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The Labour brand is the most liked, the Starmer brand less so – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,943
edited 7:31AM in General
The Labour brand is the most liked, the Starmer brand less so – politicalbetting.com

The general rule is if a party leader is more liked than their party then the party will poll better than the polls suggest and the opposite is true, so on this basis Ed Davey, Zack Polanski, and Kemi Badenoch are positives for their parties whereas Sir Keir Starmer and Nigel Farage are drags on their parties.

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Comments

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,078
    Interesting that Farage also polls worse than his party.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,298
    Second!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,620
    TSE is on holiday until the 1st of March.

    Oh shit :-(
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,078
    Also it suggests that a leadership change could put Labour back in the race to form the next government.

    Starmer's time is up. Ironic that the thing most likely to bring down the prig is covering up for paedophiles.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,914

    TSE is on holiday until the 1st of March.

    Oh shit :-(

    What could possibly go wrong?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,589

    TSE is on holiday until the 1st of March.

    Oh shit :-(

    This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System...

    https://youtu.be/6YRHAro1iTE
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,294
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2026/feb/11/paul-dacre-court-daily-mail-sketch

    Off topic, any Cambridge educated (or equally qualified) lawyers have comments on the time-limiting of Dacre's cross-examination?
    Seems he's another editor who had only a passing interest in the origin and substantiation of the new stories published in his papers.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,059
    edited 7:46AM
    "The general rule is if a party leader is more liked than their party then the party will poll better than the polls "

    Is that actually true? Or is it just speculation?

    Sources needed.

    The VI polls just before an election predict the result pretty well - I once found a 90% correlation between the governing party's share in the polls three months before and in the subsequent vote. Leader favourability had a rather lower correlation. But I'm open minded, and if there's a correlation between polling error and leader favourability I'd be happy to see the evidence.

    Otherwise, leader favourability is just a curiosity - interesting but fundamentally meaningless to what actually matters.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,379
    Fishing said:

    "The general rule is if a party leader is more liked than their party then the party will poll better than the polls "

    Is that actually true? Or is it just speculation?

    Sources needed.

    The VI polls just before an election predict the result pretty well - I once found a 90% correlation between the governing party's share in the polls three months before and in the subsequent vote. Leader favourability had a rather lower correlation. But I'm open minded, and if there's a correlation between polling error and leader favourability I'd be happy to see the evidence.

    Otherwise, leader favourability is just a curiosity - interesting but fundamentally meaningless to what actually matters.

    It's a longstanding PB rule, espoused by OGH as I understand it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,703
    Foxy said:

    Also it suggests that a leadership change could put Labour back in the race to form the next government.

    Starmer's time is up. Ironic that the thing most likely to bring down the prig is covering up for paedophiles.

    I have not seen Starmer in such a rage at the excellent question by Ed

    He lost it and continued the angry man act throughout PMQs

    It is no wonder his female mps are unimpressed with him
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,703

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    It's the way I tell em
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,516

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    Cutting the cost of living.??? Its nonsense. Just shows how out of touch they are.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,998
    edited 8:00AM

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    Cutting the cost of living.??? Its nonsense. Just shows how out of touch they are.
    its gaslighting.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,820
    Foxy said:

    Interesting that Farage also polls worse than his party.

    Still not very en-Tice-ing....
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,914

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,426
    edited 8:02AM
    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,294
    edited 8:07AM
    Foxy said:

    Also it suggests that a leadership change could put Labour back in the race to form the next government.

    Starmer's time is up. Ironic that the thing most likely to bring down the prig is covering up for paedophiles.

    Appointing people who associated with paedophiles. He hasn't covered up for any.

    At this point he could be up a tree trying to rescue a kitten and there'd be a lynch mob burning tyres around it and throwing stones.

    He's cursed with Brown's popularity. I reckon that you preface a similar poll for Brown era leaders with the statement "Brown has spent his time since being PM campaigning to end child poverty and VAWG while Clegg has earned millions helping Facebook/Meta avoid regulation to mitigate exploitation of children on their platforms"
    and Brown would still have a lower like and far higher dislike polling than Clegg.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,998
    edited 8:04AM

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions. Things like construction are doing badly, construction, that thing the government want to be building a squillon homes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,426

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    Cutting the cost of living.??? Its nonsense. Just shows how out of touch they are.
    It's a plan to cut the cost of living. That doesn't mean that the cost of living has actually fallen.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 35,131

    Foxy said:

    Also it suggests that a leadership change could put Labour back in the race to form the next government.

    Starmer's time is up. Ironic that the thing most likely to bring down the prig is covering up for paedophiles.

    I have not seen Starmer in such a rage at the excellent question by Ed

    He lost it and continued the angry man act throughout PMQs

    It is no wonder his female mps are unimpressed with him
    Starmer was equally angry with Kemi and Stephen Flynn at PMQs. Taken together, it looked less like genuine anger and more a pre-planned tactic. He answered none of the leaders' questions and instead ranted about their failings. If you want to see what the Prime Minister really felt, look back at last week's.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,078

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions.
    It certainly is a bit feeble, but isn't it up on 2024 (1.0%) and 2023 (0.3%)?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,961
    edited 8:08AM
    24% like the Conservative party ie what they got in 2024 so clearly not all who even like the Tories are voting Tory under Kemi, so whatever her personal rating she has to improve that.

    Whereas Farage and Starmer are at least getting about the same who like them to vote for their party, in Farage's case often slightly more and closer to those who like his party.

    Davey and Polanski face the same problem as Kemi and more so, they are not getting all those who like them to vote for their parties
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,914

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    Cutting the cost of living.??? Its nonsense. Just shows how out of touch they are.
    It's a plan to cut the cost of living. That doesn't mean that the cost of living has actually fallen.
    Well the average household’s two biggest costs are housing and energy, with little reason to expect a fall in either any time soon.

    The only thing that might help is if the BoE cuts interest rates.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,862

    Foxy said:

    Also it suggests that a leadership change could put Labour back in the race to form the next government.

    Starmer's time is up. Ironic that the thing most likely to bring down the prig is covering up for paedophiles.

    I have not seen Starmer in such a rage at the excellent question by Ed

    He lost it and continued the angry man act throughout PMQs

    It is no wonder his female mps are unimpressed with him
    Ed Davey stuck the boot in like it was a sub postmaster struggling with Horizon.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,998
    Foxy said:

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions.
    It certainly is a bit feeble, but isn't it up on 2024 (1.0%) and 2023 (0.3%)?
    Well 2024 was going pretty well until Rachel from Accounts got in and torpedoed cosumer confidence.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,379

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    Cutting the cost of living.??? Its nonsense. Just shows how out of touch they are.
    It's not nonsense, real wages are growing and have been throughout this Labour government.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,579

    Foxy said:

    Also it suggests that a leadership change could put Labour back in the race to form the next government.

    Starmer's time is up. Ironic that the thing most likely to bring down the prig is covering up for paedophiles.

    I have not seen Starmer in such a rage at the excellent question by Ed

    He lost it and continued the angry man act throughout PMQs

    It is no wonder his female mps are unimpressed with him
    Interestingly Yesterday In Parliament on R4 despite giving a detailed breakdown of PMQs completely ignored Starmer’s wild swipe at the yet to be tried Peter Murrell. Poor show when the Beeb knows the law better than an ex DPP.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,078
    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,998
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,579
    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Just not paedo gang busting.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,426
    Not currently raining here. I'm sure that will change later.

    Sunshine is promised for Saturday. Just for one day, then more rain.

    At least the reservoirs that were at crisis levels last year are now full to the brim.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,862

    Foxy said:

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions.
    It certainly is a bit feeble, but isn't it up on 2024 (1.0%) and 2023 (0.3%)?
    Well 2024 was going pretty well until Rachel from Accounts got in and torpedoed cosumer confidence.
    The one bright spot was production was up 1.7% but construction has fallen off a cliff.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,862

    Not currently raining here. I'm sure that will change later.

    Sunshine is promised for Saturday. Just for one day, then more rain.

    At least the reservoirs that were at crisis levels last year are now full to the brim.

    Rained all day yesterday here and raining today too.

    No chance of a run for me this morning.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,470
    Not much in it I'd say, but the Conservative Party brand really is in the toilet.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,512
    edited 8:25AM

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    We have very high energy costs.

    It is often overlooked but economies run on energy.
    Germany abolishing nukes after Fukushima (Germany, of course, being famous for earthquakes and tsunamis) was not necessarily a smart move by Comrade Merkel.

    Edited extra bit: ahem, context, Germany energy is still cheaper than ours. But way costlier than it should be. It's not helping their manufacturing/exports much at all.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,379

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    Oddly enough, Foxy's equation stands up. The US deficit is forecast to be about 50% higher than ours in 2026-27, and their economic growth about 50% higher too.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,782

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions. Things like construction are doing badly, construction, that thing the government want to be building a squillon homes.
    1.3% annual growth needs the context of European growth over 2025 as our closest comparators:

    Germany: 0.2%
    France: 0.9%
    Italy: 0.7%

    I agree growth has been weak, but it's not a uniquely UK problem.

    Nor is it worse than previous periods: 1.1% in 2024, 0.3% in 2023, 1.2% average across 2020-2022 (annual figures lumpy given COVID), 1.3% in 2019.

    We need to go back nearly a decade to 2014-2017 when growth was meaningfully higher (averaging over 2.5% pa).
  • MelonBMelonB Posts: 16,748
    Just saw a Waymo driving through Deptford.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,492

    Foxy said:

    Also it suggests that a leadership change could put Labour back in the race to form the next government.

    Starmer's time is up. Ironic that the thing most likely to bring down the prig is covering up for paedophiles.

    I have not seen Starmer in such a rage at the excellent question by Ed

    He lost it and continued the angry man act throughout PMQs

    It is no wonder his female mps are unimpressed with him
    There is a large section of the Labour Party that blame the LD's for being the enablers of austerity. So the attack was on-brand for a Labour leader. It's all pantomime.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,782
    edited 8:30AM

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    The US deficit is estimated at 5.9% of GDP for 2025 versus 4.6% here. So nearly 30% higher.

    There is also a huge private sector debt fueled boom there in the AI space. Remains to be seen how productive those investments are in aggregate.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,579
    Which country does Ratcliffe think we’re being colonised by? Is it by any chance Islamistan?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,118
    Taz said:

    Not currently raining here. I'm sure that will change later.

    Sunshine is promised for Saturday. Just for one day, then more rain.

    At least the reservoirs that were at crisis levels last year are now full to the brim.

    Rained all day yesterday here and raining today too.

    No chance of a run for me this morning.
    Actually not raining here for a change in Midlands - but snow for Sunday!
  • eekeek Posts: 32,564
    Taz said:

    Not currently raining here. I'm sure that will change later.

    Sunshine is promised for Saturday. Just for one day, then more rain.

    At least the reservoirs that were at crisis levels last year are now full to the brim.

    Rained all day yesterday here and raining today too.

    No chance of a run for me this morning.
    I seriously can’t remember the last day without any rain
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,492
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions.
    It certainly is a bit feeble, but isn't it up on 2024 (1.0%) and 2023 (0.3%)?
    Well 2024 was going pretty well until Rachel from Accounts got in and torpedoed cosumer confidence.
    The one bright spot was production was up 1.7% but construction has fallen off a cliff.
    People can't afford the prices they are charging for homes. Prices here on the South Coast are starting to fall which will likely spread, as it usually does, to the north.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,589
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Not currently raining here. I'm sure that will change later.

    Sunshine is promised for Saturday. Just for one day, then more rain.

    At least the reservoirs that were at crisis levels last year are now full to the brim.

    Rained all day yesterday here and raining today too.

    No chance of a run for me this morning.
    I seriously can’t remember the last day without any rain
    Quite sunny in NE London.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,044
    edited 8:35AM
    Foxy said:

    Interesting that Farage also polls worse than his party.

    I see that it is fun & frolics in Leicestershire.

    After Joseph Boam (the 22 year old Andrew Tate enthusiast who used to lead childrens' services) tweeted in solidarity with ICE just after held down Alex Pretti and shot him multiple times, Head Councillor Harrison has asked RefUK to defenestrate him.

    The irony is that Harrison is far worse than Boam on his extremist record.

    (Abbreviated to preserve Taz' blood pressure.)

    https://www.leicester.news/council-leader-urges-reform-uk-to-expel-joseph-boam/
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 133,961
    edited 8:36AM
    Battlebus said:

    Foxy said:

    Also it suggests that a leadership change could put Labour back in the race to form the next government.

    Starmer's time is up. Ironic that the thing most likely to bring down the prig is covering up for paedophiles.

    I have not seen Starmer in such a rage at the excellent question by Ed

    He lost it and continued the angry man act throughout PMQs

    It is no wonder his female mps are unimpressed with him
    There is a large section of the Labour Party that blame the LD's for being the enablers of austerity. So the attack was on-brand for a Labour leader. It's all pantomime.
    Yes by attacking Davey and LDs for being in a pro austerity government with the Tories and Ratcliffe for his Farage backed attacks on immigration yesterday Starmer clearly was trying to squeeze the Greens and get the left back behind Labour
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 55,078

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    The current US deficit is £1.24 trillion, so adjusting for population about £250 billion compared with ours, so nearly twice the stimulus.

    I am very dry economically and would like to see our deficit come down, but the American one is huge.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,379
    edited 8:41AM
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    The current US deficit is £1.24 trillion, so adjusting for population about £250 billion compared with ours, so nearly twice the stimulus.

    I am very dry economically and would like to see our deficit come down, but the American one is huge.
    And if they impose 1% interest rates... eeek.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,294
    Taz said:

    Not currently raining here. I'm sure that will change later.

    Sunshine is promised for Saturday. Just for one day, then more rain.

    At least the reservoirs that were at crisis levels last year are now full to the brim.

    Rained all day yesterday here and raining today too.

    No chance of a run for me this morning.
    Torrential or just wet?
    Just get out there, it rinses the sweat off. Good to get out, the only downsides are it being skaty under foot in places and having to find a route that is mostly above water.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,294
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions.
    It certainly is a bit feeble, but isn't it up on 2024 (1.0%) and 2023 (0.3%)?
    Well 2024 was going pretty well until Rachel from Accounts got in and torpedoed cosumer confidence.
    The one bright spot was production was up 1.7% but construction has fallen off a cliff.
    Probably because it's too wet.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,118
    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    The current US deficit is £1.24 trillion, so adjusting for population about £250 billion compared with ours, so nearly twice the stimulus.

    I am very dry economically and would like to see our deficit come down, but the American one is huge.
    And if they impose 1% interest rates... eeek.
    US business columnist in S Times reckons Kevin Warsh isn't the Dove that Trump thinks he is.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,614
    The figures in the article illustrate very well a principal feature, as things stand, of the coming general election. Only three parties can lead/form the next government and in each case the majority dislike them. No possible government is liked. The most liked and least disliked parties can't form a government.

    How strong the dislike is is going to matter. If I had to guess, most dislike of Tories and Labour is in part atavistic, knee jerk and situational. There they are, and like the weather we don't like them. But we accept them however cheerlessly. And we dislike them more now because recent times have rendered them more useless than usual.

    Is it different with Reform? I will vote for whoever (except Galloway) can beat them. But my feelings about the others, while negative are qualitatively different. I care but not that much. Though I would start to care more if the Tories really lurched to the extreme, as they sometimes threaten.

    So maybe the numbers don't help as much as we think. Its the depth of dislike that counts. It is possible that the G and D by election will be informative about this.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,044
    A very well scripted polite rant summary of the Gordie How bridge Trump Tantrum (3 mins):

    "He is like a 12 year old demanding an apology before he will come down for dinner"

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kgYBjKthuRI
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 70,118
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Not currently raining here. I'm sure that will change later.

    Sunshine is promised for Saturday. Just for one day, then more rain.

    At least the reservoirs that were at crisis levels last year are now full to the brim.

    Rained all day yesterday here and raining today too.

    No chance of a run for me this morning.
    I seriously can’t remember the last day without any rain

    British bread under threat as wheat fields flooded
    Heavy rainfall and fears of poor harvest risks leading to reliance on European imports

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2026/02/12/british-bread-under-threat-wheat-fields-flooded/
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 406
    Ratters said:

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions. Things like construction are doing badly, construction, that thing the government want to be building a squillon homes.
    1.3% annual growth needs the context of European growth over 2025 as our closest comparators:

    Germany: 0.2%
    France: 0.9%
    Italy: 0.7%

    I agree growth has been weak, but it's not a uniquely UK problem.

    Nor is it worse than previous periods: 1.1% in 2024, 0.3% in 2023, 1.2% average across 2020-2022 (annual figures lumpy given COVID), 1.3% in 2019.

    We need to go back nearly a decade to 2014-2017 when growth was meaningfully higher (averaging over 2.5% pa).
    So we should rejoin the EU to reach their levels of growth? Okey!
  • eekeek Posts: 32,564
    algarkirk said:

    The figures in the article illustrate very well a principal feature, as things stand, of the coming general election. Only three parties can lead/form the next government and in each case the majority dislike them. No possible government is liked. The most liked and least disliked parties can't form a government.

    How strong the dislike is is going to matter. If I had to guess, most dislike of Tories and Labour is in part atavistic, knee jerk and situational. There they are, and like the weather we don't like them. But we accept them however cheerlessly. And we dislike them more now because recent times have rendered them more useless than usual.

    Is it different with Reform? I will vote for whoever (except Galloway) can beat them. But my feelings about the others, while negative are qualitatively different. I care but not that much. Though I would start to care more if the Tories really lurched to the extreme, as they sometimes threaten.

    So maybe the numbers don't help as much as we think. Its the depth of dislike that counts. It is possible that the G and D by election will be informative about this.

    Thanks for confirming my theory that for a lot of people their vote is not for their preferred choice but the least worst option that has a chance of winning
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,862

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    We have very high energy costs.

    It is often overlooked but economies run on energy.
    Indeed and a lunatic in charge of the energy portfolio who will make it worse.

    Ed Conway wrote a really interesting book on raw materials and, as part of that, visited factories producing products like Nitrogen and Soda Ash in the U.K. key products we need.

    In the few years since he wrote the book many of these places had closed down. Energy prices being a major problem.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,759
    edited 8:48AM

    BBC:

    "the government said seven councils in England will test out using locations such as train stations or supermarkets for polling booths"

    Presumably Booths supermarkets will be used.

    And it's Railway Station.

    Railwayspotter?
    Railway set?
    Railway shed?
    Railway driver?
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,294
    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I would be a lot more sympathetic to Ratcliffe if he wasn't someone who fucked off to Monaco to avoid tax.

    Yet we still have to listen to his whining. Isn't he an immigrant himself then?
    That's what you get with Labour. The rich fuck off to avoid paying ludicrously high taxes.
    See California for more details, where they proposed a ‘billionaire tax’ on unrealised capital gains, and half of the dozen richest people in the state moved to Florida or Texas. It’s not even passed yet but it’s already causing emigration.
    Yet they’re the selfish ones for not wanting to give their money to the state 🤷‍♂️
    FPT: The underlying theory is that richer people pay quite a lot of tax because their wealth/income is only possible because the state educates their labour, builds the roads and railways their goods move around on, provide healthcare as their staff age, provide a state pension and and so on. This is even more stark in the UK where we have millions of working people on benefits - an effective subsidy to employers.

    There are a number of large corporations and wealthy individuals freeloading on the state in the UK by avoiding taxes. They are acting rationally, but coldly, and I think it’s fair to describe them as selfish as a shorthand for that kind of behaviour. Ensuring they pay their keep is in the interest of us all - particularly small businesses who can't avoid taxes in the same way, and get crowded out, and people like me earning a good wage but paying a 56% marginal rate.
    Ratcliffe fucked off in 2020 under a Boris govt.
    Probably only supported Labour because he wanted the govt to pay for the CCS project that was going to take CO2 from Grangemouth.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,564
    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions.
    It certainly is a bit feeble, but isn't it up on 2024 (1.0%) and 2023 (0.3%)?
    Well 2024 was going pretty well until Rachel from Accounts got in and torpedoed cosumer confidence.
    The one bright spot was production was up 1.7% but construction has fallen off a cliff.
    Probably because it's too wet.
    London has a problem in that you can really only build flats and London flats are currently subject to a house price crash that is hidden from view (prices are about 20% down compared to 2020).
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,862
    edited 8:53AM
    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    Not currently raining here. I'm sure that will change later.

    Sunshine is promised for Saturday. Just for one day, then more rain.

    At least the reservoirs that were at crisis levels last year are now full to the brim.

    Rained all day yesterday here and raining today too.

    No chance of a run for me this morning.
    Torrential or just wet?
    Just get out there, it rinses the sweat off. Good to get out, the only downsides are it being skaty under foot in places and having to find a route that is mostly above water.
    Not torrential, not wet, something in between. If it was light drizzle I’d go for my run. I try to run a couple of miles each morning but have been stuck for 3 days now.

    It’s just relentless at the moment.

    Forecast tomorrow too.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,044
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    The current US deficit is £1.24 trillion, so adjusting for population about £250 billion compared with ours, so nearly twice the stimulus.

    I am very dry economically and would like to see our deficit come down, but the American one is huge.
    Because the USA is richer they carry far more dead wood than Europe can afford to do, and that's leaving aside the "default reserve currency" status that is gradually dissolving.

    It runs right through, from their navy ships with crews half as big again to their higher welfare and health spending achioeving far less with far more.

    Heaven knows how good it would be if they ran it effectively.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,862
    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions.
    It certainly is a bit feeble, but isn't it up on 2024 (1.0%) and 2023 (0.3%)?
    Well 2024 was going pretty well until Rachel from Accounts got in and torpedoed cosumer confidence.
    The one bright spot was production was up 1.7% but construction has fallen off a cliff.
    Probably because it's too wet.
    This is last quarter of last year before it got really wet. We do know construction has been falling for a while too.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,564

    BBC:

    "the government said seven councils in England will test out using locations such as train stations or supermarkets for polling booths"

    Presumably Booths supermarkets will be used.

    And it's Railway Station.


    Booths Windermere is a former railway station - relative to other Booths it’s a strange shop
  • Labour needs a new leader to continue the basic policy programme but sell it better.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,820
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    The current US deficit is £1.24 trillion, so adjusting for population about £250 billion compared with ours, so nearly twice the stimulus.

    I am very dry economically and would like to see our deficit come down, but the American one is huge.
    Because the USA is richer they carry far more dead wood than Europe can afford to do, and that's leaving aside the "default reserve currency" status that is gradually dissolving.

    It runs right through, from their navy ships with crews half as big again to their higher welfare and health spending achioeving far less with far more.

    Heaven knows how good it would be if they ran it effectively.
    Imagine a US President with an agenda to tackle that.

    A post-MAGA Republican President that actually COULD make America great.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,614
    eek said:

    algarkirk said:

    The figures in the article illustrate very well a principal feature, as things stand, of the coming general election. Only three parties can lead/form the next government and in each case the majority dislike them. No possible government is liked. The most liked and least disliked parties can't form a government.

    How strong the dislike is is going to matter. If I had to guess, most dislike of Tories and Labour is in part atavistic, knee jerk and situational. There they are, and like the weather we don't like them. But we accept them however cheerlessly. And we dislike them more now because recent times have rendered them more useless than usual.

    Is it different with Reform? I will vote for whoever (except Galloway) can beat them. But my feelings about the others, while negative are qualitatively different. I care but not that much. Though I would start to care more if the Tories really lurched to the extreme, as they sometimes threaten.

    So maybe the numbers don't help as much as we think. Its the depth of dislike that counts. It is possible that the G and D by election will be informative about this.

    Thanks for confirming my theory that for a lot of people their vote is not for their preferred choice but the least worst option that has a chance of winning
    FWIW that isn't my usual approach. I have consistently voted Tory in GEs for 50 years but not in 2024. Reform however are a different animal. I shall vote for whoever is best placed to beat them. The problem in many seats, including mine, would be Who? Like so many seats it is traditionally Tory (Whitelaw/Rory + changed boundaries to be exact), went Labour last time, now projected Reform.


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,914
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    We have very high energy costs.

    It is often overlooked but economies run on energy.
    Indeed and a lunatic in charge of the energy portfolio who will make it worse.

    Ed Conway wrote a really interesting book on raw materials and, as part of that, visited factories producing products like Nitrogen and Soda Ash in the U.K. key products we need.

    In the few years since he wrote the book many of these places had closed down. Energy prices being a major problem.
    There’s a huge negative correlation between energy prices and economic growth, and that’s before you get to the companies that have shut down or moved production abroad to get away from the cost of energy.

    All of which is made worse when getting prices down is not a priority for the government, in fact quite the opposite is true with Mr Miliband around running one of the most destructive economic policies since WWII - not that the last lot were any better of course.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,614

    Labour needs a new leader to continue the basic policy programme but sell it better.

    More precisely Labour needs a leader who lets us into the secret of what their basic policy programme is first, and then sells it.

    (Areas of unclarity include: debt, deficit, defence, work and benefits, housing both private and social, regional devolution, energy and costs thereof for industry. Lots of others I am sure.)

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 57,820

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    We have very high energy costs.

    It is often overlooked but economies run on energy.
    South Korea's cost of nuclear power is a fifth that of the UK.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,296
    Universal Credit eligibility is not affected by the number of hours you work. And you can't claim UC and housing benefit.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,300
    Morning all.
    Findings scream 'five party system' shocker
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 394
    Very interesting data set

    I think Leader figures are always going to be slanted against the lowest common denominator eg the lowest sets the base trend and the others map accordingly.

    The Party one I think is based on a much longer term structural perception, so fear of the unknown or known reflects a more nuanced view.

    So how do you extrapolate the figures

    Labour can have comfort that the brand is far from shot but the leader is a drag.

    Tories brand is utterly shot but the leader is marginally better on perception.

    LD as always are a bit of a comfort blanket but strong where they are stop.

    Green have a populist leader, God knows why imho but Joe public likes him and as always Reform are pure Marmite.

    Green and Reform though are somewhat dictatorial in the sense on the personality of leaders.

    LD are what they are.

    Labour should have some comfort in there is clearly a way to victory on brand not leader, Tories should have grave concerns about brand and limited impact of leader.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,862
    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions.
    It certainly is a bit feeble, but isn't it up on 2024 (1.0%) and 2023 (0.3%)?
    Well 2024 was going pretty well until Rachel from Accounts got in and torpedoed cosumer confidence.
    The one bright spot was production was up 1.7% but construction has fallen off a cliff.
    Probably because it's too wet.
    London has a problem in that you can really only build flats and London flats are currently subject to a house price crash that is hidden from view (prices are about 20% down compared to 2020).
    It’s more when you consider inflation too, see links below, but then with the service charges why would anyone buy an uncapped liability. Same with a caravan on a holiday park or a McCarthy and Stone old people’s home.

    The recent changes to ground rent are tinkering around the edges.

    These stories seem to be the tip of the iceberg. People need to realise their home is worth what someone will pay for it not what Foxtons tell them.

    https://x.com/mortgagemiken2/status/2019781816375226755?s=61
    https://x.com/alexgroundwater/status/2021620248366264530?s=61
    https://x.com/alexgroundwater/status/2021642630296482261?s=61
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,862
    dixiedean said:

    Universal Credit eligibility is not affected by the number of hours you work. And you can't claim UC and housing benefit.

    Because UC takes over housing costs if eligible.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 32,044
    Is anyone aware of the EU's "Industrial Accelerator Act", and the potential impact on the UK?

    (I am not especially.)

    https://www.etui.org/news/industrial-accelerator-act-upcoming-commission-proposal
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,602

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    Cutting the national debt? Really?!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 49,011
    That doesn't sound right saying Farage is a drag on Reform. He is Reform.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,296
    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Universal Credit eligibility is not affected by the number of hours you work. And you can't claim UC and housing benefit.

    Because UC takes over housing costs if eligible.
    Yes.
    And therefore the number of hours worked doesn't affect eligibility in any way.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 60,683
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    We have very high energy costs.

    It is often overlooked but economies run on energy.
    Indeed and a lunatic in charge of the energy portfolio who will make it worse.

    Ed Conway wrote a really interesting book on raw materials and, as part of that, visited factories producing products like Nitrogen and Soda Ash in the U.K. key products we need.

    In the few years since he wrote the book many of these places had closed down. Energy prices being a major problem.
    The religious belief that high energy prices and the consequent discouraging of energy use are required to reach Net Zero is deeply embedded.

    As we enter a world where ever increasing amounts of ‘leccy are from wind or solar this is ridiculous.

    See the rules on air-con
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,504

    Which country does Ratcliffe think we’re being colonised by? Is it by any chance Islamistan?

    The English immigrant Ratcliffe colonised Scotland and destroyed Grangemouth.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,294
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    As I regularly say when we receive data on tiny changes in a very big number:

    What are the levels of uncertainty on the GDP figures? If +/-1%, then declaring a 0.1% increase is nonsense on stilts.

    The month to month figures are nonsense to place any weight in, the quarterly ones need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but 1.3% annual is piss poor and below OBR and IMF predictions.
    It certainly is a bit feeble, but isn't it up on 2024 (1.0%) and 2023 (0.3%)?
    Well 2024 was going pretty well until Rachel from Accounts got in and torpedoed cosumer confidence.
    The one bright spot was production was up 1.7% but construction has fallen off a cliff.
    Probably because it's too wet.
    London has a problem in that you can really only build flats and London flats are currently subject to a house price crash that is hidden from view (prices are about 20% down compared to 2020).
    It’s more when you consider inflation too, see links below, but then with the service charges why would anyone buy an uncapped liability. Same with a caravan on a holiday park or a McCarthy and Stone old people’s home.

    The recent changes to ground rent are tinkering around the edges.

    These stories seem to be the tip of the iceberg. People need to realise their home is worth what someone will pay for it not what Foxtons tell them.

    https://x.com/mortgagemiken2/status/2019781816375226755?s=61
    https://x.com/alexgroundwater/status/2021620248366264530?s=61
    https://x.com/alexgroundwater/status/2021642630296482261?s=61
    Service charges are for maintenance and other communal costs, the freeholder isn't legally allowed to profit from them.
    I had a leasehold flat with share of freehold, so managed by the residents, myself included eventually for several years until I escaped.
    If competently managed a flat will have lower shared maintenance costs than a similar sized house, my service charge for a 2 bed flat was £1200/annum over 10+ years with a one-off surcharge of £3k for a new roof on the block.

    OAP accommodation are different, high supported living charges etc and caravan parks, from what I've heard, are the wild west ("your caravan has suffered an unfortunate accident, but I've got a good deal on an almost new one")
  • glwglw Posts: 10,740

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    We have very high energy costs.

    It is often overlooked but economies run on energy.
    Indeed and a lunatic in charge of the energy portfolio who will make it worse.

    Ed Conway wrote a really interesting book on raw materials and, as part of that, visited factories producing products like Nitrogen and Soda Ash in the U.K. key products we need.

    In the few years since he wrote the book many of these places had closed down. Energy prices being a major problem.
    The religious belief that high energy prices and the consequent discouraging of energy use are required to reach Net Zero is deeply embedded.

    As we enter a world where ever increasing amounts of ‘leccy are from wind or solar this is ridiculous.

    See the rules on air-con
    It's crazy because very cheap green electricity would likely accelerate industry away from processes that use say gas. So if anything we should encourage more energy use provided it is from renewables. The current pricing mechanism is likely to be slowing the transition not helping it.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,405
    glw said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    We have very high energy costs.

    It is often overlooked but economies run on energy.
    Indeed and a lunatic in charge of the energy portfolio who will make it worse.

    Ed Conway wrote a really interesting book on raw materials and, as part of that, visited factories producing products like Nitrogen and Soda Ash in the U.K. key products we need.

    In the few years since he wrote the book many of these places had closed down. Energy prices being a major problem.
    The religious belief that high energy prices and the consequent discouraging of energy use are required to reach Net Zero is deeply embedded.

    As we enter a world where ever increasing amounts of ‘leccy are from wind or solar this is ridiculous.

    See the rules on air-con
    It's crazy because very cheap green electricity would likely accelerate industry away from processes that use say gas. So if anything we should encourage more energy use provided it is from renewables. The current pricing mechanism is likely to be slowing the transition not helping it.
    Only if you assume the hair-shirtism isn't viewed as a desirable outcome in itself.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 22,141
    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2026/feb/11/paul-dacre-court-daily-mail-sketch

    Off topic, any Cambridge educated (or equally qualified) lawyers have comments on the time-limiting of Dacre's cross-examination?
    Seems he's another editor who had only a passing interest in the origin and substantiation of the new stories published in his papers.

    A nice artice in the Guardian about the testimony -and character- of the loathesome Dacre. For instance........

    "This was the editor whom celebrities and politicians most feared, whose management diatribes were so notoriously foul-mouthed that they were nicknamed “the vagina monologues” on account of the number of times he used the word “cunt”."
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,300
    kinabalu said:

    That doesn't sound right saying Farage is a drag on Reform. He is Reform.

    Farage was the entry drug. Many are hanging about even though the Farage high has psssed
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 59,914
    Ukranian skeleton athlete disqualified by IOC, over helmet commemorating Ukranian athletes killed in the war.
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,862
    dixiedean said:

    Taz said:

    dixiedean said:

    Universal Credit eligibility is not affected by the number of hours you work. And you can't claim UC and housing benefit.

    Because UC takes over housing costs if eligible.
    Yes.
    And therefore the number of hours worked doesn't affect eligibility in any way.
    No, it’s earnings and savings related.

    It’s not a case of evil employers exploiting workers. It is a case of incentives driving behaviour and other in works benefits not part of UC are lost once too much is earned
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,379
    edited 9:42AM

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    No-one dares say that the US is going gangbusters.
    Yep. Massive deficit spending does produce growth in the short term.

    Not sustainable in the long term obviously, indeed a major problem.
    Where's ours?
    We have very high energy costs.

    It is often overlooked but economies run on energy.
    Indeed and a lunatic in charge of the energy portfolio who will make it worse.

    Ed Conway wrote a really interesting book on raw materials and, as part of that, visited factories producing products like Nitrogen and Soda Ash in the U.K. key products we need.

    In the few years since he wrote the book many of these places had closed down. Energy prices being a major problem.
    The religious belief that high energy prices and the consequent discouraging of energy use are required to reach Net Zero is deeply embedded.

    As we enter a world where ever increasing amounts of ‘leccy are from wind or solar this is ridiculous.

    See the rules on air-con
    Where to you get this nonsense? UK electricity generation is going to increase by about 100 TWh over the next 10 years, probably a lot more given what is happening with solar. And that's under the supposed maniac Ed Miliband.

    And frankly reducing energy use to lower prices does make basic economic sense. Part of the reason that massive increase in electricity is not going to drive prices down too much is because of increased demand from EVs, AI etc.
  • Brixian59Brixian59 Posts: 394

    Which country does Ratcliffe think we’re being colonised by? Is it by any chance Islamistan?

    The English immigrant Ratcliffe colonised Scotland and destroyed Grangemouth.
    Given where a lot of PL funding, his supporter base comes from he's clearly not thought it through has he?

    He's one of a number of initially successful businessmen who tend to be egotistical by nature meaning political parties give them leeway in return for backing.

    The likes of Sugar, Branson, Dyson, Martin, spring to mind immediately.

    May be the sanest is Caldwell.

    One very noticeable fact is the response by Labour which would not have happened last week.

    Farage and Davey have responded as you'd expect.

    Silence it seems from the Tories? Although that may just be that the 3 day a week part time leader was tucked up on the sofa and her x feed administrator was out on the piss
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 15,300
    Presumably by lunchtime Jenrick and Suella will have gone full Laurel and Hardy and accidentally taken the wrong position on Ratcliffe before moving on to their next Pratfall
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,614

    In response to this morning's GDP figures, Chancellor Rachel Reeves says the UK the "fastest growing G7 economy in Europe" *. “The Government has the right economic plan to build a stronger and more secure economy, cutting the cost of living, cutting the national debt and creating the conditions for growth and investment in every part of the country.”

    * The specificity kinda of gives the game away.

    Cutting the national debt? Really?!
    Yes. It's what Shakespeare calls 'The lie direct.' As such, if that is what she said, it is noteworthy.

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,239
    Brixian59 said:

    Which country does Ratcliffe think we’re being colonised by? Is it by any chance Islamistan?

    The English immigrant Ratcliffe colonised Scotland and destroyed Grangemouth.
    Given where a lot of PL funding, his supporter base comes from he's clearly not thought it through has he?

    He's one of a number of initially successful businessmen who tend to be egotistical by nature meaning political parties give them leeway in return for backing.

    The likes of Sugar, Branson, Dyson, Martin, spring to mind immediately.

    May be the sanest is Caldwell.

    One very noticeable fact is the response by Labour which would not have happened last week.

    Farage and Davey have responded as you'd expect.

    Silence it seems from the Tories? Although that may just be that the 3 day a week part time leader was tucked up on the sofa and her x feed administrator was out on the piss
    I'm waiting for the arch immigrant Oakshott's contribution...
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