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Sir John Curtice thinks the Tories are new Lib Dems – politicalbetting.com

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  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,816

    Good morning everybody!

    About to go for my Covid vaccination, which the website tells I can't have, at a site which the website tells me doesn't exist, but when I spoke to the staff there yesterday they assured me there would be no problem. I'm over 75, (by 12 years!) and there's never been an issue in the past.

    On topic, I wonder if this will encourage Chris Mason and the rest of the BBC's political team to take their heads out of Farage's bottom and give some attention to the various LibDem spokespeople. I'd like to think so but will wait and see.

    I'm booked in for flu and covid jabs tomorrow (history of leukeamia plus asthma gets me entitled). I am unsure about whether we need to keep vaccinating everyone for covid or not. Most who want it have had at least 4 or 5 shots. I don't know whether a boost its needed every year. We are NOT intending to vaccinate children such as my son, who is coming up to three in Jan, relying on natural infection.

    And there are lots of people who are desperate to have covid shots because they have been terrorised over the last few years.

    Not sure where the evidence on this is, right now.
    As I understand it the Covid virus continues to mutate rapidly, and so it seems sensible to treat it as we do Influenza. Annual vaccinations for the latest variant, available to those who are particularly vulnerable, or expect to be in regular close contract with the vulnerable.

    The main difference with influenza is that children are not vulnerable to Covid in the way that they are to influenza.
    The covid virus continues to mutate, so vaccinations make sense. See https://www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/ for over-74s and vulnerable people like yourself (and me).
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,420
    Sandpit said:

    We can read @RobertJenrick's comments for ourselves, and see what he said

    Yes

    That's the problem

    We all know exactly what he said, and what he meant.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 4,078

    Good morning everybody!

    About to go for my Covid vaccination, which the website tells I can't have, at a site which the website tells me doesn't exist, but when I spoke to the staff there yesterday they assured me there would be no problem. I'm over 75, (by 12 years!) and there's never been an issue in the past.

    On topic, I wonder if this will encourage Chris Mason and the rest of the BBC's political team to take their heads out of Farage's bottom and give some attention to the various LibDem spokespeople. I'd like to think so but will wait and see.

    I'm booked in for flu and covid jabs tomorrow (history of leukeamia plus asthma gets me entitled). I am unsure about whether we need to keep vaccinating everyone for covid or not. Most who want it have had at least 4 or 5 shots. I don't know whether a boost its needed every year. We are NOT intending to vaccinate children such as my son, who is coming up to three in Jan, relying on natural infection.

    And there are lots of people who are desperate to have covid shots because they have been terrorised over the last few years.

    Not sure where the evidence on this is, right now.
    I had the first three covid jabs and after each one I was ill for 3-4 days, so since the risk of covid itself became much less I've opted not to have them. (I did get covid a year ago; I was very ill for 3 days but never needed medical help, although it did take me quite a while to recover properly.) Still going for not having the jab. I do have flu jabs, though.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,426
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.

    That would have the effect of dissuading people from stopping for breaks on long motorway journeys, making accidents from tiredness more likely.
    Not necessarily correct. A car computer treats any journey break of less than two hours as continuing the same journey.
    That's hardly set in stone. If the intent is to discourage short journeys around urban areas then you want to treat a stop to pop into one shop, followed by a short drive to another shop, etc, as separate journeys.

    In any case I think if you want to encourage people to use public transport in urban areas there are other approaches you might take. You could tax* on-street parking. This might discourage people living in urban areas from owning a car, and use a car club/public transport instead. People in rural areas are much more likely to have off-road parking.

    * I normally advocate banning on-street parking, but I'm trying to be moderate and reach out to others this morning.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,827

    Good morning everybody!

    About to go for my Covid vaccination, which the website tells I can't have, at a site which the website tells me doesn't exist, but when I spoke to the staff there yesterday they assured me there would be no problem. I'm over 75, (by 12 years!) and there's never been an issue in the past.

    On topic, I wonder if this will encourage Chris Mason and the rest of the BBC's political team to take their heads out of Farage's bottom and give some attention to the various LibDem spokespeople. I'd like to think so but will wait and see.

    I'm booked in for flu and covid jabs tomorrow (history of leukeamia plus asthma gets me entitled). I am unsure about whether we need to keep vaccinating everyone for covid or not. Most who want it have had at least 4 or 5 shots. I don't know whether a boost its needed every year. We are NOT intending to vaccinate children such as my son, who is coming up to three in Jan, relying on natural infection.

    And there are lots of people who are desperate to have covid shots because they have been terrorised over the last few years.

    Not sure where the evidence on this is, right now.
    As I understand it the Covid virus continues to mutate rapidly, and so it seems sensible to treat it as we do Influenza. Annual vaccinations for the latest variant, available to those who are particularly vulnerable, or expect to be in regular close contract with the vulnerable.

    The main difference with influenza is that children are not vulnerable to Covid in the way that they are to influenza.
    The covid virus continues to mutate, so vaccinations make sense. See https://www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/ for over-74s and vulnerable people like yourself (and me).
    I believe there's still some debate around the most efficacious interval between repeated vaccine shots.
    The immune system tends to "remember" quite strongly the first variant which it encounters ("immune imprinting"), and that can I think affect the magnitude and breadth of response to later vaccines against new variants.

    So it's a bit complicated... but the advice is very likely correct.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,225
    AnneJGP said:

    Good morning everybody!

    About to go for my Covid vaccination, which the website tells I can't have, at a site which the website tells me doesn't exist, but when I spoke to the staff there yesterday they assured me there would be no problem. I'm over 75, (by 12 years!) and there's never been an issue in the past.

    On topic, I wonder if this will encourage Chris Mason and the rest of the BBC's political team to take their heads out of Farage's bottom and give some attention to the various LibDem spokespeople. I'd like to think so but will wait and see.

    I'm booked in for flu and covid jabs tomorrow (history of leukeamia plus asthma gets me entitled). I am unsure about whether we need to keep vaccinating everyone for covid or not. Most who want it have had at least 4 or 5 shots. I don't know whether a boost its needed every year. We are NOT intending to vaccinate children such as my son, who is coming up to three in Jan, relying on natural infection.

    And there are lots of people who are desperate to have covid shots because they have been terrorised over the last few years.

    Not sure where the evidence on this is, right now.
    I had the first three covid jabs and after each one I was ill for 3-4 days, so since the risk of covid itself became much less I've opted not to have them. (I did get covid a year ago; I was very ill for 3 days but never needed medical help, although it did take me quite a while to recover properly.) Still going for not having the jab. I do have flu jabs, though.
    The shingles vaccines (2 of them) both poleaxed me. Seems a pretty common occurrence for this vaccine. Still worth it though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,827
    kjh said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good morning everybody!

    About to go for my Covid vaccination, which the website tells I can't have, at a site which the website tells me doesn't exist, but when I spoke to the staff there yesterday they assured me there would be no problem. I'm over 75, (by 12 years!) and there's never been an issue in the past.

    On topic, I wonder if this will encourage Chris Mason and the rest of the BBC's political team to take their heads out of Farage's bottom and give some attention to the various LibDem spokespeople. I'd like to think so but will wait and see.

    I'm booked in for flu and covid jabs tomorrow (history of leukeamia plus asthma gets me entitled). I am unsure about whether we need to keep vaccinating everyone for covid or not. Most who want it have had at least 4 or 5 shots. I don't know whether a boost its needed every year. We are NOT intending to vaccinate children such as my son, who is coming up to three in Jan, relying on natural infection.

    And there are lots of people who are desperate to have covid shots because they have been terrorised over the last few years.

    Not sure where the evidence on this is, right now.
    I had the first three covid jabs and after each one I was ill for 3-4 days, so since the risk of covid itself became much less I've opted not to have them. (I did get covid a year ago; I was very ill for 3 days but never needed medical help, although it did take me quite a while to recover properly.) Still going for not having the jab. I do have flu jabs, though.
    The shingles vaccines (2 of them) both poleaxed me. Seems a pretty common occurrence for this vaccine. Still worth it though.
    Yes, I need to get that soon.
    My wife reacted similarly, but the actual disease can be a lot worse.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,564
    Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    Another attack on our ancient rights and liberties. We've been proudly dodging tax for centuries. It's part of who we are.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,104
    edited 9:55AM

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.

    That would have the effect of dissuading people from stopping for breaks on long motorway journeys, making accidents from tiredness more likely.
    Not necessarily correct. A car computer treats any journey break of less than two hours as continuing the same journey.
    That's hardly set in stone. If the intent is to discourage short journeys around urban areas then you want to treat a stop to pop into one shop, followed by a short drive to another shop, etc, as separate journeys.

    In any case I think if you want to encourage people to use public transport in urban areas there are other approaches you might take. You could tax* on-street parking. This might discourage people living in urban areas from owning a car, and use a car club/public transport instead. People in rural areas are much more likely to have off-road parking.

    * I normally advocate banning on-street parking, but I'm trying to be moderate and reach out to others this morning.
    I think on-street parking should be allowed but charged at a rate to reflect the local land value.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,104
    Sean_F said:

    There’s a pretty disturbing report in today’s Times, about medical staff who post anti-Semitic drivel on social media, without any form of disciplinary sanction. So, Dr. Ramah Aladwen described Royal Free Hospital as a “Jewish supremacy cesspit”, and a picture of the Chief Rabbi with the caption, “Rabbi genocide”, and went before a tribunal which ruled that her words would not “alarm or concern” the public.

    How could any Jewish patient expect a professional service from this doctor?

    I’m quite sure I would be sanctioned by Solicitors Regulation Authority, if I did similarly.

    Particularly the reference to a hospital. I think public sector workers should be allowed to hold public opinions but not when it undermines the service they are providing.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,564
    Scott_xP said:

    @bestforbritain.org‬

    Wow. Robert Jenrick doubles down by branding a black journalist's questions "ridiculous" and saying that the problem is not his comments, but "journalists like you who pop up and try to knock me down", adding that "this is the reason why terrorist attacks happen". ~AA

    https://bsky.app/profile/bestforbritain.org/post/3m2lqc3tsak2g

    Yep. Terrorist attacks are often triggered by impertinent media questioning of Robert Jenrick. Been thinking that for ages.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,564

    Good morning everybody!

    About to go for my Covid vaccination, which the website tells I can't have, at a site which the website tells me doesn't exist, but when I spoke to the staff there yesterday they assured me there would be no problem. I'm over 75, (by 12 years!) and there's never been an issue in the past.

    On topic, I wonder if this will encourage Chris Mason and the rest of the BBC's political team to take their heads out of Farage's bottom and give some attention to the various LibDem spokespeople. I'd like to think so but will wait and see.

    I'm booked in for flu and covid jabs tomorrow (history of leukeamia plus asthma gets me entitled). I am unsure about whether we need to keep vaccinating everyone for covid or not. Most who want it have had at least 4 or 5 shots. I don't know whether a boost its needed every year. We are NOT intending to vaccinate children such as my son, who is coming up to three in Jan, relying on natural infection.

    And there are lots of people who are desperate to have covid shots because they have been terrorised over the last few years.

    Not sure where the evidence on this is, right now.
    As I understand it the Covid virus continues to mutate rapidly, and so it seems sensible to treat it as we do Influenza. Annual vaccinations for the latest variant, available to those who are particularly vulnerable, or expect to be in regular close contract with the vulnerable.

    The main difference with influenza is that children are not vulnerable to Covid in the way that they are to influenza.
    The covid virus continues to mutate, so vaccinations make sense. See https://www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/covid-19-vaccine/ for over-74s and vulnerable people like yourself (and me).
    I'm thinking of paying for one (I only get the flu jab free). I'm still wary of the disease even if it isn't what it was.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,352
    Is Robert Jenrick on day release from an in-patient clinic for the disturbed?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,426
    Tipping point!

    https://www.rte.ie/news/environment/2025/1007/1537222-renewables-coal/

    "Solar and wind outpaced the growth in global electricity demand in the first half of 2025... renewables generated more power than coal for the first time, and that overall, both coal and gas generation saw a slight decline globally, compared to the first six months of 2024."
  • eekeek Posts: 31,457
    Nigelb said:

    kjh said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Good morning everybody!

    About to go for my Covid vaccination, which the website tells I can't have, at a site which the website tells me doesn't exist, but when I spoke to the staff there yesterday they assured me there would be no problem. I'm over 75, (by 12 years!) and there's never been an issue in the past.

    On topic, I wonder if this will encourage Chris Mason and the rest of the BBC's political team to take their heads out of Farage's bottom and give some attention to the various LibDem spokespeople. I'd like to think so but will wait and see.

    I'm booked in for flu and covid jabs tomorrow (history of leukeamia plus asthma gets me entitled). I am unsure about whether we need to keep vaccinating everyone for covid or not. Most who want it have had at least 4 or 5 shots. I don't know whether a boost its needed every year. We are NOT intending to vaccinate children such as my son, who is coming up to three in Jan, relying on natural infection.

    And there are lots of people who are desperate to have covid shots because they have been terrorised over the last few years.

    Not sure where the evidence on this is, right now.
    I had the first three covid jabs and after each one I was ill for 3-4 days, so since the risk of covid itself became much less I've opted not to have them. (I did get covid a year ago; I was very ill for 3 days but never needed medical help, although it did take me quite a while to recover properly.) Still going for not having the jab. I do have flu jabs, though.
    The shingles vaccines (2 of them) both poleaxed me. Seems a pretty common occurrence for this vaccine. Still worth it though.
    Yes, I need to get that soon.
    My wife reacted similarly, but the actual disease can be a lot worse.
    Its not just shingles that the shingles vaccine reduces the risk of, reports show it also reduces dementia by removing a possible trigger
  • TazTaz Posts: 21,310
    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    kjh said:

    Taz said:

    That’s pretty damning from Sir John. What an awful thing to say. The Tories are bad but Lib Dem’s !!

    A bit slow off the mark there with your LD post Taz, the thread had been up a whole 7 minutes.
    I’ve been out for my morning walk before sitting down to watch Gaudy Night.

    Genuinely I’d like to know what the Lib Dem’s stand for. When you had orange bookers and Sandalistas it was clear what the policies were.

    Nowadays it just seems to be telling different groups what they want to hear. For example the undeserving WASPI women and the rest of the invective is about Farage and Trump.
    Maybe we can discuss over a beer sometime. Like me you obviously apprecaite a decent cask beer. Don't want to bore the pants off of anyone here. If you are down South anytime drop me a DM.

    FYI I am an Orange Booker.

    Re your specific examples:

    WASPIs I agree with you although the Government at the time could have done better by staggering the change more so that it wasn't so abrupt and actually writing to them all beforehand. I appreciate the writing it is an expense, but they wrote to me to tell me I was getting a £10 Christmas bonus for goodness sake (which was a waste of money). Having said all of that it was well publicised.

    Re Farage and Trump that is a no brainer politically. It makes them distinct from the other parties (who either support him or need to suck up to him because they are in Government). So it is politically sensible means to harness votes and is consistent with them being politically opposite. They could bang on about electoral reform, but the average voter doesn't give a damn.

    The LDs are knee deep in policies, but you won't see them publicised by the media. It is hard for them to get airtime, hence the ridiculous publicity stunts. Sadly they work.

    PS I don't agree with all LD stuff at all and whereas I don't agree with most (although some) of the stuff from Reform/Labour/Tories/Greens etc I don't get fixated on any of them.
    Will certainly do so, if I’m ever that way. A beer sounds good. Cask deffo.
    I would volunteer when I am up your neck of the woods, but that never happens (too cold). Having said that my daughters boyfriend is from Middlesbrough which I vaguely recall is somewhere up north.
    Ha, it certainly is. Around 40 minutes away
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,201
    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @bestforbritain.org‬

    Wow. Robert Jenrick doubles down by branding a black journalist's questions "ridiculous" and saying that the problem is not his comments, but "journalists like you who pop up and try to knock me down", adding that "this is the reason why terrorist attacks happen". ~AA

    https://bsky.app/profile/bestforbritain.org/post/3m2lqc3tsak2g

    How very Trumpian.

    (Actually, JD Vance spun exactly the same line of bullshit last week...)
    I don't think Kemi's position can be rescued, but if it can it requires her to remove Jenrick from the shadow front bench.
    He should Tory off and join the Fukkers.
    What if Bobby J wants Kemi to kick him out/demote him so he has a reason to go and join Farage?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,328
    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    R4 Today gave the LOTO a dead easy ride this morning and she was not very good.

    Kemi had not worked out how to deal with the Jenrick 'no white faces, not my preferred country' comment. SFAICS she actually had to dispense with his shadow ministerial services in order to be credible and serious.

    Lord Hannan:

    https://x.com/danieljhannan/status/1975484786308468786?s=12

    “No one falls for selective reporting any more. We can read @RobertJenrick's comments for ourselves, and see what he said, namely that ethnic enclaves are a sign of failure.
    There was a time when mischievous Guardian headlines could do real damage, but that power has vanished.”

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges

    We can - and need to - have a debate about integration. But if Robert Jenrick can't do that without resorting to simplistic and lazy "I didn't see a white face" rhetoric then he's got no business being in politics.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,278
    edited 10:13AM
    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    There’s a pretty disturbing report in today’s Times, about medical staff who post anti-Semitic drivel on social media, without any form of disciplinary sanction. So, Dr. Ramah Aladwen described Royal Free Hospital as a “Jewish supremacy cesspit”, and a picture of the Chief Rabbi with the caption, “Rabbi genocide”, and went before a tribunal which ruled that her words would not “alarm or concern” the public.

    How could any Jewish patient expect a professional service from this doctor?

    I’m quite sure I would be sanctioned by Solicitors Regulation Authority, if I did similarly.

    Particularly the reference to a hospital. I think public sector workers should be allowed to hold public opinions but not when it undermines the service they are providing.
    If you are in a public-facing profession, you should really keep politics to yourself and not post anything potentially controversial under your own name.

    Hospital patients, as a good example, often don’t get much of a choice of doctor.

    I use my Twitter for work, post only stuff about computers and technology, and don’t reply to others with anything more controversial than saying Lewis Hamilton got unlucky on Sunday. Apart from a few posters on here, I don’t directly follow a lot of political people either.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,461

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @bestforbritain.org‬

    Wow. Robert Jenrick doubles down by branding a black journalist's questions "ridiculous" and saying that the problem is not his comments, but "journalists like you who pop up and try to knock me down", adding that "this is the reason why terrorist attacks happen". ~AA

    https://bsky.app/profile/bestforbritain.org/post/3m2lqc3tsak2g

    How very Trumpian.

    (Actually, JD Vance spun exactly the same line of bullshit last week...)
    I don't think Kemi's position can be rescued, but if it can it requires her to remove Jenrick from the shadow front bench.
    He should Tory off and join the Fukkers.
    What if Bobby J wants Kemi to kick him out/demote him so he has a reason to go and join Farage?
    What if he does that and Farage doesn't want him?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,816

    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,827
    edited 10:14AM
    dr_spyn said:

    Is Robert Jenrick on day release from an in-patient clinic for the disturbed?

    Apparently so.
    The original point he was attempting to make (in what was a pretty offensive manner) wasn't a particularly stupid one:
    ..In the recording, he goes on to say: "That's not the kind of country I want to live in. I want to live in a country where people are properly integrated.
    "It's not about the colour of your skin, or your faith, of course it isn't. But I want people to be living alongside each other, not parallel lives.".


    If he just had apologised for clumsy language, and re-emphasised the above, that would probably have been the end of it.

    The doubling down about "terrorism" is quite obviously copied from Trump and his crew.

    Potty.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,328
    More than a dozen Conservative councillors have defected to Reform today, with the party dripping out announcements every half hour or so since 7am.

    Guardian live blog
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,887

    Scott_xP said:

    @bestforbritain.org‬

    Wow. Robert Jenrick doubles down by branding a black journalist's questions "ridiculous" and saying that the problem is not his comments, but "journalists like you who pop up and try to knock me down", adding that "this is the reason why terrorist attacks happen". ~AA

    https://bsky.app/profile/bestforbritain.org/post/3m2lqc3tsak2g

    How very Trumpian.

    (Actually, JD Vance spun exactly the same line of bullshit last week...)
    Where do you go of this c*** becomes LOTO?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,461
    edited 10:15AM
    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.

    That would have the effect of dissuading people from stopping for breaks on long motorway journeys, making accidents from tiredness more likely.
    Not necessarily correct. A car computer treats any journey break of less than two hours as continuing the same journey.
    That's hardly set in stone. If the intent is to discourage short journeys around urban areas then you want to treat a stop to pop into one shop, followed by a short drive to another shop, etc, as separate journeys.

    In any case I think if you want to encourage people to use public transport in urban areas there are other approaches you might take. You could tax* on-street parking. This might discourage people living in urban areas from owning a car, and use a car club/public transport instead. People in rural areas are much more likely to have off-road parking.

    * I normally advocate banning on-street parking, but I'm trying to be moderate and reach out to others this morning.
    I think on-street parking should be allowed but charged at a rate to reflect the local land value.
    Although in that case the Council should have no power to refuse the construction of residential off-street parking where access could be made without building work.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,201
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @bestforbritain.org‬

    Wow. Robert Jenrick doubles down by branding a black journalist's questions "ridiculous" and saying that the problem is not his comments, but "journalists like you who pop up and try to knock me down", adding that "this is the reason why terrorist attacks happen". ~AA

    https://bsky.app/profile/bestforbritain.org/post/3m2lqc3tsak2g

    How very Trumpian.

    (Actually, JD Vance spun exactly the same line of bullshit last week...)
    I don't think Kemi's position can be rescued, but if it can it requires her to remove Jenrick from the shadow front bench.
    He should Tory off and join the Fukkers.
    What if Bobby J wants Kemi to kick him out/demote him so he has a reason to go and join Farage?
    What if he does that and Farage doesn't want him?
    I mean, I wouldn’t blame Farage in that scenario.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,461
    dr_spyn said:

    Is Robert Jenrick on day release from an in-patient clinic for the disturbed?

    Don't be ridiculous.

    He's been out more than one day.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,426

    More than a dozen Conservative councillors have defected to Reform today, with the party dripping out announcements every half hour or so since 7am.

    Guardian live blog

    How many more defections until you'd say that Reform had reassembled the Tories from its constituent parts?

    It feels like a variant on the Ship of Theseus.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,426
    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    ydoethur said:

    Eabhal said:

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.

    That would have the effect of dissuading people from stopping for breaks on long motorway journeys, making accidents from tiredness more likely.
    Not necessarily correct. A car computer treats any journey break of less than two hours as continuing the same journey.
    That's hardly set in stone. If the intent is to discourage short journeys around urban areas then you want to treat a stop to pop into one shop, followed by a short drive to another shop, etc, as separate journeys.

    In any case I think if you want to encourage people to use public transport in urban areas there are other approaches you might take. You could tax* on-street parking. This might discourage people living in urban areas from owning a car, and use a car club/public transport instead. People in rural areas are much more likely to have off-road parking.

    * I normally advocate banning on-street parking, but I'm trying to be moderate and reach out to others this morning.
    I think on-street parking should be allowed but charged at a rate to reflect the local land value.
    Although in that case the Council should have no power to refuse the construction of residential off-street parking where access could be made without building work.
    Indeed not. We should encourage people to store their cars off the road so that the road can be used without hindrance by people trying to get places.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,691

    More than a dozen Conservative councillors have defected to Reform today, with the party dripping out announcements every half hour or so since 7am.

    Guardian live blog

    How many more defections until you'd say that Reform had reassembled the Tories from its constituent parts?

    It feels like a variant on the Ship of Theseus.
    I'll never vote for anyone who has represented Reform. I'd be more likely to vote for a Corbynite.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,143


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,292


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    When was the last coherent credible plan for the country?

    Regardless of whether I supported them or not I can only recall:

    Cameron/Osborne/LDs
    Brown
    Blair/Brown
    Thatcher

    Probably missing some in opposition as those were all elected but don't think many. Perhaps being harsh on Major but it did drift into cone hotlines and random scandals.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,063
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    Voting LD is now a marker of having made it to the upper middle class, living in Surrey or the Cotswolds or Tunbridge Wells or SW London, shopping at Waitrose etc much like voting Tory used to be something to aspire to.

    Voting Reform by contrast is now as common as voting Labour used to be. Something your plumber or the binmen did.
    I used to be a binman.

    Looks like Ill have to vote Reform.
    Surely as an ex-binman you should be taking out the rubbish not bringing it in?
    Im white trash
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,827


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    When was the last coherent credible plan for the country?

    Regardless of whether I supported them or not I can only recall:

    Cameron/Osborne/LDs
    Brown
    Blair/Brown
    Thatcher

    Probably missing some in opposition as those were all elected but don't think many. Perhaps being harsh on Major but it did drift into cone hotlines and random scandals.
    Did Brown really have any credible plan, post Blair, or was he merely reacting to events ?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,827

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    Voting LD is now a marker of having made it to the upper middle class, living in Surrey or the Cotswolds or Tunbridge Wells or SW London, shopping at Waitrose etc much like voting Tory used to be something to aspire to.

    Voting Reform by contrast is now as common as voting Labour used to be. Something your plumber or the binmen did.
    I used to be a binman.

    Looks like Ill have to vote Reform.
    Surely as an ex-binman you should be taking out the rubbish not bringing it in?
    Im white trash
    Paper or plastic ?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,426
    Nigelb said:


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    When was the last coherent credible plan for the country?

    Regardless of whether I supported them or not I can only recall:

    Cameron/Osborne/LDs
    Brown
    Blair/Brown
    Thatcher

    Probably missing some in opposition as those were all elected but don't think many. Perhaps being harsh on Major but it did drift into cone hotlines and random scandals.
    Did Brown really have any credible plan, post Blair, or was he merely reacting to events ?
    One of the great disappointments of Brown's PMship is that he'd created the expectation of having a great plan that he would implement when he took over from Blair. And when he did so we saw that the plan consisted entirely of taking over from Blair.

    He is credited by many people in the know of playing a crucial role in forging an international response to the credit crunch - so I suppose we should allow that it would otherwise have been a lot worse - but that's very much reacting to events rather than having a coherent plan of what to do in government.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 12,104
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    There’s a pretty disturbing report in today’s Times, about medical staff who post anti-Semitic drivel on social media, without any form of disciplinary sanction. So, Dr. Ramah Aladwen described Royal Free Hospital as a “Jewish supremacy cesspit”, and a picture of the Chief Rabbi with the caption, “Rabbi genocide”, and went before a tribunal which ruled that her words would not “alarm or concern” the public.

    How could any Jewish patient expect a professional service from this doctor?

    I’m quite sure I would be sanctioned by Solicitors Regulation Authority, if I did similarly.

    Particularly the reference to a hospital. I think public sector workers should be allowed to hold public opinions but not when it undermines the service they are providing.
    If you are in a public-facing profession, you should really keep politics to yourself and not post anything potentially controversial under your own name.

    Hospital patients, as a good example, often don’t get much of a choice of doctor.

    I use my Twitter for work, post only stuff about computers and technology, and don’t reply to others with anything more controversial than saying Lewis Hamilton got unlucky on Sunday. Apart from a few posters on here, I don’t directly follow a lot of political people either.
    It's a very large proportion of the population, particularly when you take into account contractors (what happens if a finance manager at Babcock mouthes off about UKG? Their business depends on UKG contracts).

    I'm a bit uncomfortable with restricting all those people in what they can say.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,292
    Nigelb said:


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    When was the last coherent credible plan for the country?

    Regardless of whether I supported them or not I can only recall:

    Cameron/Osborne/LDs
    Brown
    Blair/Brown
    Thatcher

    Probably missing some in opposition as those were all elected but don't think many. Perhaps being harsh on Major but it did drift into cone hotlines and random scandals.
    Did Brown really have any credible plan, post Blair, or was he merely reacting to events ?
    It wasn't one I agreed with and hard to tell due to the credit crunch hitting in the first year of his term, but I think he just about qualifies.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 26,063
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    Voting LD is now a marker of having made it to the upper middle class, living in Surrey or the Cotswolds or Tunbridge Wells or SW London, shopping at Waitrose etc much like voting Tory used to be something to aspire to.

    Voting Reform by contrast is now as common as voting Labour used to be. Something your plumber or the binmen did.
    I used to be a binman.

    Looks like Ill have to vote Reform.
    Surely as an ex-binman you should be taking out the rubbish not bringing it in?
    Im white trash
    Paper or plastic ?
    definitely paper, I hate plastic
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,402
    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    R4 Today gave the LOTO a dead easy ride this morning and she was not very good.

    Kemi had not worked out how to deal with the Jenrick 'no white faces, not my preferred country' comment. SFAICS she actually had to dispense with his shadow ministerial services in order to be credible and serious.

    Lord Hannan:

    https://x.com/danieljhannan/status/1975484786308468786?s=12

    “No one falls for selective reporting any more. We can read @RobertJenrick's comments for ourselves, and see what he said, namely that ethnic enclaves are a sign of failure.
    There was a time when mischievous Guardian headlines could do real damage, but that power has vanished.”
    "Ethnic enclaves" as Hannan calls them are a sign of human nature, not failure. People like people like themselves and tend to congregate for reasons of identity and security. How many cities have or had "Jewish" quarters, "Chinese" quarters or similar? There have been ethnic enclaves in London for decades if not longer whether Irish, Polish, Jewish, Czech or whatever.

    The modern world in truth means there is less requirement to integrate. The Romanian man in a house full of Romanians eats Romanian food, watches Romanian tv via a dish or the Internet. He often walks with other Romanians on a building site where his boss speaks his language - in short, he doesn't need to integrate and as long as he can do "please" and "thank you" he can get by.

    The "hope" if you like is or are the children who go to school, learn English, associate with people from other cultures and slowly begin the journey of integration into British society.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,070

    Scott_xP said:

    @bestforbritain.org‬

    Wow. Robert Jenrick doubles down by branding a black journalist's questions "ridiculous" and saying that the problem is not his comments, but "journalists like you who pop up and try to knock me down", adding that "this is the reason why terrorist attacks happen". ~AA

    https://bsky.app/profile/bestforbritain.org/post/3m2lqc3tsak2g

    How very Trumpian.

    (Actually, JD Vance spun exactly the same line of bullshit last week...)
    Where do you go of this c*** becomes LOTO?
    Wait until the forest fire burns out...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 124,145

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    Voting LD is now a marker of having made it to the upper middle class, living in Surrey or the Cotswolds or Tunbridge Wells or SW London, shopping at Waitrose etc much like voting Tory used to be something to aspire to.

    Voting Reform by contrast is now as common as voting Labour used to be. Something your plumber or the binmen did.
    I used to be a binman.

    Looks like Ill have to vote Reform.
    Surely as an ex-binman you should be taking out the rubbish not bringing it in?
    Im white trash
    Please, the politically correct term is ‘Ulsterman’ not ‘white trash’.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,691


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    When was the last coherent credible plan for the country?

    Regardless of whether I supported them or not I can only recall:

    Cameron/Osborne/LDs
    Brown
    Blair/Brown
    Thatcher

    Probably missing some in opposition as those were all elected but don't think many. Perhaps being harsh on Major but it did drift into cone hotlines and random scandals.
    What was Brown's plan?

    I remember sitting in the car with the now Mrs-J on the way back from work when Brown took over from Blair, and saying something like "Thank God all that nonsense is over within the government. Brown can now get what he wants done."

    This was in relation to all the infighting the Brown's minions were doing against Blair. The only problem is that it became obvious, very rapidly, that Brown had no plan. He had spent years scheming and fighting for the top job, and once he had it, he was like Wile E. Coyote when he finally caught Roadrunner. He had no plan, let alone a credible plan.

    And then the GFC happened...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,461

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    Voting LD is now a marker of having made it to the upper middle class, living in Surrey or the Cotswolds or Tunbridge Wells or SW London, shopping at Waitrose etc much like voting Tory used to be something to aspire to.

    Voting Reform by contrast is now as common as voting Labour used to be. Something your plumber or the binmen did.
    I used to be a binman.

    Looks like Ill have to vote Reform.
    Surely as an ex-binman you should be taking out the rubbish not bringing it in?
    Im white trash
    Please, the politically correct term is ‘Ulsterman’ not ‘white trash’.
    I thought Ulstermen were all Orange or Emerald?
  • Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    Hand the government a hammer and they will find ways to beat you with it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,399


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
    It’s more that the Lib Dem’s are in the mode of saying yes to everyone. So build more housing, just not *any* particular development. So yes to those who want more housing and yes to the NIMBYs.

    Forming a strong set of policies and holding to them means a choice between rowing back on them to gain in a locality, or pushing forward and accepting you might lose some votes.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,547
    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    R4 Today gave the LOTO a dead easy ride this morning and she was not very good.

    Kemi had not worked out how to deal with the Jenrick 'no white faces, not my preferred country' comment. SFAICS she actually had to dispense with his shadow ministerial services in order to be credible and serious.

    Lord Hannan:

    https://x.com/danieljhannan/status/1975484786308468786?s=12

    “No one falls for selective reporting any more. We can read @RobertJenrick's comments for ourselves, and see what he said, namely that ethnic enclaves are a sign of failure.
    There was a time when mischievous Guardian headlines could do real damage, but that power has vanished.”
    "Ethnic enclaves" as Hannan calls them are a sign of human nature, not failure. People like people like themselves and tend to congregate for reasons of identity and security. How many cities have or had "Jewish" quarters, "Chinese" quarters or similar? There have been ethnic enclaves in London for decades if not longer whether Irish, Polish, Jewish, Czech or whatever.

    The modern world in truth means there is less requirement to integrate. The Romanian man in a house full of Romanians eats Romanian food, watches Romanian tv via a dish or the Internet. He often walks with other Romanians on a building site where his boss speaks his language - in short, he doesn't need to integrate and as long as he can do "please" and "thank you" he can get by.

    The "hope" if you like is or are the children who go to school, learn English, associate with people from other cultures and slowly begin the journey of integration into British society.
    So why, if the Tommeh types want the country to be white Christian for example, is that not just the same thought process in action?

    And if you accept that it’s ok to have “ethnic enclaves” based on them being natural desires for reasons of identity and security then surely you have to accept Tommy and CO’s views as perfectly fair and valid. can’t really have it both ways surely?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,070

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    Voting LD is now a marker of having made it to the upper middle class, living in Surrey or the Cotswolds or Tunbridge Wells or SW London, shopping at Waitrose etc much like voting Tory used to be something to aspire to.

    Voting Reform by contrast is now as common as voting Labour used to be. Something your plumber or the binmen did.
    I used to be a binman.

    Looks like Ill have to vote Reform.
    Surely as an ex-binman you should be taking out the rubbish not bringing it in?
    Im white trash
    Paper or plastic ?
    definitely paper, I hate plastic
    Except straws. Probably the only area where Trump is correct - paper straws are shite.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,217
    edited 10:49AM

    HYUFD said:

    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    Voting LD is now a marker of having made it to the upper middle class, living in Surrey or the Cotswolds or Tunbridge Wells or SW London, shopping at Waitrose etc much like voting Tory used to be something to aspire to.

    Voting Reform by contrast is now as common as voting Labour used to be. Something your plumber or the binmen did.
    I used to be a binman.

    Looks like Ill have to vote Reform.
    Hasn't that always been your party of choice? And as for your life on the bins what happened to Johnny Roadhouse and Days of Hope as you partied into the early hours with Ade Edmonson and Rik Mayall ?
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,490
    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    That’s pretty damning from Sir John. What an awful thing to say. The Tories are bad but Lib Dem’s !!

    What is wrong with the Lib Dems?

    Labour are aimlessly treading water lost between Palestine and Israel and hamstrung by their ridiculous "no new taxes" pledge from 14 years in Opposition. Whilst the Tories, where do you start? And the Greens, loud, excitable and as green and mad as a bag of frogs. And as for Farage, magic remedies from the MAGA right, uncosted, unhinged and unquesttioned.
    At least the Greens and Reform have some interesting ideas, even if they are completely crazy. I think that is at least part of why Labour aren't doing well - I really hope the budget has something innovative it even if the kind of wholesale reform I want to see isn't there. Local fuel duty rates based on rurality index?
    I like the idea of local fuel duty, but isn't it utterly impractical? My car does nearly 1k miles on a tank, I already plan my filling points to buy fuel where it's cheapest. Local duty just means that everyone will fill up at rural locations rather than big cities (the cheapest place I go semi-regularly is currently a Morrisons in Breadbury, just off the M67, although if I'm anywhere near Whitchurch I get a tank full from DA Roberts in Grindley Brook - he's usually the UK's cheapest filling station).

    See - it's working because now we're talking about a hypothetical Labour policy.

    It would have to be gentle gradation between no fuel duty in Benbecula to full whack in central London. It would never be perfect and cause some perverse outcomes in some cases, but far far better than something entirely counter-productive like charging on mileage which harms rural communities and incentivises short journeys.

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.
    How’s about not taxing mobility.
    We don't, if you're rich and have an EV.

    Tax is only for the little people, don't you know?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,777


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
    Good morning

    The conservatives at present are in a dire position, but cheering their demise will hand Farage the keys to no 10 with a considerable majority.

    Years ago we had good Lib Dem representation, indeed one of friends was very active but you wouldn't know her politics as she concentrated on local issues

    Today they seem to have gone and largely stand as independents, and as for Wales they really have little or no influence

    What we are witnessing is the collapse of the main parties and trust in politics with Reform effectively attracting the NOA vote

    At my wife and my ages the next GE is a very long way away, and anyone who says they know the future trajectory of UK politics is wishcasting

    As for Badenoch I doubt she will last beyond May 26 unless she surprises on the upside, but if Jenrick arrives then anything could happen, and frankly I prefer Badenoch to continue than Jenrick take over
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,426
    edited 10:51AM
    Ukraine have begun using the new anti-drone 70mm missiles.

    https://kyivindependent.com/thales-arms-maker-delivers-new-missiles-to-ukraine-designed-to-take-out-russian-drones/

    We'd previously heard that the US had bought the entirety of the supply available, but clearly some shuffling of delivery schedules has happened quietly.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,970
    F1: phenomenal stat:

    "In the last 17 seasons, Brawn GP and Ferrari have led the constructors' championship for the same number of races
    Brawn GP only competed in 1 of these 17 seasons"

    https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1975242276935995537
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,461

    F1: phenomenal stat:

    "In the last 17 seasons, Brawn GP and Ferrari have led the constructors' championship for the same number of races
    Brawn GP only competed in 1 of these 17 seasons"

    https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1975242276935995537

    And they relied on what amounted to push Button tactics.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,399
    edited 11:04AM
    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    That’s pretty damning from Sir John. What an awful thing to say. The Tories are bad but Lib Dem’s !!

    What is wrong with the Lib Dems?

    Labour are aimlessly treading water lost between Palestine and Israel and hamstrung by their ridiculous "no new taxes" pledge from 14 years in Opposition. Whilst the Tories, where do you start? And the Greens, loud, excitable and as green and mad as a bag of frogs. And as for Farage, magic remedies from the MAGA right, uncosted, unhinged and unquesttioned.
    At least the Greens and Reform have some interesting ideas, even if they are completely crazy. I think that is at least part of why Labour aren't doing well - I really hope the budget has something innovative it even if the kind of wholesale reform I want to see isn't there. Local fuel duty rates based on rurality index?
    I like the idea of local fuel duty, but isn't it utterly impractical? My car does nearly 1k miles on a tank, I already plan my filling points to buy fuel where it's cheapest. Local duty just means that everyone will fill up at rural locations rather than big cities (the cheapest place I go semi-regularly is currently a Morrisons in Breadbury, just off the M67, although if I'm anywhere near Whitchurch I get a tank full from DA Roberts in Grindley Brook - he's usually the UK's cheapest filling station).

    See - it's working because now we're talking about a hypothetical Labour policy.

    It would have to be gentle gradation between no fuel duty in Benbecula to full whack in central London. It would never be perfect and cause some perverse outcomes in some cases, but far far better than something entirely counter-productive like charging on mileage which harms rural communities and incentivises short journeys.

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.
    How’s about not taxing mobility.
    We don't, if you're rich and have an EV.

    Tax is only for the little people, don't you know?
    For many years, the Official Policy was that Hydrogen Fuel Cells would replace petrol - essentially, electric cars that generate their electricity from the combination of hydrogen and oxygen in a controlled reaction.

    The reason that this was official policy was that

    1) Hydrogen would be produced by the oil companies in existing refineries. So no job losses or massive economic effects. Small problem. This is bollocks. A facility to produce hydrogen is nothing like a refinery.

    2) Hydrogen could be piped through the natural gas network. Also bollocks - aside from the incompatibility of materials and hydrogen, the network is in the wrong places.

    3) people would fill up at reworked filling stations and be taxed as per petrol. Specific mention was made that pure electric vehicles would be next to impossible to tax on fuel and hence constraining usage would become very difficult.

    Aside from the additional problem of hydrogen fuel cell cars not actually existing (much)….
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,278

    F1: phenomenal stat:

    "In the last 17 seasons, Brawn GP and Ferrari have led the constructors' championship for the same number of races
    Brawn GP only competed in 1 of these 17 seasons"

    https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1975242276935995537

    There’s a rumour of a board meeting at Ferrari today, big boss turning up to read int riot act to the F1 team.

    They even gave Lewis a brilliant strategy, for the first time in months, and then had the same failure on both cars.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,544

    Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    Hand the government a hammer and they will find ways to beat you with it.
    The inevitable feature creep. It will go from not being compulsory, you don't need to carry it, and it's only for limited uses, to something that will be de facto compulsory and needed a lot of the time for many, many different things.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,070
    glw said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    Hand the government a hammer and they will find ways to beat you with it.
    The inevitable feature creep. It will go from not being compulsory, you don't need to carry it, and it's only for limited uses, to something that will be de facto compulsory and needed a lot of the time for many, many different things.
    It will be open to access by every facet of Government. Howlong before it is linked to your right to vote, your right to attend A&E, your requirement to fill in the Census...all then cross-referenced.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,748
    edited 11:09AM

    More than a dozen Conservative councillors have defected to Reform today, with the party dripping out announcements every half hour or so since 7am.

    Guardian live blog

    How many more defections until you'd say that Reform had reassembled the Tories from its constituent parts?

    It feels like a variant on the Ship of Theseus.
    ...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,827

    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    That’s pretty damning from Sir John. What an awful thing to say. The Tories are bad but Lib Dem’s !!

    What is wrong with the Lib Dems?

    Labour are aimlessly treading water lost between Palestine and Israel and hamstrung by their ridiculous "no new taxes" pledge from 14 years in Opposition. Whilst the Tories, where do you start? And the Greens, loud, excitable and as green and mad as a bag of frogs. And as for Farage, magic remedies from the MAGA right, uncosted, unhinged and unquesttioned.
    At least the Greens and Reform have some interesting ideas, even if they are completely crazy. I think that is at least part of why Labour aren't doing well - I really hope the budget has something innovative it even if the kind of wholesale reform I want to see isn't there. Local fuel duty rates based on rurality index?
    I like the idea of local fuel duty, but isn't it utterly impractical? My car does nearly 1k miles on a tank, I already plan my filling points to buy fuel where it's cheapest. Local duty just means that everyone will fill up at rural locations rather than big cities (the cheapest place I go semi-regularly is currently a Morrisons in Breadbury, just off the M67, although if I'm anywhere near Whitchurch I get a tank full from DA Roberts in Grindley Brook - he's usually the UK's cheapest filling station).

    See - it's working because now we're talking about a hypothetical Labour policy.

    It would have to be gentle gradation between no fuel duty in Benbecula to full whack in central London. It would never be perfect and cause some perverse outcomes in some cases, but far far better than something entirely counter-productive like charging on mileage which harms rural communities and incentivises short journeys.

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.
    How’s about not taxing mobility.
    We don't, if you're rich and have an EV.

    Tax is only for the little people, don't you know?
    For many years, the Official Policy was that Hydrogen Fuel Cells would replace petrol - essentially, electric cars that generate their electricity from the combination of hydrogen and oxygen in a controlled reaction.

    The reason that this was official policy was that

    1) Hydrogen would be produced by the oil companies in existing refineries. So no job losses or massive economic effects. Small problem. This is bollocks. A facility to produce hydrogen is nothing like a refinery.

    2) Hydrogen could be piped through the natural gas network. Also bollocks - aside from the incompatibility of materials and hydrogen, the network is in the wrong places.

    3) people would fill up at reworked filling stations and be taxed as per petrol. Specific mention was made that pure electric vehicles would be next to impossible to tax on fuel and hence constraining usage would become very difficult.

    Aside from the additional problem of hydrogen fuel cell cars not actually existing (much)….
    A massive strategic blunder by the Japanese, who for a time were quite a way out in front in battery manufacturing.

    Had they gone all in on battery EVs, as China ended up doing, then they might now be challenging the Chinese manufacturers, and certainly the S Korean ones, but Toyota dragged its heels, while pouring billions into fuel cell development, for little or no return.

    We decided to do Brexit, instead.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,970
    Sandpit said:

    F1: phenomenal stat:

    "In the last 17 seasons, Brawn GP and Ferrari have led the constructors' championship for the same number of races
    Brawn GP only competed in 1 of these 17 seasons"

    https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1975242276935995537

    There’s a rumour of a board meeting at Ferrari today, big boss turning up to read int riot act to the F1 team.

    They even gave Lewis a brilliant strategy, for the first time in months, and then had the same failure on both cars.
    With next year's regulations overhaul, if the rumours of the Mercedes engine being the best are true it could be another rough time for Ferrari.

    The main thing I'll be looking for in the 2026 driver market are the odds on Russell (with perhaps a look at Alonso), each way.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,352
    Jenrick has given up on bashing the bishops instead he prefers bashing the judges.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,278
    edited 11:13AM

    Ukraine have begun using the new anti-drone 70mm missiles.

    https://kyivindependent.com/thales-arms-maker-delivers-new-missiles-to-ukraine-designed-to-take-out-russian-drones/

    We'd previously heard that the US had bought the entirety of the supply available, but clearly some shuffling of delivery schedules has happened quietly.

    There’s a lot going on under the radar at the moment when it comes to Ukraine’s capabilities. There’s clearly a lot of Western arms companies working very closely with the Ukranians, as opposed to Western countries just sending Ukraine their old stuff as was the case earlier in the war.

    Many of the new “Ukranian” weapons currently taking apart Russia’s oil & gas industry contain a fair amount of plausibly deniable Western technology.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,143


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
    Good morning

    The conservatives at present are in a dire position, but cheering their demise will hand Farage the keys to no 10 with a considerable majority.

    Years ago we had good Lib Dem representation, indeed one of friends was very active but you wouldn't know her politics as she concentrated on local issues

    Today they seem to have gone and largely stand as independents, and as for Wales they really have little or no influence

    What we are witnessing is the collapse of the main parties and trust in politics with Reform effectively attracting the NOA vote

    At my wife and my ages the next GE is a very long way away, and anyone who says they know the future trajectory of UK politics is wishcasting

    As for Badenoch I doubt she will last beyond May 26 unless she surprises on the upside, but if Jenrick arrives then anything could happen, and frankly I prefer Badenoch to continue than Jenrick take over
    I am not cheering their demise - the opposite. But as your party seems intent on destroying itself, can only sit on the outside and gawp at the spectacle.

    JENRICK: There's too many darkies!!!
    Badenoch: How dare you ask me about that? There's nothing wrong with opinions.

    It's the end of the road.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,827

    Ukraine have begun using the new anti-drone 70mm missiles.

    https://kyivindependent.com/thales-arms-maker-delivers-new-missiles-to-ukraine-designed-to-take-out-russian-drones/

    We'd previously heard that the US had bought the entirety of the supply available, but clearly some shuffling of delivery schedules has happened quietly.

    If you're talking about BAE's APKWS, whose production the US has booked up for the next two to three years, then this is a completely different missile, and a completely new design, I think.
    It's also much shorter range and about half the price (c $25k each, though that would likely come down with mass production if it proves useful in Ukraine).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,278
    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    That’s pretty damning from Sir John. What an awful thing to say. The Tories are bad but Lib Dem’s !!

    What is wrong with the Lib Dems?

    Labour are aimlessly treading water lost between Palestine and Israel and hamstrung by their ridiculous "no new taxes" pledge from 14 years in Opposition. Whilst the Tories, where do you start? And the Greens, loud, excitable and as green and mad as a bag of frogs. And as for Farage, magic remedies from the MAGA right, uncosted, unhinged and unquesttioned.
    At least the Greens and Reform have some interesting ideas, even if they are completely crazy. I think that is at least part of why Labour aren't doing well - I really hope the budget has something innovative it even if the kind of wholesale reform I want to see isn't there. Local fuel duty rates based on rurality index?
    I like the idea of local fuel duty, but isn't it utterly impractical? My car does nearly 1k miles on a tank, I already plan my filling points to buy fuel where it's cheapest. Local duty just means that everyone will fill up at rural locations rather than big cities (the cheapest place I go semi-regularly is currently a Morrisons in Breadbury, just off the M67, although if I'm anywhere near Whitchurch I get a tank full from DA Roberts in Grindley Brook - he's usually the UK's cheapest filling station).

    See - it's working because now we're talking about a hypothetical Labour policy.

    It would have to be gentle gradation between no fuel duty in Benbecula to full whack in central London. It would never be perfect and cause some perverse outcomes in some cases, but far far better than something entirely counter-productive like charging on mileage which harms rural communities and incentivises short journeys.

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.
    How’s about not taxing mobility.
    We don't, if you're rich and have an EV.

    Tax is only for the little people, don't you know?
    For many years, the Official Policy was that Hydrogen Fuel Cells would replace petrol - essentially, electric cars that generate their electricity from the combination of hydrogen and oxygen in a controlled reaction.

    The reason that this was official policy was that

    1) Hydrogen would be produced by the oil companies in existing refineries. So no job losses or massive economic effects. Small problem. This is bollocks. A facility to produce hydrogen is nothing like a refinery.

    2) Hydrogen could be piped through the natural gas network. Also bollocks - aside from the incompatibility of materials and hydrogen, the network is in the wrong places.

    3) people would fill up at reworked filling stations and be taxed as per petrol. Specific mention was made that pure electric vehicles would be next to impossible to tax on fuel and hence constraining usage would become very difficult.

    Aside from the additional problem of hydrogen fuel cell cars not actually existing (much)….
    A massive strategic blunder by the Japanese, who for a time were quite a way out in front in battery manufacturing.

    Had they gone all in on battery EVs, as China ended up doing, then they might now be challenging the Chinese manufacturers, and certainly the S Korean ones, but Toyota dragged its heels, while pouring billions into fuel cell development, for little or no return.

    We decided to do Brexit, instead.
    Toyota’s hybrid strategy will almost certainly turn out to be the best solution for the next decade.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,399
    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    That’s pretty damning from Sir John. What an awful thing to say. The Tories are bad but Lib Dem’s !!

    What is wrong with the Lib Dems?

    Labour are aimlessly treading water lost between Palestine and Israel and hamstrung by their ridiculous "no new taxes" pledge from 14 years in Opposition. Whilst the Tories, where do you start? And the Greens, loud, excitable and as green and mad as a bag of frogs. And as for Farage, magic remedies from the MAGA right, uncosted, unhinged and unquesttioned.
    At least the Greens and Reform have some interesting ideas, even if they are completely crazy. I think that is at least part of why Labour aren't doing well - I really hope the budget has something innovative it even if the kind of wholesale reform I want to see isn't there. Local fuel duty rates based on rurality index?
    I like the idea of local fuel duty, but isn't it utterly impractical? My car does nearly 1k miles on a tank, I already plan my filling points to buy fuel where it's cheapest. Local duty just means that everyone will fill up at rural locations rather than big cities (the cheapest place I go semi-regularly is currently a Morrisons in Breadbury, just off the M67, although if I'm anywhere near Whitchurch I get a tank full from DA Roberts in Grindley Brook - he's usually the UK's cheapest filling station).

    See - it's working because now we're talking about a hypothetical Labour policy.

    It would have to be gentle gradation between no fuel duty in Benbecula to full whack in central London. It would never be perfect and cause some perverse outcomes in some cases, but far far better than something entirely counter-productive like charging on mileage which harms rural communities and incentivises short journeys.

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.
    How’s about not taxing mobility.
    We don't, if you're rich and have an EV.

    Tax is only for the little people, don't you know?
    For many years, the Official Policy was that Hydrogen Fuel Cells would replace petrol - essentially, electric cars that generate their electricity from the combination of hydrogen and oxygen in a controlled reaction.

    The reason that this was official policy was that

    1) Hydrogen would be produced by the oil companies in existing refineries. So no job losses or massive economic effects. Small problem. This is bollocks. A facility to produce hydrogen is nothing like a refinery.

    2) Hydrogen could be piped through the natural gas network. Also bollocks - aside from the incompatibility of materials and hydrogen, the network is in the wrong places.

    3) people would fill up at reworked filling stations and be taxed as per petrol. Specific mention was made that pure electric vehicles would be next to impossible to tax on fuel and hence constraining usage would become very difficult.

    Aside from the additional problem of hydrogen fuel cell cars not actually existing (much)….
    A massive strategic blunder by the Japanese, who for a time were quite a way out in front in battery manufacturing.

    Had they gone all in on battery EVs, as China ended up doing, then they might now be challenging the Chinese manufacturers, and certainly the S Korean ones, but Toyota dragged its heels, while pouring billions into fuel cell development, for little or no return.

    We decided to do Brexit, instead.
    As batteries dropped in cost, engineers a Toyota suggested models of the Prius with ever larger battery capacity, leading to a 100% EV.

    Management hated the idea.

    If they’d gone that road, they’d have owned the EV market.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,426
    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine have begun using the new anti-drone 70mm missiles.

    https://kyivindependent.com/thales-arms-maker-delivers-new-missiles-to-ukraine-designed-to-take-out-russian-drones/

    We'd previously heard that the US had bought the entirety of the supply available, but clearly some shuffling of delivery schedules has happened quietly.

    If you're talking about BAE's APKWS, whose production the US has booked up for the next two to three years, then this is a completely different missile, and a completely new design, I think.
    It's also much shorter range and about half the price (c $25k each, though that would likely come down with mass production if it proves useful in Ukraine).
    Ah. I did have those two mixed up.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,278
    Remember yesterday’s Crimean oil depot that was on fire? Well it’s still very much on fire. 🔥
    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1975518739303985258

    Meanwhile, it looks like the deal for Tomahawks from the US might be done. These can hit the Shahed drone factory and the Kerch Bridge, as well as a load more O&G sites currently out of range of existing weapons. 💣
    https://x.com/kiraincongress/status/1975505313647223261
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,143
    Bobby NF says he has "uncovered dozens of judges' biased in favour of migrants"

    The bias is *the law* you spanner. And who passed these laws? That's right, YOU did.

    I understand now. The Tories are in the Upside Down. Where it is spelled Britian.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,457

    Sandpit said:

    F1: phenomenal stat:

    "In the last 17 seasons, Brawn GP and Ferrari have led the constructors' championship for the same number of races
    Brawn GP only competed in 1 of these 17 seasons"

    https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1975242276935995537

    There’s a rumour of a board meeting at Ferrari today, big boss turning up to read int riot act to the F1 team.

    They even gave Lewis a brilliant strategy, for the first time in months, and then had the same failure on both cars.
    With next year's regulations overhaul, if the rumours of the Mercedes engine being the best are true it could be another rough time for Ferrari.

    The main thing I'll be looking for in the 2026 driver market are the odds on Russell (with perhaps a look at Alonso), each way.
    Why Alonso - Aston have a new Honda engine next year
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,324

    Sean_F said:

    There’s a pretty disturbing report in today’s Times, about medical staff who post anti-Semitic drivel on social media, without any form of disciplinary sanction. So, Dr. Ramah Aladwen described Royal Free Hospital as a “Jewish supremacy cesspit”, and a picture of the Chief Rabbi with the caption, “Rabbi genocide”, and went before a tribunal which ruled that her words would not “alarm or concern” the public.

    How could any Jewish patient expect a professional service from this doctor?

    I’m quite sure I would be sanctioned by Solicitors Regulation Authority, if I did similarly.

    I am alarmed and concerned.
    It's just one reason why I won't declare my racial, sexual or religious identity when asked by public sector bodies.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,748
    Eabhal said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    Sean_F said:

    There’s a pretty disturbing report in today’s Times, about medical staff who post anti-Semitic drivel on social media, without any form of disciplinary sanction. So, Dr. Ramah Aladwen described Royal Free Hospital as a “Jewish supremacy cesspit”, and a picture of the Chief Rabbi with the caption, “Rabbi genocide”, and went before a tribunal which ruled that her words would not “alarm or concern” the public.

    How could any Jewish patient expect a professional service from this doctor?

    I’m quite sure I would be sanctioned by Solicitors Regulation Authority, if I did similarly.

    Particularly the reference to a hospital. I think public sector workers should be allowed to hold public opinions but not when it undermines the service they are providing.
    If you are in a public-facing profession, you should really keep politics to yourself and not post anything potentially controversial under your own name.

    Hospital patients, as a good example, often don’t get much of a choice of doctor.

    I use my Twitter for work, post only stuff about computers and technology, and don’t reply to others with anything more controversial than saying Lewis Hamilton got unlucky on Sunday. Apart from a few posters on here, I don’t directly follow a lot of political people either.
    It's a very large proportion of the population, particularly when you take into account contractors (what happens if a finance manager at Babcock mouthes off about UKG? Their business depends on UKG contracts).

    I'm a bit uncomfortable with restricting all those people in what they can say.
    I see there is a possible assumption here that there is (a) a problem with the public sector and (b) that any restrictions should only apply to public sector workers - though this is as likely to be an accidental fluke of the wording rather than intentional.

    Regardless of that, my last and very public sector employer had a firm policy in place - and implemented it right down to disciplinary action - that any comments on that employer's policy and doings to the media or in public comment had to be cleared with line management AND the public affairs dept in advance; or, indeed, handled solely by the PA dept. That would also include papers on professional matters which discussed the employer's doings, unless they were straightforward factual stuff (but even then I would trot them past my boss and the PA lady just to cover my bacvkside).

    AFAIK this is absolutely normal in the public sector.

    It was, for me, a very good way of getting rid of the stupid or annoying media inquiries - just put them through to PA.

    And it was actually quite sensibly done - after a year or so the PA lady knew me well enough that she was always very relaxed about me talking direct to the media about general stuff to do with my field (the equivalent of explaining that insects have six legs as opposed to Government decisions on individual SSSIs).

    There is, in any case, or should be, a mouthpiece for professional concerns in one's union (such as the BMA or the legal equivalents), or, for thatr matter, in the whistleblowing legislation, such as it is.

    An issue is perhaps how one defines one's employer. How widely does this reach for a NHS worker in England? Obviously not across the borders to NHS Scotland and Wales, but does it stop at the borders of one's trust?

    There is however also a separate question of *professional standards* and many employers would expect you to adhere to them.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,328
    edited 11:28AM


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
    Good morning

    The conservatives at present are in a dire position, but cheering their demise will hand Farage the keys to no 10 with a considerable majority.

    Years ago we had good Lib Dem representation, indeed one of friends was very active but you wouldn't know her politics as she concentrated on local issues

    Today they seem to have gone and largely stand as independents, and as for Wales they really have little or no influence

    What we are witnessing is the collapse of the main parties and trust in politics with Reform effectively attracting the NOA vote

    At my wife and my ages the next GE is a very long way away, and anyone who says they know the future trajectory of UK politics is wishcasting

    As for Badenoch I doubt she will last beyond May 26 unless she surprises on the upside, but if Jenrick arrives then anything could happen, and frankly I prefer Badenoch to continue than Jenrick take over
    I am not cheering their demise - the opposite. But as your party seems intent on destroying itself, can only sit on the outside and gawp at the spectacle.

    JENRICK: There's too many darkies!!!
    Badenoch: How dare you ask me about that? There's nothing wrong with opinions.

    It's the end of the road.
    Actual facts seem to be about 9-10% are described as some form of "white" for Handsworth in the 2021 census as far as I can see.

    And that's people just living there. During day will be lots of comings and goings of all sorts of workers, tradesmen, shoppers, visitors out on the streets he was filming in.

    So seems v unlikely he did not see a white face depending how many hours he was there filming. imho.

    https://www.cityobservatory.birmingham.gov.uk/explore/dataset/census-2021-ethnicity-birmingham-wards/table/?disjunctive.attribute_tier_1&disjunctive.attribute_tier_2&disjunctive.geography_name&disjunctive.geography_code&sort=geography_name&refine.geography_name=Handsworth



  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,324
    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    LOL
    Does that work both ways?

    I've been waiting for a £2k tax refund from HMRC since May; I've been told the end of November "at the earliest".

    Such bollocks. They're on a go-slow, deliberately, to help manage cashflow.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,067
    edited 11:32AM


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    Labour governments generally come down to internal party management, not least because of all the vested interest inside the party, and that tends towards endless triangulation and splitting the difference, with huge time, focus and resources devoted to internal negotiations, all of which leaves the public cold and does nothing to inspire either members or voters. Blair, during the period he bestrode the stage, managed to rise above all that, but if you look back to historic Labour governments it was just the same, and sadly Starmer doesn't even have Wilson's talent to keep lots of different plates spinning at once.
  • Sandpit said:

    F1: phenomenal stat:

    "In the last 17 seasons, Brawn GP and Ferrari have led the constructors' championship for the same number of races
    Brawn GP only competed in 1 of these 17 seasons"

    https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1975242276935995537

    There’s a rumour of a board meeting at Ferrari today, big boss turning up to read int riot act to the F1 team.

    They even gave Lewis a brilliant strategy, for the first time in months, and then had the same failure on both cars.
    To have a competitive package in modern F1 you need to have the best engineers in the business, and almost all of those are in England not Italy. Ferrari at least needs a UK design base where they can poach talent from McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes. But the Tifosi would probably fire-bomb the place in outrage...
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,143


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
    Good morning

    The conservatives at present are in a dire position, but cheering their demise will hand Farage the keys to no 10 with a considerable majority.

    Years ago we had good Lib Dem representation, indeed one of friends was very active but you wouldn't know her politics as she concentrated on local issues

    Today they seem to have gone and largely stand as independents, and as for Wales they really have little or no influence

    What we are witnessing is the collapse of the main parties and trust in politics with Reform effectively attracting the NOA vote

    At my wife and my ages the next GE is a very long way away, and anyone who says they know the future trajectory of UK politics is wishcasting

    As for Badenoch I doubt she will last beyond May 26 unless she surprises on the upside, but if Jenrick arrives then anything could happen, and frankly I prefer Badenoch to continue than Jenrick take over
    I am not cheering their demise - the opposite. But as your party seems intent on destroying itself, can only sit on the outside and gawp at the spectacle.

    JENRICK: There's too many darkies!!!
    Badenoch: How dare you ask me about that? There's nothing wrong with opinions.

    It's the end of the road.
    Actual facts seem to be about 9-10% are described as some form of "white" for Handsworth in the 2021 census as far as I can see.

    And that's people just living there. During day will be lots of comings and goings of all sorts of workers, tradesmen, shoppers, visitors out on the streets he was filming in.

    So seems v unlikely he did not see a white face depending how many hours he was there filming. imho.

    https://www.cityobservatory.birmingham.gov.uk/explore/dataset/census-2021-ethnicity-birmingham-wards/table/?disjunctive.attribute_tier_1&disjunctive.attribute_tier_2&disjunctive.geography_name&disjunctive.geography_code&sort=geography_name&refine.geography_name=Handsworth

    What happened in reality isn't really the issue, he *said this* thinking it would score him political points.

    So we have two electorates he is chasing - flag shagging racists, and elderly Tory pensioners who want to go back to the past.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,826


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
    Good morning

    The conservatives at present are in a dire position, but cheering their demise will hand Farage the keys to no 10 with a considerable majority.

    Years ago we had good Lib Dem representation, indeed one of friends was very active but you wouldn't know her politics as she concentrated on local issues

    Today they seem to have gone and largely stand as independents, and as for Wales they really have little or no influence

    What we are witnessing is the collapse of the main parties and trust in politics with Reform effectively attracting the NOA vote

    At my wife and my ages the next GE is a very long way away, and anyone who says they know the future trajectory of UK politics is wishcasting

    As for Badenoch I doubt she will last beyond May 26 unless she surprises on the upside, but if Jenrick arrives then anything could happen, and frankly I prefer Badenoch to continue than Jenrick take over
    I am not cheering their demise - the opposite. But as your party seems intent on destroying itself, can only sit on the outside and gawp at the spectacle.

    JENRICK: There's too many darkies!!!
    Badenoch: How dare you ask me about that? There's nothing wrong with opinions.

    It's the end of the road.
    Actual facts seem to be about 9-10% are described as some form of "white" for Handsworth in the 2021 census as far as I can see.

    And that's people just living there. During day will be lots of comings and goings of all sorts of workers, tradesmen, shoppers, visitors out on the streets he was filming in.

    So seems v unlikely he did not see a white face depending how many hours he was there filming. imho.

    https://www.cityobservatory.birmingham.gov.uk/explore/dataset/census-2021-ethnicity-birmingham-wards/table/?disjunctive.attribute_tier_1&disjunctive.attribute_tier_2&disjunctive.geography_name&disjunctive.geography_code&sort=geography_name&refine.geography_name=Handsworth



    How many 'hours'? Minutes, more like!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 31,143

    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    LOL
    Does that work both ways?

    I've been waiting for a £2k tax refund from HMRC since May; I've been told the end of November "at the earliest".

    Such bollocks. They're on a go-slow, deliberately, to help manage cashflow.
    Are you able to charge them interest as they would if you owed them £2k?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,399

    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    LOL
    Does that work both ways?

    I've been waiting for a £2k tax refund from HMRC since May; I've been told the end of November "at the earliest".

    Such bollocks. They're on a go-slow, deliberately, to help manage cashflow.
    Many years back, a company took either HMRC or Inland Revenue (I forget which) to court for non payment. It was years. The judge sent the bailiffs in to confiscate equipment - computers, desks etc.

    Within about 24 hours the government bought in a law change. Protecting all government offices from asset seizure for debt.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,328


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
    Good morning

    The conservatives at present are in a dire position, but cheering their demise will hand Farage the keys to no 10 with a considerable majority.

    Years ago we had good Lib Dem representation, indeed one of friends was very active but you wouldn't know her politics as she concentrated on local issues

    Today they seem to have gone and largely stand as independents, and as for Wales they really have little or no influence

    What we are witnessing is the collapse of the main parties and trust in politics with Reform effectively attracting the NOA vote

    At my wife and my ages the next GE is a very long way away, and anyone who says they know the future trajectory of UK politics is wishcasting

    As for Badenoch I doubt she will last beyond May 26 unless she surprises on the upside, but if Jenrick arrives then anything could happen, and frankly I prefer Badenoch to continue than Jenrick take over
    I am not cheering their demise - the opposite. But as your party seems intent on destroying itself, can only sit on the outside and gawp at the spectacle.

    JENRICK: There's too many darkies!!!
    Badenoch: How dare you ask me about that? There's nothing wrong with opinions.

    It's the end of the road.
    Actual facts seem to be about 9-10% are described as some form of "white" for Handsworth in the 2021 census as far as I can see.

    And that's people just living there. During day will be lots of comings and goings of all sorts of workers, tradesmen, shoppers, visitors out on the streets he was filming in.

    So seems v unlikely he did not see a white face depending how many hours he was there filming. imho.

    https://www.cityobservatory.birmingham.gov.uk/explore/dataset/census-2021-ethnicity-birmingham-wards/table/?disjunctive.attribute_tier_1&disjunctive.attribute_tier_2&disjunctive.geography_name&disjunctive.geography_code&sort=geography_name&refine.geography_name=Handsworth

    What happened in reality isn't really the issue, he *said this* thinking it would score him political points.

    So we have two electorates he is chasing - flag shagging racists, and elderly Tory pensioners who want to go back to the past.
    I definitely get your point but my point more was that he was, I suspect - although cannot prove, making this up for a group of dinner party guests who he knew would nod along.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,827
    edited 11:37AM
    .

    Nigelb said:

    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    Eabhal said:

    theProle said:

    Eabhal said:

    Taz said:

    That’s pretty damning from Sir John. What an awful thing to say. The Tories are bad but Lib Dem’s !!

    What is wrong with the Lib Dems?

    Labour are aimlessly treading water lost between Palestine and Israel and hamstrung by their ridiculous "no new taxes" pledge from 14 years in Opposition. Whilst the Tories, where do you start? And the Greens, loud, excitable and as green and mad as a bag of frogs. And as for Farage, magic remedies from the MAGA right, uncosted, unhinged and unquesttioned.
    At least the Greens and Reform have some interesting ideas, even if they are completely crazy. I think that is at least part of why Labour aren't doing well - I really hope the budget has something innovative it even if the kind of wholesale reform I want to see isn't there. Local fuel duty rates based on rurality index?
    I like the idea of local fuel duty, but isn't it utterly impractical? My car does nearly 1k miles on a tank, I already plan my filling points to buy fuel where it's cheapest. Local duty just means that everyone will fill up at rural locations rather than big cities (the cheapest place I go semi-regularly is currently a Morrisons in Breadbury, just off the M67, although if I'm anywhere near Whitchurch I get a tank full from DA Roberts in Grindley Brook - he's usually the UK's cheapest filling station).

    See - it's working because now we're talking about a hypothetical Labour policy.

    It would have to be gentle gradation between no fuel duty in Benbecula to full whack in central London. It would never be perfect and cause some perverse outcomes in some cases, but far far better than something entirely counter-productive like charging on mileage which harms rural communities and incentivises short journeys.

    The best motoring tax would be a flat £1 charge per journey.
    How’s about not taxing mobility.
    We don't, if you're rich and have an EV.

    Tax is only for the little people, don't you know?
    For many years, the Official Policy was that Hydrogen Fuel Cells would replace petrol - essentially, electric cars that generate their electricity from the combination of hydrogen and oxygen in a controlled reaction.

    The reason that this was official policy was that

    1) Hydrogen would be produced by the oil companies in existing refineries. So no job losses or massive economic effects. Small problem. This is bollocks. A facility to produce hydrogen is nothing like a refinery.

    2) Hydrogen could be piped through the natural gas network. Also bollocks - aside from the incompatibility of materials and hydrogen, the network is in the wrong places.

    3) people would fill up at reworked filling stations and be taxed as per petrol. Specific mention was made that pure electric vehicles would be next to impossible to tax on fuel and hence constraining usage would become very difficult.

    Aside from the additional problem of hydrogen fuel cell cars not actually existing (much)….
    A massive strategic blunder by the Japanese, who for a time were quite a way out in front in battery manufacturing.

    Had they gone all in on battery EVs, as China ended up doing, then they might now be challenging the Chinese manufacturers, and certainly the S Korean ones, but Toyota dragged its heels, while pouring billions into fuel cell development, for little or no return.

    We decided to do Brexit, instead.
    As batteries dropped in cost, engineers a Toyota suggested models of the Prius with ever larger battery capacity, leading to a 100% EV.

    Management hated the idea.

    If they’d gone that road, they’d have owned the EV market.
    Toyota might still do OK, as it's still the world's largest car manufacturer, generating a lot of cash, so has the resources to manage the transition.
    But Japan, which owned the global rechargeable battery market for the best part of two decades, first lost leadership to S Korea, and then got left in the dust alongside them, as Chinese production snowballed.

    And ultra cheap batteries in huge volumes, which aren't that far off now, will give EVs almost the entire market.

    Chinese domination of rare earth refining also gives them a big competitive advantage.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,118


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
    Good morning

    The conservatives at present are in a dire position, but cheering their demise will hand Farage the keys to no 10 with a considerable majority.

    Years ago we had good Lib Dem representation, indeed one of friends was very active but you wouldn't know her politics as she concentrated on local issues

    Today they seem to have gone and largely stand as independents, and as for Wales they really have little or no influence

    What we are witnessing is the collapse of the main parties and trust in politics with Reform effectively attracting the NOA vote

    At my wife and my ages the next GE is a very long way away, and anyone who says they know the future trajectory of UK politics is wishcasting

    As for Badenoch I doubt she will last beyond May 26 unless she surprises on the upside, but if Jenrick arrives then anything could happen, and frankly I prefer Badenoch to continue than Jenrick take over
    I am not cheering their demise - the opposite. But as your party seems intent on destroying itself, can only sit on the outside and gawp at the spectacle.

    JENRICK: There's too many darkies!!!
    Badenoch: How dare you ask me about that? There's nothing wrong with opinions.

    It's the end of the road.
    Actual facts seem to be about 9-10% are described as some form of "white" for Handsworth in the 2021 census as far as I can see.

    And that's people just living there. During day will be lots of comings and goings of all sorts of workers, tradesmen, shoppers, visitors out on the streets he was filming in.

    So seems v unlikely he did not see a white face depending how many hours he was there filming. imho.

    https://www.cityobservatory.birmingham.gov.uk/explore/dataset/census-2021-ethnicity-birmingham-wards/table/?disjunctive.attribute_tier_1&disjunctive.attribute_tier_2&disjunctive.geography_name&disjunctive.geography_code&sort=geography_name&refine.geography_name=Handsworth



    Maybe he was just unlucky. Or (more likely) he wasn't looking very hard.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 57,278

    Sandpit said:

    F1: phenomenal stat:

    "In the last 17 seasons, Brawn GP and Ferrari have led the constructors' championship for the same number of races
    Brawn GP only competed in 1 of these 17 seasons"

    https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1975242276935995537

    There’s a rumour of a board meeting at Ferrari today, big boss turning up to read int riot act to the F1 team.

    They even gave Lewis a brilliant strategy, for the first time in months, and then had the same failure on both cars.
    To have a competitive package in modern F1 you need to have the best engineers in the business, and almost all of those are in England not Italy. Ferrari at least needs a UK design base where they can poach talent from McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes. But the Tifosi would probably fire-bomb the place in outrage...
    They actually tried that once before, when John Barnard was their design chief.

    It eventually got shut down when the Italians realised they couldn’t micromanage them if they were in England!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,324

    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    LOL
    Does that work both ways?

    I've been waiting for a £2k tax refund from HMRC since May; I've been told the end of November "at the earliest".

    Such bollocks. They're on a go-slow, deliberately, to help manage cashflow.
    Are you able to charge them interest as they would if you owed them £2k?
    Oh, I'd love to.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,324

    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    LOL
    Does that work both ways?

    I've been waiting for a £2k tax refund from HMRC since May; I've been told the end of November "at the earliest".

    Such bollocks. They're on a go-slow, deliberately, to help manage cashflow.
    Many years back, a company took either HMRC or Inland Revenue (I forget which) to court for non payment. It was years. The judge sent the bailiffs in to confiscate equipment - computers, desks etc.

    Within about 24 hours the government bought in a law change. Protecting all government offices from asset seizure for debt.
    Funny that. The power of the State only works one way.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,328


    All hail the brilliance of Sir Ed Davey.

    He is endlessly sneered at by mainly Tories as he quietly goes about building a machine to win seats and build a base...

    I thought the Tory conference would be bad, I had no idea it would be this bad. You cannot outflank refuk to the right and yet that is still the Badenoch play. The Big Policy Announcements ripping up the work of their own governments - Coutinho slagging off the policies of SofS Coutinho being the funniest of the lot.

    And then the Thatcher worship. A fucking museum this year. Of a woman who would not be welcome in today's Tory party as despite her economic policies the aim was to lift working people - a very strong safety net to catch the people at the bottom, significant investment into regions, Britain at the heart of international order, free trade. All now heresy in todays ReformCosplay and ScrewtheUnion party.
    While the Conservatives are suffering (largely self-inflicted woe) the Lib Dems should not be feeling smug.

    We have two main parties, both very very unpopular. Cui bono? Not the Lib Dems. They've been eclipsed by the latest Farage vehicle, content to be the approved party of Waitrose shoppers in leafy suburbs, uncontaminated by the need to appeal to the Great Unwashed, unsullied by the vulgarity of popular support.

    Which is a shame, because, for all their wrongness about many things, I think the Lib Dems would be far better/less bad for the country than Prime Minister Nigel Farage, which is what we may end up with after the next election.
    The LibDems don't appear to have a coherent concept of Government, rather than an assembly of miscellaneous ideas - they seem subconsciously to accept the idea that they're a supporting party rather than an alternative government, and I think their mediocre national poll rating reflects that, though the focus on winnable seats pays off. Reform do appear to see themselves as a possible government, albeit a bonkers one. I'd like to feel that Labour does too, not least as we're actually in Government (and I'm a CLP chair), but we seem locked into tactical planning, keeping the show on the road, not breaking explicit promises and occasionally making a gesture to one wing or another.
    This is a reasonable critique of the LibDems. What we are missing is Big Picture politics and so far we've been as timid as the other parties. Signs of life though - standing up to the authoritarian axis (Trump / Putin / Farage).

    Starmer's government is continuity Sunak.
    BadEnoch has gone bye bye - and is being threatened by badder "all I see are darkies" Jenrick
    We know that half of what Reform say is gibberish. Like Kent county council you can't translate slogans into policy, especially when the slogan isn't anchored in reality. But there is a vision.

    Poll after poll shows the LibDems growing as the LabCon collapse, but there isn't another great leap forward because we lack the vision thing. Here is mine: a new Beveridge report to rewrite the social economy.
    Good morning

    The conservatives at present are in a dire position, but cheering their demise will hand Farage the keys to no 10 with a considerable majority.

    Years ago we had good Lib Dem representation, indeed one of friends was very active but you wouldn't know her politics as she concentrated on local issues

    Today they seem to have gone and largely stand as independents, and as for Wales they really have little or no influence

    What we are witnessing is the collapse of the main parties and trust in politics with Reform effectively attracting the NOA vote

    At my wife and my ages the next GE is a very long way away, and anyone who says they know the future trajectory of UK politics is wishcasting

    As for Badenoch I doubt she will last beyond May 26 unless she surprises on the upside, but if Jenrick arrives then anything could happen, and frankly I prefer Badenoch to continue than Jenrick take over
    I am not cheering their demise - the opposite. But as your party seems intent on destroying itself, can only sit on the outside and gawp at the spectacle.

    JENRICK: There's too many darkies!!!
    Badenoch: How dare you ask me about that? There's nothing wrong with opinions.

    It's the end of the road.
    Actual facts seem to be about 9-10% are described as some form of "white" for Handsworth in the 2021 census as far as I can see.

    And that's people just living there. During day will be lots of comings and goings of all sorts of workers, tradesmen, shoppers, visitors out on the streets he was filming in.

    So seems v unlikely he did not see a white face depending how many hours he was there filming. imho.

    https://www.cityobservatory.birmingham.gov.uk/explore/dataset/census-2021-ethnicity-birmingham-wards/table/?disjunctive.attribute_tier_1&disjunctive.attribute_tier_2&disjunctive.geography_name&disjunctive.geography_code&sort=geography_name&refine.geography_name=Handsworth



    How many 'hours'? Minutes, more like!
    BBC saying they have been told he was there for an hour and a half.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,970
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    F1: phenomenal stat:

    "In the last 17 seasons, Brawn GP and Ferrari have led the constructors' championship for the same number of races
    Brawn GP only competed in 1 of these 17 seasons"

    https://x.com/F1BigData/status/1975242276935995537

    There’s a rumour of a board meeting at Ferrari today, big boss turning up to read int riot act to the F1 team.

    They even gave Lewis a brilliant strategy, for the first time in months, and then had the same failure on both cars.
    With next year's regulations overhaul, if the rumours of the Mercedes engine being the best are true it could be another rough time for Ferrari.

    The main thing I'll be looking for in the 2026 driver market are the odds on Russell (with perhaps a look at Alonso), each way.
    Why Alonso - Aston have a new Honda engine next year
    That is true, and while consensus seems to be Mercedes will have the best engine it's also rumoured Honda might be rather good. Alonso's still very fast and Newey's a top designer, though that may matter slightly less with the engine regulations.

    Plus, if Mercedes has a reliability problem as per this year that could aid Alonso.

    My main focus, though, will be the Russell odds. He's driving very well, has the whip hand over Antonelli, and McLaren's drivers are likely to take points off each other. Plus, the market sometimes underestimates Russell. He was 12 for pole in Singapore, and about 4 (4.6, on checking) to win in Canada despite starting on pole.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,352
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,583
    edited 11:41AM
    Andy_JS said:

    Taz said:

    Are there many seats outside of Devon/Cornwall where Reform would be challenging the Lib Dem’s.

    I cannot see Lib Dem’s stopping Reform merely taking Tory/Labour rural seats.

    There are one or two like Eastbourne, North Norfolk, but they're long shots for Reform.
    I reckon Josh Babarinde in Eastbourne will have a 10,000+ majority. He's building up a big personal vote with a strong brand.
    North Norfolk is possible.
    I'd offer up Brecon etc, Tiverton & Minehead and Eastleigh as seats to watch defensively for Reform danger.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,887
    What is it about Wolverhampton? The place spawned Powell and now Thrift Shop Powell.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,748

    AnneJGP said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Digital ID cards pave way for £600m tax grab
    HMRC hopes to use online identification to secure unpaid revenue and prevent ‘errors’"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/10/07/digital-id-cards-pave-way-for-600m-tax-grab

    LOL
    Does that work both ways?

    I've been waiting for a £2k tax refund from HMRC since May; I've been told the end of November "at the earliest".

    Such bollocks. They're on a go-slow, deliberately, to help manage cashflow.
    Are you able to charge them interest as they would if you owed them £2k?
    Oh, I'd love to.
    They usually pay interest anyway. I got some last year.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,677
    The legal profession never misses an opportunity to sue people even if it’s other lawyers

    https://www.legalfutures.co.uk/latest-news/law-firm-takes-down-mazur-advice-after-unprofessional-responses
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 9,112
    Jenrick is obviously lying. Nobody could spend an hour and a half on the streets of Handsworth, or anywhere else in the UK, without seeing a "white face" unless they had their eyes glued to the pavement.

    By contrast, there are still lots of places in the UK where you could wander around for an hour and a half and not see any "non-white" faces. But I wouldn't call them enclaves or accuse them of a lack of integration.
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