Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
OT. For those who have the time Mamdani being interviewed by a variety of interviewers on his second day as Mayor of New York. Not since Blair in his prime have I heard such a skilled politician.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
Plus hire all the extra police to raid Canary Whary and city of London offices or Soho and film sets where coke use is rife?
Is it really good enough for Keir Starmer to call for the Iranian regime to use restraint? Showing restraint is what you might rebuke Trump and his immigration enforcement unit for not doing. Shouldn't we be telling Iran to listen to their people's concerns?
Iran has supported the biggest military aggression in Europe since 1945. What punishment has Europe inflicted as a result of this? This is why Trump thinks he can extort us. We're weak, weak, weak.
What is this 'biggest military aggression in Europe since 1945'?
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
I've heard there is some illness that elderly people may suffer which causes them to behave like that.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
They were having a calm exchange until Renee's wife told him to "got get yourself some lunch, big boy", which so antagonised him he had no choice but to make her a widow.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal and were not on your phone and not over the drink drive limit and had no drugs in your system you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
So it's fine to show someone shot dead for irritating an ICE thug, but we draw the line at airing a swear word expressing his contempt his victims ?
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You could say that about almost all crimes that are not murder, rape, burglary etc.
I doubt it will go anywhere, and there are certainly examples of poor police investigatory focus, but where would be if we just decided to ignore or not have laws on such things at all?
Edit: Speaking of police resources, what is going on with Nicola Sturgeon's ex? I know financial crimes can be complicated, but it took so damn long for any charges, and it's going to be so long before any trial he will die of old age before anything happens I expect.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
We evacuated our kids out of Minneapolis this weekend and my spouse reports that as she drove them out of town she saw "multiple freeway exits where people are being pulled over." It feels like the Twin Cities is being subjugated by a hostile occupying force. https://x.com/atrupar/status/2009804205981347913
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
So it's fine to show someone shot dead for irritating an ICE thug, but we draw the line at airing a swear word expressing his contempt his victims ?
Interesting choices.
Remember what the MPAA says; Horrific, Deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty words! That's what this war is all about! - South Park: Bigger, Longer, and uncut
As true now as it was in 1999.
As to 'life was endangered', if memory serves US courts basically give carte blanche on such things, state depending.
We evacuated our kids out of Minneapolis this weekend and my spouse reports that as she drove them out of town she saw "multiple freeway exits where people are being pulled over." It feels like the Twin Cities is being subjugated by a hostile occupying force. https://x.com/atrupar/status/2009804205981347913
It is really scary and frankly not a country I would visit [ though I have many times and now not able even to fly anyway]
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
They were having a calm exchange until Renee's wife told him to "got get yourself some lunch, big boy", which so antagonised him he had no choice but to make her a widow.
Summary execution of a woman is the only reasonable reaction when that woman's spouse is slightly rude to you. It's you or her, the only way it could have gone down.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
P.S. Sky are wrong to edit out the swearing. The swearing confirms intent.
Sultana remains the only MP to list herself as “Your Party” on the Commons website, while the other 3 MPs who are in the Independent Alliance and still in Your Party list themselves still as independents. This means that instead of looking like a party with the same number of MPs as the Greens or Plaid Cymru, Your Party looks to be the same size as the TUV in Parliament. Which just looks like a bizarre self-inflicted wound, but maybe reflects that Sultana and the other 3 can’t agree on anything.
I love posts like that with obscure details which only political obsessives would know and which this site specialises in. (i write this to explain my 'like' in case it appears to refer to her who I find witless)
Nah, you can find it out quite easily by reading the Wikipedia article (which I presume PB members have been helping to write, I have made one or two small edits myself)
Which US politician just said this ? (Without googling.)
Hey so marching into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and leading with a chant saying “we support Hamas” is a disgusting and antisemitic thing to do.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
P.S. Sky are wrong to edit out the swearing. The swearing confirms intent.
Is it really good enough for Keir Starmer to call for the Iranian regime to use restraint? Showing restraint is what you might rebuke Trump and his immigration enforcement unit for not doing. Shouldn't we be telling Iran to listen to their people's concerns?
Iran has supported the biggest military aggression in Europe since 1945. What punishment has Europe inflicted as a result of this? This is why Trump thinks he can extort us. We're weak, weak, weak.
What is this 'biggest military aggression in Europe since 1945'?
Where exactly have you been for the last 4 years?
That's what I thought. I was just wondering why he was pinning it on Iran? If he means cheering for them then surely a stiff letter would seem more appropriate?
OT. For those who have the time Mamdani being interviewed by a variety of interviewers on his second day as Mayor of New York. Not since Blair in his prime have I heard such a skilled politician.
No, not an 'um' to be heard. Had his facts at his fingertips.
Not to say that isn't the case here, Mandami may well be a very knowledgeable chap for all I know, but the use of filler words does not necessarily mean people don't have the facts at their fingertips, indeed it is a rare person who can speak eloquently at length without them even on a subject of which they know a great deal.
It's one reason actors can often appear to be better informed on a subject than they are, because they can speak with great confidence and charisma even if they know little.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
The one on Thursday was too many. Is it simply a contest about the number of fatalities anyway?
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
They were having a calm exchange until Renee's wife told him to "got get yourself some lunch, big boy", which so antagonised him he had no choice but to make her a widow.
Summary execution of a woman is the only reasonable reaction when that woman's spouse is slightly rude to you. It's you or her, the only way it could have gone down.
Men are afraid women will laugh at them; women are afraid men will kill them.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Europe is, as usual, a bit off the pace. "Turns hostile?"
There's a lot of denial about it. Ok, no one wants to overreact, but at a point you have to accept that the USA means what it says through its leaders, and 45-50% of its voters are fully behind that. That means Europe cannot act as though things have not changed, that the contempt or even aggression from the current administration is just 'trolling, or that it will all be ok when (if) the administration ever changes.
The UK is in an even trickier position due to be more closely entwined with the USA, yet held in just as much contempt.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
The american justice system is a firm believer in the principle that if someone stands on your toe, intentionally or otherwise, you should cut off their head in response just in case, so long as you wear a badge.
The idea of proportionate responses is for tree hugging pussies.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Sober thought
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
I think some of the tokens of democracy will remain in some form but it has become a kleptocracy similar to that of Russia and, like Russia, is now seeking the aggregation of the right to kill people at will. As always the Anne Applebaum contribution linked to below is well worth listening to.
There are many, many reasons for this but if I was to point my finger in one direction it would be at the SC. These corrupt fools have completely abrogated their duties as protectors of the constitution and the separation of powers. They have done irreparable damage.
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
I've heard there is some illness that elderly people may suffer which causes them to behave like that.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
The american justice system is a firm believer in the principle that if someone stands on your toe, intentionally or otherwise, you should cut off their head in response just in case, so long as you wear a badge.
The idea of proportionate responses is for tree hugging pussies.
Which also means people can now shoot at ICE if they fear for their lives
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
OTOH, comparisons with say, Robert Mugabe, would not be unreasonable.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
The american justice system is a firm believer in the principle that if someone stands on your toe, intentionally or otherwise, you should cut off their head in response just in case, so long as you wear a badge.
The idea of proportionate responses is for tree hugging pussies.
Which also means people can now shoot at ICE if they fear for their lives
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
Unless those people think there is a significant chance of their actually being caught and prosecuted, the severity of the sentence is unlikely to have much effect. For instance, take your example of driving: I would suggest that almost nobody adjusts their behaviour based on the penalties for careless driving -- they merely don't think it could ever possibly happen to them or apply to them.
Maybe. But I think you are overlooking the effect of a number of ordinary middling sorts going direct to prison without passing Go. A parallel of sorts is the combined criminal and social pressures which have reduced drink driving among the ordinarily law abiding. Thirty years ago lots of people would 'take a chance'. Fewer now.
Also, all of us could and would get away with shop lifting but the overwhelming majority don't, and don't even think of doing so.
(Speaking of which, do any older PBers recall the old days of Foyles, the great bookshop in Charing Cross Road when it was literally much easier to steal a book than it was to buy it.)
Yes, I do recall! I seem to remember selecting a volume, queuing up to be given some kind of voucher, and then going to another desk where I submitted the voucher and then was allowed to pay. Something like that, anyway. Maybe 1980s? The utter disregard for customer service was rather splendid.
They had that system in the GUM store in Red Square in the 80's. Only it was bread that was on offer.
This shows why Putin remains popular despite the SMO. Within living memory, Russians were queueing for bread. Now, some brands are a bit harder to buy than before sanctions.
So really despite his dislike of the relative loss of prestige, he's insulated to a degree because of just how stupidly crap the Soviet Union was (despite nostalgists for it in the West making a bit of a comeback).
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
The american justice system is a firm believer in the principle that if someone stands on your toe, intentionally or otherwise, you should cut off their head in response just in case, so long as you wear a badge.
The idea of proportionate responses is for tree hugging pussies.
Which also means people can now shoot at ICE if they fear for their lives
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Sober thought
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
I think some of the tokens of democracy will remain in some form but it has become a kleptocracy similar to that of Russia and, like Russia, is now seeking the aggregation of the right to kill people at will. As always the Anne Applebaum contribution linked to below is well worth listening to.
There are many, many reasons for this but if I was to point my finger in one direction it would be at the SC. These corrupt fools have completely abrogated their duties as protectors of the constitution and the separation of powers. They have done irreparable damage.
Maybe Trump read Applebaum's book and took the wrong message from it?
They were having a calm exchange until Renee's wife told him to "got get yourself some lunch, big boy", which so antagonised him he had no choice but to make her a widow.
Yes, that is the moment Mr Ross decided someone was going to die, hence the phone being exchanged from his right to his left hand. At that point he probably hadn't decided who.
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
The one on Thursday was too many. Is it simply a contest about the number of fatalities anyway?
Every single one is one too many and thuggish law enforcement is no new thing in the USA.
Neither is people being killed as the consequence of a gun owning society.
And if people want to throw around the 'Nazi Stormtrooper' claims there does need to be a comparison as to the numbers.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
This is nuts. I live in rural Surrey, but let's be honest Surrey is also pretty built up so I imagine most of the countryside is worse for roundabouts than where I live, but lets just take the lane I live on:
It has a roundabout at one end so let's assume we are going in the other direction. It is 2 miles long. It then reaches a cross roads. To the left you have to drive about 4 miles to a roundabout (which you may not know is there). Straight on is a narrow lane of about a mile with a T junction at the end. At that junction you can turn left or right. If you turn left you have about 5 miles to another T junction. At that junction you can turn left and eventually come to a roundabout in a mile. If you turn right I can't even think where there is a roundabout. Going back to the last junction if you turn right you come to another junction after about 2 miles. You can turn right and come to a roundabout after 3 miles. If you turn left after 2 miles you come to another junction. The next roundabout is about 7 miles away. Finally going back to the first junction if you turn right after 2 miles there is a junction. I can't think of where there is another roundabout either left or right on that road.
Your suggestion is nuts.
You are also wrong on speed limits for country lanes. You should be driving at a speed appropriate for the road, car and conditions. I am currently taking my Advanced Driving lessons for IAM. They are really hot on not exceeding the speed limits, but also hot on not progressing and I was told I was driving too slow for the conditions on my last lesson. People driving too slow for the conditions are also very dangerous.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Sober thought
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
I've had this conversation with American tourists here in the Cotswolds last summer. It is generally agreed that democracy is 'the big one'. The general view was that it was probably ok, but six months on it is looking rather shakier.
I doubt many Americans are treating the matter lightly now, apart of course from those who don't much care for democracy.
I do seriously think people underestimated the damage Jan 6th did to the US, just because it did not succeed. The idea that you accept the results of elections was fundamentally undermined, many of his fans similarly refused to concede in other races afterwards, and whilst that didn't change the transfer of powers in those cases, the idea that you no longer accept the opposition as legitimate is a very very dangerous one and antithetical to democratic states - and I don't doubt some Democrats now feel that way about any GOP wins, these things spread.
Edit: And no, legal challenges to election issues is not the same thing - he had many dozens, and IIRC only 1 out of any raised any legitimate point, and it has not stopped him insisting he won in 2020.
Is it really good enough for Keir Starmer to call for the Iranian regime to use restraint? Showing restraint is what you might rebuke Trump and his immigration enforcement unit for not doing. Shouldn't we be telling Iran to listen to their people's concerns?
Iran has supported the biggest military aggression in Europe since 1945. What punishment has Europe inflicted as a result of this? This is why Trump thinks he can extort us. We're weak, weak, weak.
What is this 'biggest military aggression in Europe since 1945'?
Where exactly have you been for the last 4 years?
That's what I thought. I was just wondering why he was pinning it on Iran? If he means cheering for them then surely a stiff letter would seem more appropriate?
Well they've been supplying Russia with drones, other munitions, training and, allegedly, some drone operators deployed in combat
Europe is, as usual, a bit off the pace. "Turns hostile?"
There's a lot of denial about it. Ok, no one wants to overreact, but at a point you have to accept that the USA means what it says through its leaders, and 45-50% of its voters are fully behind that. That means Europe cannot act as though things have not changed, that the contempt or even aggression from the current administration is just 'trolling, or that it will all be ok when (if) the administration ever changes.
The UK is in an even trickier position due to be more closely entwined with the USA, yet held in just as much contempt.
Part of Trump's behaviour ought to be seen in the context of his declining ratings. Things went badly in November and will go badly in the November mid terms on current trends. The Venezuela action doesn't seem popular and annexing Greenland certainly wouldn't be. However the one thing people give him credit for is border control.
I don't think comparisons with Russia are that helpful. It took years for Putin to silence dissent and even before that Russia was never a model democracy either.
They were having a calm exchange until Renee's wife told him to "got get yourself some lunch, big boy", which so antagonised him he had no choice but to make her a widow.
Yes, that is the moment Mr Ross decided someone was going to die, hence the phone being exchanged from his right to his left hand. At that point he probably hadn't decided who.
Police in all forms hate being mocked, and often respond aggressively when people do so. Even if people simply challenge them they hate it, you see that with British police as well Americans ones, and no doubt in many other places. Even when the officers are totally incorrect, or give contradictory commands, police despise being corrected.
When both citizen and police officer may (or almost certainly are, in the latter case) be armed it's almost inevitable that situations are going to escalate unnecessarily in such scenarios.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Sober thought
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
I think some of the tokens of democracy will remain in some form but it has become a kleptocracy similar to that of Russia and, like Russia, is now seeking the aggregation of the right to kill people at will. As always the Anne Applebaum contribution linked to below is well worth listening to.
There are many, many reasons for this but if I was to point my finger in one direction it would be at the SC. These corrupt fools have completely abrogated their duties as protectors of the constitution and the separation of powers. They have done irreparable damage.
The deliberate basis of the American constitution was that the three branches of Congress, Executive and Judiciary would keep each other in check. It was stalemate for a long time but now Congress and the judiciary (at least the Supreme Court) have abdicated their responsibilities so the Executive can do whatever it wants with no checks and balances.
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
"Stormtrooper" normally refers to the SA street thugs, not to the Einsatzgruppen. A reasonable analogy, although as far as I know the SA weren't paid by the Reich.
Officer Ross’s actions are horrific, but what’s terrifying, what looks like fascism, is that the Trump administration are just flat out denying there’s a problem. They’re not saying, oh, he's innocent until proven guilty, but we’ll do an investigation. No. She was, they state, a “domestic terrorist”. Reality is whatever they say it is.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
My 23 mile route to work (all A roads) has a 2 roundabouts, both about half a mile from my house. I think the nearest roundabout to work is about 5 miles away.
I took my driving test in Bala, in North Wales. No roundabout on the test as it was about 20 miles to the nearest one. They did however test you on how to drive single track roads with passing places, and also expected you to be able to pass a vehicle coming the other way on a narrowish road without slowing down much if there was sufficient room (you could fail by stopping unnecessarily for something coming the other way).
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
The american justice system is a firm believer in the principle that if someone stands on your toe, intentionally or otherwise, you should cut off their head in response just in case, so long as you wear a badge.
The idea of proportionate responses is for tree hugging pussies.
Which also means people can now shoot at ICE if they fear for their lives
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Sober thought
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
I think some of the tokens of democracy will remain in some form but it has become a kleptocracy similar to that of Russia and, like Russia, is now seeking the aggregation of the right to kill people at will. As always the Anne Applebaum contribution linked to below is well worth listening to.
There are many, many reasons for this but if I was to point my finger in one direction it would be at the SC. These corrupt fools have completely abrogated their duties as protectors of the constitution and the separation of powers. They have done irreparable damage.
The deliberate basis of the American constitution was that the three branches of Congress, Executive and Judiciary would keep each other in check. It was stalemate for a long time but now Congress and the judiciary (at least the Supreme Court) have abdicated their responsibilities so the Executive can do whatever it wants with no checks and balances.
The constitution has completely failed.
Held up well for a long time. The SC immunity decision took a lot of people by surprise in how broad it was, and I have little doubt they'll row it back a little when a Democrat is in office.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
A problem Google Maps struggles with multiple times a second…
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
#fritlf prize for Saturday. Congrats.
It would be much easier to join the PB chorus.
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
Oh really? Miss an overtaking motorcyclist doing a u turn on a 50 or 60mph rural limit and that is you done for death or serious injury by careless driving despite doing a currently legal manouevre
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Sober thought
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
I think some of the tokens of democracy will remain in some form but it has become a kleptocracy similar to that of Russia and, like Russia, is now seeking the aggregation of the right to kill people at will. As always the Anne Applebaum contribution linked to below is well worth listening to.
There are many, many reasons for this but if I was to point my finger in one direction it would be at the SC. These corrupt fools have completely abrogated their duties as protectors of the constitution and the separation of powers. They have done irreparable damage.
Maybe Trump read Applebaum's book and took the wrong message from it?
Europe is, as usual, a bit off the pace. "Turns hostile?"
There's a lot of denial about it. Ok, no one wants to overreact, but at a point you have to accept that the USA means what it says through its leaders, and 45-50% of its voters are fully behind that. That means Europe cannot act as though things have not changed, that the contempt or even aggression from the current administration is just 'trolling, or that it will all be ok when (if) the administration ever changes.
The UK is in an even trickier position due to be more closely entwined with the USA, yet held in just as much contempt.
Part of Trump's behaviour ought to be seen in the context of his declining ratings. Things went badly in November and will go badly in the November mid terms on current trends. The Venezuela action doesn't seem popular and annexing Greenland certainly wouldn't be.
That may be true, but some people use that as reason for believing he won't actually do certain things, even as he and his Cabinet say very clearly they will, or might, because he wouldn't be that crazy, it's because he is seeking distractions etc.
He would, he could, and he might. And Vance definitely would if he was in power I think, he seems less likely to be diverted by some other issues as Trump might.
Europe is, as usual, a bit off the pace. "Turns hostile?"
There's a lot of denial about it. Ok, no one wants to overreact, but at a point you have to accept that the USA means what it says through its leaders, and 45-50% of its voters are fully behind that. That means Europe cannot act as though things have not changed, that the contempt or even aggression from the current administration is just 'trolling, or that it will all be ok when (if) the administration ever changes.
The UK is in an even trickier position due to be more closely entwined with the USA, yet held in just as much contempt.
Indeed, it may turn out to be fortunate for the EU that the UK did leave.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
The american justice system is a firm believer in the principle that if someone stands on your toe, intentionally or otherwise, you should cut off their head in response just in case, so long as you wear a badge.
The idea of proportionate responses is for tree hugging pussies.
Which also means people can now shoot at ICE if they fear for their lives
I think you missed “so long as you wear a badge”.
Well, citizens have a lot of leeway too on 'self defence', but not pre-emptively against police.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
Oh really? Miss an overtaking motorcyclist doing a u turn on a 50 or 60mph rural limit and that is you done for death or serious injury by careless driving despite doing a currently legal manouevre
You do know that roundabouts are the scene of many accidents and it simply doesn't matter where you turn, if you are negligent you are liable
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
This is nuts. I live in rural Surrey, but let's be honest Surrey is also pretty built up so I imagine most of the countryside is worse for roundabouts than where I live, but lets just take the lane I live on:
It has a roundabout at one end so let's assume we are going in the other direction. It is 2 miles long. It then reaches a cross roads. To the left you have to drive about 4 miles to a roundabout (which you may not know is there). Straight on is a narrow lane of about a mile with a T junction at the end. At that junction you can turn left or right. If you turn left you have about 5 miles to another T junction. At that junction you can turn left and eventually come to a roundabout in a mile. If you turn right I can't even think where there is a roundabout. Going back to the last junction if you turn right you come to another junction after about 2 miles. You can turn right and come to a roundabout after 3 miles. If you turn left after 2 miles you come to another junction. The next roundabout is about 7 miles away. Finally going back to the first junction if you turn right after 2 miles there is a junction. I can't think of where there is another roundabout either left or right on that road.
Your suggestion is nuts.
You are also wrong on speed limits for country lanes. You should be driving at a speed appropriate for the road, car and conditions. I am currently taking my Advanced Driving lessons for IAM. They are really hot on not exceeding the speed limits, but also hot on not progressing and I was told I was driving too slow for the conditions on my last lesson. People driving too slow for the conditions are also very dangerous.
Fine, then take the risk of being done for death or serious injury by careless driving if you do said u turn on a rural road and won't wait until the next roundabout or village.
The speed limit on country lanes is 60mph.
'Driving at a speed appropriate for the road, car and conditions' is a totally subjective term. One man's 'appropriate speed' may be 55mph, another 20mph on the same road and same conditions, even if approaching a bend it is completely vague guidance. As you say you can be accused of going too slow as well as too fast
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
#fritlf prize for Saturday. Congrats.
It would be much easier to join the PB chorus.
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Manichaen groupthink.
You are the only one talking about the first three.
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
#fritlf prize for Saturday. Congrats.
It would be much easier to join the PB chorus.
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
Oh really? Miss an overtaking motorcyclist doing a u turn on a 50 or 60mph rural limit and that is you done for death or serious injury by careless driving despite doing a currently legal manouevre
You do know that roundabouts are the scene of many accidents and it simply doesn't matter where you turn, if you are negligent you are liable
Admittedly lots of accidents with motorcyclists not being seen by drivers at roundabouts too but at least there you don't have to wait for a gap both ways as in a main road
They were having a calm exchange until Renee's wife told him to "got get yourself some lunch, big boy", which so antagonised him he had no choice but to make her a widow.
And then he took her advice and drove off for some lunch.
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
"Stormtrooper" normally refers to the SA street thugs, not to the Einsatzgruppen. A reasonable analogy, although as far as I know the SA weren't paid by the Reich.
An analogy which doesn't then equate to ICE as the SA were a political organisation not a government organisation.
Not to mention that the SA were themselves purged and disbanded soon after Hitler entered government.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Sober thought
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
The ability for power to be misused and democracy to be subverted, with those already aware of what is going on made impotent to do anything about it, is a repeated lesson from history. For example, go read Evans’s acclaimed “The Third Reich in Power” and see how the Nazis, despite not having majority support nor complete control of Germany’s legislature, managed to take almost complete control of both the state and civil society within less than a year.
Rachel Reeves faces tax rise dilemma over immigration forecast. Chancellor could be forced to make up for a shortfall of billions of pounds as figures predict a collapse in net migration would have consequences for the economy
The OBR have included possibly overestimated immigration numbers in their fiscal forecast. If immigration does drop it will lead to a relative underperformance of the economy and a possible £20 billion hole in public finances.
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
#fritlf prize for Saturday. Congrats.
It would be much easier to join the PB chorus.
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Manichaen groupthink.
You are the only one talking about the first three.
They are also all very domestic US talking points. That our UK discussions get clogged up with this sort of thing, including blanket coverage every time a US uniformed thug does what US uniformed thugs always do, is thanks to our force-fed American social media diet.
Twitter is the goose farm and we’re the geese, there for the delectation of a handful of billionaires who like gorging on our foie gras.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
Oh really? Miss an overtaking motorcyclist doing a u turn on a 50 or 60mph rural limit and that is you done for death or serious injury by careless driving despite doing a currently legal manouevre
You do know that roundabouts are the scene of many accidents and it simply doesn't matter where you turn, if you are negligent you are liable
Admittedly lots of accidents with motorcyclists not being seen by drivers at roundabouts too but at least there you don't have to wait for a gap both ways as in a main road
Please hand your driving licence in to your nearest DVLA office.
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
#fritlf prize for Saturday. Congrats.
It would be much easier to join the PB chorus.
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Manichaen groupthink.
Calm down dear.
#nocomparisonbetweensleepyjoeandtrump
Of course there's a comparison.
Biden was senile and Trump is demented.
Neither should have been President and both lacked control of their administrations.
And the cheerleaders of each continually denied their unfitness for office.
Rachel Reeves faces tax rise dilemma over immigration forecast. Chancellor could be forced to make up for a shortfall of billions of pounds as figures predict a collapse in net migration would have consequences for the economy
The OBR have included possibly overestimated immigration numbers in their fiscal forecast. If immigration does drop it will lead to a relative underperformance of the economy and a possible £20 billion hole in public finances.
A relatively Farage-proof response to that would be the much touted EU youth mobility scheme.
Europe is, as usual, a bit off the pace. "Turns hostile?"
There's a lot of denial about it. Ok, no one wants to overreact, but at a point you have to accept that the USA means what it says through its leaders, and 45-50% of its voters are fully behind that. That means Europe cannot act as though things have not changed, that the contempt or even aggression from the current administration is just 'trolling, or that it will all be ok when (if) the administration ever changes.
The UK is in an even trickier position due to be more closely entwined with the USA, yet held in just as much contempt.
Indeed, it may turn out to be fortunate for the EU USA that the UK did leave.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
Oh really? Miss an overtaking motorcyclist doing a u turn on a 50 or 60mph rural limit and that is you done for death or serious injury by careless driving despite doing a currently legal manouevre
You do know that roundabouts are the scene of many accidents and it simply doesn't matter where you turn, if you are negligent you are liable
Admittedly lots of accidents with motorcyclists not being seen by drivers at roundabouts too but at least there you don't have to wait for a gap both ways as in a main road
The simple truth is if you are negligent then you face the consquences
I have driven for 64 years without an accident or traffic offence including even parking
I also drove extensively in Europe even to Venice
I am proud of my record and hope I haven't tempted fate
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
#fritlf prize for Saturday. Congrats.
It would be much easier to join the PB chorus.
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Manichaen groupthink.
Calm down dear.
#nocomparisonbetweensleepyjoeandtrump
Of course there's a comparison.
Biden was senile and Trump is demented.
Neither should have been President and both lacked control of their administrations.
And the cheerleaders of each continually denied their unfitness for office.
Biden is a doddery, old fool
Trump is a dangerously unhinged, doddery, old fool
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
#fritlf prize for Saturday. Congrats.
It would be much easier to join the PB chorus.
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Manichaen groupthink.
Calm down dear.
#nocomparisonbetweensleepyjoeandtrump
Of course there's a comparison.
Biden was senile and Trump is demented.
Neither should have been President and both lacked control of their administrations.
And the cheerleaders of each continually denied their unfitness for office.
Which is relevant now? Is it the one that is currently President? Which matters more: something that is happening now or something that stopped 2 years ago?
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Sober thought
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
The ability for power to be misused and democracy to be subverted, with those already aware of what is going on made impotent to do anything about it, is a repeated lesson from history. For example, go read Evans’s acclaimed “The Third Reich in Power” and see how the Nazis, despite not having majority support nor complete control of Germany’s legislature, managed to take almost complete control of both the state and civil society within less than a year.
No need for Nazi comparisons. We have the neat contemporary reference case in Turkey to act as a guide.
There is absolutely nothing that can excuse the killing of Ms Good
This comment piece by Sky's US correspondent provides some insight
An Independent enquiry should be launched but that simply will not happen in Trump's US
As I said yesterday, the ICE officer seemed to panic and lost it which by any definition is unacceptable and possibly speaks to the lack of training
Martha Kelner - US correspondent - Sky News
'This video is only 47 seconds long, a close-up perspective, but it has unlocked even more questions about how and why Renee Nicole Good died.
It is tragic in the sense that it shows the face and demeanour of a 37-year-old woman in the moments before she dies, filmed by the person who shot her.
But I don’t think the footage provides any certainty about those crucial final few seconds, during which Good puts her car into drive, turns her wheel, accelerates and is then shot at three times by the officer.
What is clear is that there is dialogue between the pair in the run-up. Good seems to be relatively calm, when she says "that's fine, dude, I'm not mad at you".
Another woman, who appears to be Good's wife, seems to take a mocking tone with the officer when she says "go get lunch, big boy".
The audio from the phone camera is distorted at the key moment. There is a sound that could indicate a collision between the car and the officer but, again, that is not certain.
He definitely remains on his feet and at the end, appears to say "f***ing bitch".
The reaction to this video shows how entrenched views are on both sides of the political aisle. The vice president says it proves the officer's "life was endangered". Democrats continue to maintain she was "murdered".
In this country there is no time to wait for a full investigation in the rush to reach a conclusion and it could be very dangerous.
At this point, the agent exclaims in shock and shoots multiple times.
As Ms Good's car careers down the road before crashing into parked cars, the agent appears to mutter "f***ing bitch".
Sky News has chosen not to air the swear words in the video.'
Big G, a moment after the passenger says "go get lunch, big boy" is when he unholsters his side arm. The only dispute regarding "did she drive at him?" arises from the distant grainy footage from some considerable way behind the maroon Honda Pilot. All other footage confirms she drove at 1 or 2 mph, right hand down, away from Officer Ross, If he is brushed by the car it is after he has shot her three times and she has released the steering wheel because she is dead and the car accelerates because dead people can't regulate the speed on an automatic car.
In some respects what happens next is even more chilling.
The whole thing is chilling, but you can see why the case should be tried in court but is that going to happen ?
Not in Trump's US I expect
Trump will most likely commend him.
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
It doesn't require much analysis. An out of control official in an out of control organisation overreacted to some mild provocation. It's murder, in normal language.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Sober thought
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
The ability for power to be misused and democracy to be subverted, with those already aware of what is going on made impotent to do anything about it, is a repeated lesson from history. For example, go read Evans’s acclaimed “The Third Reich in Power” and see how the Nazis, despite not having majority support nor complete control of Germany’s legislature, managed to take almost complete control of both the state and civil society within less than a year.
The Nazis won the most seats in the German parliament and legislature in the Reichstag elections in 1932 and 1933.
Trump won the US presidential election in 2024 in both the popular vote and EC and the GOP won Congress.
Hitler and Trump came to power via democracy, not a military coup with no votes, even if you with good reason vehemently dislike them.
Now when Hitler cancelled elections after he became Fuhrer democracy ended in Germany but he still came to power via democracy.
If Trump cancelled the midterms democracy might be ending in the US too but that is unlikely and would only be achieved with military rule and a police state and not without constant mass riots if not near civil war
Europe is, as usual, a bit off the pace. "Turns hostile?"
There's a lot of denial about it. Ok, no one wants to overreact, but at a point you have to accept that the USA means what it says through its leaders, and 45-50% of its voters are fully behind that. That means Europe cannot act as though things have not changed, that the contempt or even aggression from the current administration is just 'trolling, or that it will all be ok when (if) the administration ever changes.
The UK is in an even trickier position due to be more closely entwined with the USA, yet held in just as much contempt.
Indeed, it may turn out to be fortunate for the EU USA that the UK did leave.
FTFY
Seems to me that the USA is making its own 'luck' regardless of anything happening elsewhere.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
Oh really? Miss an overtaking motorcyclist doing a u turn on a 50 or 60mph rural limit and that is you done for death or serious injury by careless driving despite doing a currently legal manouevre
You do know that roundabouts are the scene of many accidents and it simply doesn't matter where you turn, if you are negligent you are liable
Admittedly lots of accidents with motorcyclists not being seen by drivers at roundabouts too but at least there you don't have to wait for a gap both ways as in a main road
The simple truth is if you are negligent then you face the consquences
I have driven for 64 years without an accident or traffic offence including even parking
I also drove extensively in Europe even to Venice
I am proud of my record and hope I haven't tempted fate
Good for you and your candidature for driving sainthood is in the post.
Most drivers however have had at least one accident or traffic fine and we need the law and highway code to be clearer on things like rural speed limits and speed limits approaching bends for starters to reduce those incidents
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
#fritlf prize for Saturday. Congrats.
It would be much easier to join the PB chorus.
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Manichaen groupthink.
Calm down dear.
#nocomparisonbetweensleepyjoeandtrump
Of course there's a comparison.
Biden was senile and Trump is demented.
Neither should have been President and both lacked control of their administrations.
And the cheerleaders of each continually denied their unfitness for office.
To an extent you have a point, but I would say on a very low bar Biden was far more cogent than Trump and as such far less dangerous.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
Oh really? Miss an overtaking motorcyclist doing a u turn on a 50 or 60mph rural limit and that is you done for death or serious injury by careless driving despite doing a currently legal manouevre
You do know that roundabouts are the scene of many accidents and it simply doesn't matter where you turn, if you are negligent you are liable
Admittedly lots of accidents with motorcyclists not being seen by drivers at roundabouts too but at least there you don't have to wait for a gap both ways as in a main road
The simple truth is if you are negligent then you face the consquences
I have driven for 64 years without an accident or traffic offence including even parking
I also drove extensively in Europe even to Venice
I am proud of my record and hope I haven't tempted fate
Kudos for driving to Venice. I did that back in October, taking the dog to a lunch in one of my favourite canalside spots, down towards the Arsenale. When you reach the end of the causeway, nowadays the competition to get parking in either Pzza Roma or Tronchetto is almost a spectator sport.
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
#fritlf prize for Saturday. Congrats.
It would be much easier to join the PB chorus.
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Manichaen groupthink.
Calm down dear.
#nocomparisonbetweensleepyjoeandtrump
Of course there's a comparison.
Biden was senile and Trump is demented.
Neither should have been President and both lacked control of their administrations.
And the cheerleaders of each continually denied their unfitness for office.
Biden is a doddery, old fool
Trump is a dangerously unhinged, doddery, old fool
The thing about dementia is the extent to which it reveals; putting on a facade requires an awful lot of cognitive effort.
Doddery Joe was revealed to be a doddery, broadly well-meaning patriot.
Doodery Don is being revealed as a doddery pile of hatred and greed.
Very amusing, Ian, but it is such mockery that fuels the visceral hatred that Magaland has for the Libtards.
Maybe the Greenlanders do hanker for a McDonalds on both sides of the street, saving them the effort of having to cross the road, who knows?
With what's going on now in the US, we are well beyond the point where anyone wishing to mock needs to exercise any restraint.
Sadly you are wrong.
The deliberate leaking of bodycam footage of Renee Good verbally abusing a clearly unhinged Officer Ross with a smile on her face moments before he executed her, because he could, is a salutary warning that ordinary people (with children's toys in the glovebox of their Honda) are not immune to a bloody and violent end if they dissent. They want you to see the blood, the performative cruelty, the refusal of life saving medical assistance, and Officer Ross driving off from what under any circumstance would be a crime scene without a care in the World.
I've seen these videos where an genuine police officers intent on tasing a suspect, accidentally pulls out the Glock and they are inconsolable on realising the error. An error that ultimately leads to a custodial sentence for manslaughter. Officer Ross, an overweight thug with a marine style haircut, has no such qualms, casually sauntering over to the car and on seeing the carnage he has caused nonchalantly strides back towards his colleagues, and after a minute or so suggests someone calls 911 before driving off for his coffee and pancakes.
As Time Walz implied people really do need to exercise restraint, because these f****** will respond with no restraint whatsoever.
I wasn't recommending flying out to some red state and mocking them in person. Maybe you misunderstood?
I have given false information. This is not bodycam footage but cellphone footage from Officer Ross. After Jonathan Ross has an altercation with the passenger on the passenger side of the car he changes hands with his phone so he can unholster his side arm. I suspect this is the moment he decided he was going on the ultimate thug adrenaline trip and kill a fellow human being.
Oh and immediately after he kills her he calls her a "fucking bitch".
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
OTOH, comparisons with say, Robert Mugabe, would not be unreasonable.
Or even stick with Germany but say that we're at about 1935ish. We've had the SC decision on immunity which is a bit like the Enabling Act, and Trump is complaining about needing more lebensraum, and it might all be too late to stop already ?
Europe is, as usual, a bit off the pace. "Turns hostile?"
There's a lot of denial about it. Ok, no one wants to overreact, but at a point you have to accept that the USA means what it says through its leaders, and 45-50% of its voters are fully behind that. That means Europe cannot act as though things have not changed, that the contempt or even aggression from the current administration is just 'trolling, or that it will all be ok when (if) the administration ever changes.
The UK is in an even trickier position due to be more closely entwined with the USA, yet held in just as much contempt.
Indeed, it may turn out to be fortunate for the EU USA that the UK did leave.
FTFY
Seems to me that the USA is making its own 'luck' regardless of anything happening elsewhere.
Officer Ross’s actions are horrific, but what’s terrifying, what looks like fascism, is that the Trump administration are just flat out denying there’s a problem. They’re not saying, oh, he's innocent until proven guilty, but we’ll do an investigation. No. She was, they state, a “domestic terrorist”. Reality is whatever they say it is.
Yes, the reaction of the regime is the part which tips this over into fascism. Disregard the evidence of your eyes and ears and listen to what we are telling you actually took place. Anyone who disagrees with us is a violent terrorist at best, a seditious traitor at worst.
Things are now sliding downhill fast. They do not look like a regime planning to voluntarily face defeat.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
Oh really? Miss an overtaking motorcyclist doing a u turn on a 50 or 60mph rural limit and that is you done for death or serious injury by careless driving despite doing a currently legal manouevre
You do know that roundabouts are the scene of many accidents and it simply doesn't matter where you turn, if you are negligent you are liable
Admittedly lots of accidents with motorcyclists not being seen by drivers at roundabouts too but at least there you don't have to wait for a gap both ways as in a main road
The simple truth is if you are negligent then you face the consquences
I have driven for 64 years without an accident or traffic offence including even parking
I also drove extensively in Europe even to Venice
I am proud of my record and hope I haven't tempted fate
My wife was very intrepid as a student. She couldn't afford the flight for her Erasmus year in Parma so she drove down in her 18 year old Morris 1300 Traveller.
Elon says that turning off his exploitative porn generator (formerly known as Twitter) would be unjustified censorship
"I disapprove of people generating abusive porn featuring unconsenting adults and children at the push of a button but I will defend to the death their right to do so ... if it makes me money"
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
It can but even if careless driving leads to death or serious injury in most cases the sentence will be a community order or suspended sentence. Only if the driver killed under the influence of drink of drugs would an immediate prison sentence be likely.
We also should be considering changing highway laws to reduce speed limits on rural roads, narrow tracks and at bends or banning u turns or 3 point turns except in quiet residential streets as a lot of what would be mere careless driving could still be doing a currently legal manoeuvre
Just how are people supposed to turn round if they miss a junction or take a wrong turn?
Wait until they reach the next roundabout
You clearly haven't driven on many rural roads. What's a roundabout?
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
As soon as you reach a bigger A road you will reach a roundabout, or wait until the next village and turn round in a quiet residential road there.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
You really do talk 'tosh' at times
Oh really? Miss an overtaking motorcyclist doing a u turn on a 50 or 60mph rural limit and that is you done for death or serious injury by careless driving despite doing a currently legal manouevre
You do know that roundabouts are the scene of many accidents and it simply doesn't matter where you turn, if you are negligent you are liable
Admittedly lots of accidents with motorcyclists not being seen by drivers at roundabouts too but at least there you don't have to wait for a gap both ways as in a main road
The simple truth is if you are negligent then you face the consquences
I have driven for 64 years without an accident or traffic offence including even parking
I also drove extensively in Europe even to Venice
I am proud of my record and hope I haven't tempted fate
Good for you and your candidature for driving sainthood is in the post.
Most drivers however have had at least one accident or traffic fine and we need the law and highway code to be clearer on things like rural speed limits and speed limits approaching bends for starters to reduce those incidents
I am no saint, but have enjoyed driving and at times long distances especially between my home and the North of Scotland plus my European experiences that provide the learning needed to make a good driver and the two lessons I learned was to drive according to the conditions, and look in the mirrors as much as forward so you are aware of whatever is happening around your car
Trump said "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK?"
Turns out his masked Nazi Stormtroopers can shoot somebody 3 times in the face while recording it on their phone and he wouldn't lose any voters, OK?
His behaviour is becoming more extreme. In part that might be he has to keep escalating to stop the press from having enough time to analyse anything he does (assuming they still want to) and in part because he really does believe he is a God Emperor with no constraints other than the limits of his desires (there are very few limits)
So what's your prediction as to how many Trump's Einsatzgruppen will kill this year ?
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
"Stormtrooper" normally refers to the SA street thugs, not to the Einsatzgruppen. A reasonable analogy, although as far as I know the SA weren't paid by the Reich.
An analogy which doesn't then equate to ICE as the SA were a political organisation not a government organisation.
Not to mention that the SA were themselves purged and disbanded soon after Hitler entered government.
Yes it's inexact, although not as inexact as your assumption that Stormtrooper referred to Einsatzgruppen. And while they may be on the government payroll, they are certainly being used for intimidation of political opponents. There seems to be other elements of a private militia too, such as the fact that they don't seem to deploy in proper uniforms or have professional equipment such as bodycams. Ross's demeanor was completely unprofessional.
A better analogy for the SA would be the people from Jan 6, but they don't seem to have been deployed again. Maybe we will see them at the midterms.
Firstly, I don't really care (but that might be because it's Sultana and Your Party, which is as insignificant as it is amusing) and, secondly, really? Don't the police have better things to be spending their time on?
You've just said my job isn't important.
Investitgating financial crimes is very important.
Anything juicy recently?
Nope, my investigations have mostly centred on cocaine and unsolicited & solicited dick pics.
In my OH's last company, she was asked to ignore the cocaine misuse as the company wouldn't have a sales team left. Your lot must have higher standards.
Just to point out that this is an everyday example of the ridiculous state of affairs where wholesalers in this product are getting 20-25 year sentences while the product is regarded by millions as quotidian and normal.
If demand ceased, so would supply. Either decriminalise or make the user the real criminal, not the hard working trader.
MPs and television presenters have been cancelled over dodgy bants or porn but politics and the media are fuelled by actually illegal drugs. And this illustrates a real problem – the growing gulf between what is acceptable and what is legal.
Coke is now such a naff drug - it’s being hoovered up noses in pubs up and down the country by every man jack and off kitchen counters by bored mums.
Is the answer to be massively illiberal on coke - 1 year in prison, no suspended sentences or anything for possession. Announce it from the rooftops - you are caught with coke, or driving under the influence and you are going to prison for a year so say goodbye to your mid level management job, your kids, your bed. Prepare to be unable to cover your mortgage and lose your home, have a nightmare with a drugs offence when opening accounts or travelling.
Would something this severe smash the casual use? These people aren’t thinking of the chain of poor fuckers down the line working in grim conditions to harvest and produce, those getting killed in the trade so why have any sympathy for the end users?
I’m not sure how I feel about the above but would be an interesting experiment.
Where do you plan to build the extra 3,000 prisons?
This misses the point. The function of mandatory prison sentences is not in order to fill extra prisons but to deter certain actions. I am neutral as between decriminalisation and, OTOH, rational drug law enforcement. What is irrational is to deter traders with 25 year sentences but not deter use in any significant way.
Would not a few dozen otherwise impeccable living middling sorts with wives, children and careers in auto finance and geography teaching going to prison for drug use be enough?
I wonder how many of us are a little more careful about driving now that mere careless driving, if it chances to have certain outcomes, can lead straight to prison?
Unless those people think there is a significant chance of their actually being caught and prosecuted, the severity of the sentence is unlikely to have much effect. For instance, take your example of driving: I would suggest that almost nobody adjusts their behaviour based on the penalties for careless driving -- they merely don't think it could ever possibly happen to them or apply to them.
Maybe. But I think you are overlooking the effect of a number of ordinary middling sorts going direct to prison without passing Go. A parallel of sorts is the combined criminal and social pressures which have reduced drink driving among the ordinarily law abiding. Thirty years ago lots of people would 'take a chance'. Fewer now.
Also, all of us could and would get away with shop lifting but the overwhelming majority don't, and don't even think of doing so.
(Speaking of which, do any older PBers recall the old days of Foyles, the great bookshop in Charing Cross Road when it was literally much easier to steal a book than it was to buy it.)
Yes, I do recall! I seem to remember selecting a volume, queuing up to be given some kind of voucher, and then going to another desk where I submitted the voucher and then was allowed to pay. Something like that, anyway. Maybe 1980s? The utter disregard for customer service was rather splendid.
They had that system in the GUM store in Red Square in the 80's. Only it was bread that was on offer.
This shows why Putin remains popular despite the SMO. Within living memory, Russians were queueing for bread. Now, some brands are a bit harder to buy than before sanctions.
So really despite his dislike of the relative loss of prestige, he's insulated to a degree because of just how stupidly crap the Soviet Union was (despite nostalgists for it in the West making a bit of a comeback).
Basically yes, and especially when the Soviet Union collapsed. Now, it may well be that some reasons have nothing much to do with Putin. Oil prices rose which meant export income rose; Russia, like us, enjoyed the peace dividend; Western firms rushed to invest; and so on. But Putin gets the credit. Putin brought Russia back from the brink.
Comments
https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/westminster-sleaze-drugs-mps-parliament-DWzDfd_2/
Not in Trump's US I expect
Anyway I have seen no evidence that people doing ueys and three point turns are a major cause of road fatalities
I've watched the video footage from Ross' cellphone several times, and there is nothing in it that exonerates him. There is a crucial gap, between her starting to move forward, and then her car crashing. We hear several bangs, one of which might be the car hitting him, but could as easily be a gunshot.
She certainly did not sound like she was spoiling for a fight.
At best, it was a tragic accident, and Ross panicked. At worst, Ross decided to shoot down a woman who had pissed him off. The fact he called her "a fucking bitch", was shown, in other video footage, walking about just fine, and the other agents refused to let a doctor examine her, points to the latter.
Now if you do a legal u turn or 3 point turn in a road with a 40, 50 or 60mph limit and even if you signal and were not on your phone and not over the drink drive limit and had no drugs in your system you can still be done for careless driving causing death or injury if say you hit a motorcylist overtaking a car or a cyclist you didn't see
Interesting choices.
It;'s only a draft at the moment, before anyone gets TOO upset.
I doubt it will go anywhere, and there are certainly examples of poor police investigatory focus, but where would be if we just decided to ignore or not have laws on such things at all?
Edit: Speaking of police resources, what is going on with Nicola Sturgeon's ex? I know financial crimes can be complicated, but it took so damn long for any charges, and it's going to be so long before any trial he will die of old age before anything happens I expect.
Next time Musk comes to UK he should be politely but firmly restrained, then put on the next plane out.
https://x.com/atrupar/status/2009804205981347913
As true now as it was in 1999.
As to 'life was endangered', if memory serves US courts basically give carte blanche on such things, state depending.
Hitler's lot managed 65k in Poland in 1939 alone.
Given that ICE has many more people and has a much bigger population to work in you must be expecting millions of killings.
Or perhaps 'Nazi Stormtroopers' is the sort of imbecilic, manichean terminology which is damaging the USA so badly.
(Without googling.)
Hey so marching into a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and leading with a chant saying “we support Hamas” is a disgusting and antisemitic thing to do.
Pretty basic!
It's one reason actors can often appear to be better informed on a subject than they are, because they can speak with great confidence and charisma even if they know little.
It is up to Americans to do something about this, or they're all fucked.
Are we seeing the end of democracy in the US ?
The UK is in an even trickier position due to be more closely entwined with the USA, yet held in just as much contempt.
The idea of proportionate responses is for tree hugging pussies.
There are many, many reasons for this but if I was to point my finger in one direction it would be at the SC. These corrupt fools have completely abrogated their duties as protectors of the constitution and the separation of powers. They have done irreparable damage.
Contempt of Cop is a capital offence.
https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/455382/autocracy-inc-by-applebaum-anne/9781802062120
Neither is people being killed as the consequence of a gun owning society.
And if people want to throw around the 'Nazi Stormtrooper' claims there does need to be a comparison as to the numbers.
It has a roundabout at one end so let's assume we are going in the other direction. It is 2 miles long. It then reaches a cross roads. To the left you have to drive about 4 miles to a roundabout (which you may not know is there). Straight on is a narrow lane of about a mile with a T junction at the end. At that junction you can turn left or right. If you turn left you have about 5 miles to another T junction. At that junction you can turn left and eventually come to a roundabout in a mile. If you turn right I can't even think where there is a roundabout. Going back to the last junction if you turn right you come to another junction after about 2 miles. You can turn right and come to a roundabout after 3 miles. If you turn left after 2 miles you come to another junction. The next roundabout is about 7 miles away. Finally going back to the first junction if you turn right after 2 miles there is a junction. I can't think of where there is another roundabout either left or right on that road.
Your suggestion is nuts.
You are also wrong on speed limits for country lanes. You should be driving at a speed appropriate for the road, car and conditions. I am currently taking my Advanced Driving lessons for IAM. They are really hot on not exceeding the speed limits, but also hot on not progressing and I was told I was driving too slow for the conditions on my last lesson. People driving too slow for the conditions are also very dangerous.
I doubt many Americans are treating the matter lightly now, apart of course from those who don't much care for democracy.
Edit: And no, legal challenges to election issues is not the same thing - he had many dozens, and IIRC only 1 out of any raised any legitimate point, and it has not stopped him insisting he won in 2020.
I don't think comparisons with Russia are that helpful. It took years for Putin to silence dissent and even before that Russia was never a model democracy either.
When both citizen and police officer may (or almost certainly are, in the latter case) be armed it's almost inevitable that situations are going to escalate unnecessarily in such scenarios.
The constitution has completely failed.
I took my driving test in Bala, in North Wales. No roundabout on the test as it was about 20 miles to the nearest one. They did however test you on how to drive single track roads with passing places, and also expected you to be able to pass a vehicle coming the other way on a narrowish road without slowing down much if there was sufficient room (you could fail by stopping unnecessarily for something coming the other way).
Altogether now:
Joe's always been absent minded, Hunter's a victim of a witch hunt, Vance shags furniture, Nazi Stormtroopers.
Manichaen groupthink.
He would, he could, and he might. And Vance definitely would if he was in power I think, he seems less likely to be diverted by some other issues as Trump might.
The speed limit on country lanes is 60mph.
'Driving at a speed appropriate for the road, car and conditions' is a totally subjective term. One man's 'appropriate speed' may be 55mph, another 20mph on the same road and same conditions, even if approaching a bend it is completely vague guidance. As you say you can be accused of going too slow as well as too fast
#nocomparisonbetweensleepyjoeandtrump
Not to mention that the SA were themselves purged and disbanded soon after Hitler entered government.
https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/rachel-reeves-raise-tax-rise-6w2xvts92
The OBR have included possibly overestimated immigration numbers in their fiscal forecast. If immigration does drop it will lead to a relative underperformance of the economy and a possible £20 billion hole in public finances.
Twitter is the goose farm and we’re the geese, there for the delectation of a handful of billionaires who like gorging on our foie gras.
Biden was senile and Trump is demented.
Neither should have been President and both lacked control of their administrations.
And the cheerleaders of each continually denied their unfitness for office.
I have driven for 64 years without an accident or traffic offence including even parking
I also drove extensively in Europe even to Venice
I am proud of my record and hope I haven't tempted fate
Trump is a dangerously unhinged, doddery, old fool
Trump won the US presidential election in 2024 in both the popular vote and EC and the GOP won Congress.
Hitler and Trump came to power via democracy, not a military coup with no votes, even if you with good reason vehemently dislike them.
Now when Hitler cancelled elections after he became Fuhrer democracy ended in Germany but he still came to power via democracy.
If Trump cancelled the midterms democracy might be ending in the US too but that is unlikely and would only be achieved with military rule and a police state and not without constant mass riots if not near civil war
Most drivers however have had at least one accident or traffic fine and we need the law and highway code to be clearer on things like rural speed limits and speed limits approaching bends for starters to reduce those incidents
Doddery Joe was revealed to be a doddery, broadly well-meaning patriot.
Doodery Don is being revealed as a doddery pile of hatred and greed.
Things are now sliding downhill fast. They do not look like a regime planning to voluntarily face defeat.
A better analogy for the SA would be the people from Jan 6, but they don't seem to have been deployed again. Maybe we will see them at the midterms.