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  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,230

    Acyn
    @Acyn

    Reporter: What changes do you want to see at CNN?

    Trump: I am not involved in that, I will be probably involved maybe in the decision... I think CNN should be sold because the people that are running CNN right now are either corrupt or incompetent.

    Reporter: Will that be a factor in the decision making?

    Trump: In my mind, but I can be talked out of it

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1998860067890933844
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,955
    Foxy said:

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I don't but I did.
    It started to be a shithole under Boris and Khan has made it infinitely worse for Londoners.
    I never go.to London(inner) if I can avoid it.
    Thats bollocks. London is a much nicer, cleaner and safer city than it was decades ago.

    Leicester has gone downhill over the last couple of decades. The Golden Mile isn't what it was. Our Indian community is now wealthy enough to shop in Gujerat rather than the Belgrave Road. The city centre has lost a lot of anchor stores to the retail park near the motorway.
    Happily, sometimes retail parks have a shelf life:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgz3927kqyo
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,383


    Acyn
    @Acyn

    Reporter: What changes do you want to see at CNN?

    Trump: I am not involved in that, I will be probably involved maybe in the decision... I think CNN should be sold because the people that are running CNN right now are either corrupt or incompetent.

    Reporter: Will that be a factor in the decision making?

    Trump: In my mind, but I can be talked out of it

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1998860067890933844

    Classic misspeak again. Saying 'talked' when he meant 'bribed.'
  • kinabalu said:

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    Perhaps if he got stuck halfway up a tripwire Tories would warm to him.
    Thing is that a Big City Mayor needs to be able to turn on the kilowatt lightbulb from time to time. My City Is The Best City In The World, that kind of thing. The sort of thing that Andy B does for Manchester, that both Boris and Ken did for London.

    Boris's problem is that the lightbulb was on all the bloody time, and it was all he brought to the job. GLA Ken was probably the ideal- able to operate well both front-of-house and backstage to get what he wanted done and make sure that everyone knew about it.

    As for Sadiq- citywide ULEZ is a decent legacy, but I suspect he's played out now. But then you look around for a replacement... who is there? The list of defeated rivals- Zac Goldsmith, Shaun Bailey and Susan Hall- doesn't scream 'quality field". Neither does the Labour longlist from 2016.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,989

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    No. It’s not. I despise Khan. I think he’s useless and incompetent and a horrible mayor.

    But he’s not vicious or disgusting, words which speak to him as a person rather than his performance as an elected official
    If you "despise" Sadiq Khan what word would you reach for to sum up your feelings about Donald Trump?
    I’m flying to the US next week so I might plead the 5th.

    (“Despise” may be a little strong but he’s redolent of a political class that is self interested, careerist and ineffective. We deserve better leaders. Unfortunately the voters don’t like people who tell them the truth.)
    Khan took a brave stance on clean air - the ULEZ extension was unpopular and he faced concerted opposition but he did it because he thought it was the right thing and it has worked - the air in London now meets international health standards. I can't think of another recent UK politician who has taken that kind of brave, non-populist stance. Call him what you want, but he is neither ineffective nor some kind of shallow careerist.
    The recent air quality improvements in London are more to do with the euro 6 engine, and, thats about it. Its the cleanest for hundreds of years and most of that improvement happened decades ago.
    You don't think that a measure designed to incentivise the take up of cleaner engines might have played a role at all? The earlier ULEZ extension led me to sell my Euro 5 diesel and buy a Euro 6 diesel. The air quality improvement in London was significantly greater than outside London. Of course ULEZ was important. I find it staggering that people can't credit Khan for his success here.
    Some people absolutely hate the idea of a government regulation actually working and having a positive impact. We're already seeing it with renewables - that the transition and all the good that is coming out of that would have happened anyway without meddling woke green-types. We also see it with road safety - claims that the number of fatalities would have fallen anyway without speed limits, EU regulations etc etc

    It's not something to be overly worried about tbh - it's a sign that the argument has been won. ULEZ is a good example of a regulation that was announced early (Johnson, 2015), giving time for people to adjust, and a politician putting up with extreme levels of vitriol and criminality to cement the change in place (Khan, 2020). Good work from everyone.
    Even Private Eye is being extremely positive about ULEZ.
    Here is an image host of a graph of the various air pollutants in london over time:
    https://ibb.co/pr34v718
    No source given. And suspiciously recent.
    The joys of AI it can hunt out the information. But you need to have a bit of background on this kind of stuff to make sure it isnt hallucinating, and this trend tends to fit an older piece of data I have.

    https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/documents/annualreport/air_pollution_uk_2023_issue_1.pdf
    and
    https://aqicn.org/city/london/
    and
    https://www.londonair.org.uk/LondonAir/Default.aspx
    Sorry, the first is no good at once for ULEZ as it is about 2023. The second isn't any good as it is only real time. And the third makes a point of saying that it's up to date to 2016 for accurate historical map figures.

    Plus an average as per the original map is useless - it's the street level figures one needs.

    Finally, *anything* proffered by AI is suspect given the politicization of the issue.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,484

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I don't but I did.
    It started to be a shithole under Boris and Khan has made it infinitely worse for Londoners.
    I never go.to London(inner) if I can avoid it.
    Ok. I mean, I live in inner London and it is much nicer than it used to be, but I suppose I must be imagining the great pubs and brilliant restaurants and beautiful parks like I imagined the improvement in air quality and the fucking huge tunnel I drove through under the Thames. I'm so lucky I have you provincial chaps on here to set me right, when I'd otherwise have to rely on my own eyes to figure out the state of things.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,605
    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    carnforth said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB cooking update: crushed new potatoes with garlic anchovy butter and tuna



    Family rating: 9/10

    Then my first ever attempt at chocolate souffle, using a Swiss meringue base. Sadly I over whipped the base, which I will learn from.



    Still everyone said it was delicious and all was eaten.

    Personal rating: 6/10

    Deets on the tuna please? You trailed it as fancy yesterday but gave no brand...
    Here you go:



    The tuna ($14) cost as much as all the other ingredients combined. But it was worth it.
    Isn't there some rule on PB about the number of pictures you are allowed to post?

    Sure.

    But there's also the golden rule.

    He who pays the gold (server bills), makes the rules.
    Is serving static images still expensive these days? Or is it Vanilla overcharging?
    I'll give you two guesses.

    I'm going to bring it all in house at some point.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244
    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,484

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    Martin Wolf?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,785
    edited December 10

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    David Dimbleby. Nick Watt. Matthew Parris.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,230
    ydoethur said:


    Acyn
    @Acyn

    Reporter: What changes do you want to see at CNN?

    Trump: I am not involved in that, I will be probably involved maybe in the decision... I think CNN should be sold because the people that are running CNN right now are either corrupt or incompetent.

    Reporter: Will that be a factor in the decision making?

    Trump: In my mind, but I can be talked out of it

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1998860067890933844

    Classic misspeak again. Saying 'talked' when he meant 'bribed.'
    Twitter is already joking about a 'CNN Peace Prize'.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,605

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    John McAfee
  • Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
  • kinabalu said:

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    Perhaps if he got stuck halfway up a tripwire Tories would warm to him.
    Or wasted millions of pounds on some pointless bridge that nobody wanted and never got built.
    And cancelled the bridge that SHOULD have been built...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thames_Gateway_Bridge
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,139

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    No. It’s not. I despise Khan. I think he’s useless and incompetent and a horrible mayor.

    But he’s not vicious or disgusting, words which speak to him as a person rather than his performance as an elected official
    If you "despise" Sadiq Khan what word would you reach for to sum up your feelings about Donald Trump?
    I’m flying to the US next week so I might plead the 5th.

    (“Despise” may be a little strong but he’s redolent of a political class that is self interested, careerist and ineffective. We deserve better leaders. Unfortunately the voters don’t like people who tell them the truth.)
    Khan took a brave stance on clean air - the ULEZ extension was unpopular and he faced concerted opposition but he did it because he thought it was the right thing and it has worked - the air in London now meets international health standards. I can't think of another recent UK politician who has taken that kind of brave, non-populist stance. Call him what you want, but he is neither ineffective nor some kind of shallow careerist.
    The recent air quality improvements in London are more to do with the euro 6 engine, and, thats about it. Its the cleanest for hundreds of years and most of that improvement happened decades ago.
    You don't think that a measure designed to incentivise the take up of cleaner engines might have played a role at all? The earlier ULEZ extension led me to sell my Euro 5 diesel and buy a Euro 6 diesel. The air quality improvement in London was significantly greater than outside London. Of course ULEZ was important. I find it staggering that people can't credit Khan for his success here.
    Some people absolutely hate the idea of a government regulation actually working and having a positive impact. We're already seeing it with renewables - that the transition and all the good that is coming out of that would have happened anyway without meddling woke green-types. We also see it with road safety - claims that the number of fatalities would have fallen anyway without speed limits, EU regulations etc etc

    It's not something to be overly worried about tbh - it's a sign that the argument has been won. ULEZ is a good example of a regulation that was announced early (Johnson, 2015), giving time for people to adjust, and a politician putting up with extreme levels of vitriol and criminality to cement the change in place (Khan, 2020). Good work from everyone.
    Even Private Eye is being extremely positive about ULEZ.
    Here is an image host of a graph of the various air pollutants in london over time:
    https://ibb.co/pr34v718
    No source given. And suspiciously recent.
    The joys of AI it can hunt out the information. But you need to have a bit of background on this kind of stuff to make sure it isnt hallucinating, and this trend tends to fit an older piece of data I have.

    https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/documents/annualreport/air_pollution_uk_2023_issue_1.pdf
    and
    https://aqicn.org/city/london/
    and
    https://www.londonair.org.uk/LondonAir/Default.aspx
    Air pollution in London, like many kinds of pollution has been quietly falling for years. This is a combination of ratcheting standards, and modern technology.

    Lots of steps on the way, and it’s an ongoing process.

    For example, the Boris Buses were about reducing pollution from buses, to meet increasing standards - some of the old buses were practically rolling coal.

    Another was encouraging minicab drivers to switch from old bangers to Priuses - largely through enforcement on checks for MOT/Insurance/etc.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,885
    edited December 10
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/10/britain-in-talks-with-argentina-falklands-era-weapon-ban/

    The subtext of this is Starmer is preparing to give them guns and the Falklands? Perhaps guns in lieu of cash… :D
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,955
    RobD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/10/britain-in-talks-with-argentina-falklands-era-weapon-ban/

    The subtext of this is Starmer is preparing to give them guns and the Falklands? Perhaps guns in lieu of cash… :D

    Give 'em Chagos.
  • Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I don't but I did.
    It started to be a shithole under Boris and Khan has made it infinitely worse for Londoners.
    I never go.to London(inner) if I can avoid it.
    Ok. I mean, I live in inner London and it is much nicer than it used to be, but I suppose I must be imagining the great pubs and brilliant restaurants and beautiful parks like I imagined the improvement in air quality and the fucking huge tunnel I drove through under the Thames. I'm so lucky I have you provincial chaps on here to set me right, when I'd otherwise have to rely on my own eyes to figure out the state of things.
    Don't forget the pointy-nosed purple trains. The psychological difference between standing on a Zone 6 platform to go to Liverpool Street and standing on the same platform to go to Tottenham Court Rd or Heathrow is both trivial and massive.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,605
    edited December 10

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824
    ydoethur said:


    Acyn
    @Acyn

    Reporter: What changes do you want to see at CNN?

    Trump: I am not involved in that, I will be probably involved maybe in the decision... I think CNN should be sold because the people that are running CNN right now are either corrupt or incompetent.

    Reporter: Will that be a factor in the decision making?

    Trump: In my mind, but I can be talked out of it

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1998860067890933844

    Classic misspeak again. Saying 'talked' when he meant 'bribed.'
    Money is speech in America, per Supreme Court decisions about campaign funding?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050
    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I think he's shit and live in London. He's there because of demographics and no other reason. Though even that might not be enough to save him next time.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,605
    RobD said:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/12/10/britain-in-talks-with-argentina-falklands-era-weapon-ban/

    The subtext of this is Starmer is preparing to give them guns and the Falklands? Perhaps guns in lieu of cash… :D

    If they toss in @malcolmg, I'm sure we can get a majority of PBers on board too.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
  • Trump loves pardons as it reminds him of his past.

    Back then it was "you're fired" now its "you're freed".

    No need to worry about political votes or public opinion or bond markets or economic stats.
  • kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    No. It’s not. I despise Khan. I think he’s useless and incompetent and a horrible mayor.

    But he’s not vicious or disgusting, words which speak to him as a person rather than his performance as an elected official
    If you "despise" Sadiq Khan what word would you reach for to sum up your feelings about Donald Trump?
    I’m flying to the US next week so I might plead the 5th.

    (“Despise” may be a little strong but he’s redolent of a political class that is self interested, careerist and ineffective. We deserve better leaders. Unfortunately the voters don’t like people who tell them the truth.)
    Khan took a brave stance on clean air - the ULEZ extension was unpopular and he faced concerted opposition but he did it because he thought it was the right thing and it has worked - the air in London now meets international health standards. I can't think of another recent UK politician who has taken that kind of brave, non-populist stance. Call him what you want, but he is neither ineffective nor some kind of shallow careerist.
    One thing in, what, 10 years? And my taxes have gone up by the maximum he can each year, while the TfL service gets worse and their losses increase. He’s a useless bureaucrat
    What taxes has he raised?

    I assume you aren't talking about income tax a nd council tax
    Council tax over £2000 for Band D.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244
    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    At the same time there were Trump's comments on Paris.

    The reality is that the authorities have effectively cancelled the new year celebrations in Paris because of safety concerns. That ought to be giving us pause for thought.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,605
    MaxPB said:

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I think he's shit and live in London. He's there because of demographics and no other reason. Though even that might not be enough to save him next time.
    He's there because he was the Labour candidate, and the Conservatives were in power in Westminster.

    A one legged donkey wearing a red rosette would have won the London mayoral election in 2016.
  • Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
    He's a man who repeatedly describes himself as a centrist. Have you read/listened to anything he's written/said?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
    He's a man who repeatedly describes himself as a centrist. Have you read/listened to anything he's written/said?
    He seems very much on the social liberal end of the spectrum to me. The fact he thinks he's a centrist doesn't really prove anything.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I think he's shit and live in London. He's there because of demographics and no other reason. Though even that might not be enough to save him next time.
    He's there because he was the Labour candidate, and the Conservatives were in power in Westminster.

    A one legged donkey wearing a red rosette would have won the London mayoral election in 2016.
    Yes in 2016 I agree. I don't think a non-Muslim candidate can win in London now unless the Muslim opponent it's someone blatantly corrupt like the politicians we see from Tower Hamlets and outer London voters are annoyed enough to do something about it.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    ????????
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,955

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
    He's a man who repeatedly describes himself as a centrist. Have you read/listened to anything he's written/said?
    He wrote a book called "How to be a liberal". Not "How to be a centrist".
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478
    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,605
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I think he's shit and live in London. He's there because of demographics and no other reason. Though even that might not be enough to save him next time.
    He's there because he was the Labour candidate, and the Conservatives were in power in Westminster.

    A one legged donkey wearing a red rosette would have won the London mayoral election in 2016.
    Yes in 2016 I agree. I don't think a non-Muslim candidate can win in London now unless the Muslim opponent it's someone blatantly corrupt like the politicians we see from Tower Hamlets and outer London voters are annoyed enough to do something about it.
    Happy to offer you good odds on a non Muslim mayor being elected in the next decade in London. Any size you like.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478
    carnforth said:

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
    He's a man who repeatedly describes himself as a centrist. Have you read/listened to anything he's written/said?
    He wrote a book called "How to be a liberal". Not "How to be a centrist".
    Yes, and where are liberals generally placed in the political spectrum? Is it in the centre? Oh, yes, it is.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824
    There's clearly only one real centrist in the world - me.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824
    carnforth said:

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
    He's a man who repeatedly describes himself as a centrist. Have you read/listened to anything he's written/said?
    He wrote a book called "How to be a liberal". Not "How to be a centrist".
    Can one be a liberal centrist?

    Political labels are often useful shorthand, but they have their limitations.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,823
    edited December 10

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    That's actually really hard - I'd give most people a bit of a left or right lean from my viewpoint (which is, of course, dead centre :wink: )

    ETA:
    Dunt, clearly a bit left. I assumed bondegezou's comment was in jest!
  • MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,789
    edited December 10
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I think he's shit and live in London. He's there because of demographics and no other reason. Though even that might not be enough to save him next time.
    He's there because he was the Labour candidate, and the Conservatives were in power in Westminster.

    A one legged donkey wearing a red rosette would have won the London mayoral election in 2016.
    Yes in 2016 I agree. I don't think a non-Muslim candidate can win in London now unless the Muslim opponent it's someone blatantly corrupt like the politicians we see from Tower Hamlets and outer London voters are annoyed enough to do something about it.
    Interested in the maths here. London, Census 2021:

    Muslim 15%
    Christian 41%
    No religion 27%
    Hindu 5%
    Jewish 2%
    Sikh 2%

    Compared with cities like Birmingham, Bradford etc, London doesn't have a particularly large Muslim population (though compared to the rest of the country, it does).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
    He's a man who repeatedly describes himself as a centrist. Have you read/listened to anything he's written/said?
    He wrote a book called "How to be a liberal". Not "How to be a centrist".
    Can one be a liberal centrist?

    Political labels are often useful shorthand, but they have their limitations.
    You can read a discussion about that in "Centrism: The Story of an Idea", by Ian Dunt and Dorian Lynskey.
  • MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I think he's shit and live in London. He's there because of demographics and no other reason. Though even that might not be enough to save him next time.
    He's there because he was the Labour candidate, and the Conservatives were in power in Westminster.

    A one legged donkey wearing a red rosette would have won the London mayoral election in 2016.
    Yes in 2016 I agree. I don't think a non-Muslim candidate can win in London now unless the Muslim opponent it's someone blatantly corrupt like the politicians we see from Tower Hamlets and outer London voters are annoyed enough to do something about it.
    Hard to tell when the Conservative standard-bearers since then have been Shaun Bailey and Susan Hall. Neither of them came anywhere near 'semi-plausible candidate to run the nation's capital'. Indeed, Hall gives off very strong 'Middlesex, actually' vibes, which simply isn't going to work for the role she claimed she wanted.

    Someone with the right mix of executive skills and showmanship, plus a bit of evidence that they actually want the job, would be hard to beat. But it's really not easy to see who that someone is.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244

    carnforth said:

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
    He's a man who repeatedly describes himself as a centrist. Have you read/listened to anything he's written/said?
    He wrote a book called "How to be a liberal". Not "How to be a centrist".
    Yes, and where are liberals generally placed in the political spectrum? Is it in the centre? Oh, yes, it is.
    That's a tired old formula that suggests it all depends on economic issues. A guy who spends his time on bluesky retweeting James O'Brien and Jonathan Portes sounds more like a metropolitan liberal to me. Nothing wrong with that but I doubt many people across the UK would see him as someone in the middle.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,823
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    Tres said:

    Quite clear that all the people moaning about Khan dont actually live in London

    I think he's shit and live in London. He's there because of demographics and no other reason. Though even that might not be enough to save him next time.
    He's there because he was the Labour candidate, and the Conservatives were in power in Westminster.

    A one legged donkey wearing a red rosette would have won the London mayoral election in 2016.
    Yes in 2016 I agree. I don't think a non-Muslim candidate can win in London now unless the Muslim opponent it's someone blatantly corrupt like the politicians we see from Tower Hamlets and outer London voters are annoyed enough to do something about it.
    Happy to offer you good odds on a non Muslim mayor being elected in the next decade in London. Any size you like.
    Well, the current one is tiny, isn't he? So I'd probably bet on a bigger one.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,484

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    It's the latest bizarre insult among the extremely online right. I guess it includes my kids who wear them at school, as well as their teachers and dinner ladies.
  • MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    A Bad Person. A Very Bad Person.

    (I am Very Very Bad Person. Not only do I wear a lanyard, I tell students to wear theirs. Come the revolution, I'm due up against the wall in about week seven.)
  • glwglw Posts: 10,636

    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.

    I may not be unique but Trump does tend to attack ethnic minorities more, and in particular those who are women. He denigrates their appearance, intelligence, qualifications and so on, exactly the kind of thing you would expect from a racist misogynist. People shouldn't pretend "Trump's like that with everyone", he's not.

    So nobody should be making any excuses for Trump's attacks on Khan. Trump isn't attacking Khan's policies or record, he's attacking the person, and not because of who Khan is (a bland and uninteresting politician in most regards) but because of his ethnicity and religion.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    A Bad Person. A Very Bad Person.

    (I am Very Very Bad Person. Not only do I wear a lanyard, I tell students to wear theirs. Come the revolution, I'm due up against the wall in about week seven.)
    See you at the execution wall, comrade.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,325

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    It's the latest bizarre insult among the extremely online right. I guess it includes my kids who wear them at school, as well as their teachers and dinner ladies.
    Given how many people there are in the world, statistically there must be at least someone who likes their nudism with added lanyard.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050
    glw said:

    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.

    I may not be unique but Trump does tend to attack ethnic minorities more, and in particular those who are women. He denigrates their appearance, intelligence, qualifications and so on, exactly the kind of thing you would expect from a racist misogynist. People shouldn't pretend "Trump's like that with everyone", he's not.

    So nobody should be making any excuses for Trump's attacks on Khan. Trump isn't attacking Khan's policies or record, he's attacking the person, and not because of who Khan is (a bland and uninteresting politician in most regards) but because of his ethnicity and religion.
    I guess we all just imagined him calling Biden names for 4 years and the 7 GOP candidates in the run up 2016. Strange collective amnesia among PBers tonight.
  • kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
    He's a man who repeatedly describes himself as a centrist. Have you read/listened to anything he's written/said?
    He wrote a book called "How to be a liberal". Not "How to be a centrist".
    Can one be a liberal centrist?

    Political labels are often useful shorthand, but they have their limitations.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrism
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,634

    Marco Foster
    @MarcoFoster_
    ·
    2h
    James Carville on Donald Trump: “He’s done. We’ve just got to butter this toast and slice it and eat it. He’s done. It’s over. You’re a loser dude. You’re losing everywhere and you’re gonna lose more because you my friend are a loser.”

    https://x.com/MarcoFoster_/status/1998821761584935112

    Like a stuck record. He said Trump was in deep trouble in 2024.

    https://x.com/newrepublic/status/1828776816829411681?s=46
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    What is an Islamophobe exactly?

    I might meet the definition of phobia for quite a few religious denominations.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824

    Marco Foster
    @MarcoFoster_
    ·
    2h
    James Carville on Donald Trump: “He’s done. We’ve just got to butter this toast and slice it and eat it. He’s done. It’s over. You’re a loser dude. You’re losing everywhere and you’re gonna lose more because you my friend are a loser.”

    https://x.com/MarcoFoster_/status/1998821761584935112

    Like a stuck record. He said Trump was in deep trouble in 2024.

    https://x.com/newrepublic/status/1828776816829411681?s=46
    I don't even really know what Trump being a loser matters anymore. What, he might find some things harder to do if the GOP lose the midterms? The Supreme Court might not permit him to do absolutely anything? He won't get a third term?

    Small mercies, to those who dislike him.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 2,020

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    No. It’s not. I despise Khan. I think he’s useless and incompetent and a horrible mayor.

    But he’s not vicious or disgusting, words which speak to him as a person rather than his performance as an elected official
    He is incredibly bland.

    Central casting for the role of “London Mayor” with one line in the movie.

    Hating him is like hating a stack of printer paper.
    Well, I must admit, I find it difficult to think of anything (positive or negative) to say about Khan because he is (as you say) incredibly bland.

    I mean, what's he done? I can think of no big projects, no significant improvements to infrastucture that he can lay claim too. On the other hand, London has definitely improved since the post-Covid lows: in the last six months, the area around my apartment in Covent Garden has been cleaned up enornmously (which I appreciate it). But then again, it was under his watch in the previous five years that it got a lot worse.

    Not everything is his fault, of course. A lot of the problems with endemic petty crime are because of the cuts to the criminal justice system during the coalition years that we're all paying for.

    I'd rate him a 4/10. But I don't think the words "horrible", "vicious" or "disgusting" are in any way appropriate for what is -at heart- nothing more than unbridled mediocrity.
    Have forgotten the time Sadiq Khan forced out Cressida Dick?

    If I were editing PB that night I would have used the headline 'Sadiq Khan gets Dick out!'

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-60340525

    So that's a positive.
    1 Got rid of Cressida Dick
    2 pre-covid sorted out TfLs finances
    3 Pushed through ULEZ
    4 Kept fares down
    5 Free school meals

    In essence, he's about reducing pollution and cost of living. Low profile and competent.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    What is an Islamophobe exactly?

    I might meet the definition of phobia for quite a few religious denominations.
    People who insist on interpreting "Islamophobia" (or "homophobia") as having to be a phobia in the sense of, say, arachnophobia are like people saying that Arabs cannot be "anti-Semitic" because they are "Semites".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,310

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    Someone who works in a place where access security matters and doesn't work from home.

    Its now used as a sneer by snobs who don't have to work like real people do. A sort of modern version of "Don't you know who I am?"
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 12,063

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    No. It’s not. I despise Khan. I think he’s useless and incompetent and a horrible mayor.

    But he’s not vicious or disgusting, words which speak to him as a person rather than his performance as an elected official
    If you "despise" Sadiq Khan what word would you reach for to sum up your feelings about Donald Trump?
    I’m flying to the US next week so I might plead the 5th.

    (“Despise” may be a little strong but he’s redolent of a political class that is self interested, careerist and ineffective. We deserve better leaders. Unfortunately the voters don’t like people who tell them the truth.)
    Khan took a brave stance on clean air - the ULEZ extension was unpopular and he faced concerted opposition but he did it because he thought it was the right thing and it has worked - the air in London now meets international health standards. I can't think of another recent UK politician who has taken that kind of brave, non-populist stance. Call him what you want, but he is neither ineffective nor some kind of shallow careerist.
    One thing in, what, 10 years? And my taxes have gone up by the maximum he can each year, while the TfL service gets worse and their losses increase. He’s a useless bureaucrat
    What taxes has he raised?

    I assume you aren't talking about income tax a nd council tax
    The London precept on the council tax.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    If someone has genuinely campaigned for muslim candidates I'd find it hard to believe they have an antipathy for everyone of that faith.

    'I'm not X, I have X friends' is, to be sure, a cliched dodge, but it's also not impossible to be true.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
    Don't forget (but I think I'm right in saying) he doesn't believe the disproportionate attention devoted globally to the Israel Palestine conflict has anything to do with antisemitism.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050
    Eabhal said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    People in decent jobs paying high taxes on their earnings. They inhabit that part of society which is not minted enough to generate income from property, but also not desperate enough to consider voting Reform. For reasons that escape me, some people on the right think they are worthy of ridicule rather than their core voting demographic. Weird.
    No, the lanyard wearing class is different. They're the people who wear it outside of their workplace like a badge of honour. Self important busybodies, usually they have nothing jobs in the public sector or third sector actively hindering productivity.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
    Yes, jumping from Muslim to terrorist is really showing how you're not Islamophobic, Max. Keep it up.

    (The nearest I've been to a terrorist attack was being woken up in 1992 by the sound of a bomb exploding that had been set by Catholic terrorists.)
  • glwglw Posts: 10,636
    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.

    I may not be unique but Trump does tend to attack ethnic minorities more, and in particular those who are women. He denigrates their appearance, intelligence, qualifications and so on, exactly the kind of thing you would expect from a racist misogynist. People shouldn't pretend "Trump's like that with everyone", he's not.

    So nobody should be making any excuses for Trump's attacks on Khan. Trump isn't attacking Khan's policies or record, he's attacking the person, and not because of who Khan is (a bland and uninteresting politician in most regards) but because of his ethnicity and religion.
    I guess we all just imagined him calling Biden names for 4 years and the 7 GOP candidates in the run up 2016. Strange collective amnesia among PBers tonight.
    Nobody has forgotten that. It's just not the same. Trump's abuse is qualitatively different when directed at ethnic minorities and women. It's not just being rude to a political opponent, the racism and misogyny comes out as well.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,619
    kle4 said:

    carnforth said:

    A good way to test someone's politics is to ask them to name someone they think is a centrist commentator.

    If anyone disagrees with "Ian Dunt" as an answer, they are clearly divorced from reality.
    The funny thing is my guess is you probably actually believe that. A man who describes himself on bluesky as a liberal extremist.
    He's a man who repeatedly describes himself as a centrist. Have you read/listened to anything he's written/said?
    He wrote a book called "How to be a liberal". Not "How to be a centrist".
    Can one be a liberal centrist?

    Political labels are often useful shorthand, but they have their limitations.
    Most liberals are centrists but there are also some very right wing ones. The right wing ones that have gone off the rails are neoconservatives.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    What is an Islamophobe exactly?

    I might meet the definition of phobia for quite a few religious denominations.
    People who insist on interpreting "Islamophobia" (or "homophobia") as having to be a phobia in the sense of, say, arachnophobia are like people saying that Arabs cannot be "anti-Semitic" because they are "Semites".
    If it's silly to equate X-phobias with being like a phobia maybe we should come up with different labels for them.

    That's like when people said Defund the Police didn't have to mean literally defunding the police, which if so made it very silly as a slogan.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
    Don't forget (but I think I'm right in saying) he doesn't believe the disproportionate attention devoted globally to the Israel Palestine conflict has anything to do with antisemitism.
    Me? No, I think that part of the reason for the disproportionate attention devoted globally to the Israel/Palestine conflict is indeed antisemitism.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050
    glw said:

    MaxPB said:

    glw said:

    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.

    I may not be unique but Trump does tend to attack ethnic minorities more, and in particular those who are women. He denigrates their appearance, intelligence, qualifications and so on, exactly the kind of thing you would expect from a racist misogynist. People shouldn't pretend "Trump's like that with everyone", he's not.

    So nobody should be making any excuses for Trump's attacks on Khan. Trump isn't attacking Khan's policies or record, he's attacking the person, and not because of who Khan is (a bland and uninteresting politician in most regards) but because of his ethnicity and religion.
    I guess we all just imagined him calling Biden names for 4 years and the 7 GOP candidates in the run up 2016. Strange collective amnesia among PBers tonight.
    Nobody has forgotten that. It's just not the same. Trump's abuse is qualitatively different when directed at ethnic minorities and women. It's not just being rude to a political opponent, the racism and misogyny comes out as well.
    I don't see how you can know that. I think Trump is a generally awful and dislikeable person who will say anything about anyone who opposes him. Is Crooked Hillary any worse than Sleepy Joe or calling Ted Cruz the zodiac killer?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
    Don't forget (but I think I'm right in saying) he doesn't believe the disproportionate attention devoted globally to the Israel Palestine conflict has anything to do with antisemitism.
    Me? No, I think that part of the reason for the disproportionate attention devoted globally to the Israel/Palestine conflict is indeed antisemitism.
    Well I may be wrong but I seem to remember when you wrote a long 'explanation' for it you didn't actually mention antisemitism, something pretty central to the world's two biggest religions.
  • Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    Someone who works in a place where access security matters and doesn't work from home.

    Its now used as a sneer by snobs who don't have to work like real people do. A sort of modern version of "Don't you know who I am?"
    Not that the snobs have much time for WFH.

    The real irony is that many of the lanyard class would have been, until really quite recently, a core Conservative demographic. Partly because of doing the sort of jobs where security matters, but also the whole civil order thing. For various reasons, eroded to virtually nothing.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,823

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    It's the latest bizarre insult among the extremely online right. I guess it includes my kids who wear them at school, as well as their teachers and dinner ladies.
    Your kids have to wear lanyards?

    I hate the damn things* - I wore one in my first 'proper' job in civil service, then didn't need one as a student, then in subsequent jobs I've been issued with an access/ID card and lanyard, but have simply kept the card in my wallet (they're all RFID or similar) and opted not to wear it. No one has objected.

    *lanyards, not the people - it's aimed at civil service and academia, I guess, but they must be common in all kinds of office
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    Someone who works in a place where access security matters and doesn't work from home.

    Its now used as a sneer by snobs who don't have to work like real people do. A sort of modern version of "Don't you know who I am?"
    Not that the snobs have much time for WFH.

    The real irony is that many of the lanyard class would have been, until really quite recently, a core Conservative demographic. Partly because of doing the sort of jobs where security matters, but also the whole civil order thing. For various reasons, eroded to virtually nothing.
    It's funny to me how political parties can be very quick to totally abandon the idea of appealing to rather large demographics and groups (the young, the public sector, whatever), even when not too long ago they used to do well with them.

    Of course, the public can be similarly definitive - even accounting for potentially large shifts in an area, the sorts of places that would never now vote Tory/Labour, which have examples of doing just that, are quite stark at times.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 41,050

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
    Yes, jumping from Muslim to terrorist is really showing how you're not Islamophobic, Max. Keep it up.

    (The nearest I've been to a terrorist attack was being woken up in 1992 by the sound of a bomb exploding that had been set by Catholic terrorists.)
    And yet it was two of my family members that had life altering injuries in the terrorist attack in Nairobi by Islamic terrorists.

    Aren't you supposed to be a scientist? Isn't science pattern recognition. Are you so far gone that you've turned off your ability to see obvious patterns for fear of being seen as racist? I mean that's really what this boils down to. You don't want to be seen as racist, it's a common white liberal affliction. We've literally had CSE scandals across the country from that sentiment and yet here you are walking that same well trod path to failure.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,723
    It’s a shame the US is hosting both the WC and Summer Olympics .

    At a time with the most disgusting cesspit administration who lecture us about freedom of speech and then bring in new rules that if Europe replicated against the USA would be met with absolute furore there .

    We’ve reached almost North Korean levels of one must not insult the Dear Leader .

  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478
    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    What is an Islamophobe exactly?

    I might meet the definition of phobia for quite a few religious denominations.
    People who insist on interpreting "Islamophobia" (or "homophobia") as having to be a phobia in the sense of, say, arachnophobia are like people saying that Arabs cannot be "anti-Semitic" because they are "Semites".
    If it's silly to equate X-phobias with being like a phobia maybe we should come up with different labels for them.

    That's like when people said Defund the Police didn't have to mean literally defunding the police, which if so made it very silly as a slogan.
    Lots of words have silly etymologies. Don't become the person who starts tell using how "gay" used to mean "happy"...
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
    Yes, jumping from Muslim to terrorist is really showing how you're not Islamophobic, Max. Keep it up.

    (The nearest I've been to a terrorist attack was being woken up in 1992 by the sound of a bomb exploding that had been set by Catholic terrorists.)
    And yet it was two of my family members that had life altering injuries in the terrorist attack in Nairobi by Islamic terrorists.

    Aren't you supposed to be a scientist? Isn't science pattern recognition. Are you so far gone that you've turned off your ability to see obvious patterns for fear of being seen as racist? I mean that's really what this boils down to. You don't want to be seen as racist, it's a common white liberal affliction. We've literally had CSE scandals across the country from that sentiment and yet here you are walking that same well trod path to failure.
    I don't know about scientist but very much of the wet market hypothesis.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
    Don't forget (but I think I'm right in saying) he doesn't believe the disproportionate attention devoted globally to the Israel Palestine conflict has anything to do with antisemitism.
    Me? No, I think that part of the reason for the disproportionate attention devoted globally to the Israel/Palestine conflict is indeed antisemitism.
    Well I may be wrong but I seem to remember when you wrote a long 'explanation' for it you didn't actually mention antisemitism, something pretty central to the world's two biggest religions.
    So, I offer you a choice between my direct statement above, or your vague memory of some past conversation. Feel free to pick which one you would rather go with.
  • Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    It's the latest bizarre insult among the extremely online right. I guess it includes my kids who wear them at school, as well as their teachers and dinner ladies.
    Your kids have to wear lanyards?

    I hate the damn things* - I wore one in my first 'proper' job in civil service, then didn't need one as a student, then in subsequent jobs I've been issued with an access/ID card and lanyard, but have simply kept the card in my wallet (they're all RFID or similar) and opted not to wear it. No one has objected.

    *lanyards, not the people - it's aimed at civil service and academia, I guess, but they must be common in all kinds of office
    In places that don't have a school uniform, it's the least bad way of regulating at-a-glance who should and shouldn't be on-campus. That's most places post-16, and a small minority of schools lower down the age range.

    (Memories of a short story we had read to us at junior school. Kid arrives at a school for their first day, causes utter chaos... 'sorry, I didn't know, I've just moved here...' When the headmaster finally catches up with them at the end of the day, the punchline is 'yes, I've just moved here, and I start at my actual school next week'.)
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,723
    In other news the DE is still flying the flag for Brexit .

    With a headline that is hilarious as most think it’s a turd that should have been flushed away .

    The DE proclaims .

    “They Cannot Be Trusted With Brexit “.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824
    edited December 10

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    What is an Islamophobe exactly?

    I might meet the definition of phobia for quite a few religious denominations.
    People who insist on interpreting "Islamophobia" (or "homophobia") as having to be a phobia in the sense of, say, arachnophobia are like people saying that Arabs cannot be "anti-Semitic" because they are "Semites".
    If it's silly to equate X-phobias with being like a phobia maybe we should come up with different labels for them.

    That's like when people said Defund the Police didn't have to mean literally defunding the police, which if so made it very silly as a slogan.
    Lots of words have silly etymologies. Don't become the person who starts tell using how "gay" used to mean "happy"...
    I won't, but I think the comparison is silly. Phobia has a more technical meaning that is still in general usage, and it is not absurd for people to object to it being applied to broader, and more general, expressions of hatred. Indeed, I think it is an unhelpful term, since phobia implies a fear or anxiety that may have nothing to do with one's hatred of muslims, jews, gay people, transexuals, or other groups, suggesting an excuse for it (illegitimate though it may be).

    I'm not sure what might be the best replacement, but I am sure phobia is presently a poor label, and not one which has lost its initial meaning.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
    Yes, jumping from Muslim to terrorist is really showing how you're not Islamophobic, Max. Keep it up.

    (The nearest I've been to a terrorist attack was being woken up in 1992 by the sound of a bomb exploding that had been set by Catholic terrorists.)
    And yet it was two of my family members that had life altering injuries in the terrorist attack in Nairobi by Islamic terrorists.

    Aren't you supposed to be a scientist? Isn't science pattern recognition. Are you so far gone that you've turned off your ability to see obvious patterns for fear of being seen as racist? I mean that's really what this boils down to. You don't want to be seen as racist, it's a common white liberal affliction. We've literally had CSE scandals across the country from that sentiment and yet here you are walking that same well trod path to failure.
    I am sorry to hear of your family members' injuries.

    The rest of your comments speak for themselves.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,955
    edited December 10

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    It's the latest bizarre insult among the extremely online right. I guess it includes my kids who wear them at school, as well as their teachers and dinner ladies.
    Your kids have to wear lanyards?

    I hate the damn things* - I wore one in my first 'proper' job in civil service, then didn't need one as a student, then in subsequent jobs I've been issued with an access/ID card and lanyard, but have simply kept the card in my wallet (they're all RFID or similar) and opted not to wear it. No one has objected.

    *lanyards, not the people - it's aimed at civil service and academia, I guess, but they must be common in all kinds of office
    Yeah, they have different coloured ribbons so the teachers know what year they're in. I don't think the kids mind wearing them, they don't realise they might be mistaken for third sector busybody productivity wreckers by angry rightwingers. The innocence of youth!
    Can go too far:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cdrdxzx2e1jo
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,824
    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    It's the latest bizarre insult among the extremely online right. I guess it includes my kids who wear them at school, as well as their teachers and dinner ladies.
    Your kids have to wear lanyards?
    How else does one keep track of, I presume, their own children? You pass out labels for child 1, child 2, child 3, and so on.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,310
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    Someone who works in a place where access security matters and doesn't work from home.

    Its now used as a sneer by snobs who don't have to work like real people do. A sort of modern version of "Don't you know who I am?"
    Not that the snobs have much time for WFH.

    The real irony is that many of the lanyard class would have been, until really quite recently, a core Conservative demographic. Partly because of doing the sort of jobs where security matters, but also the whole civil order thing. For various reasons, eroded to virtually nothing.
    It's funny to me how political parties can be very quick to totally abandon the idea of appealing to rather large demographics and groups (the young, the public sector, whatever), even when not too long ago they used to do well with them.

    Of course, the public can be similarly definitive - even accounting for potentially large shifts in an area, the sorts of places that would never now vote Tory/Labour, which have examples of doing just that, are quite stark at times.
    At one time people of working age in white collar jobs were a natural Tory demographic in both public and private sectors. Those days are long gone. Blue collar workers are increasingly Reform, but the only natural Tory vote is now the retired homeowner. An important demographic electorally, but one that shrinks by about 200 000 per year.

    Where are the new Tory voters to come from? It isn't obvious.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,244

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    Lol, I genuinely think you need help. You're so liberal to the point that when the nice Islamic terrorist decides to behead you that you'll be pleased that you weren't "islamophobic".
    Don't forget (but I think I'm right in saying) he doesn't believe the disproportionate attention devoted globally to the Israel Palestine conflict has anything to do with antisemitism.
    Me? No, I think that part of the reason for the disproportionate attention devoted globally to the Israel/Palestine conflict is indeed antisemitism.
    Well I may be wrong but I seem to remember when you wrote a long 'explanation' for it you didn't actually mention antisemitism, something pretty central to the world's two biggest religions.
    So, I offer you a choice between my direct statement above, or your vague memory of some past conversation. Feel free to pick which one you would rather go with.
    I'll trust my memory thanks. And the real test is whether you would have mentioned antisemitism unprompted. I suspect not.
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    What is an Islamophobe exactly?

    I might meet the definition of phobia for quite a few religious denominations.
    People who insist on interpreting "Islamophobia" (or "homophobia") as having to be a phobia in the sense of, say, arachnophobia are like people saying that Arabs cannot be "anti-Semitic" because they are "Semites".
    If it's silly to equate X-phobias with being like a phobia maybe we should come up with different labels for them.

    That's like when people said Defund the Police didn't have to mean literally defunding the police, which if so made it very silly as a slogan.
    Lots of words have silly etymologies. Don't become the person who starts tell using how "gay" used to mean "happy"...
    And yet that over-literalism is precisely what you are doing in insisting that lanyard wearing class means anyone who has to wear a lanyard for work, as opposed to a more specific meaning eg those who choose to wear eg rainbow etc lanyards out of choice to signify messages.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,478
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    What is an Islamophobe exactly?

    I might meet the definition of phobia for quite a few religious denominations.
    People who insist on interpreting "Islamophobia" (or "homophobia") as having to be a phobia in the sense of, say, arachnophobia are like people saying that Arabs cannot be "anti-Semitic" because they are "Semites".
    If it's silly to equate X-phobias with being like a phobia maybe we should come up with different labels for them.

    That's like when people said Defund the Police didn't have to mean literally defunding the police, which if so made it very silly as a slogan.
    Lots of words have silly etymologies. Don't become the person who starts tell using how "gay" used to mean "happy"...
    I won't, but I think the comparison is silly. Phobia has a more technical meaning that is still in general usage, and it is not absurd for people to object to it being applied to broader, and more general, expressions of hatred. Indeed, I think it is an unhelpful term, since phobia implies a fear or anxiety that may have nothing to do with one's hatred of muslims, jews, gay people, transexuals, or other groups, suggesting an excuse for it (illegitimate though it may be).

    I'm not sure what might be the best replacement, but I am sure phobia is presently a poor label, and not one which has lost its initial meaning.
    It's a silly etymology, yes, but that battle has been lost and we are where we are.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,823

    Selebian said:

    MaxPB said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    What point are you trying to make here? "Trump is a racist, but let's give him the benefit of the doubt: maybe this particular case of name-calling directed at a brown Muslim is just pettiness." Really?
    No, I have absolutely no benefit of the doubt for Trump.

    But equally he is pathetic enough that name-calling is par for the course for him. If he were only name-calling against minorities then yes that would be [another] example of racism, but when he goes for stupid and OTT names for everyone he dislikes regardless of race, then no it isn't.
    I guess Crooked Hillary and Sleepy Joe were actually black lesbian transgenders in the lanyard wearing world.
    What is a lanyard wearer?
    It's the latest bizarre insult among the extremely online right. I guess it includes my kids who wear them at school, as well as their teachers and dinner ladies.
    Your kids have to wear lanyards?

    I hate the damn things* - I wore one in my first 'proper' job in civil service, then didn't need one as a student, then in subsequent jobs I've been issued with an access/ID card and lanyard, but have simply kept the card in my wallet (they're all RFID or similar) and opted not to wear it. No one has objected.

    *lanyards, not the people - it's aimed at civil service and academia, I guess, but they must be common in all kinds of office
    In places that don't have a school uniform, it's the least bad way of regulating at-a-glance who should and shouldn't be on-campus. That's most places post-16, and a small minority of schools lower down the age range.

    (Memories of a short story we had read to us at junior school. Kid arrives at a school for their first day, causes utter chaos... 'sorry, I didn't know, I've just moved here...' When the headmaster finally catches up with them at the end of the day, the punchline is 'yes, I've just moved here, and I start at my actual school next week'.)
    Ah, well if they get to trade the tie for a lanyard, then sign me up!
  • kle4 said:

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    About those Epstein files.

    President Trump, "In my opinion many European countries will not be viable countries any longer"

    "If you take a look at Paris, it's a much different place to what it was"

    "If you take a look at London, you have a Mayor named Khan, he's a horrible mayor. An incompetent mayor. But he's a horrible vicious disgusting mayor"

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1998493091230257357

    Arguably true....
    In which case can you give three examples where Sadiq has been vicious? As opposed to from a different political party.....
    Anyone attacking Khan in such terms is simply outing themselves as a racist.

    I live and work in London, and the main negative adjective I would use for him is being invisible. Not really doing anything of note. Which is obviously much better than a Mayor doing lots of harm, and not as good as a Mayor who delivers lots of positive initiatives.

    People like Trump using overly strong adjectives about Khan are saying more about themselves than him.
    Oh maaaaaaaate

    Criticising Sadiq Khan - racism 😂
    Come on, Taz, that's not what he said. It's calling Khan "vicious" and other "overly strong adjectives" that's racist.
    Pretty sure his predecessor was called comparable names though.

    Is it racism, or just petty and stupid political name-calling?

    If it were only him being called names, then yes it would be, but his predecessor was called stuff life that too and so have many other politicians. Most famous politicians get called all sorts, and much of it not very polite.
    Is it political name-calling or racism? Well, it was Trump, someone who has been obviously racist for decades, and has said multiple clearly explicitly racist comments in the last few weeks, so I'm guessing the latter.
    Trump is racist, I agree, but he also is pathetically petty and calls anyone and everyone by stupid names.

    Name-calling by Trump is hardly unique to minorities.
    It's funny, I'd never normally vote for Khan.

    But Trump's wildly over the top criticism suddenly makes me think quite kindly of him. If Trump hates him that much, he can't be all bad.
    I feel like none of Khan's opponents have ever really had a handle on how to attack him. I don't live in London so I'd have no advice on what might resonate with the voters best, but IIRC at least twice the Tories have tried to paint him as an extremist, and it clearly hasn't been very persuasive.
    The only way to win will be to draw Muslim voters away from Khan. That's his inbuilt demographic advantage, Jews and Hindus are far outnumbered by Muslims in London and any candidate that beats Khan next time if he runs will be Muslim.

    I also think directly elected executive politicians should have term limits.
    There are more atheists and more Christians in London than there are Muslims, which rather undermines your theory. We know you hate Muslims, but loving or hating Muslims is not the main determinant of how most people in London vote.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I don't hate Muslims. I have a severe dislike of Islam, I think it is a barbaric religion that oppresses women and minorities wherever it exists as a majority. I know and like plenty of Muslim people and I went out and campaigned for plenty of Muslim Tory candidates across London and supported Sajid Javid as candidate for the leadership.
    "I'm not an Islamophobe, I've got Muslim friends," appears to be the gist of your answer.
    What is an Islamophobe exactly?

    I might meet the definition of phobia for quite a few religious denominations.
    People who insist on interpreting "Islamophobia" (or "homophobia") as having to be a phobia in the sense of, say, arachnophobia are like people saying that Arabs cannot be "anti-Semitic" because they are "Semites".
    If it's silly to equate X-phobias with being like a phobia maybe we should come up with different labels for them.

    That's like when people said Defund the Police didn't have to mean literally defunding the police, which if so made it very silly as a slogan.
    Lots of words have silly etymologies. Don't become the person who starts tell using how "gay" used to mean "happy"...
    And yet that over-literalism is precisely what you are doing in insisting that lanyard wearing class means anyone who has to wear a lanyard for work, as opposed to a more specific meaning eg those who choose to wear eg rainbow etc lanyards out of choice to signify messages.
    If an insult needs glossing like that, it's a bad insult. Especially if you are an electoral politician and it causes people who might give you half the time of day to think that you hate them on general principles.
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