Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I couldn't give a toss about it, myself.
Not sure repeatedly stating that you don't care about something has quite the intended effect.
Did we do that Google (Youtube) gave in and ponied up $24m to Trump to "settle" a frivolous lawsuit ? I missed it last week.
YouTube agrees to pay Trump $24 million to settle lawsuit over Jan. 6 suspension
YouTube will pay $24.5 million to President Trump to resolve a 2021 lawsuit that claimed he was the victim of censorship when the site suspended his account following the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump's supporters, according to federal court papers filed on Monday.
It's the latest settlement reached by a tech company sued by Trump in the wake of the Capitol riots. In January, Meta paid the president $25 million over Facebook's and Instagram's decision to suspend Trump after Jan. 6. Elon Musk's X, formerly Twitter, paid out $10 million over similar allegations. https://www.npr.org/2025/09/29/nx-s1-5557371/youtube-trump-lawsuit-settlement
To be fair to Trump demanding fealty taxes via lawsuits is a brilliant angle on corruption.
Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.
Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.
I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.
It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.
As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.
The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.
From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
My apologies for my anger on this topic.
I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.
However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.
It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.
And I find that appalling.
Your problem is that you are lumping the vast majority of people peacefully protesting with an extremist fringe.
The majority are seeing genocide take place in front of their eyes and they want to stop that happening.
Israel is committing said crime, their government has invited Tommy Robinson as an ally to Israel.
I work for an identifiably Jewish bank, we get regular updates from the police/intelligence services/government about protests.
so for example I knew at the start of last week that there was a pro Palestine march scheduled in Piccadilly on Thursday.
I also know a lot of these protests are planned well in advance and the organisers do not give the police advance notice so when you said the protests on Thursday night were scheduled after the attack was wrong.
The biggest threat at work is from the far right (who think we fund antifa and Muslim immigrants) and the hard left, not pro Palestinian protesters.
I would like to meet these far right activists wanting to know why a Jewish firm wants more Muslims in the UK.
Someone on a previous thread pointed out that some protests on Thursday (not the Manchester one) were *not* planned. I think one was in Glasgow?
"Your problem is that you are lumping the vast majority of people peacefully protesting with an extremist fringe."
And your problem (and theirs...) is that they are not chucking out the extremist fringe, but acting in concert with them.
Many Jews in this country are living in fear. And protesting this weekend, so soon after a terrorist attack on the Jewish community, amplifies that fear. Still protesting on Thursday is unbelievably crass.
Hopefully, you will know that I have zero care for the far right. I detest them, as I have made clear on many occasions.
No, they were planned before, just not told to the police in advance, unlike the Manchester one.
IIRC Tuesday's briefing said a protest is scheduled in Manchester but based on previous occasions we would expect similar ones in major cities.
I'm unsure what your point is. Surely until the police are informed, it's not particularly organised, is it?
Besides, I'll repeat what I said earlier: "Many Jews in this country are living in fear. And protesting this weekend, so soon after a terrorist attack on the Jewish community, amplifies that fear. Still protesting on Thursday is unbelievably crass."
They should have left it a week. The fact they did not says nothing good about the protestors.
Did we do that Google (Youtube) gave in and ponied up $24m to Trump to "settle" a frivolous lawsuit ? I missed it last week.
YouTube agrees to pay Trump $24 million to settle lawsuit over Jan. 6 suspension
YouTube will pay $24.5 million to President Trump to resolve a 2021 lawsuit that claimed he was the victim of censorship when the site suspended his account following the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump's supporters, according to federal court papers filed on Monday.
It's the latest settlement reached by a tech company sued by Trump in the wake of the Capitol riots. In January, Meta paid the president $25 million over Facebook's and Instagram's decision to suspend Trump after Jan. 6. Elon Musk's X, formerly Twitter, paid out $10 million over similar allegations. https://www.npr.org/2025/09/29/nx-s1-5557371/youtube-trump-lawsuit-settlement
I think that one security question that has not been considered sufficiently in Europe is what happens if Trump throws a tantrum and eg orders Google or Facebook to turn off Europe. He's been off "Free Speech" recently, and I have not noticed much from Toxic Elon recently * - but it's a very great dependency.
* We seem to be more domestically focused over the last several months. I don't think we would miss twitter; losing that would be a good thing for political life.
Did we do that Google (Youtube) gave in and ponied up $24m to Trump to "settle" a frivolous lawsuit ? I missed it last week.
YouTube agrees to pay Trump $24 million to settle lawsuit over Jan. 6 suspension
YouTube will pay $24.5 million to President Trump to resolve a 2021 lawsuit that claimed he was the victim of censorship when the site suspended his account following the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump's supporters, according to federal court papers filed on Monday.
It's the latest settlement reached by a tech company sued by Trump in the wake of the Capitol riots. In January, Meta paid the president $25 million over Facebook's and Instagram's decision to suspend Trump after Jan. 6. Elon Musk's X, formerly Twitter, paid out $10 million over similar allegations. https://www.npr.org/2025/09/29/nx-s1-5557371/youtube-trump-lawsuit-settlement
They should send the bills to Biden, Garland and any other Dem who thought it a good idea to delay Trump's prosecution long enough for him to still become the GOP candidate.
I take the point, and these things need to be dealt with with sensitivity (ha!) and nuance (again, ha!) but we cannot preserve our laws, treaties and international obligations in aspic for eternity, if it is felt that those arrangements need to change.
One of the things that has led to this crisis of confidence in the West is the idea that there are untouchable policies, institutions, truths, ways of doing things that the electorate cannot disturb.
100% agreed we need to follow trump in moving away from the globalist agenda including tariffs and nato to make sure we are putting Britain first
Tariffs on Chinese imports maybe not our friends.
NATO is our main defence against Russia
They were just examples don’t get too hung up on them
But how does nato defend us from Russia? Esp since Russia has shown to be a paper tiger they cant even take over Ukraine they are provably less of a threat now than at any other time in the last century.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I tend to think that there would be less Islamic terrorism if the conflict between Israel and Palestine was brought to an end. So I think there is a relevance to Britain, albeit I think that the threat from Russia is greater and the war in Ukraine more important.
Secondly, if you accept the judgement that there is a genocide in Gaza, then you can argue it is of the upmost importance that Britain does nothing to assist in that genocide, and does what it can to stop it.
Thirdly, Jewish people in Britain are less safe now than previously, and this continues to deteriorate. They will either push back against those they believe are responsible for making them less safe, or they will leave Britain. I hope that they do not leave Britain.
Setting it out in this way I find it hard to see how this would not be a source of polarisation and anger. We are talking of deadly important things, and literal fear for the lives of oneself and one's family - terrorism, genocide, persecution.
But at the same time. Yes. Bored now. Could they not just learn to live with each other? The future is more important than the past, and they could just choose not to kill each other from now on.
Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.
Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.
I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.
It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.
As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.
The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.
From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
My apologies for my anger on this topic.
I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.
However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.
It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.
And I find that appalling.
Your problem is that you are lumping the vast majority of people peacefully protesting with an extremist fringe.
The majority are seeing genocide take place in front of their eyes and they want to stop that happening.
Israel is committing said crime, their government has invited Tommy Robinson as an ally to Israel.
I work for an identifiably Jewish bank, we get regular updates from the police/intelligence services/government about protests.
so for example I knew at the start of last week that there was a pro Palestine march scheduled in Piccadilly on Thursday.
I also know a lot of these protests are planned well in advance and the organisers do not give the police advance notice so when you said the protests on Thursday night were scheduled after the attack was wrong.
The biggest threat at work is from the far right (who think we fund antifa and Muslim immigrants) and the hard left, not pro Palestinian protesters.
I would like to meet these far right activists wanting to know why a Jewish firm wants more Muslims in the UK.
Someone on a previous thread pointed out that some protests on Thursday (not the Manchester one) were *not* planned. I think one was in Glasgow?
"Your problem is that you are lumping the vast majority of people peacefully protesting with an extremist fringe."
And your problem (and theirs...) is that they are not chucking out the extremist fringe, but acting in concert with them.
Many Jews in this country are living in fear. And protesting this weekend, so soon after a terrorist attack on the Jewish community, amplifies that fear. Still protesting on Thursday is unbelievably crass.
Hopefully, you will know that I have zero care for the far right. I detest them, as I have made clear on many occasions.
No, they were planned before, just not told to the police in advance, unlike the Manchester one.
IIRC Tuesday's briefing said a protest is scheduled in Manchester but based on previous occasions we would expect similar ones in major cities.
I'm unsure what your point is. Surely until the police are informed, it's not particularly organised, is it?
Besides, I'll repeat what I said earlier: "Many Jews in this country are living in fear. And protesting this weekend, so soon after a terrorist attack on the Jewish community, amplifies that fear. Still protesting on Thursday is unbelievably crass."
They should have left it a week. The fact they did not says nothing good about the protestors.
Pretty much all of the protests are organised (usually on social media) but most of them let the police know, but some don't tell the police so the police cannot reject their plans or have enough rozzers in place to arrest peaceful protestors.
They were planned to coincide with Ms Thunberg's flotilla.
If the short rule of Keir Starmer has taught us anything it's that chasing populist votes gets you nowhere. It's particularly ineffective now with parties to both left and right.
The prescription for winning next time is simple. Stay roughly in the centre and be your own person and don't be afraid to go against the grain. As my first boss-an emminent photographer- said to me; "if you want to get to the top when everyone else zigs-zag".
Starmer's problems have very little to do with chasing the populist vote.
Put simply, his problem is that he is not very good. He seems to have only nebulous objectives, and no plan as to how to reach them. If he does have a plan, he cannot sell it. And the team he has selected to surround him have similar flaws. He also cannot bring his party together.
Compare with Blair. For all his faults, he had clear objectives (perhaps too clear...) and plans as to how to get there (even if some did not work). And he sold that plan well, in part because he had a very effective and skilful team around him. He also managed to get his party unified, at least for his first term.
Labour - heck, the country - really need a 1997-style government, whether Conservative or Labour.
Blair had lots of money to play with. I think that’s the key differentiator. Put him back there in 97, with all his political skills but with a low growth economy and maxed out public finances, and he'd have floundered with the best of them. No 'vision' or 'narrative' or 'plan' would have made much of a difference.
Civil Service flies in hundreds of foreign staff despite vow to cut migration Contrary to Labour pledge to bring situation under control, hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ ... Whitehall departments have sponsored 400 visas for foreign staff and paid £626,000 in fees to allow them to work in the UK in the last year.
If the short rule of Keir Starmer has taught us anything it's that chasing populist votes gets you nowhere. It's particularly ineffective now with parties to both left and right.
The prescription for winning next time is simple. Stay roughly in the centre and be your own person and don't be afraid to go against the grain. As my first boss-an emminent photographer- said to me; "if you want to get to the top when everyone else zigs-zag".
Starmer's problems have very little to do with chasing the populist vote.
Put simply, his problem is that he is not very good. He seems to have only nebulous objectives, and no plan as to how to reach them. If he does have a plan, he cannot sell it. And the team he has selected to surround him have similar flaws. He also cannot bring his party together.
Compare with Blair. For all his faults, he had clear objectives (perhaps too clear...) and plans as to how to get there (even if some did not work). And he sold that plan well, in part because he had a very effective and skilful team around him. He also managed to get his party unified, at least for his first term.
Labour - heck, the country - really need a 1997-style government, whether Conservative or Labour.
Blair had lots of money to play with. I think that’s the key differentiator. Put him back there in 97, with all his political skills but with a low growth economy and maxed out public finances, and he'd have floundered with the best of them. No 'vision' or 'narrative' or 'plan' would have made much of a difference.
I think the good economy the Tories handed over in 1997 did help Blair. I agree.
But the point remains that Blair had key skills that Starmer does not. So I'll reverse it: if Starmer had been in charge in 1997, they would not have won in 2005.
He simple does not have the skills to be PM, and I very much doubt he has the capacity to learn those skills in time.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I tend to think that there would be less Islamic terrorism if the conflict between Israel and Palestine was brought to an end. So I think there is a relevance to Britain, albeit I think that the threat from Russia is greater and the war in Ukraine more important.
Secondly, if you accept the judgement that there is a genocide in Gaza, then you can argue it is of the upmost importance that Britain does nothing to assist in that genocide, and does what it can to stop it.
Thirdly, Jewish people in Britain are less safe now than previously, and this continues to deteriorate. They will either push back against those they believe are responsible for making them less safe, or they will leave Britain. I hope that they do not leave Britain.
Setting it out in this way I find it hard to see how this would not be a source of polarisation and anger. We are talking of deadly important things, and literal fear for the lives of oneself and one's family - terrorism, genocide, persecution.
But at the same time. Yes. Bored now. Could they not just learn to live with each other? The future is more important than the past, and they could just choose not to kill each other from now on.
Fourthly, I would add to your list that Muslim people in Britain are less safe now than previously, and this continues to deteriorate. There is rampant Islamaphobia in society, expressed daily in parts of the media and on social media.
On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?
Yes, the muslim who moved there and gets asked, so are you a Catholic Muslim or a Protestant Muslim?
As a Muslim I would definitely be a Catholic as I would love confession, I could brag about confess my sins then get told to say 100 Hail Marys and I would be forgiven.
I’ll never understand why the media is so focused on Jews and trans. The uk gets more migrants in one year than the Jewish and trans population combined!
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
Correct , far too many tossers with too much time on their hands, fit tehm better to look at the shit state of the UK due to their stupidity and fecklessness.
Simon Jenkins comparing Reform unfavourably with SDP 81
So much political reporting - personified by the BBC’s Messrs Mason and Kuennsberg - and even infecting the great pollster John Curtice is now locked in a morass of day to day hysteria. Jenkins is right. Farage has close to zero chance of being PM - ever.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
In terms of split, it's a pretty firm majority in favour of Palestine/against Netanyahu whichever way you cut it. For Palestine statehood it's more than 2:1; nearly 2:1 for the Palestinians on the "what side" question (with lots of both sides too). 3:1 against what the IDF is doing in Gaza. About 50% of people think it amounts to genocide.
I think the key difference is how the UK Government is responding to such public opinion. The protests are as much against our government as the Israeli one - and the sense that we are abdicating our responsbilities under the Genocide Convention. People often ask why there aren't such protests against what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Well, we are actually funding and arming the Ukrainians...
The Ukrainians are the ones attacked by the Russians.
The Israelis are the ones attacked by Hamas.
We should be actually funding and arming the Israelis until Hamas surrenders unconditionally.
Yebbut what about the post you were pretending to respond to, are the majority of British people just wrong? I thought you were all in favour of democracy.
I'm voting for the Party led by a British Jew.
Surely everybody who doesn't follow suit must be antisemitic!
Simon Jenkins comparing Reform unfavourably with SDP 81
So much political reporting - personified by the BBC’s Messrs Mason and Kuennsberg - and even infecting the great pollster John Curtice is now locked in a morass of day to day hysteria. Jenkins is right. Farage has close to zero chance of being PM - ever.
Do the Tories really want another 8 months of Kemi ?
It’s painful to watch .
I really would not expect you to say anything else to be fair
If she was pleasing you she really would have a problem
I would prefer Kemi to succeed in order to see off the vile Jenrick. Today's interventions are not helpful.
Mind you pretending they weren't in Government during the Boriswave is possibly a tactic of outright genius.
On a more serious note Starmer successfully moved labour away from Corbyn over his time in opposition, and that is something Badenoch, or whoever is the conservative leader is, has to achieve in respect of the last conservative government
It will take time and on some policies they will be near to Reform but with softer edges
I listen to the view the conservative party is irrelevant and in terminal decline, but if that does materialise than it will be PM Farage and neither of us want that under any circumstances
You might have to overcome your very own Corbyn style extremist in the form of Bob before your Party returns to the centre.
Did we do that Google (Youtube) gave in and ponied up $24m to Trump to "settle" a frivolous lawsuit ? I missed it last week.
YouTube agrees to pay Trump $24 million to settle lawsuit over Jan. 6 suspension
YouTube will pay $24.5 million to President Trump to resolve a 2021 lawsuit that claimed he was the victim of censorship when the site suspended his account following the Jan. 6, 2021 attack on the U.S. Capitol by Trump's supporters, according to federal court papers filed on Monday.
It's the latest settlement reached by a tech company sued by Trump in the wake of the Capitol riots. In January, Meta paid the president $25 million over Facebook's and Instagram's decision to suspend Trump after Jan. 6. Elon Musk's X, formerly Twitter, paid out $10 million over similar allegations. https://www.npr.org/2025/09/29/nx-s1-5557371/youtube-trump-lawsuit-settlement
They should send the bills to Biden, Garland and any other Dem who thought it a good idea to delay Trump's prosecution long enough for him to still become the GOP candidate.
I don't know if it was church or registry office when you got wedded to this nonsense, Richard, but I hope it was a good day and you live happily ever after.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I couldn't give a toss about it, myself.
However I cannot understand the moronic UK people in their millions who hate Jews, it is unbelievable.
I await her details on this subject which apparently follows a review by David Wolfson who is a barrister
What has become increasingly obvious the powers of the ECHR are seen as a problem, and not just with Farage declaration to leave, and now Badenoch's, but also Starmer is wanting changes
Some on the right have picked the ECHR as a bogeyman. They want to rekindle the Brexit debate and so have picked on something else with European in its name. The actual day-to-day impact of the ECHR on our lives is not great.
The ECHR is not responsible for unaffordable housing, for insecure employment, for all-powerful tech companies creating monopolies. The ECHR is not responsible for cancer or dementia or long COVID. The ECHR does not cause rape or assaults or mobile phone theft. The ECHR is not why it's difficult to see a GP or book a driving test.
Badenoch's announcement is clickbait as politics, not a serious attempt to make our lives better.
Simon Jenkins comparing Reform unfavourably with SDP 81
So much political reporting - personified by the BBC’s Messrs Mason and Kuennsberg - and even infecting the great pollster John Curtice is now locked in a morass of day to day hysteria. Jenkins is right. Farage has close to zero chance of being PM - ever.
Oh dear. Now that Jenkins and Hutton have used their unparalleled judgement to declare that Farage cannot become PM it is looking more likely than ever.
Jenkins is one of those people who is incredibly reliably wrong about almost everything.
Civil Service flies in hundreds of foreign staff despite vow to cut migration Contrary to Labour pledge to bring situation under control, hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ ... Whitehall departments have sponsored 400 visas for foreign staff and paid £626,000 in fees to allow them to work in the UK in the last year.
I take the point, and these things need to be dealt with with sensitivity (ha!) and nuance (again, ha!) but we cannot preserve our laws, treaties and international obligations in aspic for eternity, if it is felt that those arrangements need to change.
One of the things that has led to this crisis of confidence in the West is the idea that there are untouchable policies, institutions, truths, ways of doing things that the electorate cannot disturb.
100% agreed we need to follow trump in moving away from the globalist agenda including tariffs and nato to make sure we are putting Britain first
Tariffs on Chinese imports maybe not our friends.
NATO is our main defence against Russia
They were just examples don’t get too hung up on them
But how does nato defend us from Russia? Esp since Russia has shown to be a paper tiger they cant even take over Ukraine they are provably less of a threat now than at any other time in the last century.
They have only not been able to take over Ukraine due to weapons supplied to Ukraine by NATO nations
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I tend to think that there would be less Islamic terrorism if the conflict between Israel and Palestine was brought to an end. So I think there is a relevance to Britain, albeit I think that the threat from Russia is greater and the war in Ukraine more important.
Secondly, if you accept the judgement that there is a genocide in Gaza, then you can argue it is of the upmost importance that Britain does nothing to assist in that genocide, and does what it can to stop it.
Thirdly, Jewish people in Britain are less safe now than previously, and this continues to deteriorate. They will either push back against those they believe are responsible for making them less safe, or they will leave Britain. I hope that they do not leave Britain.
Setting it out in this way I find it hard to see how this would not be a source of polarisation and anger. We are talking of deadly important things, and literal fear for the lives of oneself and one's family - terrorism, genocide, persecution.
But at the same time. Yes. Bored now. Could they not just learn to live with each other? The future is more important than the past, and they could just choose not to kill each other from now on.
"I tend to think that there would be less Islamic terrorism if the conflict between Israel and Palestine was brought to an end. "
I would like to think that. But the problem is that radicalised people always look for an excuse to be radical. If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, and there was a single Islamic Palestine, there would be another issue on which they would concentrate their ire, another issue they could use to radicalise people.
It's the way radicalised people are, and always have been.
The far right in this country used to target blacks, gays and Jews. Now, it's Muslims. The same sort of people, the same hatred, the same radicalisation.
(That does not mean we should not try to find peace between Israel and the Palestinians; just that we should do that because it is the right thing to do, and not in the hope it would appease radicalised people.)
Do the Tories really want another 8 months of Kemi ?
It’s painful to watch .
I really would not expect you to say anything else to be fair
If she was pleasing you she really would have a problem
I would prefer Kemi to succeed in order to see off the vile Jenrick. Today's interventions are not helpful.
Mind you pretending they weren't in Government during the Boriswave is possibly a tactic of outright genius.
On a more serious note Starmer successfully moved labour away from Corbyn over his time in opposition, and that is something Badenoch, or whoever is the conservative leader is, has to achieve in respect of the last conservative government
It will take time and on some policies they will be near to Reform but with softer edges
I listen to the view the conservative party is irrelevant and in terminal decline, but if that does materialise than it will be PM Farage and neither of us want that under any circumstances
You might have to overcome your very own Corbyn style extremist in the form of Bob before your Party returns to the centre.
Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.
Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.
I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.
It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.
As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.
The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.
From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
My apologies for my anger on this topic.
I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.
However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.
It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.
And I find that appalling.
Your problem is that you are lumping the vast majority of people peacefully protesting with an extremist fringe.
The majority are seeing genocide take place in front of their eyes and they want to stop that happening.
Israel is committing said crime, their government has invited Tommy Robinson as an ally to Israel.
I work for an identifiably Jewish bank, we get regular updates from the police/intelligence services/government about protests.
so for example I knew at the start of last week that there was a pro Palestine march scheduled in Piccadilly on Thursday.
I also know a lot of these protests are planned well in advance and the organisers do not give the police advance notice so when you said the protests on Thursday night were scheduled after the attack was wrong.
The biggest threat at work is from the far right (who think we fund antifa and Muslim immigrants) and the hard left, not pro Palestinian protesters.
I would like to meet these far right activists wanting to know why a Jewish firm wants more Muslims in the UK.
Someone on a previous thread pointed out that some protests on Thursday (not the Manchester one) were *not* planned. I think one was in Glasgow?
"Your problem is that you are lumping the vast majority of people peacefully protesting with an extremist fringe."
And your problem (and theirs...) is that they are not chucking out the extremist fringe, but acting in concert with them.
Many Jews in this country are living in fear. And protesting this weekend, so soon after a terrorist attack on the Jewish community, amplifies that fear. Still protesting on Thursday is unbelievably crass.
Hopefully, you will know that I have zero care for the far right. I detest them, as I have made clear on many occasions.
No, they were planned before, just not told to the police in advance, unlike the Manchester one.
IIRC Tuesday's briefing said a protest is scheduled in Manchester but based on previous occasions we would expect similar ones in major cities.
I'm unsure what your point is. Surely until the police are informed, it's not particularly organised, is it?
Besides, I'll repeat what I said earlier: "Many Jews in this country are living in fear. And protesting this weekend, so soon after a terrorist attack on the Jewish community, amplifies that fear. Still protesting on Thursday is unbelievably crass."
They should have left it a week. The fact they did not says nothing good about the protestors.
The point of a protest is to make less engaged people aware of the issue - and win them over to your argument.
I find it hard to believe that many people are being won over by those who insist on protesting even when moderate folk are urging them to take a break. Surely it makes it less likely people are going to engage with your cause? Which in turn. leads you to question their motive in ploughing on.
Have a good friend who is Jewish, whose little girl just asked him "Why do people want to kill us?" Slightly more poignant for him, as he acts as one of the guards at his local synagogue. By strange coincidence, he knew very well one of the two killed in Manchester, doing the same role.
Every other lamppost in the Felinfoel area of Llanelli is adorned with a Welsh flag. Is this to ward off Asylum Seekers or the English?
Probably both. Reform/Plaid joint enterprise?
Flags are everywhere. A few days ago, council workers were removing Union Flags that had mysteriously appeared on lamp posts in Elgin overnight. Coincidentally, they were near a hotel that was, until recently, used to home asylum-seekers.
Simon Jenkins comparing Reform unfavourably with SDP 81
So much political reporting - personified by the BBC’s Messrs Mason and Kuennsberg - and even infecting the great pollster John Curtice is now locked in a morass of day to day hysteria. Jenkins is right. Farage has close to zero chance of being PM - ever.
I'm sure he's right. When William Glenn made the claim that Farage was a cast iron certainty to be next PM I offered him £1,000 at even money that he wouldn't. William Glenn hasn't been heard of since.
I've done the site such a favour I should ask it to crowdfund my stake.
Morning all! Reform Cosplay Convention opens in Manchester. Previously there would have been protests - a ring of steel needed to separate Tory delegates from protestors.
Now? No need. No point.
On here we all seem pretty aligned that cosplay will only drag the party further into the depths, and that a future new leader will have to forge a sane Conservative position on all these issues. The question is will there be a party left by then? They can't go on like this, its cruelty.
The ring of steel is still there from the Midland hotel to the convention centre as it has been most years.
Is there any need for it? I remember the big protests of the past. Anyone bothered this year?
I’ll never understand why the media is so focused on Jews and trans. The uk gets more migrants in one year than the Jewish and trans population combined!
There are about 300k Jewish people in the UK and about 260k trans people. (Obviously, there will be a bit of an overlap of those two groups.)
Immigration in 2024 was 421k net (well down on the previous 2 years). So, your figures are a little out.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I tend to think that there would be less Islamic terrorism if the conflict between Israel and Palestine was brought to an end. So I think there is a relevance to Britain, albeit I think that the threat from Russia is greater and the war in Ukraine more important.
Secondly, if you accept the judgement that there is a genocide in Gaza, then you can argue it is of the upmost importance that Britain does nothing to assist in that genocide, and does what it can to stop it.
Thirdly, Jewish people in Britain are less safe now than previously, and this continues to deteriorate. They will either push back against those they believe are responsible for making them less safe, or they will leave Britain. I hope that they do not leave Britain.
Setting it out in this way I find it hard to see how this would not be a source of polarisation and anger. We are talking of deadly important things, and literal fear for the lives of oneself and one's family - terrorism, genocide, persecution.
But at the same time. Yes. Bored now. Could they not just learn to live with each other? The future is more important than the past, and they could just choose not to kill each other from now on.
"I tend to think that there would be less Islamic terrorism if the conflict between Israel and Palestine was brought to an end. "
I would like to think that. But the problem is that radicalised people always look for an excuse to be radical. If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, and there was a single Islamic Palestine, there would be another issue on which they would concentrate their ire, another issue they could use to radicalise people.
It's the way radicalised people are, and always have been.
The far right in this country used to target blacks, gays and Jews. Now, it's Muslims. The same sort of people, the same hatred, the same radicalisation.
(That does not mean we should not try to find peace between Israel and the Palestinians; just that we should do that because it is the right thing to do, and not in the hope it would appease radicalised people.)
As another poster pointed out yesterday, Britain has seen a large reduction in terrorist violence following the Good Friday Agreement.
I wouldn't expect there to be zero Islamic terrorism after a successful peace between Israel and Palestine, but I think a significant reduction is likely.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
Correct , far too many tossers with too much time on their hands, fit tehm better to look at the shit state of the UK due to their stupidity and fecklessness.
Part of it is that, part of it is virtue signalling, but I'd say a decent part of it is that many people have a deep instinctive emotional reaction to abject oppression wherever it appears. For some that emerges as a deep sympathy for Jews as a result of the holocaust and ongoing rife anti-Semitism, for others it emerges as a horror in the face of genocide. Most normal people feel both of these emotions, strongly, which is why it is such an intransigent issue.
@boulay flip the question round - why would any sane person care more about whether a kid gets a free sandwich at lunch when other kids are being bombed whilst in hospital, and still others have no really safe place on the globe to call home?
It's not like we really have much agency on any of these issues, and I'd argue it's only narrow parochialism (however instinctively we feel this) that causes us to care more about lunches in UK schools than hospitals in Gaza.
I await her details on this subject which apparently follows a review by David Wolfson who is a barrister
What has become increasingly obvious the powers of the ECHR are seen as a problem, and not just with Farage declaration to leave, and now Badenoch's, but also Starmer is wanting changes
Some on the right have picked the ECHR as a bogeyman. They want to rekindle the Brexit debate and so have picked on something else with European in its name. The actual day-to-day impact of the ECHR on our lives is not great.
The ECHR is not responsible for unaffordable housing, for insecure employment, for all-powerful tech companies creating monopolies. The ECHR is not responsible for cancer or dementia or long COVID. The ECHR does not cause rape or assaults or mobile phone theft. The ECHR is not why it's difficult to see a GP or book a driving test.
Badenoch's announcement is clickbait as politics, not a serious attempt to make our lives better.
Your second paragraph is not the reason why leaving or amending the ECHR is such a hot topic
It relates entirely to our ability to stop the boats and illegal migration and it is clear even Starmer recognisies it and is reviewing parts of it
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
Morning. The reason it causes so much angst is that the participants are vaguely easily identifiable (we have plenty of Arabs and Jews in this country) whereas who the hell knows about Sudan, Yemen, wherever.
Partly consequently, but most importantly it is, for many in the UK, the most immediate and relatable weak vs strong conflict. Where "right" people are or should be on the side of the weak and evil oppressors are on the side of the strong.
Fifty years ago it was the Jews and Israel who were the weak ones and hence attracted the support of the left. They (Israel) then committed the cardinal sin for the left of ceasing to be the object of help and pity. They became strong. And just as the left hates poor working class types (good) who have become rich (evil), so did Israel fall out of favour.
The details or history of the conflict are unimportant. It provides a shorthand to show you have correct values. And it is much easier to protest at such perceived far away iniquity than to march about the more intractable issues you list, free school meals, wfa, etc.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
Correct , far too many tossers with too much time on their hands, fit tehm better to look at the shit state of the UK due to their stupidity and fecklessness.
Part of it is that, part of it is virtue signalling, but I'd say a decent part of it is that many people have a deep instinctive emotional reaction to abject oppression wherever it appears. For some that emerges as a deep sympathy for Jews as a result of the holocaust and ongoing rife anti-Semitism, for others it emerges as a horror in the face of genocide. Most normal people feel both of these emotions, strongly, which is why it is such an intransigent issue.
@boulay flip the question round - why would any sane person care more about whether a kid gets a free sandwich at lunch when other kids are being bombed whilst in hospital, and still others have no really safe place on the globe to call home?
It's not like we really have much agency on any of these issues, and I'd argue it's only narrow parochialism (however instinctively we feel this) that causes us to care more about lunches in UK schools than hospitals in Gaza.
When the world is so very terrible there is an understandable psychological self-defence reaction to turn away and look inward. So much more comforting to worry about small, solvable problems where evil is not present.
So perhaps now it is time for me to turn away and to peel and slice apples for a crumble.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
In terms of split, it's a pretty firm majority in favour of Palestine/against Netanyahu whichever way you cut it. For Palestine statehood it's more than 2:1; nearly 2:1 for the Palestinians on the "what side" question (with lots of both sides too). 3:1 against what the IDF is doing in Gaza. About 50% of people think it amounts to genocide.
I think the key difference is how the UK Government is responding to such public opinion. The protests are as much against our government as the Israeli one - and the sense that we are abdicating our responsbilities under the Genocide Convention. People often ask why there aren't such protests against what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Well, we are actually funding and arming the Ukrainians...
The Ukrainians are the ones attacked by the Russians.
The Israelis are the ones attacked by Hamas.
We should be actually funding and arming the Israelis until Hamas surrenders unconditionally.
Yebbut what about the post you were pretending to respond to, are the majority of British people just wrong? I thought you were all in favour of democracy.
I'm voting for the Party led by a British Jew.
Surely everybody who doesn't follow suit must be antisemitic!
Maybe you could get him to stand against Netanyau? He's got an automatic right of return. He's not a genocidal mass murderer. He's funny. His hearts in the right place......He's got it in the bag!
I await her details on this subject which apparently follows a review by David Wolfson who is a barrister
What has become increasingly obvious the powers of the ECHR are seen as a problem, and not just with Farage declaration to leave, and now Badenoch's, but also Starmer is wanting changes
Some on the right have picked the ECHR as a bogeyman. They want to rekindle the Brexit debate and so have picked on something else with European in its name. The actual day-to-day impact of the ECHR on our lives is not great.
The ECHR is not responsible for unaffordable housing, for insecure employment, for all-powerful tech companies creating monopolies. The ECHR is not responsible for cancer or dementia or long COVID. The ECHR does not cause rape or assaults or mobile phone theft. The ECHR is not why it's difficult to see a GP or book a driving test.
Badenoch's announcement is clickbait as politics, not a serious attempt to make our lives better.
Your second paragraph is not the reason why leaving or amending the ECHR is such a hot topic
It relates entirely to our ability to stop the boats and illegal migration and it is clear even Starmer recognisies it and is reviewing parts of it
The status quo on the ECHR is not sustainable
It's pretty obvious that immigration is destabilising our politics and fuelling the rise of the populists. Preventing that has to be a priority for any responsible politician. So, with the ECHR, it really is a case of holding one's nose and getting on with it. It's really that simple.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I tend to think that there would be less Islamic terrorism if the conflict between Israel and Palestine was brought to an end. So I think there is a relevance to Britain, albeit I think that the threat from Russia is greater and the war in Ukraine more important.
Secondly, if you accept the judgement that there is a genocide in Gaza, then you can argue it is of the upmost importance that Britain does nothing to assist in that genocide, and does what it can to stop it.
Thirdly, Jewish people in Britain are less safe now than previously, and this continues to deteriorate. They will either push back against those they believe are responsible for making them less safe, or they will leave Britain. I hope that they do not leave Britain.
Setting it out in this way I find it hard to see how this would not be a source of polarisation and anger. We are talking of deadly important things, and literal fear for the lives of oneself and one's family - terrorism, genocide, persecution.
But at the same time. Yes. Bored now. Could they not just learn to live with each other? The future is more important than the past, and they could just choose not to kill each other from now on.
"I tend to think that there would be less Islamic terrorism if the conflict between Israel and Palestine was brought to an end. "
I would like to think that. But the problem is that radicalised people always look for an excuse to be radical. If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, and there was a single Islamic Palestine, there would be another issue on which they would concentrate their ire, another issue they could use to radicalise people.
It's the way radicalised people are, and always have been.
The far right in this country used to target blacks, gays and Jews. Now, it's Muslims. The same sort of people, the same hatred, the same radicalisation.
(That does not mean we should not try to find peace between Israel and the Palestinians; just that we should do that because it is the right thing to do, and not in the hope it would appease radicalised people.)
As another poster pointed out yesterday, Britain has seen a large reduction in terrorist violence following the Good Friday Agreement.
I wouldn't expect there to be zero Islamic terrorism after a successful peace between Israel and Palestine, but I think a significant reduction is likely.
If you look at the list of al Qaeda's grievances, they were *far* larger than western support for Israel. And as for ISIS...
I’ll never understand why the media is so focused on Jews and trans. The uk gets more migrants in one year than the Jewish and trans population combined!
There are about 300k Jewish people in the UK and about 260k trans people. (Obviously, there will be a bit of an overlap of those two groups.)
Immigration in 2024 was 421k net (well down on the previous 2 years). So, your figures are a little out.
If the short rule of Keir Starmer has taught us anything it's that chasing populist votes gets you nowhere. It's particularly ineffective now with parties to both left and right.
The prescription for winning next time is simple. Stay roughly in the centre and be your own person and don't be afraid to go against the grain. As my first boss-an emminent photographer- said to me; "if you want to get to the top when everyone else zigs-zag".
Starmer's problems have very little to do with chasing the populist vote.
Put simply, his problem is that he is not very good. He seems to have only nebulous objectives, and no plan as to how to reach them. If he does have a plan, he cannot sell it. And the team he has selected to surround him have similar flaws. He also cannot bring his party together.
Compare with Blair. For all his faults, he had clear objectives (perhaps too clear...) and plans as to how to get there (even if some did not work). And he sold that plan well, in part because he had a very effective and skilful team around him. He also managed to get his party unified, at least for his first term.
Labour - heck, the country - really need a 1997-style government, whether Conservative or Labour.
Blair had lots of money to play with. I think that’s the key differentiator. Put him back there in 97, with all his political skills but with a low growth economy and maxed out public finances, and he'd have floundered with the best of them. No 'vision' or 'narrative' or 'plan' would have made much of a difference.
I think the good economy the Tories handed over in 1997 did help Blair. I agree.
But the point remains that Blair had key skills that Starmer does not. So I'll reverse it: if Starmer had been in charge in 1997, they would not have won in 2005.
He simple does not have the skills to be PM, and I very much doubt he has the capacity to learn those skills in time.
Starmer isn't half the politician Blair was. That's undeniable. My point is to not underestimate the importance of luck, randomness, and the macro environment. You could replace him with a towering political genius and the country would remain open only to marginal incremental improvement from policies pursued. The big challenge for a political colossus today is to sell realistic expectations rather than sunlit uplands. That's the sort of savior we need. The very opposite of the cheap exploitative populist crap that seems to be all the rage.
I’ll never understand why the media is so focused on Jews and trans. The uk gets more migrants in one year than the Jewish and trans population combined!
There are about 300k Jewish people in the UK and about 260k trans people. (Obviously, there will be a bit of an overlap of those two groups.)
Immigration in 2024 was 421k net (well down on the previous 2 years). So, your figures are a little out.
I didn’t say net migration
Fair enough. Gross migration was something like 950k-ish which is larger.
Every other lamppost in the Felinfoel area of Llanelli is adorned with a Welsh flag. Is this to ward off Asylum Seekers or the English?
I went to Llandudno yesterday and every lamppost up the Little Orme had new flags placed higher, and alternating between the Welsh Flag and Union Jack
I assume the LA had taken down the previous ones just to see bigger and higher ones appear, and with considerable facebook and social media support
Indeed on flags, Llandudno Promenade in season displays flags from across the World along the length of the promenade
I was very pleased to see the Welsh flag and Union Jack alternating on the lampposts
On a day trip from Chester last Thursday week, I was in Llandudno with my Mum. Saw a Ukrainian flag on the promenade along with Polish, French, England, Manx, and others!
On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?
Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
In terms of split, it's a pretty firm majority in favour of Palestine/against Netanyahu whichever way you cut it. For Palestine statehood it's more than 2:1; nearly 2:1 for the Palestinians on the "what side" question (with lots of both sides too). 3:1 against what the IDF is doing in Gaza. About 50% of people think it amounts to genocide.
I think the key difference is how the UK Government is responding to such public opinion. The protests are as much against our government as the Israeli one - and the sense that we are abdicating our responsbilities under the Genocide Convention. People often ask why there aren't such protests against what Russia is doing in Ukraine. Well, we are actually funding and arming the Ukrainians...
The Ukrainians are the ones attacked by the Russians.
The Israelis are the ones attacked by Hamas.
We should be actually funding and arming the Israelis until Hamas surrenders unconditionally.
Yebbut what about the post you were pretending to respond to, are the majority of British people just wrong? I thought you were all in favour of democracy.
Yes they are wrong.
I am in favour of democracy. I also keep my own views of what is right and wrong even when I'm in the minority.
On the Conservatives I'd like a strong pro-business, pro-entrepreneur, pro-growth, pro aspiration, pro new industry, pro education, pro young people getting on party coupled with a strong national balance sheet, strong national defence, foreign policy and border control. And a resistance to American culture wars with common sense. That could beat Reform.
Unfortunately this is no country for young men. Or women.
Would it invest significantly? If so how would it be funded? If not, it doesn't work.
It wouldn’t get elected on this basis but I'd go to town on the triple-lock and welfare entitlements.
That'd slice £50bn a year off our spend over the course of a parliament.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I couldn't give a toss about it, myself.
Not sure repeatedly stating that you don't care about something has quite the intended effect.
Do you think repeatedly stating that you do care has your intended effect?
Every other lamppost in the Felinfoel area of Llanelli is adorned with a Welsh flag. Is this to ward off Asylum Seekers or the English?
I went to Llandudno yesterday and every lamppost up the Little Orme had new flags placed higher, and alternating between the Welsh Flag and Union Jack
I assume the LA had taken down the previous ones just to see bigger and higher ones appear, and with considerable facebook and social media support
Indeed on flags, Llandudno Promenade in season displays flags from across the World along the length of the promenade
I was very pleased to see the Welsh flag and Union Jack alternating on the lampposts
On a day trip from Chester last Thursday week, I was in Llandudno with my Mum. Saw a Ukrainian flag on the promenade along with Polish, French, England, Manx, and others!
Yes - Llandudno lives upto its reputation as the Queen of Welsh holiday resorts
I await her details on this subject which apparently follows a review by David Wolfson who is a barrister
What has become increasingly obvious the powers of the ECHR are seen as a problem, and not just with Farage declaration to leave, and now Badenoch's, but also Starmer is wanting changes
Some on the right have picked the ECHR as a bogeyman. They want to rekindle the Brexit debate and so have picked on something else with European in its name. The actual day-to-day impact of the ECHR on our lives is not great.
The ECHR is not responsible for unaffordable housing, for insecure employment, for all-powerful tech companies creating monopolies. The ECHR is not responsible for cancer or dementia or long COVID. The ECHR does not cause rape or assaults or mobile phone theft. The ECHR is not why it's difficult to see a GP or book a driving test.
Badenoch's announcement is clickbait as politics, not a serious attempt to make our lives better.
Your second paragraph is not the reason why leaving or amending the ECHR is such a hot topic
It relates entirely to our ability to stop the boats and illegal migration and it is clear even Starmer recognisies it and is reviewing parts of it
The status quo on the ECHR is not sustainable
Can you explain the mechanics of why we should join Russia and Belarus in a human rights hinterland?
On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?
Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
Did this NI gaffe not happen a couple of days ago? Old news. I seem to remember it being pretty close over there.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I couldn't give a toss about it, myself.
However I cannot understand the moronic UK people in their millions who hate Jews, it is unbelievable.
For the far-Left, Jews invented capitalism, so are damned, and for the Islamists they are their mortal religious and blood enemy.
If the short rule of Keir Starmer has taught us anything it's that chasing populist votes gets you nowhere. It's particularly ineffective now with parties to both left and right.
The prescription for winning next time is simple. Stay roughly in the centre and be your own person and don't be afraid to go against the grain. As my first boss-an emminent photographer- said to me; "if you want to get to the top when everyone else zigs-zag".
Starmer's problems have very little to do with chasing the populist vote.
Put simply, his problem is that he is not very good. He seems to have only nebulous objectives, and no plan as to how to reach them. If he does have a plan, he cannot sell it. And the team he has selected to surround him have similar flaws. He also cannot bring his party together.
Compare with Blair. For all his faults, he had clear objectives (perhaps too clear...) and plans as to how to get there (even if some did not work). And he sold that plan well, in part because he had a very effective and skilful team around him. He also managed to get his party unified, at least for his first term.
Labour - heck, the country - really need a 1997-style government, whether Conservative or Labour.
Blair had lots of money to play with. I think that’s the key differentiator. Put him back there in 97, with all his political skills but with a low growth economy and maxed out public finances, and he'd have floundered with the best of them. No 'vision' or 'narrative' or 'plan' would have made much of a difference.
I think the good economy the Tories handed over in 1997 did help Blair. I agree.
But the point remains that Blair had key skills that Starmer does not. So I'll reverse it: if Starmer had been in charge in 1997, they would not have won in 2005.
He simple does not have the skills to be PM, and I very much doubt he has the capacity to learn those skills in time.
Starmer isn't half the politician Blair was. That's undeniable. My point is to not underestimate the importance of luck, randomness, and the macro environment. You could replace him with a towering political genius and the country would remain open only to marginal incremental improvement from policies pursued. The big challenge for a political colossus today is to sell realistic expectations rather than sunlit uplands. That's the sort of savior we need. The very opposite of the cheap exploitative populist crap that seems to be all the rage.
I both agree and disagree. There does need to be some realism, rather than hope-casting and blaming others.
But Blair won his majority with some simple ideas: "education! education! education!" and the NHS - along with a healthy amount of "Aren't the current lot an absolute shower!" We can argue about how effective his NHS and education policies were, but at least the government knew what they were doing, and had plans.
Starmer won because Sunak's government was hopeless, divided, and out of ideas. But he had nothing else. What he should have done is pick two or three core ideas and shout about them. For example, one might be: "Build! Build! Build!", and then put plans in place to make it work. And SHOUT LOUDLY about what you're doing. Instead of putting Rayner in charge of housing, put someone competent, and put bills through parliament to enable your policies.
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I couldn't give a toss about it, myself.
However I cannot understand the moronic UK people in their millions who hate Jews, it is unbelievable.
For the far-Left, Jews invented capitalism, so are damned, and for the Islamists they are their mortal religious and blood enemy.
That's the basis of that alliance.
Apart from being wrong on both points, good contribution.
On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?
Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
Nationalists were strongly Remain. Unionists were more split but overall supported Leave.
On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?
Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
"Very" is hardly appropriate, if you mean the Protestants - that was 40% remain. Unless you are implying that a total 44% remain vote is somehow insigniticant?
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I couldn't give a toss about it, myself.
However I cannot understand the moronic UK people in their millions who hate Jews, it is unbelievable.
For the far-Left, Jews invented capitalism, so are damned, and for the Islamists they are their mortal religious and blood enemy.
That's the basis of that alliance.
Apart from being wrong on both points, good contribution.
I await her details on this subject which apparently follows a review by David Wolfson who is a barrister
What has become increasingly obvious the powers of the ECHR are seen as a problem, and not just with Farage declaration to leave, and now Badenoch's, but also Starmer is wanting changes
Some on the right have picked the ECHR as a bogeyman. They want to rekindle the Brexit debate and so have picked on something else with European in its name. The actual day-to-day impact of the ECHR on our lives is not great.
The ECHR is not responsible for unaffordable housing, for insecure employment, for all-powerful tech companies creating monopolies. The ECHR is not responsible for cancer or dementia or long COVID. The ECHR does not cause rape or assaults or mobile phone theft. The ECHR is not why it's difficult to see a GP or book a driving test.
Badenoch's announcement is clickbait as politics, not a serious attempt to make our lives better.
Your second paragraph is not the reason why leaving or amending the ECHR is such a hot topic
It relates entirely to our ability to stop the boats and illegal migration and it is clear even Starmer recognisies it and is reviewing parts of it
The status quo on the ECHR is not sustainable
Can you explain the mechanics of why we should join Russia and Belarus in a human rights hinterland?
For exactly the same reason the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many other countries are not members
I can't help but think Labour would do a lot better by improving the NHS and education but picking up Greens and LDs on sustainability, whilst the Tories should concentrate on repairing their reputation as being hard-nosed but economically competent. Trying to outdo Reform on immigration is, paradoxically, just losing votes to Reform by continually focusing on immigration. A battle they can never win.
Simon Jenkins comparing Reform unfavourably with SDP 81
So much political reporting - personified by the BBC’s Messrs Mason and Kuennsberg - and even infecting the great pollster John Curtice is now locked in a morass of day to day hysteria. Jenkins is right. Farage has close to zero chance of being PM - ever.
I'm sure he's right. When William Glenn made the claim that Farage was a cast iron certainty to be next PM I offered him £1,000 at even money that he wouldn't. William Glenn hasn't been heard of since.
I've done the site such a favour I should ask it to crowdfund my stake.
You were offering to sell him something for £50 that he could buy elsewhere for £20, so I’m not surprised he wasn’t tempted
I await her details on this subject which apparently follows a review by David Wolfson who is a barrister
What has become increasingly obvious the powers of the ECHR are seen as a problem, and not just with Farage declaration to leave, and now Badenoch's, but also Starmer is wanting changes
Some on the right have picked the ECHR as a bogeyman. They want to rekindle the Brexit debate and so have picked on something else with European in its name. The actual day-to-day impact of the ECHR on our lives is not great.
The ECHR is not responsible for unaffordable housing, for insecure employment, for all-powerful tech companies creating monopolies. The ECHR is not responsible for cancer or dementia or long COVID. The ECHR does not cause rape or assaults or mobile phone theft. The ECHR is not why it's difficult to see a GP or book a driving test.
Badenoch's announcement is clickbait as politics, not a serious attempt to make our lives better.
Your second paragraph is not the reason why leaving or amending the ECHR is such a hot topic
It relates entirely to our ability to stop the boats and illegal migration and it is clear even Starmer recognisies it and is reviewing parts of it
The status quo on the ECHR is not sustainable
Can you explain the mechanics of why we should join Russia and Belarus in a human rights hinterland?
Can you explain why without reference to geography we should not have our own domestic court being the highest court rather than an international one, like in Australia, Canada and New Zealand.
Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.
Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.
I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.
It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.
As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.
The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.
From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
My apologies for my anger on this topic.
I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.
However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.
It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.
And I find that appalling.
Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?
No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
Simon Jenkins comparing Reform unfavourably with SDP 81
So much political reporting - personified by the BBC’s Messrs Mason and Kuennsberg - and even infecting the great pollster John Curtice is now locked in a morass of day to day hysteria. Jenkins is right. Farage has close to zero chance of being PM - ever.
I'm sure he's right. When William Glenn made the claim that Farage was a cast iron certainty to be next PM I offered him £1,000 at even money that he wouldn't. William Glenn hasn't been heard of since.
I've done the site such a favour I should ask it to crowdfund my stake.
You were offering to sell him something for £50 that he could buy elsewhere for £20, so I’m not surprised he wasn’t tempted
Also, locking up capital in a bet that is based upon outcomes in 4 years time is a terrible use of capital, unless you are doing so on something like Betfair where you can trade your stake in and out. Locking it up for a year ahead is already -ev e.g. betting on EPL winners now.
I can't help but think Labour would do a lot better by improving the NHS and education but picking up Greens and LDs on sustainability, whilst the Tories should concentrate on repairing their reputation as being hard-nosed but economically competent. Trying to outdo Reform on immigration is, paradoxically, just losing votes to Reform by continually focusing on immigration. A battle they can never win.
Immigration is the subject that is simply not going to go away
Was catching up on the overnight posts and thinking about the shear number about Israel/Gaza.
I can’t think of any other event that causes so much split and trouble in the Uk. We don’t see weekly marches in favour of free school meals, increasing tax on the wealthiest, there weren’t weekly marches about Northern Ireland during the troubles.
Yet with Gaza/Israel we see protest, violence, hatred, laws being changed. It’s possibly the subject on here that causes the most rancour and unpleasantness on here that I can think of.
And yet it has absolutely zero real role in British life. It’s not a neighbour, neither Gaza nor Israel are a potential military threat, they are not great economic powers where the outcome majorly affects our country. The foundations of the argument are in religions that are minorities in our country.
I don’t know where I meant to go with this post but I just find it deeply depressing how the situation has dug so deep into British life and discourse, there are plenty of other stories with such hellish death and destruction that get nothing as we have mentioned here. The polarisation and anger here though is crazy though and I am not even certain the weekly marches and protests will stop even if there is a peace deal when all they do is entrench division and cost this country a fortune in policing etc.
Anyway, ramble/rant over. I blame my meds.
I couldn't give a toss about it, myself.
Not sure repeatedly stating that you don't care about something has quite the intended effect.
Do you think repeatedly stating that you do care has your intended effect?
I think you've missed a basic construct of human discourse, mentioning it if you feel strongly about something, shutting your pie hole when you don't.
Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.
Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.
I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.
It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.
As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.
The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.
From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
My apologies for my anger on this topic.
I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.
However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.
It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.
And I find that appalling.
Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?
No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
Are you going to call Zack by his original name (David)?
On topic, does anyone understand Northern Ireland?
Some of us understand it less badly than others. As the collision of London politicians of all colours with reality has shown over the last few decades, and especially over Brexit. Indeed, we only have to look to Ms Badenoch for an example.
But, if you understood it well as you claim, you'd acknowledge one community in Northern Ireland was very supportive of Brexit.
Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.
A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
If they wanted to do something about it why did they come for PIP? That's a disability benefit and not too do directly with capacity for work. Why not foresee that backbench Lab would not stand for cutting money from the disabled? They might have stood for severe tightening of capacity to work. Instead the capacity to work is now to be linked to getting a PIP award iirc.
Labour in government habit of going all authorian showing through again. It's only 2 mins since the Tories attempt to curtail JSO blocking all the roads on a daily basis was met with outrage by Labour.
Also whatever happened to the tradition of not announcing things during party conferences. They are all at these these days shouting over on another when each other conferences are on.
I can see the need; if you lived somewhere that these anti-Jewish shits turned out every other week, you might be more than a little peeved. They don't care anything about the fear they cause in the Jewish community, or the disruption they cause to the lives of their fellow citizens.
It is, however, a law change that could easily be exploited by bad regimes.
As for your last paragraph: remember how Starmer and Labour lambasted Conservative governments for announcing things outside parliament? Now they're in power, they're doing exactly the same thing.
Your language doesn't help you or your cause, or would you like it if I called you a pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill.
The vast majority at these protests aren't anti Jewish, they are anti genocide, my friend's mother was arrested yesterday for the first time in her life at 80, which amused her son, given she's over the last 40 years protested against inter alia South Africa/apartheid, China/Tibet, Sudan, Russia, and Yugoslavia.
From what I gather her crime, holding a Palestine flag, which according to others, will see no further action in a few weeks time.
My apologies for my anger on this topic.
I would not like it if you called me a "pro genocide/pro Tommy Robinson shill". I would also be rather confused and amused, as I'm uncertain *how* you would make that connection. Especially as I was criticising Netanyahu *before* October 3rd, and you will not find me sharing anything other than contempt for Tommeh.
However, here's why I call those who protested last night "anti-Jewish". Three days ago, there was a terrorist attack on a synagogue. These protests have been spreading fear in the Jewish community. At a time they are grieving, at a time they are fearful, these lovely people protest and spread more fear. And, in my view, hatred.
It's similar to what I said about Tommeh's protest: if you attended you were amplifying his voice, not yours if you disagreed with him. In this case, the attendees amplified the fear many Jews in this country feel.
And I find that appalling.
Can we all please refer to the artist formerly known as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon please?
No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
TBF I keep on forgetting which is his real name. I quite like 'Tommeh' as it's not his choice, and it sounds (in my mind at least) fairly contemptuous.
I can't help but think Labour would do a lot better by improving the NHS and education but picking up Greens and LDs on sustainability, whilst the Tories should concentrate on repairing their reputation as being hard-nosed but economically competent. Trying to outdo Reform on immigration is, paradoxically, just losing votes to Reform by continually focusing on immigration. A battle they can never win.
Do you have magic wands which Labour can wave to improve health and education ?
Or for the Conservatives to wave to reduce the oldies demand for more welfarism ?
You can absolutely believe Brittas getting in a huff and calling her a racist, despite her being hand picked to be a soft soap PR opportunity back in the day.
Solution is simple: a maximum of twelve months, unless you are permanently incapacitated- the test for which should be very high.
A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
If they wanted to do something about it why did they come for PIP? That's a disability benefit and not too do directly with capacity for work. Why not foresee that backbench Lab would not stand for cutting money from the disabled? They might have stood for severe tightening of capacity to work. Instead the capacity to work is now to be linked to getting a PIP award iirc.
Doesn't make sense (Edit - I don't mean you, apologies: but such a change of policy). . The two are obviously correlated, but have been logically independent, as is shown by the existence of the separate Access to Work act. Surely PIP means you can get ouyt of the house etc and AtW means you can function in the workplace.
Labour has gone from being the party of the workers to the party of the shirkers.
Welfarism is a drug.
Once some people start on it they want more and more, stronger and stronger.
Kemi could this week in her Conference speech offer to work with Labour for a cross-party consensus on actually doing something about it. They still have 3 1/2 years to deliver.
Labour would probably say no. In which case, "they aren't serous about getting the country's finances under control". They'll just do the usual Labour thing when in a tight spot - raid other people's money.
Of course, Starmer could take her up on it. In which case, he then invites Farage to join in too. Farage would most likely decline - otherwise he's losing his USP of "none of the above". In which case, both Labour and the Tories can (rightly) claim that Reform has no interest in, er, reform.
You can absolutely believe Brittas getting in a huff and calling her a racist, despite her being hand picked to be a soft soap PR opportunity back in the day.
It is an odd invention about the rich tea biscuits too. Though to be honest, I don't think her recollection is 100% accurate either - it seems the photo album thing she denies must be sort of true, though she perhaps showed him the photos or something similar after he called her racist rather than as a pre-emptive defence.
The whole tale is fairly extraordinary. Why does forensic Sir Gobshite issue gaffe after gaffe?
Comments
Besides, I'll repeat what I said earlier: "Many Jews in this country are living in fear. And protesting this weekend, so soon after a terrorist attack on the Jewish community, amplifies that fear. Still protesting on Thursday is unbelievably crass."
They should have left it a week. The fact they did not says nothing good about the protestors.
* We seem to be more domestically focused over the last several months. I don't think we would miss twitter; losing that would be a good thing for political life.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2dglp43xmo
But how does nato defend us from Russia? Esp since Russia has shown to be a paper tiger they cant even take over Ukraine they are provably less of a threat now than at any other time in the last century.
Elon Musk
@elonmusk
The minds of youth are easily corrupted, which is why the corrupt ply their propaganda to the youth
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1974534312763830555
Secondly, if you accept the judgement that there is a genocide in Gaza, then you can argue it is of the upmost importance that Britain does nothing to assist in that genocide, and does what it can to stop it.
Thirdly, Jewish people in Britain are less safe now than previously, and this continues to deteriorate. They will either push back against those they believe are responsible for making them less safe, or they will leave Britain. I hope that they do not leave Britain.
Setting it out in this way I find it hard to see how this would not be a source of polarisation and anger. We are talking of deadly important things, and literal fear for the lives of oneself and one's family - terrorism, genocide, persecution.
But at the same time. Yes. Bored now. Could they not just learn to live with each other? The future is more important than the past, and they could just choose not to kill each other from now on.
They were planned to coincide with Ms Thunberg's flotilla.
Contrary to Labour pledge to bring situation under control, hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ
...
Whitehall departments have sponsored 400 visas for foreign staff and paid £626,000 in fees to allow them to work in the UK in the last year.
The staff, who must earn more than £41,700 a year or the “going rate” for their role, have been employed in the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP), Department for Transport (DfT), Department for Business and Trade (DBT) and the Cabinet Office.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/10/04/civil-service-flies-hundreds-foreign-staff-migration/ (£££)
As an aside, ‘hordes of overseas workers still in Government employ’ has a Yoda-like rhythm.
But the point remains that Blair had key skills that Starmer does not. So I'll reverse it: if Starmer had been in charge in 1997, they would not have won in 2005.
He simple does not have the skills to be PM, and I very much doubt he has the capacity to learn those skills in time.
So much political reporting - personified by the BBC’s Messrs Mason and Kuennsberg - and even infecting the great pollster John Curtice is now locked in a morass of day to day hysteria. Jenkins is right. Farage has close to zero chance of being PM - ever.
https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/1974506234511253547?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
Surely everybody who doesn't follow suit must be antisemitic!
I assume the LA had taken down the previous ones just to see bigger and higher ones appear, and with considerable facebook and social media support
Indeed on flags, Llandudno Promenade in season displays flags from across the World along the length of the promenade
I was very pleased to see the Welsh flag and Union Jack alternating on the lampposts
"Conservatives pledge to remove 750,000 migrants under borders plan - BBC News" https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c708g5x2yqzo
The ECHR is not responsible for unaffordable housing, for insecure employment, for all-powerful tech companies creating monopolies. The ECHR is not responsible for cancer or dementia or long COVID. The ECHR does not cause rape or assaults or mobile phone theft. The ECHR is not why it's difficult to see a GP or book a driving test.
Badenoch's announcement is clickbait as politics, not a serious attempt to make our lives better.
Jenkins is one of those people who is incredibly reliably wrong about almost everything.
I would like to think that. But the problem is that radicalised people always look for an excuse to be radical. If Israel ceased to exist tomorrow, and there was a single Islamic Palestine, there would be another issue on which they would concentrate their ire, another issue they could use to radicalise people.
It's the way radicalised people are, and always have been.
The far right in this country used to target blacks, gays and Jews. Now, it's Muslims. The same sort of people, the same hatred, the same radicalisation.
(That does not mean we should not try to find peace between Israel and the Palestinians; just that we should do that because it is the right thing to do, and not in the hope it would appease radicalised people.)
I find it hard to believe that many people are being won over by those who insist on protesting even when moderate folk are urging them to take a break. Surely it makes it less likely people are going to engage with your cause? Which in turn. leads you to question their motive in ploughing on.
Have a good friend who is Jewish, whose little girl just asked him "Why do people want to kill us?" Slightly more poignant for him, as he acts as one of the guards at his local synagogue. By strange coincidence, he knew very well one of the two killed in Manchester, doing the same role.
This isn't welfare - it's economic and social vandalism
https://frasernelson.substack.com/p/number-written-off-as-long-term-sick
Flags are everywhere. A few days ago, council workers were removing Union Flags that had mysteriously appeared on lamp posts in Elgin overnight. Coincidentally, they were near a hotel that was, until recently, used to home asylum-seekers.
I've done the site such a favour I should ask it to crowdfund my stake.
Immigration in 2024 was 421k net (well down on the previous 2 years). So, your figures are a little out.
I wouldn't expect there to be zero Islamic terrorism after a successful peace between Israel and Palestine, but I think a significant reduction is likely.
@boulay flip the question round - why would any sane person care more about whether a kid gets a free sandwich at lunch when other kids are being bombed whilst in hospital, and still others have no really safe place on the globe to call home?
It's not like we really have much agency on any of these issues, and I'd argue it's only narrow parochialism (however instinctively we feel this) that causes us to care more about lunches in UK schools than hospitals in Gaza.
It relates entirely to our ability to stop the boats and illegal migration and it is clear even Starmer recognisies it and is reviewing parts of it
The status quo on the ECHR is not sustainable
Partly consequently, but most importantly it is, for many in the UK, the most immediate and relatable weak vs strong conflict. Where "right" people are or should be on the side of the weak and evil oppressors are on the side of the strong.
Fifty years ago it was the Jews and Israel who were the weak ones and hence attracted the support of the left. They (Israel) then committed the cardinal sin for the left of ceasing to be the object of help and pity. They became strong. And just as the left hates poor working class types (good) who have become rich (evil), so did Israel fall out of favour.
The details or history of the conflict are unimportant. It provides a shorthand to show you have correct values. And it is much easier to protest at such perceived far away iniquity than to march about the more intractable issues you list, free school meals, wfa, etc.
So perhaps now it is time for me to turn away and to peel and slice apples for a crumble.
And as for ISIS...
I am in favour of democracy. I also keep my own views of what is right and wrong even when I'm in the minority.
That'd slice £50bn a year off our spend over the course of a parliament.
That's the basis of that alliance.
But Blair won his majority with some simple ideas: "education! education! education!" and the NHS - along with a healthy amount of "Aren't the current lot an absolute shower!" We can argue about how effective his NHS and education policies were, but at least the government knew what they were doing, and had plans.
Starmer won because Sunak's government was hopeless, divided, and out of ideas. But he had nothing else. What he should have done is pick two or three core ideas and shout about them. For example, one might be: "Build! Build! Build!", and then put plans in place to make it work. And SHOUT LOUDLY about what you're doing. Instead of putting Rayner in charge of housing, put someone competent, and put bills through parliament to enable your policies.
We're not getting any of that.
A "bad back", "anxiety" or "depression" isn't an excuse for the State to pay for you never to work again.
They have their own laws
No chummy nom de plumes please. He is not our friend.
Welfarism is a drug.
Once some people start on it they want more and more, stronger and stronger.
https://x.com/JohnRentoul/status/1974756502985453592
"A detailed analysis of YouGov findings by Political Betting website..."
Remain 56%
Leave 44%
😇
Or for the Conservatives to wave to reduce the oldies demand for more welfarism ?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15157691/Starmer-Retiree-conference-speech-meeting-racist.html
Her recollections vary. And she's voting Reform.
I think this is the first year I am not going to one of them.
Labour would probably say no. In which case, "they aren't serous about getting the country's finances under control". They'll just do the usual Labour thing when in a tight spot - raid other people's money.
Of course, Starmer could take her up on it. In which case, he then invites Farage to join in too. Farage would most likely decline - otherwise he's losing his USP of "none of the above". In which case, both Labour and the Tories can (rightly) claim that Reform has no interest in, er, reform.
The whole tale is fairly extraordinary. Why does forensic Sir Gobshite issue gaffe after gaffe?