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  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    Is she the one under the shroud?
    No, it’s an interpretation of Your Party through the medium of painting.
    How many more votes did Corbyn need back in 2017? Thank feck we dodged that bullet.
  • AnthonyT said:

    Ratters said:

    Sir Keir Starmer is giving Hamas a “reward for terrorism” by recognising a Palestinian state, Kemi Badenoch has said.

    The Conservative leader said Sir Keir was “incapable of leading Britain on the world stage” and accused him of “economic self-sabotage” in the face of global threats by implementing net zero.

    In an essay for The Telegraph on her foreign policy plans, Mrs Badenoch condemned the Government’s decision to recognise a Palestinian state in an attempt to put pressure on Israel for a ceasefire in Gaza.

    She said the Conservatives would “never apologise for standing by Israel when it strikes back against terrorism” and accused Sir Keir of being “nice” to hostile foreign powers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/19/badenoch-starmer-palestinian-state-rewards-terrorism/

    That would have been a fair point if it was done 18 months ago.

    It's been nearly 2 years since the horrendous Hamas attacks and Israel continues to collectively punish the people of Gaza. It's right that there are consequences for this. If anything, I'd argue recognising Palestine is too symbolic and more concrete measures should be taken against the current Israeli government.
    Hamas are still holding hostages. What measures are being taken to make them release them? Instead the government is rewarding them.
    Well said.

    Hamas could surrender at any stage. They haven't.

    Israel has every right to continue fighting until the war is won and the enemy is defeated. Whatever it takes.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,423
    The header reminds me of the old Glasgow joke of "When neds die, they come back as seagulls. When seagulls die they come back as wasps. When wasps die they come back as tories."
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,985
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "James Tidmarsh

    The tyranny of tipping
    Why should I be expected to pay extra?"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-tyranny-of-tipping/

    The only thing worse than tipping is people complaining about tipping.
    I am going to complain about the people who complain about tipping. I tip if I have enough money (I don't always). Be good to the staff because one day that will be you.
    No. Just charge me what the thing costs and pay the person serving appropriately. It's not the cost I object to, it's a fundamentally embarassing transaction. I don't like the implied superior/supplicant relationship. If you are comfortable with it I doubt you are truly British.
    I am possibly the most British person on PB!
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She's running...

    @acyn.bsky.social‬

    AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.

    https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lz7bfj4map2q

    Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
    Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
    Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
    Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.

    That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.

    I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.

    Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
    The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.

    Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
    I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
    I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
    Agreed.

    Wait till you hear about the Tricount app.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,423

    Eabhal said:

    Foss said:

    Nigelb said:

    This suggests why we rely to such a foolish extent on foreign investment.
    Why are we allowing overseas investors to buy boring old utilities, for example, when they would be a very good vehicle for relatively low risk, inflation protected investment ?

    Folk in the UK put £103bln into ISAs last year, £69.5bln of that (approx 2/3rds) went into cash ISAs...essentially, guaranteeing a near-zero, if not negative, real return on those funds over the next year...so much more financial education needed across the board...
    https://x.com/MrMBrown/status/1968904613987279317

    Dividends would remain onshore, rather than adding to our long term balance of payments deficit.

    Because we (for various values of "we") decided we would rather have the cash upfront.
    Cash ISAs are covered by the FSCS, share ISAs aren't.
    For most people your ISA is primarily your emergency fund. It's quite unusual to be making serious long-term investments; rarer still to be maxing out your allowance. That explains why most of it is cash ISA I think.
    Fair enough, given that a scarily huge number of people don't even have an emergency fund, which cash ISAs ought to be good for. 20k a year is fairly easy if and only if you have a paid-off mortgage, in which case cash savings aren't really the point... But good luck politically changing that.

    And the loss aversion thing is strong, which limits us all.
    I'm late to todays chat - but "20k a year is fairly easy if and only if you have a paid-off mortgage"? 20k a year is the bulk of most peoples yearly wage before any tax or outgoings?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,725
    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,464

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    Why did they paint her twice with another guy?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,099
    Cookie said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "James Tidmarsh

    The tyranny of tipping
    Why should I be expected to pay extra?"

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-tyranny-of-tipping/

    The only thing worse than tipping is people complaining about tipping.
    I am going to complain about the people who complain about tipping. I tip if I have enough money (I don't always). Be good to the staff because one day that will be you.
    No. Just charge me what the thing costs and pay the person serving appropriately. It's not the cost I object to, it's a fundamentally embarassing transaction. I don't like the implied superior/supplicant relationship. If you are comfortable with it I doubt you are truly British.
    I just don't the see the embarrassment. And I don't see any superior/supplicant relationship either.

    Tipping (or extra tipping) a good server is a sign of respect. And I see that as a positive thing.
  • boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    Is she the one under the shroud?
    No, it’s an interpretation of Your Party through the medium of painting.
    Ironically Ken was very, VERY red when an angry young painter, used to get the Morning Star delivered and everything. Mellowed a bit since then, though pretty sure he still wouldn’t kiss a Tory.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Durham is great but be warned - housing is expensive and there will be zero chance of getting term time work there. Now neither of those things may be important to you but my twin A is aware of a lot of students who have been caught out by that...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781

    Migrant who raped woman in Hyde Park is convicted terrorist

    Abdelrahmen Adnan Abouelela was sentenced in Egypt for building explosives, before entering the UK and staying in a Hilton hotel while claiming asylum. He had been convicted in absentia in Egypt as part of a bomb-making cell and sentenced to seven years in May 2015. An Egyptian court found that he and six accomplices had built explosives intended to damage electricity pylons and gas lines in a “terrorist” act,

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/rape-woman-hyde-park-terrorism-asylum-seeker-tm5xnpszg

    It seems pretty clear to me that anyone who returns voluntarily to the country that they have sought asylum from has forfeited their right to asylum.
    Why? Let's say you flee Freelandia and are given asylum in Peebeezia. You become a citizen in Peebeezia. The situation in Freelandia gets a bit better after the death of the dictator in Freelandia, but it's still dodgy. You haven't seen your family in years, perhaps. With the protection of the citizenship of Peebeezia, you decide it is safe enough to visit for a short time. It may, however, remain unsafe to return permanently and without the protection of Peebeezia.
    One needs asylum because one is in fear of one's life. That is not consistent with returning at all, whether one misses one's family or not. I don't see what a short or long time has to do with it - the authorities can detect it as soon as someone enters the country. As for the protection of Peebeezia meaning anything, that's a laugh. Even in the days of Palmerston and 'Civis Romanus Sum' it was a bit of a myth, and these days I don't think any potentate is going to be put off doing a bit of torture because they don't want to get on Starmer’s wrong side.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778

    Eabhal said:

    Foss said:

    Nigelb said:

    This suggests why we rely to such a foolish extent on foreign investment.
    Why are we allowing overseas investors to buy boring old utilities, for example, when they would be a very good vehicle for relatively low risk, inflation protected investment ?

    Folk in the UK put £103bln into ISAs last year, £69.5bln of that (approx 2/3rds) went into cash ISAs...essentially, guaranteeing a near-zero, if not negative, real return on those funds over the next year...so much more financial education needed across the board...
    https://x.com/MrMBrown/status/1968904613987279317

    Dividends would remain onshore, rather than adding to our long term balance of payments deficit.

    Because we (for various values of "we") decided we would rather have the cash upfront.
    Cash ISAs are covered by the FSCS, share ISAs aren't.
    For most people your ISA is primarily your emergency fund. It's quite unusual to be making serious long-term investments; rarer still to be maxing out your allowance. That explains why most of it is cash ISA I think.
    Fair enough, given that a scarily huge number of people don't even have an emergency fund, which cash ISAs ought to be good for. 20k a year is fairly easy if and only if you have a paid-off mortgage, in which case cash savings aren't really the point... But good luck politically changing that.

    And the loss aversion thing is strong, which limits us all.
    I would argue that the FCA, knowing people were burnt by endowment mortgages, with profits bonds and high commissions, are now too risk averse. “Do you really want to risk your money in the stock market? You will probably lose money, but if you make money, it will all disappear in charges.” In addition, too many people don’t appreciate the difference in risk between a diversified asset allocation and a single company share. No wonder people leave their money in bank accounts.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,423
    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    I remember my (theoretically) prestigious .ac.uk workplace being quite distressed when they found out that the reason the students gave better ratings to the nearby former 'polytechnic' was because it was on the main bus routes.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    edited September 19

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She's running...

    @acyn.bsky.social‬

    AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.

    https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lz7bfj4map2q

    Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
    Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
    Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
    Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.

    That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.

    I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.

    Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
    The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.

    Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
    I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
    I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
    Agreed.

    The funny thing is that I occupy both ends of that argument - there are people who I see who will always pay (although granted 3 of them are billionaires) and others where I always pay.

    The rest of the time it's usually turn and turn about - especially for people who you see fairly frequently.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,516

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She's running...

    @acyn.bsky.social‬

    AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.

    https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lz7bfj4map2q

    Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
    Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
    Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
    Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.

    That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.

    I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.

    Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
    The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.

    Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
    I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
    I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
    Agreed.
    There you go. I knew we could on something.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,778
    ohnotnow said:

    The header reminds me of the old Glasgow joke of "When neds die, they come back as seagulls. When seagulls die they come back as wasps. When wasps die they come back as tories."

    When Tories die, they come back as Reform supporters.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,099
    FPT:

    Good afternoon

    Reading this thread is depressing as we see all that that was dear to us being challenged by extreme views that leave me cold and wondering how and when we may see a return to a more content and less divisive society but it is thought provoking that I do not expect it in my lifetime

    My wife lost her dear cousin this morning in the north of Scotland and we are struggling to come to terms that we are unlikely to attend her funeral due to our own health issues

    As you grow older you gain wisdom, but ageing does not come alone and I always say to follow your dreams and do not delay for we know not what comes along tomorrow

    Im sorry for your wife's loss Big G. My condolences
    Mine too, @Big_G_NorthWales . Sympathy & empathy.

    I don't know if it helps, but some places do video links (for all I know it could be all of them) - and it may be worth explaining your likely non-attendance, and ask if that could be possible if it would be helpful.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,516
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Is your daughter settling in ok at St Andrews?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,078
    edited September 19
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    With him, I think definitely generalist. Though he may disagree.

    So Durham fits on both counts. But his top choice is the lesser of the two Oxbridge institutions. Which also fits on both counts for Geography but doesn’t hold the same romance as returning to the grandparental courtship site.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Geography, of course. Like his father, his grandfather, his uncle and his geography teaching grandmother (who met his grandfather studying geography at Durham).
    I should also ask which college - I would avoid Van Mildert and St Aidan’s Colleges because of https://www.palatinate.org.uk/undergraduate-relocation-to-ustinov-sparks-concern-among-local-residents-and-students/
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,781
    edited September 19
    ...
    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She's running...

    @acyn.bsky.social‬

    AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.

    https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lz7bfj4map2q

    Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
    Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
    Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
    Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.

    That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.

    I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.

    Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
    The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.

    Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
    I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
    I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
    Agreed.

    The funny thing is that I occupy both ends of that argument - there are people who I see who will always pay (although granted 3 of them are billionaires) and others where I always pay.

    The rest of the time it's usually turn and turn about - especially for people who you see fairly frequently.
    I don't mind someone else paying the whole bill. I don't even mind the other party doing the tip if I'm buying. I just *hate* the whole dividing up thing, especially 'who had this thing' conversations. Cringe. How can people ruin a good time like that?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Geography, of course. Like his father, his grandfather, his uncle and his geography teaching grandmother (who met his grandfather studying geography at Durham).
    I’m imagining a big TimS family gathering before navigation systems where everyone turns up late having got lost unable to read maps and red faces all round. One family member getting the car stuck in an Oxbow lake of course.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630
    edited September 19
    Foss said:

    Nigelb said:

    This suggests why we rely to such a foolish extent on foreign investment.
    Why are we allowing overseas investors to buy boring old utilities, for example, when they would be a very good vehicle for relatively low risk, inflation protected investment ?

    Folk in the UK put £103bln into ISAs last year, £69.5bln of that (approx 2/3rds) went into cash ISAs...essentially, guaranteeing a near-zero, if not negative, real return on those funds over the next year...so much more financial education needed across the board...
    https://x.com/MrMBrown/status/1968904613987279317

    Dividends would remain onshore, rather than adding to our long term balance of payments deficit.

    Because we (for various values of "we") decided we would rather have the cash upfront.
    Cash ISAs are covered by the FSCS, share ISAs aren't.
    A lot of ISAs are held by people who don't have enough money to dabble in equities, or are too old to risk it [edit] too much. "100 minus your age" and that sort of thing.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    ...

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She's running...

    @acyn.bsky.social‬

    AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.

    https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lz7bfj4map2q

    Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
    Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
    Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
    Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.

    That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.

    I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.

    Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
    The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.

    Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
    I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
    I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
    Agreed.

    The funny thing is that I occupy both ends of that argument - there are people who I see who will always pay (although granted 3 of them are billionaires) and others where I always pay.

    The rest of the time it's usually turn and turn about - especially for people who you see fairly frequently.
    I don't mind someone else paying the whole bill. I don't even mind the other party doing the tip if I'm buying. I just *hate* the whole dividing up thing, especially 'who had this thing' conversations. Cringe. How can people ruin a good time like that?
    I think it's an age (and lack of money thing). When poor I was watching every penny so I would be splitting things up and arguing - now i'm going to quickly grab and pay the bill to avoid the conversation.

    That then shifts the relationship into either the bill being paid in whole turn by turn or depending me continuing to pay (based on their finances and how much I like them)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219
    edited September 19
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Geography, of course. Like his father, his grandfather, his uncle and his geography teaching grandmother (who met his grandfather studying geography at Durham).
    I should also ask which college - I would avoid Van Mildert and St Aidan’s Colleges because of https://www.palatinate.org.uk/undergraduate-relocation-to-ustinov-sparks-concern-among-local-residents-and-students/
    I like the old ones in the Bailey. His grandfather was at St Cuthberts but that doesn’t seem to have much accommodation actually on the central site. He’s not decided yet. A colleague’s sister (who’s a theologian there) has recommended St Chads.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Geography, of course. Like his father, his grandfather, his uncle and his geography teaching grandmother (who met his grandfather studying geography at Durham).
    I’m imagining a big TimS family gathering before navigation systems where everyone turns up late having got lost unable to read maps and red faces all round. One family member getting the car stuck in an Oxbow lake of course.
    We’re all pretty shit at orientation it’s true. Quite good at geoguessr though.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    Carnyx said:

    Foss said:

    Nigelb said:

    This suggests why we rely to such a foolish extent on foreign investment.
    Why are we allowing overseas investors to buy boring old utilities, for example, when they would be a very good vehicle for relatively low risk, inflation protected investment ?

    Folk in the UK put £103bln into ISAs last year, £69.5bln of that (approx 2/3rds) went into cash ISAs...essentially, guaranteeing a near-zero, if not negative, real return on those funds over the next year...so much more financial education needed across the board...
    https://x.com/MrMBrown/status/1968904613987279317

    Dividends would remain onshore, rather than adding to our long term balance of payments deficit.

    Because we (for various values of "we") decided we would rather have the cash upfront.
    Cash ISAs are covered by the FSCS, share ISAs aren't.
    A lot of ISAs are held by people who don't have enough money to dabble in equities, or are too old to risk it [edit] too much. "100 minus your age" and that sort of thing.
    There are plenty of reasons, sure.
    But the bottom line is that we’re crap as a nation at investing. And successive governments have contributed to making that worse, not better.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
    What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.

    We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.

    The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.

    But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    Gen V season 3 is out.
    Probably not to everyone’s taste, but I am enjoying it a lot.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521

    ...

    eek said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She's running...

    @acyn.bsky.social‬

    AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.

    https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lz7bfj4map2q

    Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
    Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
    Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
    Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.

    That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.

    I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.

    Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
    The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.

    Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
    I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
    I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
    Agreed.

    The funny thing is that I occupy both ends of that argument - there are people who I see who will always pay (although granted 3 of them are billionaires) and others where I always pay.

    The rest of the time it's usually turn and turn about - especially for people who you see fairly frequently.
    I don't mind someone else paying the whole bill. I don't even mind the other party doing the tip if I'm buying. I just *hate* the whole dividing up thing, especially 'who had this thing' conversations. Cringe. How can people ruin a good time like that?
    I get a bit miffed on big dinners/lunches when the bill comes and someone who has been out with us many times says “but I only had three glasses of wine” - they know we are massive piss artists and the booze will be heavy so the whole situation is a fun wild boozy session. You know what was going to happen, you enjoyed and came for the laughs and fun, what do you expect.

    Generally when we start buying silly drinks, expensive cognacs etc or penalty drinks, you take it separate from the bill on your own account, but wine over the meal is just how it is.
  • boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Geography, of course. Like his father, his grandfather, his uncle and his geography teaching grandmother (who met his grandfather studying geography at Durham).
    I’m imagining a big TimS family gathering before navigation systems where everyone turns up late having got lost unable to read maps and red faces all round. One family member getting the car stuck in an Oxbow lake of course.
    The geography teaching at my school was notoriously bad. Every week we would set off in the direction of double maths yet somehow end up playing snooker in the local golf club bar.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,725
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
    That’s quite an impressive misspelling of Gobekli Tepe!

    But thanks, nonetheless
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,423

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
    What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.

    We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.

    The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.

    But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
    If you haven't seen it - I found this quite interesting :

    https://chatgpt.com/use-cases/students

    100 chats for college students

    "These chats were made by students, for students. Learn new things, start a career, and navigate life more confidently."
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630
    edited September 19

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    Ooh, that's interesting. I've got her books: most memorable, perhaps, and sadly, on the investigation of the mass murders in the Balkans.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1lR6sZvjRZQXN1MJwMQVfX2/how-a-life-surrounded-by-death-helped-one-of-the-world-s-leading-forensic-scientists-to-find-the-burning-light-of-humanity

    The painting seems to me very much in the tradition of showing the professor with her subject matter. Though more discreet, and, interestingly, more enigmatic - appropriately so - than the old paintings of public dissections.

    I'm reminded of this a bit ... Mrs T's tutor at Somerville College, Univ. Oxon, IIRC.

    https://www.npg.org.uk/schools-hub/dorothy-crowfoot-hodgkin-by-maggi-hambling

    But for another example - Jenner with the cow that [edit] indirectly provided his substrate for vaccination, via the milkmaid.

    https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw03459/Edward-Jenner
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,078
    edited September 19

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.

    Asking academics where they think is good is slightly different as they are looking at the academic output of different institutions from the eye of people who do this for a living constantly reading new papers. When I was in academia, I could tell you the best 4-5 places for my research topic based on consistent quality high quality output and I could tell you the bullshitters.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,845
    The "Caught Stealing" film - I don't know how it was a 15 with the amount of violence it features. Should definitely be an 18.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    edited September 19
    TimS said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Geography, of course. Like his father, his grandfather, his uncle and his geography teaching grandmother (who met his grandfather studying geography at Durham).
    I should also ask which college - I would avoid Van Mildert and St Aidan’s Colleges because of https://www.palatinate.org.uk/undergraduate-relocation-to-ustinov-sparks-concern-among-local-residents-and-students/
    I like the old ones in the Bailey. His grandfather was at St Cuthberts but that doesn’t seem to have much accommodation actually on the central site. He’s not decided yet. A colleague’s sister (who’s a theologian there) has recommended St Chads.
    I would avoid Castle, it's blooming freezing and there is no guarantee you will get in to the castle. Had I not taken a year out I would have gone to St Johns...

  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    Andy_JS said:

    The "Caught Stealing" film - I don't know how it was a 15 with the amount of violence it features. Should definitely be an 18.

    Please tell me they use Jane’s’ Addiction, “been caught stealing” on the soundtrack.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219
    eek said:

    TimS said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Geography, of course. Like his father, his grandfather, his uncle and his geography teaching grandmother (who met his grandfather studying geography at Durham).
    I should also ask which college - I would avoid Van Mildert and St Aidan’s Colleges because of https://www.palatinate.org.uk/undergraduate-relocation-to-ustinov-sparks-concern-among-local-residents-and-students/
    I like the old ones in the Bailey. His grandfather was at St Cuthberts but that doesn’t seem to have much accommodation actually on the central site. He’s not decided yet. A colleague’s sister (who’s a theologian there) has recommended St Chads.
    I would avoid Castle, it's blooming freezing and there is no guarantee you will get in to the castle. Had I not taken a year out I would have gone to St Johns...

    Where were you?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Geography, of course. Like his father, his grandfather, his uncle and his geography teaching grandmother (who met his grandfather studying geography at Durham).
    I’m imagining a big TimS family gathering before navigation systems where everyone turns up late having got lost unable to read maps and red faces all round. One family member getting the car stuck in an Oxbow lake of course.
    The geography teaching at my school was notoriously bad. Every week we would set off in the direction of double maths yet somehow end up playing snooker in the local golf club bar.
    That would be sports at my school. Set off on the cross country route calling in at house 1 or house 2 to avoid the (3) loops and then return back to school as the tail runners started the short return leg.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425
    edited September 19
    TimS said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    eek said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    Out of interest what’s he looking to study?
    Geography, of course. Like his father, his grandfather, his uncle and his geography teaching grandmother (who met his grandfather studying geography at Durham).
    I should also ask which college - I would avoid Van Mildert and St Aidan’s Colleges because of https://www.palatinate.org.uk/undergraduate-relocation-to-ustinov-sparks-concern-among-local-residents-and-students/
    I like the old ones in the Bailey. His grandfather was at St Cuthberts but that doesn’t seem to have much accommodation actually on the central site. He’s not decided yet. A colleague’s sister (who’s a theologian there) has recommended St Chads.
    I would avoid Castle, it's blooming freezing and there is no guarantee you will get in to the castle. Had I not taken a year out I would have gone to St Johns...

    Where were you?
    I actually went to Kings College (Newcastle). The more recent advice comes from twin A who is part of couple of durham student associations because technically she is a undergraduate student in Durham (albeit a degree apprenticeship that has nothing to do with Durham University).
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,219
    edited September 19
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
    That’s quite an impressive misspelling of Gobekli Tepe!

    But thanks, nonetheless
    I’ll excuse myself the teppe misspelling as that’s the surname of someone I know, but the Gobelike is inexcusable as I could simply have opened the book I’ve just finished and looked.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,690
    Nigelb said:

    Gen V season 3 is out.
    Probably not to everyone’s taste, but I am enjoying it a lot.

    (Edit 2 not 3)

    Also, Hamish Linklater is a deserving heir to Alan Rickman’s crown as king of deadpan sarcastic villains.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,078
    edited September 19

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I think such a survey is useful for the reasons you give as a method to see what is working and what isn't, I just don't think it really should be a core part of the UK rankings as even if people go and see friends at other universities etc, they aren't getting the birds eye view of the playing field.

    Its a bit like asking people about the NHS. If you don't spend a stupid amount of time accessing and across loads of different venues, it is difficult to know what you should expect, what is excellent care and what isn't. My father had several years in hospitals, both NHS and private, and I got to see a lot and I wouldn't have known half the stuff if that hadn't happened.

    Some things that can seem really annoying aren't bad practice or the NHS "failing", and something absolutely are. But if you only visited a hospital once or twice in your life, you wouldn't have the clue about which is which...then you fill a survey in.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foss said:

    Nigelb said:

    This suggests why we rely to such a foolish extent on foreign investment.
    Why are we allowing overseas investors to buy boring old utilities, for example, when they would be a very good vehicle for relatively low risk, inflation protected investment ?

    Folk in the UK put £103bln into ISAs last year, £69.5bln of that (approx 2/3rds) went into cash ISAs...essentially, guaranteeing a near-zero, if not negative, real return on those funds over the next year...so much more financial education needed across the board...
    https://x.com/MrMBrown/status/1968904613987279317

    Dividends would remain onshore, rather than adding to our long term balance of payments deficit.

    Because we (for various values of "we") decided we would rather have the cash upfront.
    Cash ISAs are covered by the FSCS, share ISAs aren't.
    A lot of ISAs are held by people who don't have enough money to dabble in equities, or are too old to risk it [edit] too much. "100 minus your age" and that sort of thing.
    There are plenty of reasons, sure.
    But the bottom line is that we’re crap as a nation at investing. And successive governments have contributed to making that worse, not better.
    I don't know. What with ISAs on platforms such as A J Bell it seems much easier to invest in shares than ever before. I certainly find this easier than dealing direct with shares or unit trusts.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I think the survey is useful for the reasons you give, I just don't think it really should be a core part of the UK rankings.
    It’s only one element of the rankings though. And I think it does have value to students choosing courses, which is really what the rankings are about.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 30,099
    edited September 19
    FPT:

    isam said:

    As well as being a vegetarian who eats meat, as it Keir is now an atheist and a Christian. He was literally too scared to say he was an atheist in front of Trump, what a gutless fool he really is

    “I was christened. So that is my church – has been all my life.”
    ~ Keir Starmer.

    Yet, in 2021 he said, “I am not of faith, I don’t believe in God.”

    He’s a conveyor belt of disingenuous comments.


    https://x.com/jamesmelville/status/1968964615905100019?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    But is he a Protestant Atheist, to be sure?
    I can't recall. Was it here or elsewhere? I think in this country you can (somehow) be both.
    I'm an atheist. Blackness awaits me (finally a chance to catch up on some sleep!). But my wife is CoE and we go to Church and I help out at the local Christian charity.......

    I am an atheist..... but.........
    I think our religion hasn't taken on the nationalistic leanings the United States has, and the level of grift that so called 'pastors' in the US has. Supply Side Jesus is a wholly US idea, that I think hasn't imported at all in the UK.
    I'm not sure what Supply Side Jesus says, whether it is Reaganish or Trumpish.

    BUT I think that Reform may pick up some economics from the USA, as it is different to the Tories, and some will be coming in through National Conservatism.

    Here's an interesting interview with Miriam Cates I listened to (along with Danny Kruger they are were the two Tory Natcon MPs). Interesting points:

    1 - She went so far as to call Margaret Thatcher 'not a Conservative', on the basis that Maggie believed in liberal internationised economics, which is aiui as the NatCons / Maga in the USA have vehemently rejected "neoliberalism". So I think she's got some of it from there, having picked up National Conservatism somewhere.

    2 - It seems Cates went straight from no-politics to "stood for but didn't win a Council seat" to "became a Conservative MP" between 2018 and 2019. So she has little long term background.

    3 - The interview is with Affinity, which is with a conservative evangelical network (with members such as the Evangelical Movement of Wales, and Federation of Independent Evangelical Churches, so there's no gotcha questioning and she is straightforward about the basis of her opinions.

    Interesting, even if we agree or disagree. The second half is an illuminating conversation about teaching, trans and her take, shorn of shouting. She basically liked the guidance published by the previous Government but would go further.

    She says that the issue that got her the most flak was her suggestion that women often prefer to stay at home with their children for the first 2-3 years for bonding, rather than having care from the age of one.

    https://www.affinity.org.uk/podcast/faith-in-public-life-with-former-mp-miriam-cates/
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,390
    edited September 19
    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    Ooh, that's interesting. I've got her books: most memorable, perhaps, and sadly, on the investigation of the mass murders in the Balkans.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1lR6sZvjRZQXN1MJwMQVfX2/how-a-life-surrounded-by-death-helped-one-of-the-world-s-leading-forensic-scientists-to-find-the-burning-light-of-humanity

    The painting seems to me very much in the tradition of showing the professor with her subject matter. Though more discreet, and, interestingly, more enigmatic - appropriately so - than the old paintings of public dissections.

    I'm reminded of this a bit ... Mrs T's tutor at Somerville College, Univ. Oxon, IIRC.

    https://www.npg.org.uk/schools-hub/dorothy-crowfoot-hodgkin-by-maggi-hambling

    But for another example - Jenner with the cow that [edit] indirectly provided his substrate for vaccination, via the milkmaid.

    https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw03459/Edward-Jenner
    I’m afraid bimbo that I am my main knowledge of her is interviews on the radio including Desert Island Discs, and a chat or two with the artist. She struck me as someone who has thought deeply about her work, and her dead but still human subjects.
    Ken is extremely knowledgeable about the history and tradition of art, I’m sure he would be aware of the examples you mention.

    Edit: he has an exhibition of prints currently in Glasgow with a Hebridean bent if you’re passing through.

    https://shop.glasgowprintstudio.co.uk/artists/34-ken-currie/exhibitions/
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,486
    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foss said:

    Nigelb said:

    This suggests why we rely to such a foolish extent on foreign investment.
    Why are we allowing overseas investors to buy boring old utilities, for example, when they would be a very good vehicle for relatively low risk, inflation protected investment ?

    Folk in the UK put £103bln into ISAs last year, £69.5bln of that (approx 2/3rds) went into cash ISAs...essentially, guaranteeing a near-zero, if not negative, real return on those funds over the next year...so much more financial education needed across the board...
    https://x.com/MrMBrown/status/1968904613987279317

    Dividends would remain onshore, rather than adding to our long term balance of payments deficit.

    Because we (for various values of "we") decided we would rather have the cash upfront.
    Cash ISAs are covered by the FSCS, share ISAs aren't.
    A lot of ISAs are held by people who don't have enough money to dabble in equities, or are too old to risk it [edit] too much. "100 minus your age" and that sort of thing.
    There are plenty of reasons, sure.
    But the bottom line is that we’re crap as a nation at investing. And successive governments have contributed to making that worse, not better.
    I agree. And simple investing should be easy.

    For example, the widespread availability of cheap equity trackers means you need to know very little to invest. Choose a geography (global, UK, Europe etc) and invest. And if your risk appetite is lower, simply diluting equities with money market funds has a similar result to more complex investment styles.

    I'm not claiming the above is 'optimal' and many more sophisticated strategies are available for more knowledgeable investors. But it's definitely better than individuals stock picking themselves, sticking it all in cash ISAs or buy to let mortgages.

    We need to make investing less scary. And once that is embedded then we can take things a step further.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,725
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Is your daughter settling in ok at St Andrews?
    She is, quite satisfyingly. Thankyou. She loves it, I think - so far...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 88,078
    edited September 19

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I think the survey is useful for the reasons you give, I just don't think it really should be a core part of the UK rankings.
    It’s only one element of the rankings though. And I think it does have value to students choosing courses, which is really what the rankings are about.
    Personally, I would have the two things separate. Same with inclusion (which Guardian uprates a lot) about the value added i.e. if you enter university with poorer A-Levels but then get a 1st / 2:1, that gets more cookies regardless of where it was awarded from. But as you and I know, the "grade" given by a university is significantly weighted against your peers (yes I know academics check with one another about quality of courses / assessments etc).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630
    edited September 19

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    Ooh, that's interesting. I've got her books: most memorable, perhaps, and sadly, on the investigation of the mass murders in the Balkans.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/1lR6sZvjRZQXN1MJwMQVfX2/how-a-life-surrounded-by-death-helped-one-of-the-world-s-leading-forensic-scientists-to-find-the-burning-light-of-humanity

    The painting seems to me very much in the tradition of showing the professor with her subject matter. Though more discreet, and, interestingly, more enigmatic - appropriately so - than the old paintings of public dissections.

    I'm reminded of this a bit ... Mrs T's tutor at Somerville College, Univ. Oxon, IIRC.

    https://www.npg.org.uk/schools-hub/dorothy-crowfoot-hodgkin-by-maggi-hambling

    But for another example - Jenner with the cow that [edit] indirectly provided his substrate for vaccination, via the milkmaid.

    https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw03459/Edward-Jenner
    I’m afraid bimbo that I am my main knowledge of her is interviews on the radio including Desert Island Discs, and a chat or two with the artist. She struck me as someone who has thought deeply about her work, and her dead but still human subjects.
    Ken is extremely knowledgeable about the history and tradition of art, I’m sure he would be aware of the examples you mention.

    Edit: he has an exhibition of prints currently in Glasgow with a Hebridean bent if you’re passing through.

    https://shop.glasgowprintstudio.co.uk/artists/34-ken-currie/exhibitions/
    Oh, that's interesting - quite a variety of work too including earlier portraits of scientists/medics. The oncologists look to me like the glowing markers used in cytology. Edit: but maybe that is the individual viewer rather than the artist!

    https://artuk.org/discover/stories/ken-curries-uncanny-bodies
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,845
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Is your daughter settling in ok at St Andrews?
    She is, quite satisfyingly. Thankyou. She loves it, I think - so far...
    Did she need 3 As to get in? (If you don't mind me asking).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I think the survey is useful for the reasons you give, I just don't think it really should be a core part of the UK rankings.
    It’s only one element of the rankings though. And I think it does have value to students choosing courses, which is really what the rankings are about.
    Personally, I would have the two things separate. Same with inclusion (which Guardian uprates a lot) about the value added i.e. if you enter university with poorer A-Levels but then get a 1st / 2:1, that gets more cookies regardless of where it was awarded from. But as you and I know, the "grade" given by a university is significantly weighted against your peers (yes I know academics check with one another about quality of courses / assessments etc).
    Value added is rather tough when your intake is all AAA and above. I think unis do try to ensure consistency - the external examiner system is quite robust- but there will always be a suspicion that different places give different degrees. I’ve had people say that a 2:1 from Oxbridge is equivalent to a first elsewhere, for instance.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,405
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    For which we should all be grateful we weren’t subalterns on the Western Front in 1916…
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630
    Ratters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foss said:

    Nigelb said:

    This suggests why we rely to such a foolish extent on foreign investment.
    Why are we allowing overseas investors to buy boring old utilities, for example, when they would be a very good vehicle for relatively low risk, inflation protected investment ?

    Folk in the UK put £103bln into ISAs last year, £69.5bln of that (approx 2/3rds) went into cash ISAs...essentially, guaranteeing a near-zero, if not negative, real return on those funds over the next year...so much more financial education needed across the board...
    https://x.com/MrMBrown/status/1968904613987279317

    Dividends would remain onshore, rather than adding to our long term balance of payments deficit.

    Because we (for various values of "we") decided we would rather have the cash upfront.
    Cash ISAs are covered by the FSCS, share ISAs aren't.
    A lot of ISAs are held by people who don't have enough money to dabble in equities, or are too old to risk it [edit] too much. "100 minus your age" and that sort of thing.
    There are plenty of reasons, sure.
    But the bottom line is that we’re crap as a nation at investing. And successive governments have contributed to making that worse, not better.
    I agree. And simple investing should be easy.

    For example, the widespread availability of cheap equity trackers means you need to know very little to invest. Choose a geography (global, UK, Europe etc) and invest. And if your risk appetite is lower, simply diluting equities with money market funds has a similar result to more complex investment styles.

    I'm not claiming the above is 'optimal' and many more sophisticated strategies are available for more knowledgeable investors. But it's definitely better than individuals stock picking themselves, sticking it all in cash ISAs or buy to let mortgages.

    We need to make investing less scary. And once that is embedded then we can take things a step further.
    Nevertheless. The rules remain:

    1. Don't invest if you can't lose. (Hence my points a little earlier.)
    2. Don't invest if you don't understand it. Merely making it less scary is what con men have done throughout time. Tulips, South Sea, etc. etc.

    Of course, there's more to it than that ... but I speak as someone whose in-laws' forebears ended up with a box full of South American railway shares.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,630
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I went to a campus uni in a small town and am very glad of it - my very occasional London visits to school friends (mostly medics) were visions of hell, and not hospital A&E either. Very glad not to have been at UCL.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I still get a fit of the vapours remembering I was envious when I went to see a friend’s brother at Portsmouth - absolute dump but loved the simplicity of it - here are the uni bars and here are the bars and clubs students go to and everyone knew each other when out.

    Obviously the anonymity in London could be a lifesaver on the other hand.

    I don’t know whether it was the same for you but we had UCLH and other medical schools who used the unions so they might have got the benefits of larger universities - in halls we had the UCLH people in with us which I think was good for them, and for us for the copious quantities of drugs and recovery aids they got hold of.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,725
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Is your daughter settling in ok at St Andrews?
    She is, quite satisfyingly. Thankyou. She loves it, I think - so far...
    Did she need 3 As to get in? (If you don't mind me asking).
    Yes she did. She exceeded that by a distance. She has her issues - don’t we all - but she is extremely bright
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,725
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I went to a campus uni in a small town and am very glad of it - my very occasional London visits to school friends (mostly medics) were visions of hell, and not hospital A&E either. Very glad not to have been at UCL.
    UCL was brilliant for me. There was a huge union bar which a lot of people used. So - for me - there was the ultimate perfect combo of campus and big city - and London at that. It helped that I spent all three years in and around WC1 - you could still do it then

    I hear it has changed a lot which saddens
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,725

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
    What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.

    We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.

    The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.

    But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
    I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000

    If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,054
    So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.

    What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.

    The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521
    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I went to a campus uni in a small town and am very glad of it - my very occasional London visits to school friends (mostly medics) were visions of hell, and not hospital A&E either. Very glad not to have been at UCL.
    I was lucky at UCL as I had a bit of a blank cheque financially (my old man would question why I felt the need/ had the time outside of studying to be able to go to bars and clubs my mother would be reading about in the papers all week) and half my friends were the same but probably grim if you couldn’t live in zone 1 and be able to enjoy the smorgasbord of fun that was tempting you - inevitably you had a lot of friends who lived a million miles out and couldn’t do what the rest of the group wanted to do.

    Was a bit unnatural for students when you could just decide to roll down for lunch in soho/Fitzrovia/kings road all afternoon and enjoy all one of the greatest cities in the world was offering up and end up partying next to the Tara Palmer Tompkinson (who was an absolutely wonderful girl) crowd in the goat in boots on the kings road on a random Wednesday. As fun as it was I always feel I missed a proper “student experience”.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,496
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Well, we shall see. Much of University is social. You get away from home and the chance to have sex with lots of interesting people. You make networks that help you with your future career. You often find a spouse (I did). You get a bit of paper that allows you to proceed with a variety of careers, to the extent that they are still available for humans.

    Universities have to accept that the last point in particular is of less significance, that the value they are offering is less than it was and that they need to cut their costs. But I think the idea that they are going to disappear is pessimistic.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
    What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.

    We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.

    The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.

    But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
    I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000

    If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
    As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She's running...

    @acyn.bsky.social‬

    AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.

    https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lz7bfj4map2q

    Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
    Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
    Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
    Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.

    That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.

    I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.

    Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
    The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.

    Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
    I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
    I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
    Agreed.

    Many years back, I attended an OR conference in New Orleans. At lunch, the long table of 20+ were squabbling over the bill.

    The waitress asked me, since I was the only one not arguing, what was going on.

    I told her the literal truth - that everyone else at the table was a Professor of Mathematics.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,425

    So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.

    What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.

    The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?

    I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    eek said:

    So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.

    What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.

    The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?

    I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
    AIUI the airspace was out to sea near an Estonian island, so not quite as bad as flying over continental Estonia, but still a violation. One wonders what the point is. Surely the fact the Russia is STILL unable to defeat Ukraine should show them that they wouldn’t have a hope against NATO?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,845
    edited September 19

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She's running...

    @acyn.bsky.social‬

    AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.

    https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lz7bfj4map2q

    Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
    Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
    Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
    Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.

    That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.

    I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.

    Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
    The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.

    Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
    I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
    I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
    Agreed.

    Many years back, I attended an OR conference in New Orleans. At lunch, the long table of 20+ were squabbling over the bill.

    The waitress asked me, since I was the only one not arguing, what was going on.

    I told her the literal truth - that everyone else at the table was a Professor of Mathematics.
    Why didn't one person simply pay the bill at the time, and then everyone arrange the splits later on, (even if that was only 5 mins later).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,405
    boulay said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I still get a fit of the vapours remembering I was envious when I went to see a friend’s brother at Portsmouth - absolute dump but loved the simplicity of it - here are the uni bars and here are the bars and clubs students go to and everyone knew each other when out.

    Obviously the anonymity in London could be a lifesaver on the other hand.

    I don’t know whether it was the same for you but we had UCLH and other medical schools who used the unions so they might have got the benefits of larger universities - in halls we had the UCLH people in with us which I think was good for them, and for us for the copious quantities of drugs and recovery aids they got hold of.
    I was out in Tooting at St George's, so we could go to ULU etc, but rarely did as were self contained as a med school, but also dentists, nurses, radiographers, physios etc. The social life was based in our own union and local pubs. Lots of boozing but very little drugs, it was an expelling offence and far too risky

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Cookie said:

    Scott_xP said:

    She's running...

    @acyn.bsky.social‬

    AOC: We should be clear about who Charlie Kirk was. A man who believed that the civil rights act that granted black Americans the right to vote was a mistake… His rhetoric and beliefs were ignorant, uneducated, and sought to disenfranchise millions of Americans.

    https://bsky.app/profile/acyn.bsky.social/post/3lz7bfj4map2q

    Mm. I'm not saying she's wrong, but a right wing politician in 2020 who started a speech "Let's be clear who George Floyd was" might have found their career shortened somewhat. I'm not sure AOC is taking a route which might reassure the sort of voters whom the Dems have lost over the last decade.
    Interestingly, Charlie Kirk himself called George Floyd a 'scumbag'.
    Didn't know that but I'd have guessed it.
    Kirk's exact words were: "I am also going to offer some context and some nuance about the death of George Floyd that no one dares to say out loud. Which is that this guy was a scumbag. Now, does that mean he deserves to die? That's two totally different things — of course not." This was on Oct. 6, 2021. So over a year afterwards.

    That doesn't seem unreasonable and well after the fact.

    I believe a more legitimate criticism is he has brought up things in relation to the case that have been later found to be untrue e.g. one claim that went viral was the pregnant woman story, Floyd definitely threatened to kill a woman and held a gun to her stomach. It appears unproven if actually pregnant.

    Given the 26 billion hours of Kirk debate footage it isn't surprising that you can find something you don't like. I only had a cursory knowledge of the guy, having watched some of the footage, I find it hard to agree with lots of his very "strict" takes on things.
    The only clip of him I've seen was some hackneyed trad-macho nonsense about "only beta guys split the bill on a date." He seemed like a bit of a dick tbh. But I guess that's no barrier to maga stardom.

    Edit so as not to get cancelled - his murder was a terrible crime and a tragedy, no ifs or buts.
    I detest splitting the bill on any occasion. I just find it unspeakably crass. I have paid for dinner for six (including me) more than once to avoid it. Obviously if it's more than that my scruples have to bow to my bank balance.
    I like both paying in full and not paying at all. Worst, from an aesthetic and faff perspective, is divvying up. It's the worst sort of sterile centrism. But it's not 'beta'. That sort of alpha v beta trad-macho talk is one of the worst features of the online maga right. They think it's edgy and cool and a little bit transgressive, but it's a pile of old wank.
    Agreed.

    Many years back, I attended an OR conference in New Orleans. At lunch, the long table of 20+ were squabbling over the bill.

    The waitress asked me, since I was the only one not arguing, what was going on.

    I told her the literal truth - that everyone else at the table was a Professor of Mathematics.
    Why didn't one person simply pay the bill at the time, and then everyone arrange the splits later on, (even if that was only 5 mins later).
    I wouldn’t trust 20+ academics not to mess that up really, really badly.
  • Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I'm a Keele grad (undergraduate degree), and it was really good fun. Went to Edinburgh for my MSc and whilst it is a fantastic city and helped me move forward in my career, it was nowhere near as 'good' as Keele in the 1990s.

    No social media, £250 a term rent, cheap bars and gigs nearly every night of the week. My parents bought me a little car and bunged me £1k a term to live on, what a life.

    I really feel sorry for kids these days, they will never know such freedom unless their parents are very well to do. Also social media has absolutely ruined a lot of their fun. I've virtually no photos from any night out from that time, just good memories.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521

    eek said:

    So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.

    What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.

    The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?

    I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
    AIUI the airspace was out to sea near an Estonian island, so not quite as bad as flying over continental Estonia, but still a violation. One wonders what the point is. Surely the fact the Russia is STILL unable to defeat Ukraine should show them that they wouldn’t have a hope against NATO?
    The batshit thing is that if Trump said tomorrow that he is moving a US air wing to Estonia and any Russian planes that encroach NATO airspace will be shot down as a potential threat then the Russians would stop. So the man who hates war has in his gift a simple and punchy way to stop this instantly. Full Nixon “he’s mad enough” psychology. He won’t.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,725

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
    What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.

    We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.

    The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.

    But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
    I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000

    If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
    As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
    Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious

    I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again

    Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,845
    edited September 19
    Kafkaesque any?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/19/national-trust-gardeners-forced-out-after-clash-over-values/

    "For decades, a dedicated group of volunteer gardeners have tended to the grounds of Mottistone Manor on the Isle of Wight. Even throughout the pandemic, they planted bulbs, trimmed hedges, and cut grass at the National Trust estate.

    But the 13 volunteers say they have been forced out, without warning, by trust managers who claimed their “attitude and values” did not align with the charity’s “respectful and inclusive culture”.

    What exactly the gardeners are supposed to have done wrong has not been explained."
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,054
    eek said:

    So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.

    What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.

    The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?

    I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
    Why is that necessary?

    And surely pilots are trained to act in a certain way. Are we saying that Nato pilots are not told to shoot down Russian fighter jets if they violate airspace? It's an opportunity to eliminate three Russian fighter jets squandered.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I went to a campus uni in a small town and am very glad of it - my very occasional London visits to school friends (mostly medics) were visions of hell, and not hospital A&E either. Very glad not to have been at UCL.
    UCL was brilliant for me. There was a huge union bar which a lot of people used. So - for me - there was the ultimate perfect combo of campus and big city - and London at that. It helped that I spent all three years in and around WC1 - you could still do it then

    I hear it has changed a lot which saddens
    Ah yes. UCL Union - a stack of bars. The memories of Cocktail Night. On a hot summers night, the central staircase was sometimes a waterfall of spilt Blue Lagoon…

    Dionysus (aka Dialysis) Kebab resteraunt on Tottenham Court Road… a bag of beer after hours if they liked you.

    The interesting bars in basements along Hanway Street.

    The Hundred Club being anarchic.

    The Phoenix Theatre bar. That lasted until the owner literally fell off his bar stool at the French wine bar in Lichfield Street.

    The basement bar under Venus Videos in Soho. That opened at 3am

    All these moments lost in time, like condensation on your anorak at the end of Wigan pier. Time for tea…
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
    What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.

    We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.

    The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.

    But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
    I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000

    If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
    As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
    Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious

    I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again

    Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
    You have a very narrow view of university life. Hardly surprising as no doubt you drank and drugged your way through and pulled all-nighters on the odd essay needed to scrape a 2:1 on an arts degree.
    The world of work is changing and so Universities will adapt what they are teaching. No doubt some will struggle, but that’s always been the case. Some may go entirely or we may see more mergers, but you are probably way off bea.

    You are also (a) spectacularly arrogant (b) usually looking to wings people up for fun and (c) being weirdly stalked by someone who copies your ideas.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,725
    The USA is not in a UK-style economic downturn. And yet

    “Young Graduates Are Facing an Employment Crisis
    Slow hiring is especially daunting for those just starting out; ‘Right now, I’m pretending employment doesn’t exist’”

    https://www.wsj.com/economy/jobs/jobs-unemployment-rise-young-people-ce4704d8

    Pretending this isn’t happening so we can pretend higher education is fine is not going to help anyone
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    Andy_JS said:

    Kafkaesque any?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/19/national-trust-gardeners-forced-out-after-clash-over-values/

    "For decades, a dedicated group of volunteer gardeners have tended to the grounds of Mottistone Manor on the Isle of Wight. Even throughout the pandemic, they planted bulbs, trimmed hedges, and cut grass at the National Trust estate.

    But the 13 volunteers say they have been forced out, without warning, by trust managers who claimed their “attitude and values” did not align with the charity’s “respectful and inclusive culture”.

    What exactly the gardeners are supposed to have done wrong has not been explained."

    They probably think men cannot become women.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300
    Andy_JS said:

    Kafkaesque any?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/19/national-trust-gardeners-forced-out-after-clash-over-values/

    "For decades, a dedicated group of volunteer gardeners have tended to the grounds of Mottistone Manor on the Isle of Wight. Even throughout the pandemic, they planted bulbs, trimmed hedges, and cut grass at the National Trust estate.

    But the 13 volunteers say they have been forced out, without warning, by trust managers who claimed their “attitude and values” did not align with the charity’s “respectful and inclusive culture”.

    What exactly the gardeners are supposed to have done wrong has not been explained."

    There is a species of manager who hates volunteerism, especially in charities for some reason.

    They will delight in forcing out long standing arrangements like this, to replace them with paid workers they can manage.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,405

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I'm a Keele grad (undergraduate degree), and it was really good fun. Went to Edinburgh for my MSc and whilst it is a fantastic city and helped me move forward in my career, it was nowhere near as 'good' as Keele in the 1990s.

    No social media, £250 a term rent, cheap bars and gigs nearly every night of the week. My parents bought me a little car and bunged me £1k a term to live on, what a life.

    I really feel sorry for kids these days, they will never know such freedom unless their parents are very well to do. Also social media has absolutely ruined a lot of their fun. I've virtually no photos from any night out from that time, just good memories.
    Yes, my friend there did very well out of it. She didn't have any A,levels, just a dodgy BTec in Engineering and got in on an Access course and now is prof in a major university.

    I really enjoyed getting up there for weekends every couple of months (she was going out with a school friend of mine, a tractor mechanic).

    I wouldn't look too closely at rankings, as these vary from course to course in any case. Choosing a university is also about looking at many other issues. Fox Jr got accepted for Durham but chose UEA over it as he preferred Norwich, and had a pretty good time there, after a rough first year needing a fair bit of support. He made the right choice, I am sure.

  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,521

    Leon said:

    Carnyx said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I went to a campus uni in a small town and am very glad of it - my very occasional London visits to school friends (mostly medics) were visions of hell, and not hospital A&E either. Very glad not to have been at UCL.
    UCL was brilliant for me. There was a huge union bar which a lot of people used. So - for me - there was the ultimate perfect combo of campus and big city - and London at that. It helped that I spent all three years in and around WC1 - you could still do it then

    I hear it has changed a lot which saddens
    Ah yes. UCL Union - a stack of bars. The memories of Cocktail Night. On a hot summers night, the central staircase was sometimes a waterfall of spilt Blue Lagoon…

    Dionysus (aka Dialysis) Kebab resteraunt on Tottenham Court Road… a bag of beer after hours if they liked you.

    The interesting bars in basements along Hanway Street.

    The Hundred Club being anarchic.

    The Phoenix Theatre bar. That lasted until the owner literally fell off his bar stool at the French wine bar in Lichfield Street.

    The basement bar under Venus Videos in Soho. That opened at 3am

    All these moments lost in time, like condensation on your anorak at the end of Wigan pier. Time for tea…
    Ha memories, the kebab place you mentioned too. If we were in the Union it was the top floor with the weird kilted soldier statue. The second floor was the sports teams and that nightclub I can’t remember the name of. Ground floor was a boring bar/coffee bar. ULU was ok for gigs and things like the Super Bowl. Sometimes we would endure the Windeyer which I think was a UCLH bar - good for watching rugby as a big screen and a very wide bar.

    Trying to remember the pub we used to go for lock ins at over Euston road, think it was something like the Lord Rodney’s head, the landlord only had one arm and was a proper bruiser even with just the one punching hand.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,316

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I'm a Keele grad (undergraduate degree), and it was really good fun. Went to Edinburgh for my MSc and whilst it is a fantastic city and helped me move forward in my career, it was nowhere near as 'good' as Keele in the 1990s.

    No social media, £250 a term rent, cheap bars and gigs nearly every night of the week. My parents bought me a little car and bunged me £1k a term to live on, what a life.

    I really feel sorry for kids these days, they will never know such freedom unless their parents are very well to do. Also social media has absolutely ruined a lot of their fun. I've virtually no photos from any night out from that time, just good memories.
    That bung would be £6k per year in today's money. That would have cheered up my time at uni significantly. (Among my friends there was seemingly no correlation between household income and such bungs or their absence. Not that I'm bitter.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 57,300

    eek said:

    So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.

    What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.

    The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?

    I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
    Why is that necessary?

    And surely pilots are trained to act in a certain way. Are we saying that Nato pilots are not told to shoot down Russian fighter jets if they violate airspace? It's an opportunity to eliminate three Russian fighter jets squandered.
    Since the start of the Cold War, the Russians have always tried to shoot down any plane they felt was violating their airspace.

    NATO policy was always to escort and be polite.

    In one incident, a Russian patrol bomber, carrying nuclear weapons, landed at an American airbase in Alaska, lost.

    The Americans gave them heaters, blankets and food overnight. Then gave them a full load of fuel to get home in the morning.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,485
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    I imagine it's largely the video game education that they provide? The art school also has a decent rep I think.
    A bit niche but they always seem to be the go-to on archeology and crime docs when they need bones studied and skulls “brought to life” so they are either great at forensic archaeology or a bit twisted.
    Down to Sue Black probably who was prof of forensic anthropology and anatomy in Dundee for 15 years. My pal painted this portrait of her.


    It’s one of those weird choices for kids which a lot don’t have access to school insight to at deep levels - a lot of the time the best university isn’t “the best university”. In my case the career I wanted (at the time) made sense to go to UCL as it was the best place to do it and also had the benefit of being a top university but I can see how often people miss out on a career course (for want of a better way of putting it) because nobody is there to tell them that actually, if you want to do forensic archeology you are best going to Dundee.

    I’m hoping that these days with the internet students can research it themselves and find best options but I imagine there are still plenty going for bigger name universities and then losing out on specialised jobs to people who had the info on where was a good conveyor belt.

    Back in the mists of time, when maths was witchfraft and magic, I remember Warwick being considered one of the best in the world for certain “types” of maths courses but people insisting on going to Oxford or Cambridge for the cachet, which is fair enough, but it does end up warping the system.
    My son’s going through his applications for a second time at the moment (he applied last year, got his A levels and decided on a gap year) and it’s interesting how his assumptions about where’s good are very different to mine, based on his reading of actual subject rankings.

    He’s just been to the Durham open day and I’m on the LNER to join him. It was second on his list but perhaps it should leapfrog to the top.
    I guess it comes down to a decision where if you want a career where it’s specialist then choose the best ranked global course you can get on, if you want to come out from university as a generalist/jack of all trades to get a broad swathe of careers then go for the “best” university, so prestige, you can.

    Ultimately for generalist situations employers will look at how difficult it is to get into that university as it says enough about academic ability even if not directly relevant.

    If your son thinks he might want to work globally then you start looking and considering which are the UK (assuming he will study in the UK) which are recognised as top unis globally.
    Its worth nothing that global rankings work quite differently from UK rankings in that a huge amount of emphasis is put upon research output i.e. UK Rankings are much more centred on what as an undergraduate what you will get out of studying at a particular university, the Global ones are much more about what is the standing of the University doing novel research i.e. as a Phd / Post-doc if you are going somewhere that has top tier research output.

    It is why you will see some UK universities very high on the Global rankings, far above their relevant position to other UK universities on the UK rankings.
    It also tends to have survey input such as asking academics ‘which places around the world are goo’d’.

    Take everything with a pinch of salt.
    I do have a particular issue with including student satisfaction in rankings, a) they have no real comparator to go against and b) the nudge is to make university as easy and fluffy as possible as you don't want your undergraduates thinking the course is too tough.
    To an extent I agree although sometimes students do get to hear about other unis and courses. Lots go on placements and meet students from other places and of course they all have friends from school. The satisfaction survey is pretty comprehensive and can flag up problems (we have an issue with feedback currently) but there is a danger of chasing the ratings a bit, rather than accepting that you cannot please everyone.
    Our students can complete surveys about each of our units and as convened it’s useful to see what’s good and what’s bad. Sometimes what one student likes, another hates. Not easy to solve that. And there is usually an issue that only those who feel strongly respond, so the gruntled middle gets unheard.
    I used to get a bit envious when I went to visit mates at universities where there was a campus or were in a small city/town as there was a very identifiable student life which you didn’t get in central London but they were always desperate to come and stay as we had the whole of London nightlife to enjoy so the grass is always greener and ultimately it can come down to individual personality where you need an element of boundaries or you can still focus with the world on your doorstep.

    It’s probably a bit “easier” in a university city or town and maybe more supportive rather than being one on ten million where your friends might need to travel for an hour on a tube to your party and all the dispersal living in a big city creates.
    I know the feeling. I was at a London medical school but used to love visiting a friend at Keele, a proper campus university with a more diverse range of studies. It felt like proper student life.

    Medical school was pretty full on, both in terms of work and also boozing. There wasn't a lot of student support in those days apart from friends in the bar and dark humour. 21 is too young to stare into the abyss of human suffering.
    I'm a Keele grad (undergraduate degree), and it was really good fun. Went to Edinburgh for my MSc and whilst it is a fantastic city and helped me move forward in my career, it was nowhere near as 'good' as Keele in the 1990s.

    No social media, £250 a term rent, cheap bars and gigs nearly every night of the week. My parents bought me a little car and bunged me £1k a term to live on, what a life.

    I really feel sorry for kids these days, they will never know such freedom unless their parents are very well to do. Also social media has absolutely ruined a lot of their fun. I've virtually no photos from any night out from that time, just good memories.
    Yes, my friend there did very well out of it. She didn't have any A,levels, just a dodgy BTec in Engineering and got in on an Access course and now is prof in a major university.

    I really enjoyed getting up there for weekends every couple of months (she was going out with a school friend of mine, a tractor mechanic).

    I wouldn't look too closely at rankings, as these vary from course to course in any case. Choosing a university is also about looking at many other issues. Fox Jr got accepted for Durham but chose UEA over it as he preferred Norwich, and had a pretty good time there, after a rough first year needing a fair bit of support. He made the right choice, I am sure.

    I did five years as a post doc in Norwich and loved it. The wife did too and would probably go back. Certainly back in my time the isolation helped as it meant all tours (bands and comics) tended to come. It had decent level football (usually championship) and close enough to some pretty good coast and the broads. As it says on the way in ‘a fine city’.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,725

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:





    Carnyx said:

    Oxford and Cambridge fall out of top three UK universities for first time
    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/education/article/oxford-cambridge-oxbridge-latest-university-news-nqfc3xmrh (£££)

    1. LSE
    2. St Andrews
    3. Durham
    4. Oxford
    5. Cambridge
    6. Imperial
    7. Bath
    8. Warwick
    9. UCL
    10. Bristol
    Amazing how little damage the whole Gaddafi thing did to LSE's reputation.
    St. Andrews will be top of the table next year, if @Leon’s daughter has her father’s elevated IQ.
    Just across the Tay from the 'dee. I hope Leon is not encouraging the carrying of knives and axes.
    Dundee did pretty well too in a recent league table (might have been the Graun one).
    Dundee does really well on student satisfaction, mainly because there is a lot of dirt cheap accommodation in the city and the social life for students is good. The scoring on the academic performance of their courses (with exceptions like medicine) is less inspiring.
    They’re all finished anyway. The universities

    I note that the Telegraph has now come round to my way of thinking

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/universities-are-doomed-but-there-is-one-silver-lining/
    Today I was reading a harrowing though at times clunkily written book called “Nuclear War: a Scenario” by Annie Jacobsen. A sort of paperback American Threads.

    Page after page of graphic detail about the unfolding of thermonuclear Armageddon. Then, randomly, 2 pages right at the end on the slimmest of premises about Gobelike Teppe. Then back to Nuclear war. And I thought of you.
    What’s really interesting to me is that despite the Kanppers Gazettes Oracle pronouncing the death of the university, not a single soul at Univerisity seems to be at all worried. We are welcoming the 2025 intake this weekend.

    We had an away day yesterday with a couple of sessions on AI. As expected the chap started with ‘the essay is dead, gone, extinct’. Because it is. Rather we need to assessments that are AI proof (short presentations, vivas) etc. And we need to train students how to use the tools AI provides.

    The world of work is being changed by AI. But then it’s always changed. When I started academic research we had two PCs for 16 people in the lab. Unthinkable now.

    But who knows, the man who discovered what3words may be right.
    I’m right. As is the telegraph columnist. Read the article. Graduate roles down from 180,000 to 55,000

    If you think this isn’t going to devastate universities you’re insane
    As others have pointed out we are in a downturn too. That’s part of the graduate roles issues.
    Yes. But as the CEO of Reed recruitment says - don’t send your kids to uni. They will get £50k debt for no reason. There are no jobs at the end. This is now painfully obvious

    I’m sorry i was right. Again. But I was right. Again

    Universities will die en masse, a few will survive as posh finishing schools
    You have a very narrow view of university life. Hardly surprising as no doubt you drank and drugged your way through and pulled all-nighters on the odd essay needed to scrape a 2:1 on an arts degree.
    The world of work is changing and so Universities will adapt what they are teaching. No doubt some will struggle, but that’s always been the case. Some may go entirely or we may see more mergers, but you are probably way off bea.

    You are also (a) spectacularly arrogant (b) usually looking to wings people up for fun and (c) being weirdly stalked by someone who copies your ideas.
    Look at yourself. Ask yourself how many young people are willing to take on £50k debt, for life, with no guarantee of a good job at the end of it. It’s a tiny proportion of the present intake - it’s basically very rich kids. And that’s ignoring all the other pressures on the uni ecosystem outlined in the article

    It’s over. A few will survive

    This is already happening. You are a feeble ostrich pretending it isn’t happening

    Personally I think the government should set up a fund which offers much smaller loans for 18-19 year olds to volunteer for a gap year abroad. A year in Africa or poor parts of Asia will teach these kids much more than a pointless year of a mediocre arts degree and it benefit other countries and our own people.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,664

    eek said:

    So three Russian MiG fighter jets enter Estonian airspace for 12 minutes and the reaction is to escort them away.

    What sort of joke is this? On what basis should they not have been shot down. It took Turkey a manner of seconds to do that to a Russian jet in 2015. If one of our fighter jets entered Russian or Chinese airspace we would expect it to be shot down.

    The drone thing is more complicated. Do you want to use expensive missiles to deal with cheap and tacky drones?

    I think you let them in once and then point out that any subsequent visits will see a different reaction...
    Why is that necessary?

    And surely pilots are trained to act in a certain way. Are we saying that Nato pilots are not told to shoot down Russian fighter jets if they violate airspace? It's an opportunity to eliminate three Russian fighter jets squandered.
    Since the start of the Cold War, the Russians have always tried to shoot down any plane they felt was violating their airspace.

    NATO policy was always to escort and be polite.

    In one incident, a Russian patrol bomber, carrying nuclear weapons, landed at an American airbase in Alaska, lost.

    The Americans gave them heaters, blankets and food overnight. Then gave them a full load of fuel to get home in the morning.
    It'd be a bit of an error to shoot down a plane carrying nukes in your own airspace.
This discussion has been closed.