The Israeli government being quite open about the fact that this has been planned for months .
The so called negotiations between the US and Iran were a sham to begin with .
As for the Iranian regime falling very unlikely and this will likely end up with more protesters being murdered . Trump couldn’t care less how many civilians are killed and anyone who believes he does needs their brain tested .
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
Why are you so desperate for her to be working class?
Why are you so desperate for her not to be?
In fact has Spencer actually claimed to be working class, or has she just described in non RP tones her life as a non-uni educated tradesperson living and working in the area she now represents.
I’m reminded of Andrew Neil’s desperation to prove that Mhairi Black was not working class Paisley, unlike himself as he ranted in orotund, well fed tones from his South of France villa.
I'm not desperate for her not to be, she just isn't. I don't know that she has claimed it for herself at all. She seems to be middle class men's idea of what it is to be working class, and a few of the posters on here really want her to be. But she isn't, and there is nothing wrong with that
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
Why are you so desperate for her to be working class?
Why are you so desperate for her not to be?
In fact has Spencer actually claimed to be working class, or has she just described in non RP tones her life as a non-uni educated tradesperson living and working in the area she now represents.
I’m reminded of Andrew Neil’s desperation to prove that Mhairi Black was not working class Paisley, unlike himself as he ranted in orotund, well fed tones from his South of France villa.
I'm not desperate for her not to be, she just isn't. I don't know that she has claimed it for herself at all. She seems to be middle class men's idea of what it is to be working class, and a few of the posters on here really want her to be. But she isn't, and there is nothing wrong with that
Given we don't know the full situation of her up-bringing, I don't think we can give a clear view either way (whereas, we know that Keir Starmer's father was a toolmaker...).
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
Why are you so desperate for her to be working class?
Why are you so desperate for her not to be?
In fact has Spencer actually claimed to be working class, or has she just described in non RP tones her life as a non-uni educated tradesperson living and working in the area she now represents.
I’m reminded of Andrew Neil’s desperation to prove that Mhairi Black was not working class Paisley, unlike himself as he ranted in orotund, well fed tones from his South of France villa.
I'm not desperate for her not to be, she just isn't. I don't know that she has claimed it for herself at all. She seems to be middle class men's idea of what it is to be working class, and a few of the posters on here really want her to be. But she isn't, and there is nothing wrong with that
Given we don't know the full situation of her up-bringing, I don't think we can give a clear view either way (whereas, we know that Keir Starmer's father was a toolmaker...).
Keir Starmer claims to be from a working class background, but I don't think anyone born in the 60s to parents with a private mortgage had a working class upbringing. Almost all working class people lived in social housing in those days
The Israeli government being quite open about the fact that this has been planned for months .
The so called negotiations between the US and Iran were a sham to begin with .
As for the Iranian regime falling very unlikely and this will likely end up with more protesters being murdered . Trump couldn’t care less how many civilians are killed and anyone who believes he does needs their brain tested .
The negotiations seem to have been a ruse whilst planning took place
It seems it has been a massive air attack and we cannot tell how this will end, though I expect the US and Israel military have planned for all outcomes
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
I think it's genuinely what he thinks, but it is a hostage to fortune. This is classic American adventurism. Toppling a wicked regime for sure, but what comes next? Same for Kemi. Discretion is sometimes the better part of valour in these cases. Though tbf, use of our bases is not a commitment remotely on the level of Iraq.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
Why are you so desperate for her to be working class?
Why are you so desperate for her not to be?
In fact has Spencer actually claimed to be working class, or has she just described in non RP tones her life as a non-uni educated tradesperson living and working in the area she now represents.
I’m reminded of Andrew Neil’s desperation to prove that Mhairi Black was not working class Paisley, unlike himself as he ranted in orotund, well fed tones from his South of France villa.
I'm not desperate for her not to be, she just isn't. I don't know that she has claimed it for herself at all. She seems to be middle class men's idea of what it is to be working class, and a few of the posters on here really want her to be. But she isn't, and there is nothing wrong with that
Given we don't know the full situation of her up-bringing, I don't think we can give a clear view either way (whereas, we know that Keir Starmer's father was a toolmaker...).
Keir Starmer claims to be from a working class background, but I don't think anyone born in the 60s to parents with a private mortgage had a working class upbringing. Almost all working class people lived in social housing in those days
The Israeli government being quite open about the fact that this has been planned for months .
The so called negotiations between the US and Iran were a sham to begin with .
As for the Iranian regime falling very unlikely and this will likely end up with more protesters being murdered . Trump couldn’t care less how many civilians are killed and anyone who believes he does needs their brain tested .
The first line does not prove the second.
It makes perfect sense to prepare for conflict even if you hope to avoid it via negotiations. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
As for your final line, that is the real risk, that the regime does not fall. Maximum pressure needs to be exerted to ensure that it does, nothing short of regime change is acceptable.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
One of the alarming things about the mainstream parties is their inability to attract and retain normal, genuine people into.their ecosystems.
It's been a problem on the blue side for ages, possibly since the 1990s. Is it as bad on the red side?
At uni in the 90s, you certainly kept quiet about being right of centre, well if you wanted any form of sex-life anyway. All of the politically active people I knew on the left were hardly what you would call normal and or genuine.
Normal people don’t get into politics
I did alright and i was like an emotionally stunted Keith Joseph
I was in Bristol
I was in Southampton. It did exactly what it said on the tin
Went out with a girl from Southampton whist i was at uni.
I think it's genuinely what he thinks, but it is a hostage to fortune. This is classic American adventurism. Toppling a wicked regime for sure, but what comes next? Same for Kemi. Discretion is sometimes the better part of valour in these cases. Though tbf, use of our bases is not a commitment remotely on the level of Iraq.
Rupert Lowe MP @RupertLowe10 · 56m Before we start bombing yet more countries, I suggest you go to Clacton and LOOK AROUND.
That money is needed here, in Britain, spent on British people.
That’s what Restore Britain is all about. British interests first, every time
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
One of the alarming things about the mainstream parties is their inability to attract and retain normal, genuine people into.their ecosystems.
It's been a problem on the blue side for ages, possibly since the 1990s. Is it as bad on the red side?
The spiteful investigations into the minutiae of a person's background are exactly the sort of thing that put off normal people from getting involved, and then people complain that we only have weirdos and ambitious shits involved in politics.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I'm sorry is this meant to be a serious point or is it some kind of deep satire I am too thick to understand? Is the fact that she can afford to spend £205 on a ticket to a festival (that she may have saved for by putting aside £4/week) meant to demonstrate that she is some vile hypocrite? I'm struggling to see it.
Also, the photo is from 2011, nearly fifteen years ago, before a decade of austerity did so much damage - i.e. before the Tories wrecked things.
This is just the same old cobblers from the Right. Left-wing people aren't supposed to enjoy themselves, ever, and doing so is hypocritical, apparently.
I'm confused that people think a qualified plumber and plasterer would be short of cash.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
One of the alarming things about the mainstream parties is their inability to attract and retain normal, genuine people into.their ecosystems.
It's been a problem on the blue side for ages, possibly since the 1990s. Is it as bad on the red side?
The spiteful investigations into the minutiae of a person's background are exactly the sort of thing that put off normal prime from getting involved, and then people complain that we only have weirdos and ambitious shits involved in politics.
If people make claims and make a virtue of those claims then why shouldn’t they be checked out ?
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
Been a long time since it was called T in the Park - it’s been trnsmt for a few years now
I feel like a whole sector of,popular culture has passed me by although we are going to see Marti Pellow, supported by some chaps called Smoove and Turrell (me neither) at Lumley Castle later in the year.
Eldest Granddaughter and her partner regularly volunteer at festivals, including Glastonbury.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I'm sorry is this meant to be a serious point or is it some kind of deep satire I am too thick to understand? Is the fact that she can afford to spend £205 on a ticket to a festival (that she may have saved for by putting aside £4/week) meant to demonstrate that she is some vile hypocrite? I'm struggling to see it.
Also, the photo is from 2011, nearly fifteen years ago, before a decade of austerity did so much damage - i.e. before the Tories wrecked things.
This is just the same old cobblers from the Right. Left-wing people aren't supposed to enjoy themselves, ever, and doing so is hypocritical, apparently.
We were running nearly a 10% deficit and borrowing over £160bn a year (in 2010 prices).
There wasn't a choice but to make hard decisions: Labour were borrowing at the peak of the biggest boom in our history.
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
I think it's genuinely what he thinks, but it is a hostage to fortune. This is classic American adventurism. Toppling a wicked regime for sure, but what comes next? Same for Kemi. Discretion is sometimes the better part of valour in these cases. Though tbf, use of our bases is not a commitment remotely on the level of Iraq.
Rupert Lowe MP @RupertLowe10 · 56m Before we start bombing yet more countries, I suggest you go to Clacton and LOOK AROUND.
That money is needed here, in Britain, spent on British people.
That’s what Restore Britain is all about. British interests first, every time
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
News to me. But if you read the statement carefully, it does two things: it denounces 'sitting on the fence' and proceeds, despite lots of angry words, to sit very exactly on the fence.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
One of the alarming things about the mainstream parties is their inability to attract and retain normal, genuine people into.their ecosystems.
It's been a problem on the blue side for ages, possibly since the 1990s. Is it as bad on the red side?
At uni in the 90s, you certainly kept quiet about being right of centre, well if you wanted any form of sex-life anyway. All of the politically active people I knew on the left were hardly what you would call normal and or genuine.
Normal people don’t get into politics
I did alright and i was like an emotionally stunted Keith Joseph
I was in Bristol
I was in Southampton. It did exactly what it said on the tin
Went out with a girl from Southampton whist i was at uni.
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
One of the alarming things about the mainstream parties is their inability to attract and retain normal, genuine people into.their ecosystems.
It's been a problem on the blue side for ages, possibly since the 1990s. Is it as bad on the red side?
The spiteful investigations into the minutiae of a person's background are exactly the sort of thing that put off normal people from getting involved, and then people complain that we only have weirdos and ambitious shits involved in politics.
We've seen the same thing with people being obsessed with the details of Badenoch's background.
I honestly don't think it matters too much if people elide a few details about their background when they use it for a political story. What matters is the story that they're telling. Badenoch and Spencer both use their background to tell a story about the country in a way that I think works. That's a good thing. Stories are important in politics.
Starmer uses his background as a son of a toolmaker to tell a story, but he doesn't seem to be as good at it. It doesn't seem to work as a framework for an analysis of how the country is doing or how he wants to change it.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
Been a long time since it was called T in the Park - it’s been trnsmt for a few years now
David Blunket, yesterday: why has this talented young woman not joined the Labour party?
She exudes a certain sort of charm rather lacking in Labour women. Not unlike the charm possessed by Natasha Clark of LBC. I doubt if it's any use at all in running countries and the ghastly actualities of politics, and apart from its drugs policy (hooray) Green policy is insane, but she makes a change from hatchet faced performance artists.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
One of the alarming things about the mainstream parties is their inability to attract and retain normal, genuine people into.their ecosystems.
It's been a problem on the blue side for ages, possibly since the 1990s. Is it as bad on the red side?
The spiteful investigations into the minutiae of a person's background are exactly the sort of thing that put off normal people from getting involved, and then people complain that we only have weirdos and ambitious shits involved in politics.
We've seen the same thing with people being obsessed with the details of Badenoch's background.
I honestly don't think it matters too much if people elide a few details about their background when they use it for a political story. What matters is the story that they're telling. Badenoch and Spencer both use their background to tell a story about the country in a way that I think works. That's a good thing. Stories are important in politics.
Starmer uses his background as a son of a toolmaker to tell a story, but he doesn't seem to be as good at it. It doesn't seem to work as a framework for an analysis of how the country is doing or how he wants to change it.
to be clear, I am not in any way seeking to be nasty about Hannah Spencer. It doesn't matter what someone background is, it is what they say and do now that matters. What annoys me is people using class as a weapon, and pretending that somebody is something they are not. It shouldn't matter
News to me. But if you read the statement carefully, it does two things: it denounces 'sitting on the fence' and proceeds, despite lots of angry words, to sit very exactly on the fence.
At least she really is the Shadow and not some Reform cos-player who is actually just a party spokesperson.
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
Almost does not mean always, but hopefully Trump does not chicken out.
If boots are needed, boots should be sent.
If he reverts to form and chickens out and allows this regime to change, he is a miserable failure.
When can you think of when it did work?
It didn't topple Milosovic, or Saddam, or Gaddafi.
My guess is Trump will bomb the shit out of Iran for 72 hours, kill a fair number of people but likely not anyone important, declare mission acomplished and watch as they rape and murder another 100,000 protestors and doctors.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
Been a long time since it was called T in the Park - it’s been trnsmt for a few years now
David Blunket, yesterday: why has this talented young woman not joined the Labour party?
She exudes a certain sort of charm rather lacking in Labour women. Not unlike the charm possessed by Natasha Clark of LBC. I doubt if it's any use at all in running countries and the ghastly actualities of politics, and apart from its drugs policy (hooray) Green policy is insane, but she makes a change from hatchet faced performance artists.
Almost does not mean always, but hopefully Trump does not chicken out.
If boots are needed, boots should be sent.
If he reverts to form and chickens out and allows this regime to change, he is a miserable failure.
When can you think of when it did work?
It didn't topple Milosovic, or Saddam, or Gaddafi.
My guess is Trump will bomb the shit out of Iran for 72 hours, kill a fair number of people but likely not anyone important, declare mission acomplished and watch as they rape and murder another 100,000 protestors and doctors.
It did topple Gaddafi.
No western troops were sent. We only sent missiles, the locals did the rest.
If Trump does as you say, then shame on him. Not for the first time.
Russia’s foreign ministry describes the US and Israel’s actions as "reckless", saying they violate international law. Russia calls for a return to political and diplomatic solutions.
News to me. But if you read the statement carefully, it does two things: it denounces 'sitting on the fence' and proceeds, despite lots of angry words, to sit very exactly on the fence.
At least she really is the Shadow and not some Reform cos-player who is actually just a party spokesperson.
They dont even have a 'shadow FS' yet, Gullis is cup tied as mayor of Camberwick Green
Russia’s foreign ministry describes the US and Israel’s actions as "reckless", saying they violate international law. Russia calls for a return to political and diplomatic solutions.
How do they keep a straight face?
They're simply worried about losing an ally.
Yet another reason, if more were needed, why we should be joining in and supporting the liberation of Iran.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
Been a long time since it was called T in the Park - it’s been trnsmt for a few years now
I went to the first T in the Park, Primal Scream and Rage Against the Machine headlining. What a weekend!
I think it's genuinely what he thinks, but it is a hostage to fortune. This is classic American adventurism. Toppling a wicked regime for sure, but what comes next? Same for Kemi. Discretion is sometimes the better part of valour in these cases. Though tbf, use of our bases is not a commitment remotely on the level of Iraq.
Rupert Lowe MP @RupertLowe10 · 56m Before we start bombing yet more countries, I suggest you go to Clacton and LOOK AROUND.
That money is needed here, in Britain, spent on British people.
That’s what Restore Britain is all about. British interests first, every time
Having had a look at those, I don't think any of them have made a clear statement what the "British interest" is in their view, or why their proposal supports it.
Russia’s foreign ministry describes the US and Israel’s actions as "reckless", saying they violate international law. Russia calls for a return to political and diplomatic solutions.
How do they keep a straight face?
They're simply worried about losing an ally.
Yet another reason, if more were needed, why we should be joining in and supporting the liberation of Iran.
They are even more worried about losing Iranian drone production.
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
I'm an atheist, I don't believe in miracles. If you want something doing, sometimes you have to do it yourself.
Which is why force is needed.
The full power of the British armed forces should be lining up alongside America and Israel to ensure this is done.
Regime change needs more than bombs dropping .
The brave people of Iran were coming out on the streets, and we saw them slaughtered.
We should do whatever it takes to support them to freedom.
Tut-tutting and saying how awful it is while doing nothing won't see them freed.
Unless they’re willing to put boots on the ground then it’s unlikely to happen .
If need be, we should be doing that.
Whatever it takes.
Hopefully missiles are enough, but if not, then we should be sending troops.
This regime needs to go, and go now.
If you feel so strongly motivated then you are welcome to go and support the fight, in person, as you were with Ukraine. 👍
Despite being the Ultra's Ultra and mouthing off about Ukraine for fucking years, BR has conspicuously failed to get a Wolfangel tattoo and join Azov. Hopefully, he'll get his arse in gear and sign on with PJAK on Monday morning.
I don’t agree with the way this has come about, but now the US has committed to action, then they need to see the regime change through IMHO. There is no point having these periodic attacks that do little to cow the regime, and leave it to continue in place.
Russia’s foreign ministry describes the US and Israel’s actions as "reckless", saying they violate international law. Russia calls for a return to political and diplomatic solutions.
How do they keep a straight face?
They're simply worried about losing an ally.
Yet another reason, if more were needed, why we should be joining in and supporting the liberation of Iran.
They are even more worried about losing Iranian drone production.
Indeed.
We have a military interest in seeing this war succeed.
Russia’s foreign ministry describes the US and Israel’s actions as "reckless", saying they violate international law. Russia calls for a return to political and diplomatic solutions.
How do they keep a straight face?
They're simply worried about losing an ally.
Yet another reason, if more were needed, why we should be joining in and supporting the liberation of Iran.
From a geopolitical perspective, Russia losing Iran would be a significant bonus.
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
I'm an atheist, I don't believe in miracles. If you want something doing, sometimes you have to do it yourself.
Which is why force is needed.
The full power of the British armed forces should be lining up alongside America and Israel to ensure this is done.
Regime change needs more than bombs dropping .
The brave people of Iran were coming out on the streets, and we saw them slaughtered.
We should do whatever it takes to support them to freedom.
Tut-tutting and saying how awful it is while doing nothing won't see them freed.
Unless they’re willing to put boots on the ground then it’s unlikely to happen .
It won't happen.
In a country of 90 million people covering 2.5x as much area as Ukraine?
I think even Trumpski can smell "quagmire".
Not a single ally would send any forces anyway, given that Trump publicly lied about the contribution made last time, then pissed on the graves of the ones who died fighting alongside the USA.
Almost does not mean always, but hopefully Trump does not chicken out.
If boots are needed, boots should be sent.
If he reverts to form and chickens out and allows this regime to change, he is a miserable failure.
When can you think of when it did work?
It didn't topple Milosovic, or Saddam, or Gaddafi.
My guess is Trump will bomb the shit out of Iran for 72 hours, kill a fair number of people but likely not anyone important, declare mission acomplished and watch as they rape and murder another 100,000 protestors and doctors.
It did topple Gaddafi.
No western troops were sent. We only sent missiles, the locals did the rest.
If Trump does as you say, then shame on him. Not for the first time.
There's not the slightest evidence that Trump will send troops in. The military buildup hasn't included troops, the 450,000 strong US army doesn't have enough to occupy a country of 90 million, or even a significant part of it, and there is a lot of evidence that it would be a political catastrophe for him if he tried.
Trump is completely ignorant of foreign countries and the patient, painstaking and detailed work that diplomacy needs is the complete opposite of his personality. Also, like so many US presidents before him, he has the Jupiter complex - the idea that he can just throw a few thunderbolts from the air and everything will somehow work out fine.
So this has all the makings of a complete failure - only if the Iranian regime has been so weakened internally that it will crumble can I see it being at all successful. But I'm rather afraid that Trump missed that opportunity a few weeks back.
News to me. But if you read the statement carefully, it does two things: it denounces 'sitting on the fence' and proceeds, despite lots of angry words, to sit very exactly on the fence.
At least she really is the Shadow and not some Reform cos-player who is actually just a party spokesperson.
They dont even have a 'shadow FS' yet, Gullis is cup tied as mayor of Camberwick Green
The appointment of Patel was one of Badenoch's strangest decisions. Tugendhat would be far more obvious. Felt she needed a Brexiteer?
Russia’s foreign ministry describes the US and Israel’s actions as "reckless", saying they violate international law. Russia calls for a return to political and diplomatic solutions.
How do they keep a straight face?
Probably by interviewing them next to a very large open window
Almost does not mean always, but hopefully Trump does not chicken out.
If boots are needed, boots should be sent.
If he reverts to form and chickens out and allows this regime to change, he is a miserable failure.
When can you think of when it did work?
It didn't topple Milosovic, or Saddam, or Gaddafi.
My guess is Trump will bomb the shit out of Iran for 72 hours, kill a fair number of people but likely not anyone important, declare mission acomplished and watch as they rape and murder another 100,000 protestors and doctors.
It did topple Gaddafi.
No western troops were sent. We only sent missiles, the locals did the rest.
If Trump does as you say, then shame on him. Not for the first time.
There's not the slightest evidence that Trump will send troops in. The military buildup hasn't included troops, the 450,000 strong US army doesn't have enough to occupy a country of 90 million, or even a significant part of it, and there is a lot of evidence that it would be a political catastrophe for him if he tried.
Trump is completely ignorant of foreign countries and the patient, painstaking and detailed work that diplomacy needs is the complete opposite of his personality. Also, like so many US presidents before him, he has the Jupiter complex - the idea that he can just throw a few thunderbolts from the air and everything will somehow work out fine.
So this has all the makings of a complete failure - only if the Iranian regime has been so weakened internally that it will crumble can I see it being at all successful. But I'm rather afraid that Trump missed that opportunity a few weeks back.
It would have been better to launch this a few weeks ago, agreed, but better late than never.
The brave Iranian people want freedom. We should do whatever it takes to support them.
The fall of this regime, the downfall of another Russian ally, would make the world a considerably better place.
For all those who are saying it is unlikely to succeed - what gives a better probability of success? Standing back with your thumbs in your arse doing nothing won't see regime change, so what better alternative do you have?
If there's no better alternative, then this is the right thing to do. Once you've eliminated ...
Almost does not mean always, but hopefully Trump does not chicken out.
If boots are needed, boots should be sent.
If he reverts to form and chickens out and allows this regime to change, he is a miserable failure.
When can you think of when it did work?
It didn't topple Milosovic, or Saddam, or Gaddafi.
My guess is Trump will bomb the shit out of Iran for 72 hours, kill a fair number of people but likely not anyone important, declare mission acomplished and watch as they rape and murder another 100,000 protestors and doctors.
It did topple Gaddafi.
No western troops were sent. We only sent missiles, the locals did the rest.
If Trump does as you say, then shame on him. Not for the first time.
I think it's pushing it a bit to say airstrikes toppled Gaddafi. Rather, I would say that they prevented him crushing the uprising in Benghazi, and he was later overthrown by that uprising.
That's not negligible, but on their own they would not have been enough. There were boots on the ground - just Libyan ones.
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
One of the alarming things about the mainstream parties is their inability to attract and retain normal, genuine people into.their ecosystems.
It's been a problem on the blue side for ages, possibly since the 1990s. Is it as bad on the red side?
The debate about class is a bit pointless, as we all have different definitions, and who cares anyway. There are plenty of normal people in politis, but you have to be fairly obsessive to get to be an MP, or else simply lucky. I was fortunate to be swept in by the 1997 wave against a decent MP who had such an apparently safe seat that he no longer bothered to canvass. Then I dug in by canvassing the seat to death for 13 years, perhaps at the expense of my then marriage. It certainly wouldn't have been possible if I'd pursued a rounded life and treated politics as a 9 to 5 job, and that does seem to me a problem.
News to me. But if you read the statement carefully, it does two things: it denounces 'sitting on the fence' and proceeds, despite lots of angry words, to sit very exactly on the fence.
At least she really is the Shadow and not some Reform cos-player who is actually just a party spokesperson.
They dont even have a 'shadow FS' yet, Gullis is cup tied as mayor of Camberwick Green
The appointment of Patel was one of Badenoch's strangest decisions. Tugendhat would be far more obvious. Felt she needed a Brexiteer?
Probably, yeah. Priti has some vocal backing too that she'd want to keep onside
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
All true.
I’ve attended most UK festivals over many years, and whilst Glasto is certainly full of posh boys and girls glamping it up, it is also still an eclectic mix of all sorts. download in particular is stunningly mixed (in class terms anyway) Reading and Leeds, and TitP skew slightly more working class.
Hannah seems like a genuine, hard working and thoughtful person and I’m sure will make a fantastic constituency MP. She seems far too good for the Greens.
One of the alarming things about the mainstream parties is their inability to attract and retain normal, genuine people into.their ecosystems.
It's been a problem on the blue side for ages, possibly since the 1990s. Is it as bad on the red side?
At uni in the 90s, you certainly kept quiet about being right of centre, well if you wanted any form of sex-life anyway. All of the politically active people I knew on the left were hardly what you would call normal and or genuine.
Normal people don’t get into politics
I got involved just enough with student politics to know that I really didn't like student politics. I don't want to boast but I had a lot of sex at university.
Almost does not mean always, but hopefully Trump does not chicken out.
If boots are needed, boots should be sent.
If he reverts to form and chickens out and allows this regime to change, he is a miserable failure.
When can you think of when it did work?
It didn't topple Milosovic, or Saddam, or Gaddafi.
My guess is Trump will bomb the shit out of Iran for 72 hours, kill a fair number of people but likely not anyone important, declare mission acomplished and watch as they rape and murder another 100,000 protestors and doctors.
It did topple Gaddafi.
No western troops were sent. We only sent missiles, the locals did the rest.
If Trump does as you say, then shame on him. Not for the first time.
I think it's pushing it a bit to say airstrikes toppled Gaddafi. Rather, I would say that they prevented him crushing the uprising in Benghazi, and he was later overthrown by that uprising.
That's not negligible, but on their own they would not have been enough. There were boots on the ground - just Libyan ones.
And if this succeeds, then a few years from now future-you would be saying if there were a potential future conflict elsewhere "there were boots on the ground - just Iranian ones".
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
I'm wary of the "to his utmost" bit. It's possible to be cautiously supportive.
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
I'm wary of the "to his utmost" bit. It's possible to be cautiously supportive.
Almost does not mean always, but hopefully Trump does not chicken out.
If boots are needed, boots should be sent.
If he reverts to form and chickens out and allows this regime to change, he is a miserable failure.
When can you think of when it did work?
It didn't topple Milosovic, or Saddam, or Gaddafi.
My guess is Trump will bomb the shit out of Iran for 72 hours, kill a fair number of people but likely not anyone important, declare mission acomplished and watch as they rape and murder another 100,000 protestors and doctors.
It did topple Gaddafi.
No western troops were sent. We only sent missiles, the locals did the rest.
If Trump does as you say, then shame on him. Not for the first time.
I think it's pushing it a bit to say airstrikes toppled Gaddafi. Rather, I would say that they prevented him crushing the uprising in Benghazi, and he was later overthrown by that uprising.
That's not negligible, but on their own they would not have been enough. There were boots on the ground - just Libyan ones.
And if this succeeds, then a few years from now future-you would be saying if there were a potential future conflict elsewhere "there were boots on the ground - just Iranian ones".
Which Iranian boots? There was an entire rebel army in Libya. There's nothing like that in Iran although there could have been two months ago.
I think it's genuinely what he thinks, but it is a hostage to fortune. This is classic American adventurism. Toppling a wicked regime for sure, but what comes next? Same for Kemi. Discretion is sometimes the better part of valour in these cases. Though tbf, use of our bases is not a commitment remotely on the level of Iraq.
Rupert Lowe MP @RupertLowe10 · 56m Before we start bombing yet more countries, I suggest you go to Clacton and LOOK AROUND.
That money is needed here, in Britain, spent on British people.
That’s what Restore Britain is all about. British interests first, every time
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
I'm wary of the "to his utmost" bit. It's possible to be cautiously supportive.
Assume in his excitement Hasbaratholomew means ‘to our utmost’, which tbf will involve as much physical risk to him as it does Trump, that is a big fat אֶפֶס.
They are already quite hostile but not as powerful as Saudi. Destroying the UAE would totally mess with the world’s economy and show that messing with Iran comes at a very heavy price. I imagine Israel and Trump would back off
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
The Israeli government being quite open about the fact that this has been planned for months .
The so called negotiations between the US and Iran were a sham to begin with .
As for the Iranian regime falling very unlikely and this will likely end up with more protesters being murdered . Trump couldn’t care less how many civilians are killed and anyone who believes he does needs their brain tested .
The negotiations seem to have been a ruse whilst planning took place
It seems it has been a massive air attack and we cannot tell how this will end, though I expect the US and Israel military have planned for all outcomes
Noticeable that the DJI took a sudden dip after the open yesterday, presumably the Trump Investment Circle getting its positions down early?
Trump warned me that if I voted for Kamala Harris we’d have higher prices and a government-run economy at home and new wars abroad, and I voted for Harris and that’s exactly what we got. https://x.com/mattyglesias/status/2027692621418635704
News to me. But if you read the statement carefully, it does two things: it denounces 'sitting on the fence' and proceeds, despite lots of angry words, to sit very exactly on the fence.
At least she really is the Shadow and not some Reform cos-player who is actually just a party spokesperson.
They dont even have a 'shadow FS' yet, Gullis is cup tied as mayor of Camberwick Green
'Why not give the gig to Rosindell?' is what's known as a self-answering question.
The Israeli government being quite open about the fact that this has been planned for months .
The so called negotiations between the US and Iran were a sham to begin with .
As for the Iranian regime falling very unlikely and this will likely end up with more protesters being murdered . Trump couldn’t care less how many civilians are killed and anyone who believes he does needs their brain tested .
The negotiations seem to have been a ruse whilst planning took place
It seems it has been a massive air attack and we cannot tell how this will end, though I expect the US and Israel military have planned for all outcomes
Noticeable that the DJI took a sudden dip after the open yesterday, presumably the Trump Investment Circle getting its positions down early?
No, that's most Fridays. But no doubt some insider will have been trading.
Tump is a vile President whom the Americans should never have elected, however if its a battle between Trump and the Ayatollahs, then we should support Trump to his utmost for this . . . just like Churchill worked with Stalin to defeat Hitler.
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
Sadly it would need a miracle to get rid of the regime. I posted this earlier and it explains why it would be incredibly difficult for that to happen .
I'm an atheist, I don't believe in miracles. If you want something doing, sometimes you have to do it yourself.
Which is why force is needed.
The full power of the British armed forces should be lining up alongside America and Israel to ensure this is done.
Regime change needs more than bombs dropping .
The brave people of Iran were coming out on the streets, and we saw them slaughtered.
We should do whatever it takes to support them to freedom.
Tut-tutting and saying how awful it is while doing nothing won't see them freed.
Unless they’re willing to put boots on the ground then it’s unlikely to happen .
If need be, we should be doing that.
Whatever it takes.
Hopefully missiles are enough, but if not, then we should be sending troops.
This regime needs to go, and go now.
If you feel so strongly motivated then you are welcome to go and support the fight, in person, as you were with Ukraine. 👍
Despite being the Ultra's Ultra and mouthing off about Ukraine for fucking years, BR has conspicuously failed to get a Wolfangel tattoo and join Azov. Hopefully, he'll get his arse in gear and sign on with PJAK on Monday morning.
I’m sure he’d be the last to join up but the first to hand out white feathers.
I think it's genuinely what he thinks, but it is a hostage to fortune. This is classic American adventurism. Toppling a wicked regime for sure, but what comes next? Same for Kemi. Discretion is sometimes the better part of valour in these cases. Though tbf, use of our bases is not a commitment remotely on the level of Iraq.
Rupert Lowe MP @RupertLowe10 · 56m Before we start bombing yet more countries, I suggest you go to Clacton and LOOK AROUND.
That money is needed here, in Britain, spent on British people.
That’s what Restore Britain is all about. British interests first, every time
Got to say, that is an effective retort by Lowelife.
Why the fuck is the British taxpayer forking out to defend Doha? Those fuckers have all the combat aircraft and more for doing it themselves.
Except we're not bombing anyone. He appears confused.
The RAF is in the air shooting down Iranian missiles, so we are a step closer to meeting Starmer's defence spending target but not in a way that strengthens British defence forces. Shades of Afghanistan when we bought cruise missiles from America and fired them at targets chosen by America.
Almost does not mean always, but hopefully Trump does not chicken out.
If boots are needed, boots should be sent.
If he reverts to form and chickens out and allows this regime to change, he is a miserable failure.
When can you think of when it did work?
It didn't topple Milosovic, or Saddam, or Gaddafi.
My guess is Trump will bomb the shit out of Iran for 72 hours, kill a fair number of people but likely not anyone important, declare mission acomplished and watch as they rape and murder another 100,000 protestors and doctors.
It did topple Gaddafi.
No western troops were sent. We only sent missiles, the locals did the rest.
If Trump does as you say, then shame on him. Not for the first time.
I think it's pushing it a bit to say airstrikes toppled Gaddafi. Rather, I would say that they prevented him crushing the uprising in Benghazi, and he was later overthrown by that uprising.
That's not negligible, but on their own they would not have been enough. There were boots on the ground - just Libyan ones.
And if this succeeds, then a few years from now future-you would be saying if there were a potential future conflict elsewhere "there were boots on the ground - just Iranian ones".
Which Iranian boots? There was an entire rebel army in Libya. There's nothing like that in Iran although there could have been two months ago.
If there could have been two months ago, then there could be now.
The regime has slaughtered too many, and we stood by and watched, but they have not slaughtered everyone who wants freedom. The brave Iranian people have been prepared to come out and say they want freedom. They could again.
We need to neuter their oppressors, hopefully they can do the rest.
Gorton and Denton were said to be two very different areas of the constituency. Do we have a good breakdown of voting patterns in each and more interestingly, the turnout?
They are already quite hostile but not as powerful as Saudi. Destroying the UAE would totally mess with the world’s economy and show that messing with Iran comes at a very heavy price. I imagine Israel and Trump would back off
For anyone not up with fashion, Hannah Spencer now MP, at Glasto, in 2011:
"At home, a lot of girls dress the same way. It's boring. I pretty much dress like this all the time. People always get a shock when I turn up to their door to fix something. I work with lots of fortysomething men and they probably just think I'm a bit weird."
I am no different to every single person here in this constituency. I work hard. That’s what we do.
Except things have changed a lot over the last few decades. Because working hard used to get you something. It got you a house. A nice life. Holidays. It got you somewhere.
But now – working hard? What does that get you? Because talk to anyone here and they’ll tell you. The people who work hard but can’t put food on the table. Can’t get their kids school uniforms. Can’t put their heating on. Can’t live off the pension they worked hard to save for. Can’t even begin to dream about ever having a holiday. Ever. Because life has changed.
Well, she was able to cough up the £205 to go to Glastonbury.
I don't know who else on here goes to music festivals, but there are a lot of working class people at them, even posh ones like Glasto and Latitude, and at Download or Leeds probably form a majority.
£205 for a long weekend with unlimited entertainment is not bad value, comparable to a few away matches to follow a football team, which is unremarkeable working class entertainment for many.
The idea that the only authentic working class is neanderthal knuckledraggers is a pretty crude bit of political bubble prejudice. Even assuming that Spencer won Gorton comfortably she must have had 20-25% of the vote in Denton. Or are they disqualified from being working class automatically by voting Green, in a sort of "no true Scotsman" sort of paradox?
Why are you so desperate for her to be working class?
Why are you so desperate for her not to be?
In fact has Spencer actually claimed to be working class, or has she just described in non RP tones her life as a non-uni educated tradesperson living and working in the area she now represents.
I’m reminded of Andrew Neil’s desperation to prove that Mhairi Black was not working class Paisley, unlike himself as he ranted in orotund, well fed tones from his South of France villa.
I'm not desperate for her not to be, she just isn't. I don't know that she has claimed it for herself at all. She seems to be middle class men's idea of what it is to be working class, and a few of the posters on here really want her to be. But she isn't, and there is nothing wrong with that
Given we don't know the full situation of her up-bringing, I don't think we can give a clear view either way (whereas, we know that Keir Starmer's father was a toolmaker...).
Keir Starmer claims to be from a working class background, but I don't think anyone born in the 60s to parents with a private mortgage had a working class upbringing. Almost all working class people lived in social housing in those days
Maybe they did in London. Most of the people in my home town worked down the pit or in associated industries. There was very little social housing.
If FIFA did, for some reason, regularly give out a Peace Prize, you’d think #1 on the list of criteria for potential winners would be “do not start a war with another nation in the World Cup, directly before the start of the World Cup”
They are already quite hostile but not as powerful as Saudi. Destroying the UAE would totally mess with the world’s economy and show that messing with Iran comes at a very heavy price. I imagine Israel and Trump would back off
Oi, watch it you!
Thoughts and prayers
But I was being serious and I’m not trying to scare you. It must be an option if the mullahs think they are genuinely going down. However I think you’d get some warning
Besides, like me you braved Ukraine during the war. You can cope! You’re a man of steel
They are already quite hostile but not as powerful as Saudi. Destroying the UAE would totally mess with the world’s economy and show that messing with Iran comes at a very heavy price. I imagine Israel and Trump would back off
If FIFA did, for some reason, regularly give out a Peace Prize, you’d think #1 on the list of criteria for potential winners would be “do not start a war with another nation in the World Cup, directly before the start of the World Cup”
FIFA are a corrupt joke. Trump is a corrupt POTUS.
But the Iranian regime is infinitely worse.
Just because Trump is bad, is no reason to oppose the liberation of Iran. Your reflexive "anything Trump does is bad" attitude is drowning out all else.
How else should the Iranian people be freed, given that the regime is slaughtering protestors? Other than force, what alternative do you propose?
Should we all just sit back, watch the Iranians get slaughtered, watch Iran supply Russia with drones and tut and do jack shit?
They are already quite hostile but not as powerful as Saudi. Destroying the UAE would totally mess with the world’s economy and show that messing with Iran comes at a very heavy price. I imagine Israel and Trump would back off
Oi, watch it you!
Thoughts and prayers
But I was being serious and I’m not trying to scare you. It must be an option if the mullahs think they are genuinely going down. However I think you’d get some warning
Besides, like me you braved Ukraine during the war. You can cope! You’re a man of steel
If you believe social media Khameini is with nanna and the angles.
Comments
The so called negotiations between the US and Iran were a sham to begin with .
As for the Iranian regime falling very unlikely and this will likely end up with more protesters being murdered . Trump couldn’t care less how many civilians are killed and anyone who believes he does needs their brain tested .
https://x.com/pritipatel/status/2027706367960649910
It seems it has been a massive air attack and we cannot tell how this will end, though I expect the US and Israel military have planned for all outcomes
Nothing short of regime change should be acceptable for this conflict. Whatever it takes to see regime change in Iran.
I think it's genuinely what he thinks, but it is a hostage to fortune. This is classic American adventurism. Toppling a wicked regime for sure, but what comes next? Same for Kemi. Discretion is sometimes the better part of valour in these cases. Though tbf, use of our bases is not a commitment remotely on the level of Iraq.
It makes perfect sense to prepare for conflict even if you hope to avoid it via negotiations. Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.
As for your final line, that is the real risk, that the regime does not fall. Maximum pressure needs to be exerted to ensure that it does, nothing short of regime change is acceptable.
Rupert Lowe MP
@RupertLowe10
·
56m
Before we start bombing yet more countries, I suggest you go to Clacton and LOOK AROUND.
That money is needed here, in Britain, spent on British people.
That’s what Restore Britain is all about. British interests first, every time
https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/2027703658931011765?s=20
https://www.meforum.org/mef-online/survival-over-defection-why-irans-military-elites-stay-loyal
I am unsure if this was related to me being a Tory.
Of course he's right. Shame on Starmer.
Which is why force is needed.
The full power of the British armed forces should be lining up alongside America and Israel to ensure this is done.
There wasn't a choice but to make hard decisions: Labour were borrowing at the peak of the biggest boom in our history.
Why the fuck is the British taxpayer forking out to defend Doha? Those fuckers have all the combat aircraft and more for doing it themselves.
We should do whatever it takes to support them to freedom.
Tut-tutting and saying how awful it is while doing nothing won't see them freed.
Whatever it takes.
Hopefully missiles are enough, but if not, then we should be sending troops.
This regime needs to go, and go now.
I honestly don't think it matters too much if people elide a few details about their background when they use it for a political story. What matters is the story that they're telling. Badenoch and Spencer both use their background to tell a story about the country in a way that I think works. That's a good thing. Stories are important in politics.
Starmer uses his background as a son of a toolmaker to tell a story, but he doesn't seem to be as good at it. It doesn't seem to work as a framework for an analysis of how the country is doing or how he wants to change it.
@McFaul
Trump implied tonight that we would only use air power to achieve regime change. That almost never works.
https://x.com/McFaul/status/2027662237922693491
(Former US Ambassador)
You can’t beat a bit of Bully !
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c3wl5v7q7w8o
If boots are needed, boots should be sent.
If he reverts to form and chickens out and allows this regime to change, he is a miserable failure.
WE WANT A NUKE
WE WANT A NUKE
It didn't topple Milosovic, or Saddam, or Gaddafi.
My guess is Trump will bomb the shit out of Iran for 72 hours, kill a fair number of people but likely not anyone important, declare mission acomplished and watch as they rape and murder another 100,000 protestors and doctors.
No western troops were sent. We only sent missiles, the locals did the rest.
If Trump does as you say, then shame on him. Not for the first time.
How do they keep a straight face?
Yet another reason, if more were needed, why we should be joining in and supporting the liberation of Iran.
We have a military interest in seeing this war succeed.
Why are we standing by and doing nothing?
Shame on Starmer.
And the winner wears posh wellingtons.
So there's that.
In a country of 90 million people covering 2.5x as much area as Ukraine?
I think even Trumpski can smell "quagmire".
Not a single ally would send any forces anyway, given that Trump publicly lied about the contribution made last time, then pissed on the graves of the ones who died fighting alongside the USA.
America, Alone.
Trump is completely ignorant of foreign countries and the patient, painstaking and detailed work that diplomacy needs is the complete opposite of his personality. Also, like so many US presidents before him, he has the Jupiter complex - the idea that he can just throw a few thunderbolts from the air and everything will somehow work out fine.
So this has all the makings of a complete failure - only if the Iranian regime has been so weakened internally that it will crumble can I see it being at all successful. But I'm rather afraid that Trump missed that opportunity a few weeks back.
The brave Iranian people want freedom. We should do whatever it takes to support them.
The fall of this regime, the downfall of another Russian ally, would make the world a considerably better place.
For all those who are saying it is unlikely to succeed - what gives a better probability of success? Standing back with your thumbs in your arse doing nothing won't see regime change, so what better alternative do you have?
If there's no better alternative, then this is the right thing to do. Once you've eliminated ...
That's not negligible, but on their own they would not have been enough. There were boots on the ground - just Libyan ones.
operation epic fury was carefully selected from a list of respectful names including
operation epic pwn
operation so fury, much illegal
operation jesterbombing, furymaxxing
@samfr.bsky.social
They might as well call it Operation Tiny Penis. Pathetic.
He appears confused.
(Sorry @Sandpit)
They are already quite hostile but not as powerful as Saudi. Destroying the UAE would totally mess with the world’s economy and show that messing with Iran comes at a very heavy price. I imagine Israel and Trump would back off
https://www.racingpost.com/news/international/uae/meydans-super-saturday-card-set-to-go-ahead-despite-iranian-missile-attacks-on-united-arab-emirates-aNNyS7J6odLt/
Dubai's horseracing goes ahead.
Perhaps he's gone hack for the peace and quiet.
(IIRC he was hiding in an Irish bar, on the basis that it was neutral. Begorrah ! )
Operation Market Garden
Operation Discount Biscuits
Operation Nice Sit Down
Trump warned me that if I voted for Kamala Harris we’d have higher prices and a government-run economy at home and new wars abroad, and I voted for Harris and that’s exactly what we got.
https://x.com/mattyglesias/status/2027692621418635704
But no doubt some insider will have been trading.
The regime has slaughtered too many, and we stood by and watched, but they have not slaughtered everyone who wants freedom. The brave Iranian people have been prepared to come out and say they want freedom. They could again.
We need to neuter their oppressors, hopefully they can do the rest.
Operation Mincemeat could be taken either way.
I’ve been to Ukraine three times since the 2022 war started, and had to buy new sets of windows for two apartments.
Most of the people in my home town worked down the pit or in associated industries.
There was very little social housing.
If FIFA did, for some reason, regularly give out a Peace Prize, you’d think #1 on the list of criteria for potential winners would be “do not start a war with another nation in the World Cup, directly before the start of the World Cup”
https://bsky.app/profile/rodger.bsky.social/post/3mfwc2cylwk25
But I was being serious and I’m not trying to scare you. It must be an option if the mullahs think they are genuinely going down. However I think you’d get some warning
Besides, like me you braved Ukraine during the war. You can cope! You’re a man of steel
Trump is a corrupt POTUS.
But the Iranian regime is infinitely worse.
Just because Trump is bad, is no reason to oppose the liberation of Iran. Your reflexive "anything Trump does is bad" attitude is drowning out all else.
How else should the Iranian people be freed, given that the regime is slaughtering protestors? Other than force, what alternative do you propose?
Should we all just sit back, watch the Iranians get slaughtered, watch Iran supply Russia with drones and tut and do jack shit?