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Present Keirs are less than horrible imaginings – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,792
edited 7:47AM in General
Present Keirs are less than horrible imaginings – politicalbetting.com

? / With less than six months until the Scottish Parliament election, the SNP are the party Scots are most likely to consider voting forSNP: 37% would considerGreens: 27%Lib Dems: 26%Labour: 23%Reform UK: 21%Conservatives: 15%'Your Party': 15%Alba: 8%yougov.co.uk/politics/art…

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Comments

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,016
    First
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 36,016
    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,571
    Quite something for a Labour leader to be materially less popular than both Nigel and Kemi - in Scotland.

    The Labour brand is shot. Mostly in the feet, but also in the back.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,425
    The headline writer is decidedly fond of the Scottish play, recently.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,889
    Wot, no new morning in North Britain for Nigel Farage’s Reform? Some mistake surely?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,889
    Specifically on topic, Scotland is just one of Labour’s fck ups. With a little strategic nous Sir Keir and Anas could have cobbled together artificially different paths so the latter’s bleats about standing up for Scotland might have been believed by someone not the political editor of the Daily Record.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,268
    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Perhaps he might make a half-decent local councillor?
  • isamisam Posts: 43,006
    edited 8:04AM
    I posed the question to Alastair/Antifrank ‘At what price is Farage value as next PM?’, as I have laid almost everyone and began to wonder if Sir Keir being removed before the next election might be being oversold now. Farage is now 7.6 having traded 3.2, drifting not because he is less likely to be PM after the next GE, but due to the problems of the Labour leadership.

    Everything has its price!

    Starmer is 5/2 to lead Labour at the next GE, 1/3 not to. I get the feeling backing things to stay the same at odds against is probably a decent strategy in political betting, but could be wrong here I suppose
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,976
    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Perhaps he might make a half-decent local councillor?
    If he hadn't defunded local trading standards officers...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,961
    18% of Yes voters and 14% of Remain voters would consider voting Reform!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,530
    Given the SNP got 47% on the constituency vote in 2021 there will likely be a swing from SNP to Labour still at Holyrood next year. Even more so from SNP to Reform
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,150
    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Mercedes continue to fall, down to 4.5 for Russell and 7.5 for Antonelli to win the race. They're 3.5 and 7.5 for qualifying, and if Russell ends up on pole should be hedgeable.

    Rain could make things peculiar. Race especially could be a mess as grip's already very low.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,530

    Quite something for a Labour leader to be materially less popular than both Nigel and Kemi - in Scotland.

    The Labour brand is shot. Mostly in the feet, but also in the back.

    Sarwar isn't only Starmer
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,383
    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Fair play to him. It’s a horrible crime for those affected, who suddenly need to put their hand in their pocket for hundreds or even thousands just so they can go and work the next day.

    It’s pretty surprising that the police and trading standards didn’t blitz the first dodgy car boot sale the following weekend, nothing about it looked like legitimate activity.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,976
    It looks like the Danish Government might lose Copenhagen due to its shift to the right:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/18/centre-left-tipped-to-lose-copenhagen-for-first-time-in-electoral-history?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    One for Labour to take note of.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,889
    HYUFD said:

    Quite something for a Labour leader to be materially less popular than both Nigel and Kemi - in Scotland.

    The Labour brand is shot. Mostly in the feet, but also in the back.

    Sarwar isn't only Starmer
    What else is he?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,976

    18% of Yes voters and 14% of Remain voters would consider voting Reform!

    Thats where the recent polling of Reform voters by sub-tribe was interesting. Some of the subtribes were at odds with the party policy. "Contrarian Youth" were hardly bothered by immigration for example.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,383

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Mercedes continue to fall, down to 4.5 for Russell and 7.5 for Antonelli to win the race. They're 3.5 and 7.5 for qualifying, and if Russell ends up on pole should be hedgeable.

    Rain could make things peculiar. Race especially could be a mess as grip's already very low.

    Russell almost looks like value at 4.5, given how the Mercedes dominated in Vegas last year.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,438
    isam said:

    I posed the question to Alastair/Antifrank ‘At what price is Farage value as next PM?’, as I have laid almost everyone and began to wonder if Sir Keir being removed before the next election might be being oversold now. Farage is now 7.6 having traded 3.2, drifting not because he is less likely to be PM after the next GE, but due to the problems of the Labour leadership.

    Everything has its price!

    Starmer is 5/2 to lead Labour at the next GE, 1/3 not to. I get the feeling backing things to stay the same at odds against is probably a decent strategy in political betting, but could be wrong here I suppose

    Agree. Look at the chain of events that are set in motion if the party does try to try to get rid of Starmer. They (Lab) are rolling along the bottom of the polls. Any change in leadership will be accompanied by calls to secure legitimacy via the national polls and you don't have to be John Curtice to work out what that would mean for Lab and all its MPs know that (although there are doubtless many of the awkward squad who would like to bring down the building around them "on principle"). So by destabilising what is already a rickety structure they could possibly end up not only with no Sir Keir, but with not being in government.

    Sounds unlikely in the real world but possible and hence backint the status quo is I think right call, notwithstanding the next GE is (which I appreciate is built into the call) years and years away.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,961
    edited 8:17AM
    https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/11/over-74000-people-were-kicked-out-of-clinical-trials-because-of-trump-cuts/

    “When the Trump administration brutally cut federal funding for biomedical research earlier this year, at least 383 clinical trials that were already in progress were abruptly cancelled, cutting off over 74,000 trial participants from their experimental treatments, monitoring, or follow-ups, according to a study published today in JAMA Internal Medicine.”
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,150
    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Mercedes continue to fall, down to 4.5 for Russell and 7.5 for Antonelli to win the race. They're 3.5 and 7.5 for qualifying, and if Russell ends up on pole should be hedgeable.

    Rain could make things peculiar. Race especially could be a mess as grip's already very low.

    Russell almost looks like value at 4.5, given how the Mercedes dominated in Vegas last year.
    Aye. Content, for now, with the 7.5 I've got on him, and 12 on Antonelli. If they have a very solid qualifying may hedge the pair of them.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 18,420
    Nigelb said:

    The headline writer is decidedly fond of the Scottish play, recently.

    "What bloody man is that ?" would seem appropriate for the topic.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,635

    https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/11/over-74000-people-were-kicked-out-of-clinical-trials-because-of-trump-cuts/

    “When the Trump administration brutally cut federal funding for biomedical research earlier this year, at least 383 clinical trials that were already in progress were abruptly cancelled, cutting off over 74,000 trial participants from their experimental treatments, monitoring, or follow-ups, according to a study published today in JAMA Internal Medicine.”

    That might have been the last hope for some of those people . It highlights the cesspit of cruelty at the heart of the current US administration. Without a single shred of humanity or empathy .
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,812
    edited 8:28AM
    FF43 said:

    Nigelb said:

    The headline writer is decidedly fond of the Scottish play, recently.

    "What bloody man is that ?" would seem appropriate for the topic.
    Already been used.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/04/29/what-bloody-man-is-that-stands-scotland-where-it-did/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,058
    nico67 said:

    https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/11/over-74000-people-were-kicked-out-of-clinical-trials-because-of-trump-cuts/

    “When the Trump administration brutally cut federal funding for biomedical research earlier this year, at least 383 clinical trials that were already in progress were abruptly cancelled, cutting off over 74,000 trial participants from their experimental treatments, monitoring, or follow-ups, according to a study published today in JAMA Internal Medicine.”

    That might have been the last hope for some of those people . It highlights the cesspit of cruelty at the heart of the current US administration. Without a single shred of humanity or empathy .
    Bit harsh on cesspits.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,268
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Perhaps he might make a half-decent local councillor?
    If he hadn't defunded local trading standards officers...
    Yes, and I also recall his dodginess on planning matters. Perhaps I was too hasty and have over-rated him.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,812

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Mercedes continue to fall, down to 4.5 for Russell and 7.5 for Antonelli to win the race. They're 3.5 and 7.5 for qualifying, and if Russell ends up on pole should be hedgeable.

    Rain could make things peculiar. Race especially could be a mess as grip's already very low.

    Russell almost looks like value at 4.5, given how the Mercedes dominated in Vegas last year.
    Aye. Content, for now, with the 7.5 I've got on him, and 12 on Antonelli. If they have a very solid qualifying may hedge the pair of them.
    I have a feeling that Mercedes will win both titles next year.

    Cannot wait for the markets to open.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,398
    edited 8:26AM
    I am running in 2026 but with a delayed start to campaigning to get my head into a better place. 2025 has been horrible, hoping for more fun and less grief in 2026.

    Anyway, Movember update! I'm up to £707 raised still with 40% or so of the month left. That's a real positive!

    Tache is already bristly, and I have more to grow. Might need beard oil or something to try and condition it as this is getting silly already.

    Whats next? I am giving myself 2 full weeks fully off over Christmas. Grow a beard maybe...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,812
    edited 8:27AM
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Perhaps he might make a half-decent local councillor?
    If he hadn't defunded local trading standards officers...
    Yes, and I also recall his dodginess on planning matters. Perhaps I was too hasty and have over-rated him.
    I have a Robert Jenrick thread coming up in the next few days.

    It may prove controversial.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 41,028
    @internethippo.bsky.social‬

    A knock-on effect of Trump suddenly looking weak is people feel emboldened to push back against his flunkies too. Turns out the media knows exactly how to do this when they want to

    https://bsky.app/profile/internethippo.bsky.social/post/3m5rhej42gk2j
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,268
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I posed the question to Alastair/Antifrank ‘At what price is Farage value as next PM?’, as I have laid almost everyone and began to wonder if Sir Keir being removed before the next election might be being oversold now. Farage is now 7.6 having traded 3.2, drifting not because he is less likely to be PM after the next GE, but due to the problems of the Labour leadership.

    Everything has its price!

    Starmer is 5/2 to lead Labour at the next GE, 1/3 not to. I get the feeling backing things to stay the same at odds against is probably a decent strategy in political betting, but could be wrong here I suppose

    Agree. Look at the chain of events that are set in motion if the party does try to try to get rid of Starmer. They (Lab) are rolling along the bottom of the polls. Any change in leadership will be accompanied by calls to secure legitimacy via the national polls and you don't have to be John Curtice to work out what that would mean for Lab and all its MPs know that (although there are doubtless many of the awkward squad who would like to bring down the building around them "on principle"). So by destabilising what is already a rickety structure they could possibly end up not only with no Sir Keir, but with not being in government.

    Sounds unlikely in the real world but possible and hence backint the status quo is I think right call, notwithstanding the next GE is (which I appreciate is built into the call) years and years away.
    I have made money laying Starmer's year of departure as 2025, and maybe the 1.91 lay on 2026 is worth a nibble? That only requires him to endure another year, not make it all the way through to the next GE
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,058
    Scott_xP said:
    He lost it a long, long time ago.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,812
    edited 8:32AM

    https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/11/over-74000-people-were-kicked-out-of-clinical-trials-because-of-trump-cuts/

    “When the Trump administration brutally cut federal funding for biomedical research earlier this year, at least 383 clinical trials that were already in progress were abruptly cancelled, cutting off over 74,000 trial participants from their experimental treatments, monitoring, or follow-ups, according to a study published today in JAMA Internal Medicine.”

    He's an absolute terrorist.

    I have a friend who works in disease tracking and he says the cutting of American funding will mean if we have a repeat of the 2014 West African Ebola outbreak then it will be too late to do anything in the West.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,806
    edited 8:34AM
    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,806
    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.


    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    He'll stop when it is no longer of perceived political benefit to him.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,956
    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Perhaps he might make a half-decent local councillor?
    Councillor Jenricks has a certain ring to it, and sums up the mentality quite well.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,341
    TOPPING said:

    isam said:

    I posed the question to Alastair/Antifrank ‘At what price is Farage value as next PM?’, as I have laid almost everyone and began to wonder if Sir Keir being removed before the next election might be being oversold now. Farage is now 7.6 having traded 3.2, drifting not because he is less likely to be PM after the next GE, but due to the problems of the Labour leadership.

    Everything has its price!

    Starmer is 5/2 to lead Labour at the next GE, 1/3 not to. I get the feeling backing things to stay the same at odds against is probably a decent strategy in political betting, but could be wrong here I suppose

    Agree. Look at the chain of events that are set in motion if the party does try to try to get rid of Starmer. They (Lab) are rolling along the bottom of the polls. Any change in leadership will be accompanied by calls to secure legitimacy via the national polls and you don't have to be John Curtice to work out what that would mean for Lab and all its MPs know that (although there are doubtless many of the awkward squad who would like to bring down the building around them "on principle"). So by destabilising what is already a rickety structure they could possibly end up not only with no Sir Keir, but with not being in government.

    Sounds unlikely in the real world but possible and hence backint the status quo is I think right call, notwithstanding the next GE is (which I appreciate is built into the call) years and years away.
    Calls for a GE, yes. but no government with a big majority would obey calls for a GE forthwith.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,268
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,398
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,812
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    From the MOT mileage figure?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,517

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Wha?

    Ah ...

    "Tesco told the Daily Mail: 'We are at Tesco and have a range of real and artificial Christmas trees in store as part of a wide selection of Christmas products to help our customers celebrate Christmas this year.'

    It said it is called an 'evergreen tree' to make it clear the type of Christmas tree inside the box."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15299775/Britons-rage-woke-Tescos-decision-rename-Christmas-trees-evergreen-trees.html

    "Susan Hall, leader of the Conservatives in the London Assembly, was vocal about her thoughts on social media, writing on X: 'Wretched ridiculous nonsense, call it what it is, it's a Christmas tree. There, I said it out loud. I'm fed up with all this woke stupidity.'"
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,338

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,383

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    From the MOT mileage figure?
    How many Irish-registered EVs will turn up in Scotland if they go ahead with this plan?
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,550

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    From the MOT mileage figure?
    What about the first three years?
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,398
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Wha?

    Ah ...

    "Tesco told the Daily Mail: 'We are at Tesco and have a range of real and artificial Christmas trees in store as part of a wide selection of Christmas products to help our customers celebrate Christmas this year.'

    It said it is called an 'evergreen tree' to make it clear the type of Christmas tree inside the box."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15299775/Britons-rage-woke-Tescos-decision-rename-Christmas-trees-evergreen-trees.html

    "Susan Hall, leader of the Conservatives in the London Assembly, was vocal about her thoughts on social media, writing on X: 'Wretched ridiculous nonsense, call it what it is, it's a Christmas tree. There, I said it out loud. I'm fed up with all this woke stupidity.'"
    Call this out for what it is. She knows the truth, but expects that people listening to her are stupid. So she and all the rest of the grifters openly lie.

    What has been genuinely entertaining is that the first picture of the "Evergreen Tree" boxes was heavily cropped. To exclude the "Merry Christmas" pallet wrap they were stood in. And the range of other types of tree - glitter, snow covered, lit etc.

    To listen to her, all chocolate bars should be called "Chocolate". Because calling out the variations is a plot to impose Sharia law or something.

    Best post? The utter wazzock foaming on about a surbey claiming the majority of Brits will shun turkey for Christmas Dinner and eat another meat. "Brits have eaten Turkey for Christmas for 2,000 years" he claimed.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,150

    Sandpit said:

    Good morning, everyone.

    F1: Mercedes continue to fall, down to 4.5 for Russell and 7.5 for Antonelli to win the race. They're 3.5 and 7.5 for qualifying, and if Russell ends up on pole should be hedgeable.

    Rain could make things peculiar. Race especially could be a mess as grip's already very low.

    Russell almost looks like value at 4.5, given how the Mercedes dominated in Vegas last year.
    Aye. Content, for now, with the 7.5 I've got on him, and 12 on Antonelli. If they have a very solid qualifying may hedge the pair of them.
    I have a feeling that Mercedes will win both titles next year.

    Cannot wait for the markets to open.
    Russell's odds is going to be the main thing I'm looking at when 2026 gets its market. Alonso's another.

    I suspect McLaren will get the Constructors', but I might see what the Williams odds are (especially if there's an each way, which there probably won't be for teams, but we'll see).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 58,573
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Perhaps he might make a half-decent local councillor?
    If he hadn't defunded local trading standards officers...
    Yes, and I also recall his dodginess on planning matters. Perhaps I was too hasty and have over-rated him.
    Tool theft and public resale was one of the crimes that the courts and police “decrimed” all the way back to New Labour, if not before.

    There was a moderate famous (in the building industry) moment when several small firms turned up at the same time to reclaim tools with their stamps on them, at a certain East End market. The local council called the police in - to stop them taking back their tools.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,425

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Perhaps he might make a half-decent local councillor?
    If he hadn't defunded local trading standards officers...
    Yes, and I also recall his dodginess on planning matters. Perhaps I was too hasty and have over-rated him.
    I have a Robert Jenrick thread coming up in the next few days.

    It may prove controversial.
    He wants the natural touch.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,268

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Perhaps he might make a half-decent local councillor?
    If he hadn't defunded local trading standards officers...
    Yes, and I also recall his dodginess on planning matters. Perhaps I was too hasty and have over-rated him.
    Tool theft and public resale was one of the crimes that the courts and police “decrimed” all the way back to New Labour, if not before.

    There was a moderate famous (in the building industry) moment when several small firms turned up at the same time to reclaim tools with their stamps on them, at a certain East End market. The local council called the police in - to stop them taking back their tools.
    Tool theft would be if Jenrick is stolen away by Reform?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,058

    Best post? The utter wazzock foaming on about a surbey claiming the majority of Brits will shun turkey for Christmas Dinner and eat another meat. "Brits have eaten Turkey for Christmas for 2,000 years" he claimed.

    That's funny, and rather sad, in about equal measure.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,797
    isam said:

    Whether it’s driven by a genuine concern or not, Robert Jenrick’s videos on fare evasion, and now selling stolen goods, at least show he is aware of the smaller, everyday problems that political parties often ignore

    Sunday, 7am. Another car boot sale suspected of selling stolen tools.

    This time, the sellers packed up and scarpered as soon as they saw us.

    I’ll stop when tradesmen are no longer losing their livelihoods.



    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1990678236397707500?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Why didn't he start when he was in power is the question he can't answer.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,806
    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,433
    edited 9:07AM
    Bubble bubble toil and trouble
    Till Andy Burnham comes to Dunsinane
    Labour are screwed........
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,797
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
    Why does the replacement tax have to come from cars?

    For me social media is the biggest new "sin" industry, and should be treated like gambling, alcohol and cigarettes, tax that instead.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,806
    edited 9:12AM

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Doing my bit to help:

    I make it about 10p per mile (plus inflation from now) by 2035 to make up what will be lost from each petrol / diesel vehicle.

    And we get cleaner air as well; what's not to like?

    But, like middle aged men, they should also be taxed on weight and noise.


    (I saw the 'tache, Speedy Gonzales". It explains a lot - like why you don't wear a one !)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,945
    edited 9:09AM
    nico67 said:

    https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/11/over-74000-people-were-kicked-out-of-clinical-trials-because-of-trump-cuts/

    “When the Trump administration brutally cut federal funding for biomedical research earlier this year, at least 383 clinical trials that were already in progress were abruptly cancelled, cutting off over 74,000 trial participants from their experimental treatments, monitoring, or follow-ups, according to a study published today in JAMA Internal Medicine.”

    That might have been the last hope for some of those people . It highlights the cesspit of cruelty at the heart of the current US administration. Without a single shred of humanity or empathy .
    But Elon assures us that empathy is the woke disease rotting our society.
    And he inherited a diamond mine, so his opinion needs to be treated with awed respect.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,812

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    From the MOT mileage figure?
    What about the first three years?
    From the annual service.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,666
    Roger said:

    Bubble bubble toil and trouble
    Till Andy Burnham comes to Dunsinane
    Labour are screwed........

    Old Jokes (one about Harold Willsoon) revisited;

    Surely no Labour politician is going to go out of their way to undermine a Labour Prime Minister?

    Oh, Burnham would...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,517

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
    Why does the replacement tax have to come from cars?

    For me social media is the biggest new "sin" industry, and should be treated like gambling, alcohol and cigarettes, tax that instead.
    Interesting idea.

    They will probably argue taxing it would be against the principles laid down in the 1850s-ish, of not taxing knowledge - which is when the taxes on print, paper, books, newspapers etc. were abolished.

    Of course, if they argue that, then they can't say no to becoming liable for the content, like any print publisher.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,945

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Wha?

    Ah ...

    "Tesco told the Daily Mail: 'We are at Tesco and have a range of real and artificial Christmas trees in store as part of a wide selection of Christmas products to help our customers celebrate Christmas this year.'

    It said it is called an 'evergreen tree' to make it clear the type of Christmas tree inside the box."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15299775/Britons-rage-woke-Tescos-decision-rename-Christmas-trees-evergreen-trees.html

    "Susan Hall, leader of the Conservatives in the London Assembly, was vocal about her thoughts on social media, writing on X: 'Wretched ridiculous nonsense, call it what it is, it's a Christmas tree. There, I said it out loud. I'm fed up with all this woke stupidity.'"
    Call this out for what it is. She knows the truth, but expects that people listening to her are stupid. So she and all the rest of the grifters openly lie.

    What has been genuinely entertaining is that the first picture of the "Evergreen Tree" boxes was heavily cropped. To exclude the "Merry Christmas" pallet wrap they were stood in. And the range of other types of tree - glitter, snow covered, lit etc.

    To listen to her, all chocolate bars should be called "Chocolate". Because calling out the variations is a plot to impose Sharia law or something.

    Best post? The utter wazzock foaming on about a surbey claiming the majority of Brits will shun turkey for Christmas Dinner and eat another meat. "Brits have eaten Turkey for Christmas for 2,000 years" he claimed.
    Wait till he hears about the ones who won't eat meat at all.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,880
    edited 9:17AM
    I cannot help but feel dismay at this polling and it is probably the Greens being at 27% that dismays me the most. Scottish education has plunged new depths over the period of the SNP administration but that so many of my countrymen and women are so incapable of even the most basic analysis or assessment of Scotland's needs is just appalling.

    In the UK or out of it, its very difficult to see a viable path going forward. JM Barrie once said "there are few more impressive sights than a Scotsman on the make." What have we done to ourselves and our children?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,797
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Doing my bit to help:

    I make it about 10p per mile (plus inflation from now) by 2035 to make up what will be lost from each petrol / diesel vehicle.

    And we get cleaner air as well; what's not to like.

    But, like middle aged men, they should also be taxed on weight and noise.
    A London variant, but I drive from central London to St Albans regularly which is about 26 miles directly and 45 miles via the M11. The M11 route is normally quicker, uses similar amounts of fuel as travelling at sensible speeds rather than constant stop/start 20mph. It is not unusual in London to completely avoid the straight as the crow flies routes in search of faster moving, less congested roads.

    Tax per mile would increase congestion in the suburbs and therefore air pollution here.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,797
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
    Why does the replacement tax have to come from cars?

    For me social media is the biggest new "sin" industry, and should be treated like gambling, alcohol and cigarettes, tax that instead.
    Interesting idea.

    They will probably argue taxing it would be against the principles laid down in the 1850s-ish, of not taxing knowledge - which is when the taxes on print, paper, books, newspapers etc. were abolished.

    Of course, if they argue that, then they can't say no to becoming liable for the content, like any print publisher.
    Social media is negative knowledge, so by not taxing social media we are effectively taxing knowledge.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,666
    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
    Usual three options:

    1 replace fuel duty with another tax on vehicle use of that sort of scale

    2 replace fuel duty with £3000 per household or so of other taxes

    3 find £3000 per household or so of spending cuts.

    Part of our problem is that "taxing bad things to discourage them" has got over-tangled with "taxing things because the sort of society we want costs".
  • isamisam Posts: 43,006
    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
  • eekeek Posts: 31,946

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
    Usual three options:

    1 replace fuel duty with another tax on vehicle use of that sort of scale

    2 replace fuel duty with £3000 per household or so of other taxes

    3 find £3000 per household or so of spending cuts.

    Part of our problem is that "taxing bad things to discourage them" has got over-tangled with "taxing things because the sort of society we want costs".
    I would be knocking down fuel duty and applying the per mile tax to all cars. So you would end up saving 10p so on petrol but paying 25p on mileage instead
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,571
    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    It's about the only one they haven't failed to live up to...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,806
    edited 9:25AM

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
    Why does the replacement tax have to come from cars?

    For me social media is the biggest new "sin" industry, and should be treated like gambling, alcohol and cigarettes, tax that instead.
    It's not from cars; it's from vehicles. I see no problem with retaining current levels of taxation, or increasing them to catch up with where we would be if we had not had a cash-level-freeze on fuel duty for nearly 15 years. And the impact on society of motor vehicles has many very negative effects.

    For me we need to improve things like driver training and our various systems, and encourage alternatives whilst making them possible (which requires changes in driver behaviour) - so there's an element of Pigou tax in it. But that is a philosophy change, and that argument is not imowon, yet.

    I think one interesting point is that I would consider making the per mile charge retrospective.

    On the social media I agree with you; that surely should be via the existing Digital Service Levy - which raises around 1 billion per annum. I think they are all keeping quiet until Mr Trump pops his clogs or is safely in a secure hospital, but then Europe will move approximately together.

    For something contentious, I'd consider whacking a hard-wired 80mph max on everything. Plus tackling the Sur Ron etc supply chain properly.

    (Things to do today, so I'm not doing a Bart-theology debate.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,571
    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Wha?

    Ah ...

    "Tesco told the Daily Mail: 'We are at Tesco and have a range of real and artificial Christmas trees in store as part of a wide selection of Christmas products to help our customers celebrate Christmas this year.'

    It said it is called an 'evergreen tree' to make it clear the type of Christmas tree inside the box."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15299775/Britons-rage-woke-Tescos-decision-rename-Christmas-trees-evergreen-trees.html

    "Susan Hall, leader of the Conservatives in the London Assembly, was vocal about her thoughts on social media, writing on X: 'Wretched ridiculous nonsense, call it what it is, it's a Christmas tree. There, I said it out loud. I'm fed up with all this woke stupidity.'"
    Call this out for what it is. She knows the truth, but expects that people listening to her are stupid. So she and all the rest of the grifters openly lie.

    What has been genuinely entertaining is that the first picture of the "Evergreen Tree" boxes was heavily cropped. To exclude the "Merry Christmas" pallet wrap they were stood in. And the range of other types of tree - glitter, snow covered, lit etc.

    To listen to her, all chocolate bars should be called "Chocolate". Because calling out the variations is a plot to impose Sharia law or something.

    Best post? The utter wazzock foaming on about a surbey claiming the majority of Brits will shun turkey for Christmas Dinner and eat another meat. "Brits have eaten Turkey for Christmas for 2,000 years" he claimed.
    Wait till he hears about the ones who won't eat meat at all.
    They will call for the eating of vegetarians. That will teach them to be fussy!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,797
    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    There is no point changing leader at the moment. There is still further bad news to come even if they are bold enough to make tougher decisions like yesterdays across the board including on tax.

    I think it would be reasonable to change leaders in search of an electoral boost in the second half of 2027 giving the new leader 12-18 months.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,889

    18% of Yes voters and 14% of Remain voters would consider voting Reform!

    22% of No voters would consider voting SNP and 18% Green.

    I've read that Yougov weigh their Scottish polling heavily on 2014 no/yes vote recall without considering any demographic change considered (eg death). If so I'm not sure if this is a sound basis for current analysis.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,666

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    There is no point changing leader at the moment. There is still further bad news to come even if they are bold enough to make tougher decisions like yesterdays across the board including on tax.

    I think it would be reasonable to change leaders in search of an electoral boost in the second half of 2027 giving the new leader 12-18 months.
    It also gives someone new sufficient time to come through the ranks.

    Who knows, they might even be halfway good.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,880

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    There is no point changing leader at the moment. There is still further bad news to come even if they are bold enough to make tougher decisions like yesterdays across the board including on tax.

    I think it would be reasonable to change leaders in search of an electoral boost in the second half of 2027 giving the new leader 12-18 months.
    This only makes sense if they actually do something useful with the period that SKS has left. I see very little sign of that happening.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,797
    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    There is no point changing leader at the moment. There is still further bad news to come even if they are bold enough to make tougher decisions like yesterdays across the board including on tax.

    I think it would be reasonable to change leaders in search of an electoral boost in the second half of 2027 giving the new leader 12-18 months.
    This only makes sense if they actually do something useful with the period that SKS has left. I see very little sign of that happening.
    Yesterdays announcement was a reasonable attempt at something useful. As would a budget where they actually raise more money rather than just faff around at the margins. We can only wait and see.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,806
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
    Why does the replacement tax have to come from cars?

    For me social media is the biggest new "sin" industry, and should be treated like gambling, alcohol and cigarettes, tax that instead.
    Interesting idea.

    They will probably argue taxing it would be against the principles laid down in the 1850s-ish, of not taxing knowledge - which is when the taxes on print, paper, books, newspapers etc. were abolished.

    Of course, if they argue that, then they can't say no to becoming liable for the content, like any print publisher.
    It's already taxed (see my other comment) via the DST.

    For something more targeted, more thought is needed. We have problems with policing it already due to imprecise targetting, but the issue still needs - imo - to be addressed.

    Yesterday, I saw a video of one of the Reform chaps wazzocking on in Parliament about "locked up for hurty words" with reference to Lucy Connolly, ie repeating one of the routine lies. I think it was Rupert *.

    He did not say anything about the "round Britain charity rowers" invading Great Yarmouth in a small boat, this time.

    * Yes, I know, but he is no different from the rest of them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,383

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    There is no point changing leader at the moment. There is still further bad news to come even if they are bold enough to make tougher decisions like yesterdays across the board including on tax.

    I think it would be reasonable to change leaders in search of an electoral boost in the second half of 2027 giving the new leader 12-18 months.
    This only makes sense if they actually do something useful with the period that SKS has left. I see very little sign of that happening.
    Yesterdays announcement was a reasonable attempt at something useful. As would a budget where they actually raise more money rather than just faff around at the margins. We can only wait and see.
    Having denied most of a month’s worth of leaks and kite-flying, does Rachel have anything left that isn’t just more faffing around at the margins?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,058

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Wha?

    Ah ...

    "Tesco told the Daily Mail: 'We are at Tesco and have a range of real and artificial Christmas trees in store as part of a wide selection of Christmas products to help our customers celebrate Christmas this year.'

    It said it is called an 'evergreen tree' to make it clear the type of Christmas tree inside the box."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15299775/Britons-rage-woke-Tescos-decision-rename-Christmas-trees-evergreen-trees.html

    "Susan Hall, leader of the Conservatives in the London Assembly, was vocal about her thoughts on social media, writing on X: 'Wretched ridiculous nonsense, call it what it is, it's a Christmas tree. There, I said it out loud. I'm fed up with all this woke stupidity.'"
    Call this out for what it is. She knows the truth, but expects that people listening to her are stupid. So she and all the rest of the grifters openly lie.

    What has been genuinely entertaining is that the first picture of the "Evergreen Tree" boxes was heavily cropped. To exclude the "Merry Christmas" pallet wrap they were stood in. And the range of other types of tree - glitter, snow covered, lit etc.

    To listen to her, all chocolate bars should be called "Chocolate". Because calling out the variations is a plot to impose Sharia law or something.

    Best post? The utter wazzock foaming on about a surbey claiming the majority of Brits will shun turkey for Christmas Dinner and eat another meat. "Brits have eaten Turkey for Christmas for 2,000 years" he claimed.
    Wait till he hears about the ones who won't eat meat at all.
    They will call for the eating of vegetarians. That will teach them to be fussy!
    That would be a bad idea. Vegetarians have no taste.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,517
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Wha?

    Ah ...

    "Tesco told the Daily Mail: 'We are at Tesco and have a range of real and artificial Christmas trees in store as part of a wide selection of Christmas products to help our customers celebrate Christmas this year.'

    It said it is called an 'evergreen tree' to make it clear the type of Christmas tree inside the box."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15299775/Britons-rage-woke-Tescos-decision-rename-Christmas-trees-evergreen-trees.html

    "Susan Hall, leader of the Conservatives in the London Assembly, was vocal about her thoughts on social media, writing on X: 'Wretched ridiculous nonsense, call it what it is, it's a Christmas tree. There, I said it out loud. I'm fed up with all this woke stupidity.'"
    Call this out for what it is. She knows the truth, but expects that people listening to her are stupid. So she and all the rest of the grifters openly lie.

    What has been genuinely entertaining is that the first picture of the "Evergreen Tree" boxes was heavily cropped. To exclude the "Merry Christmas" pallet wrap they were stood in. And the range of other types of tree - glitter, snow covered, lit etc.

    To listen to her, all chocolate bars should be called "Chocolate". Because calling out the variations is a plot to impose Sharia law or something.

    Best post? The utter wazzock foaming on about a surbey claiming the majority of Brits will shun turkey for Christmas Dinner and eat another meat. "Brits have eaten Turkey for Christmas for 2,000 years" he claimed.
    Wait till he hears about the ones who won't eat meat at all.
    They will call for the eating of vegetarians. That will teach them to be fussy!
    That would be a bad idea. Vegetarians have no taste.
    Not even Aberdeen or wagyu ones?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,058
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Wha?

    Ah ...

    "Tesco told the Daily Mail: 'We are at Tesco and have a range of real and artificial Christmas trees in store as part of a wide selection of Christmas products to help our customers celebrate Christmas this year.'

    It said it is called an 'evergreen tree' to make it clear the type of Christmas tree inside the box."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15299775/Britons-rage-woke-Tescos-decision-rename-Christmas-trees-evergreen-trees.html

    "Susan Hall, leader of the Conservatives in the London Assembly, was vocal about her thoughts on social media, writing on X: 'Wretched ridiculous nonsense, call it what it is, it's a Christmas tree. There, I said it out loud. I'm fed up with all this woke stupidity.'"
    Call this out for what it is. She knows the truth, but expects that people listening to her are stupid. So she and all the rest of the grifters openly lie.

    What has been genuinely entertaining is that the first picture of the "Evergreen Tree" boxes was heavily cropped. To exclude the "Merry Christmas" pallet wrap they were stood in. And the range of other types of tree - glitter, snow covered, lit etc.

    To listen to her, all chocolate bars should be called "Chocolate". Because calling out the variations is a plot to impose Sharia law or something.

    Best post? The utter wazzock foaming on about a surbey claiming the majority of Brits will shun turkey for Christmas Dinner and eat another meat. "Brits have eaten Turkey for Christmas for 2,000 years" he claimed.
    Wait till he hears about the ones who won't eat meat at all.
    They will call for the eating of vegetarians. That will teach them to be fussy!
    That would be a bad idea. Vegetarians have no taste.
    Not even Aberdeen or wagyu ones?
    Not even ones trying to curry favour.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,797
    edited 9:36AM
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    There is no point changing leader at the moment. There is still further bad news to come even if they are bold enough to make tougher decisions like yesterdays across the board including on tax.

    I think it would be reasonable to change leaders in search of an electoral boost in the second half of 2027 giving the new leader 12-18 months.
    This only makes sense if they actually do something useful with the period that SKS has left. I see very little sign of that happening.
    Yesterdays announcement was a reasonable attempt at something useful. As would a budget where they actually raise more money rather than just faff around at the margins. We can only wait and see.
    Having denied most of a month’s worth of leaks and kite-flying, does Rachel have anything left that isn’t just more faffing around at the margins?
    Next year, and all years after that, don't talk to the press about the budget at all. Until it happens, obviously.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,354
    edited 9:36AM
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    There is no point changing leader at the moment. There is still further bad news to come even if they are bold enough to make tougher decisions like yesterdays across the board including on tax.

    I think it would be reasonable to change leaders in search of an electoral boost in the second half of 2027 giving the new leader 12-18 months.
    This only makes sense if they actually do something useful with the period that SKS has left. I see very little sign of that happening.
    Yesterdays announcement was a reasonable attempt at something useful. As would a budget where they actually raise more money rather than just faff around at the margins. We can only wait and see.
    Having denied most of a month’s worth of leaks and kite-flying, does Rachel have anything left that isn’t just more faffing around at the margins?
    She could take a chainsaw to public spending, like Milei
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 76,058
    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    There is no point changing leader at the moment. There is still further bad news to come even if they are bold enough to make tougher decisions like yesterdays across the board including on tax.

    I think it would be reasonable to change leaders in search of an electoral boost in the second half of 2027 giving the new leader 12-18 months.
    This only makes sense if they actually do something useful with the period that SKS has left. I see very little sign of that happening.
    Yesterdays announcement was a reasonable attempt at something useful. As would a budget where they actually raise more money rather than just faff around at the margins. We can only wait and see.
    Having denied most of a month’s worth of leaks and kite-flying, does Rachel have anything left that isn’t just more faffing around at the margins?
    She could take a chainsaw to public spending, Like Milei
    I would have thought channelling Elon Musk (because let's face it, how many ordinary people have heard of Milei?) would be an even quicker way to lose popularity.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,517
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
    Why does the replacement tax have to come from cars?

    For me social media is the biggest new "sin" industry, and should be treated like gambling, alcohol and cigarettes, tax that instead.
    Interesting idea.

    They will probably argue taxing it would be against the principles laid down in the 1850s-ish, of not taxing knowledge - which is when the taxes on print, paper, books, newspapers etc. were abolished.

    Of course, if they argue that, then they can't say no to becoming liable for the content, like any print publisher.
    It's already taxed (see my other comment) via the DST.

    For something more targeted, more thought is needed. We have problems with policing it already due to imprecise targetting, but the issue still needs - imo - to be addressed.

    Yesterday, I saw a video of one of the Reform chaps wazzocking on in Parliament about "locked up for hurty words" with reference to Lucy Connolly, ie repeating one of the routine lies. I think it was Rupert *.

    He did not say anything about the "round Britain charity rowers" invading Great Yarmouth in a small boat, this time.

    * Yes, I know, but he is no different from the rest of them.
    You'll be pleased with Fenland Dictionaries' word of the year.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global/2025/nov/18/feel-a-connection-to-a-celebrity-you-dont-know-theres-a-word-for-that

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,571
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Wha?

    Ah ...

    "Tesco told the Daily Mail: 'We are at Tesco and have a range of real and artificial Christmas trees in store as part of a wide selection of Christmas products to help our customers celebrate Christmas this year.'

    It said it is called an 'evergreen tree' to make it clear the type of Christmas tree inside the box."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15299775/Britons-rage-woke-Tescos-decision-rename-Christmas-trees-evergreen-trees.html

    "Susan Hall, leader of the Conservatives in the London Assembly, was vocal about her thoughts on social media, writing on X: 'Wretched ridiculous nonsense, call it what it is, it's a Christmas tree. There, I said it out loud. I'm fed up with all this woke stupidity.'"
    Call this out for what it is. She knows the truth, but expects that people listening to her are stupid. So she and all the rest of the grifters openly lie.

    What has been genuinely entertaining is that the first picture of the "Evergreen Tree" boxes was heavily cropped. To exclude the "Merry Christmas" pallet wrap they were stood in. And the range of other types of tree - glitter, snow covered, lit etc.

    To listen to her, all chocolate bars should be called "Chocolate". Because calling out the variations is a plot to impose Sharia law or something.

    Best post? The utter wazzock foaming on about a surbey claiming the majority of Brits will shun turkey for Christmas Dinner and eat another meat. "Brits have eaten Turkey for Christmas for 2,000 years" he claimed.
    Wait till he hears about the ones who won't eat meat at all.
    They will call for the eating of vegetarians. That will teach them to be fussy!
    That would be a bad idea. Vegetarians have no taste.
    Not even Aberdeen or wagyu ones?
    Not even ones trying to curry favour.
    Vegetarians - what's their beef?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,797

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    No no, it was a rant. And a bit clickbaity. Successfully so.

    Provoked the desired response from the kind of people who are reading the Telegraph/Mail and watching GBeebies/TalkTory and are OUTRAGED that Tesco have banned Christmas trees.

    I am depressed at the moment. But having good fun calling out performative wazzockry.

    Also check out Emergency Podcast where we tore into "British Culture" and I unveiled my war against wazzocks
    https://youtu.be/VkvpriRHc8s
    Wha?

    Ah ...

    "Tesco told the Daily Mail: 'We are at Tesco and have a range of real and artificial Christmas trees in store as part of a wide selection of Christmas products to help our customers celebrate Christmas this year.'

    It said it is called an 'evergreen tree' to make it clear the type of Christmas tree inside the box."

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15299775/Britons-rage-woke-Tescos-decision-rename-Christmas-trees-evergreen-trees.html

    "Susan Hall, leader of the Conservatives in the London Assembly, was vocal about her thoughts on social media, writing on X: 'Wretched ridiculous nonsense, call it what it is, it's a Christmas tree. There, I said it out loud. I'm fed up with all this woke stupidity.'"
    Call this out for what it is. She knows the truth, but expects that people listening to her are stupid. So she and all the rest of the grifters openly lie.

    What has been genuinely entertaining is that the first picture of the "Evergreen Tree" boxes was heavily cropped. To exclude the "Merry Christmas" pallet wrap they were stood in. And the range of other types of tree - glitter, snow covered, lit etc.

    To listen to her, all chocolate bars should be called "Chocolate". Because calling out the variations is a plot to impose Sharia law or something.

    Best post? The utter wazzock foaming on about a surbey claiming the majority of Brits will shun turkey for Christmas Dinner and eat another meat. "Brits have eaten Turkey for Christmas for 2,000 years" he claimed.
    Wait till he hears about the ones who won't eat meat at all.
    They will call for the eating of vegetarians. That will teach them to be fussy!
    That would be a bad idea. Vegetarians have no taste.
    Not even Aberdeen or wagyu ones?
    Not even ones trying to curry favour.
    Vegetarians - what's their beef?
    Venison?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,812

    18% of Yes voters and 14% of Remain voters would consider voting Reform!

    22% of No voters would consider voting SNP and 18% Green.

    I've read that Yougov weigh their Scottish polling heavily on 2014 no/yes vote recall without considering any demographic change considered (eg death). If so I'm not sure if this is a sound basis for current analysis.
    It’s a bit more complicated than that.

    The referendum had the highest turnout in any election in Scotland in the last eleven years, so the sample size is much larger for them to cmpare, however they take into account demographic changes, and give more prominence to the most recent election, which us bad for the SNP.

    But their findings aren’t out of line with other pollsters who have different weightings, Ipsos have the most Yes friendly house effect, and in June, they had the SNP polling at 34% compared to YouGov’s 32%.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,383
    geoffw said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    isam said:

    Taz said:

    Labour very unpopular. What more is there to say?

    Will getting rid of SKS improve things.

    Can anything improve things for them or, like the Tories after Truss, are they just done.
    One of the things that contributed to the feeling of chaos in the last parliament was the constant changing of PM. Labour offered calmer waters, changing PM themselves would be yet another way of failing to live up to their promises
    There is no point changing leader at the moment. There is still further bad news to come even if they are bold enough to make tougher decisions like yesterdays across the board including on tax.

    I think it would be reasonable to change leaders in search of an electoral boost in the second half of 2027 giving the new leader 12-18 months.
    This only makes sense if they actually do something useful with the period that SKS has left. I see very little sign of that happening.
    Yesterdays announcement was a reasonable attempt at something useful. As would a budget where they actually raise more money rather than just faff around at the margins. We can only wait and see.
    Having denied most of a month’s worth of leaks and kite-flying, does Rachel have anything left that isn’t just more faffing around at the margins?
    She could take a chainsaw to public spending, like Milei
    Chance would be a fine thing, but that’s not happening in a month of Sundays.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,398

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    From the MOT mileage figure?
    What about the first three years?
    From the annual service.
    My car doesn't have an annual service...

    If they try and do pence per mile on all journeys on all roads I think they will struggle. Either they fit a black box to all cars or they extend the MOT bureaucracy to extend into taxation.

    The tried and tested model is in France. Road pricing.

    I'm not in favour if this btw - far from it. But I think it will happen eventually. And knowing the way this country is run we will find the most absurd complex inefficient way to organise it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,806
    Human Rights Watch report concerning Trump's deportation of people to El Salvador's CECOT prison.

    https://www.hrw.org/report/2025/11/12/you-have-arrived-in-hell/torture-and-other-abuses-against-venezuelans-in-el

    Things to do. Have a good day all.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,577
    edited 9:46AM
    eek said:

    MattW said:

    IanB2 said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Our Tesla correspondent's report rant about the 3p per mile tax for EVs.

    Nice objective report on the Telegraph. Essentially "This is from the Telegraph, so half of it may be bollocks."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-Fv39zGyAc

    Do we know exactly how they would go about making the ppm charge?
    JGAT thinks it will metamorphose into a congestion charge. This was my entirely non-provocative comment, an approximate envelope analysis:

    I think the analysis is straightforward.

    The Govt receive something like £1500 (my guestimate) per vehicle per year, and a chunk of that revenue comes from Fuel Duty. An equivalent is needed for electric vehicles.

    Drivers have had it very easy for the last ~15 years, with Fuel Duty not even being increased with inflation, which has left too much room for vehicle prices to be hiked on the back of almost zero interest rates. Fuel Duty is now 52.95p per litre; with inflation it would be about 82p per litre. Total tax take per litre of fuel is perhaps 75-80p (53p + 25p of VAT on a total price of ~£1.45 per litre). If index linked it would be around £1.05.

    I'd see any rate per mile being index linked, which is sensible. I make the petrol one something like 10p per mile, depending on assumptions. Plus or minus a margin.

    So I'll call it that if a per mile tax comes in it will be around 8-9p per mile plus inflation from now to 2035, by then.

    It's nice to have a Government which is looking to the future, rather than sitting immovably on their bottoms looking at the past whilst letting society fall apart around their ears (see eg the state of our roads).


    (Open to corrections, and my estimation margin on the 8-9p number is +/- 15%.)
    Usual three options:

    1 replace fuel duty with another tax on vehicle use of that sort of scale

    2 replace fuel duty with £3000 per household or so of other taxes

    3 find £3000 per household or so of spending cuts.

    Part of our problem is that "taxing bad things to discourage them" has got over-tangled with "taxing things because the sort of society we want costs".
    I would be knocking down fuel duty and applying the per mile tax to all cars. So you would end up saving 10p so on petrol but paying 25p on mileage instead
    Per mile taxation is the worst way you can tax motoring imaginable. Will wreck the rural economy while making urban driving, with all its negative effects on congestion, noise pollution, activity levels , space etc etc, relatively cheaper.

    I'll be quite angry if they introduce this at the budget. A £1 per trip charge would raise as much as fuel duty at the moment and would do the opposite - and it would make the marginal cost of motoring in cities closer to that of public transport.
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