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Reform voters are going to hell – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,750
edited October 23 in General
Reform voters are going to hell – politicalbetting.com

Some people complain there’s too much polling in this life, but what is voting intention in the after life? Reform leads among both those who think they’d go to heaven & those who think they’d go to hell. Though their lead grows from 6 to 20 among (self selected) denizens of hell

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,875
    edited October 23
    First.
    Oh, and you are going to be reborn in Samsara unless you attain enlightenment.
    Regardless of how you vote or how much you earn.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,996
    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,904
    dixiedean said:

    First.

    In heaven or hell?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,875
    Foss said:

    dixiedean said:

    First.

    In heaven or hell?
    See edit above.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,360
    We don't seriously think "Heaven" and "Hell" actually exist, do we?
  • This is the official "smashing the gangs" list of achievements, actually published by the government yesterday


  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,506

    This is the official "smashing the gangs" list of achievements, actually published by the government yesterday


    Can the Go Home vans be far behind?
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,904

    This is the official "smashing the gangs" list of achievements, actually published by the government yesterday


    Looks like a dodgy escape room prop.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,311
    Sorry to be a bore, but I wonder if the main thing here is some sort of age split- "older" being a common cause of both heaven/hell beliefs and RefCon VI.

    Though the really interesting figure there is the way that Reform voters are 3 times more likely to think that they are going to the Bad Place as Conservative voters. A consequence of ghastly centrists telling them what awful people they are all the time? A world-weary cynicism that anything can ever get better?
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 251

    This is the official "smashing the gangs" list of achievements, actually published by the government yesterday


    Appalling, it's HM Government.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,465
    edited October 23
    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,755
    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    A camel *can* pass through the eye of a needle if it pays its taxes? That's not in the King James.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,335
    edited October 23

    We don't seriously think "Heaven" and "Hell" actually exist, do we?

    I wrote an entire article in which I took it extremely seriously, young Sunil

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/11/29/hell/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,392
    edited October 23

    Sorry to be a bore, but I wonder if the main thing here is some sort of age split- "older" being a common cause of both heaven/hell beliefs and RefCon VI.

    Though the really interesting figure there is the way that Reform voters are 3 times more likely to think that they are going to the Bad Place as Conservative voters. A consequence of ghastly centrists telling them what awful people they are all the time? A world-weary cynicism that anything can ever get better?

    Maybe. But the whole Turning Point/Patriot movement is predicated on nationalism and, crucially, religion. And the demographic there is 18-25 yr olds.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,755

    Sorry to be a bore, but I wonder if the main thing here is some sort of age split- "older" being a common cause of both heaven/hell beliefs and RefCon VI.

    Though the really interesting figure there is the way that Reform voters are 3 times more likely to think that they are going to the Bad Place as Conservative voters. A consequence of ghastly centrists telling them what awful people they are all the time? A world-weary cynicism that anything can ever get better?

    Admirable self-awareness, I'd say.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,335
    Nigelb said:

    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.

    What is "IOW" in this context?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,614
    edited October 23
    Rich people believe in just world hypothesis, that their success comes from their merits. Thus, obviously, their success proves they're good and will go to heaven.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,089

    This is the official "smashing the gangs" list of achievements, actually published by the government yesterday


    Appalling, it's HM Government.
    The target audience won't know what that means. They haven't done their UK Citizenship reading, mock exams and actual test.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,614
    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,857
    Nigelb said:

    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.

    Oh God... ramping up defence spending on obsolete technology sounds just about right for our political system.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,465
    "Trump is doing absolutely awful in the minds of the American people. We're talking about new lows. CNBC, -13 net approval on the economy. It's -19 among Quinnipiac ... Trump is at his lowest point ever in either of his terms. He's not just beating himself with record lows -- this is the lowest for any president ever at this point in either a presidency or for a second term."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1981381039185449420

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,360
    viewcode said:

    We don't seriously think "Heaven" and "Hell" actually exist, do we?

    I wrote an entire article in which I took it extremely seriously, young Sunil

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2024/11/29/hell/
    But why? They don't exist, young viewcode!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,465
    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.

    What is "IOW" in this context?
    In other words.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,335
    Nigelb said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.

    What is "IOW" in this context?
    In other words.
    Thank you
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,500

    Sorry to be a bore, but I wonder if the main thing here is some sort of age split- "older" being a common cause of both heaven/hell beliefs and RefCon VI.

    Though the really interesting figure there is the way that Reform voters are 3 times more likely to think that they are going to the Bad Place as Conservative voters. A consequence of ghastly centrists telling them what awful people they are all the time? A world-weary cynicism that anything can ever get better?

    I wonder if thinking you're going to hell is just a substitute for hating yourself?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,465
    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.

    Oh God... ramping up defence spending on obsolete technology sounds just about right for our political system.
    The recent defence review needs a very large revision.
    Quite a bit of it still applies; some really doesn't.

    We should probably reassess our long range stuff, both artillery and missiles, too.

    There's a lot of detail in Watling's piece, some of it only relevant to Ukraine, but the broad outlines have a lot of grim logic to them.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,102

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.

    What is "IOW" in this context?
    The Isle of Wight. He's saying the Isle of Wight should be curtailed as soon as possible. Who can argue with that?
    Which bit would you chop off? The further away from the rest of England the IoW gets, the nicer it gets. If only there was a bit more land Ventnor could be the gateway to paradise.
  • I am meant to be flying next week (not to America) but I expect to be caught up in the resulting shit show.

    Top Republicans warned that air-traffic controllers would miss their paychecks next week due to the government shutdown, saying there would be no last-minute reprieve

    https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/air-traffic-controllers-paychecks-government-shutdown-e94ffa5c?mod=e2tw
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,683
    Spending eternity having to make smalltalk with random distant relatives.

    Heaven would be absolute hell.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,102

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    He didn't say Trump was the one and only future King, but I suspect if I posted that under my own name lawsuits might arrive.

    (PS Evening all)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,614
    Omnium said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.

    What is "IOW" in this context?
    The Isle of Wight. He's saying the Isle of Wight should be curtailed as soon as possible. Who can argue with that?
    Which bit would you chop off? The further away from the rest of England the IoW gets, the nicer it gets. If only there was a bit more land Ventnor could be the gateway to paradise.
    We need to replace the Isle of Wight with something with more manoeuvrability. It's very static.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,500

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    Rowan Atkinson said it best:

    https://youtu.be/qB0ZOu_EZ2M?si=7xYkhKKgTPxmXTZw&t=164
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,457
    edited October 23
    Conservative MPs have complained to party whips after Katie Lam said many legally settled people should be deported to make the UK “culturally coherent”, the Guardian has learned.

    Lam, who is seen as a rising Tory star, said last weekend she believed “a large number of people” living legally in the UK should have their right to stay revoked and “go home”. “What that will leave is a mostly but not entirely culturally coherent group of people,” she told the Sunday Times.

    Her remarks have triggered alarm among Tory MPs. “If we are using phrases like that, we need to explain what they mean,” one said. “‘Culturally coherent’: it’s either dog-whistle or it’s so vague it’s meaningless.

    “‘Go home’ is a chant used by people who are bigoted or racist – so we have to be very careful when using phrases like ‘go home’, when talking in particular about legal migration. Politicians, especially ones who aspire to be in leadership frontline roles, should use language that is appropriate.”

    A senior Tory said: “All this time Lam has been seen as number two to Robert Jenrick. That seems to have shifted post-conference where it looks like she’s now trying to take his spot on the hard right of the party. In trying to do so she has upset a lot of colleagues.

    “This is what happens when you are new to the party and don’t really understand what it is about. There is a line but she has gone so far past it, it is just a dot to her.”

    Keir Starmer vehemently condemned Lam’s comments on Thursday, saying: “I can’t tell you how much I disagree with her.”


    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/23/conservatives-complain-to-whips-about-fellow-mps-comments-on-legally-settled-people
  • This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,683
    These high earners are going to be disappointed when they discover there isn't an executive lounge.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,362
    What type of needle was Jesus referring to? 4:23:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB3eSud1_Cs
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,996
    edited October 23

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
    Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    "I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings." Luke 16 9
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,791

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    Across the centuries, the belief endures that if you do well in life, it’s because God approves of you.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,362

    Keir Starmer vehemently condemned Lam’s comments on Thursday, saying: “I can’t tell you how much I disagree with her.”

    He could get a job as a football pundit with words like that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,465

    rkrkrk said:

    Nigelb said:

    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.

    Oh God... ramping up defence spending on obsolete technology sounds just about right for our political system.
    We shouldn't buy anything for ourselves until the Ukraine war is over. The technology turnover is too high! Buy stuff and give it to the Ukrainians to test.
    There's a lot of stuff (ammo for artillery and mortars) with relatively low tech turnover. Building production capacity there would be a good investment for both us and Ukraine.

    Missiles, ditto.

    Also the long lead stuff (next gen aircraft) needs funding now.

    It's some of the big ticket items of dubious utility (Challenger and Ajax are excellent examples, as are, arguably, some large surface ships) that need very close scrutiny.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,602

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    As I've said multiple times it should have been 3p on basic rate to compensate for the 4p NI cuts last year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,996
    edited October 23

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    If Reeves and Starmer want to commit political suicide and fall behind even the Tories and LDs let alone Reform they will increase the basic rate of income tax. They may even fall behind the Greens as well as Polanski is promising to tax the rich more not the average voter.

    More likely is increasing the additional rate for the highest earners back to 50p in the pound if earn over £125k
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,102

    Omnium said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Absolutely fascinating long read RUSI article which has major implication for UK defence procurement.

    Apart from the enormously expanded role of all kinds of drones (which will be essential on any conceivable battlefield), the use and utility of armour has been greatly reduced.

    And the new systems which the UK is procuring are particularly unsuited to the new warfare.
    Speed and manoeuvrability (and recoverability, repairability and ease of maintenance), are now far more important than better armour or increased firepower.

    IOW, Challenger 3 and Ajax should probably be curtailed as soon as possible, and the funding put into more effective systems.

    Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine
    https://www.rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/insights-papers/emergent-approaches-combined-arms-manoeuvre-ukraine

    It will also mean completely retraining our army.

    What is "IOW" in this context?
    The Isle of Wight. He's saying the Isle of Wight should be curtailed as soon as possible. Who can argue with that?
    Which bit would you chop off? The further away from the rest of England the IoW gets, the nicer it gets. If only there was a bit more land Ventnor could be the gateway to paradise.
    We need to replace the Isle of Wight with something with more manoeuvrability. It's very static.
    The local council has asked them to pedal harder, but it seems His Majesty's great island will be stuck in the Solent for years to come. The good news is that unlike the Brownian aircraft carriers its unlikely to be sunk.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,327
    eek said:

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    As I've said multiple times it should have been 3p on basic rate to compensate for the 4p NI cuts last year.
    I agree, but shades of George H W Bush is not a good look.

    This pitch should have been rolled for months. Reeves and Starmer are utterly useless.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,261
    edited October 23

    What a day. Banned. Unbanned. Just waiting for my free holiday.

    PB's finest banned?

    Was AI having a joke?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,641
    Has Zia Yusuf resigned again?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,261
    Scott_xP said:

    Has Zia Yusuf resigned again?

    I hope so
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,683
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
    Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    "I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings." Luke 16 9
    So God appointed Rachel Reeves as Chancellor, she taxes the rich until the pips squeak, and the not-so-rich can then be allowed upstairs.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,641
    Leavitt accidentally tells the truth

    https://bsky.app/profile/atrupar.com/post/3m3uwoemyzh2i
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,102

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
    Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    "I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings." Luke 16 9
    So God appointed Rachel Reeves as Chancellor, she taxes the rich until the pips squeak, and the not-so-rich can then be allowed upstairs.

    It would have hit sales quite significantly if the Bible had been more specific about our Labour government.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,089
    edited October 23
    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    Across the centuries, the belief endures that if you do well in life, it’s because God approves of you.
    Interestingly, there's a strong element of Scots Presbyterianism, certainly in the old days, which is the other way round: God approves if you work hard and don't waste your time. Doesn't mean you will actually do well and be rich, but it didn't do any harm. And even then plenty of poor men were to be found on kirk sessions and seen as highly respectable. Much of Samuel Smiles' biographical work follows this approach, albeit at the risk of seeming like poverty porn to the modern eye.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,688
    Scott_xP said:
    Surely that's not the truth? Embezzling money from the government would have higher priority, no?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,327

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    Won't all you top earners just up sticks and move to Laguna Beach?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,261

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    Miriam Edelson could cover it herself and still have 10 billion to spare
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,996
    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    Across the centuries, the belief endures that if you do well in life, it’s because God approves of you.
    Interestingly, there's a strong element of Scots Presbyterianism, certainly in the old days, which is the other way round: God approves if you work hard and don't waste your time. Doesn't mean you will actually do well and be rich, but it didn't do any harm. And even then plenty of poor men were to be found on kirk sessions and seen as highly respectable. Much of Samuel Smiles' biographical work follows this approach, albeit at the risk of seeming like poverty porn to the modern eye.
    Roman Catholicism has always seen a dignity in poverty, hence nuns and monks give up all their worldly possessions for a life of prayer, growing vegetables and charity and education
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,216
    Interesting fact: the Plaid Cymru candidate in Caerphilly has been their candidate at every Westminster election since and including 1983, with the sole exception of 2015.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,996

    eek said:

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    As I've said multiple times it should have been 3p on basic rate to compensate for the 4p NI cuts last year.
    I agree, but shades of George H W Bush is not a good look.

    This pitch should have been rolled for months. Reeves and Starmer are utterly useless.
    And Bush only did that as the Democrats controlled Congress and demanded it to pass a Budget.

    Reeves and Starmer have a comfortable Labour majority in Parliament by contrast
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,216

    We don't seriously think "Heaven" and "Hell" actually exist, do we?

    Of course not. Do they exist in Hinduism?
  • CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    Rowan Atkinson said it best:

    https://youtu.be/qB0ZOu_EZ2M?si=7xYkhKKgTPxmXTZw&t=164
    I prefer this comparison between heaven and hell, also by Rowan Atkinson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d85DsKjvU8
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,507

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    Wasn't there a poll out a few days ago that showed that the people Labour are still doing ok with were rich people?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,239
    In hell it's just endless opinion polls where no-one else agrees with you.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 251

    In hell it's just endless opinion polls where no-one else agrees with you.

    I knew something wasn't quite right!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,507
    edited October 23
    Marr: I thought Labour would fix everything. I was wrong
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jA3PLbBYM

    Starmer has to go bandwagon getting going again.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,311

    In hell it's just endless opinion polls where no-one else agrees with you.

    I'm sure His Satanic Majesty can do better than that.

    Imagine an endless cycle of "Your Man Is Crap But Will Be PM" midterm polls followed by inevitable swingback against you, forever...


    ... Remind me, what bad thing did we do in a previous life?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,996
    edited October 23

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    Wasn't there a poll out a few days ago that showed that the people Labour are still doing ok with were rich people?
    More Middle class ABC1s though yes rich people overall prefer Starmer to Reform. If Starmer and Reeves start taxing them more though rich people will go back to Tory or LD in wealthy seats in west London and the South East for example and like Altrincham and Rushcliffe Labour won for the first time last year.

    Some might even go Reform if they like low immigration with their low taxes
  • Andy_JS said:

    We don't seriously think "Heaven" and "Hell" actually exist, do we?

    Of course not. Do they exist in Hinduism?
    They even have Pitriloka, where the souls of three preceding generations of one's ancestors reside, a realm between heaven and earth

    And that's just one of eight worlds that make up the universe
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,688

    Marr: I thought Labour would fix everything. I was wrong
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jA3PLbBYM

    I thought Labour would not be so epically awful as the Tories had become.

    Jury is out on that.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,239

    In hell it's just endless opinion polls where no-one else agrees with you.

    I'm sure His Satanic Majesty can do better than that.

    Imagine an endless cycle of "Your Man Is Crap But Will Be PM" midterm polls followed by inevitable swingback against you, forever...


    ... Remind me, what bad thing did we do in a previous life?
    ...and you're convinced the methodology is bollocks but no-one else can see why.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,183
    I'm astonished that so many people actually have a decided view on the matter, although I'm glad to see the Don't Knows are a sizeable chuck of every party.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,755

    Marr: I thought Labour would fix everything. I was wrong
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jA3PLbBYM

    Starmer has to go bandwagon getting going again.

    He thought Labour would fix everything? Bizarre. I certainly didn't and I'm a party member.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,507
    edited October 23
    kinabalu said:

    Marr: I thought Labour would fix everything. I was wrong
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jA3PLbBYM

    Starmer has to go bandwagon getting going again.

    He thought Labour would fix everything? Bizarre. I certainly didn't and I'm a party member.
    That's the clickbait headline, its more he isn't doing very well, things aren't getting better, I don't think he can do it. Marr wants radical change he doesn't think Starmer can ever deliver that, at best it will be tiny wins.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,183

    Marr: I thought Labour would fix everything. I was wrong
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jA3PLbBYM

    Starmer has to go bandwagon getting going again.

    I had a great respect for Andrew Marr when he used to write for The Economist. Not so much, since then. But I'd have expected he would have enough contacts inside the Labour party to know there wasn't any plan for government, in which case he wouldn't have expected them to fix everything.

    Unless he was another who thought just being Labour was the silver bullet.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,392
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    "Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”
    Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

    "I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings." Luke 16 9
    "Worldly wealth to gain friends"?

    That is behaviour that attracts the greatest amount of opprobrium these days isn't it?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,791
    edited October 23

    CatMan said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    Rowan Atkinson said it best:

    https://youtu.be/qB0ZOu_EZ2M?si=7xYkhKKgTPxmXTZw&t=164
    I prefer this comparison between heaven and hell, also by Rowan Atkinson: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8d85DsKjvU8
    He wasn’t lying, either. Hell is for those who enjoy adultery, torture, pillage.

    IIRC, this lord had repeatedly committed adultery with his own mother.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,904

    Marr: I thought Labour would fix everything. I was wrong
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jA3PLbBYM

    Starmer has to go bandwagon getting going again.

    There's only seven or so weeks before the Christmas wind down kills any momentum that might have for this year. The new year otoh...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,522
    The more interesting proposal from the Guardian was the cut in NI and increase in income tax .

    Politically it might be better to do that as you broke your manifesto commitments but then gave a surprise NI cut .

    I still think this is kite flying and Reeves will cobble together other hikes that won’t break the manifesto pledge ,
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,800
    eek said:

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    As I've said multiple times it should have been 3p on basic rate to compensate for the 4p NI cuts last year.
    As an Australia Denier* I can deny some pretty big things. But denying Fiscal Drag by not moving the tax bands….

    *a bunch of convicts formed a social democracy. With a mammal that lays eggs, has a ducks bill and poisoned thumbs as a national mascot. Black fucking swans???!!!?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,545
    Brian Allen
    @allenanalysis
    Mark Carney just said the quiet part out loud.

    Canada’s decades-long economic reliance on the United States is now a vulnerability; not a strength. The so-called partnership that once fueled growth has turned into a leash.

    Carney’s message wasn’t subtle: America’s instability is now a national risk. Canada needs to insulate itself, trade beyond its shadow, and rebuild a system that doesn’t collapse every time Washington elects chaos.

    For the first time in decades, Ottawa isn’t just hedging, it’s preparing to stand alone.

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/1981337482768576591
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,287

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    Should’ve done it instead of NI last year.

    I can’t see them doing it, myself. They will continue to try and raise the revenue through all these creative wheezes that have all sorts of bad knock-on effects and concentrate opposition, but that allow them to stand by their silly pledge.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,545


    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian

    BREAKING: Nancy Pelosi says local authorities may arrest federal agents if they break California law, and if they are convicted, President Trump cannot pardon them.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,531

    This government hates people like me.

    Reeves considers breaking manifesto pledge with income tax rise to fill £30bn gap

    Exclusive: Treasury discussions include possibly adding 1p to basic rate or raising higher or additional tax rates


    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2025/oct/23/rachel-reeves-is-considering-raising-income-tax-to-reduce-deficit-sources-say

    Should’ve done it instead of NI last year.

    I can’t see them doing it, myself. They will continue to try and raise the revenue through all these creative wheezes that have all sorts of bad knock-on effects and concentrate opposition, but that allow them to stand by their silly pledge.
    I love all the clever work-arounds by the treasury/chancellors which endlessly compound into a more and more perverse, complex and overall expensive system. But ✅ Pledge Kept!

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,078



    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian

    BREAKING: Nancy Pelosi says local authorities may arrest federal agents if they break California law, and if they are convicted, President Trump cannot pardon them.

    Civil war incoming.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 1,191
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    Sean_F said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reform voters lead amongst those thinking they are going to heaven and hell. LDs and Greens think they are clearly going to hell, Tory and Labour voters to heaven, interesting.

    Voters at all incomes think they are mainly going to heaven, albeit middle income earners less sure. For Christians it is love of money not hard earned money and savings that is the problem, as long as you support charities, pay your taxes and help the poor even the rich can get to heaven

    Jesus didn't say the rich man who helps the poor isn't like the camel going through the eye of the needle...
    Across the centuries, the belief endures that if you do well in life, it’s because God approves of you.
    Interestingly, there's a strong element of Scots Presbyterianism, certainly in the old days, which is the other way round: God approves if you work hard and don't waste your time. Doesn't mean you will actually do well and be rich, but it didn't do any harm. And even then plenty of poor men were to be found on kirk sessions and seen as highly respectable. Much of Samuel Smiles' biographical work follows this approach, albeit at the risk of seeming like poverty porn to the modern eye.
    Roman Catholicism has always seen a dignity in poverty, hence nuns and monks give up all their worldly possessions for a life of prayer, growing vegetables and charity and education
    A dignity in individual poverty maybe. It's historically been less keen on institutional poverty. Including the orders those monks and nuns belonged to.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,545
    Bannon comes v close to revealing how they plan to ensure that Trump can run in 2028 for third term in this clip.

    They have a plan, it will be revealed nearer the time he says but it involves contesting the meaning of the wording of the amendment's "terms". So presumably SCOTUS will be asked to rule on things like whether it meant consecutive or what "elected" means.




    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    Steve Bannon: “Well he’s gonna get a third term.

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1981432900273807392
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,531

    Brian Allen
    @allenanalysis
    Mark Carney just said the quiet part out loud.

    Canada’s decades-long economic reliance on the United States is now a vulnerability; not a strength. The so-called partnership that once fueled growth has turned into a leash.

    Carney’s message wasn’t subtle: America’s instability is now a national risk. Canada needs to insulate itself, trade beyond its shadow, and rebuild a system that doesn’t collapse every time Washington elects chaos.

    For the first time in decades, Ottawa isn’t just hedging, it’s preparing to stand alone.

    https://x.com/allenanalysis/status/1981337482768576591

    That's pretty blunt - especially from a Canadian.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,531
    Foss said:

    Marr: I thought Labour would fix everything. I was wrong
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jA3PLbBYM

    Starmer has to go bandwagon getting going again.

    There's only seven or so weeks before the Christmas wind down kills any momentum that might have for this year. The new year otoh...
    My christmas wind-down has already started. Nose-dive might be closer to the mark.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,980

    Bannon comes v close to revealing how they plan to ensure that Trump can run in 2028 for third term in this clip.

    They have a plan, it will be revealed nearer the time he says but it involves contesting the meaning of the wording of the amendment's "terms". So presumably SCOTUS will be asked to rule on things like whether it meant consecutive or what "elected" means.

    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    Steve Bannon: “Well he’s gonna get a third term.

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1981432900273807392

    Even if the legal arguments are complete pie in the sky that won’t get through even Trump’s stacked Supreme Court, the current government needs Republicans in Congress to think that there’s a possibility that he might be able to stand again in order to maintain party discipline behind Trump.

    Otherwise, once the midterms are done with, there’s a strong chance that they run for the proverbial hills & repudiate Trump knowing that nobody who follows him will be able to whip up the MAGA vote in the way that Trump can against them.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,287

    Bannon comes v close to revealing how they plan to ensure that Trump can run in 2028 for third term in this clip.

    They have a plan, it will be revealed nearer the time he says but it involves contesting the meaning of the wording of the amendment's "terms". So presumably SCOTUS will be asked to rule on things like whether it meant consecutive or what "elected" means.




    Spencer Hakimian
    @SpencerHakimian
    Steve Bannon: “Well he’s gonna get a third term.

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1981432900273807392

    Still dont think SCOTUS are so blatant as to override what is pretty clear language.

    That doesnt mean that Trump won’t try to retain power in some way. Through a proxy seems to be most likely to me. Or he could try to run as VP and argue the constitution allows him to succeed to the presidency on a vacancy, which is less clearly prohibited.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,465

    Marr: I thought Labour would fix everything. I was wrong
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7jA3PLbBYM

    Starmer has to go bandwagon getting going again.

    Marr was an idiot if he thought they'd "fix everything".

    I'd have settled for moderately competent stab at making a start to address our problems.

    That is a couple of decades' project.
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