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Labour v. The Greens – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,786
edited 7:48AM in General
Labour v. The Greens – politicalbetting.com

Ladbrokes have a market up on who will the most seats out of Labour and the Greens at the next general election, my initial thought is that I’m not backing either side.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335
    Primo.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,998
    If you were someone who believed in institutional racism, this question to Eberechi Eze would raise an eyebrow. I thought the commentary at the time seemed odd. He scores a worldie, but all the commentators focus on a five yard pass from the white guy

    https://x.com/user84848384/status/1989101967613071489?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,243
    edited 7:57AM
    I think there is was an "if" missing from the second para of the lead?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,998
    I saw the headline and thought about what price it would be… and my thought was 1/8, 9/2!

    Showing my age with that big over round
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,737
    IanB2 said:

    I think there's an "if" missing from the second para of the lead?

    Yah.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,541
    edited 8:01AM
    isam said:

    If you were someone who believed in institutional racism, this question to Eberechi Eze would raise an eyebrow. I thought the commentary at the time seemed odd. He scores a worldie, but all the commentators focus on a five yard pass from the white guy

    https://x.com/user84848384/status/1989101967613071489?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I think the interviewer has got confused tbh - just before the goal there was an insane flicked pass by Foden which Eze put onto the bar. The subsequent assist for the goal from Foden was pretty simply.

    I think Eze has just been a good sportsman there crediting Foden but should have really pushed back.

    clip: https://youtu.be/dO-pY4pNWEg?si=yJUp-gmYDnTVF3n0&t=367
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,732
    isam said:

    If you were someone who believed in institutional racism, this question to Eberechi Eze would raise an eyebrow. I thought the commentary at the time seemed odd. He scores a worldie, but all the commentators focus on a five yard pass from the white guy

    https://x.com/user84848384/status/1989101967613071489?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It is the statistification, for want of a better word and there probably is one, of football. In the old days, goals were all that mattered. Now, assists (or in this instance, Phil's pass) are counted on an almost equal basis.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c2319djp94et
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,232

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,737
    isam said:

    If you were someone who believed in institutional racism, this question to Eberechi Eze would raise an eyebrow. I thought the commentary at the time seemed odd. He scores a worldie, but all the commentators focus on a five yard pass from the white guy

    https://x.com/user84848384/status/1989101967613071489?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It's all the fault of fantasy football and Opta where assists are nearly as important as who scored the goal.

    I still remember Raheem Sterling pointing out how the media cover young white players buying houses and young black players buying houses.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    Brilliant. I’ve seen him live a couple of times, fantastic show and genuinely a nice guy. Don’t take your mother-in-law though, he’s a little ‘blue’.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,737
    Taz said:

    Resident Doctors start a 5 days walk out.

    Streeting won’t budge. Good for him.

    Oh God, my father is going to be calling them names for the next five days.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335

    isam said:

    If you were someone who believed in institutional racism, this question to Eberechi Eze would raise an eyebrow. I thought the commentary at the time seemed odd. He scores a worldie, but all the commentators focus on a five yard pass from the white guy

    https://x.com/user84848384/status/1989101967613071489?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It is the statistification, for want of a better word and there probably is one, of football. In the old days, goals were all that mattered. Now, assists (or in this instance, Phil's pass) are counted on an almost equal basis.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c2319djp94et
    Aren’t people betting on the ‘assists’?
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,232
    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    If you were someone who believed in institutional racism, this question to Eberechi Eze would raise an eyebrow. I thought the commentary at the time seemed odd. He scores a worldie, but all the commentators focus on a five yard pass from the white guy

    https://x.com/user84848384/status/1989101967613071489?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It is the statistification, for want of a better word and there probably is one, of football. In the old days, goals were all that mattered. Now, assists (or in this instance, Phil's pass) are counted on an almost equal basis.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c2319djp94et
    Aren’t people betting on the ‘assists’?
    Yes.

    Do papers still do,those dream league things ? Assists count in that too.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,764
    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,612
    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    C4 is one of those curious institutions, capitalist but not capitalist. Not quite as elegant as in the early days, but still pretty neat.
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,072
    The ID card petition debate is scheduled for the 8th of December.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,737
    edited 8:12AM
    Sandpit said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    Brilliant. I’ve seen him live a couple of times, fantastic show and genuinely a nice guy. Don’t take your mother-in-law though, he’s a little ‘blue’.
    I've seen him live dozens and dozens of times.

    Pro tip, if you ever go see him live do not heckle or engage with him, he will rip the piss out of you, and if you're really lucky, you'll make it onto the edit of the TV show/DVD/Blu-ray.

    On a similar subject, from last week's Popbitch.

    Frank Skinner’s Manchester show went a tad awry this week when he did a routine about no longer being in the Top 10 list of most famous comedians.

    He comforted himself by asking: “Well, who’s the most famous GP?” Cue gasps of horror from the audience, and someone shouting back “Harold Shipman killed my mother and father”, before spending the rest of the gig sobbing in her seat.

    We’re not sure Frank handled the heckling very well. “Well, how was I supposed to know that?” he asked the crying woman. To which another audience member helpfully provided: “You’re in Manchester!”

    A cautionary tale in reading the room - and perhaps editing your sets geographically.
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,232

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    C4 is one of those curious institutions, capitalist but not capitalist. Not quite as elegant as in the early days, but still pretty neat.
    I don’t really watch it, don’t really like its output but I don’t have to pay a license fee for it so I have no beef with it.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335

    Not only did the Ukrainians hit the oil terminal in Novorossiysk (the explosion there was massive), and air defences there, but they also hit the Saratov oil refinery again and a fuel depot near the Engels airbase.

    Meanwhile the Russians hit nearly a dozen apartment blocks in Kyiv.

    Russia must lose and be seen to lose.

    Yes, the contrast between the targets of the two sides was quite stark yesterday.

    On the front lines the action is in the town of Pokrovsk, with the Russians sending tens of thousands of men there in the last few days, most of whom meet an unfortunate fate.

    FPT:
    Oil pipeline terminal in Novorossiysk, with a bit of a smoking problem.

    https://x.com/tendar/status/1989110149127238095
    https://x.com/jayinkyiv/status/1989196881931694280
    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1989121637367836967

    Also a military facility in the same city, probably air defences and ammunition.

    https://x.com/osinttechnical/status/1989146396256334302
    https://x.com/tendar/status/1989124320598073606

    The Russians, meanwhile, well they’re bombing apartment blocks in Kyiv.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1989122025143824804
  • TazTaz Posts: 22,232

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    It won’t help although most of its income is made overseas. The fall in the US markets won’t help too.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,732
    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,944

    Not only did the Ukrainians hit the oil terminal in Novorossiysk (the explosion there was massive), and air defences there, but they also hit the Saratov oil refinery again and a fuel depot near the Engels airbase.

    Meanwhile the Russians hit nearly a dozen apartment blocks in Kyiv.

    Russia must lose and be seen to lose.

    Though Pokrovsk may be finally about to fall.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/14/ukraine-war-briefing-flamingo-flies-into-battle-zelenskyy-defers-to-commanders-over-pokrovsk?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,732
    Sandpit said:

    isam said:

    If you were someone who believed in institutional racism, this question to Eberechi Eze would raise an eyebrow. I thought the commentary at the time seemed odd. He scores a worldie, but all the commentators focus on a five yard pass from the white guy

    https://x.com/user84848384/status/1989101967613071489?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It is the statistification, for want of a better word and there probably is one, of football. In the old days, goals were all that mattered. Now, assists (or in this instance, Phil's pass) are counted on an almost equal basis.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/live/c2319djp94et
    Aren’t people betting on the ‘assists’?
    Yes, there is betting available on assists or goals and assists or shots on target and heaven knows what else. They are also important in playing fantasy football.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,998
    Re Labour’s ‘Ming Vase’ strategy; it worked up to a point, they won a huge majority, but it didn’t get them any new votes. Amidst the relief that Starmer and the grown ups were back in charge, too many people glossed over the fact that they actually lost votes. LOST VOTES when the previous government had completely disgraced itself, morally with partygate, and economically with the Truss mini budget.

    Of course, a critic of Starmer couldn’t have been taken seriously if they criticised him for not winning a huge majority well enough, but the huge majority was a kind of illusion; they didn’t really win by much.

    Was there any need for the ming vase strategy? They had an open goal anyway, they could have done what they wanted. As it is, the victory margins were often so shallow that it’s left the govt too scared to do anything, despite being gifted an amount of power far in excess of what the underlying numbers say they deserved

    I’d compare it a football team winning the league with 60 points. Most seasons that would be failure, but if all the other sides fail worse, you’re left as Champions and in the UCL. The right thing to do is surely to acknowledge your luck, then double down by absolutely going for it in the transfer window with the money you’ve gained. Instead, Starmer has decided it wasn’t luck, that they were popular, and the triangulation should continue
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The “Cats Does Countdown” programme was one of the funniest things on British TV. It started as a Comic Relief one-off pisstake but they’ve gone on to do more than 100 of them. Yes it’s really expensive, a huge team of people behind it.

    Jimmy Carr does more than 250 live shows a year all over the world, and is one of few British comics to properly conquer the US standup market.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,324
    Foss said:

    The ID card petition debate is scheduled for the 8th of December.

    Are all the Labour MPs signed up to it as a matter of course, or is it something a number of them are wary of?

    Good morning, everyone.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335
    isam said:

    Re Labour’s ‘Ming Vase’ strategy; it worked up to a point, they won a huge majority, but it didn’t get them any new votes. Amidst the relief that Starmer and the grown ups were back in charge, too many people glossed over the fact that they actually lost votes. LOST VOTES when the previous government had completely disgraced itself, morally with partygate, and economically with the Truss mini budget.

    Of course, a critic of Starmer couldn’t have been taken seriously if they criticised him for not winning a huge majority well enough, but the huge majority was a kind of illusion; they didn’t really win by much.

    Was there any need for the ming vase strategy? They had an open goal anyway, they could have done what they wanted. As it is, the victory margins were often so shallow that it’s left the govt too scared to do anything, despite being gifted an amount of power far in excess of what the underlying numbers say they deserved

    I’d compare it a football team winning the league with 60 points. Most seasons that would be failure, but if all the other sides fail worse, you’re left as Champions and in the UCL. The right thing to do is surely to acknowledge your luck, then double down by absolutely going for it in the transfer window with the money you’ve gained. Instead, Starmer has decided it wasn’t luck, that they were popular, and the triangulation should continue

    They have a 100 seat majority and really need to JFDI. Taxes up, spending down.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,736
    On topic. Even at a measly 1-8 Labour are a slam-dunk.

    Polanski's populist radicalism may well attract young Corbynites but will repel in equal measure middle-aged small-c conservatives whose only interest in Greenery is the preservation of their green belt.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,262
    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The “Cats Does Countdown” programme was one of the funniest things on British TV. It started as a Comic Relief one-off pisstake but they’ve gone on to do more than 100 of them. Yes it’s really expensive, a huge team of people behind it.

    Jimmy Carr does more than 250 live shows a year all over the world, and is one of few British comics to properly conquer the US standup market.
    I find him as funny as a fart in a spacesuit, only equalled by that unfunny twat Corden
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,986

    Not only did the Ukrainians hit the oil terminal in Novorossiysk (the explosion there was massive), and air defences there, but they also hit the Saratov oil refinery again and a fuel depot near the Engels airbase.

    Meanwhile the Russians hit nearly a dozen apartment blocks in Kyiv.

    Russia must lose and be seen to lose.

    I think the export capacity of the oil terminal is nearly 1 million barrels of oil per day. Almost 20% of Russia's maritime export capacity, or nearly 10% of their total production levels.

    That's a big deal.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,324
    isam said:

    Re Labour’s ‘Ming Vase’ strategy; it worked up to a point, they won a huge majority, but it didn’t get them any new votes. Amidst the relief that Starmer and the grown ups were back in charge, too many people glossed over the fact that they actually lost votes. LOST VOTES when the previous government had completely disgraced itself, morally with partygate, and economically with the Truss mini budget.

    Of course, a critic of Starmer couldn’t have been taken seriously if they criticised him for not winning a huge majority well enough, but the huge majority was a kind of illusion; they didn’t really win by much.

    Was there any need for the ming vase strategy? They had an open goal anyway, they could have done what they wanted. As it is, the victory margins were often so shallow that it’s left the govt too scared to do anything, despite being gifted an amount of power far in excess of what the underlying numbers say they deserved

    I’d compare it a football team winning the league with 60 points. Most seasons that would be failure, but if all the other sides fail worse, you’re left as Champions and in the UCL. The right thing to do is surely to acknowledge your luck, then double down by absolutely going for it in the transfer window with the money you’ve gained. Instead, Starmer has decided it wasn’t luck, that they were popular, and the triangulation should continue

    The ming vase strategy might not have been necessary in that situation, but the loss of that 1992 GE when they thought it was in the bag must have left deep scars in the party.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,944
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The “Cats Does Countdown” programme was one of the funniest things on British TV. It started as a Comic Relief one-off pisstake but they’ve gone on to do more than 100 of them. Yes it’s really expensive, a huge team of people behind it.

    Jimmy Carr does more than 250 live shows a year all over the world, and is one of few British comics to properly conquer the US standup market.
    I find him as funny as a fart in a spacesuit, only equalled by that unfunny twat Corden
    We are in rare agreement!
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,895

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The botox is for the US gigs presumably? In the UK he's allowed facial expressions.

    Only thing to disagree with there is on Ticketmaster, I know someone who worked for them, despite all their protestations of innocence back then a % of tickets were retained for sale on the "secondary market".
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,379
    isam said:

    Re Labour’s ‘Ming Vase’ strategy; it worked up to a point, they won a huge majority, but it didn’t get them any new votes. Amidst the relief that Starmer and the grown ups were back in charge, too many people glossed over the fact that they actually lost votes. LOST VOTES when the previous government had completely disgraced itself, morally with partygate, and economically with the Truss mini budget.

    Of course, a critic of Starmer couldn’t have been taken seriously if they criticised him for not winning a huge majority well enough, but the huge majority was a kind of illusion; they didn’t really win by much.

    Was there any need for the ming vase strategy? They had an open goal anyway, they could have done what they wanted. As it is, the victory margins were often so shallow that it’s left the govt too scared to do anything, despite being gifted an amount of power far in excess of what the underlying numbers say they deserved

    I’d compare it a football team winning the league with 60 points. Most seasons that would be failure, but if all the other sides fail worse, you’re left as Champions and in the UCL. The right thing to do is surely to acknowledge your luck, then double down by absolutely going for it in the transfer window with the money you’ve gained. Instead, Starmer has decided it wasn’t luck, that they were popular, and the triangulation should continue

    All true, but two quibbles:
    1) Theresa May had an open goal in 2017 and thought she'd - laudably, in my view - use it to come up with a solution to funding adult social care, and look where that got her. Meanwhile, it was a strategy nit so very removed from Ming Vase which led to the 1997 landslide. While I agree with your point I can understand Labour's reticence.
    2) One of my many, many gripes with football is the way you can just buy someone else's players. That's not sport, surely? "We won the league!" "What do you put that down to?" "We bought all the other clubs' best players." It's not really 'we', then, is it? People in football seem so firmly embedded in this culture that they don't appear to see the absurdity of this.
    When Nottingham Forest won the league, they may have aquired a handful, but half the team were those who'd been playing in Division 2 the previous year.
    I appreciate this is incidental to your point.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,732
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    C4 is one of those curious institutions, capitalist but not capitalist. Not quite as elegant as in the early days, but still pretty neat.
    I don’t really watch it, don’t really like its output but I don’t have to pay a license fee for it so I have no beef with it.
    You do need (if that is the right word) a television licence to watch Channel 4 as it is broadcast.

    If you use channel4.com as a catch-up service to stream later, then no licence is needed. Basically, for any channel, if you watch it as it is broadcast, you need a licence, but if you only stream it on a non-live catch-up basis, you do not. The exception is you need a licence for BBC iplayer at all times, whether live or catch-up. The anomaly for iplayer was introduced by the Conservative government in its time off from running referenda.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,939

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    Lloyds down 3.7% !?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335

    Sandpit said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    Brilliant. I’ve seen him live a couple of times, fantastic show and genuinely a nice guy. Don’t take your mother-in-law though, he’s a little ‘blue’.
    I've seen him live dozens and dozens of times.

    Pro tip, if you ever go see him live do not heckle or engage with him, he will rip the piss out of you, and if you're really lucky, you'll make it onto the edit of the TV show/DVD/Blu-ray.
    Don’t heckle the guy with the microphone who does this for a living. You’re not going to win, no matter how much you think your drunk arse can out-heckle the professional.

    This lady, Vicky, is going to be in her forties now, possibly with a husband and kids watching her video from two decades ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCGg1AlcIZI
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,991

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    It probably didn't help, but the falls are driven by the chaos in the US. Since they sacked the person responsible for producing the jobs report, they said yesterday they will never know how many jobs were lost in October. Inflation is still rising despite the Mad King commanding it to fall so there is no certainty on interest rates
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,269
    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    I don't.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,944

    On topic. Even at a measly 1-8 Labour are a slam-dunk.

    Polanski's populist radicalism may well attract young Corbynites but will repel in equal measure middle-aged small-c conservatives whose only interest in Greenery is the preservation of their green belt.

    Didnt Polanski's Greens do well in Somerset last night? 54% of the vote.

    https://bsky.app/profile/greenelects.world/post/3m5koek7zmc2x

    One under remarked feature of shire politics is that there's quite a strong rural radical vote still. In true blue Huntingdon Corbyn got 31% in 2017 GE and 22% in 2019. In a multiparty contest 31% could take such a seat, depending on how the vote splits elsewhere.

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335
    Dopermean said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The botox is for the US gigs presumably? In the UK he's allowed facial expressions.

    Only thing to disagree with there is on Ticketmaster, I know someone who worked for them, despite all their protestations of innocence back then a % of tickets were retained for sale on the "secondary market".
    Yes Ticketmaster are total and utter scumbags. The whole live events industry in the US basically decided to create a “bad company” to deflect attention from all the scumbaggery that goes on with live event tickets.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,269
    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,944
    Scott_xP said:

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    It probably didn't help, but the falls are driven by the chaos in the US. Since they sacked the person responsible for producing the jobs report, they said yesterday they will never know how many jobs were lost in October. Inflation is still rising despite the Mad King commanding it to fall so there is no certainty on interest rates
    And everyone is wondering if the AI bubble is about to pop.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,466
    edited 8:44AM
    I agree that Labour are still far more likely than the Greens to win most seats at the next GE and if they are overtaken it is likely to be by the LDs rather than the Greens. Yougov has Ed Davey on a net +27% with 2024 Labour voters for example but Zack Polanski only on a net +12% with 2024 Labour voters.

    Jeremy Corbyn by contrast is on -7% with 2024 Labour voters but +24% with Green voters, so I think the Greens are more likely to prevent Your Party from taking off than really threatening to overtake Labour
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Internal_Favourability_251014.pdf
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The “Cats Does Countdown” programme was one of the funniest things on British TV. It started as a Comic Relief one-off pisstake but they’ve gone on to do more than 100 of them. Yes it’s really expensive, a huge team of people behind it.

    Jimmy Carr does more than 250 live shows a year all over the world, and is one of few British comics to properly conquer the US standup market.
    I find him as funny as a fart in a spacesuit, only equalled by that unfunny twat Corden
    I can’t stand James Corden and Ricky Gervais, but find most of the rest of them funny.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,991
    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    She has a 14 year old daughter
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,939
    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The “Cats Does Countdown” programme was one of the funniest things on British TV. It started as a Comic Relief one-off pisstake but they’ve gone on to do more than 100 of them. Yes it’s really expensive, a huge team of people behind it.

    Jimmy Carr does more than 250 live shows a year all over the world, and is one of few British comics to properly conquer the US standup market.
    I find him as funny as a fart in a spacesuit, only equalled by that unfunny twat Corden
    I can’t stand James Corden and Ricky Gervais, but find most of the rest of them funny.
    Corden's fine; Gervais is bloody awful.

    Eye of the beholder, I guess.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,930
    Foxy said:

    Not only did the Ukrainians hit the oil terminal in Novorossiysk (the explosion there was massive), and air defences there, but they also hit the Saratov oil refinery again and a fuel depot near the Engels airbase.

    Meanwhile the Russians hit nearly a dozen apartment blocks in Kyiv.

    Russia must lose and be seen to lose.

    Though Pokrovsk may be finally about to fall.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/nov/14/ukraine-war-briefing-flamingo-flies-into-battle-zelenskyy-defers-to-commanders-over-pokrovsk?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    It’s possible, but its fall has been imminently predicted for more than a year.

    All it means is that Russia would gain another pile of rubble, at a cost of thousands of lives, before having to repeat the exercise.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,991
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    It probably didn't help, but the falls are driven by the chaos in the US. Since they sacked the person responsible for producing the jobs report, they said yesterday they will never know how many jobs were lost in October. Inflation is still rising despite the Mad King commanding it to fall so there is no certainty on interest rates
    And everyone is wondering if the AI bubble is about to pop.
    I suspect somebody using Claude to launch an AI enhanced cyberattack is not going to convince more people it's a utopian future
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335

    Not only did the Ukrainians hit the oil terminal in Novorossiysk (the explosion there was massive), and air defences there, but they also hit the Saratov oil refinery again and a fuel depot near the Engels airbase.

    Meanwhile the Russians hit nearly a dozen apartment blocks in Kyiv.

    Russia must lose and be seen to lose.

    I think the export capacity of the oil terminal is nearly 1 million barrels of oil per day. Almost 20% of Russia's maritime export capacity, or nearly 10% of their total production levels.

    That's a big deal.
    Yep. They’re struggling for sales anyway at the moment, but these attacks make sure they’ll not be selling any for a while more.

    The Saudis and OPEC have decided to pump like crazy to take out Russia, which is great news for pretty much everyone expect Putin and the US shale producers.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,243

    Sandpit said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The “Cats Does Countdown” programme was one of the funniest things on British TV. It started as a Comic Relief one-off pisstake but they’ve gone on to do more than 100 of them. Yes it’s really expensive, a huge team of people behind it.

    Jimmy Carr does more than 250 live shows a year all over the world, and is one of few British comics to properly conquer the US standup market.
    I find him as funny as a fart in a spacesuit, only equalled by that unfunny twat Corden
    I can’t stand James Corden and Ricky Gervais, but find most of the rest of them funny.
    Corden's fine; Gervais is bloody awful.

    Eye of the beholder, I guess.
    Other way round
  • FossFoss Posts: 2,072

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    C4 is one of those curious institutions, capitalist but not capitalist. Not quite as elegant as in the early days, but still pretty neat.
    I don’t really watch it, don’t really like its output but I don’t have to pay a license fee for it so I have no beef with it.
    You do need (if that is the right word) a television licence to watch Channel 4 as it is broadcast.

    If you use channel4.com as a catch-up service to stream later, then no licence is needed. Basically, for any channel, if you watch it as it is broadcast, you need a licence, but if you only stream it on a non-live catch-up basis, you do not. The exception is you need a licence for BBC iplayer at all times, whether live or catch-up. The anomaly for iplayer was introduced by the Conservative government in its time off from running referenda.
    It was the BBC who wanted that: https://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/feb/26/tony-hall-extend-licence-fee-bbc-iplayer
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,930
    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    Being into 14/15 year old girls seems normative in the US South.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,986
    Also some speculation that one of the large explosions in Novorossiysk was a warehouse storing Kalibr cruise missiles being hit.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,395
    I put a bet with Ladbrokes on Mamdani getting between 50 and 55% of the vote. They havren't cancelled my bet or paid out. Does anyone know if this is normal three weeks after the event? Or perhaps the figures aren't known yet?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,991
    Roger said:

    I put a bet with Ladbrokes on Mamdani getting between 50 and 55% of the vote. They havren't cancelled my bet or paid out. Does anyone know if this is normal three weeks after the event? Or perhaps the figures aren't known yet?

    Betfair voided the same market for some reason
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,466
    Foxy said:

    On topic. Even at a measly 1-8 Labour are a slam-dunk.

    Polanski's populist radicalism may well attract young Corbynites but will repel in equal measure middle-aged small-c conservatives whose only interest in Greenery is the preservation of their green belt.

    Didnt Polanski's Greens do well in Somerset last night? 54% of the vote.

    https://bsky.app/profile/greenelects.world/post/3m5koek7zmc2x

    One under remarked feature of shire politics is that there's quite a strong rural radical vote still. In true blue Huntingdon Corbyn got 31% in 2017 GE and 22% in 2019. In a multiparty contest 31% could take such a seat, depending on how the vote splits elsewhere.

    In 2017 Corbyn got 40% nationally and 32% in 2019, so unless the Greens hit 30%+ nationally and probably at least 40% they have zero chance in rural seats like Huntingdon and of course the Tories still won it even in 2017
  • isamisam Posts: 42,998
    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Re Labour’s ‘Ming Vase’ strategy; it worked up to a point, they won a huge majority, but it didn’t get them any new votes. Amidst the relief that Starmer and the grown ups were back in charge, too many people glossed over the fact that they actually lost votes. LOST VOTES when the previous government had completely disgraced itself, morally with partygate, and economically with the Truss mini budget.

    Of course, a critic of Starmer couldn’t have been taken seriously if they criticised him for not winning a huge majority well enough, but the huge majority was a kind of illusion; they didn’t really win by much.

    Was there any need for the ming vase strategy? They had an open goal anyway, they could have done what they wanted. As it is, the victory margins were often so shallow that it’s left the govt too scared to do anything, despite being gifted an amount of power far in excess of what the underlying numbers say they deserved

    I’d compare it a football team winning the league with 60 points. Most seasons that would be failure, but if all the other sides fail worse, you’re left as Champions and in the UCL. The right thing to do is surely to acknowledge your luck, then double down by absolutely going for it in the transfer window with the money you’ve gained. Instead, Starmer has decided it wasn’t luck, that they were popular, and the triangulation should continue

    All true, but two quibbles:
    1) Theresa May had an open goal in 2017 and thought she'd - laudably, in my view - use it to come up with a solution to funding adult social care, and look where that got her. Meanwhile, it was a strategy nit so very removed from Ming Vase which led to the 1997 landslide. While I agree with your point I can understand Labour's reticence.
    2) One of my many, many gripes with football is the way you can just buy someone else's players. That's not sport, surely? "We won the league!" "What do you put that down to?" "We bought all the other clubs' best players." It's not really 'we', then, is it? People in football seem so firmly embedded in this culture that they don't appear to see the absurdity of this.
    When Nottingham Forest won the league, they may have aquired a handful, but half the team were those who'd been playing in Division 2 the previous year.
    I appreciate this is incidental to your point.
    Yeah, I agree on your second point. It bothers me when Arsenal sign a load of players as I want to win with those I’ve come to regard as ‘ours’. But I soon get over it to be fair

    I can also see why Labour did what they did. If they’d been bolder and lost, people would have slaughtered them, but reality has shown that the grass isn’t always greener. Had they been bold and lost they’d have ruminated about how a large majority won by a ming vase approach would have given licence to radically change the country, but it’s not been the case
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,462
    edited 8:51AM
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    She has a 14 year old daughter
    ...
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 597
    Isn’t the ‘Labour lost votes in 2024 compared to 2019’ quite reductive? Reform (as BXP) weren’t standing in all seats in 2019. They got >4 million votes in 2024 and about 600k in 2019.

    The broader point about the negatives of the ‘Ming Vase’ strategy is certainly valid, however
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,737
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    Brilliant. I’ve seen him live a couple of times, fantastic show and genuinely a nice guy. Don’t take your mother-in-law though, he’s a little ‘blue’.
    I've seen him live dozens and dozens of times.

    Pro tip, if you ever go see him live do not heckle or engage with him, he will rip the piss out of you, and if you're really lucky, you'll make it onto the edit of the TV show/DVD/Blu-ray.
    Don’t heckle the guy with the microphone who does this for a living. You’re not going to win, no matter how much you think your drunk arse can out-heckle the professional.

    This lady, Vicky, is going to be in her forties now, possibly with a husband and kids watching her video from two decades ago.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCGg1AlcIZI
    It wasn’t a heckle, Jimmy Carr was talking about who was on their hall pass, lots of people said their celebrity hall pass.

    Then one guy said ‘Jimmy Carr’.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,991
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    She has a 14 year old daughter
    ...
    You are reading what she said correctly

    What she said is wrong

    15 year old girls are not legal, barely or otherwise, in any US state
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,269
    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    It probably didn't help, but the falls are driven by the chaos in the US. Since they sacked the person responsible for producing the jobs report, they said yesterday they will never know how many jobs were lost in October. Inflation is still rising despite the Mad King commanding it to fall so there is no certainty on interest rates
    And everyone is wondering if the AI bubble is about to pop.
    I suspect somebody using Claude to launch an AI enhanced cyberattack is not going to convince more people it's a utopian future
    They will need AI for cyber defence too ...

    As far as the bubble is concerned, no one has much of an idea which, or how many of the players will actually make serous returns on their investment.

    Not a few won't at all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,269
    Roger said:

    I put a bet with Ladbrokes on Mamdani getting between 50 and 55% of the vote. They havren't cancelled my bet or paid out. Does anyone know if this is normal three weeks after the event? Or perhaps the figures aren't known yet?

    Turnout bets usually seem to take longer to pay out, even when the results are pretty obvious.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,462
    Scott_xP said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    She has a 14 year old daughter
    ...
    You are reading what she said correctly

    What she said is wrong

    15 year old girls are not legal, barely or otherwise, in any US state
    THanks - seemed so confused I deleted it as muddled anyway ...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335

    Also some speculation that one of the large explosions in Novorossiysk was a warehouse storing Kalibr cruise missiles being hit.

    There was definitely a massive ammo dump that went up in flames. The more Russian fires the better, especially if it was the expensive and irreplaceable stuff.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,623
    Roger said:

    I put a bet with Ladbrokes on Mamdani getting between 50 and 55% of the vote. They havren't cancelled my bet or paid out. Does anyone know if this is normal three weeks after the event? Or perhaps the figures aren't known yet?

    The results are still unofficial and haven’t been certified yet so maybe this is the reason .
  • isamisam Posts: 42,998

    Isn’t the ‘Labour lost votes in 2024 compared to 2019’ quite reductive? Reform (as BXP) weren’t standing in all seats in 2019. They got >4 million votes in 2024 and about 600k in 2019.

    The broader point about the negatives of the ‘Ming Vase’ strategy is certainly valid, however

    Perhaps, but was there really a big Corbyn>Farage move? I think it’s more likely to be people weren’t inspired to vote; turnout was way on down
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,958
    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The “Cats Does Countdown” programme was one of the funniest things on British TV. It started as a Comic Relief one-off pisstake but they’ve gone on to do more than 100 of them. Yes it’s really expensive, a huge team of people behind it.

    Jimmy Carr does more than 250 live shows a year all over the world, and is one of few British comics to properly conquer the US standup market.
    I find him as funny as a fart in a spacesuit
    So pretty funny then? As long as you're not an astronaut I suppose...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,732
    Sacked Lord Mandelson caught relieving himself against a garden wall after a late-night visit to George Osborne's Notting Hill home
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15289831/Lord-Mandelson-caught-relieving-garden-wall-visit-George-Osborne-Notting-Hill.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 83,269
    Unappreciated, and certainly underreported point regarding the release of the Epstein emails.

    Based on the new evidence and reporting
    @DAGToddBlanche got Maxwell to record a video pretending to clear Donald Trump when the Dept of Justice had emails that PROVED she LIED UNDER OATH to him

    https://x.com/donwinslow/status/1988835935014760887
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,991
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    It probably didn't help, but the falls are driven by the chaos in the US. Since they sacked the person responsible for producing the jobs report, they said yesterday they will never know how many jobs were lost in October. Inflation is still rising despite the Mad King commanding it to fall so there is no certainty on interest rates
    And everyone is wondering if the AI bubble is about to pop.
    I suspect somebody using Claude to launch an AI enhanced cyberattack is not going to convince more people it's a utopian future
    They will need AI for cyber defence too ...

    As far as the bubble is concerned, no one has much of an idea which, or how many of the players will actually make serous returns on their investment.

    Not a few won't at all.
    Most of them will not

    The terrifying part of this is not just a repeat of the dotcom failure (inflated prices based on unrealistic future revenue) but that most of the real investment in new data centres is being financed using the sub-prime mortgage model.

    Two epic failure modes for the price of one...
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,948
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    Being into 14/15 year old girls seems normative in the US South.
    ...especially if they are your cousin.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,496
    FPT

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile in the land of MAGA trying to justify peadophiles

    @accountablegop.bsky.social‬

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."

    https://bsky.app/profile/accountablegop.bsky.social/post/3m5jnc3lgx622

    N.B. Megyn has a 14 year old daughter

    Not really. The word peadophile is often wrongly used. They're not the same thing. Even the thing that has brought Prince Andrew down was about a 17yr old, totally legal. Of course if you want to raise the age of consent, then advocate for doing so.
    Its only legal for regular sex between consenting individuals.

    If money is involved, then 18 is the age.

    Illegal.
    Even if he didn’t know money was involved? I can quite believe Andrew M-W believing he was irresistible to her
    If Epstein was involved money will be there somewhere - even if it was just an investment in his "funds"
    I believe Guiffre was paid $15k a time.

    But my question was if Andrew M-W didn’t *know* that or suspect it, can he be held guilty?
    Wouldn't that be a matter for a jury to decide?
    In the specific case yes, but BartholomewRoberts was definitive in his assertion
    IANAL but AFAIK ignorance is normally no excuse under the law.

    Besides, its a convoluted area but I believe the law is pretty clear that under-18s can't give consent if money is involved. If someone else paid the money, I do not believe that changes the age of consent back down to 16, since consent can't be given.

    Again though, IANAL.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,847
    Foxy said:

    malcolmg said:

    Sandpit said:

    Taz said:

    In two and a half minutes, Jimmy Carr tells an American audience why capitalism is better than communism, and the difference between socialist and woke. ETA nsfw language.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/zMmjKRettxA

    I wonder if he will lose his Channel 4 gigs now.
    Jimmy Carr is on Amazon Prime and Comedy Central these days. His Channel 4 gigs are Big Fat Quiz of the Year which is one night, 8 out of 10 cats, which hasn't had a new episode since the pandemic, and 8 out of 10 Cats does Countdown, which has only a few episodes a year and is notorious for keeping them on the shelf for months or years (it is quite expensive to make aiui). He tours America and the world more even than Keir Starmer.
    The “Cats Does Countdown” programme was one of the funniest things on British TV. It started as a Comic Relief one-off pisstake but they’ve gone on to do more than 100 of them. Yes it’s really expensive, a huge team of people behind it.

    Jimmy Carr does more than 250 live shows a year all over the world, and is one of few British comics to properly conquer the US standup market.
    I find him as funny as a fart in a spacesuit, only equalled by that unfunny twat Corden
    We are in rare agreement!
    C'mon, Carr's joke about the Roma genocide was hilarious.
    Sorry, I meant 'hilarious'.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,732
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    It probably didn't help, but the falls are driven by the chaos in the US. Since they sacked the person responsible for producing the jobs report, they said yesterday they will never know how many jobs were lost in October. Inflation is still rising despite the Mad King commanding it to fall so there is no certainty on interest rates
    And everyone is wondering if the AI bubble is about to pop.
    I suspect somebody using Claude to launch an AI enhanced cyberattack is not going to convince more people it's a utopian future
    They will need AI for cyber defence too ...

    As far as the bubble is concerned, no one has much of an idea which, or how many of the players will actually make serous returns on their investment.

    Not a few won't at all.
    Yes, it is like the dot com bubble at the millennium. Some companies from back then are now massive, an online bookshop called Amazon, for instance. Most (including the one I worked for) went to the wall leaving their once sky-high valuations and share prices as a faint echo.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,496
    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    Dafuq?

    15 year olds aren't barely legal. They're patently illegal.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335
    edited 8:59AM
    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    She’s trying really hard to tread the line between the Ben Shapiro / Charlie Kirk conservatives, and the Tucker Carlson / Candace Owens conservatives, with the latter group getting increasingly crazy and conspiracy theorist.

    She is however correct that there’s a difference between paedophiles and pederasts, even though both are illegal and obviously wrong.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,462

    Sacked Lord Mandelson caught relieving himself against a garden wall after a late-night visit to George Osborne's Notting Hill home
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15289831/Lord-Mandelson-caught-relieving-garden-wall-visit-George-Osborne-Notting-Hill.html

    Typical pish DM story about Labour.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,944
    isam said:

    Re Labour’s ‘Ming Vase’ strategy; it worked up to a point, they won a huge majority, but it didn’t get them any new votes. Amidst the relief that Starmer and the grown ups were back in charge, too many people glossed over the fact that they actually lost votes. LOST VOTES when the previous government had completely disgraced itself, morally with partygate, and economically with the Truss mini budget.

    Of course, a critic of Starmer couldn’t have been taken seriously if they criticised him for not winning a huge majority well enough, but the huge majority was a kind of illusion; they didn’t really win by much.

    Was there any need for the ming vase strategy? They had an open goal anyway, they could have done what they wanted. As it is, the victory margins were often so shallow that it’s left the govt too scared to do anything, despite being gifted an amount of power far in excess of what the underlying numbers say they deserved

    I’d compare it a football team winning the league with 60 points. Most seasons that would be failure, but if all the other sides fail worse, you’re left as Champions and in the UCL. The right thing to do is surely to acknowledge your luck, then double down by absolutely going for it in the transfer window with the money you’ve gained. Instead, Starmer has decided it wasn’t luck, that they were popular, and the triangulation should continue

    I largely agree. Labours landslide in seats on a 34% share was driven by a number of factors, not just the Ming Vase* strategy. It was very notable that existing Labour seats had very low turnouts, and it wasn't much higher in Lab gains. In part this was the foregone conclusion of the election, so why bother? It was noticeable that there were seats with quite high turnouts, such as LD gains.

    Overwhelmingly the desire was to kick out the Tories, and not much more than that. That seems to have boomeranged back on Labour and they are going to get a pasting next time. Theres no love of the Tories still, so it will be other parties that benefit from the backlash, mostly but not exclusively Reform.

    *that Ming Vase is now a White Elephant, a gift that bankrupts the holder.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 45,262
    edited 9:01AM

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    Lloyds down 3.7% !?
    Must be UK only , my pf has hardly moved
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,243

    I see a large fall in the FTSE 100 this morning

    Would the Budget chaos have anything to do with this?

    12 days to go! 👿

    Both the US and UK are looking toppy; I've been selling all week
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,930
    Cicero said:

    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    Being into 14/15 year old girls seems normative in the US South.
    ...especially if they are your cousin.
    Or sister. Or daughter.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,558
    Morning all :)

    Disappointing news if it is confirmed Starmer and Reeves have backed away from income tax rises in the Budget.

    The obvious conclusions from this are a) the onus will be more on spending cuts to try to reverse the deficit which will please many on here and b) it's very likely we'll be back here having the same discussion in twelve months when borrowing remaind stubbornly high.

    Clearly, the argument tax rises would choke off any signs of returning business and consumer confidence has won the day and I get that but the idea now must be to try to slow the borrowing train and unless Reeves does something radical on property taxation (the signs aren't encouraging), it will be as much an admission economically the country is unmanageable since the economic decisions can't be taken for political reasons (though if your party is polling around or below 20%, there's another question).

    @isam, who, it's fair to say, is no friend of Starmer, Reeves or the Labour Government, makes the compelling point big victories should allow incoming Governments to be radical but that's not the case, more often than not. The Attlee example isn't valid because of the unique circumstances of 1945 - Thatcher's Government saved its real radicalism for the second term and Blair did little or nothing with his 1997 landslide and any thoughts of radicalism in the second term were disrupted by events elsewhere.

    You could perhaps argue Boris Johnson might have been a radical Prime Minister had it not been for the pandemic but talking radical and doing radical are very different things.

    Counter intuitively, it's often Governments with small majorities, who know time isn't on their side, who are often the most radical and the most united.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,395

    On topic. Even at a measly 1-8 Labour are a slam-dunk.

    Polanski's populist radicalism may well attract young Corbynites but will repel in equal measure middle-aged small-c conservatives whose only interest in Greenery is the preservation of their green belt.

    Though I think your conclusion is right what makes now different from other times is that we have the three leading Parties quite unfit to govern. I just listened to Lisa Nandy and had to switch off. Starmer is worse. The Tories under Badenoch are indistinguishable from Farages mob and if Farages mob got in with their help I'd leave the country.

    Of course things might change in the next three years but a choice that involves Starmer Baddenoch or Farage in any configuration must give Zak a chance
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,847
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Good god, GOP shills are now resorting to "at least she wasn't eight".

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."
    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989014083274952746

    She’s trying really hard to tread the line between the Ben Shapiro / Charlie Kirk conservatives, and the Tucker Carlson / Candace Owens conservatives, with the latter group getting increasingly crazy and conspiracy theorist.

    She is however correct that there’s a difference between paedophiles and pederasts, even though both are illegal and obviously wrong.
    Ok, righties debating which levels of paedophilia are okayish is pretty funny. Perhaps an 'edgy' stage act can do a riff on it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,991
    @AccountableGOP

    Megyn Kelly in 2018: " There's no consenting for a 14 or even a 17 year old."

    Megyn Kelly today: "Jeffrey Epstein…was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."

    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989166977676636601?s=20
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,623
    The Guardian is reporting that the OBR delivered a better than expected fiscal forecast which put the fiscal hole at 20 billion pounds .
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,930
    edited 9:09AM
    isam said:

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Re Labour’s ‘Ming Vase’ strategy; it worked up to a point, they won a huge majority, but it didn’t get them any new votes. Amidst the relief that Starmer and the grown ups were back in charge, too many people glossed over the fact that they actually lost votes. LOST VOTES when the previous government had completely disgraced itself, morally with partygate, and economically with the Truss mini budget.

    Of course, a critic of Starmer couldn’t have been taken seriously if they criticised him for not winning a huge majority well enough, but the huge majority was a kind of illusion; they didn’t really win by much.

    Was there any need for the ming vase strategy? They had an open goal anyway, they could have done what they wanted. As it is, the victory margins were often so shallow that it’s left the govt too scared to do anything, despite being gifted an amount of power far in excess of what the underlying numbers say they deserved

    I’d compare it a football team winning the league with 60 points. Most seasons that would be failure, but if all the other sides fail worse, you’re left as Champions and in the UCL. The right thing to do is surely to acknowledge your luck, then double down by absolutely going for it in the transfer window with the money you’ve gained. Instead, Starmer has decided it wasn’t luck, that they were popular, and the triangulation should continue

    All true, but two quibbles:
    1) Theresa May had an open goal in 2017 and thought she'd - laudably, in my view - use it to come up with a solution to funding adult social care, and look where that got her. Meanwhile, it was a strategy nit so very removed from Ming Vase which led to the 1997 landslide. While I agree with your point I can understand Labour's reticence.
    2) One of my many, many gripes with football is the way you can just buy someone else's players. That's not sport, surely? "We won the league!" "What do you put that down to?" "We bought all the other clubs' best players." It's not really 'we', then, is it? People in football seem so firmly embedded in this culture that they don't appear to see the absurdity of this.
    When Nottingham Forest won the league, they may have aquired a handful, but half the team were those who'd been playing in Division 2 the previous year.
    I appreciate this is incidental to your point.
    Yeah, I agree on your second point. It bothers me when Arsenal sign a load of players as I want to win with those I’ve come to regard as ‘ours’. But I soon get over it to be fair

    I can also see why Labour did what they did. If they’d been bolder and lost, people would have slaughtered them, but reality has shown that the grass isn’t always greener. Had they been bold and lost they’d have ruminated about how a large majority won by a ming vase approach would have given licence to radically change the country, but it’s not been the case
    Labour, promising tax increases, would still have won 340-350 seats, I’m sure.

    Given it’s fiscally impossible to reduce the tax, burden, right now, a competent government could at least simplify taxation.

    Why not go for an annual property tax, in return for abolishing Council Tax and IHT?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 26,496
    I hope the news that Reeves is leaking she won't increase income tax does not mean she will be increasing national insurance instead.

    NI is much worse than income tax, it is a tax only on those working for a living.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,466
    isam said:

    Re Labour’s ‘Ming Vase’ strategy; it worked up to a point, they won a huge majority, but it didn’t get them any new votes. Amidst the relief that Starmer and the grown ups were back in charge, too many people glossed over the fact that they actually lost votes. LOST VOTES when the previous government had completely disgraced itself, morally with partygate, and economically with the Truss mini budget.

    Of course, a critic of Starmer couldn’t have been taken seriously if they criticised him for not winning a huge majority well enough, but the huge majority was a kind of illusion; they didn’t really win by much.

    Was there any need for the ming vase strategy? They had an open goal anyway, they could have done what they wanted. As it is, the victory margins were often so shallow that it’s left the govt too scared to do anything, despite being gifted an amount of power far in excess of what the underlying numbers say they deserved

    I’d compare it a football team winning the league with 60 points. Most seasons that would be failure, but if all the other sides fail worse, you’re left as Champions and in the UCL. The right thing to do is surely to acknowledge your luck, then double down by absolutely going for it in the transfer window with the money you’ve gained. Instead, Starmer has decided it wasn’t luck, that they were popular, and the triangulation should continue

    Labour did increase their voteshare by 1.6% in 2024 though over 2019
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,335
    edited 9:11AM
    Scott_xP said:

    @AccountableGOP

    Megyn Kelly in 2018: " There's no consenting for a 14 or even a 17 year old."

    Megyn Kelly today: "Jeffrey Epstein…was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."

    https://x.com/AccountableGOP/status/1989166977676636601?s=20

    Yes she’s right.

    Paedophilia is a sexual attraction to pre-pubescent children.

    Pederasty is a sexual attraction to teenagers.

    British law discriminates between the two, having sex with a girl under 13 is specifically a different and more serious offence than having sex with a girl under 16.

    Epstein was likely most attracted to collecting blackmail material on those who visited his island, he wanted 15 year olds dressed up to look like 19 year olds.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,243
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Disappointing news if it is confirmed Starmer and Reeves have backed away from income tax rises in the Budget.

    The obvious conclusions from this are a) the onus will be more on spending cuts to try to reverse the deficit which will please many on here and b) it's very likely we'll be back here having the same discussion in twelve months when borrowing remaind stubbornly high.

    Clearly, the argument tax rises would choke off any signs of returning business and consumer confidence has won the day and I get that but the idea now must be to try to slow the borrowing train and unless Reeves does something radical on property taxation (the signs aren't encouraging), it will be as much an admission economically the country is unmanageable since the economic decisions can't be taken for political reasons (though if your party is polling around or below 20%, there's another question).

    @isam, who, it's fair to say, is no friend of Starmer, Reeves or the Labour Government, makes the compelling point big victories should allow incoming Governments to be radical but that's not the case, more often than not. The Attlee example isn't valid because of the unique circumstances of 1945 - Thatcher's Government saved its real radicalism for the second term and Blair did little or nothing with his 1997 landslide and any thoughts of radicalism in the second term were disrupted by events elsewhere.

    You could perhaps argue Boris Johnson might have been a radical Prime Minister had it not been for the pandemic but talking radical and doing radical are very different things.

    Counter intuitively, it's often Governments with small majorities, who know time isn't on their side, who are often the most radical and the most united.

    Labour doesn't yet realise that time isn't on their side??
  • isamisam Posts: 42,998
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Disappointing news if it is confirmed Starmer and Reeves have backed away from income tax rises in the Budget.

    The obvious conclusions from this are a) the onus will be more on spending cuts to try to reverse the deficit which will please many on here and b) it's very likely we'll be back here having the same discussion in twelve months when borrowing remaind stubbornly high.

    Clearly, the argument tax rises would choke off any signs of returning business and consumer confidence has won the day and I get that but the idea now must be to try to slow the borrowing train and unless Reeves does something radical on property taxation (the signs aren't encouraging), it will be as much an admission economically the country is unmanageable since the economic decisions can't be taken for political reasons (though if your party is polling around or below 20%, there's another question).

    @isam, who, it's fair to say, is no friend of Starmer, Reeves or the Labour Government, makes the compelling point big victories should allow incoming Governments to be radical but that's not the case, more often than not. The Attlee example isn't valid because of the unique circumstances of 1945 - Thatcher's Government saved its real radicalism for the second term and Blair did little or nothing with his 1997 landslide and any thoughts of radicalism in the second term were disrupted by events elsewhere.

    You could perhaps argue Boris Johnson might have been a radical Prime Minister had it not been for the pandemic but talking radical and doing radical are very different things.

    Counter intuitively, it's often Governments with small majorities, who know time isn't on their side, who are often the most radical and the most united.

    Your last paragraph reinforces my belief that changing PM without a GE should be a much more difficult thing to do. If it wasn’t an option, parties would have to stick together and perhaps be encouraged to remember what they wanted to do with power.

    Changing PM without a GE is a bit like defectors not holding a by election really. Don’t like it myself
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,187
    Good morning

    The thread header simply shows how bizarre our politics have become

    Starmer and Reeves are hopeless, bending to every criticism and cowardly opting out of the right thing to do in favour of their desire for their perceived popularity which in itself is plainly on the floor

    Predictably bond rates are not impressed
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,994

    FPT

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Meanwhile in the land of MAGA trying to justify peadophiles

    @accountablegop.bsky.social‬

    Megyn Kelly: "I know somebody very close to this case…Jeffrey Epstein, in this person's view, was not a pedophile…He was into the barely legal type, like he liked 15 year old girls…He wasn't into like 8 year olds…There's a difference between a 15 year old and a 5 year old."

    https://bsky.app/profile/accountablegop.bsky.social/post/3m5jnc3lgx622

    N.B. Megyn has a 14 year old daughter

    Not really. The word peadophile is often wrongly used. They're not the same thing. Even the thing that has brought Prince Andrew down was about a 17yr old, totally legal. Of course if you want to raise the age of consent, then advocate for doing so.
    Its only legal for regular sex between consenting individuals.

    If money is involved, then 18 is the age.

    Illegal.
    Even if he didn’t know money was involved? I can quite believe Andrew M-W believing he was irresistible to her
    If Epstein was involved money will be there somewhere - even if it was just an investment in his "funds"
    I believe Guiffre was paid $15k a time.

    But my question was if Andrew M-W didn’t *know* that or suspect it, can he be held guilty?
    Wouldn't that be a matter for a jury to decide?
    In the specific case yes, but BartholomewRoberts was definitive in his assertion
    IANAL but AFAIK ignorance is normally no excuse under the law.

    Besides, its a convoluted area but I believe the law is pretty clear that under-18s can't give consent if money is involved. If someone else paid the money, I do not believe that changes the age of consent back down to 16, since consent can't be given.

    Again though, IANAL.
    The other issue is the date of the alleged offence in this specific case. As I understand it the main legislation protecting women and girls from trafficking today are the Sexual Offences Act 2003, the Asylum and Immigration Act 2009, and the Modern Slavery Act 2015. The alleged offence in this case would have occurred under the tangle of laws that existed in 2001. That makes the position more complex AIUI.

    Personally I’d be looking at a more, shall we say, Al Capone style resolution.
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