Wes Streeting displays absolutely no subtlety as he goes on manoeuvres – politicalbetting.com

System · 7:20AM

Wes Streeting displays absolutely no subtlety as he goes on manoeuvres – politicalbetting.com

Wes Streeting has defied Sir Keir Starmer and suggested Britain should join a customs union with Europe, as a poll for The Times shows eight out of ten Labour voters support the move https://t.co/2lZGi72iXG

Read the full story here

MarqueeMark · 7:21AM

FPT

But...at the 2024 general election, the Labour Party polled exactly 10% more than the Conservative Party. Labour is now BEHIND the Conservatives. That is AN achievement.

If - as I expect - the Tories are polling ahead of both Labour and Reform by the end of 2026, then they will have much to thank Kemi Badenoch for.

IanB2 · 7:22AM

As I said yesterday, Wes needs something popular with Labour members that doesn’t involve him backing the left. There aren’t many candidates

IanB2 · 7:24AM

MarqueeMark said:
FPT

But...at the 2024 general election, the Labour Party polled exactly 10% more than the Conservative Party. Labour is now BEHIND the Conservatives. That is AN achievement.

If - as I expect - the Tories are polling ahead of both Labour and Reform by the end of 2026, then they will have much to thank Kemi Badenoch for.

If you’re slowly bleeding to death, seeing someone else having their head chopped off is hardly an achievement?

TheScreamingEagles · 7:24AM

Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.

ydoethur · 7:26AM

TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.

Is that a subtle irony?

Sandpit · 7:29AM

Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.

TheScreamingEagles · 7:30AM

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.

Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.

Morris_Dancer · 7:30AM

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.

Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.

Sandpit · 7:31AM

Ukraine is definitely having a good morning.

First one Russian general finds himself liquidated with a Moscow car bomb, and now video emerges of two Russian fighter jets taken out by partisans well inside Russia.

https://x.com/bayraktar_1love/status/2002994813029732530

The Kremlin must now be thinking they have a severe problem with Ukranian actors on Russian soil, it’s not just the drones any more.

Foxy · 7:31AM

IanB2 said:
As I said yesterday, Wes needs something popular with Labour members that doesn’t involve him backing the left. There aren’t many candidates

His problem is that it won't be a coronation and his rival(s) are likely to take the same approch to slow Rejoin.

TheScreamingEagles · 7:31AM

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.
Is that a subtle irony?

I do no other type of irony.

Sandpit · 7:32AM

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.

Oh, and all of the post-Brexit trade agreements, including with the US and the CP-TPP, will need to be torn up in order to rejoin anything EU-based.

Sandpit · 7:34AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.
Is that a subtle irony?
I do no other types of irony.

As subtle as Anthony Joshua fighting against an amateur.

Benpointer · 7:34AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.
Is that a subtle irony?
I do no other type of irony.

Probably best to stick to your core strength: modesty.

Battlebus · 7:35AM

Is there a book on how many Labour PM's there will be before the next General Election. Perhaps politics is going to descend into internecine political warfare just to keep the media happy.

IanB2 · 7:35AM

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.

That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.

AnneJGP · 7:36AM

Reads to me as though Wes Streeting's remedy for crushing debt and heavy taxation is to commit to further vast expenditure.

IanB2 · 7:36AM

Foxy said:

IanB2 said:
As I said yesterday, Wes needs something popular with Labour members that doesn’t involve him backing the left. There aren’t many candidates
His problem is that it won't be a coronation and his rival(s) are likely to take the same approch to slow Rejoin.

You’re probably right. Further, while Streeting is likely trying to keep his options open by saying “a” customs union, it’s “the” customs union that members want to join, and any contest is likely to push the candidates towards making this explicit.

Sandpit · 7:37AM

Apparently Russia is now selling off their gold reserves to pay bills. Nearly $2bn so far this year, with China the buyer.

https://x.com/maria_drutska/status/2002999042008383963

They’ll be selling Vladivostok to the Chinese next.

AnneJGP · 7:38AM

Sandpit said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
Oh, and all of the post-Brexit trade agreements, including with the US and the CP-TPP, will need to be torn up in order to rejoin anything EU-based.

Yes but they were Tory trade agreements so don't matter/ don't count.

Alanbrooke · 7:39AM

Sandpit said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
Oh, and all of the post-Brexit trade agreements, including with the US and the CP-TPP, will need to be torn up in order to rejoin anything EU-based.

I do rather enjoy the way Remainers studiously ignore the politics of the EU since we left.

Currently we are missing the fight on Mercosur, the perennial budget dispute and the death of the AI industry. Not forgetting of course the reverse gear on car emissions.

MarqueeMark · 7:40AM

IanB2 said:

MarqueeMark said:
FPT

But...at the 2024 general election, the Labour Party polled exactly 10% more than the Conservative Party. Labour is now BEHIND the Conservatives. That is AN achievement.

If - as I expect - the Tories are polling ahead of both Labour and Reform by the end of 2026, then they will have much to thank Kemi Badenoch for.
If you’re slowly bleeding to death, seeing someone else having their head chopped off is hardly an achievement?

But the bleeding has been staunched in 2025. The Conservative Party is in a better position now than it was in the summer. The same cannot be said of Labour.

This chart gives the shits for Labour, Reform, the LibDems...and people trying to ignore it is frankly hilarious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#/media/File:Opinion_polling_graph_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election_(post-2024).svg

Luckyguy1983 · 7:41AM

There's a lot of engineering him into position I think, and Starmer is clearly on board - not sure how else someone openly campaigning for the top job is still in the Cabinet. He is the annointed successor - and always was.

For that reason, I don't think he makes it.

Dopermean · 7:42AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.

That's easy for you to say in foresight.

Alanbrooke · 7:42AM

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.

Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.

Nigelb · 7:44AM

TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.

He'll be getting your vote then ?

ydoethur · 7:45AM

Sandpit said:
Apparently Russia is now selling off their gold reserves to pay bills. Nearly $2bn so far this year, with China the buyer.

https://x.com/maria_drutska/status/2002999042008383963

They’ll be selling Vladivostok to the Chinese next.

that is very interesting indeed, given that the price of gold on the international market is hitting record highs. That shouldn't be happening if a major currency is selling off major portions of its gold reserves.

That does suggest that the current gold price might be something of a bubble, and if it is the Chinese will get severely burned by it which would be extremely sad.

Morris_Dancer · 7:45AM

F1: if you want a laugh, you can compare how my predictions stacked up against what actually happened in 2025:
https://medium.com/formula-one-forever/f1-2025-rating-my-predictions-5ba196792920

geoffw · 7:46AM

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.

Softly softly catchee monkey

DecrepiterJohnL · 7:47AM

Foxy said:

IanB2 said:
As I said yesterday, Wes needs something popular with Labour members that doesn’t involve him backing the left. There aren’t many candidates
His problem is that it won't be a coronation and his rival(s) are likely to take the same approch to slow Rejoin.

No, Wes's problem is that his party might take the view that now is the time for a woman to lead Labour.

His advantage is that many Labour backbenchers, worried about retaining seats they unexpectedly won in the 2024 landslide, might be wary of Ed Miliband who has already lost a general election. It is even likely that Miliband himself realises this and is aiming instead at Number 11. I gather some PB shrewdies have taken 33/1 against such a contingency.

Nigelb · 7:47AM

Alanbrooke said:

Sandpit said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
Oh, and all of the post-Brexit trade agreements, including with the US and the CP-TPP, will need to be torn up in order to rejoin anything EU-based.
I do rather enjoy the way Remainers studiously ignore the politics of the EU since we left.

Currently we are missing the fight on Mercosur, the perennial budget dispute and the death of the AI industry. Not forgetting of course the reverse gear on car emissions.

You're just making the case why they need us back.

IanB2 · 7:47AM

Anyhow, with the Great Escape on the BBC TV TWICE over the festive period, rejoice that this year Steve McQueen will get two chances to clear that fence…

Morris_Dancer · 7:49AM

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.

German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.

MarqueeMark · 7:50AM

Sandpit said:
Apparently Russia is now selling off their gold reserves to pay bills. Nearly $2bn so far this year, with China the buyer.

https://x.com/maria_drutska/status/2002999042008383963

They’ll be selling Vladivostok to the Chinese next.

Putin's cronies are also trading gold for roubles on a massive scale.

Whoever succeeds Putin is going to discover Mother Russia faces the mother of all economic shit shows.

China will be able to buy land east of the Urals at 5c on the ruble.

Benpointer · 7:51AM

Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.

What makes you think May would have agreed it, since it clearly breached her red lines?

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

If she was prepared to agree to a Norwegian approach why the feck didn't she herself propose it? She was after all the Prime Minister.

Foxy · 7:51AM

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Foxy said:

IanB2 said:
As I said yesterday, Wes needs something popular with Labour members that doesn’t involve him backing the left. There aren’t many candidates
His problem is that it won't be a coronation and his rival(s) are likely to take the same approch to slow Rejoin.
No, Wes's problem is that his party might take the view that now is the time for a woman to lead Labour.

His advantage is that many Labour backbenchers, worried about retaining seats they unexpectedly won in the 2024 landslide, might be wary of Ed Miliband who has already lost a general election. It is even likely that Miliband himself realises this and is aiming instead at Number 11. I gather some PB shrewdies have taken 33/1 against such a contingency.

That too.

I don't think the members want Streeting.

Morris_Dancer · 7:52AM

geoffw said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
Softly softly catchee monkey

Mr. W, bullshitting the electorate (see also a refusal to hold the promised referendum on Lisbon) is a good way to antagonise them again.

There's a case to be made for joining the EU, a case that's much easier thanks to America going crazy. Tying us into obeying EU diktats without a say then using that to try and force us back in is dishonest and dishonourable. Even worse, it's dumb.

The electorate has showed itself previously and currently willing to vote for a Faragian political vehicle if the political 'mainstream' decides to go full steam ahead with pro-EU stuff against the wishes of the electorate. I do not want an imbecile who's soft on Russia to end up in Number 10 because the left decide to throw away our decision-making power to a political body the voters chose to leave.

IanB2 · 7:53AM

MarqueeMark said:

IanB2 said:

MarqueeMark said:
FPT

But...at the 2024 general election, the Labour Party polled exactly 10% more than the Conservative Party. Labour is now BEHIND the Conservatives. That is AN achievement.

If - as I expect - the Tories are polling ahead of both Labour and Reform by the end of 2026, then they will have much to thank Kemi Badenoch for.
If you’re slowly bleeding to death, seeing someone else having their head chopped off is hardly an achievement?
But the bleeding has been staunched in 2025. The Conservative Party is in a better position now than it was in the summer. The same cannot be said of Labour.

This chart gives the shits for Labour, Reform, the LibDems...and people trying to ignore it is frankly hilarious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election#/media/File:Opinion_polling_graph_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election_(post-2024).svg

Labour actually benefits, the closer those two blue lines are. Of course, you’re assuming the very recent, very small, trend will continue beyond crossover, which currently is more hope than expectation

Dura_Ace · 7:56AM

Starmer's Redform UK policy has clearly run out of road and the economy needs a pull on the crack pipe. So what's left that they can actually get past the PLP? Stealth rejoin squired by the Ilford Boy Wonder.

The tories/Fukkers will probably prefer this as well. As the moment they are stuck trying to make the nuanced argument that the economy is shit because of Labour but not shit because of Brexit. That's a difficult and ambiguous position to make to their monobrowed (Fukkers) and dementia stricken (tories) core voters.

"WesLife", "WesWorld" or "Go Wes, Young Man" would all have been superior thread titles.

rkrkrk · 7:56AM

Luckyguy1983 said:
There's a lot of engineering him into position I think, and Starmer is clearly on board - not sure how else someone openly campaigning for the top job is still in the Cabinet. He is the annointed successor - and always was.

For that reason, I don't think he makes it.

Doubt he is anointed. There was number 10 briefing against him about a month ago.

IMO wouldn't be surprised if Starmer sacks him, says he needs to bring someone in to end the strikes.

TheScreamingEagles · 7:57AM

Dura_Ace said:
Starmer's Redform UK policy has clearly run out of road and the economy needs a pull on the crack pipe. So what's left that they can actually get past the PLP? Stealth rejoin squired by the Ilford Boy Wonder.

The tories/Fukkers will probably prefer this as well. As the moment they are stuck trying to make the nuanced argument that the economy is shit because of Labour but not shit because of Brexit. That's a difficult and ambiguous position to make to their monobrowed (Fukkers) and dementia stricken (tories) core voters.

"WesLife", "WesWorld" or "Go Wes, Young Man" would all have been superior thread titles.

I am so nicking those.

IanB2 · 8:01AM

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Foxy said:

IanB2 said:
As I said yesterday, Wes needs something popular with Labour members that doesn’t involve him backing the left. There aren’t many candidates
His problem is that it won't be a coronation and his rival(s) are likely to take the same approch to slow Rejoin.
No, Wes's problem is that his party might take the view that now is the time for a woman to lead Labour.

His advantage is that many Labour backbenchers, worried about retaining seats they unexpectedly won in the 2024 landslide, might be wary of Ed Miliband who has already lost a general election. It is even likely that Miliband himself realises this and is aiming instead at Number 11. I gather some PB shrewdies have taken 33/1 against such a contingency.

Streeting and Reeves are very close, however, and if he gets the top job while she's still in post, I doubt he would shift her.

bondegezou · 8:01AM

Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.

May’s red lines clearly ruled out a Norway model. It’s May’s and Cameron’s decisions that killed that option.

ydoethur · 8:01AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dura_Ace said:
Starmer's Redform UK policy has clearly run out of road and the economy needs a pull on the crack pipe. So what's left that they can actually get past the PLP? Stealth rejoin squired by the Ilford Boy Wonder.

The tories/Fukkers will probably prefer this as well. As the moment they are stuck trying to make the nuanced argument that the economy is shit because of Labour but not shit because of Brexit. That's a difficult and ambiguous position to make to their monobrowed (Fukkers) and dementia stricken (tories) core voters.

"WesLife", "WesWorld" or "Go Wes, Young Man" would all have been superior thread titles.
I am so nicking those.

Once Upon A Time In the Wes?

How the Wes Won?

And his supporters should be the Wes Wing.

Foxy · 8:02AM

Morris_Dancer said:

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.
German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.

The 3rd generaation EVs from Mercedes and BMW look pretty good value and have decent performance.

In any case surely according to PB Free Traders competition spurs progress and is an advantage to customers.

There is also these innovations from BYD:

https://insideevs.com/features/782245/byd-breathrough-2026-megawatt-charging/

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/21/byd-launched-home-charging-station-sharing-service-among-vehicle-owners-on-its-app/

Nigelb · 8:03AM

.

Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.

May was prepared to agree to nothing like a Norway option.

kinabalu · 8:07AM

Nigelb said:
.
Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.
May was prepared to agree to nothing like a Norway option.

Because the party would have axed her if she did.

Sandpit · 8:07AM

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.
German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.
The 3rd generaation EVs from Mercedes and BMW look pretty good value and have decent performance.

In any case surely according to PB Free Traders competition spurs progress and is an advantage to customers.

There is also these innovations from BYD:

https://insideevs.com/features/782245/byd-breathrough-2026-megawatt-charging/

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/21/byd-launched-home-charging-station-sharing-service-among-vehicle-owners-on-its-app/

The problem is that the BYD is half the price of the Mercedes or BMW, and not a lot different in performance or specification.

The battery side, range and charge time, is actually going to be better on the Chinese than the German vehicles.

IanB2 · 8:08AM

Benpointer said:

Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.
What makes you think May would have agreed it, since it clearly breached her red lines?

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

If she was prepared to agree to a Norwegian approach why the feck didn't she herself propose it? She was after all the Prime Minister.

Alan is right that the pro-EU MPs missed the chance to try and make something of the Letwin process, instead sticking to their purist position and voting down all the compromise options. Even the handful of LibDems switching could have seen the Customs Union proposal go forward - something I berated them about at the time, and a key reason why I left the party for some years thereafter. But it's a massive leap from that Letwin 'indicative vote' - which was unprecedented in parliamentary history - and actually having the Customs Union option delivered - the chances of one having led to the other would have depended on a whole host of politics and a whole series of subsequent steps, including May being willing to play ball (and even if she had, Johnson would probably have then seen his chance to strike...)

TheScreamingEagles · 8:08AM

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dura_Ace said:
Starmer's Redform UK policy has clearly run out of road and the economy needs a pull on the crack pipe. So what's left that they can actually get past the PLP? Stealth rejoin squired by the Ilford Boy Wonder.

The tories/Fukkers will probably prefer this as well. As the moment they are stuck trying to make the nuanced argument that the economy is shit because of Labour but not shit because of Brexit. That's a difficult and ambiguous position to make to their monobrowed (Fukkers) and dementia stricken (tories) core voters.

"WesLife", "WesWorld" or "Go Wes, Young Man" would all have been superior thread titles.
I am so nicking those.
Once Upon A Time In the Wes?

How the Wes Won?

And his supporters should be the Wes Wing.

Stolen too.

Foxy · 8:09AM

Benpointer said:

Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.
What makes you think May would have agreed it, since it clearly breached her red lines?

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

If she was prepared to agree to a Norwegian approach why the feck didn't she herself propose it? She was after all the Prime Minister.

The only two logical positions in the long term are full fat Rejoin and and full Juche Brexit.

The salami treatment on Brexit of Customs Union, then Single Market are just steps on the way.

IanB2 · 8:10AM

Dura_Ace said:
Starmer's Redform UK policy has clearly run out of road and the economy needs a pull on the crack pipe. So what's left that they can actually get past the PLP? Stealth rejoin squired by the Ilford Boy Wonder.

The tories/Fukkers will probably prefer this as well. As the moment they are stuck trying to make the nuanced argument that the economy is shit because of Labour but not shit because of Brexit. That's a difficult and ambiguous position to make to their monobrowed (Fukkers) and dementia stricken (tories) core voters.

"WesLife", "WesWorld" or "Go Wes, Young Man" would all have been superior thread titles.

If I know TSE, he will tuck those away...

Nigelb · 8:11AM

kinabalu said:

Nigelb said:
.
Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.
May was prepared to agree to nothing like a Norway option.
Because the party would have axed her if she did.

True.
No one came out of the post referendum process very well. But Alan is, to use his own epithet, a bit of a wanker to try and reinvent history like that.

rkrkrk · 8:13AM

A streeting named desire?

Foxy · 8:14AM

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.
German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.
The 3rd generaation EVs from Mercedes and BMW look pretty good value and have decent performance.

In any case surely according to PB Free Traders competition spurs progress and is an advantage to customers.

There is also these innovations from BYD:

https://insideevs.com/features/782245/byd-breathrough-2026-megawatt-charging/

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/21/byd-launched-home-charging-station-sharing-service-among-vehicle-owners-on-its-app/
The problem is that the BYD is half the price of the Mercedes or BMW, and not a lot different in performance or specification.

The battery side, range and charge time, is actually going to be better on the Chinese than the German vehicles.

Yes. BYD has the competitive advantage, but the Germans are belatedly catching up.

Good for consumers.

Its the Japanese and particularly the US manufacturers that are stuck making Model T Fords.

Sandpit · 8:16AM

It appears that we may have found good use for AI after all…

https://spectator.com/article/ai-will-kill-all-the-lawyers/

Theuniondivvie · 8:16AM

rkrkrk said:
A streeting named desire?

Coronation (or not) Streeting.

RochdalePioneers · 8:17AM

Chatting with a trusted source on Friday. The inevitability of Starmer's ousting and Streeting being up next isn't even a debate it would seem...

eek · 8:21AM

Sandpit said:
It appears that we may have found good use for AI after all…

https://spectator.com/article/ai-will-kill-all-the-lawyers/

Except an LLM at the moment will report case law that isn't fact or often an actual case in UK law..

Reality is LLM's are great if you are an executive who vaguely cares about costs but absolutely useless if your job requires the small details to be 100% correct...

As a counter point here is what happened when Anthropic tested their vending machine app in the Wall Street Journal..

https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/anthropic-claude-ai-vending-machine-agent-b7e84e34?mod=hp_lead_pos7#comments_sector

Sandpit · 8:22AM

ydoethur said:

Sandpit said:
Apparently Russia is now selling off their gold reserves to pay bills. Nearly $2bn so far this year, with China the buyer.

https://x.com/maria_drutska/status/2002999042008383963

They’ll be selling Vladivostok to the Chinese next.
that is very interesting indeed, given that the price of gold on the international market is hitting record highs. That shouldn't be happening if a major currency is selling off major portions of its gold reserves.

That does suggest that the current gold price might be something of a bubble, and if it is the Chinese will get severely burned by it which would be extremely sad.

One might reasonably suspect that the Chinese price paid for Russian gold, bears as much of a resemblance to the globally-traded price as does the sale price of Russian oil.

There’s been rumours around for a while that the gold price is so high because the Chinese are buying up almost all of the production, in a long-term strategy aimed at devaluing the US$.

TheScreamingEagles · 8:24AM

rkrkrk said:
A streeting named desire?

I used that last month.

https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/11/15/a-streeting-named-desire/

Dura_Ace · 8:26AM

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.
German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.
The 3rd generaation EVs from Mercedes and BMW look pretty good value and have decent performance.

In any case surely according to PB Free Traders competition spurs progress and is an advantage to customers.

There is also these innovations from BYD:

https://insideevs.com/features/782245/byd-breathrough-2026-megawatt-charging/

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/21/byd-launched-home-charging-station-sharing-service-among-vehicle-owners-on-its-app/
The problem is that the BYD is half the price of the Mercedes or BMW, and not a lot different in performance or specification.

The battery side, range and charge time, is actually going to be better on the Chinese than the German vehicles.

The are nowhere near the half the price. I recently rented a BYD Sealion and Audi Q4 e-tron in quick succession so I looked up the UK prices. I could probably get the BYD for about 45 grand and the Audi for about 47 with some Dura negotiating techniques. The BYD's rear suspension was shit garbage and looked suspiciously like a CTRL-C/CTRL-V of a Qashqai (the AWD one, not the cheapo torsion bar 2WD) but the interior fit and finish was better than the Audi. I'd have the Audi out of the two mainly because it'll have better residuals.

In other BEV news, Mrs DA's new lease i5 M60 arrived at sparrowfart on Friday. I got it mainly because that c--t Harry Metcalfe didn't like it. It definitely has some BMW M DNA in it and is pretty fast (0-125mph in 13.0s on the Dragy) but not proper fast (Tributo when it works: 7.7s!) There is no credible Chinese competition yet for a product like that.

TheScreamingEagles · 8:28AM

Nigelb said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.
He'll be getting your vote then ?

Yes for several reasons and none of them to do with politics.

First of all his name brilliant for punning.

Secondly, he's a Cambridge gentleman, which is only one rung below being a lawyer in the awesomeness stakes.

TheScreamingEagles · 8:30AM

Sandpit said:
It appears that we may have found good use for AI after all…

https://spectator.com/article/ai-will-kill-all-the-lawyers/

Phew, it's written by the winner of a bad sex writing award, when it comes to him and technology, he's like Sion Simon and general elections.

Shall I remind you all about what Sean Thomas said about What.Three.Words?

DavidL · 8:31AM

It may be that the rank incompetence and dishonesty shown by Starmer and Reeves in both the run up to and the budget itself will prove fatal. It certainly hasn't done the UK economy any good whatsoever: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/dec/22/uk-economy-entering-2026-amid-sharp-private-sector-downturn-says-cbi

We certainly cannot afford much more of that nonsense. And it obviously suits some to claim this poor economic performance is caused by Brexit as opposed to that ineptitude. But I think we could do without Reform getting the inevitable boost that they would get from such distractions.

Dura_Ace · 8:35AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
It appears that we may have found good use for AI after all…

https://spectator.com/article/ai-will-kill-all-the-lawyers/
Phew, it's written by the winner of a bad sex writing award, when it comes to him and technology, he's like Sion Simon and general elections.

Shall I remind you all about what Sean Thomas said about What.Three.Words?

He reminds me of a less intelligent version of Pursewarden in the Alexandra Quartet. He's not a bad person, he's just got a really shitty personality.

Sandpit · 8:36AM

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.
German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.
The 3rd generaation EVs from Mercedes and BMW look pretty good value and have decent performance.

In any case surely according to PB Free Traders competition spurs progress and is an advantage to customers.

There is also these innovations from BYD:

https://insideevs.com/features/782245/byd-breathrough-2026-megawatt-charging/

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/21/byd-launched-home-charging-station-sharing-service-among-vehicle-owners-on-its-app/
The problem is that the BYD is half the price of the Mercedes or BMW, and not a lot different in performance or specification.

The battery side, range and charge time, is actually going to be better on the Chinese than the German vehicles.
The are nowhere near the half the price. I recently rented a BYD Sealion and Audi Q4 e-tron in quick succession so I looked up the UK prices. I could probably get the BYD for about 45 grand and the Audi for about 47 with some Dura negotiating techniques. The BYD's rear suspension was shit garbage and looked suspiciously like a CTRL-C/CTRL-V of a Qashqai (the AWD one, not the cheapo torsion bar 2WD) but the interior fit and finish was better than the Audi. I'd have the Audi out of the two mainly because it'll have better residuals.

In other BEV news, Mrs DA's new lease i5 M60 arrived at sparrowfart on Friday. I got it mainly because that c--t Harry Metcalfe didn't like it. It definitely has some BMW M DNA in it and is pretty fast (0-125mph in 13.0s on the Dragy) but not proper fast (Tributo when it works: 7.7s!) There is no credible Chinese competition yet for a product like that.

Your comparison is the previous-generation cars though, the new ones such as the Merc EQS are coming in way higher than the Chinese equivalents. Residuals on anything electric is crap at the moment, because no-one wants to buy used ones. The finance companies are even resorting to leasing used EVs to try and hold up the market.

What did Harry Metcalfe do to upset you? He’s one of the best motoring journalists in the country, and has a barn full of very nice cars to boot.

Morris_Dancer · 8:37AM

DavidL said:
It may be that the rank incompetence and dishonesty shown by Starmer and Reeves in both the run up to and the budget itself will prove fatal. It certainly hasn't done the UK economy any good whatsoever: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/dec/22/uk-economy-entering-2026-amid-sharp-private-sector-downturn-says-cbi

We certainly cannot afford much more of that nonsense. And it obviously suits some to claim this poor economic performance is caused by Brexit as opposed to that ineptitude. But I think we could do without Reform getting the inevitable boost that they would get from such distractions.

It's bizarre that they talked the economy down for the first six months or so of their government and didn't learn the lesson before proceeding to fly every kite in the world before the Budget and then being surprised it had a negative effect. As if people don't make plans and take actions if they think their financial situation could change.

IanB2 · 8:37AM

rkrkrk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
There's a lot of engineering him into position I think, and Starmer is clearly on board - not sure how else someone openly campaigning for the top job is still in the Cabinet. He is the annointed successor - and always was.

For that reason, I don't think he makes it.
Doubt he is anointed. There was number 10 briefing against him about a month ago.

IMO wouldn't be surprised if Starmer sacks him, says he needs to bring someone in to end the strikes.

I think it depends on how desperate Labour becomes, which itself depends on how catastrophic the local elections are. If Labour has a true mare - for example losing control of London Boroughs which they currently run with large majorities - then switching to Streeting might be on the cards. The one caveat is if the big winner in the cities happens to be the Greens, Labour members might conclude that being more radical and passionate and tacking left is what's required.

Benpointer · 8:38AM

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.
German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.
The 3rd generaation EVs from Mercedes and BMW look pretty good value and have decent performance.

In any case surely according to PB Free Traders competition spurs progress and is an advantage to customers.

There is also these innovations from BYD:

https://insideevs.com/features/782245/byd-breathrough-2026-megawatt-charging/

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/21/byd-launched-home-charging-station-sharing-service-among-vehicle-owners-on-its-app/
The problem is that the BYD is half the price of the Mercedes or BMW, and not a lot different in performance or specification.

The battery side, range and charge time, is actually going to be better on the Chinese than the German vehicles.
The are nowhere near the half the price. I recently rented a BYD Sealion and Audi Q4 e-tron in quick succession so I looked up the UK prices. I could probably get the BYD for about 45 grand and the Audi for about 47 with some Dura negotiating techniques. The BYD's rear suspension was shit garbage and looked suspiciously like a CTRL-C/CTRL-V of a Qashqai (the AWD one, not the cheapo torsion bar 2WD) but the interior fit and finish was better than the Audi. I'd have the Audi out of the two mainly because it'll have better residuals.

In other BEV news, Mrs DA's new lease i5 M60 arrived at sparrowfart on Friday. I got it mainly because that c--t Harry Metcalfe didn't like it. It definitely has some BMW M DNA in it and is pretty fast (0-125mph in 13.0s on the Dragy) but not proper fast (Tributo when it works: 7.7s!) There is no credible Chinese competition yet for a product like that.

1. That's twice in as many days 'sparrowfart' has appeared on PB - a word unknown to me three days ago.

2. I need to replace our two cars next year and for the first time in my life I find the car market a complete mystery - due to baffling new brands and new technologies, I haven't got an effin' clue. I must be getting old. (I'll have to seek advice from PBcars.com.)

HYUFD · 8:39AM

Streeting's rejoin a customs union policy would also align with what the LDs now propose in the event of a hung parliament. He has ruled out rejoining the single market though while it requires free movement which suggests he still has an eye on the redwall too

TheScreamingEagles · 8:40AM

IanB2 said:

Dura_Ace said:
Starmer's Redform UK policy has clearly run out of road and the economy needs a pull on the crack pipe. So what's left that they can actually get past the PLP? Stealth rejoin squired by the Ilford Boy Wonder.

The tories/Fukkers will probably prefer this as well. As the moment they are stuck trying to make the nuanced argument that the economy is shit because of Labour but not shit because of Brexit. That's a difficult and ambiguous position to make to their monobrowed (Fukkers) and dementia stricken (tories) core voters.

"WesLife", "WesWorld" or "Go Wes, Young Man" would all have been superior thread titles.
If I know TSE, he will tuck those away...

Good writers borrow, great writers steal outright.

Carnyx · 8:44AM

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dura_Ace said:
Starmer's Redform UK policy has clearly run out of road and the economy needs a pull on the crack pipe. So what's left that they can actually get past the PLP? Stealth rejoin squired by the Ilford Boy Wonder.

The tories/Fukkers will probably prefer this as well. As the moment they are stuck trying to make the nuanced argument that the economy is shit because of Labour but not shit because of Brexit. That's a difficult and ambiguous position to make to their monobrowed (Fukkers) and dementia stricken (tories) core voters.

"WesLife", "WesWorld" or "Go Wes, Young Man" would all have been superior thread titles.
I am so nicking those.
Once Upon A Time In the Wes?

How the Wes Won?

And his supporters should be the Wes Wing.

His voters in the Weswall. Edit: not suggesting any political affiliation ...

Carnyx · 8:45AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

IanB2 said:

Dura_Ace said:
Starmer's Redform UK policy has clearly run out of road and the economy needs a pull on the crack pipe. So what's left that they can actually get past the PLP? Stealth rejoin squired by the Ilford Boy Wonder.

The tories/Fukkers will probably prefer this as well. As the moment they are stuck trying to make the nuanced argument that the economy is shit because of Labour but not shit because of Brexit. That's a difficult and ambiguous position to make to their monobrowed (Fukkers) and dementia stricken (tories) core voters.

"WesLife", "WesWorld" or "Go Wes, Young Man" would all have been superior thread titles.
If I know TSE, he will tuck those away...
Good writers borrow, great writers steal outright.

But the real genius ones dream it up themselves.

ydoethur · 8:50AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.
He'll be getting your vote then ?
Yes for several reasons and none of them to do with politics.

First of all his name brilliant for punning.

Secondly, he's a Cambridge gentleman, which is only one rung below being a lawyer in the awesomeness stakes.

Who was the last Cambridge educated PM?

Am I right in thinking it was Stanley Baldwin?

bondegezou · 8:50AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
It appears that we may have found good use for AI after all…

https://spectator.com/article/ai-will-kill-all-the-lawyers/
Phew, it's written by the winner of a bad sex writing award, when it comes to him and technology, he's like Sion Simon and general elections.

Shall I remind you all about what Sean Thomas said about What.Three.Words?

Isn’t he that fellow who claimed that LLMs had become conscious?

FF43 · 8:50AM

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.

When the only formally rejected option is by far the best option, as most people now know, by definition you're dealing with suboptimal outcomes.

The people still rejecting that option have fallen back on process difficulties because they don't appear to have any arguments. I'm not sure that's more honest.

ydoethur · 8:51AM

bondegezou said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
It appears that we may have found good use for AI after all…

https://spectator.com/article/ai-will-kill-all-the-lawyers/
Phew, it's written by the winner of a bad sex writing award, when it comes to him and technology, he's like Sion Simon and general elections.

Shall I remind you all about what Sean Thomas said about What.Three.Words?
Isn’t he that fellow who claimed that LLMs had become conscious?

Probably more conscious than he usually was at five minutes past wine o'clock.

Stuartinromford · 8:53AM

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.
What makes you think May would have agreed it, since it clearly breached her red lines?

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

If she was prepared to agree to a Norwegian approach why the feck didn't she herself propose it? She was after all the Prime Minister.
The only two logical positions in the long term are full fat Rejoin and and full Juche Brexit.

The salami treatment on Brexit of Customs Union, then Single Market are just steps on the way.

All sorts of things are medium-term inevitable. Starmer leaving before the next election is one, full-fat Rejoin looks like another. Boris becoming PM was another one, as was collapsing due to his failures of temperament.

In many cases, the question is "how" and "when", not "what". The good news is that that's fun to speculate about. The bad news is that many of these processes take far longer than one might expect, and are bloody boring to live through.

Dura_Ace · 8:53AM

Sandpit said:

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.
German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.
The 3rd generaation EVs from Mercedes and BMW look pretty good value and have decent performance.

In any case surely according to PB Free Traders competition spurs progress and is an advantage to customers.

There is also these innovations from BYD:

https://insideevs.com/features/782245/byd-breathrough-2026-megawatt-charging/

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/21/byd-launched-home-charging-station-sharing-service-among-vehicle-owners-on-its-app/
The problem is that the BYD is half the price of the Mercedes or BMW, and not a lot different in performance or specification.

The battery side, range and charge time, is actually going to be better on the Chinese than the German vehicles.
The are nowhere near the half the price. I recently rented a BYD Sealion and Audi Q4 e-tron in quick succession so I looked up the UK prices. I could probably get the BYD for about 45 grand and the Audi for about 47 with some Dura negotiating techniques. The BYD's rear suspension was shit garbage and looked suspiciously like a CTRL-C/CTRL-V of a Qashqai (the AWD one, not the cheapo torsion bar 2WD) but the interior fit and finish was better than the Audi. I'd have the Audi out of the two mainly because it'll have better residuals.

In other BEV news, Mrs DA's new lease i5 M60 arrived at sparrowfart on Friday. I got it mainly because that c--t Harry Metcalfe didn't like it. It definitely has some BMW M DNA in it and is pretty fast (0-125mph in 13.0s on the Dragy) but not proper fast (Tributo when it works: 7.7s!) There is no credible Chinese competition yet for a product like that.
Your comparison is the previous-generation cars though, the new ones such as the Merc EQS are coming in way higher than the Chinese equivalents. Residuals on anything electric is crap at the moment, because no-one wants to buy used ones. The finance companies are even resorting to leasing used EVs to try and hold up the market.

What did Harry Metcalfe do to upset you? He’s one of the best motoring journalists in the country, and has a barn full of very nice cars to boot.

On paper I should like him because he's a fellow Paneristi but I suspect he is a leave voter and a tory. I also rarely agree with his reviews. Moaned about a GT3 RS having stiff suspension. WTF.

Dura_Ace · 8:54AM

Benpointer said:

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.
German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.
The 3rd generaation EVs from Mercedes and BMW look pretty good value and have decent performance.

In any case surely according to PB Free Traders competition spurs progress and is an advantage to customers.

There is also these innovations from BYD:

https://insideevs.com/features/782245/byd-breathrough-2026-megawatt-charging/

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/21/byd-launched-home-charging-station-sharing-service-among-vehicle-owners-on-its-app/
The problem is that the BYD is half the price of the Mercedes or BMW, and not a lot different in performance or specification.

The battery side, range and charge time, is actually going to be better on the Chinese than the German vehicles.
The are nowhere near the half the price. I recently rented a BYD Sealion and Audi Q4 e-tron in quick succession so I looked up the UK prices. I could probably get the BYD for about 45 grand and the Audi for about 47 with some Dura negotiating techniques. The BYD's rear suspension was shit garbage and looked suspiciously like a CTRL-C/CTRL-V of a Qashqai (the AWD one, not the cheapo torsion bar 2WD) but the interior fit and finish was better than the Audi. I'd have the Audi out of the two mainly because it'll have better residuals.

In other BEV news, Mrs DA's new lease i5 M60 arrived at sparrowfart on Friday. I got it mainly because that c--t Harry Metcalfe didn't like it. It definitely has some BMW M DNA in it and is pretty fast (0-125mph in 13.0s on the Dragy) but not proper fast (Tributo when it works: 7.7s!) There is no credible Chinese competition yet for a product like that.
1. That's twice in as many days 'sparrowfart' has appeared on PB - a word unknown to me three days ago.

2. I need to replace our two cars next year and for the first time in my life I find the car market a complete mystery - due to baffling new brands and new technologies, I haven't got an effin' clue. I must be getting old. (I'll have to seek advice from PBcars.com.)

Just Don't Get a Tesla.

ydoethur · 8:55AM

Dura_Ace said:

Benpointer said:

Dura_Ace said:

Sandpit said:

Foxy said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Dopermean said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Vox populi, vox dei.

We hold all the cards, it'll be the easiest deal in history, plus German car manufacturers as the EU needs us more than we need them.
That's easy for you to say in foresight.
German car manufacturers are currently dooming themselves by blocking tariffs on Chinese vehicles due to their 15% or so share of the Chinese market.
The 3rd generaation EVs from Mercedes and BMW look pretty good value and have decent performance.

In any case surely according to PB Free Traders competition spurs progress and is an advantage to customers.

There is also these innovations from BYD:

https://insideevs.com/features/782245/byd-breathrough-2026-megawatt-charging/

https://carnewschina.com/2025/12/21/byd-launched-home-charging-station-sharing-service-among-vehicle-owners-on-its-app/
The problem is that the BYD is half the price of the Mercedes or BMW, and not a lot different in performance or specification.

The battery side, range and charge time, is actually going to be better on the Chinese than the German vehicles.
The are nowhere near the half the price. I recently rented a BYD Sealion and Audi Q4 e-tron in quick succession so I looked up the UK prices. I could probably get the BYD for about 45 grand and the Audi for about 47 with some Dura negotiating techniques. The BYD's rear suspension was shit garbage and looked suspiciously like a CTRL-C/CTRL-V of a Qashqai (the AWD one, not the cheapo torsion bar 2WD) but the interior fit and finish was better than the Audi. I'd have the Audi out of the two mainly because it'll have better residuals.

In other BEV news, Mrs DA's new lease i5 M60 arrived at sparrowfart on Friday. I got it mainly because that c--t Harry Metcalfe didn't like it. It definitely has some BMW M DNA in it and is pretty fast (0-125mph in 13.0s on the Dragy) but not proper fast (Tributo when it works: 7.7s!) There is no credible Chinese competition yet for a product like that.
1. That's twice in as many days 'sparrowfart' has appeared on PB - a word unknown to me three days ago.

2. I need to replace our two cars next year and for the first time in my life I find the car market a complete mystery - due to baffling new brands and new technologies, I haven't got an effin' clue. I must be getting old. (I'll have to seek advice from PBcars.com.)
Just Don't Get a Tesla.

Are you sure? It's very fast. 0-1933 in 0 seconds.

Penddu2 · 9:03AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

Dura_Ace said:
Starmer's Redform UK policy has clearly run out of road and the economy needs a pull on the crack pipe. So what's left that they can actually get past the PLP? Stealth rejoin squired by the Ilford Boy Wonder.

The tories/Fukkers will probably prefer this as well. As the moment they are stuck trying to make the nuanced argument that the economy is shit because of Labour but not shit because of Brexit. That's a difficult and ambiguous position to make to their monobrowed (Fukkers) and dementia stricken (tories) core voters.

"WesLife", "WesWorld" or "Go Wes, Young Man" would all have been superior thread titles.
I am so nicking those.

Wes is Bes...

Peter_the_Punter · 9:06AM

@Carnyx

Hi C. Noticed you namechecking Winchcombe recently. You a local, or were you just passing through?

TheScreamingEagles · 9:09AM

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.
He'll be getting your vote then ?
Yes for several reasons and none of them to do with politics.

First of all his name brilliant for punning.

Secondly, he's a Cambridge gentleman, which is only one rung below being a lawyer in the awesomeness stakes.
Who was the last Cambridge educated PM?

Am I right in thinking it was Stanley Baldwin?

Yes.

stodge · 9:13AM

Morning all

There's lots of talk about "a customs union". As I understand it, a customs union means the two countries (or blocs) will trade freely with each other AND impose a common tariff (whatever that may be) on goods from non-member countries (well, that's what Wiki tells me).

Wiki also tells me there's a Free Trade Agreement where the first part happens but each side can have different tariffs on goods from other countries and then we have a "common market" which is not what we joined in 1973 and ratified in 1975 but the one under the Single European Act which includes the free movement of goods, capital, labour and services (the "Four Freedoms" or if you prefer, the Three Freedoms plus the other one).

Presumably, no one objects to free trade and therefore a Free Trade Agreement would seem to be the first step - then we have the Customs Union and I can see why some might get prickly. The other side may want to impose a 20% tariff on goods from Burkina Faso and Brazil, we might only want 10% - do we meet in the middle at 15%?

I don't know the intricacies but I can see why a Customs Union might be a useful first step but a Free Trade Agreement might suit more people (especially those whose antipathy towards the EU knows no bounds). Clearly, we cannot go back to any agreement which includes freedom of movement though that might change with time.

AugustusCarp2 · 9:16AM

TheScreamingEagles said:

ydoethur said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

Nigelb said:

TheScreamingEagles said:
Yes, I am aware of the irony of me calling out other people for a lack of subtlety.
He'll be getting your vote then ?
Yes for several reasons and none of them to do with politics.

First of all his name brilliant for punning.

Secondly, he's a Cambridge gentleman, which is only one rung below being a lawyer in the awesomeness stakes.
Who was the last Cambridge educated PM?

Am I right in thinking it was Stanley Baldwin?
Yes.

(Lee Kuan Yew, Prime Minister of Singapore.....)

stodge · 9:19AM

Foxy said:

Benpointer said:

Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.
What makes you think May would have agreed it, since it clearly breached her red lines?

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

If she was prepared to agree to a Norwegian approach why the feck didn't she herself propose it? She was after all the Prime Minister.
The only two logical positions in the long term are full fat Rejoin and and full Juche Brexit.

The salami treatment on Brexit of Customs Union, then Single Market are just steps on the way.

In truth, the only two coherent positions during our entire period of trying to join, joining, trying to leave and then leaving the EEC and the EU all the way from Messina to Brexit were, to quote the old song "put your whole self in, your whole self out".

We should EITHER have had nothing to do with the EEC/EU but wished it well and worked from the outside to obtain advantageous trading terms for the UK OR we should have gone in as enthusiastic members, taking on the Euro (renaming it the Crown or Florin perhaps), Schengen and pushing for full political and economic union (welcome to EuroFed).

We wasted more than 60 years on a half-hearted, mean-spirited, rebate obsessed, banana fixated notion of membership because the shadow of WW2 hung over us and we couldn't work out what our relationship with Europe was or should be. We thought we were an Imperial power and Europe needed us more than we needed them. That view was re-enforced by the nostalgia-obsessed media and cultural mores.

kinabalu · 9:20AM

Morris_Dancer said:

DavidL said:
It may be that the rank incompetence and dishonesty shown by Starmer and Reeves in both the run up to and the budget itself will prove fatal. It certainly hasn't done the UK economy any good whatsoever: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/dec/22/uk-economy-entering-2026-amid-sharp-private-sector-downturn-says-cbi

We certainly cannot afford much more of that nonsense. And it obviously suits some to claim this poor economic performance is caused by Brexit as opposed to that ineptitude. But I think we could do without Reform getting the inevitable boost that they would get from such distractions.
It's bizarre that they talked the economy down for the first six months or so of their government and didn't learn the lesson before proceeding to fly every kite in the world before the Budget and then being surprised it had a negative effect. As if people don't make plans and take actions if they think their financial situation could change.

They were seeking to emulate one of the most effective pieces of political spin in recorded history - copyright Conservatives 2009 and onwards - that Labour had bankrupted the country in the 00s with their reckless spending. So I wouldn't call it bizarre. You try and learn from the masters of any craft. But what I would call it is unsuccessful.

Carnyx · 9:20AM

Peter_the_Punter said:
@Carnyx

Hi C. Noticed you namechecking Winchcombe recently. You a local, or were you just passing through?

Me? Winchcombe? Not me, must have been someone else who mentioned it.

But I have been there, aeons ago. Dim memory of visiting on a student days tour with the archaeological handbook and CAMRA guide, very necessary in those days of fizzy keg ale.

Sean_F · 9:20AM

IanB2 said:

rkrkrk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
There's a lot of engineering him into position I think, and Starmer is clearly on board - not sure how else someone openly campaigning for the top job is still in the Cabinet. He is the annointed successor - and always was.

For that reason, I don't think he makes it.
Doubt he is anointed. There was number 10 briefing against him about a month ago.

IMO wouldn't be surprised if Starmer sacks him, says he needs to bring someone in to end the strikes.
I think it depends on how desperate Labour becomes, which itself depends on how catastrophic the local elections are. If Labour has a true mare - for example losing control of London Boroughs which they currently run with large majorities - then switching to Streeting might be on the cards. The one caveat is if the big winner in the cities happens to be the Greens, Labour members might conclude that being more radical and passionate and tacking left is what's required.

Labour won a NEV of 35% in 2022, and will probably win about 10-15% in May. Reform won nothing in 2022, and will probably win 25-30% next year. The Greens would surge, but the traditional outperformance in local elections by the Lib Dem’s will take a lot of votes that would otherwise go to them. The Conservatives will probably win 20-25%, compared to 30% in 2022.

What that likely means is Labour being hit on multiple fronts.

Boroughs like Barnsley, Wakefield, Sunderland, Halton, Sandwell, Thurrock will go Reform.

Islington, Hackney, Camden, Lambeth, Birmingham, Southwark, Brent, South Tyneside, will be lost to NOC at least (Your Party will also be challenging in some).

The Tories will lose a string of counties and new unitaries to Reform, but pick up Westminster, Barnet, Wandsworth,

And of course, the results in Wales and Scotland will be horrid.

Battlebus · 9:21AM

RochdalePioneers said:
Chatting with a trusted source on Friday. The inevitability of Starmer's ousting and Streeting being up next isn't even a debate it would seem...

Politics and a "trusted source" !! Shurley shome mistake?

Theuniondivvie · 9:21AM

As noted by TSE Twitter has reverted to pushing folk into the 'for you' feed as default. For me this morning it was this particulary unconvincing attempt at 'I'm not a cnut, honest'.

https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/2002753775891857886?s=20

bondegezou · 9:23AM

Sean_F said:

IanB2 said:

rkrkrk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
There's a lot of engineering him into position I think, and Starmer is clearly on board - not sure how else someone openly campaigning for the top job is still in the Cabinet. He is the annointed successor - and always was.

For that reason, I don't think he makes it.
Doubt he is anointed. There was number 10 briefing against him about a month ago.

IMO wouldn't be surprised if Starmer sacks him, says he needs to bring someone in to end the strikes.
I think it depends on how desperate Labour becomes, which itself depends on how catastrophic the local elections are. If Labour has a true mare - for example losing control of London Boroughs which they currently run with large majorities - then switching to Streeting might be on the cards. The one caveat is if the big winner in the cities happens to be the Greens, Labour members might conclude that being more radical and passionate and tacking left is what's required.
Labour won a NEV of 35% in 2022, and will probably win about 10-15% in May. Reform won nothing in 2022, and will probably win 25-30% next year. The Greens would surge, but the traditional outperformance in local elections by the Lib Dem’s will take a lot of votes that would otherwise go to them. The Conservatives will probably win 20-25%, compared to 30% in 2022.

What that likely means is Labour being hit on multiple fronts.

Boroughs like Barnsley, Wakefield, Sunderland, Halton, Sandwell, Thurrock will go Reform.

Islington, Hackney, Camden, Lambeth, Birmingham, Southwark, Brent, South Tyneside, will be lost to NOC at least (Your Party will also be challenging in some).

The Tories will lose a string of counties and new unitaries to Reform, but pick up Westminster, Barnet, Wandsworth,

And of course, the results in Wales and Scotland will be horrid.

Your Party will still be deep in in-fighting, I suspect!

Alanbrooke · 9:23AM

Nigelb said:

Alanbrooke said:

Sandpit said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
Oh, and all of the post-Brexit trade agreements, including with the US and the CP-TPP, will need to be torn up in order to rejoin anything EU-based.
I do rather enjoy the way Remainers studiously ignore the politics of the EU since we left.

Currently we are missing the fight on Mercosur, the perennial budget dispute and the death of the AI industry. Not forgetting of course the reverse gear on car emissions.
You're just making the case why they need us back.

They do, but why do I want to pay £30 billion a year so that I can be the odium magnet for everybody who wont stand up to the bureaucracy or France,s latest wheeze to cover their budget deficit ?

SandyRentool · 9:26AM

Sean_F said:

IanB2 said:

rkrkrk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
There's a lot of engineering him into position I think, and Starmer is clearly on board - not sure how else someone openly campaigning for the top job is still in the Cabinet. He is the annointed successor - and always was.

For that reason, I don't think he makes it.
Doubt he is anointed. There was number 10 briefing against him about a month ago.

IMO wouldn't be surprised if Starmer sacks him, says he needs to bring someone in to end the strikes.
I think it depends on how desperate Labour becomes, which itself depends on how catastrophic the local elections are. If Labour has a true mare - for example losing control of London Boroughs which they currently run with large majorities - then switching to Streeting might be on the cards. The one caveat is if the big winner in the cities happens to be the Greens, Labour members might conclude that being more radical and passionate and tacking left is what's required.
Labour won a NEV of 35% in 2022, and will probably win about 10-15% in May. Reform won nothing in 2022, and will probably win 25-30% next year. The Greens would surge, but the traditional outperformance in local elections by the Lib Dem’s will take a lot of votes that would otherwise go to them. The Conservatives will probably win 20-25%, compared to 30% in 2022.

What that likely means is Labour being hit on multiple fronts.

Boroughs like Barnsley, Wakefield, Sunderland, Halton, Sandwell, Thurrock will go Reform.

Islington, Hackney, Camden, Lambeth, Birmingham, Southwark, Brent, South Tyneside, will be lost to NOC at least (Your Party will also be challenging in some).

The Tories will lose a string of counties and new unitaries to Reform, but pick up Westminster, Barnet, Wandsworth,

And of course, the results in Wales and Scotland will be horrid.

In Bradford there are boundary changes so we have all-our elections. 90 councilors to be elected.

"All out" could be a summary of the results for our sitting councilors.

An unlikely cocktail of Reform and pro-Palestine councilors seizing the reigns of power.

Alanbrooke · 9:26AM

Benpointer said:

Alanbrooke said:

IanB2 said:

Morris_Dancer said:

Sandpit said:
Are we seriously back talking about what “A” customs union, rather than “THE” customs union, looks like in practice?

Ask the Turks what “A” CU looks like, it’s terribly one-sided.
Good morning, everyone.

Mr. Sandpit, easier (and less honest) to try and get us closer and closer to the EU then say "We may as well join seeing as we're already bound by their decisions but currently have no say" than it is to actually make a case for rejoining.
That approach has consistently failed to win over public opinion in Norway, however. But Norway was never foolish enough to volunteer for a damaging separation, and we would have been less foolish to have copied the Norwegian approach from the beginning.
Certainly. But then wankers like Ed Davey and Keir Starmer refused to map anything like that through Parliament when May would have agreed to it and now they are desperately trying to magic up what they could have had if they hadnt been prats.
What makes you think May would have agreed it, since it clearly breached her red lines?

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/the-governments-negotiating-objectives-for-exiting-the-eu-pm-speech

If she was prepared to agree to a Norwegian approach why the feck didn't she herself propose it? She was after all the Prime Minister.

She was a crap PM and towards the end torally desperate. However the "lets ignore the referendum" crew just wanted to play the vote till we get the right answer game and in doing so shot themselves in the foot.

Imagine - outwitted by Boris.

eek · 9:26AM

Theuniondivvie said:
As noted by TSE Twitter has reverted to pushing folk into the 'for you' feed as default. For me this morning it was this particulary unconvincing attempt at 'I'm not a cnut, honest'.

https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/2002753775891857886?s=20

Parents should never put children's faces on social media - and worse politicians shouldn't be using them to make themselves look human...

To say Liz Truss's children were screwed up when Twin A had to deal with them 2 years ago (at a Scout camp) is understating the issues they created.

edmundintokyo · 9:28AM

The BYDs are crazy cheap over here. Japanese people are double-prejudiced against both China and EVs but apparently their plan is just to keep discounting until somebody buys one and tells their friends that electric cars are not in fact total shite, that's just the Japanese ones.

I got the AWD version of the Seal and various extras that their highly effective ex-Nissan salespeople sold my wife on (I got back from the loo after agreeing to buy it and they were halfway to selling her a large mechanical digger) and it was only a little over 5 million yen which is like 24,000 GBP. Then a month later they announced a bunch of even bigger discounts.

With the subsidies and various discounts you can get a Dolphin for about 2 million yen which is under 10,000 GBP. I heard some people who have solar are buying new BYD Dolphins to use as storage batteries. The normal batteries sold by Nichicon etc are over 1 million yen for like 8 kWh, and a Dolphin gives you 45 kWh, lasts longer, and as an added bonus you can drive it around.

MustaphaMondeo · 9:29AM

Sean_F said:

IanB2 said:

rkrkrk said:

Luckyguy1983 said:
There's a lot of engineering him into position I think, and Starmer is clearly on board - not sure how else someone openly campaigning for the top job is still in the Cabinet. He is the annointed successor - and always was.

For that reason, I don't think he makes it.
Doubt he is anointed. There was number 10 briefing against him about a month ago.

IMO wouldn't be surprised if Starmer sacks him, says he needs to bring someone in to end the strikes.
I think it depends on how desperate Labour becomes, which itself depends on how catastrophic the local elections are. If Labour has a true mare - for example losing control of London Boroughs which they currently run with large majorities - then switching to Streeting might be on the cards. The one caveat is if the big winner in the cities happens to be the Greens, Labour members might conclude that being more radical and passionate and tacking left is what's required.
Labour won a NEV of 35% in 2022, and will probably win about 10-15% in May. Reform won nothing in 2022, and will probably win 25-30% next year. The Greens would surge, but the traditional outperformance in local elections by the Lib Dem’s will take a lot of votes that would otherwise go to them. The Conservatives will probably win 20-25%, compared to 30% in 2022.

What that likely means is Labour being hit on multiple fronts.

Boroughs like Barnsley, Wakefield, Sunderland, Halton, Sandwell, Thurrock will go Reform.

Islington, Hackney, Camden, Lambeth, Birmingham, Southwark, Brent, South Tyneside, will be lost to NOC at least (Your Party will also be challenging in some).

The Tories will lose a string of counties and new unitaries to Reform, but pick up Westminster, Barnet, Wandsworth,

And of course, the results in Wales and Scotland will be horrid.

I agree with all that.
It is gloriously up on the air at the moment.
Gonna be a fascinating election

Wes Streeting displays absolutely no subtlety as he goes on manoeuvres – politicalbetting.com

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