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Note the time and date, Starmer does a funny – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,876
edited January 7 in General
Note the time and date, Starmer does a funny – politicalbetting.com

“Can I begin by saying I hope all colleagues had a happy Christmas. It probably feels quite along time ago now, but not for Reform of course because today is the day that they celebrate Christmas in Russia”Keir Starmer #PMQs pic.twitter.com/tU6MjGL8c5

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Comments

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,033
    Starmer is obviously a sectarian bigot. Imagine making a similar comment about Catholics?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,995

    Starmer is obviously a sectarian bigot. Imagine making a similar comment about Catholics?

    Try harder, William. You're usually funnier than this.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,534

    Starmer is obviously a sectarian bigot. Imagine making a similar comment about Catholics?

    Don't be so low IQ.

    Remember when I called out your anti Catholic bigotry when you said Joe Biden's Catholicism placed Ukraine at risk.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,342
    edited January 7
    A professional tennis match descended into farce when one of the players appeared unable to play even recreational tennis.

    Monday’s match between an unknown Egyptian named Hajar Abdelkader and Lorena Schaedel – a German ranked just outside the world’s top 1,000 – will go down as one of the most one-sided contests in professional tennis history.

    It ended 6-0, 6-0 to Schaedel and lasted 37 minutes, in which the German player conceded three points: two double faults and an unforced error.

    The gulf in quality in the International Tennis Federation-sanctioned W35 event in Nairobi was evident in the warm-up and then early in the match, Abdelkader had to be told by her opponent where she should stand while serving. Abdelkader struggled to serve properly, frequently landing the ball on her side of the court. She landed just eight per cent of her first serves and made 20 double faults in the contest.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2026/01/07/hajar-abdelkader-barely-able-to-play-tennis-in-pro-event/
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,298
    Wolfson recuses himself from advising Badenoch of matters Russian and Ukrainian.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,842
    I’m sure the ‘investigation’ Labour are conducting into foreign influence in UK politics, due to report prior to the local elections, will happily find Reform are wrong uns in bed with Russia and the other parties, irrespective of their past dodgy dealings, are blameless.

    Not partisan at all.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,033

    Starmer is obviously a sectarian bigot. Imagine making a similar comment about Catholics?

    Don't be so low IQ.

    Remember when I called out your anti Catholic bigotry when you said Joe Biden's Catholicism placed Ukraine at risk.
    Yes, ironic that you would make jokes like this:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5415582/#Comment_5415582
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,575

    A professional tennis match descended into farce when one of the players appeared unable to play even recreational tennis.

    Monday’s match between an unknown Egyptian named Hajar Abdelkader and Lorena Schaedel – a German ranked just outside the world’s top 1,000 – will go down as one of the most one-sided contests in professional tennis history.

    It ended 6-0, 6-0 to Schaedel and lasted 37 minutes, in which the German player conceded three points: two double faults and an unforced error.

    The gulf in quality in the International Tennis Federation-sanctioned W35 event in Nairobi was evident in the warm-up and then early in the match, Abdelkader had to be told by her opponent where she should stand while serving. Abdelkader struggled to serve properly, frequently landing the ball on her side of the court. She landed just eight per cent of her first serves and made 20 double faults in the contest.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2026/01/07/hajar-abdelkader-barely-able-to-play-tennis-in-pro-event/

    Shades of that Golf film Phantom of the Open with Mark Rylance.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,842

    A professional tennis match descended into farce when one of the players appeared unable to play even recreational tennis.

    Monday’s match between an unknown Egyptian named Hajar Abdelkader and Lorena Schaedel – a German ranked just outside the world’s top 1,000 – will go down as one of the most one-sided contests in professional tennis history.

    It ended 6-0, 6-0 to Schaedel and lasted 37 minutes, in which the German player conceded three points: two double faults and an unforced error.

    The gulf in quality in the International Tennis Federation-sanctioned W35 event in Nairobi was evident in the warm-up and then early in the match, Abdelkader had to be told by her opponent where she should stand while serving. Abdelkader struggled to serve properly, frequently landing the ball on her side of the court. She landed just eight per cent of her first serves and made 20 double faults in the contest.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2026/01/07/hajar-abdelkader-barely-able-to-play-tennis-in-pro-event/

    It’s happened before.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-66387994
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,641
    Didn’t bother him when his boss was Russia’s useful idiot. Or as it turned out, useless idiot
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,842

    Starmer is obviously a sectarian bigot. Imagine making a similar comment about Catholics?

    Don't be so low IQ.

    Remember when I called out your anti Catholic bigotry when you said Joe Biden's Catholicism placed Ukraine at risk.
    Yes, ironic that you would make jokes like this:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5415582/#Comment_5415582
    Wasn’t that a Blackadder joke ?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,534
    edited January 7

    Starmer is obviously a sectarian bigot. Imagine making a similar comment about Catholics?

    Don't be so low IQ.

    Remember when I called out your anti Catholic bigotry when you said Joe Biden's Catholicism placed Ukraine at risk.
    Yes, ironic that you would make jokes like this:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5415582/#Comment_5415582
    I make jokes about all religions.

    I am not sure you are British if you don’t know that quote is a seminal piece of British comedy.

    Plus, I’ve said I would love to be a Catholic, I think confession would be brilliant for me, I’d get a weekly opportunity to brag about my sins.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,342

    A professional tennis match descended into farce when one of the players appeared unable to play even recreational tennis.

    Monday’s match between an unknown Egyptian named Hajar Abdelkader and Lorena Schaedel – a German ranked just outside the world’s top 1,000 – will go down as one of the most one-sided contests in professional tennis history.

    It ended 6-0, 6-0 to Schaedel and lasted 37 minutes, in which the German player conceded three points: two double faults and an unforced error.

    The gulf in quality in the International Tennis Federation-sanctioned W35 event in Nairobi was evident in the warm-up and then early in the match, Abdelkader had to be told by her opponent where she should stand while serving. Abdelkader struggled to serve properly, frequently landing the ball on her side of the court. She landed just eight per cent of her first serves and made 20 double faults in the contest.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2026/01/07/hajar-abdelkader-barely-able-to-play-tennis-in-pro-event/

    Shades of that Golf film Phantom of the Open with Mark Rylance.
    Some of Maurice Flitcroft aliases were briliant. Arnold Palmtree, Count Manfred von Hoffmenstal, etc.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,298

    Didn’t bother him when his boss was Russia’s useful idiot. Or as it turned out, useless idiot

    Starmer worked for KGB party goer and former Foreign Secretary Johnson?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,342
    edited January 7
    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,534
    Taz said:

    Starmer is obviously a sectarian bigot. Imagine making a similar comment about Catholics?

    Don't be so low IQ.

    Remember when I called out your anti Catholic bigotry when you said Joe Biden's Catholicism placed Ukraine at risk.
    Yes, ironic that you would make jokes like this:

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/5415582/#Comment_5415582
    Wasn’t that a Blackadder joke ?
    Technically it was a Lady Whiteadder joke, except she wasn’t joking.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,842

    Didn’t bother him when his boss was Russia’s useful idiot. Or as it turned out, useless idiot

    Russian influence is an issue now.

    Didn’t stop labour ingratiating themselves with Russians, like Deripaska, or the Tories soliciting a donation from him, or Lebedev being feted or this.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-lords-who-worked-russia-thrown-out-browder-2022-3

    https://eutoday.net/lord-robert-skidelsky/
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,530

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,472
    Polymarket is disputing that the US mission to capture Nicolás Maduro constituted an "invasion", refusing to pay out bets on a contract with $10.5M in wagers (Financial Times)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,318
    I thought Kemi stuck it to Starmer pretty well. Starmer was weak and evasive as he is known to be.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,298
    Taz said:

    I’m sure the ‘investigation’ Labour are conducting into foreign influence in UK politics, due to report prior to the local elections, will happily find Reform are wrong uns in bed with Russia and the other parties, irrespective of their past dodgy dealings, are blameless.

    Not partisan at all.

    I have Nathan Gill on the line from Wormwood Scrubs for you...
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,842

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Eric the Eel actually developed into a pretty competent swimmer too.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,641

    Didn’t bother him when his boss was Russia’s useful idiot. Or as it turned out, useless idiot

    Starmer worked for KGB party goer and former Foreign Secretary Johnson?
    Nah you got the wrong chap there. It’s this one. Late of your parish.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/jeremy-corbyn-russia-must-be-given-nerve-agent-sample-so-they-can-say-if-it-is-theirs

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,274
    He's an absolutely shite PM but on this evidence he might be better suited to that role than that of a stand up comedian.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,995
    Scott_xP said:

    Polymarket is disputing that the US mission to capture Nicolás Maduro constituted an "invasion", refusing to pay out bets on a contract with $10.5M in wagers (Financial Times)

    That seems fair enough. It wasn't an invasion!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,033
    Scott_xP said:

    Polymarket is disputing that the US mission to capture Nicolás Maduro constituted an "invasion", refusing to pay out bets on a contract with $10.5M in wagers (Financial Times)

    Betting markets will end up replacing the UN as the ultimate adjudicators of international law.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,534
    tlg86 said:

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
    Carlton Palmer played for England.

    I’ve always loved that quote by Dave Jones, Palmer’s manager

    ‘Carlton Palmer covers every blade of grass during a match, which is great as his first touch is crap.’
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,727
    edited January 7
    Starmer seems obsessed with Farage and Reform, and I am not at all sure Stramer giving them the publicity is actually harming Farage or his cause as most of it is already known

    That doesn't mean to say I think Farage is above criticism and I am not at all convinced Reform will win the next GE
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,727
    Sky

    Rubio to meet with Denmark on Greenland next week
  • isamisam Posts: 43,324
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,033
    More in Common have the Tories well ahead of Labour among 18-24 year olds. Perhaps this is the Kemi effect.

    https://x.com/lordashcroft/status/2008894937673146831
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,842

    Taz said:

    I’m sure the ‘investigation’ Labour are conducting into foreign influence in UK politics, due to report prior to the local elections, will happily find Reform are wrong uns in bed with Russia and the other parties, irrespective of their past dodgy dealings, are blameless.

    Not partisan at all.

    I have Nathan Gill on the line from Wormwood Scrubs for you...

    Taz said:

    I’m sure the ‘investigation’ Labour are conducting into foreign influence in UK politics, due to report prior to the local elections, will happily find Reform are wrong uns in bed with Russia and the other parties, irrespective of their past dodgy dealings, are blameless.

    Not partisan at all.

    I have Nathan Gill on the line from Wormwood Scrubs for you...
    I’d hope the investigation is thorough and in depth and looks at all parties and their dodgy relationships with not just Russia, China and other hostile enemy nations.

    It’s too serious a matter to be used by this govt as a lever against an opponent.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7693241.stm

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9n4211zn3o

    https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/fresh-evidence-links-mandelson-to-oligarch-6840549.html

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62068421

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,033

    Sky

    Rubio to meet with Denmark on Greenland next week

    The subject or the venue?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,298
    edited January 7

    Didn’t bother him when his boss was Russia’s useful idiot. Or as it turned out, useless idiot

    Starmer worked for KGB party goer and former Foreign Secretary Johnson?
    Nah you got the wrong chap there. It’s this one. Late of your parish.

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/jeremy-corbyn-russia-must-be-given-nerve-agent-sample-so-they-can-say-if-it-is-theirs

    I was never a fan. My views on Corbyn's desire for perpetual opposition are well documented . Like Starmer I would have kicked him out of the Party at the earliest opportunity. Not that I have any business kicking Corbyn out. I haven't been a member since 2010

    If Tories are on the ropes they reach for the Corbyn last resort option.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,324

    tlg86 said:

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
    Carlton Palmer played for England.

    I’ve always loved that quote by Dave Jones, Palmer’s manager

    ‘Carlton Palmer covers every blade of grass during a match, which is great as his first touch is crap.’
    Second touch a tackle!

    I never liked Palmer much, but went off him even more when I listened to him on the Quickly Kevin 90s football podcast. Told a story of him being aggrieved by Georgie Graham bombing him out of Leeds despite him being a club legend, saying how disrespectful it was, then went on to boast of sitting in Matt Le Tissier’s place in the Southampton dressing room saying he was no respecter of reputations! Complete idiot



  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,534
    isam said:
    It’s a subsample.

    It can get in the bin.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,995

    Scott_xP said:

    Polymarket is disputing that the US mission to capture Nicolás Maduro constituted an "invasion", refusing to pay out bets on a contract with $10.5M in wagers (Financial Times)

    Betting markets will end up replacing the UN as the ultimate adjudicators of international law.
    The Wikipedia article "2026 United States strikes in Venezuela" is not in "Category:Invasions".
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,727

    Sky

    Rubio to meet with Denmark on Greenland next week

    The subject or the venue?
    I do not know the venue
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,491
    I think Kemi by all accounts and estimation has made a massive improvement (low base) over the past six months. I was however disappointed when on R4 the other day when asked what her Big Idea was for economic growth, replied "binning Net Zero". Not that I do or don't agree with binning net zero (I do) but it is hardly a forward-looking, positive vision of economic growth potential.

    I have said many times that the Cons should be hammering on the economy and what they would do to turn ours around and this didn't seem to hit the nail on the head.

    In other news, SKS making a joke has to be super cringe, however funny it might be from anyone else.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,395

    Starmer seems obsessed with Farage and Reform, and I am not at all sure Stramer giving them the publicity is actually harming Farage or his cause as most of it is already known

    That doesn't mean to say I think Farage is above criticism and I am not at all convinced Reform will win the next GE

    Don't really agree. If Starmer can unite the Left against the threat of Reform then he is potentially on to a winner. The Russia connection is a definite weak spot for Nige as its an area where he is at odds with traditional Conservative supporters who are reflexively anti-Putin and must wonder if NF really is their kind of guy (he really isn't).

    Sir Keir should keep punching the bruise.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,298
    Taz said:

    Didn’t bother him when his boss was Russia’s useful idiot. Or as it turned out, useless idiot

    Russian influence is an issue now.

    Didn’t stop labour ingratiating themselves with Russians, like Deripaska, or the Tories soliciting a donation from him, or Lebedev being feted or this.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-lords-who-worked-russia-thrown-out-browder-2022-3

    https://eutoday.net/lord-robert-skidelsky/
    Lord Lebedev please.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,727

    Starmer seems obsessed with Farage and Reform, and I am not at all sure Stramer giving them the publicity is actually harming Farage or his cause as most of it is already known

    That doesn't mean to say I think Farage is above criticism and I am not at all convinced Reform will win the next GE

    Don't really agree. If Starmer can unite the Left against the threat of Reform then he is potentially on to a winner. The Russia connection is a definite weak spot for Nige as its an area where he is at odds with traditional Conservative supporters who are reflexively anti-Putin and must wonder if NF really is their kind of guy (he really isn't).

    Sir Keir should keep punching the bruise.
    Farage is certainly at odds with me, but not sure Starmer obsessing about him is good for a PM

    Leave it to others
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 89,342
    edited January 7

    tlg86 said:

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
    Carlton Palmer played for England.

    I’ve always loved that quote by Dave Jones, Palmer’s manager

    ‘Carlton Palmer covers every blade of grass during a match, which is great as his first touch is crap.’
    He moved to the Middle East for a period to work as a teacher / coach. I have a friend who was out there and when they found out it was Carlton Palmer working at their kids school they got him to come along to their weekly kick about as they thought he was so shit (and now old) it would be funny. Apparently he absolutely rinsed everybody left, right and centre even at age of 50+.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 57,274

    Sky

    Rubio to meet with Denmark on Greenland next week

    There's something rotten in the state of the White House.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,399

    Scott_xP said:

    Polymarket is disputing that the US mission to capture Nicolás Maduro constituted an "invasion", refusing to pay out bets on a contract with $10.5M in wagers (Financial Times)

    That seems fair enough. It wasn't an invasion!
    Special military operation?
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,842

    Taz said:

    Didn’t bother him when his boss was Russia’s useful idiot. Or as it turned out, useless idiot

    Russian influence is an issue now.

    Didn’t stop labour ingratiating themselves with Russians, like Deripaska, or the Tories soliciting a donation from him, or Lebedev being feted or this.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-lords-who-worked-russia-thrown-out-browder-2022-3

    https://eutoday.net/lord-robert-skidelsky/
    Lord Lebedev please.
    See post 9 minutes prior to yours 👍
  • isam said:

    tlg86 said:

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
    Carlton Palmer played for England.

    I’ve always loved that quote by Dave Jones, Palmer’s manager

    ‘Carlton Palmer covers every blade of grass during a match, which is great as his first touch is crap.’
    Second touch a tackle!

    I never liked Palmer much, but went off him even more when I listened to him on the Quickly Kevin 90s football podcast. Told a story of him being aggrieved by Georgie Graham bombing him out of Leeds despite him being a club legend, saying how disrespectful it was, then went on to boast of sitting in Matt Le Tissier’s place in the Southampton dressing room saying he was no respecter of reputations! Complete idiot
    He is a club legend at Leeds only for being a massive waste of money.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,146

    More in Common have the Tories well ahead of Labour among 18-24 year olds. Perhaps this is the Kemi effect.

    https://x.com/lordashcroft/status/2008894937673146831

    I thought quoting subsamples merited a ban these days?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,472
    ICE just shot an observer in Minnesota
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,853
    isam said:
    It's a sub sample of less than 100 votes from the main More In Common poll.

    I got told off by some dimwit on here this morning about quoting a sub sample of 2000 voters...

    If you want an alternative take, the YouGov sub sample of 18-24 year olds (weighted 246, Unweighted 204) has:

    Green: 38%
    Liberal Democrat: 19%
    Labour 18%
    Conservative: 11%
    Reform: 10%

    This seems a desperate attempt by a few on here to talk up the Conservatives - not sure I understand why given Badenoch's slavish devotion to Trump.

    By the way, if you look at the likelihood to vote, guess which group contains the fewest certain to vote...
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,842
    Some good news for the govt. The 10 year is now back down to levels not seen since November and well under what it was for 2025 as a whole.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,298
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Didn’t bother him when his boss was Russia’s useful idiot. Or as it turned out, useless idiot

    Russian influence is an issue now.

    Didn’t stop labour ingratiating themselves with Russians, like Deripaska, or the Tories soliciting a donation from him, or Lebedev being feted or this.


    https://www.businessinsider.com/uk-lords-who-worked-russia-thrown-out-browder-2022-3

    https://eutoday.net/lord-robert-skidelsky/
    Lord Lebedev please.
    See post 9 minutes prior to yours 👍
    I didn't open your links I went straight for the wisecrack as is my way.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,853
    DougSeal said:

    More in Common have the Tories well ahead of Labour among 18-24 year olds. Perhaps this is the Kemi effect.

    https://x.com/lordashcroft/status/2008894937673146831

    I thought quoting subsamples merited a ban these days?
    Yes, I quoted a subsample of more than 2000 this morning and got told off by one of this site's self-appointed guardians.

    To quote a sub of less than 100 - that's almost quoting Scottish VI.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,033
    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2008940677137154134

    I’m not allowed to say it in Parliament, but I can here: today the Prime Minister lied and lied and lied again. And he did so to smear a man defending our veterans in court against the Labour government.

    Labour have attacked everyone from farmers, to businesses, to veterans, so now they attack David Wolfson, a brilliant KC, to take the attention away from their terrible decisions.

    I’m proud to have David in my team. He doesn’t deserve to have his name smeared by low-rent politicians trying to distract from their own failures.

    What little integrity the Prime Minister held he surrendered with that shameful performance today.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,534
    Sounds like a threat.

    Reporter: Just following up on Greenland. Why not rule out taking it by military?

    Leavitt: I will say that the president's first always has been diplomacy. Again, look at Venezuela. He tried ardently to strike a good deal with Maduro. And look at what happened.


    https://x.com/Acyn/status/2008949971845091754
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,565

    Sky

    Rubio to meet with Denmark on Greenland next week

    I wonder whether anyone's told Mr Trump that Greenland is, well, cold. Maybe he's planning to build golf courses there.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,751
    Taz said:

    Some good news for the govt. The 10 year is now back down to levels not seen since November and well under what it was for 2025 as a whole.

    I'm not sure this is great news for the government. Presumably a whole bunch of investors have decided that the world is looking so risky they'd better pile into government bonds, and being a foreign investor in US government bonds doesn't seem so clever right now.

    The government really need investors to be investing in building things.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,606
    AnneJGP said:

    Sky

    Rubio to meet with Denmark on Greenland next week

    I wonder whether anyone's told Mr Trump that Greenland is, well, cold. Maybe he's planning to build golf courses there.
    Mitchell & Webb on how places (including Greenland) got their names (3m45s):-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOBhf8f7cXM
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,565

    Sounds like a threat.

    Reporter: Just following up on Greenland. Why not rule out taking it by military?

    Leavitt: I will say that the president's first always has been diplomacy. Again, look at Venezuela. He tried ardently to strike a good deal with Maduro. And look at what happened.


    https://x.com/Acyn/status/2008949971845091754

    Ardently describes a feeling. He tried ardently for 2 milliseconds.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,726

    Starmer seems obsessed with Farage and Reform, and I am not at all sure Stramer giving them the publicity is actually harming Farage or his cause as most of it is already known

    That doesn't mean to say I think Farage is above criticism and I am not at all convinced Reform will win the next GE

    I think it means to say you'll view criticism of Farage from Badenoch as astute and effective but from Starmer as obsessive and ineffective.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,597

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2008940677137154134

    I’m not allowed to say it in Parliament, but I can here: today the Prime Minister lied and lied and lied again. And he did so to smear a man defending our veterans in court against the Labour government.

    Labour have attacked everyone from farmers, to businesses, to veterans, so now they attack David Wolfson, a brilliant KC, to take the attention away from their terrible decisions.

    I’m proud to have David in my team. He doesn’t deserve to have his name smeared by low-rent politicians trying to distract from their own failures.

    What little integrity the Prime Minister held he surrendered with that shameful performance today.

    Fruity.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,534
    edited January 7
    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,033

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine/b>

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    He is calling for deeper European cooperation, and then he'd agree: “If the coalition of the willing was eight, ten, a dozen countries and we could rotate battalions through then I might well say, ‘Yeah, absolutely let’s do it.’ As it is, it will be us and the French completely exposed for an unlimited period of time.”
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,726

    Taz said:

    Some good news for the govt. The 10 year is now back down to levels not seen since November and well under what it was for 2025 as a whole.

    I'm not sure this is great news for the government. Presumably a whole bunch of investors have decided that the world is looking so risky they'd better pile into government bonds, and being a foreign investor in US government bonds doesn't seem so clever right now.

    The government really need investors to be investing in building things.
    The opposite would be bad news for the government so I think 'good news' is technically fair comment.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,395

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    That's what you get from associating with the likes of Tucker Carlson et al...
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,019

    tlg86 said:

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
    Carlton Palmer played for England.

    I’ve always loved that quote by Dave Jones, Palmer’s manager

    ‘Carlton Palmer covers every blade of grass during a match, which is great as his first touch is crap.’
    He moved to the Middle East for a period to work as a teacher / coach. I have a friend who was out there and when they found out it was Carlton Palmer working at their kids school they got him to come along to their weekly kick about as they thought he was so shit (and now old) it would be funny. Apparently he absolutely rinsed everybody left, right and centre even at age of 50+.
    I've seen him play quite a few times for Leeds. He was a good player, despite his ungainly style. I saw him be a one man midfield and completely boss Sheff Wed for 90 minutes.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 6,013
    Taz said:
    Too bad the Estonians chickened out last year. I'm glad we and the Americans were made of sterner stuff and let's hope this is the end of Trump's bizarre bromance with Putin.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,395
    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
    Carlton Palmer played for England.

    I’ve always loved that quote by Dave Jones, Palmer’s manager

    ‘Carlton Palmer covers every blade of grass during a match, which is great as his first touch is crap.’
    He moved to the Middle East for a period to work as a teacher / coach. I have a friend who was out there and when they found out it was Carlton Palmer working at their kids school they got him to come along to their weekly kick about as they thought he was so shit (and now old) it would be funny. Apparently he absolutely rinsed everybody left, right and centre even at age of 50+.
    When my dad joined the army he was a regular football player but on one occasion they had to play the Ordnance Corp and they had something of a ringer in that they had Duncan Edwards who was then doing his National Service. Although playing largely as a defensive player he scored something like 12 goals. He was already being allowed time off to play for Manchester United and, occasionally, England. My dad said it was something to see, just a completely different game.
    My dad, when a youngster, saw Duncan Edwards play. He saw him score. Apparently he struck the ball so hard that he didn't see it until it ballooned the net.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,254
    stodge said:

    ...I got told off by some dimwit on here this morning about quoting a sub sample of 2000 voters...

    That was me. The number in the subsample is not relevant. The weights are. If the poll is weighted then the weights being applied will be national weights, so the subsamples are inaccurately weighted (unless the local weights match the national weights, and they usually don't). This is why subsamples are usually deprecated on PB.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 36,298

    I thought Kemi stuck it to Starmer pretty well. Starmer was weak and evasive as he is known to be.

    If you listen to it a few times her questioning is pretty weak today and his answers were more appropriate than usual, even if it was delivered in his usual drone. She likes to criticise, even when in essence she agrees. If Starmer answers satisfactorily i.e. I will take a vote in the HoC, she demands why the vote wasn't taken before the event, such as today. By question four her voice was raised. It wasn't really a win was it?Ed Davey on the other hand shot out two zinger with gravitas and clarity.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,163

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    I would too. Unless other European countries commit to a peace keeping force there is going to be a very high cost burden for the UK taxpayer. Either they pay up or commit their own militaries alongside ours. Two countries isn't enough.

    An open ended security guarantee will run up tens of billions in costs and I don't see where that comes from other than higher taxes. I would be voting against this until at least Germany and Poland signed up but probably also Finland, Sweden and Denmark too.
  • PoodleInASlipstreamPoodleInASlipstream Posts: 646
    edited January 7
    OT: any PBers who are motorcyclists may be interested in this. The government is proposing a raft of changes to bike licencing, and in particular are finally looking to fix the current bizarre system that can see a rider having to do 7 tests over 4 years to upgrade their licence.

    There's a public consultation on the proposed changes, which you can fill out here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/improving-moped-and-motorcycle-training-testing-and-licensing/improving-moped-and-motorcycle-training-testing-and-licensing

    They are surprisingly sensible on the whole. But haters of L-plate delivery riders will be disappointed to learn there's no ban on commercial work on L plates. There is a proposal to insert a gap between people taking their CBTs, which would put some delivery riders off the road for a while.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 21,172
    MattW said:

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2008940677137154134

    I’m not allowed to say it in Parliament, but I can here: today the Prime Minister lied and lied and lied again. And he did so to smear a man defending our veterans in court against the Labour government.

    Labour have attacked everyone from farmers, to businesses, to veterans, so now they attack David Wolfson, a brilliant KC, to take the attention away from their terrible decisions.

    I’m proud to have David in my team. He doesn’t deserve to have his name smeared by low-rent politicians trying to distract from their own failures.

    What little integrity the Prime Minister held he surrendered with that shameful performance today.

    Fruity.
    And on the Groky Horror Show website as well.

    (Well done Metro headline writer, well done.)

    It's getting increasingly awkward for anyone to associate themselves with that site, surely?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,211
    edited January 7

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine/b>

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    He is calling for deeper European cooperation, and then he'd agree: “If the coalition of the willing was eight, ten, a dozen countries and we could rotate battalions through then I might well say, ‘Yeah, absolutely let’s do it.’ As it is, it will be us and the French completely exposed for an unlimited period of time.”
    He thinks the war was the EU's fault, so I don't really trust his word on what he claims to believe about what action is correct.

    (He tried to walk it back but still appeared to blame the EU for providing Putin a 'pretext' in Ukraine, simply demonstrating he doesn't understand what a pretext is given the whole point is it is not a real reason, so who cares if the EU 'provided' it, he'd had gotten another).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 100,211
    Starmer's delivery was pretty bad, even though the joke was decent.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,294

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2008940677137154134

    I’m not allowed to say it in Parliament, but I can here: today the Prime Minister lied and lied and lied again. And he did so to smear a man defending our veterans in court against the Labour government.

    Labour have attacked everyone from farmers, to businesses, to veterans, so now they attack David Wolfson, a brilliant KC, to take the attention away from their terrible decisions.

    I’m proud to have David in my team. He doesn’t deserve to have his name smeared by low-rent politicians trying to distract from their own failures.

    What little integrity the Prime Minister held he surrendered with that shameful performance today.

    Surely the PM is a no-rent politician rather than a low-rent politician? No. 10 is free with the job, I believe?
    To put it another way, what on earth is a 'low-rent' politician?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 13,076
    edited January 7
    viewcode said:

    stodge said:

    ...I got told off by some dimwit on here this morning about quoting a sub sample of 2000 voters...

    That was me. The number in the subsample is not relevant. The weights are. If the poll is weighted then the weights being applied will be national weights, so the subsamples are inaccurately weighted (unless the local weights match the national weights, and they usually don't). This is why subsamples are usually deprecated on PB.

    Well, the number is relevant because of sampling error, so Stodge is right to say 2,000 is more than enough. The problem is it isn't the only source of error.

    I think sub-sample analysis is perfectly fine as long as you state what you're up to and the limitations.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 15,019
    edited January 7

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
    Carlton Palmer played for England.

    I’ve always loved that quote by Dave Jones, Palmer’s manager

    ‘Carlton Palmer covers every blade of grass during a match, which is great as his first touch is crap.’
    He moved to the Middle East for a period to work as a teacher / coach. I have a friend who was out there and when they found out it was Carlton Palmer working at their kids school they got him to come along to their weekly kick about as they thought he was so shit (and now old) it would be funny. Apparently he absolutely rinsed everybody left, right and centre even at age of 50+.
    When my dad joined the army he was a regular football player but on one occasion they had to play the Ordnance Corp and they had something of a ringer in that they had Duncan Edwards who was then doing his National Service. Although playing largely as a defensive player he scored something like 12 goals. He was already being allowed time off to play for Manchester United and, occasionally, England. My dad said it was something to see, just a completely different game.
    My dad, when a youngster, saw Duncan Edwards play. He saw him score. Apparently he struck the ball so hard that he didn't see it until it ballooned the net.
    The difference between the talented amateur and pro in every sport is vast and stark. I (talented amateur) have been on a trackday with Sete Gibernau (pro) at Jerez. He was on a stock Fireblade on street tyres and I was on a very racy Fireblade on slicks. I was locking the front and sliding the rear, literally risking death, in every corner. While Sete was sat up, steering with one hand, looking back and taking 2-3 seconds a lap out of me. Humbling.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 57,033
    Mandelson says that Europe needs to accept that "Trump’s decisive approach when faced with real world situations is preferable to the hand wringing and analysis paralysis that has characterised some previous US administrations or, indeed, the deadlock and prevarication that so often characterise the UN and the EU respectively."

    https://x.com/patrickwintour/status/2008921204157980672
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,146
    Dura_Ace said:

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
    Carlton Palmer played for England.

    I’ve always loved that quote by Dave Jones, Palmer’s manager

    ‘Carlton Palmer covers every blade of grass during a match, which is great as his first touch is crap.’
    He moved to the Middle East for a period to work as a teacher / coach. I have a friend who was out there and when they found out it was Carlton Palmer working at their kids school they got him to come along to their weekly kick about as they thought he was so shit (and now old) it would be funny. Apparently he absolutely rinsed everybody left, right and centre even at age of 50+.
    When my dad joined the army he was a regular football player but on one occasion they had to play the Ordnance Corp and they had something of a ringer in that they had Duncan Edwards who was then doing his National Service. Although playing largely as a defensive player he scored something like 12 goals. He was already being allowed time off to play for Manchester United and, occasionally, England. My dad said it was something to see, just a completely different game.
    My dad, when a youngster, saw Duncan Edwards play. He saw him score. Apparently he struck the ball so hard that he didn't see it until it ballooned the net.
    The difference between the talented amateur and pro in every sport is vast and stark. I (talented amateur) have been on a trackday with Sete Gibernau (pro) at Jerez. He was on a stock Fireblade on street tyres and I was on a very racy Fireblade on slicks. I was locking the front and sliding the rear, literally risking death, in every corner. While Sete was sat up, steering with one hand, looking back and taking 2-3 seconds a lap out of me. Humbling.
    What language are you speaking here?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,146

    Mandelson says that Europe needs to accept that "Trump’s decisive approach when faced with real world situations is preferable to the hand wringing and analysis paralysis that has characterised some previous US administrations or, indeed, the deadlock and prevarication that so often characterise the UN and the EU respectively."

    https://x.com/patrickwintour/status/2008921204157980672

    Mandelson’s great when he agrees with you isn’t he? Not so much when he doesn’t.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,597
    MaxPB said:

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    I would too. Unless other European countries commit to a peace keeping force there is going to be a very high cost burden for the UK taxpayer. Either they pay up or commit their own militaries alongside ours. Two countries isn't enough.

    An open ended security guarantee will run up tens of billions in costs and I don't see where that comes from other than higher taxes. I would be voting against this until at least Germany and Poland signed up but probably also Finland, Sweden and Denmark too.
    It's not a peacekeeping force in any meaningful sense of the word that is suggested, unfortunately.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,853
    Eabhal said:

    viewcode said:

    stodge said:

    ...I got told off by some dimwit on here this morning about quoting a sub sample of 2000 voters...

    That was me. The number in the subsample is not relevant. The weights are. If the poll is weighted then the weights being applied will be national weights, so the subsamples are inaccurately weighted (unless the local weights match the national weights, and they usually don't). This is why subsamples are usually deprecated on PB.

    Well, the number is relevant because of sampling error, so Stodge is right to say 2,000 is more than enough. The problem is it isn't the only source of error.

    I think sub-sample analysis is perfectly fine as long as you state what you're up to and the limitations.
    Yes, I explicitly said this morning it was a sub sample of the main YouGov poll. I would like a full England-only poll as a reasonable comparison but there don't seem to be all that many of those.

    Those who just cut and paste from Lord Ashcroft's site without checking the sources are the ones to be hauled over the metaphorical coals but that's too often how this site works - people see something on X which matches their worldview and paste it because developing your own argument is obviously far too much work.

    The sub sample has been weaponised by those supportive of the Conservative cause to "suggest" 16-24 year olds are big supporters of the party and the way it is reported on here is as a separate poll of 16-24 year olds only.

    I don't see anyone posting the equivalent YouGov sub sample which had the Conservatives on 11% but that doesn't mean the "narrative" some are trying to float on here of a Conservative recovery and Badenoch as the next Prime Minister (or kingmaker).
  • isamisam Posts: 43,324

    DavidL said:

    tlg86 said:

    Of course who can forget Ali Dia. And Eric the Eel.

    Or Carlton Palmer.
    Carlton Palmer played for England.

    I’ve always loved that quote by Dave Jones, Palmer’s manager

    ‘Carlton Palmer covers every blade of grass during a match, which is great as his first touch is crap.’
    He moved to the Middle East for a period to work as a teacher / coach. I have a friend who was out there and when they found out it was Carlton Palmer working at their kids school they got him to come along to their weekly kick about as they thought he was so shit (and now old) it would be funny. Apparently he absolutely rinsed everybody left, right and centre even at age of 50+.
    When my dad joined the army he was a regular football player but on one occasion they had to play the Ordnance Corp and they had something of a ringer in that they had Duncan Edwards who was then doing his National Service. Although playing largely as a defensive player he scored something like 12 goals. He was already being allowed time off to play for Manchester United and, occasionally, England. My dad said it was something to see, just a completely different game.
    My dad, when a youngster, saw Duncan Edwards play. He saw him score. Apparently he struck the ball so hard that he didn't see it until it ballooned the net.
    Poor man's Carlton Palmer
  • isamisam Posts: 43,324
    stodge said:

    Eabhal said:

    viewcode said:

    stodge said:

    ...I got told off by some dimwit on here this morning about quoting a sub sample of 2000 voters...

    That was me. The number in the subsample is not relevant. The weights are. If the poll is weighted then the weights being applied will be national weights, so the subsamples are inaccurately weighted (unless the local weights match the national weights, and they usually don't). This is why subsamples are usually deprecated on PB.

    Well, the number is relevant because of sampling error, so Stodge is right to say 2,000 is more than enough. The problem is it isn't the only source of error.

    I think sub-sample analysis is perfectly fine as long as you state what you're up to and the limitations.
    Yes, I explicitly said this morning it was a sub sample of the main YouGov poll. I would like a full England-only poll as a reasonable comparison but there don't seem to be all that many of those.

    Those who just cut and paste from Lord Ashcroft's site without checking the sources are the ones to be hauled over the metaphorical coals but that's too often how this site works - people see something on X which matches their worldview and paste it because developing your own argument is obviously far too much work.

    The sub sample has been weaponised by those supportive of the Conservative cause to "suggest" 16-24 year olds are big supporters of the party and the way it is reported on here is as a separate poll of 16-24 year olds only.

    I don't see anyone posting the equivalent YouGov sub sample which had the Conservatives on 11% but that doesn't mean the "narrative" some are trying to float on here of a Conservative recovery and Badenoch as the next Prime Minister (or kingmaker).
    It's more the "fact" of a Conservative recovery than a "narrative". They are ahead of Labour in every national VI poll now I think, and Badenoch the leader with the most improved ratings in the last three months or so.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,597
    Hmmm. Supplier of small boats to channel crossing gags jailed for 13 years.

    (I have no idea how much of an impact this will have.)

    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/key-channel-boat-supplier-jailed-after-nca-led-probe/
  • boulayboulay Posts: 8,017
    MaxPB said:

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    I would too. Unless other European countries commit to a peace keeping force there is going to be a very high cost burden for the UK taxpayer. Either they pay up or commit their own militaries alongside ours. Two countries isn't enough.

    An open ended security guarantee will run up tens of billions in costs and I don't see where that comes from other than higher taxes. I would be voting against this until at least Germany and Poland signed up but probably also Finland, Sweden and Denmark too.
    All European countries need to contribute as they will all theoretically benefit from the increased security. Would be nice if Spain stopped crying about Gaza for a bit and stepped up re a bigger problem. Ireland can send some of the tech tax the EU forced them to take - €8b I remember. Too many countries like the security blanket but don’t want to pay or turn up - I could always understand why the US got pissed off with NATO slackers.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,756

    A professional tennis match descended into farce when one of the players appeared unable to play even recreational tennis.

    Monday’s match between an unknown Egyptian named Hajar Abdelkader and Lorena Schaedel – a German ranked just outside the world’s top 1,000 – will go down as one of the most one-sided contests in professional tennis history.

    It ended 6-0, 6-0 to Schaedel and lasted 37 minutes, in which the German player conceded three points: two double faults and an unforced error.

    The gulf in quality in the International Tennis Federation-sanctioned W35 event in Nairobi was evident in the warm-up and then early in the match, Abdelkader had to be told by her opponent where she should stand while serving. Abdelkader struggled to serve properly, frequently landing the ball on her side of the court. She landed just eight per cent of her first serves and made 20 double faults in the contest.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/tennis/2026/01/07/hajar-abdelkader-barely-able-to-play-tennis-in-pro-event/

    Though I am loathe to tell stories about German tennis players after that Telegraph non story I can't resist my afternoon with the German female tennis champion in a shower in a studio in Hamburg.

    They had decided that only me and the camera should be in the shower with her so they built a screen around her to protect her modesty from crew and clients. That there were monitors relaying what the camera could see all over the studio hadn't occured to anyone.

    It became so complicated and so unworkable that she decided her modesty just wasn't worth it and turned to me and said 'fuck this!' and we laughed like drains and we pulled the whole thing down and she didn't care less. I love the Germans!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,597
    edited January 7

    OT: any PBers who are motorcyclists may be interested in this. The government is proposing a raft of changes to bike licencing, and in particular are finally looking to fix the current bizarre system that can see a rider having to do 7 tests over 4 years to upgrade their licence.

    There's a public consultation on the proposed changes, which you can fill out here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/improving-moped-and-motorcycle-training-testing-and-licensing/improving-moped-and-motorcycle-training-testing-and-licensing

    They are surprisingly sensible on the whole. But haters of L-plate delivery riders will be disappointed to learn there's no ban on commercial work on L plates. There is a proposal to insert a gap between people taking their CBTs, which would put some delivery riders off the road for a while.

    I've never seen so many bloody consultations:

    motoring offences **
    introducing a minimum learning period for learner drivers (category B driving licence)
    introducing mandatory eyesight testing for older drivers
    improving moped and motorcycle training, testing and licensing (categories AM, A1, A2 and A driving licence)
    mandating vehicle safety technologies in GB type approval


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/road-safety-strategy

    I'm taking that to mean that the Govt are sticking very tightly to things with strong public support, because they are still feeling under pressure from culture war politics, rather than following their principles and evidence *.

    And that's all in addition to the mobility aid one I pointed out.

    * No dice for the PBI DUI enthusiasts society though; as far as I can see a small reduction in the maximum level of drink driving allowed within the law has about 70-80% public support :smile: .

    ** The motoring offences one may be worth a look, though again it is mainly about things in the public eye, including drug driving (which is the one the Bufton-Tuftons in the Telegraph demand be addressed rather than elderly driver eye tests and drink driving, which affect them.

    No mention of some important but not Daily Mail stuff like blocking pavements and drop kerbs etc.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,327
    edited January 7
    MaxPB said:

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    I would too. Unless other European countries commit to a peace keeping force there is going to be a very high cost burden for the UK taxpayer. Either they pay up or commit their own militaries alongside ours. Two countries isn't enough.

    An open ended security guarantee will run up tens of billions in costs and I don't see where that comes from other than higher taxes. I would be voting against this until at least Germany and Poland signed up but probably also Finland, Sweden and Denmark too.
    Our advantage over Russia is in technology and airpower. The British Army is as small as it's been in a very long time. So why are we focusing on boots on the ground? Because it's the most controversial aspect of our support?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,550

    Starmer is obviously a sectarian bigot. Imagine making a similar comment about Catholics?

    It wouldn't be very funny as they celebrate Christmas on 25th December.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,395
    boulay said:

    MaxPB said:

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    I would too. Unless other European countries commit to a peace keeping force there is going to be a very high cost burden for the UK taxpayer. Either they pay up or commit their own militaries alongside ours. Two countries isn't enough.

    An open ended security guarantee will run up tens of billions in costs and I don't see where that comes from other than higher taxes. I would be voting against this until at least Germany and Poland signed up but probably also Finland, Sweden and Denmark too.
    All European countries need to contribute as they will all theoretically benefit from the increased security. Would be nice if Spain stopped crying about Gaza for a bit and stepped up re a bigger problem. Ireland can send some of the tech tax the EU forced them to take - €8b I remember. Too many countries like the security blanket but don’t want to pay or turn up - I could always understand why the US got pissed off with NATO slackers.
    Agree, but little chance of that happening without France and the UK taking the lead. Any other countries doing that would be too open to Kremlin intimidation for reasons of history or vulnerability due to size, as we saw with Belgium. France and the UK going first gives them cover.

    So credit to Macron and Starmer for biting the bullet.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,853
    isam said:

    stodge said:

    Eabhal said:

    viewcode said:

    stodge said:

    ...I got told off by some dimwit on here this morning about quoting a sub sample of 2000 voters...

    That was me. The number in the subsample is not relevant. The weights are. If the poll is weighted then the weights being applied will be national weights, so the subsamples are inaccurately weighted (unless the local weights match the national weights, and they usually don't). This is why subsamples are usually deprecated on PB.

    Well, the number is relevant because of sampling error, so Stodge is right to say 2,000 is more than enough. The problem is it isn't the only source of error.

    I think sub-sample analysis is perfectly fine as long as you state what you're up to and the limitations.
    Yes, I explicitly said this morning it was a sub sample of the main YouGov poll. I would like a full England-only poll as a reasonable comparison but there don't seem to be all that many of those.

    Those who just cut and paste from Lord Ashcroft's site without checking the sources are the ones to be hauled over the metaphorical coals but that's too often how this site works - people see something on X which matches their worldview and paste it because developing your own argument is obviously far too much work.

    The sub sample has been weaponised by those supportive of the Conservative cause to "suggest" 16-24 year olds are big supporters of the party and the way it is reported on here is as a separate poll of 16-24 year olds only.

    I don't see anyone posting the equivalent YouGov sub sample which had the Conservatives on 11% but that doesn't mean the "narrative" some are trying to float on here of a Conservative recovery and Badenoch as the next Prime Minister (or kingmaker).
    It's more the "fact" of a Conservative recovery than a "narrative". They are ahead of Labour in every national VI poll now I think, and Badenoch the leader with the most improved ratings in the last three months or so.
    That doesn't alter the fact the "poll" quoted by Lord Ashcroft was just a sub sample.

    A quick look at the polls over the past month or so confirms, yes, the Conservatives are more often ahead of Labour than behind but not in all polls and taking into account margin of error, there's little in it and the truth is whatever Badenoch's personal ratings (and I've said on here on a number of occasions she has had a good autumn and stabilised her position after a rocky spell around the May 2025 local elections), the big change has been continued Labour decline rather than strong Conservative advance.

    Indeed, take out More In Common and Lord Ashcroft, both of which are very favourable to and for the Conservatives and most polls continue to have the party at or just below 20% where they have sat for months - indeed, if you look at YouGov polls, the Conservatives have not traded above 20% since last April and the same is true of Opinium.
  • MattW said:

    I'm taking that to mean that the Govt are sticking very tightly to things with strong public support, because they are still feeling under pressure from culture war politics, rather than following their principles and evidence *.

    Well indeed, the motorcycle consultation is basically about things that the whole industry and community overwhelmingly support.

    The only controversial proposal is the gap between CBTs, but the wording used in the consultation suggests that's intended as sacrificial goat, just something the government can ditch and say they listened to the public.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 57,235

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    Is it true the Tory Shadow Attorney General is Roman Abramovich's lawyer?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,399
    MattW said:

    OT: any PBers who are motorcyclists may be interested in this. The government is proposing a raft of changes to bike licencing, and in particular are finally looking to fix the current bizarre system that can see a rider having to do 7 tests over 4 years to upgrade their licence.

    There's a public consultation on the proposed changes, which you can fill out here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/improving-moped-and-motorcycle-training-testing-and-licensing/improving-moped-and-motorcycle-training-testing-and-licensing

    They are surprisingly sensible on the whole. But haters of L-plate delivery riders will be disappointed to learn there's no ban on commercial work on L plates. There is a proposal to insert a gap between people taking their CBTs, which would put some delivery riders off the road for a while.

    I've never seem so many bloody consultations:

    motoring offences
    introducing a minimum learning period for learner drivers (category B driving licence)
    introducing mandatory eyesight testing for older drivers
    improving moped and motorcycle training, testing and licensing (categories AM, A1, A2 and A driving licence)
    mandating vehicle safety technologies in GB type approval


    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/road-safety-strategy

    I'm taking that to mean that the Govt are sticking very tightly to things with strong public support, because they are still feeling under pressure from culture war politics, rather than following their principles and evidence *.

    And that's all in addition to the mobility aid one I pointed out.

    * No dice for the PBI DUI enthusiasts society though; as far as I can see a small reduction in the maximum level of drink driving allowed within the law has about 70-80% public support :smile: .
    They misunderstand how electoral support works.

    If even 90% of people approve eyetesting for older drivers virtually none of those will choose to vote Labour, or not Labour, on that basis.
    However, if you are one of the people who lose the ability to drive (legally) because of those new eyetests......

    Making changes as incumbent typically costs votes, hence we see a lot of inertia. Make your changes early, boldly, explain and empathise but don't apologise.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,751
    boulay said:

    MaxPB said:

    On topic.

    SHOCKED!!!

    Nigel Farage: I’ll vote against putting boots on ground in Ukraine

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/ukraine-starmer-ceasefire-farage-russia-sccdjbj8x

    I would too. Unless other European countries commit to a peace keeping force there is going to be a very high cost burden for the UK taxpayer. Either they pay up or commit their own militaries alongside ours. Two countries isn't enough.

    An open ended security guarantee will run up tens of billions in costs and I don't see where that comes from other than higher taxes. I would be voting against this until at least Germany and Poland signed up but probably also Finland, Sweden and Denmark too.
    All European countries need to contribute as they will all theoretically benefit from the increased security. Would be nice if Spain stopped crying about Gaza for a bit and stepped up re a bigger problem. Ireland can send some of the tech tax the EU forced them to take - €8b I remember. Too many countries like the security blanket but don’t want to pay or turn up - I could always understand why the US got pissed off with NATO slackers.
    The Apple tax the Irish government lost the court case over was more than €14bn.

    I think it's a bit wanky to complain about other European countries not contributing to a poxy tiny little troop deployment in Ukraine when Britain can hardly claim to have done its fair share in defending Europe compared to what Ukraine has done for us. It's not too much for Ukraine to ask us to do this and it would be shameful to refuse to do so as part of some petty argument with other European countries about who should be doing what or paying how much. Isn't that precisely the sort of quibbling behaviour we criticise the EU for?
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