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The Reform paradox, being the country’s most popular and unpopular party – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,771
edited 6:56AM in General
The Reform paradox, being the country’s most popular and unpopular party – politicalbetting.com

This poll from YouGov confirms a hunch that I’ve had for a while, Reform are simultaneously the country’s most popular party and the country’s most unpopular party which bodes well for tactical anti Reform voting (see the Caerphilly by-election as an example.)

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,906
    But are the pollsters right? Still waiting for the refrom(?) of the local councils they run. They may turn out to be very popular.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,101
    I think the strategy for Reform must be KBO. We saw the villification of Liz Truss - the subject matter of the villification is really irrelevant - if you try to change the system, you're going to face massive opposition, and some people will listen to that opposition.

    Caerphilly was one of the most left wing constituencies in the country. If the left can't cobble together a byelection-winning coalition there, it's all up for them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,630
    edited 7:06AM

    I think the strategy for Reform must be KBO. We saw the villification of Liz Truss - the subject matter of the villification is really irrelevant - if you try to change the system, you're going to face massive opposition, and some people will listen to that opposition.

    Caerphilly was one of the most left wing constituencies in the country. If the left can't cobble together a byelection-winning coalition there, it's all up for them.

    It also voted 58% Leave, but I said at the time, the most interesting thing was the increased turnout.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,089
    edited 7:10AM
    Hmm. UKIP did pretty well there in 2015, coming in second (Lab 17.8k, UKIP 7.7k, Con 6.6k, Plaid 5.8k).

    May bode very ill in by-elections for Reform but there'll be less tactical voting come the General Election.

    Edited: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caerphilly_(UK_Parliament_constituency)#Elections_in_the_2010s
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,630
    edited 7:12AM
    FPT

    I see there were some incredibly uninformed comments about EV charging if you don't have your own driveway, pipe down until you've seen these options.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c987kepxg5po

    and.

    https://trojan.energy/trojanhome/

    ***Laughs as I pay 6p per kWh to charge my car.***
  • eekeek Posts: 31,836

    FPT

    I see there were some incredibly uninformed comments about EV charging, pipe down until you've seen these options if you don't have your own driveway.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c987kepxg5po

    and.

    https://trojan.energy/trojanhome/

    What happens when you can’t park outside your house because someone else’s car is there
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,630
    eek said:

    FPT

    I see there were some incredibly uninformed comments about EV charging, pipe down until you've seen these options if you don't have your own driveway.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c987kepxg5po

    and.

    https://trojan.energy/trojanhome/

    What happens when you can’t park outside your house because someone else’s car is there
    Cones, but I do remember reading that some councils are offering you exclusive parking bays outside your property if you have these installed.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,101
    edited 7:17AM
    Speaking of voting Leave, one policy strategy Reform might like to employ is the implementation of the Iain Duncan Smith Taskforce Report on Innovation, Growth and Regulatory Reform. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/taskforce-on-innovation-growth-and-regulatory-reform-independent-report

    Boris never did anything with it, and as we know, Kemi delivered nothing when she scrapped a pitiful speck of EU laws under Sunak.

    This would discomfit the Tories and open up a potentially wounding issue for them, as well as give Reform an interesting agenda beyond tax cuts, which they have now ruled out. And Brexit isn't really a difficult or divisive issue for Reform, for obvious reasons.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,906

    I think the strategy for Reform must be KBO. We saw the villification of Liz Truss - the subject matter of the villification is really irrelevant - if you try to change the system, you're going to face massive opposition, and some people will listen to that opposition.

    Caerphilly was one of the most left wing constituencies in the country. If the left can't cobble together a byelection-winning coalition there, it's all up for them.

    I may be having an AI hallucination, but I detected a move by Farage to be more mainstream this week. His NOTA is shifting to More of the Same - but MOTS would not be a winning name for a political party.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,089

    FPT

    I see there were some incredibly uninformed comments about EV charging if you don't have your own driveway, pipe down until you've seen these options.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c987kepxg5po

    and.

    https://trojan.energy/trojanhome/

    ***Laughs as I pay 6p per kWh to charge my car.***

    It’s only a matter of time until govt mandates separate meters for domestic car chargers, so they can charge a premium for car electrons over house electrons.

    If you want to charge for cheap overnight, you’ll be using a 13A socket.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,304
    What this shows is that the 30% or so Reform are on may not be enough to give them a majority or even most seats if opponents vote against them. Remember Poilievre's Conservatives got over 40% of the vote in Canada earlier this year but still lost due to massive tactical voting for Carney's Liberals. In France too Le Pen's party won the first round of the 2024 legislative elections but lost the runoff as anti RN voters voted for whichever party was their main opponent in each seat.


    What will worry Farage is over half of LD voters are willing to vote Labour to beat Reform in Labour seats but fewer than half of Tories are willing to tactically vote Reform. Indeed more Green voters say they would tactically vote Labour than Tory voters say they would tactically vote Reform.

    In Conservative held seats over a third of Labour and LD voters say they would tactically vote Tory to beat Reform. That could enable many Conservative MPs to cling on despite a Reform surge
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,854

    I think the strategy for Reform must be KBO. We saw the villification of Liz Truss - the subject matter of the villification is really irrelevant - if you try to change the system, you're going to face massive opposition, and some people will listen to that opposition.

    Caerphilly was one of the most left wing constituencies in the country. If the left can't cobble together a byelection-winning coalition there, it's all up for them.

    It also voted 58% Leave, but I said at the time, the most interesting thing was the increased turnout.
    Its like NYC. Give people a reason to vote and they will.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,189

    I think the strategy for Reform must be KBO. We saw the villification of Liz Truss - the subject matter of the villification is really irrelevant - if you try to change the system, you're going to face massive opposition, and some people will listen to that opposition.

    Caerphilly was one of the most left wing constituencies in the country. If the left can't cobble together a byelection-winning coalition there, it's all up for them.

    Did we miss reform winning that one, then?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,854
    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,491

    I think the strategy for Reform must be KBO. We saw the villification of Liz Truss - the subject matter of the villification is really irrelevant - if you try to change the system, you're going to face massive opposition, and some people will listen to that opposition.

    Caerphilly was one of the most left wing constituencies in the country. If the left can't cobble together a byelection-winning coalition there, it's all up for them.

    It also voted 58% Leave, but I said at the time, the most interesting thing was the increased turnout.
    It's not a cheerful thought, but doesn't dislike of candidates drive turnout? That and a perception that the result might be close. If the result is a foregone conclusion and the worst response is a shrug, it's pretty rational to not bother (see 1997, 2024).

    At the moment, Farage supporters are enthusiastic and hardly anyone else is, though Polanski fans are heading that way. FON's turnout filter picks that up, YouGov's model dials that down. Who is right in an actual election, especially if a constituency resolves down to Lab vs. Ref, remains to be seen.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,854
    HYUFD said:

    What this shows is that the 30% or so Reform are on may not be enough to give them a majority or even most seats if opponents vote against them. Remember Poilievre's Conservatives got over 40% of the vote in Canada earlier this year but still lost due to massive tactical voting for Carney's Liberals. In France too Le Pen's party won the first round of the 2024 legislative elections but lost the runoff as anti RN voters voted for whichever party was their main opponent in each seat.


    What will worry Farage is over half of LD voters are willing to vote Labour to beat Reform in Labour seats but fewer than half of Tories are willing to tactically vote Reform. Indeed more Green voters say they would tactically vote Labour than Tory voters say they would tactically vote Reform.

    In Conservative held seats over a third of Labour and LD voters say they would tactically vote Tory to beat Reform. That could enable many Conservative MPs to cling on despite a Reform surge

    My seat in Leics is likely to be a Tory/Reform fight.

    Why should I vote Tory when they are likely to prop up a Farage government?

    No way Jose!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,946
    Trump has gilded the entrance to the White House, which has prompted some new memes..
    https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/1986154749247545406
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,101
    HYUFD said:

    What this shows is that the 30% or so Reform are on may not be enough to give them a majority or even most seats if opponents vote against them. Remember Poilievre's Conservatives got over 40% of the vote in Canada earlier this year but still lost due to massive tactical voting for Carney's Liberals. In France too Le Pen's party won the first round of the 2024 legislative elections but lost the runoff as anti RN voters voted for whichever party was their main opponent in each seat.


    What will worry Farage is over half of LD voters are willing to vote Labour to beat Reform in Labour seats but fewer than half of Tories are willing to tactically vote Reform. Indeed more Green voters say they would tactically vote Labour than Tory voters say they would tactically vote Reform.

    In Conservative held seats over a third of Labour and LD voters say they would tactically vote Tory to beat Reform. That could enable many Conservative MPs to cling on despite a Reform surge

    That wasn't what happened in Caerphilly. Reform was extremely efficient in hoovering up the Tory vote - it's just there weren't enough.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,584
    The biggest issue Reform has is they won't have the competence, work ethic, guile or teamwork to put their programme into effect.

    My guess is they'd be like the ERG on acid - they would spend all their time pissing, with minor scandals, and be spectacularly ineffective.

    Jenrick, on the other hand, with Katie Lam would probably get quite a bit done.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,946
    It appears a few of the ghouls on the Supreme Court have some limits.
    The tariffs case is not going well for Trump.

    Gorsuch: What's the reason to accept the notion that Congress can hand off the power to declare war to the president?

    Sauer: Well, we don't contend that

    Gorsuch: You do, you say it's unreviewable…

    https://x.com/LucasSa56947288/status/1986102170496704816
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,101
    Battlebus said:

    I think the strategy for Reform must be KBO. We saw the villification of Liz Truss - the subject matter of the villification is really irrelevant - if you try to change the system, you're going to face massive opposition, and some people will listen to that opposition.

    Caerphilly was one of the most left wing constituencies in the country. If the left can't cobble together a byelection-winning coalition there, it's all up for them.

    I may be having an AI hallucination, but I detected a move by Farage to be more mainstream this week. His NOTA is shifting to More of the Same - but MOTS would not be a winning name for a political party.
    I somewhat agree, on both the shift and the danger of a lack of appeal in the shift.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,814

    The biggest issue Reform has is they won't have the competence, work ethic, guile or teamwork to put their programme into effect.

    My guess is they'd be like the ERG on acid - they would spend all their time pissing, with minor scandals, and be spectacularly ineffective.

    Jenrick, on the other hand, with Katie Lam would probably get quite a bit done.

    Katie Lam is busy working on a new version of the grandfather paradox where she travels back in time to stop her grandfather being allowed into the UK as a child refugee, thus preventing herself ever being born.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,899
    As well as a repeat visit to the Volgograd oil refinery (6th largest in Russia), there was also a fire at a refinery in Belarus and an ammunition storage depot hit at Donetsk airport. The word is that this was a large UAV warehouse that the Ukrainians have been trying to find for a long time.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,101

    The biggest issue Reform has is they won't have the competence, work ethic, guile or teamwork to put their programme into effect.

    My guess is they'd be like the ERG on acid - they would spend all their time pissing, with minor scandals, and be spectacularly ineffective.

    Jenrick, on the other hand, with Katie Lam would probably get quite a bit done.

    Totally agree. Which is why I think it needs to be a coalition.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,101

    FPT

    I see there were some incredibly uninformed comments about EV charging if you don't have your own driveway, pipe down until you've seen these options.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c987kepxg5po

    and.

    https://trojan.energy/trojanhome/

    ***Laughs as I pay 6p per kWh to charge my car.***

    Drive.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,769
    News from Bradford. After this year's 10% council tax rise, it looks like a 5% rise next year.

    All out elections in May. I'm not expecting Labour to retain control, to put it mildly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crex2w3985wo
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,888
    edited 7:42AM
    My take from Caerphilly and Runcorn is that voters on the Right will vote overwhelmingly for Reform, if they are best placed to win; and voters on the Left will vote overwhelmingly for the left wing party that is best placed to stop them.

    At least in by-election conditions.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,836

    News from Bradford. After this year's 10% council tax rise, it looks like a 5% rise next year.

    All out elections in May. I'm not expecting Labour to retain control, to put it mildly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crex2w3985wo

    As with all councils they have no money - so council tax goes up as much as possible every year while services decrease.

    And from memory Bradford is completely screwed by child social care - it really does have no money..
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,831
    Nigelb said:

    Trump has gilded the entrance to the White House, which has prompted some new memes..
    https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/1986154749247545406

    The best part of that whole story is the new signs are printed paper

    https://bsky.app/profile/paulandstorm.bsky.social/post/3m4vridyhfs22
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,089
    Foxy said:

    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.

    To be fair to him, at least he’s drawing attention to a situation that’s mostly been ignored by the international community, with more than 7,000 Christians killed in the country so far this year.

    The latest sanctions on Russia appear to be doing a good job as well, just need to send the Tomahawks to Ukraine now so they can take out the Shahed drone factory.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,101
    ...
    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump has gilded the entrance to the White House, which has prompted some new memes..
    https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/1986154749247545406

    The best part of that whole story is the new signs are printed paper

    https://bsky.app/profile/paulandstorm.bsky.social/post/3m4vridyhfs22
    I assume that's showing the signwriters where it's going.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,792
    edited 7:49AM
    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broken my leg and my orthopaedic consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough in time for me to travel safely. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,089

    As well as a repeat visit to the Volgograd oil refinery (6th largest in Russia), there was also a fire at a refinery in Belarus and an ammunition storage depot hit at Donetsk airport. The word is that this was a large UAV warehouse that the Ukrainians have been trying to find for a long time.

    Yes definitely a good night for Ukraine, lots of damage done. The smoking ammo dump near Pokrovsk should help ease the pressure that’s been building up there over the last couple of weeks.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,906

    FPT

    I see there were some incredibly uninformed comments about EV charging if you don't have your own driveway, pipe down until you've seen these options.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c987kepxg5po

    and.

    https://trojan.energy/trojanhome/

    ***Laughs as I pay 6p per kWh to charge my car.***

    Shouldn't that cable be replaced by a ball & chain? Depreciates like mad and you pay interest on the capital sum, while you wax lyrically about 6p per kWh.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,792

    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broeken my leg and consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough for me to safely travel. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?

    Very sorry to hear that. Hope the break mends more speedily than you expect.
    Thanks - appreciated.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,304
    eek said:

    News from Bradford. After this year's 10% council tax rise, it looks like a 5% rise next year.

    All out elections in May. I'm not expecting Labour to retain control, to put it mildly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crex2w3985wo

    As with all councils they have no money - so council tax goes up as much as possible every year while services decrease.

    And from memory Bradford is completely screwed by child social care - it really does have no money..
    Services should increase with all that extra tax revenue unless lots leave due to the tax burden
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,304

    HYUFD said:

    What this shows is that the 30% or so Reform are on may not be enough to give them a majority or even most seats if opponents vote against them. Remember Poilievre's Conservatives got over 40% of the vote in Canada earlier this year but still lost due to massive tactical voting for Carney's Liberals. In France too Le Pen's party won the first round of the 2024 legislative elections but lost the runoff as anti RN voters voted for whichever party was their main opponent in each seat.


    What will worry Farage is over half of LD voters are willing to vote Labour to beat Reform in Labour seats but fewer than half of Tories are willing to tactically vote Reform. Indeed more Green voters say they would tactically vote Labour than Tory voters say they would tactically vote Reform.

    In Conservative held seats over a third of Labour and LD voters say they would tactically vote Tory to beat Reform. That could enable many Conservative MPs to cling on despite a Reform surge

    That wasn't what happened in Caerphilly. Reform was extremely efficient in hoovering up the Tory vote - it's just there weren't enough.
    Against Plaid not Starmer Labour and a few Tories even went Plaid to beat Reform
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,906

    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broken my leg and my orthopaedic consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough in time for me to travel safely. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?

    Can't tell you about the insurance, but can tell you the holiday companies love cancellations. And they can claim the VAT back too.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,311
    Reform have a basic problem - all their visible leaders are Tories, most of their most vocal cheerleaders are racist morons, and many of their policies do egregious harm to the voters they are targeting.

    They have persuaded people in Jaywick and beyond that all their problems are forrin, and simply Send Them Back and their community will be a bustling paradise again.

    As we now get more elected fukers doing actual governing we see the truth - slash and burn to your services. Which will erode their voter coalition anyway. I've said before I'll say it again - they will lose people to the right. Once you weaponise ignorant racism you can always be outmanoeuvred to the right. The Tories keep going absurdly dog whistle racist and get nowhere as Reform are beyond them. Next will be Reform, outflanked and out-gobbed by Tommy Ten-Names and Advance UK.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,630

    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broken my leg and my orthopaedic consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough in time for me to travel safely. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?

    It'll whack up your premiums for the next few years, sadly there's not any 'protected no claims discount' for travel insurance.

    Circa 2003 when I hurt my knee I claimed on my AMEX insurance and when I went to renew I was unable to tick the box where it said have you made any claims in the last five years.

    Hope you feel better soon.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,848
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    News from Bradford. After this year's 10% council tax rise, it looks like a 5% rise next year.

    All out elections in May. I'm not expecting Labour to retain control, to put it mildly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crex2w3985wo

    As with all councils they have no money - so council tax goes up as much as possible every year while services decrease.

    And from memory Bradford is completely screwed by child social care - it really does have no money..
    Services should increase with all that extra tax revenue unless lots leave due to the tax burden
    The majority of councils revenue is govt funding which has been cut. So in real terms their funding has decreased even though council tax is increasing.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,814
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.

    To be fair to him, at least he’s drawing attention to a situation that’s mostly been ignored by the international community, with more than 7,000 Christians killed in the country so far this year.

    The latest sanctions on Russia appear to be doing a good job as well, just need to send the Tomahawks to Ukraine now so they can take out the Shahed drone factory.
    The 7000 figure is made up: see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqlzkdeeqjo

    “Adding the number of death referenced in these reports cited by InterSociety does not result in the stated total of 7,000.

    “The BBC added up the number of deaths from the 70 reports and found that the total was around 3,000 deaths. Some of the attacks also appear to be reported more than once.”
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,228

    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broken my leg and my orthopaedic consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough in time for me to travel safely. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?

    Did you pay with a credit card that comes with free travel insurance?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,358

    ...

    Scott_xP said:

    Nigelb said:

    Trump has gilded the entrance to the White House, which has prompted some new memes..
    https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/1986154749247545406

    The best part of that whole story is the new signs are printed paper

    https://bsky.app/profile/paulandstorm.bsky.social/post/3m4vridyhfs22
    I assume that's showing the signwriters where it's going.
    Where will he put the big neon signs "TO THE TRUMP BALLROOM"?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,304
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What this shows is that the 30% or so Reform are on may not be enough to give them a majority or even most seats if opponents vote against them. Remember Poilievre's Conservatives got over 40% of the vote in Canada earlier this year but still lost due to massive tactical voting for Carney's Liberals. In France too Le Pen's party won the first round of the 2024 legislative elections but lost the runoff as anti RN voters voted for whichever party was their main opponent in each seat.


    What will worry Farage is over half of LD voters are willing to vote Labour to beat Reform in Labour seats but fewer than half of Tories are willing to tactically vote Reform. Indeed more Green voters say they would tactically vote Labour than Tory voters say they would tactically vote Reform.

    In Conservative held seats over a third of Labour and LD voters say they would tactically vote Tory to beat Reform. That could enable many Conservative MPs to cling on despite a Reform surge

    My seat in Leics is likely to be a Tory/Reform fight.

    Why should I vote Tory when they are likely to prop up a Farage government?

    No way Jose!
    Even if you don't that poll shows a third would. Cleverly would likely get even more Labour and LD tactical votes as he would not prop up a Reform minority government unlike Jenrick and maybe Badenoch but abstain
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,792
    rcs1000 said:

    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broken my leg and my orthopaedic consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough in time for me to travel safely. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?

    Did you pay with a credit card that comes with free travel insurance?
    Good question - but sadly not.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,358
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    What this shows is that the 30% or so Reform are on may not be enough to give them a majority or even most seats if opponents vote against them. Remember Poilievre's Conservatives got over 40% of the vote in Canada earlier this year but still lost due to massive tactical voting for Carney's Liberals. In France too Le Pen's party won the first round of the 2024 legislative elections but lost the runoff as anti RN voters voted for whichever party was their main opponent in each seat.


    What will worry Farage is over half of LD voters are willing to vote Labour to beat Reform in Labour seats but fewer than half of Tories are willing to tactically vote Reform. Indeed more Green voters say they would tactically vote Labour than Tory voters say they would tactically vote Reform.

    In Conservative held seats over a third of Labour and LD voters say they would tactically vote Tory to beat Reform. That could enable many Conservative MPs to cling on despite a Reform surge

    My seat in Leics is likely to be a Tory/Reform fight.

    Why should I vote Tory when they are likely to prop up a Farage government?

    No way Jose!
    Even if you don't that poll shows a third would. Cleverly would likely get even more Labour and LD tactical votes as he would not prop up a Reform minority government unlike Jenrick and maybe Badenoch but abstain
    Any Tory that would not prop up Reform will get more votes than Jenrick. Why vote Tory to prop up Reform when you can just vote Reform directly?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 35,792
    Battlebus said:

    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broken my leg and my orthopaedic consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough in time for me to travel safely. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?

    Can't tell you about the insurance, but can tell you the holiday companies love cancellations. And they can claim the VAT back too.
    Yeah, I bet. It's an accessible cabin too and there's always a wait list for those as cruises approach so they will haave no issue reselling it. I'll ask them is they'll give me a future cruise credit for the deposit but I know the answer :-(
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,089

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.

    To be fair to him, at least he’s drawing attention to a situation that’s mostly been ignored by the international community, with more than 7,000 Christians killed in the country so far this year.

    The latest sanctions on Russia appear to be doing a good job as well, just need to send the Tomahawks to Ukraine now so they can take out the Shahed drone factory.
    The 7000 figure is made up: see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqlzkdeeqjo

    “Adding the number of death referenced in these reports cited by InterSociety does not result in the stated total of 7,000.

    “The BBC added up the number of deaths from the 70 reports and found that the total was around 3,000 deaths. Some of the attacks also appear to be reported more than once.”
    The 7,000 figure comes from a Nigerian NGO on the ground, International Society for Civil Liberties and the Rule of Law, and was reported by Newsweek. https://www.newsweek.com/christians-killed-nigeria-religion-2116416
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 33,101
    edited 8:00AM
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    What this shows is that the 30% or so Reform are on may not be enough to give them a majority or even most seats if opponents vote against them. Remember Poilievre's Conservatives got over 40% of the vote in Canada earlier this year but still lost due to massive tactical voting for Carney's Liberals. In France too Le Pen's party won the first round of the 2024 legislative elections but lost the runoff as anti RN voters voted for whichever party was their main opponent in each seat.


    What will worry Farage is over half of LD voters are willing to vote Labour to beat Reform in Labour seats but fewer than half of Tories are willing to tactically vote Reform. Indeed more Green voters say they would tactically vote Labour than Tory voters say they would tactically vote Reform.

    In Conservative held seats over a third of Labour and LD voters say they would tactically vote Tory to beat Reform. That could enable many Conservative MPs to cling on despite a Reform surge

    That wasn't what happened in Caerphilly. Reform was extremely efficient in hoovering up the Tory vote - it's just there weren't enough.
    Against Plaid not Starmer Labour and a few Tories even went Plaid to beat Reform
    Did Starmer Labour not participate in the byelection?

    Caerphilly provides absolutely no evidence for your theories - the Tory vote collapsed neatly into the Reform vote, and I'd like to see any backing up of your claim that anyone bar a few loons on day-release went Tory to Plaid.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 21,032

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.

    To be fair to him, at least he’s drawing attention to a situation that’s mostly been ignored by the international community, with more than 7,000 Christians killed in the country so far this year.

    The latest sanctions on Russia appear to be doing a good job as well, just need to send the Tomahawks to Ukraine now so they can take out the Shahed drone factory.
    The 7000 figure is made up: see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqlzkdeeqjo

    “Adding the number of death referenced in these reports cited by InterSociety does not result in the stated total of 7,000.

    “The BBC added up the number of deaths from the 70 reports and found that the total was around 3,000 deaths. Some of the attacks also appear to be reported more than once.”
    Oh well just 3000 dead? That’s fine then…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,946
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    News from Bradford. After this year's 10% council tax rise, it looks like a 5% rise next year.

    All out elections in May. I'm not expecting Labour to retain control, to put it mildly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crex2w3985wo

    As with all councils they have no money - so council tax goes up as much as possible every year while services decrease.

    And from memory Bradford is completely screwed by child social care - it really does have no money..
    Services should increase with all that extra tax revenue unless lots leave due to the tax burden
    Why ?

    Inflationary and wage pressures; largely unfunded rise in NI costs imposed by government; increasing demand for services legally mandated (but not directly funded) by central government ... etc

    Are you really so unaware of the problems of local government ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,304
    Dopermean said:

    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    News from Bradford. After this year's 10% council tax rise, it looks like a 5% rise next year.

    All out elections in May. I'm not expecting Labour to retain control, to put it mildly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crex2w3985wo

    As with all councils they have no money - so council tax goes up as much as possible every year while services decrease.

    And from memory Bradford is completely screwed by child social care - it really does have no money..
    Services should increase with all that extra tax revenue unless lots leave due to the tax burden
    The majority of councils revenue is govt funding which has been cut. So in real terms their funding has decreased even though council tax is increasing.
    Reeves also whacking up tax at central government level
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,769
    HYUFD said:

    eek said:

    News from Bradford. After this year's 10% council tax rise, it looks like a 5% rise next year.

    All out elections in May. I'm not expecting Labour to retain control, to put it mildly.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crex2w3985wo

    As with all councils they have no money - so council tax goes up as much as possible every year while services decrease.

    And from memory Bradford is completely screwed by child social care - it really does have no money..
    Services should increase with all that extra tax revenue unless lots leave due to the tax burden
    I very much doubt it. The 10% rise was accompanied by service cuts and a fire sale of assets. Expect more of the same. The books don't balance.

    The Tories held Keighley in the GE at least in part due to service cuts impacting the constituency.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 12,110

    The biggest issue Reform has is they won't have the competence, work ethic, guile or teamwork to put their programme into effect.

    My guess is they'd be like the ERG on acid - they would spend all their time pissing, with minor scandals, and be spectacularly ineffective.

    Jenrick, on the other hand, with Katie Lam would probably get quite a bit done.

    Katie Lam is busy working on a new version of the grandfather paradox where she travels back in time to stop her grandfather being allowed into the UK as a child refugee, thus preventing herself ever being born.
    Let's just hope she doesn't hit on the idea of stopping Boris Johnson's and Rishi Sunak's ancestors in, or the Tory party might be back in business.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 131,304
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.

    To be fair to him, at least he’s drawing attention to a situation that’s mostly been ignored by the international community, with more than 7,000 Christians killed in the country so far this year.

    The latest sanctions on Russia appear to be doing a good job as well, just need to send the Tomahawks to Ukraine now so they can take out the Shahed drone factory.
    Christians are being killed by the Boko Haram rebels not the Nigerian army who are fighting Boko Haram
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,311
    I called out Caerphilly as peak Farage and I am sticking with it - their numbers have at best plateaued and at worst have started to shrink back a little. They're now being exposed on policy and that exposure is damaging to them.

    Here is the simple truth - there is no solution to our current mess that voters will accept. We can't raise taxes. We can't slash public services which have already been slashed, so all that's left is removing provision of things like adult social care completely which will have its own gargantuan costs as chaos follows. We can't apparently challenge the status quo - treasury orthodoxy, faux-market complex costly structures, investment, taxation.

    Reform won all this support because they offered a Change. A Solution. Making MY life better for once. But they can't do that - and as council after council is taken by Reform, beset by wazzockry and does little other than cut services and increase council tax, people will continue to shrink back from them.

    As always, the trend is your friend, and this particular survey is very useful. Most voters hate Farage and everything he stands for. They'll swing vote all over the shop to stop him. So Reform need to nail their vote down to counter this, and it's just going to slide away from them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,089

    Battlebus said:

    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broken my leg and my orthopaedic consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough in time for me to travel safely. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?

    Can't tell you about the insurance, but can tell you the holiday companies love cancellations. And they can claim the VAT back too.
    Yeah, I bet. It's an accessible cabin too and there's always a wait list for those as cruises approach so they will haave no issue reselling it. I'll ask them is they'll give me a future cruise credit for the deposit but I know the answer :-(
    It’s always worth asking about credit for the deposit if they resell the cabin, especially if there’s likely to be demand for it. Say that you’ll rebook straight away.

    I follow this lady who blogs about cruises, there’s a load of useful information on her website. https://emmacruises.com/

    Good luck and get well soon!
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,089
    I never like talking on the phone. But a cold call at 8am is especially irritating.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,754
    Nigelb said:

    Trump has gilded the entrance to the White House, which has prompted some new memes..
    https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/1986154749247545406

    If anyone is likely to have a gold leafed tradesman’s entrance it would be Trump.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,814
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.

    To be fair to him, at least he’s drawing attention to a situation that’s mostly been ignored by the international community, with more than 7,000 Christians killed in the country so far this year.

    The latest sanctions on Russia appear to be doing a good job as well, just need to send the Tomahawks to Ukraine now so they can take out the Shahed drone factory.
    The 7000 figure is made up: see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqlzkdeeqjo

    “Adding the number of death referenced in these reports cited by InterSociety does not result in the stated total of 7,000.

    “The BBC added up the number of deaths from the 70 reports and found that the total was around 3,000 deaths. Some of the attacks also appear to be reported more than once.”
    The 7,000 figure comes from a Nigerian NGO on the ground, International Society for Civil Liberties and the Rule of Law, and was reported by Newsweek. https://www.newsweek.com/christians-killed-nigeria-religion-2116416
    The 7,000 figure does come from a Nigerian NGO. The BBC, unlike Newsweek, have actually examined their claims and their numbers literally don’t add up.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,311

    I never like talking on the phone. But a cold call at 8am is especially irritating.

    I am going to be hounded by Sky having refused their offer and cancelled. I will ignore them a bit. And then listen to their counter offer. It needs to be spectacular or they can have their box back next month.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,311

    Nigelb said:

    Trump has gilded the entrance to the White House, which has prompted some new memes..
    https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/1986154749247545406

    If anyone is likely to have a gold leafed tradesman’s entrance it would be Trump.
    His bottom? Yeah probably.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,814

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.

    To be fair to him, at least he’s drawing attention to a situation that’s mostly been ignored by the international community, with more than 7,000 Christians killed in the country so far this year.

    The latest sanctions on Russia appear to be doing a good job as well, just need to send the Tomahawks to Ukraine now so they can take out the Shahed drone factory.
    The 7000 figure is made up: see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqlzkdeeqjo

    “Adding the number of death referenced in these reports cited by InterSociety does not result in the stated total of 7,000.

    “The BBC added up the number of deaths from the 70 reports and found that the total was around 3,000 deaths. Some of the attacks also appear to be reported more than once.”
    Oh well just 3000 dead? That’s fine then…
    The ongoing attacks by Boko Haram are terrible. However, they are not only killing Christians (as MAGA claims), they haven’t killed 7000 (as MAGA claim) and the situation has not been ignored by the international community (as MAGA claim). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/30/uk-government-announces-200m-care-package-fight-famine-caused-by-boko-haram describes the UK giving £200 million in 2017.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,089

    I never like talking on the phone. But a cold call at 8am is especially irritating.

    I am going to be hounded by Sky having refused their offer and cancelled. I will ignore them a bit. And then listen to their counter offer. It needs to be spectacular or they can have their box back next month.
    One thing I've noticed with a couple of stores (by chance, I tend to browse a lot before eventually buying) is getting an e-mail noting I've not checked out and offering a small discount.

    This was entirely different, though, a 'local energy adviser' etc etc.

    Has Sky hiked their bills? I don't have it, but I know Xbox has upped Gamepass subs ridiculously, to the extent the cancellation site crashed due to excessive demand.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,311
    Apparently Reform are racist - who knew?

    https://x.com/mrhenrymorris/status/1986343260604768588/photo/1
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,358
    edited 8:17AM
    Troubling signs of the state of the US economy:

    "The rainy day fund is bone dry.... We're broke. The country is broke. Consumers are broke."

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvAjAOdmzBw
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,650

    FPT

    I see there were some incredibly uninformed comments about EV charging if you don't have your own driveway, pipe down until you've seen these options.



    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c987kepxg5po

    and.

    https://trojan.energy/trojanhome/

    ***Laughs as I pay 6p per kWh to charge my car.***

    Drive.
    That’s just an abbreviation. “Driveway” is the correct English term as in “at 41.4miles the road leading from his house in Galway to his family seat was considered the longest private driveway in the whole of the United Kingdom”
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,491

    I called out Caerphilly as peak Farage and I am sticking with it - their numbers have at best plateaued and at worst have started to shrink back a little. They're now being exposed on policy and that exposure is damaging to them.

    Here is the simple truth - there is no solution to our current mess that voters will accept. We can't raise taxes. We can't slash public services which have already been slashed, so all that's left is removing provision of things like adult social care completely which will have its own gargantuan costs as chaos follows. We can't apparently challenge the status quo - treasury orthodoxy, faux-market complex costly structures, investment, taxation.

    Reform won all this support because they offered a Change. A Solution. Making MY life better for once. But they can't do that - and as council after council is taken by Reform, beset by wazzockry and does little other than cut services and increase council tax, people will continue to shrink back from them.

    As always, the trend is your friend, and this particular survey is very useful. Most voters hate Farage and everything he stands for. They'll swing vote all over the shop to stop him. So Reform need to nail their vote down to counter this, and it's just going to slide away from them.

    Leaving aside the effect of voters seeing Reform in action, what's the effect on the activists?

    There's a type of politician who is very effective while in opposition. Asking difficult questions, throwing effective bricks, but also standing up for their patch. Nothing shameful in any of that, the system doesn't work without that degree of piss and vinegar.

    But it's a blooming disaster if such people end up running the show. To govern is to choose, and populism is often about denial that choices is necessary. Havering Council is currently run by the Residents' Association, who are another version of that archetype, and they're not particularly enjoying the experience. Some Labour MPs are also hating being the ones in the big chair.

    Why should Reform be any different?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,711

    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.

    To be fair to him, at least he’s drawing attention to a situation that’s mostly been ignored by the international community, with more than 7,000 Christians killed in the country so far this year.

    The latest sanctions on Russia appear to be doing a good job as well, just need to send the Tomahawks to Ukraine now so they can take out the Shahed drone factory.
    The 7000 figure is made up: see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgqlzkdeeqjo

    “Adding the number of death referenced in these reports cited by InterSociety does not result in the stated total of 7,000.

    “The BBC added up the number of deaths from the 70 reports and found that the total was around 3,000 deaths. Some of the attacks also appear to be reported more than once.”
    Oh well just 3000 dead? That’s fine then…
    The ongoing attacks by Boko Haram are terrible. However, they are not only killing Christians (as MAGA claims), they haven’t killed 7000 (as MAGA claim) and the situation has not been ignored by the international community (as MAGA claim). https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/30/uk-government-announces-200m-care-package-fight-famine-caused-by-boko-haram describes the UK giving £200 million in 2017.
    Why is MAGA bothered who is being killed or how many. America First 'init?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,361

    The biggest issue Reform has is they won't have the competence, work ethic, guile or teamwork to put their programme into effect.

    My guess is they'd be like the ERG on acid - they would spend all their time pissing, with minor scandals, and be spectacularly ineffective.

    Jenrick, on the other hand, with Katie Lam would probably get quite a bit done.

    Totally agree. Which is why I think it needs to be a coalition.
    The problem is that the Tory party got infected with the yellow peril and it’s not obvious they have yet removed the rot. They decided the only way to win was to ape Blair, rather than holding true to small c conservative beliefs and waiting for that project to collapse. And as Buffet has said, if you pretend to be something for long enough, you turn into it. It’s therefore hard to trust that they won’t just knife whatever leader espouses right wing policies once they get back into government.

    Meanwhile there’s a widespread view that Reform are a one-man-band without any coherent policy book. While they are not there yet, seems to me they are spending this parliament quietly building bench strength and developing a coherent project across a broad range of policies. Because it’s starting from scratch, there has also rarely if ever been a better opportunity for well informed people to get specific policy ideas into a manifesto for s government in waiting.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,711
    On the header, could Morgan McSweeney be right?

  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,595
    So research proves that X has become a right wing cesspit since Musk took over . The algorithm is designed to amplify right wing views . None of this will come as a surprise .
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,650

    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broken my leg and my orthopaedic consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough in time for me to travel safely. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?

    I don’t have experience but usually on pet insurance it’s because (a) it’s a real shit product and (b) one event is expected to increase the risk of future events. In your case I’m assuming the broken leg is unconnected to being in a wheelchair so in theory you should be able to shop around in future if it is a one time event.

    Hope it heals well and quickly
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,358

    I never like talking on the phone. But a cold call at 8am is especially irritating.

    But probably unusually effective in getting you to pick up as "Who is calling me at this time. Is there some family problem I need to be aware of?" gets you answering. Cynical, but effective.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 58,089
    nico67 said:

    So research proves that X has become a right wing cesspit since Musk took over . The algorithm is designed to amplify right wing views . None of this will come as a surprise .

    Don’t worry, BlueSky is still a left-wing cesspit if that’s your preference.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,595

    On the header, could Morgan McSweeney be right?

    It’s a risky gamble . Labour might become so toxic that it reduces any tactical voting . They still need to give people a reason to have them as their second option .
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,899
    The most important figures are that Reform benefits by a net ~one-third of the Tory vote share, and Labour benefits by a net ~45% of the Lib Dem/Green vote share.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,361
    Sandpit said:

    Foxy said:

    Trimp serving up distraction for the Epsteinth time. This time it is a threat to invade Nigeria.

    https://bsky.app/profile/ronfilipkowski.bsky.social/post/3m4wexfdtx22z

    I forsee some logistical challenges to that.

    To be fair to him, at least he’s drawing attention to a situation that’s mostly been ignored by the international community, with more than 7,000 Christians killed in the country so far this year.

    The latest sanctions on Russia appear to be doing a good job as well, just need to send the Tomahawks to Ukraine now so they can take out the Shahed drone factory.
    The latest sanctions are having a surprisingly massive impact. The way it’s going, India and Turkey are going to have to decide pretty soon whether they still want to export refined product, or want cheap Urals for their domestic consumption. The international banking sector has in parts, reacted to the new sanctions in a surprisingly conservative way and it’s gumming up the international trade finance for Indian/Turkish origin shipments.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,523
    Morning all :)

    The YouGov data holds few surprises but it illuminates the Conservative dilemma. IF there is even an hint they would prop up or support in any way a minority Reform Government, they would lose the support of those prepared to support them tactically against Reform.

    On the other hand, if the Conservatives eschew any support for Reform, what happens if the parliamentary arithmetic means the continuation of a Labour-led Government is dependent on their support?

    I draw some amusement from seeing the Conservatives now in the same position the Alliance and later the Liberal Democrats were, Equidistance gets you only so far - when the time comes, which way do the Tories jump knowing whatever they do will cost them further support?

    The only way back for the Conservatives is to once again become the leading party of the “right” or should that be “anti-left” - I sense the biggest grouping on here has always been those opposed to what they see as “the left” - and the only way for that to happen is for Reform to fail. The question then becomes do they watch Reform fail from the inside in Government or from the outside in Opposition?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,358
    If the shine does come off Reform bigly by the next election - who benefits? If Labour is still a shit show - which looks a fair prospect - then the Tories significantly rebound.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,590
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I do have to giggle about the EV per mile exclusive. In the Telegraph - which is the first sign that it isn’t true because so little they print as “news” is.

    Comedy - it’s pay per mile. But no monitoring. Honest motorists will fill in EV bureaucrat paperwork each year and self declare how many miles they have driven.

    What do Telegraph owners hate? Government bureaucrats and EVs. So of course they have magically conflated the two.

    As you are around - have you seen Tesla's (lack of sales) in October

    So the SMMT have published sales figures for October

    Battery EV sales rose 24% compared to October 2024

    TESLA however sold only 511 cars compared to 971 cars in October 2024 - that’s a 47% drop

    So the new models were a very temporary boost and the reality is that a Tesla car is not something people seem to want.
    Tesla sales in the first month of any given quarter are always shit. They deliver very few vehicles - never have. Which is why you need to look at the quarter
    IIRC Tesla charters ships to deliver their cars from US to UK, so they arrive in batches of 5,000 rather than steadily as with most other manufacturers who rent space on existing shipping routes.
    A slight "yes, but". About 2/3 of Tesla European sales are made in Berlin (Model Ys). YTD (Aug/Sept) approx sales figures:

    Year-to-date (Jan-Sep) sales for the Model Y are 109,793, while the Model 3 has sold 49,524 units from Jan-Aug 2025.

    That's enough for roughly one Model 3 transport from the USA every month at 5000 per.

    (As an aside, that's not a lot to my eye for a place the size of their Berlin factory.)

    As an aside, I take the flappage from the Telegraph yesterday as an attempt to create frightening narratives to wind up their Captain Mainwaring in his shed in Tunbridge Wells (it may be a posh shed).
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,899
    nico67 said:

    On the header, could Morgan McSweeney be right?

    It’s a risky gamble . Labour might become so toxic that it reduces any tactical voting . They still need to give people a reason to have them as their second option .
    The 12% of Lib Dem supporters who would vote Reform over Labour is a warning. That percentage could grow.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,089

    I never like talking on the phone. But a cold call at 8am is especially irritating.

    But probably unusually effective in getting you to pick up as "Who is calling me at this time. Is there some family problem I need to be aware of?" gets you answering. Cynical, but effective.
    Effective in getting me to answer. But I wasn't exactly well-disposed to the caller. I wasn't rude, but I was fairly... straightforward.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,311

    On the header, could Morgan McSweeney be right?

    No. As its reported McSweney believes that people will stick with Labour because Labour are delivering and aren't nasty.

    This is cobblers.

    We are going to see 4 / 5 / 6 way marginals, with sitting Labour MPs ousted to 4th or 5th. Some will survive of course as the least worst option. But that is not a McSweeney vote of confidence in Labour, and leaves a parliament where there is a choice of rainbow coalitions:

    AXIS: Reform / Tories / DUP / Advance / exReform splinters 1 & 2
    ALLIES: Labour / LibDem / SNP / Plaid / Alliance / Green / Your Party / ex YP splinters 1,2,3,4, 5 & 6
  • EmptyNesterEmptyNester Posts: 95

    I never like talking on the phone. But a cold call at 8am is especially irritating.

    I am going to be hounded by Sky having refused their offer and cancelled. I will ignore them a bit. And then listen to their counter offer. It needs to be spectacular or they can have their box back next month.
    Since leaving over 4 months ago we’ve been bombarded with emails and snail mail, offering a deal they refused to consider during renewal negotiations. Had it been on the table then, we would still be customers, but we will not be returning.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,754

    Nigelb said:

    Trump has gilded the entrance to the White House, which has prompted some new memes..
    https://x.com/GovPressOffice/status/1986154749247545406

    If anyone is likely to have a gold leafed tradesman’s entrance it would be Trump.
    His bottom? Yeah probably.
    I made a conscious decision not to use the word encrusted. I hope people appreciate that,

  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,590
    edited 8:29AM
    Sandpit said:

    nico67 said:

    So research proves that X has become a right wing cesspit since Musk took over . The algorithm is designed to amplify right wing views . None of this will come as a surprise .

    Don’t worry, BlueSky is still a left-wing cesspit if that’s your preference.
    I run both, and OTOH BlueSky is not the instrument of a neo-fascist conspiraloon trying to drive his poisonous values into our country.

    OTOH BlueSky went through 40 million users a few days ago. I've no idea what that means long term, but half a year ago I said we would not know for sure until mid-late 2026.

    If it's under 100 million in 12 months time, then I'd say it will stay as a (large) niche product.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,228
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I do have to giggle about the EV per mile exclusive. In the Telegraph - which is the first sign that it isn’t true because so little they print as “news” is.

    Comedy - it’s pay per mile. But no monitoring. Honest motorists will fill in EV bureaucrat paperwork each year and self declare how many miles they have driven.

    What do Telegraph owners hate? Government bureaucrats and EVs. So of course they have magically conflated the two.

    As you are around - have you seen Tesla's (lack of sales) in October

    So the SMMT have published sales figures for October

    Battery EV sales rose 24% compared to October 2024

    TESLA however sold only 511 cars compared to 971 cars in October 2024 - that’s a 47% drop

    So the new models were a very temporary boost and the reality is that a Tesla car is not something people seem to want.
    Tesla sales in the first month of any given quarter are always shit. They deliver very few vehicles - never have. Which is why you need to look at the quarter
    IIRC Tesla charters ships to deliver their cars from US to UK, so they arrive in batches of 5,000 rather than steadily as with most other manufacturers who rent space on existing shipping routes.
    A slight "yes, but". About 2/3 of Tesla European sales are made in Berlin (Model Ys). YTD (Aug/Sept) approx sales figures:

    Year-to-date (Jan-Sep) sales for the Model Y are 109,793, while the Model 3 has sold 49,524 units from Jan-Aug 2025.

    That's enough for roughly one Model 3 transport from the USA every month at 5000 per.

    (As an aside, that's not a lot to my eye for a place the size of their Berlin factory.)

    As an aside, I take the flappage from the Telegraph yesterday as an attempt to create frightening narratives to wind up their Captain Mainwaring in his shed in Tunbridge Wells (it may be a posh shed).
    Tesla is not having a good year, from a traditional 'selling cars' perspective.

    They've been hit by a trifecta of reduced subsidies in the US, greater competition, and Elon trashing the brand with the kind of people who buy Teslas.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,491

    I never like talking on the phone. But a cold call at 8am is especially irritating.

    But probably unusually effective in getting you to pick up as "Who is calling me at this time. Is there some family problem I need to be aware of?" gets you answering. Cynical, but effective.
    Effective in getting me to answer. But I wasn't exactly well-disposed to the caller. I wasn't rude, but I was fairly... straightforward.
    And that's why we love you. But it would surprise me if it worked well at a statistical level.

    (Most of the terrible things about modern life happen because they work on enough people for them to be worth doing.)
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,899
    Sandpit said:

    As well as a repeat visit to the Volgograd oil refinery (6th largest in Russia), there was also a fire at a refinery in Belarus and an ammunition storage depot hit at Donetsk airport. The word is that this was a large UAV warehouse that the Ukrainians have been trying to find for a long time.

    Yes definitely a good night for Ukraine, lots of damage done. The smoking ammo dump near Pokrovsk should help ease the pressure that’s been building up there over the last couple of weeks.
    Ukraine also hit a large (3.7GW) thermal power plant that supplies Moscow.

    Ukraine's attacks on electricity substations appear to be focused on cutting off Moscow from electricity supply. This winter Ukraine is able to respond to attacks on its electricity infrastructure with attacks on the electricity supply to Moscow. It will be interesting to see whether this is successful enough to create a deterrent effect and how Muscovites will respond to experiencing the war more directly.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 68,082

    O/T question...

    Looks like we will have to cancel a cruise booked for Feb as I have broken my leg and my orthopaedic consultant is not confident it will be fixed well enough in time for me to travel safely. Due to pay the balance on Monday so now is the time to cancel.

    Cunard won't give me back the deposit (c. £2k) but I could claim it off my travel insurance.

    Question: do any PBers have experience of what impact claiming on travel insurance might have on future premiums? Just wondering if it's like pet insurance - claim once and the insurers bump up future premiums massively. The thing is with travel insurance, I feel it's non-negotiable as the costs if uninsured could be huge.

    Any views?

    Good morning

    As you may be aware we travelled worldwide extensively from 2003 to 2019 and our premiums progressively increased with our age and pre existing medical conditions to the point that our travel insurance today would be more than the price of a cruise even if we could get it

    I do not think your premiums would rise because of a claim but everything will evolve around your medical declaration and age

    Hence why you should follow your dreams whilst you can and see the world

    I would strongly advise not to be tempted to travel abroad without insurance
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,477
    edited 8:34AM
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I do have to giggle about the EV per mile exclusive. In the Telegraph - which is the first sign that it isn’t true because so little they print as “news” is.

    Comedy - it’s pay per mile. But no monitoring. Honest motorists will fill in EV bureaucrat paperwork each year and self declare how many miles they have driven.

    What do Telegraph owners hate? Government bureaucrats and EVs. So of course they have magically conflated the two.

    As you are around - have you seen Tesla's (lack of sales) in October

    So the SMMT have published sales figures for October

    Battery EV sales rose 24% compared to October 2024

    TESLA however sold only 511 cars compared to 971 cars in October 2024 - that’s a 47% drop

    So the new models were a very temporary boost and the reality is that a Tesla car is not something people seem to want.
    Tesla sales in the first month of any given quarter are always shit. They deliver very few vehicles - never have. Which is why you need to look at the quarter
    IIRC Tesla charters ships to deliver their cars from US to UK, so they arrive in batches of 5,000 rather than steadily as with most other manufacturers who rent space on existing shipping routes.
    A slight "yes, but". About 2/3 of Tesla European sales are made in Berlin (Model Ys). YTD (Aug/Sept) approx sales figures:

    Year-to-date (Jan-Sep) sales for the Model Y are 109,793, while the Model 3 has sold 49,524 units from Jan-Aug 2025.

    That's enough for roughly one Model 3 transport from the USA every month at 5000 per.

    (As an aside, that's not a lot to my eye for a place the size of their Berlin factory.)

    As an aside, I take the flappage from the Telegraph yesterday as an attempt to create frightening narratives to wind up their Captain Mainwaring in his shed in Tunbridge Wells (it may be a posh shed).
    Ah, I hadn't realised it was the Telegraph.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 63,089

    I never like talking on the phone. But a cold call at 8am is especially irritating.

    But probably unusually effective in getting you to pick up as "Who is calling me at this time. Is there some family problem I need to be aware of?" gets you answering. Cynical, but effective.
    Effective in getting me to answer. But I wasn't exactly well-disposed to the caller. I wasn't rude, but I was fairly... straightforward.
    And that's why we love you. But it would surprise me if it worked well at a statistical level.

    (Most of the terrible things about modern life happen because they work on enough people for them to be worth doing.)
    Aye. Like being obnoxious/ill-informed on social media so there's a lot of interaction then the algorithm promotes the ignorance and idiocy.

    It's one of the reasons I occasionally (like yesterday) post history channels I rather like, especially smaller ones. They'll never get huge engagement because they're posting bullshit about Septimius Severus being a black Roman emperor and driving rage clicks.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,311

    Reform have a basic problem - all their visible leaders are Tories, most of their most vocal cheerleaders are racist morons, and many of their policies do egregious harm to the voters they are targeting.

    They have persuaded people in Jaywick and beyond that all their problems are forrin, and simply Send Them Back and their community will be a bustling paradise again.

    As we now get more elected fukers doing actual governing we see the truth - slash and burn to your services. Which will erode their voter coalition anyway. I've said before I'll say it again - they will lose people to the right. Once you weaponise ignorant racism you can always be outmanoeuvred to the right. The Tories keep going absurdly dog whistle racist and get nowhere as Reform are beyond them. Next will be Reform, outflanked and out-gobbed by Tommy Ten-Names and Advance UK.

    IN re erosion, the media were interviewing at least one Reform voter shocked and unhappy that Lancs Reform were proposing to throw their aged parent out on the street, back to their nonexistent homes, etc. by closing old folks' homes to save money. (I thought there was some statutory duty there ...?)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/05/lancashires-reform-run-council-plans-to-close-care-homes-to-save-4m-a-year
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,584

    The biggest issue Reform has is they won't have the competence, work ethic, guile or teamwork to put their programme into effect.

    My guess is they'd be like the ERG on acid - they would spend all their time pissing, with minor scandals, and be spectacularly ineffective.

    Jenrick, on the other hand, with Katie Lam would probably get quite a bit done.

    Katie Lam is busy working on a new version of the grandfather paradox where she travels back in time to stop her grandfather being allowed into the UK as a child refugee, thus preventing herself ever being born.
    Yawn.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,311

    I never like talking on the phone. But a cold call at 8am is especially irritating.

    But probably unusually effective in getting you to pick up as "Who is calling me at this time. Is there some family problem I need to be aware of?" gets you answering. Cynical, but effective.
    Effective in getting me to answer. But I wasn't exactly well-disposed to the caller. I wasn't rude, but I was fairly... straightforward.
    And that's why we love you. But it would surprise me if it worked well at a statistical level.

    (Most of the terrible things about modern life happen because they work on enough people for them to be worth doing.)
    Like the way so many phishing and begging emails seem to be targeted at people who are not all there mentally, either originally or especially through old age. That you and I - at the moment - reject them instantly is neither here nor there.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,584
    Sean_F said:

    My take from Caerphilly and Runcorn is that voters on the Right will vote overwhelmingly for Reform, if they are best placed to win; and voters on the Left will vote overwhelmingly for the left wing party that is best placed to stop them.

    At least in by-election conditions.

    Yes, so it polarises.

    My guess is Reform don't have quite enough in the tank to get to an overall majority under GE conditions.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,590
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    I do have to giggle about the EV per mile exclusive. In the Telegraph - which is the first sign that it isn’t true because so little they print as “news” is.

    Comedy - it’s pay per mile. But no monitoring. Honest motorists will fill in EV bureaucrat paperwork each year and self declare how many miles they have driven.

    What do Telegraph owners hate? Government bureaucrats and EVs. So of course they have magically conflated the two.

    As you are around - have you seen Tesla's (lack of sales) in October

    So the SMMT have published sales figures for October

    Battery EV sales rose 24% compared to October 2024

    TESLA however sold only 511 cars compared to 971 cars in October 2024 - that’s a 47% drop

    So the new models were a very temporary boost and the reality is that a Tesla car is not something people seem to want.
    Tesla sales in the first month of any given quarter are always shit. They deliver very few vehicles - never have. Which is why you need to look at the quarter
    IIRC Tesla charters ships to deliver their cars from US to UK, so they arrive in batches of 5,000 rather than steadily as with most other manufacturers who rent space on existing shipping routes.
    A slight "yes, but". About 2/3 of Tesla European sales are made in Berlin (Model Ys). YTD (Aug/Sept) approx sales figures:

    Year-to-date (Jan-Sep) sales for the Model Y are 109,793, while the Model 3 has sold 49,524 units from Jan-Aug 2025.

    That's enough for roughly one Model 3 transport from the USA every month at 5000 per.

    (As an aside, that's not a lot to my eye for a place the size of their Berlin factory.)

    As an aside, I take the flappage from the Telegraph yesterday as an attempt to create frightening narratives to wind up their Captain Mainwaring in his shed in Tunbridge Wells (it may be a posh shed).
    Ah, I hadn't realised it was the Telegraph.
    At this point, I need to scuttle away and make sure it *was* the Telegraph, to make sure I do not get hoist by my own petard.

    (Checks: yes, according to Rochdale, it was:

    @RochdalePioneers said:
    I do have to giggle about the EV per mile exclusive. In the Telegraph - which is the first sign that it isn’t true because so little they print as “news” is.

    Comedy - it’s pay per mile. But no monitoring. Honest motorists will fill in EV bureaucrat paperwork each year and self declare how many miles they have driven.

    What do Telegraph owners hate? Government bureaucrats and EVs. So of course they have magically conflated the two.
    )
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