidate, which could be someone like Katie Lam. You're making massive leaps of logic and I don't really know why.
Sir John Hayes would get no nominations beyond a handful and Lam is barely even know beyond her own household and is basically Reform anyway so if she was picked after a 3rd placed or worse Tory perfomance in May the Tories may as well write their own suicide note. Lam would also not therefore get the required nominations.
It would be Cleverly there is no alternative
I am not talking about him getting nominations you daft sod, I am talking about him being the senior member - the organiser. The Tory parliamentary right will field a candidate, and it's desperate wishful thinking to suggest otherwise. And they will win.
As for Lam not being a household name, not being associated with '14 years of Tory failure' is hardly a drawback for a candidate is it? What shining achievements will Cleverly expect the gratitude of the nation for?
They won't, Jenrick WAS their candidate, now he has gone they have nobody. And if Kemi's trying to go even further right than Farage act sees the Tories 3rd or worse in May leading to her removal Tory MPs certainly ain't repeating the strategy with Lam. They will shift to the centre ground with Cleverly
Your post contradicts itself. You say the right has nobody, but you feel the need to suggest that it is switching right at all that is a bad idea. That doesn't indicate that they have nobody, it indicates you hopping to a new argument because you've been found to be talking nonsense.
I don't want to attack you actually - I have respect for your taking a position and holding it, however absurd. And I understand that you wish to preserve the Tory party, and that this mad Cleverly thing is the only way you think the Tories can retain more than a negligible number of MPs.
However, even if you were right, which I don't think you are, there are bigger things at stake. The whole point of supporting any political party is because you believe that they have the right prescription for the country. The point is the policies and principles, not the colour of the rosette. A party of soggy, compromised, failed centrists under Cleverly is not the answer to any of the many questions currently facing the country. If that is the only way for the Tory Party to be preserved in its current form, perhaps the Party cannot and should not be preserved in its current form.
Comments
As for Lam not being a household name, not being associated with '14 years of Tory failure' is hardly a drawback for a candidate is it? What shining achievements will Cleverly expect the gratitude of the nation for?
THEY DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE. HE WAS GOING TO BE EXPELLED FROM PARLIAMENT FOR LYING TO IT AND WOULD HAVE LOST HIS SEAT.
Leaving aside the fact his popularity had tanked due to his boozy antics during lockdown (although tbf he was far from alone in that and many of the scum who partook are still in post).
The real mistake was not getting rid of Johnson but electing LizTruss to replace him. Who, because she is arrogant, insane and as thick as pigshit managed to blow up the government, the party, the national economy and just about everything else literally inside a month.
If they had gone for Sunak from the off they would have had a defeat but a normal rather than an epochal one.
No matter how great his 2019 victory was he lost so much parliamentary support in a few short years that he was forced out - even if that was a mistake, the very fact he was so vulnerable internally demonstrates his political prowess going into another GE would not have been that great anymore. Like Starmer, the scale of his victory should have inured him to such a challenge - that it did not indicates a profound weakness in both of them personally.
There's really no getting away from that. Call the removal a mistake, call the circumstances difficult, imagine he could have avoided suspension etc, ultimately he lost control of his MPs as a majority did not trust him anymore - and how can you seriously suggest a Leader distrusted by most of his own MPs would have gotten over 220 MPs?
File under not going to happen.
Lab 31
Green 21
Please tell me Bibi isn't taking the piss.
Polanski is the opposite end of the horseshoe to Farage, and both are equally dangerous to our country's well being and both supporters are as bad as each other
Amazing how the promising team of the autumn has devolved to this mediocrity. They're not totally abysmal, just nowhere near where they should be, given the player pool
She says Starmer is complicit in the genocide of 80,000 Gazans and has now dragged us into an illegal war.
Oh well. Onwards to the Footie
When Boris resigned the Tories were polling 30%, under Truss that collapsed to less than 20%, under Rishi increased slightly to 24% but still well down on Boris levels and now under Kemi the Tories are back down near Truss levels.
Getting rid of Boris led to more Tories going Labour after the Truss and Kwarteng budget disaster and more Tories then going Reform once Rishi became Tory leader even if he regained a few from Labour
The story will be England lose but Italy deserved that.
Borthwick is taking them nowhere, and scraping a win might have allowed him to cling on.
We need to rebuild from the ground up.
The way this weekend is going, I've just stuck a cheeky tenner of Max Verstappen to win the grand prix in the morning at 66/1.
Also backed Sir Lewis as I am a Hamilton stan.
Amid mounting diplomatic tensions between London and Washington over the conflict, Sir Tony warned his successor as Labour leader: 'If they are your ally and they are an indispensable cornerstone for your security... you had better show up'.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15623903/Tony-Blair-rebukes-Keir-Starmer-not-backing-Trump-Iran.html
I say that as a former member of the Conservative Party and someone whose relative held two of the four Great Offices of State and could play cricket with a broken bat…
Having watched Question Time on Thursday evening, Cleverly is head and shoulders above the Shadow Cabinet, most of the Party and the Leader. I don’t like him but he has experience, an awareness of events and realpolitik, is a pragmatist and is the Conservative’s best media performer. Yesterday morning, David Lammy was on the Today programme. Like Cleverly, he knows what he can get away with, what he can say, what will make him look like a fool and how to construct an argument in a measured way.
Contrast that with the Conservative frontbench. This week, Badenoch was flanked by the political titans that are James Cartlidge and Mims Davies. I know Mims. Went to sixth form together. Her advisor at Swansea became my supervisor for one of my doctorates. As he said of her (and he was the most mild mannered of individuals)… “low wattage”.
Then there’s the rest. Priti Patel, a one woman FCO, MoD, MI6, GCHQ and glottal stop rolled into one; Chris Philp, a poor excuse for a human being; Mel Stride and Kevin Hollinrake who embody the Marxian dictum “Those are my principles, if you don’t like them, well… I have others”. Whately. Lopez. Griffith. Huddleston. Holden. There’s nothing there.
I could vote for Cleverly. The problem is he’d have to work with the same shower of incompetents.
They aren't.
The car is likely a fair bit faster than it showed in qualifying, but not enough to get near Mercedes.
Its not like one of these RFU nudge nudge come play in Premership and because your mum was from England and you never played for your own country its all good.
He can do one, too.
Did I ever mention she's a dud?
I didn't expect that
Look at the difference with McLaren, who have the same engine.
(Notable stat - McLaren spent twice as long in eighth gear as did Mercedes on each lap.)
But I think the gap will close with Ferrari after a few races.
Some ally, Blair can get in the fucking sea when it comes to the Middle East.
The most important policy Kemi has announced, along with the end of stamp duty, is to address the issue of student loans and vow to help NEETS and the young
By the way you may want to kill us off but others will replace us
War criminal Blair on the same page as Kemi.
The whole CRB/DBS stuff is a direct result of him, which is a massive pain, especially if like me, you have to undergo the enhanced version.
Sing Kumbaya or i'll kick the shit out of you
When Borthwick was appointed he laughed, happily and said "that's the worst possible choice for England, he is a decent club manager, but no more than that. He has no imagination, no creativity, no charisma, he can't inspire anyone, he won't ever win anything and it will be just a load of kicking"
I had a horrible feeling he was right, from the get-go, and nothing since has proved my pal wrong
He has a lot of money, though, and his institute isn't entirely bereft of sensible economic ideas.
Badenoch just doesn't give you that confidence. She's been around forever; we know something about her and at no point has she shown any indication of stepping up.
Just look at the demented support for the murderous Marine A in the U.K. Treated as a hero. Imagine him going to The Hague.
..Respecting the laws of war matters not just for intrinsically moral reasons, or to distinguish our warfighters from their enemies, but because it helps us prevail.
See below what DOD's Law of War Manual has to say on this (and hope Hegseth doesn't burn every copy.)..
https://x.com/Malinowski/status/2030092515269840994
https://greenparty.org.uk/2025/10/19/green-party-membership-surges-past-conservatives-making-the-greens-third-largest-political-party-in-the-uk/
Reform do well in local elections no doubt but that’s a very large miss.
How he sleeps at night god only knows.
However, on the Iran war him being for it is just another reason to oppose the UK ever getting involved.
Decent guy, but just not up to the job.
They use an online free raffle as the draw to get people to answer their questions.
If you are going to criticise people, it helps to criticise what they are actually doing.
It means she will probably become President of the Earth, god help us.
None will mourn Huntley but why on earth he was in a workshop with metal poles and with a murderer and rapist serving a whole life term order with nothing to lose who he had apparently been arguing with on his wing is beyond me? Huntley should have served his full 40 year jail term and the Prison Service has questions to answer
Labour will be dancing in the streets.
Meanwhile Kemi insults the RAF for lying down and waiting for things to happen.
I've had mine since 2022 and it renews automatically for £16 pa.
HMS Prince of Wales placed on five days’ notice to sail in response to Middle East crisis
https://www.navylookout.com/hms-prince-of-wales-placed-on-five-days-notice-to-sail-in-response-to-middle-east-crisis/
The Royal Navy is increasing the readiness of the aircraft carrier, HMS Prince of Wales. The move shortens the time required for the carrier to put to sea, should the government decide additional naval forces are needed.
It should be made clear this change of posture does not mean she will definitely be deployed, but increased readiness offers options. Alerting warships to be prepared in response to changing events is normal practice.
Prince of Wales is nearing the end of a maintenance period that followed her return from the 8-month HIGHMAST deployment in December, but she remained the carrier at high readiness. (HMS Queen Elizabeth’s ongoing docking and certification period in Rosyth is now several months behind schedule, and it could be some time before she returns to service.)
Reducing the notice to sail from 14 days to 5 days requires preparations to be accelerated. Final maintenance tasks must be completed, the ship’s company recalled from leave and training courses and all systems checked to ensure the ship is at the highest state of readiness. The ship already has aircraft ordnance and munitions in her magazines that were embarked last year.
Should it be decided to send the carrier to the eastern Med or beyond, the immediate problem would be finding escorts...
Kneejerk reaction to the French deployment.
I don't want to attack you actually - I have respect for your taking a position and holding it, however absurd. And I understand that you wish to preserve the Tory party, and that this mad Cleverly thing is the only way you think the Tories can retain more than a negligible number of MPs.
However, even if you were right, which I don't think you are, there are bigger things at stake. The whole point of supporting any political party is because you believe that they have the right prescription for the country. The point is the policies and principles, not the colour of the rosette. A party of soggy, compromised, failed centrists under Cleverly is not the answer to any of the many questions currently facing the country. If that is the only way for the Tory Party to be preserved in its current form, perhaps the Party cannot and should not be preserved in its current form.