I can hear the 20 year old people upstairs having joyous and vigorous sex
I was about to type "Is there any more depressing sound in the world than listening to people four decades younger having great sex"
Then I realised, actually there is a more depressing sound, and I've heard it
About ten years ago I went through a dry spell, with the laydeez, and I went down to the Family Towers in Cornwall and at about 2pm I was alone in the kitchen - and I heard my Dad having eager sex upstairs. At that time he was about 79
Pretty sure hearing a parent* having sex at any time isn’t good.
*A fine distinction between the awfulness of the sound your parents at it and one or the other engaged with the succeeding bidie in.
Indeed. But the fact I was in a bit of a Love Drought made it far worse, plus Dad was 79
I went down to Cornwall for some familial solace, and ended up in existential despair. At 2pm. Staring at my mug of mediocre coffee
WTF were you - I can think of 3 decent coffee shops in Falmouth high street.. Literally pick any independent coffee shop on a high street and it will be better than Costa / Cafe Nero (Starbucks not included because even Costa is better than Starbucks coffee)
Actually I think she puts it quite succinctly and readably, though a video would of course have worked better. I'm not sure I agree with her 100%, but it isn't terrible as text.
Would a video be better? I don't want to spend time watching a video, I want to read a written argument. Easier to skip the guff, and re-read bits you didn't understand. Don't want it to take 5 minutes out of my life.
But I believe this is an age-related thing, young people do indeed want to watch a video rather than read something
I learned the other day that today's young people are appalled at the idea of using the phone. Calling to make an appointment? What? They'd rather go in to the place & make it face-to-face., apparently, although the ideal method is to use text messages.
Is this feeding into youth mental health issues? The lack of personal interaction is becoming a real problem.
I was asked by a friend to go into their company and do a deep dive on various things, one thing she said was that they have a problem with the younger - as it turned out the people in early 30s and below - where they wouldn’t make phone calls to clients and would stick to emails.
I assumed this was a bit of hyperbole but it really wasn’t. They would do anything not to take a call, make a call, go for lunch with the client/drinks/even coffee. There was so much resistance to getting out there in person to engage on a human basis with their clients which, in their industry was bonkers as they needed strong client relationships to keep the relationships and therefore the money flowing.
There was a weird inability to socialise over drinks and meals, as much of an arse I am it wasn’t just because of me with them, they couldn’t have broad conversations and visibly recoiled over conversations and ribald humour that didn’t fit with their worldview - however uptight you might be in certain industries the money is with people who you might not be in step with and sometimes you have to suck it up. Obviously this is only an anecdote but I can’t believe I’m the only person who has experienced this behaviour.
I've noticed that amongst the younger team members I have that random ad-hoc phone calls or chat are looked on as 'a bit weird'. Arranged ones, less so. Everyone just assumes asynchronous texts or platform-of-your-choice messages are the way things are done.
I think I sort of get it as a child growing up at the cusp of answering machines. I do find myself more frequently annoyed by phone calls who want my attention Right Now about something that could have been dealt with when I had some time later in the day.
I completely get that. Phone calls are nearly all to mobiles now, even my elderly folks having given up on land-lines. The presumption of a caller is that they have a right to interrupt whatever you are up to at the time. Emails, texts, WhatsApp etc can wait for a reply to whenever is convenient. It's more polite to text etc.
I never answer my phone at work. This is because every phone call I get is someone trying to sell me something. I don't like to be rude to people but I don't want to listen to their sales patter either so the simplest thing is simply to ignore it. To be honest I hate talking on the phone anyway. Since I'm almost 50 I guess I must have been an early adopter of this tendency.
Yes, I'm about your age and also not a fan of phone conversations. I tend to take the view that if it's important they'll leave a message. (My landline number in fact can only go to voice message at the moment: it's a voip setup and it's broken and I've been procrastinating on the network admin I need to do to fix it...)
You still have a landline?
Let's face it, life was better when most people used landlines instead of mobiles.
AKA life was better when we were young.
No shit.
I dont think it is Dadlore, as Andy is one of the youngsters here.
Life was a lot freer before every stupid thing you ever said or did lived for all time on Social Media.
Just saw the riff that got Jimmy Kimmell sacked. They were right to sack him
Nonsensically irresponsible
Technically they haven't sacked him and mutterings about trying to find a way to get him back on the air. But, Bob Iger gave him out an out, to apologise for the any offense caused, but he told them to go f##k themselves and was preparing a monologue that was even "hotter".
technically he hasn't said anything that isn't true.
My position is he did or at the very least he certainly gave a false impression. Its appears Disney, the advertisers and local affiliates also think so too. He could have done the classic political apology, sorry for any offense caused at this time of heightened tension, now here is Trump being a twat.....
what part do you dispute?
We did this the other day for hours, I am not really interested in going back over the arguments or my position. But this is the problematic part,
"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them"
I showed the data the other day that Mormons in general aren't big MAGA fans. Overall, it seems a confusing picture of this guys background and motivations and so would be wise to give it a wide berth and not speculate
For the record my position was, I think this was unwise statement, the rest about Trump was fine, the decent thing to do would be an brief apology and everybody should move on. No burn the witch / cancel him forever nonsense.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
Ironically Burns day job was working as a revenue man.
People need to pay attention to what is going on with Trump and DOJ — the President of the United States is demanding his attorney general prosecute enemies solely because he says they are “guilty.” https://x.com/GlennThrush/status/1969598181190103323
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
Might it have been whoor meister/master? Heard it used occasionally in a semi-admiring manner in my home town of Aberdeen.
Actually I think she puts it quite succinctly and readably, though a video would of course have worked better. I'm not sure I agree with her 100%, but it isn't terrible as text.
Would a video be better? I don't want to spend time watching a video, I want to read a written argument. Easier to skip the guff, and re-read bits you didn't understand. Don't want it to take 5 minutes out of my life.
But I believe this is an age-related thing, young people do indeed want to watch a video rather than read something
I learned the other day that today's young people are appalled at the idea of using the phone. Calling to make an appointment? What? They'd rather go in to the place & make it face-to-face., apparently, although the ideal method is to use text messages.
Is this feeding into youth mental health issues? The lack of personal interaction is becoming a real problem.
I was asked by a friend to go into their company and do a deep dive on various things, one thing she said was that they have a problem with the younger - as it turned out the people in early 30s and below - where they wouldn’t make phone calls to clients and would stick to emails.
I assumed this was a bit of hyperbole but it really wasn’t. They would do anything not to take a call, make a call, go for lunch with the client/drinks/even coffee. There was so much resistance to getting out there in person to engage on a human basis with their clients which, in their industry was bonkers as they needed strong client relationships to keep the relationships and therefore the money flowing.
There was a weird inability to socialise over drinks and meals, as much of an arse I am it wasn’t just because of me with them, they couldn’t have broad conversations and visibly recoiled over conversations and ribald humour that didn’t fit with their worldview - however uptight you might be in certain industries the money is with people who you might not be in step with and sometimes you have to suck it up. Obviously this is only an anecdote but I can’t believe I’m the only person who has experienced this behaviour.
I've noticed that amongst the younger team members I have that random ad-hoc phone calls or chat are looked on as 'a bit weird'. Arranged ones, less so. Everyone just assumes asynchronous texts or platform-of-your-choice messages are the way things are done.
I think I sort of get it as a child growing up at the cusp of answering machines. I do find myself more frequently annoyed by phone calls who want my attention Right Now about something that could have been dealt with when I had some time later in the day.
I completely get that. Phone calls are nearly all to mobiles now, even my elderly folks having given up on land-lines. The presumption of a caller is that they have a right to interrupt whatever you are up to at the time. Emails, texts, WhatsApp etc can wait for a reply to whenever is convenient. It's more polite to text etc.
I never answer my phone at work. This is because every phone call I get is someone trying to sell me something. I don't like to be rude to people but I don't want to listen to their sales patter either so the simplest thing is simply to ignore it. To be honest I hate talking on the phone anyway. Since I'm almost 50 I guess I must have been an early adopter of this tendency.
Yes, I'm about your age and also not a fan of phone conversations. I tend to take the view that if it's important they'll leave a message. (My landline number in fact can only go to voice message at the moment: it's a voip setup and it's broken and I've been procrastinating on the network admin I need to do to fix it...)
You still have a landline?
Let's face it, life was better when most people used landlines instead of mobiles.
AKA life was better when we were young.
No shit.
I dont think it is Dadlore, as Andy is one of the youngsters here.
Life was a lot freer before every stupid thing you ever said or did lived for all time on Social Media.
I remember maybe back in 2005? 2007? Hosting some 'young people'. And being acutely aware at how nervous they were getting that they hadn't checked their MySpace or Bebo messages for over an hour. Proper twitchy. At the time thinking this isn't going to end well.
But at the same time thinking of myself as growing up - in their terms - in an age of "I will meet you three years hence, in the full moon, yonder by the third Oak after the magic rock."
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
Leon had better learn how to spell Burns properly, though. It's done with an o not an a.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
Might it have been whoor meister/master? Heard it used occasionally in a semi-admiring manner in my home town of Aberdeen.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
From his poem Libel Summons:
Then, first, our fiscal by petition Informs us, there is strong suspicion That Coachman Dow, and Clocky Brown, Baith residenters in this town; In other words, you Jock and Sandy, Hae been at warks of Houghmagandy, And now when facts are come to light, The matter ye deny outright.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
Might it have been whoor meister/master? Heard it used occasionally in a semi-admiring manner in my home town of Aberdeen.
Definitely 'waster'. I'm originally from from the NE - but this was pure west of scotland.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
There is a peculiar and distinct genius in Scots English
I say this sincerely. This is not to provoke
It's a kind of flamboyance. All your words for a fight, "stooshy", "rammy", "stramash", etc, they are all vivid and poetic. Maybe it's the Gaelic inheritance fiercely mixed with the Norse, but whatever it is, English is better for it, just as - I believe - England and Scotland are bigger than the sum of their parts. I accept you will disagree, and perhaps want a small stramash
I yield to your mollifying tone. However not to be too stramashy, I truly feel that sum of parts could be achieved without us being governed by the people you elect.
Actually I think she puts it quite succinctly and readably, though a video would of course have worked better. I'm not sure I agree with her 100%, but it isn't terrible as text.
Would a video be better? I don't want to spend time watching a video, I want to read a written argument. Easier to skip the guff, and re-read bits you didn't understand. Don't want it to take 5 minutes out of my life.
But I believe this is an age-related thing, young people do indeed want to watch a video rather than read something
I learned the other day that today's young people are appalled at the idea of using the phone. Calling to make an appointment? What? They'd rather go in to the place & make it face-to-face., apparently, although the ideal method is to use text messages.
Is this feeding into youth mental health issues? The lack of personal interaction is becoming a real problem.
I was asked by a friend to go into their company and do a deep dive on various things, one thing she said was that they have a problem with the younger - as it turned out the people in early 30s and below - where they wouldn’t make phone calls to clients and would stick to emails.
I assumed this was a bit of hyperbole but it really wasn’t. They would do anything not to take a call, make a call, go for lunch with the client/drinks/even coffee. There was so much resistance to getting out there in person to engage on a human basis with their clients which, in their industry was bonkers as they needed strong client relationships to keep the relationships and therefore the money flowing.
There was a weird inability to socialise over drinks and meals, as much of an arse I am it wasn’t just because of me with them, they couldn’t have broad conversations and visibly recoiled over conversations and ribald humour that didn’t fit with their worldview - however uptight you might be in certain industries the money is with people who you might not be in step with and sometimes you have to suck it up. Obviously this is only an anecdote but I can’t believe I’m the only person who has experienced this behaviour.
I've noticed that amongst the younger team members I have that random ad-hoc phone calls or chat are looked on as 'a bit weird'. Arranged ones, less so. Everyone just assumes asynchronous texts or platform-of-your-choice messages are the way things are done.
I think I sort of get it as a child growing up at the cusp of answering machines. I do find myself more frequently annoyed by phone calls who want my attention Right Now about something that could have been dealt with when I had some time later in the day.
I completely get that. Phone calls are nearly all to mobiles now, even my elderly folks having given up on land-lines. The presumption of a caller is that they have a right to interrupt whatever you are up to at the time. Emails, texts, WhatsApp etc can wait for a reply to whenever is convenient. It's more polite to text etc.
I never answer my phone at work. This is because every phone call I get is someone trying to sell me something. I don't like to be rude to people but I don't want to listen to their sales patter either so the simplest thing is simply to ignore it. To be honest I hate talking on the phone anyway. Since I'm almost 50 I guess I must have been an early adopter of this tendency.
Yes, I'm about your age and also not a fan of phone conversations. I tend to take the view that if it's important they'll leave a message. (My landline number in fact can only go to voice message at the moment: it's a voip setup and it's broken and I've been procrastinating on the network admin I need to do to fix it...)
You still have a landline?
Let's face it, life was better when most people used landlines instead of mobiles.
AKA life was better when we were young.
No shit.
I dont think it is Dadlore, as Andy is one of the youngsters here.
Life was a lot freer before every stupid thing you ever said or did lived for all time on Social Media.
Just saw the riff that got Jimmy Kimmell sacked. They were right to sack him
Nonsensically irresponsible
Technically they haven't sacked him and mutterings about trying to find a way to get him back on the air. But, Bob Iger gave him out an out, to apologise for the any offense caused, but he told them to go f##k themselves and was preparing a monologue that was even "hotter".
technically he hasn't said anything that isn't true.
My position is he did or at the very least he certainly gave a false impression. Its appears Disney, the advertisers and local affiliates also think so too. He could have done the classic political apology, sorry for any offense caused at this time of heightened tension, now here is Trump being a twat.....
what part do you dispute?
We did this the other day for hours, I am not really interested in going back over the arguments or my position. But this is the problematic part,
"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them"
I showed the data the other day that Mormons in general aren't big MAGA fans. Overall, it seems a confusing picture of this guys background and motivations and so would be wise to give it a wide berth and not speculate
For the record my position was, I think this was unwise statement, the rest about Trump was fine, the decent thing to do would be an brief apology and everybody should move on. No burn the witch / cancel him forever nonsense.
nah ignore the mormon stuff, noone outside utah knows what the fuck that is. Keep it simple stupid.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
'Waster'? Was he inplying that Burns wasn't making good enough use of the splendid whores on offet?
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
Leon had better learn how to spell Burns properly, though. It's done with an o not an a.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
'Waster'? Was he inplying that Burns wasn't making good enough use of the splendid whores on offet?
I always assumed (hoped?) that he meant he'd wasted his chances with any women who loved him. In an angry misogynistic taxi driver way - it was almost a tragic romantic thought.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
Might it have been whoor meister/master? Heard it used occasionally in a semi-admiring manner in my home town of Aberdeen.
Definitely 'waster'. I'm originally from from the NE - but this was pure west of scotland.
Oh in that case I accept that. Many would certainly say that Rabbie was a fine example of sexual wasterfuness.
There's a fascinating book and papers by Christopher Whatley about the very mixed opinions of RB that came to light in later campaigns to build statchoos etc. to his memory. The Kirk sessions, in particular ...
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
There is a peculiar and distinct genius in Scots English
I say this sincerely. This is not to provoke
It's a kind of flamboyance. All your words for a fight, "stooshy", "rammy", "stramash", etc, they are all vivid and poetic. Maybe it's the Gaelic inheritance fiercely mixed with the Norse, but whatever it is, English is better for it, just as - I believe - England and Scotland are bigger than the sum of their parts. I accept you will disagree, and perhaps want a small stramash
Many of Scotland's place names have a particular guttural aggressive brilliance. Achtermuchty. Kirkudbright. Brora And my personal favourite: Haugh of Urr.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
I used to get driven to work in a taxi (thanks tax-payers! your contribution to my idiot managers ill-fated regional office reorganisation plans were appreciated!) who always referred to Burns dismissively as "that whore-waster". Though in a proper guttural that sounded more like 'hoer-wiester'. Which sounded, ironically, all the more Burns-like.
'Waster'? Was he inplying that Burns wasn't making good enough use of the splendid whores on offet?
No, just general idle drunken ne'erdowellness. Wasting his life on earth in dissipation instead of good hard Calvinist work ethic.
OMFG I am now going to say "haughmagandy" in every single email, text, voice message and "serious article in the Gazette about repurposing retail premises"
My work is done here.
I’m prepared to be proved wrong but I think well known Scotch shagger Robert Burns used it.
It would, I think, be very hard to prove you wrong on this. The only approach I can think of would be some sort of seance, and even them I wouldn't fully trust the witness. I suspect you might be met with "you disturb my eternal rest for a lexicographal dispute on a betting site?" Only more poetic. And more Scottish.
Off all topics, is there a more satisfying single thing than a freshly dropped conker?
I saw a sixty-something couple collecting conkers earlier. I stopped to chat and she claimed they keep away spiders.
She seemed non-plussed when I said I like spiders*.
Who is the weirdo here?
* last year I had a spider colony in my car, with cobwebs around mirror and windscreen. I had loaded the car one night with shrub cuttings for the tip, and they colonised it. Passengers would occasionally be surprised by spiders dropping down while driving.
At least you now know not to collect conkers.
I wasn't, much as I think them an item of beauty. I think it a folk belief without grounding in reality.
I recall if you had a 23er and beat a 25er it'd become a 48er. They were the rules.
That's how it was round my way. I found it quite unsatisfactory and thought it bigged up the conkers unnecesarily. This was probably a clue to my tastes and tempers as an adult.
A conker fell on my windscreen while driving the other day. "Thing of beauty" was not the first thing in my mind. But in general I agree with MM's point.
Bear in mind that the United States has in the last nine months built an anonymous armed snatch squad that takes hundreds or thousands of Americans of the street and transports them to undisclosed prisons in the US or abroad without legal assistance and holds them there indefinitely. Are you still sure we live in a good world, because I'm not.
This Farage policy might not get a lot of airing now and he might try and do a bit of a roll back nearer the election, but I bet it get brought up a hell of a lot. Its one thing to say we should cut immigration and up the requirements for visas, but advocating deporting people with settled status, I think that could be very difficult for Farage to try and argue away.
I think this is the line he crosses where he loses a lot of Brits.
I would like to think that was the case but I am not longer convinced it is. I am sure it would lose him some support but I don"t think it will be enough.
A project the European defence initiative should be funding. (And if not, our government should just tell RR to do it, and they'll buy the first 10k units off the production line.)
..Even more problematic, European industry does not have an indigenous mini turbofan to offer.
While European engine makers, including Safran, MTU, and Rolls-Royce, build or contribute to turbofan engines for aircraft, none have gone through the process of miniaturization.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
Bear in mind that the United States has in the last nine months built an anonymous armed snatch squad that takes hundreds or thousands of Americans of the street and transports them to undisclosed prisons in the US or abroad without legal assistance and holds them there indefinitely. Are you still sure we live in a good world, because I'm not.
It is what is happening in the US that should be a sober lesson to the great British public to resist anything similar coming here led by Farage and Reform
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Just saw the riff that got Jimmy Kimmell sacked. They were right to sack him
Nonsensically irresponsible
Technically they haven't sacked him and mutterings about trying to find a way to get him back on the air. But, Bob Iger gave him out an out, to apologise for the any offense caused, but he told them to go f##k themselves and was preparing a monologue that was even "hotter".
technically he hasn't said anything that isn't true.
My position is he did or at the very least he certainly gave a false impression. Its appears Disney, the advertisers and local affiliates also think so too. He could have done the classic political apology, sorry for any offense caused at this time of heightened tension, now here is Trump being a twat.....
what part do you dispute?
We did this the other day for hours, I am not really interested in going back over the arguments or my position. But this is the problematic part,
"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them"
I showed the data the other day that Mormons in general aren't big MAGA fans. Overall, it seems a confusing picture of this guys background and motivations and so would be wise to give it a wide berth and not speculate
For the record my position was, I think this was unwise statement, the rest about Trump was fine, the decent thing to do would be an brief apology and everybody should move on. No burn the witch / cancel him forever nonsense.
"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them"
I'm not quite sure what Kimmer meant by this. Clearly he wasnt a MAGA politically.
However he was from a conservative, white, middle-class, God-fearing (if heretical), gun-loving family, so "one of them" in that sense.
In any case, the US has no "balance" rules for broadcast media and believes in freedom of speech, so that should be par for the course.
I think what he did "wrong" was accuse Trump & Co of milking Kirk's death for all it is worth, which they have clearly been doing.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Formula 1 is a strength too. Sports cars should be more widely.
Not sure why we've shat the bed with electric cars recently.
The fundamental problem was that the UK's electric car ambitions were centered on the Jaguar iPace, and it simply wasn't good enough. It should have been the electric Porsche Macan killer in 2019.
Unfortunately, the trim in it felt very cheap for what was supposed to be a premium vehicle. The in car entertainment system was slow and laggy. And it wasn't fun to drive.
I wanted to buy one. But after test driving it, I just couldn't.
Cry for the past. In the early 2000s the producers of the crap remake of the Italian Job converted some new Minis to full electric - for safety when driving in tunnels.
They offered the manufacturers to take a look (actually one of the firms doing the conversion did) - but they said no. Not interested.
A project the European defence initiative should be funding. (And if not, our government should just tell RR to do it, and they'll buy the first 10k units off the production line.)
..Even more problematic, European industry does not have an indigenous mini turbofan to offer.
While European engine makers, including Safran, MTU, and Rolls-Royce, build or contribute to turbofan engines for aircraft, none have gone through the process of miniaturization.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
Evening all. Its the sort of rhetoric which will start to turn away the Centre Right grey vote in droves. Most of them didnt sign up for rounding up settled immigrants. The country is losing its damn mind
Just saw the riff that got Jimmy Kimmell sacked. They were right to sack him
Nonsensically irresponsible
Technically they haven't sacked him and mutterings about trying to find a way to get him back on the air. But, Bob Iger gave him out an out, to apologise for the any offense caused, but he told them to go f##k themselves and was preparing a monologue that was even "hotter".
technically he hasn't said anything that isn't true.
My position is he did or at the very least he certainly gave a false impression. Its appears Disney, the advertisers and local affiliates also think so too. He could have done the classic political apology, sorry for any offense caused at this time of heightened tension, now here is Trump being a twat.....
what part do you dispute?
We did this the other day for hours, I am not really interested in going back over the arguments or my position. But this is the problematic part,
"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them"
I showed the data the other day that Mormons in general aren't big MAGA fans. Overall, it seems a confusing picture of this guys background and motivations and so would be wise to give it a wide berth and not speculate
For the record my position was, I think this was unwise statement, the rest about Trump was fine, the decent thing to do would be an brief apology and everybody should move on. No burn the witch / cancel him forever nonsense.
"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them"
I'm not quite sure what Kimmer meant by this. Clearly he wasnt a MAGA politically.
However he was from a conservative, white, middle-class, God-fearing (if heretical), gun-loving family, so "one of them" in that sense.
In any case, the US has no "balance" rules for broadcast media and believes in freedom of speech, so that should be par for the course.
I think what he did "wrong" was accuse Trump & Co of milking Kirk's death for all it is worth, which they have clearly been doing.
If we are dealing in sterotypes / generalizations, Mormons are quite different from the stereotype of the white Christian toothless wonder MAGA cultists, and why Trump doesn't poll very well with them. They vote Republican despite Trump. So not really, no.
A project the European defence initiative should be funding. (And if not, our government should just tell RR to do it, and they'll buy the first 10k units off the production line.)
..Even more problematic, European industry does not have an indigenous mini turbofan to offer.
While European engine makers, including Safran, MTU, and Rolls-Royce, build or contribute to turbofan engines for aircraft, none have gone through the process of miniaturization.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
Evening all. Its the sort of rhetoric which will start to turn away the Centre Right grey vote in droves. Most of them didnt sign up for rounding up settled immigrants. The country is losing its damn mind
Nonsense, it's just not renewing visas worded poorly. Anyone who came on an unskilled worker visa should not have it renewed and they should be told to return to their home country. Everyone who came on a skilled worker visa should now have to meet the new higher income threshold or face visa revocation and return to their home country. Three million migrants and dependents are in the pipeline for citizenship, if they get it there's a lifetime of welfare the rest of us need to pay for because they will never make enough contributions over their working lives to make the numbers work. There's £300bn or so of welfare liability we're inviting unnecessarily, we don't have to give them citizenship, they can be asked to return to their home countries.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
I am not voting Reform under any circumstances and and can't read the DTel article but I don't trust their agenda at all. But I think it is impossible even now to win an election on a platform of forced removal of people who are lawfully in the UK. Obviously lots of people are here with only a limited leave to remain; that's different. The same is true, post Brexit, of my right to visit France.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
It will be interesting who if anybody on this forum supports this divisive and hateful policy
Reform's achilles heel is as a group at the top they can't stop themselves drinking the American alt-right Trump 2.0 kool aid and thinking we can do that in the UK.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
It will be interesting who if anybody on this forum supports this divisive and hateful policy
Reform's achilles heel is as a group at the top they can't stop themselves drinking the American alt-right Trump 2.0 kool aid and thinking we can do that in the UK.
I wonder how much the United the Kingdom rally has also given them oversized confidence that they can push it much further.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
Evening all. Its the sort of rhetoric which will start to turn away the Centre Right grey vote in droves. Most of them didnt sign up for rounding up settled immigrants. The country is losing its damn mind
Nonsense, it's just not renewing visas worded poorly. Anyone who came on an unskilled worker visa should not have it renewed and they should be told to return to their home country. Everyone who came on a skilled worker visa should now have to meet the new higher income threshold or face visa revocation and return to their home country. Three million migrants and dependents are in the pipeline for citizenship, if they get it there's a lifetime of welfare the rest of us need to pay for because they will never make enough contributions over their working lives to make the numbers work. There's £300bn or so of welfare liability we're inviting unnecessarily, we don't have to give them citizenship, they can be asked to return to their home countries.
I am surprised you endorse this policy which is utterly shocking and will strike fear into so many
I hope our country comprehensively rejects this hateful policy in the millions of fair minded Brits
A project the European defence initiative should be funding. (And if not, our government should just tell RR to do it, and they'll buy the first 10k units off the production line.)
..Even more problematic, European industry does not have an indigenous mini turbofan to offer.
While European engine makers, including Safran, MTU, and Rolls-Royce, build or contribute to turbofan engines for aircraft, none have gone through the process of miniaturization.
Miniature turbofans are not a sexy product. They are almost too easy - you can buy them online.
Smallest jet plane (I think) is Poland's Flaris LAR 1
We are talking about engines you could put in a backpack or a hold-all. There are some you can buy and assemble yourself in kit form. Used in large model aircraft for example.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
Evening all. Its the sort of rhetoric which will start to turn away the Centre Right grey vote in droves. Most of them didnt sign up for rounding up settled immigrants. The country is losing its damn mind
Nonsense, it's just not renewing visas worded poorly. Anyone who came on an unskilled worker visa should not have it renewed and they should be told to return to their home country. Everyone who came on a skilled worker visa should now have to meet the new higher income threshold or face visa revocation and return to their home country. Three million migrants and dependents are in the pipeline for citizenship, if they get it there's a lifetime of welfare the rest of us need to pay for because they will never make enough contributions over their working lives to make the numbers work. There's £300bn or so of welfare liability we're inviting unnecessarily, we don't have to give them citizenship, they can be asked to return to their home countries.
Its Windrush on steroids and it will sink the Reform project if taken forward as policy
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
Evening all. Its the sort of rhetoric which will start to turn away the Centre Right grey vote in droves. Most of them didnt sign up for rounding up settled immigrants. The country is losing its damn mind
Nonsense, it's just not renewing visas worded poorly. Anyone who came on an unskilled worker visa should not have it renewed and they should be told to return to their home country. Everyone who came on a skilled worker visa should now have to meet the new higher income threshold or face visa revocation and return to their home country. Three million migrants and dependents are in the pipeline for citizenship, if they get it there's a lifetime of welfare the rest of us need to pay for because they will never make enough contributions over their working lives to make the numbers work. There's £300bn or so of welfare liability we're inviting unnecessarily, we don't have to give them citizenship, they can be asked to return to their home countries.
I am surprised you endorse this policy which is utterly shocking and will strike fear into so many
I hope our country comprehensively rejects this hateful policy in the millions of fair minded Brits
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
Evening all. Its the sort of rhetoric which will start to turn away the Centre Right grey vote in droves. Most of them didnt sign up for rounding up settled immigrants. The country is losing its damn mind
Nonsense, it's just not renewing visas worded poorly. Anyone who came on an unskilled worker visa should not have it renewed and they should be told to return to their home country. Everyone who came on a skilled worker visa should now have to meet the new higher income threshold or face visa revocation and return to their home country. Three million migrants and dependents are in the pipeline for citizenship, if they get it there's a lifetime of welfare the rest of us need to pay for because they will never make enough contributions over their working lives to make the numbers work. There's £300bn or so of welfare liability we're inviting unnecessarily, we don't have to give them citizenship, they can be asked to return to their home countries.
Which part of forcing “…all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas…” involves “not renewing visas”? It means anyone who’s got Indefinite Leave to Remain (including many on marriage visas) having that status revoked. That’s what the words mean. You can’t rearrange them to mean anything else.
It’s inhumane and it does indeed appear that people on here support it.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
Evening all. Its the sort of rhetoric which will start to turn away the Centre Right grey vote in droves. Most of them didnt sign up for rounding up settled immigrants. The country is losing its damn mind
Nonsense, it's just not renewing visas worded poorly. Anyone who came on an unskilled worker visa should not have it renewed and they should be told to return to their home country. Everyone who came on a skilled worker visa should now have to meet the new higher income threshold or face visa revocation and return to their home country. Three million migrants and dependents are in the pipeline for citizenship, if they get it there's a lifetime of welfare the rest of us need to pay for because they will never make enough contributions over their working lives to make the numbers work. There's £300bn or so of welfare liability we're inviting unnecessarily, we don't have to give them citizenship, they can be asked to return to their home countries.
I am surprised you endorse this policy which is utterly shocking and will strike fear into so many
I hope our country comprehensively rejects this hateful policy in the millions of fair minded Brits
It's not hateful, it's about fairness.
Retrospective rule changes - explicitly called for in that article - aren't fair.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
A project the European defence initiative should be funding. (And if not, our government should just tell RR to do it, and they'll buy the first 10k units off the production line.)
..Even more problematic, European industry does not have an indigenous mini turbofan to offer.
While European engine makers, including Safran, MTU, and Rolls-Royce, build or contribute to turbofan engines for aircraft, none have gone through the process of miniaturization.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
Evening all. Its the sort of rhetoric which will start to turn away the Centre Right grey vote in droves. Most of them didnt sign up for rounding up settled immigrants. The country is losing its damn mind
Nonsense, it's just not renewing visas worded poorly. Anyone who came on an unskilled worker visa should not have it renewed and they should be told to return to their home country. Everyone who came on a skilled worker visa should now have to meet the new higher income threshold or face visa revocation and return to their home country. Three million migrants and dependents are in the pipeline for citizenship, if they get it there's a lifetime of welfare the rest of us need to pay for because they will never make enough contributions over their working lives to make the numbers work. There's £300bn or so of welfare liability we're inviting unnecessarily, we don't have to give them citizenship, they can be asked to return to their home countries.
I am surprised you endorse this policy which is utterly shocking and will strike fear into so many
I hope our country comprehensively rejects this hateful policy in the millions of fair minded Brits
It's not hateful, it's about fairness.
No - it is hateful and is absolutely not about fairness
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
Web searching tells me there is no such thing as 'permanent residency' in the UK, there is 'indefinite leave to remain' and then British citizenship. Since I don't think they plan to deport those with British citizenship (they could be but I think the Telegraph would have said so as it's a far juicier headline), this is effectively changing the rules around indefinite leave to remain and introducing tougher criteria to stay.
There's a big, big issue coming down the line when all these Boriswavers become eligible for indefinite leave to remain, and therefore state benefits. Kemi had already flagged that up - she wants to delay the granting of ilr. I suppose this is Reform's plan for dealing with that.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
Edit. I don't subscribe to the Telegraph but this article appears to be free to read?
Are they seriously going to suggest this for people with Indefinite Leave to Remain/Settled Status. This is entirely bonkers involving millions of absolutely ordinary people who have made their home, lawfully, here for years.
I wonder why Farage has thought going this far was necessary? He could have just said tougher on immigration, higher requirements for new visas, tough on illegal working and removal of illegals. That gets him all the votes he will get from the tough on immigration crowd. Going all AFD seems like only has downsides.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
Edit. I don't subscribe to the Telegraph but this article appears to be free to read?
Are they seriously going to suggest this for people with Indefinite Leave to Remain/Settled Status. This is entirely bonkers involving millions of absolutely ordinary people who have made their home, lawfully, here for years.
This Farage policy might not get a lot of airing now and he might try and do a bit of a roll back nearer the election, but I bet it get brought up a hell of a lot. Its one thing to say we should cut immigration and up the requirements for visas, but advocating deporting people with settled status, I think that could be very difficult for Farage to try and argue away.
The problems of the country are not caused by immigrants. But that's the message of the radical right. So they have to keep upping the ante, keep expanding who they'll get rid of, keep increasing the dose of a medicine that never works.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
Web searching tells me there is no such thing as 'permanent residency' in the UK, there is 'indefinite leave to remain' and then British citizenship. Since I don't think they plan to deport those with British citizenship (they could be but I think the Telegraph would have said so as it's a far juicier headline), this is effectively changing the rules around indefinite leave to remain and introducing tougher criteria to stay.
There's a big, big issue coming down the line when all these Boriswavers become eligible for indefinite leave to remain, and therefore state benefits. Kemi had already flagged that up - she wants to delay the granting of ilr. I suppose this is Reform's plan for dealing with that.
The Reform policy will also breach the EU UK trade deal and destroy relations . As for businesses this will be a disaster . I’m also speechless that this policy has been put forward .
I wonder why Farage has thought going this far was necessary? He could have just said tougher on immigration, higher requirements for new visas, tough on illegal working and removal of illegals. That gets him all the votes he will get from the tough on immigration crowd.
Most normal people tempted by the uselessness of the parties to vote Reform will draw a clear line between limiting inward movement and removing those who are here without legal permission and those with time limited visas - like students - on the one hand, and OTOH those who are here lawfully and have been granted settled status/ILR. This includes milions of post-Brexit arrangements. WRT that group I would break the habit of a lifetime and go on a demonstation.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
Edit. I don't subscribe to the Telegraph but this article appears to be free to read?
Are they seriously going to suggest this for people with Indefinite Leave to Remain/Settled Status. This is entirely bonkers involving millions of absolutely ordinary people who have made their home, lawfully, here for years.
Would mean that I couldn’t return to the UK with my wife unless she had a job to go to.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
Web searching tells me there is no such thing as 'permanent residency' in the UK, there is 'indefinite leave to remain' and then British citizenship. Since I don't think they plan to deport those with British citizenship (they could be but I think the Telegraph would have said so as it's a far juicier headline), this is effectively changing the rules around indefinite leave to remain and introducing tougher criteria to stay.
There's a big, big issue coming down the line when all these Boriswavers become eligible for indefinite leave to remain, and therefore state benefits. Kemi had already flagged that up - she wants to delay the granting of ilr. I suppose this is Reform's plan for dealing with that.
Except that this explicitly targets all those currently with indefinite leave to remain, however long they have been here. So someone who was told in the, say, Nineties they can remain indefinitely we will be saying “fuck off” to.
Thousands of people here on spousal visas for example, some of whom can’t apply for naturalisation because their country of origin won’t allow it (eg Germany for countries outside the EU, India for everywhere), they don’t want to, or can’t afford it , will have to leave their families and leave the country.
This Farage policy might not get a lot of airing now and he might try and do a bit of a roll back nearer the election, but I bet it get brought up a hell of a lot. Its one thing to say we should cut immigration and up the requirements for visas, but advocating deporting people with settled status, I think that could be very difficult for Farage to try and argue away.
The problems of the country are not caused by immigrants. But that's the message of the radical right. So they have to keep upping the ante, keep expanding who they'll get rid of, keep increasing the dose of a medicine that never works.
lol. We haven’t even taken a micro millilitre of medicine
I wonder why Farage has thought going this far was necessary? He could have just said tougher on immigration, higher requirements for new visas, tough on illegal working and removal of illegals. That gets him all the votes he will get from the tough on immigration crowd.
Most normal people tempted by the uselessness of the parties to vote Reform will draw a clear line between limiting inward movement and removing those who are here without legal permission and those with time limited visas - like students - on the one hand, and OTOH those who are here lawfully and have been granted settled status/ILR. This includes milions of post-Brexit arrangements. WRT that group I would break the habit of a lifetime and go on a demonstation.
That's what I mean, politically, it seems a very dumb move (and unnecessary) from Reform if their goal is winning elections.
I wonder why Farage has thought going this far was necessary? He could have just said tougher on immigration, higher requirements for new visas, tough on illegal working and removal of illegals. That gets him all the votes he will get from the tough on immigration crowd. Going all AFD seems like only has downsides.
For the same reason that Kemi proposed this 10 year eligibility delay for ILR and state benefits:
It's a different policy to deal with the same thing - Boris's lot are about to become a massive massive national liability. Ignoring that isn't an option unless you're Keir Starmer. She had her policy, Reform have theirs - they're probably not that different in the detail.
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
Web searching tells me there is no such thing as 'permanent residency' in the UK, there is 'indefinite leave to remain' and then British citizenship. Since I don't think they plan to deport those with British citizenship (they could be but I think the Telegraph would have said so as it's a far juicier headline), this is effectively changing the rules around indefinite leave to remain and introducing tougher criteria to stay.
There's a big, big issue coming down the line when all these Boriswavers become eligible for indefinite leave to remain, and therefore state benefits. Kemi had already flagged that up - she wants to delay the granting of ilr. I suppose this is Reform's plan for dealing with that.
"Our solution to this problem is to abolish ILR completely. That means no new awards and those who currently hold it will have it rescinded. We will replace it with a five-year renewable work visa, with a vastly higher qualifying salary, much reduced ability to bring dependents and a much higher required standard of English. Crucially, this visa will give holders no access to welfare."
"Our solution to this problem is to abolish ILR completely. That means no new awards and those who currently hold it will have it rescinded. We will replace it with a five-year renewable work visa, with a vastly higher qualifying salary, much reduced ability to bring dependents and a much higher required standard of English. Crucially, this visa will give holders no access to welfare."
"Our solution to this problem is to abolish ILR completely. That means no new awards and those who currently hold it will have it rescinded. We will replace it with a five-year renewable work visa, with a vastly higher qualifying salary, much reduced ability to bring dependents and a much higher required standard of English. Crucially, this visa will give holders no access to welfare."
I've several Indian colleagues who live over here. Difficult to know what to say truthfully to them if they mentioned any of this. 'Get out while you still can'?
It must be resisted by anyone with a moral compass
I can't read the details because I am not a Telegraph subscriber, and nobody else seems to have the story yet.
Daily Telegraph - "Nigel Farage will pledge to eject hundreds of thousands of legal migrants in an unprecedented reversal of Britain’s relaxed border rules.
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
Edit. I don't subscribe to the Telegraph but this article appears to be free to read?
Are they seriously going to suggest this for people with Indefinite Leave to Remain/Settled Status. This is entirely bonkers involving millions of absolutely ordinary people who have made their home, lawfully, here for years.
Would mean that I couldn’t return to the UK with my wife unless she had a job to go to.
I am so angry that I would, for the first time, join protests against it but unfortunately my mobility has deteriorated so much recently I am having to have a hospital style mobility bed installed so it is not possible
It doesn't however stop me talking and online campaigning against it
Comments
Life was a lot freer before every stupid thing you ever said or did lived for all time on Social Media.
"We hit some new lows over the weekend with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them"
I showed the data the other day that Mormons in general aren't big MAGA fans. Overall, it seems a confusing picture of this guys background and motivations and so would be wise to give it a wide berth and not speculate
For the record my position was, I think this was unwise statement, the rest about Trump was fine, the decent thing to do would be an brief apology and everybody should move on. No burn the witch / cancel him forever nonsense.
https://x.com/GlennThrush/status/1969598181190103323
But at the same time thinking of myself as growing up - in their terms - in an age of "I will meet you three years hence, in the full moon, yonder by the third Oak after the magic rock."
https://dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/hochmagandy
Then, first, our fiscal by petition
Informs us, there is strong suspicion
That Coachman Dow, and Clocky Brown,
Baith residenters in this town;
In other words, you Jock and Sandy,
Hae been at warks of Houghmagandy,
And now when facts are come to light,
The matter ye deny outright.
However not to be too stramashy, I truly feel that sum of parts could be achieved without us being governed by the people you elect.
Farage pledges to expel hundreds of thousands of migrants
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/21/farage-reform-pledges-expel-hundreds-thousands-migrants/
https://dsl.ac.uk/entry/snd/waster_n1_v2
There's a fascinating book and papers by Christopher Whatley about the very mixed opinions of RB that came to light in later campaigns to build statchoos etc. to his memory. The Kirk sessions, in particular ...
https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Immortal_Memory/BiqgEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=burns+statues&pg=PP36&printsec=frontcover
Achtermuchty.
Kirkudbright.
Brora
And my personal favourite:
Haugh of Urr.
Only more poetic. And more Scottish.
"Starmer's own MPs blast digital ID plan as 'dystopian disaster' as PM 'thrashing around' for solution to small boats crisis"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15118491/Starmer-MPs-digital-ID-dystopian-disaster-PM-small-boats-crisis.html
A conker fell on my windscreen while driving the other day. "Thing of beauty" was not the first thing in my mind. But in general I agree with MM's point.
- "Should" they? Yes
- "Will" they? Probably not.
Bear in mind that the United States has in the last nine months built an anonymous armed snatch squad that takes hundreds or thousands of Americans of the street and transports them to undisclosed prisons in the US or abroad without legal assistance and holds them there indefinitely. Are you still sure we live in a good world, because I'm not.Regardless, I am unconvinced it is a sound decision.
I'm not quite sure what Kimmer meant by this. Clearly he wasnt a MAGA politically.
However he was from a conservative, white, middle-class, God-fearing (if heretical), gun-loving family, so "one of them" in that sense.
In any case, the US has no "balance" rules for broadcast media and believes in freedom of speech, so that should be par for the course.
I think what he did "wrong" was accuse Trump & Co of milking Kirk's death for all it is worth, which they have clearly been doing.
They offered the manufacturers to take a look (actually one of the firms doing the conversion did) - but they said no. Not interested.
Talk about the road not taken.
Its the sort of rhetoric which will start to turn away the Centre Right grey vote in droves. Most of them didnt sign up for rounding up settled immigrants.
The country is losing its damn mind
Kite flying, I suspect, and will not make the manifesto.
Starmer trying to protect the left of his party
General opinion is it will make no difference and certainly not with Netanyahu and Israel
The Reform UK leader will unveil plans to force all migrants with permanent residency to reapply for visas under stricter criteria including a higher salary requirement and a better standard of English.
The party would also change the law to prevent foreign nationals from accessing the British welfare system. The party claims this would save £234bn over the lifetime of the average migrant.
Writing in The Telegraph, below, Zia Yusuf, Reform’s policy chief, said the changes would lead to “hundreds of thousands of people having to apply and ultimately losing their settled status in the UK” on a staggered basis to prevent disruption to businesses."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/21/farage-reform-pledges-expel-hundreds-thousands-migrants/
Edit. I don't subscribe to the Telegraph but this article appears to be free to read?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Palestine
I hope our country comprehensively rejects this hateful policy in the millions of fair minded Brits
It’s inhumane and it does indeed appear that people on here support it.
Will the UK media actually call this fxcking disgrace out or just sit there fellating Farage .
Loathsome man.
Paul Mason
@paulmasonnews
·
1h
Who won? Work it out. Not Zarah 🥲
https://x.com/paulmasonnews/status/1969850567531909433
Not much range for hitting Moscow tho'
There's a big, big issue coming down the line when all these Boriswavers become eligible for indefinite leave to remain, and therefore state benefits. Kemi had already flagged that up - she wants to delay the granting of ilr. I suppose this is Reform's plan for dealing with that.
The Boriswave has to go home. En masse
Thousands of people here on spousal visas for example, some of whom can’t apply for naturalisation because their country of origin won’t allow it (eg Germany for countries outside the EU, India for everywhere), they don’t want to, or can’t afford it , will have to leave their families and leave the country.
A million people need to go home. More
Not “one out one in”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/05/kemi-badenoch-to-push-for-doubling-of-time-before-foreign-workers-can-settle-in-uk
It's a different policy to deal with the same thing - Boris's lot are about to become a massive massive national liability. Ignoring that isn't an option unless you're Keir Starmer. She had her policy, Reform have theirs - they're probably not that different in the detail.
"Our solution to this problem is to abolish ILR completely. That means no new awards and those who currently hold it will have it rescinded. We will replace it with a five-year renewable work visa, with a vastly higher qualifying salary, much reduced ability to bring dependents and a much higher required standard of English. Crucially, this visa will give holders no access to welfare."
And when they reach state pension age?
It doesn't however stop me talking and online campaigning against it