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Ed Miliband has the support to become Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,807
edited 6:56AM in General
Ed Miliband has the support to become Prime Minister – politicalbetting.com

If you’re not mentally prepared for the possibility of Ed Miliband becoming Prime Minister then you should be. My logic since September 2024 when I tipped him at 100/1 was that he was very popular with Labour members who have the final say on who becomes Labour leader.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,862
    It will be intriguing to see which pb-er comes up with the best morning rebuttyal of this article.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,852
    One of the first posts I ever read on PB, but related to EdM's brother:

    Milibandwagon - one one-thousandth of a bandwagon.

    Does the same apply here?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,066
    Weird amid bland

    One of my favourite politician anagrams..
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,555
    To give him a rare credit, he appears positive and receptive to the nuclear energy report from yesterday.

    https://x.com/ed_miliband/status/1992952570042839529

    Now obviously the proof is in the pudding, but if he can reform the domestic nuclear industry that will count in his favour.

    Currently the UK has some of the world’s most expensive domestic and commercial energy, and there’s a very clear link between low energy prices and economic growth.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,278
    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740
    Sandpit said:

    To give him a rare credit, he appears positive and receptive to the nuclear energy report from yesterday.

    https://x.com/ed_miliband/status/1992952570042839529

    Now obviously the proof is in the pudding, but if he can reform the domestic nuclear industry that will count in his favour.

    Currently the UK has some of the world’s most expensive domestic and commercial energy, and there’s a very clear link between low energy prices and economic growth.

    While the report is notably good, and unusually, for something so sensible, has been welcomed by the government, it's unlikely to make much difference to electricity prices this decade.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,591
    Come on TSE - you could have used the bacon sarnie photo in the header…..
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707
    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,438

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    And yet the public support his policies and disagree with the lying Reformers and cosplaying Tories who try and turn reality on its head...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,668

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740
    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,553

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    He’s quite condescending to the interviewer who clearly knows his stuff.

    It’s poor from Miliband but he’s a zealot and is he any worse than any of the rest of them. We are just ruled by very mediocre politicians.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,190
    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A Russian investigation following Reform's Gill situation would be legitimate (and, for the Government, a convenient way to kick Reform).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,952
    Thoughts and prayers for the ghost of Alan Clark.

    We all remember how the art historian left a golden legacy for Gordon Brown

    Slight mix up in the latest Guardian review...



    https://x.com/HackBlackburn/status/1993223843083960498

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,349

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,190
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx9n5p7v7o

    "Has Britain's budget watchdog become too all-powerful?"

    ...

    'Too' all-powerful? It's an absolute, you can't qualify it. This is as bad as when people say 'quite unique', as if something can be 'slightly one of a kind'.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    He doesn't understand basic economics.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,952

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    He doesn't understand basic economics.
    It says a lot about the University of Oxford and that degree they offer in Politics, Philosophy, and ECONOMICS.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,555
    edited 7:50AM
    Nigelb said:

    Sandpit said:

    To give him a rare credit, he appears positive and receptive to the nuclear energy report from yesterday.

    https://x.com/ed_miliband/status/1992952570042839529

    Now obviously the proof is in the pudding, but if he can reform the domestic nuclear industry that will count in his favour.

    Currently the UK has some of the world’s most expensive domestic and commercial energy, and there’s a very clear link between low energy prices and economic growth.

    While the report is notably good, and unusually, for something so sensible, has been welcomed by the government, it's unlikely to make much difference to electricity prices this decade.
    Indeed these things take time, but businesses plan for the medium and long term so it’s good to see government at least signalling that they wish to move to lower energy prices, which is a welcome departure from Miliband’s usual rhetoric about carbon targets being a higher priority than cheap energy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A Russian investigation following Reform's Gill situation would be legitimate (and, for the Government, a convenient way to kick Reform).
    A reminder from a few years back.

    Brexit party MEPs vote against plans to tackle Russian propaganda
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/10/brexit-party-meps-vote-against-measure-to-combat-russian-propaganda
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,190
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    Vielleicht. The counter-factual of 52% Remain is fascinating to consider, but the notion it'd be lovely and wonderful might be a tiny bit optimistic.

    There would've been relief but also concern by pro-EU types, leading to a drive by the Lib Dems (and Labour, once Corbyn was gone?) to more fully embed us via the euro and other means. And an unspoken commitment to never, ever, let the Great Unwashed put our membership at risk again. Whether there would've been recognition of deep dislike of the EU and an attempt to address those concerns is more difficult to say. Given the response to public anger at the promise of a referendum then signing up to Lisbon was to pretend everything was fine, I suspect not, which would've been grist to the UKIP mill.

    We might already be in a UK with Prime Minister Farage, or a Con-UKIP/UKIP-Con Coalition.

    And, for anyone who cares, I'd reiterate my suggestion to pro-EU types that you've got to learn to make an argument for the EU (economically not difficult, but it was utterly failed in the referendum) and engage on economics, politics, and identity.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,553
    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    59% thought Rachel Reeves’s plans to increase tax again in this year’s Budget are mostly or completely due to decisions she and the Labour government have made since they were elected. Chortle.

    Also, lifting the two-child benefit cap looks to be very unpopular right across the political spectrum.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,303

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    And yet the public support his policies and disagree with the lying Reformers and cosplaying Tories who try and turn reality on its head...
    Not on 2 child cap

    61/24 against removing it

    Also implied voting intention

    Reform 27%
    Conservative 20%
    Green 18%
    Labour 18%
    Lib Dems 10%
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,952
    This is an utter disgrace and Israel should be thrown out of the Eurovision song contest and banned for at least 40 years.

    Eurovision to change voting rules after claims of Israeli government 'interference'

    The reduction in the number of votes that can be made online, or via SMS or phone call, from 20 to 10 was "designed to encourage more balanced participation", said contest director Martin Green.


    The Eurovision Song Contest is changing its voting system, following allegations of "interference" by Israel's government this year.

    Israeli singer Yuval Raphael received the largest number of votes from the public in the contest in May, ultimately finishing as runner-up after the jury votes were counted.

    But a number of broadcasters raised concerns about Israel's result.

    After the final, Irish broadcaster RTE requested a breakdown in voting numbers from contest organiser the European Broadcasting Union (EBU), while Spain's public broadcaster, Radio Television Espanola (RTVE), called for a "complete review" of the voting system to avoid "external interference".

    In September, Dutch public broadcaster AVROTROS said it could no longer justify Israel's participation in the contest, due to the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza.

    It went on to say there had been "proven interference by the Israeli government during the last edition of the Song Contest, with the event being used as a political instrument". The statement did not elaborate on the means of "interference".


    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-to-change-voting-rules-after-claims-of-israeli-government-interference-13473662
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740
    edited 7:59AM

    Thoughts and prayers for the ghost of Alan Clark.

    We all remember how the art historian left a golden legacy for Gordon Brown

    Slight mix up in the latest Guardian review...



    https://x.com/HackBlackburn/status/1993223843083960498

    Blimey.
    Some industrial scale ignorance there.

    Still uncorrected.
    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/nov/24/civilisations-rise-and-fall-review-tv-make-you-despair-plummeting-society

    (Though tbf, Ken is a fairly decent cultural critic himself - I quite enjoyed some of his jazz programmes for the Beeb.)
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,303
    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    I think you are correct about Gill being unknown outside of Wales and why it has not cut through as may have been expected
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,555
    edited 8:00AM
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    The Russians have been funding fringe activists groups and politicans across the spectrum of beliefs for decades, often funding both sides of a contentious issue such as climate change.

    They don’t really have a preferred view on anything, they just want to sow discord and demoralisation in the West.

    KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov was talking about it four decades ago.

    https://bigthink.com/the-present/yuri-bezmenov/

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    Oh, agreed.
    But Reform appear to have considerably more ... form regarding this.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
  • eekeek Posts: 32,051

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    That’s only because most graduates are using it as a stock gap because better jobs don’t exist.

    Graduate recruitment over the past 2 years has been at the worst level for decades
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    Oh, agreed.
    But Reform appear to have considerably more ... form regarding this.
    Reform aren't doing well enough to win, and have slipped back in the fundamentals.

    Under GE conditions I'd expect them to clock about 25% - not enough to win.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,591
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    Oh, agreed.
    But Reform appear to have considerably more ... form regarding this.
    Harold Wilson says “Hi”
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 7,066

    This is an utter disgrace and Israel should be thrown out of the Eurovision song contest and banned for at least 40 years.

    Eurovision to change voting rules after claims of Israeli government 'interference'

    The reduction in the number of votes that can be made online, or via SMS or phone call, from 20 to 10 was "designed to encourage more balanced participation", said contest director Martin Green.


    The Eurovision Song Contest is changing its voting system, following allegations of "interference" by Israel's government this year.

    Israeli singer Yuval Raphael received the largest number of votes from the public in the contest in May, ultimately finishing as runner-up after the jury votes were counted.

    But a number of broadcasters raised concerns about Israel's result.

    After the final, Irish broadcaster RTE requested a breakdown in voting numbers from contest organiser the European Broadcasting Union (EBU), while Spain's public broadcaster, Radio Television Espanola (RTVE), called for a "complete review" of the voting system to avoid "external interference".

    In September, Dutch public broadcaster AVROTROS said it could no longer justify Israel's participation in the contest, due to the Israel-Hamas war in Gaza.

    It went on to say there had been "proven interference by the Israeli government during the last edition of the Song Contest, with the event being used as a political instrument". The statement did not elaborate on the means of "interference".


    https://news.sky.com/story/eurovision-to-change-voting-rules-after-claims-of-israeli-government-interference-13473662

    It would be hilarious if they banned Israel and Mossad managed to engineer the preliminaries so that most of the performers were Zionist Jews
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,952

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx9n5p7v7o

    "Has Britain's budget watchdog become too all-powerful?"

    ...

    'Too' all-powerful? It's an absolute, you can't qualify it. This is as bad as when people say 'quite unique', as if something can be 'slightly one of a kind'.

    I wonder if that was a pre-prepared quote.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,553

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    Oh, agreed.
    But Reform appear to have considerably more ... form regarding this.
    Harold Wilson says “Hi”
    As does New Labours friend, Oleg Deripaska.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,438

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    And yet the public support his policies and disagree with the lying Reformers and cosplaying Tories who try and turn reality on its head...
    Not on 2 child cap

    61/24 against removing it

    Also implied voting intention

    Reform 27%
    Conservative 20%
    Green 18%
    Labour 18%
    Lib Dems 10%
    Meh. Talk about energy as that is where Miliband stands out from the crowd.

    As for voting intention, that does not disprove my point. Reform policies are generally disliked by the people who say they will vote for them.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,484
    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,438
    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    Oh, agreed.
    But Reform appear to have considerably more ... form regarding this.
    And the Tories under Boris.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    Oh, agreed.
    But Reform appear to have considerably more ... form regarding this.
    Harold Wilson says “Hi”
    Old Labour's fondness for the old USSR was every bit as reprehensible.
    (Though in Wilson's particular case, the verdict is 'unproven'.)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,533

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I understood what he was saying and I can vouch for the fact that my electricity bills in France are very similar to those in England and both are with EDF.

    Perhaps more concerning......

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-KU6J7pwbY0
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740
    One thing that is not getting enough attention is that Trump has normalized the idea of the United States supporting the transfer of territory and millions of people from a democracy to a dictatorship.
    The ending of freedom for millions is now the official US position.

    https://x.com/PhillipsPOBrien/status/1992977979841110229
  • CumberlandGapCumberlandGap Posts: 263
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    You realise this is just catnip motivated research? If our economy had grown by an extra 6% (let’s work on the basis we stayed in the eu instead of leaving, everything else being equal)it would have put us on gdp parity with Germany.

    Let’s think about that. Do you honestly think that if we had voted to remain, that we would now have an economy that was joint largest in the EU?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,954
    Nigelb said:

    Thoughts and prayers for the ghost of Alan Clark.

    We all remember how the art historian left a golden legacy for Gordon Brown

    Slight mix up in the latest Guardian review...



    https://x.com/HackBlackburn/status/1993223843083960498

    Blimey.
    Some industrial scale ignorance there.

    Still uncorrected.
    https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/nov/24/civilisations-rise-and-fall-review-tv-make-you-despair-plummeting-society

    (Though tbf, Ken is a fairly decent cultural critic himself - I quite enjoyed some of his jazz programmes for the Beeb.)
    Infamous swordsman Alan Clark's trilby wearing father was of course TV historian Kenneth. Obvs. before he reinvented himself as a jazz critic and added an e to his name.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,553
    edited 8:09AM

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    Oh, agreed.
    But Reform appear to have considerably more ... form regarding this.
    And the Tories under Boris.
    And your lot aren’t clean, there’s allegations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hancock_(British_politician)#Russian_aide's_arrest,_espionage_allegation_and_extra-marital_affair
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,438
    Anyway, can we drop the whole "English Party for the English" attack against Reform UK, when they campaign in Wales and Scotland?

    They are a *Russian* party for the English. Get it right comrades.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,591
    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    Oh, agreed.
    But Reform appear to have considerably more ... form regarding this.
    And the Tories under Boris.
    And your lot aren’t clean, there’s allegations.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Hancock_(British_politician)#Russian_aide's_arrest,_espionage_allegation_and_extra-marital_affair
    And I seem to remember Magic Grandpa had a fondness for being a little evasive in condemning the invasion of Ukraine.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,190

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyx9n5p7v7o

    "Has Britain's budget watchdog become too all-powerful?"

    ...

    'Too' all-powerful? It's an absolute, you can't qualify it. This is as bad as when people say 'quite unique', as if something can be 'slightly one of a kind'.

    I wonder if that was a pre-prepared quote.
    ...

  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,533
    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,438
    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    But they keep doing it. Funniest of the lot is Coutinho who keeps posting performative outrage about policies she presided over when she was SofS rather than Shadow SofS.

    I assume the Tory leadership think people are stupid have forgotten what they did in government. A glance at the polls and a random dip into social media rather defeats this optimistic hopium...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,190
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
    The electorate's memory for grievance is rather stronger than for gratitude.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,943

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    Thought you were taking about indirectly racist Nigel for a moment.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,625
    edited 8:20AM

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    You realise this is just catnip motivated research? If our economy had grown by an extra 6% (let’s work on the basis we stayed in the eu instead of leaving, everything else being equal)it would have put us on gdp parity with Germany.

    Let’s think about that. Do you honestly think that if we had voted to remain, that we would now have an economy that was joint largest in the EU?
    Yes, because Germany has basically been stagnant since COVID.

    I don't think there's much point arguing about it. This is economics - you can't conduct a scientific experiment and test this stuff and prove it. I think there are enough indicators to be pretty sure it's had a negative effect, which shouldn't be a surprise given we've put up a load of trade barriers and reduced skilled European migration (including people moving back). But I can't prove it.

    You'll need to come up with evidence that the authors of the study are catnip motivated before you make a claim like that.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,303

    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    But they keep doing it. Funniest of the lot is Coutinho who keeps posting performative outrage about policies she presided over when she was SofS rather than Shadow SofS.

    I assume the Tory leadership think people are stupid have forgotten what they did in government. A glance at the polls and a random dip into social media rather defeats this optimistic hopium...
    59% in Ashcroft poll blame labour for the tax increases

    As each day passes labour own the economy
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,997
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    The Russians have been funding fringe activists groups and politicans across the spectrum of beliefs for decades, often funding both sides of a contentious issue such as climate change.

    They don’t really have a preferred view on anything, they just want to sow discord and demoralisation in the West.

    KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov was talking about it four decades ago.

    https://bigthink.com/the-present/yuri-bezmenov/

    Does constant polling elucidate the political class or just highlight the fault lines to use to keep us divided. Think how much more we could do if we all agreed on the way forward. Instead all there is is petty squabbling over insignificant issues magnified by social media
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    And that's why you lost.

    People didn't want a nominally larger economy for no change in GDP per head with all the social and cultural change that came with it.

    You liked the social and cultural change, because values, yet still think raw GDP is an effective stick to beat those who disagree with you.

    You've learned nothing.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
    Classic Roger.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    You realise this is just catnip motivated research? If our economy had grown by an extra 6% (let’s work on the basis we stayed in the eu instead of leaving, everything else being equal)it would have put us on gdp parity with Germany.

    Let’s think about that. Do you honestly think that if we had voted to remain, that we would now have an economy that was joint largest in the EU?
    How big do you estimate the gap to be, Cumberland ?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,303
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
    They are giving away 18 billion we cannot afford tomorrow

    Let's see how that goes down
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,438
    Anyway, Farage has unveiled a few things recently.

    A black Reform UK shirt. A gold party badge with the arrow pointing at 18.

    Next up: a black leather sash across the chest and thigh length black leather boots.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707
    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    You do realise that heavily taxing profits reduces investment and supply, don't you?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,484
    edited 8:24AM

    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    But they keep doing it. Funniest of the lot is Coutinho who keeps posting performative outrage about policies she presided over when she was SofS rather than Shadow SofS.

    I assume the Tory leadership think people are stupid have forgotten what they did in government. A glance at the polls and a random dip into social media rather defeats this optimistic hopium...
    I think Miliband could have handled the question better by focusing his answer on profits rather than prices, because that's what the levy is on. But it was poor interviewing as well. The comment about supermarkets was utterly irrelevant.

    And edit, I think that's why Ed Miliband won't be next PM. He's incapable of expressing in retail terms why things need to be done, even though he's an intelligent and effective minister.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707
    eek said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    That’s only because most graduates are using it as a stock gap because better jobs don’t exist.

    Graduate recruitment over the past 2 years has been at the worst level for decades
    Who's been in office for the majority of the last 2 years?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,767
    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
    More likely the who takes over from Keir in 2028 or so, by which time Ed has probably missed the boat. But yes- a new leader bounce and a bit of feelgood fairy dust and the job's a goodun.

    As for Ed's popularity, it's not a mystery. He's got an agenda, he's got the Whitehall experience to push it through, and he's confident in a way that 2015 Ed wasn't. And if it annoys the other lot, so much the better.

    It probably helps that his in-tray contained some easy wins in projects that the last lot had sat on, rather than the last-minute turds that many of the incoming team were bequeathed.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,102
    On Topic EICIPM
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,591

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
    More likely the who takes over from Keir in 2028 or so, by which time Ed has probably missed the boat. But yes- a new leader bounce and a bit of feelgood fairy dust and the job's a goodun.

    As for Ed's popularity, it's not a mystery. He's got an agenda, he's got the Whitehall experience to push it through, and he's confident in a way that 2015 Ed wasn't. And if it annoys the other lot, so much the better.

    It probably helps that his in-tray contained some easy wins in projects that the last lot had sat on, rather than the last-minute turds that many of the incoming team were bequeathed.
    Are we now in the denial phase of Labours grief?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707

    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    But they keep doing it. Funniest of the lot is Coutinho who keeps posting performative outrage about policies she presided over when she was SofS rather than Shadow SofS.

    I assume the Tory leadership think people are stupid have forgotten what they did in government. A glance at the polls and a random dip into social media rather defeats this optimistic hopium...
    59% in Ashcroft poll blame labour for the tax increases

    As each day passes labour own the economy
    Were it not for "Reform" the Conservatives would have a very comfortable lead over Labour - probably polling around 35%. They already lead on the economy as it is.

    Unfortunately, it's a Mexican stand-off: Reform won't go Tory over migration/behaviour, and Tories won't go Reform over economics/smell.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    And that's why you lost.

    People didn't want a nominally larger economy for no change in GDP per head with all the social and cultural change that came with it.

    You liked the social and cultural change, because values, yet still think raw GDP is an effective stick to beat those who disagree with you.

    You've learned nothing.
    Not have you.
    The polling, however, is more on my side than yours, with Brexit being almost as unpopular as Starmer.
    Yes I have. And Brexit isn't being reversed.

    Sorry.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,625
    edited 8:30AM

    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    You do realise that heavily taxing profits reduces investment and supply, don't you?
    Not when there is a 91% tax allowance for investment and supply. The current tax system massively incentivises diverting profit into new production.

    *It was 91% under the Tories; I think it's a bit lower now but can't find the number.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 5,039

    Anyway, Farage has unveiled a few things recently.

    A black Reform UK shirt. A gold party badge with the arrow pointing at 18.

    Next up: a black leather sash across the chest and thigh length black leather boots.

    Spode is back
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,943

    Thoughts and prayers for the ghost of Alan Clark.

    We all remember how the art historian left a golden legacy for Gordon Brown

    Slight mix up in the latest Guardian review...



    https://x.com/HackBlackburn/status/1993223843083960498

    The ghosts of Kenneth Clark et fils and very much alive Ken Clarke will all be disgusted at the BBC’s latest despoiling of their past laurels. Civilisations etc is dogshit, much more of a stain on the BBC than some dodgy editing suggesting that a seditious crook was in fact a seditious crook.

    A real historian opines.

    https://x.com/arthistorynews/status/1993071084002754613?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,393
    Ed Miliband is not one I'd choose for PM personally but after Labour's gifting us with SKS, some quite unlikely people look possible successors.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,707
    Eabhal said:

    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    You do realise that heavily taxing profits reduces investment and supply, don't you?
    Not when there is a 91% tax allowance for investment and supply. The current tax system massively incentivises diverting profit into new production.
    If you supertax profits to that extent energy companies simply won't bother and you'll be reliant on imports, pushing up costs.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,625

    Eabhal said:

    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    You do realise that heavily taxing profits reduces investment and supply, don't you?
    Not when there is a 91% tax allowance for investment and supply. The current tax system massively incentivises diverting profit into new production.
    If you supertax profits to that extent energy companies simply won't bother and you'll be reliant on imports, pushing up costs.
    Read my post again.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,102

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
    They are giving away 18 billion we cannot afford tomorrow

    Let's see how that goes down
    Mainly to Pensioners via the triple lock.

    £561 × how many million Pensioners.

    We do not need or deserve an a ove inflation increase imo
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,484

    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    You do realise that heavily taxing profits reduces investment and supply, don't you?
    Yes and that's a different point. Energy companies have made and continue to make large windfall profits from high international oil prices, which is why your party brought in the Energy Profits Levy you think to be economically illiterate.

    The principle is OK, I'm happy for energy companies to pay tax on windfall profits that otherwise would fall on me. But the rate the levy is set at does matter. Companies need a reasonable rate of return on investment. I think a discussion of that would be a lot more helpful.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,317

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    And that's why you lost.

    People didn't want a nominally larger economy for no change in GDP per head with all the social and cultural change that came with it.

    You liked the social and cultural change, because values, yet still think raw GDP is an effective stick to beat those who disagree with you.

    You've learned nothing.
    Only some of the higher GDP is down to having more workers, GDP per head would also be higher because economic integration boosts productivity. And it's not Iike Brexit reduced immigration, either!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,740
    Since they're no longer paying for it, they literally can.

    Karoline Leavitt on Ukraine:

    The United States is still sending or selling a big amount of weapons to NATO.

    We cannot do that forever.

    https://x.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/1993058930986250450
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,926
    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    Not just basically correct, correct. The UK's tax on oil and gas companies determines their after tax profit on UK operations but has no influence on the market price of oil and gas.
    Anyone describing that as a car crash interview has a personal issue with basic comprehension.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,555
    edited 8:38AM
    Battlebus said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    Nigelb said:

    This petition calling for a public inquiry into Russian interference is now up to 13k, and growing fast. It's still early days, but it's notable that the percentage of people signing is highest in Wales.

    This suggests that media coverage of Nathan Gill was considerably more extensive in Wales than elsewhere, which is disturbing because it suggests coverage of Gill's treason was insufficient outside Wales, given that it was a matter of UK national importance.

    Please share the petition as widely as possible.

    https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=744215

    A wide ranging enquiry which included all parties rather than just a stick to beat Reform would be most welcome and not just political parties but lobbying groups

    We have had plenty of accusations (even in The Guardian) that some climate groups have been funded, or part funded, by Russia.

    No stone left unturned.

    I suspect this is why it won’t happen as it would touch all the main parties bar, possibly, the Greens.
    The Russians have been funding fringe activists groups and politicans across the spectrum of beliefs for decades, often funding both sides of a contentious issue such as climate change.

    They don’t really have a preferred view on anything, they just want to sow discord and demoralisation in the West.

    KGB defector Yuri Bezmenov was talking about it four decades ago.

    https://bigthink.com/the-present/yuri-bezmenov/

    Does constant polling elucidate the political class or just highlight the fault lines to use to keep us divided. Think how much more we could do if we all agreed on the way forward. Instead all there is is petty squabbling over insignificant issues magnified by social media
    Social media has been an absolute dream for foreign state actors wanting to sow discourse, because everything is amplified constantly and the barriers to entry are significantly reduced*.

    They’ve also bred a generation of politicans who don’t appear to believe in anything except their own election , followed by a younger generation of politicians raised online who have very strong beliefs of simple solutions which are impossible within the constraints of a democratic society beholden to bond markets.

    * We’ve seen a bit of this exposed in the last few days with Twitter showing location data for accounts, with lots of accounts seemingly active in politics in one country, actually being from somewhere else, driven by ideological or financial reasons. The fallout has been rather amusing to watch.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,943

    Anyway, Farage has unveiled a few things recently.

    A black Reform UK shirt. A gold party badge with the arrow pointing at 18.

    Next up: a black leather sash across the chest and thigh length black leather boots.

    Spode is back
    The Spode vase strategy rather than the Ming vase, fine robust English crockery that’ll take a lot of punishment.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,393
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    And that's why you lost.

    People didn't want a nominally larger economy for no change in GDP per head with all the social and cultural change that came with it.

    You liked the social and cultural change, because values, yet still think raw GDP is an effective stick to beat those who disagree with you.

    You've learned nothing.
    Not have you.
    The polling, however, is more on my side than yours, with Brexit being almost as unpopular as Starmer.
    Even if a huge majority of voters were keen to rejoin the EU, it is an extremely costly project. At a time when we should be asking, what can government stop spending money on?, it would be surprising if the answer is Spend a whole lot more on another project.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,533
    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    You realise this is just catnip motivated research? If our economy had grown by an extra 6% (let’s work on the basis we stayed in the eu instead of leaving, everything else being equal)it would have put us on gdp parity with Germany.

    Let’s think about that. Do you honestly think that if we had voted to remain, that we would now have an economy that was joint largest in the EU?
    Yes, because Germany has basically been stagnant since COVID.

    I don't think there's much point arguing about it. This is economics - you can't conduct a scientific experiment and test this stuff and prove it. I think there are enough indicators to be pretty sure it's had a negative effect, which shouldn't be a surprise given we've put up a load of trade barriers and reduced skilled European migration (including people moving back). But I can't prove it.

    You'll need to come up with evidence that the authors of the study are catnip motivated before you make a claim like that.
    Interesting was an angry Piers Morgan on Newsnight giving Brexit and all those who saw it through both barrels
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,950
    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    But if you are looking at a certain return on your investment then you look at that net of the tax. If you are aiming for 20% but 78% of your profit is being nicked in tax then you need to charge higher prices to achieve that 20%. The slightly scary thing about that interview is that I think Miliband was simply not getting that, that he will not accept that there are consequences of his actions.

    Just like when we had the windfall taxes and then lamented the lack of new investment. Who'd have thought?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,767
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    And that's why you lost.

    People didn't want a nominally larger economy for no change in GDP per head with all the social and cultural change that came with it.

    You liked the social and cultural change, because values, yet still think raw GDP is an effective stick to beat those who disagree with you.

    You've learned nothing.
    Not have you.
    The polling, however, is more on my side than yours, with Brexit being almost as unpopular as Starmer.
    Yes I have. And Brexit isn't being reversed.

    Sorry.
    As refutations go, that's feeble.

    Your side of the fence were insufferable for decades, and when you finally got your way, made a complete arse of it.

    Get used to being reminded of that, interminably.
    Maybe we should have had fireworks on Daniel Hannan day as a reminder.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,161

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    We’d be in a happier place if we still had all those keen young European workers rather than the Boriswave that the Tories gifted us.
    All the restaurants and pubs in my locality are now filled with young Britons working there.

    I'd say that was a positive thing.
    I'd say our economy being 6% or so larger than it is today would have been a more positive one.
    And that's why you lost.

    People didn't want a nominally larger economy for no change in GDP per head with all the social and cultural change that came with it.

    You liked the social and cultural change, because values, yet still think raw GDP is an effective stick to beat those who disagree with you.

    You've learned nothing.
    Much of the public didn’t like the social and cultural change that the Brexiteers delivered subsequently with the large increase in migration, which suggests that the winners learnt nothing too.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,800
    edited 8:47AM

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
    More likely the who takes over from Keir in 2028 or so, by which time Ed has probably missed the boat. But yes- a new leader bounce and a bit of feelgood fairy dust and the job's a goodun.

    As for Ed's popularity, it's not a mystery. He's got an agenda, he's got the Whitehall experience to push it through, and he's confident in a way that 2015 Ed wasn't. And if it annoys the other lot, so much the better.

    It probably helps that his in-tray contained some easy wins in projects that the last lot had sat on, rather than the last-minute turds that many of the incoming team were bequeathed.
    Starmer will go in 2026 not 2028, the 3/1 on offer for it being between July and September looked good value (if it's still available.)

    Expectations of the budget are so low that Labour will see a minor recovery in the polls when it is all done and dusted. Despite all the bluster from the right wing press, there is still plenty of scope there for Labour to improve the living standards of those at the lower end of the income scale while confining the economic pain to those at the top end of the income and wealth scale. Mansion tax, higher rate pension contributions relief, CGT loopholes, freezing income tax thresholds only at the higher rates, etc etc. There is still scope for a few surprises.

    If Labour gets back to polling in the low 20s as a consequence it will be enough to tide Starmer and Reeves over until May, but immediately after that a leadership challenge will still be almost inevitable in the wake of still lousy local and devolved election results, which will serve as a catalyst for a challenge.

    Regarding Miliband, having tipped him here at 20/1 recently, I think it's realistically between him, Rayner and Streeting. All are in with a decent chance at this stage.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,533

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
    Classic Roger.
    Is that good or bad? My skill set was telling a convincing story in 30 secs which is about twice the attention span of your average voter looking at Ashcrofts polls!
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,772

    Foxy said:

    Imagine what it would have been like if Ed had won in 2015 with his coalition of chaos.

    Thank heaven we dodged that bullet!

    Ed Miliband was rightly rejected in 2015. His government would have been a car-crash.

    And it wouldn't have made the political problem of EU membership or free movement "go away" either; it would have got worse.
    The government we had was a car crash. In fact, just the start of a multiple car pile up.

    Re the EU, it's an interesting one... Would it have become more of an issue or would it have stayed as a marginal thing, particularly if a Miliband-led government actually fixed some of our structural issues (don't laugh!*). Before the 2015 election, the referendum promise ws a way to shoot UKIP's fox on the right and was, perhaps, important in the Con party win**. But it wasn't a very high priority issue for most people. It became so during the campaign, but - mostly - after the vote. I knew plenty of people who weren't very engaged in the question even during the campaign (we were obviously going to vote remain) who became rabid Europhiles or, more rarely, rabid Eurosceptics, post vote.

    *FWIW I think 2015 Miliband would have triangulated like crazy, made Starmer look dynamic and decisive and achieved f-all. He's a different guy now, no longer cares so much about what people think and has the courage to pursue his convictions, for good or ill
    **Although this, more than anything else, lost my vote as I saw it as a pointless distraction that would cost growth due to a bit of uncertainty. I voted Lab without a great deal of enthusiasm mainly over this. I wonder how many others felt similar - fewer than the gained UKIP voters? Quite possibly, but non-zero.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,625
    edited 8:52AM
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    But if you are looking at a certain return on your investment then you look at that net of the tax. If you are aiming for 20% but 78% of your profit is being nicked in tax then you need to charge higher prices to achieve that 20%. The slightly scary thing about that interview is that I think Miliband was simply not getting that, that he will not accept that there are consequences of his actions.

    Just like when we had the windfall taxes and then lamented the lack of new investment. Who'd have thought?
    I think you've got confused - the 78% is the windfall tax introduced by the Conservatives, due to end in 2030.

    What the government could do is bin the EPL early while also reducing the tax allowance for new development from 91% to the standard 25%. Would you support such a position?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,732
    As well as Ed Miliband also surprisingly good poll for John Healey who as Defence Secretary is probably the most competent Cabinet Minister
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,926
    DavidL said:

    FF43 said:

    .

    Did everyone see that car crash Sky interview where the interviewer laughed at him.

    Only a true idiot could be skewered like that, and instead of getting out of it with a mealy mouthed acknowledgement, decide to grind himself further on to the stake with dogged determination.

    https://youtube.com/shorts/xl_dzeD_CeY?si=T-qsKHJXVq-H6ei1

    Apologies for using the Tory Party short, but you really don't want to see the full thing anyway.

    I guess Ed Miliband doubled down because he's basically correct. This is a tax on profits, not on prices which are set internationally. It's highly disingenuous of the Conservatives to castigate Ed Miliband for a levy that they put in place.
    But if you are looking at a certain return on your investment then you look at that net of the tax. If you are aiming for 20% but 78% of your profit is being nicked in tax then you need to charge higher prices to achieve that 20%. The slightly scary thing about that interview is that I think Miliband was simply not getting that, that he will not accept that there are consequences of his actions.

    Just like when we had the windfall taxes and then lamented the lack of new investment. Who'd have thought?
    You can't charge a higher price in the oil market, it's one of the few examples of a perfect market, producers are price-takers unless they band together like OPEC but even then they are shifting the market price not achieving individual price differentiation.
    If the cost (in this case tax) is higher in one country where they produce then they make a lower profit on oil production in that country and that will influence their decisions on investment etc but it will make no difference to the market price of oil.

    Milliband does get the economics of the energy market and he is trying to use those to achieve his aims. People don't necessarily like those aims, particularly oil executives with a personal bonus incentive, and they have money to lobby against them but Milliband doesn't want new oil & gas in the North Sea, he wants the energy companies to switch to renewable energy production.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,732
    Don't overestimate the boost this poll gives Ed Miliband though. A September Sky poll of Labour members had Streeting, Cooper and Burnham all beating Ed Miliband head to head

    "Almost two in three Labour members back Burnham over Starmer for leader, poll shows | Politics News | Sky News" https://news.sky.com/story/almost-two-in-three-labour-members-back-burnham-over-starmer-for-leader-poll-show-13441078
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,900

    Roger said:

    nico67 said:

    Good morning

    If Miliband is the answer then the labour members are as out of touch as conservative members in choosing their leader

    Interesting poll from Lord Ashcroft

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/11/bbc-bias-the-licence-fee-the-two-child-benefit-cap-do-we-spend-too-much-or-tax-too-little-and-do-people-feel-theyre-doing-their-bit/

    The crumb of comfort for Labour and Starmer is he leads by 8 points over Farage as best PM. Given how unpopular Starmer is this shows how polarising Farage is.
    The crumb of comfort for Labour is how short term everyone's memory is. One giveaway budget in 2028 and Keir and Rachel are home and hosed
    More likely the who takes over from Keir in 2028 or so, by which time Ed has probably missed the boat. But yes- a new leader bounce and a bit of feelgood fairy dust and the job's a goodun.

    As for Ed's popularity, it's not a mystery. He's got an agenda, he's got the Whitehall experience to push it through, and he's confident in a way that 2015 Ed wasn't. And if it annoys the other lot, so much the better.

    It probably helps that his in-tray contained some easy wins in projects that the last lot had sat on, rather than the last-minute turds that many of the incoming team were bequeathed.
    Starmer will go in 2026 not 2028, the 3/1 on offer for it being between July and September looked good value (if it's still available.)

    Expectations of the budget are so low that Labour will see a minor recovery in the polls when it is all done and dusted. Despite all the bluster from the right wing press, there is still plenty of scope there for Labour to improve the living standards of those at the lower end of the income scale while confining the economic pain to those at the top end of the income and wealth scale. Mansion tax, higher rate pension contributions relief, CGT loopholes, freezing income tax thresholds only at the higher rates, etc etc. There is still scope for a few surprises.

    If Labour gets back to polling in the low 20s as a consequence it will be enough to tide Starmer and Reeves over until May, but immediately after that a leadership challenge will still be almost inevitable in the wake of still lousy local and devolved election results, which will serve as a catalyst for a challenge.

    Regarding Miliband, having tipped him here at 20/1 recently, I think it's realistically between him, Rayner and Streeting. All are in with a decent chance at this stage.
    As so often, related but different questions need to be separated in order particularly not to suffer from confirmation bias. These include:

    1) As a whole does the membership prefer to elect a likely election winner or to elect someone they prefer ideologically and emotionally.
    2) Ditto the MPs.
    3) Are they able to spot an election winner, even if they want to.
    4) To what extent are MPs and members influenced by the current job a candidate is doing (Miliband and Healey are doing favoured jobs at the moment. Mahmood isn't).
    5) Who would in fact be best at election winning.
    6) Who in fact would, as PM, run the government and country competently and well.
    7) Is there a dark horse of great brilliance hiding on the back benches.

    For betting purposes (1) and (2) and a bit of (4) are the interesting questions. As the the future of UK plc, tough.

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