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The public want Danny Kruger to trigger a by-election – politicalbetting.com

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  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,315


    Kemi Badenoch

    @KemiBadenoch

    We’re off to the state banquet!


    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1968373329540313554


    How far down the very long table are they?

    From the comments, Kemi has a lot of admirers. So why is it going so wrong?
    Because she’s a Tory at a time when nobody is listening to them.

    I am being a little flippant: she has problems with strategy, and for someone so articulate her PMQs game is shocking. She has become leader still too green, I think, and with limited party backing. But a lot of it comes down to the fact that she grasped the poison chalice (or had it thrust upon her), and it would have taken a politician of exceptional skill to drag the Tories back into contention in the current circumstances.

    I like Kemi. She had the potential to be interesting, thoughtful, different. She likely won’t get the chance to show much of that, but politics is a cruel game and much of it is being in the right place at the right time - which she isn’t.
    Her position is obviously analogous to that of Hague after 1997 - trying to keep together the shattered remnants and rebuild.

    Hague did a lot behind the scenes to reinvigorate a dilapidated election machine and headquarters but the results of that weren't evident in 2001 and to be fair there's no Tory leader who could have won that election. The one thing Hague managed was to keep the Conservatives as the credible alternative Government to Labour.

    Badenoch's position is of course many times worse - like Hague, she inherits a shattered party and a party election machine whose shortcomings were brutally exposed in 2024. Unlike Hague, Badenoch faces a credible existential threat from Reform. Maintaining the Conservatives as the credible alternative Government looks a herculean task currently with most polls suggesting, even if the party stays ahead of the LDs in terms of votes, it will fall behind in seats as it loses ground to Reform.

    The LDs have been used to irrelevance, to having very few seats - the Conservatives have always been either the party of Government or the leading Opposition. There's a very real prospect they will be neither after the next election with perhaps 30-50 seats. That is the challenge facing Badenoch currently - oddly enough, having Labour succeed and Reform fall back would be to her and her party's long term advantage.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,833
    edited September 17
    ohnotnow said:

    Cookie said:

    Ratters said:

    We have to wear our ID on a lanyard when in the office.

    But the advice is to remove it before leaving in case somebody who doesn't like the company twats you.

    Our office security passes are now available as an app on your phone. So no lanyard or physical pass needed at all.

    This was helpful in reducing the number of items I carry with me to three: phone, headphones and keys. Albeit today I forgot my keys.
    Hm. Is it a work phone? No way I'm letting my employer install software on my phone.
    "Install this app" is the curse of modern life. On a laptop, there is exactly one app I need: sone sort of web explorer. I don't see why doing anything on a phone should carry the expectation that I install a new piece of software.
    I got a new computer from work recently. It's so loaded with 'enterprise' apps that I can barely get work done. The anti-virus 'solution' alone has slowed disk access by about 10x. The pre-installed chrome extensions which I can't remove are actually flagged as security issues. And I can't install operating system updates when it's convenient - only when it is 'allowed' in some vague way (I'm guessing someone just gets back to their desk and checks a box somewhere).

    So, it's gathering dust on the shelf instead of being used.

    Which probably ticks the required enterprise security boxes. So job done I guess.
    Moore's Law: computers roughly double in power every two years.

    Writh's Law: software bloat roughly doubles every two years.

    Which of those "two years"es is slightly longer than the other is really important for our experience of using computers. Right now, I suspect that Writh is winning.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,924
    edited September 17

    Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,362

    boulay said:

    A multibillion-dollar transatlantic tech agreement announced to coincide with Donald Trump’s state visit represents “sloppy seconds from Silicon Valley”, Nick Clegg, Meta’s former president of global affairs, has said.

    The former deputy prime minister said the deals, heralded with great fanfare by the government as it tries to foster growth in the UK, were “mutton dressed as lamb” and would make the country ever more reliant on US tech firms.

    “These companies need those infrastructure resources anyway,” he said. “They’re building datacentres all over the world. Maybe they were pushed a bit forward just to meet the timetable with this week’s state visit. But … it’s all one-way traffic.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/nick-clegg-multibillion-dollar-transatlantic-tech-agreement-sloppy-seconds-from-silicon-valley

    Indeed, if anyone is going to be reliant on US tech firms then it should be, er, Nick Clegg.
    I am not sure anybody is buying Nick Clegg's sudden about turn in regards to big tech firms.
    I'm sure somebody is buying it...

    Oh, you mean in the sense of 'believing it'. Sorry - got the wrong end of the stick there...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,387
    edited September 17

    Apols to @SandyRentool for digging out an old post (from 26th July 2022!):

    "BTW, have you done the Northallerton avoiding lines and the York avoider? Both now have scheduled passenger trains over them."

    I'm sure I mentioned I did the York avoider back in January, the same day I did Ashington, but today I did the Northallerton avoider (northbound), on the direct LNER King's Cross to Middlesbrough.

    I haven't done the Northallerton avoider in either direction. And I didn't get round to going to Ashington over the summer.
  • Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
    No one would have doubted his ability to reign had he never been emperor.
    coughBoriscough

    So: does Andy have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    Does Nigel have enough self-awareness to realise this?
  • Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
    No one would have doubted his ability to reign had he never been emperor.
    coughBoriscough

    So: does Andy have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    Does Nigel have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    I think Burnham sees himself as being robbed of the leadership before, and would make a more confident candidate now. Might be a disappointing PM, but he'd probably be better than Starmer (a bar so low you couldn't limbo under it).

    If it was me, I'd stay as Absolute Ruler of Manc, but I think he will make an attempt at it. Where is the by-election win coming from, though??? Not confident of him holding off a Reform challenge in a lot of GM seats.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,472

    Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
    Such political antennae as I possess suggest to me that Burnham would not be a successful PM in current circumstances. I don't see him successfully managing to be the essence of good old Labour for those who back him but at the same time the PM of iron fiscal responsibility managing the debt/deficit/tax/spend/growth crisis.

  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    edited September 17

    Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
    No one would have doubted his ability to reign had he never been emperor.
    coughBoriscough

    So: does Andy have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    Does Nigel have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    Nobody else spring to mind?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,332

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,209
    Rupert Murdoch sitting next to McSweeny :)
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,222
    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo lives in Montana!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo went off grid, packed in commentary (outside of a couple of weeks a year) moved to a big ranch in Montana to live a quiet life with wife #27.

    Maybe he is there because he has had more wives and affairs than Trump.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,332

    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo went off grid, packed in commentary (outside of a couple of weeks a year) moved to a big ranch in Montana.
    Ok so he lives in Montana, in the US, it still makes him someone Trump will love.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo went off grid, packed in commentary (outside of a couple of weeks a year) moved to a big ranch in Montana.
    Ok so he lives in Montana, in the US, it still makes him someone Trump will love.
    He might have mellowed in his older years, but Faldo was a notoriously prickly character. Most other pros really didn't like him very much. Neither did all his ex-wives who is cheated on.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,172
    carnforth said:
    Coordinated or not, the future of the UK pharma industry is under threat.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,189
    carnforth said:
    Sales of Mounjaro are sharply down following Lillys price hike.

  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,145
    The banquet really should just have been 16 different egg courses.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,419
    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo went off grid, packed in commentary (outside of a couple of weeks a year) moved to a big ranch in Montana.
    Ok so he lives in Montana, in the US, it still makes him someone Trump will love.
    And Faldo's golf company is (or was) headquartered in Windsor, so perhaps he can call in there tomorrow and kill two birds with one stone.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,332

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo went off grid, packed in commentary (outside of a couple of weeks a year) moved to a big ranch in Montana.
    Ok so he lives in Montana, in the US, it still makes him someone Trump will love.
    And Faldo's golf company is (or was) headquartered in Windsor, so perhaps he can call in there tomorrow and kill two birds with one stone.
    Sounds like an Iranian Mullah’s wet dream.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 7,128
    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Lib Dems and Greens remarkably consistent there.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I think it just confirms what most people think that Labour has become skewed to a party whose base is the managerial class, the "process state", particularly the public sector, who have traditionally been drawn from public schools via getting into better universities and good networking.

    And Reform are hoovering up the working class where globalisation and immigration has had a huge impact, and that Labour used to be the party of.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,222

    boulay said:

    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo went off grid, packed in commentary (outside of a couple of weeks a year) moved to a big ranch in Montana.
    Ok so he lives in Montana, in the US, it still makes him someone Trump will love.
    He might have mellowed in his older years, but Faldo was a notoriously prickly character. Most other pros really didn't like him very much. Neither did all his ex-wives who is cheated on.
    It was the one he wouldn't marry that really kicked off.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,984

    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I think it just confirms what most people think that Labour has become the party of the managerial class, particularly the public sector, who have traditionally been drawn from public schools via getting into better universities and good networking.
    Depends what "managerial class" means. Do people send their kids to private school at considerable expense to see them eek out their days managing a small team at the DWP call centre? I think not.

    This poll asks far more questions than it answers.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,984

    The banquet really should just have been 16 different egg courses.

    That's funny.

    Chapeau.

    Each course would involve a $1 price increase of course.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 3,163

    Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
    No one would have doubted his ability to reign had he never been emperor.
    coughBoriscough

    So: does Andy have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    Does Nigel have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    I think Burnham sees himself as being robbed of the leadership before, and would make a more confident candidate now. Might be a disappointing PM, but he'd probably be better than Starmer (a bar so low you couldn't limbo under it).

    If it was me, I'd stay as Absolute Ruler of Manc, but I think he will make an attempt at it. Where is the by-election win coming from, though??? Not confident of him holding off a Reform challenge in a lot of GM seats.
    Must surely be a diverse inner-city seat in the region with a lot of students? No? Surely Burnham would walk a seat like that. I think I read that he won every ward in Gtr Manchester last time he was elected.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,896

    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I think it just confirms what most people think that Labour has become skewed to a party whose base is the managerial class, the "process state", particularly the public sector, who have traditionally been drawn from public schools via getting into better universities and good networking.

    And Reform are hoovering up the working class where globalisation and immigration has had a huge impact, and that Labour used to be the party of.
    Not really. The state school voting intention mirrors the general voting intention. 30% is only 30% and can’t really be described as “hoovering”.
  • isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I think it just confirms what most people think that Labour has become skewed to a party whose base is the managerial class, the "process state", particularly the public sector, who have traditionally been drawn from public schools via getting into better universities and good networking.

    And Reform are hoovering up the working class where globalisation and immigration has had a huge impact, and that Labour used to be the party of.
    Not really. The state school voting intention mirrors the general voting intention. 30% is only 30% and can’t really be described as “hoovering”.
    Not just that- grammar schools is probably a proxy for "very old", as in "went to secondary school before Thatcher was Education Secretary".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17

    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I think it just confirms what most people think that Labour has become skewed to a party whose base is the managerial class, the "process state", particularly the public sector, who have traditionally been drawn from public schools via getting into better universities and good networking.

    And Reform are hoovering up the working class where globalisation and immigration has had a huge impact, and that Labour used to be the party of.
    Not really. The state school voting intention mirrors the general voting intention. 30% is only 30% and can’t really be described as “hoovering”.
    Not just that- grammar schools is probably a proxy for "very old", as in "went to secondary school before Thatcher was Education Secretary".
    I think that is a good observation.

    Its the same issue when we have the graduate / non-graduate polling. Its is hugely skewed by percentage of different age groups who went to university.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,389
    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo, sadly, is a Trump supporter. Tbf a lot of the golfers are but most of them have the excuse of being American.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    It makes sense now...

    Sir Nick Faldo: Donald Trump always picks up when I call

    “He always calls me Nicky,” Faldo tells Telegraph Sport, explaining that the pair have struck up an unlikely bromance.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/golf/2025/06/08/sir-nick-faldo-donald-trump-always-picks-up-when-i-call/
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,984
    Has anyone in public life so looked so unhappy all the time than Marco Rubio?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    I mentioned this last night, that I got auto-played a track on YouTube that I thought was a new track by an artists, but turned out to be an AI generated song that was not only very good, but sounded indistinguishable from the actual artist.

    Of course YouTube algorithm now thinks that is all I want, so been sent down a rabbit hole and it appears there is a whole "industry" of these channels who make original AI songs using the voice of (insert well known artist in a particular genre) often collaborations that are as good as the actual artists own catalogue.

    I am surprised YouTube hasn't nerfed these channels. I would be extremely worried if I made a living out of music.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,270
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo, sadly, is a Trump supporter. Tbf a lot of the golfers are but most of them have the excuse of being American.
    At least Bubba Watson eventually covered the Confederate Flag on his original No 1 General Lee TV car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33393860

    P.S. Is it getting lonely as the only remaining socialist in the village?
  • boulay said:

    Liverpool playing it patient.

    Not by the end of the game.

    Need to shore up the defence, but in all major competitions that's now five in five that have been won with a late, late goal. Remarkable.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    edited September 17
    The (in)famous 1985 world record in the women's 400 metres of 47.60 secs could finally be broken tomorrow by Sydney McLaughlin-Levrone.

    This is the 1985 race.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIQZAq6J4ug

    Sydney M-L ran it in 48.29 secs in the semi-final yesterday.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J81FocHV8fE
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17

    Has anyone in public life so looked so unhappy all the time than Marco Rubio?

    Well Little Marco was seen as the future President once....hyped up that he was going to be the first Latino President. Now he works for the man who ridiculed him so hard that he lost all credibility.
  • Apols to @SandyRentool for digging out an old post (from 26th July 2022!):

    "BTW, have you done the Northallerton avoiding lines and the York avoider? Both now have scheduled passenger trains over them."

    I'm sure I mentioned I did the York avoider back in January, the same day I did Ashington, but today I did the Northallerton avoider (northbound), on the direct LNER King's Cross to Middlesbrough.

    I haven't done the Northallerton avoider in either direction. And I didn't get round to going to Ashington over the summer.
    Oh that's a shame, hope you can do those line soon!
  • Has anyone in public life so looked so unhappy all the time than Marco Rubio?

    Melania.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,437

    I mentioned this last night, that I got auto-played a track on YouTube that I thought was a new track by an artists, but turned out to be an AI generated song that was not only very good, but sounded indistinguishable from the actual artist.

    Of course YouTube algorithm now thinks that is all I want, so been sent down a rabbit hole and it appears there is a whole "industry" of these channels who make original AI songs using the voice of (insert well known artist in a particular genre) often collaborations that are as good as the actual artists own catalogue.

    I am surprised YouTube hasn't nerfed these channels. I would be extremely worried if I made a living out of music.

    Any link for the Radiohead one?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Thank goodness only 7% went to private schools.
  • rcs1000 said:

    I mentioned this last night, that I got auto-played a track on YouTube that I thought was a new track by an artists, but turned out to be an AI generated song that was not only very good, but sounded indistinguishable from the actual artist.

    Of course YouTube algorithm now thinks that is all I want, so been sent down a rabbit hole and it appears there is a whole "industry" of these channels who make original AI songs using the voice of (insert well known artist in a particular genre) often collaborations that are as good as the actual artists own catalogue.

    I am surprised YouTube hasn't nerfed these channels. I would be extremely worried if I made a living out of music.

    Any link for the Radiohead one?
    I think these people want to actually make money on YouTube....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 16,105

    Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
    No one would have doubted his ability to reign had he never been emperor.
    coughBoriscough

    So: does Andy have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    Does Nigel have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    I think Burnham sees himself as being robbed of the leadership before, and would make a more confident candidate now. Might be a disappointing PM, but he'd probably be better than Starmer (a bar so low you couldn't limbo under it).

    If it was me, I'd stay as Absolute Ruler of Manc, but I think he will make an attempt at it. Where is the by-election win coming from, though??? Not confident of him holding off a Reform challenge in a lot of GM seats.
    Must surely be a diverse inner-city seat in the region with a lot of students? No? Surely Burnham would walk a seat like that. I think I read that he won every ward in Gtr Manchester last time he was elected.
    Safest seats for Lab atm are:
    1) Manchester Central (I've heard it suggested Lucy Powel might be persuaded to stamd down in exchange for the mayoralty - though becoming deputy might change that).
    2) Salford (though hard to see Rebecca Long Bailey standing down)
    3) Manchester Rusholme (studenty and Muslim - might be vulnerable to any of the far lefties if onr of them can garner all the votes)
    4) Manchester Withington (not at all Reformy, though LDs might challenge)
    5) Denton and Gorton (Gorton not really Reformy though Denton mighy well be - Andrew Gwynne no longer seems to have much a future in parliament)
    6) Blackley and Middleton South (Graham Stringer surely not around much longer - might be vaguely vulnerable to Reform.
    7) Wythenshawe and Sale East (Wythenshawe may be a little Reformy for comfort, but likely to be safe).
    8) Stretford and Urmston (quite middle class but no LD tradition).
    9) Stockport (far from solidly Lab, but no obvious single challlenger)
    10) Oldham West (quite Muslim but not enough for the sectarian parties to be a threat)
    11) Bolton SE (ditto)
    12) Wigan (Reform may be interested but surely a stretch too far for them?)
    Other than that, I'd say too risky for him to consider.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    While on topic of AI music. I am intrigued by the channel that made the viral Big Ange track, it appears they pump out loads of pro-Reform tracks in a rap stylee. And they make AI gen music videos to go with them. Interested who is behind that.

    I can't see your stereo-typical ReformyGraph reading type spending their retirement doing that.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,670

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    'their'? Has he they gone non-binary?
  • While on topic of AI music. I am intrigued by the channel that made the viral Big Ange track, it appears they pump out loads of pro-Reform tracks in a rap stylee. And they make AI gen music videos to go with them. Interested who is behind that.

    I can't see your stereo-typical ReformyGraph reading type spending their retirement doing that.

    Presumably part of the point is that you don't really need anyone to do it now- just get someone to type a prompt into whatever it is and you get something reliably adequate.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,266

    boulay said:

    Liverpool playing it patient.

    Not by the end of the game.

    Need to shore up the defence, but in all major competitions that's now five in five that have been won with a late, late goal. Remarkable.
    Many, many years ago Swindon won the 4th division with a (then) record 102 points under Lou Macari. When Macari wasn’t doing dodgy financials he made his team the fittest in the league. The training was brutal amounts of running and many of the players hated it. But.
    I recall almost every game I saw Town stretched away in the last 15 minutes. Fitness coming through.
    I suspect a lot of sides are setting up for the draw against Liverpool but the superior side is getting there in the end.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,823

    I mentioned this last night, that I got auto-played a track on YouTube that I thought was a new track by an artists, but turned out to be an AI generated song that was not only very good, but sounded indistinguishable from the actual artist.

    Of course YouTube algorithm now thinks that is all I want, so been sent down a rabbit hole and it appears there is a whole "industry" of these channels who make original AI songs using the voice of (insert well known artist in a particular genre) often collaborations that are as good as the actual artists own catalogue.

    I am surprised YouTube hasn't nerfed these channels. I would be extremely worried if I made a living out of music.

    Artificial Intelligence Depeche Mode's song, originally created and uploaded from ‪@andrea_fryer‬ (3mins29secs)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3JzcTJNWr0

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506

    While on topic of AI music. I am intrigued by the channel that made the viral Big Ange track, it appears they pump out loads of pro-Reform tracks in a rap stylee. And they make AI gen music videos to go with them. Interested who is behind that.

    I can't see your stereo-typical ReformyGraph reading type spending their retirement doing that.

    I hope this doesn't kill off music produced the "traditional" way.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,984

    Has anyone in public life so looked so unhappy all the time than Marco Rubio?

    Melania.
    Laugh. Yes. But I don't really count her as in public life as she never asked for any of this shite. She thought she was marrying a hotel and golf course constructor.

    Rubio wanted this.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,077
    An extraordinary production to put on for one guest but no doubt it was done with aplomb.

    Say what you like about Sir Keir but I couldn't escape the thought of how vomit inducing it would have been had Farage been PM.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,389

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo, sadly, is a Trump supporter. Tbf a lot of the golfers are but most of them have the excuse of being American.
    At least Bubba Watson eventually covered the Confederate Flag on his original No 1 General Lee TV car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33393860

    P.S. Is it getting lonely as the only remaining socialist in the village?
    It's a tough gig atm, that's for sure. But it'll only make it better when the tide turns. As it will.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,389

    Has anyone in public life so looked so unhappy all the time than Marco Rubio?

    Well Little Marco was seen as the future President once....hyped up that he was going to be the first Latino President. Now he works for the man who ridiculed him so hard that he lost all credibility.
    Yes. But he didn't have to take the job.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    Whenever anything to do with Trump comes on the news, I switch off. Not interested. Because he's only there because of the failures of the hyper-liberals imo, and there's nothing much else to say about it really.
  • Leon said:

    I think I made a new friend tonight

    Went to the opening of a new jazz club. Met vague acquaintance. Bonded

    Making friends later in life is important and good

    Men, in particular, don't do it enough

    When the Flag Unpleasantness erupted a while back, I recall seeing a commentator pointing to Morris Dancing as a solution to that part of our national woe. Unambiguously English, an excuse for men to socialise, that sort of thing. Echoes of that Clive Lewis posting that made a stir at the weekend... there's a longing for community which doesn't have as many places to go as in previous generations. And the impulse is real (and valid for a lot of people), even if the current manifestation is counterproductive.

    Having had close but vicarious experience of intentional community, I can see the point of it, it is not good for man to be alone and all that. But oh, the effort...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,209
    @ReutersLegal

    JUST IN: Trump administration cannot proceed with overhaul of US health agencies, court rules

    https://x.com/ReutersLegal/status/1968423307838882275
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,270
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    "US Masters-winning golfer Nick Faldo will also take their seat at the table."

    Scratches head....I wouldn't have thought he would make it if there were 1600 spots at the table.

    Trump loves golf, Faldo is one of the greats, think he lives in Florida, Trump will love it.
    Faldo, sadly, is a Trump supporter. Tbf a lot of the golfers are but most of them have the excuse of being American.
    At least Bubba Watson eventually covered the Confederate Flag on his original No 1 General Lee TV car.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33393860

    P.S. Is it getting lonely as the only remaining socialist in the village?
    It's a tough gig atm, that's for sure. But it'll only make it better when the tide turns. As it will.
    Good luck, although I am not sure Starmer is the leader to turn it around. Nonetheless it's all getting a little bit too silly from a handful of posters for me.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17

    While on topic of AI music. I am intrigued by the channel that made the viral Big Ange track, it appears they pump out loads of pro-Reform tracks in a rap stylee. And they make AI gen music videos to go with them. Interested who is behind that.

    I can't see your stereo-typical ReformyGraph reading type spending their retirement doing that.

    Presumably part of the point is that you don't really need anyone to do it now- just get someone to type a prompt into whatever it is and you get something reliably adequate.
    No, you need to do a quite more work than that for audio and video. The text to music ones will pump out very bland generic nothing unless you give a lot of direction over the lyrics you wanr. Video, they won't make 3-4min videos with different scenes / cuts between them.

    Certainly you can get the backing track out fairly easily, but I think for somebody to create the track and video they will be spending a fair few hours if not days.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 10,419
    Roger said:

    An extraordinary production to put on for one guest but no doubt it was done with aplomb.

    Say what you like about Sir Keir but I couldn't escape the thought of how vomit inducing it would have been had Farage been PM.

    I suspect Nigel is praying that Trump doesn't manage to wrangle a third term with him as PM. He'd be stuck between a rock and a hard palace: having to live up to Trump's expectations and behave like a grovelling court jester, while all time knowing that his ratings would fall through the floor because of it.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,664
    edited September 17

    boulay said:

    Liverpool playing it patient.

    Not by the end of the game.

    Need to shore up the defence, but in all major competitions that's now five in five that have been won with a late, late goal. Remarkable.
    Many, many years ago Swindon won the 4th division with a (then) record 102 points under Lou Macari. When Macari wasn’t doing dodgy financials he made his team the fittest in the league. The training was brutal amounts of running and many of the players hated it. But.
    I recall almost every game I saw Town stretched away in the last 15 minutes. Fitness coming through.
    I suspect a lot of sides are setting up for the draw against Liverpool but the superior side is getting there in the end.
    The fitness aspect is interesting, considering his parents ran a fish and chip
  • viewcode said:

    I mentioned this last night, that I got auto-played a track on YouTube that I thought was a new track by an artists, but turned out to be an AI generated song that was not only very good, but sounded indistinguishable from the actual artist.

    Of course YouTube algorithm now thinks that is all I want, so been sent down a rabbit hole and it appears there is a whole "industry" of these channels who make original AI songs using the voice of (insert well known artist in a particular genre) often collaborations that are as good as the actual artists own catalogue.

    I am surprised YouTube hasn't nerfed these channels. I would be extremely worried if I made a living out of music.

    Artificial Intelligence Depeche Mode's song, originally created and uploaded from ‪@andrea_fryer‬ (3mins29secs)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3JzcTJNWr0

    Vaughn George's reaction to said "Depeche Mode" song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpKSc-nMrkE
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,266

    boulay said:

    Liverpool playing it patient.

    Not by the end of the game.

    Need to shore up the defence, but in all major competitions that's now five in five that have been won with a late, late goal. Remarkable.
    Many, many years ago Swindon won the 4th division with a (then) record 102 points under Lou Macari. When Macari wasn’t doing dodgy financials he made his team the fittest in the league. The training was brutal amounts of running and many of the players hated it. But.
    I recall almost every game I saw Town stretched away in the last 15 minutes. Fitness coming through.
    I suspect a lot of sides are setting up for the draw against Liverpool but the superior side is getting there in the end.
    The fitness aspect is interesting, considering his parents ran a fish and chip shop.
    What I found really interesting was what happened after Macari left. Ossie Ardiles took over and changed the style (which had been fairly direct) to a more passing game. It worked brilliantly for a season (the tragic 1990 promotion and relegation season) but then fell away. I’ve long believed that the legacy of the fitness stayed with the players for that first season and aided the passing style, but couldn’t be sustained without the hard work.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,389
    Andy_JS said:

    Whenever anything to do with Trump comes on the news, I switch off. Not interested. Because he's only there because of the failures of the hyper-liberals imo, and there's nothing much else to say about it really.

    He's there for a host of reasons but I do strongly empathise. I switch off too, although with me it's simply because I dislike seeing or hearing him. It's a chemical thing. I find I can keep abreast of his antics, which alas you have to if you want to stay relevant as a pundit on politics and world affairs, by reading about it.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,984
    One for @Leon :


    The Royal Family
    @RoyalFamily

    Sounds like it’s time for a cocktail!👂📣

    To be served at this evening’s State Banquet, a special US-UK cocktail has been created, blending smoky whisky with the bright citrus of marmalade. 🍹

    Crowned with a pecan foam and garnished with a toasted marshmallow set on a star-shaped biscuit, the cocktail aims to evoke the warmth of a fireside s’more.

    https://x.com/RoyalFamily/status/1968397176217755764
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,892

    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I think it just confirms what most people think that Labour has become the party of the managerial class, particularly the public sector, who have traditionally been drawn from public schools via getting into better universities and good networking.
    Depends what "managerial class" means. Do people send their kids to private school at considerable expense to see them eek out their days managing a small team at the DWP call centre? I think not.

    This poll asks far more questions than it answers.
    Although managing call centre team is the perfect springboard to become Chancellor of the Exchequer
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,674
    edited September 17
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
    No one would have doubted his ability to reign had he never been emperor.
    coughBoriscough

    So: does Andy have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    Does Nigel have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    I think Burnham sees himself as being robbed of the leadership before, and would make a more confident candidate now. Might be a disappointing PM, but he'd probably be better than Starmer (a bar so low you couldn't limbo under it).

    If it was me, I'd stay as Absolute Ruler of Manc, but I think he will make an attempt at it. Where is the by-election win coming from, though??? Not confident of him holding off a Reform challenge in a lot of GM seats.
    Must surely be a diverse inner-city seat in the region with a lot of students? No? Surely Burnham would walk a seat like that. I think I read that he won every ward in Gtr Manchester last time he was elected.
    Safest seats for Lab atm are:
    1) Manchester Central (I've heard it suggested Lucy Powel might be persuaded to stamd down in exchange for the mayoralty - though becoming deputy might change that).
    2) Salford (though hard to see Rebecca Long Bailey standing down)
    3) Manchester Rusholme (studenty and Muslim - might be vulnerable to any of the far lefties if onr of them can garner all the votes)
    4) Manchester Withington (not at all Reformy, though LDs might challenge)
    5) Denton and Gorton (Gorton not really Reformy though Denton mighy well be - Andrew Gwynne no longer seems to have much a future in parliament)
    6) Blackley and Middleton South (Graham Stringer surely not around much longer - might be vaguely vulnerable to Reform.
    7) Wythenshawe and Sale East (Wythenshawe may be a little Reformy for comfort, but likely to be safe).
    8) Stretford and Urmston (quite middle class but no LD tradition).
    9) Stockport (far from solidly Lab, but no obvious single challlenger)
    10) Oldham West (quite Muslim but not enough for the sectarian parties to be a threat)
    11) Bolton SE (ditto)
    12) Wigan (Reform may be interested but surely a stretch too far for them?)
    Other than that, I'd say too risky for him to consider.
    What about Leigh? That was where he was before.
    Wigan is Lisa Nandy. Can't see her going.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,674
    Leon said:

    I think I made a new friend tonight

    Went to the opening of a new jazz club. Met vague acquaintance. Bonded

    Making friends later in life is important and good

    Men, in particular, don't do it enough

    Great.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,632
    edited September 17
    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Thank goodness only 7% went to private schools.
    It seems incredible to me that 38% of privately educated people vote Labour. By incredible I think I mean ‘I don’t believe it’, to channel Victor Meldrew
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,255

    Leon said:

    I think I made a new friend tonight

    Went to the opening of a new jazz club. Met vague acquaintance. Bonded

    Making friends later in life is important and good

    Men, in particular, don't do it enough

    When the Flag Unpleasantness erupted a while back, I recall seeing a commentator pointing to Morris Dancing as a solution to that part of our national woe. Unambiguously English, an excuse for men to socialise, that sort of thing. Echoes of that Clive Lewis posting that made a stir at the weekend... there's a longing for community which doesn't have as many places to go as in previous generations. And the impulse is real (and valid for a lot of people), even if the current manifestation is counterproductive.

    Having had close but vicarious experience of intentional community, I can see the point of it, it is not good for man to be alone and all that. But oh, the effort...
    The stats on friendships and loneliness are horrific, likewise sex

    Humans, young and old, are making and keeping fewer friends and having much less sex

    I’m not sure what we do about it. Because both are essential to a long healthy life. Eventually, I suspect, a social order will emerge where smartphones and certainly social media are banned in some way, given that they are easily as dangerous as tobacco (which is now almost banned in many places)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    Andy_JS said:

    While on topic of AI music. I am intrigued by the channel that made the viral Big Ange track, it appears they pump out loads of pro-Reform tracks in a rap stylee. And they make AI gen music videos to go with them. Interested who is behind that.

    I can't see your stereo-typical ReformyGraph reading type spending their retirement doing that.

    I hope this doesn't kill off music produced the "traditional" way.
    I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but AI changed how music is produced a long time ago

    For example, recording a rock track, the drummer laid down the beat to which everybody played. Then they moved to click tracks that the musicians listened to and played in time with (both in the studio and live). Now it is very common not to use a live drummer on the recorded track. They might sample a bit of his playing and use it, but increasingly they don't even do that. If they do use a live drummer, they will often go through and see what he was playing and use generative software to create a "perfect" version of his playing.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    The problem with text to audio as a one stop shop, it produces a mixed version and you don't have any fine grain control. So it isn't really very helpful to make a complex track, you can't go in an change just the bass part on the chorus etc.

    But if you want it to rough something out, sure. But I imagine people are really using it a bit like they used samples in the past. The make a small sample, then they import into music production software and tinker. But rather than digging out the drum solo from a 1958 track from some totally unknown jazz / funk band from Harlem, they can use text to audio to produce it.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    Nick Watt on John Simpson's BBC2 show: Starmer may not make it through next year's elections.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Thank goodness only 7% went to private schools.
    It seems incredible to me that 38% of privately educated people vote Labour. By incredible I think I mean ‘I don’t believe it’, to channel Victor Meldrew
    Putney was the only Labour gain at the 2019 election and probably has one of the highest number of privately educated people, so it makes sense.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
    No one would have doubted his ability to reign had he never been emperor.
    coughBoriscough

    So: does Andy have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    Does Nigel have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    I think Burnham sees himself as being robbed of the leadership before, and would make a more confident candidate now. Might be a disappointing PM, but he'd probably be better than Starmer (a bar so low you couldn't limbo under it).

    If it was me, I'd stay as Absolute Ruler of Manc, but I think he will make an attempt at it. Where is the by-election win coming from, though??? Not confident of him holding off a Reform challenge in a lot of GM seats.
    Must surely be a diverse inner-city seat in the region with a lot of students? No? Surely Burnham would walk a seat like that. I think I read that he won every ward in Gtr Manchester last time he was elected.
    Safest seats for Lab atm are:
    1) Manchester Central (I've heard it suggested Lucy Powel might be persuaded to stamd down in exchange for the mayoralty - though becoming deputy might change that).
    2) Salford (though hard to see Rebecca Long Bailey standing down)
    3) Manchester Rusholme (studenty and Muslim - might be vulnerable to any of the far lefties if onr of them can garner all the votes)
    4) Manchester Withington (not at all Reformy, though LDs might challenge)
    5) Denton and Gorton (Gorton not really Reformy though Denton mighy well be - Andrew Gwynne no longer seems to have much a future in parliament)
    6) Blackley and Middleton South (Graham Stringer surely not around much longer - might be vaguely vulnerable to Reform.
    7) Wythenshawe and Sale East (Wythenshawe may be a little Reformy for comfort, but likely to be safe).
    8) Stretford and Urmston (quite middle class but no LD tradition).
    9) Stockport (far from solidly Lab, but no obvious single challlenger)
    10) Oldham West (quite Muslim but not enough for the sectarian parties to be a threat)
    11) Bolton SE (ditto)
    12) Wigan (Reform may be interested but surely a stretch too far for them?)
    Other than that, I'd say too risky for him to consider.
    Wigan certainly isn't safe for Labour versus a Reform challenge imo.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Thank goodness only 7% went to private schools.
    It seems incredible to me that 38% of privately educated people vote Labour. By incredible I think I mean ‘I don’t believe it’, to channel Victor Meldrew
    I can believe it. Think all those in universities, in medicine, in higher up in civil service, in public sector. Even people in on very good money in the private sector, probably think Starmer is a bit like them, like the idea of more pro-EU PM, own their own house, have a stable job on very good money in say creative industries, now WFH a lot. Food inflation at 5% doesn't really hit those people. Luxury belief type people who don't want to throw their lot in with total nutcases or antisemites.
  • Leon said:

    I think I made a new friend tonight

    Went to the opening of a new jazz club. Met vague acquaintance. Bonded

    Making friends later in life is important and good

    Men, in particular, don't do it enough

    When the Flag Unpleasantness erupted a while back, I recall seeing a commentator pointing to Morris Dancing as a solution to that part of our national woe. Unambiguously English, an excuse for men to socialise, that sort of thing. Echoes of that Clive Lewis posting that made a stir at the weekend... there's a longing for community which doesn't have as many places to go as in previous generations. And the impulse is real (and valid for a lot of people), even if the current manifestation is counterproductive.

    Having had close but vicarious experience of intentional community, I can see the point of it, it is not good for man to be alone and all that. But oh, the effort...
    England flags at Dagenham Heathway!


  • Andy_JS said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread, but I'm now hearing rather more concrete rumours that Burnham is putting in place plans to get back to parliament.

    He is by far their best chance, I think. That said, I think he benefits greatly from a lot of people projecting their hopes onto him. Hes been a popular mayor of a Labour city. That counts for something, but being PM at this particularly difficult time is something completely different.
    People do generally like Burnham here, he has a huge personal vote and he gets out front and centre when the city needs him. He's also got better political antennae than some (he held off on the Manchester Airport punch up, because he'd clearly seen ALL the footage, unlike my witless MP).

    My formerly Tory/LD switcher old mum LOVES him.

    However, being PM when we're in a bit of a pickle socially/economically and you've got limited options, with a side serving of ongoing international conflicts, is not going to be much fun. He'd have to really want it, as opposed to being King of The North forever.
    No one would have doubted his ability to reign had he never been emperor.
    coughBoriscough

    So: does Andy have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    Does Nigel have enough self-awareness to realise this?
    I think Burnham sees himself as being robbed of the leadership before, and would make a more confident candidate now. Might be a disappointing PM, but he'd probably be better than Starmer (a bar so low you couldn't limbo under it).

    If it was me, I'd stay as Absolute Ruler of Manc, but I think he will make an attempt at it. Where is the by-election win coming from, though??? Not confident of him holding off a Reform challenge in a lot of GM seats.
    Must surely be a diverse inner-city seat in the region with a lot of students? No? Surely Burnham would walk a seat like that. I think I read that he won every ward in Gtr Manchester last time he was elected.
    Safest seats for Lab atm are:
    1) Manchester Central (I've heard it suggested Lucy Powel might be persuaded to stamd down in exchange for the mayoralty - though becoming deputy might change that).
    2) Salford (though hard to see Rebecca Long Bailey standing down)
    3) Manchester Rusholme (studenty and Muslim - might be vulnerable to any of the far lefties if onr of them can garner all the votes)
    4) Manchester Withington (not at all Reformy, though LDs might challenge)
    5) Denton and Gorton (Gorton not really Reformy though Denton mighy well be - Andrew Gwynne no longer seems to have much a future in parliament)
    6) Blackley and Middleton South (Graham Stringer surely not around much longer - might be vaguely vulnerable to Reform.
    7) Wythenshawe and Sale East (Wythenshawe may be a little Reformy for comfort, but likely to be safe).
    8) Stretford and Urmston (quite middle class but no LD tradition).
    9) Stockport (far from solidly Lab, but no obvious single challlenger)
    10) Oldham West (quite Muslim but not enough for the sectarian parties to be a threat)
    11) Bolton SE (ditto)
    12) Wigan (Reform may be interested but surely a stretch too far for them?)
    Other than that, I'd say too risky for him to consider.
    Wigan certainly isn't safe for Labour versus a Reform challenge imo.
    Wigan may as well be another country, as I'm from the other side of the county, so no idea.

    Oldham West - WWC vote particularly in Royton has shown a willingness to vote BNP in the past, so I'd be cautious, also is Jim McMahon willing to stand aside?

    Rusholme/Withington/Central - all have a high proportion of students, vulnerable to Corbyn/Sultana's nut jobs carving off some votes

    Stockport has changing demographics and a lot of younger professionals priced out of Dids/Chorlton moving in, now's it the New Berlin. Might help.

    Denton/Gorton - mix of WWC and Muslim vote make it a tricky prospect

    His best chance would be in either of the Bury seats - South has a large Jewish vote, so no chance of the Jezbollah making in-roads and North has enough of the middle classes in Ramsbottom/Tottington to see him home safely.

    Apart from Andrew Gwynne, not sure who is going to be willing to fall on their sword to let King Andy have a run?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506

    Andy_JS said:

    While on topic of AI music. I am intrigued by the channel that made the viral Big Ange track, it appears they pump out loads of pro-Reform tracks in a rap stylee. And they make AI gen music videos to go with them. Interested who is behind that.

    I can't see your stereo-typical ReformyGraph reading type spending their retirement doing that.

    I hope this doesn't kill off music produced the "traditional" way.
    I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but AI changed how music is produced a long time ago

    For example, recording a rock track, the drummer laid down the beat to which everybody played. Then they moved to click tracks that the musicians listened to and played in time with (both in the studio and live). Now it is very common not to use a live drummer on the recorded track. They might sample a bit of his playing and use it, but increasingly they don't even do that. If they do use a live drummer, they will often go through and see what he was playing and use generative software to create a "perfect" version of his playing.
    What's a long time ago in this context? My favourite musical period is the early/mid 80s so I'm a bit out of touch.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,255
    Flat refurb update


    This used to be IKEA, as @Theuniondivvie gently pointed out


  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,270
    And in other no shit Sherlock news.
    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Watt on John Simpson's BBC2 show: Starmer may not make it through next year's elections.

  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,362

    isam said:

    Andy_JS said:

    isam said:

    Interesting…

    Thought this striking: using last weeks voting intention by school type. Big Reform lead among those who went to a state school, Tories best result among grammar school alum & Labour actually have a fairly big lead among private school attendees, consistent in other recent polls

    https://x.com/luketryl/status/1968262146275655869?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Thank goodness only 7% went to private schools.
    It seems incredible to me that 38% of privately educated people vote Labour. By incredible I think I mean ‘I don’t believe it’, to channel Victor Meldrew
    I can believe it. Think all those in universities, in medicine, in higher up in civil service, in public sector. Even people in on very good money in the private sector, probably think Starmer is a bit like them, like the idea of more pro-EU PM, own their own house, have a stable job on very good money in say creative industries, now WFH a lot. Food inflation at 5% doesn't really hit those people. Luxury belief type people who don't want to throw their lot in with total nutcases or antisemites.
    I suspect the same people who thought having a cheap Polish nanny or the like was super in 2005. No need to invest in the infrastructure to support the communities who were trying to support and help an influx of people/kids who needed English as a second language, help with X, whatever.

    It really distresses me that the choices that were made around the turn of the millennium were so one-sided and are now being taken out on the poor f**ks at the bottom of the pile.

    I'm just glad that someone, somewhere has made a shed-load of cash out of it. It'll trickle down eventually, I'm led to believe.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,270
    edited September 17

    One for @Leon :


    The Royal Family
    @RoyalFamily

    Sounds like it’s time for a cocktail!👂📣

    To be served at this evening’s State Banquet, a special US-UK cocktail has been created, blending smoky whisky with the bright citrus of marmalade. 🍹

    Crowned with a pecan foam and garnished with a toasted marshmallow set on a star-shaped biscuit, the cocktail aims to evoke the warmth of a fireside s’more.

    https://x.com/RoyalFamily/status/1968397176217755764

    A handy little digestif after the KFC Hot Wings and Big Macs.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    While on topic of AI music. I am intrigued by the channel that made the viral Big Ange track, it appears they pump out loads of pro-Reform tracks in a rap stylee. And they make AI gen music videos to go with them. Interested who is behind that.

    I can't see your stereo-typical ReformyGraph reading type spending their retirement doing that.

    I hope this doesn't kill off music produced the "traditional" way.
    I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but AI changed how music is produced a long time ago

    For example, recording a rock track, the drummer laid down the beat to which everybody played. Then they moved to click tracks that the musicians listened to and played in time with (both in the studio and live). Now it is very common not to use a live drummer on the recorded track. They might sample a bit of his playing and use it, but increasingly they don't even do that. If they do use a live drummer, they will often go through and see what he was playing and use generative software to create a "perfect" version of his playing.
    What's a long time ago in this context? My favourite musical period is the early/mid 80s so I'm a bit out of touch.
    I am not really an expert in music production, so I might be off on the timeline. But I think noughties were when things started to go down the reliance on the click track and say post 2010 the use of these computer generated drums for the recorded track.

    Nowadays most bands can't even play their shows without a load of tech. The click track via the in ears, and then there is a load of effects / extra backing, and I am not talking pop stars, talking the sort of bands that you think "proper" musicians.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,362

    The problem with text to audio as a one stop shop, it produces a mixed version and you don't have any fine grain control. So it isn't really very helpful to make a complex track, you can't go in an change just the bass part on the chorus etc.

    But if you want it to rough something out, sure. But I imagine people are really using it a bit like they used samples in the past. The make a small sample, then they import into music production software and tinker. But rather than digging out the drum solo from a 1958 track from some totally unknown jazz / funk band from Harlem, they can use text to audio to produce it.

    Don't most of the text-to-music platforms give you back separate tracks these days? It's not something I follow in particular - but I'm sure I've seen the likes of elevenlabs or suno splitting the results into bass/percussion/vocals/whatever for export.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,270
    Just watched Trump's speech at Windsor Castle.

    A big hand for Peppa Pig era Boris Johnson for his contribution.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    ohnotnow said:

    The problem with text to audio as a one stop shop, it produces a mixed version and you don't have any fine grain control. So it isn't really very helpful to make a complex track, you can't go in an change just the bass part on the chorus etc.

    But if you want it to rough something out, sure. But I imagine people are really using it a bit like they used samples in the past. The make a small sample, then they import into music production software and tinker. But rather than digging out the drum solo from a 1958 track from some totally unknown jazz / funk band from Harlem, they can use text to audio to produce it.

    Don't most of the text-to-music platforms give you back separate tracks these days? It's not something I follow in particular - but I'm sure I've seen the likes of elevenlabs or suno splitting the results into bass/percussion/vocals/whatever for export.
    You are right. They do now. But I believe a) those stems aren't as "pure" as if they were recorded with real instruments and you have the unmixed tracks. They will have tried to split all the existing music into different stems automatically which is far from perfect, so the generated songs are always contaminated* to some extent and b) you still don't have ability for fine grain control of each part of each stem in the way music production software does.

    * I think this is how Rich Beato worked out the viral band on Spotify was actually AI.

    But if you are a whizz with music production tools you are going to be able to mix and match and edit the samples. But it isn't as simple as enter "write a song about why Nigel Farage is amazing" or "write a song about Big Ange the tax dodger". There is more to it. Which is why I am a little suss about what is going on with this pro Reform YouTube channel.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17

    ohnotnow said:

    The problem with text to audio as a one stop shop, it produces a mixed version and you don't have any fine grain control. So it isn't really very helpful to make a complex track, you can't go in an change just the bass part on the chorus etc.

    But if you want it to rough something out, sure. But I imagine people are really using it a bit like they used samples in the past. The make a small sample, then they import into music production software and tinker. But rather than digging out the drum solo from a 1958 track from some totally unknown jazz / funk band from Harlem, they can use text to audio to produce it.

    Don't most of the text-to-music platforms give you back separate tracks these days? It's not something I follow in particular - but I'm sure I've seen the likes of elevenlabs or suno splitting the results into bass/percussion/vocals/whatever for export.
    You are right. They do now. But I believe a) those stems aren't as "pure" as if they were recorded with real instruments and you have the unmixed tracks. They will have tried to split all the existing music into different stems automatically which is far from perfect, so the generated songs are always contaminated* to some extent and b) you still don't have ability for fine grain control of each part of each stem in the way music production software does.

    * Edit...

    But if you are a whizz with music production tools you are going to be able to mix and match and edit the samples. But it isn't as simple as enter "write a song about why Nigel Farage is amazing" or "write a song about Big Ange the tax dodger". There is more to it. Which is why I am a little suss about what is going on with this pro Reform YouTube channel.
    * I think this is how Rich Beato worked out the viral band on Spotify was actually AI i.e. there were faint wave forms of different instruments playing in parts of the song where no such instrument is heard playing. This would never happen if you created a track via professional mixing where each instrument gets a dedicated recording.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,569

    And in other no shit Sherlock news.

    Andy_JS said:

    Nick Watt on John Simpson's BBC2 show: Starmer may not make it through next year's elections.

    Downing Street will be relieved that Trump's State visit has finally knocked Keir Starmer's political difficulties off the front pages tonight. But there is definitely a sense now that the Westminster lobby along with PLP have now decided that Starmer is a dud as PM and No10 is dysfunctional and its now a case of not if but when he is forced to step down despite it being incredible difficult to remove a sitting Labour leader and that is now driving the political news agenda.
  • A record-breaking £150bn package of US investment into the UK has been announced during US President Donald Trump's state visit. The UK government is calling this the largest commercial deal of its kind and expects it to create more than 7,600 "high-quality jobs" across the country.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2nllgl3q7o

    £20m per job.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,823

    One for @Leon :
    The Royal Family
    @RoyalFamily

    Sounds like it’s time for a cocktail!👂📣

    To be served at this evening’s State Banquet, a special US-UK cocktail has been created, blending smoky whisky with the bright citrus of marmalade. 🍹

    Crowned with a pecan foam and garnished with a toasted marshmallow set on a star-shaped biscuit, the cocktail aims to evoke the warmth of a fireside s’more.

    https://x.com/RoyalFamily/status/1968397176217755764

    Trump doesn't drink alcohol. His brother was an alcoholic.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,077

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    While on topic of AI music. I am intrigued by the channel that made the viral Big Ange track, it appears they pump out loads of pro-Reform tracks in a rap stylee. And they make AI gen music videos to go with them. Interested who is behind that.

    I can't see your stereo-typical ReformyGraph reading type spending their retirement doing that.

    I hope this doesn't kill off music produced the "traditional" way.
    I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but AI changed how music is produced a long time ago

    For example, recording a rock track, the drummer laid down the beat to which everybody played. Then they moved to click tracks that the musicians listened to and played in time with (both in the studio and live). Now it is very common not to use a live drummer on the recorded track. They might sample a bit of his playing and use it, but increasingly they don't even do that. If they do use a live drummer, they will often go through and see what he was playing and use generative software to create a "perfect" version of his playing.
    What's a long time ago in this context? My favourite musical period is the early/mid 80s so I'm a bit out of touch.
    I am not really an expert in music production, so I might be off on the timeline. But I think noughties were when things started to go down the reliance on the click track and say post 2010 the use of these computer generated drums for the recorded track.

    Nowadays most bands can't even play their shows without a load of tech. The click track via the in ears, and then there is a load of effects / extra backing, and I am not talking pop stars, talking the sort of bands that you think "proper" musicians.
    I shot a Fiat ad for an Italian agency and they came to London for the music track. We got Jenkins Ratledge to do it and they decided it had to be done with real instruments being the only way to get a pure sound. They booked Abbey Road Studio and got in several musicians at separate times to in some cases play a single note.

    That was how you laid a track for a 30 second commercial in 1998 if Mike Ratledge thought your client had loads of dosh!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    Roger said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    While on topic of AI music. I am intrigued by the channel that made the viral Big Ange track, it appears they pump out loads of pro-Reform tracks in a rap stylee. And they make AI gen music videos to go with them. Interested who is behind that.

    I can't see your stereo-typical ReformyGraph reading type spending their retirement doing that.

    I hope this doesn't kill off music produced the "traditional" way.
    I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but AI changed how music is produced a long time ago

    For example, recording a rock track, the drummer laid down the beat to which everybody played. Then they moved to click tracks that the musicians listened to and played in time with (both in the studio and live). Now it is very common not to use a live drummer on the recorded track. They might sample a bit of his playing and use it, but increasingly they don't even do that. If they do use a live drummer, they will often go through and see what he was playing and use generative software to create a "perfect" version of his playing.
    What's a long time ago in this context? My favourite musical period is the early/mid 80s so I'm a bit out of touch.
    I am not really an expert in music production, so I might be off on the timeline. But I think noughties were when things started to go down the reliance on the click track and say post 2010 the use of these computer generated drums for the recorded track.

    Nowadays most bands can't even play their shows without a load of tech. The click track via the in ears, and then there is a load of effects / extra backing, and I am not talking pop stars, talking the sort of bands that you think "proper" musicians.
    I shot a Fiat ad for an Italian agency and they came to London for the music track. We got Jenkins Ratledge to do it and they decided it had to be done with real instruments being the only way to get a pure sound. They booked Abbey Road Studio and got in several musicians at separate times to in some cases play a single note.

    That was how you laid a track for a 30 second commercial in 1998 if Mike Ratledge thought your client had loads of dosh!
    I think if it hasn't already, it is going to go the way of the dodo.

    I can't see lower tier brands even shooting ads in the traditional sense in 5 years. The generative AI is already able to perfectly acceptable job for 20-30s ad. We are already seeing it with them using AI generated models to showcase clothes.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,569
    X
    Sky News@SkyNews
    Jimmy Kimmel's show pulled over comments about Charlie Kirk
    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1968458505293025300
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited September 17
    fitalass said:

    X
    Sky News@SkyNews
    Jimmy Kimmel's show pulled over comments about Charlie Kirk
    https://x.com/SkyNews/status/1968458505293025300

    Here’s the clip about Charlie Kirks death — that led to Jimmy Kimmel being pulled from 32 ABC stations:

    https://x.com/JeremyKamali/status/1968449885096603692/video/1

    The comedy writers for these late night shows have lost their way. Its not able coming up with good gags, its all about political point scoring.

    Yes the president is a douche bag, but its not your job to every night hold him to account (that is what the news media is there for), it was supposed to be to write some funny gags that America could do a bit of escapism after a hard days work.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    A Home Office-backed charity is providing migrants with a step-by-step guide that could help them thwart Sir Keir Starmer’s “one in, one out” migrant deal with France.

    Current government website guidelines state that “welfare services” must provide migrants held in removal centres with a “notebook” produced by Bail for Immigration Detainees (BiD), a charity that provides legal advice to people in detention.

    The Telegraph can reveal that BiD, which has received more than £400,000 in Comic Relief donations and which benefits from charitable tax relief, has produced a detailed method that could help migrants to beat the Prime Minister’s flagship policy. The guide includes “template” letters migrants can use and suggestions for how to use legal and human rights arguments to fight deportation.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/17/home-office-backed-charity-obstructs-migrant-deal/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,629
    edited 12:14AM
    The Government will have to concede to EU demands on youth mobility before signing a deal on food safety.

    The European Union is refusing to finalise one of Sir Keir Starmer’s Brexit reset priorities unless No 10 accepts a higher number of temporary workers from Europe, negotiators have said.

    Both sides agreed to pursue individual pacts as part of a wide-ranging reset of post-Brexit trade terms earlier this year.

    But now Brussels is insisting any progress on the deal to ease export checks on food is conditional on the number of young people that Downing Street will allow the right to live, work and study in Britain.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/17/eu-starmer-accept-young-workers-forget-trade-deal/

    Every time UK negotiators fall into this trap where they don't nail down certain parts of a deal so that it can be reopened and used as leveraged against them as they have already said we are getting x or y.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,716

    A Home Office-backed charity is providing migrants with a step-by-step guide that could help them thwart Sir Keir Starmer’s “one in, one out” migrant deal with France.

    Current government website guidelines state that “welfare services” must provide migrants held in removal centres with a “notebook” produced by Bail for Immigration Detainees (BiD), a charity that provides legal advice to people in detention.

    The Telegraph can reveal that BiD, which has received more than £400,000 in Comic Relief donations and which benefits from charitable tax relief, has produced a detailed method that could help migrants to beat the Prime Minister’s flagship policy. The guide includes “template” letters migrants can use and suggestions for how to use legal and human rights arguments to fight deportation.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/09/17/home-office-backed-charity-obstructs-migrant-deal/

    Reform of the ECHR can't come fast enough. Other loopholes can be closed given the government's huge majority.
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