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Will this bug John Swinney and the SNP until election day? – politicalbetting.com

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  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,308

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.
    “Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.

    (What did he do?)

    He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks. Dramatic irony, bathos, puns, parody, hyperbole, litotes and satire.

    He was vicious.”
    I'm almost certain that pulling your own head off is impossible. A very nicely phrased post though. Where's the quote from?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,278
    Here's an idea: Norway gives Trump the ultimate, the Greatest EVER by FAR Peace Prize Winner in History (and that includes Jesus), a one-off, never to be repeated award, with platinum medal, embossed in 24 carat diamonds by cartier etc etc...

    In exchange for bowing out of office on health grounds and leaving the stage?

    Gotta be a deal??
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 27,089
    Omnium said:

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.
    “Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.

    (What did he do?)

    He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks. Dramatic irony, bathos, puns, parody, hyperbole, litotes and satire.

    He was vicious.”
    I'm almost certain that pulling your own head off is impossible. A very nicely phrased post though. Where's the quote from?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha_Brothers
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,308
    viewcode said:

    Omnium said:

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.
    “Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.

    (What did he do?)

    He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks. Dramatic irony, bathos, puns, parody, hyperbole, litotes and satire.

    He was vicious.”
    I'm almost certain that pulling your own head off is impossible. A very nicely phrased post though. Where's the quote from?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piranha_Brothers
    Well if you'd said you had official gold-standard Monty-Python endorsed stuff then you should have said so all along.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,090

    Here's an idea: Norway gives Trump the ultimate, the Greatest EVER by FAR Peace Prize Winner in History (and that includes Jesus), a one-off, never to be repeated award, with platinum medal, embossed in 24 carat diamonds by cartier etc etc...

    In exchange for bowing out of office on health grounds and leaving the stage?

    Gotta be a deal??

    Nope, is demented as Trump is he's still better than Vance.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,856

    Have we done this? I've been busy today.


    Pippa Crerar

    @PippaCrerar

    🚨Keir Starmer's No 10 is cancelling the afternoon lobby briefing, when journalists can ask the PM's spox as many questions they like, for as long as they like.

    They'll also sometimes cancel morning lobby, replacing it with press conferences with ministers, meaning many orgs will have opportunity for questions restricted.

    The lobby may be an imperfect system, but these briefings give journalists from every outlet, regardless of editorial line, the chance to ask whatever they want.

    This move is bad for transparency, bad for accountability, and a bad look for a government that already struggles with its communications.

    I don't think Labour necessarily have an issue with the volume of communications to be fair.

    Perhaps stripping a lot of this briefing out is helpful. It can't get much worse, right? Right?
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,620

    Here's an idea: Norway gives Trump the ultimate, the Greatest EVER by FAR Peace Prize Winner in History (and that includes Jesus), a one-off, never to be repeated award, with platinum medal, embossed in 24 carat diamonds by cartier etc etc...

    In exchange for bowing out of office on health grounds and leaving the stage?

    Gotta be a deal??

    It’s a great award. No one in history has ever received such an award. No one can believe what a great award it is. Biden wouldn’t have EVER received such an award. Or any president before Trump. Everyone is saying that. It’s true. It’s really quite something I can tell you.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,501
    MaxPB said:

    Here's an idea: Norway gives Trump the ultimate, the Greatest EVER by FAR Peace Prize Winner in History (and that includes Jesus), a one-off, never to be repeated award, with platinum medal, embossed in 24 carat diamonds by cartier etc etc...

    In exchange for bowing out of office on health grounds and leaving the stage?

    Gotta be a deal??

    Nope, is demented as Trump is he's still better than Vance.
    Nixon once commented that he chose Spiro Agnew as his running mate as a guarantee nobody would ever try to assassinate him - the words 'President Spiro Agnew' would immediately cause them to halt.

    Agnew was a far more honest, intelligent and sensible person than Vance. And he actually got convicted of his frauds.

    (Ironically, it was indeed Agnew's resignation and replacement by Ford that gave the House the confidence to impeach Nixon, precipitating his own removal.)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,329
    edited December 18

    Have we done this? I've been busy today.


    Pippa Crerar

    @PippaCrerar

    🚨Keir Starmer's No 10 is cancelling the afternoon lobby briefing, when journalists can ask the PM's spox as many questions they like, for as long as they like.

    They'll also sometimes cancel morning lobby, replacing it with press conferences with ministers, meaning many orgs will have opportunity for questions restricted.

    The lobby may be an imperfect system, but these briefings give journalists from every outlet, regardless of editorial line, the chance to ask whatever they want.

    This move is bad for transparency, bad for accountability, and a bad look for a government that already struggles with its communications.

    They're running scared. Absolutely terrible.

    Which opposition party will be the first to set up their own lobby briefings, and further take control of the news agenda away from the government?
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,865
    Interesting betting for SPOTY:

    Ellie Kildunne is more likely to be in top 3 than Chloe Kelly.

    But Chloe is more likely to be overall winner than Ellie.

    And both the above are by quite wide margins.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,222
    Omnium said:

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.
    “Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.

    (What did he do?)

    He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks. Dramatic irony, bathos, puns, parody, hyperbole, litotes and satire.

    He was vicious.”
    I'm almost certain that pulling your own head off is impossible. A very nicely phrased post though. Where's the quote from?
    I knew someone who did something like it. Got their head trapped in their car door having set it ti reverse from outside. Still not entirely sure how the poor girl did it. Early 20’s, just got engaged.
    Absolute tragedy.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,278

    Have we done this? I've been busy today.


    Pippa Crerar

    @PippaCrerar

    🚨Keir Starmer's No 10 is cancelling the afternoon lobby briefing, when journalists can ask the PM's spox as many questions they like, for as long as they like.

    They'll also sometimes cancel morning lobby, replacing it with press conferences with ministers, meaning many orgs will have opportunity for questions restricted.

    The lobby may be an imperfect system, but these briefings give journalists from every outlet, regardless of editorial line, the chance to ask whatever they want.

    This move is bad for transparency, bad for accountability, and a bad look for a government that already struggles with its communications.

    They're running scared. Absolutely terrible.

    Which opposition party will be the first to set up their own lobby briefings, and further take control of the news agenda away from the government?
    Please sir, me sir, please, I know the answer to this one...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,314
    MaxPB said:

    Here's an idea: Norway gives Trump the ultimate, the Greatest EVER by FAR Peace Prize Winner in History (and that includes Jesus), a one-off, never to be repeated award, with platinum medal, embossed in 24 carat diamonds by cartier etc etc...

    In exchange for bowing out of office on health grounds and leaving the stage?

    Gotta be a deal??

    Nope, is demented as Trump is he's still better than Vance.
    Not sure that's true.

    Vance would be a much more dangerous person if he had the same appeal as Trump, but he doesn't.

    The people who are willing to die in a ditch fro Donny are much less likely to do it for him
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,501
    Scott_xP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Here's an idea: Norway gives Trump the ultimate, the Greatest EVER by FAR Peace Prize Winner in History (and that includes Jesus), a one-off, never to be repeated award, with platinum medal, embossed in 24 carat diamonds by cartier etc etc...

    In exchange for bowing out of office on health grounds and leaving the stage?

    Gotta be a deal??

    Nope, is demented as Trump is he's still better than Vance.
    Not sure that's true.

    Vance would be a much more dangerous person if he had the same appeal as Trump, but he doesn't.

    The people who are willing to die in a ditch fro Donny are much less likely to do it for him
    He doesn't need to have the same appeal as Trump to withdraw NATO forces from Europe, pass intelligence to the Russians or push further down the path of election rigging.

    If it were only about him as a candidate, I'd agree with you, but once he gets into office he could make things much worse. At least with Trump he's so erratic it's possible to change his mind.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,989

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    It looks like sour grapes from Labour if the authorities chase the man down. Farage is an excellent victim too. See Coutts and Co.

    Merrick Garland thought the same about Trump and look where we are there.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,072
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    BREAKING: Christian Turner, a career diplomat who was UK ambassador to UN and foreign office political director, will be the UK's new man in Washington, sources confirm.

    Hope he makes good choices on who he is friends with.
    His..er..christian name should be a good start, even with the big, fat hypocrites.
  • edited December 18

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    I seem to recall that my council keeps expense returns for 2 years so the statute of limitations line may be bogus?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,126
    Omnium said:

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.
    “Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.

    (What did he do?)

    He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks. Dramatic irony, bathos, puns, parody, hyperbole, litotes and satire.

    He was vicious.”
    I'm almost certain that pulling your own head off is impossible. A very nicely phrased post though. Where's the quote from?
    My annual appraisal
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,865
    Per Betfair Chloe Kelly not in top 3

    Presumably they can see where cameras are in studio.

    Top 3 are Rory, Lando and Ellie - order unknown.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,671
    MikeL said:

    Latest odds:

    Rory 1.25
    Lando 8
    Chloe 15

    But only two golfers have ever won SPOTY - Dai Rees (in 1957) and Nick Faldo. So only one in the last 67 years.

    I hope Rory wins but fear he won't.

    It's got to be ex Millfield schoolboy Lando Norris! You heard it here first!!
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,865
    Rory 1.26
    Lando 6.8
    Ellie 16.5
    Others 1,000
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 36,222
    Roger said:

    MikeL said:

    Latest odds:

    Rory 1.25
    Lando 8
    Chloe 15

    But only two golfers have ever won SPOTY - Dai Rees (in 1957) and Nick Faldo. So only one in the last 67 years.

    I hope Rory wins but fear he won't.

    It's got to be ex Millfield schoolboy Lando Norris! You heard it here first!!
    He’s not there. Maybe a bit of a disadvantage.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,865
    Rory shortening:

    Rory 1.15
    Lando 8.6
    Ellie 27
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,989
    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,289
    edited December 18

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    I seem to recall that my council keeps expense returns for 2 years so the statute of limitations line may be bogus?
    Earlier this year I spotted Lord Pack saying something about aspects taking years to resolve.
    Update: aha it is about Returning Officers expenses taking years to collate fully:
    https://www.markpack.org.uk/174613/lessons-from-the-lords-2-how-to-spend-19m-badly-without-anyone-complaining/

    Plus there is the National Expenditure used for Local Mailings question:
    https://www.markpack.org.uk/130283/internet-speeds-up-the-killing-off-of-expense-controls-in-marginal-seats/
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,726

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    To quote one of my favourite Youtube cookery channels "Nothing bad ever happened on medium".
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,865
    edited December 18
    Betting suspended when voting closed:

    Rory 1.04
    Lando 19.5
    Ellie 36

    But Ellie is favourite to win market without Rory.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,289
    MattW said:

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    I seem to recall that my council keeps expense returns for 2 years so the statute of limitations line may be bogus?
    Earlier this year I spotted Lord Pack saying something about aspects taking years to resolve.
    Update: aha it is about Returning Officers expenses taking years to collate fully:
    https://www.markpack.org.uk/174613/lessons-from-the-lords-2-how-to-spend-19m-badly-without-anyone-complaining/

    Plus there is the National Expenditure used for Local Mailings question:
    https://www.markpack.org.uk/130283/internet-speeds-up-the-killing-off-of-expense-controls-in-marginal-seats/
    On that first, in April 2025, the costs for the 2021 Election were not yet available:
    https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-03-27/HL6255/
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,072
    DougSeal said:

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    I seem to recall that my council keeps expense returns for 2 years so the statute of limitations line may be bogus?
    Fucking hell. It’s easy to determine if the line is bogus. It took me two minutes and the answer is “no” -

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/2/section/176

    The capacity of people to suspect bad faith is a lot of the reason we’re in the shit we’re in as a society.
    Tbf actual bad faith also has something to do with all this shit.
  • DougSeal said:

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    I seem to recall that my council keeps expense returns for 2 years so the statute of limitations line may be bogus?
    Fucking hell. It’s easy to determine if the line is bogus. It took me two minutes and the answer is “no” -

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/2/section/176

    The capacity of people to suspect bad faith is a lot of the reason we’re in the shit we’re in as a society.
    I stand corrected. Should have known my council were gold plating things :)
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,989
    DougSeal said:

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    I seem to recall that my council keeps expense returns for 2 years so the statute of limitations line may be bogus?
    Fucking hell. It’s easy to determine if the line is bogus. It took me two minutes and the answer is “no” -

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/2/section/176

    The capacity of people to suspect bad faith is a lot of the reason we’re in the shit we’re in as a society.
    OK. Good point. But Nigel is "special". Does that work for you?
  • trukattrukat Posts: 100
    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    To quote one of my favourite Youtube cookery channels "Nothing bad ever happened on medium".
    Except the restriction of jury trials? digital id? weakening the right to silence? Labour are authoritarian to their core.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,126

    DougSeal said:

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    I seem to recall that my council keeps expense returns for 2 years so the statute of limitations line may be bogus?
    Fucking hell. It’s easy to determine if the line is bogus. It took me two minutes and the answer is “no” -

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/2/section/176

    The capacity of people to suspect bad faith is a lot of the reason we’re in the shit we’re in as a society.
    OK. Good point. But Nigel is "special". Does that work for you?
    He’s special alright
  • Rory wins and well deserved
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,501

    Rory wins and well deserved

    Caroline Wozniacki may not agree, of course.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,613
    Scott_xP said:

    MaxPB said:

    Here's an idea: Norway gives Trump the ultimate, the Greatest EVER by FAR Peace Prize Winner in History (and that includes Jesus), a one-off, never to be repeated award, with platinum medal, embossed in 24 carat diamonds by cartier etc etc...

    In exchange for bowing out of office on health grounds and leaving the stage?

    Gotta be a deal??

    Nope, is demented as Trump is he's still better than Vance.
    Not sure that's true.

    Vance would be a much more dangerous person if he had the same appeal as Trump, but he doesn't.

    The people who are willing to die in a ditch fro Donny are much less likely to do it for him
    Congress Republicans wouldn't be so scared of Vance, and Republican polling would be poor. My guess is that Vance would, on some issues, tack towards the centre. He doesn't care about tariffs, for example. He isn't going to threaten to invade Canada, Panama and Greenland.
  • kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

    One of my theories of the New Radicalism is that its leaders are bored, frustrated, wannabe Men Of Action. Yes, I am looking at you, Glasman. And you, Farage.

    Whereas for your average person, varying shades of Butskellism have turned out to be more effective at delivering better lives to more people more sustainably than anything else anyone has come up with.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,726
    kinabalu said:

    Just not the same without Gary.

    Another threesome-gone-wrong story to add to the PB list.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,726
    trukat said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    To quote one of my favourite Youtube cookery channels "Nothing bad ever happened on medium".
    Except the restriction of jury trials? digital id? weakening the right to silence? Labour are authoritarian to their core.
    Another joke, shot down by the literal minded.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,126
    ohnotnow said:

    trukat said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    To quote one of my favourite Youtube cookery channels "Nothing bad ever happened on medium".
    Except the restriction of jury trials? digital id? weakening the right to silence? Labour are authoritarian to their core.
    Another joke, shot down by the literal minded.
    This isn't the site for gentle irony
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,726
    DougSeal said:

    ohnotnow said:

    trukat said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    To quote one of my favourite Youtube cookery channels "Nothing bad ever happened on medium".
    Except the restriction of jury trials? digital id? weakening the right to silence? Labour are authoritarian to their core.
    Another joke, shot down by the literal minded.
    This isn't the site for gentle irony
    Fascist.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 100
    ohnotnow said:

    trukat said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    To quote one of my favourite Youtube cookery channels "Nothing bad ever happened on medium".
    Except the restriction of jury trials? digital id? weakening the right to silence? Labour are authoritarian to their core.
    Another joke, shot down by the literal minded.
    I do not find this government very funny sorry. People are asleep as their rights disappear, and once gone they may be difficult to get back.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 347
    IanB2 said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    My advice, which is very good advice, is to learn how to spell advice properly, so that others will take your own advice more seriously than advice given in a post where you cant actually spell the word advice, thereby detracting from the credibility of your own advice; just my advice, obvs.
    Predictive text. My mistake. My advice to you, try resisting the tendency to pedantry. It makes you seem extraordinarily petty.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,989
    edited December 18

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

    One of my theories of the New Radicalism is that its leaders are bored, frustrated, wannabe Men Of Action. Yes, I am looking at you, Glasman. And you, Farage.

    Whereas for your average person, varying shades of Butskellism have turned out to be more effective at delivering better lives to more people more sustainably than anything else anyone has come up with.
    Butskellism made things (ok forget Dr Beeching) Faragism just breaks things. The irony is by breaking things; curtailing EU membership leading to the Boriswave he becomes more popular. It's like a political Stockholm Syndrome.
  • DougSeal said:

    Omnium said:

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.

    Q: What kind of music do elves listen to?

    A: Wrap.

    Puns don't kill people, wrappers do.
    “Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug.

    (What did he do?)

    He used sarcasm. He knew all the tricks. Dramatic irony, bathos, puns, parody, hyperbole, litotes and satire.

    He was vicious.”
    I'm almost certain that pulling your own head off is impossible. A very nicely phrased post though. Where's the quote from?
    My annual appraisal
    This is still making me chuckle.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,501
    ohnotnow said:

    DougSeal said:

    ohnotnow said:

    trukat said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    To quote one of my favourite Youtube cookery channels "Nothing bad ever happened on medium".
    Except the restriction of jury trials? digital id? weakening the right to silence? Labour are authoritarian to their core.
    Another joke, shot down by the literal minded.
    This isn't the site for gentle irony
    Fascist.
    Hag.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,491

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    Yep, left orientated social democracy, mixed economy, progressive tax and spend, equal rights, internationalist, free chocolate hobnobs, is the End of History.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,179
    rcs1000 said:
    I give it until May before the Feds decide that investing in fusion technology is critical for the future of the US
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 4,051
    DougSeal said:

    DougSeal said:

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    I seem to recall that my council keeps expense returns for 2 years so the statute of limitations line may be bogus?
    Fucking hell. It’s easy to determine if the line is bogus. It took me two minutes and the answer is “no” -

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/2/section/176

    The capacity of people to suspect bad faith is a lot of the reason we’re in the shit we’re in as a society.
    OK. Good point. But Nigel is "special". Does that work for you?
    He’s special alright
    Special needs?
  • DougSeal said:

    Not sure if this has been discussed yet so apologgies if repeating earlier posts (I did look back to lunchtime and saw no mention)

    So the Police will not invetsgate the claims that Farage overspent to get elected at the GE because of statute of limitations.

    Two questions that this raises for me.

    1. Why is the statute of limitations so short for this potential crime? We are only 18 months after the election so I would have thought anything this serious should still be prosecutable.

    2. If the police can't do anything, is there any other body with legal powers that can investigate? They may not be able to prosecute but could they demand a by-election if he is found to have cheated. Does this fall under the remit of the Electoral Commission or the Commons authorities?

    As you all know I was and still am very pro-Brexit. I also recognise we would never have got the referendum without Farage's many years of work for it. But that doesn't mean he should be treated any differently to anyone else who has broken electoral law. If elections are not fair and honest then they count for nothing.

    I seem to recall that my council keeps expense returns for 2 years so the statute of limitations line may be bogus?
    Fucking hell. It’s easy to determine if the line is bogus. It took me two minutes and the answer is “no” -

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1983/2/section/176

    The capacity of people to suspect bad faith is a lot of the reason we’re in the shit we’re in as a society.
    Fucking hell. Don't tell him how easy it is. How are we lawyers supposed to charge £500 an hour for this stuff if you pull back the curtain ;) ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,613
    I wish to bring to your attention this trailer for "The Sheep Detectives": https://youtu.be/pyZI5oM6hWk?si=CL_doWfOZhgnOPi8

    I smell Oscars.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,989
    scampi25 said:

    IanB2 said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    My advice, which is very good advice, is to learn how to spell advice properly, so that others will take your own advice more seriously than advice given in a post where you cant actually spell the word advice, thereby detracting from the credibility of your own advice; just my advice, obvs.
    Predictive text. My mistake. My advice to you, try resisting the tendency to pedantry. It makes you seem extraordinarily petty.
    You can find PB using What.Three.Words you know. Very.Petty.Pedantry.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,613
    scampi25 said:

    IanB2 said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    My advice, which is very good advice, is to learn how to spell advice properly, so that others will take your own advice more seriously than advice given in a post where you cant actually spell the word advice, thereby detracting from the credibility of your own advice; just my advice, obvs.
    Predictive text. My mistake. My advice to you, try resisting the tendency to pedantry. It makes you seem extraordinarily petty.
    What? Trump-level petty?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,501

    I wish to bring to your attention this trailer for "The Sheep Detectives": https://youtu.be/pyZI5oM6hWk?si=CL_doWfOZhgnOPi8

    I smell Oscars.

    Odd hobby to have, given they have no scent.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 48,491

    Rory wins and well deserved

    I was relieved he won. Felt surprisingly strongly about it. I've followed his career since he emerged as a teenager.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,126
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    Yep, left orientated social democracy, mixed economy, progressive tax and spend, equal rights, internationalist, free chocolate hobnobs, is the End of History.
    Chocolate hobnobs? Easy now. You’ll be referred to Prevent
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,500

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    Gavin Barwell is a particularly unappealing lib dem adjacent entryist. He may deserve tactical votes from Lib Dem, Labour and Green voters - he sure as heck doesn't deserve any from Tories.
    You know who else was a Lib Dem entryist who fucked the Tories so badly from which they may never recover'?
    David Cameron?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,126
    ydoethur said:

    I wish to bring to your attention this trailer for "The Sheep Detectives": https://youtu.be/pyZI5oM6hWk?si=CL_doWfOZhgnOPi8

    I smell Oscars.

    Odd hobby to have, given they have no scent.
    Oscar the Grouch lives in a literal rubbish bin, of course he has a scent.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,019
    edited December 18
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    Yep, left orientated social democracy, mixed economy, progressive tax and spend, equal rights, internationalist, free chocolate hobnobs, is the End of History.
    Chocolate hobnobs? Easy now. You’ll be referred to Prevent
    Chocolate hobnobs are too extreme to be centrist. Extremely delicious. But still.

    (Chocolate malted milks are better.)
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 40,116

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

    One of my theories of the New Radicalism is that its leaders are bored, frustrated, wannabe Men Of Action. Yes, I am looking at you, Glasman. And you, Farage.

    Whereas for your average person, varying shades of Butskellism have turned out to be more effective at delivering better lives to more people more sustainably than anything else anyone has come up with.
    There must be a book to be written about how societies that had brilliant, charismatic, leaders, and immense cultural achievements - completely destroyed themselves. Late Republican Rome, Renaissance Italy, Classical Hellas, are the go-to examples.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,314
    Is Bondi the next one out?

    @whignewtons

    Wow--DOJ has a *big* problem: Over the past eight weeks, the dismissal rate of criminal complaints in D.C. has risen to 21%, compared to 0.5% over the past decade.

    https://x.com/whignewtons/status/2001677568303399099?s=20
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,126
    Sean_F said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

    One of my theories of the New Radicalism is that its leaders are bored, frustrated, wannabe Men Of Action. Yes, I am looking at you, Glasman. And you, Farage.

    Whereas for your average person, varying shades of Butskellism have turned out to be more effective at delivering better lives to more people more sustainably than anything else anyone has come up with.
    There must be a book to be written about how societies that had brilliant, charismatic, leaders, and immense cultural achievements - completely destroyed themselves. Late Republican Rome, Renaissance Italy, Classical Hellas, are the go-to examples.
    Charlie and the Chocolate Factory
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,179
    kle4 said:

    Ratters said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Trump Media is merging with a nuclear fusion company. Of course they are.
    His other businesses were a mess and, whilst wealthy, not as valuable as he would claim. Trump Media has been a real godsend for him, he really leveraged being President to make money.
    In spades. "Ask not what you can do in the White House for the country, ask what being in the White House can do for you."
    On the plus side, he'll be dead before he manages to use all his corruptly gotten gains.

    On the downside, his children appear to be as awful as him.
    Worse.
    It is difficult to contemplate, but DT does have the redeeming feature that he is not DT Jr
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 7,165

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias, they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love, they had five hundred years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.

    One of my theories of the New Radicalism is that its leaders are bored, frustrated, wannabe Men Of Action. Yes, I am looking at you, Glasman. And you, Farage.

    Whereas for your average person, varying shades of Butskellism have turned out to be more effective at delivering better lives to more people more sustainably than anything else anyone has come up with.
    Butskellism made things (ok forget Dr Beeching) Faragism just breaks things. The irony is by breaking things; curtailing EU membership leading to the Boriswave he becomes more popular. It's like a political Stockholm Syndrome.
    Butler wasn’t responsible for Beeching. Marples was the bounder who helped destroy our railway system for personal gain.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,500
    ohnotnow said:

    trukat said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    To quote one of my favourite Youtube cookery channels "Nothing bad ever happened on medium".
    Except the restriction of jury trials? digital id? weakening the right to silence? Labour are authoritarian to their core.
    Another joke, shot down by the literal minded.
    The world being happier when ruled by centrists is a classic case of correlation not equalling causation. Centrists are elected when countries are wealthy (and therefore happy) - they do not create the wealth. The right does that. The right is elected when centrists have buggered it up, as happens invariably.

    When our country had recovered (partially) from post-war stagnation - under a radical Tory Government, we were rich, and elected a succession of mushy centralists because there was no perceived need for anything other than to be 'nice' and 'progressive'. Now that such people have wrecked the economy and the country, we need to elect non-centrists again.

    It's like blaming firemen for fires.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,179

    "Congratulations to President Kennedy"

    https://x.com/PressSec/status/2001717032191168839

    I have just been informed that the highly respected Board of the Kennedy Center, some of the most successful people from all parts of the world, have just voted unanimously to rename the Kennedy Center to the Trump-Kennedy Center, because of the unbelievable work President Trump has done over the last year in saving the building. Not only from the standpoint of its reconstruction, but also financially, and its reputation. Congratulations to President Donald J. Trump, and likewise, congratulations to President Kennedy, because this will be a truly great team long into the future! The building will no doubt attain new levels of success and grandeur.

    If I was on the board I’d probably vote to change the name. Ultimately it doesn’t matter, makes him look ridiculous and will be changed back in 3 years or so. But if you vote against it you have a vengeful president to deal with.

    Pick your battles
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,450
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    Yep, left orientated social democracy, mixed economy, progressive tax and spend, equal rights, internationalist, free chocolate hobnobs, is the End of History.
    Chocolate Hobnobs?

    Landslide for left orientated social democracy incoming!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,912
    DougSeal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    Yep, left orientated social democracy, mixed economy, progressive tax and spend, equal rights, internationalist, free chocolate hobnobs, is the End of History.
    Chocolate hobnobs? Easy now. You’ll be referred to Prevent
    The king of biscuits.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,314

    "Congratulations to President Kennedy"

    https://x.com/PressSec/status/2001717032191168839

    I have just been informed that the highly respected Board of the Kennedy Center, some of the most successful people from all parts of the world, have just voted unanimously to rename the Kennedy Center to the Trump-Kennedy Center, because of the unbelievable work President Trump has done over the last year in saving the building. Not only from the standpoint of its reconstruction, but also financially, and its reputation. Congratulations to President Donald J. Trump, and likewise, congratulations to President Kennedy, because this will be a truly great team long into the future! The building will no doubt attain new levels of success and grandeur.

    If I was on the board I’d probably vote to change the name. Ultimately it doesn’t matter, makes him look ridiculous and will be changed back in 3 years or so. But if you vote against it you have a vengeful president to deal with.

    Pick your battles
    They muted board members who wanted to vote against. It's also illegal to change the name, as if that mattered.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,501
    edited December 18

    kle4 said:

    Ratters said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Trump Media is merging with a nuclear fusion company. Of course they are.
    His other businesses were a mess and, whilst wealthy, not as valuable as he would claim. Trump Media has been a real godsend for him, he really leveraged being President to make money.
    In spades. "Ask not what you can do in the White House for the country, ask what being in the White House can do for you."
    On the plus side, he'll be dead before he manages to use all his corruptly gotten gains.

    On the downside, his children appear to be as awful as him.
    Worse.
    It is difficult to contemplate, but DT does have the redeeming feature that he is not DT Jr
    If Donald is the King of Trumps, and Ivanka (or possibly Eric) the Queen, is Donald Junior the Knave?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,314
    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Ratters said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Trump Media is merging with a nuclear fusion company. Of course they are.
    His other businesses were a mess and, whilst wealthy, not as valuable as he would claim. Trump Media has been a real godsend for him, he really leveraged being President to make money.
    In spades. "Ask not what you can do in the White House for the country, ask what being in the White House can do for you."
    On the plus side, he'll be dead before he manages to use all his corruptly gotten gains.

    On the downside, his children appear to be as awful as him.
    Worse.
    It is difficult to contemplate, but DT does have the redeeming feature that he is not DT Jr
    If Donald is the King of Trumps, and Ivanka (or possibly Eric) the Queen, is Donald Junior the Knave?
    One of the new Epstein photos shows Trump with kids, presumably Ivanka and DJ
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,450
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Ratters said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Trump Media is merging with a nuclear fusion company. Of course they are.
    His other businesses were a mess and, whilst wealthy, not as valuable as he would claim. Trump Media has been a real godsend for him, he really leveraged being President to make money.
    In spades. "Ask not what you can do in the White House for the country, ask what being in the White House can do for you."
    On the plus side, he'll be dead before he manages to use all his corruptly gotten gains.

    On the downside, his children appear to be as awful as him.
    Worse.
    It is difficult to contemplate, but DT does have the redeeming feature that he is not DT Jr
    If Donald is the King of Trumps, and Ivanka (or possibly Eric) the Queen, is Donald Junior the Knave?
    One of the new Epstein photos shows Trump with kids, presumably Ivanka and DJ
    Of course. It couldn't be anyone elses kids. Impossible.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,613

    ohnotnow said:

    trukat said:

    ohnotnow said:

    kinabalu said:

    scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    You do always get that. Eg Reform/Tory supporters say Labour have to do Reform/Tory things to save themselves. Ultra Conservatives say the Dems must ditch the social justice agenda if they are ever to regain the WH. And (tbf and to show what an objective cove I am) people like me say if they have any sense the Cons should tack back to One Nation moderation.
    I always find the World is a happier place when run by Centrists either to the centre left (my preference) or the centre right, which is why I would always recommend centrism over fascism, be that Russian fascism, Trump fascism or schoolboy anti-Semitic, racist fascism.
    To quote one of my favourite Youtube cookery channels "Nothing bad ever happened on medium".
    Except the restriction of jury trials? digital id? weakening the right to silence? Labour are authoritarian to their core.
    Another joke, shot down by the literal minded.
    The world being happier when ruled by centrists is a classic case of correlation not equalling causation. Centrists are elected when countries are wealthy (and therefore happy) - they do not create the wealth. The right does that. The right is elected when centrists have buggered it up, as happens invariably.

    When our country had recovered (partially) from post-war stagnation - under a radical Tory Government, we were rich, and elected a succession of mushy centralists because there was no perceived need for anything other than to be 'nice' and 'progressive'. Now that such people have wrecked the economy and the country, we need to elect non-centrists again.

    It's like blaming firemen for fires.
    Who has buggered up the US and Hungary?
  • Foxy said:
    Boris thought his memoir was a step on the road back to power too. Two flaws in the logic.

    One is that the symbolism of writing a memoir is that your career is entering its twilight. The other (more important) one is that good memoirs are candid, and active politicians simply aren't allowed to be candid.

    (The nearest I can think of as an exception is the Alan Clark Diaries. But he was unusual, even by the standards of MPs. Mostly playing a different game of his own devising.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,560

    kle4 said:

    Ratters said:

    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    Trump Media is merging with a nuclear fusion company. Of course they are.
    His other businesses were a mess and, whilst wealthy, not as valuable as he would claim. Trump Media has been a real godsend for him, he really leveraged being President to make money.
    In spades. "Ask not what you can do in the White House for the country, ask what being in the White House can do for you."
    On the plus side, he'll be dead before he manages to use all his corruptly gotten gains.

    On the downside, his children appear to be as awful as him.
    Worse.
    It is difficult to contemplate, but DT does have the redeeming feature that he is not DT Jr
    He's responsible for producing him, though.
  • On topic: SNP are mental shock.

    Off topic: Trump announces the Hunger Games!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,586
    Breaking - having said, when it postponed the new mayoral elections, that council elections in those areas would still be going ahead in May, the government has now asked all councils in areas affected by local government re-organisation whether this decision should be revisited, and elections postponed after all.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,314

    Off topic: Trump announces the Hunger Games!

    https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/2001778804952600751?s=20
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,711
    Brussels looks like a war zone:

    https://x.com/RosieBirchard/status/2001686574132556226

    This is what opposition to the EU-Mercosur trade deal looks like: hundreds of angry farmers in Brussels setting fires and smashing windows. They complain of unfair competition & are furious at the EU. Others warn derailing the deal now would be a geopolitical disaster for Europe.
  • On topic: SNP are mental shock.

    Off topic: Trump announces the Hunger Games!

    Unfair.

    a) Patriot Games is a totally different name.
    b) The winning Tributes aren't going to be able to get extra food rations for their District.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,613

    Brussels looks like a war zone:

    https://x.com/RosieBirchard/status/2001686574132556226

    This is what opposition to the EU-Mercosur trade deal looks like: hundreds of angry farmers in Brussels setting fires and smashing windows. They complain of unfair competition & are furious at the EU. Others warn derailing the deal now would be a geopolitical disaster for Europe.

    I think we just call that a robust culture of freedom of speech.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,504
    On the Palestine Action hunge4 strikers, the Good Law Priject have a post on X which is not getting the responses they hope…

    https://x.com/GoodLawProject/status/2001606978213224732

    Some on PB will be horrified at the lack of compassion…

    …for thugs who are alleged to have broken a woman’s back with a sledgehammer.

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,613

    On the Palestine Action hunge4 strikers, the Good Law Priject have a post on X which is not getting the responses they hope…

    https://x.com/GoodLawProject/status/2001606978213224732

    Some on PB will be horrified at the lack of compassion…

    …for thugs who are alleged to have broken a woman’s back with a sledgehammer.

    Are the individual on hunger strike alleged to be the people in that attack?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,339

    On the Palestine Action hunge4 strikers, the Good Law Priject have a post on X which is not getting the responses they hope…

    https://x.com/GoodLawProject/status/2001606978213224732

    Some on PB will be horrified at the lack of compassion…

    …for thugs who are alleged to have broken a woman’s back with a sledgehammer.

    Are the individual on hunger strike alleged to be the people in that attack?
    Common Cause..
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,613

    On the Palestine Action hunge4 strikers, the Good Law Priject have a post on X which is not getting the responses they hope…

    https://x.com/GoodLawProject/status/2001606978213224732

    Some on PB will be horrified at the lack of compassion…

    …for thugs who are alleged to have broken a woman’s back with a sledgehammer.

    Are the individual on hunger strike alleged to be the people in that attack?
    Common Cause..
    I’m not convinced that protects you from having committed libel.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,504

    On the Palestine Action hunge4 strikers, the Good Law Priject have a post on X which is not getting the responses they hope…

    https://x.com/GoodLawProject/status/2001606978213224732

    Some on PB will be horrified at the lack of compassion…

    …for thugs who are alleged to have broken a woman’s back with a sledgehammer.

    Are the individual on hunger strike alleged to be the people in that attack?
    Reports suggest they are on remand awaiting trial for break ins and/criminal damage. I think it’s likely linked to the assault on the police woman, but that may be wrong.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,504
    edited December 18
    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79727zeqyvo

    I presume at least one off them is accused of this, but maybe not.
  • scampi25 said:

    It's very amusing to here all the advise for the Tories from non-tories. Anyone would think the panic about Reform was growing. Yet only the other day some were posting that Reform had peaked. Indeed I doubt they can get much beyond 33/5% and probably less. However, it's also quite possibly true tha the Labour bottom is not yet there. All very funny.

    Gavin Barwell is a particularly unappealing lib dem adjacent entryist. He may deserve tactical votes from Lib Dem, Labour and Green voters - he sure as heck doesn't deserve any from Tories.
    You know who else was a Lib Dem entryist who fucked the Tories so badly from which they may never recover'?
    David Cameron?
    Cameron HATES the concept of AV...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,450

    On the Palestine Action hunge4 strikers, the Good Law Priject have a post on X which is not getting the responses they hope…

    https://x.com/GoodLawProject/status/2001606978213224732

    Some on PB will be horrified at the lack of compassion…

    …for thugs who are alleged to have broken a woman’s back with a sledgehammer.

    I am not surprised at all as the responses on X are dominated by the hateful, bots and trolls. Indeed I would be surprised if they were not deeply unpleasant.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,504
    Foxy said:

    On the Palestine Action hunge4 strikers, the Good Law Priject have a post on X which is not getting the responses they hope…

    https://x.com/GoodLawProject/status/2001606978213224732

    Some on PB will be horrified at the lack of compassion…

    …for thugs who are alleged to have broken a woman’s back with a sledgehammer.

    I am not surprised at all as the responses on X are dominated by the hateful, bots and trolls. Indeed I would be surprised if they were not deeply unpleasant.
    I think you’d find many, most people think they are idiots who only need to eat to avoid dying. Jolyon seems to see a malign government hand where there is none.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 46,072

    On the Palestine Action hunge4 strikers, the Good Law Priject have a post on X which is not getting the responses they hope…

    https://x.com/GoodLawProject/status/2001606978213224732

    Some on PB will be horrified at the lack of compassion…

    …for thugs who are alleged to have broken a woman’s back with a sledgehammer.

    Are the individual on hunger strike alleged to be the people in that attack?
    Collective punishers gotta punish collectively.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,450
    edited December 18

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79727zeqyvo

    I presume at least one off them is accused of this, but maybe not.

    These are the seven current PA hungerstrikers. They don't appear to be the same people named in that BBC report.

    https://prisonersforpalestine.org/

    Of course as there has not yet been a trial there is a presumption of innocence and allegation of assault with a sledgehammer untested in court. The defendants have stated they were using the sledgehammer to stop arms being manufactured for export to Israel and the police officer was accidentally injured by attempting to seize it. Lets see what evidence gets produced in court.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,504
    Foxy said:

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79727zeqyvo

    I presume at least one off them is accused of this, but maybe not.

    These are the seven current PA hungerstrikers. They dont appear to be the same people named in that BBC report.

    https://prisonersforpalestine.org/

    Of course as there has not yet been a trial there is a presumption of innocence and allegation of assault with a sledgehammer untested in court.
    They are on remand for serious offences, and clearly the authorities believed they would be a danger if released. Just like many other presumed innocent people held on remand. Some of their demands are ludicrous.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,726
    Rather off-topic, but as is Youtube's want, it surfaced something that caught my eye:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blPVNVhuQnY

    Harry J All Stars - "Liquidator"

    The film footage as well as the music took me back. Maybe because I've also been rewatching a lot of TV shows from around then.

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0711172/?ref_=ttfc_ov_bk

    Has especially struck me. Apart from the 'very much of it's time' language - it occurred to me that the young S.Asian actress must have been about the first on mainstream TV to have an obvious 'ethnic heritage' but also a natural Scottish accent. Which cheered me up.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 8,019
    Foxy said:

    https://bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c79727zeqyvo

    I presume at least one off them is accused of this, but maybe not.

    These are the seven current PA hungerstrikers. They don't appear to be the same people named in that BBC report.

    https://prisonersforpalestine.org/

    Of course as there has not yet been a trial there is a presumption of innocence and allegation of assault with a sledgehammer untested in court. The defendants have stated they were using the sledgehammer to stop arms being manufactured for export to Israel and the police officer was accidentally injured by attempting to seize it. Lets see what evidence gets produced in court.
    Not their business to "stop arms being manufactured for export to Israel" though, is it? We have democratic processes for that.
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