Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.
It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.
I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.
Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.
He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.
Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.
If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.
It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.
Take everything with a pinch of salt.
I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone. Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.
It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.
Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
I went to a campus uni in a small town and am very glad of it - my very occasional London visits to school friends (mostly medics) were visions of hell, and not hospital A&E either. Very glad not to have been at UCL.
UCL was brilliant for me. There was a huge union bar which a lot of people used. So - for me - there was the ultimate perfect combo of campus and big city - and London at that. It helped that I spent all three years in and around WC1 - you could still do it then
I hear it has changed a lot which saddens
Ah yes. UCL Union - a stack of bars. The memories of Cocktail Night. On a hot summers night, the central staircase was sometimes a waterfall of spilt Blue Lagoon…
Dionysus (aka Dialysis) Kebab resteraunt on Tottenham Court Road… a bag of beer after hours if they liked you.
The interesting bars in basements along Hanway Street.
The Hundred Club being anarchic.
The Phoenix Theatre bar. That lasted until the owner literally fell off his bar stool at the French wine bar in Lichfield Street.
The basement bar under Venus Videos in Soho. That opened at 3am
All these moments lost in time, like condensation on your anorak at the end of Wigan pier. Time for tea…
And “Cocktails” on a Thursday was the only real Union thing we ever really did. We would turn up at 12pm and work through to the close, occasionally you would amuse yourself by looking out of the windows to see the queue snaking down the street to get in.
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
They’re all finished anyway. The universities
I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking
Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.
Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.
We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.
The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.
But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000
If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious
I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again
Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
You have a very narrow view of university life. Hardly surprising as no doubt you drank and drugged your way through and pulled all-nighters on the odd essay needed to scrape a 2:1 on an arts degree. The world of work is changing and so Universities will adapt what they are teaching. No doubt some will struggle, but that’s always been the case. Some may go entirely or we may see more mergers, but you are probably way off bea.
You are also (a) spectacularly arrogant (b) usually looking to wings people up for fun and (c) being weirdly stalked by someone who copies your ideas.
Look at yourself. Ask yourself how many young people are willing to take on £50k debt, for life, with no guarantee of a good job at the end of it. It’s a tiny proportion of the present intake - it’s basically very rich kids. And that’s ignoring all the other pressures on the uni ecosystem outlined in the article
It’s over. A few will survive
This is already happening. You are a feeble ostrich pretending it isn’t happening
Personally I think the government should set up a fund which offers much smaller loans for 18-19 year olds to volunteer for a gap year abroad. A year in Africa or poor parts of Asia will teach these kids much more than a pointless year of a mediocre arts degree and it benefit other countries and our own people.
No discernible effect on uni intake as yet. Time will tell.
So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.
What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.
The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
Why is that necessary?
And surely pilots are trained to act in a certain way. Are we saying that Nato pilots are not told to shoot down Russian fighter jets if they violate airspace? It's an opportunity to eliminate three Russian fighter jets squandered.
Since the start of the Cold War, the Russians have always tried to shoot down any plane they felt was violating their airspace.
NATO policy was always to escort and be polite.
In one incident, a Russian patrol bomber, carrying nuclear weapons, landed at an American airbase in Alaska, lost.
The Americans gave them heaters, blankets and food overnight. Then gave them a full load of fuel to get home in the morning.
It'd be a bit of an error to shoot down a plane carrying nukes in your own airspace.
Why? It’s not like the Soviets were flying Violet Club replicas around. Tons on nukes have been in aircraft crashes. Worst that happens is having to bury some soil after a plutonium fire.
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
They’re all finished anyway. The universities
I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking
Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.
Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.
We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.
The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.
But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000
If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious
I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again
Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
You have a very narrow view of university life. Hardly surprising as no doubt you drank and drugged your way through and pulled all-nighters on the odd essay needed to scrape a 2:1 on an arts degree. The world of work is changing and so Universities will adapt what they are teaching. No doubt some will struggle, but that’s always been the case. Some may go entirely or we may see more mergers, but you are probably way off bea.
You are also (a) spectacularly arrogant (b) usually looking to wings people up for fun and (c) being weirdly stalked by someone who copies your ideas.
Look at yourself. Ask yourself how many young people are willing to take on £50k debt, for life, with no guarantee of a good job at the end of it. It’s a tiny proportion of the present intake - it’s basically very rich kids. And that’s ignoring all the other pressures on the uni ecosystem outlined in the article
It’s over. A few will survive
This is already happening. You are a feeble ostrich pretending it isn’t happening
Personally I think the government should set up a fund which offers much smaller loans for 18-19 year olds to volunteer for a gap year abroad. A year in Africa or poor parts of Asia will teach these kids much more than a pointless year of a mediocre arts degree and it benefit other countries and our own people.
In the US it's more like $400k of debt, and your opportunities post-graduation are even worse.
I went to university as a mature student which meant I really knew what course I wanted to do . I loved it . The perfect blend of learning, great social life and some part-time work to help pay the bills .
I think 18 can be too young to really know what career you want . I finished the year before you had to pay tuition fees so just had the student loan thankfully .
I went to university as a mature student which meant I really knew what course I wanted to do . I loved it . The perfect blend of learning, great social life and some part-time work to help pay the bills .
I think 18 can be too young to really know what career you want . I finished the year before you had to pay tuition fees so just had the student loan thankfully .
If I were to give one piece of advice to 18 year olds, it would be not to go to university unless you know why you're going. I went to uni at 18 because it was the next thing to do and it was expected. I did a subject because I'd been giod at it at school. I went again at 31 to do a masters, with an eye on a specific outcome. The latter was a far more rewarding experience and one I got a lot more out of.
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.
It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.
I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.
Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.
He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.
Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.
If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.
It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.
Take everything with a pinch of salt.
I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone. Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.
It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.
Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
I'm a Keele grad (undergraduate degree), and it was really good fun. Went to Edinburgh for my MSc and whilst it is a fantastic city and helped me move forward in my career, it was nowhere near as 'good' as Keele in the 1990s.
No social media, £250 a term rent, cheap bars and gigs nearly every night of the week. My parents bought me a little car and bunged me £1k a term to live on, what a life.
I really feel sorry for kids these days, they will never know such freedom unless their parents are very well to do. Also social media has absolutely ruined a lot of their fun. I've virtually no photos from any night out from that time, just good memories.
That bung would be £6k per year in today's money. That would have cheered up my time at uni significantly. (Among my friends there was seemingly no correlation between household income and such bungs or their absence. Not that I'm bitter.)
We weren't rich, just normal middle class - my Dad was an engineer in the north west. No tuition fees then, of course, which eased the pain.
My brother (also an engineer) gave my nephew about £6k a year when he was at university a couple of years back and he thought he was hard done by. Plus ca change etc.
So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.
What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.
The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
Why is that necessary?
And surely pilots are trained to act in a certain way. Are we saying that Nato pilots are not told to shoot down Russian fighter jets if they violate airspace? It's an opportunity to eliminate three Russian fighter jets squandered.
Since the start of the Cold War, the Russians have always tried to shoot down any plane they felt was violating their airspace.
NATO policy was always to escort and be polite.
In one incident, a Russian patrol bomber, carrying nuclear weapons, landed at an American airbase in Alaska, lost.
The Americans gave them heaters, blankets and food overnight. Then gave them a full load of fuel to get home in the morning.
It'd be a bit of an error to shoot down a plane carrying nukes in your own airspace.
Why? It’s not like the Soviets were flying Violet Club replicas around. Tons on nukes have been in aircraft crashes. Worst that happens is having to bury some soil after a plutonium fire.
We keep fretting over our weaknesses yet we aren't even prepared to flex our muscles where we are strong - in airpower. We're very lucky to have the Ukrainians on our side even if we're only half on theirs.
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
They’re all finished anyway. The universities
I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking
Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.
Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.
We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.
The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.
But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000
If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious
I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again
Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
You have a very narrow view of university life. Hardly surprising as no doubt you drank and drugged your way through and pulled all-nighters on the odd essay needed to scrape a 2:1 on an arts degree. The world of work is changing and so Universities will adapt what they are teaching. No doubt some will struggle, but that’s always been the case. Some may go entirely or we may see more mergers, but you are probably way off bea.
You are also (a) spectacularly arrogant (b) usually looking to wings people up for fun and (c) being weirdly stalked by someone who copies your ideas.
Look at yourself. Ask yourself how many young people are willing to take on £50k debt, for life, with no guarantee of a good job at the end of it. It’s a tiny proportion of the present intake - it’s basically very rich kids. And that’s ignoring all the other pressures on the uni ecosystem outlined in the article
It’s over. A few will survive
This is already happening. You are a feeble ostrich pretending it isn’t happening
Personally I think the government should set up a fund which offers much smaller loans for 18-19 year olds to volunteer for a gap year abroad. A year in Africa or poor parts of Asia will teach these kids much more than a pointless year of a mediocre arts degree and it benefit other countries and our own people.
No discernible effect on uni intake as yet. Time will tell.
It’s the quintessential lagging indicator. Indeed it’s possible for a while - a few years - that enthusiasm for uni will go UP - as young people get more desperate. But in the end it will collapse. You are teaching people the care and riding of horses, even as the first cars trundle out of the factory
I take absolutely no pleasure in this. Personally you’ve always struck me as one of the more perceptive and balanced of PB commenters. More generally I think Universities are a good thing. I loved my time, my older daughter is really enjoying hers and I hope her sister will join her
But they will be one of the last generations to do this. The entire economic basis of higher education is collapsing. Something will replace it. I guess
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
They’re all finished anyway. The universities
I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking
Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.
Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.
We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.
The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.
But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000
If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious
I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again
Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
You have a very narrow view of university life. Hardly surprising as no doubt you drank and drugged your way through and pulled all-nighters on the odd essay needed to scrape a 2:1 on an arts degree. The world of work is changing and so Universities will adapt what they are teaching. No doubt some will struggle, but that’s always been the case. Some may go entirely or we may see more mergers, but you are probably way off bea.
You are also (a) spectacularly arrogant (b) usually looking to wings people up for fun and (c) being weirdly stalked by someone who copies your ideas.
Look at yourself. Ask yourself how many young people are willing to take on £50k debt, for life, with no guarantee of a good job at the end of it. It’s a tiny proportion of the present intake - it’s basically very rich kids. And that’s ignoring all the other pressures on the uni ecosystem outlined in the article
It’s over. A few will survive
This is already happening. You are a feeble ostrich pretending it isn’t happening
Personally I think the government should set up a fund which offers much smaller loans for 18-19 year olds to volunteer for a gap year abroad. A year in Africa or poor parts of Asia will teach these kids much more than a pointless year of a mediocre arts degree and it benefit other countries and our own people.
Look, I share your views on the pointlessness of much of tertiary education, but it takes people a long time to change their minds. There is a while generation of sixth formers whose parents went to university and whose schools expect them to university. Sometimes new normals arrive quickly but I don't think this is one of them. All my friends expect their kids to go to university. I would love it if my daughters found another route after 18 which didn't involve £50k of debt. If I had sons I would be urging them into plumbing of electricianing or such. But it's a rare girl who goes into that sort of thing.
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
They’re all finished anyway. The universities
I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking
Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.
Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.
We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.
The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.
But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000
If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious
I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again
Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
You have a very narrow view of university life. Hardly surprising as no doubt you drank and drugged your way through and pulled all-nighters on the odd essay needed to scrape a 2:1 on an arts degree. The world of work is changing and so Universities will adapt what they are teaching. No doubt some will struggle, but that’s always been the case. Some may go entirely or we may see more mergers, but you are probably way off bea.
You are also (a) spectacularly arrogant (b) usually looking to wings people up for fun and (c) being weirdly stalked by someone who copies your ideas.
Look at yourself. Ask yourself how many young people are willing to take on £50k debt, for life, with no guarantee of a good job at the end of it. It’s a tiny proportion of the present intake - it’s basically very rich kids. And that’s ignoring all the other pressures on the uni ecosystem outlined in the article
It’s over. A few will survive
This is already happening. You are a feeble ostrich pretending it isn’t happening
Personally I think the government should set up a fund which offers much smaller loans for 18-19 year olds to volunteer for a gap year abroad. A year in Africa or poor parts of Asia will teach these kids much more than a pointless year of a mediocre arts degree and it benefit other countries and our own people.
In the US it's more like $400k of debt, and your opportunities post-graduation are even worse.
It’s notable that Charlie Kirk dropped out of uni. There are many telling videos where he correctly informs US students that they’ve been scammed. They’ve taken on huge debts to enter an economy that doesn’t want their half assed labour
I’m pretty sure this drove much of the hatred of him. No one likes being told they’ve been duped and their expensive ambitions are laughable
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
They’re all finished anyway. The universities
I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking
Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.
Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.
We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.
The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.
But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000
If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious
I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again
Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
You have a very narrow view of university life. Hardly surprising as no doubt you drank and drugged your way through and pulled all-nighters on the odd essay needed to scrape a 2:1 on an arts degree. The world of work is changing and so Universities will adapt what they are teaching. No doubt some will struggle, but that’s always been the case. Some may go entirely or we may see more mergers, but you are probably way off bea.
You are also (a) spectacularly arrogant (b) usually looking to wings people up for fun and (c) being weirdly stalked by someone who copies your ideas.
Look at yourself. Ask yourself how many young people are willing to take on £50k debt, for life, with no guarantee of a good job at the end of it. It’s a tiny proportion of the present intake - it’s basically very rich kids. And that’s ignoring all the other pressures on the uni ecosystem outlined in the article
It’s over. A few will survive
This is already happening. You are a feeble ostrich pretending it isn’t happening
Personally I think the government should set up a fund which offers much smaller loans for 18-19 year olds to volunteer for a gap year abroad. A year in Africa or poor parts of Asia will teach these kids much more than a pointless year of a mediocre arts degree and it benefit other countries and our own people.
Look, I share your views on the pointlessness of much of tertiary education, but it takes people a long time to change their minds. There is a while generation of sixth formers whose parents went to university and whose schools expect them to university. Sometimes new normals arrive quickly but I don't think this is one of them. All my friends expect their kids to go to university. I would love it if my daughters found another route after 18 which didn't involve £50k of debt. If I had sons I would be urging them into plumbing of electricianing or such. But it's a rare girl who goes into that sort of thing.
Well yes. Of course. Cultural inertia is a huge problem
And to be honest - am I gonna tell my bright scholastic daughters that going to uni is pointless? No. I think it will be good for them socially and emotionally. But do I think there will be obvious jobs for them at the end? Also no
And, crucially, I can afford to help them, to an extent. Most parents cannot
As Jamie Reed of Reed says: tell your kids to learn a trade
I went to university as a mature student which meant I really knew what course I wanted to do . I loved it . The perfect blend of learning, great social life and some part-time work to help pay the bills .
I think 18 can be too young to really know what career you want . I finished the year before you had to pay tuition fees so just had the student loan thankfully .
If I were to give one piece of advice to 18 year olds, it would be not to go to university unless you know why you're going. I went to uni at 18 because it was the next thing to do and it was expected. I did a subject because I'd been giod at it at school. I went again at 31 to do a masters, with an eye on a specific outcome. The latter was a far more rewarding experience and one I got a lot more out of.
I’ve said the same thing to younger relatives . If you’re not sure spend a few years working , save up and go travelling . See a bit of the world and then decide . Admittedly the parents aren’t too impressed with my advice and see me as the rogue relative !
AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.
Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
Your point would be more salient if they hadn't just elected as president someone who basically said exactly that.
I went to university as a mature student which meant I really knew what course I wanted to do . I loved it . The perfect blend of learning, great social life and some part-time work to help pay the bills .
I think 18 can be too young to really know what career you want . I finished the year before you had to pay tuition fees so just had the student loan thankfully .
If I were to give one piece of advice to 18 year olds, it would be not to go to university unless you know why you're going. I went to uni at 18 because it was the next thing to do and it was expected. I did a subject because I'd been giod at it at school. I went again at 31 to do a masters, with an eye on a specific outcome. The latter was a far more rewarding experience and one I got a lot more out of.
I’ve said the same thing to younger relatives . If you’re not sure spend a few years working , save up and go travelling . See a bit of the world and then decide . Admittedly the parents aren’t too impressed with my advice and see me as the rogue relative !
Your advice is really good. Stick at it
Honestly I believe challenging travel is a much better educator for the world that is to come, than some piped lecture down a video tube for some stupid media/geography course at keele which leads to nowhere but debt
So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.
What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.
The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
AIUI the airspace was out to sea near an Estonian island, so not quite as bad as flying over continental Estonia, but still a violation. One wonders what the point is. Surely the fact the Russia is STILL unable to defeat Ukraine should show them that they wouldn’t have a hope against NATO?
It usually takes 30 seconds for Russian air force planes to cross Estonian air space at Vaidloo. So the fact they were stooging around for 12 minutes before the Italians turned up is taking the piss. There will be consequences, but bear in mind that Ust Luga, the port a bare 15 miles from the Estonian border is still smoldering after the Ukrainian hit... its the Russians being arseholes to disguise how bad things are for them...
So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.
What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.
The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
In principle afaics there's no basis for not shooting them down, except that all countries are not there yet.
Perhaps we need a return to a version of Cold War Rules of Engagement.
I still get a fit of the vapours remembering I was envious when I went to see a friend’s brother at Portsmouth - absolute dump but loved the simplicity of it - here are the uni bars and here are the bars and clubs students go to and everyone knew each other when out.
Obviously the anonymity in London could be a lifesaver on the other hand.
I don’t know whether it was the same for you but we had UCLH and other medical schools who used the unions so they might have got the benefits of larger universities - in halls we had the UCLH people in with us which I think was good for them, and for us for the copious quantities of drugs and recovery aids they got hold of.
I did my first two degrees in Copenhagen, which sounds a lot more fun than it was - students generally had their own social lives sorted already, and partying was minimal - a couple of events a year. I remember the blank horror that was greeted by student union members when I suggested using a dating app that we'd done for studying - "people have regular relationships and we've no business disrupting them". Obviously people made friends anyway, but there was very little organised. I enjoyed it a lot anyway, but not for social life. My PhD was at Birkbeck, which had no social life at all - I popped over once a month to talk to my adviser. In retrospect I'm surprised I turned into a sociable type -it just developed slowly.
Supper, aiming for some razor clams with lime & coconut rice & tartare,plus a mini salad.
Poured a glass of white wine to accompany. Gulp. WTF? Ooops, it was gin by mistake.
I feel Leonine.
You are reminding me of an old Keith Floyd episode where he was on an oil rig off the coast of Norway (I may be getting that wrong). He was making a sauce and meant to pour in half a bottle of red wine. But instead poured in half a bottle of brandy.
"Never mind!"
As five-foot flames leaped up and the Norwegian riggers just eye-rolled.
He then poured in the 'missing' half bottle of red wine, as I remember.
So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.
What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.
The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
In principle afaics there's no basis for not shooting them down, except that all countries are not there yet.
Perhaps we need a return to a version of Cold War Rules of Engagement.
The Cold War NATO rules never involved shooting at Warsaw Pact aircraft. Instead they were treated as badly behaved children, with the nonsense about turning off transponders and not answering radio calls. They were followed around in very close formation.
If they started going too far, one of the escorts would be directly behind them.
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
They’re all finished anyway. The universities
I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
They’re all finished anyway. The universities
I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking
Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.
Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.
We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.
The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.
But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000
If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious
I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again
Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
You have a very narrow view of university life. Hardly surprising as no doubt you drank and drugged your way through and pulled all-nighters on the odd essay needed to scrape a 2:1 on an arts degree. The world of work is changing and so Universities will adapt what they are teaching. No doubt some will struggle, but that’s always been the case. Some may go entirely or we may see more mergers, but you are probably way off bea.
You are also (a) spectacularly arrogant (b) usually looking to wings people up for fun and (c) being weirdly stalked by someone who copies your ideas.
Look at yourself. Ask yourself how many young people are willing to take on £50k debt, for life, with no guarantee of a good job at the end of it. It’s a tiny proportion of the present intake - it’s basically very rich kids. And that’s ignoring all the other pressures on the uni ecosystem outlined in the article
It’s over. A few will survive
This is already happening. You are a feeble ostrich pretending it isn’t happening
Personally I think the government should set up a fund which offers much smaller loans for 18-19 year olds to volunteer for a gap year abroad. A year in Africa or poor parts of Asia will teach these kids much more than a pointless year of a mediocre arts degree and it benefit other countries and our own people.
Look, I share your views on the pointlessness of much of tertiary education, but it takes people a long time to change their minds. There is a while generation of sixth formers whose parents went to university and whose schools expect them to university. Sometimes new normals arrive quickly but I don't think this is one of them. All my friends expect their kids to go to university. I would love it if my daughters found another route after 18 which didn't involve £50k of debt. If I had sons I would be urging them into plumbing of electricianing or such. But it's a rare girl who goes into that sort of thing.
One of the few Green Party policies I've ever given thought to was that at ~18 you 'inherit' a pot of money. You can choose - I assume within reason - to spend it how how wish. Training, a degree, set up a start-up, whatever.
It seeme more preferable than the current policy set up.
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
They’re all finished anyway. The universities
I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.
It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.
I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.
Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.
He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.
Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.
If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.
It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.
Take everything with a pinch of salt.
I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone. Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.
It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
My daughter is applying to UK (and a couple of US) universities right now, and is very determined to be in a big city. So she's very dismissive of Cambridge or St Andrews, and even regards Oxford as a small town.
Her top picks are London (UCL, Kings), Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Personally, I've tried to put her off London. Even if she is able to get into International Student House for all three years of her degree, her friends will be all over the place after the first year, so it's much less sociable than a campus University.
I went to university as a mature student which meant I really knew what course I wanted to do . I loved it . The perfect blend of learning, great social life and some part-time work to help pay the bills .
I think 18 can be too young to really know what career you want . I finished the year before you had to pay tuition fees so just had the student loan thankfully .
If I were to give one piece of advice to 18 year olds, it would be not to go to university unless you know why you're going. I went to uni at 18 because it was the next thing to do and it was expected. I did a subject because I'd been giod at it at school. I went again at 31 to do a masters, with an eye on a specific outcome. The latter was a far more rewarding experience and one I got a lot more out of.
I’ve said the same thing to younger relatives . If you’re not sure spend a few years working , save up and go travelling . See a bit of the world and then decide . Admittedly the parents aren’t too impressed with my advice and see me as the rogue relative !
Your advice is really good. Stick at it
Honestly I believe challenging travel is a much better educator for the world that is to come, than some piped lecture down a video tube for some stupid media/geography course at keele which leads to nowhere but debt
Thanks. I really feel for those poor students who were totally screwed during Covid , so all that debt and cheated out of what should have been a great time in their lives . You do sort of inhabit a bubble at university which is why I loved it so much . Learning can be a wonderful thing , doing the research , putting your assignments together and the joy if you do really well , I also loved the study groups where you’d get together with uni friends , debate discuss , eat take aways , drink , etc . I think you can tell I’d love to go back in a Time Machine and start all over again . Maybe I’m looking through rose tinted glasses but the world seemed a much better place then .
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.
It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.
I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.
Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.
He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.
Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.
If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.
It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.
Take everything with a pinch of salt.
I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone. Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.
It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
My daughter is applying to UK (and a couple of US) universities right now, and is very determined to be in a big city. So she's very dismissive of Cambridge or St Andrews, and even regards Oxford as a small town.
Her top picks are London (UCL, Kings), Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Personally, I've tried to put her off London. Even if she is able to get into International Student House for all three years of her degree, her friends will be all over the place after the first year, so it's much less sociable than a campus University.
You can tell you are looking at unis from a distance - I wouldn't be rushing to Edinburgh or Glasgow the way Scotland ran student finances has made them a worse basket case than English ones.
Maybe getting 50k of debt (or 400k in the US) is actually the whole point of University.
I've been financially stretched many times in my life. When you've thrown your life savings behind a business idea, you have no choice but to make it succeed, otherwise all you have is a crushing mortgage and no job.
If you go to University, you have debt. Which means you have to work, or the debt will keep growing, and growing, and growing.
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.
It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.
I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.
Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.
He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.
Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.
If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.
It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.
Take everything with a pinch of salt.
I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone. Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.
It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
My daughter is applying to UK (and a couple of US) universities right now, and is very determined to be in a big city. So she's very dismissive of Cambridge or St Andrews, and even regards Oxford as a small town.
Her top picks are London (UCL, Kings), Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Personally, I've tried to put her off London. Even if she is able to get into International Student House for all three years of her degree, her friends will be all over the place after the first year, so it's much less sociable than a campus University.
You can tell you are looking at unis from a distance - I wouldn't be rushing to Edinburgh or Glasgow the way Scotland ran student finances has made them a worse basket case than English ones.
You don't go to Edinburgh or Glasgow for the undergraduate teaching (Heriot-Watt and Strathclyde are both better than their more prestigious neighbours, depending on the course). You go to them for the brilliant student societies and clubs, the gorgeous cities, and the name.
Having grown up in a small town I was always going to go for one of the two, and no further south due to the free tuition unless Oxbridge was a possibility.
Supper, aiming for some razor clams with lime & coconut rice & tartare,plus a mini salad.
Poured a glass of white wine to accompany. Gulp. WTF? Ooops, it was gin by mistake.
I feel Leonine.
You are reminding me of an old Keith Floyd episode where he was on an oil rig off the coast of Norway (I may be getting that wrong). He was making a sauce and meant to pour in half a bottle of red wine. But instead poured in half a bottle of brandy.
"Never mind!"
As five-foot flames leaped up and the Norwegian riggers just eye-rolled.
He then poured in the 'missing' half bottle of red wine, as I remember.
Normally the wine (and brandy) got poured down his throat, so I guess this is progress.
Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.
It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.
I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.
Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.
He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.
Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.
If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.
It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.
Take everything with a pinch of salt.
I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone. Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.
It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
My daughter is applying to UK (and a couple of US) universities right now, and is very determined to be in a big city. So she's very dismissive of Cambridge or St Andrews, and even regards Oxford as a small town.
Her top picks are London (UCL, Kings), Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Personally, I've tried to put her off London. Even if she is able to get into International Student House for all three years of her degree, her friends will be all over the place after the first year, so it's much less sociable than a campus University.
It’s a horrible quandary for you. To be a student in London, especially at a globally elite university can’t be ignored, not only for the global mix and quality of the students but to be able to spend your days, when not studying, at some of the best museums and galleries in the world, probably the most cosmopolitan city in the world, nightlife, hugga-mugga daily with the famous, infamous. It’s amazing but it’s not university life.
She might have a group of friends who are all financially able to live the same life which is great in one way but exclusive in the worst way. She might have to live in the arse end of nowhere and have a big commute to university because she wants to stick with friends who can’t live in the centre and frankly that just makes you put off,library time, skip the odd lecture because it’s a bit of a bugger to get in.
You will know your daughter and if she is a dynamic and motivated person then what a world to spend your 18-early 20s in. If she needs a kick up the backside then she could get lost. I was with many very bright and great people who got lost in London life because it was so much bigger and brighter than uni life.
It clearly works for many by the global prestige and the production that UCL, Imperial, LSE and the medical schools have, they must have students who thrive but it’s not for everyone.
Maybe getting 50k of debt (or 400k in the US) is actually the whole point of University.
I've been financially stretched many times in my life. When you've thrown your life savings behind a business idea, you have no choice but to make it succeed, otherwise all you have is a crushing mortgage and no job.
If you go to University, you have debt. Which means you have to work, or the debt will keep growing, and growing, and growing.
Indebted people work harder.
Many people don’t end up working in an area related to their degree so the debt seems less worth it . Things are just so much tougher for younger people now .
Maybe getting 50k of debt (or 400k in the US) is actually the whole point of University.
I've been financially stretched many times in my life. When you've thrown your life savings behind a business idea, you have no choice but to make it succeed, otherwise all you have is a crushing mortgage and no job.
If you go to University, you have debt. Which means you have to work, or the debt will keep growing, and growing, and growing.
Indebted people work harder.
Many people don’t end up working in an area related to their degree so the debt seems less worth it . Things are just so much tougher for younger people now .
I have a philosophy degree, and it's been very useful to me.
You see, when things don't work out, then at least I can be philosophical about it.
Maybe getting 50k of debt (or 400k in the US) is actually the whole point of University.
I've been financially stretched many times in my life. When you've thrown your life savings behind a business idea, you have no choice but to make it succeed, otherwise all you have is a crushing mortgage and no job.
If you go to University, you have debt. Which means you have to work, or the debt will keep growing, and growing, and growing.
Indebted people work harder.
Many people don’t end up working in an area related to their degree so the debt seems less worth it . Things are just so much tougher for younger people now .
I have a philosophy degree, and it's been very useful to me.
You see, when things don't work out, then at least I can be philosophical about it.
My favourite philosophical point I’ve learnt recently is that pessimists argue about whether the glass is half empty, optimists argue that the glass is half full but opportunists drink the drink whilst the others are self absorbed.
Maybe getting 50k of debt (or 400k in the US) is actually the whole point of University.
I've been financially stretched many times in my life. When you've thrown your life savings behind a business idea, you have no choice but to make it succeed, otherwise all you have is a crushing mortgage and no job.
If you go to University, you have debt. Which means you have to work, or the debt will keep growing, and growing, and growing.
Indebted people work harder.
Many people don’t end up working in an area related to their degree so the debt seems less worth it . Things are just so much tougher for younger people now .
I have a philosophy degree, and it's been very useful to me.
You see, when things don't work out, then at least I can be philosophical about it.
My favourite philosophical point I’ve learnt recently is that pessimists argue about whether the glass is half empty, optimists argue that the glass is half full but opportunists drink the drink whilst the others are self absorbed.
And pragmatists consider whether they've already had enough to drink.
I went to university as a mature student which meant I really knew what course I wanted to do . I loved it . The perfect blend of learning, great social life and some part-time work to help pay the bills .
I think 18 can be too young to really know what career you want . I finished the year before you had to pay tuition fees so just had the student loan thankfully .
If I were to give one piece of advice to 18 year olds, it would be not to go to university unless you know why you're going. I went to uni at 18 because it was the next thing to do and it was expected. I did a subject because I'd been giod at it at school. I went again at 31 to do a masters, with an eye on a specific outcome. The latter was a far more rewarding experience and one I got a lot more out of.
I’ve said the same thing to younger relatives . If you’re not sure spend a few years working , save up and go travelling . See a bit of the world and then decide . Admittedly the parents aren’t too impressed with my advice and see me as the rogue relative !
Your advice is really good. Stick at it
Honestly I believe challenging travel is a much better educator for the world that is to come, than some piped lecture down a video tube for some stupid media/geography course at keele which leads to nowhere but debt
It broadens the mind maybe but it still won't get you a job as a lawyer, doctor, teacher or even a nurse for which you need a degree
Maybe getting 50k of debt (or 400k in the US) is actually the whole point of University.
I've been financially stretched many times in my life. When you've thrown your life savings behind a business idea, you have no choice but to make it succeed, otherwise all you have is a crushing mortgage and no job.
If you go to University, you have debt. Which means you have to work, or the debt will keep growing, and growing, and growing.
Indebted people work harder.
There might be some truth in this theory if student loans were anything like normal borrowing, but the way we do student loans in the UK would completely work against it. Unless you are pretty high flying, most students will never pay it off, so over payments are just wasted cash. Meanwhile it functions as an effective graduate tax - so it does the same economic damage as raising income tax would (but without the government getting any revenue).
Being motivated by crushing debt will only work when 1)paying the debt off is achievable and 2)there are consequences for default. Neither of these statements are true of most UK student loans.
Three comments on the smoking discussion: 1. In WW II. American soldiers got a smoking ration. (And could buy more at at a PX -- which they sometimes stepped outside and sold to foreigners.) 2. Cosmopolitan magazine was quite late to tell its readers about the dangers of smoking; Readers Digest was early, partly, no doubt, because they did not accept advertising. 3. The reduction in smoking in the US during my life time is one of our biggest health achievements -- ever.
Maybe getting 50k of debt (or 400k in the US) is actually the whole point of University.
I've been financially stretched many times in my life. When you've thrown your life savings behind a business idea, you have no choice but to make it succeed, otherwise all you have is a crushing mortgage and no job.
If you go to University, you have debt. Which means you have to work, or the debt will keep growing, and growing, and growing.
Indebted people work harder.
I get your broad point - but those who don't work hard don't have to pay it off which defeats the point. I think this (skewing elderly) website sometimes misses the mood in the young.
I've worked like a dog, and been very lucky to the extent that my (non-romantic) housemate and I clear £150k gross a year + moderate bonuses in our mid 20s, but despite that our fate is not in our own hands. What will determine whether we can buy a house is our background and family wealth. My parents bought a Southbank flat at a far more junior level than me and paid it off within a few years. At the time the place was 2x salary, yet despite being in a far better place in terms of income percentiles it'd take me 3 decades to pay off the same place now, assuming I spend no other money at all.
There's an incredible despondency, just this week an issue got elevate to me where I had to explain to somebody that their bonus would be taxed at 83% - 60% (PA withdrawal), 9% (Undergrad), 6% (Postgrad), 2% (NI), 5% (Pension). In the UK work doesn't pay, no matter how well you do. And eh has a kid so he'd probably lose money overall!
My circle has gone from very Labour to majority Reform, because worst case they screw it up and we can finally leave.
X mandy rhodes@holyroodmandy Say what you will about Douglas Ross’s leadership of the Scottish Tories but he has arguably brought down a first minister and now a minister for parliamentary business! https://x.com/holyroodmandy/status/1969060401812799604
So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.
What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.
The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
AIUI the airspace was out to sea near an Estonian island, so not quite as bad as flying over continental Estonia, but still a violation. One wonders what the point is. Surely the fact the Russia is STILL unable to defeat Ukraine should show them that they wouldn’t have a hope against NATO?
Putin wants an excuse to escalate.
He is losing. Against Ukraine. Even his own population don’t believe he is fighting NATO. So he want an international incident that he can fulminate about and create more uncertainty and doubt in the west via his bot army
So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.
What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.
The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
Why is that necessary?
And surely pilots are trained to act in a certain way. Are we saying that Nato pilots are not told to shoot down Russian fighter jets if they violate airspace? It's an opportunity to eliminate three Russian fighter jets squandered.
AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.
Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.
That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.
I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.
Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.
Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
Agreed.
Many years back, I attended an OR conference in New Orleans. At lunch, the long table of 20+ were squabbling over the bill.
The waitress asked me, since I was the only one not arguing, what was going on.
I told her the literal truth - that everyone else at the table was a Professor of Mathematics.
Why didn't one person simply pay the bill at the time, and then everyone arrange the splits later on, (even if that was only 5 mins later).
I wouldn’t trust 20+ academics not to mess that up really, really badly.
"For decades, a dedicated group of volunteer gardeners have tended to the grounds of Mottistone Manor on the Isle of Wight. Even throughout the pandemic, they planted bulbs, trimmed hedges, and cut grass at the National Trust estate.
But the 13 volunteers say they have been forced out, without warning, by trust managers who claimed their “attitude and values” did not align with the charity’s “respectful and inclusive culture”.
What exactly the gardeners are supposed to have done wrong has not been explained."
They probably think men cannot become women.
More likely, they have noticed the manager is a complete arsehole and been unwise enough to show it.
So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.
What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.
The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
Why is that necessary?
And surely pilots are trained to act in a certain way. Are we saying that Nato pilots are not told to shoot down Russian fighter jets if they violate airspace? It's an opportunity to eliminate three Russian fighter jets squandered.
They are trained not to fire without orders
AIUI that would depend on the rules of engagement, which almost certainly would have been not to fire without orders.
There's another issue that even a couple of pro-Ukraine accounts are suggesting: due to Russia's GPS spoofing in the area, it might be that the Russian planes were in international airspace at the time. Although NATO planes will have other means of getting exact location, they are more difficult and less reliable than GPS. And since GPS is western, Russia may rely on it less.
"For decades, a dedicated group of volunteer gardeners have tended to the grounds of Mottistone Manor on the Isle of Wight. Even throughout the pandemic, they planted bulbs, trimmed hedges, and cut grass at the National Trust estate.
But the 13 volunteers say they have been forced out, without warning, by trust managers who claimed their “attitude and values” did not align with the charity’s “respectful and inclusive culture”.
What exactly the gardeners are supposed to have done wrong has not been explained."
They probably think men cannot become women.
More likely, they have noticed the manager is a complete arsehole and been unwise enough to show it.
From what I've heard, the NT is not a pleasant organisation. There are lots of good grass-roots employees and volunteers, but the middle and senior management are far more interested in money than heritage or their staff.
I would not be surprised if a firm is now contracted to do the work.
"For decades, a dedicated group of volunteer gardeners have tended to the grounds of Mottistone Manor on the Isle of Wight. Even throughout the pandemic, they planted bulbs, trimmed hedges, and cut grass at the National Trust estate.
But the 13 volunteers say they have been forced out, without warning, by trust managers who claimed their “attitude and values” did not align with the charity’s “respectful and inclusive culture”.
What exactly the gardeners are supposed to have done wrong has not been explained."
They probably think men cannot become women.
More likely, they have noticed the manager is a complete arsehole and been unwise enough to show it.
From what I've heard, the NT is not a pleasant organisation. There are lots of good grass-roots employees and volunteers, but the middle and senior management are far more interested in money than heritage or their staff.
I would not be surprised if a firm is now contracted to do the work.
They will have picked it up from the local media, here:
"For decades, a dedicated group of volunteer gardeners have tended to the grounds of Mottistone Manor on the Isle of Wight. Even throughout the pandemic, they planted bulbs, trimmed hedges, and cut grass at the National Trust estate.
But the 13 volunteers say they have been forced out, without warning, by trust managers who claimed their “attitude and values” did not align with the charity’s “respectful and inclusive culture”.
What exactly the gardeners are supposed to have done wrong has not been explained."
They probably think men cannot become women.
More likely, they have noticed the manager is a complete arsehole and been unwise enough to show it.
From what I've heard, the NT is not a pleasant organisation. There are lots of good grass-roots employees and volunteers, but the middle and senior management are far more interested in money than heritage or their staff.
I would not be surprised if a firm is now contracted to do the work.
They will have picked it up from the local media, here:
Not that the real story is any more obvious from that.
Having volunteered for a couple of organisations in the past, the amount of internal politics is quite staggering, between volunteers as well as between paid staff, management and volunteers. Because volunteers are not paid, they cannot be relied upon in quite the same ways as paid staff, and because they are working for nothing, volunteers expect a little more respect for their efforts. Cliques form, and people can be *very* stubborn.
The fact they apparently have not been told about what the problems are, indicates to me that this is more internal politics than stuff they have, or have not, done.
Heck, even a free warm stew at lunch on a cold winter's Sunday did much for morale.
AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.
Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.
That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.
I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.
Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.
Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
Agreed.
Many years back, I attended an OR conference in New Orleans. At lunch, the long table of 20+ were squabbling over the bill.
The waitress asked me, since I was the only one not arguing, what was going on.
I told her the literal truth - that everyone else at the table was a Professor of Mathematics.
Why didn't one person simply pay the bill at the time, and then everyone arrange the splits later on, (even if that was only 5 mins later).
I wouldn’t trust 20+ academics not to mess that up really, really badly.
Depends on how they divide the pi.
I think dividing the Bill is a Displacement Activity. My experience of Maths Graduates and other Graduates tends to be they are defensive about their genuine abilities. Now for 21 Maths Professors they could divide a bill 21 ways or whatever which would save them justifying or not justifying some new supposition about determinant vectors which they all suspect might or might not be bollocks.
Those predicting their doom often seem to be those who either dropped out or had a bit of a tangential relationship with uni, or those who didn't go at all. Doesn't mean they are wrong, but noteworthy.
First, if AI makes society richer, that ought to make good things in society more affordable, not less. It does mean we have a problem if a few tech squillionaires decide to hoard all their squillions on the grounds that their net wealth is how they know they have succeeded in life, but we have that problem anyway.
Second, suppose AI does automate every job. I'm a bit dubious, since it can't draw a worksheet of triangles each with three sides for me, but suppose it does. What are we all going to do all day? Clearly some people will ascend to a haze of strange drugs and kinky sex, but many of us don't want that. Learning more of the best of what has been thought and said seems as good a plan as any.
People haven't stopped making cakes because Mr Kipling can make them more cheaply and reliably.
So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.
What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.
The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
Why is that necessary?
And surely pilots are trained to act in a certain way. Are we saying that Nato pilots are not told to shoot down Russian fighter jets if they violate airspace? It's an opportunity to eliminate three Russian fighter jets squandered.
They are trained not to fire without orders
AIUI that would depend on the rules of engagement, which almost certainly would have been not to fire without orders.
There's another issue that even a couple of pro-Ukraine accounts are suggesting: due to Russia's GPS spoofing in the area, it might be that the Russian planes were in international airspace at the time. Although NATO planes will have other means of getting exact location, they are more difficult and less reliable than GPS. And since GPS is western, Russia may rely on it less.
This would be a rare case of Russia not lying.
We can not use GPS much of the time in the East of Estonia because of Russian interference , but the identification of the inbound targets doesn't use GPS, but ground radar, both Estonian and Finnish. In these encounters, NATO prefers not to use missile lock-on because that gives away frequencies and other information. Usually the Russian planes fly past the island and spend maybe 30 seconds in Estonian air space. There is a protest each time, but not always an interception. A missile lock on would be the next stage in deterrence of these incursions, but NATO does not generally discuss when they do that- though it has apparently happened.
There are a couple of unusual things about this incursion. Firstly that they were MiG 31s-active war planes that carry "hypersonic" Kindjal missiles, rather than usual transports going round from St Petersburg to the "Kaliningrad oblast" and secondly the 12 minutes that the Russian jets spent in NATO air space, which essentially means they were circling Vaindloo island.
Vaindloo is about 150 miles from Tallinn, so about 170 from the air base at Amari, so we may assume that the scramble of the Italian F-35s was probably delayed a few minutes until they confirmed that this was a non standard incursion. As with the drone incursions into Poland it was a deliberate provocation and demands a response. This is why the protests have been so public.
The question is why the Kremlin is creating the provocation at this point. Firstly it normalises the incursions if they keep happening- and scrambling the F-35s each time isn't cheap, so it is an irritant, and it increases Russian NATO tension which puts the wind up the more pacifist parts of NATO societies.
However, while it reminds NATO that Russia has plenty of very dangerous kit, and that Ukrainian drone attacks from NATO territory against Russia would be "problematic" it also reflects the fact that the Kremlin had an awful week in Ukraine. Major problems with Ukrainian attacks on the oil logistics in the Baltic and elsewhere and horrific Russian losses on the ground.
Russia is not winning and these games kind of prove that.
Comments
I think 18 can be too young to really know what career you want . I finished the year before you had to pay tuition fees so just had the student loan thankfully .
https://www.ft.com/content/f2b333ba-3157-473f-b831-9eb7856c1edd
I went to uni at 18 because it was the next thing to do and it was expected. I did a subject because I'd been giod at it at school.
I went again at 31 to do a masters, with an eye on a specific outcome.
The latter was a far more rewarding experience and one I got a lot more out of.
My brother (also an engineer) gave my nephew about £6k a year when he was at university a couple of years back and he thought he was hard done by. Plus ca change etc.
I take absolutely no pleasure in this. Personally you’ve always struck me as one of the more perceptive and balanced of PB commenters. More generally I think
Universities are a good thing. I loved my time, my older daughter is really enjoying hers and I hope her sister will join her
But they will be one of the last generations to do this. The entire economic basis of higher education is collapsing. Something will replace it. I guess
I would love it if my daughters found another route after 18 which didn't involve £50k of debt. If I had sons I would be urging them into plumbing of electricianing or such. But it's a rare girl who goes into that sort of thing.
I’m pretty sure this drove much of the hatred of him. No one likes being told they’ve been duped and their expensive ambitions are laughable
And to be honest - am I gonna tell my bright scholastic daughters that going to uni is pointless? No. I think it will be good for them socially and emotionally. But do I think there will be obvious jobs for them at the end? Also no
And, crucially, I can afford to help them, to an extent. Most parents cannot
As Jamie Reed of Reed says: tell your kids to learn a trade
Honestly I believe challenging travel is a much better educator for the world that is to come, than some piped lecture down a video tube for some stupid media/geography course at keele which leads to nowhere but debt
Perhaps we need a return to a version of Cold War Rules of Engagement.
Supper, aiming for some razor clams with lime & coconut rice & tartare,plus a mini salad.
Poured a glass of white wine to accompany. Gulp. WTF? Ooops, it was gin by mistake.
I feel Leonine.
Adam Wren
@G0ADM
We pay France to take a guy that can be legally deported, they deport him and give us a different guy that can’t be deported.
So France gets rid of two people and we swap someone potentially legally deportable for one that isn’t lmao. Total gaul victory here I’m afraid"
https://x.com/G0ADM/status/1969011977805517056
I once got up from a hangover and reached for a tumbler of bedside water and took a gulp only to find it was warm dry sherry.
Which has its place, but for an area of 80k people it is a bit thin.
"Never mind!"
As five-foot flames leaped up and the Norwegian riggers just eye-rolled.
He then poured in the 'missing' half bottle of red wine, as I remember.
If they started going too far, one of the escorts would be directly behind them.
It seeme more preferable than the current policy set up.
Dadlore: the stories that you tell your kids from before you met your mother in order to show you weren't always old and boring.
I'm OK with it. The cap fits.
Her top picks are London (UCL, Kings), Edinburgh and Glasgow.
Personally, I've tried to put her off London. Even if she is able to get into International Student House for all three years of her degree, her friends will be all over the place after the first year, so it's much less sociable than a campus University.
Maybe getting 50k of debt (or 400k in the US) is actually the whole point of University.
I've been financially stretched many times in my life. When you've thrown your life savings behind a business idea, you have no choice but to make it succeed, otherwise all you have is a crushing mortgage and no job.
If you go to University, you have debt. Which means you have to work, or the debt will keep growing, and growing, and growing.
Indebted people work harder.
Having grown up in a small town I was always going to go for one of the two, and no further south due to the free tuition unless Oxbridge was a possibility.
She might have a group of friends who are all financially able to live the same life which is great in one way but exclusive in the worst way. She might have to live in the arse end of nowhere and have a big commute to university because she wants to stick with friends who can’t live in the centre and frankly that just makes you put off,library time, skip the odd lecture because it’s a bit of a bugger to get in.
You will know your daughter and if she is a dynamic and motivated person then what a world to spend your 18-early 20s in. If she needs a kick up the backside then she could get lost. I was with many very bright and great people who got lost in London life because it was so much bigger and brighter than uni life.
It clearly works for many by the global prestige and the production that UCL, Imperial, LSE and the medical schools have, they must have students who thrive but it’s not for everyone.
You see, when things don't work out, then at least I can be philosophical about it.
Being motivated by crushing debt will only work when 1)paying the debt off is achievable and 2)there are consequences for default. Neither of these statements are true of most UK student loans.
1. In WW II. American soldiers got a smoking ration. (And could buy more at at a PX -- which they sometimes stepped outside and sold to foreigners.)
2. Cosmopolitan magazine was quite late to tell its readers about the dangers of smoking; Readers Digest was early, partly, no doubt, because they did not accept advertising.
3. The reduction in smoking in the US during my life time is one of our biggest health achievements -- ever.
I've worked like a dog, and been very lucky to the extent that my (non-romantic) housemate and I clear £150k gross a year + moderate bonuses in our mid 20s, but despite that our fate is not in our own hands. What will determine whether we can buy a house is our background and family wealth. My parents bought a Southbank flat at a far more junior level than me and paid it off within a few years. At the time the place was 2x salary, yet despite being in a far better place in terms of income percentiles it'd take me 3 decades to pay off the same place now, assuming I spend no other money at all.
There's an incredible despondency, just this week an issue got elevate to me where I had to explain to somebody that their bonus would be taxed at 83% - 60% (PA withdrawal), 9% (Undergrad), 6% (Postgrad), 2% (NI), 5% (Pension). In the UK work doesn't pay, no matter how well you do. And eh has a kid so he'd probably lose money overall!
My circle has gone from very Labour to majority Reform, because worst case they screw it up and we can finally leave.
mandy rhodes@holyroodmandy
Say what you will about Douglas Ross’s leadership of the Scottish Tories but he has arguably brought down a first minister and now a minister for parliamentary business!
https://x.com/holyroodmandy/status/1969060401812799604
He is losing. Against Ukraine. Even his own population don’t believe he is fighting NATO. So he want an international incident that he can fulminate about and create more uncertainty and doubt in the west via his bot army
There's another issue that even a couple of pro-Ukraine accounts are suggesting: due to Russia's GPS spoofing in the area, it might be that the Russian planes were in international airspace at the time. Although NATO planes will have other means of getting exact location, they are more difficult and less reliable than GPS. And since GPS is western, Russia may rely on it less.
This would be a rare case of Russia not lying.
I would not be surprised if a firm is now contracted to do the work.
https://iwobserver.co.uk/mottistone-manor-gardeners-sacked-without-warning/
Not that the real story is any more obvious from that.
The fact they apparently have not been told about what the problems are, indicates to me that this is more internal politics than stuff they have, or have not, done.
Heck, even a free warm stew at lunch on a cold winter's Sunday did much for morale.
NEW THREAD
Those predicting their doom often seem to be those who either dropped out or had a bit of a tangential relationship with uni, or those who didn't go at all. Doesn't mean they are wrong, but noteworthy.
First, if AI makes society richer, that ought to make good things in society more affordable, not less. It does mean we have a problem if a few tech squillionaires decide to hoard all their squillions on the grounds that their net wealth is how they know they have succeeded in life, but we have that problem anyway.
Second, suppose AI does automate every job. I'm a bit dubious, since it can't draw a worksheet of triangles each with three sides for me, but suppose it does. What are we all going to do all day? Clearly some people will ascend to a haze of strange drugs and kinky sex, but many of us don't want that. Learning more of the best of what has been thought and said seems as good a plan as any.
People haven't stopped making cakes because Mr Kipling can make them more cheaply and reliably.
There are a couple of unusual things about this incursion. Firstly that they were MiG 31s-active war planes that carry "hypersonic" Kindjal missiles, rather than usual transports going round from St Petersburg to the "Kaliningrad oblast" and secondly the 12 minutes that the Russian jets spent in NATO air space, which essentially means they were circling Vaindloo island.
Vaindloo is about 150 miles from Tallinn, so about 170 from the air base at Amari, so we may assume that the scramble of the Italian F-35s was probably delayed a few minutes until they confirmed that this was a non standard incursion. As with the drone incursions into Poland it was a deliberate provocation and demands a response. This is why the protests have been so public.
The question is why the Kremlin is creating the provocation at this point. Firstly it normalises the incursions if they keep happening- and scrambling the F-35s each time isn't cheap, so it is an irritant, and it increases Russian NATO tension which puts the wind up the more pacifist parts of NATO societies.
However, while it reminds NATO that Russia has plenty of very dangerous kit, and that Ukrainian drone attacks from NATO territory against Russia would be "problematic" it also reflects the fact that the Kremlin had an awful week in Ukraine. Major problems with Ukrainian attacks on the oil logistics in the Baltic and elsewhere and horrific Russian losses on the ground.
Russia is not winning and these games kind of prove that.