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Tactical voting may not be Farage’s friend – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,710
edited September 25 in General
Tactical voting may not be Farage’s friend – politicalbetting.com

Our latest poll with @FindoutnowUK, featured in @thetimes, reveals strong anti-Reform tactical voting which could cost Farage 60 seats and the possibility of an outright majority at the next general election.Read our full analysis ??https://t.co/vFXGMH6PMF https://t.co/Z1Fvugrzoo

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542
    edited September 25
    Could I have a bet on the Farage Party not being called 'Reform' by the time of the next GE?

    Edit: and first.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218
    Ryder cup this weekend !
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778
    Reform will suffer in a General Election campaign. They will have to justify their policies and candidates, whilst only getting equal TV coverage with the other parties.
    If Reform were a threat in my seat, I would certainly vote for whichever party was most likely to keep them out. A Reform government would be utterly disastrous for the country and the majority of its people, including Reform voters.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    I think the surprising figure is how many Labour voters would tactically vote for the Tories . I’m a bit dubious of that figure as most would expect the Tories to prop up Reform if they failed to get a majority .

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781
    I don't want an overall Reform Maj, I want a Reform Tory coalition, so this works for me.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778

    I don't want an overall Reform Maj, I want a Reform Tory coalition, so this works for me.

    I didn’t realise you had a death wish. Tory incompetence allied to Reform racism.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367
    @PippaCrerar

    EXCL: Keir Starmer’s head of communications, Steph Driver, has announced she is leaving Downing Street, the latest in a series of trusted aides to the prime minister who have left No 10 in recent months.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,294
    edited September 25
    Meanwhile, in the Irish Presidential election campaign...
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    EXCL: Keir Starmer’s head of communications, Steph Driver, has announced she is leaving Downing Street, the latest in a series of trusted aides to the prime minister who have left No 10 in recent months.

    The one that seems to be hanging on like a limpet is McSweeney!
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,490

    I don't want an overall Reform Maj, I want a Reform Tory coalition, so this works for me.

    I didn’t realise you had a death wish. Tory incompetence allied to Reform racism.
    I think the idea is to combine the vision, imagination and energy of Reform with the skills, experience and competence of the Tories.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781
    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    EXCL: Keir Starmer’s head of communications, Steph Driver, has announced she is leaving Downing Street, the latest in a series of trusted aides to the prime minister who have left No 10 in recent months.

    No woman problem then. Odd timing given Starmer's rumoured interview round and big announcement.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,815

    Could I have a bet on the Farage Party not being called 'Reform' by the time of the next GE?

    Edit: and first.

    Regurgitate? (whatever Trump says)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,836

    Reform will suffer in a General Election campaign. They will have to justify their policies and candidates, whilst only getting equal TV coverage with the other parties.
    If Reform were a threat in my seat, I would certainly vote for whichever party was most likely to keep them out. A Reform government would be utterly disastrous for the country and the majority of its people, including Reform voters.

    Why would it be disastrous?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,632
    edited September 25
    Times and the I reporting mandatory digital ID cards to be announced
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,490

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    So what's the gist? Build the same new track but for slow stoppers not high speed?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    Don’t forget folks we have Starmers interviews being aired after 6pm so make sure you’ve got something to drink or smoke in readiness !
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 56,008
    Andy_JS said:

    Reform will suffer in a General Election campaign. They will have to justify their policies and candidates, whilst only getting equal TV coverage with the other parties.
    If Reform were a threat in my seat, I would certainly vote for whichever party was most likely to keep them out. A Reform government would be utterly disastrous for the country and the majority of its people, including Reform voters.

    Why would it be disastrous?
    Because he is aping Trump.

    And Trump is disastrous if you don't have $100m in the bank.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,632
    Survation Scottish poll
    https://x.com/LeftieStats/status/1971206520319963364?s=19

    Holyrood also polled and is in the archive in their website, I'll fish out the figures......
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 8,164

    Times and the I reporting mandatory digital ID cards to be announced

    Should have been in their manifesto. Therefore, because it wasn’t, I disagree with it on principle.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    If it’s confirmed re ID cards then it shouldn’t be just digital . You should have a choice of digital or an actual card.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,632
    edited September 25
    Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,192

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    I'm surprised that's the criticism you think is the fairest. That you are a nasty racist piece of shit roughly on a par with the 'white baby' chancer would be my take. Maybe you havre to be of a particular mindset to both to read or write for that publication?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,294
    nico67 said:

    If it’s confirmed re ID cards then it shouldn’t be just digital . You should have a choice of digital or an actual card.

    A mandatory digital ID card might be little more than using the Government Gateway login as an ID for accessing some benefits.

    My mother, for example, does not have a smartphone, and with her troubles with eyesight and Parkinson's, is certainly never going to have one, so she's not going to be carrying around a mandatory digital ID.

    I guess we'll wait and see what the details are.
  • Times and the I reporting mandatory digital ID cards to be announced

    Will Labour's ID rollout be designed by an American company, hosted by an American company, and subject to American law? Asking for a friend in the CIA.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,218
    edited September 25
    I think you'll always get this sort of polling with a marmite character like Farage.

    Meanwhile, Burnham's stuffed it hasn't he. (Again)
    nico67 said:

    If it’s confirmed re ID cards then it shouldn’t be just digital . You should have a choice of digital or an actual card.

    I'll be honest I much prefer virtual cards on my phone compared to physical ones.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,707
    edited September 25

    Times and the I reporting mandatory digital ID cards to be announced

    Should have been in their manifesto. Therefore, because it wasn’t, I disagree with it on principle.
    Major error.
    How will a politician understand an objection when it is on a facet of character (principle) that is both missing and noncompatible with the majority of politicians?
  • nico67 said:

    If it’s confirmed re ID cards then it shouldn’t be just digital . You should have a choice of digital or an actual card.

    A mandatory digital ID card might be little more than using the Government Gateway login as an ID for accessing some benefits.

    My mother, for example, does not have a smartphone, and with her troubles with eyesight and Parkinson's, is certainly never going to have one, so she's not going to be carrying around a mandatory digital ID.

    I guess we'll wait and see what the details are.
    They could whack a digital id onto an NFC card. If they left off photos that might placate those worried about papiere bitte because it would just look like a bank card.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,294
    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/sep/25/crown-court-england-wales-law-justice-politics

    "The crown court backlog in England and Wales has risen by 10% to a new record of almost 80,000 cases, while wait times for trial dates have reached up to four years.

    Figures from the Ministry of Justice showed the open caseload was 78,329 at the end of June, up 2% from 76,957 at the end of March, the first time the backlog passed 75,000. It is also up 10% from 70,893 a year earlier, the figures show.
    ...
    There is also a new record backlog in magistrates’ courts of 361,027 cases, up 25% on 289,595 a year earlier."


    This is a big problem, but is it even in the top five big problems for the government?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,024
    The latest Ashcroft research found similar - and that centre-left tactical voting would be turbo-charged if Tory and Reform did some sort of deal
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,299

    Times and the I reporting mandatory digital ID cards to be announced

    Will Labour's ID rollout be designed by an American company, hosted by an American company, and subject to American law? Asking for a friend in the CIA.
    Don’t spread stupid conspiracy theories.

    It’s a friend in the NSA.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446

    nico67 said:

    If it’s confirmed re ID cards then it shouldn’t be just digital . You should have a choice of digital or an actual card.

    A mandatory digital ID card might be little more than using the Government Gateway login as an ID for accessing some benefits.

    My mother, for example, does not have a smartphone, and with her troubles with eyesight and Parkinson's, is certainly never going to have one, so she's not going to be carrying around a mandatory digital ID.

    I guess we'll wait and see what the details are.
    They could whack a digital id onto an NFC card. If they left off photos that might placate those worried about papiere bitte because it would just look like a bank card.
    You really have to have a photo otherwise it’s not going to help much .
  • Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,475

    Times and the I reporting mandatory digital ID cards to be announced

    Was it in the manifesto I voted on?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    Unusually, this is a subject I'm actually reasonably well-informed on (and I've read the Gilligan report). I think the below is a fair view - obviously I want the best outcome for GM and the North, so it is biased by that, but not, I hope, by anything else.

    1) The Gilligan reiterates the old chestnut about journey times. NPR isn't primarily about journey times: it's about frequency and reliability. And a holistic network. Yes, you can get in 31 minutes from Lime Street to Victoria - but not desperately reliably, and at the expense of suburban services on the line.
    2) The report says there are already two lines from Liverpool to Manchester (three if you include Headbolt Lane - which you can, but seems a stretch, because you'd need to reinstate a short bit of track for that to count). But that's normal between adjacent big cities - I think there are five routes between Glasgow and Edinburgh.
    3) Prioritise local services, says Gilligan. But then suggests filling up the existing network with city to city links, which can only be done at the expense of local services.
    4) But actually, better local services are what we all want. And that's the point of new high speed alignments: we provide new capacity, run the high speed services on that, and you can therefore run far more local services on the old network. A moment's thought will demonstrate this: with a mix of fast and slow trains, you need to leave a massive gap after the slow train leaves before you set the fast train off. If all your trains are of the same speed, you can run 15tph along a route, assuming sufficient capacity at stations. If it's a mix of fast and slow, it might be half that or less. NPR allows much better suburban services to run. This is the outcome Gilligan claims to want.
    ...(cont)...
    4) Dig a shorter east-west tunnel, with branches off, says Gilligan. But actually tunnelling itself is not THAT expensive. What is expensive is undgerground grade separated junctions. And Gilligan appears to be proposing at least five.
    5) You CAN'T get 30tph on a two-track underground railway. You just can't. The Castlefield corridor is creaking at 13-14. Thameslink gets no more than 18.
    6) Yes, the Airport station is a short distance from the Airport - this is normal, Airports are large - but you don't need a bus link, there are already powers for extending the tram. (cf the Piccadilly line at Heathrow). This is a better outcome for those travelling from further afield eg Liverpool, Leeds, N. Wales than changing at Piccadilly.
    6) All that said, actually, the SE-W tunnel Gilligan proposes, along with the regular radial routes out of Manchester, would be welcome. Indeed, rumour has it Network Rail are considering a similar (albeit smaller scale) thing as a potential solution to the Central Manchester rail bottleneck. But the thing to note is that this wouldn't be a cheap solution: all the good stuff which Gilligan lists as 'do instead' is likely to add up to far more than NPR. Less tunnelling, sure - but underground junctions, electrification, grade separated junctions, four-tracking and work on operational railways will be far more complex and expensive than a new alignment. That's why the 'use the Chat Moss' option kept getting filtered out when NPR has considered it in the past.

    Gilligan clearly knows a bit. But it is amazing what he either doesn't know or pretends not to know.

    Thanks for that. I'd just point out that whilst underground grade-separated junctions are more expensive than tunnels, they're not *that* much more expensive. What are expensive are platform is busy and bustling town or city centres. And more services require more platforms, however quickly you think passengers can get on and off, and drivers and crew can change ends.

    There's another, more fundamental, problem here: HS2 suffered massively from the naysayers because of the 'high speed' aspect, when it is actually about capacity between four urban centres (now, sadly, just one-and-a-half). A significant issue with NPR is that there are far too many separate population centres that need serving, often too close together to allow high speed between them, and too geographically disparate to be served by the same line. This is why NPR is a much better moniker than HS3. But it should perhaps be made clear that journeys will be faster because of deconfliction of services rather than massively high speeds.

    "But the thing to note is that this wouldn't be a cheap solution: all the good stuff which Gilligan lists as 'do instead' is likely to add up to far more than NPR."

    A very common feature of idiots like Gilligan during lines on maps. I still recall with joy the "Reopen the GCR" muppets wrt HS2. :)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 53,024
    This excellent speech to the UN by the Finnish president is worth twenty minutes of your time:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLhr7V0MNHo
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,490
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    Unusually, this is a subject I'm actually reasonably well-informed on (and I've read the Gilligan report). I think the below is a fair view - obviously I want the best outcome for GM and the North, so it is biased by that, but not, I hope, by anything else.

    1) The Gilligan reiterates the old chestnut about journey times. NPR isn't primarily about journey times: it's about frequency and reliability. And a holistic network. Yes, you can get in 31 minutes from Lime Street to Victoria - but not desperately reliably, and at the expense of suburban services on the line.
    2) The report says there are already two lines from Liverpool to Manchester (three if you include Headbolt Lane - which you can, but seems a stretch, because you'd need to reinstate a short bit of track for that to count). But that's normal between adjacent big cities - I think there are five routes between Glasgow and Edinburgh.
    3) Prioritise local services, says Gilligan. But then suggests filling up the existing network with city to city links, which can only be done at the expense of local services.
    4) But actually, better local services are what we all want. And that's the point of new high speed alignments: we provide new capacity, run the high speed services on that, and you can therefore run far more local services on the old network. A moment's thought will demonstrate this: with a mix of fast and slow trains, you need to leave a massive gap after the slow train leaves before you set the fast train off. If all your trains are of the same speed, you can run 15tph along a route, assuming sufficient capacity at stations. If it's a mix of fast and slow, it might be half that or less. NPR allows much better suburban services to run. This is the outcome Gilligan claims to want.
    ...(cont)...
    4) Dig a shorter east-west tunnel, with branches off, says Gilligan. But actually tunnelling itself is not THAT expensive. What is expensive is undgerground grade separated junctions. And Gilligan appears to be proposing at least five.
    5) You CAN'T get 30tph on a two-track underground railway. You just can't. The Castlefield corridor is creaking at 13-14. Thameslink gets no more than 18.
    6) Yes, the Airport station is a short distance from the Airport - this is normal, Airports are large - but you don't need a bus link, there are already powers for extending the tram. (cf the Piccadilly line at Heathrow). This is a better outcome for those travelling from further afield eg Liverpool, Leeds, N. Wales than changing at Piccadilly.
    6) All that said, actually, the SE-W tunnel Gilligan proposes, along with the regular radial routes out of Manchester, would be welcome. Indeed, rumour has it Network Rail are considering a similar (albeit smaller scale) thing as a potential solution to the Central Manchester rail bottleneck. But the thing to note is that this wouldn't be a cheap solution: all the good stuff which Gilligan lists as 'do instead' is likely to add up to far more than NPR. Less tunnelling, sure - but underground junctions, electrification, grade separated junctions, four-tracking and work on operational railways will be far more complex and expensive than a new alignment. That's why the 'use the Chat Moss' option kept getting filtered out when NPR has considered it in the past.

    Gilligan clearly knows a bit. But it is amazing what he either doesn't know or pretends not to know.

    Hang on, so Gilligan writes an article for the Spectator heaping praise on a report he actually wrote? Isn't that a bit self-serving?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,475

    Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,901

    https://www.theguardian.com/law/2025/sep/25/crown-court-england-wales-law-justice-politics

    "The crown court backlog in England and Wales has risen by 10% to a new record of almost 80,000 cases, while wait times for trial dates have reached up to four years.

    Figures from the Ministry of Justice showed the open caseload was 78,329 at the end of June, up 2% from 76,957 at the end of March, the first time the backlog passed 75,000. It is also up 10% from 70,893 a year earlier, the figures show.
    ...
    There is also a new record backlog in magistrates’ courts of 361,027 cases, up 25% on 289,595 a year earlier."


    This is a big problem, but is it even in the top five big problems for the government?

    We’ve had a listing for a Tribunal hearing in 2028.

    Which is a long way away. Although reading this site you’d think it was next week.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,202
    Roger said:

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    I'm surprised that's the criticism you think is the fairest. That you are a nasty racist piece of shit roughly on a par with the 'white baby' chancer would be my take. Maybe you havre to be of a particular mindset to both to read or write for that publication?
    Rog, that's well out of order. I've just made what I think is a reasonable argument against Lucky's reasonably straight points. Calling him a 'nasty racist piece of shit' is just straight up nasty. Particularly from someone who considered someone's comment of 'don't let the door hit your arse on your way out' a horrible comment.
    Seriously, if you're still within you're 6 minutes, see if you can delete that comment.
  • Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
    No idea, I leave that stuff to the toilet monitors.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,811
    It's often difficult to find out which party has the best chance of defeating X (X=Reform in this case). Rival claimants for your vote cite polls, the result last time, local elections and anything else that they can think of. Voters often go by who seems locally most active, but it really needs an agreement, possibly informal, between parties to indicate where they're concentrating. For example, in the last local elections Labour cut off access to its data base in my ward, as it was informally ceded to the LibDems. We were supposed to go and help in a ward where the reverse was true, but in practice we were too annoyed to do so. The ward duly elected a LibDem, who has (unusually for LibDems, to be fair) since the election been virtually silent.

    Personally I think one should vote positively, if one can find a candidate who one genuinely feels positive about. Tactical voting backfires too often. I do see the temptation if Reform stands to gain, though.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,628

    Meanwhile, in the Irish Presidential election campaign...

    Every nation has its idiots.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,663

    Scott_xP said:

    @PippaCrerar

    EXCL: Keir Starmer’s head of communications, Steph Driver, has announced she is leaving Downing Street, the latest in a series of trusted aides to the prime minister who have left No 10 in recent months.

    No woman problem then. Odd timing given Starmer's rumoured interview round and big announcement.
    Definitely got a Comms dept problem.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,192
    Interesting header. Last night's news seemed the first concerted blow back against the racists. Ch4 News and the BBC were all over it. Robinson's flaf waving thugs breaking into hotels and threatening little kids (most more articulate than those threatening them) then showing how they made money out of it by causing ugly situations and filming it.

    It was quite revolting and in pleasant contrast to Ed Davey's PPB and the Lib Dems general civility. My feeing is that like the football thugs of the 80's which were heavily intermixed with the xenophobes is the model for what we're seeing now.. i'm confident this will pass and the ones carrying the banners when it does -the Farage Jenrick Robinsons -will forfeit everything and end up no more than a footnote
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542
    Pulpstar said:

    I think you'll always get this sort of polling with a marmite character like Farage.

    Meanwhile, Burnham's stuffed it hasn't he. (Again)
    (snip)

    Burnham's hurting the government of the party he supposedly supports, at a time it needs his support.

    This alone should be enough to reduce his support amongst those who want a strong Labour government. And in the very unlikely event he becomes PM or party leader, he can expect exactly the same sort of 'help' from others.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,901
    Is there a market for the 2026 World Cup going ahead? If Israel get kicked out of qualifiers the reaction of the primary host will be interesting.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,202

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    So what's the gist? Build the same new track but for slow stoppers not high speed?
    His proposal is for a different, shorter, but more complex tunnel - south east Manchester to west Manchester, with branches to Liverpool, Bolton and Wigan to the west, and Sheffield, Leeds (and Stockport/Airport?) to the east. Along with (explicitly and implicitly) significant capacity upgrades to accommodate a big increase in the number of suburban services. Not an unreasonable suggestion, but far more complex and costly than he implies (and far more complex and costly than NPR).
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,628
    Roger said:

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    I'm surprised that's the criticism you think is the fairest. That you are a nasty racist piece of shit roughly on a par with the 'white baby' chancer would be my take. Maybe you havre to be of a particular mindset to both to read or write for that publication?
    You’re the very last person to sit in judgement on other posters.
  • nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    If it’s confirmed re ID cards then it shouldn’t be just digital . You should have a choice of digital or an actual card.

    A mandatory digital ID card might be little more than using the Government Gateway login as an ID for accessing some benefits.

    My mother, for example, does not have a smartphone, and with her troubles with eyesight and Parkinson's, is certainly never going to have one, so she's not going to be carrying around a mandatory digital ID.

    I guess we'll wait and see what the details are.
    They could whack a digital id onto an NFC card. If they left off photos that might placate those worried about papiere bitte because it would just look like a bank card.
    You really have to have a photo otherwise it’s not going to help much .
    You certainly do not need the photo on the id card itself. Whether it pops one up for some government app is another question.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542

    Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
    No idea, I leave that stuff to the toilet monitors.
    I wonder if @turbotubbs is expecting to be one of the "Are you female?" toilet inspectors? ;)
  • Sean_F said:

    Meanwhile, in the Irish Presidential election campaign...

    Every nation has its idiots.
    It does but on the other hand, it has been conventional wisdom since the end of the war that Germany should not rearm. Our Irish friend might not have noticed the shift in the zeitgeist.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,987
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    Unusually, this is a subject I'm actually reasonably well-informed on (and I've read the Gilligan report). I think the below is a fair view - obviously I want the best outcome for GM and the North, so it is biased by that, but not, I hope, by anything else.

    1) The Gilligan reiterates the old chestnut about journey times. NPR isn't primarily about journey times: it's about frequency and reliability. And a holistic network. Yes, you can get in 31 minutes from Lime Street to Victoria - but not desperately reliably, and at the expense of suburban services on the line.
    2) The report says there are already two lines from Liverpool to Manchester (three if you include Headbolt Lane - which you can, but seems a stretch, because you'd need to reinstate a short bit of track for that to count). But that's normal between adjacent big cities - I think there are five routes between Glasgow and Edinburgh.
    3) Prioritise local services, says Gilligan. But then suggests filling up the existing network with city to city links, which can only be done at the expense of local services.
    4) But actually, better local services are what we all want. And that's the point of new high speed alignments: we provide new capacity, run the high speed services on that, and you can therefore run far more local services on the old network. A moment's thought will demonstrate this: with a mix of fast and slow trains, you need to leave a massive gap after the slow train leaves before you set the fast train off. If all your trains are of the same speed, you can run 15tph along a route, assuming sufficient capacity at stations. If it's a mix of fast and slow, it might be half that or less. NPR allows much better suburban services to run. This is the outcome Gilligan claims to want.
    ...(cont)...
    4) Dig a shorter east-west tunnel, with branches off, says Gilligan. But actually tunnelling itself is not THAT expensive. What is expensive is undgerground grade separated junctions. And Gilligan appears to be proposing at least five.
    5) You CAN'T get 30tph on a two-track underground railway. You just can't. The Castlefield corridor is creaking at 13-14. Thameslink gets no more than 18.
    6) Yes, the Airport station is a short distance from the Airport - this is normal, Airports are large - but you don't need a bus link, there are already powers for extending the tram. (cf the Piccadilly line at Heathrow). This is a better outcome for those travelling from further afield eg Liverpool, Leeds, N. Wales than changing at Piccadilly.
    6) All that said, actually, the SE-W tunnel Gilligan proposes, along with the regular radial routes out of Manchester, would be welcome. Indeed, rumour has it Network Rail are considering a similar (albeit smaller scale) thing as a potential solution to the Central Manchester rail bottleneck. But the thing to note is that this wouldn't be a cheap solution: all the good stuff which Gilligan lists as 'do instead' is likely to add up to far more than NPR. Less tunnelling, sure - but underground junctions, electrification, grade separated junctions, four-tracking and work on operational railways will be far more complex and expensive than a new alignment. That's why the 'use the Chat Moss' option kept getting filtered out when NPR has considered it in the past.

    Gilligan clearly knows a bit. But it is amazing what he either doesn't know or pretends not to know.

    I don't think this kind of analysis is possible without paracetamol.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,192
    Cookie said:

    Roger said:

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    I'm surprised that's the criticism you think is the fairest. That you are a nasty racist piece of shit roughly on a par with the 'white baby' chancer would be my take. Maybe you havre to be of a particular mindset to both to read or write for that publication?
    Rog, that's well out of order. I've just made what I think is a reasonable argument against Lucky's reasonably straight points. Calling him a 'nasty racist piece of shit' is just straight up nasty. Particularly from someone who considered someone's comment of 'don't let the door hit your arse on your way out' a horrible comment.
    Seriously, if you're still within you're 6 minutes, see if you can delete that comment.
    I too just thought him a rabid right winger but then read his post of yesterday and changed my mind. If you and SeanF don't then that's fine.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446

    nico67 said:

    nico67 said:

    If it’s confirmed re ID cards then it shouldn’t be just digital . You should have a choice of digital or an actual card.

    A mandatory digital ID card might be little more than using the Government Gateway login as an ID for accessing some benefits.

    My mother, for example, does not have a smartphone, and with her troubles with eyesight and Parkinson's, is certainly never going to have one, so she's not going to be carrying around a mandatory digital ID.

    I guess we'll wait and see what the details are.
    They could whack a digital id onto an NFC card. If they left off photos that might placate those worried about papiere bitte because it would just look like a bank card.
    You really have to have a photo otherwise it’s not going to help much .
    You certainly do not need the photo on the id card itself. Whether it pops one up for some government app is another question.
    If you don’t have a photo then it’s not working . It needs to be modelled on the ones they have in the EU which you can use for a range of things not just government agencies .
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,404
    edited September 25
    Have we done this? Lib Dems leading the Tories for the first time.
    And almost ahead of Labour.


  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,358
    DougSeal said:

    Is there a market for the 2026 World Cup going ahead? If Israel get kicked out of qualifiers the reaction of the primary host will be interesting.

    Leave it on the pitch. Israel are so poor a team that they lose regularly to Scotland.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,202

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    It would be a fair criticism of me that I get a lot of my opinions from The Spectator, because it's really the one bit of the media I read the most. And I think the first thing I read about a topic, if it reads convincingly, usually becomes my opinion till something else comes along.

    So I am now officially against Northern Powerhouse Rail. I was all for it, till I read this fairly damning account of it, which is basically that it's not going to do anything for the North, because it's basically more of the HS2 project, just gussied up by Obsborne to look like his own genius levelling up scheme.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/its-time-to-admit-that-high-speed-rail-is-a-dead-end/

    Osborne did that a lot. The OBR for example was meant to be a great way to ensure Tory style fiscal rectitude, but it wasn't - it was actually a quango designed to ready us for monetary union. Northern Powerhouse Rail sounds brilliant, but it turns out:

    Called Northern Powerhouse Rail, this section alone will cost a claimed £17 billion (in reality, perhaps £30 billion). It will be a high-speed railway on which trains can never reach high speeds, because the stations are too close together. It will leave Manchester via a vastly expensive new eight-mile tunnel in the wrong direction – roughly south, only then turning west towards Liverpool, hence the longer journey time. The official reason for doing it like this is to serve Manchester Airport. But the ‘airport’ station would be almost a mile away from the airport. You’d have to transfer by bus.

    So until another, better take comes along, I'm adopting Gilligan's view that NPR is shite and we should do a Queen Elizabeth line for Northern England instead. We're out of the EU now, we can do what the populace actually needs, not continue with their ludicrous grand projets and have to pretend they're working for people.
    Unusually, this is a subject I'm actually reasonably well-informed on (and I've read the Gilligan report). I think the below is a fair view - obviously I want the best outcome for GM and the North, so it is biased by that, but not, I hope, by anything else.

    1) The Gilligan reiterates the old chestnut about journey times. NPR isn't primarily about journey times: it's about frequency and reliability. And a holistic network. Yes, you can get in 31 minutes from Lime Street to Victoria - but not desperately reliably, and at the expense of suburban services on the line.
    2) The report says there are already two lines from Liverpool to Manchester (three if you include Headbolt Lane - which you can, but seems a stretch, because you'd need to reinstate a short bit of track for that to count). But that's normal between adjacent big cities - I think there are five routes between Glasgow and Edinburgh.
    3) Prioritise local services, says Gilligan. But then suggests filling up the existing network with city to city links, which can only be done at the expense of local services.
    4) But actually, better local services are what we all want. And that's the point of new high speed alignments: we provide new capacity, run the high speed services on that, and you can therefore run far more local services on the old network. A moment's thought will demonstrate this: with a mix of fast and slow trains, you need to leave a massive gap after the slow train leaves before you set the fast train off. If all your trains are of the same speed, you can run 15tph along a route, assuming sufficient capacity at stations. If it's a mix of fast and slow, it might be half that or less. NPR allows much better suburban services to run. This is the outcome Gilligan claims to want.
    ...(cont)...
    4) Dig a shorter east-west tunnel, with branches off, says Gilligan. But actually tunnelling itself is not THAT expensive. What is expensive is undgerground grade separated junctions. And Gilligan appears to be proposing at least five.
    5) You CAN'T get 30tph on a two-track underground railway. You just can't. The Castlefield corridor is creaking at 13-14. Thameslink gets no more than 18.
    6) Yes, the Airport station is a short distance from the Airport - this is normal, Airports are large - but you don't need a bus link, there are already powers for extending the tram. (cf the Piccadilly line at Heathrow). This is a better outcome for those travelling from further afield eg Liverpool, Leeds, N. Wales than changing at Piccadilly.
    6) All that said, actually, the SE-W tunnel Gilligan proposes, along with the regular radial routes out of Manchester, would be welcome. Indeed, rumour has it Network Rail are considering a similar (albeit smaller scale) thing as a potential solution to the Central Manchester rail bottleneck. But the thing to note is that this wouldn't be a cheap solution: all the good stuff which Gilligan lists as 'do instead' is likely to add up to far more than NPR. Less tunnelling, sure - but underground junctions, electrification, grade separated junctions, four-tracking and work on operational railways will be far more complex and expensive than a new alignment. That's why the 'use the Chat Moss' option kept getting filtered out when NPR has considered it in the past.

    Gilligan clearly knows a bit. But it is amazing what he either doesn't know or pretends not to know.

    Hang on, so Gilligan writes an article for the Spectator heaping praise on a report he actually wrote? Isn't that a bit self-serving?
    There was an Irish MP in the 19th century - and I have lost his name, and if anyone knows I would be grateful - who used to conclude speeches in the HoC with 'and furthermore I agree with everything I have just said'. I often think of him (and wish I could remember his name) in cases like this.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,475

    Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
    No idea, I leave that stuff to the toilet monitors.
    I wonder if @turbotubbs is expecting to be one of the "Are you female?" toilet inspectors? ;)
    I'm not expecting any toilet inspectors. I am hoping that women will be allowed single sex spaces away from ALL men, including those who believe that they are women, and those who fantasize that they are women. Including those with all male genitalia, currently trying to impregnate their girlfriend and expecting women to change alongside them (see Durham).

    If you don't believe in the right of women to have single sex spaces then you don't believe in women's rights.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,475

    DougSeal said:

    Is there a market for the 2026 World Cup going ahead? If Israel get kicked out of qualifiers the reaction of the primary host will be interesting.

    Leave it on the pitch. Israel are so poor a team that they lose regularly to Scotland.
    Plus the World Cup is too big to fail.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542
    Well, as it's being spent, I hope you're correct. But I fear you're wrong.

    It's interesting that this is to capture emissions at a cement plant: concrete being a surprisingly large contributor to CO2 release (8% globally). But I do wonder if the money might better be spent on chemically low-carbon cement instead.

    Incidentally, a girl I knew at uni was doing Masters research into the use of flyash as a component in cement manufacture, to see how it affected the strength and other characteristics of the concrete. It's odd that flyash is now seen as an interesting option, just as the flyash production (from coal power stations) is coming to an end...
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,358

    DougSeal said:

    Is there a market for the 2026 World Cup going ahead? If Israel get kicked out of qualifiers the reaction of the primary host will be interesting.

    Leave it on the pitch. Israel are so poor a team that they lose regularly to Scotland.
    Plus the World Cup is too big to fail.
    Yes, FIFA are probably the one organisation that can’t be intimidated by Trump’s disapproval.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,836

    Times and the I reporting mandatory digital ID cards to be announced

    I won't be using it.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542

    Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
    No idea, I leave that stuff to the toilet monitors.
    I wonder if @turbotubbs is expecting to be one of the "Are you female?" toilet inspectors? ;)
    I'm not expecting any toilet inspectors. I am hoping that women will be allowed single sex spaces away from ALL men, including those who believe that they are women, and those who fantasize that they are women. Including those with all male genitalia, currently trying to impregnate their girlfriend and expecting women to change alongside them (see Durham).

    If you don't believe in the right of women to have single sex spaces then you don't believe in women's rights.
    Really? There are a lot of pro-trans feminists who you think don't believe in women's rights, then.

    Let me ask a question: why should someone who has been through full gender transition for decades, and has been using women's facilities for those decades, now have to use male, or disabled if available, facilities? What has changed?
  • Boris's book sales analysed by The Rest is Entertainment:-
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSWqr-Vt-kw&t=1433s

    TL/DR; shifting 150,000 hardbacks is impressive but does not quite cover the £2M advance.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,678
    edited September 25
    An article on the ICE shooter, which if true, means that the administration is suppressing facts in order to blame the "radical left" (ie the Democratic Party).
    https://www.kenklippenstein.com/p/the-ice-shooters-motive

  • Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
    No idea, I leave that stuff to the toilet monitors.
    I wonder if @turbotubbs is expecting to be one of the "Are you female?" toilet inspectors? ;)
    I'm not expecting any toilet inspectors. I am hoping that women will be allowed single sex spaces away from ALL men, including those who believe that they are women, and those who fantasize that they are women. Including those with all male genitalia, currently trying to impregnate their girlfriend and expecting women to change alongside them (see Durham).

    If you don't believe in the right of women to have single sex spaces then you don't believe in women's rights.
    Really? There are a lot of pro-trans feminists who you think don't believe in women's rights, then.

    Let me ask a question: why should someone who has been through full gender transition for decades, and has been using women's facilities for those decades, now have to use male, or disabled if available, facilities? What has changed?
    It's always ironic that defending women's rights to safe spaces, noble endeavour though it is, seems to involve able-bodied people invading disabled people's spaces.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778

    Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
    No idea, I leave that stuff to the toilet monitors.
    I wonder if @turbotubbs is expecting to be one of the "Are you female?" toilet inspectors? ;)
    I'm not expecting any toilet inspectors. I am hoping that women will be allowed single sex spaces away from ALL men, including those who believe that they are women, and those who fantasize that they are women. Including those with all male genitalia, currently trying to impregnate their girlfriend and expecting women to change alongside them (see Durham).

    If you don't believe in the right of women to have single sex spaces then you don't believe in women's rights.
    Absolutely. I believe in the right of women to have single sex spaces. If I didn’t, Mrs. F would justifiably kick me out.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,678

    Watch out for a RAF Typhoon shooting down a Russian MiG in NATO airspace near you soon.

    More likely to be a Romanian F16.
    They just give their airforce commanders authority to shoot down military aircraft trespassing in Romanian airspace, without having first to consult the politicians.
  • dunhamdunham Posts: 30

    Meanwhile, in the Irish Presidential election campaign...

    An interesting comment. I have been increasingly wary that EU/German approach to Europe's eastern borderlands (aka the Ukraine) in the last 15 years has echoes of the Drang nach Osten of previous German administrations.

    In UK terms, Catherine Connolly seems to have Corbynite views. If the vote was FPTP, she would have a good chance of winning Eire's fortcoming presidential election, but as it is AV, I suspect that either the FF or FG candidate will win.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,632
    Barnesian said:

    Have we done this? Lib Dems leading the Tories for the first time.
    And almost ahead of Labour.


    Not for the first time. They led with YouGov in May
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446
    ID cards could become very divisive and I expect Reform and the Tories to be against it .

    Even though polling shows a majority in favour this could change and turn into Labours poll tax moment .
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,475

    Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
    No idea, I leave that stuff to the toilet monitors.
    I wonder if @turbotubbs is expecting to be one of the "Are you female?" toilet inspectors? ;)
    I'm not expecting any toilet inspectors. I am hoping that women will be allowed single sex spaces away from ALL men, including those who believe that they are women, and those who fantasize that they are women. Including those with all male genitalia, currently trying to impregnate their girlfriend and expecting women to change alongside them (see Durham).

    If you don't believe in the right of women to have single sex spaces then you don't believe in women's rights.
    Really? There are a lot of pro-trans feminists who you think don't believe in women's rights, then.

    Let me ask a question: why should someone who has been through full gender transition for decades, and has been using women's facilities for those decades, now have to use male, or disabled if available, facilities? What has changed?
    The law has been clarified. Men CANNOT become women by surgery, by fairy dust, by will power.

    I have every sympathy for transwomen. And they have the same rights as everyone else, but just as they cannot become a horse they cannot become a woman.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542

    Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
    No idea, I leave that stuff to the toilet monitors.
    I wonder if @turbotubbs is expecting to be one of the "Are you female?" toilet inspectors? ;)
    I'm not expecting any toilet inspectors. I am hoping that women will be allowed single sex spaces away from ALL men, including those who believe that they are women, and those who fantasize that they are women. Including those with all male genitalia, currently trying to impregnate their girlfriend and expecting women to change alongside them (see Durham).

    If you don't believe in the right of women to have single sex spaces then you don't believe in women's rights.
    Really? There are a lot of pro-trans feminists who you think don't believe in women's rights, then.

    Let me ask a question: why should someone who has been through full gender transition for decades, and has been using women's facilities for those decades, now have to use male, or disabled if available, facilities? What has changed?
    The law has been clarified. Men CANNOT become women by surgery, by fairy dust, by will power.

    I have every sympathy for transwomen. And they have the same rights as everyone else, but just as they cannot become a horse they cannot become a woman.
    You don't show much sympathy.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,836
    What's Andy Burnham's position on ID cards? I suppose it would be too much to ask that he might be against them.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778
    Andy_JS said:

    Reform will suffer in a General Election campaign. They will have to justify their policies and candidates, whilst only getting equal TV coverage with the other parties.
    If Reform were a threat in my seat, I would certainly vote for whichever party was most likely to keep them out. A Reform government would be utterly disastrous for the country and the majority of its people, including Reform voters.

    Why would it be disastrous?
    Sorry, just back.

    If Reform tried to implement their more racist and Trumpist policies, a large number of people wouldn’t accept it, and would violently protest. A number of Reform supporters would also violently counter-protest. The resulting conflict would be extremely bad for all of us.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,678
    In 2016 Geoffrey Hinton said “we should stop training radiologists now" since AI would soon be better at their jobs.

    He was right: models have outperformed radiologists on benchmarks for ~a decade.

    Yet radiology jobs are at record highs, with an average salary of $520k.

    https://x.com/deenamousa/status/1971211372190106029

    I wonder how long this will last.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,542
    Is it just me, or does Sarkozy in the pic in the BBC article linked to look rather like Peter Capaldi?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp98kepmj9lo

    If so, is five years jail time for a Timelord an eternity, or nothing?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,983
    IanB2 said:

    Today faccio il turista with a trip to Venice for a fish lunch by a canal. It’s been a very nice day for it, with sunshine and clear air but not too hot. Venice was crowded, as ever, but not overwhelmed as I have sometimes seen it.


    Dog for scale. Viewcode happy.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,475

    Survation Holyrood Constituency vote
    SNP 37
    Labour 20
    Reform 18
    Con 11
    LD 7
    Green 5
    Alba 1

    List vote
    SNP 31
    Lab 18
    Reform 15
    Con 13
    LD 11
    Green 8
    Alba 2

    SNP almost knocking on an outright majority. Impossible as it is for much of PB to comprehend they’ve had a good few weeks if you ignore BBC Scotland headlines.
    Will Your Party get their act together before next May? I think not but if they did and came out with an indy curious offer they might do okay, ie a seat or two. Lot of ifs there of course.
    Are they not about to get a second hand kicking re trans when Sandie Peggie wins bigly in her claim against Fife NHS (and indirectly the Scottish Governments ludicrous Trans policies)?
    No idea, I leave that stuff to the toilet monitors.
    I wonder if @turbotubbs is expecting to be one of the "Are you female?" toilet inspectors? ;)
    I'm not expecting any toilet inspectors. I am hoping that women will be allowed single sex spaces away from ALL men, including those who believe that they are women, and those who fantasize that they are women. Including those with all male genitalia, currently trying to impregnate their girlfriend and expecting women to change alongside them (see Durham).

    If you don't believe in the right of women to have single sex spaces then you don't believe in women's rights.
    Really? There are a lot of pro-trans feminists who you think don't believe in women's rights, then.

    Let me ask a question: why should someone who has been through full gender transition for decades, and has been using women's facilities for those decades, now have to use male, or disabled if available, facilities? What has changed?
    The law has been clarified. Men CANNOT become women by surgery, by fairy dust, by will power.

    I have every sympathy for transwomen. And they have the same rights as everyone else, but just as they cannot become a horse they cannot become a woman.
    You don't show much sympathy.
    In what way? I would treat (and have done) a trans person the same as any other. I simply do not believe that you can change sex/gender or whatever you want to call it. The debate is ridiculous.

    I note that the UN has deemed that trans is not a mental illness (no doubt after significant pressure from pro trans lobbying). Yet body dysmorphia is still a mental illness.

    I do not seek to tell anyone who to live their lives, who they can have sex with, how they can dress. I merely wish the law respected and that women's single sex spaces remain for women, not for anyone who the law regards as a man.

    A you know what - this is a dangerous thing to say. People have been hounded out of work because of this belief.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,632
    nico67 said:

    ID cards could become very divisive and I expect Reform and the Tories to be against it .

    Even though polling shows a majority in favour this could change and turn into Labours poll tax moment .

    Especially once the 'you'll need it for this, and this and this comes out plus the gobby authoritarians point out what they plan to use it for in future.
    Carbon credits, programmable money
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,628
    dunham said:

    Meanwhile, in the Irish Presidential election campaign...

    An interesting comment. I have been increasingly wary that EU/German approach to Europe's eastern borderlands (aka the Ukraine) in the last 15 years has echoes of the Drang nach Osten of previous German administrations.

    In UK terms, Catherine Connolly seems to have Corbynite views. If the vote was FPTP, she would have a good chance of winning Eire's fortcoming presidential election, but as it is AV, I suspect that either the FF or FG candidate will win.
    Good afternoon, tovarisch.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,527
    FPT: Any chance the UK can supply us with some Canadian goose hunters?

    We really need them here in the Seattle area.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,404

    Barnesian said:

    Have we done this? Lib Dems leading the Tories for the first time.
    And almost ahead of Labour.


    Not for the first time. They led with YouGov in May
    Ah yes. 17% LD 16% Con and 22% Lab on 19th May.
    But it's tighter now with labour as well. Perhaps a LD breakthrough.
    There is a tipping point when it flips.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,475
    Nigelb said:

    In 2016 Geoffrey Hinton said “we should stop training radiologists now" since AI would soon be better at their jobs.

    He was right: models have outperformed radiologists on benchmarks for ~a decade.

    Yet radiology jobs are at record highs, with an average salary of $520k.

    https://x.com/deenamousa/status/1971211372190106029

    I wonder how long this will last.

    An average salary of $520k? Fuck me I made some wrong choices back then. I doubt its as high in the UK.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521

    DougSeal said:

    Is there a market for the 2026 World Cup going ahead? If Israel get kicked out of qualifiers the reaction of the primary host will be interesting.

    Leave it on the pitch. Israel are so poor a team that they lose regularly to Scotland.
    Plus the World Cup is too big to fail.
    Yes, FIFA are probably the one organisation that can’t be intimidated by Trump’s disapproval.
    I think it’s up to UEFA as Israel qualify through Europe, UEFA need to kick this into the long grass so they can wait until Israel qualify or not. As for FIFA, Infantino will do whatever Trump wants.

    The push to ban is massively being driven by Spain and it seems Spain has a massive beef about Israel/Gaza, more so than any European con try apart from Ireland as far as I can see and like Ireland they seem to be not pulling their weight when it comes to Ukraine, at least Ireland can hide behind neutrality but Spain is also being a big refusenik on increasing defence spending in line with NATO targets.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,632
    Barnesian said:

    Barnesian said:

    Have we done this? Lib Dems leading the Tories for the first time.
    And almost ahead of Labour.


    Not for the first time. They led with YouGov in May
    Ah yes. 17% LD 16% Con and 22% Lab on 19th May.
    But it's tighter now with labour as well. Perhaps a LD breakthrough.
    There is a tipping point when it flips.
    It will need a few such polls with a variety of pollsters but potentially, yeah
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,836
    edited September 25

    Andy_JS said:

    Reform will suffer in a General Election campaign. They will have to justify their policies and candidates, whilst only getting equal TV coverage with the other parties.
    If Reform were a threat in my seat, I would certainly vote for whichever party was most likely to keep them out. A Reform government would be utterly disastrous for the country and the majority of its people, including Reform voters.

    Why would it be disastrous?
    Sorry, just back.

    If Reform tried to implement their more racist and Trumpist policies, a large number of people wouldn’t accept it, and would violently protest. A number of Reform supporters would also violently counter-protest. The resulting conflict would be extremely bad for all of us.
    Thanks for the reply. I don't think their policies are racist.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,983

    FPT: Any chance the UK can supply us with some Canadian goose hunters?

    We really need them here in the Seattle area.

    Wouldn't most of them be in Canada? 😀
  • Is the ID card actually going to be called the Brit card or is that just standard Starmer wankiness?
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