Skip to content

Too many tweets… – politicalbetting.com

13

Comments

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,141
    Reeves: The muppets in Cabinet get briefed on the morning of my budget and not before.

    Not quite what she said but bloody not far off frankly,
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,145
    I don't expect it to happen, but the Supreme Court could effectively end Trump 2.0 in short order.

    All of his revenge court cases are trash.

    His drug boat killings are illegal.

    They could rule against tariffs and that would be pretty much it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,145
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ReallyAmerican1

    BREAKING: Senator Kelly just unloaded on Trump, calling out how Trump was bragging about his "tallest building" on 9/11 and writing birthday cards to Epstein while Kelly was doing heroic, patriotic things.

    "The President and Hegseth will not silence me."

    https://x.com/ReallyAmerican1/status/1995603260091379817?s=20

    He's 33-1 on Polymarket to be the Democratic nominee. Worth 5 quid?
    Not sure he wants it
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,840

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    You could probably just stop after the 6th word.

    Or maybe the 3rd tbh.
    Outrageous it is, but it's not a double tap as the phrase is normally used. This is a double tap:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_tap_strike
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,769
    Scott_xP said:

    Trump to hold a meeting on Venezuela this evening with Rubio, Hegseth and the Chair of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, CNN reports.

    He's going to illegally bomb them on land to distract from the story about (checks notes) illegally bombing them at sea

    He's gone completely Caracas!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 34,023

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Hegseth is finished.

    I doubt he'll make the weekend.


    I am not so sure. First time around Trump lost people almost every month.

    This time around it seems no stupidity, corruption or incompetence gets a sacking.
    Yup, he doesn't want the first domino to fall.

    It will, but maybe not just yet
    Why will it?

    Hegseth is doing what he wants. Why would he let him go?

    He should go, but he won't.

    He should never have been there in the first place.

    Trump should never have been re-elected in the first place.

    Trump should never have been elected in the first place.

    But we are where we are, and these bastards have three years and just under 2 months left in office. Whether we like it or not.
    The Supreme Court might be about to do Trump a favour by ruling against his tariffs, which have been driving up the cost of living for ordinary Americans (since as everyone except Trump knows, tariffs are paid by importers, not by the country where the exporter is based). This in turn might boost Trump's dire ratings and help Republicans in the midterms next autumn.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,530
    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One major impact with defections is defectors go from being political enemies to being principled heroes who have seen the light on how brilliant your party is. The same goes for Reform in their treatment of the 3 Tory ex MP defectors today

    One of the ironies of the Tory/Reform switchers is that the very people who have laid the Tories low - those who indulged Boris, and then gave us Truss - are the very same people clambering aboard the Reform ship. Leaving the more sensible Tories who have remained, blinking in the twilight and hoping that there might be an outbreak of commonsense sometime soon.

    Thoughts on Kemi. What she has proven is that she is not an IDS-type dud. She does possess something a bit special, but remains some considerable distance from being perceived by the public as a credible alternative PM. This is why I favoured Cleverly. But she has stifled Jenrick, so that's something and seems to be getting the hang of it, a bit. All the same, there is no movement in the polls and next May still looks grim. So, the long run it is.

    For May, I think the Conservatives will need to learn from Kenneth Baker who, back in the day, managed to persuade the media to focus on the results in Westminster and Wandsworth, and overlook what was happening everywhere else.
    Yes, about 40% of the 2019 Conservative vote has gone Reform, another 40% has stayed Tory and the remaining 20% has gone Labour or LD.
    Of the Conservatives who have gone Reform, from the likes of Dorries, Kruger and Gullis down they are all from the Boris loyalist wing which switched to backing Truss in 2022 v Sunak and backed Jenrick over Kemi last year. Ironically that may sure up Kemi's position and increase Cleverly or Stride's chances too as the more Jenrick backers go Reform, the harder it will be for Jenrick to replace Kemi as Tory leader before the next general election.

    You are also right, while the Tories will likely suffer losses overall in the local and devolved elections next May, they could gain Westminster and Barnet and should hold Kensington and Chelsea which Kemi and her backers would highlight
    I increasingly think the Tories will gain seats back from the Liberal Democrats.

    They've convinced themselves it's all permanent because Values and Brexit, but the more they act like Santa's little helper the more voters in affluent English seats will make the choice they need to.
    Davey cleverly opposed the Mansion Tax, the WFA cut, the freezing of income tax thresholds, the family farm and family business tax and the NI rise on employers so I doubt that will happen.

    If the Tories gain any seats at the next GE they will almost certainly be Labour held
    Also, Lib Dems are bloody good at digging in locally. "Standing Up For Yourtown at Westminster", that sort of thing. The sort of antipolitics that is pushing Reform and the Greens forward right now.

    It will all go Pete Tong if the 2029 result is a LabLib coalition, but that only becomes an electoral problem in 2034 or so.

    Eight and a half years doesn't take long if you say it quickly.
    Indeed, once a LD MP or councillor gets in getting rid of them is like removing Japanese knotweed.

    Whereas whether a Tory or Labour MP or councillor holds their seat largely depends on the national swing.

    A Labour and LD coalition would also likely be less fatal for the LDs than the Tory coalition was, as more LD voters now prefer Starmer as PM over Farage and Badenoch than preferred Cameron over Ed Miliband as PM back then
    Both the LDs and Conservatives have a lot of thinking to do IF the next election develops into a Reform vs Labour contest.
    It is less problematic for the LDs to be anti-Reform than it is for the Tories to pick a side.
    The problem for the LDs is that a majority of their voters might actually back Reform over Labour in a forced choice, whereas their activists certainly wouldn't.
    What forced choice ?
    In LibDem seats, that's really not a thing.
    If the Lib Dems are seen as too keen to prop up Labour, their voters might stay at home or vote Tory.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,303


    Acyn
    @Acyn

    Kelly: When Trump was driving the Taj Mahal Casino into bankruptcy, I was being shot at over Iraq…. When Trump was writing birthday greetings to Epstein, I was the first on the scene to recover the bodies of my fellow astronauts… When Trump was peddling conspiracy theories against President Obama, I was sitting next to my wife’s hospital bed… I’ve been through a lot worse in service to my country. The President and Pete Hegseth are not going to silence me.

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1995597872809771065

    Going after Senator Kelly may not prove to be Trump's brightest idea. Possible overreach?

    Analogous to Joe McCarthy's fateful decision to turn on the US military?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,022

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One major impact with defections is defectors go from being political enemies to being principled heroes who have seen the light on how brilliant your party is. The same goes for Reform in their treatment of the 3 Tory ex MP defectors today

    One of the ironies of the Tory/Reform switchers is that the very people who have laid the Tories low - those who indulged Boris, and then gave us Truss - are the very same people clambering aboard the Reform ship. Leaving the more sensible Tories who have remained, blinking in the twilight and hoping that there might be an outbreak of commonsense sometime soon.

    Thoughts on Kemi. What she has proven is that she is not an IDS-type dud. She does possess something a bit special, but remains some considerable distance from being perceived by the public as a credible alternative PM. This is why I favoured Cleverly. But she has stifled Jenrick, so that's something and seems to be getting the hang of it, a bit. All the same, there is no movement in the polls and next May still looks grim. So, the long run it is.

    For May, I think the Conservatives will need to learn from Kenneth Baker who, back in the day, managed to persuade the media to focus on the results in Westminster and Wandsworth, and overlook what was happening everywhere else.
    Yes, about 40% of the 2019 Conservative vote has gone Reform, another 40% has stayed Tory and the remaining 20% has gone Labour or LD.
    Of the Conservatives who have gone Reform, from the likes of Dorries, Kruger and Gullis down they are all from the Boris loyalist wing which switched to backing Truss in 2022 v Sunak and backed Jenrick over Kemi last year. Ironically that may sure up Kemi's position and increase Cleverly or Stride's chances too as the more Jenrick backers go Reform, the harder it will be for Jenrick to replace Kemi as Tory leader before the next general election.

    You are also right, while the Tories will likely suffer losses overall in the local and devolved elections next May, they could gain Westminster and Barnet and should hold Kensington and Chelsea which Kemi and her backers would highlight
    I increasingly think the Tories will gain seats back from the Liberal Democrats.

    They've convinced themselves it's all permanent because Values and Brexit, but the more they act like Santa's little helper the more voters in affluent English seats will make the choice they need to.
    Davey cleverly opposed the Mansion Tax, the WFA cut, the freezing of income tax thresholds, the family farm and family business tax and the NI rise on employers so I doubt that will happen.

    If the Tories gain any seats at the next GE they will almost certainly be Labour held
    Also, Lib Dems are bloody good at digging in locally. "Standing Up For Yourtown at Westminster", that sort of thing. The sort of antipolitics that is pushing Reform and the Greens forward right now.

    It will all go Pete Tong if the 2029 result is a LabLib coalition, but that only becomes an electoral problem in 2034 or so.

    Eight and a half years doesn't take long if you say it quickly.
    Indeed, once a LD MP or councillor gets in getting rid of them is like removing Japanese knotweed.

    Whereas whether a Tory or Labour MP or councillor holds their seat largely depends on the national swing.

    A Labour and LD coalition would also likely be less fatal for the LDs than the Tory coalition was, as more LD voters now prefer Starmer as PM over Farage and Badenoch than preferred Cameron over Ed Miliband as PM back then
    Both the LDs and Conservatives have a lot of thinking to do IF the next election develops into a Reform vs Labour contest.
    It is less problematic for the LDs to be anti-Reform than it is for the Tories to pick a side.
    The problem for the LDs is that a majority of their voters might actually back Reform over Labour in a forced choice, whereas their activists certainly wouldn't.
    What forced choice ?
    In LibDem seats, that's really not a thing.
    If the Lib Dems are seen as too keen to prop up Labour, their voters might stay at home or vote Tory.
    That is not a forced choice, william.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,966
    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.

    1) Obama wasn't doing "double taps" on the survivors.
    2) Firing on the shipwrecked is the classic, open-and-shut, illegal order. As used in US briefings on the subject of illegal orders.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Peleus
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,176

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    What we are noticing in the hospital is a lot of angry white Gen X men who reject treatment, lose their rag at the staff, miss follow up appointments etc. It isn't just teenagers being destroyed by Social Media.

    Still its a free country, and their funeral. Sometimes literally.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,507
    Scott_xP said:

    I don't expect it to happen, but the Supreme Court could effectively end Trump 2.0 in short order.

    All of his revenge court cases are trash.

    His drug boat killings are illegal.

    They could rule against tariffs and that would be pretty much it.

    If they rule against tariffs, then that is good for the US economy, *and* he gets to blame the Supreme Court for prohibiting him from sending $2,000 cheques to voters just before the midterms.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,647
    edited December 1

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One major impact with defections is defectors go from being political enemies to being principled heroes who have seen the light on how brilliant your party is. The same goes for Reform in their treatment of the 3 Tory ex MP defectors today

    One of the ironies of the Tory/Reform switchers is that the very people who have laid the Tories low - those who indulged Boris, and then gave us Truss - are the very same people clambering aboard the Reform ship. Leaving the more sensible Tories who have remained, blinking in the twilight and hoping that there might be an outbreak of commonsense sometime soon.

    Thoughts on Kemi. What she has proven is that she is not an IDS-type dud. She does possess something a bit special, but remains some considerable distance from being perceived by the public as a credible alternative PM. This is why I favoured Cleverly. But she has stifled Jenrick, so that's something and seems to be getting the hang of it, a bit. All the same, there is no movement in the polls and next May still looks grim. So, the long run it is.

    For May, I think the Conservatives will need to learn from Kenneth Baker who, back in the day, managed to persuade the media to focus on the results in Westminster and Wandsworth, and overlook what was happening everywhere else.
    Yes, about 40% of the 2019 Conservative vote has gone Reform, another 40% has stayed Tory and the remaining 20% has gone Labour or LD.
    Of the Conservatives who have gone Reform, from the likes of Dorries, Kruger and Gullis down they are all from the Boris loyalist wing which switched to backing Truss in 2022 v Sunak and backed Jenrick over Kemi last year. Ironically that may sure up Kemi's position and increase Cleverly or Stride's chances too as the more Jenrick backers go Reform, the harder it will be for Jenrick to replace Kemi as Tory leader before the next general election.

    You are also right, while the Tories will likely suffer losses overall in the local and devolved elections next May, they could gain Westminster and Barnet and should hold Kensington and Chelsea which Kemi and her backers would highlight
    I increasingly think the Tories will gain seats back from the Liberal Democrats.

    They've convinced themselves it's all permanent because Values and Brexit, but the more they act like Santa's little helper the more voters in affluent English seats will make the choice they need to.
    Davey cleverly opposed the Mansion Tax, the WFA cut, the freezing of income tax thresholds, the family farm and family business tax and the NI rise on employers so I doubt that will happen.

    If the Tories gain any seats at the next GE they will almost certainly be Labour held
    Also, Lib Dems are bloody good at digging in locally. "Standing Up For Yourtown at Westminster", that sort of thing. The sort of antipolitics that is pushing Reform and the Greens forward right now.

    It will all go Pete Tong if the 2029 result is a LabLib coalition, but that only becomes an electoral problem in 2034 or so.

    Eight and a half years doesn't take long if you say it quickly.
    Indeed, once a LD MP or councillor gets in getting rid of them is like removing Japanese knotweed.

    Whereas whether a Tory or Labour MP or councillor holds their seat largely depends on the national swing.

    A Labour and LD coalition would also likely be less fatal for the LDs than the Tory coalition was, as more LD voters now prefer Starmer as PM over Farage and Badenoch than preferred Cameron over Ed Miliband as PM back then
    Both the LDs and Conservatives have a lot of thinking to do IF the next election develops into a Reform vs Labour contest.
    It is less problematic for the LDs to be anti-Reform than it is for the Tories to pick a side.
    The problem for the LDs is that a majority of their voters might actually back Reform over Labour in a forced choice, whereas their activists certainly wouldn't.
    What forced choice ?
    In LibDem seats, that's really not a thing.
    If the Lib Dems are seen as too keen to prop up Labour, their voters might stay at home or vote Tory.
    Whereas if the Conservatives are seen as too keen to put Farage into Downing Street, their voters might stay at home or vote Lib Dem.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,966
    MattW said:

    There was a discussion earlier re: planning and biodiversity constraints.

    I see the government is considering exempting most small developments from the Biodiversity Net Gain requirements:
    https://cieem.net/cieem-calls-on-members-to-help-defend-bng/

    Obviously the CIEEM [Chartered Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management] are against it, but whisper quietly that some of their members might be happy not to have to deal with such nonsense.

    Might reduce a bit of the red tape, although not for big developments.

    On the other hand, I think it will now be mandatory for national infrastructure projects. Swings and roundabouts...

    That has potential to unclog a lot of currently clogged up developments.

    I'm not sure on the scale of the upside.
    "This would exempt over 95% of current development projects from delivering net gain and effectively wipe out more than £50 million in the annual market value of BNG overnight, triggering a likely collapse."


  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,530
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One major impact with defections is defectors go from being political enemies to being principled heroes who have seen the light on how brilliant your party is. The same goes for Reform in their treatment of the 3 Tory ex MP defectors today

    One of the ironies of the Tory/Reform switchers is that the very people who have laid the Tories low - those who indulged Boris, and then gave us Truss - are the very same people clambering aboard the Reform ship. Leaving the more sensible Tories who have remained, blinking in the twilight and hoping that there might be an outbreak of commonsense sometime soon.

    Thoughts on Kemi. What she has proven is that she is not an IDS-type dud. She does possess something a bit special, but remains some considerable distance from being perceived by the public as a credible alternative PM. This is why I favoured Cleverly. But she has stifled Jenrick, so that's something and seems to be getting the hang of it, a bit. All the same, there is no movement in the polls and next May still looks grim. So, the long run it is.

    For May, I think the Conservatives will need to learn from Kenneth Baker who, back in the day, managed to persuade the media to focus on the results in Westminster and Wandsworth, and overlook what was happening everywhere else.
    Yes, about 40% of the 2019 Conservative vote has gone Reform, another 40% has stayed Tory and the remaining 20% has gone Labour or LD.
    Of the Conservatives who have gone Reform, from the likes of Dorries, Kruger and Gullis down they are all from the Boris loyalist wing which switched to backing Truss in 2022 v Sunak and backed Jenrick over Kemi last year. Ironically that may sure up Kemi's position and increase Cleverly or Stride's chances too as the more Jenrick backers go Reform, the harder it will be for Jenrick to replace Kemi as Tory leader before the next general election.

    You are also right, while the Tories will likely suffer losses overall in the local and devolved elections next May, they could gain Westminster and Barnet and should hold Kensington and Chelsea which Kemi and her backers would highlight
    I increasingly think the Tories will gain seats back from the Liberal Democrats.

    They've convinced themselves it's all permanent because Values and Brexit, but the more they act like Santa's little helper the more voters in affluent English seats will make the choice they need to.
    Davey cleverly opposed the Mansion Tax, the WFA cut, the freezing of income tax thresholds, the family farm and family business tax and the NI rise on employers so I doubt that will happen.

    If the Tories gain any seats at the next GE they will almost certainly be Labour held
    Also, Lib Dems are bloody good at digging in locally. "Standing Up For Yourtown at Westminster", that sort of thing. The sort of antipolitics that is pushing Reform and the Greens forward right now.

    It will all go Pete Tong if the 2029 result is a LabLib coalition, but that only becomes an electoral problem in 2034 or so.

    Eight and a half years doesn't take long if you say it quickly.
    Indeed, once a LD MP or councillor gets in getting rid of them is like removing Japanese knotweed.

    Whereas whether a Tory or Labour MP or councillor holds their seat largely depends on the national swing.

    A Labour and LD coalition would also likely be less fatal for the LDs than the Tory coalition was, as more LD voters now prefer Starmer as PM over Farage and Badenoch than preferred Cameron over Ed Miliband as PM back then
    Both the LDs and Conservatives have a lot of thinking to do IF the next election develops into a Reform vs Labour contest.
    It is less problematic for the LDs to be anti-Reform than it is for the Tories to pick a side.
    The problem for the LDs is that a majority of their voters might actually back Reform over Labour in a forced choice, whereas their activists certainly wouldn't.
    What forced choice ?
    In LibDem seats, that's really not a thing.
    If the Lib Dems are seen as too keen to prop up Labour, their voters might stay at home or vote Tory.
    That is not a forced choice, william.
    By proxy. It would be either strong and patriotic government with Nigel Farage, or a coalition of chaos with Ed Miliband Keir Starmer.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One major impact with defections is defectors go from being political enemies to being principled heroes who have seen the light on how brilliant your party is. The same goes for Reform in their treatment of the 3 Tory ex MP defectors today

    One of the ironies of the Tory/Reform switchers is that the very people who have laid the Tories low - those who indulged Boris, and then gave us Truss - are the very same people clambering aboard the Reform ship. Leaving the more sensible Tories who have remained, blinking in the twilight and hoping that there might be an outbreak of commonsense sometime soon.

    Thoughts on Kemi. What she has proven is that she is not an IDS-type dud. She does possess something a bit special, but remains some considerable distance from being perceived by the public as a credible alternative PM. This is why I favoured Cleverly. But she has stifled Jenrick, so that's something and seems to be getting the hang of it, a bit. All the same, there is no movement in the polls and next May still looks grim. So, the long run it is.

    For May, I think the Conservatives will need to learn from Kenneth Baker who, back in the day, managed to persuade the media to focus on the results in Westminster and Wandsworth, and overlook what was happening everywhere else.
    Yes, about 40% of the 2019 Conservative vote has gone Reform, another 40% has stayed Tory and the remaining 20% has gone Labour or LD.
    Of the Conservatives who have gone Reform, from the likes of Dorries, Kruger and Gullis down they are all from the Boris loyalist wing which switched to backing Truss in 2022 v Sunak and backed Jenrick over Kemi last year. Ironically that may sure up Kemi's position and increase Cleverly or Stride's chances too as the more Jenrick backers go Reform, the harder it will be for Jenrick to replace Kemi as Tory leader before the next general election.

    You are also right, while the Tories will likely suffer losses overall in the local and devolved elections next May, they could gain Westminster and Barnet and should hold Kensington and Chelsea which Kemi and her backers would highlight
    I increasingly think the Tories will gain seats back from the Liberal Democrats.

    They've convinced themselves it's all permanent because Values and Brexit, but the more they act like Santa's little helper the more voters in affluent English seats will make the choice they need to.
    Davey cleverly opposed the Mansion Tax, the WFA cut, the freezing of income tax thresholds, the family farm and family business tax and the NI rise on employers so I doubt that will happen.

    If the Tories gain any seats at the next GE they will almost certainly be Labour held
    Also, Lib Dems are bloody good at digging in locally. "Standing Up For Yourtown at Westminster", that sort of thing. The sort of antipolitics that is pushing Reform and the Greens forward right now.

    It will all go Pete Tong if the 2029 result is a LabLib coalition, but that only becomes an electoral problem in 2034 or so.

    Eight and a half years doesn't take long if you say it quickly.
    Indeed, once a LD MP or councillor gets in getting rid of them is like removing Japanese knotweed.

    Whereas whether a Tory or Labour MP or councillor holds their seat largely depends on the national swing.

    A Labour and LD coalition would also likely be less fatal for the LDs than the Tory coalition was, as more LD voters now prefer Starmer as PM over Farage and Badenoch than preferred Cameron over Ed Miliband as PM back then
    Both the LDs and Conservatives have a lot of thinking to do IF the next election develops into a Reform vs Labour contest.
    It is less problematic for the LDs to be anti-Reform than it is for the Tories to pick a side.
    The problem for the LDs is that a majority of their voters might actually back Reform over Labour in a forced choice, whereas their activists certainly wouldn't.
    What forced choice ?
    In LibDem seats, that's really not a thing.
    If the Lib Dems are seen as too keen to prop up Labour, their voters might stay at home or vote Tory.
    That is not a forced choice, william.
    By proxy. It would be either strong and patriotic government with Nigel Farage, or a coalition of chaos with Ed Miliband Keir Starmer.
    Chaos is better than stagnation or being strongly wrong.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,966
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    What we are noticing in the hospital is a lot of angry white Gen X men who reject treatment, lose their rag at the staff, miss follow up appointments etc. It isn't just teenagers being destroyed by Social Media.

    Still its a free country, and their funeral. Sometimes literally.
    Talking of missed appointments - with all the attempts at getting IT to follow through in the NHS, why haven't they sorted out adding appointments to calendars, via the NHS app & the texts sent out? Complete with alerts and travel directions?

    If it reduced the missed appointments by 10%.....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,473

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    Two reasons:
    1) Anecdotally, there was a spike in SEN kids as tge cohort who were babies during lockdown entered the school system. That should be a blip.
    2) More long term, we are much much bettet than we used to be at keepinf very premature babies alive. Many of these go on to have very challenging needs.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,718
    edited December 1
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    What we are noticing in the hospital is a lot of angry white Gen X men who reject treatment, lose their rag at the staff, miss follow up appointments etc. It isn't just teenagers being destroyed by Social Media.

    Still its a free country, and their funeral. Sometimes literally.
    I know someone who works at a significant Scottish cultural attraction - tours, gift shop, stuff like that. They wear body cameras now after the verbal and physical abuse they get.

    I used to work in retail and it was pretty grim at times, but I what I hear now is just another level. It could be "main character syndrome", but I also think social media gives people the impression that drama is common part of life when, in reality, it should be very unusual to get into even a verbal confrontation. Imagine being spat at because you close at 4pm on Sundays.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,825

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    What we are noticing in the hospital is a lot of angry white Gen X men who reject treatment, lose their rag at the staff, miss follow up appointments etc. It isn't just teenagers being destroyed by Social Media.

    Still its a free country, and their funeral. Sometimes literally.
    Talking of missed appointments - with all the attempts at getting IT to follow through in the NHS, why haven't they sorted out adding appointments to calendars, via the NHS app & the texts sent out? Complete with alerts and travel directions?

    If it reduced the missed appointments by 10%.....
    Assumption that everyone has a smartphone with a calendar ... and what software? But it could be useful.
  • Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    Two reasons:
    1) Anecdotally, there was a spike in SEN kids as tge cohort who were babies during lockdown entered the school system. That should be a blip.
    2) More long term, we are much much bettet than we used to be at keepinf very premature babies alive. Many of these go on to have very challenging needs.
    3) We have been better at diagnosing issues that would have in the past been dismissed as normal/naughty/whatever.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,022

    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    1) Obama wasn't doing "double taps" on the survivors.
    2) Firing on the shipwrecked is the classic, open-and-shut, illegal order. As used in US briefings on the subject of illegal orders.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Peleus
    Actually, it is quite possible they did occur.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-24557333.amp

    He was rightly criticised, extensively, at the time.

    The legal situation was somewhat different, since they happened under the AUMF
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5305/amerjintelaw.110.4.0628

    But that in no way excuses them, IMO.

    Whatever the truth of that, it makes no difference at all to the illegality of the current strikes.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,311

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Hegseth is finished.

    I doubt he'll make the weekend.


    I am not so sure. First time around Trump lost people almost every month.

    This time around it seems no stupidity, corruption or incompetence gets a sacking.
    Yup, he doesn't want the first domino to fall.

    It will, but maybe not just yet
    Why will it?

    Hegseth is doing what he wants. Why would he let him go?

    He should go, but he won't.

    He should never have been there in the first place.

    Trump should never have been re-elected in the first place.

    Trump should never have been elected in the first place.

    But we are where we are, and these bastards have three years and just under 2 months left in office. Whether we like it or not.
    Congress has the power to kick them all out before Xmas. You basically just need 20 Republican Senators to wake up and smell the coffee.

    Is that going to happen? Probably not, but it’s possible.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,022

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    One major impact with defections is defectors go from being political enemies to being principled heroes who have seen the light on how brilliant your party is. The same goes for Reform in their treatment of the 3 Tory ex MP defectors today

    One of the ironies of the Tory/Reform switchers is that the very people who have laid the Tories low - those who indulged Boris, and then gave us Truss - are the very same people clambering aboard the Reform ship. Leaving the more sensible Tories who have remained, blinking in the twilight and hoping that there might be an outbreak of commonsense sometime soon.

    Thoughts on Kemi. What she has proven is that she is not an IDS-type dud. She does possess something a bit special, but remains some considerable distance from being perceived by the public as a credible alternative PM. This is why I favoured Cleverly. But she has stifled Jenrick, so that's something and seems to be getting the hang of it, a bit. All the same, there is no movement in the polls and next May still looks grim. So, the long run it is.

    For May, I think the Conservatives will need to learn from Kenneth Baker who, back in the day, managed to persuade the media to focus on the results in Westminster and Wandsworth, and overlook what was happening everywhere else.
    Yes, about 40% of the 2019 Conservative vote has gone Reform, another 40% has stayed Tory and the remaining 20% has gone Labour or LD.
    Of the Conservatives who have gone Reform, from the likes of Dorries, Kruger and Gullis down they are all from the Boris loyalist wing which switched to backing Truss in 2022 v Sunak and backed Jenrick over Kemi last year. Ironically that may sure up Kemi's position and increase Cleverly or Stride's chances too as the more Jenrick backers go Reform, the harder it will be for Jenrick to replace Kemi as Tory leader before the next general election.

    You are also right, while the Tories will likely suffer losses overall in the local and devolved elections next May, they could gain Westminster and Barnet and should hold Kensington and Chelsea which Kemi and her backers would highlight
    I increasingly think the Tories will gain seats back from the Liberal Democrats.

    They've convinced themselves it's all permanent because Values and Brexit, but the more they act like Santa's little helper the more voters in affluent English seats will make the choice they need to.
    Davey cleverly opposed the Mansion Tax, the WFA cut, the freezing of income tax thresholds, the family farm and family business tax and the NI rise on employers so I doubt that will happen.

    If the Tories gain any seats at the next GE they will almost certainly be Labour held
    Also, Lib Dems are bloody good at digging in locally. "Standing Up For Yourtown at Westminster", that sort of thing. The sort of antipolitics that is pushing Reform and the Greens forward right now.

    It will all go Pete Tong if the 2029 result is a LabLib coalition, but that only becomes an electoral problem in 2034 or so.

    Eight and a half years doesn't take long if you say it quickly.
    Indeed, once a LD MP or councillor gets in getting rid of them is like removing Japanese knotweed.

    Whereas whether a Tory or Labour MP or councillor holds their seat largely depends on the national swing.

    A Labour and LD coalition would also likely be less fatal for the LDs than the Tory coalition was, as more LD voters now prefer Starmer as PM over Farage and Badenoch than preferred Cameron over Ed Miliband as PM back then
    Both the LDs and Conservatives have a lot of thinking to do IF the next election develops into a Reform vs Labour contest.
    It is less problematic for the LDs to be anti-Reform than it is for the Tories to pick a side.
    The problem for the LDs is that a majority of their voters might actually back Reform over Labour in a forced choice, whereas their activists certainly wouldn't.
    What forced choice ?
    In LibDem seats, that's really not a thing.
    If the Lib Dems are seen as too keen to prop up Labour, their voters might stay at home or vote Tory.
    That is not a forced choice, william.
    By proxy. It would be either strong and patriotic government with Nigel Farage, or a coalition of chaos with Ed Miliband Keir Starmer.
    You are tying yourself in knots.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,966
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    What we are noticing in the hospital is a lot of angry white Gen X men who reject treatment, lose their rag at the staff, miss follow up appointments etc. It isn't just teenagers being destroyed by Social Media.

    Still its a free country, and their funeral. Sometimes literally.
    Talking of missed appointments - with all the attempts at getting IT to follow through in the NHS, why haven't they sorted out adding appointments to calendars, via the NHS app & the texts sent out? Complete with alerts and travel directions?

    If it reduced the missed appointments by 10%.....
    Assumption that everyone has a smartphone with a calendar ... and what software? But it could be useful.
    The proportion of the population that doesn't have an iPhone or an Android phone continues to drop. And .ics files are read by just about everything.

    80% solutions and all that.

    It's the kind of cheap simple thing.... that the apps from the private health care providers do. Right now.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,473

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    Two reasons:
    1) Anecdotally, there was a spike in SEN kids as tge cohort who were babies during lockdown entered the school system. That should be a blip.
    2) More long term, we are much much bettet than we used to be at keepinf very premature babies alive. Many of these go on to have very challenging needs.
    3) We have been better at diagnosing issues that would have in the past been dismissed as normal/naughty/whatever.
    Yes, that's probably even more relevant, though that tends to be at the easier-to-meet-in-mainstream-education end of the spectrum.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,161
    How much did it hurt Trump in 2016 when erstwhile bitter critic Chris Christie bent the knee and paid homage? Oh yeah, none at all.

    How much does it hurt Trump to have the support of so many of the establishment Republicans that he spends so much time railing against? Oh yeah, not at all.

    It certainly ought to hurt Farage, and it has to be worth a try trying to paint him as a continuity Tory, but I really don't think it will.

    For one thing the Tories defecting to Reform all have to bend the knee and praise Farage to the sky. The act of defecting from the Tories can be seen as a cleansing ritual, during which they are born again, and their prior sins as Tories forgiven. They've admitted they were wrong to be Tories, in the same way that Reform voters will have had to conclude that they were wrong to vote Tory (or Labour).

    What might be very different would be if Farage were to go into coalition with the Tories - particularly if he found himself in the unfortunate position of being a junior coalition partner propping up a Tory PM.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,311

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    We are land creatures, Luckyguy1983. (Well, except for DougSeal.) The sea is thus an inherently hostile place to us in a way that the land is not. Thus, people can be shipwrecked, but not landwrecked.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,647
    Late evening all :)

    I've done some silly things in my life...

    Is having a tenner on England at 9/4 to win the second test right up there with the silliest of them?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,022
    .
    stodge said:

    Late evening all :)

    I've done some silly things in my life...

    Is having a tenner on England at 9/4 to win the second test right up there with the silliest of them?

    A person can dream.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,311
    .

    How much did it hurt Trump in 2016 when erstwhile bitter critic Chris Christie bent the knee and paid homage? Oh yeah, none at all.

    How much does it hurt Trump to have the support of so many of the establishment Republicans that he spends so much time railing against? Oh yeah, not at all.

    It certainly ought to hurt Farage, and it has to be worth a try trying to paint him as a continuity Tory, but I really don't think it will.

    For one thing the Tories defecting to Reform all have to bend the knee and praise Farage to the sky. The act of defecting from the Tories can be seen as a cleansing ritual, during which they are born again, and their prior sins as Tories forgiven. They've admitted they were wrong to be Tories, in the same way that Reform voters will have had to conclude that they were wrong to vote Tory (or Labour).

    What might be very different would be if Farage were to go into coalition with the Tories - particularly if he found himself in the unfortunate position of being a junior coalition partner propping up a Tory PM.

    I doubt Farage would agree to be the junior partner in a coalition with the Tories. He’d rather say no and force another election.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,769
    Some light bedtime reading.

    Apparently a "W H Smith exclusive" dating from 1990, found after many years gathering dust in my wardrobe.


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,966

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    We are land creatures, Luckyguy1983. (Well, except for DougSeal.) The sea is thus an inherently hostile place to us in a way that the land is not. Thus, people can be shipwrecked, but not landwrecked.
    Thanks for that. Now, due to a collision in my hash tables, I've got a mental picture of a pinniped with an MP38 going all Herr Stamper on shipwrecked survivors.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,161
    DavidL said:

    Russia's 2026 budget has 40% of all spending for the military: https://theukrainianreview.info/russia-approves-2026-budget-40-of-spending-goes-to-military-ccd/

    A very marked increase. They are also running a deficit although, to be fair, it is considerably smaller than ours at 1.6% of GDP.

    Putin very clearly has absolutely no intention whatsoever of stopping this war.

    Russia started the war with essentially zero national debt, and it's currently able to borrow quite a lot from it's own population.

    However I think it's also experimenting with issuing Yuan-denominated debt, so that it can tap into funds from China (which isn't so keen on anything denominated in roubles).

    There's a lot of financial road left for Russia, even if Ukraine succeed in wrecking Russia's oil exports. Britain borrowed about 25-30% of GDP for each full year of WWI and WWII.

    The only quick end for the war is to lose it. If we want to avoid losing we have to get serious about winning.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,141
    Mark Kelly, POTUS candidate, stock up a ton today?



  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,311

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    We are land creatures, Luckyguy1983. (Well, except for DougSeal.) The sea is thus an inherently hostile place to us in a way that the land is not. Thus, people can be shipwrecked, but not landwrecked.
    Thanks for that. Now, due to a collision in my hash tables, I've got a mental picture of a pinniped with an MP38 going all Herr Stamper on shipwrecked survivors.
    Wrong way round. The point is that while it’s a war crime to bomb a shipwreck, it would not be a war crime to “double tap” @DougSeal . (Sorry, Doug.)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 21,161

    .

    How much did it hurt Trump in 2016 when erstwhile bitter critic Chris Christie bent the knee and paid homage? Oh yeah, none at all.

    How much does it hurt Trump to have the support of so many of the establishment Republicans that he spends so much time railing against? Oh yeah, not at all.

    It certainly ought to hurt Farage, and it has to be worth a try trying to paint him as a continuity Tory, but I really don't think it will.

    For one thing the Tories defecting to Reform all have to bend the knee and praise Farage to the sky. The act of defecting from the Tories can be seen as a cleansing ritual, during which they are born again, and their prior sins as Tories forgiven. They've admitted they were wrong to be Tories, in the same way that Reform voters will have had to conclude that they were wrong to vote Tory (or Labour).

    What might be very different would be if Farage were to go into coalition with the Tories - particularly if he found himself in the unfortunate position of being a junior coalition partner propping up a Tory PM.

    I doubt Farage would agree to be the junior partner in a coalition with the Tories. He’d rather say no and force another election.
    Exactly so.

    If Farage thought that accepting the deflection of Tories would be damaging then he would gleefully and publicly refuse to accept the defections.

    Defections create a sense of momentum and success.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 155
    OK so I read the Fingleton report. Not a classic. It’s so specific to the nuclear industry that the Starmers comments don’t make much sense. Fingletron’s intro that mentions “process over outcome using complex procedures as protection” and “lack of incentives aligned with the public interest” feel like are talking about a different document to the report and it’s recommendations which is really odd.

    I wonder what nuclear experts think of it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,769

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    We are land creatures, Luckyguy1983. (Well, except for DougSeal.) The sea is thus an inherently hostile place to us in a way that the land is not. Thus, people can be shipwrecked, but not landwrecked.
    Thanks for that. Now, due to a collision in my hash tables, I've got a mental picture of a pinniped with an MP38 going all Herr Stamper on shipwrecked survivors.
    Wrong way round. The point is that while it’s a war crime to bomb a shipwreck, it would not be a war crime to “double tap” @DougSeal . (Sorry, Doug.)
    "The goddam cook's a SEAL??"
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,608
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Russia's 2026 budget has 40% of all spending for the military: https://theukrainianreview.info/russia-approves-2026-budget-40-of-spending-goes-to-military-ccd/

    A very marked increase. They are also running a deficit although, to be fair, it is considerably smaller than ours at 1.6% of GDP.

    Putin very clearly has absolutely no intention whatsoever of stopping this war.

    Russia started the war with essentially zero national debt, and it's currently able to borrow quite a lot from it's own population.

    However I think it's also experimenting with issuing Yuan-denominated debt, so that it can tap into funds from China (which isn't so keen on anything denominated in roubles).

    There's a lot of financial road left for Russia, even if Ukraine succeed in wrecking Russia's oil exports. Britain borrowed about 25-30% of GDP for each full year of WWI and WWII.

    The only quick end for the war is to lose it. If we want to avoid losing we have to get serious about winning.
    The last sentence is certainly true.

    And -ultimately- this requires Europe to grow a spine, and accept that DJT is not going to be happy, but he'll get over it.
    It requires leadership from Poland.

    So has Poland learned from its mistake in 1938 or not.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 287
    edited December 1
    bobbob said:

    OK so I read the Fingleton report. Not a classic. It’s so specific to the nuclear industry that the Starmers comments don’t make much sense. Fingletron’s intro that mentions “process over outcome using complex procedures as protection” and “lack of incentives aligned with the public interest” feel like are talking about a different document to the report and it’s recommendations which is really odd.

    I wonder what nuclear experts think of it.

    Not a nuclear expert by any stretch but I wonder if Starmer has looked at Hinckley point and the length of time to progress, and been advised to spread the load of energy infrastructure around more, and not put all eggs in the renewable basket. Saying that its a bit like commissioning submarines, you have to do it years in advance to plan for what they are going to do in 10 years time, then when they come on board, technology has moved onto the next thing and they are nearly obsolete.

    A change in tone definitely, civil service have been working in the background this year to free up planning and development mechanisms away from red tape, whilst keeping on top of environmental issues.

    Proof of pudding will be in the eating, but don't expect too much given the ongoing shambles in other areas of government. I also note the environmental funding proposals announced today are asking a fair bit of lifting from the private sector, maybe trying to guilt trip large companies into environmental obligations when they announce new construction developments?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 69,141
    Novara media have a video from the YourParty conference, chatting to various delegates (high and low born) and I think it is fascinating in that so many of them can't see why it doesn't make sense to have members who are also members of SWP or various communist splinter parties.

    They think it is normal to be in more than one party at once.

    https://novaramedia.com/category/video/video-report/
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,022
    Levelling up latest.

    Water bills in northern England could subsidise drier south under reforms
    https://www.ft.com/content/d1ef6e50-3b82-4e0b-b827-fe42545c87a9
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,692
    Richard Hughes of the OBR more than likely resigned after relations with the treasury imploded not just for the leak on budget day but for the productivity review which incensed Starmer and Reeves .

    The decision to conduct the review now after years of non-action under the Tories seems questionable. Even more so because it allowed Hunt to blow a hole in the finances with his NI cuts . Given growth for this year already beat the original OBR forecast by 50% it would have seemed more prudent to judge the Labour performance over a few years .

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,947

    MattW said:

    There was a discussion earlier re: planning and biodiversity constraints.

    I see the government is considering exempting most small developments from the Biodiversity Net Gain requirements:
    https://cieem.net/cieem-calls-on-members-to-help-defend-bng/

    Obviously the CIEEM [Chartered Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management] are against it, but whisper quietly that some of their members might be happy not to have to deal with such nonsense.

    Might reduce a bit of the red tape, although not for big developments.

    On the other hand, I think it will now be mandatory for national infrastructure projects. Swings and roundabouts...

    That has potential to unclog a lot of currently clogged up developments.

    I'm not sure on the scale of the upside.
    "This would exempt over 95% of current development projects from delivering net gain and effectively wipe out more than £50 million in the annual market value of BNG overnight, triggering a likely collapse."


    Our village is trying to refurbish an old village hall into 2 social houses (owned by a charity) for the elderly.

    They have everything in place but are being required to resubmit the BNG work at a cost of a further £10k (paid by the charity). The council has ruled that the proposed gardens for the house don’t count towards biodiversity net gains because they are gardens…
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 287

    MattW said:

    There was a discussion earlier re: planning and biodiversity constraints.

    I see the government is considering exempting most small developments from the Biodiversity Net Gain requirements:
    https://cieem.net/cieem-calls-on-members-to-help-defend-bng/

    Obviously the CIEEM [Chartered Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management] are against it, but whisper quietly that some of their members might be happy not to have to deal with such nonsense.

    Might reduce a bit of the red tape, although not for big developments.

    On the other hand, I think it will now be mandatory for national infrastructure projects. Swings and roundabouts...

    That has potential to unclog a lot of currently clogged up developments.

    I'm not sure on the scale of the upside.
    "This would exempt over 95% of current development projects from delivering net gain and effectively wipe out more than £50 million in the annual market value of BNG overnight, triggering a likely collapse."


    Our village is trying to refurbish an old village hall into 2 social houses (owned by a charity) for the elderly.

    They have everything in place but are being required to resubmit the BNG work at a cost of a further £10k (paid by the charity). The council has ruled that the proposed gardens for the house don’t count towards biodiversity net gains because they are gardens…
    Its this kind of nonsense that is killing worthwhile projects. The Council should be told they will put some Begonias on the roof but they will need to check them at their own expense
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,022
    YouTuber Mattias Krantz rescued an octopus from a fish market and taught him to play piano. What a duo.
    https://x.com/_fluxfeeds/status/1994273150369247350
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 155
    DoctorG said:

    bobbob said:

    OK so I read the Fingleton report. Not a classic. It’s so specific to the nuclear industry that the Starmers comments don’t make much sense. Fingletron’s intro that mentions “process over outcome using complex procedures as protection” and “lack of incentives aligned with the public interest” feel like are talking about a different document to the report and it’s recommendations which is really odd.

    I wonder what nuclear experts think of it.

    Not a nuclear expert by any stretch but I wonder if Starmer has looked at Hinckley point and the length of time to progress, and been advised to spread the load of energy infrastructure around more, and not put all eggs in the renewable basket. Saying that its a bit like commissioning submarines, you have to do it years in advance to plan for what they are going to do in 10 years time, then when they come on board, technology has moved onto the next thing and they are nearly obsolete.

    A change in tone definitely, civil service have been working in the background this year to free up planning and development mechanisms away from red tape, whilst keeping on top of environmental issues.

    Proof of pudding will be in the eating, but don't expect too much given the ongoing shambles in other areas of government. I also note the environmental funding proposals announced today are asking a fair bit of lifting from the private sector, maybe trying to guilt trip large companies into environmental obligations when they announce new construction developments?
    IMO Doubling down on nuclear after the Hinckley point disaster shows how fixed and closed their mindset is and they refuse to challenge their own out dated assumptions. Just like everything else they can’t imagine anything else so they jus5 fiddle around the edges. Doubt it helps that Starmer is of early retirement age

    One of the opening lines is “ Nuclear technology is essential to the UK’s future”. Not at at £1.40mwh it shouldn’t be !

    Hinckley point c should be a national scandal
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,507
    bobbob said:

    DoctorG said:

    bobbob said:

    OK so I read the Fingleton report. Not a classic. It’s so specific to the nuclear industry that the Starmers comments don’t make much sense. Fingletron’s intro that mentions “process over outcome using complex procedures as protection” and “lack of incentives aligned with the public interest” feel like are talking about a different document to the report and it’s recommendations which is really odd.

    I wonder what nuclear experts think of it.

    Not a nuclear expert by any stretch but I wonder if Starmer has looked at Hinckley point and the length of time to progress, and been advised to spread the load of energy infrastructure around more, and not put all eggs in the renewable basket. Saying that its a bit like commissioning submarines, you have to do it years in advance to plan for what they are going to do in 10 years time, then when they come on board, technology has moved onto the next thing and they are nearly obsolete.

    A change in tone definitely, civil service have been working in the background this year to free up planning and development mechanisms away from red tape, whilst keeping on top of environmental issues.

    Proof of pudding will be in the eating, but don't expect too much given the ongoing shambles in other areas of government. I also note the environmental funding proposals announced today are asking a fair bit of lifting from the private sector, maybe trying to guilt trip large companies into environmental obligations when they announce new construction developments?
    IMO Doubling down on nuclear after the Hinckley point disaster shows how fixed and closed their mindset is and they refuse to challenge their own out dated assumptions. Just like everything else they can’t imagine anything else so they jus5 fiddle around the edges. Doubt it helps that Starmer is of early retirement age

    One of the opening lines is “ Nuclear technology is essential to the UK’s future”. Not at at £1.40mwh it shouldn’t be !

    Hinckley point c should be a national scandal
    Actually, if Hinkley Point C was able to generate power at GBP1.40 per Megawatt Hour, we would be in heaven.

    Sadly, your numbers are off by two orders of magnitude.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,608

    Novara media have a video from the YourParty conference, chatting to various delegates (high and low born) and I think it is fascinating in that so many of them can't see why it doesn't make sense to have members who are also members of SWP or various communist splinter parties.

    They think it is normal to be in more than one party at once.

    https://novaramedia.com/category/video/video-report/

    Indeed. Why is it strange? Parties have overlapping policies and beliefs.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 287
    bobbob said:

    DoctorG said:

    bobbob said:

    OK so I read the Fingleton report. Not a classic. It’s so specific to the nuclear industry that the Starmers comments don’t make much sense. Fingletron’s intro that mentions “process over outcome using complex procedures as protection” and “lack of incentives aligned with the public interest” feel like are talking about a different document to the report and it’s recommendations which is really odd.

    I wonder what nuclear experts think of it.

    Not a nuclear expert by any stretch but I wonder if Starmer has looked at Hinckley point and the length of time to progress, and been advised to spread the load of energy infrastructure around more, and not put all eggs in the renewable basket. Saying that its a bit like commissioning submarines, you have to do it years in advance to plan for what they are going to do in 10 years time, then when they come on board, technology has moved onto the next thing and they are nearly obsolete.

    A change in tone definitely, civil service have been working in the background this year to free up planning and development mechanisms away from red tape, whilst keeping on top of environmental issues.

    Proof of pudding will be in the eating, but don't expect too much given the ongoing shambles in other areas of government. I also note the environmental funding proposals announced today are asking a fair bit of lifting from the private sector, maybe trying to guilt trip large companies into environmental obligations when they announce new construction developments?
    IMO Doubling down on nuclear after the Hinckley point disaster shows how fixed and closed their mindset is and they refuse to challenge their own out dated assumptions. Just like everything else they can’t imagine anything else so they jus5 fiddle around the edges. Doubt it helps that Starmer is of early retirement age

    One of the opening lines is “ Nuclear technology is essential to the UK’s future”. Not at at £1.40mwh it shouldn’t be !

    Hinckley point c should be a national scandal
    I'm guessing we will hear a lot more on the cost when the final bill is drawn up. Maybe several smaller nuclear plants would have been more cost effective. Too late now

    Not sure who is pushing the nuclear narrative, potentially Miliband? He's not very fond of gas (ironic given how much politicians spout hot air)

    In case anyone is wondering the Environment Improvement plan is here:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/environmental-improvement-plan-2025/environmental-improvement-plan-eip-2025

    Be warned, there is a lot of reading
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,666

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    What we are noticing in the hospital is a lot of angry white Gen X men who reject treatment, lose their rag at the staff, miss follow up appointments etc. It isn't just teenagers being destroyed by Social Media.

    Still its a free country, and their funeral. Sometimes literally.
    Talking of missed appointments - with all the attempts at getting IT to follow through in the NHS, why haven't they sorted out adding appointments to calendars, via the NHS app & the texts sent out? Complete with alerts and travel directions?

    If it reduced the missed appointments by 10%.....
    I have to email in my blood pressure readings to my GP (which was an innovation in itself). Sometimes I get a reply. Which is blank. Maybe I need to do something. Maybe not. But I guess it's cheaper than a fax.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,666

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    "Clearly something has gone wrong but what?" is my new motto.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,762
    Foxy said:

    Hegseth is finished.

    I doubt he'll make the weekend.


    I am not so sure. First time around Trump lost people almost every month.

    This time around it seems no stupidity, corruption or incompetence gets a sacking.
    Yes, the GOP is far more supine than last time (not that they were massively riotus or anything), and far more willing to contemplate (nearly) any act he directs them to, so less is called out in the first place.

    Everything has limits though.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 155

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    Break down of the traditional family unit and communities imo.


  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 5,005
    Nigelb said:

    YouTuber Mattias Krantz rescued an octopus from a fish market and taught him to play piano. What a duo.
    https://x.com/_fluxfeeds/status/1994273150369247350

    If you enjoyed this, you might like the Netflix documentary 'My Octopus Teacher', a surprisingly emotional watch.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,762
    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Didn't they come up with creative ways of counting casualties (eg any adult male was not counted as a civilian) to increase the 'success' ratio?

    In any case, whilst every nation commits crimes and does not follow it's own rules when it comes to violent acts from time to time, it still says a lot about when they do it, how often, and how they react when it is discovered.
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 155
    bobbob said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    Break down of the traditional family unit and communities imo.


    To expand on it…

    Put it all together and it all points to socialisation

    Loss of traditional families and communities and Covid and screens and social media all cause less socialisation

    Lots of different factors causing less socialisation which manifests as worse outcomes in different ways
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 99,762
    As a non-Christian this tweet baffles me a bit. Reminds of an old story about a pastor upset that quoting the teachings of Jesus was criticised by his congregation as liberal talking points.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,976
    edited 12:13AM

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    Neurodivergent (we are all neurodiverse) people haven't shot up.
    Our understanding of what that is has broadened and its effects have grown exponentially.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,664
    edited 12:20AM
    The average age of homicide victims in London so far this year is 44, which is around 8 or 9 years older than the median age in the capital.

    https://www.murdermap.co.uk/victims/murders-london-2025-total-how-many/

    This seems a bit odd to me. One would have perhaps expected the average age of both victims and perpetrators to be in the 18-30 or 18-35 category. But I haven't looked at previous years so can't say how unusual this is.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,976

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The children left unable to sit up straight by social media: 'Deeply alarming' number suffer anxiety and behavioural problems, report warns"

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15341659/Scale-social-media-use-pre-school-children-deeply-alarming-nearly-1-million-using-apps-left-unable-sit-straight-suffering-anxiety-behavioural-problems-report-warns.html

    Why aren't we banning it like Australia?

    It slightly concerns me that we might be confounding social media effects with general screen use and also with Covid. Clearly something has gone wrong but what? There seem to be more road rage incidents, for example, and even air rage. Surely that is not because 6-year-olds have Smartphones, or because schools closed during the second lockdown. As President Trump and RFKjr have noted, neurodivergence has shot up. SEND diagnoses are bankrupting councils. We urgently need more research and less airing of prejudices.
    Two reasons:
    1) Anecdotally, there was a spike in SEN kids as tge cohort who were babies during lockdown entered the school system. That should be a blip.
    2) More long term, we are much much bettet than we used to be at keepinf very premature babies alive. Many of these go on to have very challenging needs.
    3) We have been better at diagnosing issues that would have in the past been dismissed as normal/naughty/whatever.
    4) And could be female.
    5) And that it is not only possible, but very common to have both ASD and ADHD. So only pure ASD and pure ADHD were ever previously diagnosed, as the symptoms counteract each other in the much more prevalent AuDHDers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,375

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    We are land creatures, Luckyguy1983. (Well, except for DougSeal.) The sea is thus an inherently hostile place to us in a way that the land is not. Thus, people can be shipwrecked, but not landwrecked.
    Thanks for that. Now, due to a collision in my hash tables, I've got a mental picture of a pinniped with an MP38 going all Herr Stamper on shipwrecked survivors.
    Wrong way round. The point is that while it’s a war crime to bomb a shipwreck, it would not be a war crime to “double tap” @DougSeal . (Sorry, Doug.)
    It's extremely wicked to do either. However, I don't really see doing it at sea as a sign of greater moral turpitude. At sea, it is designed to finish off the survivors. On land, it is designed to do the same thing, with a few more rescuers to boot, thus also deterring any future rescue attempts after similar attacks. In many ways it is worse.

    As I said, I'm not a supporter of either practice, but I do question the moral outrage at this act, from Democrat Senators and PBers alike, when someone they admire used to do it on land as if it were going out of fashion, to very little response here. Not no response, I think it was discussed. But not this.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,664
    Cyclefree said:

    There will be no justice in this case.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/police-inquiry-post-office-horizon-3rl23psql

    "Police inquiry into Post Office and Horizon may run out of cash
    Officers have told victims there will have to be ‘tough decisions’ on Operation Olympos despite the number of criminal suspects doubling to eight"

    There never is. The British state is like an abuser who gets away with years of abuse but is never held properly accountable: it is untrustworthy, incompetent, malicious and unwilling / incapable of change, no matter what promises it makes or how many apologies are dragged out of it. We have a Potemkin justice system. And the inquiry reports lead to little more than a lot of bad headlines for a few days but no real change.

    There is absolutely no point any more to any of it.

    If there's one thing that ought to be provided with enough funds, this is surely it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,070
    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Obama used to work from a list of identified, verified targets, put up for authorisation by the organs of the state.

    I think it was on or over the edge, but it's a world different from random boats that cannot be what Hegseth claims they are, and especially when no supporting evidence is presented.

    Hegseth is closer to My Lai imo.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,976
    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Obama used to work from a list of identified, verified targets, put up for authorisation by the organs of the state.

    I think it was on or over the edge, but it's a world different from random boats that cannot be what Hegseth claims they are, and especially when no supporting evidence is presented.

    Hegseth is closer to My Lai imo.

    That's quite libellous.
    Calley and his men at My Lai had the guts and decency to put on uniforms and do it face-to-face.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,833
    edited 12:42AM
    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Obama used to work from a list of identified, verified targets, put up for authorisation by the organs of the state.

    I think it was on or over the edge, but it's a world different from random boats that cannot be what Hegseth claims they are, and especially when no supporting evidence is presented.

    Hegseth is closer to My Lai imo.

    I don't think they were all verified. IMO the Trump admin is bringing the GWOT methodology to the Americas. The difference is journalistic access when compared to Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, West Africa. Plenty of atrocities have been carried out in the great extrajudicial murder game. The papers care more if South Americans are being disintegrated.

    https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-kill-chain/
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,070

    MattW said:

    There was a discussion earlier re: planning and biodiversity constraints.

    I see the government is considering exempting most small developments from the Biodiversity Net Gain requirements:
    https://cieem.net/cieem-calls-on-members-to-help-defend-bng/

    Obviously the CIEEM [Chartered Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management] are against it, but whisper quietly that some of their members might be happy not to have to deal with such nonsense.

    Might reduce a bit of the red tape, although not for big developments.

    On the other hand, I think it will now be mandatory for national infrastructure projects. Swings and roundabouts...

    That has potential to unclog a lot of currently clogged up developments.

    I'm not sure on the scale of the upside.
    "This would exempt over 95% of current development projects from delivering net gain and effectively wipe out more than £50 million in the annual market value of BNG overnight, triggering a likely collapse."


    I do not know what that means (writing as a moderator on the UK's main self-build forum, and a member of Green Building forums for more than 2 decades, who has actually done adjacent research projects in a past career!).

    Nor do I know what "£50m of biodiversity net gain" means (admittedly not my specialist area) - does that relate to some assessed value of the net gain, or resultant consultancy for CIEEM members? Nor do I know what they are concerned will collapse - could be Biodiversity Protected, or the number of assessment reports done by their members.

    But I note they are advocating for the "de minimums" exemption to be moved from the current 25sqm (which exempts a bus stop maybe) to 0.1Ha (roughly 2-3 houses ie windfall single builds) rather than the proposed 0.5Ha (roughly 10-15 houses).

    So in the CIEEM proposal they want exemptions to be moved from 5% to 66% of projects, rather than from 5% to 95%.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,070
    edited 12:42AM

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Obama used to work from a list of identified, verified targets, put up for authorisation by the organs of the state.

    I think it was on or over the edge, but it's a world different from random boats that cannot be what Hegseth claims they are, and especially when no supporting evidence is presented.

    Hegseth is closer to My Lai imo.

    I don't think they were all verified. IMO the Trump admin is bringing the GWOT methodology to the Americas. The difference is journalistic access when compared to Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, West Africa. Plenty of atrocities have been carried out in the great extrajudicial murder game the papers care more if South Americans are being disintegrated.

    https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-kill-chain/
    The vivid image I recall is reports of Obama looking through lists of potential attacks in the White House every day, and effectively saying "that one".

    Whilst it is taking responsibility, it also gives me the heebie-jeebies.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,833
    edited 12:43AM
    kle4 said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Didn't they come up with creative ways of counting casualties (eg any adult male was not counted as a civilian) to increase the 'success' ratio?

    In any case, whilst every nation commits crimes and does not follow it's own rules when it comes to violent acts from time to time, it still says a lot about when they do it, how often, and how they react when it is discovered.
    Yes I think its a similar methodology to the Israelis: men between 16-65 being classified as combatants till proved otherwise.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,070
    edited 12:50AM
    dixiedean said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Obama used to work from a list of identified, verified targets, put up for authorisation by the organs of the state.

    I think it was on or over the edge, but it's a world different from random boats that cannot be what Hegseth claims they are, and especially when no supporting evidence is presented.

    Hegseth is closer to My Lai imo.

    That's quite libellous.
    Calley and his men at My Lai had the guts and decency to put on uniforms and do it face-to-face.
    But they also all made "just following orders" excuses * of which the vast majority were accepted (in defiance or ignorance of the Nuremburg precedent), and Calley was the only one punished, sentenced to life, was commuted Trump-style by Nixon, and served a house arrest sentence for 3.5 years only.

    The big thing imo is that it is about the USA deciding that the lives of people not from the USA are worthless. IMO that's one of the cancers at the heart of the entire USA worldview, and has been for centuries.

    * "You did not correctly understand your orders when you machine gunned that crowd of mothers and babies, so we will not hold you responsible for what you did". Repeat when the live ones in the piles of casualties in a ditch were shot again to make sure.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,833
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Obama used to work from a list of identified, verified targets, put up for authorisation by the organs of the state.

    I think it was on or over the edge, but it's a world different from random boats that cannot be what Hegseth claims they are, and especially when no supporting evidence is presented.

    Hegseth is closer to My Lai imo.

    I don't think they were all verified. IMO the Trump admin is bringing the GWOT methodology to the Americas. The difference is journalistic access when compared to Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, West Africa. Plenty of atrocities have been carried out in the great extrajudicial murder game the papers care more if South Americans are being disintegrated.

    https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-kill-chain/
    The vivid image I recall is reports of Obama looking through lists of potential attacks in the White House every day, and effectively saying "that one".

    Whilst it is taking responsibility, it also gives me the heebie-jeebies.
    Having read The Fort Bragg Cartel, I suspect the president is now rarely involved in most the killing. In Afghanistan/Iraq the American 'operators' were targeting buildings for 'clearing' then they'd scrape up any intelligence and go out the next night, kill the implicated men and repeat. JSOC seem to be quite an autonomous bunch.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,070
    edited 12:52AM

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Obama used to work from a list of identified, verified targets, put up for authorisation by the organs of the state.

    I think it was on or over the edge, but it's a world different from random boats that cannot be what Hegseth claims they are, and especially when no supporting evidence is presented.

    Hegseth is closer to My Lai imo.

    I don't think they were all verified. IMO the Trump admin is bringing the GWOT methodology to the Americas. The difference is journalistic access when compared to Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, West Africa. Plenty of atrocities have been carried out in the great extrajudicial murder game the papers care more if South Americans are being disintegrated.

    https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-kill-chain/
    The vivid image I recall is reports of Obama looking through lists of potential attacks in the White House every day, and effectively saying "that one".

    Whilst it is taking responsibility, it also gives me the heebie-jeebies.
    Having read The Fort Bragg Cartel, I suspect the president is now rarely involved in most the killing. In Afghanistan/Iraq the American 'operators' were targeting buildings for 'clearing' then they'd scrape up any intelligence and go out the next night, kill the implicated men and repeat. JSOC seem to be quite an autonomous bunch.
    There is also in the same bracket current reports about killings of civilians / prisoners in Afghanistan by the SAS, and cover ups thereof.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 56,530
    https://x.com/Sec_Noem/status/1995642101779124476

    I just met with the President.

    I am recommending a full travel ban on every damn country that's been flooding our nation with killers, leeches, and entitlement junkies.

    Our forefathers built this nation on blood, sweat, and the unyielding love of freedom—not for foreign invaders to slaughter our heroes, suck dry our hard-earned tax dollars, or snatch the benefits owed to AMERICANS.

    WE DON'T WANT THEM. NOT ONE.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,070
    I guess the other Hegseth parallel is the small number of cases of WW2 submarine attack survivors being machine gunned in WW2.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,507

    https://x.com/Sec_Noem/status/1995642101779124476

    I just met with the President.

    I am recommending a full travel ban on every damn country that's been flooding our nation with killers, leeches, and entitlement junkies.

    Our forefathers built this nation on blood, sweat, and the unyielding love of freedom—not for foreign invaders to slaughter our heroes, suck dry our hard-earned tax dollars, or snatch the benefits owed to AMERICANS.

    WE DON'T WANT THEM. NOT ONE.

    Thank God for nuance.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,532
    edited 1:20AM
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    There was a discussion earlier re: planning and biodiversity constraints.

    I see the government is considering exempting most small developments from the Biodiversity Net Gain requirements:
    https://cieem.net/cieem-calls-on-members-to-help-defend-bng/

    Obviously the CIEEM [Chartered Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management] are against it, but whisper quietly that some of their members might be happy not to have to deal with such nonsense.

    Might reduce a bit of the red tape, although not for big developments.

    On the other hand, I think it will now be mandatory for national infrastructure projects. Swings and roundabouts...

    That has potential to unclog a lot of currently clogged up developments.

    I'm not sure on the scale of the upside.
    "This would exempt over 95% of current development projects from delivering net gain and effectively wipe out more than £50 million in the annual market value of BNG overnight, triggering a likely collapse."


    I do not know what that means (writing as a moderator on the UK's main self-build forum, and a member of Green Building forums for more than 2 decades, who has actually done adjacent research projects in a past career!).

    Nor do I know what "£50m of biodiversity net gain" means (admittedly not my specialist area) - does that relate to some assessed value of the net gain, or resultant consultancy for CIEEM members? Nor do I know what they are concerned will collapse - could be Biodiversity Protected, or the number of assessment reports done by their members.

    But I note they are advocating for the "de minimums" exemption to be moved from the current 25sqm (which exempts a bus stop maybe) to 0.1Ha (roughly 2-3 houses ie windfall single builds) rather than the proposed 0.5Ha (roughly 10-15 houses).

    So in the CIEEM proposal they want exemptions to be moved from 5% to 66% of projects, rather than from 5% to 95%.
    Landowners are currently being encouraged to submit land for the provision of BNG credits where it can be improved by management. A credit is some kind of multiplication of how important a habitat is, how much it is being improved (or degraded, for negative credits), and how much there is of it.

    These credits are sold to developers where there is no means to gain enough credits to counteract the loss on-site.

    There is a big encouragement to provide habitat similar to those which are being lost due to how the rules work. Some habitats are quite rare, and thus attract a premium price for 'credits'. One of the rare habitats, oddly enough, is brownfield mosaics, which are often very diverse.
    https://www.gov.uk/guidance/statutory-biodiversity-credit-prices

    Mrs Flatlander got cornered into doing some work for a brownfield site which wants to apply to become such a 'habitat bank' as it is termed. We calculated that it would be worth roughly £5m in credits, although given that would have to cover 30 years of management that might not turn out to be terribly profitable.

    Small sites are the hardest to cover on site, particularly as larger developments are often on agricultural land which has little habitat value, so this will indeed collapse the market.

    I think she'd better put her invoice in pronto.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,664
    "My constituency is racially segregated, says pro-Gaza MP

    Adnan Hussain said voters in Lancashire were often living ‘parallel lives’ and warned multiculturalism has been reduced to ‘photo ops’" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/08/my-constituency-is-racially-segregated-mp-adnan-hussain/

    Article is slightly old, from September.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,738
    rcs1000 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I don't expect it to happen, but the Supreme Court could effectively end Trump 2.0 in short order.

    All of his revenge court cases are trash.

    His drug boat killings are illegal.

    They could rule against tariffs and that would be pretty much it.

    If they rule against tariffs, then that is good for the US economy, *and* he gets to blame the Supreme Court for prohibiting him from sending $2,000 cheques to voters just before the midterms.
    Of course, all the Supreme Court Justices are Biden appointees.

    Oh.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 5,532
    edited 1:40AM

    MattW said:

    There was a discussion earlier re: planning and biodiversity constraints.

    I see the government is considering exempting most small developments from the Biodiversity Net Gain requirements:
    https://cieem.net/cieem-calls-on-members-to-help-defend-bng/

    Obviously the CIEEM [Chartered Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management] are against it, but whisper quietly that some of their members might be happy not to have to deal with such nonsense.

    Might reduce a bit of the red tape, although not for big developments.

    On the other hand, I think it will now be mandatory for national infrastructure projects. Swings and roundabouts...

    That has potential to unclog a lot of currently clogged up developments.

    I'm not sure on the scale of the upside.
    "This would exempt over 95% of current development projects from delivering net gain and effectively wipe out more than £50 million in the annual market value of BNG overnight, triggering a likely collapse."


    Our village is trying to refurbish an old village hall into 2 social houses (owned by a charity) for the elderly.

    They have everything in place but are being required to resubmit the BNG work at a cost of a further £10k (paid by the charity). The council has ruled that the proposed gardens for the house don’t count towards biodiversity net gains because they are gardens…
    Gardens don't count because there's no control over what happens to them once the house is occupied.

    Is the £10k the off-site credit cost or the report cost? That seems excessive for a small site.

    The basic idea of BNG was a good one but the bureaucracy is eating all the money and leaving rather less for the biodiversity.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 31,070

    MattW said:

    There was a discussion earlier re: planning and biodiversity constraints.

    I see the government is considering exempting most small developments from the Biodiversity Net Gain requirements:
    https://cieem.net/cieem-calls-on-members-to-help-defend-bng/

    Obviously the CIEEM [Chartered Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management] are against it, but whisper quietly that some of their members might be happy not to have to deal with such nonsense.

    Might reduce a bit of the red tape, although not for big developments.

    On the other hand, I think it will now be mandatory for national infrastructure projects. Swings and roundabouts...

    That has potential to unclog a lot of currently clogged up developments.

    I'm not sure on the scale of the upside.
    "This would exempt over 95% of current development projects from delivering net gain and effectively wipe out more than £50 million in the annual market value of BNG overnight, triggering a likely collapse."


    Our village is trying to refurbish an old village hall into 2 social houses (owned by a charity) for the elderly.

    They have everything in place but are being required to resubmit the BNG work at a cost of a further £10k (paid by the charity). The council has ruled that the proposed gardens for the house don’t count towards biodiversity net gains because they are gardens…
    Gardens don't count because there's no control over what happens to them once the house is occupied.

    Is the £10k the off-site credit cost or the report cost? That seems excessive for a small site.

    The basic idea of BNG was a good one but the bureaucracy is eating all the money and leaving rather less for the biodiversity.
    So this may at root be a worthwhile simplification?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,234
    Good morning, fellow satisfied comrades in our glorious People's Republic.

    Soon, Commissar Lammy will unveil his revolutionary new approach to justice, sweeping away the despicable wreckers and counter-revolutionaries that comprise juries: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg1q62jmv0o

    One can only hope that soon the Great Helmsman himself will announce a further financial efficiency by ending the needless, costly, and repetitive nonsense of 'elections'.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,176
    kle4 said:

    As a non-Christian this tweet baffles me a bit. Reminds of an old story about a pastor upset that quoting the teachings of Jesus was criticised by his congregation as liberal talking points.

    Some of the Popes recent comments have caused a fair amount of cognitive dissonance amongst MAGA supporting Catholics, for example:


  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,947

    MattW said:

    There was a discussion earlier re: planning and biodiversity constraints.

    I see the government is considering exempting most small developments from the Biodiversity Net Gain requirements:
    https://cieem.net/cieem-calls-on-members-to-help-defend-bng/

    Obviously the CIEEM [Chartered Institute of Ecology and Environmental Management] are against it, but whisper quietly that some of their members might be happy not to have to deal with such nonsense.

    Might reduce a bit of the red tape, although not for big developments.

    On the other hand, I think it will now be mandatory for national infrastructure projects. Swings and roundabouts...

    That has potential to unclog a lot of currently clogged up developments.

    I'm not sure on the scale of the upside.
    "This would exempt over 95% of current development projects from delivering net gain and effectively wipe out more than £50 million in the annual market value of BNG overnight, triggering a likely collapse."


    Our village is trying to refurbish an old village hall into 2 social houses (owned by a charity) for the elderly.

    They have everything in place but are being required to resubmit the BNG work at a cost of a further £10k (paid by the charity). The council has ruled that the proposed gardens for the house don’t count towards biodiversity net gains because they are gardens…
    Gardens don't count because there's no control over what happens to them once the house is occupied.

    Is the £10k the off-site credit cost or the report cost? That seems excessive for a small site.

    The basic idea of BNG was a good one but the bureaucracy is eating all the money and leaving rather less for the biodiversity.
    I wouldn’t focus on the £10k specifically as that was an offhand figure over lunch. It’s more that knocking down an old build to build 2 new social houses on the same footprint has now taken 4 years and still no progress despite 10s of thousands of reports for the local council…

    The fundamental question though is there is an existing unused building. It will be replaced by 2 used buildings. Why do you need to prove BNG - it’s not a greenfield build
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,022

    MattW said:

    Eabhal said:

    I don't think I quite understand the fuss about this double tap attack on the boat. Wasn't this Obama's favourite thing to do to? Or was that better because it was on land?

    Yes, and it's seen as one of the great flaws in Obama's presidency, much criticised at the time.

    I've seen this excuse put up a few times but comparing it to something that was wrong and probably illegal kinda isn't the most effective defence. Indeed Obama actually reported his strikes and their civilian casualties - we have no idea how many Trump is doing, or to whom, because he cancelled that policy.
    Obama used to work from a list of identified, verified targets, put up for authorisation by the organs of the state.

    I think it was on or over the edge, but it's a world different from random boats that cannot be what Hegseth claims they are, and especially when no supporting evidence is presented.

    Hegseth is closer to My Lai imo.

    I don't think they were all verified. IMO the Trump admin is bringing the GWOT methodology to the Americas. The difference is journalistic access when compared to Syria, Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, West Africa. Plenty of atrocities have been carried out in the great extrajudicial murder game. The papers care more if South Americans are being disintegrated.

    https://theintercept.com/drone-papers/the-kill-chain/
    The difference is rather more than that, from a political and practical point of view.
    The Obama era war crimes (and that, I think, is probably what they were, though they will never be litigated) were conducted under the AUMF - under a state of official war.

    The current crimes are conducted under what is some sort of police operation, without Congressional approval, conducted under presidential whim.

    That's a great deal closer to allowing the President to kill whomever he wants, wherever he wants, whenever he wants.

    They are also the use of the regular military, rather than a specialist counter-terrorism branch.

    The moral difference arguably isn't that great. The difference in their implications is very large.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,176
    Andy_JS said:

    "My constituency is racially segregated, says pro-Gaza MP

    Adnan Hussain said voters in Lancashire were often living ‘parallel lives’ and warned multiculturalism has been reduced to ‘photo ops’" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/08/my-constituency-is-racially-segregated-mp-adnan-hussain/

    Article is slightly old, from September.

    Commentators often rather lazily stereotype the Independents elected last summer as Islamist fanatics, while often their views are much more nuanced. Adnan Hussain sounds very much more interesting, as indeed is Shockat Adam in Leicester.
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 314
    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "My constituency is racially segregated, says pro-Gaza MP

    Adnan Hussain said voters in Lancashire were often living ‘parallel lives’ and warned multiculturalism has been reduced to ‘photo ops’" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/08/my-constituency-is-racially-segregated-mp-adnan-hussain/

    Article is slightly old, from September.

    Commentators often rather lazily stereotype the Independents elected last summer as Islamist fanatics, while often their views are much more nuanced. Adnan Hussain sounds very much more interesting, as indeed is Shockat Adam in Leicester.
    “I know they won an election saying they wanted to exterminate all the Jews and invade the Sudetenland, but you should see their more nuanced views on social care and their progressive take on net zero”.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,251

    https://x.com/Sec_Noem/status/1995642101779124476

    I just met with the President.

    I am recommending a full travel ban on every damn country that's been flooding our nation with killers, leeches, and entitlement junkies.

    Our forefathers built this nation on blood, sweat, and the unyielding love of freedom—not for foreign invaders to slaughter our heroes, suck dry our hard-earned tax dollars, or snatch the benefits owed to AMERICANS.

    WE DON'T WANT THEM. NOT ONE.

    Other than Honduran ex-presidents with deep pockets, of course.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,176

    Foxy said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "My constituency is racially segregated, says pro-Gaza MP

    Adnan Hussain said voters in Lancashire were often living ‘parallel lives’ and warned multiculturalism has been reduced to ‘photo ops’" (£)

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/08/my-constituency-is-racially-segregated-mp-adnan-hussain/

    Article is slightly old, from September.

    Commentators often rather lazily stereotype the Independents elected last summer as Islamist fanatics, while often their views are much more nuanced. Adnan Hussain sounds very much more interesting, as indeed is Shockat Adam in Leicester.
    “I know they won an election saying they wanted to exterminate all the Jews and invade the Sudetenland, but you should see their more nuanced views on social care and their progressive take on net zero”.
    Yes, thats exactly the sort of lazy stereotyping that we get.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 84,022
    Luckyguy makes a rare good point, for once, though it's not the point he thinks it is.

    It's not that Obama having done something makes it OK; it's that if something is morally and legally outrageous, we should condemn the act every bit as much when it's someone we approve of doing it, as when it's someone we despise.
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 314
    kle4 said:

    As a non-Christian this tweet baffles me a bit. Reminds of an old story about a pastor upset that quoting the teachings of Jesus was criticised by his congregation as liberal talking points.

    There is such a thing as toxic empathy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,251
    Nigelb said:

    Luckyguy makes a rare good point, for once, though it's not the point he thinks it is.

    It's not that Obama having done something makes it OK; it's that if something is morally and legally outrageous, we should condemn the act every bit as much when it's someone we approve of doing it, as when it's someone we despise.

    The other (ironic) point is that one of the few persuasive reasons to vote for Trump is he promised to end the policeman of the world mentality that led to the disastrous foreign policy ventures of Bush Jr and Obama.

    And here is, going after several of his own as though he’s Dubya on crack.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,754
    Nigelb said:

    Luckyguy makes a rare good point, for once, though it's not the point he thinks it is.

    It's not that Obama having done something makes it OK; it's that if something is morally and legally outrageous, we should condemn the act every bit as much when it's someone we approve of doing it, as when it's someone we despise.

    We should also remember the principle of precedence and that when someone we might approve of does something, then that could greenlight someone we despise doing similar.

    And if you tolerate this, then your children will be next.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 54,176
    There was a really good piece on C4 news last night on a scam centre liberated by Karen rebels on the Myanmar/Thai border, but it really looks a much more extensive industry than that. 30-40% of the Cambodian and Laotian economies, hundreds of thousands of workers, and corrupt governments involved.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/dec/02/scam-state-multi-billion-dollar-industry-south-east-asia?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,947
    Nigelb said:

    Luckyguy makes a rare good point, for once, though it's not the point he thinks it is.

    It's not that Obama having done something makes it OK; it's that if something is morally and legally outrageous, we should condemn the act every bit as much when it's someone we approve of doing it, as when it's someone we despise.

    I agree, although (AIUI) Obama’s were timed launches - where there might be a reasonable expectation of survivor casualties - vs circling back, identifying survivors and deliberately targeting them
Sign In or Register to comment.