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Another parable of UK industry – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,731
edited 6:36AM in General
Another parable of UK industry – politicalbetting.com

Recall the GLP1 obesity drugs which are generating tens of billions every year ?Meet the British scientists who was one of those who first elucidated the biochemistry underlying them.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,107
    Morning all.
  • The_WoodpeckerThe_Woodpecker Posts: 515
    Good morning.

    What an interesting header. Thank you, @Nigelb
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,833
    A sad tale. What is to be done?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305
    FPT

    The Vodafone issue shows the importance of maintaining CASH.

    Nah, my phone has SIMs from EE, O2, and Three in it, so if one network goes down then I have two back ups.

    If you are pro cash then you are pro wanting children to get hurt.

    Decline of cash credited for drop in NHS surgery for children swallowing objects

    Figures reveal 29% fall in operations in England to remove foreign bodies from children’s airways, noses and throats


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/28/decline-of-cash-credited-for-drop-in-nhs-surgery-for-children-swallowing-objects
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,408

    FPT

    The Vodafone issue shows the importance of maintaining CASH.

    Nah, my phone has SIMs from EE, O2, and Three in it, so if one network goes down then I have two back ups.

    If you are pro cash then you are pro wanting children to get hurt.

    Decline of cash credited for drop in NHS surgery for children swallowing objects

    Figures reveal 29% fall in operations in England to remove foreign bodies from children’s airways, noses and throats


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/28/decline-of-cash-credited-for-drop-in-nhs-surgery-for-children-swallowing-objects
    That's how they learn.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,740
    Is there a reason why the US has to buy (import) its world leading science? Family member (PhD Neuroscience) when working with US teams felt they didn't really pull their weight. (n=1)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305
    edited 6:50AM
    I am really warming to Donald Trump.

    Boom time for immigration lawyers as US and UK tighten restrictions

    Legal firms on both sides of the Atlantic told the Financial Times that their practices were overwhelmed with enquiries after Donald Trump and Keir Starmer hardened policies https://on.ft.com/3KH6ELP
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,500
    Battlebus said:

    Is there a reason why the US has to buy (import) its world leading science? Family member (PhD Neuroscience) when working with US teams felt they didn't really pull their weight. (n=1)

    Well, now they have much less to pull...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,408
    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Nah, one thing the pandemic shows is that retailers can adapt, look how all the supermarkets scaled up their home deliveries at the end of March 2020/start of April 2020.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,408

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Nah, one thing the pandemic shows is that retailers can adapt, look how all the supermarkets scaled up their home deliveries at the end of March 2020/start of April 2020.
    No, scaling up home deliveries is different to a total breakdown of supply chains, trade and systems.

    That's only local distribution and vans for the last 5-10 miles. The trouble is sourcing and managing all the stock and then achieving JITD to all the distribution centres.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,330
    Happy Last Ever Patch Tuesday for Windows 10 users who have not sold their soul to Microsoft for an extra year of updates Day.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,599
    So not living off the fat of the land.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,500
    I take it everyone has heard the story of Head and Shoulders and how a Newcastle University Lecturer gave the secret ingrediant to Procter & Gamble down the pub...

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305

    Happy Last Ever Patch Tuesday for Windows 10 users who have not sold their soul to Microsoft for an extra year of updates Day.

    I laugh at you in Tahoe.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,500

    Happy Last Ever Patch Tuesday for Windows 10 users who have not sold their soul to Microsoft for an extra year of updates Day.

    I haven't sold my soul or switched to Windows 11 yet.

    I am at a loss to understand what Microsoft were thinking with this update. The computers I have tried with it on just don't work very well. Slow, badly laid out and not pleasant to look at.

    If they're trying to Ratner their brand they're doing a very good job, but it seems stupid.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305
    NEW: No bounce in the polls for Tories despite Kemi Badenoch's conference announcements, weekly YouGov voting intention poll for The Times/Sky News shows - while the Greens hit a record high

    RefUK 27% (=)
    LAB 20% (=)
    CON 17% (=)
    LDEM 16% (-1)
    GRN 13% (+1)


    https://x.com/MaxKendix/status/1977974187508600955
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,330

    I am really warming to Donald Trump.

    Boom time for immigration lawyers as US and UK tighten restrictions

    Legal firms on both sides of the Atlantic told the Financial Times that their practices were overwhelmed with enquiries after Donald Trump and Keir Starmer hardened policies https://on.ft.com/3KH6ELP

    The woman in the fish and chip shop is running out of visa. She has a degree in something or other but could not find a job in that field (assuming it was a field).

    This is the problem in Britain, America, India, perhaps everywhere. People are following the rules, the unwritten social contract, that you go to school, study hard and behave well, go off to university and then get a graduate job. But increasingly, in whichever country, the graduate jobs are not there, owing variously to automation or recession or just wait-and-see.

    And in a few months time, she will be shipped back to India and someone else will serve me fish and chips.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,486

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Nah, one thing the pandemic shows is that retailers can adapt, look how all the supermarkets scaled up their home deliveries at the end of March 2020/start of April 2020.
    If the supermarkets lost internet access, their tills would work just fine as they have a server on site.

    What wouldn’t work are local card payments and the stock control system, which would see the place empty in a couple of days.

    In that scenario, you want to have cash.

    Their home delivery servers *should* have at two different internet suppliers plus Starlink in the data centre, but getting the order data to the warehouses and then the delivery drivers could prove more problematic.

    Supermarkets and department stores really should look at Starlink backups at retail and warehouse locations, that’s the sort of thing their IT teams will be working through as a result of yesterday’s outage.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,197

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Nah, one thing the pandemic shows is that retailers can adapt, look how all the supermarkets scaled up their home deliveries at the end of March 2020/start of April 2020.
    Partly it's a problem of centralisation. If everywhere relies on the same system, one outage messes with everywhere.

    Partly it's a problem of Permanews. In Ye Olden Times, 1980 say, most of us would never have even heard that there was a problem until it had been solved. Now, we expect instant continuous updates.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,525
    Repeating from last night, as I think it’s worth doing!

    I’m back from a preview showing last night of “Mr Nobody Against Putin”, a fantastic documentary about the descent of Russia ever deeper into fascism and militarism. It was made by someone working at a school in a small and relatively remote Russian town, and he captured how all these instructions came from Moscow that the children must sing patriotic songs and be taught from a script about the evils of Ukraine and the West. Meanwhile, the school kids’ brothers are being conscripted, the school leavers face conscription. It’s a very personal film, a very touching film. They had to spirit the filmmaker out of Russia before they could release the film and he’s now been given asylum in Europe.

    I say a preview, but we weren’t watching it very early, as the film is now up on iPlayer, as of this morning. It’s also broadcast on BBC4 this evening.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,552

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Nah, one thing the pandemic shows is that retailers can adapt, look how all the supermarkets scaled up their home deliveries at the end of March 2020/start of April 2020.
    What the pandemic showed was that semi-skilled, low paid often immigrant workers are very often the key workers in a crisis.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,330

    Happy Last Ever Patch Tuesday for Windows 10 users who have not sold their soul to Microsoft for an extra year of updates Day.

    I laugh at you in Tahoe.
    You Mac users with your fancy, erm, Macs.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,292

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    I did a 5 day water fast recently and I didn’t die. Food absence for 48-72hrs isn’t a big deal, it would be a net benefit to the nation’s health actually.

    But agreed, a systematic malware attack on the big 4’s supply chain / payment systems would be a national emergency. Hopefully they are better protected than M&S and JLR.

    I would also roll out a strategic nutrition reserve. Public education to store long shelf life goods at home, and outsource the management of the rest to the supermarkets under government contract. Ideally we should get to a place where we could survive the embargo of food for 12-24 months. Quite a cheap insurance policy in the grand scheme of things.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,500
    Sandpit said:

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Nah, one thing the pandemic shows is that retailers can adapt, look how all the supermarkets scaled up their home deliveries at the end of March 2020/start of April 2020.
    If the supermarkets lost internet access, their tills would work just fine as they have a server on site.

    What wouldn’t work are local card payments and the stock control system, which would see the place empty in a couple of days.

    In that scenario, you want to have cash.

    Their home delivery servers *should* have at two different internet suppliers plus Starlink in the data centre, but getting the order data to the warehouses and then the delivery drivers could prove more problematic.

    Supermarkets and department stores really should look at Starlink backups at retail and warehouse locations, that’s the sort of thing their IT teams will be working through as a result of yesterday’s outage.
    It's annoying to say this but given that any land based backup route is going to follow the same path, Starlink is probably an essential backup connection...
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,107

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    The distribution system came very close to collapse following the Buncefield fire twenty years ago. Hopefully "lessons have been learned" - and implemented - in the intervening years.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,486
    edited 7:07AM
    ydoethur said:

    Happy Last Ever Patch Tuesday for Windows 10 users who have not sold their soul to Microsoft for an extra year of updates Day.

    I haven't sold my soul or switched to Windows 11 yet.

    I am at a loss to understand what Microsoft were thinking with this update. The computers I have tried with it on just don't work very well. Slow, badly laid out and not pleasant to look at.

    If they're trying to Ratner their brand they're doing a very good job, but it seems stupid.
    What they were thinking about, was primarily the advertising and telemetry, plus locking you into their cloud-based infrastructure.

    You’re not their customer for OEM sales of W11 Home.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,785
    Way off-topic:

    I had no idea the first ship with Flettner rotors was made 100 years ago.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1dqznvxylqo
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305
    Utter woke nonsense, this is an attack on free speech.

    Teacher struck off after she had 'conversations about orgasms and sex toys' with pupils

    Ms Kathryn Matthews has been banned from teaching


    https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/teacher-struck-after-conversations-orgasms-32670419.amp
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,198
    Microsoft have been shits for years. You end up stuck with Windows because your employer almost certainly requires it. But its *awful*. The joy of 5 years of running my own business is buying my own stuff. And despite having to integrate to various client systems from across Europe, MacOS works fine.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,107
    Even wayer off topic: I wonder if this thermal imaging of the face could be used instead of polygraphs? Or as part of police interviews?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj076ynnlpgo
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,445
    Pro_Rata said:

    A sad tale. What is to be done?

    Somehow re-engineer the City to think more long term. See endless books by Will Hutton on how this could be done for example.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,445
    eek said:

    I take it everyone has heard the story of Head and Shoulders and how a Newcastle University Lecturer gave the secret ingrediant to Procter & Gamble down the pub...

    Rings a vague memory bell.

    Although is it apocryphal?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293
    @Stuartinromford FPT

    On Starmer it doesn’t matter particularly - it was a slightly awkward moment, which is why I focused on Meloni’s reaction (it feels a bit mean to laugh at someone having an awkward moment).

    But if you want to be philosophical about it, Starmer behaved as if he was subservient to Trump. The British PM is not subservient to anyone (except the Monarch). Yes the US is much more powerful than us, but Starmer behaved in a manner unbecoming of his station.

    He should have nodded and stayed in place rather than raised his hand and stepped forward.

    But it will be forgotten by about 8.37 this morning
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,107

    Even wayer off topic: I wonder if this thermal imaging of the face could be used instead of polygraphs? Or as part of police interviews?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj076ynnlpgo

    No, polygraphs/lie detectors are bullshit.

    Stress doesn't imply guilt.

    Say you're an innocent being framed for a crime and you're facing 10 years behind bars you're going to get stressed.
    You're only saying that because you're guilty...
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,525

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    The UK grows about 85% of the wheat we eat, although bad harvests last year pushed that down a bit. We grow about 70-80% of our potatoes. Over the year (more in summer), we grow about 20% of our tomatoes. I think it’s well over 80% of our beef is grown domestically. It’s over two thirds of chickens. 40-50% of our pork. 85% of milk production. Over half of our sugar production. Nearly all of our salmon.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293
    System said:

    Another parable of UK industry – politicalbetting.com

    Recall the GLP1 obesity drugs which are generating tens of billions every year ?Meet the British scientists who was one of those who first elucidated the biochemistry underlying them.

    Read the full story here

    Worth remembering that the programme had languished for years because obesity was seen as a lifestyle disease (I first got to know it when Gerard Le Fur was working on Accomplia) without huge commercial potential.

    There are relatively small changes that could be made to encourage the biotech ecosystem in the UK, principally around strengthening the capital markets.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,486

    Happy Last Ever Patch Tuesday for Windows 10 users who have not sold their soul to Microsoft for an extra year of updates Day.

    I laugh at you in Tahoe.
    Come on, Tahoe is also a big fat stinking mess that should still be in beta.

    But at least we can be confident that Apple will fix it in the next couple of months.

    https://x.com/neogoose_btw/status/1968757466570621251
  • pm215pm215 Posts: 1,331

    Microsoft have been shits for years. You end up stuck with Windows because your employer almost certainly requires it. But its *awful*. The joy of 5 years of running my own business is buying my own stuff. And despite having to integrate to various client systems from across Europe, MacOS works fine.

    This is definitely something that has got better over the years -- the rise of the internet and of mobile means that the companies and systems you have to interact with are much more likely to give you a pdf or a web page than a Word document, and that "everyone runs windows" isn't the easy almost correct assumption it was in the 1990s. And the tools for handling Office docs on non MS platforms are better too.

    (I have managed generally to avoid having Windows at work by working in tech firms with a sufficiently large population of militant Linux users to require IT to permit it.)
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293
    eek said:

    I take it everyone has heard the story of Head and Shoulders and how a Newcastle University Lecturer gave the secret ingrediant to Procter & Gamble down the pub...

    No?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,500

    Even wayer off topic: I wonder if this thermal imaging of the face could be used instead of polygraphs? Or as part of police interviews?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj076ynnlpgo

    No, polygraphs/lie detectors are bullshit.

    Stress doesn't imply guilt.

    Say you're an innocent being framed for a crime and you're facing 10 years behind bars you're going to get stressed.
    Saved me from writing the same thing.

    My highest university mark was for an essay explaining why polygraphs are literally worthless as lie detectors.

    A calm liar looks innocent. A stressed innocent person looks guilty. The 'correct' rate of detection is the same as tossing a coin.
    So basically, people who rely on polygraph tests are tossers?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,785

    Microsoft have been shits for years. You end up stuck with Windows because your employer almost certainly requires it. But its *awful*. The joy of 5 years of running my own business is buying my own stuff. And despite having to integrate to various client systems from across Europe, MacOS works fine.

    Microsoft do an amazing job supporting a vast array of different hardware. This is much more difficult than supporting hardware that you design yourself, and control.

    Yes, they make some baffling business decisions. But don't underestimate the complexity of what they do, even with standards.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293

    I am really warming to Donald Trump.

    Boom time for immigration lawyers as US and UK tighten restrictions

    Legal firms on both sides of the Atlantic told the Financial Times that their practices were overwhelmed with enquiries after Donald Trump and Keir Starmer hardened policies https://on.ft.com/3KH6ELP

    The woman in the fish and chip shop is running out of visa. She has a degree in something or other but could not find a job in that field (assuming it was a field).

    This is the problem in Britain, America, India, perhaps everywhere. People are following the rules, the unwritten social contract, that you go to school, study hard and behave well, go off to university and then get a graduate job. But increasingly, in whichever country, the graduate jobs are not there, owing variously to automation or recession or just wait-and-see.

    And in a few months time, she will be shipped back to India and someone else will serve me fish and chips.
    And that sucks for her as an individual, but is it the wrong thing for society?

    She couldn’t find a role in her field. At best the next person with a degree in her field will be luckier?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,500

    eek said:

    I take it everyone has heard the story of Head and Shoulders and how a Newcastle University Lecturer gave the secret ingrediant to Procter & Gamble down the pub...

    No?
    Basically, the people who designed a new shampoo got rinsed.

    I'll get my coat...
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,453
    eek said:

    I take it everyone has heard the story of Head and Shoulders and how a Newcastle University Lecturer gave the secret ingrediant to Procter & Gamble down the pub...

    No and I won’t be alone

    Why not just post it for all to read 🤷‍♂️
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,525

    Even wayer off topic: I wonder if this thermal imaging of the face could be used instead of polygraphs? Or as part of police interviews?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj076ynnlpgo

    No, polygraphs/lie detectors are bullshit.

    Stress doesn't imply guilt.

    Say you're an innocent being framed for a crime and you're facing 10 years behind bars you're going to get stressed.
    Saved me from writing the same thing.

    My highest university mark was for an essay explaining why polygraphs are literally worthless as lie detectors.

    A calm liar looks innocent. A stressed innocent person looks guilty. The 'correct' rate of detection is the same as tossing a coin.
    And the man who invented them (sort of - he was building on earlier ideas) was into some kinky stuff and also invented Wonder Woman.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,991
    ydoethur said:

    Even wayer off topic: I wonder if this thermal imaging of the face could be used instead of polygraphs? Or as part of police interviews?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj076ynnlpgo

    No, polygraphs/lie detectors are bullshit.

    Stress doesn't imply guilt.

    Say you're an innocent being framed for a crime and you're facing 10 years behind bars you're going to get stressed.
    Saved me from writing the same thing.

    My highest university mark was for an essay explaining why polygraphs are literally worthless as lie detectors.

    A calm liar looks innocent. A stressed innocent person looks guilty. The 'correct' rate of detection is the same as tossing a coin.
    So basically, people who rely on polygraph tests are tossers?
    You might very well think that, I'm afraid I couldn't possibly comment.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,197

    Microsoft have been shits for years. You end up stuck with Windows because your employer almost certainly requires it. But its *awful*. The joy of 5 years of running my own business is buying my own stuff. And despite having to integrate to various client systems from across Europe, MacOS works fine.

    To adapt the line I use when talking about the business aspects of Applied Science,

    The purpose of a computer company isn't to make computers, it is to make profits.

    Nothing shameful about that. It's how capitalism works, it generally generates good things as byproducts and if you knows of a better hole, go to it.

    Which kind of links to the header. A deal that is not optimal for the nation (and there have been many of those over the years) but probably fits the risk-reward calculations of the scientists, university and buyer pretty well. I'm not sure if one can change that, or even if one should, really.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,785
    pm215 said:

    Microsoft have been shits for years. You end up stuck with Windows because your employer almost certainly requires it. But its *awful*. The joy of 5 years of running my own business is buying my own stuff. And despite having to integrate to various client systems from across Europe, MacOS works fine.

    This is definitely something that has got better over the years -- the rise of the internet and of mobile means that the companies and systems you have to interact with are much more likely to give you a pdf or a web page than a Word document, and that "everyone runs windows" isn't the easy almost correct assumption it was in the 1990s. And the tools for handling Office docs on non MS platforms are better too.

    (I have managed generally to avoid having Windows at work by working in tech firms with a sufficiently large population of militant Linux users to require IT to permit it.)
    PDFs are brilliant - at least when they're standards-compatible.

    Anyone serving webpages as a download for storage needs to be put against a wall and shot.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,061

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Agreed. I have started to stockpile some food and *gasp* cash just in case.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,525
    The UK is very good at innovation. We punch well above our weight in research. Yet successive governments keep effectively cutting university funding and introducing hostile policies.

    But innovation isn’t enough. Going from innovation to market is hard. Innovators may look to larger markets (US, EU), particularly in areas where regulation is complex (which it needs to be in pharma).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,486
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Nah, one thing the pandemic shows is that retailers can adapt, look how all the supermarkets scaled up their home deliveries at the end of March 2020/start of April 2020.
    If the supermarkets lost internet access, their tills would work just fine as they have a server on site.

    What wouldn’t work are local card payments and the stock control system, which would see the place empty in a couple of days.

    In that scenario, you want to have cash.

    Their home delivery servers *should* have at two different internet suppliers plus Starlink in the data centre, but getting the order data to the warehouses and then the delivery drivers could prove more problematic.

    Supermarkets and department stores really should look at Starlink backups at retail and warehouse locations, that’s the sort of thing their IT teams will be working through as a result of yesterday’s outage.
    It's annoying to say this but given that any land based backup route is going to follow the same path, Starlink is probably an essential backup connection...
    What’s annoying about it, unless your shop is in the middle of a big mall and you can’t find anywhere to stick the dish?

    Low-orbit satellite broadband is a game-changer for applications such as backup connections for critical infrastructure and large businesses. It’s a lot easier and cheaper to stick a dish on the roof, than to get a second fibre internet connection that doesn’t have a potential single point of failure with the primary.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 21,061
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Nah, one thing the pandemic shows is that retailers can adapt, look how all the supermarkets scaled up their home deliveries at the end of March 2020/start of April 2020.
    If the supermarkets lost internet access, their tills would work just fine as they have a server on site.

    What wouldn’t work are local card payments and the stock control system, which would see the place empty in a couple of days.

    In that scenario, you want to have cash.

    Their home delivery servers *should* have at two different internet suppliers plus Starlink in the data centre, but getting the order data to the warehouses and then the delivery drivers could prove more problematic.

    Supermarkets and department stores really should look at Starlink backups at retail and warehouse locations, that’s the sort of thing their IT teams will be working through as a result of yesterday’s outage.
    It's annoying to say this but given that any land based backup route is going to follow the same path, Starlink is probably an essential backup connection...
    What’s annoying about it, unless your shop is in the middle of a big mall and you can’t find anywhere to stick the dish?

    Low-orbit satellite broadband is a game-changer for applications such as backup connections for critical infrastructure and large businesses. It’s a lot easier and cheaper to stick a dish on the roof, than to get a second fibre internet connection that doesn’t have a potential single point of failure with the primary.
    It’s annoying because it’s owned by Elon Musk
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,107

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    The UK grows about 85% of the wheat we eat, although bad harvests last year pushed that down a bit. We grow about 70-80% of our potatoes. Over the year (more in summer), we grow about 20% of our tomatoes. I think it’s well over 80% of our beef is grown domestically. It’s over two thirds of chickens. 40-50% of our pork. 85% of milk production. Over half of our sugar production. Nearly all of our salmon.
    M&S were recently selling sockeye salmon.

    Which has to be better for you than the farmed Scottish muck. May as well eat a bag of random chemicals.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,068
    edited 7:37AM

    Pro_Rata said:

    A sad tale. What is to be done?

    Somehow re-engineer the City to think more long term. See endless books by Will Hutton on how this could be done for example.
    Stuff like pensions regulation effectively means a lot of that capital can't go to funding long term growth.

    New public company listings in London have also cratered.
    In 2005, there were 190 IPOs on the London stock exchange; last year there were 19.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,493

    On topic, we should be a defence and pharma/medical superpower.

    As part of the EU
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,493

    Happy Last Ever Patch Tuesday for Windows 10 users who have not sold their soul to Microsoft for an extra year of updates Day.

    I laugh at you in Tahoe.
    Tahoe was out for a whole week before they patched it...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,970
    Nice threader @Nigelb

    And a rum do, indeed
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,516

    The UK is very good at innovation. We punch well above our weight in research. Yet successive governments keep effectively cutting university funding and introducing hostile policies.

    But innovation isn’t enough. Going from innovation to market is hard. Innovators may look to larger markets (US, EU), particularly in areas where regulation is complex (which it needs to be in pharma).

    What we need to be better at is helping innovative companies go to market in the US early in their product cycle.

    The UK market is simply too small to create the scale needed to compete on a global basis. The European single market was of course an attempt to counter that closer to home, but even then in many areas differences in language or other standards mean scalability is difficult.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,924
    Millions of Brits unempl

    I am really warming to Donald Trump.

    Boom time for immigration lawyers as US and UK tighten restrictions

    Legal firms on both sides of the Atlantic told the Financial Times that their practices were overwhelmed with enquiries after Donald Trump and Keir Starmer hardened policies https://on.ft.com/3KH6ELP

    The woman in the fish and chip shop is running out of visa. She has a degree in something or other but could not find a job in that field (assuming it was a field).

    This is the problem in Britain, America, India, perhaps everywhere. People are following the rules, the unwritten social contract, that you go to school, study hard and behave well, go off to university and then get a graduate job. But increasingly, in whichever country, the graduate jobs are not there, owing variously to automation or recession or just wait-and-see.

    And in a few months time, she will be shipped back to India and someone else will serve me fish and chips.
    Millions of Brits unemployed or on benefits yet the chippie is hiring a migrant on a visa. Something is broken.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,486

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Correct, JIT stock management is great when it works, but can break down quickly when it goes wrong.

    Surely we all learned during the pandemic that keeping a cupboard full of canned food and a few extra rolls of toilet paper was a good idea, as things can get pretty crazy very quickly?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 33,330

    I am really warming to Donald Trump.

    Boom time for immigration lawyers as US and UK tighten restrictions

    Legal firms on both sides of the Atlantic told the Financial Times that their practices were overwhelmed with enquiries after Donald Trump and Keir Starmer hardened policies https://on.ft.com/3KH6ELP

    The woman in the fish and chip shop is running out of visa. She has a degree in something or other but could not find a job in that field (assuming it was a field).

    This is the problem in Britain, America, India, perhaps everywhere. People are following the rules, the unwritten social contract, that you go to school, study hard and behave well, go off to university and then get a graduate job. But increasingly, in whichever country, the graduate jobs are not there, owing variously to automation or recession or just wait-and-see.

    And in a few months time, she will be shipped back to India and someone else will serve me fish and chips.
    And that sucks for her as an individual, but is it the wrong thing for society?

    She couldn’t find a role in her field. At best the next person with a degree in her field will be luckier?
    It's not just her – that's the problem. It's everyone. Even the doctors who can't find jobs while we have a shortage of doctors.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293

    Pro_Rata said:

    A sad tale. What is to be done?

    Somehow re-engineer the City to think more long term. See endless books by Will Hutton on how this could be done for example.
    Eliminate the regulations that force them to buy uk government debt
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,068
    Leon said:

    Nice threader @Nigelb

    And a rum do, indeed

    It's somewhat incomplete, as the comments ("what's to be done" etc) suggest, but I thought I'd better post it rather than let it lie around to be finished (I'm a dreadful procrastinator when it comes to completing stuff).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305
    ydoethur said:

    Even wayer off topic: I wonder if this thermal imaging of the face could be used instead of polygraphs? Or as part of police interviews?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj076ynnlpgo

    No, polygraphs/lie detectors are bullshit.

    Stress doesn't imply guilt.

    Say you're an innocent being framed for a crime and you're facing 10 years behind bars you're going to get stressed.
    Saved me from writing the same thing.

    My highest university mark was for an essay explaining why polygraphs are literally worthless as lie detectors.

    A calm liar looks innocent. A stressed innocent person looks guilty. The 'correct' rate of detection is the same as tossing a coin.
    So basically, people who rely on polygraph tests are tossers?
    See Jeremy Kyle as the perfect example.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,516

    FPT

    The Vodafone issue shows the importance of maintaining CASH.

    Nah, my phone has SIMs from EE, O2, and Three in it, so if one network goes down then I have two back ups.

    If you are pro cash then you are pro wanting children to get hurt.

    Decline of cash credited for drop in NHS surgery for children swallowing objects

    Figures reveal 29% fall in operations in England to remove foreign bodies from children’s airways, noses and throats


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/28/decline-of-cash-credited-for-drop-in-nhs-surgery-for-children-swallowing-objects
    Can I ask you how you’re getting on with your iPhone 17? An ex employer had a contact for cheap iPhones which he would supply to us gratis when I worked for him. He offered me a new 17 in sealed box at a VERY good price but it seems totally unwilling to talk to my old phone or iCloud to transfer data etc. Doing a Google search it seems to be an occasional issue.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,924

    Pro_Rata said:

    A sad tale. What is to be done?

    Somehow re-engineer the City to think more long term. See endless books by Will Hutton on how this could be done for example.
    Eliminate the regulations that force them to buy uk government debt
    Don't they just buy treasuries then?

    It's a risk appetite issue.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,198

    Microsoft have been shits for years. You end up stuck with Windows because your employer almost certainly requires it. But its *awful*. The joy of 5 years of running my own business is buying my own stuff. And despite having to integrate to various client systems from across Europe, MacOS works fine.

    Microsoft do an amazing job supporting a vast array of different hardware. This is much more difficult than supporting hardware that you design yourself, and control.

    Yes, they make some baffling business decisions. But don't underestimate the complexity of what they do, even with standards.
    Mmmm. Whatever the reason, running Windows means losing time dealing with random x has stopped working y has stopped loading issues. Having to look up endless error codes when that software won't install. Trying fix after fix after fix to make it work.

    Then you give up, buy a Mac and never look back. And I write this as someone who was very negative about Apple for a long time.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,970
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nice threader @Nigelb

    And a rum do, indeed

    It's somewhat incomplete, as the comments ("what's to be done" etc) suggest, but I thought I'd better post it rather than let it lie around to be finished (I'm a dreadful procrastinator when it comes to completing stuff).
    No, it’s good. You made your point. Always have one good strong point, and get it across. Concisely and articulately. That’s it!

    👍🍾
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,547

    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    Nah, one thing the pandemic shows is that retailers can adapt, look how all the supermarkets scaled up their home deliveries at the end of March 2020/start of April 2020.
    If the supermarkets lost internet access, their tills would work just fine as they have a server on site.

    What wouldn’t work are local card payments and the stock control system, which would see the place empty in a couple of days.

    In that scenario, you want to have cash.

    Their home delivery servers *should* have at two different internet suppliers plus Starlink in the data centre, but getting the order data to the warehouses and then the delivery drivers could prove more problematic.

    Supermarkets and department stores really should look at Starlink backups at retail and warehouse locations, that’s the sort of thing their IT teams will be working through as a result of yesterday’s outage.
    It's annoying to say this but given that any land based backup route is going to follow the same path, Starlink is probably an essential backup connection...
    What’s annoying about it, unless your shop is in the middle of a big mall and you can’t find anywhere to stick the dish?

    Low-orbit satellite broadband is a game-changer for applications such as backup connections for critical infrastructure and large businesses. It’s a lot easier and cheaper to stick a dish on the roof, than to get a second fibre internet connection that doesn’t have a potential single point of failure with the primary.
    It’s annoying because it’s owned by Elon Musk
    Despite that, I know that increasing numbers of banks etc have signed up for high capacity “industrial” strength version (Gb of upload and download) as a live backup for internet connectivity.

    So they combine it with their fibre connection - I’m ordinary operation they prioritise low latency, so nearly everything goes via fibre. If the land system goes out, barely miss a beat.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,602

    Pro_Rata said:

    A sad tale. What is to be done?

    Somehow re-engineer the City to think more long term. See endless books by Will Hutton on how this could be done for example.
    Eliminate the regulations that force them to buy uk government debt
    Would an offsetting rule work? So for every unit/% of innovative/start-up (or whatever we need to boost ) the City invests in they are exempt from 2 units/% of gov debt so frees up the City to buy more freely and ensures some of that freedom goes to the sort of business we want them to support. A 1-1 might be better but was just an initial thought (and “though” aggrandises it more than it deserves).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305

    FPT

    The Vodafone issue shows the importance of maintaining CASH.

    Nah, my phone has SIMs from EE, O2, and Three in it, so if one network goes down then I have two back ups.

    If you are pro cash then you are pro wanting children to get hurt.

    Decline of cash credited for drop in NHS surgery for children swallowing objects

    Figures reveal 29% fall in operations in England to remove foreign bodies from children’s airways, noses and throats


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/28/decline-of-cash-credited-for-drop-in-nhs-surgery-for-children-swallowing-objects
    Can I ask you how you’re getting on with your iPhone 17? An ex employer had a contact for cheap iPhones which he would supply to us gratis when I worked for him. He offered me a new 17 in sealed box at a VERY good price but it seems totally unwilling to talk to my old phone or iCloud to transfer data etc. Doing a Google search it seems to be an occasional issue.
    The battery life on the 17 Pro Max is a massive upgrade alone but all the other incremental upgrades are worth it.

    As for the data transfer issue, if you can go to a friend’s home and use their WiFi or go to a nearby Apple Store you can do the transfer there.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,880
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nice threader @Nigelb

    And a rum do, indeed

    It's somewhat incomplete, as the comments ("what's to be done" etc) suggest, but I thought I'd better post it rather than let it lie around to be finished (I'm a dreadful procrastinator when it comes to completing stuff).
    I’ve had this as a policy for many years: Never put off until tomorrow what you can put off until the day after!

    And Good Morning one and all!
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,516
    Regarding migration: what if had a market-based system rather than a points-based or qualifying criteria system?

    Determine how many migrants we think is sustainable per month and create that many spaces, plus or minus some range.

    Where there are more than that many qualifying applications, have agreed tie-break criteria. Highest salary, for example.

    It could be sub-divided into sectors, e.g. university places, work visas etc.

    Needs more thought. But the principle is that stable, sustainable migration levels are better for society than volatile and sometimes very high levels of migration.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,894
    Sandpit said:

    Happy Last Ever Patch Tuesday for Windows 10 users who have not sold their soul to Microsoft for an extra year of updates Day.

    In a world where computers now regularly last for 5-8 years without too much trouble in domestic environments, this probably goes down as one of Microsoft’s worst decisions of all time.

    When they launched W10, the idea was that it would be basically the last Windows O/S, with everything afterwards just being updates.

    W11 added little new apart from adverts, telemetry, and forcing Microsoft Account on everyone. It’s purely a commercial decision to get rid of W10, at the cost of hundreds of millions of computers. The sort of thing that antitrust regulators should be all over.
    FPT: Most interesting. IIRC 'Which' reckon that about a quarter of Win 10 users didn't plan to do anything at all - I assume because many didn't really know what was going on or what was what.

    My own experience is that intelligent but non-nerdy and busy friends were quite startled when I checked round them last week - one only just managed to get the free one year update.

    I can't help wondering if this is going to be a major scandal from the point of view of IT security.

    Anyway, have finished going through all our own computers for scrapping or updating or returning to work. Off to the shop this week to get my new desktop (the old one having done eight years and the monitor about 15 so not too upset). Which has reminded me of my Microsoft Surface Book PC (type 1) bought a decade ago. Because of my frustration when the battery failed in 2-3 years. Meh, except that the battery is glued in. Not user replaceable, without a very high risk of breaking the screen, motherboard and/or battery. Nowhere in Edinburgh would touch it. So an excellent bit of kit became so much junk. And I can't get the hard drive out of it either, for percussive memory erasure (aka my hammer). So I need to take it to the shop for the drive to be nuked and then scrapped (probably just making the rubble bounce, as Win 10 does have some sort of an erasure facility, which I used, but just to be sure ...).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305
    Vodafone have spoken.

    “On Monday afternoon, for a short time, the Vodafone network had an issue affecting broadband, 4G and 5G services. This was triggered by a non-malicious software issue with one of our vendor partners which has now been resolved, and the network has fully recovered. We apologise for any inconvenience this caused our customers.”
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,198

    FPT

    The Vodafone issue shows the importance of maintaining CASH.

    Nah, my phone has SIMs from EE, O2, and Three in it, so if one network goes down then I have two back ups.

    If you are pro cash then you are pro wanting children to get hurt.

    Decline of cash credited for drop in NHS surgery for children swallowing objects

    Figures reveal 29% fall in operations in England to remove foreign bodies from children’s airways, noses and throats


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/28/decline-of-cash-credited-for-drop-in-nhs-surgery-for-children-swallowing-objects
    Can I ask you how you’re getting on with your iPhone 17? An ex employer had a contact for cheap iPhones which he would supply to us gratis when I worked for him. He offered me a new 17 in sealed box at a VERY good price but it seems totally unwilling to talk to my old phone or iCloud to transfer data etc. Doing a Google search it seems to be an occasional issue.
    The battery life on the 17 Pro Max is a massive upgrade alone but all the other incremental upgrades are worth it.

    As for the data transfer issue, if you can go to a friend’s home and use their WiFi or go to a nearby Apple Store you can do the transfer there.
    I am meh on the design, but contemplating an upgrade from the 15 Pro Max whilst I can still get nearly £500 of trade in for it. The improved cameras are the thing - I shoot an awful lot of video on the thing and a fair bit of that is off the selfie camera...
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    The UK grows about 85% of the wheat we eat, although bad harvests last year pushed that down a bit. We grow about 70-80% of our potatoes. Over the year (more in summer), we grow about 20% of our tomatoes. I think it’s well over 80% of our beef is grown domestically. It’s over two thirds of chickens. 40-50% of our pork. 85% of milk production. Over half of our sugar production. Nearly all of our salmon.
    M&S were recently selling sockeye salmon.

    Which has to be better for you than the farmed Scottish muck. May as well eat a bag of random chemicals.
    Not if it’s farmed sockeye.

    You should read Salmon Wars
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,486
    edited 8:06AM

    Vodafone have spoken.

    “On Monday afternoon, for a short time, the Vodafone network had an issue affecting broadband, 4G and 5G services. This was triggered by a non-malicious software issue with one of our vendor partners which has now been resolved, and the network has fully recovered. We apologise for any inconvenience this caused our customers.”

    That means their DNS got changed, or their primary domain expired.

    A massive fcukup from their IT department, pleased I’m not their CIO this morning.

    https://x.com/bushidotoken/status/1977750768611422528

    https://x.com/cloudflareradar/status/1977750171199918572
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,292
    Leon said:

    Nice threader @Nigelb

    And a rum do, indeed

    The header could be read along with the Nobel committee's summary of Mokyr's work to understand the changing symbiotic relationship between science and technology which is the fount of economic growth. In the modern world the USA has replaced the UK of the industrial revolution as the locus of change pushing the production possibilities frontier outwards. But other nations (now including the UK, China etc) will catch up, just as other countries caught up with the UK after our industrial revolution
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,516

    FPT

    The Vodafone issue shows the importance of maintaining CASH.

    Nah, my phone has SIMs from EE, O2, and Three in it, so if one network goes down then I have two back ups.

    If you are pro cash then you are pro wanting children to get hurt.

    Decline of cash credited for drop in NHS surgery for children swallowing objects

    Figures reveal 29% fall in operations in England to remove foreign bodies from children’s airways, noses and throats


    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/mar/28/decline-of-cash-credited-for-drop-in-nhs-surgery-for-children-swallowing-objects
    Can I ask you how you’re getting on with your iPhone 17? An ex employer had a contact for cheap iPhones which he would supply to us gratis when I worked for him. He offered me a new 17 in sealed box at a VERY good price but it seems totally unwilling to talk to my old phone or iCloud to transfer data etc. Doing a Google search it seems to be an occasional issue.
    The battery life on the 17 Pro Max is a massive upgrade alone but all the other incremental upgrades are worth it.

    As for the data transfer issue, if you can go to a friend’s home and use their WiFi or go to a nearby Apple Store you can do the transfer there.
    Ta.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,500

    Vodafone have spoken.

    “On Monday afternoon, for a short time, the Vodafone network had an issue affecting broadband, 4G and 5G services. This was triggered by a non-malicious software issue with one of our vendor partners which has now been resolved, and the network has fully recovered. We apologise for any inconvenience this caused our customers.”

    Oh, well, a massive service outage was caused by software that wasn't malicious. That's good, I'd hate to think they meant it.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,970
    edited 8:06AM

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    The UK grows about 85% of the wheat we eat, although bad harvests last year pushed that down a bit. We grow about 70-80% of our potatoes. Over the year (more in summer), we grow about 20% of our tomatoes. I think it’s well over 80% of our beef is grown domestically. It’s over two thirds of chickens. 40-50% of our pork. 85% of milk production. Over half of our sugar production. Nearly all of our salmon.
    M&S were recently selling sockeye salmon.

    Which has to be better for you than the farmed Scottish muck. May as well eat a bag of random chemicals.
    Not if it’s farmed sockeye.

    You should read Salmon Wars
    In Bulgaria recently I met an American gourmet who, at one point, lived in Alaska for ten years. He explained that farmed Atlantic salmon - especially Scottish - is much nicer and tastier than wild Alaskan salmon, because it is fattier and sweeter. He also dismissed the health worries (and before retirement he was a biologist)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,305
    Sandpit said:

    Vodafone have spoken.

    “On Monday afternoon, for a short time, the Vodafone network had an issue affecting broadband, 4G and 5G services. This was triggered by a non-malicious software issue with one of our vendor partners which has now been resolved, and the network has fully recovered. We apologise for any inconvenience this caused our customers.”

    That means their DNS got changed, or their primary domain expired.

    A massive fcukup from their IT department, pleased I’m not their CIO this morning.

    https://x.com/bushidotoken/status/1977750768611422528

    https://x.com/cloudflareradar/status/1977750171199918572
    At present what we do know is that, for a few hours yesterday, Vodafone effectively stopped advertising that it existed to the internet by removing themselves from the Border Gateway Protocol (BGP). The BGP system is a protocol that helps to link the internet together by exchanging routing information with Autonomous Systems (AS), such as those run by your ISP (each provider will have many peers and routes to send data).

    Networks around the world need to talk to each other in order to do peering and determine which routes are the best ones for them to send their data, which is what BGP facilitates. The BGP is normally one of those things that works seamlessly in the background, but problems can occur due to issues such as a misconfiguration by a network provider, traffic hijacking and the failure of critical systems within an ISP.

    We don’t currently know exactly what caused Vodafone to unpublish their routes from the BGP, although the operator did confirm to some other news media that it wasn’t related to a cyberattack. The most likely explanation seems to be a misconfiguration of some sort, but we’re speculating.

    Vodafone don’t only provide consumer and normal business connectivity, they also have a wholesale / Ethernet side, and this is why some other ISPs reported disruption at the same time (interconnectivity was disrupted too).


    https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2025/10/vodafone-uk-suffering-major-outage-of-data-connectivity.html
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 82,068
    MaxPB said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    A sad tale. What is to be done?

    Somehow re-engineer the City to think more long term. See endless books by Will Hutton on how this could be done for example.
    Eliminate the regulations that force them to buy uk government debt
    Don't they just buy treasuries then?

    It's a risk appetite issue.
    UK pension funds used to hold a far higher proportion of equities until the regulations forced them to hold much more "safe" government bonds,

    Which amounts effectively to a tax on pensions - and UK growth prospects.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293

    I am really warming to Donald Trump.

    Boom time for immigration lawyers as US and UK tighten restrictions

    Legal firms on both sides of the Atlantic told the Financial Times that their practices were overwhelmed with enquiries after Donald Trump and Keir Starmer hardened policies https://on.ft.com/3KH6ELP

    The woman in the fish and chip shop is running out of visa. She has a degree in something or other but could not find a job in that field (assuming it was a field).

    This is the problem in Britain, America, India, perhaps everywhere. People are following the rules, the unwritten social contract, that you go to school, study hard and behave well, go off to university and then get a graduate job. But increasingly, in whichever country, the graduate jobs are not there, owing variously to automation or recession or just wait-and-see.

    And in a few months time, she will be shipped back to India and someone else will serve me fish and chips.
    And that sucks for her as an individual, but is it the wrong thing for society?

    She couldn’t find a role in her field. At best the next person with a degree in her field will be luckier?
    It's not just her – that's the problem. It's everyone. Even the doctors who can't find jobs while we have a shortage of doctors.
    I don’t buy the “can’t” find jobs.

    If you said “won’t take a job at the salary offered” or “won’t move to a rural GP practice” then that’s something practical.

    If there are jobs available and there are people who want to do the jobs then where does the “can’t” come from?
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293
    MaxPB said:

    Pro_Rata said:

    A sad tale. What is to be done?

    Somehow re-engineer the City to think more long term. See endless books by Will Hutton on how this could be done for example.
    Eliminate the regulations that force them to buy uk government debt
    Don't they just buy treasuries then?

    It's a risk appetite issue.
    Much more complicated that that.

    Part of it is longevity matching, part of it regulation, a lot of it is deskilling (equity investors have found it very tough over the last 15 years so the senior guys aren’t really equity investors), part of it is international diversification etc
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,486
    edited 8:12AM

    Sandpit said:

    Vodafone have spoken.

    “On Monday afternoon, for a short time, the Vodafone network had an issue affecting broadband, 4G and 5G services. This was triggered by a non-malicious software issue with one of our vendor partners which has now been resolved, and the network has fully recovered. We apologise for any inconvenience this caused our customers.”

    That means their DNS got changed, or their primary domain expired.

    A massive fcukup from their IT department, pleased I’m not their CIO this morning.

    https://x.com/bushidotoken/status/1977750768611422528

    https://x.com/cloudflareradar/status/1977750171199918572
    At present what we do know is that, for a few hours yesterday, Vodafone effectively stopped advertising that it existed to the internet by removing themselves from the Border Gateway Protocol (BGP). The BGP system is a protocol that helps to link the internet together by exchanging routing information with Autonomous Systems (AS), such as those run by your ISP (each provider will have many peers and routes to send data).

    Networks around the world need to talk to each other in order to do peering and determine which routes are the best ones for them to send their data, which is what BGP facilitates. The BGP is normally one of those things that works seamlessly in the background, but problems can occur due to issues such as a misconfiguration by a network provider, traffic hijacking and the failure of critical systems within an ISP.

    We don’t currently know exactly what caused Vodafone to unpublish their routes from the BGP, although the operator did confirm to some other news media that it wasn’t related to a cyberattack. The most likely explanation seems to be a misconfiguration of some sort, but we’re speculating.

    Vodafone don’t only provide consumer and normal business connectivity, they also have a wholesale / Ethernet side, and this is why some other ISPs reported disruption at the same time (interconnectivity was disrupted too).


    https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2025/10/vodafone-uk-suffering-major-outage-of-data-connectivity.html
    Someone, probably a very senior network engineer to have that level of access, is going to be turning up to work this morning with a resignation letter in their pocket having had no sleep last night.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,486

    I am really warming to Donald Trump.

    Boom time for immigration lawyers as US and UK tighten restrictions

    Legal firms on both sides of the Atlantic told the Financial Times that their practices were overwhelmed with enquiries after Donald Trump and Keir Starmer hardened policies https://on.ft.com/3KH6ELP

    The woman in the fish and chip shop is running out of visa. She has a degree in something or other but could not find a job in that field (assuming it was a field).

    This is the problem in Britain, America, India, perhaps everywhere. People are following the rules, the unwritten social contract, that you go to school, study hard and behave well, go off to university and then get a graduate job. But increasingly, in whichever country, the graduate jobs are not there, owing variously to automation or recession or just wait-and-see.

    And in a few months time, she will be shipped back to India and someone else will serve me fish and chips.
    And that sucks for her as an individual, but is it the wrong thing for society?

    She couldn’t find a role in her field. At best the next person with a degree in her field will be luckier?
    It's not just her – that's the problem. It's everyone. Even the doctors who can't find jobs while we have a shortage of doctors.
    I don’t buy the “can’t” find jobs.

    If you said “won’t take a job at the salary offered” or “won’t move to a rural GP practice” then that’s something practical.

    If there are jobs available and there are people who want to do the jobs then where does the “can’t” come from?
    Isn’t the issue there with the number of NHS training places for junior doctors, which don’t line up with the number of university medicine graduates?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,894
    edited 8:15AM
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/oct/14/millions-more-homes-in-great-britain-at-risk-of-flooding-investigation-finds

    Intderesting if depressing study by Aviva on flood risk, with some surprises - e.g. East Bournemouth becoming a major future concern thanks to surface water runoff (it's not just high tides and engorged rivers). The linked report on the impact on Tenbury Wells is also interesting (and sad).
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293
    Leon said:

    FPT - I think UK supply chains and trading systems are highly efficient, but fragile.

    The whole system probably goes down with stock and food unavailable inside 48-72 hours with any major disruption. Leading to civil disorder.

    There's no resilience since no-one grows, stores or cooks anything anymore. So we'd go hungry very quickly.

    The UK grows about 85% of the wheat we eat, although bad harvests last year pushed that down a bit. We grow about 70-80% of our potatoes. Over the year (more in summer), we grow about 20% of our tomatoes. I think it’s well over 80% of our beef is grown domestically. It’s over two thirds of chickens. 40-50% of our pork. 85% of milk production. Over half of our sugar production. Nearly all of our salmon.
    M&S were recently selling sockeye salmon.

    Which has to be better for you than the farmed Scottish muck. May as well eat a bag of random chemicals.
    Not if it’s farmed sockeye.

    You should read Salmon Wars
    In Bulgaria recently I met an American gourmet who, at one point, lived in Alaska for ten years. He explained that farmed Atlantic salmon - especially Scottish - is much nicer and tastier than wild Alaskan salmon, because it is fattier and sweeter. He also dismissed the health worries (and before retirement he was a biologist)
    The health issues are to do with environmental damage. I prefer the taste of Atlantic salmon to chinook or sockeye but always prefer wild caught to farmed.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,248

    I am really warming to Donald Trump.

    Boom time for immigration lawyers as US and UK tighten restrictions

    Legal firms on both sides of the Atlantic told the Financial Times that their practices were overwhelmed with enquiries after Donald Trump and Keir Starmer hardened policies https://on.ft.com/3KH6ELP

    The woman in the fish and chip shop is running out of visa. She has a degree in something or other but could not find a job in that field (assuming it was a field).

    This is the problem in Britain, America, India, perhaps everywhere. People are following the rules, the unwritten social contract, that you go to school, study hard and behave well, go off to university and then get a graduate job. But increasingly, in whichever country, the graduate jobs are not there, owing variously to automation or recession or just wait-and-see.

    And in a few months time, she will be shipped back to India and someone else will serve me fish and chips.
    And that sucks for her as an individual, but is it the wrong thing for society?

    She couldn’t find a role in her field. At best the next person with a degree in her field will be luckier?
    It's not just her – that's the problem. It's everyone. Even the doctors who can't find jobs while we have a shortage of doctors.
    I don’t buy the “can’t” find jobs.

    If you said “won’t take a job at the salary offered” or “won’t move to a rural GP practice” then that’s something practical.

    If there are jobs available and there are people who want to do the jobs then where does the “can’t” come from?
    You are assuming Doctor and GP are the same thing. They aren't. My wife was a chemical pathologist. Only a handful of jobs come up at any one time with competition for them. You can't just move from one speciality to another at the drop of a hat. She couldn't just move to be a GP. Doctors are fortunate. It generally isn't a problem, but it also isn't straightforward.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 11,293
    Sandpit said:

    I am really warming to Donald Trump.

    Boom time for immigration lawyers as US and UK tighten restrictions

    Legal firms on both sides of the Atlantic told the Financial Times that their practices were overwhelmed with enquiries after Donald Trump and Keir Starmer hardened policies https://on.ft.com/3KH6ELP

    The woman in the fish and chip shop is running out of visa. She has a degree in something or other but could not find a job in that field (assuming it was a field).

    This is the problem in Britain, America, India, perhaps everywhere. People are following the rules, the unwritten social contract, that you go to school, study hard and behave well, go off to university and then get a graduate job. But increasingly, in whichever country, the graduate jobs are not there, owing variously to automation or recession or just wait-and-see.

    And in a few months time, she will be shipped back to India and someone else will serve me fish and chips.
    And that sucks for her as an individual, but is it the wrong thing for society?

    She couldn’t find a role in her field. At best the next person with a degree in her field will be luckier?
    It's not just her – that's the problem. It's everyone. Even the doctors who can't find jobs while we have a shortage of doctors.
    I don’t buy the “can’t” find jobs.

    If you said “won’t take a job at the salary offered” or “won’t move to a rural GP practice” then that’s something practical.

    If there are jobs available and there are people who want to do the jobs then where does the “can’t” come from?
    Isn’t the issue there with the number of NHS training places for junior doctors, which don’t line up with the number of university medicine graduates?
    That is an issue but more of a medium term one. There is also an issue with the post allocation system that requires people to go to places they don’t want to go to
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