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Lucy Powell is now the favourite to win the deputy leader race – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,677
edited 6:55AM in General
Lucy Powell is now the favourite to win the deputy leader race – politicalbetting.com

I am not sure what has triggered this, perhaps there is a poll due to be released?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,114
    edited 6:59AM
    On topic

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/12/labour-deputy-contender-lucy-powell-calls-for-culture-change-at-no-10?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    https://news.sky.com/story/why-sacking-lucy-powell-might-come-back-to-haunt-starmer-13428131
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,949
    Go Lucy! It would be *fun*
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,761
    edited 7:11AM
    Good morning everyone.

    Another Lucy? My life is suffused with them - to the extent that last I sent two of the five or so Lucys I talk to each others' emails by mistake.

    I'm out all day, but here's a video worth a listen. A speech from Anna Wellisz, on "Regional Alliances to Counter Global Threats", about the USA National Conservative Vision of Foreign Policy in the future. 20 minutes.

    Anna Wellisz is the President of the Edmund Burke Foundation, which is the core institution of National Conservatism. For me, it's a fascinating study in perceptions and blind spots from the USA.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fo4-4clc8w
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,761
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    Another Lucy? My life is suffused with them - to the extent that last I sent two of the five or so Lucys I talk to each others' emails by mistake.

    I'm out all day, but here's a video worth a listen. A speech from Anna Wellisz, on "Regional Alliances to Counter Global Threats", about the USA National Conservative Vision of Foreign Policy in the future. 20 minutes.

    Anna Wellisz is the President of the Edmund Burke Foundation, which is the core institution of National Conservatism. For me, it's a fascinating study in perceptions and blind spots from the USA.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fo4-4clc8w

    Sorry - "last week I sent". My typo facility has a "miss it out" feature.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,761
    Might be a poll, or it might be perception that she's the Burnhamite candidate.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,267
    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,742
    Stuartinromford said:

    Might be a poll, or it might be perception that she's the Burnhamite candidate.

    The latter, I think, although confusingly it has also been suggested Powell might resign her seat so Burnham can win a by-election.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,764
    Hypothetically if someone had been trying move the betfair odds to change the narrative how much would they have had to spend?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,932
    edmundintokyo said:

    Hypothetically if someone had been trying move the betfair odds to change the narrative how much would they have had to spend?

    Just a few thousand - only 7500 matched on Powell, and that double counts (backer and layers stake)
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,129
    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    Pretty sure someone from the not very far left who’d called Trump a smelly poo pants or posted a photo of Vance with extra chubby cheeks on Twitter would have problems. Of course our security services might already have grassed them up to the US authorities.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,761
    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    I'm a little surprised that the Tommy Robinson animated March has not simply been prevented. He's a football hooligan inspired thug with about 10 prison sentences, and it's quite clear who is his constituency.

    And unless something has changed (I don't think it has) he's currently on bail under investigation for yet another suspected violent crime.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,148
    Theuniondivvie said:

    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    Pretty sure someone from the not very far left who’d called Trump a smelly poo pants or posted a photo of Vance with extra chubby cheeks on Twitter would have problems. Of course our security services might already have grassed them up to the US authorities.
    Stops you being hypocrites tho. You say flying is evil and ecocidal. So now you have no cause to fly, as if you do you’ll be locked up. Win win

    Buon giorno!
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,971
    My ignorance of all parties' rules is profound. Is the PM obliged to find a Cabinet level role for Deputy Leader, is DL a Cabinet role regardless, or might the DL not be in the Cabinet at all?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,206
    MattW said:

    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    I'm a little surprised that the Tommy Robinson animated March has not simply been prevented. He's a football hooligan inspired thug with about 10 prison sentences, and it's quite clear who is his constituency.

    And unless something has changed (I don't think it has) he's currently on bail under investigation for yet another suspected violent crime.
    Didn't they let him off the airport fracas? Two tier justice?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,050
    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,206
    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Might be a poll, or it might be perception that she's the Burnhamite candidate.

    The latter, I think, although confusingly it has also been suggested Powell might resign her seat so Burnham can win a by-election.
    Is Burnham high on his own supply, or are all these stories which seem to emanate from the Telegraph just mischievous wishful thinking, or both?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,971
    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    They've ducked out of all measures to make savings so far but that doesn't mean they'll be enthusiastic about committing to a course of action that requires spending vast amounts on top of everything else.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,706
    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,129
    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    Pretty sure someone from the not very far left who’d called Trump a smelly poo pants or posted a photo of Vance with extra chubby cheeks on Twitter would have problems. Of course our security services might already have grassed them up to the US authorities.
    Stops you being hypocrites tho. You say flying is evil and ecocidal. So now you have no cause to fly, as if you do you’ll be locked up. Win win

    Buon giorno!
    You found the maggot cheese then?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,148
    maxh said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
    I believe one of these - Starmer should Rejoin the EU - was the subject of a highly controversial Spectator article just this week
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,884
    F1: decided to back Leclerc each way in Azerbaijan at 8.5. Along with the (absent this year) Perez, he's a specialist at the circuit and the Ferrari was very competitive at Monaco. Every chance Leclerc could get pole, and the Ferrari looked pretty impressive in a straight line at Monza.

    Unusual for me to make an early bet, but there we are.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,148
    edited 7:43AM
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    Pretty sure someone from the not very far left who’d called Trump a smelly poo pants or posted a photo of Vance with extra chubby cheeks on Twitter would have problems. Of course our security services might already have grassed them up to the US authorities.
    Stops you being hypocrites tho. You say flying is evil and ecocidal. So now you have no cause to fly, as if you do you’ll be locked up. Win win

    Buon giorno!
    You found the maggot cheese then?
    Sadly no. It really is like contraband. All you hear are rumours

    However today I’m shifting to a wild place inland - Il Sardinia profundita - so maybe there…

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,722
    Leon said:

    maxh said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
    I believe one of these - Starmer should Rejoin the EU - was the subject of a highly controversial Spectator article just this week
    Low IQ Spectator journalists have been stealing ideas from PB.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/07/30/apologies-if-this-polling-triggers-brexiteers/
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,114
    edited 7:47AM
    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    Neither is going to happen and there is this

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/12/uk-rejoining-eu-european-union-membership-nick-thomas-symonds?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,857
    Lucy Powell - Labour's first female PM?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,148
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    Leon said:

    maxh said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
    I believe one of these - Starmer should Rejoin the EU - was the subject of a highly controversial Spectator article just this week
    Low IQ Spectator journalists have been stealing ideas from PB.

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2025/07/30/apologies-if-this-polling-triggers-brexiteers/
    Indeed. I think this particular low life stole the idea directly from ME. I’ve been saying on here for a year that Starmer should amaze everyone with a Rejoin referendum - transforming politics

    And then it was lifted basically verbatim and appears in that wretched rag

    I shall not repine. Today I drive into the sunny and magnificent mountains. Me ne frego!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,358
    MarqueeMark said:

    Lucy Powell - Labour's first female PM?

    Andy Burnham's puppet.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,089
    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    Pretty sure someone from the not very far left who’d called Trump a smelly poo pants or posted a photo of Vance with extra chubby cheeks on Twitter would have problems. Of course our security services might already have grassed them up to the US authorities.
    Stops you being hypocrites tho. You say flying is evil and ecocidal. So now you have no cause to fly, as if you do you’ll be locked up. Win win

    Buon giorno!
    You found the maggot cheese then?
    Sadly no. It really is like contraband. All you hear are rumours

    However today I’m shifting to a wild place inland - Il Sardinia profundita - so maybe there…

    I accidentally made maggot cheese during my brief, unsuccessful Covid cheesemaking period.

    One of the boxes I was ageing a “mountain style” roundel in had a gap that let in a couple of small flies. By the time I unwrapped it after a couple of months of affinage it was crawling, and very mature.

    I was briefly tempted to try it. Briefly
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,857
    SandyRentool said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Lucy Powell - Labour's first female PM?

    Andy Burnham's puppet.
    Unless and until she gets a taste for the top job...?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    edited 7:50AM
    Morning all.
    Might she not be favourite because Mandelsons Revenge comes out this weekend (perhaps) and SKS choice might sink with him?
    Or maybe its because Phillipson isnt a great candidate put up by team Tool?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,358
    A nice photo of Bridget on the front of The Times. Presumably there is a profile piece somewhere in the paper.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,461
    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    Pretty sure someone from the not very far left who’d called Trump a smelly poo pants or posted a photo of Vance with extra chubby cheeks on Twitter would have problems. Of course our security services might already have grassed them up to the US authorities.
    Stops you being hypocrites tho. You say flying is evil and ecocidal. So now you have no cause to fly, as if you do you’ll be locked up. Win win

    Buon giorno!
    You found the maggot cheese then?
    Sadly no. It really is like contraband. All you hear are rumours

    However today I’m shifting to a wild place inland - Il Sardinia profundita - so maybe there…

    Trying to get a biodynamic intestine without bothering with yoghurt?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myiasis#Accidental_myiasis
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    Neither is going to happen and there is this

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/12/uk-rejoining-eu-european-union-membership-nick-thomas-symonds?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Starmer goes and the policy goes.

    Starmers replacement will not be pro-Brexit or bound by Starmer's policies.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,761
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    Neither is going to happen and there is this

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/12/uk-rejoining-eu-european-union-membership-nick-thomas-symonds?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    You, an experienced man of the world, surely know the political principle.

    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

    (No Starmer won't move to rejoin. It's one of those things that needs a Political Generation to pass first. The irony is that those who want a fettled version of the status quo to stick should be wishing Starmer a long and happy premiership, so that this political generation lasts as long as possible.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,148
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    Pretty sure someone from the not very far left who’d called Trump a smelly poo pants or posted a photo of Vance with extra chubby cheeks on Twitter would have problems. Of course our security services might already have grassed them up to the US authorities.
    Stops you being hypocrites tho. You say flying is evil and ecocidal. So now you have no cause to fly, as if you do you’ll be locked up. Win win

    Buon giorno!
    You found the maggot cheese then?
    Sadly no. It really is like contraband. All you hear are rumours

    However today I’m shifting to a wild place inland - Il Sardinia profundita - so maybe there…

    I accidentally made maggot cheese during my brief, unsuccessful Covid cheesemaking period.

    One of the boxes I was ageing a “mountain style” roundel in had a gap that let in a couple of small flies. By the time I unwrapped it after a couple of months of affinage it was crawling, and very mature.

    I was briefly tempted to try it. Briefly
    Probably wise. The EU has banned casu marzu because it can be really dangerous

    With the maggots comes lots of bacteria and other pathogens. And sometimes the maggots themselves can survive your alimentary canal and start tunnelling through your stomach wall. Rare but it happens

    I’m told the way to avoid this is to splash the cheese with grappa or cannonau wine, drowning the little critters. Just before you eat it. Then drink more liquor afterwards to calm down. The taste is said to be very pleasant
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,050
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    Neither is going to happen and there is this

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/12/uk-rejoining-eu-european-union-membership-nick-thomas-symonds?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Yes I read that when you posted it yesterday. But when that was written Starmer's job wasn't at stake and Labour's fortunes didn't look too bad. I don't think they'll come out of his back pocket like a conjuring trick but he knows he's has them available when necessary. Gaza is going to be big at the Party Conference anyway so there's an opportunity to get some waverers back onside then
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,114
    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Might be a poll, or it might be perception that she's the Burnhamite candidate.

    The latter, I think, although confusingly it has also been suggested Powell might resign her seat so Burnham can win a by-election.
    Is Burnham high on his own supply, or are all these stories which seem to emanate from the Telegraph just mischievous wishful thinking, or both?
    Not just the Telegraph but in the media generally and on Sky this morning

    I do not want Farage anywhere near power, so an improvement in the conservative party’s prospects would be my choice but also a labour party not led by Starmer or Reeves but with someone who knows business and people would be a great help

    If Lucy Powell wins, and she is Burnham's choice, then there will be a move to install the Prince over the water

    I mentioned Burnham's moves to my wife and her response was simply 'I like Andy'

    As I said on the previous thread living in North Wales we receive a lot of North West media coverage and Burnham is on our screens more often than many will realise

    He is heavily involved in the multi billion pound development of Old Trafford and you only need to go to Manchester by train to be amazed at the activity

    You may want to shoot the messenger, or deflect over Farage housing arrangements, or your top topic about Johnson, but at present I am witnessing a government with a landslide win only 15 months ago sliding into Johnson levels of sleaze and unpopularity





  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    Interesting retraction by the Grauniad. It looks like they were being trolled about Tyler Robinson being a leftist.

    "Editor’s note: This article was updated on 12 September 2025 to remove summarized quotes after the verified source who attended high school with Tyler Robinson said after publication that they could not accurately remember details of their relationship."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/12/charlie-kirk-suspect-washington-utah?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    Foxy said:

    Interesting retraction by the Grauniad. It looks like they were being trolled about Tyler Robinson being a leftist.

    "Editor’s note: This article was updated on 12 September 2025 to remove summarized quotes after the verified source who attended high school with Tyler Robinson said after publication that they could not accurately remember details of their relationship."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/12/charlie-kirk-suspect-washington-utah?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    NO WAY !

    That's really, really surprising...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    Since we are talking Guardian

    @PippaCrerar

    Can Keir Starmer survive? Inside the plot to bring down the prime minister.

    “The conversation has moved on from ‘if’. Now it’s about ‘who’ and ‘how’.”

    https://t.co/C3PUYWCegl
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,114
    stodge said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
    I dont think a change of policy on the EU or Israel would do, and Starmers endless reshuffles in the back office are a joke.

    The problem is that Starmer has been tested and found wanting. The wooden, directionless waffling Starmer is the real thing.

    He needs to be replaced, the question is when, how and by whom. Rayner going has created a vacuum.
    He's only been "tested and found wanting" in the same way Sunak was.

    I think that's the main disappointment for those of us who haven't developed a vitriolic dislike for the Prime Minister - the thought he might have been able to move the country forward and tackle the huge issues but, like his immediate predecessors, it's not as though he's tried something and it hasn't worked but he's simply not tried.

    These issues are complex and multi-layered and evolving whether immigration, economic growth or our political and economic relationships with the world but I sense (and the Sky Immigration debate convinced me further) no one in any party has any coherent, practical and affordable (and legal) solutions so we muddle on and we end up with Continuity Sunak.

    The Truss Experience has clearly left its mark, not so much on the country or even the Conservative Party but on the willingness of the political class to be "bold" or "radical" or "courageous" (you can choose your own word). At a time when the right to offend and the right to be offended is being tested as never before, political leadership seems terrified of giving if not offence then of putting forward ideas and policies which might well benefit the greater good but which would undoubtedly alienate a section of society whether they be pensioners, other welfare recipients, high tax payers, property owners, car drivers, racists, non-racists etc. etc.

    The ability of social media to mobilise and vocalise discontent has had a huge impact on the political process.
    The Sky immigration debate was farcical and it shows how divisive it is when even Sir Trevor Phillips [ one of the best political cross examiners] looked bemused and struggled to control it
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,912
    On the topic: trigger might partly be Marr's piece in Newstatesman which cover a range of things going wrong for Starmer, but did include the deputy election and how hard it will be for the "Starmer candidate" to win in current party mood.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,114
    Scott_xP said:

    Since we are talking Guardian

    @PippaCrerar

    Can Keir Starmer survive? Inside the plot to bring down the prime minister.

    “The conversation has moved on from ‘if’. Now it’s about ‘who’ and ‘how’.”

    https://t.co/C3PUYWCegl

    Has anyone sent him since PMQs

    Hiding in his bunker or even fridge !!!!!!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,129
    edited 8:17AM
    Foxy said:

    Interesting retraction by the Grauniad. It looks like they were being trolled about Tyler Robinson being a leftist.

    "Editor’s note: This article was updated on 12 September 2025 to remove summarized quotes after the verified source who attended high school with Tyler Robinson said after publication that they could not accurately remember details of their relationship."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/12/charlie-kirk-suspect-washington-utah?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Obviously the Woke, Islamic, Trans cabal got to the verified source. Shameful.
    (coming to a MAGA social media account shortly)
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    Scott_xP said:

    Since we are talking Guardian

    @PippaCrerar

    Can Keir Starmer survive? Inside the plot to bring down the prime minister.

    “The conversation has moved on from ‘if’. Now it’s about ‘who’ and ‘how’.”

    https://t.co/C3PUYWCegl

    Another good read, on the culture of Epstein and Trump in Seventies and Eighties.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/sep/13/epstein-birthday-book-feminism-culture?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Since we are talking Guardian

    @PippaCrerar

    Can Keir Starmer survive? Inside the plot to bring down the prime minister.

    “The conversation has moved on from ‘if’. Now it’s about ‘who’ and ‘how’.”

    https://t.co/C3PUYWCegl

    Has anyone sent him since PMQs

    Hiding in his bunker or even fridge !!!!!!
    Hes war gaming Mandys revenge. He will know the ordure about to be released as its his own
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,761
    stodge said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
    I dont think a change of policy on the EU or Israel would do, and Starmers endless reshuffles in the back office are a joke.

    The problem is that Starmer has been tested and found wanting. The wooden, directionless waffling Starmer is the real thing.

    He needs to be replaced, the question is when, how and by whom. Rayner going has created a vacuum.
    He's only been "tested and found wanting" in the same way Sunak was.

    I think that's the main disappointment for those of us who haven't developed a vitriolic dislike for the Prime Minister - the thought he might have been able to move the country forward and tackle the huge issues but, like his immediate predecessors, it's not as though he's tried something and it hasn't worked but he's simply not tried.

    These issues are complex and multi-layered and evolving whether immigration, economic growth or our political and economic relationships with the world but I sense (and the Sky Immigration debate convinced me further) no one in any party has any coherent, practical and affordable (and legal) solutions so we muddle on and we end up with Continuity Sunak.

    The Truss Experience has clearly left its mark, not so much on the country or even the Conservative Party but on the willingness of the political class to be "bold" or "radical" or "courageous" (you can choose your own word). At a time when the right to offend and the right to be offended is being tested as never before, political leadership seems terrified of giving if not offence then of putting forward ideas and policies which might well benefit the greater good but which would undoubtedly alienate a section of society whether they be pensioners, other welfare recipients, high tax payers, property owners, car drivers, racists, non-racists etc. etc.

    The ability of social media to mobilise and vocalise discontent has had a huge impact on the political process.
    Yup. We don't really know what we want (beyond fantasies about pure upside with zero downside) but we know what we don't want (anything on offer). And social media means we don't want it more loudly than ever. If Burnham somehow becomes PM, I'm confident that he will become as unpopular as the others have as rapidly as the others did.

    Sacking the manager of a struggling football club rarely leads to a sustained improvement. The problems are usually much deeper than that.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,912
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Might be a poll, or it might be perception that she's the Burnhamite candidate.

    The latter, I think, although confusingly it has also been suggested Powell might resign her seat so Burnham can win a by-election.
    Is Burnham high on his own supply, or are all these stories which seem to emanate from the Telegraph just mischievous wishful thinking, or both?
    Not just the Telegraph but in the media generally and on Sky this morning

    I do not want Farage anywhere near power, so an improvement in the conservative party’s prospects would be my choice but also a labour party not led by Starmer or Reeves but with someone who knows business and people would be a great help

    If Lucy Powell wins, and she is Burnham's choice, then there will be a move to install the Prince over the water

    I mentioned Burnham's moves to my wife and her response was simply 'I like Andy'

    As I said on the previous thread living in North Wales we receive a lot of North West media coverage and Burnham is on our screens more often than many will realise

    He is heavily involved in the multi billion pound development of Old Trafford and you only need to go to Manchester by train to be amazed at the activity

    You may want to shoot the messenger, or deflect over Farage housing arrangements, or your top topic about Johnson, but at present I am witnessing a government with a landslide win only 15 months ago sliding into Johnson levels of sleaze and unpopularity





    The Telegraph "rumour" about a deal between Burnham and Powell is that she wins deputy and then at some suitable point gives him a by-election in exchange for a tilt at Manchester mayor.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,176
    Foxy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    Neither is going to happen and there is this

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/12/uk-rejoining-eu-european-union-membership-nick-thomas-symonds?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Starmer goes and the policy goes.

    Starmers replacement will not be pro-Brexit or bound by Starmer's policies.
    Would Reeves be in the firing line?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 21,050
    Mexicanpete said:

    DecrepiterJohnL said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    Might be a poll, or it might be perception that she's the Burnhamite candidate.

    The latter, I think, although confusingly it has also been suggested Powell might resign her seat so Burnham can win a by-election.
    Is Burnham high on his own supply, or are all these stories which seem to emanate from the Telegraph just mischievous wishful thinking, or both?
    There isn't a question that advances the Labour Party to which the answer is Powell pr Burnham. Both are lightweights. Lighter even than Starmer was when he took over.

    If they want to replace Starmer they'll need something completely different. I'm hoping the Conference throws up a name. Someone who has been held back or someone who has been hiding in the shadows. If such a person exists they could have three or four uninterupted years to establish a different sort of Party. One to the left but with principles
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,148
    Theuniondivvie said:

    Foxy said:

    Interesting retraction by the Grauniad. It looks like they were being trolled about Tyler Robinson being a leftist.

    "Editor’s note: This article was updated on 12 September 2025 to remove summarized quotes after the verified source who attended high school with Tyler Robinson said after publication that they could not accurately remember details of their relationship."

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/12/charlie-kirk-suspect-washington-utah?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

    Obviously the Woke, Islamic, Trans cabal got to the verified source. Shameful.
    (coming to a MAGA social media account shortly)
    Yes. Those evil MAGA fascists altering images and making up shit to get a narrative across

    Oh

    “An image of Tyler Robinson, the suspect in the killing of Charlie Kirk, wearing a pro-Trump shirt is being widely shared. But the image is digitally altered.

    In the real photo, posted on Facebook by one of Robinson's family members, there's no logo or writing on his shirt.”

    https://x.com/shayan86/status/1966655413996171680?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,176
    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    stodge said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
    I dont think a change of policy on the EU or Israel would do, and Starmers endless reshuffles in the back office are a joke.

    The problem is that Starmer has been tested and found wanting. The wooden, directionless waffling Starmer is the real thing.

    He needs to be replaced, the question is when, how and by whom. Rayner going has created a vacuum.
    He's only been "tested and found wanting" in the same way Sunak was.

    I think that's the main disappointment for those of us who haven't developed a vitriolic dislike for the Prime Minister - the thought he might have been able to move the country forward and tackle the huge issues but, like his immediate predecessors, it's not as though he's tried something and it hasn't worked but he's simply not tried.

    These issues are complex and multi-layered and evolving whether immigration, economic growth or our political and economic relationships with the world but I sense (and the Sky Immigration debate convinced me further) no one in any party has any coherent, practical and affordable (and legal) solutions so we muddle on and we end up with Continuity Sunak.

    The Truss Experience has clearly left its mark, not so much on the country or even the Conservative Party but on the willingness of the political class to be "bold" or "radical" or "courageous" (you can choose your own word). At a time when the right to offend and the right to be offended is being tested as never before, political leadership seems terrified of giving if not offence then of putting forward ideas and policies which might well benefit the greater good but which would undoubtedly alienate a section of society whether they be pensioners, other welfare recipients, high tax payers, property owners, car drivers, racists, non-racists etc. etc.

    The ability of social media to mobilise and vocalise discontent has had a huge impact on the political process.
    Someone here remarked the other day that the downfall of a PM is down to the same thing that had been considered their strength.

    That is true of Starmer. After the turmoil of the Brexit fiasco, covid, partygate, the brief Truss farce, Starmer looked the part of the dull technocrat, but it's that dull technocrat style that has brought him to the point of defenestration just a year after a landslide.

    We always over react when replacing leaders, so expect another vacuous showman.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,212
    On the train to London. Someone said to me yesterday that they reckon this demo in London will get a million people. I’m sure that’s bollocks, but there’s a fair few demonstrators on the train, and they’re not football types.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    squareroot2 said:

    Foxy said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    Neither is going to happen and there is this

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/12/uk-rejoining-eu-european-union-membership-nick-thomas-symonds?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
    Starmer goes and the policy goes.

    Starmers replacement will not be pro-Brexit or bound by Starmer's policies.
    Would Reeves be in the firing line?
    I would expect so.

    A new broom sweeps clean.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    edited 8:29AM
    Burnham isnt going to get a by election whilst SKS is leader. Labour will impose a candidate rather than invite open warfare into parliament. If SKS is gone, then someone else is already king before Burnham gets in.
    Burnham only gets the gig if Starmer survives for the next couple of years and a slot comes up 'naturally' after Burnhams mayoral term imo
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,912
    Senior Labour party figures revealed that an existing Manchester MP who is in ill health is ready to stand down [for Burngham], causing a byelection – the party leadership is likely to do everything it can to block it.

    Guardian
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,912
    wooliedyed said:

    Burnham isnt going to get a by election whilst SKS is leader. Labour will impose a candidate rather than invite open warfare into parliament. If SKS is gone, then someone else is already king before Burnham gets in.
    Burnham only gets the gig if Starmer survives for the next couple of years and a slot comes up 'naturally' after Burnhams term imo

    It's the NEC that decides on a by-election situation iirc.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    squareroot2 said:

    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.

    Get double and I'll owe you?
  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 6,630
    I wonder whether Mandy has an arsonist's arse on a list to bring down the Arsenalist
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,283
    Stuartinromford said:

    stodge said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
    I dont think a change of policy on the EU or Israel would do, and Starmers endless reshuffles in the back office are a joke.

    The problem is that Starmer has been tested and found wanting. The wooden, directionless waffling Starmer is the real thing.

    He needs to be replaced, the question is when, how and by whom. Rayner going has created a vacuum.
    He's only been "tested and found wanting" in the same way Sunak was.

    I think that's the main disappointment for those of us who haven't developed a vitriolic dislike for the Prime Minister - the thought he might have been able to move the country forward and tackle the huge issues but, like his immediate predecessors, it's not as though he's tried something and it hasn't worked but he's simply not tried.

    These issues are complex and multi-layered and evolving whether immigration, economic growth or our political and economic relationships with the world but I sense (and the Sky Immigration debate convinced me further) no one in any party has any coherent, practical and affordable (and legal) solutions so we muddle on and we end up with Continuity Sunak.

    The Truss Experience has clearly left its mark, not so much on the country or even the Conservative Party but on the willingness of the political class to be "bold" or "radical" or "courageous" (you can choose your own word). At a time when the right to offend and the right to be offended is being tested as never before, political leadership seems terrified of giving if not offence then of putting forward ideas and policies which might well benefit the greater good but which would undoubtedly alienate a section of society whether they be pensioners, other welfare recipients, high tax payers, property owners, car drivers, racists, non-racists etc. etc.

    The ability of social media to mobilise and vocalise discontent has had a huge impact on the political process.
    Yup. We don't really know what we want (beyond fantasies about pure upside with zero downside) but we know what we don't want (anything on offer). And social media means we don't want it more loudly than ever. If Burnham somehow becomes PM, I'm confident that he will become as unpopular as the others have as rapidly as the others did.

    Sacking the manager of a struggling football club rarely leads to a sustained improvement. The problems are usually much deeper than that.
    Interesting analogy - the fans of a club want their team to win every match but no team does that. Both England's football and cricket teams regularly go from being the greatest that has ever stepped on a pitch to being the worst in the history of the sport over a period of a few days (and then back again).

    Farage will discover all this if and when he becomes Prime Minister (as would Badenoch or Davey in that more unlikely event). To be fair, even some of the apparently staunch supporters of Reform on here have conceded the party in Government would become very unpopular very quickly.

    There is a truth radical Governments trying to do radical things get very unpopular - Asquith, Attlee and Thatcher all discovered that - but it's worse when you have a Government apparently doing nothing. A radical Government will in time see the benefits of its legislation and can show these to the public (whether the public like them or not is another question).

    If you do nothing, you have nothing to show for it - arguably, that's where Starmer's administration is going to end up.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,358
    BTW, I wouldn't take CLP nominations to be a representative reflection of members' preferences for deputy leader. Only a small fraction of members will attend the nomination meetings, and these folk are, to put it kindly, not necessarily in tune with the more passive membership.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    rottenborough said:

    wooliedyed said:

    Burnham isnt going to get a by election whilst SKS is leader. Labour will impose a candidate rather than invite open warfare into parliament. If SKS is gone, then someone else is already king before Burnham gets in.
    Burnham only gets the gig if Starmer survives for the next couple of years and a slot comes up 'naturally' after Burnhams term imo

    It's the NEC that decides on a by-election situation iirc.
    Yes and they wont invite open warfare into parliament by selecting Burnham. By 'Labour' i mean the party hierarchy. They don't seem to be frothing at the mouth Burnhamites nor keen to ignite a civil war
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,176
    wooliedyed said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.

    Get double and I'll owe you?
    wooliedyed said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.

    Get double and I'll owe you?
    wooliedyed said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.

    Get double and I'll owe you?
    wooliedyed said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.

    Get double and I'll owe you?
    I've gone big....


    https://adexa.co.uk/Commercial-Tabletop-Popcorn-Maker-Adexa-HP6B?language=en&currency=GBP&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22944074762&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrJTGBhCbARIsANFBfgtkSsT8rbxslGMfuBGaHFBXjito6Otrbt1kZ_Jj2dsTtSJCEXcGaPgaAjpwEALw_wcB

  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,148
    edited 8:33AM
    tlg86 said:

    On the train to London. Someone said to me yesterday that they reckon this demo in London will get a million people. I’m sure that’s bollocks, but there’s a fair few demonstrators on the train, and they’re not football types.

    Hope Not Hate is predicting 40,000

    So that’s quite a difference

    I’m going to take a stab at insanely unfounded predictions from the verandah of my hotel room in BARBAGIA

    60,000

    So, bigger than some predict, and probably quite impressive. But a million?! lol no
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    squareroot2 said:

    wooliedyed said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.

    Get double and I'll owe you?
    wooliedyed said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.

    Get double and I'll owe you?
    wooliedyed said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.

    Get double and I'll owe you?
    wooliedyed said:

    squareroot2 said:

    Given what is likely to happen over the next few weeks.. I need some popcorn.

    Get double and I'll owe you?
    I've gone big....


    https://adexa.co.uk/Commercial-Tabletop-Popcorn-Maker-Adexa-HP6B?language=en&currency=GBP&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22944074762&gclid=Cj0KCQjwrJTGBhCbARIsANFBfgtkSsT8rbxslGMfuBGaHFBXjito6Otrbt1kZ_Jj2dsTtSJCEXcGaPgaAjpwEALw_wcB

    Go into business, there's a lot of PBers who love a good 🍿
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,358
    If Starmer doesn't want to be replaced by Burnham, then resigning before Burnham gets back in parliament would do the trick.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    On the train to London. Someone said to me yesterday that they reckon this demo in London will get a million people. I’m sure that’s bollocks, but there’s a fair few demonstrators on the train, and they’re not football types.

    Hope Not Hate is predicting 40,000

    So that’s quite a difference

    I’m going to take a stab at insanely unfounded predictions from the verandah of my hotel room in BARBAGIA

    60,000

    So, bigger than some predict, and probably quite impressive. But a million?! lol no
    Somewhere between the Laurence Fox for an Oscar and the Countryside Alliance 02 marches
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    If Mandy goes in two footed it will probably be stuff about someone senior that SKS knows about and proof SKS knows.

    He only acts when hes caught out.....

    I mean he knew about the emails when he backed him Weds, there was no 'new info' coming to light after'
  • LeonLeon Posts: 65,148
    stodge said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    stodge said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
    I dont think a change of policy on the EU or Israel would do, and Starmers endless reshuffles in the back office are a joke.

    The problem is that Starmer has been tested and found wanting. The wooden, directionless waffling Starmer is the real thing.

    He needs to be replaced, the question is when, how and by whom. Rayner going has created a vacuum.
    He's only been "tested and found wanting" in the same way Sunak was.

    I think that's the main disappointment for those of us who haven't developed a vitriolic dislike for the Prime Minister - the thought he might have been able to move the country forward and tackle the huge issues but, like his immediate predecessors, it's not as though he's tried something and it hasn't worked but he's simply not tried.

    These issues are complex and multi-layered and evolving whether immigration, economic growth or our political and economic relationships with the world but I sense (and the Sky Immigration debate convinced me further) no one in any party has any coherent, practical and affordable (and legal) solutions so we muddle on and we end up with Continuity Sunak.

    The Truss Experience has clearly left its mark, not so much on the country or even the Conservative Party but on the willingness of the political class to be "bold" or "radical" or "courageous" (you can choose your own word). At a time when the right to offend and the right to be offended is being tested as never before, political leadership seems terrified of giving if not offence then of putting forward ideas and policies which might well benefit the greater good but which would undoubtedly alienate a section of society whether they be pensioners, other welfare recipients, high tax payers, property owners, car drivers, racists, non-racists etc. etc.

    The ability of social media to mobilise and vocalise discontent has had a huge impact on the political process.
    Yup. We don't really know what we want (beyond fantasies about pure upside with zero downside) but we know what we don't want (anything on offer). And social media means we don't want it more loudly than ever. If Burnham somehow becomes PM, I'm confident that he will become as unpopular as the others have as rapidly as the others did.

    Sacking the manager of a struggling football club rarely leads to a sustained improvement. The problems are usually much deeper than that.
    Interesting analogy - the fans of a club want their team to win every match but no team does that. Both England's football and cricket teams regularly go from being the greatest that has ever stepped on a pitch to being the worst in the history of the sport over a period of a few days (and then back again).

    Farage will discover all this if and when he becomes Prime Minister (as would Badenoch or Davey in that more unlikely event). To be fair, even some of the apparently staunch supporters of Reform on here have conceded the party in Government would become very unpopular very quickly.

    There is a truth radical Governments trying to do radical things get very unpopular - Asquith, Attlee and Thatcher all discovered that - but it's worse when you have a Government apparently doing nothing. A radical Government will in time see the benefits of its legislation and can show these to the public (whether the public like them or not is another question).

    If you do nothing, you have nothing to show for it - arguably, that's where Starmer's administration is going to end up.

    I now believe Starmer never actually wanted to do much, anyway. He’s not an especially political man. He’s not driven by “politics”

    He’s a public sector lawyer

    He wanted to come in and enjoy the perks of being PM and do some high profile left wing or progressive things (Chagos, assisted dying) then reap the applause and that’s it. He certainly didn’t want to massively change the country because the country, as it is, really works for people like him. Highly paid public sector wonks
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    SandyRentool said:

    If Starmer doesn't want to be replaced by Burnham, then resigning before Burnham gets back in parliament would do the trick.

    Indeed.
    I actually don't see the situation where Labours NEC allows Burnham into parly with SKS as PM.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,483
    Lucy Powell, the poster girl for failing upwards.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    tlg86 said:

    On the train to London. Someone said to me yesterday that they reckon this demo in London will get a million people. I’m sure that’s bollocks, but there’s a fair few demonstrators on the train, and they’re not football types.

    Which one?

    Tommeh, or the other one?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,267
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Lucy Powell, the poster girl for failing upwards.

    Didn’t she run Ed Milibands GE campaign ! Says it all .

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 53,136
    SandyRentool said:

    If Starmer doesn't want to be replaced by Burnham, then resigning before Burnham gets back in parliament would do the trick.

    I dont think Starmer would be bothered by Burnham replacing him, if he steps down.

    Burnham was pretty solidly New Labour, and still is.

    I dont see it happening though.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 40,175
    @mattzarb

    To be fair to Starmer he has united the country. Everyone thinks he’s a complete doofus, even his own MPs
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,483
    edited 8:52AM
    Scott_xP said:

    @mattzarb

    To be fair to Starmer he has united the country. Everyone thinks he’s a complete doofus, even his own MPs

    "They think this government won't exist soon".

    Ailbhe Rea, Associate Editor at Bloomberg UK, says it's taken "basically all week" to fill junior roles in the government due to an "end of days" feeling in the Labour Party.

    https://x.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1966621315667726473?s=19

    You have to keep reminding yourself they have a mega majority.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,870
    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Roger said:

    There are two giant USPs up for grabs and only Starmer can realistically grab both. One is Rejoin the second is showing decisive action in putting a stop to Israel. Both would be massively popular.

    The Party Conference would be the time. it would require a massive reset but it's there for the taking

    And neither would address the fundamental challenges this country faces (although I would support both).

    However, where I agree with you is that it might give Starmer the boost in popularity he needs to be able to deliver some of the difficult medicine @Stuartinromford prescribed at the end of the last thread.

    I increasingly think Starmer doesn't have the competence to deliver real solutions unfortunately.
    I dont think a change of policy on the EU or Israel would do, and Starmers endless reshuffles in the back office are a joke.

    The problem is that Starmer has been tested and found wanting. The wooden, directionless waffling Starmer is the real thing.

    He needs to be replaced, the question is when, how and by whom. Rayner going has created a vacuum.
    Starmer isn’t directionless.

    He goes in the direction (and believes) exactly what his managers tell him to.

    Since he has been appointed to a job where he has no managers, this has presented a problem.

    He has managed to outsource his moral conscience to the Supreme Court.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,842
    rottenborough said:

    Senior Labour party figures revealed that an existing Manchester MP who is in ill health is ready to stand down [for Burngham], causing a byelection – the party leadership is likely to do everything it can to block it.

    Guardian

    I’m not sure you can in practice? Wouldn’t blocking the Mayor of Manchester from running for a Manchester seat just invite that open warfare.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,176
    Does Starmer have a moral conscience?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,483
    As Jimmy Carr put it, Starmer, there is an Asda in the Midlands missing a store manager.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,238
    Scott_xP said:

    @mattzarb

    To be fair to Starmer he has united the country. Everyone thinks he’s a complete doofus, even his own MPs

    Great word that; never heard it before but feel I know exactly what it means

  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,208
    Stuartinromford said:

    Might be a poll, or it might be perception that she's the Burnhamite candidate.

    Or because she is less well known than Phillipson, people are just projecting ..
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 14,048
    edited 8:59AM
    StillWaters said:

    rottenborough said:

    Senior Labour party figures revealed that an existing Manchester MP who is in ill health is ready to stand down [for Burngham], causing a byelection – the party leadership is likely to do everything it can to block it.

    Guardian

    I’m not sure you can in practice? Wouldn’t blocking the Mayor of Manchester from running for a Manchester seat just invite that open warfare.
    They put him back in his box.
    'The people of Gtr Manchester elected you to do a job which the Labour Party put you forward for. Get on with it'
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,912
    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    51m
    The primary focus has obviously been on the Mandelson saga this week. But people are overlooking the significance of Lucy Powell securing over 100 nominations for Deputy Leader when No.10 mounted a major operation to prevent a contest. Labour MPs see it as a watershed moment.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1966775524945977827
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 67,114
    rottenborough said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    51m
    The primary focus has obviously been on the Mandelson saga this week. But people are overlooking the significance of Lucy Powell securing over 100 nominations for Deputy Leader when No.10 mounted a major operation to prevent a contest. Labour MPs see it as a watershed moment.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1966775524945977827

    This is Boris levels of danger for Starmer and all self inflicted
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,267
    Starmer seems to be McSweeneys puppet .

    You’d think the PM might have worked out by now that his advice is garbage .
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,483
    edited 9:04AM
    Good job there isn't a horror budget ahead. Stuck between a rock and a hard place, where own side won't accept cuts, the public won't accept tax rises and the markets won't accept a can kicking no action approach.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,870
    wooliedyed said:

    StillWaters said:

    rottenborough said:

    Senior Labour party figures revealed that an existing Manchester MP who is in ill health is ready to stand down [for Burngham], causing a byelection – the party leadership is likely to do everything it can to block it.

    Guardian

    I’m not sure you can in practice? Wouldn’t blocking the Mayor of Manchester from running for a Manchester seat just invite that open warfare.
    They put him back in his box.
    'The people of Gtr Manchester elected you to do a job which the Labour Party put you forward for. Get on with it'
    Blocking a popular, middle of the road politician like Burnham would look ridiculous. And make Starmer look even weaker.

    The entire setup of the Labour Party constitution is to make ditching the Labour leader by a faction or cabal, in the style of the Fourth Protocol, impossible.

    Then again, Starmer might just be able to accumulate enough blunders to manage it.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,914
    rottenborough said:

    (((Dan Hodges)))
    @DPJHodges
    ·
    51m
    The primary focus has obviously been on the Mandelson saga this week. But people are overlooking the significance of Lucy Powell securing over 100 nominations for Deputy Leader when No.10 mounted a major operation to prevent a contest. Labour MPs see it as a watershed moment.

    https://x.com/DPJHodges/status/1966775524945977827

    The sad thing is that she gets this scale of nominations despite a track record that is at best mediocre.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,857
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    As Jimmy Carr put it, Starmer, there is an Asda in the Midlands missing a store manager.

    Or Whitbury New Town Leisure Centre is missing its emperor...

    We tried to tell you he was Gordon Brittas. But so much faith had been put in him as Not Corbyn that no criticism could be tolerated. We Tories know a duff 'un when we elect them. You should have listened.

    Heh.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,176
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Good job there isn't a horror budget ahead. Stuck between a rock and a hard place, where own side won't accept cuts, the public won't accept tax rises and the markets won't accept a can kicking no action approach.

    cf...France....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,870
    edited 9:12AM
    squareroot2 said:

    Does Starmer have a moral conscience?

    That has been formally out sourced to whatever the Supreme Court says.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,761
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Good job there isn't a horror budget ahead. Stuck between a rock and a hard place, where own side won't accept cuts, the public won't accept tax rises and the markets won't accept a can kicking no action approach.

    In which case, stand by for tax rises.

    The markets can vote against a government in minutes.

    The backbenchers can vote against a PM in days.

    The public can't vote against a government until 2029. And if one of our deep-seated problems is short-termism, that's how it should be.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,208
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    Leon said:

    Theuniondivvie said:

    nico67 said:

    Strange how Steve Bannon is allowed to enter the UK to attend the hate rally in London .

    Don’t criminal convictions bar you from coming to the UK ?

    Of course we know the answer , this spineless government is too afraid to upset Trump .

    If the situation had been reversed and someone from the far left with a conviction wanted to visit the US they’d have no chance .

    Pretty sure someone from the not very far left who’d called Trump a smelly poo pants or posted a photo of Vance with extra chubby cheeks on Twitter would have problems. Of course our security services might already have grassed them up to the US authorities.
    Stops you being hypocrites tho. You say flying is evil and ecocidal. So now you have no cause to fly, as if you do you’ll be locked up. Win win

    Buon giorno!
    You found the maggot cheese then?
    Sadly no. It really is like contraband. All you hear are rumours

    However today I’m shifting to a wild place inland - Il Sardinia profundita - so maybe there…

    I accidentally made maggot cheese during my brief, unsuccessful Covid cheesemaking period.

    One of the boxes I was ageing a “mountain style” roundel in had a gap that let in a couple of small flies. By the time I unwrapped it after a couple of months of affinage it was crawling, and very mature.

    I was briefly tempted to try it. Briefly
    Probably wise. The EU has banned casu marzu because it can be really dangerous

    With the maggots comes lots of bacteria and other pathogens. And sometimes the maggots themselves can survive your alimentary canal and start tunnelling through your stomach wall. Rare but it happens

    I’m told the way to avoid this is to splash the cheese with grappa or cannonau wine, drowning the little critters. Just before you eat it. Then drink more liquor afterwards to calm down. The taste is said to be very pleasant
    I would just drink the booze, without the maggots, thank you.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,842
    wooliedyed said:

    StillWaters said:

    rottenborough said:

    Senior Labour party figures revealed that an existing Manchester MP who is in ill health is ready to stand down [for Burngham], causing a byelection – the party leadership is likely to do everything it can to block it.

    Guardian

    I’m not sure you can in practice? Wouldn’t blocking the Mayor of Manchester from running for a Manchester seat just invite that open warfare.
    They put him back in his box.
    'The people of Gtr Manchester elected you to do a job which the Labour Party put you forward for. Get on with it'
    It’s the internal politics that’s the issue not the public messaging - it could seriously undermine Starmer and create a king over the water
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,912
    Steve Bannon is apparently going to speak at today's far right mob event.

    Guardian says Hope not Hate expecting 40,000 to turn out.
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