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The public want Danny Kruger to trigger a by-election – politicalbetting.com

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  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 9,678

    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Do they really? It has been 14 years since I worked in an office, so I know very little about modern office life. I certainly didn't know that
    I cannot get into the office without swiping my keycard, if I put my keycard in my wallet sometimes it stops working, so I put my keycard in a lanyard.
    I kept it in my pocket.
    Same here, though I was in a minority.

    I vaguely think we're supposed to wear them visibly (university) but I've never bothered and no one has ever complained.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,282
    edited September 17
    In terms of the LDs here, Lib Dems do well in by elections versus (usually) governments as NOTA/Dissatisfaction.
    Reform would be taking that vote/role here, so there wont be the NOTA votes to hoover up
    The media would portray it as Reform vs Con, ergo Con would get the 'stop Reform' vote plus their own vote and Reform will get the NOTA/roll the dice vote
  • AI training data taken from the internet....lanyard wearers....unpopular....do nothings...waste of space....

    Grok recommends "all laynard wearers must be sacked".....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    edited September 17
    This YouGov MRP is 3 months out of date. Their figures for East Wiltshire from then:

    Con 28% (-8 compared to GE2024)
    Ref 27% (+10)
    LD 19% (+2)
    Lab 17% (-9)
    Grn 8% (+4)

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52437-first-yougov-mrp-since-2024-election-shows-a-hung-parliament-with-reform-uk-as-largest-party
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,198
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.
    How do I get into work? Wave? Medium of dance?
    Well, I doubt the lanyard has anything to do with getting you into work. It's normally a little plastic card, which you could keep in your pocket.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    What's the point of the flights taking off if they have no passengers?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,309

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,282
    Andy_JS said:

    This YouGov MRP is 3 months out of date. Their figures for East Wiltshire from then:

    Con 28%
    Ref 27%
    LD 19%
    Lab 17%
    Grn 8%

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52437-first-yougov-mrp-since-2024-election-shows-a-hung-parliament-with-reform-uk-as-largest-party

    Yougovs polling is broadly similar now to then. MiC in July had it Con 29 Lab 23 Ref 22 LD 19
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,824
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.
    We've replaced lanyards with employee tattoos. The embedded QR codes enable employees access appropriate areas using door scanners and to pay for things in the company canteen.

    It's been a big success, plus it's a real opportunity for employees to show loyalty.
    Wuss. What was wrong with implanting chips into people and adminstering electric shocks to ensure compliance? Did Milgram die in vain?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,716
    Andy_JS said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    What's the point of the flights taking off if they have no passengers?
    There were other passengers, it’s a normally scheduled flight.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,446
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Also, the first and last carriages are first class.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    What's the point of the flights taking off if they have no passengers?
    They are scheduled flights so have passengers
  • eekeek Posts: 31,309
    Andy_JS said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    What's the point of the flights taking off if they have no passengers?
    To get the plane back for its next flight which would have passengers.

    But the flight did have passengers just not a migrant being deported with escort
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 25,824

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.
    How do I get into work? Wave? Medium of dance?
    Well, I doubt the lanyard has anything to do with getting you into work. It's normally a little plastic card, which you could keep in your pocket.
    It used to be pinned to my belt. Then I went to a wedding with it still clipped on. Oh, how we laughed. :)
  • KnightOutKnightOut Posts: 184
    Andy_JS said:



    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.


    Nothing should be banned and nothing should be mandatory. It really is that simple (with the very few legitimate exceptions that directly impact on other individuals freedoms to exist).

    Lanyards, halal slaughter, petrol engines, tractor porn, Tom Knox novels...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 17
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,282

    Andy_JS said:

    This YouGov MRP is 3 months out of date. Their figures for East Wiltshire from then:

    Con 28%
    Ref 27%
    LD 19%
    Lab 17%
    Grn 8%

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/52437-first-yougov-mrp-since-2024-election-shows-a-hung-parliament-with-reform-uk-as-largest-party

    Yougovs polling is broadly similar now to then. MiC in July had it Con 29 Lab 23 Ref 22 LD 19
    Electoral Calculus June MRP had it Ref 33 Con 26 Lab 17 LD 16
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,198
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.
    How do I get into work? Wave? Medium of dance?
    Well, I doubt the lanyard has anything to do with getting you into work. It's normally a little plastic card, which you could keep in your pocket.
    It used to be pinned to my belt. Then I went to a wedding with it still clipped on. Oh, how we laughed. :)
    I had a separate name badge, which just clipped on to my shirt. When we still needed the cards to access our PCs I did wear it on the lanyard, as it was easier to access especially when you were sitting down. But as soon as we went to face recognition and I only needed it to exit and enter the office, it went in my pocket and I got rid of the nasty dangly thing.
  • viewcode said:

    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Do they really? It has been 14 years since I worked in an office, so I know very little about modern office life. I certainly didn't know that
    Depends. In big or medium size offices, yes. Office jobs usually have external doors which have some kind of plate on them that you have to place a device on to gain access. In my present job I have to slap my ID badge on three: one to get into the front door, another to get thru the internal doors, and a third to get into the research area. In my previous job it was just two: the external door and the gateline into the building past the security staff. Before that it was just one (enter the building). The one before that had two or one plus a timeclock, the one before that had two. That's about the last 25 yrs.

    If you go into a local bank and ask for a mortgage, you'll see the staff do it when they go into the internal offices.

    For smaller offices (say lawyers) probably not, although it's been 20 years since I've been in a lawyer's office (my immediate thoughts were i: nice desks, and ii: can't you f*****s file things?).

    So yes. If you're employed in an office/organisation that has a number of staff big enough to need security and a HR dept, I'd say definitely.
    A lot of sixth formers round here wear lanyards too, although I suppose that might be a work experience thing.
    Security, mostly. In schools, you can use uniforms to filter who should and shouldn't be there. Take that away, as most sixth forms do, and you need some other means of identifying friend and foe. That's particularly true if the sixth form and the lower school share a building.

    (There are work experience aspects, but more in FE and linked to job-related clothing. So proper PPE for engineers, chefs' whites in catering and the uniform of a moderately respectable regional airline for tourism students.)
  • I bet family dinners are awkward after this.

    A nurse is suing her GP brother who she claimed failed to tell her she was fired.

    Anika Moughal claimed her brother was “objectively ambiguous” when he tried to inform her she was dismissed, an employment tribunal heard.

    Dr Mohammed Moughal said he wanted to “soften the blow” when he fired his sister and suggested she “stop logging in”, but she claims this language left her unaware that she had been sacked.

    Ms Moughal, who worked for Greenlaw Medical Practice as a nurse, is now taking her brother and his GP practice to an employment tribunal in Glasgow, for claims including unfair dismissal.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/09/17/nurse-sues-gp-brother-not-telling-she-was-sacked/?recomm_id=6bcb26b3-ed2e-496f-9ae0-d994ae457e74
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,320
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    A convict coach on the Eurostar would keep Liam Neeson in work for some time, what with all the films made about various on board shenanigans.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,969
    edited September 17
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.
    We've replaced lanyards with employee tattoos. The embedded QR codes enable employees access appropriate areas using door scanners and to pay for things in the company canteen.

    It's been a big success, plus it's a real opportunity for employees to show loyalty.
    Old thinking

    I implant all my reports with explosive charges on their carotid arteries.

    This is combined with RFID.

    If they stray outside the permitted spaces in working hours, or are made redundant, the organ bank is called upon automatic initiation.

    Monetize, my friend, monetize.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,198

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    I agree with the public. If you are elected for one party at an election but leave it for another party before the next election you should fight a by election as otherwise you are not representing the manifesto you were elected on
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    dixiedean said:

    Folk expecting the politics of Milei from a Reform government are destined to be sadly disappointed.

    Kemi has promised that anyway
    https://www.kemibadenoch.org.uk/news/ft-interview-tory-leader-kemi-badenoch-says-she-britains-javier-milei
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 44,320
    I don't know what the deal with her is but Melania sure is as cool as fuck.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,190
    Before anyone says "but they have to make profits", the profit margins on what are essential public utilities are insanely high.

    Analysis reveals sum equal to 24.2% of average bill taken as pre-tax profits by the major energy industries last year, rather than being reinvested
    UK public has paid £200bn to shareholders of key industries since privatisation – study
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/privatisation-premium-billions-from-uk-energy-bills-paid-to-shareholders

    Utility privatisation has been a miserable failure both for the consumer and the country.
    Capital investment wss crushed, and a large proportion of the dividends go overseas.

    I am a believed in market economics, but the utilities simply aren't subject to genuine competition.

    Time to get a grip (and Milliband is probably the last person I'd choose to do so).
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,198
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Folk expecting the politics of Milei from a Reform government are destined to be sadly disappointed.

    Kemi has promised that anyway
    https://www.kemibadenoch.org.uk/news/ft-interview-tory-leader-kemi-badenoch-says-she-britains-javier-milei
    I thought you were going to say she has promised to sadly disappoint us.
  • Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.
    Why?

    (Serious, scout not soldier question. I get that we never used to have them, and that, for some, they've become an emblem of the worst kind of bureaucrat, and that the ribbons with slogans are naff, but they're useful for security, aren't they?)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 17

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
    Don't tell Ed Miliband, but I prefer flying from smaller airports with only carry on....if you go on the first flights out in the morning, I find I can arrive an hour before my flight, walk straight through the security as very quiet at say 4am and at the other end straight out the door in a few minutes. Even from Heathrow if you get the first flights out can still be very quiet.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,198
    Nigelb said:

    Before anyone says "but they have to make profits", the profit margins on what are essential public utilities are insanely high.

    Analysis reveals sum equal to 24.2% of average bill taken as pre-tax profits by the major energy industries last year, rather than being reinvested
    UK public has paid £200bn to shareholders of key industries since privatisation – study
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/privatisation-premium-billions-from-uk-energy-bills-paid-to-shareholders

    Utility privatisation has been a miserable failure both for the consumer and the country.
    Capital investment wss crushed, and a large proportion of the dividends go overseas.

    I am a believed in market economics, but the utilities simply aren't subject to genuine competition.

    Time to get a grip (and Milliband is probably the last person I'd choose to do so).

    Indeed, I always thought utilities should make less profit due to less risk, so a couple of percent above what interest you could get depositing cash
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,190
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.
    We've replaced lanyards with employee tattoos. The embedded QR codes enable employees access appropriate areas using door scanners and to pay for things in the company canteen.

    It's been a big success, plus it's a real opportunity for employees to show loyalty.
    Forearms or foreheads ?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,225
    Andy_JS said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    What's the point of the flights taking off if they have no passengers?
    Because there are other people on them so they do have passengers?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 81,190

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.
    How do I get into work? Wave? Medium of dance?
    Well, I doubt the lanyard has anything to do with getting you into work. It's normally a little plastic card, which you could keep in your pocket.
    It used to be pinned to my belt. Then I went to a wedding with it still clipped on. Oh, how we laughed. :)
    I had a separate name badge, which just clipped on to my shirt. When we still needed the cards to access our PCs I did wear it on the lanyard, as it was easier to access especially when you were sitting down. But as soon as we went to face recognition and I only needed it to exit and enter the office, it went in my pocket and I got rid of the nasty dangly thing.
    Was that painful ?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    And where centrist dadism is losing it is mainly to politicians who are anti immigration and anti globalisation and nationalist eg Trump, Farage, Meloni, increasingly Le Pen's party, the AfD, Modi, for a term Bolsonaro etc rather than slash the state libertarians.

    Milei was an exception to that but as the Buenos Aires result showed the sheer scale of his public spending and welfare cuts are losing him support in urban areas especially
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,198

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
    Don't tell Ed Miliband, but I prefer flying from smaller airports with only carry on....if you go on the first flights out in the morning, I find I can arrive an hour before my flight, walk straight through the security as very quiet at say 4am and at the other end straight out the door in a few minutes. Even from Heathrow if you get the first flights out can still be very quiet.
    Yes that can be a good option. And the passenger lounge at St Pancras is far too small and a hell hole.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,154
    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Folk expecting the politics of Milei from a Reform government are destined to be sadly disappointed.

    Kemi has promised that anyway
    https://www.kemibadenoch.org.uk/news/ft-interview-tory-leader-kemi-badenoch-says-she-britains-javier-milei
    Is that like how Dave promised immigration in the tens of thousands? And to “pay down our debt”?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,154

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
    Lille is a surprisingly pleasant place.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    Only if you increase spending and don't raise tax to pay for it, it is deficits the IMF won't fund unless action taken, not big state spending if financed by high tax as that does not need borrowing
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285

    Good.

    Plans to scrap Scotland's controversial not proven verdict have been approved by MSPs.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8rndyyp7vo

    May lead to more guilty verdicts
  • viewcode said:

    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Do they really? It has been 14 years since I worked in an office, so I know very little about modern office life. I certainly didn't know that
    Depends. In big or medium size offices, yes. Office jobs usually have external doors which have some kind of plate on them that you have to place a device on to gain access. In my present job I have to slap my ID badge on three: one to get into the front door, another to get thru the internal doors, and a third to get into the research area. In my previous job it was just two: the external door and the gateline into the building past the security staff. Before that it was just one (enter the building). The one before that had two or one plus a timeclock, the one before that had two. That's about the last 25 yrs.

    If you go into a local bank and ask for a mortgage, you'll see the staff do it when they go into the internal offices.

    For smaller offices (say lawyers) probably not, although it's been 20 years since I've been in a lawyer's office (my immediate thoughts were i: nice desks, and ii: can't you f*****s file things?).

    So yes. If you're employed in an office/organisation that has a number of staff big enough to need security and a HR dept, I'd say definitely.
    A lot of sixth formers round here wear lanyards too, although I suppose that might be a work experience thing.
    Security, mostly. In schools, you can use uniforms to filter who should and shouldn't be there. Take that away, as most sixth forms do, and you need some other means of identifying friend and foe. That's particularly true if the sixth form and the lower school share a building.

    (There are work experience aspects, but more in FE and linked to job-related clothing. So proper PPE for engineers, chefs' whites in catering and the uniform of a moderately respectable regional airline for tourism students.)
    Thanks. Veering OT, one of the Masterchef semi-finalists this week is Hazel from Romford. One of your old customers? (Although thinking about it, you better not answer that in case she wins and doxes you by naming the school.)
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,225

    viewcode said:

    isam said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Do they really? It has been 14 years since I worked in an office, so I know very little about modern office life. I certainly didn't know that
    Depends. In big or medium size offices, yes. Office jobs usually have external doors which have some kind of plate on them that you have to place a device on to gain access. In my present job I have to slap my ID badge on three: one to get into the front door, another to get thru the internal doors, and a third to get into the research area. In my previous job it was just two: the external door and the gateline into the building past the security staff. Before that it was just one (enter the building). The one before that had two or one plus a timeclock, the one before that had two. That's about the last 25 yrs.

    If you go into a local bank and ask for a mortgage, you'll see the staff do it when they go into the internal offices.

    For smaller offices (say lawyers) probably not, although it's been 20 years since I've been in a lawyer's office (my immediate thoughts were i: nice desks, and ii: can't you f*****s file things?).

    So yes. If you're employed in an office/organisation that has a number of staff big enough to need security and a HR dept, I'd say definitely.
    A lot of sixth formers round here wear lanyards too, although I suppose that might be a work experience thing.
    No, it's a school thing. They are commonplace in modern schools.
  • The worst place to be a cyclist (40 seconds of The Rest is History)
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/t3ESxKtcBmk
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393

    Good.

    Plans to scrap Scotland's controversial not proven verdict have been approved by MSPs.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8rndyyp7vo

    I've told this story before but my late father was on a jury. 2 complainers, both young children. One of them absolutely crystal. The other just all over the place as a result of drugs and self harm. Totally unreliable. Corroboration came from each other and Scots law requires corroboration. The jury found the second NG and the first NP because they wanted to make clear they totally believed the girl but they could not convict without corroboration.

    I think that there is a role for it and I say it as a prosecutor. The onus of proof is on the Crown. If we cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt then not proven is the correct verdict. Personally, if we had to choose, I would abolish NG.

    The quid pro quo of this is that rather than needing 8 votes for guilty out of 15 I will now need 10. Let's just say that I am glad I am not facing that hurdle in the case where the Jury will decide tomorrow.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,757
    Mortimer said:

    eek said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    What would the IMF be providing - that’s the flaw in the IMF argument that no one answers so please tell us?
    Err, keep up at the back - a bailout when our debt becomes too onerous to service. It isn't rocket science; just economics
    Our debt isn't dollar denominated, the scenario is that investors won't want to purchase sterling denominated debt if the government monetises and inflates it away which is when the IMF may need to step in and lend us dollars because our domestic currency purchasing power has been wiped out by inflation.
  • Nigelb said:

    Before anyone says "but they have to make profits", the profit margins on what are essential public utilities are insanely high.

    Analysis reveals sum equal to 24.2% of average bill taken as pre-tax profits by the major energy industries last year, rather than being reinvested
    UK public has paid £200bn to shareholders of key industries since privatisation – study
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/privatisation-premium-billions-from-uk-energy-bills-paid-to-shareholders

    Utility privatisation has been a miserable failure both for the consumer and the country.
    Capital investment wss crushed, and a large proportion of the dividends go overseas.

    I am a believed in market economics, but the utilities simply aren't subject to genuine competition.

    Time to get a grip (and Milliband is probably the last person I'd choose to do so).

    Indeed, I always thought utilities should make less profit due to less risk, so a couple of percent above what interest you could get depositing cash
    But companies don't aim for the profit they should make. Their duty is to make as much as they can get away with.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    Lanyards are what you get in low trust societies.
  • Workers throughout the Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) supply chain are being told to apply for universal credit following the cyber attack on the company, a union has said.

    Unite said staff were being laid off with "reduced or zero pay" following the hack, which has forced the carmaker to shut down its IT networks and halt production.

    Unite has called for the UK government to set up a furlough scheme, similar to the one announced by the Scottish government for bus maker Alexander Dennis
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,494
    edited September 17
    There have been American politicians who have resigned after changing parties. One that comes to mind is Phil Gramm:
    William Philip Gramm (born July 8, 1942) is an American economist and politician who represented Texas in both chambers of Congress. Though he began his political career as a Democrat, Gramm switched to the Republican Party in 1983.
    . . . .
    Just days after being reelected in 1982, Gramm was thrown off the House Budget Committee. In response, Gramm resigned his House seat on January 5, 1983. He then ran as a Republican for his own vacancy in a February 12, 1983 special election, and won easily.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phil_Gramm

    I've always admired him for that -- and always thought he was too much of a lion, and not enough of a fox, to be a top political executive.

    His wife Is interesting, too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Lee_Gramm

    (Here's a Wikipedia list of congressmen who switched parties: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_representatives_who_switched_parties )
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 7,198

    Nigelb said:

    Before anyone says "but they have to make profits", the profit margins on what are essential public utilities are insanely high.

    Analysis reveals sum equal to 24.2% of average bill taken as pre-tax profits by the major energy industries last year, rather than being reinvested
    UK public has paid £200bn to shareholders of key industries since privatisation – study
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/privatisation-premium-billions-from-uk-energy-bills-paid-to-shareholders

    Utility privatisation has been a miserable failure both for the consumer and the country.
    Capital investment wss crushed, and a large proportion of the dividends go overseas.

    I am a believed in market economics, but the utilities simply aren't subject to genuine competition.

    Time to get a grip (and Milliband is probably the last person I'd choose to do so).

    Indeed, I always thought utilities should make less profit due to less risk, so a couple of percent above what interest you could get depositing cash
    But companies don't aim for the profit they should make. Their duty is to make as much as they can get away with.
    Indeed, there is a regulatory fail there.

    Or they need to be told "you fail, you lose your shirt"
  • Jensen Huang of US chip & AI infrastructure giant Nvidia tells me for @BBCNews

    “this is the week that I declare that UK will be an AI superpower.”

    Now how many GPUs can I put you down for....
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,389
    We have to wear our ID on a lanyard when in the office.

    But the advice is to remove it before leaving in case somebody who doesn't like the company twats you.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,225
    Andy_JS said:

    Lanyards are what you get in low trust societies.

    No, lanyards are what you get when people want to make cost savings. Instead of having someone on the door checking who comes in and out, you can fire that person and make people wear lanyards. Lanyards are a result of capitalism!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 17

    Andy_JS said:

    Lanyards are what you get in low trust societies.

    No, lanyards are what you get when people want to make cost savings. Instead of having someone on the door checking who comes in and out, you can fire that person and make people wear lanyards. Lanyards are a result of capitalism!
    Except its not. Most offices still employ front desk / security. What it allows for is companies to control who can enter where in a building and often even if an outsider gets through the outer door by trailing somebody, to get through 3-4 to somewhere sensitive becomes highly unlikely. And if you do sack somebody you can instantly cut off their access. And from employees perspective you don't have to queue up to be signed in by the security bloke.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,446
    Nigelb said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    FPT...

    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    algarkirk said:

    https://x.com/cllr_thomas/status/1967894303151206627?s=19

    Reform councillor walks out of local council meeting because they didnt acknowledge the death of a US political figure.
    Odd. Its Torfaen council, why would they?

    Indication though of what a Reform government is going to like and driven by. It is UK's Trump 2.0 and it is going to be disaster for this country and its institutions and all those dancing around in joyful anticipation of Nigel as PM are profoundly wrong.
    As much as we love our centrist Dads here, my thoughts on Reform are they will drift back as they drive away the Centre Right Grandpas and Grandmas
    How Reform plan to win and how Reform will govern are two separate questions. Neither has a clear answer and both should be issues for intense journalistic scrutiny.

    The second question is more important. Assuming we can put on one side a Reform government going Trumpian and seeking to prevent further free and fair elections (and IMO we can dismiss that) then the probability is that they will govern in such a way as to try to win a subsequent election in 4/5 years time. This imposes a very considerable limit on what they can do. They will continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS, housing including social housing, free education, not having a series of fiscal/debt crises, the welfare state and a reasonable supply of jobs provided by someone else. (Try asking the people of Clacton what they want in addition to fewer brown faces).

    This describes a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy. This is possible to do with fairly tightly closed borders, as is clearly Reform's policy. I suggest this (underneath all sorts of evasive rhetoric) is exactly what they will try to do.

    Whether it can be done is a question for Reform to answer, but not only Reform.
    I remain somewhat sceptical of this analysis.

    Firstly, Farage admires Trump. He still admires Trump while Trump is busy dismantling democratic norms in the US. This suggests to me that Farage would, given the opportunity, do just as much to dismantle democratic norms.

    Reform UK may well "continue to need the votes of people who rely on pensions, low inflation, NHS" etc. But that doesn't mean they won't enact policies counter to those voters' interests. The point is that they've drunk their own Kool-Aid. They believe that their policies will work. They won't, but as long they believe they'll work, they'll still introduce them. And if it looks like they aren't working, they'll just stop publishing the statistics that say that, as Trump has.

    Your analysis that satisfying their voters' expectations will require "a high spend and high tax society in a social democracy" is correct, but that doesn't mean Reform will aim for that. Plenty of radical right populists have gotten into power and enacted stupid policies counter to their voters' interests (e.g., Trump, Erdoğan, Milei... and perhaps one could include Putin too). Some radical right populists have bent to reality more (Meloni?), so is Farage more a Trump or a Meloni?
    Lol.

    Millei has done more for his people than any Argentine politician in living memory....
    The recent Buenos Aries elections suggest that much of the Argentinian electorate don't share that view.
    Parish council elections. I don't think they'll make much difference.

    CentristDadism is over, as evidenced by the failure of Sunak, the failure of Biden, the failure of repeated French govts etc etc

    Millei-esque politics will IMO end up being elected or imposed upon us here, as the burden of debt and entitlements continues to drag down our country.
    They are not parish council elections. They are the highest level of election below the national parliament. The electorate is about 50% of the full Argentine electorate. Milei's party underperformed polls. The Argentine peso notably sank after the result precisely because it was a bad result for Milei.

    The world is not divided between radical right politicians like Milei and CentristDadism. Don't be silly. Radical right parties have had success and failures. They advanced in the recent Norwegian general election, but lost the election to the centre-left. They fell back in Poland in June, losing to a centrist. The centre-left also won in South Korea that month. And so on.

    The UK economy is nothing like the Argentinian one and Milei-esque politics are not going to be needed or wanted.

    And it's Milei, one 'l'. If you're going to hero-worship the guy, learn to spell his name.
    Oh do get a sense of humour - the parish council jibe is a reference to local elections long used here and elsewhere.

    I didn't say it the world was divided between the failed Social Dadocracy and Milleism - but that I suspect the latter will likely imposed upon us if we don't vote for it first, by the IMF
    The idea that we are going to have to go to IMF is some weird sexual fantasy that some on the right have, a throwback to the 1970s, with very little basis in the modern world. It's like thinking that a new Carry On film would be a big success.
    It has *literally* been mooted by serious economists

    Just because the lanyard class know they'll be the first for the job cuts, they tend to stick their fingers in their ears about it.
    I wear a lanyard to work. Everybody who works in an office wears a lanyard to work. That's millions of people.
    Doesn't change the fact that lanyards ought to be abolished completely.
    We've replaced lanyards with employee tattoos. The embedded QR codes enable employees access appropriate areas using door scanners and to pay for things in the company canteen.

    It's been a big success, plus it's a real opportunity for employees to show loyalty.
    Forearms or foreheads ?
    That's up to the employee: but obviously going with the forehead really shows how committed they are to Just, while the forearm suggests that maybe they don't value the opportunity we've given them as much as they should.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,446

    We have to wear our ID on a lanyard when in the office.

    But the advice is to remove it before leaving in case somebody who doesn't like the company twats you.

    Sandy Rentool works for the Labour Party.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,244
    If they're going to make the UK an AI superpower do they know how much electricity costs in the UK?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,285
    edited September 17
    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Folk expecting the politics of Milei from a Reform government are destined to be sadly disappointed.

    Kemi has promised that anyway
    https://www.kemibadenoch.org.uk/news/ft-interview-tory-leader-kemi-badenoch-says-she-britains-javier-milei
    Is that like how Dave promised immigration in the tens of thousands? And to “pay down our debt”?
    The deficit fell under Cameron's Coalition and of course Cameron was a Remainer, it was UKIP in 2010 and 2015 the main anti immigration party.

    The deficit in the UK was 10% in 2010, 2% in 2016
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 47,118
    A company I used to work for reorganised into Battling Business Units. (*) We could not access other business units without permission, and access was controlled by lanyards. The toilet doors were also lanyard-controlled, which was annoying if you needed to go and your lanyard was on your desk at the other end of the building.

    (*) The entire thing was stupid, inefficient and wasteful. After a couple of years the idea was scrapped and we all became one unit again, and I had the lovely task of merging the separate codebases. Where there were lots of places where the work had bene done twice by the different BBUs...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    HYUFD said:

    moonshine said:

    HYUFD said:

    dixiedean said:

    Folk expecting the politics of Milei from a Reform government are destined to be sadly disappointed.

    Kemi has promised that anyway
    https://www.kemibadenoch.org.uk/news/ft-interview-tory-leader-kemi-badenoch-says-she-britains-javier-milei
    Is that like how Dave promised immigration in the tens of thousands? And to “pay down our debt”?
    The deficit fell under Cameron's Coalition and of course Cameron was a Remainer, it was UKIP in 2010 and 2015 the main anti immigration party.

    The deficit in the UK was 10% in 2010, 2% in 2016
    And in 2019, by the referendum, we were in an extremely modest surplus. All achieved without a recession. Just an incredible achievement of economic management for which I give far more credit to Osborne than Cameron. And exactly what we need today. I am not optimistic there will be a repeat.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,282
    https://x.com/Telegraph/status/1968364379163795873?s=19

    Who doesnt love a good old trans row?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 17
    How Apple Designed iOS 26.....liquid ass...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvTucRvIQ2U
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,084
    I haven't seen a more positive BBC News for Starmer for over a year! Maybe he's not such a fool after all. Maybe this is the restart Labour have been waiting for has started.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,257
    TOPPING said:

    I don't know what the deal with her is but Melania sure is as cool as fuck.

    The most beautiful First Lady in the era of photography?

    Probably. Even more beatiful than Jackie K Onassis (who was very very lovely)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,446
    Nigelb said:

    Before anyone says "but they have to make profits", the profit margins on what are essential public utilities are insanely high.

    Analysis reveals sum equal to 24.2% of average bill taken as pre-tax profits by the major energy industries last year, rather than being reinvested
    UK public has paid £200bn to shareholders of key industries since privatisation – study
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/privatisation-premium-billions-from-uk-energy-bills-paid-to-shareholders

    Utility privatisation has been a miserable failure both for the consumer and the country.
    Capital investment wss crushed, and a large proportion of the dividends go overseas.

    I am a believed in market economics, but the utilities simply aren't subject to genuine competition.

    Time to get a grip (and Milliband is probably the last person I'd choose to do so).

    That's economically illilterate from the Guardian, as accounting doesn't work like that.

    It's entirely possible to have lots of profits and for investment to exceed those profits.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,257
    Roger said:

    I haven't seen a more positive BBC News for Starmer for over a year! Maybe he's not such a fool after all. Maybe this is the restart Labour have been waiting for has started.

    Ahahahahahahahahaha

    Hahahahahah

    Hahahahahahahha I think I just puked a bit from laughing
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    edited September 17
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I don't know what the deal with her is but Melania sure is as cool as fuck.

    The most beautiful First Lady in the era of photography?

    Probably. Even more beatiful than Jackie K Onassis (who was very very lovely)
    Not even close. I mean, bloody hell.

    In fairness to Melania when JFK was killed Jackie was 34, 21 years younger than Melania is now.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,494
    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    Paris? Or perhaps some hotel accommodation close by the airport. Have to maintain standards.

    And remember that article on Britannia Hotels which showed the (4 star?) Metropole in Blackpool. I know someone that worked that hotel. They could never make it pay so never upgraded. They also had frequent outbreaks of norovirus. Presume things have improved since it last took in paying guests.




  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,257
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I don't know what the deal with her is but Melania sure is as cool as fuck.

    The most beautiful First Lady in the era of photography?

    Probably. Even more beatiful than Jackie K Onassis (who was very very lovely)
    Not even close. I mean, bloody hell.
    Not even close… which way?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,757
    Roger said:

    I haven't seen a more positive BBC News for Starmer for over a year! Maybe he's not such a fool after all. Maybe this is the restart Labour have been waiting for has started.

    Positive for sucking up to Trump? Labour members must be loving it.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I don't know what the deal with her is but Melania sure is as cool as fuck.

    The most beautiful First Lady in the era of photography?

    Probably. Even more beatiful than Jackie K Onassis (who was very very lovely)
    Not even close. I mean, bloody hell.
    Not even close… which way?
    Probably answered with my edit but Jackie Kennedy in 1963 was 34 and could have been a professional model. Melania Trump is currently 55 and seems to hide under her hat the entire time, possibly from her husband. She's a good looking woman for her age no doubt but you are not comparing like with like.
  • Nigelb said:

    Before anyone says "but they have to make profits", the profit margins on what are essential public utilities are insanely high.

    Analysis reveals sum equal to 24.2% of average bill taken as pre-tax profits by the major energy industries last year, rather than being reinvested
    UK public has paid £200bn to shareholders of key industries since privatisation – study
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/privatisation-premium-billions-from-uk-energy-bills-paid-to-shareholders

    Utility privatisation has been a miserable failure both for the consumer and the country.
    Capital investment wss crushed, and a large proportion of the dividends go overseas.

    I am a believed in market economics, but the utilities simply aren't subject to genuine competition.

    Time to get a grip (and Milliband is probably the last person I'd choose to do so).

    Indeed, I always thought utilities should make less profit due to less risk, so a couple of percent above what interest you could get depositing cash
    But investment would drop off a cliff. since they would be competing for public funds with skools 'n' 'ospitals.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,867
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    How many Not Proven verdicts are there? And does this mean that it will be abolished before any Sturgeon trial? I thought they rather liked it.

    Random Factoid.

    There is a brand of wind turbines called Proven. If they went bust they would be Not Proven. Wonderfully, the founder was called Gordon Proven.

    They are Scottish, so the cutoff wind speed (when it stops itself to avoid damage) is about 160mph, rather than the more normal 60mph.

    Tut, Ms Sturgeon has not been charged, you'd better amend that name.
    Carefully phrased to include the possibility of no trial :wink: .
    But also to include the possibility of a trial, which has been ruled out (cos [edit] no charges). Unless you claim to know something we don't? Not fair on OGH.
    If that's a "no charges will be made" determination (I had not thought we were that far along), then I withdraw the statement.

    We can't have TSE locked up in the deepest dungeon of Edinburgh Castle.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,257
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I don't know what the deal with her is but Melania sure is as cool as fuck.

    The most beautiful First Lady in the era of photography?

    Probably. Even more beatiful than Jackie K Onassis (who was very very lovely)
    Not even close. I mean, bloody hell.
    Not even close… which way?
    Probably answered with my edit but Jackie Kennedy in 1963 was 34 and could have been a professional model. Melania Trump is currently 55 and seems to hide under her hat the entire time, possibly from her husband. She's a good looking woman for her age no doubt but you are not comparing like with like.
    Well you’ve just answered your own silly point. Melania is still a striking woman - and cool as @TOPPING says - but look at her in her 20s and 30s. Absolutely stunning. A world class beauty

    Notably more beautiful than Jackie K (and, as I say, she was herself a 9 peach)
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,392
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Before anyone says "but they have to make profits", the profit margins on what are essential public utilities are insanely high.

    Analysis reveals sum equal to 24.2% of average bill taken as pre-tax profits by the major energy industries last year, rather than being reinvested
    UK public has paid £200bn to shareholders of key industries since privatisation – study
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/privatisation-premium-billions-from-uk-energy-bills-paid-to-shareholders

    Utility privatisation has been a miserable failure both for the consumer and the country.
    Capital investment wss crushed, and a large proportion of the dividends go overseas.

    I am a believed in market economics, but the utilities simply aren't subject to genuine competition.

    Time to get a grip (and Milliband is probably the last person I'd choose to do so).

    That's economically illilterate from the Guardian, as accounting doesn't work like that.

    It's entirely possible to have lots of profits and for investment to exceed those profits.
    Yes, but you can't invest what you pay out in dividends.
  • Roger said:

    I haven't seen a more positive BBC News for Starmer for over a year! Maybe he's not such a fool after all. Maybe this is the restart Labour have been waiting for has started.

    Starmer at the events this afternoon frankly looked haunted and certainly not as he was

    The press pack are already saying the press conference tomorrow is going to go on Mandelson- Epstein- Trump and they do not seem to be able to contain their glee

    Certainly Starmer remains extremely unpopular and an appearance on TV is not going to change that
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,651
    edited September 17
    I think it was MaxPB that was tipping Kate Lam for future Tory leader. Looks like she is starting down the route of doing the right wing podcast circuit.

    "Am I Allowed to Say What I Think?" Katie Lam on Free Speech and Censorship
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhCadyvSSiw
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I don't know what the deal with her is but Melania sure is as cool as fuck.

    The most beautiful First Lady in the era of photography?

    Probably. Even more beatiful than Jackie K Onassis (who was very very lovely)
    Not even close. I mean, bloody hell.
    Not even close… which way?
    Probably answered with my edit but Jackie Kennedy in 1963 was 34 and could have been a professional model. Melania Trump is currently 55 and seems to hide under her hat the entire time, possibly from her husband. She's a good looking woman for her age no doubt but you are not comparing like with like.
    Well you’ve just answered your own silly point. Melania is still a striking woman - and cool as @TOPPING says - but look at her in her 20s and 30s. Absolutely stunning. A world class beauty

    Notably more beautiful than Jackie K (and, as I say, she was herself a 9 peach)
    You said she was the most beautiful First Lady. I do not deny that she was stunning when she was the same age as Jackie was when she was First Lady. But that is not what you said.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,392
    DavidL said:

    Good.

    Plans to scrap Scotland's controversial not proven verdict have been approved by MSPs.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8rndyyp7vo

    I've told this story before but my late father was on a jury. 2 complainers, both young children. One of them absolutely crystal. The other just all over the place as a result of drugs and self harm. Totally unreliable. Corroboration came from each other and Scots law requires corroboration. The jury found the second NG and the first NP because they wanted to make clear they totally believed the girl but they could not convict without corroboration.

    I think that there is a role for it and I say it as a prosecutor. The onus of proof is on the Crown. If we cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt then not proven is the correct verdict. Personally, if we had to choose, I would abolish NG.

    The quid pro quo of this is that rather than needing 8 votes for guilty out of 15 I will now need 10. Let's just say that I am glad I am not facing that hurdle in the case where the Jury will decide tomorrow.
    Surely as a prosecutor you're trying to abolish both NG and NP?
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
    Don't tell Ed Miliband, but I prefer flying from smaller airports with only carry on....if you go on the first flights out in the morning, I find I can arrive an hour before my flight, walk straight through the security as very quiet at say 4am and at the other end straight out the door in a few minutes. Even from Heathrow if you get the first flights out can still be very quiet.
    On Ed Miliband I see he is endorsing Lucy Powell no doubt still smarting from Starmer wanting to demote him
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,392
    HYUFD said:

    Good.

    Plans to scrap Scotland's controversial not proven verdict have been approved by MSPs.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8rndyyp7vo

    May lead to more guilty verdicts
    We'll see. Not proven as yet.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,257
    edited September 17
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I don't know what the deal with her is but Melania sure is as cool as fuck.

    The most beautiful First Lady in the era of photography?

    Probably. Even more beatiful than Jackie K Onassis (who was very very lovely)
    Not even close. I mean, bloody hell.
    Not even close… which way?
    Probably answered with my edit but Jackie Kennedy in 1963 was 34 and could have been a professional model. Melania Trump is currently 55 and seems to hide under her hat the entire time, possibly from her husband. She's a good looking woman for her age no doubt but you are not comparing like with like.
    Well you’ve just answered your own silly point. Melania is still a striking woman - and cool as @TOPPING says - but look at her in her 20s and 30s. Absolutely stunning. A world class beauty

    Notably more beautiful than Jackie K (and, as I say, she was herself a 9 peach)
    You said she was the most beautiful First Lady. I do not deny that she was stunning when she was the same age as Jackie was when she was First Lady. But that is not what you said.
    Ah ok. Then fair enough. It’s much closer

    And maybe Jackie edges it. I think Jackie did do some modelling
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Good.

    Plans to scrap Scotland's controversial not proven verdict have been approved by MSPs.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8rndyyp7vo

    I've told this story before but my late father was on a jury. 2 complainers, both young children. One of them absolutely crystal. The other just all over the place as a result of drugs and self harm. Totally unreliable. Corroboration came from each other and Scots law requires corroboration. The jury found the second NG and the first NP because they wanted to make clear they totally believed the girl but they could not convict without corroboration.

    I think that there is a role for it and I say it as a prosecutor. The onus of proof is on the Crown. If we cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt then not proven is the correct verdict. Personally, if we had to choose, I would abolish NG.

    The quid pro quo of this is that rather than needing 8 votes for guilty out of 15 I will now need 10. Let's just say that I am glad I am not facing that hurdle in the case where the Jury will decide tomorrow.
    Surely as a prosecutor you're trying to abolish both NG and NP?
    I know you are joking but absolutely not. I genuinely believe that we prosecute in the public interest. As I say in every speech it is not in the public interest that innocent people are found as guilty. My own view is that, if anything, changes in the recent years have changed the balance too far in favour of the Crown but that, of course, is not the party line I am obliged to put forward in my work.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,439

    We have to wear our ID on a lanyard when in the office.

    But the advice is to remove it before leaving in case somebody who doesn't like the company twats you.

    Our office security passes are now available as an app on your phone. So no lanyard or physical pass needed at all.

    This was helpful in reducing the number of items I carry with me to three: phone, headphones and keys. Albeit today I forgot my keys.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,446
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Before anyone says "but they have to make profits", the profit margins on what are essential public utilities are insanely high.

    Analysis reveals sum equal to 24.2% of average bill taken as pre-tax profits by the major energy industries last year, rather than being reinvested
    UK public has paid £200bn to shareholders of key industries since privatisation – study
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/privatisation-premium-billions-from-uk-energy-bills-paid-to-shareholders

    Utility privatisation has been a miserable failure both for the consumer and the country.
    Capital investment wss crushed, and a large proportion of the dividends go overseas.

    I am a believed in market economics, but the utilities simply aren't subject to genuine competition.

    Time to get a grip (and Milliband is probably the last person I'd choose to do so).

    That's economically illilterate from the Guardian, as accounting doesn't work like that.

    It's entirely possible to have lots of profits and for investment to exceed those profits.
    Yes, but you can't invest what you pay out in dividends.
    That's not necessarily true. Plenty of companies will have profits of 100, investment of 120, and dividends of 40.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,947

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
    Don't tell Ed Miliband, but I prefer flying from smaller airports with only carry on....if you go on the first flights out in the morning, I find I can arrive an hour before my flight, walk straight through the security as very quiet at say 4am and at the other end straight out the door in a few minutes. Even from Heathrow if you get the first flights out can still be very quiet.
    On Ed Miliband I see he is endorsing Lucy Powell no doubt still smarting from Starmer wanting to demote him
    With EdM and Burnham behind her what could go wrong?

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,392

    I think it was MaxPB that was tipping Kate Lam for future Tory leader. Looks like she is starting down the route of doing the right wing podcast circuit.

    "Am I Allowed to Say What I Think?" Katie Lam on Free Speech and Censorship
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhCadyvSSiw

    "If you must. Just let me find my ear muffs"
  • Ratters said:

    We have to wear our ID on a lanyard when in the office.

    But the advice is to remove it before leaving in case somebody who doesn't like the company twats you.

    Our office security passes are now available as an app on your phone. So no lanyard or physical pass needed at all.

    This was helpful in reducing the number of items I carry with me to three: phone, headphones and keys. Albeit today I forgot my keys.
    Louise Haigh would be a bit screwed.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,277
    DavidL said:

    kinabalu said:

    DavidL said:

    Good.

    Plans to scrap Scotland's controversial not proven verdict have been approved by MSPs.


    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy8rndyyp7vo

    I've told this story before but my late father was on a jury. 2 complainers, both young children. One of them absolutely crystal. The other just all over the place as a result of drugs and self harm. Totally unreliable. Corroboration came from each other and Scots law requires corroboration. The jury found the second NG and the first NP because they wanted to make clear they totally believed the girl but they could not convict without corroboration.

    I think that there is a role for it and I say it as a prosecutor. The onus of proof is on the Crown. If we cannot prove it beyond a reasonable doubt then not proven is the correct verdict. Personally, if we had to choose, I would abolish NG.

    The quid pro quo of this is that rather than needing 8 votes for guilty out of 15 I will now need 10. Let's just say that I am glad I am not facing that hurdle in the case where the Jury will decide tomorrow.
    Surely as a prosecutor you're trying to abolish both NG and NP?
    I know you are joking but absolutely not. I genuinely believe that we prosecute in the public interest. As I say in every speech it is not in the public interest that innocent people are found as guilty. My own view is that, if anything, changes in the recent years have changed the balance too far in favour of the Crown but that, of course, is not the party line I am obliged to put forward in my work.
    Then why do you want to abolish Not Guilty verdicts?!!!!

    I have to say I was taken aback as that was not my impression of you...
  • Omnium said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
    Don't tell Ed Miliband, but I prefer flying from smaller airports with only carry on....if you go on the first flights out in the morning, I find I can arrive an hour before my flight, walk straight through the security as very quiet at say 4am and at the other end straight out the door in a few minutes. Even from Heathrow if you get the first flights out can still be very quiet.
    On Ed Miliband I see he is endorsing Lucy Powell no doubt still smarting from Starmer wanting to demote him
    With EdM and Burnham behind her what could go wrong?

    Lucy Powell is likely to win the contest and Miliband backing her is a blow to Starmer as he is very much the members favourite Labour politician and has the influence
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
    Don't tell Ed Miliband, but I prefer flying from smaller airports with only carry on....if you go on the first flights out in the morning, I find I can arrive an hour before my flight, walk straight through the security as very quiet at say 4am and at the other end straight out the door in a few minutes. Even from Heathrow if you get the first flights out can still be very quiet.
    On Ed Miliband I see he is endorsing Lucy Powell no doubt still smarting from Starmer wanting to demote him
    It is probably simpler than that. Lucy Powell was a shadow minister under Ed Miliband.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,333

    Ratters said:

    We have to wear our ID on a lanyard when in the office.

    But the advice is to remove it before leaving in case somebody who doesn't like the company twats you.

    Our office security passes are now available as an app on your phone. So no lanyard or physical pass needed at all.

    This was helpful in reducing the number of items I carry with me to three: phone, headphones and keys. Albeit today I forgot my keys.
    Louise Haigh would be a bit screwed.
    She would be fine, a different pass for each day of the week.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,392
    rcs1000 said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Before anyone says "but they have to make profits", the profit margins on what are essential public utilities are insanely high.

    Analysis reveals sum equal to 24.2% of average bill taken as pre-tax profits by the major energy industries last year, rather than being reinvested
    UK public has paid £200bn to shareholders of key industries since privatisation – study
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/17/privatisation-premium-billions-from-uk-energy-bills-paid-to-shareholders

    Utility privatisation has been a miserable failure both for the consumer and the country.
    Capital investment wss crushed, and a large proportion of the dividends go overseas.

    I am a believed in market economics, but the utilities simply aren't subject to genuine competition.

    Time to get a grip (and Milliband is probably the last person I'd choose to do so).

    That's economically illilterate from the Guardian, as accounting doesn't work like that.

    It's entirely possible to have lots of profits and for investment to exceed those profits.
    Yes, but you can't invest what you pay out in dividends.
    That's not necessarily true. Plenty of companies will have profits of 100, investment of 120, and dividends of 40.
    Every £ of dividend is a £ not spent on something else. That's what I mean.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,506
    5 local by-elections tomorrow. At least 4 of them in very unpromising territory for Reform UK.

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/thread/19714/local-council-elections-18th-september
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,393
    On topic, do bets on this have to be in Krugerrands?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,947

    Omnium said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
    Don't tell Ed Miliband, but I prefer flying from smaller airports with only carry on....if you go on the first flights out in the morning, I find I can arrive an hour before my flight, walk straight through the security as very quiet at say 4am and at the other end straight out the door in a few minutes. Even from Heathrow if you get the first flights out can still be very quiet.
    On Ed Miliband I see he is endorsing Lucy Powell no doubt still smarting from Starmer wanting to demote him
    With EdM and Burnham behind her what could go wrong?

    Lucy Powell is likely to win the contest and Miliband backing her is a blow to Starmer as he is very much the members favourite Labour politician and has the influence
    Yes, yes, I know. Miliband the denser and Burnham the serial disappointer wouldn't be my first choices as backers though. Quite why Powell is letting these and others pontificate while she actually does the hard work of getting elected as deputy leader escapes me.

    Labour's biggest curse is the left, but their next biggest curse is that they have aspirational and foolish opportunists like the undynamic duo above.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,117
    This is amazing, in the literal sense of the word

    "The senior judge dealing with the case repeatedly asked the man's lawyers why he could not make those representations from France, including gathering any medical evidence.
    It looked and sounded like the Home Office was going to win.

    But then, as the courtroom battle dragged on, the department's own trafficking officials effectively confirmed that they would not expect the man to do that.

    That fatally undermined any hope the home secretary had of getting this 25-year-old on the 9am flight from London Heathrow."

    Just bonkers, which doughnuts are employed by the Home Office ?!?!?
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,861
    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    I don't know what the deal with her is but Melania sure is as cool as fuck.

    The most beautiful First Lady in the era of photography?

    Probably. Even more beatiful than Jackie K Onassis (who was very very lovely)
    Not even close. I mean, bloody hell.
    Not even close… which way?
    Probably answered with my edit but Jackie Kennedy in 1963 was 34 and could have been a professional model. Melania Trump is currently 55 and seems to hide under her hat the entire time, possibly from her husband. She's a good looking woman for her age no doubt but you are not comparing like with like.
    Well you’ve just answered your own silly point. Melania is still a striking woman - and cool as @TOPPING says - but look at her in her 20s and 30s. Absolutely stunning. A world class beauty

    Notably more beautiful than Jackie K (and, as I say, she was herself a 9 peach)
    You said she was the most beautiful First Lady. I do not deny that she was stunning when she was the same age as Jackie was when she was First Lady. But that is not what you said.
    She reminds me of the woman on the sandemans port label.
  • Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    Foss said:

    Dopermean said:

    RobD said:

    Mortimer said:

    More deportation flights planned for Labour's ‘one-in, one-out’ scheme took off without a single migrant on board again today.

    A scheduled Air France flight from London Heathrow this morning departed with no Channel migrants aboard. And migrants were also absent from another aircraft this afternoon which had previously been pinpointed by a French charity as a Home Office removals flight.

    This is an absolute joke
    Good on the judges for blocking these flights. Who in their right mind could support deporting them to that war-torn hellscape is beyond me.
    Quite. France is a hell hole for migrants according to the aid agencies etc.

    A country like that is a failed state. A failed state with oil.

    Are you thinking what I’m thinking, children?
    Frankly I'm horrified! And am glad the flights have been stopped, it's inexcusable.
    They should use the tunnel or ferries.
    It is a very odd decision why they must fly people back to France.
    It increases the cost to benefit ratio and so makes it easier to attack as pointless.
    They are trying to get the people away from Calais, and Paris is likely where the French want them being sent to. Both make planes the preferred choice
    I am not sure commercial flights from Heathrow to Paris are easier than using Eurostar, are they?

    If you were serious, couldn't you also just have a dedicated coach on the back of the Eurostar for those being deported, so you don't even need to worry about how to deal possible issues around public safety (or public being twats and causing a scene to stop the flight, as they have in the past).
    Clearly you’ve never been on a Eurostar nor near Gare du Nord recently. Airports are built for this type of thing, St Pancras not so much
    Paris...By train....god no...I've been to Paris, its a shit hole full of rude French people....And Gare du Nord in particular is shitty of shit holes.

    More seriously, I haven't used the Eurostar in donkey years. I don't have any real reason to.
    It does go to Brussels, which is considerably more fun and only an hour from some nice Belgian towns and cities
    Don't tell Ed Miliband, but I prefer flying from smaller airports with only carry on....if you go on the first flights out in the morning, I find I can arrive an hour before my flight, walk straight through the security as very quiet at say 4am and at the other end straight out the door in a few minutes. Even from Heathrow if you get the first flights out can still be very quiet.
    On Ed Miliband I see he is endorsing Lucy Powell no doubt still smarting from Starmer wanting to demote him
    With EdM and Burnham behind her what could go wrong?

    Lucy Powell is likely to win the contest and Miliband backing her is a blow to Starmer as he is very much the members favourite Labour politician and has the influence
    Yes, yes, I know. Miliband the denser and Burnham the serial disappointer wouldn't be my first choices as backers though. Quite why Powell is letting these and others pontificate while she actually does the hard work of getting elected as deputy leader escapes me.

    Labour's biggest curse is the left, but their next biggest curse is that they have aspirational and foolish opportunists like the undynamic duo above.
    Why do you think that Burnham is so popular in Manchester ?

    What causes that ?
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