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The Deputy Leadership seems a Bridget too far for Phillipson – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,748
edited October 23 in General
The Deputy Leadership seems a Bridget too far for Phillipson – politicalbetting.com

Why Lucy Powell? Admired for independence & perceived left-leaning stance. Vote often signals protest at leadership.“She’s more left.”“Not endorsed by leadership.”“The best candidate for deputy.”

Read the full story here

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,977
    If Powell wins the Labour Deputy Leadership vote that will be a boost for Burnham given he backed her and Starmer supporters largely backed Phillipson
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,977
    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,318
    FPT
    IanB2 said:

    LostPassword said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Malmesbury said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    It's basically Enoch's agenda from 1968, made real by draft legislation, isn't it?
    Powell only went as far as voluntary repatriation. This is worse.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,445
    I hope Lucy Powell has won.
    It'll shake it up a bit.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 23,047
    2 shite Candidates

    Both right wing Labour in the normal definition of the Labour Party spectrum
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,318
    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610
    FPT...
    viewcode said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Malmesbury said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    The Reform/Lam/Jenrick stuff removes for millions of people what was a previously barely perceptible thing (because it was never before questioned) - simply being secure in your own residence.
    Two of my children were born in the US and have American passports. My wife was born here but has a Sri Lankan passport. Her parents and brothers are naturalized British citizens. One sister in law is French with settled status. Another sister in law's parents are Indian. Which of us is actually fully secure here in the current climate?
    Has anybody checked Katie Lam/Robert Jenrick/Kemi Badenoch's extended family's heritage? The has to be at least one Conservative MP who will fall foul of this, whether personally or via a relative.

    And wasn't Boris Johnson born in the States?
    Johnson was born in the US and had US citizenship, but gave it up, so isn't currently eligible for US citizenship. Lam has one or two German Jewish grandparents: not enough for Germany citizenship, but enough for Israeli citizenship. Badenoch had a Nigerian passport, but says she has not renewed it for years... but presumably she remains entitled to Nigerian citizenship.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,318
    edited October 23
    Barnesian said:

    viewcode said:

    FPT

    IanB2 said:

    LostPassword said:

    Morris_Dancer said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Malmesbury said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    It's rather shocking how the main three parties seem utterly disinterested in the centre ground and are (mostly) busy rushing to ape Reform. The Lib Dems aren't, but with their policy of flinging cash at the WASPI lot and comfortable limitation as the party of lovely leafy suburbs and Waitrose shoppers appear thoroughly disinterested in appealing to the sensible left, right and centre.

    Badenoch needs to slap down this Lam nonsense. Threatening to expel law-abiding and tax-paying migrants who have done nothing wrong is morally repugnant and bloody stupid. It reminds me a little of Tyrion lambasting Joffrey as being the first king who was both vicious and an idiot.
    It's apparently official Tory party policy. They published a draft bill setting it out in May, but no-one noticed until Lam's interview in the Sunday Times.

    It's a terrible position for Badenoch to find herself in. She's under pressure to discipline a backbencher effectively for merely being better than her at gaining publicity for party policy. What a mess.

    If Badenoch simply says, "this has been party policy for half a year," then, firstly, it's incredibly embarrassing that everyone ignored it, and secondly all the outrage transfers to her. Anything else she might say would be worse.

    So she's left saying and doing nothing and hoping it goes away and everyone forgets. Absolute shambles.
    It's basically Enoch's agenda from 1968, made real by draft legislation, isn't it?
    Powell only went as far as voluntary repatriation. This is worse.
    Different Powell I hope.
    • Enoch Powell was the one who supported voluntary repatriation
    • Lucy Powell is the one who doesn't. Hopefully.
    :)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    All these terrible puns on A Bridge too Far.

    TSE, you're really coming across as a hack, man.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,676
    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    Now you have the information, will it definitely be a Plaid?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,196
    edited October 23
    fpt
    viewcode said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Malmesbury said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    The Reform/Lam/Jenrick stuff removes for millions of people what was a previously barely perceptible thing (because it was never before questioned) - simply being secure in your own residence.
    Two of my children were born in the US and have American passports. My wife was born here but has a Sri Lankan passport. Her parents and brothers are naturalized British citizens. One sister in law is French with settled status. Another sister in law's parents are Indian. Which of us is actually fully secure here in the current climate?
    Has anybody checked Katie Lam/Robert Jenrick/Kemi Badenoch's extended family's heritage? The has to be at least one Conservative MP who will fall foul of this, whether personally or via a relative.

    And wasn't Boris Johnson born in the States?
    Katie Lam's grandfather was a holocaust survivor who was in favour of open borders. Apparently they had arguments about it - (open borders).

    Quote from the article below:

    "With much of her grandfather’s Dutch Jewish family killed in the Holocaust and her grandmother’s left-wing one forced to escape political persecution, both “had a very traumatic 20th century”."

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/katie-lam-whole-concept-asylum-outdated
  • eekeek Posts: 31,587
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
    Heck if the Green’s have a chance of being elected the billionaires will be in Milan / Dubai well before the election. So even year 1 would be very little
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    edited October 23
    On topic:

    If Labour members think Lucy Powell was the answer they were asking the wrong question.

    I will concede that the alternative answer suggests the whole system was asking the wrong question.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,977
    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,977
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
    Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,755
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
    Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
    Their money certainly would be.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,977
    Taz said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    People support a tax that others will pay and not them

    That’s a surprise.

    Yes, by contrast just 15% of UK voters back increasing income tax for all working Britains, 75% opposed.

    77% oppose increasing VAT and 70% oppose freezing the state pension and 65% oppose increasing National Insurance rates and 56% oppose increasing inheritance tax
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50820-britons-say-public-services-are-bad-but-they-arent-willing-to-pay-more-to-fix-them?utm_source=website_article&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=50820
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 56,355
    ydoethur said:

    All these terrible puns on A Bridge too Far.

    TSE, you're really coming across as a hack, man.

    I Caan't handle it!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 38,196
    Mogg has apparently called for Tories to vote tactically for Reform in Caerphilly.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,676
    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    Is voting for a rival party grounds for expulsion from the Conservatives?

    It is for us.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,253
    Andy_JS said:

    Mogg has apparently called for Tories to vote tactically for Reform in Caerphilly.

    Kiss of death I'd have thought.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    Sunil_Prasannan said:

    ydoethur said:

    All these terrible puns on A Bridge too Far.

    TSE, you're really coming across as a hack, man.

    I Caan't handle it!
    Really? I thought it was in your Genes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    Andy_JS said:

    Mogg has apparently called for Tories to vote tactically for Reform in Caerphilly.

    Once a fool, always a fool.

    Turnout is the key though.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,472
    Junior doctors have announced a five-day strike over renewed pay demands.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,359
    About to celebrate a wake without drinks.

    https://x.com/WelshLabour/status/1981314672021119328

    I guess the weather will be to blame if Labour lose.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,676
    Andy_JS said:

    Mogg has apparently called for Tories to vote tactically for Reform in Caerphilly.

    Hoping that the Tories lose their deposit to increase pressure on Kemi?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,377
    Andy_JS said:

    fpt

    viewcode said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Malmesbury said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    The Reform/Lam/Jenrick stuff removes for millions of people what was a previously barely perceptible thing (because it was never before questioned) - simply being secure in your own residence.
    Two of my children were born in the US and have American passports. My wife was born here but has a Sri Lankan passport. Her parents and brothers are naturalized British citizens. One sister in law is French with settled status. Another sister in law's parents are Indian. Which of us is actually fully secure here in the current climate?
    Has anybody checked Katie Lam/Robert Jenrick/Kemi Badenoch's extended family's heritage? The has to be at least one Conservative MP who will fall foul of this, whether personally or via a relative.

    And wasn't Boris Johnson born in the States?
    Katie Lam's grandfather was a holocaust survivor who was in favour of open borders. Apparently they had arguments about it - (open borders).

    Quote from the article below:

    "With much of her grandfather’s Dutch Jewish family killed in the Holocaust and her grandmother’s left-wing one forced to escape political persecution, both “had a very traumatic 20th century”."

    https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/katie-lam-whole-concept-asylum-outdated
    Jenrick has Holocaust survivors on his wife's side.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 62,069
    SandyRentool said:

    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    Is voting for a rival party grounds for expulsion from the Conservatives?

    It is for us.
    I thought it waas voting for a rival wing of the party that was ground for expulsion.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,253
    A vote for Phillipson seems like a wasted vote. What purpose will it serve having a second deputy from within Cabinet. Lucy Powell owes nothing to anyone so can speak her mind and for the members which is as it should be.

    I'm a big fan of Jess Phillips but watching her being asked this morning why she voted for the criminalisation of Palestine Action and her answers showed starkly why expecting an independent thought from a Minister however talented is a step too far. It emasculates even the finest
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,744
    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,278
    Malmesbury said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
    Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
    Their money certainly would be.
    The Monaco anthem should probably be played after every GP, not just if Leclerc wins ;)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,977
    SandyRentool said:

    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    Is voting for a rival party grounds for expulsion from the Conservatives?

    It is for us.
    I don't live in Caerphilly and haven't, I ensure I live in a seat where the Conservatives will still be in the top 2 so such a decision never arises
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    Roger said:

    A vote for Phillipson seems like a wasted vote. What purpose will it serve having a second deputy from within Cabinet. Lucy Powell owes nothing to anyone so can speak her mind and for the members which is as it should be.

    What mind?

    Also, just cycling through deputy leaders since 1924 in my own mind, I can't think of a single one who wasn't a member of the Cabinet/Shadow Cabinet (admittedly until 1997 the Shadow Cabinet was elected). Even ones who were personally loathed by the leader (Morrison, Watson) drunk as a skunk (Brown) completely discredited (Prescott) or mind-bendingly obsessed with trivialities (Harman).
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,816
    ydoethur said:

    All these terrible puns on A Bridge too Far.

    TSE, you're really coming across as a hack, man.

    Is he waiting for a Bridget of sighs in response?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Will your bookie have to Shell out?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,123
    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Me too. Although, contrary to the wisdom of the crowd, I don't think Starmer will be particularly bothered if Powell wins.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,092
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
    Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
    They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,903
    dr_spyn said:

    About to celebrate a wake without drinks.

    https://x.com/WelshLabour/status/1981314672021119328

    I guess the weather will be to blame if Labour lose.

    I feel like I should be calling the police for a welfare check.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,755
    Gallowgate said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
    Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
    They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
    Good luck trying to raise much from that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 26,318
    Douglas Murray in the Spectator has written an article on Katie Lam's cadenza, dragging Enoch Powell into it.

    He's remarkably relaxed about it, reckoning it'll blow over in a bit...
    ...Er, no. He doesn't think that. Not even slightly. Have a look.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/imagine-what-enoch-powell-might-have-said/
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,676
    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Will your bookie have to Shell out?
    Depends on the Total number of votes she gets.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Will your bookie have to Shell out?
    Depends on the Total number of votes she gets.
    Is so?
  • A_View_From_Cumbria5A_View_From_Cumbria5 Posts: 718
    rcs1000 said:

    SandyRentool said:

    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    Is voting for a rival party grounds for expulsion from the Conservatives?

    It is for us.
    I thought it waas voting for a rival wing of the party that was ground for expulsion.
    Actively campaigning for another candidate or signing nomination papers for a rival candidate WOULD be reasons to expel but the views of the aggrieved candidate would be taken into account. In a parish election where there aren't party labels there are unofficial off the record lists. But it is bad tactics to vote for a full slate of candidates as that cuts the value of your votes.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,676
    ydoethur said:

    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Will your bookie have to Shell out?
    Depends on the Total number of votes she gets.
    Is so?
    I placed my X on the box next to Phillipson's name.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,875
    Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE.
    Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife.
    So. A GP can't but a teacher can?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,676
    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Will your bookie have to Shell out?
    Depends on the Total number of votes she gets.
    Is so?
    I placed my X on the box next to Phillipson's name.
    Will the count be over quickly, or will it be a Marathon?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Will your bookie have to Shell out?
    Depends on the Total number of votes she gets.
    Is so?
    I placed my X on the box next to Phillipson's name.
    So you're her recruiting sergeant?

    With a nice Chevron, I trust.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    dixiedean said:

    Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE.
    Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife.
    So. A GP can't but a teacher can?

    To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,676
    ydoethur said:

    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Will your bookie have to Shell out?
    Depends on the Total number of votes she gets.
    Is so?
    I placed my X on the box next to Phillipson's name.
    So you're her recruiting sergeant?

    With a nice Chevron, I trust.
    You won't find a Fina candidate.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,262
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I started a new glass coffin company, hopefully it’s successful. Remains to be seen.

    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I started a new glass coffin company, hopefully it’s successful. Remains to be seen.

    Took me a few seconds.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    I started a new glass coffin company, hopefully it’s successful. Remains to be seen.

    I hope he soon builds up a clear body of work.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,359
    Foss said:

    dr_spyn said:

    About to celebrate a wake without drinks.

    https://x.com/WelshLabour/status/1981314672021119328

    I guess the weather will be to blame if Labour lose.

    I feel like I should be calling the police for a welfare check.
    I'm looking forward to Welsh Labour's first tweet after the Caerphilly result.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,587
    edited October 23
    Gallowgate said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
    Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
    They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
    And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.

    And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,875
    edited October 23
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE.
    Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife.
    So. A GP can't but a teacher can?

    To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
    Indeed. But the average teacher has what? A day's training if they are lucky.
    Many I've met are hostile to the whole concept of SEND. They want "disruptive" kids out.
    However. The school will see funding.
    So. Yet more reports, assessments, meetings. On our own time.
    And pressure from above to accede.
    Ironically. I'd be willing to do this. And more qualified than a teacher in mainstream, or a council official or a GP.
    They'd just have to take me out of the classroom to be able to do it.
    Ironically of course. This falls on teachers. Not on TA's who increasingly spend almost exclusive time with these kids (and often have far more knowledge). But aren't considered the right class or background. (Except when it comes to teaching class with zero notice on minimum wage cos there's no bugger else).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,755
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE.
    Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife.
    So. A GP can't but a teacher can?

    To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE.
    Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife.
    So. A GP can't but a teacher can?

    To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
    Training teachers to
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE.
    Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife.
    So. A GP can't but a teacher can?

    To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
    training teachers to spot various things for referral is sensible.

    At my youngest daughters private school, all the teachers did a course on the issues like ADHD, autism…. How to spot signs, suggest getting a professional opinion etc.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,903
    dr_spyn said:

    Foss said:

    dr_spyn said:

    About to celebrate a wake without drinks.

    https://x.com/WelshLabour/status/1981314672021119328

    I guess the weather will be to blame if Labour lose.

    I feel like I should be calling the police for a welfare check.
    I'm looking forward to Welsh Labour's first tweet after the Caerphilly result.
    I'm not sure I am. First to third will be a bit of a shock to their system. At least with first to second they can tell themselves there's a good chance of recapture next time around.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 17,126
    Northern_Al said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Me too. Although, contrary to the wisdom of the crowd, I don't think Starmer will be particularly bothered if Powell wins.
    Me three!
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,958
    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    SandyRentool said:

    ydoethur said:

    kinabalu said:

    Well I voted for BP. So not for the first time I'm out of step.

    Will your bookie have to Shell out?
    Depends on the Total number of votes she gets.
    Is so?
    I placed my X on the box next to Phillipson's name.
    So you're her recruiting sergeant?

    With a nice Chevron, I trust.
    You won't find a Fina candidate.
    I'll jet over to the TV to get the result.
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,588
    dr_spyn said:

    Foss said:

    dr_spyn said:

    About to celebrate a wake without drinks.

    https://x.com/WelshLabour/status/1981314672021119328

    I guess the weather will be to blame if Labour lose.

    I feel like I should be calling the police for a welfare check.
    I'm looking forward to Welsh Labour's first tweet after the Caerphilly result.
    That may be why the graphic designer is on leave!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,377
    It gets more complex. Reform and AI. Win one, lose one.

    The Devon Expenses One
    Incident number one:

    A Devon councillor at the centre of an election expenses row has been granted relief by a High Court judge who declared there had been “no bad faith”.

    Councillor Neil Stevens accepted in his official written court submission that “mistakes had been made” but that he was “truly sorry” for this, and that he would “never make this kind of mistake again”…

    In Cllr Neil Stevens’ written affidavit, he claimed that Cllr Hill had “underlined that in addition to his own experience and understanding of the rules, he had also checked his work using artificial intelligence, namely the widely used system, ChatGPT, with the result that this had confirmed his understanding of the rules”.

    The Decided on a drawing of lots, which the RefUK candidate challenged legally, one:
    Incident number two:

    Elizabeth Williams, who stood in the Littletons ward [Worcestershire] during this year’s county council elections, lost out after the result was decided by the drawing of lots…

    Ms Williams later launched a legal challenge against the outcome, but Mr Justice Martin Spencer ruled that her claim was submitted too late. The judge also reportedly criticised errors in her legal documents, noting that some cited legal precedents appeared to have been “an invention, indeed a hallucination, of AI.”

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/175798/ai-twice-blamed-in-reforms-election-law-problems/
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,529
    viewcode said:

    Douglas Murray in the Spectator has written an article on Katie Lam's cadenza, dragging Enoch Powell into it.

    He's remarkably relaxed about it, reckoning it'll blow over in a bit...
    ...Er, no. He doesn't think that. Not even slightly. Have a look.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/imagine-what-enoch-powell-might-have-said/

    I'm guessing: if Enoch was alive now he'd utterly disown 'Rivers of Blood', not because it was too apocalyptic, but because it practically predicted a land of milk and honey compared to what transpired.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,359
    viewcode said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Foss said:

    dr_spyn said:

    About to celebrate a wake without drinks.

    https://x.com/WelshLabour/status/1981314672021119328

    I guess the weather will be to blame if Labour lose.

    I feel like I should be calling the police for a welfare check.
    I'm looking forward to Welsh Labour's first tweet after the Caerphilly result.
    • If Reform wins: "Conservatives and Plaid cannot win in Wales. Vote Labour!"
    • If Plaid wins: "Conservatives and Reform cannot win in Wales. Vote Labour!"
    • If Labour wins: "Our deal with Satan has yielded results and we weren't using our soul anyway. Vote Labour!"
    Heaven forbid it even lead to a Lib Dem bar chart or two.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,472
    Perfect dead cat for Trump....

    NBA player and mafia among 31 arrested in illegal gambling crackdown, FBI says
    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cz9j4dg2j0qt
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,069
    MattW said:

    It gets more complex. Reform and AI. Win one, lose one.

    The Devon Expenses One
    Incident number one:

    A Devon councillor at the centre of an election expenses row has been granted relief by a High Court judge who declared there had been “no bad faith”.

    Councillor Neil Stevens accepted in his official written court submission that “mistakes had been made” but that he was “truly sorry” for this, and that he would “never make this kind of mistake again”…

    In Cllr Neil Stevens’ written affidavit, he claimed that Cllr Hill had “underlined that in addition to his own experience and understanding of the rules, he had also checked his work using artificial intelligence, namely the widely used system, ChatGPT, with the result that this had confirmed his understanding of the rules”.

    The Decided on a drawing of lots, which the RefUK candidate challenged legally, one:
    Incident number two:

    Elizabeth Williams, who stood in the Littletons ward [Worcestershire] during this year’s county council elections, lost out after the result was decided by the drawing of lots…

    Ms Williams later launched a legal challenge against the outcome, but Mr Justice Martin Spencer ruled that her claim was submitted too late. The judge also reportedly criticised errors in her legal documents, noting that some cited legal precedents appeared to have been “an invention, indeed a hallucination, of AI.”

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/175798/ai-twice-blamed-in-reforms-election-law-problems/

    "Williams is now trying to raise £25,000 in total to pay the costs and legal fees associated with the case."

    Ouch. Though actually not too bad for the High Court, I suppose. FAFO applies when it comes to lawyering up.

    But she was complaining about the process itself, including it being filmed.

    'In her petition, Williams contended that, among other things, the process that decided the election "did not allow time for independent legal advice to be obtained when being pressured into accepting the process in principle".

    She also complained that the draw was recorded and live-streamed.

    Williams sought a range of declarations, including that Robson was not elected by a due process of law, "but by an equivalent of a 'toss of a coin' and therefore the election declaration be void", and that the secrecy of the ballot was compromised contrary to the Representation of the People Act 1983.'

    https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/governance/396-governance-news/62607-candidate-to-pay-thousands-in-costs-after-failed-election-petition-over-dead-heat
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,472
    Former Labour justice minister Shahid Malik helped to set up a fraudulent Covid testing firm that made £6.6 million in just three weeks, a court has heard.

    Malik, 57, is accused of establishing the 'cash cow' firm alongside a pharmacist, a registered scientist and his own former office manager.

    The former MP for Dewsbury is one of five people on trial over the 'inadequate and non-compliant' RT Diagnostics, which prosecutors say made £6.67 million in three weeks but did not meet UK standards.

    Malik, who was first elected in 2005 and served as a justice minister and communities minister in Gordon Brown's government before losing his seat in 2010, is accused of fraudulent trading, causing a public nuisance and money laundering.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15220685/Former-Labour-minister-Shahid-Malik-fraudulent-Covid-firm.html
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,834
    Andy_JS said:

    Mogg has apparently called for Tories to vote tactically for Reform in Caerphilly.

    There aren't any.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,125
    bondegezou said:

    FPT...

    viewcode said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    Nigelb said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    dixiedean said:

    Gallowgate said:

    Malmesbury said:

    On the immigration law ghastliness

    - a British Passport may help but isn’t 100% solid. Why?
    - The Home Sec. can withdraw citizenship from any “dual national”
    - From the Begum case, a dual national is someone who *is eligible* for another passport
    - Renouncing another nationality might well not be enough. Most countries that allow renunciation allow reacquiring citizenship.
    - So a future Home Sec. issues an order cancelling the citizenship of x hundred thousand people in one go.

    In Ancient Athens, the Thirty Tyrants used the cancellation of citizenship to get round a law on trials for citizens.

    It’s all been done before

    As a Jewish person theoretically eligible for an Israeli passport this precedent has always been a little worrying.
    Important to remember. If you have a grandparent or closer born on the island of Ireland you're eligible for citizenship, and can therefore be deported if this goes through.
    Theoretically.
    The way things are going I think anyone who has a connection to another country or has family that do should start to think about a plan B. Not as a baseline but as contingency planning. This country might be heading somewhere very dark. Hope for the best, plan for the worst.
    The Reform/Lam/Jenrick stuff removes for millions of people what was a previously barely perceptible thing (because it was never before questioned) - simply being secure in your own residence.
    Two of my children were born in the US and have American passports. My wife was born here but has a Sri Lankan passport. Her parents and brothers are naturalized British citizens. One sister in law is French with settled status. Another sister in law's parents are Indian. Which of us is actually fully secure here in the current climate?
    Has anybody checked Katie Lam/Robert Jenrick/Kemi Badenoch's extended family's heritage? The has to be at least one Conservative MP who will fall foul of this, whether personally or via a relative.

    And wasn't Boris Johnson born in the States?
    Johnson was born in the US and had US citizenship, but gave it up, so isn't currently eligible for US citizenship. Lam has one or two German Jewish grandparents: not enough for Germany citizenship, but enough for Israeli citizenship. Badenoch had a Nigerian passport, but says she has not renewed it for years... but presumably she remains entitled to Nigerian citizenship.
    Citizenship doesn’t actually require having a passport
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,925
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Mogg has apparently called for Tories to vote tactically for Reform in Caerphilly.

    Kiss of death I'd have thought.
    I was thinking that... PC will get a surge...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,988
    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!

    As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government

    I do not want Reform in power anywhere
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,610
    dr_spyn said:

    About to celebrate a wake without drinks.

    https://x.com/WelshLabour/status/1981314672021119328

    I guess the weather will be to blame if Labour lose.

    Obviously, we will listen to what the electorate are saying. Our voters stayed at home. The weather was bad. Low turnout. Referendum on local issues. Confident of success next year. Etc.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,811
    edited October 23
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    It gets more complex. Reform and AI. Win one, lose one.

    The Devon Expenses One
    Incident number one:

    A Devon councillor at the centre of an election expenses row has been granted relief by a High Court judge who declared there had been “no bad faith”.

    Councillor Neil Stevens accepted in his official written court submission that “mistakes had been made” but that he was “truly sorry” for this, and that he would “never make this kind of mistake again”…

    In Cllr Neil Stevens’ written affidavit, he claimed that Cllr Hill had “underlined that in addition to his own experience and understanding of the rules, he had also checked his work using artificial intelligence, namely the widely used system, ChatGPT, with the result that this had confirmed his understanding of the rules”.

    The Decided on a drawing of lots, which the RefUK candidate challenged legally, one:
    Incident number two:

    Elizabeth Williams, who stood in the Littletons ward [Worcestershire] during this year’s county council elections, lost out after the result was decided by the drawing of lots…

    Ms Williams later launched a legal challenge against the outcome, but Mr Justice Martin Spencer ruled that her claim was submitted too late. The judge also reportedly criticised errors in her legal documents, noting that some cited legal precedents appeared to have been “an invention, indeed a hallucination, of AI.”

    https://www.markpack.org.uk/175798/ai-twice-blamed-in-reforms-election-law-problems/

    "Williams is now trying to raise £25,000 in total to pay the costs and legal fees associated with the case."

    Ouch. Though actually not too bad for the High Court, I suppose. FAFO applies when it comes to lawyering up.

    But she was complaining about the process itself, including it being filmed.

    'In her petition, Williams contended that, among other things, the process that decided the election "did not allow time for independent legal advice to be obtained when being pressured into accepting the process in principle".

    She also complained that the draw was recorded and live-streamed.

    Williams sought a range of declarations, including that Robson was not elected by a due process of law, "but by an equivalent of a 'toss of a coin' and therefore the election declaration be void", and that the secrecy of the ballot was compromised contrary to the Representation of the People Act 1983.'

    https://www.localgovernmentlawyer.co.uk/governance/396-governance-news/62607-candidate-to-pay-thousands-in-costs-after-failed-election-petition-over-dead-heat
    When cases like this come up with a LIP (Litigant in Person) falling foul of the CPR rules (Civil Procedure Rules) the go-to case is the amusingly titled Barton v Wright Hassall.

    https://www.kbwchambers.com/no-special-treatment-for-lips-barton-v-wright-hassall
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,988
    SandyRentool said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Mogg has apparently called for Tories to vote tactically for Reform in Caerphilly.

    Hoping that the Tories lose their deposit to increase pressure on Kemi?
    The story will not be about the conservatives tomorrow or Kemi
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,472
    edited October 23
    Just heard two former international rugby players discussing why all the English players, even ones getting guaranteed contracts from England for £150k a year....Not only much higher wages, but apparently when you are talking earning £500-750k a year, add everything together you will pay less tax in France....France.....less tax.....in France....
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 244
    edited October 23
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!

    As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government

    I do not want Reform in power anywhere
    You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,472
    Carnyx said:

    More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

    #grumpy

    Did they hire the person behind Apple's Liquid Arse redesign?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,300
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    SandyRentool said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Mogg has apparently called for Tories to vote tactically for Reform in Caerphilly.

    Hoping that the Tories lose their deposit to increase pressure on Kemi?
    The story will not be about the conservatives tomorrow or Kemi
    It will be all about Reform. It always is these days.

    Your team's boy Mogg shilling for Reform may be a pointer for the future. I was never inclined to vote for the Tories, even less so now. I wouldn't touch your lot with theirs even if they had one.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,875
    Malmesbury said:

    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE.
    Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife.
    So. A GP can't but a teacher can?

    To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE.
    Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife.
    So. A GP can't but a teacher can?

    To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
    Training teachers to
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Sadly this means that Phillipson will be staying at DfE.
    Teachers to diagnose SEND in children is her latest barmy thought fart to a profession where quitting due to overwork is rife.
    So. A GP can't but a teacher can?

    To be fair, even if GPs could they wouldn't. And very often it is teachers making the first referrals.
    training teachers to spot various things for referral is sensible.

    At my youngest daughters private school, all the teachers did a course on the issues like ADHD, autism…. How to spot signs, suggest getting a professional opinion etc.
    The word private explains that.
    How long was the course? Who delivered it?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,069
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

    #grumpy

    Did they hire the person behind Apple's Liquid Arse redesign?
    *checks* - oh, so that's what a lot of us were complaining about the other week. No wonder.

    *contemplates how to make Win 11 emulate Win 10*
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,472
    Carnyx said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Carnyx said:

    More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

    #grumpy

    Did they hire the person behind Apple's Liquid Arse redesign?
    *checks* - oh, so that's what a lot of us were complaining about the other week. No wonder.

    *contemplates how to make Win 11 emulate Win 10*
    Not only looks shit, it drains the battery a lot faster !!!
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,681
    eek said:

    Gallowgate said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:

    'The Green Party's proposal for a wealth tax on 1% of assets above £10m and 2% on assets above £1bn comes top of our list of tax reforms that Britons would support, with 75% giving it their backing.

    93% of Green voters and 87% of Labour voters and 80% of LD voters back a wealth tax on the richest. Even 70% of Tory and 61% of Reform voters in favour

    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1981319728174928268
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/YouGov_-_Tax_reforms.pdf

    How much would it raise in the first year? I assume tax evasion/avoidance/put the Stubbs in the lorry would kick in from year 2 onwards.
    Yes, plenty of the rich affected would base themselves in Monaco, Switzerland, Dubai, Florida, the Bahamas, Singapore etc if such a tax came in
    They can’t take their Knightsbridge townhouses with them
    And so the wealth tax argument reaches it natural conclusion - the only part of wealth that can be easily taxed is land and property.

    And we simply don’t tax property efficiently or enough
    And it’s going to apply to far more people than just the so called super rich with ‘wealth’ in excess of £10 million.

    The super rich may not be able to take their townhouses with them but they can sell them off. They don’t need to own an asset that may be a liability.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,672
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!

    As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government

    I do not want Reform in power anywhere
    I think given a choice between the SNP and Reform I would vote for......... God knows but it wouldn't be either of them.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,123
    Carnyx said:

    More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

    #grumpy

    You can revert back to the old design, but only if you answer a question about why you prefer the old one.
    "The new design is shite" did the trick for me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,988
    ManOfGwent said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!

    As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government

    I do not want Reform in power anywhere
    You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
    Plaid are best placed to beat labour, and if labour are trounced as is possible, then the 2026 Senedd will see a Plaid First Minister rather than a Labour or Reform one

    I expect in reality a Plaid FM with a minority government as I just do not see the numbers for a reform - conservative coalition

    What is certain is uncertainty for a long time to come
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 35,300
    edited October 23
    ManOfGwent said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!

    As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government

    I do not want Reform in power anywhere
    You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
    The last time I voted Plaid in the Senedd they tried to nail together a rainbow coalition including UKIP and the Tories so I am not inclined their direction. However, if it's them or Reform next May, needs must.

    Labour, LD and Green voters need to vote Plaid this time out.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,473
    Northern_Al said:

    Carnyx said:

    More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

    #grumpy

    You can revert back to the old design, but only if you answer a question about why you prefer the old one.
    "The new design is shite" did the trick for me.
    You prefer sunni?
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,681
    Well at the last locals my choice was Reform or Indy and I went Indy as I didn’t want a Reform councillor and the big twit joined Reform !!

    Before he joined Reform he was active on social media, doing stuff for the ward and being generally helpful

    Now you never hear from him. Dont even see him dog walking anymore.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 46,069
    Northern_Al said:

    Carnyx said:

    More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

    #grumpy

    You can revert back to the old design, but only if you answer a question about why you prefer the old one.
    "The new design is shite" did the trick for me.
    The questionnaire that they offer as an alternative is actually geared to saying how much one loves it. E.g. there is a choice o a dozen or so descriptor words. Only two are at all negative - the rest are positive. Not allowed to write in 'shite', either. And it's very difficult to make a freehand comment too without effectively being made to say "I lurve the new design because it's shite".

    #even grumpier
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,390
    Stark_Dawning said:

    viewcode said:

    Douglas Murray in the Spectator has written an article on Katie Lam's cadenza, dragging Enoch Powell into it.

    He's remarkably relaxed about it, reckoning it'll blow over in a bit...
    ...Er, no. He doesn't think that. Not even slightly. Have a look.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/imagine-what-enoch-powell-might-have-said/

    I'm guessing: if Enoch was alive now he'd utterly disown 'Rivers of Blood', not because it was too apocalyptic, but because it practically predicted a land of milk and honey compared to what transpired.
    A very good Rest is History episode on EP. Plus worth listening to the Desert Island Discs.

    He was sacked not because of the content but because of the perceived incendiary language.

    Difficult not to like him I find myself shocked to write.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,867
    edited October 23
    Afternoon all.

    88 million Euros of jewels confirmed lost at the Louvre. Time to capitalise on the publicity, and online panther memes, and get Clouseau out of retirement for one more film. But who could match Selllers in that role now, I wonder.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,473
    Taz said:

    Well at the last locals my choice was Reform or Indy and I went Indy as I didn’t want a Reform councillor and the big twit joined Reform !!

    Before he joined Reform he was active on social media, doing stuff for the ward and being generally helpful

    Now you never hear from him. Dont even see him dog walking anymore.

    They eat the cats and dogs!
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,672
    Carnyx said:

    Northern_Al said:

    Carnyx said:

    More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

    #grumpy

    You can revert back to the old design, but only if you answer a question about why you prefer the old one.
    "The new design is shite" did the trick for me.
    The questionnaire that they offer as an alternative is actually geared to saying how much one loves it. E.g. there is a choice o a dozen or so descriptor words. Only two are at all negative - the rest are positive. Not allowed to write in 'shite', either. And it's very difficult to make a freehand comment too without effectively being made to say "I lurve the new design because it's shite".

    #even grumpier
    I think its called "consultation". The Scottish government are, of course, the true masters of the art.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,685
    Mexicanpete said:

    ManOfGwent said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    HYUFD said:

    SandyRentool said:

    FPT: It was great to get the insights of an Plaid Cymru voter on the last thread.

    Thank you @HYUFD

    I voted for 4 Tories on that Town Council ballot, I only voted for a Plaid candidate as there were 6 votes and he and another were the only other candidates to vote for and he had at least bothered to canvass our halls. I on principle always use every vote.

    If I lived in Caerphilly though today I would likely tactically vote Reform to try and beat Plaid
    We know your reason for voting Plaid but it is quite amusing and you do get teased !!!!!!!!!

    As someone living in Wales, and affected by the Senedd politicians, I would have no hesitation in voting Plaid to keep Reform out even if that means a Plaid First Minister and a confidence and supply Plaid minority government

    I do not want Reform in power anywhere
    You say you want rid of Labour in Wales, but Plaid will offer exactly the same policy platform with added grievance mongering. And in order to keep out nationalists, you'll vote for a different colour of nationalist. Apologies but I don't understand the basis of your arguments.
    The last time I voted Plaid in the Senedd they tried to nail together a rainbow coalition including UKIP and the Tories so I am not inclined their direction. However, if it's them or Reform next May, needs must.

    Labour, LD and Green voters need to vote Plaid this time out.
    When was that?

    2007 we had the rainbow coalition with the Lib Dems, that failed because the Lib Dems couldn't muster a majority for it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,690
    Carnyx said:

    More enshittification news. Met Office forecast pages have been redesigned to something like an accident with a bucket of blue poster paint in a kindergarten. With BIIIIIIG pictures of clouds etc and far less info.

    https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/

    #grumpy

    That's not enshittification.

    It looks like the redesign is intended to present a summary of the information first, to avoid information overload, and you can find more detail on something in particular if you want it. The intent is try to help users - whereas enshittification is purposely making something worse for users to increase profit.

    And it's only blue when the weather is. When the forecast is for rain the background changes - giving an immediate visual indication of the weather. I quite like that.

    Anyway, real weather nerds have a script that downloads the forecast data directly from the Met Office, so they can create your own charts. Which reminds me, I have to sort out the migration before they turn off DataPoint..
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,473
    WhisperingOracle said:

    Afternoon all.

    88 millions Euros of jewels confirmed lost at fhe Louvre. Time to capitalise on the publicity, and online panther memes, and ger Clouseau out of retirement for one more film. But who could match Selllers in that role now, I wonder.

    Have they checked Lupin's alibi, seems right up his street.
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