I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.
If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!
As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government
I do not want Reform in power anywhere
You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
The last time I voted Plaid in the Senedd they tried to nail together a rainbow coalition including UKIP and the Tories so I am not inclined their direction. However, if it's them or Reform next May, needs must.
Labour, LD and Green voters need to vote Plaid this time out.
I thought one of the main reasons to bring in a wholly PR system (as bad a version as it is) is that tactical voting is not longer needed, but fair enough.
I'd go through pretty much every other party before putting my X next to the nationalists, of whatever flavour. But I now live in Fulham, so not my decision anymore haha
More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.
You can revert back to the old design, but only if you answer a question about why you prefer the old one. "The new design is shite" did the trick for me.
The questionnaire that they offer as an alternative is actually geared to saying how much one loves it. E.g. there is a choice o a dozen or so descriptor words. Only two are at all negative - the rest are positive. Not allowed to write in 'shite', either. And it's very difficult to make a freehand comment too without effectively being made to say "I lurve the new design because it's shite".
#even grumpier
That's weird. Mine just asked my why I wanted to revert, gave three options one of which was 'prefer the old design' which I checked, and then insisted I type a freehand comment. Which I did.
More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.
It looks like the redesign is intended to present a summary of the information first, to avoid information overload, and you can find more detail on something in particular if you want it. The intent is try to help users - whereas enshittification is purposely making something worse for users to increase profit.
And it's only blue when the weather is. When the forecast is for rain the background changes - giving an immediate visual indication of the weather. I quite like that.
Anyway, real weather nerds have a script that downloads the forecast data directly from the Met Office, so they can create your own charts. Which reminds me, I have to sort out the migration before they turn off DataPoint..
Hmm, I think it would be still more appropriate to make it brown. Permanently.
I can actually look out of the window to see what it is doing now - and it's not blue either.
The real issue is whether they will turn off the old style completely. It had a decent balance of weather now - you look at the bit in the top left - and in the future - the eye trails along.
I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.
If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!
As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government
I do not want Reform in power anywhere
You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
The last time I voted Plaid in the Senedd they tried to nail together a rainbow coalition including UKIP and the Tories so I am not inclined their direction. However, if it's them or Reform next May, needs must.
Labour, LD and Green voters need to vote Plaid this time out.
When was that?
2007 we had the rainbow coalition with the Lib Dems, that failed because the Lib Dems couldn't muster a majority for it.
Was it that far back? It was everyone but Labour, which is fine but I'll draw the line at UKIP and the Tories. I thought it was later when all those disgraced Tories had joined UKIP. I may have got my dates in a muddle, but PC were definitely in the mix.
Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE. Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife. So. A GP can't but a teacher can?
To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE. Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife. So. A GP can't but a teacher can?
To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE. Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife. So. A GP can't but a teacher can?
To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
training teachers to spot various things for referral is sensible.
At my youngest daughters private school, all the teachers did a course on the issues like ADHD, autism…. How to spot signs, suggest getting a professional opinion etc.
The word private explains that. How long was the course? Who delivered it?
I remember inset days at my private school with visiting specialists about SEND etc. my school bought in to the county for the course.
Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE. Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife. So. A GP can't but a teacher can?
To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE. Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife. So. A GP can't but a teacher can?
To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE. Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife. So. A GP can't but a teacher can?
To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
training teachers to spot various things for referral is sensible.
At my youngest daughters private school, all the teachers did a course on the issues like ADHD, autism…. How to spot signs, suggest getting a professional opinion etc.
The word private explains that. How long was the course? Who delivered it?
Dunno who did it
The slide pack was interesting. There was a diagnostic tree in the notes as well
More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.
You can revert back to the old design, but only if you answer a question about why you prefer the old one. "The new design is shite" did the trick for me.
The questionnaire that they offer as an alternative is actually geared to saying how much one loves it. E.g. there is a choice o a dozen or so descriptor words. Only two are at all negative - the rest are positive. Not allowed to write in 'shite', either. And it's very difficult to make a freehand comment too without effectively being made to say "I lurve the new design because it's shite".
#even grumpier
That's weird. Mine just asked my why I wanted to revert, gave three options one of which was 'prefer the old design' which I checked, and then insisted I type a freehand comment. Which I did.
FAFO seems to be the desaign principle. The first time for me was as you say, but when I monkeyed about a bit I got the questionnaire option.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Well at the last locals my choice was Reform or Indy and I went Indy as I didn’t want a Reform councillor and the big twit joined Reform !!
Before he joined Reform he was active on social media, doing stuff for the ward and being generally helpful
Now you never hear from him. Dont even see him dog walking anymore.
I bet that didn't stop him dog whistling.
At least he wasn’t dogging.
As an aside he’s certainly no bigot. When Syrian families were moved in to the estate he organised for people to go and welcome them and help decorate their homes and donate any unwanted appliances.
I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.
If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!
As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government
I do not want Reform in power anywhere
You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
The last time I voted Plaid in the Senedd they tried to nail together a rainbow coalition including UKIP and the Tories so I am not inclined their direction. However, if it's them or Reform next May, needs must.
Labour, LD and Green voters need to vote Plaid this time out.
When was that?
2007 we had the rainbow coalition with the Lib Dems, that failed because the Lib Dems couldn't muster a majority for it.
Was it that far back? It was everyone but Labour, which is fine but I'll draw the line at UKIP and the Tories. I thought it was later when all those disgraced Tories had joined UKIP. I may have got my dates in a muddle, but PC were definitely in the mix.
I don't recall Plaid ever offering a coalition with UKIP, although that's not conclusive. It would have had to be around 2015-2016. But the 'rainbow coalition' was an everyone but Labour job in 2007.
When the Yellows walked out, Plaid jumped into bed with Labour instead and their credibility as an opposition party has never quite recovered.
Edit - you might be thinking of 2016, when UKIP and the Tories voted for Leanne Wood as First Minister to annoy Carwyn Jones and prevent him from getting a majority coalition together?
I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.
If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!
As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government
I do not want Reform in power anywhere
You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
The last time I voted Plaid in the Senedd they tried to nail together a rainbow coalition including UKIP and the Tories so I am not inclined their direction. However, if it's them or Reform next May, needs must.
Labour, LD and Green voters need to vote Plaid this time out.
I thought one of the main reasons to bring in a wholly PR system (as bad a version as it is) is that tactical voting is not longer needed, but fair enough.
I'd go through pretty much every other party before putting my X next to the nationalists, of whatever flavour. But I now live in Fulham, so not my decision anymore haha
I keep forgetting they have changed the voting system again.
Well at the last locals my choice was Reform or Indy and I went Indy as I didn’t want a Reform councillor and the big twit joined Reform !!
Before he joined Reform he was active on social media, doing stuff for the ward and being generally helpful
Now you never hear from him. Dont even see him dog walking anymore.
I bet that didn't stop him dog whistling.
At least he wasn’t dogging.
As an aside he’s certainly no bigot. When Syrian families were moved in to the estate he organised for people to go and welcome them and help decorate their homes and donate any unwanted appliances.
I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.
If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!
As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government
I do not want Reform in power anywhere
You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
The last time I voted Plaid in the Senedd they tried to nail together a rainbow coalition including UKIP and the Tories so I am not inclined their direction. However, if it's them or Reform next May, needs must.
Labour, LD and Green voters need to vote Plaid this time out.
When was that?
2007 we had the rainbow coalition with the Lib Dems, that failed because the Lib Dems couldn't muster a majority for it.
Was it that far back? It was everyone but Labour, which is fine but I'll draw the line at UKIP and the Tories. I thought it was later when all those disgraced Tories had joined UKIP. I may have got my dates in a muddle, but PC were definitely in the mix.
I don't recall Plaid ever offering a coalition with UKIP, although that's not conclusive. It would have had to be around 2015-2016. But the 'rainbow coalition' was an everyone but Labour job in 2007.
When the Yellows walked out, Plaid jumped into bed with Labour instead and their credibility as an opposition party has never quite recovered.
Edit - you might be thinking of 2016, when UKIP and the Tories voted for Leanne Wood as First Minister to annoy Carwyn Jones and prevent him from getting a majority coalition together?
Am I just thinking Plaid plus the Tories? Tories but no UKIP? Same thing really.
More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.
It is a bloody awful revamp by The Met Office, too many symbols and too little information. As you posted later The Met Office are at the FAFO stage with the feedback.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.
It is a bloody awful revamp by The Met Office, too many symbols and too little information. As you posted later The Met Office are at the FAFO stage with the feedback.
LOstPassword's comments are interesting, and he has a point, but the MO should at the least offer a choice!
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
When you look at Trump, and some of his grisly crew, and his attitude to the law, it's difficult to imagine them voluntarily giving up power, or conceding an election defeat. After all, he didn't in 2020. Why would he now? Especially as he has learnt the lessons.
After all, this is a guy who was schooled by Roy Cohn.
It really is a grim and dark prospect, I'm afraid. The red lights are flashing.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say, true patriots would, of course, just take the hit.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine.
Whilst the British wealthy are more likely to stay the foreign wealthy don’t need to and those considering moving to the UK won’t come.
There is a line people have when they have a lot of money where they feel they are paying too much. It’s not right or wrong it’s just human.
These people aren’t using an excess of the national infrastructure because they are wealthier, they aren’t using more resources from the state in proportion to their tax contribution. if they used in proportion to their wealth then there is an argument to tax them more proportionately but generally they use less. Private education and healthcare being the clearest examples.
If the argument for taxing them more is that it will generate a higher long term tax rate and increase growth and new business then great. If it’s really about a gut envy, which sadly it often really is, then why cut off the country’s nose to spite its face.
So many people most exercised by the wealthy and their tax rates aren’t in any way affected by them. They aren’t being blocked from buying a “Knightsbridge Mansion” because a Swiss hedge fund manager is living there and if we tax him out then it becomes in their price range. People aren’t finding they can’t get served quickly enough because there are a load of super rich wives hogging the deli counter at Harrods. They aren’t pissed off because the waiting list for their new Ferrari is long so if we can tax the fuckers out we will get our new car quicker. I could understand it if there was a battle for resources but there isn’t that.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
Perhaps many of them are just citizens of nowhere looking to min/max their existence.
Exclusive: Two of Nathan Gill's fellow Ukip/Brexit Party MEPs used the same pro-Russia talking points in European Parliament, after joining him on a paid-for trip to Kyiv
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
That must be it. Fancy wanting to keep your own money and not give it to the govt to piss up the wall.
When you look at Trump, and some of his grisly crew, and his attitude to the law, it's difficult to imagine them voluntarily giving up power, or conceding an election defeat. After all, he didn't in 2020. Why would he now? Especially as he has learnt the lessons.
After all, this is a guy who was schooled by Roy Cohn.
It really is a grim and dark prospect, I'm afraid. The red lights are flashing.
He's been ramping up the 2020 rhetoric/lies a LOT, recently.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Well at the last locals my choice was Reform or Indy and I went Indy as I didn’t want a Reform councillor and the big twit joined Reform !!
Before he joined Reform he was active on social media, doing stuff for the ward and being generally helpful
Now you never hear from him. Dont even see him dog walking anymore.
I bet that didn't stop him dog whistling.
At least he wasn’t dogging.
As an aside he’s certainly no bigot. When Syrian families were moved in to the estate he organised for people to go and welcome them and help decorate their homes and donate any unwanted appliances.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks volatility in global share prices.
Mogg has apparently called for Tories to vote tactically for Reform in Caerphilly.
Hoping that the Tories lose their deposit to increase pressure on Kemi?
The story will not be about the conservatives tomorrow or Kemi
It will be all about Reform. It always is these days.
Your team's boy Mogg shilling for Reform may be a pointer for the future. I was never inclined to vote for the Tories, even less so now. I wouldn't touch your lot with theirs even if they had one.
Mogg is not my team and I was pleased he lost at GE24
Mind you, I am not a member of the conservative party anymore anyway
The question to ask, based on all the evidence to date, is why wouldn't he? Despite his polling woes the forces of opposition to the Cult are in for a battle royal.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
That must be it. Fancy wanting to keep your own money and not give it to the govt to piss up the wall.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Oh good. The trickle-down theory. It's been a while...
@alaynatreene Trump on Wednesday pardoned Binance co-founder Changpeng Zhao, who pleaded guilty to a money laundering charge in 2023, two sources familiar with the matter tell me, confirming WSJ
Leavitt said in a statement that Trump “exercised his constitutional authority by issuing a pardon for Mr. Zhao, who was prosecuted by the Biden Administration in their war on cryptocurrency.”
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks volatility in global share prices.
Also if we want to import the uber rich, we could simply pitch to a lot of the US ones who will be looking to leave for quite different reasons over the next decade.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Oh good. The trickle-down theory. It's been a while...
Which bit is incorrect? I only have the knowledge from working with and talking to these sorts of people over a nearly thirty year career so understanding their motivations and am regularly speaking to a good number who are in the process of leaving the UK but please correct me otherwise.
Former Labour justice minister Shahid Malik helped to set up a fraudulent Covid testing firm that made £6.6 million in just three weeks, a court has heard.
Malik, 57, is accused of establishing the 'cash cow' firm alongside a pharmacist, a registered scientist and his own former office manager.
The former MP for Dewsbury is one of five people on trial over the 'inadequate and non-compliant' RT Diagnostics, which prosecutors say made £6.67 million in three weeks but did not meet UK standards.
Malik, who was first elected in 2005 and served as a justice minister and communities minister in Gordon Brown's government before losing his seat in 2010, is accused of fraudulent trading, causing a public nuisance and money laundering.
I'm glad to see attempted enforcement against people from multiple parties.
It's a shame if Malik has done the crime, as as far as I can see his political record is commendable apart from one or two blots on the copybook (eg an expenses issue in 2009-10).
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks volatility in global share prices.
I work in private banking. It’s not a wealth tax as such - it’s that such people see the U.K. government as incompetent and unable to control costs
A number have already moved assets.
They assume that taxes will go up and services and the environment in general will decline.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Exclusive: Two of Nathan Gill's fellow Ukip/Brexit Party MEPs used the same pro-Russia talking points in European Parliament, after joining him on a paid-for trip to Kyiv
Exclusive: Two of Nathan Gill's fellow Ukip/Brexit Party MEPs used the same pro-Russia talking points in European Parliament, after joining him on a paid-for trip to Kyiv
I thought we already had it that Farage himself had done that. Has anyone checked what he said when working for Putin's TV Station (I have not seen anything).
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks volatility in global share prices.
I work in private banking. It’s not a wealth tax as such - it’s that such people see the U.K. government as incompetent and unable to control costs
A number have already moved assets.
They assume that taxes will go up and services and the environment in general will decline.
We have been incompetent and unable to control costs for a long time, what is the change they are seeing?
And the same incompetence and cost control effects the rest of the west as well. So Middle East will continue to grow and be attractive, sure, and it would regardless of what we do. I just dont see large numbers leaving for France, Germany, US etc.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Oh good. The trickle-down theory. It's been a while...
Which bit is incorrect? I only have the knowledge from working with and talking to these sorts of people over a nearly thirty year career so understanding their motivations and am regularly speaking to a good number who are in the process of leaving the UK but please correct me otherwise.
(To be fair, and with apologies for a slightly snarky opening comment: you are arguing the opposite, that tax increases will reduce investment in UK. This study (and others) highlights that reducing tax does not increase investment).
I'm thinking George Clooney and Brad Pitt with a guest star by Le Depardieu as the gang. Perhaps Rosamund Pike as the/a female member also.
I'd watch that.
Can George Clooney do funny ? This isn"t a rhetorical question, as I just haven't seen him often enough to know.
Perhaps Sacha Baron Cohen could do it, as a good physical and improvisational actor, who can also be quirky and off centre. Also a commonality of backgrounds, with Sellers also being partly Jewish. Steve Coogan is another possibility.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say, true patriots would, of course, just take the hit.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine.
Whilst the British wealthy are more likely to stay the foreign wealthy don’t need to and those considering moving to the UK won’t come.
There is a line people have when they have a lot of money where they feel they are paying too much. It’s not right or wrong it’s just human.
These people aren’t using an excess of the national infrastructure because they are wealthier, they aren’t using more resources from the state in proportion to their tax contribution. if they used in proportion to their wealth then there is an argument to tax them more proportionately but generally they use less. Private education and healthcare being the clearest examples.
If the argument for taxing them more is that it will generate a higher long term tax rate and increase growth and new business then great. If it’s really about a gut envy, which sadly it often really is, then why cut off the country’s nose to spite its face.
So many people most exercised by the wealthy and their tax rates aren’t in any way affected by them. They aren’t being blocked from buying a “Knightsbridge Mansion” because a Swiss hedge fund manager is living there and if we tax him out then it becomes in their price range. People aren’t finding they can’t get served quickly enough because there are a load of super rich wives hogging the deli counter at Harrods. They aren’t pissed off because the waiting list for their new Ferrari is long so if we can tax the fuckers out we will get our new car quicker. I could understand it if there was a battle for resources but there isn’t that.
Why can’t we make our own rich people instead of importing them? After all, we have proven we are good at making poor people.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks volatility in global share prices.
I work in private banking. It’s not a wealth tax as such - it’s that such people see the U.K. government as incompetent and unable to control costs
A number have already moved assets.
They assume that taxes will go up and services and the environment in general will decline.
The trouble is that our tax base has become narrower and narrower. The top 10% pay a huge proportion of tax, but that largely reflects the fact such a large proportion of the nation's income accrues to them too.
It's a doom loop. It's difficult to see a way out of this income/tax structure.
I have asked before and I will again. How does the frequency of 'incidents' with new Reform councillors match up to the whole? Rotten Boroughs details on a biweekly basis the utter shit that goes down in local government around the country. I see little different in Reform, except that everyone is paying attention.
Much more common with Reform, I think. Remember that fewer than 1000 of over 18,000 councillors in the UK are Reform - Lib Dems have more than three times as many, Tories more than four times as many, and Labour more than five times as many. There are a dozen Reform led councils out of 369. They'll hope and expect to grow that in 2026 and beyond, but they're on a par with the Greens as a force in local government at the moment.
Whilst I appreciate there is some more focus on them, you've got to see numbers of suspensions and problems in the context of a party that is really pretty small in terms of numbers of councillors.
I reckon that too. Current numbers by party are:
Labour (5,981), Conservative (4,268), and Liberal Democrats (3,206). Other parties include Reform UK (926), the Green Party (906) https://opencouncildata.co.uk/
Reform have lost 31 in just under 6 months, including 8-9 in September, and half a dozen in recent days. Dates are a little ambiguous of course, as it is a varied process. And that is irregular losses, not involving normal elections.
Pro-rata for the others would be approx 31 losses for Green, 100 for Lib Dem, 140 for Conservative, and 200 for Labour. I think if any of the others had lost that many - eg 1+ per day for Labour - we would have heard about it.
I'd love to see comprehensive numbers, which I have not got or time to generate. To my eye, Reform losses could be anything between 3x and about 5x the rate of any of the others, depending on how eg defections from say Con->Ref are counted. Are the 20 Con losses who went to Reform at Conference in the "lost Tories" dataset?
The easiest numbers to get at would perhaps be amongst the dataset of 1600 Councillors elected in May 2025, or possibly as a proxy amongst Council Leaders leaving their role. There are lots of varied influences (eg fewer paper candidates for the others, people returning to former parties) adding to the Reform loss rate.
(Obviously politically I try and do my bit to help wash away the foundations of the Reform sandcastle, to get the thing politically 6 feet under as soon as is humanly possible.)
A much fairer comparison would be of resignations of councillors elected for the first time by party - I suspect that all parties lose a percentage of new councillors, be they people who can't hack it, people who stood as paper candidates and won by accident, or people who turn out to be unable to work constructively with the leadership.
By comparison, I doubt many councilors heading into their 2nd or 3rd terms drop of shortly after election - but of course, Reform won't have any of them, and the other parties all have lots.
I'm not convinced Reform's travails with this are either particularly noteworthy or deplorable, nor anything to do with them being somewhat right wing - I think any new party building a councillor base from scratch would have exactly the same issues, regardless of where on the political spectrum they fell.
Sorry if this is not specifically answering your questions, but in case it's of interest here is my latest published note on councillor defections ....
It needs updating fairly soon! There doesn't seem to be any slowing down in the number of coiuncillors defecting. And, for what it's worth, I think this might be a more useful measure of political change that local government by-elections.
If you were able to do a "transfers" table with a grid of parties and "this way", "that way", "net" as Mark Pack does for election gains and losses it would be very valuable.
I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.
If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!
As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government
I do not want Reform in power anywhere
You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
The last time I voted Plaid in the Senedd they tried to nail together a rainbow coalition including UKIP and the Tories so I am not inclined their direction. However, if it's them or Reform next May, needs must.
Labour, LD and Green voters need to vote Plaid this time out.
When was that?
2007 we had the rainbow coalition with the Lib Dems, that failed because the Lib Dems couldn't muster a majority for it.
Was it that far back? It was everyone but Labour, which is fine but I'll draw the line at UKIP and the Tories. I thought it was later when all those disgraced Tories had joined UKIP. I may have got my dates in a muddle, but PC were definitely in the mix.
I don't recall Plaid ever offering a coalition with UKIP, although that's not conclusive. It would have had to be around 2015-2016. But the 'rainbow coalition' was an everyone but Labour job in 2007.
When the Yellows walked out, Plaid jumped into bed with Labour instead and their credibility as an opposition party has never quite recovered.
Edit - you might be thinking of 2016, when UKIP and the Tories voted for Leanne Wood as First Minister to annoy Carwyn Jones and prevent him from getting a majority coalition together?
Yes the date seems more appropriate. Although I may have conflated both events.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say, true patriots would, of course, just take the hit.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine.
Whilst the British wealthy are more likely to stay the foreign wealthy don’t need to and those considering moving to the UK won’t come.
There is a line people have when they have a lot of money where they feel they are paying too much. It’s not right or wrong it’s just human.
These people aren’t using an excess of the national infrastructure because they are wealthier, they aren’t using more resources from the state in proportion to their tax contribution. if they used in proportion to their wealth then there is an argument to tax them more proportionately but generally they use less. Private education and healthcare being the clearest examples.
If the argument for taxing them more is that it will generate a higher long term tax rate and increase growth and new business then great. If it’s really about a gut envy, which sadly it often really is, then why cut off the country’s nose to spite its face.
So many people most exercised by the wealthy and their tax rates aren’t in any way affected by them. They aren’t being blocked from buying a “Knightsbridge Mansion” because a Swiss hedge fund manager is living there and if we tax him out then it becomes in their price range. People aren’t finding they can’t get served quickly enough because there are a load of super rich wives hogging the deli counter at Harrods. They aren’t pissed off because the waiting list for their new Ferrari is long so if we can tax the fuckers out we will get our new car quicker. I could understand it if there was a battle for resources but there isn’t that.
Why can’t we make our own rich people instead of importing them? After all, we have proven we are good at making poor people.
In global terms we don't actually make poor people, but instead have two groups of relative poor - those in a generational spiral outside the mainstream economy who are poor relative to the rest of us here, and also the wider younger generations who despite working far harder educationally can't match the path to wealth their parents and grandparents took.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say, true patriots would, of course, just take the hit.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine.
Whilst the British wealthy are more likely to stay the foreign wealthy don’t need to and those considering moving to the UK won’t come.
There is a line people have when they have a lot of money where they feel they are paying too much. It’s not right or wrong it’s just human.
These people aren’t using an excess of the national infrastructure because they are wealthier, they aren’t using more resources from the state in proportion to their tax contribution. if they used in proportion to their wealth then there is an argument to tax them more proportionately but generally they use less. Private education and healthcare being the clearest examples.
If the argument for taxing them more is that it will generate a higher long term tax rate and increase growth and new business then great. If it’s really about a gut envy, which sadly it often really is, then why cut off the country’s nose to spite its face.
So many people most exercised by the wealthy and their tax rates aren’t in any way affected by them. They aren’t being blocked from buying a “Knightsbridge Mansion” because a Swiss hedge fund manager is living there and if we tax him out then it becomes in their price range. People aren’t finding they can’t get served quickly enough because there are a load of super rich wives hogging the deli counter at Harrods. They aren’t pissed off because the waiting list for their new Ferrari is long so if we can tax the fuckers out we will get our new car quicker. I could understand it if there was a battle for resources but there isn’t that.
Why can’t we make our own rich people instead of importing them? After all, we have proven we are good at making poor people.
In global terms we don't actually make poor people, but instead have two groups of relative poor - those in a generational spiral outside the mainstream economy who are poor relative to the rest of us here, and also the wider younger generations who despite working far harder educationally can't match the path to wealth their parents and grandparents took.
Our young peoples parents, and particularly their grandparents, have closed down the routes to wealth that they used; cheap property and good pensions.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
I support a wealth tax, so long as it is combined with reductions on income tax/National Insurance, particularly for lower income workers. What it cannot be is an opportunity to just soak people more.
One of the most important jobs of the government is to encourage economic activity. That means getting the incentives right.
Taxing work, particularly for those at the bottom of the income scale, is fucked up. It's basically discouraging the one thing we want more of.
So, like in Switzerland, we should have a modest wealth tax. And let's use that as an opportunity to fold NI and Income Tax together, and to reduce the burden on the lowest paid.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks volatility in global share prices.
I work in private banking. It’s not a wealth tax as such - it’s that such people see the U.K. government as incompetent and unable to control costs
A number have already moved assets.
They assume that taxes will go up and services and the environment in general will decline.
I wish I'd worked in private banking - I'd have obviously had lots of time to post on PB, whereas in my public sector job I didn't have a moment. Now I've retired......
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say, true patriots would, of course, just take the hit.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine.
Whilst the British wealthy are more likely to stay the foreign wealthy don’t need to and those considering moving to the UK won’t come.
There is a line people have when they have a lot of money where they feel they are paying too much. It’s not right or wrong it’s just human.
These people aren’t using an excess of the national infrastructure because they are wealthier, they aren’t using more resources from the state in proportion to their tax contribution. if they used in proportion to their wealth then there is an argument to tax them more proportionately but generally they use less. Private education and healthcare being the clearest examples.
If the argument for taxing them more is that it will generate a higher long term tax rate and increase growth and new business then great. If it’s really about a gut envy, which sadly it often really is, then why cut off the country’s nose to spite its face.
So many people most exercised by the wealthy and their tax rates aren’t in any way affected by them. They aren’t being blocked from buying a “Knightsbridge Mansion” because a Swiss hedge fund manager is living there and if we tax him out then it becomes in their price range. People aren’t finding they can’t get served quickly enough because there are a load of super rich wives hogging the deli counter at Harrods. They aren’t pissed off because the waiting list for their new Ferrari is long so if we can tax the fuckers out we will get our new car quicker. I could understand it if there was a battle for resources but there isn’t that.
Why can’t we make our own rich people instead of importing them? After all, we have proven we are good at making poor people.
Boulay's point about the 'knightsbridge mansion' is, I think, wrong (though this is just conjecture).
If the swiss hedge fund manager and his/her colleagues drive up the price of a Knightsbridge mansion from £20 million to £50 million, this means that the person who can afford £20 million buys a Hampstead mansion instead, pushing the price from £5 million to £20 million.
This goes on all the way down the chain, until the recent graduate buying a bedsit in Dorking finds that they have to sell their kidney to do so.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say, true patriots would, of course, just take the hit.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine.
Whilst the British wealthy are more likely to stay the foreign wealthy don’t need to and those considering moving to the UK won’t come.
There is a line people have when they have a lot of money where they feel they are paying too much. It’s not right or wrong it’s just human.
These people aren’t using an excess of the national infrastructure because they are wealthier, they aren’t using more resources from the state in proportion to their tax contribution. if they used in proportion to their wealth then there is an argument to tax them more proportionately but generally they use less. Private education and healthcare being the clearest examples.
If the argument for taxing them more is that it will generate a higher long term tax rate and increase growth and new business then great. If it’s really about a gut envy, which sadly it often really is, then why cut off the country’s nose to spite its face.
So many people most exercised by the wealthy and their tax rates aren’t in any way affected by them. They aren’t being blocked from buying a “Knightsbridge Mansion” because a Swiss hedge fund manager is living there and if we tax him out then it becomes in their price range. People aren’t finding they can’t get served quickly enough because there are a load of super rich wives hogging the deli counter at Harrods. They aren’t pissed off because the waiting list for their new Ferrari is long so if we can tax the fuckers out we will get our new car quicker. I could understand it if there was a battle for resources but there isn’t that.
Why can’t we make our own rich people instead of importing them? After all, we have proven we are good at making poor people.
Boulay's point about the 'knightsbridge mansion' is, I think, wrong (though this is just conjecture).
If the swiss hedge fund manager and his/her colleagues drive up the price of a Knightsbridge mansion from £20 million to £50 million, this means that the person who can afford £20 million buys a Hampstead mansion instead, pushing the price from £5 million to £20 million.
This goes on all the way down the chain, until the recent graduate buying a bedsit in Dorking finds that they have to sell their kidney to do so.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks volatility in global share prices.
I work in private banking. It’s not a wealth tax as such - it’s that such people see the U.K. government as incompetent and unable to control costs
A number have already moved assets.
They assume that taxes will go up and services and the environment in general will decline.
I wish I'd worked in private banking - I'd have obviously had lots of time to post on PB, whereas in my public sector job I didn't have a moment. Now I've retired......
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say, true patriots would, of course, just take the hit.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine.
Whilst the British wealthy are more likely to stay the foreign wealthy don’t need to and those considering moving to the UK won’t come.
There is a line people have when they have a lot of money where they feel they are paying too much. It’s not right or wrong it’s just human.
These people aren’t using an excess of the national infrastructure because they are wealthier, they aren’t using more resources from the state in proportion to their tax contribution. if they used in proportion to their wealth then there is an argument to tax them more proportionately but generally they use less. Private education and healthcare being the clearest examples.
If the argument for taxing them more is that it will generate a higher long term tax rate and increase growth and new business then great. If it’s really about a gut envy, which sadly it often really is, then why cut off the country’s nose to spite its face.
So many people most exercised by the wealthy and their tax rates aren’t in any way affected by them. They aren’t being blocked from buying a “Knightsbridge Mansion” because a Swiss hedge fund manager is living there and if we tax him out then it becomes in their price range. People aren’t finding they can’t get served quickly enough because there are a load of super rich wives hogging the deli counter at Harrods. They aren’t pissed off because the waiting list for their new Ferrari is long so if we can tax the fuckers out we will get our new car quicker. I could understand it if there was a battle for resources but there isn’t that.
Why can’t we make our own rich people instead of importing them? After all, we have proven we are good at making poor people.
Boulay's point about the 'knightsbridge mansion' is, I think, wrong (though this is just conjecture).
If the swiss hedge fund manager and his/her colleagues drive up the price of a Knightsbridge mansion from £20 million to £50 million, this means that the person who can afford £20 million buys a Hampstead mansion instead, pushing the price from £5 million to £20 million.
This goes on all the way down the chain, until the recent graduate buying a bedsit in Dorking finds that they have to sell their kidney to do so.
(At least, that seems plausible to me).
I thought retired Dorks lived in Dorking, and recent grads lived in Penge.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
That is a shame, Brexit, as implemented, has been pointless and damaging. There definitely are quite a few in your position, I just think that the number that would have gone, but haven't found workarounds, is in the low hundreds of thousands not millions.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
That is a shame, Brexit, as implemented, has been pointless and damaging. There definitely are quite a few in your position, I just think that the number that would have gone, but haven't found workarounds, is in the low hundreds of thousands not millions.
Certainly wouldn't be millions.
Don't shed any tears for us though. We're perfectly happy here in Gloucestershire. We just browse the Thames Valley rather than the Aude these days when pondering the next move. It's not a tragedy.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
I support a wealth tax, so long as it is combined with reductions on income tax/National Insurance, particularly for lower income workers. What it cannot be is an opportunity to just soak people more.
One of the most important jobs of the government is to encourage economic activity. That means getting the incentives right.
Taxing work, particularly for those at the bottom of the income scale, is fucked up. It's basically discouraging the one thing we want more of.
So, like in Switzerland, we should have a modest wealth tax. And let's use that as an opportunity to fold NI and Income Tax together, and to reduce the burden on the lowest paid.
But that's all it will be. Personal taxation on the low pay is exceptionally low anyway. Most people on less than £30k pay derisory amounts of income tax and ni. , keeping 84% of their salary.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
That is a shame, Brexit, as implemented, has been pointless and damaging. There definitely are quite a few in your position, I just think that the number that would have gone, but haven't found workarounds, is in the low hundreds of thousands not millions.
Certainly wouldn't be millions.
Don't shed any tears for us though. We're perfectly happy here in Gloucestershire. We just browse the Thames Valley rather than the Aude these days when pondering the next move. It's not a tragedy.
As Steps might you "You're going nowhere.....tragedy".
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
I support a wealth tax, so long as it is combined with reductions on income tax/National Insurance, particularly for lower income workers. What it cannot be is an opportunity to just soak people more.
One of the most important jobs of the government is to encourage economic activity. That means getting the incentives right.
Taxing work, particularly for those at the bottom of the income scale, is fucked up. It's basically discouraging the one thing we want more of.
So, like in Switzerland, we should have a modest wealth tax. And let's use that as an opportunity to fold NI and Income Tax together, and to reduce the burden on the lowest paid.
Problem is a wealth tax doesn’t work even in Switzerland it raises little to nothing.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say, true patriots would, of course, just take the hit.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine.
Whilst the British wealthy are more likely to stay the foreign wealthy don’t need to and those considering moving to the UK won’t come.
There is a line people have when they have a lot of money where they feel they are paying too much. It’s not right or wrong it’s just human.
These people aren’t using an excess of the national infrastructure because they are wealthier, they aren’t using more resources from the state in proportion to their tax contribution. if they used in proportion to their wealth then there is an argument to tax them more proportionately but generally they use less. Private education and healthcare being the clearest examples.
If the argument for taxing them more is that it will generate a higher long term tax rate and increase growth and new business then great. If it’s really about a gut envy, which sadly it often really is, then why cut off the country’s nose to spite its face.
So many people most exercised by the wealthy and their tax rates aren’t in any way affected by them. They aren’t being blocked from buying a “Knightsbridge Mansion” because a Swiss hedge fund manager is living there and if we tax him out then it becomes in their price range. People aren’t finding they can’t get served quickly enough because there are a load of super rich wives hogging the deli counter at Harrods. They aren’t pissed off because the waiting list for their new Ferrari is long so if we can tax the fuckers out we will get our new car quicker. I could understand it if there was a battle for resources but there isn’t that.
Why can’t we make our own rich people instead of importing them? After all, we have proven we are good at making poor people.
Boulay's point about the 'knightsbridge mansion' is, I think, wrong (though this is just conjecture).
If the swiss hedge fund manager and his/her colleagues drive up the price of a Knightsbridge mansion from £20 million to £50 million, this means that the person who can afford £20 million buys a Hampstead mansion instead, pushing the price from £5 million to £20 million.
This goes on all the way down the chain, until the recent graduate buying a bedsit in Dorking finds that they have to sell their kidney to do so.
(At least, that seems plausible to me).
So a trickle down benefit of taking less of peoples’ money at the top end?
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
I tell you what I do miss. The free and easy travel through Europe.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
I tell you what I do miss. The free and easy travel through Europe.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
You will have had to show your passport to go from UK -> France and back. But the rest, nothing has changed, in terms of driving around Europe. I did it the other month.
In terms of people's holidays, nothing has really changed. Yes they are bringing in the EU version of ESTA, but you do it once every 3 years, its annoying, adds cost, but that isn't end of the world.
The big impact initially was relocating long term. But actually many European counties were or have increasingly become very pragmatic about it. Portual made it super easy, France are changing their laws, Italy are open for business for anybody who can be self reilant.
The big gap that remains is for people who don't want to relocate permanently, rather they want to spoend more than 3 months every 6 in and out of the EU e.g. do the winter in Spain, summer in the UK.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
I tell you what I do miss. The free and easy travel through Europe.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
You will have had to show your passport to go from UK -> France and back. But the rest, nothing has changed, in terms of driving around Europe. I did it the other month.
In terms of people's holidays, nothing has really changed.
The big impact is relocating long term. But actually many European counties were or have increasingly become very pragmatic about it. Portual made it super easy, France are changing their laws, Italy are open for business for anybody who can be self reilant.
Thanks Francis. That's nice to know, in case the motivation returns.
Portugal appeals. Always thought it was underated. Language might be a problem, but as a native Cockney I find picking up new lanuages quite easy.
President Trump has pardoned Changpeng Zhao, the convicted founder of the crypto exchange Binance, following months of efforts by Zhao to boost the Trump family’s own crypto company. https://x.com/jdawsey1/status/1981378058415128873
Massive bribery of politicians is one of the major use cases for crypto.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
I tell you what I do miss. The free and easy travel through Europe.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
That doesn’t really make sense, as Brexit hasn’t affected travel in Europe. It’s more hassle getting into the EU, but otherwise no Brexit-related change - although the days of unmanned borders inside the EU have retreated a bit; Germany is now manning many of its land borders and making spot checks, for example. But most of my other crossings this year - by land, Norway/Finland, Netherlands/Belgium, Belgium/France, Switzerland/Italy, Italy/France, were all unmanned, and there were no passport related checks (other than ID for check in) on ferries between Finland/Sweden and Sweden/Germany, and only Norwegian ones on Denmark/Norway.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
I tell you what I do miss. The free and easy travel through Europe.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
You will have had to show your passport to go from UK -> France and back. But the rest, nothing has changed, in terms of driving around Europe. I did it the other month.
In terms of people's holidays, nothing has really changed.
The big impact is relocating long term. But actually many European counties were or have increasingly become very pragmatic about it. Portual made it super easy, France are changing their laws, Italy are open for business for anybody who can be self reilant.
Thanks Francis. That's nice to know, in case the motivation returns.
Portugal appeals. Always thought it was underated. Language might be a problem, but as a native Cockney I find picking up new lanuages quite easy.
The big problem with Portugal, on top of a tricky language to speak, full time is getting anything done. It makes the infamous Italian red tape look like small beer, because not only are the government massive on red tape, 5 companies dominant every sector of the economy. So if your providers of x service are shit or you want building work done let you down, you can complain, but good luck as at best there is one other company who can provide that service and they won't be any better.
Now if you just go for 2-3 months, you rent from somebody else (or you pay over the top for a management company), happy days. They have to deal with sitting on the phone for 8 days to hire scaffolding to fix the roof.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
I support a wealth tax, so long as it is combined with reductions on income tax/National Insurance, particularly for lower income workers. What it cannot be is an opportunity to just soak people more.
One of the most important jobs of the government is to encourage economic activity. That means getting the incentives right.
Taxing work, particularly for those at the bottom of the income scale, is fucked up. It's basically discouraging the one thing we want more of.
So, like in Switzerland, we should have a modest wealth tax. And let's use that as an opportunity to fold NI and Income Tax together, and to reduce the burden on the lowest paid.
There may partly be a case for that but a wealth tax should not hit the merely moderately well off in assets and NI as I have long said should be ringfenced for JSA and the state pension. Plus pensioners should pay it too to help fund their social care
I see we are rapidly going from its just your digital ID to prove who you say you are to something much bigger and of course you can't do all of this without the massive centralised database.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
Yes, that is a loss, as is the option to spend say six months in another EU country, which was a freedom we had before Brexit. I travel a lot in Europe and every year have to do my sums to stay within the 90 day limit, across the summer, and both this year and the year before last hit the ninety days exactly. And if you go on any travel forum there are tons of motorhoming Brits having to do the ‘Schengen shuffle’ - much more difficult now Romania and Bulgaria are inside Schengen for land travel - looking at spending time in Serbia or Morocco or Turkey until their ninety days resets.
The irony is that Mr Dog can stay for four months, on the usual travel certificate used by Brits, and in my case indefinitely as he has a Belgian passport.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
I tell you what I do miss. The free and easy travel through Europe.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
You will have had to show your passport to go from UK -> France and back. But the rest, nothing has changed, in terms of driving around Europe. I did it the other month.
In terms of people's holidays, nothing has really changed.
The big impact is relocating long term. But actually many European counties were or have increasingly become very pragmatic about it. Portual made it super easy, France are changing their laws, Italy are open for business for anybody who can be self reilant.
Thanks Francis. That's nice to know, in case the motivation returns.
Portugal appeals. Always thought it was underated. Language might be a problem, but as a native Cockney I find picking up new lanuages quite easy.
The big problem with Portugal, on top of a tricky language to speak, full time is getting anything done. It makes the infamous Italian red tape look like small beer, because not only are the government massive on red tape, 5 companies dominant every sector of the economy. So if your providers of x service are shit or you want building work done let you down, you can complain, but good luck as at best there is one other company who can provide that service and they won't be any better.
Now if you just go for 2-3 months, you rent from somebody else (or you pay over the top for a management company), happy days. They have to deal with sitting on the phone for 8 days to hire scaffolding to fix the roof.
Noted with thanks, Francis.
We have friends there and Mrs P had an extended break with them recently. My impression is she could cope with the hardships!
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
I tell you what I do miss. The free and easy travel through Europe.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
You will have had to show your passport to go from UK -> France and back. But the rest, nothing has changed, in terms of driving around Europe. I did it the other month.
In terms of people's holidays, nothing has really changed.
The big impact is relocating long term. But actually many European counties were or have increasingly become very pragmatic about it. Portual made it super easy, France are changing their laws, Italy are open for business for anybody who can be self reilant.
Thanks Francis. That's nice to know, in case the motivation returns.
Portugal appeals. Always thought it was underated. Language might be a problem, but as a native Cockney I find picking up new lanuages quite easy.
The big problem with Portugal, on top of a tricky language to speak, full time is getting anything done. It makes the infamous Italian red tape look like small beer, because not only are the government massive on red tape, 5 companies dominant every sector of the economy. So if your providers of x service are shit or you want building work done let you down, you can complain, but good luck as at best there is one other company who can provide that service and they won't be any better.
Now if you just go for 2-3 months, you rent from somebody else (or you pay over the top for a management company), happy days. They have to deal with sitting on the phone for 8 days to hire scaffolding to fix the roof.
Noted with thanks, Francis.
We have friends there and Mrs P had an extended break with them recently. My impression is she could cope with the hardships!
I'll send you a postcard if we ever go.
My elderly parents spend ~5 months a year living there and love it. But they pay probably over the top not to have to deal with the BS.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
Yes, that is a loss, as is the option to spend say six months in another EU country, which was a freedom we had before Brexit. I travel a lot in Europe and every year have to do my sums to stay within the 90 day limit, across the summer, and both this year and the year before last hit the ninety days exactly. And if you go on any travel forum there are tons of motorhoming Brits having to do the ‘Schengen shuffle’ - much more difficult now Romania and Bulgaria are inside Schengen for land travel - looking at spending time in Serbia or Morocco or Turkey until their ninety days resets.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Oh good. The trickle-down theory. It's been a while...
Which bit is incorrect? I only have the knowledge from working with and talking to these sorts of people over a nearly thirty year career so understanding their motivations and am regularly speaking to a good number who are in the process of leaving the UK but please correct me otherwise.
You've set the stage clearly and coherently but the issue is that people who are just about managing have no affinity to millionaires or billionaires. They just don't register apart from fiction on Neflix and the like. If you want to lobby for the rich, start an APPG and lobby for them. They'll no doubt fund it and fund it well. You could even retire on the fees paid to administer it.
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
I tell you what I do miss. The free and easy travel through Europe.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
You will have had to show your passport to go from UK -> France and back. But the rest, nothing has changed, in terms of driving around Europe. I did it the other month.
In terms of people's holidays, nothing has really changed. Yes they are bringing in the EU version of ESTA, but you do it once every 3 years, its annoying, adds cost, but that isn't end of the world.
The big impact initially was relocating long term. But actually many European counties were or have increasingly become very pragmatic about it. Portual made it super easy, France are changing their laws, Italy are open for business for anybody who can be self reilant.
The big gap that remains is for people who don't want to relocate permanently, rather they want to spoend more than 3 months every 6 in and out of the EU e.g. do the winter in Spain, summer in the UK.
It is the unexpected too. My ex had a terrible family tragedy which she couldn't recover from and last year went to Crete to try to lift herself. It helped in a way nothing else had been able to and she's now living the life of a hippy. She looks incredible and is having a lfe Leonard Cohen would be jealous of. The only problem is she can't come back or she'll never be let back in again. She's missing important things but it's a choice she has to make which isn't great for our daughter.
I see we are rapidly going from its just your digital ID to prove who you say you are to something much bigger and of course you can't do all of this without the massive centralised database.
I see people are already "jailbreaking" the likes of ChatGPTs browser getting it to do things when some hapless people using the browser to visit webpages or twitter etc and ask questions about contents. What could possibly go wrong if it wasn't security researchers and general nerds....
'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.
93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour
How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.
And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.
The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
They also take their spending on food and drink both in shops and bars/restaurants, they stop employing their cleaner, driver, security, accountant, solicitors. They stop buying their clothes, watches and jewellery, art, furniture in London too so the shops that were selling these things need fewer staff or close. Those staff have to find jobs in possibly lower paid roles elsewhere and so cut down their spending.
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
Despite what you say true patriots would, of course, just take the hit and stay in the greatest country on earth.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
You are assuming that they are mostly or even partly British.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
People undersell the UK on this topic. It would still be a fabulous place to live with a wealth tax and whilst some would leave, the vast, vast majority won't.
Ah yes - “they won’t alter their behaviour” strategy on tax.
Always works.
Some will as I said. Moving to another country is towards the extreme side of changing behaviour for a tax that makes less difference to their wealth than a typical weeks of volatility in global share prices.
And yet people are bemoaning that Brexit has denied people the opportunity to move and live and work around Europe to improve their lives.
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
I doubt there were millions of Brits looking to move abroad who have been stopped due to Brexit, low hundreds of thousands over several years perhaps. Unless we are including youngsters who would spend a summer or two there.
Hi None.
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
I have no plans to retire to the continent but my grandparents retired to Spain, thanks to the EU, so I am very aware of how Brexit has shrunk our opportunities.
I tell you what I do miss. The free and easy travel through Europe.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
You will have had to show your passport to go from UK -> France and back. But the rest, nothing has changed, in terms of driving around Europe. I did it the other month.
In terms of people's holidays, nothing has really changed. Yes they are bringing in the EU version of ESTA, but you do it once every 3 years, its annoying, adds cost, but that isn't end of the world.
The big impact initially was relocating long term. But actually many European counties were or have increasingly become very pragmatic about it. Portual made it super easy, France are changing their laws, Italy are open for business for anybody who can be self reilant.
The big gap that remains is for people who don't want to relocate permanently, rather they want to spoend more than 3 months every 6 in and out of the EU e.g. do the winter in Spain, summer in the UK.
.... The only problem is she can't come back or she's never never be let back in again. ....
I see we are rapidly going from its just your digital ID to prove who you say you are to something much bigger and of course you can't do all of this without the massive centralised database.
You can do it without a centralised database because the one login design is based around separate databases with a centralised authentication system...
Comments
I'd go through pretty much every other party before putting my X next to the nationalists, of whatever flavour. But I now live in Fulham, so not my decision anymore haha
I can actually look out of the window to see what it is doing now - and it's not blue either.
The real issue is whether they will turn off the old style completely. It had a decent balance of weather now - you look at the bit in the top left - and in the future - the eye trails along.
The public have already turned against them after the last strike so they’ve decided to have another go at trashing their reputation .
I was happy to support the initial strikes before they had that huge pay rise but now they just look greedy and out of touch .
The slide pack was interesting. There was a diagnostic tree in the notes as well
So great, the people have stuck it to those rich bastards by raising their taxes. Unfortunately those rich bastards aren’t going to be paying those taxes in the UK anyway now, you’ve sucked spending out of the country. You’ve affected balance of payments because a lot of those people were making their money overseas and bringing it in to the UK as they were living there.
They were also keeping maybe an office in the UK, don’t need that now. They might be about to be setting up a spin-off of one of their businesses and liked the idea of having it based in the UK as they can gets hands on.
Now they are in Zurich, Dubai, wherever they might as well do it there and employ people there.
If they care about the arts or a particularl medical condition then they aren’t going to be donating to UK based charities and entities, won’t be supporting fundraisers in the UK, they will support where they are living.
Ultimately the country is poorer and some people might feel so much better for having kicked the rich but they are still rich, just not benefiting the UK.
As an aside he’s certainly no bigot. When Syrian families were moved in to the estate he organised for people to go and welcome them and help decorate their homes and donate any unwanted appliances.
When the Yellows walked out, Plaid jumped into bed with Labour instead and their credibility as an opposition party has never quite recovered.
Edit - you might be thinking of 2016, when UKIP and the Tories voted for Leanne Wood as First Minister to annoy Carwyn Jones and prevent him from getting a majority coalition together?
This is what happens to a mind after 60!
It is a bloody awful revamp by The Met Office, too many symbols and too little information. As you posted later The Met Office are at the FAFO stage with the feedback.
After all, it's not as if these millionaires and billionaires would be short of a bob or two if they had to pay 1% or 2% extra tax on their wealth.
Indeed, they'd still be absolutely rolling in it in a way that the vast majority of us can barely imagine. Unless they're just greedy.
Or every election.
Trump Empowers Election Deniers, Still Fixated on 2020 Grievances
The president has placed proponents of his false claims into government jobs while dismantling systems built to secure voting, raising fears that he aims to seize authority over elections ahead of next year’s midterms.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/22/us/politics/trump-election-deniers-voting-security.html?unlocked_article_code=1.vk8.2LGT.y8_8SwWfXz5C&smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare
I'd watch that.
On a smaller scale - why should my Indian or Chinese colleagues not move to another country where the bank we work for has offices? One that offers them a better tax/services/ environment?
After all, this is a guy who was schooled by Roy Cohn.
It really is a grim and dark prospect, I'm afraid. The red lights are flashing.
There is a line people have when they have a lot of money where they feel they are paying too much. It’s not right or wrong it’s just human.
These people aren’t using an excess of the national infrastructure because they are wealthier, they aren’t using more resources from the state in proportion to their tax contribution. if they used in proportion to their wealth then there is an argument to tax them more proportionately but generally they use less. Private education and healthcare being the clearest examples.
If the argument for taxing them more is that it will generate a higher long term tax rate and increase growth and new business then great. If it’s really about a gut envy, which sadly it often really is, then why cut off the country’s nose to spite its face.
So many people most exercised by the wealthy and their tax rates aren’t in any way affected by them. They aren’t being blocked from buying a “Knightsbridge Mansion” because a Swiss hedge fund manager is living there and if we tax him out then it becomes in their price range. People aren’t finding they can’t get served quickly enough because there are a load of super rich wives hogging the deli counter at Harrods. They aren’t pissed off because the waiting list for their new Ferrari is long so if we can tax the fuckers out we will get our new car quicker. I could understand it if there was a battle for resources but there isn’t that.
Exclusive: Two of Nathan Gill's fellow Ukip/Brexit Party MEPs used the same pro-Russia talking points in European Parliament, after joining him on a paid-for trip to Kyiv
https://bsky.app/profile/catneilan.bsky.social/post/3m3un6zxbfs2b
Always works.
Mind you, I am not a member of the conservative party anymore anyway
Trump on Wednesday pardoned Binance co-founder Changpeng Zhao, who pleaded guilty to a money laundering charge in 2023, two sources familiar with the matter tell me, confirming WSJ
Leavitt said in a statement that Trump “exercised his constitutional authority by issuing a pardon for Mr. Zhao, who was prosecuted by the Biden Administration in their war on cryptocurrency.”
If we consider the apparent millions who have had their plans ruined by Brexit stopping them from moving as rational then it’s surely no different than the wealthy moving country for their best options - is keeping more of your own money not as valid as wanting a different culture, different career options, different weather and lifestyle.
It's a shame if Malik has done the crime, as as far as I can see his political record is commendable apart from one or two blots on the copybook (eg an expenses issue in 2009-10).
A number have already moved assets.
They assume that taxes will go up and services and the environment in general will decline.
And the same incompetence and cost control effects the rest of the west as well. So Middle East will continue to grow and be attractive, sure, and it would regardless of what we do. I just dont see large numbers leaving for France, Germany, US etc.
(To be fair, and with apologies for a slightly snarky opening comment: you are arguing the opposite, that tax increases will reduce investment in UK. This study (and others) highlights that reducing tax does not increase investment).
Perhaps Sacha Baron Cohen could do it, as a good physical and improvisational actor, who can also be quirky and off centre. Also a commonality of backgrounds, with Sellers also being partly Jewish. Steve Coogan is another possibility.
It's a doom loop. It's difficult to see a way out of this income/tax structure.
Example here:
https://www.markpack.org.uk/174682/council-by-election-results-scorecard-2025-2026/
(I appreciate that the Further Right zoo may need to be combined.)
It was something Mrs PtP and I were looking at back then, but Brexit ruled it out. To be fair, we may not have gone anyway, and we could probably find workarounds if we really wanted to go now, but the bottom line is that it effectively closed a door for us.
Individual anecdotal examples prove nothing of course, but I should think there are quite a few others similarly affected.
One of the most important jobs of the government is to encourage economic activity. That means getting the incentives right.
Taxing work, particularly for those at the bottom of the income scale, is fucked up. It's basically discouraging the one thing we want more of.
So, like in Switzerland, we should have a modest wealth tax. And let's use that as an opportunity to fold NI and Income Tax together, and to reduce the burden on the lowest paid.
Now I've retired......
If the swiss hedge fund manager and his/her colleagues drive up the price of a Knightsbridge mansion from £20 million to £50 million, this means that the person who can afford £20 million buys a Hampstead mansion instead, pushing the price from £5 million to £20 million.
This goes on all the way down the chain, until the recent graduate buying a bedsit in Dorking finds that they have to sell their kidney to do so.
(At least, that seems plausible to me).
Kidneys don't fetch that much.
Don't shed any tears for us though. We're perfectly happy here in Gloucestershire. We just browse the Thames Valley rather than the Aude these days when pondering the next move. It's not a tragedy.
A few years before Brexit I drove to Nice for a holiday and on a whim decided to return through Switzerland, Germany and Belgium. It was a delight, and I don't think I showed my passport once.
They set a trap for Perplexity - a test post only crawlable by Google, existing nowhere else on the internet. Within hours, it was on Perplexity
https://x.com/ednewtonrex/status/1981344059340791974
In terms of people's holidays, nothing has really changed. Yes they are bringing in the EU version of ESTA, but you do it once every 3 years, its annoying, adds cost, but that isn't end of the world.
The big impact initially was relocating long term. But actually many European counties were or have increasingly become very pragmatic about it. Portual made it super easy, France are changing their laws, Italy are open for business for anybody who can be self reilant.
The big gap that remains is for people who don't want to relocate permanently, rather they want to spoend more than 3 months every 6 in and out of the EU e.g. do the winter in Spain, summer in the UK.
Portugal appeals. Always thought it was underated. Language might be a problem, but as a native Cockney I find picking up new lanuages quite easy.
https://x.com/jdawsey1/status/1981378058415128873
Massive bribery of politicians is one of the major use cases for crypto.
Keir Starmer
@Keir_Starmer
·
4m
Digital ID will be a huge help in tackling illegal immigration.
But it’s so much more than that.
It will empower people every single day by giving you a new way to prove who you are.
Saving time and money when you apply for a mortgage by cutting down unnecessary paperwork.
Proving your right to rent in one click.
Personalised public services like helping parents claim eligibility for free childcare and nursery places.
It is time to put power back in people’s hands and bring the UK into the modern age.
https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1981405376458142013
They strike if they think it will work.
They strike if they think it will work.
Now if you just go for 2-3 months, you rent from somebody else (or you pay over the top for a management company), happy days. They have to deal with sitting on the phone for 8 days to hire scaffolding to fix the roof.
The irony is that Mr Dog can stay for four months, on the usual travel certificate used by Brits, and in my case indefinitely as he has a Belgian passport.
If not, it does not empower us. Quite the contrary.
It's the public themselves they don't massively care about.
We have friends there and Mrs P had an extended break with them recently. My impression is she could cope with the hardships!
I'll send you a postcard if we ever go.
You could call it "Hug a Billi (onaire)"
Sir Papers Please, not Francis.