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Will this impact Reform’s chances in the Senedd? – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,678

    "Building of three new towns will start before election, Labour pledges"

    "A taskforce has recommended 12 locations in England for development, with three areas - Tempsford in Bedfordshire, Leeds South Bank, and Crews Hill in north London - identified as the most promising sites."
    ...
    "Meanwhile, recent figures showed the number of planning approvals for new homes in England fell to a record low during Labour's first year in office."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly1geen679o

    I guess I'm going to have to complete running all the paths and roads in the area round Tempsford. I've done the A1 and all those east of it...

    All three were identified at least a year ago, as we're planning reforms which would speed up house building.

    The lack of reform (thanks, Rayner) coupled with economic conditions (cheers, Reeves) and the recent introduction of highly inflexible and very badly thought out building regulations in response to Grenfell (thanks Tories) has put building into a coma.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
    The most remarkable thing about the consistently high Reform polling, is it’s been achieved without anyone having much of an inkling who would be Chancellor, yet alone Foreign, Defence, Health or Education Secs.

    I predict a fork in the road for them, once the election date comes into focus. If they announce a front bench team that feels credible to the electorate, then most sitting Tories (and by extension some sitting Lib Dems) are in big trouble. If not, then we will be well hung.
    Au contraire.

    Reform's success in the polls has come about because they have kept things vague, to an extent that makes even Starmer's Ming Vase look like carelessness.

    Probably sensible, given that whenever they do specifics, they turn out to be awful. And anyone who is put forward as Spokesman on X is statistically likely to have split from Nigel by the next election.
    Yes, that is the key to Farage's coalition of the contrary.

    I think it quite possible that it will implode as an election campaign gets going, but it may not, just as the Ming Vase Strategy did actually work to put Starmer in number 10.

    More likely that Reform's incoherence falls apart after the election and the world looks on in bafflement as we make Trumpistan look a model of good government.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542

    I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Starmer, in an odd way.

    He is, I think, a fairly decent man. Like Sunak before him, or Cameron. He wants to do what is right, and wants a better country. He might even have gone into politics for that reason. None of those three needed to go into politics, and they could all have had (or had) a decent career outside.

    So he's a decent man, but he's also terrible flawed. In his case, the flaws combine to make him a terrible PM, even when he has a massive majority.

    A skilful PM might be able to steady the ship, even now. But I fear that Starmer isn't skilful at that sort of politics. Much will depend on what happens at the Labour Party conference.

    "I'm starting to feel a little sorry for Starmer"

    Nobody made him take the job.

    He sat in Corbyn's Shadow Cabint for years whilst it was cover for some pretty hateful thinking. Time he clearly didn't use to come up with implementing a strategy of practical difference from what the Tories were doing. "We're not the Tories!" isn't enough when not only are you just as shit, you have been trusted as the receptacle for millions of voters' hopes for something much better.
    That's not quite fair. He showed some backbone and resigned as shadow home office minister in June 2016.

    Unfortunately, the backbone disappeared in September 2016, when he accepted another job in Corbyn's shadow cabinet. :)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    Nigelb said:

    "Building of three new towns will start before election, Labour pledges"

    "A taskforce has recommended 12 locations in England for development, with three areas - Tempsford in Bedfordshire, Leeds South Bank, and Crews Hill in north London - identified as the most promising sites."
    ...
    "Meanwhile, recent figures showed the number of planning approvals for new homes in England fell to a record low during Labour's first year in office."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly1geen679o

    I guess I'm going to have to complete running all the paths and roads in the area round Tempsford. I've done the A1 and all those east of it...

    All three were identified at least a year ago, as we're planning reforms which would speed up house building.

    The lack of reform (thanks, Rayner) coupled with economic conditions (cheers, Reeves) and the recent introduction of highly inflexible and very badly thought out building regulations in response to Grenfell (thanks Tories) has put building into a coma.
    I think building is in a coma because of a lack of demand at current costs. The housing market has noticeably slowed around me, with property taking a long time to sell. Until prices fall as a multiple of income, I can't see demand returning.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,024
    edited September 28
    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
  • Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
    The most remarkable thing about the consistently high Reform polling, is it’s been achieved without anyone having much of an inkling who would be Chancellor, yet alone Foreign, Defence, Health or Education Secs.

    I predict a fork in the road for them, once the election date comes into focus. If they announce a front bench team that feels credible to the electorate, then most sitting Tories (and by extension some sitting Lib Dems) are in big trouble. If not, then we will be well hung.
    Au contraire.

    Reform's success in the polls has come about because they have kept things vague, to an extent that makes even Starmer's Ming Vase look like carelessness.

    Probably sensible, given that whenever they do specifics, they turn out to be awful. And anyone who is put forward as Spokesman on X is statistically likely to have split from Nigel by the next election.
    Yes, that is the key to Farage's coalition of the contrary.

    I think it quite possible that it will implode as an election campaign gets going, but it may not, just as the Ming Vase Strategy did actually work to put Starmer in number 10.

    More likely that Reform's incoherence falls apart after the election and the world looks on in bafflement as we make Trumpistan look a model of good government.
    Shiny sixpence (which may be all I have left afterwards) says that there won't be a broad, reluctant acceptance that the Centrist Dads were right all along.

    But- if Faragism blows up, what the hell happens next?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542
    Nigelb said:

    "Building of three new towns will start before election, Labour pledges"

    "A taskforce has recommended 12 locations in England for development, with three areas - Tempsford in Bedfordshire, Leeds South Bank, and Crews Hill in north London - identified as the most promising sites."
    ...
    "Meanwhile, recent figures showed the number of planning approvals for new homes in England fell to a record low during Labour's first year in office."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly1geen679o

    I guess I'm going to have to complete running all the paths and roads in the area round Tempsford. I've done the A1 and all those east of it...

    All three were identified at least a year ago, as we're planning reforms which would speed up house building.

    The lack of reform (thanks, Rayner) coupled with economic conditions (cheers, Reeves) and the recent introduction of highly inflexible and very badly thought out building regulations in response to Grenfell (thanks Tories) has put building into a coma.
    You wouldn't believe it's in a coma if you look around where I live. Several massive developments are going up, including one about four minutes walk from my house.

    As an aside, all the planning and regulations we have can oddly appear not to work at times. Our secondary school has a long and convoluted access road. The new development is being built alongside that road, and in a couple of weeks part of the access road is being diverted to go around the houses, and then out through a totally different part of the town. This is highly stupid, as has been pointed out for years, but neither the developers or council have seemed to want to stop it. The stupid system is being built despite everyone knowing (and seemingly accepting) it is stupid.

    And yes, we need to encourage more active travel, and to be fair, it's fairly good around here. But having the school access road go around the houses makes that worse, as it removes separation of traffic from the pedestrian and bike traffic. And because it is a secondary school, many kids come from surrounding villages where the only option is to drive in.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,781
    edited September 28

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
    The most remarkable thing about the consistently high Reform polling, is it’s been achieved without anyone having much of an inkling who would be Chancellor, yet alone Foreign, Defence, Health or Education Secs.

    I predict a fork in the road for them, once the election date comes into focus. If they announce a front bench team that feels credible to the electorate, then most sitting Tories (and by extension some sitting Lib Dems) are in big trouble. If not, then we will be well hung.
    Au contraire.

    Reform's success in the polls has come about because they have kept things vague, to an extent that makes even Starmer's Ming Vase look like carelessness.

    Probably sensible, given that whenever they do specifics, they turn out to be awful. And anyone who is put forward as Spokesman on X is statistically likely to have split from Nigel by the next election.
    Yes, that is the key to Farage's coalition of the contrary.

    I think it quite possible that it will implode as an election campaign gets going, but it may not, just as the Ming Vase Strategy did actually work to put Starmer in number 10.

    More likely that Reform's incoherence falls apart after the election and the world looks on in bafflement as we make Trumpistan look a model of good government.
    Shiny sixpence (which may be all I have left afterwards) says that there won't be a broad, reluctant acceptance that the Centrist Dads were right all along.

    But- if Faragism blows up, what the hell happens next?
    Lib dem military coup.

    Ed Davey will appear in camouflage gear on T.V.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,508
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    I hit around 25% of those if I am generous to myself.

    "Loves to go out".Sure, with mates to the pub. You got any plans?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
    The most remarkable thing about the consistently high Reform polling, is it’s been achieved without anyone having much of an inkling who would be Chancellor, yet alone Foreign, Defence, Health or Education Secs.

    I predict a fork in the road for them, once the election date comes into focus. If they announce a front bench team that feels credible to the electorate, then most sitting Tories (and by extension some sitting Lib Dems) are in big trouble. If not, then we will be well hung.
    Au contraire.

    Reform's success in the polls has come about because they have kept things vague, to an extent that makes even Starmer's Ming Vase look like carelessness.

    Probably sensible, given that whenever they do specifics, they turn out to be awful. And anyone who is put forward as Spokesman on X is statistically likely to have split from Nigel by the next election.
    Yes, that is the key to Farage's coalition of the contrary.

    I think it quite possible that it will implode as an election campaign gets going, but it may not, just as the Ming Vase Strategy did actually work to put Starmer in number 10.

    More likely that Reform's incoherence falls apart after the election and the world looks on in bafflement as we make Trumpistan look a model of good government.
    Shiny sixpence (which may be all I have left afterwards) says that there won't be a broad, reluctant acceptance that the Centrist Dads were right all along.

    But- if Faragism blows up, what the hell happens next?
    Left wing Populism is pretty much the only one who hasn't had a go.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,508

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
    The most remarkable thing about the consistently high Reform polling, is it’s been achieved without anyone having much of an inkling who would be Chancellor, yet alone Foreign, Defence, Health or Education Secs.

    I predict a fork in the road for them, once the election date comes into focus. If they announce a front bench team that feels credible to the electorate, then most sitting Tories (and by extension some sitting Lib Dems) are in big trouble. If not, then we will be well hung.
    Au contraire.

    Reform's success in the polls has come about because they have kept things vague, to an extent that makes even Starmer's Ming Vase look like carelessness.

    Probably sensible, given that whenever they do specifics, they turn out to be awful. And anyone who is put forward as Spokesman on X is statistically likely to have split from Nigel by the next election.
    Yes, that is the key to Farage's coalition of the contrary.

    I think it quite possible that it will implode as an election campaign gets going, but it may not, just as the Ming Vase Strategy did actually work to put Starmer in number 10.

    More likely that Reform's incoherence falls apart after the election and the world looks on in bafflement as we make Trumpistan look a model of good government.
    Shiny sixpence (which may be all I have left afterwards) says that there won't be a broad, reluctant acceptance that the Centrist Dads were right all along.

    But- if Faragism blows up, what the hell happens next?
    Lib dem military coup !

    Ed Davey will appear in camouflage on T.V.
    I thought his problem was trying to increase his visibility?
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
    The most remarkable thing about the consistently high Reform polling, is it’s been achieved without anyone having much of an inkling who would be Chancellor, yet alone Foreign, Defence, Health or Education Secs.

    I predict a fork in the road for them, once the election date comes into focus. If they announce a front bench team that feels credible to the electorate, then most sitting Tories (and by extension some sitting Lib Dems) are in big trouble. If not, then we will be well hung.
    Au contraire.

    Reform's success in the polls has come about because they have kept things vague, to an extent that makes even Starmer's Ming Vase look like carelessness.

    Probably sensible, given that whenever they do specifics, they turn out to be awful. And anyone who is put forward as Spokesman on X is statistically likely to have split from Nigel by the next election.
    Yes, that is the key to Farage's coalition of the contrary.

    I think it quite possible that it will implode as an election campaign gets going, but it may not, just as the Ming Vase Strategy did actually work to put Starmer in number 10.

    More likely that Reform's incoherence falls apart after the election and the world looks on in bafflement as we make Trumpistan look a model of good government.
    Shiny sixpence (which may be all I have left afterwards) says that there won't be a broad, reluctant acceptance that the Centrist Dads were right all along.

    But- if Faragism blows up, what the hell happens next?
    Left wing Populism is pretty much the only one who hasn't had a go.
    OK, shiny farthing then.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,668

    According to Liz Oyer the former Pardons lawyer for the President, the Pardon power of the President has been monetised.

    An example or two; a guy whose (according to Liz Oyer) mother paid a million bucks to Trump to have dinner at Mar a Lago allegedly in exchange for her son to get out of an 18 month jail sentence. In addition Trump waived his payback requirement to the Doctors and Nurses he was convicted of skimming money off their salaries. Another convicted financial fraudster who fraudulently acquired $600m from investors, paid Trump $2m for his campaign. So by paying Trump $2m, the convict saved $598m in restitution payment and gets to keep his multi million dollar yacht acquired using the stolen (from Doctors and Nurses) cash.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-cynical-truth-about-trumps-latest-million-dollar-grift-attorney/

    The Whitehouse has been hijacked by Al Capone.

    That’s not new though?
    In what way is charging for pardons "not new"?The interview is fascinating. Not only is Trump taking substantial figures to pardon white collar criminals, significant fraudsters who have stolen millions, but he is also pardoning the court requirement to repay the ill gotten gain. Milton got to keep the $600m of embezzled funds.

    Oyer is critical of Biden for pardoning his family, but in the light of Comey, it would seem to have been expedient.

    Oyer was sacked because she refused to "advise" Pam Bondi to rescind Mel Gibson's ban on carrying firearms after his domestic abuse conviction had resulted in a ban. After she left the ban was lifted.

    This is not normal.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,678
    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    "Building of three new towns will start before election, Labour pledges"

    "A taskforce has recommended 12 locations in England for development, with three areas - Tempsford in Bedfordshire, Leeds South Bank, and Crews Hill in north London - identified as the most promising sites."
    ...
    "Meanwhile, recent figures showed the number of planning approvals for new homes in England fell to a record low during Labour's first year in office."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cly1geen679o

    I guess I'm going to have to complete running all the paths and roads in the area round Tempsford. I've done the A1 and all those east of it...

    All three were identified at least a year ago, as we're planning reforms which would speed up house building.

    The lack of reform (thanks, Rayner) coupled with economic conditions (cheers, Reeves) and the recent introduction of highly inflexible and very badly thought out building regulations in response to Grenfell (thanks Tories) has put building into a coma.
    I think building is in a coma because of a lack of demand at current costs. The housing market has noticeably slowed around me, with property taking a long time to sell. Until prices fall as a multiple of income, I can't see demand returning.
    That's a big part of it, sure.
    But the building regs have both increased costs and lengthened delay in completing projects (including refurbishments), which adds to cost.

    Serious planning reform could make a lot of building land available to local government (and in some areas, developers) at below market rates.

    It was very clear a year ago how building might move the dial for the economy (and many of the proposals for how to enable that came from Labour think tanks).
    They've just failed to deliver.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,024
    edited September 28
    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,294
    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Hmm. I'm generally sceptical of the idea that women have standards that are too high, but some of those women are presenting a very long list of requirements that basically amount to, "he must not have any flaws," which is unrealistic.

    Every human has flaws. I don't meet a lot of what those women are calling, "basic requirements," yet my wife and I have been happily married for eleven years now.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367

    According to Liz Oyer the former Pardons lawyer for the President, the Pardon power of the President has been monetised.

    An example or two; a guy whose (according to Liz Oyer) mother paid a million bucks to Trump to have dinner at Mar a Lago allegedly in exchange for her son to get out of an 18 month jail sentence. In addition Trump waived his payback requirement to the Doctors and Nurses he was convicted of skimming money off their salaries. Another convicted financial fraudster who fraudulently acquired $600m from investors, paid Trump $2m for his campaign. So by paying Trump $2m, the convict saved $598m in restitution payment and gets to keep his multi million dollar yacht acquired using the stolen (from Doctors and Nurses) cash.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-cynical-truth-about-trumps-latest-million-dollar-grift-attorney/

    The Whitehouse has been hijacked by Al Capone.

    That’s not new though?
    In what way is charging for pardons "not new"?The interview is fascinating. Not only is Trump taking substantial figures to pardon white collar criminals, significant fraudsters who have stolen millions, but he is also pardoning the court requirement to repay the ill gotten gain. Milton got to keep the $600m of embezzled funds.

    Oyer is critical of Biden for pardoning his family, but in the light of Comey, it would seem to have been expedient.

    Oyer was sacked because she refused to "advise" Pam Bondi to rescind Mel Gibson's ban on carrying firearms after his domestic abuse conviction had resulted in a ban. After she left the ban was lifted.

    This is not normal.
    @davidfrum

    To say "the Trump administration is the most corrupt administration in American history" doesn't begin to do justice to what's happening. The Trump administration is as corrupt as the most corrupt administrations in Russian or Nigerian history.

    https://x.com/davidfrum/status/1971914527114699169
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403

    According to Liz Oyer the former Pardons lawyer for the President, the Pardon power of the President has been monetised.

    An example or two; a guy whose (according to Liz Oyer) mother paid a million bucks to Trump to have dinner at Mar a Lago allegedly in exchange for her son to get out of an 18 month jail sentence. In addition Trump waived his payback requirement to the Doctors and Nurses he was convicted of skimming money off their salaries. Another convicted financial fraudster who fraudulently acquired $600m from investors, paid Trump $2m for his campaign. So by paying Trump $2m, the convict saved $598m in restitution payment and gets to keep his multi million dollar yacht acquired using the stolen (from Doctors and Nurses) cash.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-cynical-truth-about-trumps-latest-million-dollar-grift-attorney/

    The Whitehouse has been hijacked by Al Capone.

    That’s not new though?
    In what way is charging for pardons "not new"?The interview is fascinating. Not only is Trump taking substantial figures to pardon white collar criminals, significant fraudsters who have stolen millions, but he is also pardoning the court requirement to repay the ill gotten gain. Milton got to keep the $600m of embezzled funds.

    Oyer is critical of Biden for pardoning his family, but in the light of Comey, it would seem to have been expedient.

    Oyer was sacked because she refused to "advise" Pam Bondi to rescind Mel Gibson's ban on carrying firearms after his domestic abuse conviction had resulted in a ban. After she left the ban was lifted.

    This is not normal.
    What is new with Trumpism is the lack of shame. He doesn't even hide the fact that he is a crook, he flaunts it. He knows its like his UN speech. Others just have to sit and take it.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,678
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    That's very much misrepresentation of the article.
    For example, this is where you plucked the "low bar" comment from:
    “I’m happy to compromise on things. The bar is extremely low, and yet it’s rarely cleared.”

    You seem to have taken a list of what clearly ideal qualities, and turned it into a baseline.



  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    I see a lot of very demanding women on Tinder who have these lists of what they are looking for. Usually it’s just a simple issue of looking at their picture and thinking they are in no position to be demanding. Then you think, if you are nagging me already and we haven’t even met for a drink then it’s going to be hell later.

    There are bizarre expectations on both sides - the whole Incel culture for males, but the female one is bonkers with requirements over wealth, jobs, height etc .
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,297
    edited September 28
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    That just sounds like a long winded way of saying "good earnings potential, fun to be with, won't depend on me for his social life, doesn't want to get fat and unhealthy".

    The problem is, if you are a woman who is happy to be single, and you fancy men who are happy to be single, you are never likely to get together. Relationships are presumably more likely to involve the co-dependant
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    moonshine said:

    IanB2 said:

    dunham said:

    Andy_JS said:
    This map is hypothetical because it does not take into the likely of extent of anti-Reform tactical voting. The constituency boundaries will not be changing significantly for the next GE, so the best placed non-Reform party will be clear in most seats. Reform will therefore generally need support exceeding 40% in a seat to win it.
    And there are some very tight calls on it. You look at the projected result for Casino’s seat of East Hampshire, with the LibDems just behind Reform with decent Labour and Green percentages to squeeze, and surely after an active campaign that’s more likely to be a LibDem gain, on current polls?
    That's something that MRPs will struggle to pick up, even if it weren't... you know, three years until the next election.

    They can flag places where the demographics are changing in an interesting way. With hindsight, Canterbury had a fair chance of moving to Labour, thanks to the number of students. But there are a lot of factors that an MRP doesn't know about.

    Still, a relatively cheap way of filling a page in the papers with charts.
    I certainly wouldn't see East Hampshire changing hands to anything other than the Lib Dems, they are becoming the home for disgruntled moderate Tories round here. Look at NE Hants, once the biggest Tory majority in the country, now Lib Dem
    The most remarkable thing about the consistently high Reform polling, is it’s been achieved without anyone having much of an inkling who would be Chancellor, yet alone Foreign, Defence, Health or Education Secs.

    I predict a fork in the road for them, once the election date comes into focus. If they announce a front bench team that feels credible to the electorate, then most sitting Tories (and by extension some sitting Lib Dems) are in big trouble. If not, then we will be well hung.
    Au contraire.

    Reform's success in the polls has come about because they have kept things vague, to an extent that makes even Starmer's Ming Vase look like carelessness.

    Probably sensible, given that whenever they do specifics, they turn out to be awful. And anyone who is put forward as Spokesman on X is statistically likely to have split from Nigel by the next election.
    Yes, that is the key to Farage's coalition of the contrary.

    I think it quite possible that it will implode as an election campaign gets going, but it may not, just as the Ming Vase Strategy did actually work to put Starmer in number 10.

    More likely that Reform's incoherence falls apart after the election and the world looks on in bafflement as we make Trumpistan look a model of good government.
    Shiny sixpence (which may be all I have left afterwards) says that there won't be a broad, reluctant acceptance that the Centrist Dads were right all along.

    But- if Faragism blows up, what the hell happens next?
    Left wing Populism is pretty much the only one who hasn't had a go.
    OK, shiny farthing then.
    I note the libertarians have gone a bit quiet since Milei went cap in hand to Trump for a $20 billion bailout amongst a sliding economic situation.

    It's just 2 short months ago that Badenoch made Milei the model for her plans.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/jul/24/kemi-badenoch-argentinian-president-javier-milei-template-conservatives-tory-government?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542
    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.
  • Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Hmm. I'm generally sceptical of the idea that women have standards that are too high, but some of those women are presenting a very long list of requirements that basically amount to, "he must not have any flaws," which is unrealistic.

    Every human has flaws. I don't meet a lot of what those women are calling, "basic requirements," yet my wife and I have been happily married for eleven years now.
    Though the women in that article are the ones who

    a) were happy to talk to a journalist about their dating requirements, and
    b) the journalist put in their story.

    It's not only GB News etc that offer a selective, distorting window on the world.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432
    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    I see a lot of very demanding women on Tinder who have these lists of what they are looking for. Usually it’s just a simple issue of looking at their picture and thinking they are in no position to be demanding. Then you think, if you are nagging me already and we haven’t even met for a drink then it’s going to be hell later.

    There are bizarre expectations on both sides - the whole Incel culture for males, but the female one is bonkers with requirements over wealth, jobs, height etc .
    'Must be college educated' is the one that grates with me. Would as many men have such a requirement of a potential partner?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,024
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    That's very much misrepresentation of the article.
    For example, this is where you plucked the "low bar" comment from:
    “I’m happy to compromise on things. The bar is extremely low, and yet it’s rarely cleared.”

    You seem to have taken a list of what clearly ideal qualities, and turned it into a baseline.



    That was my take of what the interviewees in the article have done
  • Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    Very fair comment, and indeed our daughter has just divorced her husband of 26 years with their children 22 and 16 joining her in her new home

    However, after 61 years I affirm we have had very happy marriage

  • trukattrukat Posts: 78
    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    That's very much misrepresentation of the article.
    For example, this is where you plucked the "low bar" comment from:
    “I’m happy to compromise on things. The bar is extremely low, and yet it’s rarely cleared.”

    You seem to have taken a list of what clearly ideal qualities, and turned it into a baseline.



    No you are misrepresenting it. the list is not what she is willing to compromise on, that is the "low bar" that no one can clear. She wants far more than that, but is willing to "settle" for her list.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    It's dead easy to meet lots of women. It's even easier to pay to meet them, if you are so inclined.

    Having a successful relationship that last years, and looking after kids, is much harder. And a much better sign of a successful man. :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702
    boulay said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    I see a lot of very demanding women on Tinder who have these lists of what they are looking for. Usually it’s just a simple issue of looking at their picture and thinking they are in no position to be demanding. Then you think, if you are nagging me already and we haven’t even met for a drink then it’s going to be hell later.

    There are bizarre expectations on both sides - the whole Incel culture for males, but the female one is bonkers with requirements over wealth, jobs, height etc .
    Yes. Women have insane expectations. eg even women who are earning £300k a year want a man who earns MORE. Just as they demand a man who is taller, even if they are six foot themselves (surveys show this)

    These wants come under the heading “masculine”, “provider”, “assertive”, etc

    And of course women don’t see the bitter irony in these insane expectations. What they want is a handsome kind tall funny intelligent multimillionaire gym-going Adonis with Oscar Wilde wit. If they ever find that man they’ve found a super-super-alpha male, not a centrist Dad

    What do super-alpha males do? They sleep around. They bed dozens of women. They tup everything in a skirt because they can. They are, in other words, unfaithful

  • Steve Reed tying himself in knots on Trevor Philips over attacks on Farage

    As Philips said to him, Starmer's language directed at Farage and Reform is de facto an attack on those labour voters who are now voting Reform and also those considering to do so

    Starmer has this all wrong tactically, and we know that Farage will loom high above this conference as he sits back, smiles, and gains even more votes

    I despair
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432
    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    It's kind of the opposite of the nightclub scene 30 years ago, epitomised by an old mate of mine.

    He wasn't much but ended up with a woman right at the very end of the night, invariably. We always wondered how he did it until I watched him one evening.

    At the end of the night, just before closing, he would select a group of women, say four or five, and pick the least attractive one. Then he would drunkenly say to her 'I've been admiring you all night' - or some such.

    She would be so delighted to get attention it never failed.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,008
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Isn't it now a case of Millions of Women arte Waiting to Reject You? (In the abstract, not aimed personally...)

    I know of ladies getting bent out of shape by the need for the affirmation of clicks on their profiles. When the clicks tun out to be dicks, it doesn't move them forward in life.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    It's dead easy to meet lots of women. It's even easier to pay to meet them, if you are so inclined.

    Having a successful relationship that last years, and looking after kids, is much harder. And a much better sign of a successful man. :)
    That may be so, beta boy, but fucking hundreds of women is a lot more fun
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,008
    Stocky said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    It's kind of the opposite of the nightclub scene 30 years ago, epitomised by an old mate of mine.

    He wasn't much but ended up with a woman right at the very end of the night, invariably. We always wondered how he did it until I watched him one evening.

    At the end of the night, just before closing, he would select a group of women, say four or five, and pick the least attractive one. Then he would drunkenly say to her 'I've been admiring you all night' - or some such.

    She would be so delighted to get attention it never failed.
    That's just a delayed version of the squaddie strategy of "Go ugly, early"...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Hmm. I'm generally sceptical of the idea that women have standards that are too high, but some of those women are presenting a very long list of requirements that basically amount to, "he must not have any flaws," which is unrealistic.

    Every human has flaws. I don't meet a lot of what those women are calling, "basic requirements," yet my wife and I have been happily married for eleven years now.
    Though the women in that article are the ones who

    a) were happy to talk to a journalist about their dating requirements, and
    b) the journalist put in their story.

    It's not only GB News etc that offer a selective, distorting window on the world.
    The story starts with the statistic that 46% of women in the USA between 25 and 44 are single, a new high, so while the interviews are with professional women perhaps quite representative.

    There's plenty of supporting evidence that young people are dating less, both male and female.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,668
    edited September 28

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    You imply the wife did something wrong.

    There can be a myriad of reasons the wife fell out of love, not all of them are perhaps down to her implied selfishness. The fact that the split was not amicable (despit your friend's assertion that it was) and dragged the children into the fray might say more about the husband than the wife. He seems to couch the split in terms of despite him being unceremoniously and unreasonably dumped upon he was man enough to remain grown up and businesslike. It reads like he was pissed off because he lost control.

    She seems calm and in control and I suspect that really annoyed him. How can he regain control after the event? Make the children pick sides.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,678
    .
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Hmm. I'm generally sceptical of the idea that women have standards that are too high, but some of those women are presenting a very long list of requirements that basically amount to, "he must not have any flaws," which is unrealistic.

    Every human has flaws. I don't meet a lot of what those women are calling, "basic requirements," yet my wife and I have been happily married for eleven years now.
    I'm reminded the Tim Minchin's song "If I Didn't Have You" in which he dispels the illusion of a true special 'soul mate' and
    says to his girlfriend 'you fell within a bell curve'.
  • trukattrukat Posts: 78
    trukat said:

    Nigelb said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    That's very much misrepresentation of the article.
    For example, this is where you plucked the "low bar" comment from:
    “I’m happy to compromise on things. The bar is extremely low, and yet it’s rarely cleared.”

    You seem to have taken a list of what clearly ideal qualities, and turned it into a baseline.



    No you are misrepresenting it. the list is not what she is willing to compromise on, that is the "low bar" that no one can clear. She wants far more than that, but is willing to "settle" for her list.
    Sry I confused the woman you are talking about with this one. "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness. These basic qualities are hard to find these days" My apologies.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    You imply the wife did something wrong.

    There can be a myriad of reasons the wife fell out of love, not all of them are perhaps down to her implied selfishness. The fact that the split was not amicable (despit your friend's assertion that it was) and dragged the children into the fray might say more about the husband than the wife. He seems to couch the split in terms of despite him being unceremoniously and unreasonably dumped upon he was man enough to remain grown up and businesslike. It reads like he was pissed off because he lost control.

    She seems calm and in control and I suspect that really annoyed him. How can he regain control after the event? Make the children pick sides.
    A friend of mine thought he was in a happy relationship. With a nice Danish girl. He and she lived together in a charming flat in Brixton for years

    One day he came home from work to find she’d gone. Not only had she gone she had meticulously stripped herself from the flat - taken every single thing that was hers or half hers, and done it all with surgical precision. Leaving the flat unnervingly clean (she was on the spectrum. As is he)

    She did all this without any warning, and in one day. And then disappeared before he got home without leaving even a note

    I don’t think he’s ever really recovered
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,294

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    "Happily married" does cover a multitude of sins. But we are willing and able to talk about our mutual and individual problems and upsets and flaws.

    For me it is mutual communication and compassion that are the root of a lasting relationship.

    So much of what was on the shopping lists of requirements in that article are things that can change due to external circumstance. They don't reflect the essence of the person you might have a relationship with.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,811

    Eabhal said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Interesting. Apparently one the more attractive things about me is that I give off the sense that I would be perfectly happy and successful by myself. It's a bit of a meme but the best advice for single men is to get yourself into a place where you don't need a woman as a prop.
    IME "what women want" from a long-term relationship is as varied as women, as I think that article shows. It can also change once they are in a settled relationship.

    Mrs J wanted to continue her career, which really matters to her. She would be very unhappy not working. A female friend and ex-colleague of ours was the opposite: she was all to ready to chuck in her job to look after their kids full-time. Two different women, similar occupations, similar ages, with very different viewpoints.

    Without wanting to be accused of mansplaining, my one piece of advice to men who want a long-term relationship with a woman is "Don't be an asshole." And that's advice I've started giving my son now he's starting to talk about relationships.

    And you can exhibit strength without being an asshole. Too many men confuse the two...
    Good morning

    The comments in your penultimate paragraph are why my wife and I have passed 61 years of very happy married life
    It's an interesting piece, but of course expectations and hopes vary. Specifically relevant to politics, I'm happy in my second marriage, but accept a lot of the blame for the failure of my first, because it's really difficult to combine being an MP with any sort of relationship. You are half the week in one place and half somewhere else (unless you are a London MP), and even when you're around you have weird working hours up to 1030pm, and in the constituency you have the impossible task of keeping in touch with 70,000 people. I gave it a serious shot and changed a Tory majority of 9800 in 1992 into three Labour wins and ultimately a narrow 400-vote defeat in 2010 (when the national result was very similar to 1992), but in retrospect at the cost of my private life. In the end, my marriage simply disappeared, amicably but with, I think, little sense of loss. There was no unfaithfulness or other obvious causes, simply an absence of real togetherness.

    Obviously some people make it work, and I don't pretend to be any kind of model, but the system is antithetical to a reasonable personal life.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,800
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    Too much to hope for a hint of self-awareness?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    I think there are two peaks in divorces. One after a couple of years, when it wasn't a very good match in the first place, and secondly when the kids leave home, and the couple are faced with being a couple again. It's true too that women initiate most divorces.

    I think what your friend experienced as a surprise is because of the "Walk Away Wife" situation. Wives (and Husbands too) who have made the decision to leave stop arguing and complaining in the run up to leaving. It reaches a point that there is no reason to fight, and the partner thinks things are getting better before the real truth manifests as a surprise departure.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,648
    edited September 28
    Leon said:

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    You imply the wife did something wrong.

    There can be a myriad of reasons the wife fell out of love, not all of them are perhaps down to her implied selfishness. The fact that the split was not amicable (despit your friend's assertion that it was) and dragged the children into the fray might say more about the husband than the wife. He seems to couch the split in terms of despite him being unceremoniously and unreasonably dumped upon he was man enough to remain grown up and businesslike. It reads like he was pissed off because he lost control.

    She seems calm and in control and I suspect that really annoyed him. How can he regain control after the event? Make the children pick sides.
    A friend of mine thought he was in a happy relationship. With a nice Danish girl. He and she lived together in a charming flat in Brixton for years

    One day he came home from work to find she’d gone. Not only had she gone she had meticulously stripped herself from the flat - taken every single thing that was hers or half hers, and done it all with surgical precision. Leaving the flat unnervingly clean (she was on the spectrum. As is he)

    She did all this without any warning, and in one day. And then disappeared before he got home without leaving even a note

    I don’t think he’s ever really recovered
    I had one of my employees do exactly that to my and her colleagues amazement, but an element of good for her !!!!!

    This was circa 1990
  • Sharon Graham slamming net zero and Ed Miliband on Sky
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702

    Leon said:

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    You imply the wife did something wrong.

    There can be a myriad of reasons the wife fell out of love, not all of them are perhaps down to her implied selfishness. The fact that the split was not amicable (despit your friend's assertion that it was) and dragged the children into the fray might say more about the husband than the wife. He seems to couch the split in terms of despite him being unceremoniously and unreasonably dumped upon he was man enough to remain grown up and businesslike. It reads like he was pissed off because he lost control.

    She seems calm and in control and I suspect that really annoyed him. How can he regain control after the event? Make the children pick sides.
    A friend of mine thought he was in a happy relationship. With a nice Danish girl. He and she lived together in a charming flat in Brixton for years

    One day he came home from work to find she’d gone. Not only had she gone she had meticulously stripped herself from the flat - taken every single thing that was hers or half hers, and done it all with surgical precision. Leaving the flat unnervingly clean (she was on the spectrum. As is he)

    She did all this without any warning, and in one day. And then disappeared before he got home without leaving even a note

    I don’t think he’s ever really recovered
    I had one of my employees do exactly that to my and her colleagues amazement, but an element of good for her !!!!!

    This was circa 1990
    Yes I’m not blaming her

    In her own spectrum-y way she probably thought she was doing the right and kind thing. A super clean break. Rip away the plaster in one go

    Sadly the impact on my friend was more traumatic than she likely hoped
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,668
    Leon said:

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    You imply the wife did something wrong.

    There can be a myriad of reasons the wife fell out of love, not all of them are perhaps down to her implied selfishness. The fact that the split was not amicable (despit your friend's assertion that it was) and dragged the children into the fray might say more about the husband than the wife. He seems to couch the split in terms of despite him being unceremoniously and unreasonably dumped upon he was man enough to remain grown up and businesslike. It reads like he was pissed off because he lost control.

    She seems calm and in control and I suspect that really annoyed him. How can he regain control after the event? Make the children pick sides.
    A friend of mine thought he was in a happy relationship. With a nice Danish girl. He and she lived together in a charming flat in Brixton for years

    One day he came home from work to find she’d gone. Not only had she gone she had meticulously stripped herself from the flat - taken every single thing that was hers or half hers, and done it all with surgical precision. Leaving the flat unnervingly clean (she was on the spectrum. As is he)

    She did all this without any warning, and in one day. And then disappeared before he got home without leaving even a note

    I don’t think he’s ever really recovered
    Is that a confirmed clinical diagnosis or your diagnosis as an expert on autism?

    What has autism got to do with breaking up?

  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,091
    Foxy said:

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    I think there are two peaks in divorces. One after a couple of years, when it wasn't a very good match in the first place, and secondly when the kids leave home, and the couple are faced with being a couple again. It's true too that women initiate most divorces.

    I think what your friend experienced as a surprise is because of the "Walk Away Wife" situation. Wives (and Husbands too) who have made the decision to leave stop arguing and complaining in the run up to leaving. It reaches a point that there is no reason to fight, and the partner thinks things are getting better before the real truth manifests as a surprise departure.
    I'd suggest a possible third one at retirement; I've no idea on the stats.

    I knew one couple (both Doctors - a GP and a hospital -ologist consultant). He went part time first. When she retired he just said "I don't want to do this anymore", and they divorced.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702
    Foxy said:

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    I think there are two peaks in divorces. One after a couple of years, when it wasn't a very good match in the first place, and secondly when the kids leave home, and the couple are faced with being a couple again. It's true too that women initiate most divorces.

    I think what your friend experienced as a surprise is because of the "Walk Away Wife" situation. Wives (and Husbands too) who have made the decision to leave stop arguing and complaining in the run up to leaving. It reaches a point that there is no reason to fight, and the partner thinks things are getting better before the real truth manifests as a surprise departure.
    It seems that Labour have reached the stage of the “walk away wife”

    EXCLUSIVE: More than half of Labour members want a change of party leader before the next general election

    Labourlist
  • Steve Reed tying himself in knots on Trevor Philips over attacks on Farage

    As Philips said to him, Starmer's language directed at Farage and Reform is de facto an attack on those labour voters who are now voting Reform and also those considering to do so

    Starmer has this all wrong tactically, and we know that Farage will loom high above this conference as he sits back, smiles, and gains even more votes

    I despair

    Steve Reed was certainly the worst Agriculture Secretary since the First World War, one of the weakest members of the weakest cabinet of the 20th or 21st century. Clearly he only has a job now because of Angela Rayner's spectacular fall. Rachel from accounts thinks he is wonderful, but no, he isn't SO bad that she is not worse I will concede.

    The diplomacy of the NFU President on meeting the new minister - I know nothing about you but you can't be as incompetent as your pre-decessor. No-one else in the Farming sector was so complementary about him. No wonder Rachel loves him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702

    Leon said:

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    You imply the wife did something wrong.

    There can be a myriad of reasons the wife fell out of love, not all of them are perhaps down to her implied selfishness. The fact that the split was not amicable (despit your friend's assertion that it was) and dragged the children into the fray might say more about the husband than the wife. He seems to couch the split in terms of despite him being unceremoniously and unreasonably dumped upon he was man enough to remain grown up and businesslike. It reads like he was pissed off because he lost control.

    She seems calm and in control and I suspect that really annoyed him. How can he regain control after the event? Make the children pick sides.
    A friend of mine thought he was in a happy relationship. With a nice Danish girl. He and she lived together in a charming flat in Brixton for years

    One day he came home from work to find she’d gone. Not only had she gone she had meticulously stripped herself from the flat - taken every single thing that was hers or half hers, and done it all with surgical precision. Leaving the flat unnervingly clean (she was on the spectrum. As is he)

    She did all this without any warning, and in one day. And then disappeared before he got home without leaving even a note

    I don’t think he’s ever really recovered
    Is that a confirmed clinical diagnosis or your diagnosis as an expert on autism?

    What has autism got to do with breaking up?

    They are both diagnosed and both talked openly about it - to me and others

    Next
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    I know three people similar happened to. Two male and one female.

    With the female, she was utterly poleaxed by it. He announced leaving when the youngest of four children turned 18. Had been planning it for years, she had no idea. She lives with her mother now, has lost her husband and an element of financial security.

    It's very sad, especially when married IMO. Marriage for all those years is a massive investment for someone to lose. I think it's a very mean thing to do to someone.
  • Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    I think there are two peaks in divorces. One after a couple of years, when it wasn't a very good match in the first place, and secondly when the kids leave home, and the couple are faced with being a couple again. It's true too that women initiate most divorces.

    I think what your friend experienced as a surprise is because of the "Walk Away Wife" situation. Wives (and Husbands too) who have made the decision to leave stop arguing and complaining in the run up to leaving. It reaches a point that there is no reason to fight, and the partner thinks things are getting better before the real truth manifests as a surprise departure.
    It seems that Labour have reached the stage of the “walk away wife”

    EXCLUSIVE: More than half of Labour members want a change of party leader before the next general election

    Labourlist
    https://news.sky.com/story/more-than-half-of-labour-members-do-not-want-starmer-to-lead-party-into-next-general-election-poll-13439467
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,630

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    Very fair comment, and indeed our daughter has just divorced her husband of 26 years with their children 22 and 16 joining her in her new home

    However, after 61 years I affirm we have had very happy marriage

    That's nearly 2bn seconds ....
  • Steve Reed tying himself in knots on Trevor Philips over attacks on Farage

    As Philips said to him, Starmer's language directed at Farage and Reform is de facto an attack on those labour voters who are now voting Reform and also those considering to do so

    Starmer has this all wrong tactically, and we know that Farage will loom high above this conference as he sits back, smiles, and gains even more votes

    I despair

    Firstly, remember that there aren't that many Lab to Reform switchers. It's mostly Con-to-Ref and Lab-Lib or Lefty.

    Secondly, Labour have been pretty careful (perhaps too careful) to say that they understand the concerns of people flipping hard right. Sounds like a cheap gotcha question from Philips o me.

    Besides, the Conservative approach to Reform is even more dismal.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,668
    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    Too much to hope for a hint of self-awareness?
    I don't see anything wrong with her tick list. Avoidance of addicted men-children seems perfectly reasonable to me.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,666
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    I just want to check: she's OK with minor addictions to those things, right?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,800

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    Too much to hope for a hint of self-awareness?
    I don't see anything wrong with her tick list. Avoidance of addicted men-children seems perfectly reasonable to me.
    She implies all men are like that. When in fact it is just the ones she dated. I see an obvious pattern there.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,668
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    You imply the wife did something wrong.

    There can be a myriad of reasons the wife fell out of love, not all of them are perhaps down to her implied selfishness. The fact that the split was not amicable (despit your friend's assertion that it was) and dragged the children into the fray might say more about the husband than the wife. He seems to couch the split in terms of despite him being unceremoniously and unreasonably dumped upon he was man enough to remain grown up and businesslike. It reads like he was pissed off because he lost control.

    She seems calm and in control and I suspect that really annoyed him. How can he regain control after the event? Make the children pick sides.
    A friend of mine thought he was in a happy relationship. With a nice Danish girl. He and she lived together in a charming flat in Brixton for years

    One day he came home from work to find she’d gone. Not only had she gone she had meticulously stripped herself from the flat - taken every single thing that was hers or half hers, and done it all with surgical precision. Leaving the flat unnervingly clean (she was on the spectrum. As is he)

    She did all this without any warning, and in one day. And then disappeared before he got home without leaving even a note

    I don’t think he’s ever really recovered
    I had one of my employees do exactly that to my and her colleagues amazement, but an element of good for her !!!!!

    This was circa 1990
    Yes I’m not blaming her

    In her own spectrum-y way she probably thought she was doing the right and kind thing. A super clean break. Rip away the plaster in one go

    Sadly the impact on my friend was more traumatic than she likely hoped
    What does this actually mean?

  • Steve Reed tying himself in knots on Trevor Philips over attacks on Farage

    As Philips said to him, Starmer's language directed at Farage and Reform is de facto an attack on those labour voters who are now voting Reform and also those considering to do so

    Starmer has this all wrong tactically, and we know that Farage will loom high above this conference as he sits back, smiles, and gains even more votes

    I despair

    Firstly, remember that there aren't that many Lab to Reform switchers. It's mostly Con-to-Ref and Lab-Lib or Lefty.

    Secondly, Labour have been pretty careful (perhaps too careful) to say that they understand the concerns of people flipping hard right. Sounds like a cheap gotcha question from Philips o me.

    Besides, the Conservative approach to Reform is even more dismal.
    You are underestimating how many labour voters have moved to Reform, especially in the red wall and Wales

    Trevor Philips is a Labour member and one of the best political journalists in the media

    And this is nothing to do with the conservatives
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702
    edited September 28
    We need a new threader on Starmer’s departure

    With Labour members now in favour of him going it’s surely only a matter of time. He has the worst polling of any prime minister in history. He’s not going to get any better - he’s now well over a year into the job and he’s actually getting worse

    It’s time for Labour to go back to the flat and remove all traces of Skyr Toolmakersson, and take his possessions to the recycling centre
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    I think there are two peaks in divorces. One after a couple of years, when it wasn't a very good match in the first place, and secondly when the kids leave home, and the couple are faced with being a couple again. It's true too that women initiate most divorces.

    I think what your friend experienced as a surprise is because of the "Walk Away Wife" situation. Wives (and Husbands too) who have made the decision to leave stop arguing and complaining in the run up to leaving. It reaches a point that there is no reason to fight, and the partner thinks things are getting better before the real truth manifests as a surprise departure.
    I'd suggest a possible third one at retirement; I've no idea on the stats.

    I knew one couple (both Doctors - a GP and a hospital -ologist consultant). He went part time first. When she retired he just said "I don't want to do this anymore", and they divorced.
    Yes, though that often matches the time that youngest children leave home, and partners find that they have little in common any more. Also many men find retirement tough as jobs are so important to self esteem and status.

    So a key part of planning for retirement is in rekindling other common interests, balanced with sufficient outside interests and friendships to balance that time together.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,666
    In the wake of the fires in LA, we've seen a wave of breakups.

    One couple - Australian - the husband just left their marriage of 20 years, leaving a note.

    In another case, an American returned home from Burning Man, announced that he couldn't do it anymore, and left immediately. He's refusing to speak to his wife and wants everything handled through email.

    Both these couples lost their homes in the fires.

    We know another couple of marriages that are clearly on the rocks. Only the fact that there are kids with problems at home is keeping them together.

    I feel very fortunate.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,648
    edited September 28
    Leon said:

    We need a new threader on Starmer’s departure

    With Labour members now in favour of him going it’s surely only a matter of time. He has the worst polling of any prime minister in history. He’s not going to get any better - he’s now well over a year into the job and he’s actually getting worse

    It’s time for Labour to go back to the flat and remove all traces of Skyr Toolmakersson, and take his possessions to the recycling centre

    I just do not see how he is defenestrated, though if next May is as bad as predicted he may even decide to resign

    What follows the end of his premiership who knows
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,668
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    Too much to hope for a hint of self-awareness?
    I don't see anything wrong with her tick list. Avoidance of addicted men-children seems perfectly reasonable to me.
    She implies all men are like that. When in fact it is just the ones she dated. I see an obvious pattern there.
    No she doesn't. She says "she only met men who were emotionally immature". She just hasn't met me yet.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,628

    Thinking you are "Happily married" can be dangerous. An acquaintance of mine thought he was very happily married for years. They raised a family together, had nice holidays, and bought nice things. They had a pleasant middle-class life, living in the countryside.

    The day after their youngest son left home to go to university, his wife said she was leaving him. She had been planning it for a couple of years, and had been renting a flat for six months, slowly moving her essentials in. He had seen no warning signs, and he is convinced that there was no other man involved. She had just grown out of love with him. Last time I spoke to him, they are still friends, but years later (and he is with another lady now), he is still in shock.

    The worst thing is that the kids split over it as well: some disliked the way their mum had acted, and another backed her. AIUI although he and his ex are friendly, the kids are not.

    TBF, I don't know her, and I've only got his side of the story.

    It happened in reverse to a close friend of my parents, where the husband left, after 24 years. The wife was shocked. The children would not even speak to him, for several years.

    I can understand people leaving an arsehole. But, after that length of time together, you would think there was enough affection, respect, liking to keep the relationship going.

    Sometimes, people can be quite selfish and feckless.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,628
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    I just want to check: she's OK with minor addictions to those things, right?
    When everybody you encounter is an arsehole, you’re the arsehole.
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,773
    ...
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    Too much to hope for a hint of self-awareness?
    I don't see anything wrong with her tick list. Avoidance of addicted men-children seems perfectly reasonable to me.
    She implies all men are like that. When in fact it is just the ones she dated. I see an obvious pattern there.
    It’s possible she’s just not attractive to the men she wants. Lots of people - men and women - aren’t.

    For instance, ‘self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer’ can read as perma-broke and you’re going to need to do the heavy lifting on finances. For many men capable of doing that heavy lifting, that’s not an attractive quality. The male equivalent would probably be something about how ‘the band is just about to take off’…
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    rcs1000 said:

    In the wake of the fires in LA, we've seen a wave of breakups.

    One couple - Australian - the husband just left their marriage of 20 years, leaving a note.

    In another case, an American returned home from Burning Man, announced that he couldn't do it anymore, and left immediately. He's refusing to speak to his wife and wants everything handled through email.

    Both these couples lost their homes in the fires.

    We know another couple of marriages that are clearly on the rocks. Only the fact that there are kids with problems at home is keeping them together.

    I feel very fortunate.

    Somewhere on a phone is a picture of a grinning divorce attorney standing out in the brush of California with a Jerry can of fuel and a zippo.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,668
    edited September 28
    Leon said:

    We need a new threader on Starmer’s departure

    With Labour members now in favour of him going it’s surely only a matter of time. He has the worst polling of any prime minister in history. He’s not going to get any better - he’s now well over a year into the job and he’s actually getting worse

    It’s time for Labour to go back to the flat and remove all traces of Skyr Toolmakersson, and take his possessions to the recycling centre

    I think we are still coming to terms with Nathan Gill. No need for us to start talking about Starmer in earnest just yet.

    Anyway you'll change the subject to interior design five posts in.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,630

    Steve Reed tying himself in knots on Trevor Philips over attacks on Farage

    As Philips said to him, Starmer's language directed at Farage and Reform is de facto an attack on those labour voters who are now voting Reform and also those considering to do so

    Starmer has this all wrong tactically, and we know that Farage will loom high above this conference as he sits back, smiles, and gains even more votes

    I despair

    Firstly, remember that there aren't that many Lab to Reform switchers. It's mostly Con-to-Ref and Lab-Lib or Lefty.

    Secondly, Labour have been pretty careful (perhaps too careful) to say that they understand the concerns of people flipping hard right. Sounds like a cheap gotcha question from Philips o me.

    Besides, the Conservative approach to Reform is even more dismal.
    You are underestimating how many labour voters have moved to Reform, especially in the red wall and Wales

    Trevor Philips is a Labour member and one of the best political journalists in the media

    And this is nothing to do with the conservatives
    If we take away the political labels, are we just a nation of the fiscally incontinent with those that want hand-outs battling against those that want to keep what they have? Are we seeing the breakdown of the social contract throughout the western world.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,800

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    Too much to hope for a hint of self-awareness?
    I don't see anything wrong with her tick list. Avoidance of addicted men-children seems perfectly reasonable to me.
    She implies all men are like that. When in fact it is just the ones she dated. I see an obvious pattern there.
    No she doesn't. She says "she only met men who were emotionally immature". She just hasn't met me yet.
    Yes, she does. Read the first paragraph. Apparently, it’s the fault of men, all being addicts and not wanting to commit, which is why she can’t find a suitable partner.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,666
    Should I ever need to reenter the dating pool, I would like to be honest.

    Minor video game addiction, but only to Balatro and the NYTimes games.
    No major drug or alcolhol issues. Likes to go out once a month or so with the same guys he lived with when he was 22 to the same curry place he went with those guys. Excessive quantities of beer and gastric distress have been known after these visits.
    This character was based on me: https://xkcd.com/386/
    Quite employable. Self reliant. Hates DIY. But will ensure you have the fastest internet on the street.
    Looking for someone companiable, who likes crime fiction, cooking, history and travel.
    Must be aware of the hidden costs of nuclear power. Donald J Trump / Vladamir Putin fans need not apply.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,668
    edited September 28
    ...
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    Too much to hope for a hint of self-awareness?
    I don't see anything wrong with her tick list. Avoidance of addicted men-children seems perfectly reasonable to me.
    She implies all men are like that. When in fact it is just the ones she dated. I see an obvious pattern there.
    No she doesn't. She says "she only met men who were emotionally immature". She just hasn't met me yet.
    Yes, she does. Read the first paragraph. Apparently, it’s the fault of men, all being addicts and not wanting to commit, which is why she can’t find a suitable partner.
    Do you believe she is setting her standards too high?

  • Battlebus said:

    Steve Reed tying himself in knots on Trevor Philips over attacks on Farage

    As Philips said to him, Starmer's language directed at Farage and Reform is de facto an attack on those labour voters who are now voting Reform and also those considering to do so

    Starmer has this all wrong tactically, and we know that Farage will loom high above this conference as he sits back, smiles, and gains even more votes

    I despair

    Firstly, remember that there aren't that many Lab to Reform switchers. It's mostly Con-to-Ref and Lab-Lib or Lefty.

    Secondly, Labour have been pretty careful (perhaps too careful) to say that they understand the concerns of people flipping hard right. Sounds like a cheap gotcha question from Philips o me.

    Besides, the Conservative approach to Reform is even more dismal.
    You are underestimating how many labour voters have moved to Reform, especially in the red wall and Wales

    Trevor Philips is a Labour member and one of the best political journalists in the media

    And this is nothing to do with the conservatives
    If we take away the political labels, are we just a nation of the fiscally incontinent with those that want hand-outs battling against those that want to keep what they have? Are we seeing the breakdown of the social contract throughout the western world.
    Sadly you may well be right
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,294
    Ukraine shot down 566 out of 593 (95%) of the attack drones last night and 45 out of 48 (94%) of the missiles of various types. Which is impressive, but still let a lot of ordnance through which did a lot of damage.

    There seems to be a chance to use the frozen Russian assets to buy a lot of weapons from the US, and if that includes the long range weapons that would allow Ukraine to destroy the factories producing these drones and missiles then it could transform the war.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702

    Leon said:

    We need a new threader on Starmer’s departure

    With Labour members now in favour of him going it’s surely only a matter of time. He has the worst polling of any prime minister in history. He’s not going to get any better - he’s now well over a year into the job and he’s actually getting worse

    It’s time for Labour to go back to the flat and remove all traces of Skyr Toolmakersson, and take his possessions to the recycling centre

    I just do not see how he is defenestrated, though if next May is as bad as predicted he may even decide to resign

    What follows the end of his premiership who knows
    If the bulk of the Cabinet turns on him and says “sorry old bean, but it’s time to go” - then he would surely go

    Bit like the way they did for Thatcher, except she was a great prime minister and he’s a prat

    Probably the only thing missing is a clear successor. Thatcher had several
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432
    rcs1000 said:

    Should I ever need to reenter the dating pool, I would like to be honest.

    Minor video game addiction, but only to Balatro and the NYTimes games.
    No major drug or alcolhol issues. Likes to go out once a month or so with the same guys he lived with when he was 22 to the same curry place he went with those guys. Excessive quantities of beer and gastric distress have been known after these visits.
    This character was based on me: https://xkcd.com/386/
    Quite employable. Self reliant. Hates DIY. But will ensure you have the fastest internet on the street.
    Looking for someone companiable, who likes crime fiction, cooking, history and travel.
    Must be aware of the hidden costs of nuclear power. Donald J Trump / Vladamir Putin fans need not apply.

    Can you make one evening next week?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    I just want to check: she's OK with minor addictions to those things, right?
    When everybody you encounter is an arsehole, you’re the arsehole.
    I don't think that true in this case. What we see is that women expect men to contribute at least something to a relationship in terms of communication, support and shared values. They are not often finding that.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,826
    "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness. These basic qualities are hard to find these days,” she said

    Honestly very few of my male friends (including those married) would achieve all of these qualities.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,294
    Battlebus said:

    Steve Reed tying himself in knots on Trevor Philips over attacks on Farage

    As Philips said to him, Starmer's language directed at Farage and Reform is de facto an attack on those labour voters who are now voting Reform and also those considering to do so

    Starmer has this all wrong tactically, and we know that Farage will loom high above this conference as he sits back, smiles, and gains even more votes

    I despair

    Firstly, remember that there aren't that many Lab to Reform switchers. It's mostly Con-to-Ref and Lab-Lib or Lefty.

    Secondly, Labour have been pretty careful (perhaps too careful) to say that they understand the concerns of people flipping hard right. Sounds like a cheap gotcha question from Philips o me.

    Besides, the Conservative approach to Reform is even more dismal.
    You are underestimating how many labour voters have moved to Reform, especially in the red wall and Wales

    Trevor Philips is a Labour member and one of the best political journalists in the media

    And this is nothing to do with the conservatives
    If we take away the political labels, are we just a nation of the fiscally incontinent with those that want hand-outs battling against those that want to keep what they have? Are we seeing the breakdown of the social contract throughout the western world.
    If you consider the upset over the winter fuel payment then Britain is a nation of wealthy people who want to keep what they have and have a handout on top.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,678
    Battlebus said:

    Steve Reed tying himself in knots on Trevor Philips over attacks on Farage

    As Philips said to him, Starmer's language directed at Farage and Reform is de facto an attack on those labour voters who are now voting Reform and also those considering to do so

    Starmer has this all wrong tactically, and we know that Farage will loom high above this conference as he sits back, smiles, and gains even more votes

    I despair

    Firstly, remember that there aren't that many Lab to Reform switchers. It's mostly Con-to-Ref and Lab-Lib or Lefty.

    Secondly, Labour have been pretty careful (perhaps too careful) to say that they understand the concerns of people flipping hard right. Sounds like a cheap gotcha question from Philips o me.

    Besides, the Conservative approach to Reform is even more dismal.
    You are underestimating how many labour voters have moved to Reform, especially in the red wall and Wales

    Trevor Philips is a Labour member and one of the best political journalists in the media

    And this is nothing to do with the conservatives
    If we take away the political labels, are we just a nation of the fiscally incontinent with those that want hand-outs battling against those that want to keep what they have? Are we seeing the breakdown of the social contract throughout the western world.
    In the absence of any real political leadership, or broad consensus about national direction, that's quite possible.
    That we have the huckster Farage pretending to offer something along those lines doesn't puffer much confidence for our future.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403
    rkrkrk said:

    "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness. These basic qualities are hard to find these days,” she said

    Honestly very few of my male friends (including those married) would achieve all of these qualities.

    I have all those, and modesty to boot!
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432
    rkrkrk said:

    "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness. These basic qualities are hard to find these days,” she said

    Honestly very few of my male friends (including those married) would achieve all of these qualities.

    It's so unrealistic, isn't it.

    Before social media people stumbled into relationships, often through work, good and bad, and that was the filter - you know, real life.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,949
    Good morning, everyone.

    Although less active than I was, I do occasionally post on Medium, mostly about F1. Here's my take on Verstappen and the title prospects, or lack thereof (no paywall or anything):
    https://medium.com/formula-one-forever/is-verstappen-in-the-title-fight-cb4fa8f8ca07
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,495
    Sean_F said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    IanB2 said:

    Foxy said:

    It's from America, but I suspect true in other counties including the UK too, as a large part of why the fertility rate is dropping.

    https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2025/sep/27/us-women-single-dating?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    I saw that this morning. It illustrates both sides of the issue, since while the women interviewed clearly have a point, it is also notable that they say things like "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness…. a robust social life, a focus on holistic health, compassionate and forthright communication skills, and functional independence" and all of them appear to see this long shopping list as a ”low bar". Presumably they have to also be able to tolerate the notoriously quiet, shy and retiring American women demanding all of this, as well?
    Yes, and there is a certain similarity to politics.

    Perhaps we have given people unrealistic expectations.

    Having said that both my boys are coupled up with delightful young women in long term relationships, mostly because they are kind and empathetic young men.
    I also think online dating, and the online world more widely, creates the illusion that there are millions of people you can meet and hope to choose from, which inevitably pushes towards adopting a longer list of requirements and setting a higher bar. When you only met people in real life, usually through friends, work, or in pubs and clubs, and the numbers of those who were both available and half way suitable was low, circumstances forced a more realistic approach. In particular, it’s too easy nowadays to reject the good in order to hold out for the best, who must surely be just a few more clicks away.
    Yes. Millions of Women are Waiting to Meet You
    Or perhaps not.
    ..Christal Sharp, 39, a self-employed art teacher and wedding photographer from Oregon, was among many women who said drinking, drug use and other addictions among men, especially to porn, were a major factor in why they could not find a worthy partner.

    “I tried internet dating after my divorce and … I only met men who were emotionally immature, wanted [someone] to take care of them or had major addictions to drugs, alcohol, gambling, video gaming and porn. Most guys were just looking for a woman to sleep with, not grow with.”..
    I just want to check: she's OK with minor addictions to those things, right?
    When everybody you encounter is an arsehole, you’re the arsehole.
    Justified was great. Its a series I could probably watch again.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,826
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness. These basic qualities are hard to find these days,” she said

    Honestly very few of my male friends (including those married) would achieve all of these qualities.

    I have all those, and modesty to boot!
    Did you have them all when you were 30ish? Clearly then you were a catch!
    Personally I don't love to go out (if that's defined as clubbing), am not particularly assertive and suspect that masculine is code for "tall and muscular".
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,403

    Ukraine shot down 566 out of 593 (95%) of the attack drones last night and 45 out of 48 (94%) of the missiles of various types. Which is impressive, but still let a lot of ordnance through which did a lot of damage.

    There seems to be a chance to use the frozen Russian assets to buy a lot of weapons from the US, and if that includes the long range weapons that would allow Ukraine to destroy the factories producing these drones and missiles then it could transform the war.

    There seems to be a deal brewing, perhaps what Trump was hinting at the other day.

    https://bsky.app/profile/kyivindependent.com/post/3lzu2abwqxs2x
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,668
    rcs1000 said:

    Should I ever need to reenter the dating pool, I would like to be honest.

    Minor video game addiction, but only to Balatro and the NYTimes games.
    No major drug or alcolhol issues. Likes to go out once a month or so with the same guys he lived with when he was 22 to the same curry place he went with those guys. Excessive quantities of beer and gastric distress have been known after these visits.
    This character was based on me: https://xkcd.com/386/
    Quite employable. Self reliant. Hates DIY. But will ensure you have the fastest internet on the street.
    Looking for someone companiable, who likes crime fiction, cooking, history and travel.
    Must be aware of the hidden costs of nuclear power. Donald J Trump / Vladamir Putin fans need not apply.

    After the Trump purge your available "talent" pool might have diminished somewhat.
  • It’s time to sweep aside the blockers. We are building the next generation of new towns.

    https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1972194866794058109
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,432
    DavidL said:

    Yesterday, for my birthday, my daughter had managed to get a copy of my late dad winning an episode of 15-1. She had also got digitised some early videos of our family from 1997 at the time her sister was born. In these pictures was my wife. Very different hair and glasses. I was also there and roughly half the man I am now. One of us has aged spectacularly, actually looks much better and sexier now. The other needs to get back to the gym.

    She could try a zumba class.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,702
    Foxy said:

    rkrkrk said:

    "I’m looking for a man who … has goals and ambition, is intelligent, trustworthy, a provider, supportive, considerate, kind, assertive, masculine, honest, faithful, intentional, has a healthy self-esteem and a sense of humour, loves to go out, and likes fitness. These basic qualities are hard to find these days,” she said

    Honestly very few of my male friends (including those married) would achieve all of these qualities.

    I have all those, and modesty to boot!
    I have all of those except maybe trustworthy. And, occasionally, fidelity - tho I was faithful to my only wife

    Trouble is I’m also an unreliable boozy half-insane ex smack addict once accused of rape who constantly tries to get himself killed in dangerous countries

    You can’t have it all
  • Steve Reed tying himself in knots on Trevor Philips over attacks on Farage

    As Philips said to him, Starmer's language directed at Farage and Reform is de facto an attack on those labour voters who are now voting Reform and also those considering to do so

    Starmer has this all wrong tactically, and we know that Farage will loom high above this conference as he sits back, smiles, and gains even more votes

    I despair

    Firstly, remember that there aren't that many Lab to Reform switchers. It's mostly Con-to-Ref and Lab-Lib or Lefty.

    Secondly, Labour have been pretty careful (perhaps too careful) to say that they understand the concerns of people flipping hard right. Sounds like a cheap gotcha question from Philips o me.

    Besides, the Conservative approach to Reform is even more dismal.
    You are underestimating how many labour voters have moved to Reform, especially in the red wall and Wales

    Trevor Philips is a Labour member and one of the best political journalists in the media

    And this is nothing to do with the conservatives
    On the first point, it's not about my estimates, it's about what the small print of the polls is repeatedly saying.

    And on the last, Conservative failures have an awful lot to do with Reform's rise. Both their record up to 2024, and their inability to try to land a blow on Farage. Partly because they are afraid of upsetting the voters they have lost to Nigel, partly because they might want to get into alliance with him.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,792
    DavidL said:

    Yesterday, for my birthday, my daughter had managed to get a copy of my late dad winning an episode of 15-1. She had also got digitised some early videos of our family from 1997 at the time her sister was born. In these pictures was my wife. Very different hair and glasses. I was also there and roughly half the man I am now. One of us has aged spectacularly, actually looks much better and sexier now. The other needs to get back to the gym.

    Admittedly I can manage without a wheelchair, but I need support while walking. And doing all sorts of other things.

    In other words, you lot have nothing about which to worry!

    Not that I'm bitter about the last few years. Oh no!


    And Good Morning all.
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