politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Remember Cameron’s early vote-Blue-go-green mantra?
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It's not Brown's signature on 'the Vow'.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Jonathan, the Vow has created a constitutional crisis rather than rescuing us from one and the euro was more about Brown not wanting to give up control rather than anything else (although he was on the right side of the argument). Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
A big, nasty Labour boy made me do it and ran away isn't the strongest defence (somewhat reminiscent of Tory blame-apportioning on Iraq).
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Mr. Divvie, indeed, the three parties/party leaders were damned fools to go along with it, but Brown was the instigator. He banged on about throwing powers at Scotland even if No won, effectively shifting the debate from Yes versus No to Independence versus Devomax.
It's also traditional in this country hold governments to account for their actions. Was Labour given equal blame for the ERM debacle?0 -
go Green open the camps, and fill them with deniers.
On a lighter note, a fearless reporter goes to a dogging site with a Tory Councillor, in the interests of research.
http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Special-report-happened-sent-reporter-dogging/story-25946933-detail/story.html …0 -
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.0 -
What about writing about what this may mean for the EC and UK for a thread article (eh TSE/OGH)?AndreaParma_82 said:Italian presidency election...
Mattarella is over 400 votes now....it looks he will be elected in a few minutes...
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Yes, in 2010 the Conservatives for a change had a personally popular leader who saw that the world had moved on. The same man remains more popular than any other leader. Yet the nut nuts think that he's the one that is getting things wrong.antifrank said:
It is always a bit saddening when someone seemingly clever uses smoke screens to try and win a pointisam said:
The Conservatives obsessed about the EU in 1997, 2001 and 2005. They did so less in 2010. Spot a possible pattern?
There are several other things different in 2010 to the other years you mention that are more influential than tory "obsession" over the EU, and worst thing is, you know it but wanted to score a point
yesMinister!
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Labour had a change of leader too
Ah the insults... not edifying
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Don't put yourself down.. I accepted the half hearted politicians apology, don't worry xsaddened said:
Pitiful from start to end. It boils down to "I could but shan't so there!" Might work in a playground but not anywhere else.isam said:
It would be untrue to admit I can't and I never liesaddened said:
1, it would be easier to admit you can't.isam said:
ologise for repeatedly accusing me of deleting/editing a post that I hadnt btw? You said your phone was playing up and you'd do it later that day... I'm sure someone who thinks they are onto something like you would be sure to want to be seen admitting a mistake?saddened said:
Outline any then, you already have several in mind you say, so it should be easy.isam said:
Who knows which is most likely to succeed? The market will decidesaddened said:
Good outline the most likely for us.isam said:
I can imagine several paths to that outcomesaddened said:isam said:
Whenever it is we leave he will say he was a Eurosceptic all along... A chancer with no conviction, amazed lemmings follow him over the topsaddened said:
Talk us through how 5 years from now the UK is no longer in the EU.isam said:Holidays in apartheid SA / Sorrow for mandela
Vote for clause 28 / gay marriage
Vote blue go green / green crap
In 2020 once we've left the Eu and he's the ex pm trying to sell a book no doubt he will be a Eurosceptic
x
But when we leave, cameron will convert to euro scepticism...
2, as for following Dave, I'm happy to criticize him when appropriate as I did with the leader debates
3,as for apologies, yes I did, I lost track of who said what in the multiple referencing
If you want to be taken remotely seriously have at least an inkling of the argument you are making.
I won't ask you how uk will leave the EU again, because it's obvious you haven't got the vaguest idea.
I have more than an inkling I have several ways that we could leave the EU... I hope you don't think you have won the argument with your loud flourishes...to be honest I just don't like being told what to do and stubbornness is making me not answer because you keep asking!
But have no doubt I know what I'm talking about
Hmmm the apology was an "if I have made a mistake" one... Always feels a bit half hearted. Though I think I said ok anyway, as it was obvious to everyone youd dropped a bollock0 -
Hurrah, the Saturday Herders slot and another good one. Almost certainly we are going to get thoroughly blue blooded Tory economics for this election campaign and none of the hug-a-Milibland crap. The Green's leader is eloquent and bonkers. They would have us living in a world a bit like the fictional Revolution set in post electricity USA. However for every vote she and her devoted followers take from the Bland bunch, we see the prospect of people like NPXMP being re-elected becoming more remote and Labour, not Tory marginal seats falling blue in May.0
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I didn't say Farage was or wasn't anything.Flightpath said:
Of course you are childish. You try to say Cameron is a chancer but Farage is not. But refuse to justify it. You make a claim about leaving the EU but refuse to back it up.isam said:
I can imagine several paths to that outcomesaddened said:
So we won't be leaving by 2020, you cannot imagine a viable path to that outcome? Just a childish dislike of Cameron who is a chancer, unlike the straight as a die Nigel Farage, who under no circumstances changed his view on an issue because it suits his purpose, like all other politicians.isam said:
Whenever it is we leave he will say he was a Eurosceptic all along... A chancer with no conviction, amazed lemmings follow him over the topsaddened said:
Talk us through how 5 years from now the UK is no longer in the EU.isam said:Holidays in apartheid SA / Sorrow for mandela
Vote for clause 28 / gay marriage
Vote blue go green / green crap
In 2020 once we've left the Eu and he's the ex pm trying to sell a book no doubt he will be a Eurosceptic
I don't have a childish dislike of cameron or any real dislike of him at all
My dads bigger than your dad x
I can tell you why and how Farage is a chancer - he finds no interest in his anti EU stance so is happy to swing UKIP behind a blatantly scaremongering racist anti immigration policy and defend his blatantly racist ting tong rough diamond members. He is a desperate hypocritical lying chancer since when he is threatened with losing his nice gravy train he joins up with a Polish neo nazi holocaust denier.
We might just leave the EU if we elect a Tory govt which will give us a referendum. Under no other circumstances will we leave before 2020.
Childish is as childish does.
I have said dozens of times on here what I think the best chance we have of leaving the EU is, I don't really see why I have to reproduce it on request just so narrow minded party lemmings can attempt to shoot it down using arguments that only convince themselves0 -
TC - Thatcher fell into promising the poll tax and it undid her. Before that her govt shadowed the deutschmark and eventually joined the ERM.
Major and Clarke actually controlled spending and reduced deficits and it was Brown who went further by promising to follow Major/Clarke's spending plans.
Its not clear to me how Hague following a save the £ election campaign can be said to be ditching the right wing. You pointedly gloss over IDS and ignore his transformation into a Welfare Secretary.
I find it incredible that you can characterise Cameron - who as leader of a coalition has raised tax allowances and lowered the top rate of income tax and massively cut public sector employment and brought in free schools and cut welfare entitlements and promises stricter anti strike laws and brought in billions of economies in the NHS and promised negotiations plus a referendum on the EU and has already prepared the ground for replacing Trident - as abandoning the right wing.0 -
I assume there will be no discernible change since he was proposed by the current PM (Renzi) and is a long term supporter of the previous PM (Prodi).TCPoliticalBetting said:
What about writing about what this may mean for the EC and UK for a thread article (eh TSE/OGH)?AndreaParma_82 said:Italian presidency election...
Mattarella is over 400 votes now....it looks he will be elected in a few minutes...0 -
I haven't been following the debate on Cameron but something has struck me about him for a long time:
He sounds posh.
No, seriously, he still sounds posh.
Anthony Charles Lynton 'call me Tone' Blair saw fit to remove his posho accent with something midstream and street. Cameron, for all his alleged faults and pandering to causes that the Tory right dislike, has never tried to mask his poshness. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to tone (ho ho) it down a little at a time. He hasn't. He sounds just as much of a posh boy as he ever did.
That shows some strength of character.0 -
They wouldn't have gone along with it if they hadn't thought there was at least a chance they might lose. As well blame the £300k of private polling Westminster paid for; presumably that wasn't unalloyed good news, otherwise there wouldn't have been the the symphony of squeaky bums in the weeks running up to the referendum that culminated in the Vow.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Divvie, indeed, the three parties/party leaders were damned fools to go along with it, but Brown was the instigator.
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Student loans are an absolute and utter shambles currently, but I'm not convinced Labour's plans are any better
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2933952/Labour-hit-graduates-tax-fund-cap-tuition-fees-claims-better-affordable-fair.html
The National Union of Students proposed an extra tax of between 0.3 per cent and 2.5 per cent of their income above £15,000, for a period of 20 years, with the highest earners paying higher rates.
http://www.studentloanrepayment.co.uk/portal/page?_pageid=93,6678571&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
took out your first student loan in or before academic year 2005/06, then it will be cancelled when you turn 65; or
took out your first student loan in or after academic year 2006/07, then it will be cancelled 25 years after you became eligible to repay
How much do I repay?
You will repay 9% of anything you earn over the income threshold.
The UK income threshold is:
£16,910 before tax per year
Either it creates a bit of a hole in Labour's finances OR they'll have to levy the "extra tax" at a rate a fair chunk above 2.5%.
A quick back of the fag packet calculation means that I'd be ~ £500-£1000 this year better off if I was under Labour's plan, but probably worse off by the time I hit my mid forties.
Also whats the plan for the millions of people still with outstanding (And indeed paid) loans ?0 -
So George Osborne lacks strength of character?audreyanne said:I haven't been following the debate on Cameron but something has struck me about him for a long time:
He sounds posh.
No, seriously, he still sounds posh.
Anthony Charles Lynton 'call me Tone' Blair saw fit to remove his posho accent with something midstream and street. Cameron, for all his alleged faults and pandering to causes that the Tory right dislike, has never tried to mask his poshness. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to tone (ho ho) it down a little at a time. He hasn't. He sounds just as much of a posh boy as he ever did.
That shows some strength of character.0 -
Can I get a clarification from perhaps @NickPalmer on this, is the tax (I sincerely hope it isn't) going to be charged onto existing graduates ?0
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God bless and preserve Viscounts .... and :Easterross said:Hurrah, the Saturday Herders slot and another good one. Almost certainly we are going to get thoroughly blue blooded Tory economics for this election campaign and none of the hug-a-Milibland crap. The Green's leader is eloquent and bonkers. They would have us living in a world a bit like the fictional Revolution set in post electricity USA. However for every vote she and her devoted followers take from the Bland bunch, we see the prospect of people like NPXMP being re-elected becoming more remote and Labour, not Tory marginal seats falling blue in May.
Vote Viscount.
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On immigration he made a mistake, certainly, on tying it to net immigration. But, to be fair, EU immigration to the UK has been (I believe) much higher than the past because of the relative success of the UK economy vs. the Eurozone.Indigo said:
What he promised was not deliverable will within the EU even with a majority Conservative government. Promising something you are not capable of delivering is a lie.Charles said:* Immigration: he tried, within the constraints of EU membership. He wasn't successful, but he tried. You can argue he failed, but not that he lied.
Do you have a reference for that, they were pretty pissed off about it when they were interview in the papers a couple of weeks ago. The agreement in any case was to hold a vote, not to win it.Charles said:* Hunting: was pre-discussed with the Countryside Alliance senior leadership team and agreed. They didn't have the numbers to win the vote and felt that holding it and losing would be a serious setback to the cause. A change of plan, but not a lie.
Seriously we just need to show a bit of principle, if you cant deliver it, don't promise it. And for crying out loud don't try an weasel out of it with all this transparent "it was just a comment" crap when it was splashed all over the pre-election newsletter under the headline "If we don’t deliver, kick us out"
On Hunting it depends who you talk to (I don't know the interview you are referencing). I know the agreement was to hold a vote, but if you discuss it with the representatives of the community and agree a changed plan that's not a lie. It's a changed plan.
On your last comment I thought the "emergency brake" and stuff was much more recent - certainly since the election/coalition agreement?
A good example of his willingness to keep his word is the fact that he has protected certain wasteful pensioner benefits despite it being economically foolish and making it much harder to hit his deficit numbers. If he was a liar by nature he would have done something simple like make them taxable.
Fundamentally I don't believe that Cameron is any more of a liar than any politician (and less than many). He over-promises and has to change as circumstances change, but that's no bad thing0 -
If he took a personality test he'd fail.isam said:
So George Osborne lacks strength of character?audreyanne said:I haven't been following the debate on Cameron but something has struck me about him for a long time:
He sounds posh.
No, seriously, he still sounds posh.
Anthony Charles Lynton 'call me Tone' Blair saw fit to remove his posho accent with something midstream and street. Cameron, for all his alleged faults and pandering to causes that the Tory right dislike, has never tried to mask his poshness. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to tone (ho ho) it down a little at a time. He hasn't. He sounds just as much of a posh boy as he ever did.
That shows some strength of character.0 -
They maybe have more ability in the party.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
However they thought to win elections you are required to look the part.
So they picked the nearest imitation game to Blair ,the one Cameron led a standing ovation in parliament for.
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Cameron shifted away from what he promised in areas such as the EC, immigration, HRA etc. All either explainable or avoidable.Flightpath said:.........
I find it incredible that you can characterise Cameron - who as leader of a coalition has raised tax allowances and lowered the top rate of income tax and massively cut public sector employment and brought in free schools and cut welfare entitlements and promises stricter anti strike laws and brought in billions of economies in the NHS and promised negotiations plus a referendum on the EU and has already prepared the ground for replacing Trident - as abandoning the right wing.
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Yes. Feel better?isam said:
So George Osborne lacks strength of character?audreyanne said:I haven't been following the debate on Cameron but something has struck me about him for a long time:
He sounds posh.
No, seriously, he still sounds posh.
Anthony Charles Lynton 'call me Tone' Blair saw fit to remove his posho accent with something midstream and street. Cameron, for all his alleged faults and pandering to causes that the Tory right dislike, has never tried to mask his poshness. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to tone (ho ho) it down a little at a time. He hasn't. He sounds just as much of a posh boy as he ever did.
That shows some strength of character.
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I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.0 -
Student loans have been a fiasco under David Willetts, but nobody in the Consrvatives can bring themselves to admit it.Pulpstar said:Student loans are an absolute and utter shambles currently, but I'm not convinced Labour's plans are any better
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2933952/Labour-hit-graduates-tax-fund-cap-tuition-fees-claims-better-affordable-fair.html
The National Union of Students proposed an extra tax of between 0.3 per cent and 2.5 per cent of their income above £15,000, for a period of 20 years, with the highest earners paying higher rates.
http://www.studentloanrepayment.co.uk/portal/page?_pageid=93,6678571&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
took out your first student loan in or before academic year 2005/06, then it will be cancelled when you turn 65; or
took out your first student loan in or after academic year 2006/07, then it will be cancelled 25 years after you became eligible to repay
How much do I repay?
You will repay 9% of anything you earn over the income threshold.
The UK income threshold is:
£16,910 before tax per year
Either it creates a bit of a hole in Labour's finances OR they'll have to levy the "extra tax" at a rate a fair chunk above 2.5%.
A quick back of the fag packet calculation means that I'd be ~ £500-£1000 this year better off if I was under Labour's plan, but probably worse off by the time I hit my mid forties.
Also whats the plan for the millions of people still with outstanding (And indeed paid) loans ?0 -
UKPR has UKIP on 15%. I think their highest rating was 16%. I can't really see that as a "downward trend"MikeK said:
More of your bullsh*t TGOHF.TGOHF said:Glad to see the downward purple trend being acknowledged in the thread header.
Apart from the odd 23% in Daily Mirror polls Gravity is catching up..
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2015_United_Kingdom_general_election#/image/File:UK_opinion_polling_2010-2015.png
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Leaving aside the promises until they are actually delivered, remembering that we promised to cut immigration and didn't.Flightpath said:I find it incredible that you can characterise Cameron - who as leader of a coalition has raised tax allowances and lowered the top rate of income tax and massively cut public sector employment and brought in free schools and cut welfare entitlements and promises stricter anti strike laws and brought in billions of economies in the NHS and promised negotiations plus a referendum on the EU and has already prepared the ground for replacing Trident - as abandoning the right wing.
In respect of the tax changes, its hardly a massive display of talent to deliver changes that were in the manifesto of your coalition partner now is it ?
Healthcare spending in 2010 was 116bn, this year its almost 133bn. In real terms that no net change at all, not a cut.
Free schools are Adonis's idea.
Otherwise I will grant you welfare, although that is more to do with economic recovery than anything else.
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Yes a shambles. One caused by leaving it to Lib Dem Cable and wet conservative Willetts. Set up a system that only makes sense in period s of higher wage inflation. But they both got a warm feeling for the social engineering benefits they percieved would follow. Heck but what if they fkd the public finances? Would they understand that?Pulpstar said:Student loans are an absolute and utter shambles currently, but I'm not convinced Labour's plans are any better
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2933952/Labour-hit-graduates-tax-fund-cap-tuition-fees-claims-better-affordable-fair.html
Also whats the plan for the millions of people still with outstanding (And indeed paid) loans ?
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I tend to view it as 5 wasted years. He has done nothing substantial simply drifted from one thing to the other. A second term if he gets one will be much the same.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.0 -
O/T I see that today's Times shares many of the same criticisms of the DPP's rape prosecution guidance that were expressed here.0
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I understand he tried to go for some voice coaching, but the instructor wasn't prepared to work with him while your lips were attached to his posterior. Its much more likely he didn't think it was important, or was too busy.audreyanne said:That shows some strength of character.
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@Alanbrooke I think a Graduate tax could work... in theory - but I'm honestly struggling to see a financially fair way of doing it when a great many graduates (Including yours truly) have existing debt which we're slowly and steadily paying down (I should clear it in about 6-10 years all else being equal)0
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Same as I did before you postedTCPoliticalBetting said:
Yes. Feel better?isam said:
So George Osborne lacks strength of character?audreyanne said:I haven't been following the debate on Cameron but something has struck me about him for a long time:
He sounds posh.
No, seriously, he still sounds posh.
Anthony Charles Lynton 'call me Tone' Blair saw fit to remove his posho accent with something midstream and street. Cameron, for all his alleged faults and pandering to causes that the Tory right dislike, has never tried to mask his poshness. It would have been the easiest thing in the world to tone (ho ho) it down a little at a time. He hasn't. He sounds just as much of a posh boy as he ever did.
That shows some strength of character.0 -
Will there be a more amusingly named candidate this year?
"We Beat The Scum One Nil" got 155 votes in leeds central last time around.
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/leeds-united-fan-aims-to-pull-off-general-election-upset-1-22438720 -
It's tetchy in here today!
Just the two polls that we know of I think? Opinium and YouGov?
Opinium tend to have low ratings for the Conservatives. The last one had them on 28%, so I'm looking here for the trend rather than anything sensational.0 -
I think I'd give the current government a reasonable amount of credit for the economy, but not a lot else. I'd award them a C overall.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
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To be honest, I think your time would be better spent working out the wrinkles of your "beat defenceless prisoners about the head with baseball bats, on a daily basis" policy. You appear to have invested much more thought into it than a UK exit from the EU, from the evidence provided so far.isam said:
Don't put yourself down.. I accepted the half hearted politicians apology, don't worry xsaddened said:
Pitiful from start to end. It boils down to "I could but shan't so there!" Might work in a playground but not anywhere else.isam said:saddened said:
1, it would be easier to admit you can't.isam said:
ologise for repeatedly accusing me of deleting/editing a post that I hadnt btw? You said your phone was playing up and you'd do it later that day... I'm sure someone who thinks they are onto something like you would be sure to want to be seen admitting a mistake?saddened said:
Outline any then, you already have several in mind you say, so it should be easy.isam said:
Who knows which is most likely to succeed? The market will decidesaddened said:
Good outline the most likely for us.isam said:
I can imagine several paths to that outcomesaddened said:isam said:
Whenever it is we leave he will say he was a Eurosceptic all along... A chancer with no conviction, amazed lemmings follow him over the topsaddened said:
Talk us through how 5 years from now the UK is no longer in the EU.isam said:Holidays in apartheid SA / Sorrow for mandela
Vote for clause 28 / gay marriage
Vote blue go green / green crap
In 2020 once we've left the Eu and he's the ex pm trying to sell a book no doubt he will be a Eurosceptic
x
But when we leave, cameron will convert to euro scepticism...
2, as for following Dave, I'm happy to criticize him when appropriate as I did with the leader debates
3,as for apologies, yes I did, I lost track of who said what in the multiple referencing
If you want to be taken remotely seriously have at least an inkling of the argument you are making.
I won't ask you how uk will leave the EU again, because it's obvious you haven't got the vaguest idea.0 -
I think that's a fair assessment.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
A Prime Minister of a Coalition government during a period of economic turmoil, not of your making, is a very different kettle of fish from say the benign inheritance and landslide administration of the Blair years.
That said aspects of Coalition policy on defence (cuts much too far) and education (my preference for a return to Grammar schools) have disappointed. Thus a solid B is a decent call.
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I always took the view that higher rate tax was more of a levy on graduates. Now it appears we're taxing them twice - what price education ?Pulpstar said:@Alanbrooke I think a Graduate tax could work... in theory - but I'm honestly struggling to see a financially fair way of doing it when a great many graduates (Including yours truly) have existing debt which we're slowly and steadily paying down (I should clear it in about 6-10 years all else being equal)
It also strikes me that the full impact of the extra taxes will take sometime to come in to the public conscience. Your ability to buy a house is somewhat restrcited when you're paying another 9% tax.
Personally I'd just slash the DFID budget and restore free fees, I's rather invest in our children's future than the indian space programme.0 -
@TCPoliticalBetting
To Kippers TC, there is no difference between Tory Socialism and Labour Socialism. That is why I think your reliance on Cameron is misplaced.
I voted Tory in the last GE - you can see my posts from PB - in the hope that Cameron would be better in office than he was as leader of the opposition. What a forlorn hope; never again.0 -
Frankly I'm amazed at that, the economy has been one of their biggest failings.Sean_F said:
I think I'd give the current government a reasonable amount of credit for the economy, but not a lot else. I'd award them a C overall.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.0 -
Absurd.Alanbrooke said:
I tend to view it as 5 wasted years. He has done nothing substantial simply drifted from one thing to the other. A second term if he gets one will be much the same.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
Local govt employment numbers is not drift, neither is the pensions reform that Alan Johnson ducked. We have a coalition govt and the tories can be pleased with the reforms they have brought in. I was willing to give the LDs a fair shot but the contrast between them and tories is stark.
Attempting to do things inevitably results in setbacks and mistakes. There is not a leader or general in the world who is omnipotent and mistake free. its important to maintain your purpose and struggle through 'events'. The remembrance of Churchill's funeral reminds us of him and his important role. Whatever he achieved in life there is one thing - he made many mistakes.0 -
Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.0 -
Surely A for presentation.Sean_F said:
I think I'd give the current government a reasonable amount of credit for the economy, but not a lot else. I'd award them a C overall.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
Bloody Sunday Enquiry.
Hillsborough.
Standing next to Obama.
C for the rest
D for Syria and the handling of Parliament0 -
I cant find the article from a month or two ago, but its been going on for a while, as you can see here they are pretty brassed off with the Tories about hunting and other things, doesnt read like they have been smoothed over.Charles said:
On Hunting it depends who you talk to (I don't know the interview you are referencing). I know the agreement was to hold a vote, but if you discuss it with the representatives of the community and agree a changed plan that's not a lie. It's a changed plan.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/countryside/10416022/Conservative-support-has-dropped-by-a-fifth-in-rural-areas-poll-claims.html
and they are still on the war path now.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/countryside-alliance-seeks-repeal-pledge-conservatives-454449
not to mention
http://www.countryside-alliance.org/ca/campaigns-hunting/the-spectators-front-page-david-cameron-has-lost-the-countryside"Rural Tories have finally woken up to the fact that Cameron despises them. He prefers the idea of Nick Clegg to his own grass roots."
In business its usual to under promise and over deliver, it makes your customers happy, doing the opposite makes them feel short-changed.Charles said:Fundamentally I don't believe that Cameron is any more of a liar than any politician (and less than many). He over-promises and has to change as circumstances change, but that's no bad thing
0 -
Reducing the deficit by a third, without crashing the economy and facilitating an unprecedented growth in employmentAlanbrooke said:
I tend to view it as 5 wasted years. He has done nothing substantial simply drifted from one thing to the other. A second term if he gets one will be much the same.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
Massive expansion of the free schools and academy programmes
Putting in place a plan to transform the welfare state (admittedly subject to execution risk)
Those are really really substantial. Sure, I'd have loved it if he had been more sensible on DfID, if he'd cut the deficit faster, if he's restructured the banking sector (although I suspect the last can only be done in better economic climes)
But definitely not "5 wasted years". If you want that, look at Blair 1997-2001.0 -
Let's take the average of you, me and Richard Nabavi's AAA+++Sean_F said:
I think I'd give the current government a reasonable amount of credit for the economy, but not a lot else. I'd award them a C overall.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
I reckon that makes me right 0 -
I still loved the 'Putting the Tat back in Tatton' candidate or, to give her the proper name: Miss Moneypenny of Miss Moneypenny's Glamorous One Party. The 7ft "transformer" was replete in a massive drag costume and stood behind the returning officer at the declaration. It's one of my abiding memories of 1997. It seemed somehow so gloriously apposite for the end of what had become a sorry, sordid shambles of a governing party. And I admit that as a Conservative. Theresa got it right.Pong said:Will there be a more amusingly named candidate this year?
"We Beat The Scum One Nil" got 155 votes in leeds central last time around.
http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest-news/top-stories/leeds-united-fan-aims-to-pull-off-general-election-upset-1-2243872
You can see Miss Moneypenny here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS6SE9IGOeQ
'She' managed to stand right behind the returning officer, although she's not hard to spot. Marvellous stuff.0 -
JackW said:
I think that's a fair assessment.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
A Prime Minister of a Coalition government during a period of economic turmoil, not of your making, is a very different kettle of fish from say the benign inheritance and landslide administration of the Blair years.
That said aspects of Coalition policy on defence (cuts much too far) and education (my preference for a return to Grammar schools) have disappointed. Thus a solid B is a decent call.
I agree. While wholesale upheaval is the last thing required in education, it is time to end the ludicrous prohibition on building new Grammar schools. Deeds not words are now required. A pilot scheme, possibly via the free schools program, should permit some modest increase in provision for selective education, and lets see how things go.
0 -
Leaving aside arguing the points - none of them change the fact that you cannot characterise Cameron as abandoning the right wing.Indigo said:
Leaving aside the promises until they are actually delivered, remembering that we promised to cut immigration and didn't.Flightpath said:I find it incredible that you can characterise Cameron - who as leader of a coalition has raised tax allowances and lowered the top rate of income tax and massively cut public sector employment and brought in free schools and cut welfare entitlements and promises stricter anti strike laws and brought in billions of economies in the NHS and promised negotiations plus a referendum on the EU and has already prepared the ground for replacing Trident - as abandoning the right wing.
In respect of the tax changes, its hardly a massive display of talent to deliver changes that were in the manifesto of your coalition partner now is it ?
Healthcare spending in 2010 was 116bn, this year its almost 133bn. In real terms that no net change at all, not a cut.
Free schools are Adonis's idea.
Otherwise I will grant you welfare, although that is more to do with economic recovery than anything else.
On healthcare a large programme of efficiencies and savings has been pursued. It makes it no less a laudable thing to say that Brown promised the same savings. Compare health spending now to spending increases that the NHS had grown used to under labour. Allowing for normal as opposed even to health care inflation you can see that £16 billion over 5 years is not much at all.
0 -
Will you vote for him then, albeit grudgingly?JackW said:
I think that's a fair assessment.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
A Prime Minister of a Coalition government during a period of economic turmoil, not of your making, is a very different kettle of fish from say the benign inheritance and landslide administration of the Blair years.
That said aspects of Coalition policy on defence (cuts much too far) and education (my preference for a return to Grammar schools) have disappointed. Thus a solid B is a decent call.0 -
To be honest, I don't really care what you thinksaddened said:
To be honest, I think your time would be better spent working out the wrinkles of your "beat defenceless prisoners about the head with baseball bats, on a daily basis" policy. You appear to have invested much more thought into it than a UK exit from the EU, from the evidence provided so far.isam said:
Don't put yourself down.. I accepted the half hearted politicians apology, don't worry xsaddened said:
Pitiful from start to end. It boils down to "I could but shan't so there!" Might work in a playground but not anywhere else.isam said:saddened said:
1, it would be easier to admit you can't.isam said:
?saddened said:
Outline any then, you already have several in mind you say, so it should be easy.isam said:
Who knows which is most likely to succeed? The market will decidesaddened said:
Good outline the most likely for us.isam said:
I can imagine several paths to that outcomesaddened said:isam said:
Whenever it is we leave he will say he was a Eurosceptic all along... A chancer with no conviction, amazed lemmings follow him over the topsaddened said:
Talk us through how 5 years from now the UK is no longer in the EU.isam said:Holidays in apartheid SA / Sorrow for mandela
Vote for clause 28 / gay marriage
Vote blue go green / green crap
In 2020 once we've left the Eu and he's the ex pm trying to sell a book no doubt he will be a Eurosceptic
x
But when we leave, cameron will convert to euro scepticism...
2, as for following Dave, I'm happy to criticize him when appropriate as I did with the leader debates
3,as for apologies, yes I did, I lost track of who said what in the multiple referencing
If you want to be taken remotely seriously have at least an inkling of the argument you are making.
I won't ask you how uk will leave the EU again, because it's obvious you haven't got the vaguest idea.
But just in case anyone is fooled by your clumsy sleight of hand, I only think that is justified for terrorists/traitors such as the people who beheaded Lee Rigby
Sorry you had to stoop to misleading smokescreens to try but fail to beat me in an argument, I will put in less effort next time
0 -
@Alanbrooke Indeed - it's an internal economy anyway.Alanbrooke said:
I always took the view that higher rate tax was more of a levy on graduates. Now it appears we're taxing them twice - what price education ?Pulpstar said:@Alanbrooke I think a Graduate tax could work... in theory - but I'm honestly struggling to see a financially fair way of doing it when a great many graduates (Including yours truly) have existing debt which we're slowly and steadily paying down (I should clear it in about 6-10 years all else being equal)
It also strikes me that the full impact of the extra taxes will take sometime to come in to the public conscience. Your ability to buy a house is somewhat restrcited when you're paying another 9% tax.
Personally I'd just slash the DFID budget and restore free fees, I's rather invest in our children's future than the indian space programme.
@Alanbrooke As you'll see in my PM I've got it more or less equivalent to the grants compared to more recent students who are graduating with a debt of £44,035, their interest rate is way above mine iirc too so theirs won't go down.
Not worked it out but I reckon the average graduate's salary is a country mile below whats needed to ever pay that off. So in effect ~80?% of new graduates have an ADDITIONAL 9% tax for 25 years above £17,000 anyway.0 -
No.Easterross said:Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.
Total waste of effort. London Conservatives should concentrate on the marginals and not wishful thinking against a bête noir.
0 -
"It's tetchy in here today!"audreyanne said:It's tetchy in here today!
Just the two polls that we know of I think? Opinium and YouGov?
Opinium tend to have low ratings for the Conservatives. The last one had them on 28%, so I'm looking here for the trend rather than anything sensational.
Yeah a couple of people pointed out U turns by St Dave... like a match to gunpowder0 -
Deficit he promised to eliminate it and didn;t. If you couldn't come up with another £10 billion of cash we're pissing up the wall you're not the manager I think you are .Charles said:
Reducing the deficit by a third, without crashing the economy and facilitating an unprecedented growth in employmentAlanbrooke said:
I tend to view it as 5 wasted years. He has done nothing substantial simply drifted from one thing to the other. A second term if he gets one will be much the same.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
Massive expansion of the free schools and academy programmes
Putting in place a plan to transform the welfare state (admittedly subject to execution risk)
Those are really really substantial. Sure, I'd have loved it if he had been more sensible on DfID, if he'd cut the deficit faster, if he's restructured the banking sector (although I suspect the last can only be done in better economic climes)
But definitely not "5 wasted years". If you want that, look at Blair 1997-2001.
Higher education finance totally fked up freeschools and academies jury's still out.
A plan. Not actual transformation. We fought 2 world wars in the time it has taken for a plan.
his legacy will be gay marriage which while nice to do wasn't on anyone's priority list, not even the gay community's.
0 -
Ah, so you are just a person who happy to sling around insults at people without having the guts to back up your allegations. Are you a typical member of UKIP?MikeK said:
I really can't be bothered to list all his crimes against his own party and the British people. From lying about Pasties to the EU, he has proved himself a fake conservative, although he probably remains a High Tory. Now work that out for yourself, if you can.Financier said:
Please prove your claims of liar, chancer and dissembler from fact and not just your opinion.MikeK said:
Yes it is depressing that the Tory hinterland voted in a real chancer, liar, and dissembler as it's leader. A leader who has surrounded himself with likewise people. Thus the rise and rise of UKIPJonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
0 -
Of course it is. But politics isn't business.Indigo said:
In business its usual to under promise and over deliver, it makes your customers happy, doing the opposite makes them feel short-changed.
If you have an alternative that is lying through it's teeth with no way for the bulk of the potential customers to validate the promises then, unfortunately, telling the unvarnished truth is unlikely to result in success0 -
I'm sure it won't be quicker than Twitter, but for those not already signed up.
Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft Jan 27
register at http://lordashcroftpolls.com if you want the Scottish individual seats polling released next week direct to your inbox and oh pls RT0 -
IDS never lost a GE as leader!TCPoliticalBetting said:
The Heath Govt promised capitalism and then abandoned their right wing and lost the GE.antifrank said:
The Conservatives obsessed about the EU in 1997, 2001 and 2005. They did so less in 2010. Spot a possible pattern?Indigo said:
......Most estimates suggest that the kippers are 2:1 Tory/Labour, which means with the kippers at 15%, 10% of that is ex-Tory, I would be interested in any evidence you have to suggest that he had picked up enough votes in his drift into Guardian territory to offset that loss of votes.antifrank said:David Cameron was right to attack the Conservatives' image. Their problem, however, was not that they were seen as the nasty party, but the nasty and incompetent party. He therefore sought to detox with the wrong emphasis.
The Conservatives' problem threatens to return. Few people think that the biggest problem facing Britain is the membership of one supranational organisation (there is a rather better case to be made that the future of the planet should be the number one priority). Yet it absorbs the energies of most of the right side of the political spectrum.
David Cameron should have been pitching himself as the sensible pragmatic leader, not the veto-wielding friend of swivel-eyed loons, who in any case distrust him. He resisted for a while, then gave in. It will be his ultimate undoing.
For one thing it does make any sense in policy terms, the Guardianista metro-elite vote likes their social liberalism served with either no austerity............
This tired old saw about winning elections in the centre ground is only true if you manage to hang on to your core vote, something Dave has spectacularly failed to do. I would suggest there is another significant group of right wing Tories who might poll as Dave supporters, but are going to decide on the day they really cant be bothered.
Incidentally people think the top issue recently is immigration, which we cant do anything about in the EU, so that is a proxy for caring about the EU, several other similar items are near the top of the list, strangely the Environment is usually at the bottom.
The Thatcher Govts promised capitalism, stuck to it and succeeded.
The Major 92 Govt promised capitalism and then abandoned their right wing and lost the GE.
The Hague team promised capitalism and then abandoned their right wing and lost the GE.
IDS - just had a very duff Leader to start with.
Cameron promised capitalism at his selection and then abandoned the right wing and failed to win the GE.
Cameron in Govt promised capitalism and then abandoned their right wing and has a 50/50 chances of losing this GE.
(ps replace capitalism with "classic liberalism")0 -
With some notable exceptions I'd vote for the best placed of the Con or LibDem in my constituency.Charles said:
Will you vote for him then, albeit grudgingly?JackW said:
I think that's a fair assessment.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
A Prime Minister of a Coalition government during a period of economic turmoil, not of your making, is a very different kettle of fish from say the benign inheritance and landslide administration of the Blair years.
That said aspects of Coalition policy on defence (cuts much too far) and education (my preference for a return to Grammar schools) have disappointed. Thus a solid B is a decent call.
0 -
And yet it's very likely that the LDs will have 3 or 4 times as many MPs as UKIP, maybe thirty times more than the Greens (maybe infinitely more).AndyJS said:
With respect I haven't seen anyone suggesting the Greens have even the slightest chance of receiving more votes than UKIP. They might have an outside chance of getting more votes than the LDs.Pulpstar said:UKIP will outpoll the Greens, I'm very confident of that.
Going to be an expensive night for the Lib Dems as the national polling and local strength points towards perhaps the most unevenly distributed vote share ever. The flipside of that is that they simply must lose a tremendous amount of deposits, or the numbers won't add up.
The greengasm... strength in the 18-24 yr old range, all looks a bit 2010 Cleggasm to me. Will getting 4% be a "good night" for the Greens, I think they'll be squeezed personally - they don't have major party status (Is that AS important any more though, with the rise of social media ?!)0 -
and becasue the bulk of grads can't pay the loan off the cost will fall back on the taxpayers at a future date.Pulpstar said:
@Alanbrooke Indeed - it's an internal economy anyway.Alanbrooke said:
I always took the view that higher rate tax was more of a levy on graduates. Now it appears we're taxing them twice - what price education ?Pulpstar said:@Alanbrooke I think a Graduate tax could work... in theory - but I'm honestly struggling to see a financially fair way of doing it when a great many graduates (Including yours truly) have existing debt which we're slowly and steadily paying down (I should clear it in about 6-10 years all else being equal)
It also strikes me that the full impact of the extra taxes will take sometime to come in to the public conscience. Your ability to buy a house is somewhat restrcited when you're paying another 9% tax.
Personally I'd just slash the DFID budget and restore free fees, I's rather invest in our children's future than the indian space programme.
@Alanbrooke As you'll see in my PM I've got it more or less equivalent to the grants compared to more recent students who are graduating with a debt of £44,035, their interest rate is way above mine iirc too so theirs won't go down.
Not worked it out but I reckon the average graduate's salary is a country mile below whats needed to ever pay that off. So in effect ~80?% of new graduates have an ADDITIONAL 9% tax for 25 years above £17,000 anyway.
so a loan scheme which was meant to alleviate the taxpayer will come back and whack us and since the Idiot Willetts trebled the fees it;s a triple whammy coming down the line.
And yet where' the outrage ? Conservatives who were happy to rant about waste on NHS computers are remarkably silent at a financial disaster which will eclipse it if not stopped.0 -
The best hope of winning an EU referendum is for UKIP to have as many MP's as possible and there to be a weak minority govt which relies on UKIP votes in the commons
Telling UKIP voters to vote Cameron is not the best way0 -
The fact you think beating defenceless prisoners with baseball bats on a daily basis when discussing policy is a smokescreen is bizarre. Have you actually put any thought into the implications of what you are suggesting? Hiring members of the state to beat people, daily, with baseball bats, is bat shit insane.isam said:
To be honest, I don't really care what you thinksaddened said:
To be honest, I think your time would be better spent working out the wrinkles of your "beat defenceless prisoners about the head with baseball bats, on a daily basis" policy. You appear to have invested much more thought into it than a UK exit from the EU, from the evidence provided so far.isam said:
Don't put yourself down.. I accepted the half hearted politicians apology, don't worry xsaddened said:
Pitiful from start to end. It boils down to "I could but shan't so there!" Might work in a playground but not anywhere else.isam said:saddened said:
1, it would be easier to admit you can't.isam said:
2, as for following Dave, I'm happy to criticize him when appropriate as I did with the leader debates
3,as for apologies, yes I did, I lost track of who said what in the multiple referencing
If you want to be taken remotely seriously have at least an inkling of the argument you are making.
I won't ask you how uk will leave the EU again, because it's obvious you haven't got the vaguest idea.
But just in case anyone is fooled by your clumsy sleight of hand, I only think that is justified for terrorists/traitors such as the people who beheaded Lee Rigby
Sorry you had to stop to misleading smokescreens to try but fail to beat me in an argument, I will put in less effort next time0 -
Of course it is. But politics isn't business.Indigo said:
In business its usual to under promise and over deliver, it makes your customers happy, doing the opposite makes them feel short-changed.
If you have an alternative that is lying through it's teeth with no way for the bulk of the potential customers to validate the promises then, unfortunately, telling the unvarnished truth is unlikely to result in success
You can ignore the Melissa Kite article - she's got a particular issue with HS2 (her parents house was blighted but just outside the automatic compensation area. I believe they have been granted discretionary compensation now)Indigo said:
I cant find the article from a month or two ago, but its been going on for a while, as you can see here they are pretty brassed off with the Tories about hunting and other things, doesnt read like they have been smoothed over
The Countryside Alliance is, of course, demanding a repeal pledge ahead of the manifesto being drafted. Like any interest group with something to offer (their marginal campaign team) they are trying to maximise the return. I'm not sure when the poll was taken, but 66% Tory/13% UKIP (4% LD, 2% Labour) leaves a big chunk (15%) missing - presumably "don't know". That seems like a lower switch to other parties than ordinary voters, but a higher proportion of DKs.0 -
I've subbed.Theuniondivvie said:I'm sure it won't be quicker than Twitter, but for those not already signed up.
Lord Ashcroft @LordAshcroft Jan 27
register at http://lordashcroftpolls.com if you want the Scottish individual seats polling released next week direct to your inbox and oh pls RT
Hoping for a Labour massacre.0 -
Jack if you are still around, don't post references to Viscounts. Sunil will respond by posting more links to photos of little round chocolate biscuits covered in coloured silver paper 0
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Doesn't Cameron's stance on Green matters sum the man up.
He focuses on Climate Change by driving a dog sled in the Arctic, but then refers to Green Crap when electricity prices go up. Does he actually stand for anything except gaining votes?0 -
@Alanbrooke They sold the pre 1998 loan book for a song, was a dreadful error - that loan book was a decent source of income. £160 million for it was a complete joke.0
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If it puts people off beheading soldiers heads in broad daylight I don't think the public would mindsaddened said:
The fact you think beating defenceless prisoners with baseball bats on a daily basis when discussing policy is a smokescreen is bizarre. Have you actually put any thought into the implications of what you are suggesting? Hiring members of the state to beat people, daily, with baseball bats, is bat shit insane.isam said:
To be honest, I don't really care what you thinksaddened said:
To be honest, I think your time would be better spent working out the wrinkles of your "beat defenceless prisoners about the head with baseball bats, on a daily basis" policy. You appear to have invested much more thought into it than a UK exit from the EU, from the evidence provided so far.isam said:
Don't put yourself down.. I accepted the half hearted politicians apology, don't worry xsaddened said:
Pitiful from start to end. It boils down to "I could but shan't so there!" Might work in a playground but not anywhere else.isam said:saddened said:isam said:
I won't ask you how uk will leave the EU again, because it's obvious you haven't got the vaguest idea.
But just in case anyone is fooled by your clumsy sleight of hand, I only think that is justified for terrorists/traitors such as the people who beheaded Lee Rigby
Sorry you had to stop to misleading smokescreens to try but fail to beat me in an argument, I will put in less effort next time
Good to see you willing to portray Adebajo et al in a sympathetic light to win an argument by the way
At least you're not giving me career advice (to be like everyone else or else) I suppose... small mercies0 -
Mrs JackW favours a nibble of both.Easterross said:Jack if you are still around, don't post references to Viscounts. Sunil will respond by posting more links to photos of little round chocolate biscuits covered in coloured silver paper
Er .... Viscounts and not Sunil I should explain ....
0 -
Cameron's handling of Scottish Independence was disastrous and he came far too close to being the last Prime Minister of the UK. His handling of the issue since the vote has been equally poor. His prioritisation of party issues has successfully pushed Scotland further away, when we should be coming together. Hugely damaging IMO.JackW said:
With some notable exceptions I'd vote for the best placed of the Con or LibDem in my constituency.Charles said:
Will you vote for him then, albeit grudgingly?JackW said:
I think that's a fair assessment.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
A Prime Minister of a Coalition government during a period of economic turmoil, not of your making, is a very different kettle of fish from say the benign inheritance and landslide administration of the Blair years.
That said aspects of Coalition policy on defence (cuts much too far) and education (my preference for a return to Grammar schools) have disappointed. Thus a solid B is a decent call.
On that issue alone he deserves an F.0 -
You should know by now that Isam doesn't care what other people think and that he's impossible to beat in an argument because he's always right.saddened said:
The fact you think beating defenceless prisoners with baseball bats on a daily basis when discussing policy is a smokescreen is bizarre. Have you actually put any thought into the implications of what you are suggesting? Hiring members of the state to beat people, daily, with baseball bats, is bat shit insane.isam said:
To be honest, I don't really care what you thinksaddened said:
To be honest, I think your time would be better spent working out the wrinkles of your "beat defenceless prisoners about the head with baseball bats, on a daily basis" policy. You appear to have invested much more thought into it than a UK exit from the EU, from the evidence provided so far.isam said:
Don't put yourself down.. I accepted the half hearted politicians apology, don't worry xsaddened said:
Pitiful from start to end. It boils down to "I could but shan't so there!" Might work in a playground but not anywhere else.isam said:saddened said:isam said:
If you want to be taken remotely seriously have at least an inkling of the argument you are making.
I won't ask you how uk will leave the EU again, because it's obvious you haven't got the vaguest idea.
But just in case anyone is fooled by your clumsy sleight of hand, I only think that is justified for terrorists/traitors such as the people who beheaded Lee Rigby
Sorry you had to stop to misleading smokescreens to try but fail to beat me in an argument, I will put in less effort next time0 -
I think an important factor to note in Scotland is that the Sinclair family dynasty is a long way from the central belt...0
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The video version of that comment.isam said:The best hope of winning an EU referendum is for UKIP to have as many MP's as possible and there to be a weak minority govt which relies on UKIP votes in the commons
Telling UKIP voters to vote Cameron is not the best way
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tNfGyIW7aHM0 -
Middle East Eye @MiddleEastEye 26m26 minutes ago
BREAKING NEWS: An Egyptian court has reportedly banned Hamas, listed group as a 'terrorist organisation'. More to follow. #Egypt #Hamas0 -
On topic: For me the main attraction in voting Conservative in 2010 was Cameron's "Vote Blue, go green" agenda. It's also the main reason why the Conservatives have lost my vote (having had it at every previous GE that I've voted in since 1997). In government they haven't been even remotely green. Of course there are other reasons why I can't vote for them (not least their anti-immigration posturing) - and my own opinions have, of course, moved leftwards over the years.
Anyway, it's clear to me now that the only way to get green is to vote Green. I've just donated a modest sum to the Green Party's Crowdfunder campaign to see a Green candidate in as many seats as possible. Money well spent, I reckon.0 -
JackW said:
No.Easterross said:Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.
Total waste of effort. London Conservatives should concentrate on the marginals and not wishful thinking against a bête noir.
You're wrong Jack. Quite wrong. Very interesting situation there ...Easterross said:Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.
It's my tip for THE shock of the night. It remains an outside chance but it's definitely worth the effort being put in on the ground.0 -
Telegraph News @TelegraphNews 9m9 minutes ago
Tory ministers accused of stealth campaigning on public purse as research reveals repeated trips to marginals http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11380987/Tory-ministers-accused-of-stealth-campaigning-on-public-purse-as-research-reveals-repeated-trips-to-marginals.html …
Looks like Donations are not enough for Cammo and Co.0 -
LOL, have you looked at Miliband's popularity NOTB ? It says something when a plummy southern Tory posho can get higher ratings.Jonathan said:
Cameron's handling of Scottish Independence was disastrous and he came far too close to being the last Prime Minister of the UK. His handling of the issue since the vote has been equally poor. His prioritisation of party issues has successfully pushed Scotland further away, when we should be coming together. Hugely damaging IMO.JackW said:
With some notable exceptions I'd vote for the best placed of the Con or LibDem in my constituency.Charles said:
Will you vote for him then, albeit grudgingly?JackW said:
I think that's a fair assessment.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
A Prime Minister of a Coalition government during a period of economic turmoil, not of your making, is a very different kettle of fish from say the benign inheritance and landslide administration of the Blair years.
That said aspects of Coalition policy on defence (cuts much too far) and education (my preference for a return to Grammar schools) have disappointed. Thus a solid B is a decent call.
On that issue alone he deserves an F.0 -
Telling @JackW he's QUITE wrong is ... brave.audreyanne said:JackW said:
No.Easterross said:Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.
Total waste of effort. London Conservatives should concentrate on the marginals and not wishful thinking against a bête noir.
You're wrong Jack. Quite wrong. Very interesting situation there ...Easterross said:Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.
It's my tip for THE shock of the night. It remains an outside chance but it's definitely worth the effort being put in on the ground.0 -
Teddy Clark @TeddyUKIPClark 12m12 minutes ago
Euro falls as Greece rejects bailout talks with troika - Channel NewsAsia http://ln.is/cna.asia/jVpo0 reject Monopoly money in favour of Drachma
Sell your Euros!0 -
Cant be bothered to watchsaddened said:
The video version of that comment.isam said:The best hope of winning an EU referendum is for UKIP to have as many MP's as possible and there to be a weak minority govt which relies on UKIP votes in the commons
Telling UKIP voters to vote Cameron is not the best way
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tNfGyIW7aHM
Do as you please, I am not trying to affect your vote anyway.. I guess you'll be on my side when the Tory leader tells you to #justfollowingorders0 -
I am not always right, but you are just clueless and make things up.. I can only beat whats in front of melogical_song said:
You should know by now that Isam doesn't care what other people think and that he's impossible to beat in an argument because he's always right.saddened said:
The fact you think beating defenceless prisoners with baseball bats on a daily basis when discussing policy is a smokescreen is bizarre. Have you actually put any thought into the implications of what you are suggesting? Hiring members of the state to beat people, daily, with baseball bats, is bat shit insane.isam said:
To be honest, I don't really care what you thinksaddened said:
To be honest, I think your time would be better spent working out the wrinkles of your "beat defenceless prisoners about the head with baseball bats, on a daily basis" policy. You appear to have invested much more thought into it than a UK exit from the EU, from the evidence provided so far.isam said:
Don't put yourself down.. I accepted the half hearted politicians apology, don't worry xsaddened said:
Pitiful from start to end. It boils down to "I could but shan't so there!" Might work in a playground but not anywhere else.isam said:saddened said:isam said:
If you want to be taken remotely seriously have at least an inkling of the argument you are making.
I won't ask you how uk will leave the EU again, because it's obvious you haven't got the vaguest idea.
But just in case anyone is fooled by your clumsy sleight of hand, I only think that is justified for terrorists/traitors such as the people who beheaded Lee Rigby
Sorry you had to stop to misleading smokescreens to try but fail to beat me in an argument, I will put in less effort next time0 -
Not a python fan >?isam said:
Cant be bothered to watchsaddened said:
The video version of that comment.isam said:The best hope of winning an EU referendum is for UKIP to have as many MP's as possible and there to be a weak minority govt which relies on UKIP votes in the commons
Telling UKIP voters to vote Cameron is not the best way
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tNfGyIW7aHM
Do as you please, I am not trying to affect your vote anyway.. I guess you'll be on my side when the Tory leader tells you to #justfollowingorders0 -
Nigel Farage @Nigel_Farage 19m19 minutes ago
More money that #UKIP would save for taxpayers... http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/555332/Britain-has-wasted-2-1billion-European-Court-Human-Rights-cases …0 -
We need @Fluffythoughts prediction on all this - he's batshit insane but he called the oil slump more correctly than anyone else.MikeK said:Teddy Clark @TeddyUKIPClark 12m12 minutes ago
Euro falls as Greece rejects bailout talks with troika - Channel NewsAsia http://ln.is/cna.asia/jVpo0 reject Monopoly money in favour of Drachma
Sell your Euros!0 -
Utter piffle.Jonathan said:
Cameron's handling of Scottish Independence was disastrous and he came far too close to being the last Prime Minister of the UK. His handling of the issue since the vote has been equally poor. His prioritisation of party issues has successfully pushed Scotland further away, when we should be coming together. Hugely damaging IMO.JackW said:
With some notable exceptions I'd vote for the best placed of the Con or LibDem in my constituency.Charles said:
Will you vote for him then, albeit grudgingly?JackW said:
I think that's a fair assessment.Charles said:
I'd give him a B, may be a B+ if I'm generous. No fundamental damage to our society or economy like Blair and Brown causes. No disastrous mistakes.Alanbrooke said:
So you're saying the Conservatives should have sought someone with more abilitiy ?Charles said:
He believes in serving the country to the best of his ability.Jonathan said:Rather depressing this really. With Cameron it's all tactics and positioning. After 10 years, were still none the wiser about what he actually believes beyond trying to keep his job.
That means examining each problem in turn and trying to optimise the outcome.
He doesn't believe it is right to impose his vision of what the country should be on other people. The downside is that it is very easy for those who do have an ideological objective to characterise him as being without principle.
Sure there are things I'd have rather he did differently - but in many cases I understand why he made the choices he did.
Overall an acceptable outcome given where we started. It's like a drowning man who manages to get his footing. He may be up to his neck in water, but at least he's not drowning anymore.
A Prime Minister of a Coalition government during a period of economic turmoil, not of your making, is a very different kettle of fish from say the benign inheritance and landslide administration of the Blair years.
That said aspects of Coalition policy on defence (cuts much too far) and education (my preference for a return to Grammar schools) have disappointed. Thus a solid B is a decent call.
On that issue alone he deserves an F.
There was no danger of Scotland voting for independence as you may have noted I opined on more than the odd occasion.
Of course Ed's view on EVEL has nothing to do with "party issues" whereas Cameron has only one seat to lose in Scotland.
Scotland remains in Union and Labour are on the rack north of the border. Thus constitutionally and politically it an A+ for Cameron twice over.
0 -
"according to research by Labour". Shock horror. Politicians actually visit the population! We know that kippers want Ed to be PM, you're just doing your bit for their propaganda team. Vote ukip get Ed.MikeK said:Telegraph News @TelegraphNews 9m9 minutes ago
Tory ministers accused of stealth campaigning on public purse as research reveals repeated trips to marginals http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/11380987/Tory-ministers-accused-of-stealth-campaigning-on-public-purse-as-research-reveals-repeated-trips-to-marginals.html …
Looks like Donations are not enough for Cammo and Co.
0 -
The fact you obviously don't see any issues with this post truly concerns me.isam said:
If it puts people off beheading soldiers heads in broad daylight I don't think the public would mindsaddened said:
.isam said:
To be honest, I don't really care what you thinksaddened said:isam said:
Don't put yourself down.. I accepted the half hearted politicians apology, don't worry xsaddened said:
Pitiful from start to end. It boils down to "I could but shan't so there!" Might work in a playground but not anywhere else.isam said:saddened said:isam said:
I won't ask you how uk will leave the EU again, because it's obvious you haven't got the vaguest idea.
But just in case anyone is fooled by your clumsy sleight of hand, I only think that is justified for terrorists/traitors such as the people who beheaded Lee Rigby
Sorry you had to stop to misleading smokescreens to try but fail to beat me in an argument, I will put in less effort next time
Good to see you willing to portray Adebajo et al in a sympathetic light to win an argument by the way
At least you're not giving me career advice (to be like everyone else or else) I suppose... small mercies
You won't care because you're a diamond geezer, who says what he likes and likes what he body well says. But rest assured other people will, also, find it concerning.
Portraying a man in a sympathetic light because I don't want him to be beaten with a baseball bat on a daily basis, seriously, you need to give your head a wobble.0 -
Not really.. Life of Brian aside it does my head in a bitPulpstar said:
Not a python fan >?isam said:
Cant be bothered to watchsaddened said:
The video version of that comment.isam said:The best hope of winning an EU referendum is for UKIP to have as many MP's as possible and there to be a weak minority govt which relies on UKIP votes in the commons
Telling UKIP voters to vote Cameron is not the best way
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tNfGyIW7aHM
Do as you please, I am not trying to affect your vote anyway.. I guess you'll be on my side when the Tory leader tells you to #justfollowingorders0 -
Well he is. Twickenham is on our radar for very good reasons …Pulpstar said:
Telling @JackW he's QUITE wrong is ... brave.audreyanne said:JackW said:
No.Easterross said:Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.
Total waste of effort. London Conservatives should concentrate on the marginals and not wishful thinking against a bête noir.
You're wrong Jack. Quite wrong. Very interesting situation there ...Easterross said:Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.
It's my tip for THE shock of the night. It remains an outside chance but it's definitely worth the effort being put in on the ground.
The last constituency poll, which was conducted by ICM for the LibDems last April, illustrated what we thought and there's more on the ground since. I can assure you we wouldn't be pouring in the effort if we didn't have reason to believe it's take-able. So to describe it as a 'total waste of effort' is quite wrong. It is, however, an outside chance.0 -
@Audreyanne with Uncle Vince's incumbency Twickers has pretty much no chance of going blue.
The 1-8 on the yellows there is a fair reflection of that.0 -
This is a pity since Cable is total waste of space and far too typical of all that is bad about the LD philosophy.Pulpstar said:@Audreyanne with Uncle Vince's incumbency Twickers has pretty much no chance of going blue.
The 1-8 on the yellows there is a fair reflection of that.0 -
I never said I am some kind of diamond geezer, stop making things upsaddened said:
The fact you obviously don't see any issues with this post truly concerns me.isam said:
At leastelse or else) I suppose... small merciessaddened said:
.isam said:
Sorry you had to stop to misleading smokescreens to try but fail to beat me in an argument, I will put in less effort next timesaddened said:isam said:
Don't put yourself down.. I accepted the half hearted politicians apology, don't worry xsaddened said:
Pitiful from start to end. It boils down to "I could but shan't so there!" Might work in a playground but not anywhere else.isam said:
You won't care because you're a diamond geezer, who says what he likes and likes what he body well says. But rest assured other people will, also, find it concerning.
Portraying a man in a sympathetic light because I don't want him to be beaten with a baseball bat on a daily basis, seriously, you need to give your head a wobble.
...again
I'd have them killed, more Londoners would than wouldn't according to the polls, but if that's a step too far, despite the fact we kill hundreds of innocent people when we invade or bomb countries that are none of our business, then something worse than mere imprisonment is needed.
I couldn't care less about the people who killed Lee Rigby. If they were tortured every day it wouldn't be enough
You call them "prisoners" as if I am suggesting this for all prisoners despite knowing that's not what I mean.. you do this to try and win an argument by misdirection... Why bother?0 -
Remy Cabella 13.5 £368.00 £4,600.940
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How very dare you Madam.audreyanne said:JackW said:
No.Easterross said:Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.
Total waste of effort. London Conservatives should concentrate on the marginals and not wishful thinking against a bête noir.
You're wrong Jack. Quite wrong. Very interesting situation there ...Easterross said:Is this an interesting straw in the wind?
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
…Tory push round our way not just part of their national canvassing push today. Locally, Vince the Cable is in serious difficulty.
He said they had had the 1st Tory canvassers at their door in 8 years.
It's my tip for THE shock of the night. It remains an outside chance but it's definitely worth the effort being put in on the ground.
I am correct and your blue rinse "tip", it barely deserves the accolade of tip, is utter horse doings. Vince is safe and your risible musings deserve to be gather dust with other such dribble as Iain Dale's victory musings in Norfolk North
0 -
http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/2014_twick.pdf
This poll ?
You stick the words "Vince" and "Cable" into the VI question and the picture changes completely I reckon.
The Conservatives needed to be well, well ahead on that poll to have a chance.
Labour have 76 respondents in that poll, can't see the VI but it acts as a quick sanity check to show it's a nonsense.0 -
No they didn't. That was April last year before the Green surge, Cons pick up starting and further LD slip. And Cable actually isn't that popular.Pulpstar said:http://www.icmunlimited.com/data/media/pdf/2014_twick.pdf
This poll ?
You stick the words "Vince" and "Cable" into the VI question and the picture changes completely I reckon.
The Conservatives needed to be well, well ahead on that poll to have a chance.
I'm not saying we will do it. If you recall, I tipped it as THE shock of the night. It's an outside chance, but chance it is. My issue was with JW calling it a total waste of effort. It isn't. We shall see, we shall see ...0 -
It is telling that the only defence you and AlanBrooke can mount for Cameron is that Ed could be worse. I remain throughly depressed by Cameron's approach to the whole issue. It is odd you give an A+ to SNP dominance of Scotland.JackW said:
Utter piffle.
There was no danger of Scotland voting for independence as you may have noted I opined on more than the odd occasion.
Of course Ed's view on EVEL has nothing to do with "party issues" whereas Cameron has only one seat to lose in Scotland.
Scotland remains in Union and Labour are on the rack north of the border. Thus constitutionally and politically it an A+ for Cameron twice over.
The unifying intellectual thread of Cameron's premiership is ways to get one over one Labour party. That's it. All you need to know.
You might say that is enough.0
