Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
Trump: “We’re going to run the country until such time as we can have a safe, proper, transition…so we are going to run the country until we can have a safe…judicious transition.”
So Trump, for the time being, is effectively saying for now he’s also President of Venezuela.
The single lesson we should take from this is that, if we do not want simply to inhabit some autocrat's "zone of influence", whether that's Putin or Trump (or some equally degenerate successor), Europe needs sufficient military power to tell them to fuck off.
Difficult to be anything other than positive about the events in Venezuela.
Yeah, my first response was one of shock, but its hard to see the removal of Maduro as anything other than good news.
If it was done by anyone else, eg Clinton, I think there would be a lot more acceptance of what happened.
But a Clinton or an Obama wouldn't have done this because they would have seen after about 8 hours, the shit is going to descend on the US in ways imaginable and unimaginable alike.
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
The single lesson we should take from this is that, if we do not want simply to inhabit some autocrat's "zone of influence", whether that's Putin or Trump (or some equally degenerate successor), Europe needs sufficient military power to tell them to fuck off.
We should have been thinking this from around 2018, but better late than never!
Nobody is even pretending that Congress authorized a military operation to remove a foreign leader as a prelude to occupying his country and running it by (presumably) American military rule. The unitary executive theory now just makes Trump emperor of the world, I guess. Incredible stuff.
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
As far as I can tell, Venezuela is not currently in control of the US??? Does Trump think they are?
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
Successfully exfiltrating the leader makes Trump the main power broker in Venezuela, whether you like it or not.
Difficult to be anything other than positive about the events in Venezuela.
Yeah, my first response was one of shock, but its hard to see the removal of Maduro as anything other than good news.
If it was done by anyone else, eg Clinton, I think there would be a lot more acceptance of what happened.
But a Clinton or an Obama wouldn't have done this because they would have seen after about 8 hours, the shit is going to descend on the US in ways imaginable and unimaginable alike.
8 hours has passed and I don't see any showers of shit yet.
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
Successfully exfiltrating the leader makes Trump the main power broker in Venezuela, whether you like it or not.
Just because you say something doesn’t mean it’s true
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
As far as I can tell, Venezuela is not currently in control of the US??? Does Trump think they are?
Do you mean 'under the control?'
The other idea is interesting but I don't think even Trump believes that Venezuela is running the US.
Difficult to be anything other than positive about the events in Venezuela.
Yeah, my first response was one of shock, but its hard to see the removal of Maduro as anything other than good news.
If it was done by anyone else, eg Clinton, I think there would be a lot more acceptance of what happened.
But a Clinton or an Obama wouldn't have done this because they would have seen after about 8 hours, the shit is going to descend on the US in ways imaginable and unimaginable alike.
8 hours has passed and I don't see any showers of shit yet.
Maduro has multiple indictments in the United States for narcoterrorism. You don't get to avoid justice for drug trafficking in the United States because you live in a palace in Caracas.
That might have had a shred of credibility if Triump had not just pardonned the ex-President of Honduras who was in jail in the US for exactly the same thing ie drug trafficking. I await your explanation with interest but I won't be holding my breath.
Zero credibility, in legal terms.
Vance is basically saying that if the DOJ, with its wildly corrupt leadership, is willing to bring charges against a foreign leader, then that completely bypasses Congressional jurisdiction over declarations of war.
I suppose it is doing us a service for him to state that explicitly.
I don't understand this congressional thing, or for that matter asking Parliament.
Surely, if you need to attack an enemy, you do it secretly, swiftly, violently and without giving notice.
Talking to your legislature blows all that into a cocked hat.
It's been explicit in the US Constitution (Article I, section 8) since the founding of the republic. The founding fathers debated your point at length, and framed the constitution the way they did notwithstanding.
Our laws are rather different.
The US constitution has gone the same way as international law in the last couple of years. Those who are so excitedly dismissive of the latter forget that our domestic laws are equally meaningless if governments do not abide by them or enforce them.
‘ Iran's UN Ambassador Amir-Saeid Iravani called on the UN Security Council to condemn Trump's statement in letter to the secretary-general and president of the Security Council on Friday, news agency Reuters reported.
"Iran will exercise its rights decisively and proportionately. The United States of America bears full responsibility for any consequences arising from these unlawful threats and any ensuing escalation," he wrote in the letter.’
Hopefully there will be a UN Security council vote and Russia and China will likely vote to condemn the US operation in Venezuela, in which case the UK and France should seize the chance to vote with the US against them to shore up the western alliance again.
I would also advise Zelensky to get Ukraine to vote with the US on any UN General Assembly vote
I honestly think both the UK and France should vote against the US in the Security Council. The Ukraine position is much more complicated because voting for this outrage is not exactly consistent with condemning Russia's illegal invasion of them but they need all the help they can get. They have bigger fish to fry. We don't. We either stand in support of international law or we give up pretending that it means anything.
Option 2 sounds promising.
Maduro lost the last election, what did "international law" do about that?
The whole point of international law is that it governs relations between governments, but largely stays out of what happens within the borders of a country (unless it reaches the level of a crime against humanity). International law, in other words, is not trying to police the running of a country's own elections, but it does try to stop one country interfering in the affairs of another.
Anyone who finds what is happening to be okay is probably suffering from the same sort of issues that clearly afflict Trump. He's saying stuff that is properly nuts, with no need to qualify that statement. A functioning democracy would have already removed him from power, and would certainly not be playing along and pretending that everything is fine.
Well clearly Baron Trump deployed his singular genius to find out where Maduro was and then inform the authorities (his dad) and so without doubt is a deserving recipient of the $25m bounty.
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
But (and I appreciate you're the historian here) are we not just seeing a return to gunboat diplomacy in the modern era?
The army and government of Venezuela will do as Trump tells them, "or else". He's just demonstrated what the "or else" looks like, so will the remaining leadership stand in his way?
I don't know how this will play out, but the US successfully forcing countries to behave as puppets in the face of overwhelming military force does not seem unbelievable to me.
He's already had partial success on this front just by threatening sanctions. I expect we now see a shift from tariff diplomacy to gunboat diplomacy more widely. Mexico and Greenland are probably the most at risk.
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
Successfully exfiltrating the leader makes Trump the main power broker in Venezuela, whether you like it or not.
I think the people with guns and tanks in Caracas remain the main power broker in Venezuela. That's the Venezuelan military, who were doing nicely from the Maduro regime, who fed them oil money. Do you know otherwise?
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
As far as I can tell, Venezuela is not currently in control of the US??? Does Trump think they are?
Do you mean 'under the control?'
The other idea is interesting but I don't think even Trump believes that Venezuela is running the US.
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
So, you're saying the problem is the British Empire wasn't big enough?
Difficult to be anything other than positive about the events in Venezuela.
Yeah, my first response was one of shock, but its hard to see the removal of Maduro as anything other than good news.
If it was done by anyone else, eg Clinton, I think there would be a lot more acceptance of what happened.
But a Clinton or an Obama wouldn't have done this because they would have seen after about 8 hours, the shit is going to descend on the US in ways imaginable and unimaginable alike.
8 hours has passed and I don't see any showers of shit yet.
Clinton did do similar. Multiple times.
I'm sure if you poke around the attic you'll find your "Mission Accomplished" banners to bring out for the occasion.
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
Successfully exfiltrating the leader makes Trump the main power broker in Venezuela, whether you like it or not.
I think the people with guns and tanks in Caracas remain the main power broker in Venezuela. That's the Venezuelan military, who were doing nicely from the Maduro regime, who fed them oil money. Do you know otherwise?
Perhaps the incoming Trump regime will do the same ?
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
The Venezuelan opposition know they have no chance of being able to take control of the country and remove the outgoing Maduro led government and armed forces and police without US support. So, for the time being the Venezuelan opposition will do what Trump tells them to
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
Successfully exfiltrating the leader makes Trump the main power broker in Venezuela, whether you like it or not.
I think the people with guns and tanks in Caracas remain the main power broker in Venezuela. That's the Venezuelan military, who were doing nicely from the Maduro regime, who fed them oil money. Do you know otherwise?
Will they not be a lot more conscious of the wishes of the US than they were yesterday?
Also: I don't see how any intelligent and lucid person could watch this press conference and conclude that the president of the United States has anywhere near sufficient cognitive ability to properly execute the duties of his office.
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Venezuela is not part of the British Empire. It has a government, a military and an opposition. They will all be seeking to run it themselves. Without force in place, the USA can't whatever the dementia addled pervert thinks in the dim recesses of what he seems to call his mind.
So, you're saying the problem is the British Empire wasn't big enough?
Anyone who finds what is happening to be okay is probably suffering from the same sort of issues that clearly afflict Trump. He's saying stuff that is properly nuts, with no need to qualify that statement. A functioning democracy would have already removed him from power, and would certainly not be playing along and pretending that everything is fine.
@jonsopel There is no doubt that this has been an effective operation, brilliantly executed. But what comes next? The military operation to get rid of Saddam Hussain was also effectively done. It’s what happened next that was so calamitous. How long is US planning to run Venezuela? How many US troops and police to maintain order? How many civil servants?
Trump says the US will run Venezuela until a transition can be arranged and they will start pumping the oil, and will make the people of Venezuela "rich, indepedent and safe".
Errr...that means boots on the ground, which he hasn't got, and won't have without Congressional approval.
Not necessarily. In the days of the British Empire, the ability to deploy force was often sufficient to allow us to call the shots without occupying a place.
Not so after the Indian Mutiny.
If we'd played our cards right after that, India would now be as reliable an ally as Australia or Canada - which would be of immeasurable importance to 21st Century geopolitics.
That would have required granting progressive self-governance in the 1870s and 1880s, not begrudgingly - and only to a limited extent - between the wars.
Anyone who finds what is happening to be okay is probably suffering from the same sort of issues that clearly afflict Trump. He's saying stuff that is properly nuts, with no need to qualify that statement. A functioning democracy would have already removed him from power, and would certainly not be playing along and pretending that everything is fine.
I'm quite sure that people like Clinton, Obama and Biden are envious of what Trump has pulled off last night.
Anyone who finds what is happening to be okay is probably suffering from the same sort of issues that clearly afflict Trump. He's saying stuff that is properly nuts, with no need to qualify that statement. A functioning democracy would have already removed him from power, and would certainly not be playing along and pretending that everything is fine.
Well they did it with Biden, why the change of view ?
@jonsopel There is no doubt that this has been an effective operation, brilliantly executed. But what comes next? The military operation to get rid of Saddam Hussain was also effectively done. It’s what happened next that was so calamitous. How long is US planning to run Venezuela? How many US troops and police to maintain order? How many civil servants?
Venezuela's civic institutions remain in place, and there is an alternative leader (and Nobel Peace Prize winner) available or they could quickly move to new elections.
And the US will run it ! Good grief some one just take him away to a padded cell .
I assume the next step is an Aramco style marketing arrangement (without the corresponding Ar) for the Trump family to profiteer from Venezuelan oil production.
@jonsopel There is no doubt that this has been an effective operation, brilliantly executed. But what comes next? The military operation to get rid of Saddam Hussain was also effectively done. It’s what happened next that was so calamitous. How long is US planning to run Venezuela? How many US troops and police to maintain order? How many civil servants?
Venezuela is, I believe, heavily forested. Assuming some at least of the people 'don't like' having Americans in control, how long before we see American troops in pitched battles with Venezuelan nationalists.
‘ Iran's UN Ambassador Amir-Saeid Iravani called on the UN Security Council to condemn Trump's statement in letter to the secretary-general and president of the Security Council on Friday, news agency Reuters reported.
"Iran will exercise its rights decisively and proportionately. The United States of America bears full responsibility for any consequences arising from these unlawful threats and any ensuing escalation," he wrote in the letter.’
Hopefully there will be a UN Security council vote and Russia and China will likely vote to condemn the US operation in Venezuela, in which case the UK and France should seize the chance to vote with the US against them to shore up the western alliance again.
I would also advise Zelensky to get Ukraine to vote with the US on any UN General Assembly vote
I honestly think both the UK and France should vote against the US in the Security Council. The Ukraine position is much more complicated because voting for this outrage is not exactly consistent with condemning Russia's illegal invasion of them but they need all the help they can get. They have bigger fish to fry. We don't. We either stand in support of international law or we give up pretending that it means anything.
Option 2 sounds promising.
Maduro lost the last election, what did "international law" do about that?
The whole point of international law is that it governs relations between governments, but largely stays out of what happens within the borders of a country (unless it reaches the level of a crime against humanity). International law, in other words, is not trying to police the running of a country's own elections, but it does try to stop one country interfering in the affairs of another.
The whole point of international law is its a fiction.
What governs relations between governments is, and always has been, diplomacy and realpolitik. Not law.
So, America has annexed Venezuela and is going to steal the oil.
Forget what I said about him cancelling the mid-terms for Democrat districts and using the supermajority for an Enabling Act.
Why would he need one? He’s just annexed a country and did so by Executive Order. Doesn’t matter that he needs approval from Congress. He just did it anyway.
Anyone who finds what is happening to be okay is probably suffering from the same sort of issues that clearly afflict Trump. He's saying stuff that is properly nuts, with no need to qualify that statement. A functioning democracy would have already removed him from power, and would certainly not be playing along and pretending that everything is fine.
I'm quite sure that people like Clinton, Obama and Biden are envious of what Trump has pulled off last night.
I am equally sure they are each appalled at Trump's actions.
So, America has annexed Venezuela and is going to steal the oil.
Forget what I said about him cancelling the mid-terms for Democrat districts and using the supermajority for an Enabling Act.
Why would he need one? He’s just annexed a country and did so by Executive Order. Doesn’t matter that he needs approval from Congress. He just did it anyway.
@jonsopel There is no doubt that this has been an effective operation, brilliantly executed. But what comes next? The military operation to get rid of Saddam Hussain was also effectively done. It’s what happened next that was so calamitous. How long is US planning to run Venezuela? How many US troops and police to maintain order? How many civil servants?
Venezuela is, I believe, heavily forested. Assuming some at least of the people 'don't like' having Americans in control, how long before we see American troops in pitched battles with Venezuelan nationalists.
Time to bring out the dioxins then.
Which is more toxic, Agent Orange in the White House or the Agent Orange dropped from C-123s?
I'm pretty sure the US just announced it's the controlling authority in Venezuela and thus responsible for day to day life in a large country, where there appears to be no US troops.
So, America has annexed Venezuela and is going to steal the oil.
Forget what I said about him cancelling the mid-terms for Democrat districts and using the supermajority for an Enabling Act.
Why would he need one? He’s just annexed a country and did so by Executive Order. Doesn’t matter that he needs approval from Congress. He just did it anyway.
Presidents have taken military action without approval from Congress since long before I was born.
Anyone who finds what is happening to be okay is probably suffering from the same sort of issues that clearly afflict Trump. He's saying stuff that is properly nuts, with no need to qualify that statement. A functioning democracy would have already removed him from power, and would certainly not be playing along and pretending that everything is fine.
I'm quite sure that people like Clinton, Obama and Biden are envious of what Trump has pulled off last night.
I am equally sure they are each appalled at Trump's actions.
Time will show they were right to be appalled.
On something like this? I very much doubt it.
Remember Hillary Clinton laughing about Gaddafi's fate?
‘ Iran's UN Ambassador Amir-Saeid Iravani called on the UN Security Council to condemn Trump's statement in letter to the secretary-general and president of the Security Council on Friday, news agency Reuters reported.
"Iran will exercise its rights decisively and proportionately. The United States of America bears full responsibility for any consequences arising from these unlawful threats and any ensuing escalation," he wrote in the letter.’
Hopefully there will be a UN Security council vote and Russia and China will likely vote to condemn the US operation in Venezuela, in which case the UK and France should seize the chance to vote with the US against them to shore up the western alliance again.
I would also advise Zelensky to get Ukraine to vote with the US on any UN General Assembly vote
I honestly think both the UK and France should vote against the US in the Security Council. The Ukraine position is much more complicated because voting for this outrage is not exactly consistent with condemning Russia's illegal invasion of them but they need all the help they can get. They have bigger fish to fry. We don't. We either stand in support of international law or we give up pretending that it means anything.
Option 2 sounds promising.
Maduro lost the last election, what did "international law" do about that?
The whole point of international law is that it governs relations between governments, but largely stays out of what happens within the borders of a country (unless it reaches the level of a crime against humanity). International law, in other words, is not trying to police the running of a country's own elections, but it does try to stop one country interfering in the affairs of another.
The whole point of international law is its a fiction.
What governs relations between governments is, and always has been, diplomacy and realpolitik. Not law.
@jonsopel There is no doubt that this has been an effective operation, brilliantly executed. But what comes next? The military operation to get rid of Saddam Hussain was also effectively done. It’s what happened next that was so calamitous. How long is US planning to run Venezuela? How many US troops and police to maintain order? How many civil servants?
Venezuela is, I believe, heavily forested. Assuming some at least of the people 'don't like' having Americans in control, how long before we see American troops in pitched battles with Venezuelan nationalists.
"Just like fucking Saigon, hey Slick?" "I was in Junior High, dick-head!"
So, America has annexed Venezuela and is going to steal the oil.
Forget what I said about him cancelling the mid-terms for Democrat districts and using the supermajority for an Enabling Act.
Why would he need one? He’s just annexed a country and did so by Executive Order. Doesn’t matter that he needs approval from Congress. He just did it anyway.
Presidents have taken military action without approval from Congress since long before I was born.
They can also get permission retroactively. Bet Trump's lackeys on The Hill have a resolution praising The Maximum Leader before lunch tomorrow.
It will be fascinating to see where Nancy goes: almost certainly back to MLS I'd have thought.
For the first time as far back as I can remember (perhaps decades?) a non old firm side are the bookies favourites for the Scottish Premier League
Hearts 5/4 to win, Celtic 15/8, Rangers 2/1
Some boffin had a stat the other day that no team has ever won the Scottish top football division having suffered 5 league defeats before new year. Can't see Celtic winning the league if Nancy stays any longer
Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.
Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
'There’s a lot of noise from people who couldn’t find Venezuela on a map yesterday.
This is clearly a fast-moving and extremely serious situation. I am not going to rush to judgement or speculate on incomplete reports.
I’m more interested in what Venezuelans risking their lives for democracy have to say.
The UK’s responsibility is to understand the facts, assess where our national interest lies and consider the consequences for Venezuela’s people and for regional and global stability.
It is not for us to second guess from afar the motives and evidence behind these events. Let’s hear what President Trump has to say shortly. I will also be watching closely what is said by Venezuela’s democratic opposition.' https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2007469918178959818?s=20
That’s a good statement. Aligned with the PM but more weight on the democratic opposition
Difficult to be anything other than positive about the events in Venezuela.
Yeah, my first response was one of shock, but its hard to see the removal of Maduro as anything other than good news.
If it was done by anyone else, eg Clinton, I think there would be a lot more acceptance of what happened.
But a Clinton or an Obama wouldn't have done this because they would have seen after about 8 hours, the shit is going to descend on the US in ways imaginable and unimaginable alike.
8 hours has passed and I don't see any showers of shit yet.
Clinton did do similar. Multiple times.
I am with Mark, there is huge political risk with this one. Firstly, in a straightforward sense, does the US voter like their governments overseas adventures as distraction from delivering close to home priorities - Medicare and food costs, jobs, affordability of college education and housing? On the diplomatic front, Trump is claiming regime change here is because Venezuela is flooding US with drugs, and that won’t wash as it not factual, so the US is friendless on this one, maybe not showers of diplomatic shit immediately, but the moment it starts to go wrong in anyway, a huge coalition will be quick to flag it up and put the pressure on the Trumps White House.
So, America has annexed Venezuela and is going to steal the oil.
Forget what I said about him cancelling the mid-terms for Democrat districts and using the supermajority for an Enabling Act.
Why would he need one? He’s just annexed a country and did so by Executive Order. Doesn’t matter that he needs approval from Congress. He just did it anyway.
The President only needs to notify Congress within 48 hrs of committing US forces to military action under the 1973 War Powers Resolution but that is not the same as needing its approval. Congressional authorisation is only needed if they stay over 60 days
Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.
Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
'There’s a lot of noise from people who couldn’t find Venezuela on a map yesterday.
This is clearly a fast-moving and extremely serious situation. I am not going to rush to judgement or speculate on incomplete reports.
I’m more interested in what Venezuelans risking their lives for democracy have to say.
The UK’s responsibility is to understand the facts, assess where our national interest lies and consider the consequences for Venezuela’s people and for regional and global stability.
It is not for us to second guess from afar the motives and evidence behind these events. Let’s hear what President Trump has to say shortly. I will also be watching closely what is said by Venezuela’s democratic opposition.' https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/2007469918178959818?s=20
Anyone who has played Risk (and who hasn't) knows where Venezuela is.
I blame Risk for the fact that I occasionally muddle up Venezuela and Colombia!
BREAKING: Sir Keir Starmer does not condemn the US strikes on Venezuela "at this stage", saying the facts need to be established. He has not yet spoken to Donald Trump.
The UK prime minister told broadcasters: "I want to establish the facts first. I want to speak to President Trump, I want to speak to allies.
"As I say, I can be absolutely clear that we were not involved in that. And as you know, I always say and believe we should all uphold international law.
"But I think at this stage, fast-moving situation. Let's establish the facts, and take it from there."
He added: "And so I will want to talk to the president, I will want to talk to allies. But at the moment, I think we need to establish the facts.
"I think President Trump is doing a press conference later, so hopefully more information will come out then."
As I was saying. The UK is in a weak position and is stuck in an abusive relationship in its only remaining alliance.
Your ridiculous hyperbole does you no favours
The whole notion that if only we were part of the EU, we could make the USA cower before our collective might, seems unlikely.
Trump promises to sell large amounts of Venezuelan oil to other nations
Sounds good. Lower prices,Putin bankrupt.
Is there that much available without a lot of investment?
Though it is interesting that Russia don't seem to be pulling any strings here. Whose idea _was_ this?
Russia has to weigh up the importance of having Venezuela as a partner v pissing off Trump and pushing him towards the Ukrainian side. I would reckon Venezuela is way less important to them in the grand scheme.
Trump promises to sell large amounts of Venezuelan oil to other nations
Courtesy of the FT
However, I understand the neglect of Venezuelan oil fields has been so long-standing that it'll take quite some time for a significant enough an increase to impact global supply materially. That relies on stability going forward such that US companies are willing to invest there. It's clearly too early to comment on whether that will be the end result.
“Cuba is gonna be something we end up talking about” says Trump.
Rubio adds “if I lived in Havana and I was in the government I’d be concerned”.
Remember when everyone was worried about kids watching horror movies, the satanic panic, what children would grow up into from exposure? Looks like they would have been better off stopping people watching Mafia/gangster films.
Sorry to be petty and domestic about this, but has Nigel Farage issued any statement, or answered any questions, about the USA's actions in Venezuela? I see that Davey has called for Sir Kier to denounce Trump, but that's to be expected.
Has Badenoch commented, or is she just irrelevant nowadays?
Well all the American sites that algorithms direct into my computer are saying there is no difference between this invasion and the Russians invasion of Ukraine. I think they have a point
That must be difficult for you. Do you support one of them (if so, which one and why?) , both, or neither?
I thought it would be obvious. I support neither and I can't imagine any sane person would. They are leading the world into a very dark place.
Comments
Nobody is even pretending that Congress authorized a military operation to remove a foreign leader as a prelude to occupying his country and running it by (presumably) American military rule. The unitary executive theory now just makes Trump emperor of the world, I guess. Incredible stuff.
https://bsky.app/profile/mjsdc.bsky.social/post/3mbjut2kvd22l
Literally.
Clinton did do similar. Multiple times.
The other idea is interesting but I don't think even Trump believes that Venezuela is running the US.
(Oh God now we have Hegseth).
It's like a drug.
OK enough. Turning off.
The army and government of Venezuela will do as Trump tells them, "or else". He's just demonstrated what the "or else" looks like, so will the remaining leadership stand in his way?
I don't know how this will play out, but the US successfully forcing countries to behave as puppets in the face of overwhelming military force does not seem unbelievable to me.
He's already had partial success on this front just by threatening sanctions. I expect we now see a shift from tariff diplomacy to gunboat diplomacy more widely. Mexico and Greenland are probably the most at risk.
And the US will run it ! Good grief some one just take him away to a padded cell .
Also: I don't see how any intelligent and lucid person could watch this press conference and conclude that the president of the United States has anywhere near sufficient cognitive ability to properly execute the duties of his office.
Trump is nuts.
Maduro being gone is ok.
There is no doubt that this has been an effective operation, brilliantly executed.
But what comes next?
The military operation to get rid of Saddam Hussain was also effectively done. It’s what happened next that was so calamitous.
How long is US planning to run Venezuela?
How many US troops and police to maintain order?
How many civil servants?
Guff about bringing the enemy to its needs. Other, more conciliatory stuff.
Is it too much to hope there are cracks in the regime
https://x.com/khamenei_ir/status/2007447233998790760?s=61
That would have required granting progressive self-governance in the 1870s and 1880s, not begrudgingly - and only to a limited extent - between the wars.
Which isn't calming my nerves.
What governs relations between governments is, and always has been, diplomacy and realpolitik. Not law.
Forget what I said about him cancelling the mid-terms for Democrat districts and using the supermajority for an Enabling Act.
Why would he need one? He’s just annexed a country and did so by Executive Order. Doesn’t matter that he needs approval from Congress. He just did it anyway.
Time will show they were right to be appalled.
Which is more toxic, Agent Orange in the White House or the Agent Orange dropped from C-123s?
Always love a bit of annexation whilst pissed.
I'm pretty sure the US just announced it's the controlling authority in Venezuela and thus responsible for day to day life in a large country, where there appears to be no US troops.
Remember Hillary Clinton laughing about Gaddafi's fate?
"I was in Junior High, dick-head!"
Hearts 5/4 to win, Celtic 15/8, Rangers 2/1
Some boffin had a stat the other day that no team has ever won the Scottish top football division having suffered 5 league defeats before new year. Can't see Celtic winning the league if Nancy stays any longer
Trump must be their national hero.
Though it is interesting that Russia don't seem to be pulling any strings here. Whose idea _was_ this?
Those with a brain have long advocated getting rid of oil from the transport chain, as an alternative.
On to Cuba now.
“Cuba is gonna be something we end up talking about” says Trump.
Rubio adds “if I lived in Havana and I was in the government I’d be concerned”.
https://x.com/WalshFreedom/status/2007482256622043362?s=20
However, I understand the neglect of Venezuelan oil fields has been so long-standing that it'll take quite some time for a significant enough an increase to impact global supply materially. That relies on stability going forward such that US companies are willing to invest there. It's clearly too early to comment on whether that will be the end result.
Are the first boots on the ground going to welcomed, or attacked?
If nothing else, as an American oil company I wouldn't send any staff there without US troops securing the sites
Trump has many faults but theres worse out there.
Instead we’re too busy upping welfare payments. We are clearly in a world where strength matters.
At least the nazis actually hosted an Olympics before they started invading their neighbors.