Skip to content

Your regular reminder that 2 plus 2 doesn’t always equal 4 – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,710
edited September 30 in General
Your regular reminder that 2 plus 2 doesn’t always equal 4 – politicalbetting.com

If, (as I think it is) system vs anti system is becoming just as important an axis of competition as left right, then the benefits of a ‘unite the right’ strategy become much less clear cut.

Read the full story here

«1345

Comments

  • TazTaz Posts: 21,203
    edited September 22
    Foist

    In the voice of Tony Soprano
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,027
    edited September 22
    First, and there will be no mainstream alliances. Possibly so on the far left, but even then I don't think so.

    (Well not first after all. Oh what a world!)
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778
    We need PR. Then any party can be second like me.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,027

    We need PR. Then any party can be second like me.

    You're third.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778

    We need PR. Then any party can be second like me.

    Edit: third. I’m going to join the Lib Dems.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,027

    We need PR. Then any party can be second like me.

    Edit: third. I’m going to join the Lib Dems.
    But they're fourth!
  • Omnium said:

    We need PR. Then any party can be second like me.

    Edit: third. I’m going to join the Lib Dems.
    But they're fourth!
    Potentially to become the official opposition in the event of a fuker apocalypse.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,633
    I wonder who the 17% "Others" are.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,800
    Sean_F said:

    I wonder who the 17% "Others" are.

    Farage's new party? He's made it clear he does not want to work with the Conservatives.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 12,027

    Omnium said:

    We need PR. Then any party can be second like me.

    Edit: third. I’m going to join the Lib Dems.
    But they're fourth!
    Potentially to become the official opposition in the event of a fuker apocalypse.
    There is a degree to which the Mel Gibson film seems slightly prophetic. Things are not right.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,298
    edited September 22
    That poll is fascinating.

    Of course the big question is: where do all those Others go?

    If those Others are mainly Tory voters, unwilling to vote for a Farage alliance, then many of them may end up doing so if their local candidate is a familiar Tory. And, similarly, the anti-Tory Reform voters might be mollified by a suitably non-Tory local candidate.

    So might this be something that could be finessed by having Tory candidates for rural areas and the home counties, and Reform candidates for the Saxon shore and Midlands/Northern towns?

    It's really interesting that Labour seem to get a boost at the Lib Dem's expense, but the Lib Dems don't seem to be picking up any moderate Tory voters. The Lib Dems seem to be really missing the opportunity of the present political upheaval.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,508
    The Tories should be campaigning for PR. That way, the Reform and Conservative votes would be cumulative.

    But then so would Labour, LibDem, Green, Sultanarama, PC and SNP.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,792

    That poll is fascinating.

    Of course the big question is: where do all those Others go?

    If those Others are mainly Tory voters, unwilling to vote for a Farage alliance, then many of them may end up doing so if their local candidate is a familiar Tory. And, similarly, the anti-Tory Reform voters might be mollified by a suitably non-Tory local candidate.

    So might this be something that could be finessed by having Tory candidates for rural areas and the home counties, and Reform candidates for the Saxon shore and Midlands/Northern towns?

    It's really interesting that Labour seem to get a boost at the Lib Dem's expense, but the Lib Dems don't seem to be picking up any moderate Tory voters. The Lib Dems seem to be really missing the opportunity of the present political upheaval.

    So far, and we're a long, long way from the local elections, let alone the GE, that's not what's happening in the Council by-elections. Have a look at Mark Pack's site.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    FPT
    Nigelb said:

    All going swimmingly for Milei, I see,

    Argentina is a systemically important U.S. ally in Latin America, and the @USTreasury stands ready to do what is needed within its mandate to support Argentina.

    All options for stabilization are on the table.

    https://x.com/SecScottBessent/status/1970107351912075454

    I bet 51st state isn't one of those options - so it's not all options...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,681
    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    All going swimmingly for Milei, I see,

    Argentina is a systemically important U.S. ally in Latin America, and the @USTreasury stands ready to do what is needed within its mandate to support Argentina.

    All options for stabilization are on the table.

    https://x.com/SecScottBessent/status/1970107351912075454

    I bet 51st state isn't one of those options - so it's not all options...
    Well, no.

    That's Canada.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,298
    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    All going swimmingly for Milei, I see,

    Argentina is a systemically important U.S. ally in Latin America, and the @USTreasury stands ready to do what is needed within its mandate to support Argentina.

    All options for stabilization are on the table.

    https://x.com/SecScottBessent/status/1970107351912075454

    I bet 51st state isn't one of those options - so it's not all options...
    Well, no.

    That's Canada.
    Surely Canada would be states 51-60, with each province joining as a new state?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,681
    Electromagnetic catapult.

    China’s Aircraft Carrier Capability Just Made A Stunning Leap Forward

    China has simultaneously debuted its J-35 stealth fighter, J-15T fighter and KJ-600 radar plane operating from its first catapult-equipped carrier.

    https://x.com/thewarzonewire/status/1970149944217788875
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,681

    Nigelb said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    All going swimmingly for Milei, I see,

    Argentina is a systemically important U.S. ally in Latin America, and the @USTreasury stands ready to do what is needed within its mandate to support Argentina.

    All options for stabilization are on the table.

    https://x.com/SecScottBessent/status/1970107351912075454

    I bet 51st state isn't one of those options - so it's not all options...
    Well, no.

    That's Canada.
    Surely Canada would be states 51-60, with each province joining as a new state?
    Have you not been listening to the greatest president ever ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,512
    System v Anti-System, I don't like this framing. It makes Reform sound like Brando or Dean when they're more Jimmy Tarbuck or Norman Wisdom.

    The battleline is Populist v Anti-Populist.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,635
    Sean_F said:

    I wonder who the 17% "Others" are.

    Data tables are interesting 27% of current Con and 34% of current Ref go to DNV under an alliance 4% current Tories and 13% current Reform go to 'other' (Advance?)

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,367
    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: A fourth charity has dropped the Duchess of York as a patron after it emerged she sent an email apologising to paedophile financier Jeffrey Epstein for publicly disowning him.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,635
    edited September 22

    Sean_F said:

    I wonder who the 17% "Others" are.

    Data tables are interesting 27% of current Con and 34% of current Ref go to DNV under an alliance 4% current Tories and 13% current Reform go to 'other' (Advance?)

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/
    I suspect a lot of the 'other' will be 'i dont want an alliance so i will find someone appropriate' without specific intent, so a lot will end up DNV
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,512
    edited September 22
    State of Tucker Carlson here: https://x.com/i/status/1970049017082970531

    These guys are so weird.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,508
    kinabalu said:

    System v Anti-System, I don't like this framing. It makes Reform sound like Brando or Dean when they're more Jimmy Tarbuck or Norman Wisdom.

    The battleline is Populist v Anti-Populist.

    Unpopulist, looking at the polls...
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,404
    kinabalu said:

    System v Anti-System, I don't like this framing. It makes Reform sound like Brando or Dean when they're more Jimmy Tarbuck or Norman Wisdom.

    The battleline is Populist v Anti-Populist.

    Authoritarian v Liberal?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,512

    kinabalu said:

    System v Anti-System, I don't like this framing. It makes Reform sound like Brando or Dean when they're more Jimmy Tarbuck or Norman Wisdom.

    The battleline is Populist v Anti-Populist.

    Unpopulist, looking at the polls...
    REF? - I wish.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,635
    Lib Dems do rather better on the alliance voting intention than the standard voting intention suggesting a pact will drive the Gaukward squad Daveywards
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781
    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: A fourth charity has dropped the Duchess of York as a patron after it emerged she sent an email apologising to paedophile financier Jeffrey Epstein for publicly disowning him.

    The Duchess of York is yet another Brit to be trashed by this scandal - amazing considering that Epstein was American, and was associated publicly with so many powerful and wealthy Americans, that his British associates seem to be the ones losing their reputations, whilst slimeballs like Bill Gates can continue to go around lecturing the world on ethical values. I wonder who will be next in the firing line - perhaps Epstein's tailor, or someone who may have once served him in Fortnums.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 20,298
    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    Is there a time?

    Should I set my alarm clock for it?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    Yet again? - it's only 10 years since the last one and there are already 2 more scheduled for 2030 and 2033...
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: A fourth charity has dropped the Duchess of York as a patron after it emerged she sent an email apologising to paedophile financier Jeffrey Epstein for publicly disowning him.

    The Duchess of York is yet another Brit to be trashed by this scandal - amazing considering that Epstein was American, and was associated publicly with so many powerful and wealthy Americans, that his British associates seem to be the ones losing their reputations, whilst slimeballs like Bill Gates can continue to go around lecturing the world on ethical values. I wonder who will be next in the firing line - perhaps Epstein's tailor, or someone who may have once served him in Fortnums.
    I think this is a good thing.

    In the USA, it's obvious that wealth and power can get you off all sorts of noxious crimes - see their current president, and not only in relation to Epstein. In the UK, currently, it is much harder - though (say) Gary Glitter or Rolf Harris or the thing that cannot be mentioned or ???? show that we have other dimensions to our problem as well.

    We should go more like us, and less like the USA. At the moment, I think that's a really good guideline.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    The Rapture: when people with young kids get to have sex. Happens infrequently, but is a big bang with lots of consequences... :)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    malcolmg said:

    Stereodog said:

    malcolmg said:

    Dopermean said:

    carnforth said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    nico67 said:

    So if you’re a migrant on ILR and worked payed taxes and get ill then zero help.

    If you’re a Brit and done bugger all then you get paid . Instead of overhauling the ILR reform our non-contributory system.

    Welcome to the welfare state? Glad to see those on the left are finally realising it's time to reform welfare.
    Worth saying this just appeared on my Reddit feed https://www.reddit.com/r/HousingUK/s/NEJLNOkrMs

    You can tell why he’s annoyed 8 of the social houses opposite the one he has bought have families that don’t work with motobility cars that are better than the 11 year old polo they have to share

    Worse the poster can’t afford children but that isn’t a problem in the social housing
    This, going around recently, has radicalised a fair number of people:

    https://www.motabilitycheck.com

    (It works by checking Dartford crossing free ticket eligibility IIRC).
    Did the story about 20% of new car sales being via Motability ever get stood up, or is there something else going on?

    Surely the government could start by limiting the scheme to cars made in the UK, so as not to be sending subsidy money abroad?
    Wasn't it over 30%?

    Motability was set up to replace the Invacar three wheeled scooter.

    Why does anyone need a choice? If a user needs a small car, a basic Corsa should suffice. If a larger car is required a Citroen Berlingo should do the trick. If one can afford to upgrade to a BMW M5 they don't need a Motability car.
    PIP is not means tested.

    Because of the VAT exemption, the lease is less than half the price (46% per Motability themselves) so they can only afford the M5 by using motability's VAT exemption.
    The VAT is 20%, the purported 45% saving Motability claim is if you bundle in maintenance, insurance and breakdown cover and note 5 on hteir press release "Percentage savings shown are the difference between the Motability Scheme lease cost and the highest priced alternative option, expressed as a percentage."
    everything is included though, insurance , service, tyres , road tax , etc
    Tyres are always premium. An ex Motability car we own came with a new set of Continental tyres supplied via a central contract from Kwik Fit. Stick a set of mid range tyres like Kuhmo on every wheel on every Motability car when the tyres need replacing and the tyre bill is halved. The guy who had our car before us wouldn't be spending his own money on Continental tyres when there are cheap Chinese brands available.

    I didn't know much about it until we acquired an ex Motability car but I have learned a great deal since. An absolute abuse of tax payer money.
    I know I shouldn't take these things personally but there have been a number of people on here today who would support stripping my husband of his ILR and sending him back to Canada as well as taking the car that my aunt relies on away from her. Oh and also robbing my disabled uncle of his means of transport as my aunt also drives him around. I don't have that many more relations left to lose.
    I have not demanded the removal of Motability. I have questioned the need for such a wide vehicle choice (including upgrades to prestige marques) and the procurement policy for maintenance. I am not sure Motability is managed as efficiently as it could be.
    I'm somewhat puzzled about how Motability works. I'm over 65 (well over!) with Attendance Allowance and I've been allocated a wheelchair, Zimmer frame and sundry other disabled aids. I'm no longer allowed to drive, so my wife has to do all the driving, but I'm told I'm not eligible for Motability.
    I'm not envious (well, not very!) of people who do get it, but I wonder......
    It's a bit of a pig getting in and out of cars, too.
    OKC that sounds like garbage to me. I know someone who has bad back and gets whatever allowance etc, opted for motability car and his wife drives it all the time , he never drives it. they take an amount off the benefits but everything is covered , no bills for the car whatsoever.
    We established on the last thread it is because @OldKingCole is over retirement age. So he is not eligible for the benefits that make you eligible for Motability.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    One thing I'd add to XML / HTML / the web:

    A tag that allowed you to set a time local to an event, which automatically set that time to your local browser's time. Instead of this "Event at 18.00 EST", you would get "Event at 22.00 your time", with a rollover giving the local time for the event.

    (/ really, really off-topic)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: A fourth charity has dropped the Duchess of York as a patron after it emerged she sent an email apologising to paedophile financier Jeffrey Epstein for publicly disowning him.

    The Duchess of York is yet another Brit to be trashed by this scandal - amazing considering that Epstein was American, and was associated publicly with so many powerful and wealthy Americans, that his British associates seem to be the ones losing their reputations, whilst slimeballs like Bill Gates can continue to go around lecturing the world on ethical values. I wonder who will be next in the firing line - perhaps Epstein's tailor, or someone who may have once served him in Fortnums.
    I think this is a good thing.

    In the USA, it's obvious that wealth and power can get you off all sorts of noxious crimes - see their current president, and not only in relation to Epstein. In the UK, currently, it is much harder - though (say) Gary Glitter or Rolf Harris or the thing that cannot be mentioned or ???? show that we have other dimensions to our problem as well.

    We should go more like us, and less like the USA. At the moment, I think that's a really good guideline.
    When someone goes down for an Epstein related thing, I can't help thinking of Richard Chamberlin pronouncing "One", "Two" etc in the classic version of the Count of Monte Cristo.

    I have no problem with it getting to "One hundred & eighty seven thousand, nine hundred and twelve".
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,782
    edited September 22
    I have just been.given my first pair of tight corduroy jeans since the 1990's as a present, and am feeling ready for rapture.

    Are other people feeling rapture ready ?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,854
    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    Not a religious thing, more a mental health thing. The constant delusions do often lead to Kool Aid cocktails. It's a weird puritan thing and it is about time that we laughed at these people before rather than after the alleged due date.
  • 5th Charity disowns the Duchess of York

    I expect she will lose all of them
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,508

    5th Charity disowns the Duchess of York

    I expect she will lose all of them

    Her message to Epstein was toe-curling.

    Which makes a change from toe sucking.
  • I thought it was all going swimmingly for ol' Bugger's Grips?

    https://x.com/SpencerHakimian/status/1970128605050204169
  • 5th Charity disowns the Duchess of York

    I expect she will lose all of them

    Does she get anything out of these things or does she do it for free out of the goodness of her heart? Would be mildly surprised if the latter.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300

    5th Charity disowns the Duchess of York

    I expect she will lose all of them

    Does she get anything out of these things or does she do it for free out of the goodness of her heart? Would be mildly surprised if the latter.
    I don’t think you’d be surprised to learn the comedies that go in charities. I can think of one that was doing, essentially, money & reputation laundering for a billionaire.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,508
    I've just read the following:

    "[Reform] have (sic) recruited a bunch of failed and disgraced ex-Tory MPs – 17 so far."

    I had no idea so many had jumped ship.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,095
    Interesting numbers.

    Like Space Kadets, something has repulsors.

    I don't Lib Dems doing any more than Confidence and Supply, having had their fingers burnt last time.

    Do we have any verdicts on the Conference yet? Do we get a Glee King and Glee Queen?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,095

    5th Charity disowns the Duchess of York

    I expect she will lose all of them

    Her message to Epstein was toe-curling.

    Which makes a change from toe sucking.
    I think there are a lot of these coming.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,496
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    We need PR. Then any party can be second like me.

    Edit: third. I’m going to join the Lib Dems.
    But they're fourth!
    Potentially to become the official opposition in the event of a fuker apocalypse.
    There is a degree to which the Mel Gibson film seems slightly prophetic. Things are not right.
    Nah, the SNP will never even get a second referendum, let alone win it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,633

    5th Charity disowns the Duchess of York

    I expect she will lose all of them

    Her message to Epstein was toe-curling.

    Which makes a change from toe sucking.
    Was the Duchess of York one of the offerings, at Epstein's parties?
  • MattW said:

    Interesting numbers.

    Like Space Kadets, something has repulsors.

    I don't Lib Dems doing any more than Confidence and Supply, having had their fingers burnt last time.

    Do we have any verdicts on the Conference yet? Do we get a Glee King and Glee Queen?

    Ed Davey just finished an interview with Beth Rigby on Sky

    Problem is he is not top billing at present

    I really hope the UK voters reject Farage's ugly and divisive proposals

    I certainly will as will my good lady
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543

    MattW said:

    Interesting numbers.

    Like Space Kadets, something has repulsors.

    I don't Lib Dems doing any more than Confidence and Supply, having had their fingers burnt last time.

    Do we have any verdicts on the Conference yet? Do we get a Glee King and Glee Queen?

    Ed Davey just finished an interview with Beth Rigby on Sky

    Problem is he is not top billing at present

    I really hope the UK voters reject Farage's ugly and divisive proposals

    I certainly will as will my good lady
    Davey needs get angry about the problems, and calm about his solutions.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,202

    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    Is there a time?

    Should I set my alarm clock for it?
    I don't know - but I agree, it would be a nuisance to sleep through it...
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,202
    Cicero said:

    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    Not a religious thing, more a mental health thing. The constant delusions do often lead to Kool Aid cocktails. It's a weird puritan thing and it is about time that we laughed at these people before rather than after the alleged due date.
    I think that's what we are doing...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,681
    edited September 22

    Scott_xP said:

    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: A fourth charity has dropped the Duchess of York as a patron after it emerged she sent an email apologising to paedophile financier Jeffrey Epstein for publicly disowning him.

    The Duchess of York is yet another Brit to be trashed by this scandal - amazing considering that Epstein was American, and was associated publicly with so many powerful and wealthy Americans, that his British associates seem to be the ones losing their reputations, whilst slimeballs like Bill Gates can continue to go around lecturing the world on ethical values. I wonder who will be next in the firing line - perhaps Epstein's tailor, or someone who may have once served him in Fortnums.
    Rich Americans are protected, since not to do so might expose a large number of political donors.
    Some of whom might also have posts in the administration.

    Can't have that.

    Note that the current Deputy AG was the guy who negotiated Epstein's first plea deal.
    And recently interviewed Maxwell, in a private, unrecorded session, shortly before she was move to a low security prison.

    The odd Brit really doesn't figure in such calculations.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,496

    MattW said:

    Interesting numbers.

    Like Space Kadets, something has repulsors.

    I don't Lib Dems doing any more than Confidence and Supply, having had their fingers burnt last time.

    Do we have any verdicts on the Conference yet? Do we get a Glee King and Glee Queen?

    Ed Davey just finished an interview with Beth Rigby on Sky

    Problem is he is not top billing at present

    I really hope the UK voters reject Farage's ugly and divisive proposals

    I certainly will as will my good lady
    I am Spartacus. Never, ever will I vote for that scum.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,826
    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    Always sneaks up on you thsi time of year I find...
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,492
    edited September 22
    Liz Truss grasses us up to the Trump regime:

    The BBC’s North America editor is facing criticism for describing Charlie Kirk as “far-Right”.

    Sarah Smith was reporting from Kirk’s memorial service in Arizona on Sunday, where Donald Trump addressed more than 60,000 people mourning the conservative influencer.

    In a report broadcast on BBC One’s 10pm bulletin, Smith said: “Mr Kirk built a huge and devoted following for his far-Right views and his eagerness to debate with opponents.”

    Liz Truss, the former prime minister, responded on social media: “The BBC and Sarah Smith are utterly disgraceful. She should have her White House press pass rescinded. And come 2029 the whole organisation should be defunded.”

    Ms Truss highlighted the comments to Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/bbc-editor-criticised-calling-charlie-kirk-far-right/

    What a rotten snitch!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,681
    An illustration of Labour failing to get to grips with the planning mess they inherited from the previous bunch of wastrels.

    I recently visited a site in London a short walk from the Victoria Line.

    To get permission to build 14 flats, developers submitted a 1,250 page planning appliation last year. They are still waiting for a decision.

    A default 'yes' would be a gamechanger for projects like this.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1970161837502251463

    This was supposed to be one of their big, impactful policies.
    What happened ?

    (I recognise that putting Rayner in charge was probably not a great idea.)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,667
    Sean_F said:

    5th Charity disowns the Duchess of York

    I expect she will lose all of them

    Her message to Epstein was toe-curling.

    Which makes a change from toe sucking.
    Was the Duchess of York one of the offerings, at Epstein's parties?
    Careful: you don't want to get sued by a bunch of paedophiles for libel.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,681

    Liz Truss grasses us up to the Trump regime:

    The BBC’s North America editor is facing criticism for describing Charlie Kirk as “far-Right”.

    Sarah Smith was reporting from Kirk’s memorial service in Arizona on Sunday, where Donald Trump addressed more than 60,000 people mourning the conservative influencer.

    In a report broadcast on BBC One’s 10pm bulletin, Smith said: “Mr Kirk built a huge and devoted following for his far-Right views and his eagerness to debate with opponents.”

    Liz Truss, the former prime minister, responded on social media: “The BBC and Sarah Smith are utterly disgraceful. She should have her White House press pass rescinded. And come 2029 the whole organisation should be defunded.”

    Ms Truss highlighted the comments to Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/bbc-editor-criticised-calling-charlie-kirk-far-right/

    What a rotten snitch!

    And most unfair, as Smith spends a good deal of her time sanewashing the administration.

    Truss probably expects the BBC to take Fox News as a model.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543

    Liz Truss grasses us up to the Trump regime:

    The BBC’s North America editor is facing criticism for describing Charlie Kirk as “far-Right”.

    Sarah Smith was reporting from Kirk’s memorial service in Arizona on Sunday, where Donald Trump addressed more than 60,000 people mourning the conservative influencer.

    In a report broadcast on BBC One’s 10pm bulletin, Smith said: “Mr Kirk built a huge and devoted following for his far-Right views and his eagerness to debate with opponents.”

    Liz Truss, the former prime minister, responded on social media: “The BBC and Sarah Smith are utterly disgraceful. She should have her White House press pass rescinded. And come 2029 the whole organisation should be defunded.”

    Ms Truss highlighted the comments to Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/bbc-editor-criticised-calling-charlie-kirk-far-right/

    What a rotten snitch!

    Liz Truss is a traitor.

    In fact, Liz Truss being a traitor would explain a great deal...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,095
    edited September 22
    Where has the next edition of the Rapture suddenly come from?

    (Jehovah's Witnesses more or less gave up on scheduling events of that type when Jesus failed to turn up in the sky in 1878, 1881, 1914, 1925 and 1975. He is not a bus service on a magic carpet.)

    For your "religion and politics" information, education and entertainment this afternoon, here is President Trump's Spiritual Adviser, Paula White-Cain, explaining how the Jewish people were granted the "deed" to Israel, at the time of Abraham documented for the record by the Book of Genesis. This was a fortnight ago, so contemporaneous. It is abotu 60 seconds.

    President Netanyahu must be extraordinarily dedicated to his political campaign, because he is sitting through it with the most frozen expression I have ever seen on a politician.

    https://youtu.be/m-eAeW_Cpjk?t=84

    (The whole thing is gruesome.)
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    Nigelb said:

    An illustration of Labour failing to get to grips with the planning mess they inherited from the previous bunch of wastrels.

    I recently visited a site in London a short walk from the Victoria Line.

    To get permission to build 14 flats, developers submitted a 1,250 page planning appliation last year. They are still waiting for a decision.

    A default 'yes' would be a gamechanger for projects like this.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1970161837502251463

    This was supposed to be one of their big, impactful policies.
    What happened ?

    (I recognise that putting Rayner in charge was probably not a great idea.)

    These flats will be cr@p, and be utterly disconnected to services and wider society.

    We need to be building communities, not just houses (flats). Failure to do so is just repeating the hideous mistakes of the sixties. And sadly, that involves having more control over developers, not less. But that control has to be timely and according to a plan.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,228

    I have just been.given my first pair of tight corduroy jeans since the 1990's as a present, and am feeling ready for rapture.

    Are other people feeling rapture ready ?

    I do love a pair of whistlers, announcing your arrival with every step.
  • On topic, it took a long time for Labour and the Liberals to come to an implicit understanding of how not to tread on each others toes in the fight against the Conservatives.

    Reform and the Conservatives will no doubt get there eventually- though Reform have to develop a post-Nigel model and the Conservatives need to avoid utter collapse. But as long as politics involves human emotion and ambition, it's going to be tough to get there for 2028/9.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,095
    edited September 22

    Liz Truss grasses us up to the Trump regime:

    The BBC’s North America editor is facing criticism for describing Charlie Kirk as “far-Right”.

    Sarah Smith was reporting from Kirk’s memorial service in Arizona on Sunday, where Donald Trump addressed more than 60,000 people mourning the conservative influencer.

    In a report broadcast on BBC One’s 10pm bulletin, Smith said: “Mr Kirk built a huge and devoted following for his far-Right views and his eagerness to debate with opponents.”

    Liz Truss, the former prime minister, responded on social media: “The BBC and Sarah Smith are utterly disgraceful. She should have her White House press pass rescinded. And come 2029 the whole organisation should be defunded.”

    Ms Truss highlighted the comments to Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/bbc-editor-criticised-calling-charlie-kirk-far-right/

    What a rotten snitch!

    There's been quite a thing about framing Charlie Kirk as "middle of the road" conservative, or "moderate conservative". The latter phrase was from GB News during the last week.

    Karoline Leavitt has some commonalities with La Truss: they both sell pork.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,508
    moonshine said:

    I have just been.given my first pair of tight corduroy jeans since the 1990's as a present, and am feeling ready for rapture.

    Are other people feeling rapture ready ?

    I do love a pair of whistlers, announcing your arrival with every step.
    "a pair of whistlers" - double-headed Class 40s!
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    Nigelb said:

    An illustration of Labour failing to get to grips with the planning mess they inherited from the previous bunch of wastrels.

    I recently visited a site in London a short walk from the Victoria Line.

    To get permission to build 14 flats, developers submitted a 1,250 page planning appliation last year. They are still waiting for a decision.

    A default 'yes' would be a gamechanger for projects like this.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1970161837502251463

    This was supposed to be one of their big, impactful policies.
    What happened ?

    (I recognise that putting Rayner in charge was probably not a great idea.)

    These flats will be cr@p, and be utterly disconnected to services and wider society.

    We need to be building communities, not just houses (flats). Failure to do so is just repeating the hideous mistakes of the sixties. And sadly, that involves having more control over developers, not less. But that control has to be timely and according to a plan.
    Let's repeat this. We need to replace our current approach with the dutch one, where the council set outs what they want built sorts out the infrastructure and then let's the builders build their site.

    Which is literally what the council almost did where we were - between them and the local builders they owned all the land so once planning was sorted they sub-divided the plots into suitable scales for builders and let all the major firms get on and build their bits.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,496
    edited September 22
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    Is there a time?

    Should I set my alarm clock for it?
    I don't know - but I agree, it would be a nuisance to sleep through it...
    Reminds me of Arthur C Clarke, the 9 bn names of God. "And overnight, without any fuss, the stars were going out."
  • MattW said:

    Where has the next edition of the Rapture suddenly come from?

    (Jehovah's Witnesses more or less gave up on scheduling events of that type when Jesus failed to turn up in the sky in 1878, 1881, 1914, 1925 and 1975. He is not a bus service on a magic carpet.)

    Failing to turn up that frequently sounds exactly like a bus service.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,227

    Liz Truss grasses us up to the Trump regime:

    The BBC’s North America editor is facing criticism for describing Charlie Kirk as “far-Right”.

    Sarah Smith was reporting from Kirk’s memorial service in Arizona on Sunday, where Donald Trump addressed more than 60,000 people mourning the conservative influencer.

    In a report broadcast on BBC One’s 10pm bulletin, Smith said: “Mr Kirk built a huge and devoted following for his far-Right views and his eagerness to debate with opponents.”

    Liz Truss, the former prime minister, responded on social media: “The BBC and Sarah Smith are utterly disgraceful. She should have her White House press pass rescinded. And come 2029 the whole organisation should be defunded.”

    Ms Truss highlighted the comments to Karoline Leavitt, the White House press secretary.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/22/bbc-editor-criticised-calling-charlie-kirk-far-right/

    What a rotten snitch!

    Liz Truss is a traitor.

    In fact, Liz Truss being a traitor would explain a great deal...
    What does she want Smith to say? "devoted following for his liberal views"?
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,631
    edited September 22
    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    GMT or Mountain Daylight Time? I wouldn't want to be late or dressed inappropriately.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,508
    edited September 22
    The other parties seem to be trying to pick holes in Reform's "kick them out" policy, rather than just saying that it is offensive and immoral.

    Reform has succeeded in moving the argument onto their turf.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,228
    Fascinating reading on pb today. Much of the real life feedback I have had is that Farage’s proposals are common sense. That’s a view that puts you in the jackboots crowd on here.

    Even among international liberals, I have heard a resigned acceptance that the highly globalised world we knew was an aberration, and that Farage’s speech & the new US visa rules are the new norm - a reaction to rules that went too far.

    All said there is an obvious electoral liability for Farage. And that lies in the extortionate fee for a naturalised person to take the final step and get the passport - £1735! This is a massive outlier globally and a racquet to massage the figures from politicians past and present who did not have the courage to run a proper migration policy.

    The cost will feel particularly savage to those who have international marriages and have played by the (very expensive) visa rules for years. And are now being backed into paying this fee, to undo the mistakes made over the last decade.

    I would be amazed if we don’t see a noticeable shift from Tory to Lib Dem when this thought process plays out. I am far less clear it will cause much of a drift back to Tory / Labour from Reform.

    Still a long way to go before the election, this is all Overton shifting stuff.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,334
    rkrkrk said:

    Cookie said:

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but apparently it's the Rapture tomorrow.
    Coincidentally, my parents are in Utah on holiday. I'll tell them to look out for it

    Always sneaks up on you thsi time of year I find...
    It gets earlier every year. No sooner is International Cat Day over and the Thank Heavens You've Been Raptured! and the Sorry You Weren't Raptured cards start filling up the newsagent.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    moonshine said:

    Fascinating reading on pb today. Much of the real life feedback I have had is that Farage’s proposals are common sense. That’s a view that puts you in the jackboots crowd on here.

    Even among international liberals, I have heard a resigned acceptance that the highly globalised world we knew was an aberration, and that Farage’s speech & the new US visa rules are the new norm - a reaction to rules that went too far.

    All said there is an obvious electoral liability for Farage. And that lies in the extortionate fee for a naturalised person to take the final step and get the passport - £1735! This is a massive outlier globally and a racquet to massage the figures from politicians past and present who did not have the courage to run a proper migration policy.

    The cost will feel particularly savage to those who have international marriages and have played by the (very expensive) visa rules for years. And are now being backed into paying this fee, to undo the mistakes made over the last decade.

    I would be amazed if we don’t see a noticeable shift from Tory to Lib Dem when this thought process plays out. I am far less clear it will cause much of a drift back to Tory / Labour from Reform.

    Still a long way to go before the election, this is all Overton shifting stuff.

    Where are you getting this "real life feedback"?
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 793
    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    5th Charity disowns the Duchess of York

    I expect she will lose all of them

    Her message to Epstein was toe-curling.

    Which makes a change from toe sucking.
    Was the Duchess of York one of the offerings, at Epstein's parties?
    Careful: you don't want to get sued by a bunch of paedophiles for libel.
    I am not a fan of the Yorks but I have started reading "Entitled" and was surprised when the author claimed that although Sarah said she had 6 O levels, she had only 2 as 4 were D grade. Grades D and E were passes in O levels. In GCSEs D is a fail. I am surprised that in a book which claims to be thoroughly researched there was such a basic mistake.
    ,
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 68,227

    The other parties seem to be trying to pick holes in Reform's "kick them out" policy, rather than just saying that it is offensive and immoral.

    Reform has succeeded in moving the argument onto their turf.


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    2h
    Reform’s policy started with “deport people who are here illegally”. Fine. Then it was “deport people here legally who commit a serious crime”. Fine. Now it appears to be “deport people here legally”. Where’s this going to end up.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1970134234250596397
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,228

    moonshine said:

    Fascinating reading on pb today. Much of the real life feedback I have had is that Farage’s proposals are common sense. That’s a view that puts you in the jackboots crowd on here.

    Even among international liberals, I have heard a resigned acceptance that the highly globalised world we knew was an aberration, and that Farage’s speech & the new US visa rules are the new norm - a reaction to rules that went too far.

    All said there is an obvious electoral liability for Farage. And that lies in the extortionate fee for a naturalised person to take the final step and get the passport - £1735! This is a massive outlier globally and a racquet to massage the figures from politicians past and present who did not have the courage to run a proper migration policy.

    The cost will feel particularly savage to those who have international marriages and have played by the (very expensive) visa rules for years. And are now being backed into paying this fee, to undo the mistakes made over the last decade.

    I would be amazed if we don’t see a noticeable shift from Tory to Lib Dem when this thought process plays out. I am far less clear it will cause much of a drift back to Tory / Labour from Reform.

    Still a long way to go before the election, this is all Overton shifting stuff.

    Where are you getting this "real life feedback"?
    Away from the internet, there’s this shocking possibility of talking to people. I even heard they use mouths and ears to communicate.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781

    I've just read the following:

    "[Reform] have (sic) recruited a bunch of failed and disgraced ex-Tory MPs – 17 so far."

    I had no idea so many had jumped ship.

    Ann Widdecombe isn't a failed MP - she retired. I am sure others are the same. Biased, sloppy, second rate journalism.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 292

    The other parties seem to be trying to pick holes in Reform's "kick them out" policy, rather than just saying that it is offensive and immoral.

    Reform has succeeded in moving the argument onto their turf.

    Farage has aligned himself with the position of most voters and is wholly on board with their concerns. The others are trying to play catch-up but are mostly uncomfortable and unsympathetic to voters' views on migration, etc. This is vividly displayed nightly on here with the manic reactions and pearl clutching whenever Farage opines.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 20,038
    edited September 22
    eek said:

    Nigelb said:

    An illustration of Labour failing to get to grips with the planning mess they inherited from the previous bunch of wastrels.

    I recently visited a site in London a short walk from the Victoria Line.

    To get permission to build 14 flats, developers submitted a 1,250 page planning appliation last year. They are still waiting for a decision.

    A default 'yes' would be a gamechanger for projects like this.

    https://x.com/Sam_Dumitriu/status/1970161837502251463

    This was supposed to be one of their big, impactful policies.
    What happened ?

    (I recognise that putting Rayner in charge was probably not a great idea.)

    These flats will be cr@p, and be utterly disconnected to services and wider society.

    We need to be building communities, not just houses (flats). Failure to do so is just repeating the hideous mistakes of the sixties. And sadly, that involves having more control over developers, not less. But that control has to be timely and according to a plan.
    Let's repeat this. We need to replace our current approach with the dutch one, where the council set outs what they want built sorts out the infrastructure and then let's the builders build their site.

    Which is literally what the council almost did where we were - between them and the local builders they owned all the land so once planning was sorted they sub-divided the plots into suitable scales for builders and let all the major firms get on and build their bits.
    See also some of the "benevolent aristocratic despot" models of constructing new towns. Poundbury is the famous one, but there are others.

    You do seem to need the aristocrat, both to spend the cash upfront and to have the right timeframe in mind. In theory, the state could do the same, but nobody would trust them.... probably rightly.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781

    The other parties seem to be trying to pick holes in Reform's "kick them out" policy, rather than just saying that it is offensive and immoral.

    Reform has succeeded in moving the argument onto their turf.


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    2h
    Reform’s policy started with “deport people who are here illegally”. Fine. Then it was “deport people here legally who commit a serious crime”. Fine. Now it appears to be “deport people here legally”. Where’s this going to end up.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1970134234250596397
    Deport people whose main contribution to society is attempting to go 'viral' simplistic and inaccurate Twitter 'gotchas'.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    One of our neighbours has done her annual "Here's a bulb in a pot for you to plant out for the spring" visit.

    I'm starting to wonder if I need to test it to see if it is a listening device... :)
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,815
    I'm not looking forward to the guitar eating, as I get indigestion from that kind of stuff.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,228

    The other parties seem to be trying to pick holes in Reform's "kick them out" policy, rather than just saying that it is offensive and immoral.

    Reform has succeeded in moving the argument onto their turf.


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    2h
    Reform’s policy started with “deport people who are here illegally”. Fine. Then it was “deport people here legally who commit a serious crime”. Fine. Now it appears to be “deport people here legally”. Where’s this going to end up.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1970134234250596397
    It is a gradual shifting of the Overton window. It’s reasonable to ask where it ends. But there is silly hyperbole on here about what are quite moderate positions.

    Regularly requiring non citizens to justify their right to stay as a guest in a host country is not strange. I’ve had to go through such a process six times when overseas in various places. Thems the rules, I sucked them up and played by them.
  • moonshine said:

    moonshine said:

    Fascinating reading on pb today. Much of the real life feedback I have had is that Farage’s proposals are common sense. That’s a view that puts you in the jackboots crowd on here.

    Even among international liberals, I have heard a resigned acceptance that the highly globalised world we knew was an aberration, and that Farage’s speech & the new US visa rules are the new norm - a reaction to rules that went too far.

    All said there is an obvious electoral liability for Farage. And that lies in the extortionate fee for a naturalised person to take the final step and get the passport - £1735! This is a massive outlier globally and a racquet to massage the figures from politicians past and present who did not have the courage to run a proper migration policy.

    The cost will feel particularly savage to those who have international marriages and have played by the (very expensive) visa rules for years. And are now being backed into paying this fee, to undo the mistakes made over the last decade.

    I would be amazed if we don’t see a noticeable shift from Tory to Lib Dem when this thought process plays out. I am far less clear it will cause much of a drift back to Tory / Labour from Reform.

    Still a long way to go before the election, this is all Overton shifting stuff.

    Where are you getting this "real life feedback"?
    Away from the internet, there’s this shocking possibility of talking to people. I even heard they use mouths and ears to communicate.
    Shiny sixpence says that most normal people have barely heard of the policy, if at all, yet. They've been at work all day.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,782
    edited September 22
    A section of voters, maybe half of voters, but not necessarily most voters.

    That may change in the future ofciourse, but that's roughly what a selection of various polls says at the moment.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,334
    scampi25 said:

    The other parties seem to be trying to pick holes in Reform's "kick them out" policy, rather than just saying that it is offensive and immoral.

    Reform has succeeded in moving the argument onto their turf.

    Farage has aligned himself with the position of most voters and is wholly on board with their concerns. The others are trying to play catch-up but are mostly uncomfortable and unsympathetic to voters' views on migration, etc. This is vividly displayed nightly on here with the manic reactions and pearl clutching whenever Farage opines.
    70% aren't voting Reform. 30% are. I think you don't understand what the word "most" means.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,095
    edited September 22

    I've just read the following:

    "[Reform] have (sic) recruited a bunch of failed and disgraced ex-Tory MPs – 17 so far."

    I had no idea so many had jumped ship.

    Being serious for a moment, the last time I saw this it was mainly ones who had not jumped ship yet.

    AFAICS we have:

    Lee Anderson
    Danny Kruger
    Maria Caulfield
    Adam Holloway
    Sir Jake Berry
    Dame Andrea Jenkyns
    Marco Longhi
    Ross Thompson
    David Jones

    This list is from an LBC article:
    https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/all-tory-conservative-mps-reform-5HjdD4Z_2/

    There's also Nadine Dorries, of course.
    (And Ann Widdecombe - thanks @Luckyguy1983. I expect the source of the "failed and disgraced" phrase may be anti-reform commentary somewhere.)
    And I'm sure I've seen at least one ex-MP somewhere who is now a RefUK Councillor.)

    Any more for any more?

    If it's just "ex-Conservatives" amongst their current MPs, then you can add Sarah Pochin, Richard Tice, and Farage himself - which gives a full house.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,815
    edited September 22
    Flag update: one of the local hand car washes has raised on either side of its gates an England flag and a British one. The employees, I have to say, are fairly typical in appearance for the type of business, so not sure what message they are sending.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,228
    edited September 22
    duplicate
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,635
    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52704-is-there-public-support-for-large-scale-removals-of-migrants

    Some polling from various points in the year on deportations and curbing immigration.

    In political terms, limited upside and potential downsides aplenty for Nige and Reform.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,446

    The other parties seem to be trying to pick holes in Reform's "kick them out" policy, rather than just saying that it is offensive and immoral.

    Reform has succeeded in moving the argument onto their turf.


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    2h
    Reform’s policy started with “deport people who are here illegally”. Fine. Then it was “deport people here legally who commit a serious crime”. Fine. Now it appears to be “deport people here legally”. Where’s this going to end up.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1970134234250596397
    He works for a paper that supports Farage and is now pearl clutching over this latest Reform policy . If he’s so disgusted with Farage then he should stop working for the DM .
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,671
    DavidL said:

    MattW said:

    Interesting numbers.

    Like Space Kadets, something has repulsors.

    I don't Lib Dems doing any more than Confidence and Supply, having had their fingers burnt last time.

    Do we have any verdicts on the Conference yet? Do we get a Glee King and Glee Queen?

    Ed Davey just finished an interview with Beth Rigby on Sky

    Problem is he is not top billing at present

    I really hope the UK voters reject Farage's ugly and divisive proposals

    I certainly will as will my good lady
    I am Spartacus. Never, ever will I vote for that scum.
    Thank you Angela.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,543
    moonshine said:

    The other parties seem to be trying to pick holes in Reform's "kick them out" policy, rather than just saying that it is offensive and immoral.

    Reform has succeeded in moving the argument onto their turf.


    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    2h
    Reform’s policy started with “deport people who are here illegally”. Fine. Then it was “deport people here legally who commit a serious crime”. Fine. Now it appears to be “deport people here legally”. Where’s this going to end up.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1970134234250596397
    It is a gradual shifting of the Overton window. It’s reasonable to ask where it ends. But there is silly hyperbole on here about what are quite moderate positions.

    Regularly requiring non citizens to justify their right to stay as a guest in a host country is not strange. I’ve had to go through such a process six times when overseas in various places. Thems the rules, I sucked them up and played by them.
    Fear is a powerful motivator. Lots of people will be fearful that the reasonable questions of where this might end might include them and their loved ones, particularly given the way some people are talking.

    The counterpoint to that is hate.

    Also: your last paragraph becomes somewhat irrelevant if rules are applied retrospectively.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,508
    SandraMc said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sean_F said:

    5th Charity disowns the Duchess of York

    I expect she will lose all of them

    Her message to Epstein was toe-curling.

    Which makes a change from toe sucking.
    Was the Duchess of York one of the offerings, at Epstein's parties?
    Careful: you don't want to get sued by a bunch of paedophiles for libel.
    I am not a fan of the Yorks but I have started reading "Entitled" and was surprised when the author claimed that although Sarah said she had 6 O levels, she had only 2 as 4 were D grade. Grades D and E were passes in O levels. In GCSEs D is a fail. I am surprised that in a book which claims to be thoroughly researched there was such a basic mistake.
    ,
    D and E were fails.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,782
    edited September 22
    Interesting. The unfriendliness to legal migrants there, as with other polls, seems to stick at around the 40% mark.

    I think about 50 or 60% of this group will also.be meaning British-born minorities, so that's maybe about 25% of the population at large.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781
    MattW said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    RobD said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    https://x.com/lfg_uk/status/1970059386534977751

    Who are these guys?

    The Natural England thing is afaics BS, unless eg you would be disturbing protected birds, nesting.

    It's a weird thing with which to lead.
    In this article it states that Natural England were the ones who objected to the application: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd18my2e31qo
    Indeed. But that's not the narrative. it's an event that draws 5000 people that was being held on an SSSI which is an important nature site .

    The tweet, and the video attached to the tweet, frames it as 'Natural England banning you from having a day out flying kites across the country', where NE are actually considering the impact on an SSSI Common.

    There's a decent paywalled article in the NS (which is archived):
    https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk-politics/2025/04/lawrence-newport-interview-its-more-than-system-failure-its-people-failure

    And Tom Harwood has picked it up:
    https://x.com/tomhfh/status/1970066713367740863

    They also claim to have been at the forefront of Ban Bully XL dogs.
    https://lookingforgrowth.uk/campaigns/

    My perspective is that imo the answer to unthinking, populist politics is not just more unthinking, populist politics.
    The tweet frames it as Natural England banning you from having a day out flying kites at this specific location. There's even a map showing where the event was going to be (and was previously) held. It doesn't say anything about banning kite flying nationwide.
    I disagree. The Looking for Growth tweet is not location specific. And the first phrase in the video is "Why are we banned from having fun in Britain?". The text of the tweet:

    Looking for Growth @lfg_uk
    You wanted a nice day out flying kites with your family. But
    @NaturalEngland won't let you.

    Natural England won't let us build, won't let us have fun. It won't let us do anything.

    The Government empowers them to block everything. This has to end.

    The tweet also includes a video, accompanying said text. If you watch the video, it is clear they are referring to a specific case.
    A lot of people locally were pi**ed off that this lovely festival, which ran for over 30 years with no reported issues, was cancelled by Natural England on spurious grounds. Lots of money no longer being raised for charity.

    (Though I can think of at least one who won't be happy that the case is being used for political purposes...)
    But it hasn't even been cancelled by Natural England. They objected to a planning application, and the Council opted to refuse PP - unless it works differently to every planning application I have seen.

    I think that the issue has been under discussion for the best part of 5 years.

    That's my main objection - we are getting false narratives.

    Even the campaign by "Looking for Growth" starts "DO NOT LET NATURAL ENGLAND RUIN BRITAIN'S COMMUNITIES", which is not what is being done.

    https://lookingforgrowth.uk/campaigns/defend-fun/

    Sorry but @MattW, do you have anything to support your claim that planning permission can be allowed by a local council in defiance of Natural England? They also tried to avoid responsibility for the bat tunnel, as if this was just some whim of the HS2 management team.

    AI tells me this:

    British councils are not permitted to grant planning permission if doing so would be contrary to the requirements of the Habitats Directive and the Conservation of Habitats and Species Regulations 2010, particularly when European Protected Species (EPS) are involved. Natural England, as the competent authority for licensing under these regulations, must be satisfied that three statutory tests are met before a licence can be granted for activities that might otherwise be unlawful, including development affecting EPS.
    These tests require that there are imperative reasons of overriding public interest, no satisfactory alternative exists, and the action will not be detrimental to the maintenance of the species' population at a favourable conservation status.

    Ai

    That goes straight back to Natural England being fully responsible, AND the ultimate culprit being their enforcement of European Union retained law.

    Get rid of Natural England, get rid of the retained EU law. Say goodbye and please don't stay in touch to their Stalinist stranglehold on British life.
This discussion has been closed.