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  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,420
    Edged, chopped on...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,420
    Aus fail to review an Out lol
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,682
    Oh dear. In a meeting for 20 minutes and we lost two wickets already.

    Surely not another two-day Test coming up?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,420
    Hold on, feels like I'm at the Tour De France....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,420
    The sound balance is off (Crowd background volume lower) on TNT compared to Fox
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,682
    Phew, they got to “Tea” with only the two losses. Perhaps England have a chance here after all?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,116

    Trump doubles down on Minnesota and Somalia.

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1996333935245111625

    Just racism.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,116
    Sandpit said:

    Oh dear. In a meeting for 20 minutes and we lost two wickets already.

    Surely not another two-day Test coming up?

    Can you stay out of meetings for the rest of the week ?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,981
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    The Minnesota governorship looking pretty safe now, too.

    News - MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell to run for Minnesota governor
    https://x.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1996289202678620297

    They tried that before with Dr Oz, and it didn’t work out.

    If the GOP wants to go hard on Tim Walz over the Somali corruption scandal, they need someone a little more serious than a pillow salesman doing it.
    Why?
    They’ve got a sexual assaulter of women, pal of Epstein and multiple bankrupt to the highest position in the land twice (three times if you believe Epstein’s bestie). This should be a piece of cake.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,285

    England won the toss and will bat

    All out by lunch....

    It's a day/night test. They don't take lunch...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,285
    There's something wrong with my Cricinfo feed. It's showing Crawley as not out.
  • SonofContrarianSonofContrarian Posts: 240
    Yes, just woke up..and Crawley is amazingly still there..😏 But then gets out to a nothing ball..😒
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,535
    ydoethur said:

    There's something wrong with my Cricinfo feed. It's showing Crawley as not out.

    Thank you so much for that.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,206
    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,887
    ydoethur said:

    There's something wrong with my Cricinfo feed. It's showing Crawley as not out.

    Now look what you've done.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,682
    ydoethur said:

    There's something wrong with my Cricinfo feed. It's showing Crawley as not out.

    You need to stay off Cricinfo for the next five days!
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,395

    Starmer to delay new Mayoral elections for 2 years

    Has he been talking to Trump

    What's his excuse this time? For somebody who used to bang on about local democracy he doesn't seem very keen on it these days.
    It is extraordinary.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,395
    carnforth said:

    Do you want to nationalise Greggs Zarah?

    She wasn't clear.




    Wokerati Marty
    @WokeratiMarty
    A clip from the New Statesman’s review of last weekends Your Party conference.
    https://x.com/WokeratiMarty/status/1996291743310868922

    It's not Greggs, it's Ours!
    Your Pasty.

    *I realise it's more sausage rolls, but that didn't work.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,059
    Live facial recognition cameras planned for every town centre
    Labour proposals would allow police to compare photos of crime suspects against images of 45 million Britons in the passport database

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/12/04/live-facial-recognition-cameras-planned-for-every-town-cent/ (£££)

    The Telegraph's front page lead. Older PBers will remember the trial rollout in August, which is technically not all that long ago. Still, David Lammy said he wants to speed up trials.

    And it's not just the police: Other public bodies, beyond police, and private companies, such as retailers, could be allowed to use facial recognition technology under the new legal framework. But I expect there will be safeguards to stop it being misused to find runaways from domestic or sexual violence.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,193
    Saw this.

    🇧🇪 Belgian PM Bart De Wever told La Libre that Russia “will not lose” in Ukraine and called claims of its defeat “a fairy tale and total illusion.” He warned that Russian assets must be returned post-war and said Moscow threatened Belgium with “eternal retaliation” if confiscated.

    If ever there was a self-fulfilling prophecy it was the belief that Russia was invincible. This does not sound like someone willing to agree to the confiscation of Russian assets.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,116
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    Voice of reason from Foxy again.

    I know a few of my kids' generation with depression and/or anxiety - and who are in work.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,116

    Saw this.

    🇧🇪 Belgian PM Bart De Wever told La Libre that Russia “will not lose” in Ukraine and called claims of its defeat “a fairy tale and total illusion.” He warned that Russian assets must be returned post-war and said Moscow threatened Belgium with “eternal retaliation” if confiscated.

    If ever there was a self-fulfilling prophecy it was the belief that Russia was invincible. This does not sound like someone willing to agree to the confiscation of Russian assets.

    Belgium has done very well out of holding the bulk of the frozen assets, which might also not be unconnected with their reluctance to pass them on to Ukraine.

    That said, there does need to be a pan-European guarantee against future Russian retaliation, which has not so far been provided.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,682

    Live facial recognition cameras planned for every town centre
    Labour proposals would allow police to compare photos of crime suspects against images of 45 million Britons in the passport database

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/12/04/live-facial-recognition-cameras-planned-for-every-town-cent/ (£££)

    The Telegraph's front page lead. Older PBers will remember the trial rollout in August, which is technically not all that long ago. Still, David Lammy said he wants to speed up trials.

    And it's not just the police: Other public bodies, beyond police, and private companies, such as retailers, could be allowed to use facial recognition technology under the new legal framework. But I expect there will be safeguards to stop it being misused to find runaways from domestic or sexual violence.

    End of jury trials, digital services act, facial recognition, postponement of elections, “assisted” dying, 40-week abortions…

    Is UK turning slowly into China?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,251
    Sandpit said:

    Live facial recognition cameras planned for every town centre
    Labour proposals would allow police to compare photos of crime suspects against images of 45 million Britons in the passport database

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/12/04/live-facial-recognition-cameras-planned-for-every-town-cent/ (£££)

    The Telegraph's front page lead. Older PBers will remember the trial rollout in August, which is technically not all that long ago. Still, David Lammy said he wants to speed up trials.

    And it's not just the police: Other public bodies, beyond police, and private companies, such as retailers, could be allowed to use facial recognition technology under the new legal framework. But I expect there will be safeguards to stop it being misused to find runaways from domestic or sexual violence.

    End of jury trials, digital services act, facial recognition, postponement of elections, “assisted” dying, 40-week abortions…

    Is UK turning slowly into China?
    Is it slow? Starmer only became PM last year.

    And there was a line on the BBC news channel that Number 10 was claiming the Chinese embassy could 'improve' security.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,116
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    Voice of reason from Foxy again.

    I know a few of my kids' generation with depression and/or anxiety - and who are in work.
    The quote appears to be "over-pathologised".

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar
    ..He has asked leading experts to investigate whether normal feelings have become “over-pathologised”, the newspaper said, as he seeks to grapple with the 4.4 million working-age people now claiming sickness or incapacity benefit.

    The figure has risen by 1.2 million since 2019, while the number of 16 to 34-year-olds off work with long-term sickness because of a mental health condition is said to have grown rapidly in the same period.

    Streeting told the Times he knew from “personal experience how devastating it can be for people who face poor mental health, have ADHD or autism and can’t get a diagnosis or the right support”.

    He added: “I also know, from speaking to clinicians, how the diagnosis of these conditions is sharply rising.

    “We must look at this through a strictly clinical lens to get an evidence-based understanding of what we know, what we don’t know, and what these patterns tell us about our mental health system, autism and ADHD services..

    The review, which is expected to be launched on Thursday, is set to be led by Prof Peter Fonagy, a clinical psychologist at University College London specialising in child mental health, with Sir Simon Wessely, a former president of the Royal College of Psychiatry, acting as vice-chair.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,056
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    I have a theory that societal expectation (aka do /die) caused a lot of people to repress issues and “get on with it” to survive, in the Goode Olde Days.

    Thoughts?
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,952

    CatMan said:

    CatMan said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Dopermean said:

    isam said:

    EXC - I've seen a leaked policy document from Labour in opposition which sets out how to approach assisted dying.

    The document sets out how it could be introduced as a private member’s bill, suggesting that would still allow “heavy influence” for the government in the process


    https://x.com/jessicaelgot/status/1996237497626456337?s=20

    https://t.co/lZR8lCnCZz

    That's not news is it and it's a matter of conscience not party political.
    Some people want to die with dignity rather than in pain.
    A friend's parent recently passed with metastatic cancer that had spread to the spine, they were in constant pain at the end and wanted to pass several weeks before they did.
    My parent has late stage Alzheimer's, they had clearly expressed a wish not to exist as they do now, physically they're in good health so it could be years of cognitive decline, this bill wouldn't help them, but it might help some people.
    It's not going to be compulsory FFS, it'll give a small number of people a choice.
    Every single medical group, the disabled groups, those who know about coercion, coroners etc - everyone with any expertise in the care of the very sick etc.,has said this Bill is unsafe and will lead to the forced deaths of the vulnerable.


    Citation needed

    Why ?
    "Every"?
    To be fair I would take @Cyclefree word on this
    I would not.

    No disrespect, nor just because I disagree with her, but because she is not remotely on this matter a dispassionate observer.

    She cares passionately and believes what she says, which is not a bad thing at all, but clouds judgment.
    I understand what the Bill actually says a great deal better than you. I have read it and have followed the debates in the Commons and the Lords and the evidence given. You - judging by your comments - clearly have not,

    Starmer and Kinnock have lied to Parliament about this Bill. So has Leadbetter. Falconer has also lied. I can - if you don't believe me x list out for you every lie. But nothing will change your mind because you think "I want I get" is the only principle that matters. And any lie is justified to achieve that.

    My judgment in its safety is shared by pretty much every group which has given evidence.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,251
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    Voice of reason from Foxy again.

    I know a few of my kids' generation with depression and/or anxiety - and who are in work.
    The quote appears to be "over-pathologised".

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar
    ..He has asked leading experts to investigate whether normal feelings have become “over-pathologised”, the newspaper said, as he seeks to grapple with the 4.4 million working-age people now claiming sickness or incapacity benefit.

    The figure has risen by 1.2 million since 2019, while the number of 16 to 34-year-olds off work with long-term sickness because of a mental health condition is said to have grown rapidly in the same period.

    Streeting told the Times he knew from “personal experience how devastating it can be for people who face poor mental health, have ADHD or autism and can’t get a diagnosis or the right support”.

    He added: “I also know, from speaking to clinicians, how the diagnosis of these conditions is sharply rising.

    “We must look at this through a strictly clinical lens to get an evidence-based understanding of what we know, what we don’t know, and what these patterns tell us about our mental health system, autism and ADHD services..

    The review, which is expected to be launched on Thursday, is set to be led by Prof Peter Fonagy, a clinical psychologist at University College London specialising in child mental health, with Sir Simon Wessely, a former president of the Royal College of Psychiatry, acting as vice-chair.
    To be fair to Streeting, over-pathologising was known about when I was at university (decades ago, at this point). Anorexia and bulimia had recently-ish been joined by binge eating disorder. There's a risk of simply pathologising either personality quirks or personal failings and attributing them to a psychological disorder instead.

    I have no idea if that's a contributing factor to rising ADHD/autism spectrum diagnoses, incidentally. A problem with over-pathologising, leaving aside limited NHS resources, is that it removes or reduces agency and responsibility from individuals to change on their own.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,952

    Sandpit said:

    Live facial recognition cameras planned for every town centre
    Labour proposals would allow police to compare photos of crime suspects against images of 45 million Britons in the passport database

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/12/04/live-facial-recognition-cameras-planned-for-every-town-cent/ (£££)

    The Telegraph's front page lead. Older PBers will remember the trial rollout in August, which is technically not all that long ago. Still, David Lammy said he wants to speed up trials.

    And it's not just the police: Other public bodies, beyond police, and private companies, such as retailers, could be allowed to use facial recognition technology under the new legal framework. But I expect there will be safeguards to stop it being misused to find runaways from domestic or sexual violence.

    End of jury trials, digital services act, facial recognition, postponement of elections, “assisted” dying, 40-week abortions…

    Is UK turning slowly into China?
    Is it slow? Starmer only became PM last year.

    And there was a line on the BBC news channel that Number 10 was claiming the Chinese embassy could 'improve' security.

    Good morning, everyone.
    That Ming Vase was not empty. It was a hideous Pandora's box.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,251

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    I have a theory that societal expectation (aka do /die) caused a lot of people to repress issues and “get on with it” to survive, in the Goode Olde Days.

    Thoughts?
    Social/cultural settings have a huge impact on behaviour, and psychology. Anorexia is far less prevalent, or was, in non-Western nations. In Japan, there's some sort of disorder from having yin/yang out of balance (I forget the details, it was quite some time ago I heard about it).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,193
    Nigelb said:

    Saw this.

    🇧🇪 Belgian PM Bart De Wever told La Libre that Russia “will not lose” in Ukraine and called claims of its defeat “a fairy tale and total illusion.” He warned that Russian assets must be returned post-war and said Moscow threatened Belgium with “eternal retaliation” if confiscated.

    If ever there was a self-fulfilling prophecy it was the belief that Russia was invincible. This does not sound like someone willing to agree to the confiscation of Russian assets.

    Belgium has done very well out of holding the bulk of the frozen assets, which might also not be unconnected with their reluctance to pass them on to Ukraine.

    That said, there does need to be a pan-European guarantee against future Russian retaliation, which has not so far been provided.
    I agree that as it would be a collective decision to seize the assets then the consequences should be borne collectively.

    However, the Belgian PM, in seeking to justify their opposition, has driven themselves to an extreme position of believing in Russian invincibility. It seems to be another example of starting with a conclusion - i.e. not confiscating the assets - and then coming up with more and more reasons for that position when under pressure from others.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,395
    ..

    Sandpit said:

    Live facial recognition cameras planned for every town centre
    Labour proposals would allow police to compare photos of crime suspects against images of 45 million Britons in the passport database

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/12/04/live-facial-recognition-cameras-planned-for-every-town-cent/ (£££)

    The Telegraph's front page lead. Older PBers will remember the trial rollout in August, which is technically not all that long ago. Still, David Lammy said he wants to speed up trials.

    And it's not just the police: Other public bodies, beyond police, and private companies, such as retailers, could be allowed to use facial recognition technology under the new legal framework. But I expect there will be safeguards to stop it being misused to find runaways from domestic or sexual violence.

    End of jury trials, digital services act, facial recognition, postponement of elections, “assisted” dying, 40-week abortions…

    Is UK turning slowly into China?
    Is it slow? Starmer only became PM last year.

    And there was a line on the BBC news channel that Number 10 was claiming the Chinese embassy could 'improve' security.

    Good morning, everyone.
    This Government appears to have quite a sinister agenda underneath its veneer of utter incompetence.

    People do need to think very carefully before voting Labour. You can have Governments who you approve of or disapprove of, but this direction of travel completely changes the relationship between citizens and the State.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,887
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Starmer to delay new Mayoral elections for 2 years

    Has he been talking to Trump

    Some of the areas requiring reorganisations will take more time that their rather ambitious timetable would allow for. But there are other areas which are pretty ready to go, so I'm a little surprised it'd all be delayed.
    In Hampshire they are only now consulting on the new council boundaries, before which no work can be done on council size, ward boundaries, etc. There is no way that elections to these councils can take place next year - it was always inevitable that those areas faced with reorganisation would see a further postponement to 2027. The surprise in this story - if the papers the Indy has “seen” are accurate - is the further delay to 2028.
    Whilst central government bears the ultimate responsibility, a lot of councils have slowed this step of the process by putting forward maps that have no chance of meeting the size criteria set by the government.

    For example Huntingdonshire (pop 180k) is still pushing the "we really really want to be a unitary because we were a county in the past" thing. And Gosport (80k, joining Greater Portsmouth because that's the only thing that makes sense) is having nothing to do with the process because it's so unfair.

    As I've said before, the map of districts could have been sorted in a morning by locking all the council leaders in a room and telling them they could have lunch once they had agreed the maps. Perhaps give them a copy of the Redcliffe-Maud report for inspiration.

    Central government wussed out of that, and this is the consequence.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,116
    In the latest Ajax news, a General Dynamics Land Systems (they are responsible for the misbeggoten program) manager is blaming/mocking the British army crews for the injuries it has caused them.
    https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1996272940610879566
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,395
    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Live facial recognition cameras planned for every town centre
    Labour proposals would allow police to compare photos of crime suspects against images of 45 million Britons in the passport database

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/12/04/live-facial-recognition-cameras-planned-for-every-town-cent/ (£££)

    The Telegraph's front page lead. Older PBers will remember the trial rollout in August, which is technically not all that long ago. Still, David Lammy said he wants to speed up trials.

    And it's not just the police: Other public bodies, beyond police, and private companies, such as retailers, could be allowed to use facial recognition technology under the new legal framework. But I expect there will be safeguards to stop it being misused to find runaways from domestic or sexual violence.

    End of jury trials, digital services act, facial recognition, postponement of elections, “assisted” dying, 40-week abortions…

    Is UK turning slowly into China?
    Is it slow? Starmer only became PM last year.

    And there was a line on the BBC news channel that Number 10 was claiming the Chinese embassy could 'improve' security.

    Good morning, everyone.
    That Ming Vase was not empty. It was a hideous Pandora's box.
    It appears the reason they didn't reveal their actual plans was because they knew that nobody would ever vote for them.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,206
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    Voice of reason from Foxy again.

    I know a few of my kids' generation with depression and/or anxiety - and who are in work.
    The quote appears to be "over-pathologised".

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar
    ..He has asked leading experts to investigate whether normal feelings have become “over-pathologised”, the newspaper said, as he seeks to grapple with the 4.4 million working-age people now claiming sickness or incapacity benefit.

    The figure has risen by 1.2 million since 2019, while the number of 16 to 34-year-olds off work with long-term sickness because of a mental health condition is said to have grown rapidly in the same period.

    Streeting told the Times he knew from “personal experience how devastating it can be for people who face poor mental health, have ADHD or autism and can’t get a diagnosis or the right support”.

    He added: “I also know, from speaking to clinicians, how the diagnosis of these conditions is sharply rising.

    “We must look at this through a strictly clinical lens to get an evidence-based understanding of what we know, what we don’t know, and what these patterns tell us about our mental health system, autism and ADHD services..

    The review, which is expected to be launched on Thursday, is set to be led by Prof Peter Fonagy, a clinical psychologist at University College London specialising in child mental health, with Sir Simon Wessely, a former president of the Royal College of Psychiatry, acting as vice-chair.
    I do have my doubts about some of the medicalisation of human variety. While diagnostic labels can be useful they can also be obstacles and excuses.

    So a diagnosis of ADHD can open doors to treatment, but also become an excuse not to do things. The more positive approach is "I have ADHD so need to have fewer distractions at work (for example not in an open plan office)".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,116
    edited 7:47AM

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    Voice of reason from Foxy again.

    I know a few of my kids' generation with depression and/or anxiety - and who are in work.
    The quote appears to be "over-pathologised".

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar
    ..He has asked leading experts to investigate whether normal feelings have become “over-pathologised”, the newspaper said, as he seeks to grapple with the 4.4 million working-age people now claiming sickness or incapacity benefit.

    The figure has risen by 1.2 million since 2019, while the number of 16 to 34-year-olds off work with long-term sickness because of a mental health condition is said to have grown rapidly in the same period.

    Streeting told the Times he knew from “personal experience how devastating it can be for people who face poor mental health, have ADHD or autism and can’t get a diagnosis or the right support”.

    He added: “I also know, from speaking to clinicians, how the diagnosis of these conditions is sharply rising.

    “We must look at this through a strictly clinical lens to get an evidence-based understanding of what we know, what we don’t know, and what these patterns tell us about our mental health system, autism and ADHD services..

    The review, which is expected to be launched on Thursday, is set to be led by Prof Peter Fonagy, a clinical psychologist at University College London specialising in child mental health, with Sir Simon Wessely, a former president of the Royal College of Psychiatry, acting as vice-chair.
    To be fair to Streeting, over-pathologising was known about when I was at university (decades ago, at this point). Anorexia and bulimia had recently-ish been joined by binge eating disorder. There's a risk of simply pathologising either personality quirks or personal failings and attributing them to a psychological disorder instead.

    I have no idea if that's a contributing factor to rising ADHD/autism spectrum diagnoses, incidentally. A problem with over-pathologising, leaving aside limited NHS resources, is that it removes or reduces agency and responsibility from individuals to change on their own.
    Much depends on how it is conducted, and what use is made of any findings, but it seems pretty reasonable to commission a review into what's a growing issue, rather than jump to a conclusion one way or the other.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,682

    Sandpit said:

    Live facial recognition cameras planned for every town centre
    Labour proposals would allow police to compare photos of crime suspects against images of 45 million Britons in the passport database

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/12/04/live-facial-recognition-cameras-planned-for-every-town-cent/ (£££)

    The Telegraph's front page lead. Older PBers will remember the trial rollout in August, which is technically not all that long ago. Still, David Lammy said he wants to speed up trials.

    And it's not just the police: Other public bodies, beyond police, and private companies, such as retailers, could be allowed to use facial recognition technology under the new legal framework. But I expect there will be safeguards to stop it being misused to find runaways from domestic or sexual violence.

    End of jury trials, digital services act, facial recognition, postponement of elections, “assisted” dying, 40-week abortions…

    Is UK turning slowly into China?
    Is it slow? Starmer only became PM last year.

    And there was a line on the BBC news channel that Number 10 was claiming the Chinese embassy could 'improve' security.

    Good morning, everyone.
    The Chinese Embassy will indeed improve security - for the Chinese.

    It’s not difficult to see it’s going to be a massive spook factory, that will be spying on the UK and policing Chinese citizens living and working in the UK.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,477
    edited 7:52AM
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    Voice of reason from Foxy again.

    I know a few of my kids' generation with depression and/or anxiety - and who are in work.
    The quote appears to be "over-pathologised".

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar
    ..He has asked leading experts to investigate whether normal feelings have become “over-pathologised”, the newspaper said, as he seeks to grapple with the 4.4 million working-age people now claiming sickness or incapacity benefit.

    The figure has risen by 1.2 million since 2019, while the number of 16 to 34-year-olds off work with long-term sickness because of a mental health condition is said to have grown rapidly in the same period.

    Streeting told the Times he knew from “personal experience how devastating it can be for people who face poor mental health, have ADHD or autism and can’t get a diagnosis or the right support”.

    He added: “I also know, from speaking to clinicians, how the diagnosis of these conditions is sharply rising.

    “We must look at this through a strictly clinical lens to get an evidence-based understanding of what we know, what we don’t know, and what these patterns tell us about our mental health system, autism and ADHD services..

    The review, which is expected to be launched on Thursday, is set to be led by Prof Peter Fonagy, a clinical psychologist at University College London specialising in child mental health, with Sir Simon Wessely, a former president of the Royal College of Psychiatry, acting as vice-chair.
    I do have my doubts about some of the medicalisation of human variety. While diagnostic labels can be useful they can also be obstacles and excuses.

    So a diagnosis of ADHD can open doors to treatment, but also become an excuse not to do things. The more positive approach is "I have ADHD so need to have fewer distractions at work (for example not in an open plan office)".
    People love having a label. I remember when some of the nerves/muscles in my mother’s leg stopped working, which was a mystery that saw her referred to various medical specialists. One day she phoned me up to tell me they’d found out what it was - apparently, mononeuritis multiplex - which sounded a very specific diagnosis, until I looked it up and discovered it simply described the problem she had without any known cause (or more strictly, a range of possible causes).

    I posted here a few weeks back, when my dog training class was discussing the benefit changes then in the news, my surprise that all of their young adult kids appeared to be diagnosed with some mental health condition or other, and were either getting or trying to get PiP payments for it. Even the trainer claimed to have ADHD herself.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,682
    Nigelb said:

    In the latest Ajax news, a General Dynamics Land Systems (they are responsible for the misbeggoten program) manager is blaming/mocking the British army crews for the injuries it has caused them.
    https://x.com/MilitaryBanter/status/1996272940610879566

    Someone needs to have the balls to just bin the programme before any more good money gets thrown after the bad. It’s never going to work, so just admit that and order a load of perfectly-serviceable off-the-shelf alternatives.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,193

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    I have a theory that societal expectation (aka do /die) caused a lot of people to repress issues and “get on with it” to survive, in the Goode Olde Days.

    Thoughts?
    Social/cultural settings have a huge impact on behaviour, and psychology. Anorexia is far less prevalent, or was, in non-Western nations. In Japan, there's some sort of disorder from having yin/yang out of balance (I forget the details, it was quite some time ago I heard about it).
    I think part of the problem here is advertising (and social media) creating an expression that perfection is achievable at all times. Consequently, if you are not achieving perfection then something is wrong that needs fixing.

    I would ban advertising.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,056

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    I have a theory that societal expectation (aka do /die) caused a lot of people to repress issues and “get on with it” to survive, in the Goode Olde Days.

    Thoughts?
    Social/cultural settings have a huge impact on behaviour, and psychology. Anorexia is far less prevalent, or was, in non-Western nations. In Japan, there's some sort of disorder from having yin/yang out of balance (I forget the details, it was quite some time ago I heard about it).
    Years, ago, a Ghanaian ex of mine told me that after some fairly ghastly life experiences here in the U.K., one of her friends asked her “Why didn’t you have breakdown?”

    To which her reply was “I didn’t have the time”.

    She’d been brought up poor *in Ghana*. I don’t think “me time” is an option in that setting.

    She was a mass of unresolved issues, incidentally.

    Worth remembering the taboo against suicide in many cultures. Why did it need to be discouraged, so hard?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,970
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Labour expected to postpone mayoral elections by two years amid continued Reform poll lead
    The Independent has seen briefing notes from officials suggesting that mayoral elections will postponed from 2026 to 2028

    Keir Starmer’s government is expected to announce that crucial elections for new mayors are set to be postponed by two years. Elections for newly created mayoral posts in Cumbria, Cheshire & Warrington, Norfolk & Suffolk, Greater Essex, Sussex & Brighton, and Hampshire & Solent were due to be held next year. But it is understood the elections, where Reform are tipped to win, will be postponed by two years until 2028."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mayoral-elections-labour-reform-postpone-b2877661.html

    'Added to that, the delay means that the elections would not be held under first past the post, where the candidate who gets the most votes wins, even if they do not have above 50 per cent.Instead, it would revert to a proportional supplementary vote system following implentation of Labour’s local government reforms.'
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mayoral-elections-labour-reform-postpone-b2877661.html
    That’s a pretty disgusting move by Labour. They claimed it was to save money - may be, but they seem so casual about throwing away jury trials and free and regular elections and other important protections for their own convenience
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,631
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    Voice of reason from Foxy again.

    I know a few of my kids' generation with depression and/or anxiety - and who are in work.
    The quote appears to be "over-pathologised".

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar
    ..He has asked leading experts to investigate whether normal feelings have become “over-pathologised”, the newspaper said, as he seeks to grapple with the 4.4 million working-age people now claiming sickness or incapacity benefit.

    The figure has risen by 1.2 million since 2019, while the number of 16 to 34-year-olds off work with long-term sickness because of a mental health condition is said to have grown rapidly in the same period.

    Streeting told the Times he knew from “personal experience how devastating it can be for people who face poor mental health, have ADHD or autism and can’t get a diagnosis or the right support”.

    He added: “I also know, from speaking to clinicians, how the diagnosis of these conditions is sharply rising.

    “We must look at this through a strictly clinical lens to get an evidence-based understanding of what we know, what we don’t know, and what these patterns tell us about our mental health system, autism and ADHD services..

    The review, which is expected to be launched on Thursday, is set to be led by Prof Peter Fonagy, a clinical psychologist at University College London specialising in child mental health, with Sir Simon Wessely, a former president of the Royal College of Psychiatry, acting as vice-chair.
    I do have my doubts about some of the medicalisation of human variety. While diagnostic labels can be useful they can also be obstacles and excuses.

    So a diagnosis of ADHD can open doors to treatment, but also become an excuse not to do things. The more positive approach is "I have ADHD so need to have fewer distractions at work (for example not in an open plan office)".
    People love having a label. I remember when some of the nerves/muscles in my mother’s leg stopped working, which was a mystery that saw her referred to various medical specialists. One day she phoned me up to tell me they’d found out what it was - apparently, mononeuritis multiplex - which sounded a very specific diagnosis, until I looked it up and discovered it simply described the problem she had without any known cause (or more strictly, a range of possible causes).

    I posted here a few weeks back, when my dog training class was discussing the benefit changes then in the news, my surprise that all of their young adult kids appeared to be diagnosed with some mental health condition or other, and were either getting or trying to get PiP payments for it. Even the trainer claimed to have ADHD herself.
    Inevitable result of the removal of shame from benefits. They should be there for those in real need, but a degree of shame and embarassment is necessary to stop the *(*(& taking free for all we now enjoy paying for.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 125,088

    NEW THREAD

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,901

    carnforth said:

    Do you want to nationalise Greggs Zarah?

    She wasn't clear.




    Wokerati Marty
    @WokeratiMarty
    A clip from the New Statesman’s review of last weekends Your Party conference.
    https://x.com/WokeratiMarty/status/1996291743310868922

    It's not Greggs, it's Ours!
    Your Pasty.

    *I realise it's more sausage rolls, but that didn't work.
    YP majority baked in.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,887

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    I have a theory that societal expectation (aka do /die) caused a lot of people to repress issues and “get on with it” to survive, in the Goode Olde Days.

    Thoughts?
    Social/cultural settings have a huge impact on behaviour, and psychology. Anorexia is far less prevalent, or was, in non-Western nations. In Japan, there's some sort of disorder from having yin/yang out of balance (I forget the details, it was quite some time ago I heard about it).
    I think part of the problem here is advertising (and social media) creating an expression that perfection is achievable at all times. Consequently, if you are not achieving perfection then something is wrong that needs fixing.

    I would ban advertising.
    Social media is brilliant at throwing the glossed-up image in our faces at all times, rather than the messy reality of real people.

    Suspect that the nature of the workplace has changed in unhelpful ways as well. By becoming more 'scientific', it has become more stressful and less tolerant of the range of human quirks.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,970
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Starmer to delay new Mayoral elections for 2 years

    Has he been talking to Trump

    Some of the areas requiring reorganisations will take more time that their rather ambitious timetable would allow for. But there are other areas which are pretty ready to go, so I'm a little surprised it'd all be delayed.
    In Hampshire they are only now consulting on the new council boundaries, before which no work can be done on council size, ward boundaries, etc. There is no way that elections to these councils can take place next year - it was always inevitable that those areas faced with reorganisation would see a further postponement to 2027. The surprise in this story - if the papers the Indy has “seen” are accurate - is the further delay to 2028.
    The reorganisations have been known about for ages. Why didn’t they do the work before now?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,206

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    I have a theory that societal expectation (aka do /die) caused a lot of people to repress issues and “get on with it” to survive, in the Goode Olde Days.

    Thoughts?
    Social/cultural settings have a huge impact on behaviour, and psychology. Anorexia is far less prevalent, or was, in non-Western nations. In Japan, there's some sort of disorder from having yin/yang out of balance (I forget the details, it was quite some time ago I heard about it).
    Years, ago, a Ghanaian ex of mine told me that after some fairly ghastly life experiences here in the U.K., one of her friends asked her “Why didn’t you have breakdown?”

    To which her reply was “I didn’t have the time”.

    She’d been brought up poor *in Ghana*. I don’t think “me time” is an option in that setting.

    She was a mass of unresolved issues, incidentally.

    Worth remembering the taboo against suicide in many cultures. Why did it need to be discouraged, so hard?
    I think this a bit of a myth.

    The epidemiology of psychiatry is not very different in Africa. Perhaps a little less than in the West, but not by a lot.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9113063/

    The same conditions are managed a bit differently in informal welfare systems based on kinship as is typical in Africa. Often these conditions are treated as spiritual crises, possession by demons or witchcraft rather than a medical model.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,887

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Starmer to delay new Mayoral elections for 2 years

    Has he been talking to Trump

    Some of the areas requiring reorganisations will take more time that their rather ambitious timetable would allow for. But there are other areas which are pretty ready to go, so I'm a little surprised it'd all be delayed.
    In Hampshire they are only now consulting on the new council boundaries, before which no work can be done on council size, ward boundaries, etc. There is no way that elections to these councils can take place next year - it was always inevitable that those areas faced with reorganisation would see a further postponement to 2027. The surprise in this story - if the papers the Indy has “seen” are accurate - is the further delay to 2028.
    The reorganisations have been known about for ages. Why didn’t they do the work before now?
    One answer- councils don't like to vote themselves out of existence.

    Another answer- councils have civic pride and local knowledge which is why they don't think the size rules apply to them.

    Ceremonial Hampshire is 1.92 million people. From what the government has said about size, that's either 3 districts or 4.

    Four gives you councils centred on Portsmouth, Southampton, Winchester and Basingstoke. Three gives you Portsmouth, Southampton and the rest. Those are the options. Pick one. Next item.

    (There's a bit of a question of whether to shift the southern bits of Winchester and East Hants into Solent City districts, to reflect where people live, but even that's a quick ultralocal consultation.

    But basically, turkeys asked to vote on Christmas options will drag it out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 59,056
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Wes Streeting orders inquiry into mental health ‘overdiagnosis’
    Health secretary wants clinical review of the rise in conditions such as ADHD and autism that cause people to drop out of the workforce" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/wes-streeting-orders-inquiry-into-mental-health-overdiagnosis-hgpzjx7d5

    I can't read through the paywall but "overdiagnosis" is a loaded term implying that the conclision is written before the evidence is reviewed. The word is not used in the Guardian reporting the same story. It is very possible that the answer may lie elsewhere (smartphones driving pathological behaviour for example).

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/dec/03/wes-streeting-orders-review-of-mental-health-diagnoses-as-benefit-claims-soar?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    My team includes quite a few Millenials and Gen Z with significant mental health problems, particularly anxiety and neurodiversity related, often intertwined. Anxiety is sometimes a rather maladaptive form of conscienceousness, driven by not wanting to harm or offend others. Generally I think work is quite effective therapy for the conditions, but it does require support and understanding from the employer rather than a coercive "work or starve" approach, and needs to be part of a wider approach including therapy and often pharmaceuticals.

    Incidentally, there isn't much new under the sun. The figures given in my psychiatry training at medical school 40 years ago were that 1 in 6 women and 1 in 9 men would have a diagnosed psychiatric condition in their lifetime. In the Sixties there were loads on long term benzodiazipines like Valium etc. Perhaps they are too addictive to go back to that approach but it does show that the underlying issue was there.
    I have a theory that societal expectation (aka do /die) caused a lot of people to repress issues and “get on with it” to survive, in the Goode Olde Days.

    Thoughts?
    Social/cultural settings have a huge impact on behaviour, and psychology. Anorexia is far less prevalent, or was, in non-Western nations. In Japan, there's some sort of disorder from having yin/yang out of balance (I forget the details, it was quite some time ago I heard about it).
    Years, ago, a Ghanaian ex of mine told me that after some fairly ghastly life experiences here in the U.K., one of her friends asked her “Why didn’t you have breakdown?”

    To which her reply was “I didn’t have the time”.

    She’d been brought up poor *in Ghana*. I don’t think “me time” is an option in that setting.

    She was a mass of unresolved issues, incidentally.

    Worth remembering the taboo against suicide in many cultures. Why did it need to be discouraged, so hard?
    I think this a bit of a myth.

    The epidemiology of psychiatry is not very different in Africa. Perhaps a little less than in the West, but not by a lot.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9113063/

    The same conditions are managed a bit differently in informal welfare systems based on kinship as is typical in Africa. Often these conditions are treated as spiritual crises, possession by demons or witchcraft rather than a medical model.
    Actually, what I am saying is that the human condition is universal and hasn’t changed in millennia.

    She was just repressing stuff to get on with the “external” business of living life.

    The society in which he was brought up didn’t make letting it out an option.

    My point about the taboos against suicide on many cultures is that, unless suicide was a big issue, why repress it?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,477

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Starmer to delay new Mayoral elections for 2 years

    Has he been talking to Trump

    Some of the areas requiring reorganisations will take more time that their rather ambitious timetable would allow for. But there are other areas which are pretty ready to go, so I'm a little surprised it'd all be delayed.
    In Hampshire they are only now consulting on the new council boundaries, before which no work can be done on council size, ward boundaries, etc. There is no way that elections to these councils can take place next year - it was always inevitable that those areas faced with reorganisation would see a further postponement to 2027. The surprise in this story - if the papers the Indy has “seen” are accurate - is the further delay to 2028.
    The reorganisations have been known about for ages. Why didn’t they do the work before now?
    It was always the plan that local elections in those councils being reorganised would be further postponed to 2027. What’s new about today’s news is that the government is looking at pushing them back a further year.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 22,774
    The abolition of districts is another anti-democratic move.
    Westminster can’t help itself.

    Deranged to think that bodies of half a million people can provide a locally accountable planning function. Classic Treasury-think.
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