Good header TSE. Yes the Tories are notorious for removing leaders who are badly beaten in local elections and/or trail in polls from Thatcher in 1990 to May in 2019 and Boris in 2022 and Truss after her deeply unpopular budget in late 2022.
Bad by election performances can also see a Tory party leader removed, as IDS discovered after Brent East in 2003.
Labour however are sentimental with their leaders, even Foot and Brown and Ed Miliband left at a time of their choosing. Blair was not really forgiven by some on the left for not being socialist enough and winning multiple general elections anyway and going to war in Iraq but he still was not formally ousted just pressured to handover to the great Brown. The only time Labour MPs turned on a Labour leader was Corbyn but Labour members re elected him anyway in 2016.
So yes it is Kemi who is in the greatest danger. If the Tories are third on NEV and seats won in May Tory MPs won't hesitate to VONC Kemi and replace her with Kemi. Starmer though is more likely to be able to go at a time of his choosing, even if Labour were third in May it is not certain Rayner could get the 81 Labour MPs she needs to nominate her to challenge him
You keep spouting this, without telling us who is going to perform better than Kemi. (And not Cleverly - he wants a shot at London mayoral.)
Who are the Tories hiding away for some great unveiling? Dear God, I wish they were. It would give Leon someone to focus on beyond his Farage-frotting.
It will be Cleverly who can hold 2024 Tory voters better than Kemi has and win swing voters from Labour more than Kemi has and get anti Reform tactical votes in Tory held seats better than Kemi has. He isn't going to win London Mayor and anyway CCHQ are already now lining up Seb Coe for that.
Cleverly has shown no interest in defenestrating Kemi.
He doesn't need to, under Tory rules if a Tory leader loses a VONC they are removed automatically, no need for any leadership challenger unlike Labour
They are not going to VONC Kemi and have no idea who might replace her.
The Tories are not South Park:
"Oh my God, they killed Kemi. The bastards!"
If the Tories are third in May the 2/3 of Tory MPs who did not vote for Kemi in 2024 will vote of no confidence her
So, they are going to blast away at their feet with high-calibre weaponry? Because what the Tories REALLY need is an extended period of instability. It having worked so well for them for the past 5 years.
Well, it's a view...
If the Tories are THIRD or worse in a second consecutive national election then they are headed for extinction while we keep FPTP, even Kemi would know she is done if that happens
Has hyufd defected to Reform?
No and I never would. If the Tories ceased to exist I would not join any party, I would likely be a swing voter between Reform and the LDs
I think you are a blue LD at heart - like Rory. And, like Rory, can't bring yourself to admit it. Go on. There's no shame in it.
Labour are f*****. First Mandelson then then Labour Trade Envoy Andrew Windsor.
SKS made Andrew a trade envoy, don’t remember that happening
And anything before 2024 is old news and part of the mission since 1990 to give Prince Andrew a purpose in life. At least Henry knew what the long term looked like and buggered off to the States at the first opportunity
Older people can remember when things were better. 20-30 years ago. When the land was calmer and happier. Before the epic levels of migration
Much of Western Europe has been economically stagnant for two decades while importing millions of people from alien cultures in a disastrous experiment gone horribly wrong
Older people are old enough to recall the days before the experiment.
Big Nige knows exactly how to massage an enlarged boomer prostate with a nicotine stained finger.
NEW: Keir Starmer vows to go on and makes clear he’s not resigning
Addressing No10 staff, the Prime Minister said they were united by a “driving purpose” of “public duty”.
Referring to the revelations about Mandelson, he said: “The thing that makes me most angry is the undermining of the belief that politics can be a force for good and can change lives.
“I have been absolutely clear that I regret the decision that I made to appoint Peter Mandelson. And I've apologised to the victims which is the right thing to do.”
If it was in German we would say it was part of the script from Downfall.
It's hard to see how Starmer survives resignation of both his chief of staff and his director of comms within 24 hours of each other... feels like a No 10 operation in crisis and that this could be over quite quickly now.
I'm at a complete loss here. All the chatter is about how Starmer's resignation/eviction is imminent yet it just doesn't feel like it. Have the public even noticed? Feels like a Westminster bubble (and include the politics obsessed weirdos of PB in that bubble). Am I totally wrong?
The public get no say anyway until 2029, the average member of the public is probably talking about last night's Love Island or the Superbowl. It is of course a bubble issue and anyway Starmer is clearly not resigning, he has just sacked half his team and is bringing in some new aides
The public have a big say in 3 weeks and in Scotland and Wales plus locals in May
Not for any MPs, though yes if Labour come third it is SKS at risk, if the Tories are third it is Kemi facing a threat
If I were a Tory I would be agreeing with you. Badenoch is very poor despite the ramping* she gets on here.
I am assuming Starmer is done by Wednesday and Badenoch is already claiming she is responsible for the scalp. Surely with Starmer's defenestration she has bought herself more time.
* Ooh Mrs!
She must finish above Labour in the NEV and hit a minimum of 20 %
He was heckled for the second time in public and it hardly matters who is heckling - it is the impression it leaves
This crisis will not go away for the royal family
He was heckled by a member of Republic, videoed by Republic, in an organised stunt by Republic.
Please do not post or mention Republic propoganda on here and try and present it as by an ordinary member of the public
I will post whatever I like on here and on this, it was filmed live by Sky and commented on by their reporter
You will not post misleading posts please otherwise I will raise it with the Moderators, it was a Republic stunt and you presented it as an ordinary member of the public doing it.
I will say the same to any journalist on X who similarly falls for Republic propoganda as you did
Thing is, Sky News need a cavalcade of 'events' (in the 'dear boy' sense of the word). They can't do the legendary 'there is no news today, so here is some music' thing. So they run stuff like this. Non-stop.
Please don't take this the wrong way, BigG, but Sky News is rotting your perception of the world. I don't know what the weather is like in North Wales, but in North East London, it's a reasonably nice late winter/very early spring day.
Nice day here as well but not sure about your attack on the integrity of Sky news
I think ALL the 24 h news streams have the same issue, whether its TV or radio, BBC or Sky. Its why we have so many talking heads spouting nonsense. I'm firmly of the opinion that the old days of news at 6 and 10 and nothing more were the best.
Indeed. All these journalists have to earn their corn and ain’t nothing like a crisis (or multiple crises) to fill those feeds.
On Starmer leaving, I am very much of the view of the header and some of the other commentators absent something else I do not see Starmer going because of this. As was mentioned he’s not going to want to leave with Epstein as the decisive issue - there may well be a decisive issue later this year (the elections, events, etc). So I expect he’s going to settle in his bunker and hope to see it out.
But clearly the journalists are closer to the action. So absent their incentives to create drama and any personal distaste for Starmer (to be honest one of the conspiracies I believe in is that he’ll never get a fair hearing in the press because when DPP he put Journos in jail) is there anything in it to say 50/50 leaving? I am sceptical but what I am missing?
I doubt there has been a more depressing time since WW2
We have a government in crisis led by a leader who has no future though may hang on just continuing the daily pyscho drama
We await enormous volumns of e mails and whats app messages during Mandelson's time as ambassador with unknown consquences for other labour mps and advisors and unrest with politics by the public
The real danger is the public voting for Reform or the Greens in a mass protest vote and electing extreme right or left mps wholly unsuitable for public office
More Epstein files will be realeased as we watch each breaking news fearing what next
Indeed we could see untold problems with Trump over revelations in our dealing through Mandelson
I would suggest labour need to lance the boil now and demand Starmer resigns and install a temporary leader to stabiise the party with either John Healey or Hilary Benn being a good call
Goodness knows how the bond markets will react and letting things drift is not an option
I had hopes that Starmer would do as he said before the election to promote integrity and accountability into our politics but here we are just over 18 months later with the most unpopular PM in recent hiistory
This is not about point scoring but a deep desire for labour to steady the ship for all our sakes as anything else is unthinkable
May wise minds in labour led by many of the women who are so aggrieved prevail
Good grief Big_G is your memory ok?
What about: - Rationing persisting on into the 1950s - Suez Crisis 1956 - Three-day week & power cuts 1974 - IMF bail out 1976 - Winter of Discontent 1979 - Covid crisis 2020
To name but a few?
Reflects the polling though, with older people spiralling into a deep and irrational melancholy. Lots of free time + social media is a not a good combination.
You can critise me as much as you like and disagree with whether this is the worst crisis since WW2 but what is the problem with my suggestion on how to address it ?
According to Sky journalist this morning some want Starmer to continue to May and take responsibilty for the likely polling disaster but other mps are saying they cannot allow Mandelson and Epstein to continue and need to take action
I have no problem with people disagreing but suggesting older people spiral into deep and irrational melancholy is pure 'ageism'
No, it's not. There has been a dramatic divergence in sentiment, and this is going to cause us massive issues because so much of the country's disposable income is now held by older people:
That is nothing to do with your ageism comment
Disagree by all means but do not descend into ageism
It's not ageism to point to a real difference between age groups. The data is there.
Why are older people much more negative now? Is it simply a partisan thing, where they're unhappy with a Labour government? Is it the media they're consuming?
There's genuinely something going on.
I have a sad answer
Older people can remember when things were better. 20-30 years ago. When the land was calmer and happier. Before the epic levels of migration
Much of Western Europe has been economically stagnant for two decades while importing millions of people from alien cultures in a disastrous experiment gone horribly wrong
Older people are old enough to recall the days before the experiment.
The biggest amount of non European immigration to the UK actually came under the Attlee government. The Blair government was mainly Eastern European immigration which Brexit and the Boris wave reversed to non European immigration again until Sunak and Cleverly tightened the rules
This is the most ludicrous nonsense. You surely realise this
I know you are eccentric and live in HYUFD-world but surely even there facts are facts. And what you have just said is factually and totally wrong
It was the British Nationality Act 1948 more than any other Act that set the immigration changes of the last century
This is the problem that Enoch Powell referred to in almost every interview he gave on immigration, that until recently there had been no way of distinguishing members of the Commonwealth from British people living in Britain as far as right to live in Britain was concerned. When travel to Britain en masse was nigh on impossible, there was no problem with immigration, but once air travel became commonplace, that meant tens of millions of people were entitled to come and live here, and what was once a hypothetical possibility became reality. That was why he suggested paying immigrants to return to their place of birth, he saw it as the only way of rectifying an oversight that changed the country in a way no one had thought of.
The 1962 Act tightened the rules to require work permits but yes Powell thought even that too loose
The same Enoch Powell who went round the Caribbean encouraging people to come and work in the UK...
He did, on short term permits though I think
When Powell was health secretary recruiting Jamaican nurses in the early 1960s they had automatic right of entry so wouldn't have needed work permits. They were British citizens for most of his tenure in the job. Just another opportunist politician treating black workers as expendable and taking white voters for for fools. Utterly vile man.
The Rest is History did a podcast on Powell recently. I think he is a complex character. I'm not convinced he is the utterly vile man you believe (and the way he is portrayed).
Labour are f*****. First Mandelson then then Labour Trade Envoy Andrew Windsor.
SKS made Andrew a trade envoy, don’t remember that happening
And anything before 2024 is old news and part of the mission since 1990 to give Prince Andrew a purpose in life. At least Henry knew what the long term looked like and buggered off to the States at the first opportunity
It was during the coalition Government, but best to say he was a Labour appointment under the circumstances.
NEW: Keir Starmer vows to go on and makes clear he’s not resigning
Addressing No10 staff, the Prime Minister said they were united by a “driving purpose” of “public duty”.
Referring to the revelations about Mandelson, he said: “The thing that makes me most angry is the undermining of the belief that politics can be a force for good and can change lives.
“I have been absolutely clear that I regret the decision that I made to appoint Peter Mandelson. And I've apologised to the victims which is the right thing to do.”
If it was in German we would say it was part of the script from Downfall.
Steiner...
Scott or Rick ?
Some people are convinced that there is something fishier to come out of all this.
“Delivered across Northern city-regions, a Games could act as a catalyst for long-term investment in transport, skills, housing, grassroots sport and cultural infrastructure – like the successful regeneration of Liverpool Docks to create the Hill Dickinson Stadium – leaving a legacy that reaches far beyond the closing ceremony.”
He may of worked for Blair but then he sold his soul to the devil.
If Labour are cute they could look left to someone like Mason or too the main stream news media. A communicator of the highest order.
Pippa Crerar
Buzz Lightyear has left the Starmer Government?
Well, he did do time for coke dealing, and got a good deal for informing on his supply chain. Why he didn't have to go into witness protection I don't know.
Labour are f*****. First Mandelson then then Labour Trade Envoy Andrew Windsor.
Mandelson and AMW in the same dock on the same charges would be utterly sensational
And Starmer?
Personally I hope both Starmer and Reeves stay. They are both useless (they get the issues but cannot deliver on solving them) but they are so much better than any of the alternatives.
I doubt there has been a more depressing time since WW2
We have a government in crisis led by a leader who has no future though may hang on just continuing the daily pyscho drama
We await enormous volumns of e mails and whats app messages during Mandelson's time as ambassador with unknown consquences for other labour mps and advisors and unrest with politics by the public
The real danger is the public voting for Reform or the Greens in a mass protest vote and electing extreme right or left mps wholly unsuitable for public office
More Epstein files will be realeased as we watch each breaking news fearing what next
Indeed we could see untold problems with Trump over revelations in our dealing through Mandelson
I would suggest labour need to lance the boil now and demand Starmer resigns and install a temporary leader to stabiise the party with either John Healey or Hilary Benn being a good call
Goodness knows how the bond markets will react and letting things drift is not an option
I had hopes that Starmer would do as he said before the election to promote integrity and accountability into our politics but here we are just over 18 months later with the most unpopular PM in recent hiistory
This is not about point scoring but a deep desire for labour to steady the ship for all our sakes as anything else is unthinkable
May wise minds in labour led by many of the women who are so aggrieved prevail
Good grief Big_G is your memory ok?
What about: - Rationing persisting on into the 1950s - Suez Crisis 1956 - Three-day week & power cuts 1974 - IMF bail out 1976 - Winter of Discontent 1979 - Covid crisis 2020
To name but a few?
Reflects the polling though, with older people spiralling into a deep and irrational melancholy. Lots of free time + social media is a not a good combination.
You can critise me as much as you like and disagree with whether this is the worst crisis since WW2 but what is the problem with my suggestion on how to address it ?
According to Sky journalist this morning some want Starmer to continue to May and take responsibilty for the likely polling disaster but other mps are saying they cannot allow Mandelson and Epstein to continue and need to take action
I have no problem with people disagreing but suggesting older people spiral into deep and irrational melancholy is pure 'ageism'
No, it's not. There has been a dramatic divergence in sentiment, and this is going to cause us massive issues because so much of the country's disposable income is now held by older people:
That is nothing to do with your ageism comment
Disagree by all means but do not descend into ageism
It's not ageism to point to a real difference between age groups. The data is there.
Why are older people much more negative now? Is it simply a partisan thing, where they're unhappy with a Labour government? Is it the media they're consuming?
There's genuinely something going on.
I have a sad answer
Older people can remember when things were better. 20-30 years ago. When the land was calmer and happier. Before the epic levels of migration
Much of Western Europe has been economically stagnant for two decades while importing millions of people from alien cultures in a disastrous experiment gone horribly wrong
Older people are old enough to recall the days before the experiment.
The biggest amount of non European immigration to the UK actually came under the Attlee government. The Blair government was mainly Eastern European immigration which Brexit and the Boris wave reversed to non European immigration again until Sunak and Cleverly tightened the rules
This is the most ludicrous nonsense. You surely realise this
I know you are eccentric and live in HYUFD-world but surely even there facts are facts. And what you have just said is factually and totally wrong
It was the British Nationality Act 1948 more than any other Act that set the immigration changes of the last century
This is the problem that Enoch Powell referred to in almost every interview he gave on immigration, that until recently there had been no way of distinguishing members of the Commonwealth from British people living in Britain as far as right to live in Britain was concerned. When travel to Britain en masse was nigh on impossible, there was no problem with immigration, but once air travel became commonplace, that meant tens of millions of people were entitled to come and live here, and what was once a hypothetical possibility became reality. That was why he suggested paying immigrants to return to their place of birth, he saw it as the only way of rectifying an oversight that changed the country in a way no one had thought of.
The 1962 Act tightened the rules to require work permits but yes Powell thought even that too loose
The same Enoch Powell who went round the Caribbean encouraging people to come and work in the UK...
He did, on short term permits though I think
When Powell was health secretary recruiting Jamaican nurses in the early 1960s they had automatic right of entry so wouldn't have needed work permits. They were British citizens for most of his tenure in the job. Just another opportunist politician treating black workers as expendable and taking white voters for for fools. Utterly vile man.
The Rest is History did a podcast on Powell recently. I think he is a complex character. I'm not convinced he is the utterly vile man you believe (and the way he is portrayed).
Origin story have done one as well which is very good, they publish all their references.
NEW: Keir Starmer vows to go on and makes clear he’s not resigning
Addressing No10 staff, the Prime Minister said they were united by a “driving purpose” of “public duty”.
Referring to the revelations about Mandelson, he said: “The thing that makes me most angry is the undermining of the belief that politics can be a force for good and can change lives.
“I have been absolutely clear that I regret the decision that I made to appoint Peter Mandelson. And I've apologised to the victims which is the right thing to do.”
Explicitly saying that what you have done is "the right thing to do" really grates on me. It's for others to judge whether you have done the right thing or not.
Yes, like sand between the teeth. It's very Brownian.
Sarwar is more weather vane than signpost, which makes me wonder what he’s maybe hearing behind the scenes about further resignations/turmoil for the PM in the coming hours and days that makes him feel confident to stick his neck out now.
It's hard to see how Starmer survives resignation of both his chief of staff and his director of comms within 24 hours of each other... feels like a No 10 operation in crisis and that this could be over quite quickly now.
I'm at a complete loss here. All the chatter is about how Starmer's resignation/eviction is imminent yet it just doesn't feel like it. Have the public even noticed? Feels like a Westminster bubble (and include the politics obsessed weirdos of PB in that bubble). Am I totally wrong?
The public get no say anyway until 2029, the average member of the public is probably talking about last night's Love Island or the Superbowl. It is of course a bubble issue and anyway Starmer is clearly not resigning, he has just sacked half his team and is bringing in some new aides
Because nothing says he's not resigning like sacking half his team, and this has always worked out so well in the past.
As far as I can see, the only force retaining him in office is the desire various of Labour MP to ensure his replacement is the one they want, rather than one of the possibilities they really don't want. That only requires one faction to decide they'll probably win out and it's goodnight Vienna for our Keir.
Betfair market rules on SKS replacement... Am I correct in understanding that the markets will only be settled when SKS is replaced? Even if the date of replacement has passed? For example 1st April 26 market will be settled on 1st April if he is replaced but not if he isn't?
The problem in Betfair's rules is they will void the market if Starmer dies. This makes it hard to settle any of the earlier time periods in case they need to reclaim money from earlier time periods (reclaim winnings from layers and refund stakes to backers). Normal bookmakers would stand the loss themselves but not Betfair.
So with that in mind, who knows wtf Betfair will do?
They might get it! Almost nowhere wants to host Olympics any more, and these regional bids have been doing well, as with the current Milano-Cortina Winter Olympics.
If Starmer resigns it's a huge oppportunity for Kemi to move ahead and become the best choice for centrist voters.
In the normal run of things, a mid term defenstration turns the new PM effectively into the LOTO to the old LOTO/now Govt in waiting but with the Tory malaise and Reform its a bit messy!
@Steven_Swinford There is a clear disconnect between what's emanating from No 10 this morning and the reality where the Cabinet and the wider Labour Party are today
The prime minister's official spokesman said that Starmer was 'upbeat' and 'confident' in a speech to staff this morning, adding that he is positive and determined. They said he isn't resigning
All the while:
* Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, is poised to directly call for Sir Keir Starmer to go. He's said to be furious about Mandelson and wider events in Westminster
* Cabinet ministers are having discussions about what to do if he stands down. They suggest he is in a dark place and are worried he could go. They are asking who should be interim PM
* Notably NO cabinet ministers have come out to defend the PM in the last 24 hours
* We've now had two big No 10 resignations in 24 hours - Morgan McSweeney and Tim Allan. The PM is losing his most senior allies
* We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the Mandelson files and their implications not just for Starmer but for Labour more broadly
They might get it! Almost nowhere wants to host Olympics any more, and these regional bids have been doing well, as with the current Milano-Cortina Winter Olympics.
And, if not, they’ll still be a good number of funded jolly's for the committee to take. It’s a win for them either way!
@Steven_Swinford There is a clear disconnect between what's emanating from No 10 this morning and the reality where the Cabinet and the wider Labour Party are today
The prime minister's official spokesman said that Starmer was 'upbeat' and 'confident' in a speech to staff this morning, adding that he is positive and determined. They said he isn't resigning
All the while:
* Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, is poised to directly call for Sir Keir Starmer to go. He's said to be furious about Mandelson and wider events in Westminster
* Cabinet ministers are having discussions about what to do if he stands down. They suggest he is in a dark place and are worried he could go. They are asking who should be interim PM
* Notably NO cabinet ministers have come out to defend the PM in the last 24 hours
* We've now had two big No 10 resignations in 24 hours - Morgan McSweeney and Tim Allan. The PM is losing his most senior allies
* We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the Mandelson files and their implications not just for Starmer but for Labour more broadly
There is, of course, no such thing as an interim PM. The PM is PM.
I doubt there has been a more depressing time since WW2
We have a government in crisis led by a leader who has no future though may hang on just continuing the daily pyscho drama
We await enormous volumns of e mails and whats app messages during Mandelson's time as ambassador with unknown consquences for other labour mps and advisors and unrest with politics by the public
The real danger is the public voting for Reform or the Greens in a mass protest vote and electing extreme right or left mps wholly unsuitable for public office
More Epstein files will be realeased as we watch each breaking news fearing what next
Indeed we could see untold problems with Trump over revelations in our dealing through Mandelson
I would suggest labour need to lance the boil now and demand Starmer resigns and install a temporary leader to stabiise the party with either John Healey or Hilary Benn being a good call
Goodness knows how the bond markets will react and letting things drift is not an option
I had hopes that Starmer would do as he said before the election to promote integrity and accountability into our politics but here we are just over 18 months later with the most unpopular PM in recent hiistory
This is not about point scoring but a deep desire for labour to steady the ship for all our sakes as anything else is unthinkable
May wise minds in labour led by many of the women who are so aggrieved prevail
Good grief Big_G is your memory ok?
What about: - Rationing persisting on into the 1950s - Suez Crisis 1956 - Three-day week & power cuts 1974 - IMF bail out 1976 - Winter of Discontent 1979 - Covid crisis 2020
To name but a few?
Reflects the polling though, with older people spiralling into a deep and irrational melancholy. Lots of free time + social media is a not a good combination.
You can critise me as much as you like and disagree with whether this is the worst crisis since WW2 but what is the problem with my suggestion on how to address it ?
According to Sky journalist this morning some want Starmer to continue to May and take responsibilty for the likely polling disaster but other mps are saying they cannot allow Mandelson and Epstein to continue and need to take action
I have no problem with people disagreing but suggesting older people spiral into deep and irrational melancholy is pure 'ageism'
No, it's not. There has been a dramatic divergence in sentiment, and this is going to cause us massive issues because so much of the country's disposable income is now held by older people:
That is nothing to do with your ageism comment
Disagree by all means but do not descend into ageism
It's not ageism to point to a real difference between age groups. The data is there.
Why are older people much more negative now? Is it simply a partisan thing, where they're unhappy with a Labour government? Is it the media they're consuming?
There's genuinely something going on.
I have a sad answer
Older people can remember when things were better. 20-30 years ago. When the land was calmer and happier. Before the epic levels of migration
Much of Western Europe has been economically stagnant for two decades while importing millions of people from alien cultures in a disastrous experiment gone horribly wrong
Older people are old enough to recall the days before the experiment.
The biggest amount of non European immigration to the UK actually came under the Attlee government. The Blair government was mainly Eastern European immigration which Brexit and the Boris wave reversed to non European immigration again until Sunak and Cleverly tightened the rules
This is the most ludicrous nonsense. You surely realise this
I know you are eccentric and live in HYUFD-world but surely even there facts are facts. And what you have just said is factually and totally wrong
It was the British Nationality Act 1948 more than any other Act that set the immigration changes of the last century
This is the problem that Enoch Powell referred to in almost every interview he gave on immigration, that until recently there had been no way of distinguishing members of the Commonwealth from British people living in Britain as far as right to live in Britain was concerned. When travel to Britain en masse was nigh on impossible, there was no problem with immigration, but once air travel became commonplace, that meant tens of millions of people were entitled to come and live here, and what was once a hypothetical possibility became reality. That was why he suggested paying immigrants to return to their place of birth, he saw it as the only way of rectifying an oversight that changed the country in a way no one had thought of.
The 1962 Act tightened the rules to require work permits but yes Powell thought even that too loose
The same Enoch Powell who went round the Caribbean encouraging people to come and work in the UK...
He did, on short term permits though I think
When Powell was health secretary recruiting Jamaican nurses in the early 1960s they had automatic right of entry so wouldn't have needed work permits. They were British citizens for most of his tenure in the job. Just another opportunist politician treating black workers as expendable and taking white voters for for fools. Utterly vile man.
Oh sorry, it must have been a later interview I saw with him when he suggested immigration on short term visas was fine
Starmer should just bring in Peter Capaldi to play Malcolm Tucker. Just have him shouting abuse around Number 10. Capldi was good at improvising some of the lines.
It would be a strange mix of humour and terror for the staff.
Tim Shipman: One way of replacing McSweeney would be to bring in Jonathan Powell as chief of staff, the role he performed for Tony Blair, but my understanding is he’s happier running foreign affairs.
Because that’s going really well…
Indeed
BEST trade deal with US on the planet Better deals with EU Opened dialogue with China Key role on Ukraine
@Steven_Swinford There is a clear disconnect between what's emanating from No 10 this morning and the reality where the Cabinet and the wider Labour Party are today
The prime minister's official spokesman said that Starmer was 'upbeat' and 'confident' in a speech to staff this morning, adding that he is positive and determined. They said he isn't resigning
All the while:
* Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, is poised to directly call for Sir Keir Starmer to go. He's said to be furious about Mandelson and wider events in Westminster
* Cabinet ministers are having discussions about what to do if he stands down. They suggest he is in a dark place and are worried he could go. They are asking who should be interim PM
* Notably NO cabinet ministers have come out to defend the PM in the last 24 hours
* We've now had two big No 10 resignations in 24 hours - Morgan McSweeney and Tim Allan. The PM is losing his most senior allies
* We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the Mandelson files and their implications not just for Starmer but for Labour more broadly
I rate Swinford but like a lot of political journos caught up in the 24 hour rolling news cycle I suspect he is justifying his wage.
Epstein has barely harmed Trump and he is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the bible.
Good header TSE. Yes the Tories are notorious for removing leaders who are badly beaten in local elections and/or trail in polls from Thatcher in 1990 to May in 2019 and Boris in 2022 and Truss after her deeply unpopular budget in late 2022.
Bad by election performances can also see a Tory party leader removed, as IDS discovered after Brent East in 2003.
Labour however are sentimental with their leaders, even Foot and Brown and Ed Miliband left at a time of their choosing. Blair was not really forgiven by some on the left for not being socialist enough and winning multiple general elections anyway and going to war in Iraq but he still was not formally ousted just pressured to handover to the great Brown. The only time Labour MPs turned on a Labour leader was Corbyn but Labour members re elected him anyway in 2016.
So yes it is Kemi who is in the greatest danger. If the Tories are third on NEV and seats won in May Tory MPs won't hesitate to VONC Kemi and replace her with Kemi. Starmer though is more likely to be able to go at a time of his choosing, even if Labour were third in May it is not certain Rayner could get the 81 Labour MPs she needs to nominate her to challenge him
You keep spouting this, without telling us who is going to perform better than Kemi. (And not Cleverly - he wants a shot at London mayoral.)
Who are the Tories hiding away for some great unveiling? Dear God, I wish they were. It would give Leon someone to focus on beyond his Farage-frotting.
It will be Cleverly who can hold 2024 Tory voters better than Kemi has and win swing voters from Labour more than Kemi has and get anti Reform tactical votes in Tory held seats better than Kemi has. He isn't going to win London Mayor and anyway CCHQ are already now lining up Seb Coe for that.
Cleverly has shown no interest in defenestrating Kemi.
He doesn't need to, under Tory rules if a Tory leader loses a VONC they are removed automatically, no need for any leadership challenger unlike Labour
They are not going to VONC Kemi and have no idea who might replace her.
The Tories are not South Park:
"Oh my God, they killed Kemi. The bastards!"
If the Tories are third in May the 2/3 of Tory MPs who did not vote for Kemi in 2024 will vote of no confidence her
So, they are going to blast away at their feet with high-calibre weaponry? Because what the Tories REALLY need is an extended period of instability. It having worked so well for them for the past 5 years.
Well, it's a view...
If the Tories are THIRD or worse in a second consecutive national election then they are headed for extinction while we keep FPTP, even Kemi would know she is done if that happens
Has hyufd defected to Reform?
No and I never would. If the Tories ceased to exist I would not join any party, I would likely be a swing voter between Reform and the LDs
I think you are a blue LD at heart - like Rory. And, like Rory, can't bring yourself to admit it. Go on. There's no shame in it.
The direct of communications who’s been utterly useless since he came in is now an apparent huge loss for No 10 !
Yes, you're missing a lot.
Starmer, the most unpopular PM in modern times, had zero credibility or political capital left before the Mandelson crisis. The Mandy crisis is shaping up to be the biggest political crisis since Profumo - and probably before that, so since Suez.
His aides are leaving before he is ousted, and his cabinet doesn't seem keen to back him.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I half wonder if the delay is simply negotiations. Discussions about whether he goes immediately and needs to nominate a PM to the Queen, or resigns as leader, stays as PM whilst a replacement is found.
I'm not sure he can do the latter, given the scale of the crisis and the weakness his position.
Probably the only way we ever see David Lammy as PM
The direct of communications who’s been utterly useless since he came in is now an apparent huge loss for No 10 !
Yes, you're missing a lot.
Starmer, the most unpopular PM in modern times, had zero credibility or political capital left before the Mandelson crisis. The Mandy crisis is shaping up to be the biggest political crisis since Profumo - and probably before that, so since Suez.
His aides are leaving before he is ousted, and his cabinet doesn't seem keen to back him.
If he lasts till midweek, I'd be surprised.
Kemi should ask him at PMQs if he has confidence in himself; if he says yes, he’ll be gone by Sunday, like Ange, Mandy and MMc were after he’d given them the VoC
OK, so Anus has been pushed to go over the top be the first "senior" person to call for Keith to quit.
Which strongly suggests there's a number of actually senior people wanting to follow but needing a sacrificial fool to say it first.
This is the beginning of the end.
The BBC have reports on their live feed at 13.10 saying that Sarwar is going to say he has to go and at 13.29 that Mandelson should never have been Ambassador but that Starmer should stay. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c74wd01egvyt
Sarwar used to be indecisive but he's not nearly as sure these days.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I think Miiband, but they might have a temporary go with Rayner and try to spark a T.R.U.S,S style economic crisis as well as a political crisis, just for shits and giggles....
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I think Miiband, but they might have a temporary go with Rayner and try to spark a T.R.U.S,S style economic crisis as well as a political crisis, just for shits and giggles....
Good grief not Ed Miliband . He failed once and would be a gift to the opposition.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
The tax affair probably doesn't prevent her from become leader.
You couldn’t risk that because she’s already struggling to repair the damage from last year . Labour can’t have a new leader who could possibly then get a penalty from the HMRC .
A penalty from HMRC is not a criminal record. Johnson and Sunak both paid fines for criminal breaches -- Sunak twice. Yet they were Primes Ministers.
OK, so Anus has been pushed to go over the top be the first "senior" person to call for Keith to quit.
Which strongly suggests there's a number of actually senior people wanting to follow but needing a sacrificial fool to say it first.
This is the beginning of the end.
The BBC have reports on their live feed at 13.10 saying that Sarwar is going to say he has to go and at 13.29 that Mandelson should never have been Ambassador but that Starmer should stay. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c74wd01egvyt
Sarwar used to be indecisive but he's not nearly as sure these days.
The bit about Starmer must stay was from last week. So the expectation is still that Sarwar will call for Starmer to step down
He may of worked for Blair but then he sold his soul to the devil.
If Labour are cute they could look left to someone like Mason or too the main stream news media. A communicator of the highest order.
Pippa Crerar
If Starmer survives Pippa Crerar is a good shout.
This might be an opportunity for a reset.
Roger, don't waver! He's useless, he has to go. It's not really just about Mandelson. It's an opportunity to show a bitterly disappointing Prime Minister the door.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
I half wonder if the delay is simply negotiations. Discussions about whether he goes immediately and needs to nominate a PM to the Queen, or resigns as leader, stays as PM whilst a replacement is found.
I'm not sure he can do the latter, given the scale of the crisis and the weakness his position.
Probably the only way we ever see David Lammy as PM
If he goes, I very much expect the deal will be that he stays as PM while a replacement is found. That happened with May and Johnson. I can't see Starmer's position is worse than theirs.
Comments
https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/the-great-north-shoots-its-olympics-shot/
And, like Rory, can't bring yourself to admit it.
Go on. There's no shame in it.
Just another dreadful day for the royals
Otherwise she is toast
On Starmer leaving, I am very much of the view of the header and some of the other commentators absent something else I do not see Starmer going because of this. As was mentioned he’s not going to want to leave with Epstein as the decisive issue - there may well be a decisive issue later this year (the elections, events, etc). So I expect he’s going to settle in his bunker and hope to see it out.
But clearly the journalists are closer to the action. So absent their incentives to create drama and any personal distaste for Starmer (to be honest one of the conspiracies I believe in is that he’ll never get a fair hearing in the press because when DPP he put Journos in jail) is there anything in it to say 50/50 leaving? I am sceptical but what I am missing?
In the dark ages.
Certainly needs a new broom.
“Delivered across Northern city-regions, a Games could act as a catalyst for long-term investment in transport, skills, housing, grassroots sport and cultural infrastructure – like the successful regeneration of Liverpool Docks to create the Hill Dickinson Stadium – leaving a legacy that reaches far beyond the closing ceremony.”
Like losing world heritage status?
Keir's father would have been a fan of Tool Time.
AMW is not Starmer's responsibility but a huge problem for the royal family
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce3g8e7n07jo
Will he pledge support for Starmer ?
He will call for Starmer to resign
@Geri_E_L_Scott
NEW: I'm told Anas Sarwar is expected to directly call for Keir Starmer to quit in this press conference."
https://x.com/Geri_E_L_Scott/status/2020847148263240111
This is from the assistant political editor at The Times.
Sarwar is more weather vane than signpost, which makes me wonder what he’s maybe hearing behind the scenes about further resignations/turmoil for the PM in the coming hours and days that makes him feel confident to stick his neck out now.
As far as I can see, the only force retaining him in office is the desire various of Labour MP to ensure his replacement is the one they want, rather than one of the possibilities they really don't want. That only requires one faction to decide they'll probably win out and it's goodnight Vienna for our Keir.
So with that in mind, who knows wtf Betfair will do?
Which strongly suggests there's a number of actually senior people wanting to follow but needing a sacrificial fool to say it first.
This is the beginning of the end.
Et tu Anas?
There is a clear disconnect between what's emanating from No 10 this morning and the reality where the Cabinet and the wider Labour Party are today
The prime minister's official spokesman said that Starmer was 'upbeat' and 'confident' in a speech to staff this morning, adding that he is positive and determined. They said he isn't resigning
All the while:
* Anas Sarwar, the Scottish Labour leader, is poised to directly call for Sir Keir Starmer to go. He's said to be furious about Mandelson and wider events in Westminster
* Cabinet ministers are having discussions about what to do if he stands down. They suggest he is in a dark place and are worried he could go. They are asking who should be interim PM
* Notably NO cabinet ministers have come out to defend the PM in the last 24 hours
* We've now had two big No 10 resignations in 24 hours - Morgan McSweeney and Tim Allan. The PM is losing his most senior allies
* We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of the Mandelson files and their implications not just for Starmer but for Labour more broadly
https://youtube.com/watch?v=a_1M6s5ZbtE
The direct of communications who’s been utterly useless since he came in is now an apparent huge loss for No 10 !
As in Tudor times, it is always the northern rebellions that really get things going. #Scotland
What an appaling human being
It would be a strange mix of humour and terror for the staff.
Epstein has barely harmed Trump and he is mentioned more times in the Epstein files than Jesus is in the bible.
Rayner has that tax affair hanging over her . And the rest of the choices are hardly inspiring .
Starmer, the most unpopular PM in modern times, had zero credibility or political capital left before the Mandelson crisis. The Mandy crisis is shaping up to be the biggest political crisis since Profumo - and probably before that, so since Suez.
His aides are leaving before he is ousted, and his cabinet doesn't seem keen to back him.
If he lasts till midweek, I'd be surprised.
We need one of Starmer singing 'I have Confidence' from The Sound of Music
I'm not sure he can do the latter, given the scale of the crisis and the weakness his position.
Probably the only way we ever see David Lammy as PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c74wd01egvyt
Sarwar used to be indecisive but he's not nearly as sure these days.
This might be an opportunity for a reset.
You cannot be First Lord of the Treasury when they are investigating you
It’s an Anassination.
All likely to get better positions in a future cabinet.
Can Starmer overhaul Farage? No.
New Labour leader gets a bounce and the Tories are polling in the low tens.
Might not see the light of day now.