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The 2025 chutzpah award goes to Marco Longhi – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,851
edited December 19 in General
The 2025 chutzpah award goes to Marco Longhi – politicalbetting.com

Marco – we sat next to each other for years. You were a Tory and you rebelled against the whip less than I did! You championed Boris and told me to keep quiet when I was pointing out his failing policies.This is just silly.

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Comments

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,515
    First just to stop @Benpointer
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,297
    2nd. Ben can come in 3rd.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,155
    I saw this earlier on the Twitter.

    Brass neck doesn’t even enter into it

    Reform is rapidly becoming a care home for failed Tories.

    It will come back to bite them.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,155

    First just to stop @Benpointer

    Boom.

    Ben Pointer in the mud !!

    I’m sure he’ll be back.
  • Taz said:

    I saw this earlier on the Twitter.

    Brass neck doesn’t even enter into it

    Reform is rapidly becoming a care home for failed Tories.

    It will come back to bite them.

    It very largely always was.

    The shenanigans in Canada (discontent on the right with a Conservative government, leading to the rise of a party called Reform sucking all the life out of the old Tories before taking over the name and the remains) happened a couple of decades ago. They've also been pretty clearly the recipe that Nigel is trying to follow.

    Besides, if Nigel really is going to be PM, he needs ca. 100 sound, loyal chaps who know their way around Westminster. Where does he find those, if not in the 2024 reject pile?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,515
    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,310
    Some remarkable statistics. Since May the winners of local by-elections in the South East have been LD 26, Ref 12, Green 4, Local 2 Lab 1, Con 0, Ind 0. For South West they were LD 13, Ref 2, Green 2, Con 1, Lab 0, Ind 0. By contrast Ref have won all 6 by-elections in Yorkshire and Humber.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,027

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    BBC says busiest day. People are really inflicting themselves on their families for a whole week?
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,155

    Taz said:

    I saw this earlier on the Twitter.

    Brass neck doesn’t even enter into it

    Reform is rapidly becoming a care home for failed Tories.

    It will come back to bite them.

    It very largely always was.

    The shenanigans in Canada (discontent on the right with a Conservative government, leading to the rise of a party called Reform sucking all the life out of the old Tories before taking over the name and the remains) happened a couple of decades ago. They've also been pretty clearly the recipe that Nigel is trying to follow.

    Besides, if Nigel really is going to be PM, he needs ca. 100 sound, loyal chaps who know their way around Westminster. Where does he find those, if not in the 2024 reject pile?
    I disagree it always was. It clearly is now. A trickle has become a flood. I’m sure we can disagree on what it was but agree on what it is.
  • Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’ve been day drinking with my colleagues as we prepare for our Christmas party tonight.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,155
    carnforth said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    BBC says busiest day. People are really inflicting themselves on their families for a whole week?
    My wife and mother in law are doing the shopping. I’ve been here watching a classic Dr Who, Claws of Axos, and drinking Sorghum spirit.

    Now onto YouTube music videos

    I’ve got the better of the deal.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,155

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’ve been day drinking with my colleagues as we prepare for our Christmas party tonight.
    Jamshed and 19 crimes doth flow in abundance to wash down Hawaiian pizza.
  • Taz said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’ve been day drinking with my colleagues as we prepare for our Christmas party tonight.
    Jamshed and 19 crimes doth flow in abundance to wash down Hawaiian pizza.
    My colleagues are twats, nearly half of them ordered Hawaiian pizzas because I am paying for the food and drinks this afternoon.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 24,008

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I've spent the day "working from sofa", drinking Lemsip and blowing my nose every 5 minutes.

    Life in the fast lane.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,942

    Taz said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’ve been day drinking with my colleagues as we prepare for our Christmas party tonight.
    Jamshed and 19 crimes doth flow in abundance to wash down Hawaiian pizza.
    My colleagues are twats, nearly half of them ordered Hawaiian pizzas because I am paying for the food and drinks this afternoon.
    Soon to be ex-colleagues from the sounds of it.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,167

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    It’s a good moment for a spot of calm reflection before breakfast cheese boards become acceptable tomorrow.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,225
    carnforth said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    BBC says busiest day. People are really inflicting themselves on their families for a whole week?
    I seem to visiting a hospital more than family visiting us. Until Tuesday, anyway. Nothing to worry about, though; only a minor procedure, which the consultant normally carries out himself.
    Then on Christmas Eve we’ve a family of five visiting us.
  • kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’ve been day drinking with my colleagues as we prepare for our Christmas party tonight.
    Jamshed and 19 crimes doth flow in abundance to wash down Hawaiian pizza.
    My colleagues are twats, nearly half of them ordered Hawaiian pizzas because I am paying for the food and drinks this afternoon.
    Soon to be ex-colleagues from the sounds of it.
    They do this regularly to me.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,899

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I've been in the workshop doing injectors and water pump on the Ukrainian's (we only have one now) Mk.5 GTI. I might reflash the ECU even though she specifically told me not to.

    Back on watch now though. Honestly, sifting the worth out of this story is a complete waste of time. Tory hasbeen tries to burn Fukker nobody on Twitter. It might as well be buggate,
  • carnforth said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    BBC says busiest day. People are really inflicting themselves on their families for a whole week?
    Weird. Google Maps shows M4 and M5 green all the way from London to Exeter. Better than a normal Friday...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,942
    I hate the uniparty schtick but it's not wholly ineffective. I think former party people get a presumed pass once they switch, so long as the polling is decent.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,180
    edited December 19

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’ve been day drinking with my colleagues as we prepare for our Christmas party tonight.
    Jamshed and 19 crimes doth flow in abundance to wash down Hawaiian pizza.
    My colleagues are twats, nearly half of them ordered Hawaiian pizzas because I am paying for the food and drinks this afternoon.
    Soon to be ex-colleagues from the sounds of it.
    They do this regularly to me.
    Well as they've already had a sweet (pineapple) I hope you didn't let those having Hawaiian pizza order desserts...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,946

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
  • DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    I am sure many share your comments

    Indeed I do not see an end to turmoil and division going forward

    We are singularly bereft of any leader or poltician, both at home or abroad, that would give hope of strong leadership
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,604
    Given Tugendhat's slight petite stature, I was surprised you didn't try a Longhi and the short of it pun in the headline.
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,155
    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Enjoy Middlesbrough !
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,604
    edited December 19

    Taz said:

    I saw this earlier on the Twitter.

    Brass neck doesn’t even enter into it

    Reform is rapidly becoming a care home for failed Tories.

    It will come back to bite them.

    It very largely always was.

    The shenanigans in Canada (discontent on the right with a Conservative government, leading to the rise of a party called Reform sucking all the life out of the old Tories before taking over the name and the remains) happened a couple of decades ago. They've also been pretty clearly the recipe that Nigel is trying to follow.

    Besides, if Nigel really is going to be PM, he needs ca. 100 sound, loyal chaps who know their way around Westminster. Where does he find those, if not in the 2024 reject pile?
    Sound and loyal ?
    Nice one.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,173

    Taz said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’ve been day drinking with my colleagues as we prepare for our Christmas party tonight.
    Jamshed and 19 crimes doth flow in abundance to wash down Hawaiian pizza.
    My colleagues are twats, nearly half of them ordered Hawaiian pizzas because I am paying for the food and drinks this afternoon.
    My colleagues are twats have a sense of humour, nearly half of them ordered Hawaiian pizzas because I am paying for the food and drinks this afternoon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,942
    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    We're in a dull phase right now.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,173
    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Just hope he doesn’t introduce you to John Candy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,604
    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Winterreise for me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,604

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Just hope he doesn’t introduce you to John Candy.
    Or start singing Baby it's Cold Outside....
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,946

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Just hope he doesn’t introduce you to John Candy.
    I really hope he doesn’t either, although would be an interesting story about why Chris Rea is driving around with the corpse of John Candy in his car.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 2,150
    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    His brother Mens is a lawyer.
    Isn't he married to Actus Reus?
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,173
    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    I sympathise with you. Although we are on different sides of the independence debate, I agree with you that there are no competent political parties anywhere in the UK. I believe we get the political expertise we deserve, with social media and AI dominating “debate”. At least PB gives us somewhere to try to raise the level of discussion.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,225
    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Enjoy Middlesbrough !
    How does one do that?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,027
    edited December 19
    Green (now Independent) councillor arrested on Modern Slavery charges:

    "A 29-year-old man, a 51-year-old woman, and a 55-year-old man were arrested on suspicion of offences including slavery, servitude and forced or compulsory labour, with one also suspected of making threats to kill."

    https://sunderlandglobalmedia.org/breakin-green-party-councillor-cllr-sohail-asghar-has-been-arrested-on-suspicion-of-modern-slavery/
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,096

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Enjoy Middlesbrough !
    How does one do that?
    One leaves
  • eekeek Posts: 32,180
    edited December 19

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Enjoy Middlesbrough !
    How does one do that?
    My wife would say by going Quilting (she goes there to do that on a Friday) - but we even avoid it for comedy / music gigs nowadays.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,096
    edited December 19
    Battlebus said:

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    His brother Mens is a lawyer.
    Isn't he married to Actus Reus?
    (Narrator: viewcode has started a series of puns regarding lawyer names, on PB, a board more full of lawyers than a squirrel has nuts. Viewcode is not smart)
  • To help repair my ribs, when I get to Médoc I'm going to find somewhere to have ribs and Médocine
  • eekeek Posts: 32,180
    HarperCollins have dropped David Walliams which is saying something given how much money they've made from his Children's Books.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,120

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Enjoy Middlesbrough !
    How does one do that?
    Has a ride on the transporter bridge.

    Checks - aw, scratch that, the councils have let it rot ...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp892eg5wo
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,173

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    His brother Mens is a lawyer.
    As for his Welsh cousin Dai R…
    That’s a shit pun. You’re going soft!
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,120

    viewcode said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    His brother Mens is a lawyer.
    As for his Welsh cousin Dai R…
    That’s a shit pun. You’re going soft!
    Dair-heal all right.
  • I am about to break into the Christmas chocolate. Otherwise, how will I know if it is worth replenishing for the big day?
  • kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    We're in a dull phase right now.
    That's certainly part of the problem. Sometimes, as with the bug going round at the moment, the only answer is to hunker down and wait for nature to do its thing. The current personnel aren't ideal casting, sure. But if the alternatives are worse, what are we to do?

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Besides, how did we get here and then get out? Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that we're demanding leadership qualities that go well beyond what we have any right to demand. Since Blair, we've had seven PMs, all of whom failed fairly unambiguously and fairly quickly. What was the sliding door moment where we could have avoided all this?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,027
    eek said:

    HarperCollins have dropped David Walliams which is saying something given how much money they've made from his Children's Books.

    True, though it's carefully worded: they won't publish his next book, but they'll keep selling the back catalogue...
  • TazTaz Posts: 23,155
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Enjoy Middlesbrough !
    How does one do that?
    Has a ride on the transporter bridge.

    Checks - aw, scratch that, the councils have let it rot ...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp892eg5wo
    The legend that was Terry Scott was a big fan.
  • kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    We're in a dull phase right now.
    That's certainly part of the problem. Sometimes, as with the bug going round at the moment, the only answer is to hunker down and wait for nature to do its thing. The current personnel aren't ideal casting, sure. But if the alternatives are worse, what are we to do?

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Besides, how did we get here and then get out? Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that we're demanding leadership qualities that go well beyond what we have any right to demand. Since Blair, we've had seven PMs, all of whom failed fairly unambiguously and fairly quickly. What was the sliding door moment where we could have avoided all this?
    If David Cameron had not called and lost the Brexit referendum, we'd not have had Theresa May and Boris, and Nigel Farage and Dominic Cummings would have left the stage. So it's Ted Heath's fault for taking us into Europe.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 47,120
    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Enjoy Middlesbrough !
    How does one do that?
    Has a ride on the transporter bridge.

    Checks - aw, scratch that, the councils have let it rot ...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp892eg5wo
    The legend that was Terry Scott was a big fan.
    Been there on Teesside U business - the uni is a big thing there, in more than one sense. Best of luck to it and the town.

    I do like the railway station. Though I was never clear why there was a Deltic House just opposite. Apparently being turned into a posh hotel, or being proposed to be.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn7gYDMFCtQ
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,604
    FFS, after the government briefed that we're on a "war footing", a decade and a half old fixed price procurement contract has yet again delayed the defence spending plan.

    News sneaked out in a written statement just before Christmas.

    Ajax probe delays Defence Investment Plan decisions
    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/ajax-probe-delays-defence-investment-plan-decisions/
    The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that ongoing investigations into the British Army’s Ajax armoured vehicle programme will directly shape decisions in the forthcoming Defence Investment Plan, which has been delayed in recent weeks as ministers await clarity on the troubled programme.

    In a written statement to Parliament ahead of the Christmas recess, Defence Minister Luke Pollard said multiple safety investigations into Ajax remain ongoing following reports of noise and vibration injuries among service personnel, and that their findings will now feed directly into investment decisions.

    The statement provides the clearest indication yet that uncertainty around Ajax has contributed to the delayed publication of the Defence Investment Plan, as the government weighs future funding and capability choices linked to the Army’s Armoured Cavalry Programme...


    Everyone involved in defence procurement at the MoD, with any responsibility for decision making on this program during the last decade and a half, should be put on notice. Unless they can provide good cause (for example, if they were recruited a few months ago, or they are on record as having consistently opposed the way in which Ajax has been handled), they ought to be fired.

    That might be hugely disruptive for a few months, but I don't see how it could be much worse than the current situation.
    And it might well improve things.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,091
    carnforth said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    BBC says busiest day. People are really inflicting themselves on their families for a whole week?
    This is a good day to be the people that the others all come to at Christmas instead of going to them. That plus judicious delegation of tasks to family members + Amazon works wonders.

    Rather like bank holiday weekends when you live in north Cumberland. Don't go anywhere. Between you and the Solway is space with no people, no cars and lots of lizards basking in the sun. Just down the road is gridlock.

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,238
    Nigelb said:

    FFS, after the government briefed that we're on a "war footing", a decade and a half old fixed price procurement contract has yet again delayed the defence spending plan.

    News sneaked out in a written statement just before Christmas.

    Ajax probe delays Defence Investment Plan decisions
    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/ajax-probe-delays-defence-investment-plan-decisions/
    The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that ongoing investigations into the British Army’s Ajax armoured vehicle programme will directly shape decisions in the forthcoming Defence Investment Plan, which has been delayed in recent weeks as ministers await clarity on the troubled programme.

    In a written statement to Parliament ahead of the Christmas recess, Defence Minister Luke Pollard said multiple safety investigations into Ajax remain ongoing following reports of noise and vibration injuries among service personnel, and that their findings will now feed directly into investment decisions.

    The statement provides the clearest indication yet that uncertainty around Ajax has contributed to the delayed publication of the Defence Investment Plan, as the government weighs future funding and capability choices linked to the Army’s Armoured Cavalry Programme...


    Everyone involved in defence procurement at the MoD, with any responsibility for decision making on this program during the last decade and a half, should be put on notice. Unless they can provide good cause (for example, if they were recruited a few months ago, or they are on record as having consistently opposed the way in which Ajax has been handled), they ought to be fired.

    That might be hugely disruptive for a few months, but I don't see how it could be much worse than the current situation.
    And it might well improve things.

    A tad Muskian! Where would we find replacements who 1) know much about it 2) aren't tied in with manufactures 3) are going to form a unified team 4) would deliver better?
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,564
    edited December 19
    Nigelb said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Winterreise for me.
    As if things aren't depressing enough! Arguably the greatest collection of songs ever written.

    My Christmas music usually involves clearing 4 evenings for a run through of the Ring. Not sure which version yet.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,312
    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    HarperCollins have dropped David Walliams which is saying something given how much money they've made from his Children's Books.

    True, though it's carefully worded: they won't publish his next book, but they'll keep selling the back catalogue...
    At 50% off usually, unless it's one of their special discount days when it's only 40% off. (Applies to all books. A very odd policy)
  • kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    We're in a dull phase right now.
    That's certainly part of the problem. Sometimes, as with the bug going round at the moment, the only answer is to hunker down and wait for nature to do its thing. The current personnel aren't ideal casting, sure. But if the alternatives are worse, what are we to do?

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Besides, how did we get here and then get out? Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that we're demanding leadership qualities that go well beyond what we have any right to demand. Since Blair, we've had seven PMs, all of whom failed fairly unambiguously and fairly quickly. What was the sliding door moment where we could have avoided all this?
    If David Cameron had not called and lost the Brexit referendum, we'd not have had Theresa May and Boris, and Nigel Farage and Dominic Cummings would have left the stage. So it's Ted Heath's fault for taking us into Europe.
    If Alfred the Great hadn't fought off the Vikings, we'd have the Norwegian Sovereign Fund instead of all our national debt.
    John Major, in resigning so soon in 1997, established the precedent that leaders quit whenever the slightest thing goes against them, so Prime Ministers reach Number 10 too early in their careers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,179
    edited December 19
    Longhi was a Boris loyalist more than a Tory loyalist, that may have some appeal in the redwall like the Dudley seat he used to represent but less so in the bluewall where Tugendhat is an MP still
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 132,179

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    We're in a dull phase right now.
    That's certainly part of the problem. Sometimes, as with the bug going round at the moment, the only answer is to hunker down and wait for nature to do its thing. The current personnel aren't ideal casting, sure. But if the alternatives are worse, what are we to do?

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Besides, how did we get here and then get out? Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that we're demanding leadership qualities that go well beyond what we have any right to demand. Since Blair, we've had seven PMs, all of whom failed fairly unambiguously and fairly quickly. What was the sliding door moment where we could have avoided all this?
    If David Cameron had not called and lost the Brexit referendum, we'd not have had Theresa May and Boris, and Nigel Farage and Dominic Cummings would have left the stage. So it's Ted Heath's fault for taking us into Europe.
    If Alfred the Great hadn't fought off the Vikings, we'd have the Norwegian Sovereign Fund instead of all our national debt.
    John Major, in resigning so soon in 1997, established the precedent that leaders quit whenever the slightest thing goes against them, so Prime Ministers reach Number 10 too early in their careers.
    No, Major was leader and PM for 7 years, and only resigned after general election defeat having won a general election and 2 party leadership elections.

    Cameron also lost a major national referendum he called before having got significant concessions from the EU, it was not a minor thing
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,173
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    boulay said:

    Judging from the eerie quiet on here, everyone is currently stuck on a motorway making their Christmas get-a-way.

    I’m stuck in a car with Chris Rea. Made the foolish error of asking him where he’s going after he’s dropped me off.
    Enjoy Middlesbrough !
    How does one do that?
    Has a ride on the transporter bridge.

    Checks - aw, scratch that, the councils have let it rot ...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyp892eg5wo
    The legend that was Terry Scott was a big fan.
    Been there on Teesside U business - the uni is a big thing there, in more than one sense. Best of luck to it and the town.

    I do like the railway station. Though I was never clear why there was a Deltic House just opposite. Apparently being turned into a posh hotel, or being proposed to be.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn7gYDMFCtQ
    I assume it will have a fast checkout.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,225

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    We're in a dull phase right now.
    That's certainly part of the problem. Sometimes, as with the bug going round at the moment, the only answer is to hunker down and wait for nature to do its thing. The current personnel aren't ideal casting, sure. But if the alternatives are worse, what are we to do?

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Besides, how did we get here and then get out? Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that we're demanding leadership qualities that go well beyond what we have any right to demand. Since Blair, we've had seven PMs, all of whom failed fairly unambiguously and fairly quickly. What was the sliding door moment where we could have avoided all this?
    If David Cameron had not called and lost the Brexit referendum, we'd not have had Theresa May and Boris, and Nigel Farage and Dominic Cummings would have left the stage. So it's Ted Heath's fault for taking us into Europe.
    If Alfred the Great hadn't fought off the Vikings, we'd have the Norwegian Sovereign Fund instead of all our national debt.
    John Major, in resigning so soon in 1997, established the precedent that leaders quit whenever the slightest thing goes against them, so Prime Ministers reach Number 10 too early in their careers.
    Yes, Wilson didn’t resign after defeat in 1970. Nor did Heath after February 1974.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,515
    Provocative for sure. But maybe it's the only way to free Plasticine.
  • kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    We're in a dull phase right now.
    That's certainly part of the problem. Sometimes, as with the bug going round at the moment, the only answer is to hunker down and wait for nature to do its thing. The current personnel aren't ideal casting, sure. But if the alternatives are worse, what are we to do?

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Besides, how did we get here and then get out? Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that we're demanding leadership qualities that go well beyond what we have any right to demand. Since Blair, we've had seven PMs, all of whom failed fairly unambiguously and fairly quickly. What was the sliding door moment where we could have avoided all this?
    If David Cameron had not called and lost the Brexit referendum, we'd not have had Theresa May and Boris, and Nigel Farage and Dominic Cummings would have left the stage. So it's Ted Heath's fault for taking us into Europe.
    If Alfred the Great hadn't fought off the Vikings, we'd have the Norwegian Sovereign Fund instead of all our national debt.
    John Major, in resigning so soon in 1997, established the precedent that leaders quit whenever the slightest thing goes against them, so Prime Ministers reach Number 10 too early in their careers.
    Yes, Wilson didn’t resign after defeat in 1970. Nor did Heath after February 1974.

    Even Callaghan stuck around for eighteen months. I don't think the culture would stand for that now, even if it would lead to better politicians and politics.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,979
    Nigelb said:

    FFS, after the government briefed that we're on a "war footing", a decade and a half old fixed price procurement contract has yet again delayed the defence spending plan.

    News sneaked out in a written statement just before Christmas.

    Ajax probe delays Defence Investment Plan decisions
    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/ajax-probe-delays-defence-investment-plan-decisions/
    The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that ongoing investigations into the British Army’s Ajax armoured vehicle programme will directly shape decisions in the forthcoming Defence Investment Plan, which has been delayed in recent weeks as ministers await clarity on the troubled programme.

    In a written statement to Parliament ahead of the Christmas recess, Defence Minister Luke Pollard said multiple safety investigations into Ajax remain ongoing following reports of noise and vibration injuries among service personnel, and that their findings will now feed directly into investment decisions.

    The statement provides the clearest indication yet that uncertainty around Ajax has contributed to the delayed publication of the Defence Investment Plan, as the government weighs future funding and capability choices linked to the Army’s Armoured Cavalry Programme...


    Everyone involved in defence procurement at the MoD, with any responsibility for decision making on this program during the last decade and a half, should be put on notice. Unless they can provide good cause (for example, if they were recruited a few months ago, or they are on record as having consistently opposed the way in which Ajax has been handled), they ought to be fired.

    That might be hugely disruptive for a few months, but I don't see how it could be much worse than the current situation.
    And it might well improve things.

    Good luck doing that. The military involved in the project (the majority on the customer side and a decent number on the project team) will have rotated in and out every two years. There will be a bit more consistency in the civilians, but not from the decision makers.

    The whole enterprise, military and civilian, needs to have some accountability introduced. The quid pro quo being the freedom to act quickly and decisively if you take responsibility for the decision, and latitude to make a few mistakes through enhanced risk appetite (though not at this scale).
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,096

    Nigelb said:

    FFS, after the government briefed that we're on a "war footing", a decade and a half old fixed price procurement contract has yet again delayed the defence spending plan.

    News sneaked out in a written statement just before Christmas.

    Ajax probe delays Defence Investment Plan decisions
    https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/ajax-probe-delays-defence-investment-plan-decisions/
    The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that ongoing investigations into the British Army’s Ajax armoured vehicle programme will directly shape decisions in the forthcoming Defence Investment Plan, which has been delayed in recent weeks as ministers await clarity on the troubled programme.

    In a written statement to Parliament ahead of the Christmas recess, Defence Minister Luke Pollard said multiple safety investigations into Ajax remain ongoing following reports of noise and vibration injuries among service personnel, and that their findings will now feed directly into investment decisions.

    The statement provides the clearest indication yet that uncertainty around Ajax has contributed to the delayed publication of the Defence Investment Plan, as the government weighs future funding and capability choices linked to the Army’s Armoured Cavalry Programme...


    Everyone involved in defence procurement at the MoD, with any responsibility for decision making on this program during the last decade and a half, should be put on notice. Unless they can provide good cause (for example, if they were recruited a few months ago, or they are on record as having consistently opposed the way in which Ajax has been handled), they ought to be fired.

    That might be hugely disruptive for a few months, but I don't see how it could be much worse than the current situation.
    And it might well improve things.

    A tad Muskian! Where would we find replacements who 1) know much about it 2) aren't tied in with manufactures 3) are going to form a unified team 4) would deliver better?
    We would find them in other countries. From memory (and I might be wrong) the Australian security service ASIO was badly compromised and rebuilt from the ground up using advice by the British.

    Should such a solution be adopted, we could use Rheinmetall and the Germans to rebuild MOD procurement from scratch

    There have been radical solutions in the past. Curtis LeMay built SAC by bullying, apocryphally saying he had "neither the time nor the inclination to differentiate between the incompetent and the merely unfortunate". See also Hap Arnold and the Battle of Kansas

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_LeMay
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kansas
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,942
    edited December 19

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    We're in a dull phase right now.
    That's certainly part of the problem. Sometimes, as with the bug going round at the moment, the only answer is to hunker down and wait for nature to do its thing. The current personnel aren't ideal casting, sure. But if the alternatives are worse, what are we to do?

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Besides, how did we get here and then get out? Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that we're demanding leadership qualities that go well beyond what we have any right to demand. Since Blair, we've had seven PMs, all of whom failed fairly unambiguously and fairly quickly. What was the sliding door moment where we could have avoided all this?
    If David Cameron had not called and lost the Brexit referendum, we'd not have had Theresa May and Boris, and Nigel Farage and Dominic Cummings would have left the stage. So it's Ted Heath's fault for taking us into Europe.
    If Alfred the Great hadn't fought off the Vikings, we'd have the Norwegian Sovereign Fund instead of all our national debt.
    John Major, in resigning so soon in 1997, established the precedent that leaders quit whenever the slightest thing goes against them, so Prime Ministers reach Number 10 too early in their careers.
    Yes, Wilson didn’t resign after defeat in 1970. Nor did Heath after February 1974.

    Even Callaghan stuck around for eighteen months. I don't think the culture would stand for that now, even if it would lead to better politicians and politics.
    Surprising some are sticking around now. Trump (successfully), Pollievre (probably not - granted he was not an incumbent).

    And of course Ed M is yearning for another go.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,515
    HYUFD said:

    Longhi was a Boris loyalist more than a Tory loyalist, that may have some appeal in the redwall like the Dudley seat he used to represent but less so in the bluewall where Tugendhat is an MP still

    Good point. The Boris brand was (is) separate to the Tory one. It grew and consumed its host.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,720
    Evening all :)

    Mrs Stodge and I travelled back from rural Derbyshire today - the trains into London not too busy but the queues waiting at the Eurostar terminal and for the trains to the Midlands and Sheffield were horrendous.

    On the slightly substantive, there's quitting and leaving your party in the lurch. There's an argument parties "need time to reflect" after a heavy defeat ending a long period in Government but that's not how the world works. My guess is both Major and Cameron were sick and tired of the Conservative Party whose internal disunity and factionalism had arguably contributed much to their respective defeats.

    The final revenge was to effectively say "sod it" and leave those who had conspired to pick up the pieces.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,720
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    Somewhat belatedly, it is time to go and get the Christmas tree. Then put some decs up. Our son is coming home in the early hours for Christmas. Looking forward to that.

    This has been a very unhappy hear for me in politics. I feel an orphan. I have nothing but contempt for the SNP government in Scotland and I am in despair about the Labour government in London. My enthusiasm and even interest has waned sharply. I may have a break from PB for a while.

    We're in a dull phase right now.
    That's certainly part of the problem. Sometimes, as with the bug going round at the moment, the only answer is to hunker down and wait for nature to do its thing. The current personnel aren't ideal casting, sure. But if the alternatives are worse, what are we to do?

    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Besides, how did we get here and then get out? Part of the problem, I'm sure, is that we're demanding leadership qualities that go well beyond what we have any right to demand. Since Blair, we've had seven PMs, all of whom failed fairly unambiguously and fairly quickly. What was the sliding door moment where we could have avoided all this?
    If David Cameron had not called and lost the Brexit referendum, we'd not have had Theresa May and Boris, and Nigel Farage and Dominic Cummings would have left the stage. So it's Ted Heath's fault for taking us into Europe.
    If Alfred the Great hadn't fought off the Vikings, we'd have the Norwegian Sovereign Fund instead of all our national debt.
    John Major, in resigning so soon in 1997, established the precedent that leaders quit whenever the slightest thing goes against them, so Prime Ministers reach Number 10 too early in their careers.
    No, Major was leader and PM for 7 years, and only resigned after general election defeat having won a general election and 2 party leadership elections.

    Cameron also lost a major national referendum he called before having got significant concessions from the EU, it was not a minor thing
    I'm increasingly of the view had he prevailed in 2016, Cameron's revenge on those who had supported the LEAVE campaign would have been considerable with the likes of Boris Johnson sent into the outer darkness never to find favour which is of course what happened with Theresa May.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,701
    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,238
    FF43 said:

    Anyhow. Good news the EU has got the €90 billion loan through for Ukraine. They will be needing it.

    Should really be a gift. If they hadn't fought other countries would have been invaded by now.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,312
    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    Whilst I really don't want Farage as a PM, it's the rest of the mob that worry me most.

    I think that the Greens have gone the other way - they've just chosen loathsome as their leader whereas their offering overall is just ghastly.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,716
    edited December 19
    Omnium said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    Whilst I really don't want Farage as a PM, it's the rest of the mob that worry me most.

    I think that the Greens have gone the other way - they've just chosen loathsome as their leader whereas their offering overall is just ghastly.
    Farage would be the most politically experienced newly-elected Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher. It's not impossible that he'll prove to be a great leader.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 26,238
    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    That is fine as a protest party. But as we get close to an election where they are likely to be the next government won't the electorate start to be a little curious at who may be Chancellor, Defence Secretary or Health Secretary?

    And there is no good answer for Farage - inevitably they will mostly be failed Tory re-treads or complete unknowns. A balance of the two is probably a bit better than either group dominating but it might be a hindrance come 2028/9 even if it makes no difference at all in 2025/6.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,942
    Putin says no more wars if Russia is respected. Considering he considers defending against Russian attacks disrespectful it's not the most encouraging statement.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,359
    kle4 said:

    Putin says no more wars if Russia is respected. Considering he considers defending against Russian attacks disrespectful it's not the most encouraging statement.

    Absolutely his last territorial demand, I believe that translates to.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,312

    Omnium said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    Whilst I really don't want Farage as a PM, it's the rest of the mob that worry me most.

    I think that the Greens have gone the other way - they've just chosen loathsome as their leader whereas their offering overall is just ghastly.
    Farage would be the most politically experienced newly-elected Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher. It's not impossible that he'll prove to be a great PM.
    He's ok-ish. I'm a huge fan in many ways. He should have been propelled to the Lords.

    He will not be a great or even good PM if there's a Reform government. He'll perhaps let himself down, but his fellow-travellers will do far worse.

    I don't think this is even controversial.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,942

    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    That is fine as a protest party. But as we get close to an election where they are likely to be the next government won't the electorate start to be a little curious at who may be Chancellor, Defence Secretary or Health Secretary?
    No? I don't think it plays into things much. In a general sense of whether they are serious it might play a part, but if the electorate trust Farage theyll probably trust he'll pick reasonable options - though even he wont know most of them in that situation.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 31,010
    Not surprised at all to see that only some of the Epstein files will be released.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,716
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    Whilst I really don't want Farage as a PM, it's the rest of the mob that worry me most.

    I think that the Greens have gone the other way - they've just chosen loathsome as their leader whereas their offering overall is just ghastly.
    Farage would be the most politically experienced newly-elected Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher. It's not impossible that he'll prove to be a great PM.
    He's ok-ish. I'm a huge fan in many ways. He should have been propelled to the Lords.

    He will not be a great or even good PM if there's a Reform government. He'll perhaps let himself down, but his fellow-travellers will do far worse.

    I don't think this is even controversial.
    Maybe the smart move for Farage after winning would be to say that we need a government of national unity and appoint ministers from all the parties.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 16,091
    edited December 19
    The header reminds me that when I am stuck on a desert island my luxuries will be a really good coffee machine and one of those conveyor belt toast making things you get at breakfast in Premier Inns.

    Who, by the way, is Marco Longhi?
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,167

    kle4 said:

    Putin says no more wars if Russia is respected. Considering he considers defending against Russian attacks disrespectful it's not the most encouraging statement.

    Absolutely his last territorial demand, I believe that translates to.
    Only if he pegs it this evening. And even that might be touch and go.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,942

    kle4 said:

    Putin says no more wars if Russia is respected. Considering he considers defending against Russian attacks disrespectful it's not the most encouraging statement.

    Absolutely his last territorial demand, I believe that translates to.
    Well, given his age and the time to rebuild forces that might technically end up the case (albeit he is not that old) if he can get Trump to force over some more cities.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,312

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    Whilst I really don't want Farage as a PM, it's the rest of the mob that worry me most.

    I think that the Greens have gone the other way - they've just chosen loathsome as their leader whereas their offering overall is just ghastly.
    Farage would be the most politically experienced newly-elected Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher. It's not impossible that he'll prove to be a great PM.
    He's ok-ish. I'm a huge fan in many ways. He should have been propelled to the Lords.

    He will not be a great or even good PM if there's a Reform government. He'll perhaps let himself down, but his fellow-travellers will do far worse.

    I don't think this is even controversial.
    Maybe the smart move for Farage after winning would be to say that we need a government of national unity and appoint ministers from all the parties.
    Yes. And he's not stupid. He's already said that his cabinet would include people from industry etc. However then he has all sorts of problems with the horrible bunch of MPs that he leads.

  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,720

    Omnium said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    Whilst I really don't want Farage as a PM, it's the rest of the mob that worry me most.

    I think that the Greens have gone the other way - they've just chosen loathsome as their leader whereas their offering overall is just ghastly.
    Farage would be the most politically experienced newly-elected Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher. It's not impossible that he'll prove to be a great leader.
    How do you define "politically experienced"? He will have been an MP for just five years - Starmer and Cameron had been in Parliament for nearly a decade. Liz Truss had been an MP for 12 years before she became PM.

    Tony Blair had been an MP for 14 years before becoming Prime Minister.

    I'd argue Blair at the very least was more "politically experienced" having served in Shadow Cabinet for a number of years before becoming leader in the election following John Smith's death.

    As to whether Farage will "prove to be a great leader", impossible to know.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,335
    kle4 said:

    Putin says no more wars if Russia is respected. Considering he considers defending against Russian attacks disrespectful it's not the most encouraging statement.

    There's a lot of demanding "respect" going on between political leaders. Poland's newish President was demanding that Ukraine be more "grateful" for the Polish help it is receiving, aka, grovel and show respect for the privilege of fighting to defend Poland from Russia.

    It's a sickening trend in world politics. The attitude of a violent school playground.

    Meanwhile, the Ukrainians hit a Russian oil tanker in the Mediterranean, and tease about hitting another Black Sea warship.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,239
    edited December 19

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    Whilst I really don't want Farage as a PM, it's the rest of the mob that worry me most.

    I think that the Greens have gone the other way - they've just chosen loathsome as their leader whereas their offering overall is just ghastly.
    Farage would be the most politically experienced newly-elected Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher. It's not impossible that he'll prove to be a great PM.
    He's ok-ish. I'm a huge fan in many ways. He should have been propelled to the Lords.

    He will not be a great or even good PM if there's a Reform government. He'll perhaps let himself down, but his fellow-travellers will do far worse.

    I don't think this is even controversial.
    Maybe the smart move for Farage after winning would be to say that we need a government of national unity and appoint ministers from all the parties.
    The smart thing would be to join forces with Badenoch, which would help get Reform, or at least his kind of politics, over the line, help shed some of the racist and to a lesser extent, sexist image he has, and, in my opinion, do what is best for the social cohesion of the country by having an old, white man running the country in unity with a young (ish) black, woman

    I honestly think having that kind of coalition would see black people feel they have more of a stake in society, and racist-curious/left behind/anti PC white people be more thoughtful about immigration and skin colour
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,942
    edited December 19
    stodge said:

    Omnium said:

    FF43 said:

    Reform being a bunch of charlatans is priced in I think. It's never held Farage back.

    Whilst I really don't want Farage as a PM, it's the rest of the mob that worry me most.

    I think that the Greens have gone the other way - they've just chosen loathsome as their leader whereas their offering overall is just ghastly.
    Farage would be the most politically experienced newly-elected Prime Minister since Margaret Thatcher. It's not impossible that he'll prove to be a great leader.
    How do you define "politically experienced"? He will have been an MP for just five years - Starmer and Cameron had been in Parliament for nearly a decade. Liz Truss had been an MP for 12 years before she became PM.

    Tony Blair had been an MP for 14 years before becoming Prime Minister.

    I'd argue Blair at the very least was more "politically experienced" having served in Shadow Cabinet for a number of years before becoming leader in the election following John Smith's death.

    As to whether Farage will "prove to be a great leader", impossible to know.
    Starmer is one of the least experienced PMs by prior parliamentary experience we've ever had. Sunak might be the only one with less. Cameron was similar to Starmer.

    Is backbench experience useful? Probably, to see how things work (though Starmer has been front bench practically the whole time), especially if facing opposition which knows the ins and outs.

    Parliamentary experience, political experience, are different things, each useful though.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,261
    algarkirk said:

    The header reminds me that when I am stuck on a desert island my luxuries will be a really good coffee machine and one of those conveyor belt toast making things you get at breakfast in Premier Inns.

    Who, by the way, is Marco Longhi?

    Longhi sounds rather like the brand of coffee machine that you desire on your desert island.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,359

    kle4 said:

    Putin says no more wars if Russia is respected. Considering he considers defending against Russian attacks disrespectful it's not the most encouraging statement.

    There's a lot of demanding "respect" going on between political leaders. Poland's newish President was demanding that Ukraine be more "grateful" for the Polish help it is receiving, aka, grovel and show respect for the privilege of fighting to defend Poland from Russia.

    It's a sickening trend in world politics. The attitude of a violent school playground.

    Meanwhile, the Ukrainians hit a Russian oil tanker in the Mediterranean, and tease about hitting another Black Sea warship.
    Does it make me a bad person that every time I hear a demand for respect, I actually hear a demand for “respec’ “ delivered by the kind of street gangster who beats his girlfriend up as recreation?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,359
    edited December 19
    Foss said:

    kle4 said:

    Putin says no more wars if Russia is respected. Considering he considers defending against Russian attacks disrespectful it's not the most encouraging statement.

    Absolutely his last territorial demand, I believe that translates to.
    Only if he pegs it this evening. And even that might be touch and go.
    I was referencing this -

    https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1500077760
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