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Please exercise caution with this Find Out Now poll – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,915
edited January 28 in General
Please exercise caution with this Find Out Now poll – politicalbetting.com

Please exercise caution with this poll. The Telegraph reports this is based on a sample size of just 143. The margin of error on this poll is just over 8% if the sample size correctly recorded, most polls have a MOE of around 3%.https://t.co/ghf9KCFqhg https://t.co/ZxHeLWbN0R

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • eekeek Posts: 32,408
    The actual polling figures aren't visible - I'm seeing a Not Found message.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,162
    It was 8 on Betfair earlier :(
    Too late now ..
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,417
    Possibly the significance of this poll isn't what it tells us about the state of play, but more how it frames the story.

    "Can't win here" will be the kiss of death.
  • eek said:

    The actual polling figures aren't visible - I'm seeing a Not Found message.

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2016543778631303619

    🚨 NEW: The first by-election poll from Gorton and Denton shows Reform UK winning the seat

    ➡️ REF - 30%
    🔴 LAB - 27%
    🟢 GRN - 17%
    🔵 CON - 6%
    🔶 LD - 2%

    Don't knows - 18%

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK
    , 143 sample size, January 26-27
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,898
    edited January 28
    For what it's worth Daily Mail has a supplementary poll from FindOutNow if Burnham had been selected.

    Lab 49%, Reform 28% Greens 8% Conservatives 7%
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,502
    From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,859
    That more a largish focus group.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,859

    From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.

    I think they're trying keep him propped up until after the midterms.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,200

    Possibly the significance of this poll isn't what it tells us about the state of play, but more how it frames the story.

    "Can't win here" will be the kiss of death.

    This is true, but we should not be happy that essentially random numbers can determine political outcomes.

    Given the margin of error you could easily have seen Greens leading, and that would lead to a different outcome.

    I'm sure Greens would have used a similar-sized poll in the same way if it gave better figures for them, but it wouldn't matter so much with a different voting system...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 85,859
    Any of our resident experts know anything about this ?

    China just open-sourced AI that makes $200 cameras outperform $2,000 sensors.

    Ant Group dropped:
    → 3.2M training samples
    → Full code + models
    → Fixes depth cameras on glass, mirrors, metal

    A $200 consumer camera + free AI now beats $800 pro sensors.

    China is giving away the entire robotics stack.

    This is infrastructure-level disruption...

    https://x.com/heyshrutimishra/status/2016225484263326133

    (Longish thread.)
  • eekeek Posts: 32,408
    edited January 28
    Nigelb said:

    From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.

    I think they're trying keep him propped up until after the midterms.
    JD will want him propped up until January next year so he can have 2 runs as President.

    If he succeeds any earlier than January 20th 2027 and he will only be able to run in 2028 as his 2.x years would count as his first term.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,292
    Artist said:

    For what it's worth Daily Mail has a supplementary poll from FindOutNow if Burnham had been selected.

    Lab 49%, Reform 28% Greens 8% Conservatives 7%

    What about a supplementary poll for a GM Mayoral by-election showing a win for Reform? That seems to be what 50 Labour MPs would like to happen.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,359
    I've never seen a PB thread closed with as few as 65 comments on it, as the previous one did.
    That thread should be treated as even more unreliable than the FON poll.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,040
    eek said:

    The actual polling figures aren't visible - I'm seeing a Not Found message.

    Were you looking for a LibDem voter in the constituency?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,200
    Nigelb said:

    Any of our resident experts know anything about this ?

    China just open-sourced AI that makes $200 cameras outperform $2,000 sensors.

    Ant Group dropped:
    → 3.2M training samples
    → Full code + models
    → Fixes depth cameras on glass, mirrors, metal

    A $200 consumer camera + free AI now beats $800 pro sensors.

    China is giving away the entire robotics stack.

    This is infrastructure-level disruption...

    https://x.com/heyshrutimishra/status/2016225484263326133

    (Longish thread.)

    If you use the more expensive sensors with the AI then that would presumably be even better?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,437
    Where are the tables for this poll? FON are BPC members and must publish
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,040

    Artist said:

    For what it's worth Daily Mail has a supplementary poll from FindOutNow if Burnham had been selected.

    Lab 49%, Reform 28% Greens 8% Conservatives 7%

    What about a supplementary poll for a GM Mayoral by-election showing a win for Reform? That seems to be what 50 Labour MPs would like to happen.
    Burnham is popular in Manchester: he could resign as an MP and run.
  • viewcode said:

    Where are the tables for this poll? FON are BPC members and must publish

    They have until Friday to publish their tables.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,200
    Nigelb said:

    From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.

    I think they're trying keep him propped up until after the midterms.
    Feels a bit like the attempt to nurse Biden through the 2024 election. Months and months to go and it's only going to get worse.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,140
    edited January 28
    I think anything could happen in Gorton and Denton

    Certainly enough to stress Starmer, Farage and Polanski

    Stay at home labour supporters could be quite a factor, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Starmer get away with it
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,853
    Nigelb said:

    From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.

    I think they're trying keep him propped up until after the midterms.
    I don't think it is inconceivable that the 25th Amendment might come into play
  • SNP MPs are dumb as Liz Truss.


  • Hmm, free and fair election update.

    BREAKING: FBI executes search warrant at Fulton County, Georgia election office in connection with 2020 vote - Fox
  • From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.

    When was Trump last NOT "dangerous"?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,200
    edited January 28

    SNP MPs are dumb as Liz Truss.


    Makes one come over all HYUFD and want to abolish Holyrood and proscribe the SNP. It's as bad as the pro-Independence propaganda churned out by the Iranian sockpuppet accounts.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,200

    From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.

    When was Trump last NOT "dangerous"?
    1951?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 27,257
    edited January 28

    Artist said:

    For what it's worth Daily Mail has a supplementary poll from FindOutNow if Burnham had been selected.

    Lab 49%, Reform 28% Greens 8% Conservatives 7%

    What about a supplementary poll for a GM Mayoral by-election showing a win for Reform? That seems to be what 50 Labour MPs would like to happen.
    I doubt that GM is especially fertile territory for Reform.

    Perhaps some parts like Wigan and Leigh, but overall they ought to be able to be defeated.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,836
    edited January 28

    Nigelb said:

    From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.

    I think they're trying keep him propped up until after the midterms.
    I don't think it is inconceivable that the 25th Amendment might come into play
    JD, if he is to hit the 25th button, will want to wait until 2 years in in order to still get two more full terms in order to install the Project 2025 paradise he dreams of.


    edit: see @eek beat me to this point
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,520

    Hmm, free and fair election update.

    BREAKING: FBI executes search warrant at Fulton County, Georgia election office in connection with 2020 vote - Fox

    Trump lost in 2020 by 7 MILLION votes :lol:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 69,140
    edited January 28
    Deleted

    Already posted
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,378
    I'd back Goodwin to win unless someone can come up with decent dirt on him.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,809

    Deleted

    Already posted

    It looks exactly the same as we are all thinking it stands this evening though, doesn’t it?
  • eekeek Posts: 32,408

    I'd back Goodwin to win unless someone can come up with decent dirt on him.

    His love of Trump will pull some of his vote away, but it will require a clear cut winner out of Green / Labour for Reform not to win..

    Not that that's a bad thing, as FPTP is an insane electoral system when you move beyond 2/3 parties that will generate very weird results...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,485
    The market for next Tory leader is insane. The top 6 (with Hills):
    Cleverley
    Lam - reported to be going Reform
    Coutinho - literally almost no-one has heard of her apart from anoraks and her mum
    Boris - not an MP
    Farage - not a Conservative
    Lowe - not a Conservative.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,947
    edited January 28
    This is why I were classy footwear, people always notice your footwear.

    The ex-headmaster of a leading private school has denied using its credit card to purchase tickets for a cricket match at Lord’s.

    Julian Johnson-Munday, 63, was charged with fraud over claims that he used a Culford School credit card for “personal expenses”, including stays at the East India Club in St James’s.

    Mr Johnson-Munday wore a skirt and long black boots during a hearing at Westminster magistrates’ court on Tuesday, in which he was referred to using male pronouns.


    The headmaster – who was dismissed by the school, in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, in 2023 – is alleged to have used one of its credit cards for tickets to a cricket match at Lord’s in London.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/01/27/headteacher-denies-buying-cricket-tickets-school-funds/?recomm_id=f50ba40e-374c-49fd-84a5-457dad709652
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,967
    Isn't Trump repulsive? He can't even issue threats elegantly. You end up not caring what happens as long as he loses which if he goes to war with Iran he might.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,809

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,359

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    I'm happy to take lessons from an expert, like you, on meaningless drivel. :)
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,809
    Roger said:

    Isn't Trump repulsive? He can't even issue threats elegantly. You end up not caring what happens as long as he loses which if he goes to war with Iran he might.

    Trump doesn’t actually have a large armada sailing there.

    Nor does Donald have the bottle for long, ongoing operations with US military casualties and Iranian civil deaths mounting up.

    So if Iran call bluff on this bit of gun boat diplomacy, what is Trumps off ramp from bigging this all up? Kidnap the supreme leader as a trade?

    It’s like a cowboy movie.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,485

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    As to G and D, from the off I have thought it trends Green.

    As to a GE, the structure, in England and outside LD land, looks at the moment to depend on two interesting prospects. Do Greens and Labour and OTOH Reform and Tories fight each other to mutual death. The winner will be which of Left of Centre and Right of Centre have voters who organiser their vote better. If both organise badly, it's random. As they all hate each other this is possible.

    The most likely, as LOC and ROC will both get about half the votes and most people want a plausible government, and 70% don't want Reform, is that Lab v Con is the main bout.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,455
    algarkirk said:

    The market for next Tory leader is insane. The top 6 (with Hills):
    Cleverley
    Lam - reported to be going Reform
    Coutinho - literally almost no-one has heard of her apart from anoraks and her mum
    Boris - not an MP
    Farage - not a Conservative
    Lowe - not a Conservative.

    If they decide simply to close is that a void result?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,809
    edited January 28

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    I'm happy to take lessons from an expert, like you, on meaningless drivel. :)
    Nope. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing, not my words but Kemi’s.

    Kemi clearly said after Jenrick called Britain broken, that Britain is NOT BROKEN. Today’s change is a strategically crafted evolution of the parties position on it, clever enough to beat PB two threads back, as everyone inanely posted “but something being repaired, it’s broken.”

    Look carefully. Kemi is not stating it’s broken.

    Too clever for you?
  • Deleted

    Already posted

    It looks exactly the same as we are all thinking it stands this evening though, doesn’t it?
    Yes it was as @TSE had posted and I hadn't noticed

    Ridiculous poll
  • Roger said:

    Isn't Trump repulsive? He can't even issue threats elegantly. You end up not caring what happens as long as he loses which if he goes to war with Iran he might.

    He is but he won't lose to Iran
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,967
    rcs1000 said:

    Artist said:

    For what it's worth Daily Mail has a supplementary poll from FindOutNow if Burnham had been selected.

    Lab 49%, Reform 28% Greens 8% Conservatives 7%

    What about a supplementary poll for a GM Mayoral by-election showing a win for Reform? That seems to be what 50 Labour MPs would like to happen.
    Burnham is popular in Manchester: he could resign as an MP and run.
    What good would that do him? He wants to become PM not MP for Denton
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,455

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    So it’s not broken but it needs repair.

    Riiight.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,679
    edited January 28

    Artist said:

    For what it's worth Daily Mail has a supplementary poll from FindOutNow if Burnham had been selected.

    Lab 49%, Reform 28% Greens 8% Conservatives 7%

    What about a supplementary poll for a GM Mayoral by-election showing a win for Reform? That seems to be what 50 Labour MPs would like to happen.
    I doubt that GM is especially fertile territory for Reform.

    Perhaps some parts like Wigan and Leigh, but overall they ought to be able to be defeated.
    I think right now Reform would win a plurality in GM. ISTR a poll at the weekend which had them on 36% across GM.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,809
    algarkirk said:

    The market for next Tory leader is insane. The top 6 (with Hills):
    Cleverley
    Lam - reported to be going Reform
    Coutinho - literally almost no-one has heard of her apart from anoraks and her mum
    Boris - not an MP
    Farage - not a Conservative
    Lowe - not a Conservative.

    We have all heard about Claire on PB. Respected as spiky and punchy in interviews and debate. Superb communicator, strong and fluent at the dispatch box. Rishi Acolyte.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,967
    eek said:

    The actual polling figures aren't visible - I'm seeing a Not Found message.

    No one leaves an FoN poll empty handed. Pick up your crackerjack pencil on your way out
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,337
    Lib Dem Party Political broadcast.

    What makes Britain Great, the Great British people

    Cut to a picture of people waving flags and Tommy Skinner is at the front.

    That made me laugh. The rest is just drivel. Ed Davey talking to camera. Pretty cheap to make.
  • Roger said:

    Isn't Trump repulsive? He can't even issue threats elegantly. You end up not caring what happens as long as he loses which if he goes to war with Iran he might.

    Trump doesn’t actually have a large armada sailing there.

    Nor does Donald have the bottle for long, ongoing operations with US military casualties and Iranian civil deaths mounting up.

    So if Iran call bluff on this bit of gun boat diplomacy, what is Trumps off ramp from bigging this all up? Kidnap the supreme leader as a trade?

    It’s like a cowboy movie.
    As per Sky

    Not an Armada but powerful.enough

    He has been repositing his carriers and certainly with his bases already in the area he could overpower Iran if he is minded to
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,417
    Interesting if true.

    Just to say, to give some sense of my issue with this poll, note that FON put their polls on a lottery's website. Now Gorton and Denton is about 30% Muslim. Now, I'm no religious expert, but my understanding is that Islam strictly forbids gambling...

    https://bsky.app/profile/cjterry.bsky.social/post/3mdiu2v3pzs2x
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,841

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    If it were not broken, it wouldn't need repairing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,455

    Roger said:

    Isn't Trump repulsive? He can't even issue threats elegantly. You end up not caring what happens as long as he loses which if he goes to war with Iran he might.

    Trump doesn’t actually have a large armada sailing there.

    Nor does Donald have the bottle for long, ongoing operations with US military casualties and Iranian civil deaths mounting up.

    So if Iran call bluff on this bit of gun boat diplomacy, what is Trumps off ramp from bigging this all up? Kidnap the supreme leader as a trade?

    It’s like a cowboy movie.
    As per Sky

    Not an Armada but powerful.enough

    He has been repositing his carriers and certainly with his bases already in the area he could overpower Iran if he is minded to
    He could bomb the hell out of it which is not quite the same thing. Actually conquering it would need a completely different level of effort, way beyond what the US had in the gulf wars. That is probably impossible.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,841
    36/46 right left split.

    Reform could do it given some sensible Tory support, and Labour and Green not wanting to surrender the field to each other.

    However, I would worry that the Labour vote will fold pretty efficiently into the Green vote.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,455

    algarkirk said:

    The market for next Tory leader is insane. The top 6 (with Hills):
    Cleverley
    Lam - reported to be going Reform
    Coutinho - literally almost no-one has heard of her apart from anoraks and her mum
    Boris - not an MP
    Farage - not a Conservative
    Lowe - not a Conservative.

    We have all heard about Claire on PB. Respected as spiky and punchy in interviews and debate. Superb communicator, strong and fluent at the dispatch box. Rishi Acolyte.
    Should be shadow Chancellor.
  • Interesting if true.

    Just to say, to give some sense of my issue with this poll, note that FON put their polls on a lottery's website. Now Gorton and Denton is about 30% Muslim. Now, I'm no religious expert, but my understanding is that Islam strictly forbids gambling...

    https://bsky.app/profile/cjterry.bsky.social/post/3mdiu2v3pzs2x

    Absolutely, Islam forbids gambling.

    #GoodMuslim
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,806
    50% of Tories are too complacent (and 25% want to be taken over), but this is just really arrogant from Reform - I get expressing confidence is important, but still.

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,350

    Roger said:

    Isn't Trump repulsive? He can't even issue threats elegantly. You end up not caring what happens as long as he loses which if he goes to war with Iran he might.

    Trump doesn’t actually have a large armada sailing there.

    Nor does Donald have the bottle for long, ongoing operations with US military casualties and Iranian civil deaths mounting up.

    So if Iran call bluff on this bit of gun boat diplomacy, what is Trumps off ramp from bigging this all up? Kidnap the supreme leader as a trade?

    It’s like a cowboy movie.
    As per Sky

    Not an Armada but powerful.enough

    He has been repositing his carriers and certainly with his bases already in the area he could overpower Iran if he is minded to
    Don't think anyone in the US would be that interested in Trump's overseas adventures. He's be better off invading Canada or Mexico if he wanted to boost his popularity.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,437

    viewcode said:

    Where are the tables for this poll? FON are BPC members and must publish

    They have until Friday to publish their tables.
    Thank you
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,841
    DavidL said:

    Roger said:

    Isn't Trump repulsive? He can't even issue threats elegantly. You end up not caring what happens as long as he loses which if he goes to war with Iran he might.

    Trump doesn’t actually have a large armada sailing there.

    Nor does Donald have the bottle for long, ongoing operations with US military casualties and Iranian civil deaths mounting up.

    So if Iran call bluff on this bit of gun boat diplomacy, what is Trumps off ramp from bigging this all up? Kidnap the supreme leader as a trade?

    It’s like a cowboy movie.
    As per Sky

    Not an Armada but powerful.enough

    He has been repositing his carriers and certainly with his bases already in the area he could overpower Iran if he is minded to
    He could bomb the hell out of it which is not quite the same thing. Actually conquering it would need a completely different level of effort, way beyond what the US had in the gulf wars. That is probably impossible.
    He could try to force some political reforms, under the threat of bombing something very large. Doubt they'd play ball.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 9,076

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Vote Lib Dem. The EU is broken and we (Britain) can put it back together.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,806

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    If it were not broken, it wouldn't need repairing.
    There's different types of being broken. Some breaks are capable of simple repair.

    Tory argument appears to be we can still treat our broken finger, Reform that we need to cut off the hand before infection from the break spreads further.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,806

    Interesting if true.

    Just to say, to give some sense of my issue with this poll, note that FON put their polls on a lottery's website. Now Gorton and Denton is about 30% Muslim. Now, I'm no religious expert, but my understanding is that Islam strictly forbids gambling...

    https://bsky.app/profile/cjterry.bsky.social/post/3mdiu2v3pzs2x

    Absolutely, Islam forbids gambling.

    #GoodMuslim
    Does it forbid giving advice to those who are gambling?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,153
    They should rename to ‘Find out Later’?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,967
    Cookie said:

    Artist said:

    For what it's worth Daily Mail has a supplementary poll from FindOutNow if Burnham had been selected.

    Lab 49%, Reform 28% Greens 8% Conservatives 7%

    What about a supplementary poll for a GM Mayoral by-election showing a win for Reform? That seems to be what 50 Labour MPs would like to happen.
    I doubt that GM is especially fertile territory for Reform.

    Perhaps some parts like Wigan and Leigh, but overall they ought to be able to be defeated.
    I think right now Reform would win a plurality in GM. ISTR a poll at the weekend which had them on 36% across GM.
    Sounds bonkers. Which poll?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,947
    edited January 28
    kle4 said:

    Interesting if true.

    Just to say, to give some sense of my issue with this poll, note that FON put their polls on a lottery's website. Now Gorton and Denton is about 30% Muslim. Now, I'm no religious expert, but my understanding is that Islam strictly forbids gambling...

    https://bsky.app/profile/cjterry.bsky.social/post/3mdiu2v3pzs2x

    Absolutely, Islam forbids gambling.

    #GoodMuslim
    Does it forbid giving advice to those who are gambling?
    Yes.

    However given how good my betting turns out, I consider it investing rather than gambling.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,200
    edited January 28

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    If it were not broken, it wouldn't need repairing.
    I think there's a difference between - this thing is not working (i.e. it is broken) and needs repairing - and something like - this thing is broken beyond repair, and so we need to vaporise it and start again.

    My sense is that when Reform say that Britain is broken, they mean that the current model for how Britain is governed is broken beyond repair and needs to be replaced entirely, and so the difference is that Kemi is saying that things are not so bad that they can't be repaired within the current parameters of the system as it exists.

    So it's the age old reform vs revolution argument.

    Edit: and of course a further confusion is that the party in favour of revolution have called themselves Reform.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,408
    In another example of there is always a (now rapidly being deleted) tweet


  • Interesting if true.

    Just to say, to give some sense of my issue with this poll, note that FON put their polls on a lottery's website. Now Gorton and Denton is about 30% Muslim. Now, I'm no religious expert, but my understanding is that Islam strictly forbids gambling...

    https://bsky.app/profile/cjterry.bsky.social/post/3mdiu2v3pzs2x

    Absolutely, Islam forbids gambling.

    #GoodMuslim
    Presumably, TSE, you are ok because you only bet on certainties and that can hardly be deemed 'gambling'.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,806

    eek said:

    The actual polling figures aren't visible - I'm seeing a Not Found message.

    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/2016543778631303619

    🚨 NEW: The first by-election poll from Gorton and Denton shows Reform UK winning the seat

    ➡️ REF - 30%
    🔴 LAB - 27%
    🟢 GRN - 17%
    🔵 CON - 6%
    🔶 LD - 2%

    Don't knows - 18%

    Via
    @FindoutnowUK
    , 143 sample size, January 26-27
    Tories holding their deposit? I call that optimistic.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 54,153

    From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.

    When was Trump last NOT "dangerous"?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e88CMMm1lJ8
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,885

    This is why I were classy footwear, people always notice your footwear.

    The ex-headmaster of a leading private school has denied using its credit card to purchase tickets for a cricket match at Lord’s.

    Julian Johnson-Munday, 63, was charged with fraud over claims that he used a Culford School credit card for “personal expenses”, including stays at the East India Club in St James’s.

    Mr Johnson-Munday wore a skirt and long black boots during a hearing at Westminster magistrates’ court on Tuesday, in which he was referred to using male pronouns.


    The headmaster – who was dismissed by the school, in Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, in 2023 – is alleged to have used one of its credit cards for tickets to a cricket match at Lord’s in London.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2026/01/27/headteacher-denies-buying-cricket-tickets-school-funds/?recomm_id=f50ba40e-374c-49fd-84a5-457dad709652

    I'm surprised they did not hush it up. The school risks becoming a laughing stock over a couple of hundred quid.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,408

    Interesting if true.

    Just to say, to give some sense of my issue with this poll, note that FON put their polls on a lottery's website. Now Gorton and Denton is about 30% Muslim. Now, I'm no religious expert, but my understanding is that Islam strictly forbids gambling...

    https://bsky.app/profile/cjterry.bsky.social/post/3mdiu2v3pzs2x

    Absolutely, Islam forbids gambling.

    #GoodMuslim
    Presumably, TSE, you are ok because you only bet on certainties and that can hardly be deemed 'gambling'.
    He uses betfair so it's trading...
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,857
    Wahay. I did Labour at a ludicrous 7 and can now lay back at 3.3. Which I will. Rude not to.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,885
    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    The market for next Tory leader is insane. The top 6 (with Hills):
    Cleverley
    Lam - reported to be going Reform
    Coutinho - literally almost no-one has heard of her apart from anoraks and her mum
    Boris - not an MP
    Farage - not a Conservative
    Lowe - not a Conservative.

    We have all heard about Claire on PB. Respected as spiky and punchy in interviews and debate. Superb communicator, strong and fluent at the dispatch box. Rishi Acolyte.
    Should be shadow Chancellor.
    Claire Coutinho shadows Ed Miliband. Has she laid a glove on him?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,836

    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    4h
    “An administration official gave away the game to Punchbowl News, admitting that these “de-escalatory measures” are about placating Senate Democrats so they don’t seize this moment to demand restrictions on ICE as part of any government funding package.”

    https://x.com/BillKristol/status/2016512590709477497
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,809

    Roger said:

    Isn't Trump repulsive? He can't even issue threats elegantly. You end up not caring what happens as long as he loses which if he goes to war with Iran he might.

    He is but he won't lose to Iran
    What actually is the special military operation Trump has in mind though? What is the output, that plan works out, you gain and can acclaim?

    Trump is saying it’s about no nukes for Iran. If Iran privately has intent, no handshake over any agreement, or more military strikes same as last year fundamentally stops Iranian nukes, and can be hailed as finally stopping it for good?

    Blow up Bushehr? Pointless as Russia takes everything away from there already. More hits on Natanz and Fordow, merely delays, doesn’t greatly provide any solution to Irans determined quest, and would also shred the great triumph the 2025 strikes were claimed to be.

    Can we rule out, the same trick as on Venezuela, and get control of Iranian oil?
    Whether they are behind the curve and daft to be so oil mad, there’s still no doubt, this Whitehouse is, certifiably, oil mad.

    The US voters strike me as the sort who love the US military, but most of all like them deployed in defensive capacity, not used in political and ideological offensive capacity. So what do all the Republican candidates make of it, this election year?
  • TazTaz Posts: 24,337
    eek said:

    In another example of there is always a (now rapidly being deleted) tweet


    You’d think they’d, and this seems to affect most parties, would do due diligence on candidates social media history.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,200
    edited January 28

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    The market for next Tory leader is insane. The top 6 (with Hills):
    Cleverley
    Lam - reported to be going Reform
    Coutinho - literally almost no-one has heard of her apart from anoraks and her mum
    Boris - not an MP
    Farage - not a Conservative
    Lowe - not a Conservative.

    We have all heard about Claire on PB. Respected as spiky and punchy in interviews and debate. Superb communicator, strong and fluent at the dispatch box. Rishi Acolyte.
    Should be shadow Chancellor.
    Claire Coutinho shadows Ed Miliband. Has she laid a glove on him?
    Ed Miliband rivals Reeves as the PB Tories least favourite Cabinet minister, and yet I can't recall a critique from Coutinho ever being quoted, and I didn't realise she was his shadow until you pointed it out.

    Mind you, on the same basis, you'd have to say Stride was not up to the job of Shadow Chancellor. I can't think of any members of the shadow cabinet that haven't been anonymous, excepting Philp.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 65,327
    No bet on this poll.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,806
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    In another example of there is always a (now rapidly being deleted) tweet


    You’d think they’d, and this seems to affect most parties, would do due diligence on candidates social media history.
    Goodwin is a, er, colourful character, so I'd assume they were considering that overall a plus rather than a negative, but even from so long ago classic 'bash the area I'm standing in' comments are going to be embarrassing.

    On its own it doesn't look that bashing though.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,200
    Taz said:

    eek said:

    In another example of there is always a (now rapidly being deleted) tweet


    You’d think they’d, and this seems to affect most parties, would do due diligence on candidates social media history.
    If they did due diligence on candidates social media history, and ruled candidates out who had ever said anything a little bit objectionable, they wouldn't be left with any candidates.

    Everyone has always said something daft on social media that can be held against them in the future.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,040

    Nigelb said:

    From The Guardian just a few hours ago:

    "Slovakia's Fico denies reports suggesting he was concerned about Trump's 'psychological state'
    Meanwhile, Politico has published a report suggesting that Slovakia’s prime minister Robert Fico reportedly told fellow EU leaders that a meeting with Donald Trump left him shocked by the US president’s state of mind – a claim publicly denied by Fico.

    "According to five EU diplomats briefed on the talks on the margin of the last EU summit who spoke with Politico, Fico reportedly told other leaders he was concerned about the US president’s “psychological state,” saying he came across as “dangerous” in their meeting at Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate earlier this month."

    It has to be said some of Trump's recent posts have been even more deluded than usual.

    JD must be doing some deep-breathing exercises.

    I think they're trying keep him propped up until after the midterms.
    I don't think it is inconceivable that the 25th Amendment might come into play
    The problem with mental decline is that it comes and goes.

    One day, someone has had a good night's sleep, and is rested and sharp, and you think "oh, they're just like they've always been". The next day they are confused and angry and incoherent.

    The thing is that the person who is rested and sharp doesn't realise that there are also times when they are a gibbering idiot, and that things are only going to get worse. Pulling the trigger on the 25th is a really difficult thing to do, because if Mr Rested and Sharp turns up, you're going to look like you stabbed a sane person in the back for naked personal ambition.

    It's why it didn't happen with the -also obviously unfit- Biden.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,857

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    If it were not broken, it wouldn't need repairing.
    I think there's a difference between - this thing is not working (i.e. it is broken) and needs repairing - and something like - this thing is broken beyond repair, and so we need to vaporise it and start again.

    My sense is that when Reform say that Britain is broken, they mean that the current model for how Britain is governed is broken beyond repair and needs to be replaced entirely, and so the difference is that Kemi is saying that things are not so bad that they can't be repaired within the current parameters of the system as it exists.

    So it's the age old reform vs revolution argument.

    Edit: and of course a further confusion is that the party in favour of revolution have called themselves Reform.
    That's right. Britain is 'broken' implies it's in deep deep shit and requires a reboot. The Cons can't say that because they were in power from 2010 to 2024. Reform and the Greens can. It's arrant nonsense but they can say it. It's the biggest tool in the box for populist parties.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,806

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    The market for next Tory leader is insane. The top 6 (with Hills):
    Cleverley
    Lam - reported to be going Reform
    Coutinho - literally almost no-one has heard of her apart from anoraks and her mum
    Boris - not an MP
    Farage - not a Conservative
    Lowe - not a Conservative.

    We have all heard about Claire on PB. Respected as spiky and punchy in interviews and debate. Superb communicator, strong and fluent at the dispatch box. Rishi Acolyte.
    Should be shadow Chancellor.
    Claire Coutinho shadows Ed Miliband. Has she laid a glove on him?
    Ed Miliband rivals Reeves as the PB Tories least favourite Cabinet minister, and yet I can't recall a critique from Coutinho ever being quoted, and I didn't realise she was his shadow until you pointed it out.

    Mind you, on the same basis, you'd have to say Stride was not up to the job of Shadow Chancellor. I can't think of any members of the shadow cabinet that haven't been anonymous, excepting Philp.
    I used to joke Stride had a superpower in that I would compeltely forget about him five minutes after seeing him, making him pretty good for facing down bad news, but I do now actually recall him, though not anything he's said, which is an improvement.

    Now that Jenrick bloke, he made a splash at least.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,597
    edited January 28

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    In another example of there is always a (now rapidly being deleted) tweet


    You’d think they’d, and this seems to affect most parties, would do due diligence on candidates social media history.
    If they did due diligence on candidates social media history, and ruled candidates out who had ever said anything a little bit objectionable, they wouldn't be left with any candidates.

    Everyone has always said something daft on social media that can be held against them in the future.
    A sensible thing for anybody who does a lot of social media (to be honsst anybody) is to use an autodelete system. It a) stops a lot of this people trawling years back for something iffy and b) even if you are famous enough that yours tweets get cached you can say deleted years ago.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,806
    kinabalu said:

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    If it were not broken, it wouldn't need repairing.
    I think there's a difference between - this thing is not working (i.e. it is broken) and needs repairing - and something like - this thing is broken beyond repair, and so we need to vaporise it and start again.

    My sense is that when Reform say that Britain is broken, they mean that the current model for how Britain is governed is broken beyond repair and needs to be replaced entirely, and so the difference is that Kemi is saying that things are not so bad that they can't be repaired within the current parameters of the system as it exists.

    So it's the age old reform vs revolution argument.

    Edit: and of course a further confusion is that the party in favour of revolution have called themselves Reform.
    That's right. Britain is 'broken' implies it's in deep deep shit and requires a reboot. The Cons can't say that because they were in power from 2010 to 2024. Reform and the Greens can. It's arrant nonsense but they can say it. It's the biggest tool in the box for populist parties.
    More, they can say how easy it would be to fix.

    Once they ever got in it would be at least a bit more complex, and they'd acknoweldge that then (see any Council where either has control), and hope that they'd retain sufficient support to make a long term go of it - traditional parties have had that happen, but disappointing realities might be more problematic for parties promising transformation.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,809
    edited January 28

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    In another example of there is always a (now rapidly being deleted) tweet


    You’d think they’d, and this seems to affect most parties, would do due diligence on candidates social media history.
    If they did due diligence on candidates social media history, and ruled candidates out who had ever said anything a little bit objectionable, they wouldn't be left with any candidates.

    Everyone has always said something daft on social media that can be held against them in the future.
    So there’s hope for Leon becoming Reform MP?

    In the first Reform government, Leon could be put in charge of Media, Fisheries and Sport. With power to ban PB, and allow it back if it makes grovelling apology and promises to behave.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 63,040

    Interesting if true.

    Just to say, to give some sense of my issue with this poll, note that FON put their polls on a lottery's website. Now Gorton and Denton is about 30% Muslim. Now, I'm no religious expert, but my understanding is that Islam strictly forbids gambling...

    https://bsky.app/profile/cjterry.bsky.social/post/3mdiu2v3pzs2x

    It's a well known fact that you will never see a Muslim in a casino.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,841

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    If it were not broken, it wouldn't need repairing.
    I think there's a difference between - this thing is not working (i.e. it is broken) and needs repairing - and something like - this thing is broken beyond repair, and so we need to vaporise it and start again.

    My sense is that when Reform say that Britain is broken, they mean that the current model for how Britain is governed is broken beyond repair and needs to be replaced entirely, and so the difference is that Kemi is saying that things are not so bad that they can't be repaired within the current parameters of the system as it exists.

    So it's the age old reform vs revolution argument.

    Edit: and of course a further confusion is that the party in favour of revolution have called themselves Reform.
    The idea of having borders that one can control is hardly a revolutionary one. Neither is ceasing the practice of penalising ones' own industries whilst hungrily importing from countries burning dirty fuels. Neither is only providing state benefits to British nationals. I don't think there's anything in Reform's core prospectus that most British people would see as illogical - most would assume much of it is already in place.

    What Reform are addressing (and what the Tories were addressing until the current jolts) is the fact that we've gone so far down the road to crazy-ville that 'revolutionary' reform is needed to do what are actually very prosaic things. Britain isn't currently governable. Even Labour are finding this. If it were, why would SKS admit that he was pulling levers and nothing was happening?

    Reform have got it wrong with their 'Britain is broken' phrasing though. It sounds too negative. They are actually the only ones who can be arsed to fix Britain. Everyone else has given up, and are content to kick the can down the road and hope they make enough to retire abroad. That makes Reform the optimists, not the pessimists.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,455
    edited January 28

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    The market for next Tory leader is insane. The top 6 (with Hills):
    Cleverley
    Lam - reported to be going Reform
    Coutinho - literally almost no-one has heard of her apart from anoraks and her mum
    Boris - not an MP
    Farage - not a Conservative
    Lowe - not a Conservative.

    We have all heard about Claire on PB. Respected as spiky and punchy in interviews and debate. Superb communicator, strong and fluent at the dispatch box. Rishi Acolyte.
    Should be shadow Chancellor.
    Claire Coutinho shadows Ed Miliband. Has she laid a glove on him?
    Ed Miliband rivals Reeves as the PB Tories least favourite Cabinet minister, and yet I can't recall a critique from Coutinho ever being quoted, and I didn't realise she was his shadow until you pointed it out.

    Mind you, on the same basis, you'd have to say Stride was not up to the job of Shadow Chancellor. I can't think of any members of the shadow cabinet that haven't been anonymous, excepting Philp.
    She was effective in opposing his close down the North Sea nonsense and made good points about the need for more energy production if we are to get the AI mega systems.
    I think she has done better than most but I accept that is a painfully low bar.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 22,200

    On Gorton and Denton, I've had advance sight of the main parties' pitches to the voters, focusing on the state of modern Britain, and lay them out here to help punters.

    1. Vote Reform. Britain is broken. Blame the immigrants.
    2. Vote Green. Britain is broken. Blame the super-rich.
    3. Vote Labour. Britain isn't broken, but after 14 years of Tory rule it's not in great shape and, slowly but surely, we're going to put it right (with or without the help of A. Burnham).
    4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    5. Vote Lib Dem: we're not sure whether Britain is broken or not.
    6. Vote WPB: Britain is broken. Twin Gorton with Gaza.

    Christ knows who's going to win out of that lot.

    Delete 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is in the same place as our Party: not quite broken, but nearly.
    Insert 4. Vote Conservative. Britain is NOT broken, it just needs repairing.

    Kemi gave that to us herself earlier today, so there was no point to you making up meaningless drivel.
    If it were not broken, it wouldn't need repairing.
    I think there's a difference between - this thing is not working (i.e. it is broken) and needs repairing - and something like - this thing is broken beyond repair, and so we need to vaporise it and start again.

    My sense is that when Reform say that Britain is broken, they mean that the current model for how Britain is governed is broken beyond repair and needs to be replaced entirely, and so the difference is that Kemi is saying that things are not so bad that they can't be repaired within the current parameters of the system as it exists.

    So it's the age old reform vs revolution argument.

    Edit: and of course a further confusion is that the party in favour of revolution have called themselves Reform.
    The idea of having borders that one can control is hardly a revolutionary one. Neither is ceasing the practice of penalising ones' own industries whilst hungrily importing from countries burning dirty fuels. Neither is only providing state benefits to British nationals. I don't think there's anything in Reform's core prospectus that most British people would see as illogical - most would assume much of it is already in place.

    What Reform are addressing (and what the Tories were addressing until the current jolts) is the fact that we've gone so far down the road to crazy-ville that 'revolutionary' reform is needed to do what are actually very prosaic things. Britain isn't currently governable. Even Labour are finding this. If it were, why would SKS admit that he was pulling levers and nothing was happening?

    Reform have got it wrong with their 'Britain is broken' phrasing though. It sounds too negative. They are actually the only ones who can be arsed to fix Britain. Everyone else has given up, and are content to kick the can down the road and hope they make enough to retire abroad. That makes Reform the optimists, not the pessimists.
    Everyone can make their ends sound reasonable - it's the means that are revolutionary and which people object to.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,841
    ...
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    algarkirk said:

    The market for next Tory leader is insane. The top 6 (with Hills):
    Cleverley
    Lam - reported to be going Reform
    Coutinho - literally almost no-one has heard of her apart from anoraks and her mum
    Boris - not an MP
    Farage - not a Conservative
    Lowe - not a Conservative.

    We have all heard about Claire on PB. Respected as spiky and punchy in interviews and debate. Superb communicator, strong and fluent at the dispatch box. Rishi Acolyte.
    Should be shadow Chancellor.
    Claire Coutinho shadows Ed Miliband. Has she laid a glove on him?
    Ed Miliband rivals Reeves as the PB Tories least favourite Cabinet minister, and yet I can't recall a critique from Coutinho ever being quoted, and I didn't realise she was his shadow until you pointed it out.

    Mind you, on the same basis, you'd have to say Stride was not up to the job of Shadow Chancellor. I can't think of any members of the shadow cabinet that haven't been anonymous, excepting Philp.
    She was effective in opposing his close down the North Sea nonsense and made good points about the need for more energy production if we are to get the AI mega systems.
    I think she has done better than most but I accept that is a painfully low bar.
    For what it's worth, I think she regularly makes him look a daft twot in the Commons, but who is watching Energy Questions (sadly)?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,417

    Taz said:

    eek said:

    In another example of there is always a (now rapidly being deleted) tweet


    You’d think they’d, and this seems to affect most parties, would do due diligence on candidates social media history.
    If they did due diligence on candidates social media history, and ruled candidates out who had ever said anything a little bit objectionable, they wouldn't be left with any candidates.

    Everyone has always said something daft on social media that can be held against them in the future.
    More of a problem in some bits of the political spectrum than others.

    If you are in a party whose MO is "saying the unsayable", sometimes you are going to have your people saying things that really really shouldn't be said.
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