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Clive Lewis once called Wes Streeting a jumped up turd, it appears things haven't improved

SystemSystem Posts: 12,797
edited 8:01AM in General
Clive Lewis once called Wes Streeting a jumped up turd, it appears things haven't improved – politicalbetting.com

Of course he finds it peculiar. Self-sacrifice, hypothetical or not, is foreign to the self-serving.I love my city and my constituents.But the authoritarian right is an existential threat. We need the best chance of turning this around.That’s Andy, not Wes https://t.co/RYHNtF89gy

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Comments

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,023
    First, and my last today
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,452
    An insult to jumped-up turds.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,284
    Second!
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,424
    Norwich South, nailed on Green win if he does step down.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,628
    “…will Sir Keir Starmer ensure the candidate for the by-election is from an all women shortlist.”

    Seems like there would be an obvious route for Burnham in that case.

    The header from @Cyclefree would be volcanic - I’m thinking Thera, maybe Deccan Traps?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,865
    edited 8:09AM
    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,072
    Labour - total shitshow
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,628
    What’s moderately hilarious in all this is that Burnham is just a populist of the Left.

    It’s almost trivial to be liked for advocating spending more money. Especially when you can blame not spending *even more* on Evil Westminster.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,452
    Zelenskyy decided to meet with Erdogan instead of Witkoff in Turkey, had no interest in discussing Russia’s one-sided “proposal” given to the American negotiator, that appeared little different from the last one-sided “proposal” they gave to the Americans.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1991379866483044728
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,419
    It’s fascinating how rapidly Labour have descended into fighting amongst themselves.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,813

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,424
    isam said:

    Yes, Janan Ganesh.



    https://on.ft.com/3XCLW2E

    He’s had a damascene conversion. Last few years he was one of SKS’s biggest online fluffers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,592
    If Lewis does trigger a by election then the NEC would likely block Burnham from the long list of potential Labour candidates anyway given its Starmerite majority. Streeting is now the candidate to succeed Starmer for the New Labour and Starmer loyalist wing, Burnham the candidate for Lewis and the Labour left
  • isamisam Posts: 43,034

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

  • isamisam Posts: 43,034
    On Times Radio’s PMQ’s Unpacked yesterday was one of Starmer’s close advisors from his time as Leader of the Opposition, Luke Sullivan. When asked about Sir Keir’s current troubles, he said that the PM was “the most stubborn, self assured and competitive people I know” and that he would be extremely difficult to budge from the job as long as he thought he was the best person for it, which he obviously does

    Around 01:48 here

    https://www.youtube.com/live/aqoP0Np6TyY?si=5EOKN3-0tXtKH7cC

    Interesting if you’re betting on the next PM market
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,865
    edited 8:34AM
    I love Wes Streeting, like me, he puts in subtle music references in his posts.



    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1991141529419678146
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 17,021
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    His surgery was in May 2021. There was an event at Downing Street that led to FPNs being issued in April 2021. That’s roughly contemporaneous.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,034
    edited 8:37AM
    Taz said:

    isam said:

    Yes, Janan Ganesh.



    https://on.ft.com/3XCLW2E

    He’s had a damascene conversion. Last few years he was one of SKS’s biggest online fluffers.
    It’s actually a fantastic evisceration of Labour as a whole. Slightly @Stuartinromford -esque, it concludes that Starmer is a coward, Reeves is unfit for the role of Chancellor, and the best thing for the government is to leave both in place
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,918

    “…will Sir Keir Starmer ensure the candidate for the by-election is from an all women shortlist.”

    Seems like there would be an obvious route for Burnham in that case.

    The header from @Cyclefree would be volcanic - I’m thinking Thera, maybe Deccan Traps?

    Ha ha! There would not in fact be any sort of route for Burnham, no matter how much mascara he wears, because the Labour Party changed its own rules quietly and without fuss shortly after the Supreme Court judgment in April to state that only women - real ones - (not men claiming to be women) could be in all-women shortlists or other Labour Party positions reserved for women.

    Other organisations bewailing how difficult it is to understand the judgment might learn from this.

    That is the good news. Party in government understands the importance of complying with the law, even if some of its own Ministers say the opposite to the courts (yes, I'm looking at you Bridget Phillipson).

    The bad news is that it opens the way for twits like Lucy Powell.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,592

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,592
    isam said:

    Yes, Janan Ganesh.



    https://on.ft.com/3XCLW2E

    Theresa May in retrospect looks more capable and competent than most of her successors as PM
  • isamisam Posts: 43,034
    edited 8:43AM

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    His surgery was in May 2021. There was an event at Downing Street that led to FPNs being issued in April 2021. That’s roughly contemporaneous.
    No. When he tweeted, the news was the Downing St party on May 20th 2020, which was obviously what he was referring to as he talks of surgery on the specific date of May 21st. He got the years mixed up, but won’t correct himself

    20 May: Martin Reynolds, Johnson's Principal Private Secretary, emails approximately 200 staff to invite them to "make the most of [the] lovely weather" and have some "socially distanced drinks" in the Downing Street garden. The email invites staff to attend from 6 p.m., and to "bring [their] own booze". Thirty to forty people attend, including Johnson for around half an hour.[1

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,455
    edited 8:44AM

    Labour - total shitshow

    Thank goodness. All this heat and finally some light.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,023
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,738
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    You seem to have all these "classes" neatly pigeon holed.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,837
    edited 8:49AM
    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)
  • StarryStarry Posts: 125
    Taz said:

    Norwich South, nailed on Green win if he does step down.

    Seems sensible then for Clive Lewis to take his personal vote to the Greens then. He would be more at home there anyway.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,596
    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?
  • isamisam Posts: 43,034
    edited 8:55AM
    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate

    It would be ludicrous to think he was talking about hangovers from a party a month earlier when he was referring to the news of a party on May 20th. He just got the year wrong

    The party was first reported on Jan 10th 2022 and Streeting tweeted on Jan 11th 2022. He was obviously referring to it

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,690
    HYUFD said:

    isam said:

    Yes, Janan Ganesh.



    https://on.ft.com/3XCLW2E

    Theresa May in retrospect looks more capable and competent than most of her successors as PM
    That's because she was.

    In part because had an order of magnitude more practical political experience.

    Look, I've been on interview panels where we have had to conclude "we can't appoint any of them". But someone has to be PM, you can't just leave the position vacant (like we have at the moment, boom boom.)

    And the Conservatives since 2017 show what happens if you dump someone poor when the available replacements are worse.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,455
    Taz said:

    Norwich South, nailed on Green win if he does step down.

    Two birds with one stone. We lose Lewis AND Burnham

    A result!
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,072
    Roger said:

    Labour - total shitshow

    Thank goodness. All this heat and finally some light.
    Always happy to provide enlightenment Roger

    In any event why would you support Starmer's anti immigrant, slash benefits, Trump vassal government ? You should be with the Greens or Jezza by now ?
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,841

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    I can imagine that Reeves might want to succeed him and lay the blame on her successor at Number 11.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,515
    Musk appears to have programmed Grok with Trump cabinet levels of sycophancy.
    https://x.com/StatisticUrban/status/1991302352478040496
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,837
    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    OK, gently digging, the huge payments are the one-off first year pavements paid for heavily polluting ICE vehicles - up to £5500 per annum.

    So I'll stick with my 1% of purchase price, falling to 0,5% after 10 years, as the speculation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,515
    On topic.

    But is he unflushable ?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,835
    isam said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    Yes, Janan Ganesh.



    https://on.ft.com/3XCLW2E

    He’s had a damascene conversion. Last few years he was one of SKS’s biggest online fluffers.
    It’s actually a fantastic evisceration of Labour as a whole. Slightly @Stuartinromford -esque, it concludes that Starmer is a coward, Reeves is unfit for the role of Chancellor, and the best thing for the government is to leave both in place
    All politics is relative. We have to have a government and in 2024 it was a choice between more Toryism, which was exhausted and didn't even look as if it wanted to carry on, and Labour. Labour was the best available choice then, and it probably is still.

    Only Reform supporters sound as if they think a better alternative is both thinkable and available. And this is mostly on account of them having the only leader who, at least while not in government, is a communication genius.

    In the system is is possible to be terrible and the best available.

    An outside bet, given that Labour and Tories both are so unpopular, would be that some sort of unspoken alliance/deal between the Green Liberation Front and the LDs would electorally become a real combined challenge to Labour, just as Reform for now have ousted the Tories. Perhaps post budget and post May elections would be the time to have a glance at the chances.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,061
    edited 8:57AM

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    Well here's the thing. Most of us on PB think we could do better don't we? I know I do.

    2-3 years as PM to turn this round and establish Pointernomics as the pattern for the next 30 years, then back to retirement with occasional ex-PM jollies and a nice extra pension. Yep, that would be acceptable.

    Now, I must get back to waiting for that call...
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,455

    I love Wes Streeting, like me, he puts in subtle music references in his posts.



    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1991141529419678146

    I'd block any politician selling themselves in a high viz jacket from standing.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,424
    edited 8:59AM
    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    Yes, Janan Ganesh.



    https://on.ft.com/3XCLW2E

    He’s had a damascene conversion. Last few years he was one of SKS’s biggest online fluffers.
    He was duped like many were re Starmer . I hold my hands up . I thought we’d get a dull sensible no drama few years in No 10 . Of course Starmers weak leadership has emboldened many Labour backbenchers who seem to be living in la la land .
    They’re utterly deluded. We need a fiscal shock to bring them, and us, to our senses.

    I’ll be honest, I was duped, certainly by Reeves who seemed competent compared to Annaliese Dodds (an incredibly low bar)

    But, as Ganesh says, there is no one any better.

    Meanwhile Badenoch seems to be getting on with the job and is making fewer errors.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,023
    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
    Sorry, nice try, but you have to take the ‘L’ on this one and move on as you’ve outed yourself. Your initial post today was in the plural (“get togethers”) showing even you yourself didn’t think Streeting referred to just one event even when you posted this morning. The context of the Tweet itself doesn’t support that either.

    I think this government’s terrible too but this isn’t analysis, just invective. The light to heat ratio on this site is not healthy anymore.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,578
    edited 9:01AM
    Roger said:

    I love Wes Streeting, like me, he puts in subtle music references in his posts.



    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1991141529419678146

    I'd block any politician selling themselves in a high viz jacket from standing.
    That's, er, um, as logical as banning pols in lanyards. It's impossible to visit some workplaces (ie where real people work) without wearing them.

    Edit: ditto eye shields.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,061
    edited 9:02AM
    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate

    It would be ludicrous to think he was talking about hangovers from a party a month earlier when he was referring to the news of a party on May 20th. He just got the year wrong

    The party was first reported on Jan 10th 2022 and Streeting tweeted on Jan 11th 2022. He was obviously referring to it

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown
    His point still stands though. Which is why his statement has never and will never be held against him by the vast majority of the public.

    Still, keep whistling into that gale if you want to.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,023

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    You seem to have all these "classes" neatly pigeon holed.
    Properly speaking anyone who relies on a wage or salary for subsistence is working class. We Brits just love our finer distinctions though.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,918
    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    Yes, Janan Ganesh.



    https://on.ft.com/3XCLW2E

    He’s had a damascene conversion. Last few years he was one of SKS’s biggest online fluffers.
    He was duped like many were re Starmer . I hold my hands up . I thought we’d get a dull sensible no drama few years in No 10 . Of course Starmers weak leadership has emboldened many Labour backbenchers who seem to be living in la la land .
    Ahem - Not everyone was persuaded by Starmer. From https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2021/07/19/why-are-the-tories-leading-in-the-polls/.

  • isamisam Posts: 43,034
    edited 9:05AM
    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
    Sorry, nice try, but you have to take the ‘L’ on this one and move on as you’ve outed yourself. Your initial post today was in the plural (“get togethers”) showing even you yourself didn’t think Streeting referred to just one event even when you posted this morning. The context of the Tweet itself doesn’t support that either.

    I think this government’s terrible too but this isn’t analysis, just invective. The light to heat ratio on this site is not healthy anymore.
    Sorry Doug, but I am right here

    The news of a party in Downing Street on May 20th 2020 broke on Jan 10th 2022

    On Jan 11th 2022, Streeting tweeted

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    He obviously thought the hangovers he referred to were being suffered as he was having surgery, but he got the years mixed up. It would be ludicrous to believe he would phrase his tweet that way, the day after news of a party on May 20th broke, if he didn’t think his operation was day after that party.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,061
    DougSeal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    You seem to have all these "classes" neatly pigeon holed.
    Properly speaking anyone who relies on a wage or salary for subsistence is working class. We Brits just love our finer distinctions though.
    I was assisting with graduate recruitment for a well-known insurance company in the early 1990s. Chair of the committee, regarding a very solid candidate: "But his father was a lorry driver, is that the sort of person we want to be recruiting?"

    (Tbf, his comment was greeted with disbelief and scorn by the rest of the committee and the candidate was offered a place. Turned us down I think.)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,835

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    It's not easy to see why second raters would want the job. And that, WRT this job, is almost everyone. But there clearly is always a group of people who, despite not having the qualities (maximal talent, ability, communication, judgment, team building, toughness, courage, vision) lack the judgment to say 'Not Me'.

    It looks obvious that a high proportion of MPs have little real skill in being representatives in the Burkean sense, and legislators in the statesman sense. It is staggering that so few of the 400 Labour MPs bring to parliament the gifts of top management in medium and large companies, entrepreneurship, wealth creation and so on.

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,023
    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
    Sorry, nice try, but you have to take the ‘L’ on this one and move on as you’ve outed yourself. Your initial post today was in the plural (“get togethers”) showing even you yourself didn’t think Streeting referred to just one event even when you posted this morning. The context of the Tweet itself doesn’t support that either.

    I think this government’s terrible too but this isn’t analysis, just invective. The light to heat ratio on this site is not healthy anymore.
    Sorry Doug, but I am right here

    The news of a party in Downing Street on May 20th 2020 broke on Jan 10th 2022

    On Jan 11th 2022, Streeting tweeted

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    He obviously thought the hangovers he referred to were being suffered as he was having surgery, but he got the years mixed up. It would be ludicrous to believe he would phrase his tweet that way, the day after news of a party on May 20th broke, if he didn’t think his operation was day after that party.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown
    “Obviously” carrying a hell off a lot of weight there. Just admit you (and many others) have made a mistake and move on. You’ve made a bit of a fool of yourself over this, as I’ve shown, but we all do it. You’re just digging a bigger hole for yourself. Even if one of the two versions of your position you’ve put forward today is right it hardly matters - history shows the unlawful parties at No 10 went on until the end of restrictions.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,365
    Andy Burnham is not in parliament and has not been in parliament for some years. At the time he attempted to win the leadership, ISTR people in Labour were saying (or rather, writing) that he was the Oh, he'll do, I suppose candidate. That doesn't hold out great promise.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,738

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    Well here's the thing. Most of us on PB think we could do better don't we? I know I do.

    2-3 years as PM to turn this round and establish Pointernomics as the pattern for the next 30 years, then back to retirement with occasional ex-PM jollies and a nice extra pension. Yep, that would be acceptable.

    Now, I must get back to waiting for that call...
    Of course inheriting an economic wasteland has been at the core of Starmer's troubles.

    PB Tories conveniently misremember that or claim they left a golden legacy.

    Nonetheless that can't excuse Starmer's ineptitude.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,230
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    Good morning

    What on earth has that to do with anything?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,452
    Cyclefree said:

    “…will Sir Keir Starmer ensure the candidate for the by-election is from an all women shortlist.”

    Seems like there would be an obvious route for Burnham in that case.

    The header from @Cyclefree would be volcanic - I’m thinking Thera, maybe Deccan Traps?

    Ha ha! There would not in fact be any sort of route for Burnham, no matter how much mascara he wears, because the Labour Party changed its own rules quietly and without fuss shortly after the Supreme Court judgment in April to state that only women - real ones - (not men claiming to be women) could be in all-women shortlists or other Labour Party positions reserved for women.

    Other organisations bewailing how difficult it is to understand the judgment might learn from this.

    That is the good news. Party in government understands the importance of complying with the law, even if some of its own Ministers say the opposite to the courts (yes, I'm looking at you Bridget Phillipson).

    The bad news is that it opens the way for twits like Lucy Powell.
    Has the Labour Party updated its own policy documents to say that men in dresses are not women?

    They seem to be taking their own pretty time over updating the official government guidance on the subject.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,365
    algarkirk said:

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    It's not easy to see why second raters would want the job. And that, WRT this job, is almost everyone. But there clearly is always a group of people who, despite not having the qualities (maximal talent, ability, communication, judgment, team building, toughness, courage, vision) lack the judgment to say 'Not Me'.

    It looks obvious that a high proportion of MPs have little real skill in being representatives in the Burkean sense, and legislators in the statesman sense. It is staggering that so few of the 400 Labour MPs bring to parliament the gifts of top management in medium and large companies, entrepreneurship, wealth creation and so on.

    Well, the pay, the prestige and the pension are highly attractive benefits. All one has to do is succeed in winning the job and all the rest follows on, regardless of what sort of fist you make of doing the job or how long you do it for.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,606
    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    I quite like this idea so expanding on it, I think it could work combined with retaining fuel duty (may as well keep it frozen given revenue from it will decline in any case).

    Older cars - pay fuel duty only. EV cars exempt (think of it as an early adoption bonus).

    New cars - have a "car tax band" calculated at the point of purchase. Various things such as the car cost, how much it pollutes, weight etc go into calculating the band. Applies to both EV and new ICE cars, but ends up in the 1% to 2% of purchase price range you mention. The car tax band is logged under the car registration and so known/unchanged for future second hand sales.

    Has the benefit of 1) not applying retrospectively and irritating a lot of people day 1, 2) solving the long-term tax gap creates by the decline of fuel duty revenues. Revenues would increase gradually over time as fuel duty revenues decline.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,593
    edited 9:16AM

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    We need to get out of this mindset. There's loads of human potential, plenty of cash swimming around. On most indicators the UK is one of the best places to live in the world, with an advanced economy, and there is at least a hazy consensus on what needs to be done to build on that.

    The problem is the politics. If we can't means-test something like WFP then there really is no hope for improvement. But if you think you've got the vision, strength and communication skills to make a reform like that stick, then there is an opportunity there to transform the country and drive it forwards.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,455
    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    I love Wes Streeting, like me, he puts in subtle music references in his posts.



    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1991141529419678146

    I'd block any politician selling themselves in a high viz jacket from standing.
    That's, er, um, as logical as banning pols in lanyards. It's impossible to visit some workplaces (ie where real people work) without wearing them.

    Edit: ditto eye shields.
    I think you missed the line 'selling themselves'. I object on two grounds.

    1. it reminds me of Johnson

    2. it reminds me of Thatcher on a tank

    Maybe I should have widened it to inappropriate props
  • isamisam Posts: 43,034
    edited 9:21AM
    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
    Sorry, nice try, but you have to take the ‘L’ on this one and move on as you’ve outed yourself. Your initial post today was in the plural (“get togethers”) showing even you yourself didn’t think Streeting referred to just one event even when you posted this morning. The context of the Tweet itself doesn’t support that either.

    I think this government’s terrible too but this isn’t analysis, just invective. The light to heat ratio on this site is not healthy anymore.
    Sorry Doug, but I am right here

    The news of a party in Downing Street on May 20th 2020 broke on Jan 10th 2022

    On Jan 11th 2022, Streeting tweeted

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    He obviously thought the hangovers he referred to were being suffered as he was having surgery, but he got the years mixed up. It would be ludicrous to believe he would phrase his tweet that way, the day after news of a party on May 20th broke, if he didn’t think his operation was day after that party.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown
    “Obviously” carrying a hell off a lot of weight there. Just admit you (and many others) have made a mistake and move on. You’ve made a bit of a fool of yourself over this, as I’ve shown, but we all do it. You’re just digging a bigger hole for yourself. Even if one of the two versions of your position you’ve put forward today is right it hardly matters - history shows the unlawful parties at No 10 went on until the end of restrictions.
    Blimey!

    I just went to the shops to buy some breakfast, and on the way was genuinely thinking you’d have seen sense when reading the facts I presented. I had it lined up as one of the rare PB apologies!! But, no

    Oh well, none so blind etc
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,424
    Roger said:

    I love Wes Streeting, like me, he puts in subtle music references in his posts.



    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1991141529419678146

    I'd block any politician selling themselves in a high viz jacket from standing.
    You go to a factory or a building site you have to wear one in most cases
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,575
    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    Any good system should make older cars cheap or free, regardless of size, to ensure that people run them until they are properly worn out - the environmental consequences of scrapping larger cars early because they come with a huge tax burden would be horrific.

    1% of current "book value" would probably be sane - although for simplicity one could use a standard depreciation curve based on the new price (possibly with a milage modifier, as well age) rather than having to keep assessing each car individually.

    I'd be in favour of cars over 15 years old being free - past that point they are either old bangers run by the poor, or classics doing low milages as second cars.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,452
    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    From a position of wanting to maximise utility and reduce carbon emissions, a tax that reduces over time is best.

    From a position of wanting to maximise employment, economic activity, VAT receipts, and road safety, a tax that increases over time is best.

    Japan has a car tax that increases over time, a 10yo car is pretty much depreciated to nothing because of the taxes, and they end up exported through the sandpit. My car is one of these.

    Personally I’d tax EVs based on weight squared, which encourages smaller cars and advances in battery technology. Weight to the fourth power, which is related to road wear, probably makes long-range EVs impossible at the moment.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,578
    Roger said:

    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    I love Wes Streeting, like me, he puts in subtle music references in his posts.



    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1991141529419678146

    I'd block any politician selling themselves in a high viz jacket from standing.
    That's, er, um, as logical as banning pols in lanyards. It's impossible to visit some workplaces (ie where real people work) without wearing them.

    Edit: ditto eye shields.
    I think you missed the line 'selling themselves'. I object on two grounds.

    1. it reminds me of Johnson

    2. it reminds me of Thatcher on a tank

    Maybe I should have widened it to inappropriate props
    On 1, er, well, you may have a point.

    On 2, I think you misremember. Like John Major (IIRC) Mrs T didn't dress up in combats - though in the modern era one does need a helmet for safety as Ms Truss exemplifies (lots of pointy sharp bits inside a tank - not sure about the flak jacket).

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/britain-uk-liz-truss-prime-minister-margaret-thatcher-boris-joshnson-rcna45838

  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,023
    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
    Sorry, nice try, but you have to take the ‘L’ on this one and move on as you’ve outed yourself. Your initial post today was in the plural (“get togethers”) showing even you yourself didn’t think Streeting referred to just one event even when you posted this morning. The context of the Tweet itself doesn’t support that either.

    I think this government’s terrible too but this isn’t analysis, just invective. The light to heat ratio on this site is not healthy anymore.
    Sorry Doug, but I am right here

    The news of a party in Downing Street on May 20th 2020 broke on Jan 10th 2022

    On Jan 11th 2022, Streeting tweeted

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    He obviously thought the hangovers he referred to were being suffered as he was having surgery, but he got the years mixed up. It would be ludicrous to believe he would phrase his tweet that way, the day after news of a party on May 20th broke, if he didn’t think his operation was day after that party.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown
    “Obviously” carrying a hell off a lot of weight there. Just admit you (and many others) have made a mistake and move on. You’ve made a bit of a fool of yourself over this, as I’ve shown, but we all do it. You’re just digging a bigger hole for yourself. Even if one of the two versions of your position you’ve put forward today is right it hardly matters - history shows the unlawful parties at No 10 went on until the end of restrictions.
    Blimey!

    I just went to the shops to buy some breakfast, and on the way was genuinely thinking you’d have seen sense when reading the facts I presented. I had it lined up as one of the rare PB apologies!! But, no

    Oh well, none so blind etc
    When you’ve stopped rattling your pearls, read your posts again. You’ve made a complete arse of yourself by changing your position and presenting supposition (“obviously”) as fact. Have a good day and maybe undertake some reflection.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,578

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    Good morning

    What on earth has that to do with anything?
    The price of tinned haricot beans, I presume.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,034
    edited 9:30AM
    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
    Sorry, nice try, but you have to take the ‘L’ on this one and move on as you’ve outed yourself. Your initial post today was in the plural (“get togethers”) showing even you yourself didn’t think Streeting referred to just one event even when you posted this morning. The context of the Tweet itself doesn’t support that either.

    I think this government’s terrible too but this isn’t analysis, just invective. The light to heat ratio on this site is not healthy anymore.
    Sorry Doug, but I am right here

    The news of a party in Downing Street on May 20th 2020 broke on Jan 10th 2022

    On Jan 11th 2022, Streeting tweeted

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    He obviously thought the hangovers he referred to were being suffered as he was having surgery, but he got the years mixed up. It would be ludicrous to believe he would phrase his tweet that way, the day after news of a party on May 20th broke, if he didn’t think his operation was day after that party.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown
    “Obviously” carrying a hell off a lot of weight there. Just admit you (and many others) have made a mistake and move on. You’ve made a bit of a fool of yourself over this, as I’ve shown, but we all do it. You’re just digging a bigger hole for yourself. Even if one of the two versions of your position you’ve put forward today is right it hardly matters - history shows the unlawful parties at No 10 went on until the end of restrictions.
    Blimey!

    I just went to the shops to buy some breakfast, and on the way was genuinely thinking you’d have seen sense when reading the facts I presented. I had it lined up as one of the rare PB apologies!! But, no

    Oh well, none so blind etc
    When you’ve stopped rattling your pearls, read your posts again. You’ve made a complete arse of yourself by changing your position and presenting supposition (“obviously”) as fact. Have a good day and maybe undertake some reflection.
    Why so angry?!

    The fact I typed ‘get togethers’ instead of ‘get together’ on my phone while I was in bed this morning doesn’t alter the fact that I made the same point I am making now to Streeting himself the day he made his erroneous tweet

    The drinks were in May 2020 & your surgery was a year later in May 2021. Acknowledge your error & remove this pitiful & inaccurate attempt at sympathy vote garnering

    https://x.com/asfarasdelgados/status/1480956482891956228?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Maybe one day you’ll both admit your mistakes!
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,455
    nico67 said:

    Taz said:

    isam said:

    Yes, Janan Ganesh.



    https://on.ft.com/3XCLW2E

    He’s had a damascene conversion. Last few years he was one of SKS’s biggest online fluffers.
    He was duped like many were re Starmer . I hold my hands up . I thought we’d get a dull sensible no drama few years in No 10 . Of course Starmers weak leadership has emboldened many Labour backbenchers who seem to be living in la la land .
    It's becoming clear that Starmer is going nowhere. There is no JFK standing in the wings. It's time for all us Farage haters to get used to it. Our best chance is a new improved Starmer. He's got 3.5 yers to get better and learn what is expected of a Labour leader. He doesn't need to be super articulate just start listening to the right people and get himself a Philip Gould figure to read and understand public opinion.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,424

    Cyclefree said:

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    Well here's the thing. Most of us on PB think we could do better don't we? I know I do.

    2-3 years as PM to turn this round and establish Pointernomics as the pattern for the next 30 years, then back to retirement with occasional ex-PM jollies and a nice extra pension. Yep, that would be acceptable.

    Now, I must get back to waiting for that call...
    At least you are building a house - how is that going BTW? - which is more than can be said for this government.
    Thank you @Cyclefree - I hope all is well with you.

    The house is going pretty well thanks, we've reached the interior fit-out now: floor tiling, bathrooms, electrics, kitchen, internal doors, etc...

    We're hoping to be in by early spring. Then the fun begins with the landscaping - quite of lot of work required to convert a building site into a garden 😱 - but we do already have some trees in:

    image

    More here for anyone who is interested.

    https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/blogs/blog/87-contemporary-build-in-north-dorset/
    I like the design. Reminds me of some of the houses in Golders that back onto the Heath.

    Are those apple trees ?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,837
    edited 9:33AM
    Good morning everyone.

    No snow at the top of Nottinghamshire, but it's still brass monkeys on the temperature scale - Zero Centigrade.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,835
    Eabhal said:

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    We need to get out of this mindset. There's loads of human potential, plenty of cash swimming around. On most indicators the UK is one of the best places to live in the world, with an advanced economy, and there is at least a hazy consensus on what needs to be done to build on that.

    The problem is the politics. If we can't means-test something like WFP then there really is no hope for improvement. But if you think you've got the vision, strength and communication skills to make a reform like that stick, then there is an opportunity there to transform the country and drive it forwards.
    Yes. It is not true that we are an economic wasteland. It is not true that we are useless. We do need a fresh sort of talent at the top especially in this era of exaggerated media and endless discussion of problems.

    Priorities: Our glass is half full and getting fuller, not the reverse.
    Competence in everything the government/state takes responsibility for (44% of GDP) so that it runs really well.
    Having a plan for short, medium and long term and communicating it brilliantly. Be master of the narrative.

  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,318
    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    How do you decide these things? My grandfather (I only knew one) was a labourer, but then bought a grocery shop. Is he working class or middle class or did he miraculously move from one to the other.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,061
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    No snow at the top of Nottinghamshire, but it's still brass monkeys on the temperature scale - Zero Centigrade.

    -3.6 in Dorset this morning. I think our unsheltered lemon tree is going to suffer :(

    1st world problem, I guess!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,061
    edited 9:40AM
    Taz said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    Well here's the thing. Most of us on PB think we could do better don't we? I know I do.

    2-3 years as PM to turn this round and establish Pointernomics as the pattern for the next 30 years, then back to retirement with occasional ex-PM jollies and a nice extra pension. Yep, that would be acceptable.

    Now, I must get back to waiting for that call...
    At least you are building a house - how is that going BTW? - which is more than can be said for this government.
    Thank you @Cyclefree - I hope all is well with you.

    The house is going pretty well thanks, we've reached the interior fit-out now: floor tiling, bathrooms, electrics, kitchen, internal doors, etc...

    We're hoping to be in by early spring. Then the fun begins with the landscaping - quite of lot of work required to convert a building site into a garden 😱 - but we do already have some trees in:

    image

    More here for anyone who is interested.

    https://forum.buildhub.org.uk/blogs/blog/87-contemporary-build-in-north-dorset/
    I like the design. Reminds me of some of the houses in Golders that back onto the Heath.

    Are those apple trees ?
    Thank-you. Not apple trees but don't ask me what they are - that's way beyond my pay-grade.

    Edit: I think those three in the foreground are red hawthorns.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 13,023
    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
    Sorry, nice try, but you have to take the ‘L’ on this one and move on as you’ve outed yourself. Your initial post today was in the plural (“get togethers”) showing even you yourself didn’t think Streeting referred to just one event even when you posted this morning. The context of the Tweet itself doesn’t support that either.

    I think this government’s terrible too but this isn’t analysis, just invective. The light to heat ratio on this site is not healthy anymore.
    Sorry Doug, but I am right here

    The news of a party in Downing Street on May 20th 2020 broke on Jan 10th 2022

    On Jan 11th 2022, Streeting tweeted

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    He obviously thought the hangovers he referred to were being suffered as he was having surgery, but he got the years mixed up. It would be ludicrous to believe he would phrase his tweet that way, the day after news of a party on May 20th broke, if he didn’t think his operation was day after that party.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown
    “Obviously” carrying a hell off a lot of weight there. Just admit you (and many others) have made a mistake and move on. You’ve made a bit of a fool of yourself over this, as I’ve shown, but we all do it. You’re just digging a bigger hole for yourself. Even if one of the two versions of your position you’ve put forward today is right it hardly matters - history shows the unlawful parties at No 10 went on until the end of restrictions.
    Blimey!

    I just went to the shops to buy some breakfast, and on the way was genuinely thinking you’d have seen sense when reading the facts I presented. I had it lined up as one of the rare PB apologies!! But, no

    Oh well, none so blind etc
    When you’ve stopped rattling your pearls, read your posts again. You’ve made a complete arse of yourself by changing your position and presenting supposition (“obviously”) as fact. Have a good day and maybe undertake some reflection.
    Why so angry?!

    The fact I typed ‘get togethers’ instead of ‘get together’ on my phone while I was in bed this morning doesn’t alter the fact that I made the same point I am making now to Streeting himself the day he made his erroneous tweet

    The drinks were in May 2020 & your surgery was a year later in May 2021. Acknowledge your error & remove this pitiful & inaccurate attempt at sympathy vote garnering

    https://x.com/asfarasdelgados/status/1480956482891956228?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Maybe one day you’ll both admit your mistakes!
    I’m not angry. Just sad and disappointed in your failure to accept the obvious. You hate Labour, I get it, I just think it’s sad that your hate gets in the way of clear and logical thinking. You’ve made a mistake, accept it, and move on. It’s better for you.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,452

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    No snow at the top of Nottinghamshire, but it's still brass monkeys on the temperature scale - Zero Centigrade.

    -3.6 in Dorset this morning. I think our unsheltered lemon tree is going to suffer :(

    1st world problem, I guess!
    I normally laugh at posts about crap British weather, when winter is the good weather out here in the sandpit, but I had to abandon my journey to the office this morning bacause of fog. It was so bad that you couldn’t see one car length ahead at 10 mph. I stopped at a petrol station for an hour and got a coffee, but the fog barely lifted so I turned around and went home.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,103
    kjh said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    How do you decide these things? My grandfather (I only knew one) was a labourer, but then bought a grocery shop. Is he working class or middle class or did he miraculously move from one to the other.
    The NRS grading system would have treated him as someone who changed class.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,365
    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    I read only yesterday that there is some doubt whether multi-storey car parks will be strong enough if all the cars parked were to be electric vehicles. Strengthening them is going to be quite costly, I'd expect.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,837
    edited 9:42AM
    theProle said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    Any good system should make older cars cheap or free, regardless of size, to ensure that people run them until they are properly worn out - the environmental consequences of scrapping larger cars early because they come with a huge tax burden would be horrific.

    1% of current "book value" would probably be sane - although for simplicity one could use a standard depreciation curve based on the new price (possibly with a milage modifier, as well age) rather than having to keep assessing each car individually.

    I'd be in favour of cars over 15 years old being free - past that point they are either old bangers run by the poor, or classics doing low milages as second cars.
    I think there's an case to be made from a simplicity and familiarity point of view, and potentially to avoid the Grandes Complications of a mileage levy.

    A political downside is that it is more transparent and predictable, which I don't see being popular with the Treasury..
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,738

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    Good morning

    What on earth has that to do with anything?
    Neither are Prime Ministerial material?

    I am assuming a Prime Minister should be educated at Dulwich College, at the very least.
  • isamisam Posts: 43,034
    edited 9:45AM
    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
    Sorry, nice try, but you have to take the ‘L’ on this one and move on as you’ve outed yourself. Your initial post today was in the plural (“get togethers”) showing even you yourself didn’t think Streeting referred to just one event even when you posted this morning. The context of the Tweet itself doesn’t support that either.

    I think this government’s terrible too but this isn’t analysis, just invective. The light to heat ratio on this site is not healthy anymore.
    Sorry Doug, but I am right here

    The news of a party in Downing Street on May 20th 2020 broke on Jan 10th 2022

    On Jan 11th 2022, Streeting tweeted

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    He obviously thought the hangovers he referred to were being suffered as he was having surgery, but he got the years mixed up. It would be ludicrous to believe he would phrase his tweet that way, the day after news of a party on May 20th broke, if he didn’t think his operation was day after that party.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown
    “Obviously” carrying a hell off a lot of weight there. Just admit you (and many others) have made a mistake and move on. You’ve made a bit of a fool of yourself over this, as I’ve shown, but we all do it. You’re just digging a bigger hole for yourself. Even if one of the two versions of your position you’ve put forward today is right it hardly matters - history shows the unlawful parties at No 10 went on until the end of restrictions.
    Blimey!

    I just went to the shops to buy some breakfast, and on the way was genuinely thinking you’d have seen sense when reading the facts I presented. I had it lined up as one of the rare PB apologies!! But, no

    Oh well, none so blind etc
    When you’ve stopped rattling your pearls, read your posts again. You’ve made a complete arse of yourself by changing your position and presenting supposition (“obviously”) as fact. Have a good day and maybe undertake some reflection.
    Why so angry?!

    The fact I typed ‘get togethers’ instead of ‘get together’ on my phone while I was in bed this morning doesn’t alter the fact that I made the same point I am making now to Streeting himself the day he made his erroneous tweet

    The drinks were in May 2020 & your surgery was a year later in May 2021. Acknowledge your error & remove this pitiful & inaccurate attempt at sympathy vote garnering

    https://x.com/asfarasdelgados/status/1480956482891956228?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Maybe one day you’ll both admit your mistakes!
    I’m not angry. Just sad and disappointed in your failure to accept the obvious. You hate Labour, I get it, I just think it’s sad that your hate gets in the way of clear and logical thinking. You’ve made a mistake, accept it, and move on. It’s better for you.
    This is genuinely crazy! The only justification for this madness is you must have quite a hangover yourself

    Or you are Wes Streeting!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,912

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    Good morning

    What on earth has that to do with anything?
    I believe that Starmer's father was a tool maker. He certainly made at least one.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,918
    edited 9:52AM
    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    “…will Sir Keir Starmer ensure the candidate for the by-election is from an all women shortlist.”

    Seems like there would be an obvious route for Burnham in that case.

    The header from @Cyclefree would be volcanic - I’m thinking Thera, maybe Deccan Traps?

    Ha ha! There would not in fact be any sort of route for Burnham, no matter how much mascara he wears, because the Labour Party changed its own rules quietly and without fuss shortly after the Supreme Court judgment in April to state that only women - real ones - (not men claiming to be women) could be in all-women shortlists or other Labour Party positions reserved for women.

    Other organisations bewailing how difficult it is to understand the judgment might learn from this.

    That is the good news. Party in government understands the importance of complying with the law, even if some of its own Ministers say the opposite to the courts (yes, I'm looking at you Bridget Phillipson).

    The bad news is that it opens the way for twits like Lucy Powell.
    Has the Labour Party updated its own policy documents to say that men in dresses are not women?

    They seem to be taking their own pretty time over updating the official government guidance on the subject.
    Er ..... yes they are. Because they are cowards. Or they don't want to admit that the women who challenged them were right.

    I have written a header on this. https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/11/01/a-halloween-nightmare/ and the one earlier this week.

    Or you can see these two articles by Legal Feminist - one by me: https://www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2025/10/31/cracking-the-code/ and https://www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2025/11/14/three-questions/

    At any event, the guidance is not law and cannot change it, the judgment is clear, the law is effective now and has been in fact since 2010 and on toilets for years before that (since 1992) and quite a few bodies have started complying with it including, amusingly, NHS Fife, which is also spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayers money arguing the opposite.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,061
    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    Good morning

    What on earth has that to do with anything?
    I believe that Starmer's father was a tool maker. He certainly made at least one.
    I wouldn't give up the day job David ;-)
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,452
    AnneJGP said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    I read only yesterday that there is some doubt whether multi-storey car parks will be strong enough if all the cars parked were to be electric vehicles. Strengthening them is going to be quite costly, I'd expect.
    There’s a lot of multi-storey car parks built in the ‘60s that assumed an average car weighed 700 or 800kg, as they did at the time, in their engineering calculations.

    Now they would have had perhaps a 3x safety factor, which you’d expect in such constructions, but now you have cars that weigh 3x what they did 60 years ago, and a 60-year-old structure that is close to it’s design life, there’s not an awful lot of margin left…
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,963
    edited 9:51AM
    AnneJGP said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    I read only yesterday that there is some doubt whether multi-storey car parks will be strong enough if all the cars parked were to be electric vehicles. Strengthening them is going to be quite costly, I'd expect.
    More accurately, the problem is heavy vehicles rather than electric vehicles. My Nissan Leaf, for example, is around a ton lighter than a typical petrol or diesel powered Range Rover. Cars had been getting bigger and heavier for a long time before the advent of EVs.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,738
    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    DougSeal said:

    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    …and the multiculturalism experiment could well mean he’s not even an MP after the next election

    Still bugs me that he used his cancer as a weapon against the Tories over partygate, because his operation was in a different year to the boozy get togethers. If he didn’t know when he tweeted, enough people have pointed it out, but it’s still there

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    Others had it much worse.

    Johnson’s double standards add insult to injury.


    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1480901993526968328?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Sorry…said I would not post again today but this is bollocks.

    The operation was in May 2021. There was an FPN issues for an event in Downing St the previous month. Two separate parties were held on 16 April 2021, same year, previous month, the leaving events for James Slack, Johnson's director of communications, and a photographer. If you’re going to make such serious accusations you should get your facts right.

    The government’s crap but this is just crass fact free invective. The constant “Yah, yah, Labour’s shit” may be correct but it’s hardly worth coming back here to read constantly and engage with.
    My facts are right. Streeting is comparing hangovers from a party on May 20th with his operation on May 21st, but the party was in 2020 and the operation 2021

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_Partygate
    Sorry, nice try, but you have to take the ‘L’ on this one and move on as you’ve outed yourself. Your initial post today was in the plural (“get togethers”) showing even you yourself didn’t think Streeting referred to just one event even when you posted this morning. The context of the Tweet itself doesn’t support that either.

    I think this government’s terrible too but this isn’t analysis, just invective. The light to heat ratio on this site is not healthy anymore.
    Sorry Doug, but I am right here

    The news of a party in Downing Street on May 20th 2020 broke on Jan 10th 2022

    On Jan 11th 2022, Streeting tweeted

    While Downing Street nursed their hangovers, on 21st May I went into hospital alone for major surgery to remove my kidney cancer. It was the loneliest I have ever felt in my life and worse for my family.

    He obviously thought the hangovers he referred to were being suffered as he was having surgery, but he got the years mixed up. It would be ludicrous to believe he would phrase his tweet that way, the day after news of a party on May 20th broke, if he didn’t think his operation was day after that party.

    https://www.itv.com/news/2022-01-10/email-proves-downing-street-staff-held-drinks-party-at-height-of-lockdown
    “Obviously” carrying a hell off a lot of weight there. Just admit you (and many others) have made a mistake and move on. You’ve made a bit of a fool of yourself over this, as I’ve shown, but we all do it. You’re just digging a bigger hole for yourself. Even if one of the two versions of your position you’ve put forward today is right it hardly matters - history shows the unlawful parties at No 10 went on until the end of restrictions.
    Blimey!

    I just went to the shops to buy some breakfast, and on the way was genuinely thinking you’d have seen sense when reading the facts I presented. I had it lined up as one of the rare PB apologies!! But, no

    Oh well, none so blind etc
    When you’ve stopped rattling your pearls, read your posts again. You’ve made a complete arse of yourself by changing your position and presenting supposition (“obviously”) as fact. Have a good day and maybe undertake some reflection.
    Why so angry?!

    The fact I typed ‘get togethers’ instead of ‘get together’ on my phone while I was in bed this morning doesn’t alter the fact that I made the same point I am making now to Streeting himself the day he made his erroneous tweet

    The drinks were in May 2020 & your surgery was a year later in May 2021. Acknowledge your error & remove this pitiful & inaccurate attempt at sympathy vote garnering

    https://x.com/asfarasdelgados/status/1480956482891956228?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Maybe one day you’ll both admit your mistakes!
    I’m not angry. Just sad and disappointed in your failure to accept the obvious. You hate Labour, I get it, I just think it’s sad that your hate gets in the way of clear and logical thinking. You’ve made a mistake, accept it, and move on. It’s better for you.
    This is genuinely crazy! The only justification for this madness is you must have quite a hangover yourself

    Or you are Wes Streeting!
    Even if @DougSeal has just come off a Johnsonian Downing Street all nighter or a Lebedev Bungabunga event in Northern Italy his timeline is still correct.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,945
    edited 9:55AM
    algarkirk said:

    Eabhal said:

    Why the hell does anyone want to succeed Starmer - and inherit the economic wasteland he oversees?

    We need to get out of this mindset. There's loads of human potential, plenty of cash swimming around. On most indicators the UK is one of the best places to live in the world, with an advanced economy, and there is at least a hazy consensus on what needs to be done to build on that.

    The problem is the politics. If we can't means-test something like WFP then there really is no hope for improvement. But if you think you've got the vision, strength and communication skills to make a reform like that stick, then there is an opportunity there to transform the country and drive it forwards.
    Yes. It is not true that we are an economic wasteland. It is not true that we are useless. We do need a fresh sort of talent at the top especially in this era of exaggerated media and endless discussion of problems.

    Priorities: Our glass is half full and getting fuller, not the reverse.
    Competence in everything the government/state takes responsibility for (44% of GDP) so that it runs really well.
    Having a plan for short, medium and long term and communicating it brilliantly. Be master of the narrative.

    The UK is joint 13th with Singapore, on the Human Development Index, and rated above quite a number of peer nations. The notion that we are living in some kind of hellhole is absurd. Ask any serious historian or economist when was the best time to be born, and they would reply "yesterday."
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,284

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    You seem to have all these "classes" neatly pigeon holed.
    A telephone engineer nowadays is some sort of tech expert, mixing remote working on a keyboard with home visits and the like. Surely middle class, as HY says. Back when Burnham was being conceived, it would have been someone climbing up telegraph poles and fiddling about with wires and a toolbox in the street - less obviously middle class?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,578

    AnneJGP said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    I read only yesterday that there is some doubt whether multi-storey car parks will be strong enough if all the cars parked were to be electric vehicles. Strengthening them is going to be quite costly, I'd expect.
    More accurately, the problem is heavy vehicles rather than electric vehicles. My Nissan Leaf, for example, is around a ton lighter than a typical petrol or diesel powered Range Rover. Cars had been getting bigger and heavier for a long time before the advent of EVs.
    One reason for the increasingly obvious conversion of the original integral garages into studies, playrooms, messy rooms, etc. etc. in modern homes of the 1990s and 2000s? MY timber 1960s garage was far too small for a modern car - perfect excuse to rebuild in situ as a workshop (and potting shed/garden store for Mrs C).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,837
    edited 10:01AM
    Can any of our AI wallahs comment on whether this is a real photo or not? One of the children seems to have a put ankle deep in the ground, for one thing.

    This is from Councillor Darren Grimes, and the Reform Exposed argument is that he is using fake AI pictures to demonise immigrants (obviously Muslims, because reasons), by portraying groups of them ogling white children. It is a story about "Councils from rich areas" allegedly buying up or renting housing stock in Durham for immigrants, and Grimes is to my eye trying to exploit the "protect our girls" narrative, and attack the Labour Govt at the same time.

    I think that, if we remove the imo fake photo and the anti-immigrant stuff, he actually has a story. There was considerable lefty outrage (particularly in the Independent) in iirc the second half of the 2010s, around London Councils dispersing tenants who needed emergency housing as far away as Birmingham, under pressure (eg that if they did not accept they would not be offered something else). The objections then were around vulnerable people being ripped away from their communities, local support networks etc.

    It's still an issue at a low level over the last year or two (I've noticed occasional minor reports without cut-through), and I think this could be made into a serious mainstream political issue if reported accurately.

    But IMO Grimesy is overreaching again, and that is what will get him eventually in some manner.

    Reform Exposed: https://x.com/reformexposed/status/1991413666692862196
    Picture: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/G6JOKOSW0AA9dhI?format=jpg&name=large
    Grimes article: https://www.darrengrimes.com/p/exclusive-durham-files-prove-labour
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,578
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Sandpit said:

    An insult to jumped-up turds.

    Please, Wes Streeting is what all Brits should inspire to, a kid who grew up on a council estate and through sheer hard work went to Cambridge and is now on the cusp of Number 10, it confirms the UK is the best country in the world.
    Wes studied history at Cambridge. In that way, he is the Diane Abbott de nos jours, or at least he would be if Diane had retired. Maybe Wes is the new Michael Portillo, the heir presumptive who will be usurped by the king across the water, where that water is the Manchester Ship Canal via his own working class family and Cambridge.
    Burnham’s father was a telephone engineer and his mother a receptionist, he was lower middle class not working class like Streeting
    You seem to have all these "classes" neatly pigeon holed.
    A telephone engineer nowadays is some sort of tech expert, mixing remote working on a keyboard with home visits and the like. Surely middle class, as HY says. Back when Burnham was being conceived, it would have been someone climbing up telegraph poles and fiddling about with wires and a toolbox in the street - less obviously middle class?
    They still do the latter around here. At least at the moment.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,805
    Sandpit said:

    AnneJGP said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    I read only yesterday that there is some doubt whether multi-storey car parks will be strong enough if all the cars parked were to be electric vehicles. Strengthening them is going to be quite costly, I'd expect.
    There’s a lot of multi-storey car parks built in the ‘60s that assumed an average car weighed 700 or 800kg, as they did at the time, in their engineering calculations.

    Now they would have had perhaps a 3x safety factor, which you’d expect in such constructions, but now you have cars that weigh 3x what they did 60 years ago, and a 60-year-old structure that is close to it’s design life, there’s not an awful lot of margin left…
    Can they accomodate the higher roofs of SUVs OK? In Tokyo you have loads of parking options if you're driving an old-school car, because there are loads of mechanical ones that someone built expecting that cars would be a thing only to find anyone who wanted a big car got an SUV and anyone who wanted a little car got an N-van or some other high-roofed kei car. My Seal weight 2.2 tons and has a huge fat arse but it's still cheaper to park than an SUV.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,837
    AnneJGP said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    I read only yesterday that there is some doubt whether multi-storey car parks will be strong enough if all the cars parked were to be electric vehicles. Strengthening them is going to be quite costly, I'd expect.
    What an excellent opportunity to get rid of lots and lots and lots and lots of multi-storey car parks :smile: .
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,963
    edited 10:01AM
    Carnyx said:

    AnneJGP said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    I read only yesterday that there is some doubt whether multi-storey car parks will be strong enough if all the cars parked were to be electric vehicles. Strengthening them is going to be quite costly, I'd expect.
    More accurately, the problem is heavy vehicles rather than electric vehicles. My Nissan Leaf, for example, is around a ton lighter than a typical petrol or diesel powered Range Rover. Cars had been getting bigger and heavier for a long time before the advent of EVs.
    One reason for the increasingly obvious conversion of the original integral garages into studies, playrooms, messy rooms, etc. etc. in modern homes of the 1990s and 2000s? MY timber 1960s garage was far too small for a modern car - perfect excuse to rebuild in situ as a workshop (and potting shed/garden store for Mrs C).
    I think almost nobody uses a garage to store their car any more. Modern cars are perfectly capable of withstanding what the elements can throw at them, and most people value the storage space that a garage provides. Ours is also a storage area / workshop / potting shed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,343
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    No snow at the top of Nottinghamshire, but it's still brass monkeys on the temperature scale - Zero Centigrade.

    Snowing at the top of Nottinghamshire now.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,805
    edited 10:06AM
    MattW said:

    AnneJGP said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmm. The boss of Ford is demanding that Electric Vehicles "not be taxed" at this time. Surprise surprise !

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yp1ky55g1o

    Casually, I'm wondering if we could look at a similar system to that proposed for Council Tax for VED.

    VED to be a % of the purchase price per annum, which would raise the sums we need, but also incentivise smaller, safer for everyone, more cost effective vehicles.

    As a for instance, eg 1% of purchase price per annum, dropping to 0.5% from year 11 ? It has the benefit of being simple, but would cause a few squeals. The obvious problem is that such a simple system would be very generous for big SUVs, so purely linear with price might not work, so maybe 2% for heavier or more powerful vehicles.

    That's still only a fraction of what we have for the most polluting ICE personal vehicles, if I have my numbers correct. It's complex so I may not be correct on that.

    (I'm not sure on index linking; I can see arguments both sides.)

    I read only yesterday that there is some doubt whether multi-storey car parks will be strong enough if all the cars parked were to be electric vehicles. Strengthening them is going to be quite costly, I'd expect.
    What an excellent opportunity to get rid of lots and lots and lots and lots of multi-storey car parks :smile: .
    They're so beautiful though. Turn them into flats then order a load of these for the cars:
    https://www.shinmaywa.co.jp/products/parking/introduction/elepark/
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,455
    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    Carnyx said:

    Roger said:

    I love Wes Streeting, like me, he puts in subtle music references in his posts.



    https://x.com/wesstreeting/status/1991141529419678146

    I'd block any politician selling themselves in a high viz jacket from standing.
    That's, er, um, as logical as banning pols in lanyards. It's impossible to visit some workplaces (ie where real people work) without wearing them.

    Edit: ditto eye shields.
    I think you missed the line 'selling themselves'. I object on two grounds.

    1. it reminds me of Johnson

    2. it reminds me of Thatcher on a tank

    Maybe I should have widened it to inappropriate props
    On 1, er, well, you may have a point.

    On 2, I think you misremember. Like John Major (IIRC) Mrs T didn't dress up in combats - though in the modern era one does need a helmet for safety as Ms Truss exemplifies (lots of pointy sharp bits inside a tank - not sure about the flak jacket).

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/britain-uk-liz-truss-prime-minister-margaret-thatcher-boris-joshnson-rcna45838

    That takes me back! (not in a good way I should say!)

    PS. Did you say she didn't dress up? She's gone the full Lawrence of Arabia!

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MilitaryPorn/comments/5mo43i/margaret_thatcher_in_the_commanders_hatch_of_a/
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