Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
You've missed the other issue - his chancellor is the 3rd worst I've seen in my lifetime. And the other 2 set really low bars as they are Kwasi Kwarteng and Jeremy Hunt.
And Jeremy Hunt was politically a great Chancellor - but given it was obvious he was going he really shouldn't have shat on the future with his NI cuts.
His "NI cuts" that were a tax rise?
I don't get why you have this hard on for that when you know full well Hunt increased taxes rather than cut them, you're little better than HYUFD with this false obsession.
Off thread: Daughter #3 did the eleven plus today. We don't really expect her to pass. When her oldest sister did it passing was the preserve of the top 25%, now it's significantly harder. And, what with the ADHD, she faces her own challenges. Still, she did her best and - in contrast to many - didn't come out crying. She didn't panic when unfamiliar material came up. So I'm proud of her. We'll now be £2-3k a year better off as six years of paying for tutors (two years for each child).
I'm pretty ambivalent about the grammar school system. The whole process of what ten year olds in Trafford (and adjacent postcodes) have to go through seems ridiculous and ridiculously costly. Still, we've done pretty well out of it: my oldest two have ended up at what are probably the right schools for them; my youngest will probably also end up at the right school for her (indeed, if she does have, it will cause us a problem, so memtally geared are we all to the local High school).
Anyway - the rest of year 6 will be a breeze now. What did she choose for her post-11+ treat? A small box of Ferrero Rocher.
Best of luck to her.
Seems odd to hear of the 'eleven plus' these days.
Still decides every secondary attended in Kent, Bucks and Lincolnshire, as well as grammar entry in Chelmsford, Colchester, Southend, Bromley, Redbridge, Kingston Upon Thames, Poole, Trafford and Ripon and Rugby.
Grammars along with selective private schools still dominate the top 100 schools for Oxbridge entry and hence entry to the top of the most elite professions.
There are also grammars in Wirral, and some in Lancashire. I will be interested to hear your views on education over the forthcoming years as you encounter it as a parent.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
As I keep saying Starmer is rubbish at politics, worse than Sunak, not quite at Truss levels but I would no longer rule that out as a possibility. He's a nullity. Perhaps competent and able, but what's he PM for? What does he really believe? Can he actually lead? Can he ever get ahead of events? He's another bloody PM in a string of them who seems to have thought "I'd be good at that" but hasn't either the self-honesty or intellect to see their own flaws should preclude them from taking the job.
God help us if we end up with a Biden like scenario where his dithering leads to a defeat handing power over to someone actually malign.
Spencer Hakimian @SpencerHakimian · 1h “We depend on the Chinese market. And right now we have zero sold. It's a 5 alarm fire for our industry. The Chinese are going elsewhere. American soybean farmers and their families are suffering.” - American Soybean Farmer
The farmer is from Kentucky. 64% vote for Trump 2.0.
He told you he wanted tariffs.
You make your choices and you live by them.
Worth reading the reply beneath, the Soybean market is not a global market and as the Chinese are the only buyers if they aren't buying those farmers are screwed.
In a free market, businesses can fail. Remarkable how many think that should apply to everyone else but not them or their industry. 🎻
Oh I know that and a couple of bad harvests will destroy a farm but this is something else - Brazil hasn't had a massive harvest and I don't believe demand has changed that much so it feels the sort of hidden political thing that only some countries can pull off.
Off thread: Daughter #3 did the eleven plus today. We don't really expect her to pass. When her oldest sister did it passing was the preserve of the top 25%, now it's significantly harder. And, what with the ADHD, she faces her own challenges. Still, she did her best and - in contrast to many - didn't come out crying. She didn't panic when unfamiliar material came up. So I'm proud of her. We'll now be £2-3k a year better off as six years of paying for tutors (two years for each child).
I'm pretty ambivalent about the grammar school system. The whole process of what ten year olds in Trafford (and adjacent postcodes) have to go through seems ridiculous and ridiculously costly. Still, we've done pretty well out of it: my oldest two have ended up at what are probably the right schools for them; my youngest will probably also end up at the right school for her (indeed, if she does have, it will cause us a problem, so memtally geared are we all to the local High school).
Anyway - the rest of year 6 will be a breeze now. What did she choose for her post-11+ treat? A small box of Ferrero Rocher.
Best of luck to her.
Seems odd to hear of the 'eleven plus' these days.
Still decides every secondary attended in Kent, Bucks and Lincolnshire, as well as grammar entry in Chelmsford, Colchester, Southend, Bromley, Redbridge, Kingston Upon Thames, Poole, Trafford and Ripon and Rugby.
Grammars along with selective private schools still dominate the top 100 schools for Oxbridge entry and hence entry to the top of the most elite professions.
None in Essex? I will be interested to hear your views on education over the forthcoming years as you encounter it as a parent.
Last time I checked Chelmsford and Colchester were in Essex, as was Southend ceremonially.
The schools in the former 2 are in the top 100 for Oxbridge entry, we have a good C of E rural primary here and are in the catchment area for Chelmsford grammar if our child is bright enough
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
Bizarrely, I agree with @isam. I try to listen to those politicians who put their thoughts into some kind of order (lectures between 30 and 60 mins are my fave and I've just listened to Steve Baker's podcast[1]) but try as I might I can't listen to Starmer. It's not just his policies or his liability to pout and get upset, it's his flipping voice! He has the kind of voice that's very difficult to focus on, and even worse actually makes you want to stop listening. When was the last Labour politician it was a pleasure to listen to? Kinnock? Benn? Even Brown could do it.
[1] Chatty rather than informative. It was an interview with Tom Harwood. It wasn't a bad interview but it was a bit human interest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l0Iagj72vQ
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
As I keep saying Starmer is rubbish at politics, worse than Sunak, not quite at Truss levels but I would no longer rule that out as a possibility. He's a nullity. Perhaps competent and able, but what's he PM for? What does he really believe? Can he actually lead? Can he ever get ahead of events? He's another bloody PM in a string of them who seems to have thought "I'd be good at that" but hasn't either the self-honesty or intellect to see their own flaws should preclude them from taking the job.
God help us if we end up with a Biden like scenario where his dithering leads to a defeat handing power over to someone actually malign.
Well we know who the likely winner is, the question is, is Farage malign or will he simply try his best...
Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
You've missed the other issue - his chancellor is the 3rd worst I've seen in my lifetime. And the other 2 set really low bars as they are Kwasi Kwarteng and Jeremy Hunt.
And Jeremy Hunt was politically a great Chancellor - but given it was obvious he was going he really shouldn't have shat on the future with his NI cuts.
His "NI cuts" that were a tax rise?
I don't get why you have this hard on for that when you know full well Hunt increased taxes rather than cut them, you're little better than HYUFD with this false obsession.
Yes he increased taxes but he didn't increase them by the amount required to cover real government spending instead of the fantasy the estimates were based on.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Robinson is, yes. That's my point.
The problem is the words are used so often against people who are not that to many people now they've lost their meaning. Which is a shame, as people like Robinson etc suit the meaning and are the actual wolves but many people just tune it all out now.
Finally, if you want to get more active in Your Party and help members take the lead then we need you to help run the regional assemblies. Sign up here to become a facilitator and help ensure we have fun, energising and inclusive conversations at these massive regional assemblies. We’ll be offering online training in advance.
Sign up to become a facilitator
Reject the drive to war. The rush to cut wages. The clamour to slash services. The attempts to divide us.
Fight for a different future: For your class and your community. This is your chance to be part of something new. Something different.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
So they're not all Nazis, is what you're saying?
I haven't called any of them Nazis, not even "Tommy Robinson" himself.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Or, or they don't care about any of the speakers and they just want to march against mass immigration and erosion of our culture. One of my school friends went on the march, he's Jewish and said that he felt much, much safer on the supposed "far right" side of the march than when he walked through the other side of it to get there. Excuse me if I take the word of someone who actually went, is a currently persecuted minority and told us all that he was very welcome at the Unite the Kingdom march.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
Trump to Hegseth: "Get ready because you'll be doing a lot of other places that are almost as troubled [as Memphis]. Some of them are equal. If you look at what's going on in Baltimore where the governor was telling me how wonderful it is and you can't walk across the street without being shot."
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Has Jezza specified which Sept, Oct and Nov?
Snide remark aside, the snails pace will kill off any momentum they may have had. Polanskis nicked it
Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
You've missed the other issue - his chancellor is the 3rd worst I've seen in my lifetime. And the other 2 set really low bars as they are Kwasi Kwarteng and Jeremy Hunt.
And Jeremy Hunt was politically a great Chancellor - but given it was obvious he was going he really shouldn't have shat on the future with his NI cuts.
His "NI cuts" that were a tax rise?
I don't get why you have this hard on for that when you know full well Hunt increased taxes rather than cut them, you're little better than HYUFD with this false obsession.
Yes he increased taxes but he didn't increase them by the amount required to cover real government spending instead of the fantasy the estimates were based on.
No, but he increased them net yet you keep misleadingly implying he cut them, that he shat on the future. Bullshit, and you know it.
You seem to have a real bug up your arse about the NI change, yet if he had never touched ICT and NIC thresholds and rates then the deficit would be worse, not better.
Off thread: Daughter #3 did the eleven plus today. We don't really expect her to pass. When her oldest sister did it passing was the preserve of the top 25%, now it's significantly harder. And, what with the ADHD, she faces her own challenges. Still, she did her best and - in contrast to many - didn't come out crying. She didn't panic when unfamiliar material came up. So I'm proud of her. We'll now be £2-3k a year better off as six years of paying for tutors (two years for each child).
I'm pretty ambivalent about the grammar school system. The whole process of what ten year olds in Trafford (and adjacent postcodes) have to go through seems ridiculous and ridiculously costly. Still, we've done pretty well out of it: my oldest two have ended up at what are probably the right schools for them; my youngest will probably also end up at the right school for her (indeed, if she does have, it will cause us a problem, so memtally geared are we all to the local High school).
Anyway - the rest of year 6 will be a breeze now. What did she choose for her post-11+ treat? A small box of Ferrero Rocher.
Best of luck to her.
Seems odd to hear of the 'eleven plus' these days.
Still decides every secondary attended in Kent, Bucks and Lincolnshire, as well as grammar entry in Chelmsford, Colchester, Southend, Bromley, Redbridge, Kingston Upon Thames, Poole, Trafford and Ripon and Rugby.
Grammars along with selective private schools still dominate the top 100 schools for Oxbridge entry and hence entry to the top of the most elite professions.
None in Essex? I will be interested to hear your views on education over the forthcoming years as you encounter it as a parent.
Last time I checked Chelmsford and Colchester were in Essex, as was Southend ceremonially.
The schools in the former 2 are in the top 100 for Oxbridge entry, we have a good C of E rural primary here and are in the catchment area for Chelmsford grammar if our child is bright enough
Yeah, sorry, I was looking for the word 'Essex' in the post and missed the towns. I edited my post.
Instinctively, it feels like grammars work better in small urban authorities like Trafford, where there are typically three or four schools within a couple of miles so travelling to not-your-nearest school isn't much of a barrier. We have five grammar schools (albeit two are single sex) for quarter of a million of us.
Never ebtirely straightforward to navigate, whatever tbe system, but I'm sure you will work out the best route for your family.
Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
You've missed the other issue - his chancellor is the 3rd worst I've seen in my lifetime. And the other 2 set really low bars as they are Kwasi Kwarteng and Jeremy Hunt.
And Jeremy Hunt was politically a great Chancellor - but given it was obvious he was going he really shouldn't have shat on the future with his NI cuts.
His "NI cuts" that were a tax rise?
I don't get why you have this hard on for that when you know full well Hunt increased taxes rather than cut them, you're little better than HYUFD with this false obsession.
Yes he increased taxes but he didn't increase them by the amount required to cover real government spending instead of the fantasy the estimates were based on.
No, but he increased them net yet you keep misleadingly implying he cut them, that he shat on the future. Bullshit, and you know it.
You seem to have a real bug up your arse about the NI change, yet if he had never touched ICT and NIC thresholds and rates then the deficit would be worse, not better.
And it's not Hunt's fault that Labour came in and increased spending by £60bn, the Tories were on track to keep cutting the deficit. Labour have blown it out by increasing spending when they didn't need to.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Has Jezza specified which Sept, Oct and Nov?
Snide remark aside, the snails pace will kill off any momentum they may have had. Polanskis nicked it
8 people charged after 'Unite the Kingdom' protest
There really needs to be a charge of being really embarrassing and entirely failing to understand history or the way to behave.
I find all 100,000 guilty.
And there lies the problem
As Trevor Phillips has just said in an interview on Sky that he mingled with the crowd at the March and he was struck just how normal they were and certainly not of the right
He went on to say that the Labour and Conservative Party are barely at 40% combined in the polls, and that is because they are simply not relating to people’s concerns
He said the asylum hotels are a particular problem in communities where family's had either had a wedding reception there, or a celebration, or a dance, and now saw them taken over by the asylum seekers which is upsetting their communities
Now, Sir Trevor Phillips, who was once head of the Equalties and Human Rights Commissioner, is probably one of the best journalists in the media at present and is well worth listening too
You cannot simply condemn 100,000 people who may even be your neighbours, because you try to associate them with the unacceptable face of the far right because they aren't
No, no. I feel I can simply condemn them. And let it be a lesson to them!
And especially so if they are my neighbours. Rabble to a man!
Seriously the antics of these people are unacceptable. Much as the antics of the violent football fans were in the 80s and 90s. The leaders of this sort of thing should be horribly ashamed of themselves and much of their following too.
The antics of the Palestine mob similarly, and pretty much all the mobs that have ever congregated,
And so it goes on and Farage grows stronger
And only 8 arrests so far and less than expected
Could the small number of arrests be partly down to the fact that the Police appear to have been overwhelmed by the sheer numbers that turned up on the march and hence the large number of police officers who were injured during the outbreaks of violence when they clearly lost control of the situation?
24 arrests, 8 charges, by Sunday.
A number of people turned off onto Victoria Embankment to get out of the crowds which was understandable.
However, we then saw large crowds ignore police directions, turning left up Horse Guards Avenue, Whitehall Place, Northumberland Avenue and Craven Street in an effort to get into Whitehall, including into sterile areas and areas occupied by those taking part in the Stand Up To Racism protest.
When officers intervened to block their path they were assaulted with kicks and punches. Bottles, flares and other projectiles were also thrown and concerted attempts to get past barriers were made. ... “The violence they faced was wholly unacceptable. 26 officers were injured, including four seriously – among them broken teeth, a possible broken nose, a concussion, a prolapsed disc and a head injury,
I just don’t believe the police. Not any more. Fuck them
24 arrests is nothing for a 300k crowd. Notting Hill carnival had more than double the arrest rate and over 100 knives and other weapons including guns were confiscated.
The march was largely very peaceful, nothing like the hard left ones we've had in past smashing up central London, vandalising memorials and generally causing mayhem.
The liberal media mafia can't stand that there's no actual hard evidence that there was "unruly violence" so now they're just making it up with a compliant police putting out nonsense PR.
Still too early to say. As discussed yesterday and today.
it's never too early for Max to shill for the far right
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Still think Our Party would have been a better name.
I don't think it helps Starmer that he has no substantial power base or ultra-loyalists within the Labour Party. I recall reading an article mentioning that there is no such thing as "Starmerism" and that in itself is instructive, I think.
He doesn't really believe in anything (he's not even confidently wedded to pragmatism, which Blair and Thatcher both had, aside from their overarching orthodoxies). And that makes it hard to inspire loyalty.
Most other PMs had to build a base of loyal, fellow travellers within their party - look at Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Johnson - all good examples of this. Starmer instead inherited a party where the most ambitious figures were desperate to stop losing, and as a result I suspect that a lot of this iron-fisted party management style that people lauded him for was a bit of luck - in that the party was so weary of defeat people just accepted it. Compare this to New Labour, where the same desperation existed but the architects of that project realised they needed more.
This is now coming back to bite him, because now he is politically short of friends, who is there to help him? Who are his loyal lieutenants ready to ride to the rescue? Burnham clearly now sees himself as a rival. Rayner wasn't a "ride or die" ally, often on leadership manoeuvres herself. Streeting also has one eye on the top job. The closest he has is Reeves, who is also utterly discredited - and even for her, he couldn't back her in the Commons as she sobbed next to him. He also simply doesn't have the ace up his sleeve that other PMs had - the underpinning vision, the ideology, the team moving towards a common goal - that saved them and gave them allies through their darker hours.
The Starmer story is one of a man who was parachuted into the top of politics, who got very lucky but who ultimately lacks the skills that make a good political leader.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Has Jezza specified which Sept, Oct and Nov?
Snide remark aside, the snails pace will kill off any momentum they may have had. Polanskis nicked it
Does anyone know who Polanski is? Other than us old fart political geeks.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Has Jezza specified which Sept, Oct and Nov?
Snide remark aside, the snails pace will kill off any momentum they may have had. Polanskis nicked it
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Still think Our Party would have been a better name.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Still think Our Party would have been a better name.
Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
Bizarrely, I agree with @isam. I try to listen to those politicians who put their thoughts into some kind of order (lectures between 30 and 60 mins are my fave and I've just listened to Steve Baker's podcast[1]) but try as I might I can't listen to Starmer. It's not just his policies or his liability to pout and get upset, it's his flipping voice! He has the kind of voice that's very difficult to focus on, and even worse actually makes you want to stop listening. When was the last Labour politician it was a pleasure to listen to? Kinnock? Benn? Even Brown could do it.
[1] Chatty rather than informative. It was an interview with Tom Harwood. It wasn't a bad interview but it was a bit human interest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l0Iagj72vQ
We've discussed Prime Ministerial voices in the past. Personal taste and nothing to do with ability, but I would rank those I remember thus:
1. Brown 2. Truss 3. Johnson 4. Blair 5. Cameron 6. Major 7. May 8. Sunak 9. Starmer 10. Thatcher
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
So they're not all Nazis, is what you're saying?
I haven't called any of them Nazis, not even "Tommy Robinson" himself.
Musk's speech was a replacement theory call to arms, Yaxley-Lennon was fully on board.
You can call them what you like, but if they walk like a duck and quack like a duck they are ducks.
You will recall my article on the history of gambling and my threatened article on trans (which keeps being pushed back, apols, and will probably have to be published in parts if I ever get round to writing it/them). One of my points in my history of gambling was that the poor get nothing or placebos, and I think this is an example. Specifically in the Independent article (which I assume Mr Esses is referring to) Wes makes the following points:
People who want to transition spend many years on waiting lists
This is bad for their mental health
Wes is authorising £125,000 for counselling
This is a placebo. It does not fix the problem (the length of the list) but makes the queuer feel better about being in one.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Has Jezza specified which Sept, Oct and Nov?
Snide remark aside, the snails pace will kill off any momentum they may have had. Polanskis nicked it
Does anyone know who Polanski is? Other than us old fart political geeks.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Or, or they don't care about any of the speakers and they just want to march against mass immigration and erosion of our culture. One of my school friends went on the march, he's Jewish and said that he felt much, much safer on the supposed "far right" side of the march than when he walked through the other side of it to get there. Excuse me if I take the word of someone who actually went, is a currently persecuted minority and told us all that he was very welcome at the Unite the Kingdom march.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
I have been on marches where the SWP or Communists are present, but I wouldn't go on one organised by them, where they chose all the speakers.
It looks like you've chosen your side in the next Battle of Cable St. These are not nice people, they are violent thugs.
I don't think it helps Starmer that he has no substantial power base or ultra-loyalists within the Labour Party. I recall reading an article mentioning that there is no such thing as "Starmerism" and that in itself is instructive, I think.
He doesn't really believe in anything (he's not even confidently wedded to pragmatism, which Blair and Thatcher both had, aside from their overarching orthodoxies). And that makes it hard to inspire loyalty.
Most other PMs had to build a base of loyal, fellow travellers within their party - look at Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Johnson - all good examples of this. Starmer instead inherited a party where the most ambitious figures were desperate to stop losing, and as a result I suspect that a lot of this iron-fisted party management style that people lauded him for was a bit of luck - in that the party was so weary of defeat people just accepted it. Compare this to New Labour, where the same desperation existed but the architects of that project realised they needed more.
This is now coming back to bite him, because now he is politically short of friends, who is there to help him? Who are his loyal lieutenants ready to ride to the rescue? Burnham clearly now sees himself as a rival. Rayner wasn't a "ride or die" ally, often on leadership manoeuvres herself. Streeting also has one eye on the top job. The closest he has is Reeves, who is also utterly discredited - and even for her, he couldn't back her in the Commons as she sobbed next to him. He also simply doesn't have the ace up his sleeve that other PMs had - the underpinning vision, the ideology, the team moving towards a common goal - that saved them and gave them allies through their darker hours.
The Starmer story is one of a man who was parachuted into the top of politics, who got very lucky but who ultimately lacks the skills that make a good political leader.
Alternatively, anyone with these economic fundamentals would be in the same boat. No cash to spend on your promises, just despair.
I don't think it helps Starmer that he has no substantial power base or ultra-loyalists within the Labour Party. I recall reading an article mentioning that there is no such thing as "Starmerism" and that in itself is instructive, I think.
He doesn't really believe in anything (he's not even confidently wedded to pragmatism, which Blair and Thatcher both had, aside from their overarching orthodoxies). And that makes it hard to inspire loyalty.
Most other PMs had to build a base of loyal, fellow travellers within their party - look at Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Johnson - all good examples of this. Starmer instead inherited a party where the most ambitious figures were desperate to stop losing, and as a result I suspect that a lot of this iron-fisted party management style that people lauded him for was a bit of luck - in that the party was so weary of defeat people just accepted it. Compare this to New Labour, where the same desperation existed but the architects of that project realised they needed more.
This is now coming back to bite him, because now he is politically short of friends, who is there to help him? Who are his loyal lieutenants ready to ride to the rescue? Burnham clearly now sees himself as a rival. Rayner wasn't a "ride or die" ally, often on leadership manoeuvres herself. Streeting also has one eye on the top job. The closest he has is Reeves, who is also utterly discredited - and even for her, he couldn't back her in the Commons as she sobbed next to him. He also simply doesn't have the ace up his sleeve that other PMs had - the underpinning vision, the ideology, the team moving towards a common goal - that saved them and gave them allies through their darker hours.
The Starmer story is one of a man who was parachuted into the top of politics, who got very lucky but who ultimately lacks the skills that make a good political leader.
Great post. As someone on the right, I didn't vote for Labour but at the same time it is worrying for the country. If Starmer goes then that is effectively 7 failed PMs in a row - Brown, Cameron (perhaps a little unfair hear), May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak, Starmer. We badly need a good leader.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
So they're not all Nazis, is what you're saying?
I haven't called any of them Nazis, not even "Tommy Robinson" himself.
Musk's speech was a replacement theory call to arms, Yaxley-Lennon was fully on board.
You can call them what you like, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck means it's a duck.
No, I wouldn't call them Fascists or Nazis, as they lack the organisation and paramilitary uniforms etc.
Not every far right racist is a Nazi, just some of them.
So a boost for Burnham's candidate Powell then in the race to be Labour members pet, Lammy will be Deputy PM still regardless.
Terrible ratings from Starmer amongst his own members and not great for his candidate Philippson ether.
Fortunately for him he can only face a direct leadership challenge, not a VONC under Labour rules and his biggest threat, Burnham, is not an MP
A shame his Party should be turning against him for Rayner's flat and appointing Mandy. Had it been for his support for Netanyahu's genocide then we could all get behind a new leader
I don't think it helps Starmer that he has no substantial power base or ultra-loyalists within the Labour Party. I recall reading an article mentioning that there is no such thing as "Starmerism" and that in itself is instructive, I think.
He doesn't really believe in anything (he's not even confidently wedded to pragmatism, which Blair and Thatcher both had, aside from their overarching orthodoxies). And that makes it hard to inspire loyalty.
Most other PMs had to build a base of loyal, fellow travellers within their party - look at Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Johnson - all good examples of this. Starmer instead inherited a party where the most ambitious figures were desperate to stop losing, and as a result I suspect that a lot of this iron-fisted party management style that people lauded him for was a bit of luck - in that the party was so weary of defeat people just accepted it. Compare this to New Labour, where the same desperation existed but the architects of that project realised they needed more.
This is now coming back to bite him, because now he is politically short of friends, who is there to help him? Who are his loyal lieutenants ready to ride to the rescue? Burnham clearly now sees himself as a rival. Rayner wasn't a "ride or die" ally, often on leadership manoeuvres herself. Streeting also has one eye on the top job. The closest he has is Reeves, who is also utterly discredited - and even for her, he couldn't back her in the Commons as she sobbed next to him. He also simply doesn't have the ace up his sleeve that other PMs had - the underpinning vision, the ideology, the team moving towards a common goal - that saved them and gave them allies through their darker hours.
The Starmer story is one of a man who was parachuted into the top of politics, who got very lucky but who ultimately lacks the skills that make a good political leader.
He was brought in to make the party electable and then the opposition blew itself up far too early so he's ended up as PM and is now doing his best but that's it. I suspect TSE is correct he hoped to step back and eventually becomeLord Chancellor or similar.
The problem is and I know I've repeated this endlessly but everyone else is equally flawed because no one sane is going to go into politics - there are easier ways to make money and easier things to do good (for whatever definition of good you want to think about).
Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
Bizarrely, I agree with @isam. I try to listen to those politicians who put their thoughts into some kind of order (lectures between 30 and 60 mins are my fave and I've just listened to Steve Baker's podcast[1]) but try as I might I can't listen to Starmer. It's not just his policies or his liability to pout and get upset, it's his flipping voice! He has the kind of voice that's very difficult to focus on, and even worse actually makes you want to stop listening. When was the last Labour politician it was a pleasure to listen to? Kinnock? Benn? Even Brown could do it.
[1] Chatty rather than informative. It was an interview with Tom Harwood. It wasn't a bad interview but it was a bit human interest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l0Iagj72vQ
We've discussed Prime Ministerial voices in the past. Personal taste and nothing to do with ability, but I would rank those I remember thus:
1. Brown 2. Truss 3. Johnson 4. Blair 5. Cameron 6. Major 7. May 8. Sunak 9. Starmer 10. Thatcher
Unsarcastically, at which end are the ones you liked and the ones you disliked?
Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
You've missed the other issue - his chancellor is the 3rd worst I've seen in my lifetime. And the other 2 set really low bars as they are Kwasi Kwarteng and Jeremy Hunt.
And Jeremy Hunt was politically a great Chancellor - but given it was obvious he was going he really shouldn't have shat on the future with his NI cuts.
His "NI cuts" that were a tax rise?
I don't get why you have this hard on for that when you know full well Hunt increased taxes rather than cut them, you're little better than HYUFD with this false obsession.
Yes he increased taxes but he didn't increase them by the amount required to cover real government spending instead of the fantasy the estimates were based on.
No, but he increased them net yet you keep misleadingly implying he cut them, that he shat on the future. Bullshit, and you know it.
You seem to have a real bug up your arse about the NI change, yet if he had never touched ICT and NIC thresholds and rates then the deficit would be worse, not better.
The NI cuts were £20bn of tax revenue lost from a method that doesn't impact business costs. Does that figure sound familiar at all?
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
So they're not all Nazis, is what you're saying?
I haven't called any of them Nazis, not even "Tommy Robinson" himself.
Musk's speech was a replacement theory call to arms, Yaxley-Lennon was fully on board.
You can call them what you like, but if they walk like a duck and quack like a duck they are ducks.
Pretty sure the young fliers of spitfires would be against AfD, and Musk, and I presume Yaxley, are in favour of them.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Or, or they don't care about any of the speakers and they just want to march against mass immigration and erosion of our culture. One of my school friends went on the march, he's Jewish and said that he felt much, much safer on the supposed "far right" side of the march than when he walked through the other side of it to get there. Excuse me if I take the word of someone who actually went, is a currently persecuted minority and told us all that he was very welcome at the Unite the Kingdom march.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
I have been on marches where the SWP or Communists are present, but I wouldn't go on one organised by them, where they chose all the speakers.
It looks like you've chosen your side in the next Battle of Cable St. These are not nice people, they are violent thugs.
And this is your problem, I've chosen no sides. Well other than I'm 99% likely to be voting and campaigning for the Tories again. The side I'm on is whoever will bring down unskilled immigration, send the current unskilled immigrants and dependents home, stop the boats, cut spending to bring the deficit down and stop raising tax. I don't think there's any party which will do that but I expect the Tories to get close.
GB News @GBNEWS 'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Or, or they don't care about any of the speakers and they just want to march against mass immigration and erosion of our culture. One of my school friends went on the march, he's Jewish and said that he felt much, much safer on the supposed "far right" side of the march than when he walked through the other side of it to get there. Excuse me if I take the word of someone who actually went, is a currently persecuted minority and told us all that he was very welcome at the Unite the Kingdom march.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
I have been on marches where the SWP or Communists are present, but I wouldn't go on one organised by them, where they chose all the speakers.
It looks like you've chosen your side in the next Battle of Cable St. These are not nice people, they are violent thugs.
And this is your problem, I've chosen no sides. Well other than I'm 99% likely to be voting and campaigning for the Tories again. The side I'm on is whoever will bring down unskilled immigration, send the current unskilled immigrants and dependents home, stop the boats, cut spending to bring the deficit down and stop raising tax. I don't think there's any party which will do that but I expect the Tories to get close.
Problem is that unskilled immigration are skilled enough to find someone to tell them how to pass the immigration "exams".
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Or, or they don't care about any of the speakers and they just want to march against mass immigration and erosion of our culture. One of my school friends went on the march, he's Jewish and said that he felt much, much safer on the supposed "far right" side of the march than when he walked through the other side of it to get there. Excuse me if I take the word of someone who actually went, is a currently persecuted minority and told us all that he was very welcome at the Unite the Kingdom march.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
I have been on marches where the SWP or Communists are present, but I wouldn't go on one organised by them, where they chose all the speakers.
It looks like you've chosen your side in the next Battle of Cable St. These are not nice people, they are violent thugs.
And this is your problem, I've chosen no sides. Well other than I'm 99% likely to be voting and campaigning for the Tories again. The side I'm on is whoever will bring down unskilled immigration, send the current unskilled immigrants and dependents home, stop the boats, cut spending to bring the deficit down and stop raising tax. I don't think there's any party which will do that but I expect the Tories to get close.
You said you were open to going on the next march that Tommy Robinson organises. I am glad that you are already having second thoughts.
GB News @GBNEWS 'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Or, or they don't care about any of the speakers and they just want to march against mass immigration and erosion of our culture. One of my school friends went on the march, he's Jewish and said that he felt much, much safer on the supposed "far right" side of the march than when he walked through the other side of it to get there. Excuse me if I take the word of someone who actually went, is a currently persecuted minority and told us all that he was very welcome at the Unite the Kingdom march.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
I have been on marches where the SWP or Communists are present, but I wouldn't go on one organised by them, where they chose all the speakers.
It looks like you've chosen your side in the next Battle of Cable St. These are not nice people, they are violent thugs.
And this is your problem, I've chosen no sides. Well other than I'm 99% likely to be voting and campaigning for the Tories again. The side I'm on is whoever will bring down unskilled immigration, send the current unskilled immigrants and dependents home, stop the boats, cut spending to bring the deficit down and stop raising tax. I don't think there's any party which will do that but I expect the Tories to get close.
In 2010 the Tories Promised to control migration In 2015 the Tories Promised to control migration In 2017 the Tories Promised to control migration In 2019 the Tories Promised to control migration In 2024 the Tories Promised to control migration
And what did these promises lead to. an extra 11 million people added to this country. no houses built no infrastructure, no prison places and you want to put these people in again?
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Or, or they don't care about any of the speakers and they just want to march against mass immigration and erosion of our culture. One of my school friends went on the march, he's Jewish and said that he felt much, much safer on the supposed "far right" side of the march than when he walked through the other side of it to get there. Excuse me if I take the word of someone who actually went, is a currently persecuted minority and told us all that he was very welcome at the Unite the Kingdom march.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
I have been on marches where the SWP or Communists are present, but I wouldn't go on one organised by them, where they chose all the speakers.
It looks like you've chosen your side in the next Battle of Cable St. These are not nice people, they are violent thugs.
And this is your problem, I've chosen no sides. Well other than I'm 99% likely to be voting and campaigning for the Tories again. The side I'm on is whoever will bring down unskilled immigration, send the current unskilled immigrants and dependents home, stop the boats, cut spending to bring the deficit down and stop raising tax. I don't think there's any party which will do that but I expect the Tories to get close.
You said you were open to going on the next march that Tommy Robinson organises. I am glad that you are already having second thoughts.
I didn't say that?
This is what I actually said "A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one."
Where in that sentence did you pick up that I would go to the next march? I'm happy that there was a big lack of the expected violence but I wouldn't go to any march where Robinson is speaking, he's a grade A ****.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Or, or they don't care about any of the speakers and they just want to march against mass immigration and erosion of our culture. One of my school friends went on the march, he's Jewish and said that he felt much, much safer on the supposed "far right" side of the march than when he walked through the other side of it to get there. Excuse me if I take the word of someone who actually went, is a currently persecuted minority and told us all that he was very welcome at the Unite the Kingdom march.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
I have been on marches where the SWP or Communists are present, but I wouldn't go on one organised by them, where they chose all the speakers.
It looks like you've chosen your side in the next Battle of Cable St. These are not nice people, they are violent thugs.
And this is your problem, I've chosen no sides. Well other than I'm 99% likely to be voting and campaigning for the Tories again. The side I'm on is whoever will bring down unskilled immigration, send the current unskilled immigrants and dependents home, stop the boats, cut spending to bring the deficit down and stop raising tax. I don't think there's any party which will do that but I expect the Tories to get close.
You said you were open to going on the next march that Tommy Robinson organises. I am glad that you are already having second thoughts.
I didn't say that?
This is what I actually said "A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one."
Where in that sentence did you pick up that I would go to the next march? I'm happy that there was a big lack of the expected violence but I wouldn't go to any march where Robinson is speaking, he's a grade A ****.
My mis-understanding. I interpreted it that you were part of the friendship group open to going on the next march.
I am glad you are not. Tommy Robinson is not Uniting the Kingdom, he is deliberately dividing it against itself.
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But we also have actual wolves saying that, claiming they're not wolves.
No surprise whatsoever, and when labour has 59% of its members unfavourably to Starmer as well, the writing must be on the wall
It may not happen immediately but if May is as bad as most expect he will have a very serious problem
After the resignation of Angela Raynor that swiftly held Cabinet reshuffle to shore up Starmer's premiership has clearly not worked, and now following the Mandelson scandal the internal Labour plotting to oust him seems to be gathering pace.
How? Do you have a plan or are you just practicing your typing?
I would like to see Starmer go, and soon. But we have, I think, four or five posters who are just spamming the site with all this Starmer conjecture, and dear me they are dreary.
This place is not the intellectual debating society it used to be.
GB News @GBNEWS 'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
GB News @GBNEWS 'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
Miles Taylor @MilesTaylorUSA BREAKING: Trump says the US military killed 3 people in another deadly strike against "narcoterrorists" in international waters, per CNN
Tom Nichols @RadioFreeTom · 56m Hard to see how these are legal orders, but I guess we're past all that stuff now about "legal" and whatnot
Tom Nichols @RadioFreeTom · 44m Trump will never be held accountable, but somewhere in DC - at the CNO level - senior military officers accepted this order yet again and transmitted it down the chain of command instead of warning POTUS that extrajudicial execution on the high seas is not a legal order.
Has a prime minister ever had such negative polling with his own party? Extraordinary
You'd think he might say fuck it and retire
It gives me some consolation, as Britain goes down a Starmer-shaped khazi, that most sensible Britons share my outright loathing of this nauseating dork
Tipping Jess Phillips to be next Labour leader at 50/1 aside, I stand be when I said five years ago in this header, particularly…
“Last month, Keir Starmer appeared on the television in my front room to give his response to the Prime Minister’s Covid-19 statement. A few seconds later my eyes glazed over, a few more passed and I switched the tv off saying “Jesus, he is dull”. It set me thinking that in a world of Reality tv, tiktok, snapchat, (none of which I am a fan of), and general instant gratification, (which I kind of am) Starmer was too boring to be Prime Minister. Those with a keen interest in politics scrutinise policies, but it could be that a significant minority, perhaps even a small majority, of the public prefer someone they can imagine mucking in on I’m a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here.”
Fav to be next PM was indeed a contestant on said show
His dullness isn't his problem though. There's a market for dull. His problem is his incompetence. Or not really believing in anything except process. Or that even when he's telling you about sonething he really believes in - like football - he sounds insincere and inauthentic. Or his political tin ear. Or the fact he came in to office without any real plan apart from not being the Tories, assuming that was all that was needed. Or his grifting. Or his failure to understand how the private sector operates and how money is made. Or his London-centricity. Compared to all that, his lack of charisma is only a minor handicap.
Bizarrely, I agree with @isam. I try to listen to those politicians who put their thoughts into some kind of order (lectures between 30 and 60 mins are my fave and I've just listened to Steve Baker's podcast[1]) but try as I might I can't listen to Starmer. It's not just his policies or his liability to pout and get upset, it's his flipping voice! He has the kind of voice that's very difficult to focus on, and even worse actually makes you want to stop listening. When was the last Labour politician it was a pleasure to listen to? Kinnock? Benn? Even Brown could do it.
[1] Chatty rather than informative. It was an interview with Tom Harwood. It wasn't a bad interview but it was a bit human interest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l0Iagj72vQ
We've discussed Prime Ministerial voices in the , past. Personal taste and nothing to do with ability, but I would rank those I remember thus:
1. Brown 2. Truss 3. Johnson 4. Blair 5. Cameron 6. Major 7. May 8. Sunak 9. Starmer 10. Thatcher
Unsarcastically, at which end are the ones you liked and the ones you disliked?
GB News @GBNEWS 'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
Never believe anything until it is officially denied!
Asked whether she had been approached, she said: “I have a lot of friends in Reform. My husband was very recently a member of Reform.
“I also have, breaking news, friends in the Liberal Democrats. I also know people in the Labour Party. I’m not defecting to Labour or to the Lib Dems. Let me just tell you that I’m not defecting.”
Tom Nichols @RadioFreeTom · 44m Trump will never be held accountable, but somewhere in DC - at the CNO level - senior military officers accepted this order yet again and transmitted it down the chain of command instead of warning POTUS that extrajudicial execution on the high seas is not a legal order.
How? Do you have a plan or are you just practicing your typing?
I would like to see Starmer go, and soon. But we have, I think, four or five posters who are just spamming the site with all this Starmer conjecture, and dear me they are dreary.
This place is not the intellectual debating society it used to be.
What do you expect and there is only one person to blame and that is Starmer
I doubt you complained when Johnson came under this fire and the 'spamming' as you call it then
If it upsets you, then you are experiencing the same dismay and concern conservative supporters had at the time of the Johnson's crisis
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Are you planning to join, Nick?
Thinking about it, but I need to see the draft documents. We'll see what the next 2 weeks bring.
GB News @GBNEWS 'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
How? Do you have a plan or are you just practicing your typing?
I would like to see Starmer go, and soon. But we have, I think, four or five posters who are just spamming the site with all this Starmer conjecture, and dear me they are dreary.
This place is not the intellectual debating society it used to be.
What do you expect and there is only one person to blame and that is Starmer
I doubt you complained when Johnson came under this fire and the 'spamming' as you call it then
If it upsets you, then you are experiencing the same dismay and concern conservative supporters had at the time of the Johnson's crisis
Did you read my post? I have said Starmer's time has been and gone. I am not even a Labour supporter these days and haven't been for a decade.
Anyway the handful of posters frotting themselves over Starmer's demise are not really my cup of tea. When we do push back, the response to hated non-right wing posters on here like Roger and myself is pretty personal these days.
I know, I know, if snowflakes can't take it they should just p*** off.
Anyway during Johnson's moments of jeopardy you were fighting to the death on his behalf. "Boris was ambushed by a cake, whilst Starmer was living it large in the middle of a lockdown with beer and a curry".*
GB News @GBNEWS 'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
Miles Taylor @MilesTaylorUSA BREAKING: Trump says the US military killed 3 people in another deadly strike against "narcoterrorists" in international waters, per CNN
Tom Nichols @RadioFreeTom · 56m Hard to see how these are legal orders, but I guess we're past all that stuff now about "legal" and whatnot
GB News @GBNEWS 'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
How? Do you have a plan or are you just practicing your typing?
I would like to see Starmer go, and soon. But we have, I think, four or five posters who are just spamming the site with all this Starmer conjecture, and dear me they are dreary.
This place is not the intellectual debating society it used to be.
What do you expect and there is only one person to blame and that is Starmer
I doubt you complained when Johnson came under this fire and the 'spamming' as you call it then
If it upsets you, then you are experiencing the same dismay and concern conservative supporters had at the time of the Johnson's crisis
Did you read my post? I have said Starmer's time has been and gone. I am not even a Labour supporter these days and haven't been for a decade.
Anyway the handful of posters frotting themselves over Starmer's demise are not really my cup of tea. When we do push back, the response to hated non-right wing posters on here like Roger and myself is pretty personal these days.
I know, I know, if snowflakes can't take it they should just p*** off.
Anyway during Johnson's moments of jeopardy you were fighting to the death on his behalf. "Boris was ambushed by a cake, whilst Starmer was living it large in the middle of a lockdown with beer and a curry".*
* My precis.
Good night.
I did not fight for Johnson, indeed I wanted Sunak to urgently replace him, and Starmer got away with curry night but maybe that is the one time he was fortunate
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Are you planning to join, Nick?
Thinking about it, but I need to see the draft documents. We'll see what the next 2 weeks bring.
If you want to go left of Labour why not the LDs? You don't want to waste your time and your vote on the fruitcakes.
GB News @GBNEWS 'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Are you planning to join, Nick?
Thinking about it, but I need to see the draft documents. We'll see what the next 2 weeks bring.
If you want to go left of Labour why not the LDs? You don't want to waste your time and your vote on the fruitcakes.
Aren't the LibDems committed capitalists? Of a sort?
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
But Tommy Robinson is a far right racist, with convictions for violence and fraud.
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
Or, or they don't care about any of the speakers and they just want to march against mass immigration and erosion of our culture. One of my school friends went on the march, he's Jewish and said that he felt much, much safer on the supposed "far right" side of the march than when he walked through the other side of it to get there. Excuse me if I take the word of someone who actually went, is a currently persecuted minority and told us all that he was very welcome at the Unite the Kingdom march.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
I have been on marches where the SWP or Communists are present, but I wouldn't go on one organised by them, where they chose all the speakers.
It looks like you've chosen your side in the next Battle of Cable St. These are not nice people, they are violent thugs.
And this is your problem, I've chosen no sides. Well other than I'm 99% likely to be voting and campaigning for the Tories again. The side I'm on is whoever will bring down unskilled immigration, send the current unskilled immigrants and dependents home, stop the boats, cut spending to bring the deficit down and stop raising tax. I don't think there's any party which will do that but I expect the Tories to get close.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Are you planning to join, Nick?
Thinking about it, but I need to see the draft documents. We'll see what the next 2 weeks bring.
If you want to go left of Labour why not the LDs? You don't want to waste your time and your vote on the fruitcakes.
There's a lot of churn politically. Your Party is interesting (I am on their mailing list too), but I dont anticipate joining or supporting, despite my soft spot for Sultana.
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Are you planning to join, Nick?
Thinking about it, but I need to see the draft documents. We'll see what the next 2 weeks bring.
If you want to go left of Labour why not the LDs? You don't want to waste your time and your vote on the fruitcakes.
Aren't the LibDems committed capitalists? Of a sort?
Nick was an MP during the New Labour era. Not much Marxian theory practiced in those years.
So a boost for Burnham's candidate Powell then in the race to be Labour members pet, Lammy will be Deputy PM still regardless.
Terrible ratings from Starmer amongst his own members and not great for his candidate Philippson ether.
Fortunately for him he can only face a direct leadership challenge, not a VONC under Labour rules and his biggest threat, Burnham, is not an MP
A shame his Party should be turning against him for Rayner's flat and appointing Mandy. Had it been for his support for Netanyahu's genocide then we could all get behind a new leader
Starmer has opposed the genocide and backed a 2 state solution still so not sure that is fair
It seems now those baying most this weekend for some kind of flag waving revolution of the hard right up from the streets are now tweeting it is a disgrace that apparently kids today don't know that the Battle of Britain helped beat the erm... checks notes...Nazis.
So is your contention that all 300k who went on the march are Nazis? Do not you see how that kind of rhetoric fuels actual violence. Some idiot might get it in their head that shooting or stabbing these people is "good" because they're "Nazis anyway".
This is exactly the kind of stupidity that leads to people killing other people for no reason.
They went to a rally organised by a far right racist with multiple convictions for violence and fraud, the speakers were also far right racists, and many of the chants were racist.
So it may well be that not all of the 110 000 or so on the march are far right racists, but they are at the very least willing to be in the company of far right racists.
The grim consequence of calling everyone who says anything that is disagreed with a far right, racist fascist . . . It loses all meaning.
Including for those who actually are that.
Boy who cried wolf ends with an actual wolf.
It seems to be ending with radical leftists shooting people at the moment. Remember, words are violence and shooting Nazis is peaceful.
Melissa Hortman and her husband were shot by a Radical Rightist three months ago.
So a boost for Burnham's candidate Powell then in the race to be Labour members pet, Lammy will be Deputy PM still regardless.
Terrible ratings from Starmer amongst his own members and not great for his candidate Philippson ether.
Fortunately for him he can only face a direct leadership challenge, not a VONC under Labour rules and his biggest threat, Burnham, is not an MP
A shame his Party should be turning against him for Rayner's flat and appointing Mandy. Had it been for his support for Netanyahu's genocide then we could all get behind a new leader
Starmer has opposed the genocide and backed a 2 state solution still so not sure that is fair
UK gov says it's not a genocide, so I'm not sure that's true:
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start. October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name. November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity, Your Party
Are you planning to join, Nick?
Thinking about it, but I need to see the draft documents. We'll see what the next 2 weeks bring.
If you want to go left of Labour why not the LDs? You don't want to waste your time and your vote on the fruitcakes.
There's a lot of churn politically. Your Party is interesting (I am on their mailing list too), but I dont anticipate joining or supporting, despite my soft spot for Sultana.
Indeed, and it was one of my favourite songs from the period. However I was not aware of their other song "Sanity" so this was a good mix. Other Eighties mixes from the same person
This is the guy the left are calling a literal Nazi that deserved to die?!
You're right. The only people being murdered are right wingers who have never said/done anything bad, and the only people doing the murdering are left wingers who have never said/done anything good.
This is the guy the left are calling a literal Nazi that deserved to die?!
Here is the problem. "The left". A whole group. A lot of of those echo chambers don't do much human empathy, they're terrible, but for my part I didn't know him, didn't want him dead.
There is a lot of claim and counter claim and I'm not across all of it, but I'm happy to conclude a balance of probability from what I've seen that the shooter had leftist type motives, just as many others had right wing motives for similar actions.
But you are straining so hard to make everything like this all about the left as an entire whole, to echo Trump's administration in this. Why? The US is doing its mass deportations whilst stripping away legal oversight and encouraging a sense of impunity in ICE. An impunity that will lead to increasing numbers of innocent people being transported to countries without cause, all of which you support. People are being lost track of, it doesn't seem any kind of push at all to think the US authorities are indifferent if in the next decade there are thousands of mothers of the disappeared. Mass graves in some Central American jungle where the worst of it transpired don't seem far fetched.
So, let's put your wide attack on "the left" on top of this. Let's be clear that you are heading towards supporting putting left wingers in mass detention camps and some being disappeared simply for being left wing and angry about this very eventuality. You are this close to it.
We know people on here stretched and repeated the lies of actual bona fide fascists to try and make their points before they knew what was what during the Southport riots, so we know some can be taken along with this. Without remembering exactly what you did or didn't say, I tend to recall you being towards the dangerous end of this spectrum.
So, I can only conclude that you will support my disappearance, Foxy's disappearance, Nick's disappearance, at some future point under a MAGA aping juntaist Reform government. This isn't much of a stretch at all from today's US rhetoric and actions and how closely Reform follow that playbook. This is the reason that making it ALL about the left is so, so bad. This is reason that the nature of the politicking around the Southport riots - and, yes, it did take a little time for the facts to emerge - enraged me so much and still does. This isn't some little spat about Europe, the Brexit wars were bliss compared to this.
I'm sure you'll tell me you won't do this, that all this is dramatic. OK, tell me WHY you won't - what is it within your current trajectory exactly that will prevent that. Where is your off ramp? When Leon, who seems increasingly, indirectly or directly, in the influence of Russia, writes that it is time to jump, what will stop you?
Because, you may not pull the trigger, but everything you now say leads me to believe that, when the time comes, you will applaud the silencing of me and my ilk by whatever means is chosen. Why am I wrong?
“The first deportation of a Channel migrant under Sir Keir Starmer’s “one in, one out” deal with France was cancelled at the last minute.
The Telegraph understands that one migrant was due to be flown from Heathrow to Paris on an Air France passenger flight on Monday, but the flight was postponed amid protests by charities and threats of legal action.”
It’s beyond surreal. They can’t fly one migrant to Paris, Business Class
It was always going to be the way that there will be a load of legal challenges.
Comments
I don't get why you have this hard on for that when you know full well Hunt increased taxes rather than cut them, you're little better than HYUFD with this false obsession.
God help us if we end up with a Biden like scenario where his dithering leads to a defeat handing power over to someone actually malign.
The schools in the former 2 are in the top 100 for Oxbridge entry, we have a good C of E rural primary here and are in the catchment area for Chelmsford grammar if our child is bright enough
If you do not understand that, then words have no meaning.
Similarly the speakers included the well known far right racists Elon Musk, Ant Middleton etc.
I am not calling the entire march far right and racist, but at the very least they are gullible and open to listening to far right racists.
Uniting the Kingdom? My arse.
[1] Chatty rather than informative. It was an interview with Tom Harwood. It wasn't a bad interview but it was a bit human interest. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l0Iagj72vQ
https://x.com/JamesEsses/status/1967660832998748534
Duplicitious enough to be PM?
Today, we advance the process of founding our new party — one that belongs to its members, not to the establishment.
Britain’s political class is united. They pursue war and profit, while our lives get worse. For too long, the rich have set this country’s political agenda. Not any more.
Our party will take the power back.
Achieving this objective requires a mass democratic movement that meets people where they’re at, organises with them to build power in our communities and lays strong foundations to transform our country.
We can do this. But it’ll take all of us.
In the next two weeks, we will kick off the full founding process: opening our membership portal, initiating wide democratic debate and publishing draft versions of our four core founding documents — our Political Statement, Constitution, Rules, and Organisational Strategy. These documents will be drafts in the truest sense, ready to be edited and evolved. Members will be able to comment, suggest changes, and track how each document develops.
Alongside this online process, Your Party will host huge regional deliberative meetings where thousands of members come together to listen to each other, break bread and debate the founding documents face to face. From Norwich to Newcastle, we’ll foster a political culture of healthy discussion and disagreement, enabling thousands to weigh in with their ideas, questions and concerns.
In November, thousands of in-person founding conference delegates will be chosen by lottery to ensure a fair balance of gender, region, and background. These delegates will have a big responsibility – to debate the founding documents, propose amendments and vote on them at the conference. The final decision will be up to all members through an online, secure, one-member-one-vote system.
This process aims to combine the best of different democratic traditions: individual and collective views, in-person deliberation in assemblies, sortition to keep things fair and representative, and direct voting to give every member a final say.
And we want to go further. We know Your Party can - and must - be even bigger. Keep an eye on your inbox to get involved in The People Speak, a massive door knocking campaign to ask people what they want from a new party and inviting them to join in.
Timeline at a glance:
September: Membership opens, first draft documents published and regional assemblies start.
October: Assemblies continue, draft documents revised, online vote on party name.
November: Delegates selected, amendments submitted, founding conference takes place.
In Solidarity,
Your Party
The problem is the words are used so often against people who are not that to many people now they've lost their meaning. Which is a shame, as people like Robinson etc suit the meaning and are the actual wolves but many people just tune it all out now.
Finally, if you want to get more active in Your Party and help members take the lead then we need you to help run the regional assemblies. Sign up here to become a facilitator and help ensure we have fun, energising and inclusive conversations at these massive regional assemblies. We’ll be offering online training in advance.
Sign up to become a facilitator
Reject the drive to war. The rush to cut wages. The clamour to slash services. The attempts to divide us.
Fight for a different future: For your class and your community. This is your chance to be part of something new. Something different.
He was worried about telling us because he thought we would judge him poorly but if anything the reaction has been largely positive tonight in our group chat. A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one.
Snide remark aside, the snails pace will kill off any momentum they may have had. Polanskis nicked it
You seem to have a real bug up your arse about the NI change, yet if he had never touched ICT and NIC thresholds and rates then the deficit would be worse, not better.
Instinctively, it feels like grammars work better in small urban authorities like Trafford, where there are typically three or four schools within a couple of miles so travelling to not-your-nearest school isn't much of a barrier. We have five grammar schools (albeit two are single sex) for quarter of a million of us.
Never ebtirely straightforward to navigate, whatever tbe system, but I'm sure you will work out the best route for your family.
He doesn't really believe in anything (he's not even confidently wedded to pragmatism, which Blair and Thatcher both had, aside from their overarching orthodoxies). And that makes it hard to inspire loyalty.
Most other PMs had to build a base of loyal, fellow travellers within their party - look at Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron, Johnson - all good examples of this. Starmer instead inherited a party where the most ambitious figures were desperate to stop losing, and as a result I suspect that a lot of this iron-fisted party management style that people lauded him for was a bit of luck - in that the party was so weary of defeat people just accepted it. Compare this to New Labour, where the same desperation existed but the architects of that project realised they needed more.
This is now coming back to bite him, because now he is politically short of friends, who is there to help him? Who are his loyal lieutenants ready to ride to the rescue? Burnham clearly now sees himself as a rival. Rayner wasn't a "ride or die" ally, often on leadership manoeuvres herself. Streeting also has one eye on the top job. The closest he has is Reeves, who is also utterly discredited - and even for her, he couldn't back her in the Commons as she sobbed next to him. He also simply doesn't have the ace up his sleeve that other PMs had - the underpinning vision, the ideology, the team moving towards a common goal - that saved them and gave them allies through their darker hours.
The Starmer story is one of a man who was parachuted into the top of politics, who got very lucky but who ultimately lacks the skills that make a good political leader.
YP have been having rolling regional rallies
1000s?
Next week in Acton
1. Brown
2. Truss
3. Johnson
4. Blair
5. Cameron
6. Major
7. May
8. Sunak
9. Starmer
10. Thatcher
You can call them what you like, but if they walk like a duck and quack like a duck they are ducks.
You will recall my article on the history of gambling and my threatened article on trans (which keeps being pushed back, apols, and will probably have to be published in parts if I ever get round to writing it/them). One of my points in my history of gambling was that the poor get nothing or placebos, and I think this is an example. Specifically in the Independent article (which I assume Mr Esses is referring to) Wes makes the following points:
- People who want to transition spend many years on waiting lists
- This is bad for their mental health
- Wes is authorising £125,000 for counselling
This is a placebo. It does not fix the problem (the length of the list) but makes the queuer feel better about being in one.It looks like you've chosen your side in the next Battle of Cable St. These are not nice people, they are violent thugs.
Not every far right racist is a Nazi, just some of them.
The problem is and I know I've repeated this endlessly but everyone else is equally flawed because no one sane is going to go into politics - there are easier ways to make money and easier things to do good (for whatever definition of good you want to think about).
GB News
@GBNEWS
'Suella Braverman leads the list.'
Political bookmaker William Kedjanyi provides the odds in betting markets of who would be next to join Nigel Farage's Reform UK, with Andrew Rosindell, Mark Francois and Esther McVey all on the list.
https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1967660749183959362
In 2015 the Tories Promised to control migration
In 2017 the Tories Promised to control migration
In 2019 the Tories Promised to control migration
In 2024 the Tories Promised to control migration
And what did these promises lead to. an extra 11 million people added to this country. no houses built no infrastructure, no prison places and you want to put these people in again?
Bruh
This is what I actually said "A few of the others were glad that it was a peaceful march and are open to going to the next one."
Where in that sentence did you pick up that I would go to the next march? I'm happy that there was a big lack of the expected violence but I wouldn't go to any march where Robinson is speaking, he's a grade A ****.
I am glad you are not. Tommy Robinson is not Uniting the Kingdom, he is deliberately dividing it against itself.
This place is not the intellectual debating society it used to be.
Need I say more !
Miles Taylor
@MilesTaylorUSA
BREAKING: Trump says the US military killed 3 people in another deadly strike against "narcoterrorists" in international waters, per CNN
Tom Nichols
@RadioFreeTom
·
56m
Hard to see how these are legal orders, but I guess we're past all that stuff now about "legal" and whatnot
http://x.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1967698166708613509
@RadioFreeTom
·
44m
Trump will never be held accountable, but somewhere in DC - at the CNO level - senior military officers accepted this order yet again and transmitted it down the chain of command instead of warning POTUS that extrajudicial execution on the high seas is not a legal order.
https://x.com/RadioFreeTom/status/1967701752675004774
For voice alone!
“I also have, breaking news, friends in the Liberal Democrats. I also know people in the Labour Party. I’m not defecting to Labour or to the Lib Dems. Let me just tell you that I’m not defecting.”
https://www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/politics/suella-braverman-insists-she-has-no-plans-to-defect-to-reform-uk-5313915
Expecting the Trump administration to do things on the quiet seems to be too much to ask, though, regardless of legality.
I doubt you complained when Johnson came under this fire and the 'spamming' as you call it then
If it upsets you, then you are experiencing the same dismay and concern conservative supporters had at the time of the Johnson's crisis
Anyway the handful of posters frotting themselves over Starmer's demise are not really my cup of tea. When we do push back, the response to hated non-right wing posters on here like Roger and myself is pretty personal these days.
I know, I know, if snowflakes can't take it they should just p*** off.
Anyway during Johnson's moments of jeopardy you were fighting to the death on his behalf. "Boris was ambushed by a cake, whilst Starmer was living it large in the middle of a lockdown with beer and a curry".*
* My precis.
Good night.
And in heaven, everything is fine. So... this must be heaven? I'll make a modern politician yet.
Adam Kinzinger (Slava Ukraini) 🇺🇸🇺🇦
@AdamKinzinger
So many people on here seem to be hoping for a civil war.
Quick reminder: Walgreens won’t keep your insulin in stock if that happens.
https://x.com/AdamKinzinger/status/1967386931731575230
Conor McGregor pulls out of Ireland’s presidential race
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/15/conor-mcgregor-pulls-out-of-ireland-presidential-race
Thoughts and prayers for MAGA world tonight.
Killing Joke: Love Like Blood/Sanity (Matt One 2025 cover/mashup): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM2vPros1U4
This is the guy the left are calling a literal Nazi that deserved to die?!
I don't think anyone here has, so it might be better to take that argument up directly with whoever said it.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/sep/09/uk-not-concluded-israel-committing-genocide-in-gaza-lammy-says
Next week. String theory. What a doss.
There is a lot of claim and counter claim and I'm not across all of it, but I'm happy to conclude a balance of probability from what I've seen that the shooter had leftist type motives, just as many others had right wing motives for similar actions.
But you are straining so hard to make everything like this all about the left as an entire whole, to echo Trump's administration in this. Why? The US is doing its mass deportations whilst stripping away legal oversight and encouraging a sense of impunity in ICE. An impunity that will lead to increasing numbers of innocent people being transported to countries without cause, all of which you support. People are being lost track of, it doesn't seem any kind of push at all to think the US authorities are indifferent if in the next decade there are thousands of mothers of the disappeared. Mass graves in some Central American jungle where the worst of it transpired don't seem far fetched.
So, let's put your wide attack on "the left" on top of this. Let's be clear that you are heading towards supporting putting left wingers in mass detention camps and some being disappeared simply for being left wing and angry about this very eventuality. You are this close to it.
We know people on here stretched and repeated the lies of actual bona fide fascists to try and make their points before they knew what was what during the Southport riots, so we know some can be taken along with this. Without remembering exactly what you did or didn't say, I tend to recall you being towards the dangerous end of this spectrum.
So, I can only conclude that you will support my disappearance, Foxy's disappearance, Nick's disappearance, at some future point under a MAGA aping juntaist Reform government. This isn't much of a stretch at all from today's US rhetoric and actions and how closely Reform follow that playbook. This is the reason that making it ALL about the left is so, so bad. This is reason that the nature of the politicking around the Southport riots - and, yes, it did take a little time for the facts to emerge - enraged me so much and still does. This isn't some little spat about Europe, the Brexit wars were bliss compared to this.
I'm sure you'll tell me you won't do this, that all this is dramatic. OK, tell me WHY you won't - what is it within your current trajectory exactly that will prevent that. Where is your off ramp? When Leon, who seems increasingly, indirectly or directly, in the influence of Russia, writes that it is time to jump, what will stop you?
Because, you may not pull the trigger, but everything you now say leads me to believe that, when the time comes, you will applaud the silencing of me and my ilk by whatever means is chosen. Why am I wrong?
A lot of friendly fire going on and the Prince of Darkness I am sure isn't happy to have been discarded.