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About Liz Truss wanting to return to frontline politics – politicalbetting.com

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  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,061
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    An ageing population. A lot of the ambulance delays relate to inadequate social care.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9423059/ is a good summary.

    The causes of these increased waits are complex and are a symptom of pressures within the NHS and social care system. Waits for social care mean it is difficult to discharge patients from hospital, which means there is a lack of hospital beds, which means that accident and emergency (A&E) staff can’t get patients out of their department, and, ultimately, paramedics queuing outside hospitals can’t hand their patients over to A&E staff.
    I'm sorry. £188bn is more than £500m a day. And they can't even produce an ambulance? Their performance is literally killing people every day. It is time we stopped pretending that that is ok.
    It isn't OK, but healthcare (and social care) costs money... and more money as the population gets older and older. We spend less per person on healthcare than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Ireland, etc. See https://www.health.org.uk/features-and-opinion/features/how-much-does-the-uk-spend-on-health-care-compared-to-europe
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,905
    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    I remember when my Dad fell over and hit his head in his old peoples home when we visited we called an ambulance and a helpful staff member basically told me to lie and exaggerate the symptoms, ie make out he was drifting in and out of consciousness and slurring his speech, otherwise it would be hours before they turned up.

    Pride of the world, rNHS.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,846
    edited September 6
    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I would never let my child go to University in a LibDem constituency.

    Look, there are still plenty of options.

    My alma mater, the University of East Anglia, would be fine. It's a wonderful institution - well it was when I was there back in the Dark Ages.
    I could walk there from my current reclined position in about 25 minutes. Its still OK.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,061
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/the-uks-changing-population/

    The UK’s population is also ageing. In 2022, there were around 12.7 million people aged 65 or over in the UK, making up 19% of the population. [...] 50 years ago in 1972 there were around 7.5 million people aged 65 or over, or 13% of the population. [...]

    According to data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), there are currently around 33 people aged 65 or over for every 100 people aged 20 to 64 in the UK. This ratio is similar to the average for the European Union, but higher than some countries.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,905
    Nigelb said:

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I would never let my child go to University in a LibDem constituency.

    Why not?
    She'd leave a healthy, normal, well adjusted young adult. And then she'd return wearing sandals.
    Ridiculous - I've been a Lib Dem supporter most of my adult life and I've never worn sandals. That would be like saying all male Conservatives wear pinstripe suits all the time which they don't.

    It's time you emptied the cache of your political stereotypes.
    Robert is, I think (?), joshing.
    Lib Dems are quite thin skinned.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,971
    edited September 6

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9448303/ says:

    The health-care systems in the UK and Australia, already hit hard by the COVID-19 pandemic, remain overstretched. While some elements of care provision are improving (eg, waiting times for routine surgeries), others remain a source of concern. One of the most pressing issues for both systems is the increasing frequency of so-called ambulance ramping, whereby ambulances are required to queue outside overcrowded emergency departments, forced to wait before handing over patients. While this practice ensures that paramedics continue to be with the patient in event of emergency, this can mean that a single ambulance crew is occupied with just one patient for their entire shift or even longer; in some parts of the UK, waiting times of up to 23 h have been recorded. It also means that fewer ambulances are available to respond to other urgent calls, which has led to increasingly long waits for an ambulance to arrive, even for the most life-threatening emergencies. [...] in the UK, the response time for the highest-priority calls (eg, stroke or heart attack) reached a record high in August, 2022, at an average of 9 min 36 sec, exceeding the 7-min response target.

    My point is, we know what the problem is.

    We do indeed.

    My Trust put up a marquee in the carpark outside the Emergency Dept so that Ambulance waits could be eliminated, and the paramedics get to their next job. Far from perfect, but it worked.

    But we all know that the problem with ED is the back door, not the front door. We do get the odd attendance for trivial things, but they just have to wait while the serious stuff gets priority. The problem is the back door because we cannot admit to a full hospital, and the hospital is full because Social Care and Primary Care do not work as they should.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,798


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
  • stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I would never let my child go to University in a LibDem constituency.

    Look, there are still plenty of options.

    My alma mater, the University of East Anglia, would be fine. It's a wonderful institution - well it was when I was there back in the Dark Ages.
    Come to think of it, there probably aren't many of our Great Universities with Lib Dem MPs.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,905

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    An ageing population. A lot of the ambulance delays relate to inadequate social care.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9423059/ is a good summary.

    The causes of these increased waits are complex and are a symptom of pressures within the NHS and social care system. Waits for social care mean it is difficult to discharge patients from hospital, which means there is a lack of hospital beds, which means that accident and emergency (A&E) staff can’t get patients out of their department, and, ultimately, paramedics queuing outside hospitals can’t hand their patients over to A&E staff.
    I'm sorry. £188bn is more than £500m a day. And they can't even produce an ambulance? Their performance is literally killing people every day. It is time we stopped pretending that that is ok.
    It isn't OK, but healthcare (and social care) costs money... and more money as the population gets older and older. We spend less per person on healthcare than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Ireland, etc. See https://www.health.org.uk/features-and-opinion/features/how-much-does-the-uk-spend-on-health-care-compared-to-europe
    So the solution is the same solution it’s been for decades. More money. Right.

    Perhaps there comes a time when throwing money at a problem isn’t the answer and looking at what works elsewhere and learning from it is.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,297
    Foxy said:

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9448303/ says:

    The health-care systems in the UK and Australia, already hit hard by the COVID-19 pandemic, remain overstretched. While some elements of care provision are improving (eg, waiting times for routine surgeries), others remain a source of concern. One of the most pressing issues for both systems is the increasing frequency of so-called ambulance ramping, whereby ambulances are required to queue outside overcrowded emergency departments, forced to wait before handing over patients. While this practice ensures that paramedics continue to be with the patient in event of emergency, this can mean that a single ambulance crew is occupied with just one patient for their entire shift or even longer; in some parts of the UK, waiting times of up to 23 h have been recorded. It also means that fewer ambulances are available to respond to other urgent calls, which has led to increasingly long waits for an ambulance to arrive, even for the most life-threatening emergencies. [...] in the UK, the response time for the highest-priority calls (eg, stroke or heart attack) reached a record high in August, 2022, at an average of 9 min 36 sec, exceeding the 7-min response target.

    My point is, we know what the problem is.

    We do indeed.

    My Trust put up a marquee in the carpark outside the Emergency Dept so that Ambulance waits could be eliminated, and the paramedics get to their next job. Far from perfect, but it worked.

    But we all know that the problem with ED is the back door, not the front door. We do get the odd attendance for trivial things, but they just have to wait while the serious stuff gets priority. The problem is the back door because we cannot admit to a full hospital, and the hospital is full because Social Care and Primary Care do not work as they should.
    I am bemused to learn that Erectile Dysfunction is a back door and not a front door problem. Maybe I have been going about this the wrong way.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,846
    https://x.com/OpiniumResearch/status/1964430907584209019?t=2wDDEB5Tvyk8wQ6SDb867g&s=19

    Free hit for the Tories. Expect them to announce theyve disowned the policy now
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,971
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wow. I must just jaw drop wow...

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    This is frankly one of the worst things Donald Trump has ever posted, which is really saying something

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1964370370607403086

    He looks like the prison guard in Cool Hand Luke.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=greenall+whitney+cool+hand+luke+commercial#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:cd8c1547,vid:J46OAfaAu9A,st:0
    Cool Hand Luke forgive me doing a Leon but perhaps the most significant commercial of my career. I'd been asked by the agency to shoot a poster for Greenhall using the commercials location and actor. We shot in Almeria and Shepperton.The producer was Tony Scott's wife Glynnis and the first assistant was Roger Lyons.

    Two Rogers we became friends. He wanted to direct and the agency creative asked me if I'd like to give it a try. I was a fashion photographer at the time . We both went on to direct. Roger L became the hottest director in town and did Levi's Laundrette among other stuff.

    He later had a shoot in Italy and fell over a cliff and died. Tony left Glynnis and later took his own life....Back at Shepperton Ridley shot 1984 Apple with Roger L as his first assistant Reckoned to be the best commercial ever made......
    So that's how you got started, 🫡

    Number 2 son has gone into your line of work, at a small agency down in the Smoke. Mostly he is editing and fettling the videos, as befits a junior, but he is very creative and ambitious, and beginning to catch the eye of the bosses.

    Yep, them poor old bosses need all the help they can get
    Well, that is actually what he is paid to do!
    It’s a quote from Cool Hand Luke. I wondered whether you’d used ‘bosses’ as a nod to the film
    Ah, I missed that. Strangely I watched Cool Hand Luke a few weeks back too. I think it was on BBC iplayer. It's an odd film, and I don't think would be made the same way now. I haven't got round to writing a letterboxd review yet as still mulling over what I made of it.
    I’ve watched it dozens of times. The book reveals more about Luke and the reasons behind his unusual behaviour. WW2 has a lot to do with it.

    Paul Newman plays a very similar character in Hombre, another of my favourite films.

    Yes, it's really a film about post-traumatic stress disorder.

    I have seen a fair number of homeless ex-soldiers get into trouble in a very similar way.

    I don't support the poppy appeal any more, but one of my favourite charities is "Combat Stress" for their workers on soldiers with PTSD. Civilian health care systems don't understand it and the military ones don't care after discharge.

    https://combatstress.org.uk/about-us
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,150

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I would never let my child go to University in a LibDem constituency.

    Look, there are still plenty of options.

    My alma mater, the University of East Anglia, would be fine. It's a wonderful institution - well it was when I was there back in the Dark Ages.
    Come to think of it, there probably aren't many of our Great Universities with Lib Dem MPs.
    Checks employer, checks MP, posts 'Bath'.
  • Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wow. I must just jaw drop wow...

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    This is frankly one of the worst things Donald Trump has ever posted, which is really saying something

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1964370370607403086

    He looks like the prison guard in Cool Hand Luke.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=greenall+whitney+cool+hand+luke+commercial#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:cd8c1547,vid:J46OAfaAu9A,st:0
    Cool Hand Luke forgive me doing a Leon but perhaps the most significant commercial of my career. I'd been asked by the agency to shoot a poster for Greenhall using the commercials location and actor. We shot in Almeria and Shepperton.The producer was Tony Scott's wife Glynnis and the first assistant was Roger Lyons.

    Two Rogers we became friends. He wanted to direct and the agency creative asked me if I'd like to give it a try. I was a fashion photographer at the time . We both went on to direct. Roger L became the hottest director in town and did Levi's Laundrette among other stuff.

    He later had a shoot in Italy and fell over a cliff and died. Tony left Glynnis and later took his own life....Back at Shepperton Ridley shot 1984 Apple with Roger L as his first assistant Reckoned to be the best commercial ever made......
    So that's how you got started, 🫡

    Number 2 son has gone into your line of work, at a small agency down in the Smoke. Mostly he is editing and fettling the videos, as befits a junior, but he is very creative and ambitious, and beginning to catch the eye of the bosses.

    Yep, them poor old bosses need all the help they can get
    Well, that is actually what he is paid to do!
    It’s a quote from Cool Hand Luke. I wondered whether you’d used ‘bosses’ as a nod to the film
    Ah, I missed that. Strangely I watched Cool Hand Luke a few weeks back too. I think it was on BBC iplayer. It's an odd film, and I don't think would be made the same way now. I haven't got round to writing a letterboxd review yet as still mulling over what I made of it.
    I’ve watched it dozens of times. The book reveals more about Luke and the reasons behind his unusual behaviour. WW2 has a lot to do with it.

    Paul Newman plays a very similar character in Hombre, another of my favourite films.

    Yes, it's really a film about post-traumatic stress disorder.

    I have seen a fair number of homeless ex-soldiers get into trouble in a very similar way.

    I don't support the poppy appeal any more, but one of my favourite charities is "Combat Stress" for their workers on soldiers with PTSD. Civilian health care systems don't understand it and the military ones don't care after discharge.

    https://combatstress.org.uk/about-us
    Why don't you support the Poppy Appeal anymore?
  • DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    An ageing population. A lot of the ambulance delays relate to inadequate social care.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9423059/ is a good summary.

    The causes of these increased waits are complex and are a symptom of pressures within the NHS and social care system. Waits for social care mean it is difficult to discharge patients from hospital, which means there is a lack of hospital beds, which means that accident and emergency (A&E) staff can’t get patients out of their department, and, ultimately, paramedics queuing outside hospitals can’t hand their patients over to A&E staff.
    I'm sorry. £188bn is more than £500m a day. And they can't even produce an ambulance? Their performance is literally killing people every day. It is time we stopped pretending that that is ok.
    I suspect it would be cheaper to pay an adult social care worker to do a home safety assessment and if necessary get some chap with an electric screwdriver to fit a hand rail or ramp to assist mobility issues.

    But that would go against the grain of hating on Councils. Pretending that all they do is diversity.

    Our press is poison.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,061
    edited September 6
    Taz said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    An ageing population. A lot of the ambulance delays relate to inadequate social care.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9423059/ is a good summary.

    The causes of these increased waits are complex and are a symptom of pressures within the NHS and social care system. Waits for social care mean it is difficult to discharge patients from hospital, which means there is a lack of hospital beds, which means that accident and emergency (A&E) staff can’t get patients out of their department, and, ultimately, paramedics queuing outside hospitals can’t hand their patients over to A&E staff.
    I'm sorry. £188bn is more than £500m a day. And they can't even produce an ambulance? Their performance is literally killing people every day. It is time we stopped pretending that that is ok.
    It isn't OK, but healthcare (and social care) costs money... and more money as the population gets older and older. We spend less per person on healthcare than Germany, France, the Netherlands, Ireland, etc. See https://www.health.org.uk/features-and-opinion/features/how-much-does-the-uk-spend-on-health-care-compared-to-europe
    So the solution is the same solution it’s been for decades. More money. Right.

    Perhaps there comes a time when throwing money at a problem isn’t the answer and looking at what works elsewhere and learning from it is.
    Please pick from one of the below answers:

    a) It's not just about money. A key problem here is social care. Problems in social care stop people being discharged from hospital. Hospitals fill up, and that stops people being admitted to hospitals, leading to ambulances sitting waiting outside A&E. Unfortunately, Labour has delayed its review into social care. We could also spend other healthcare money better, with more on public health (hit by cuts to local council funding) and primary care.

    b) The population is ageing. Most healthcare costs are associated with old age. So, yes, more money is needed. There's no fancy way around that. What works elsehwere? What works in France, Germany, Sweden etc. is spending more money on health. We haven't been throwing money at the problem for years. We've been skimping for years.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,061
    DavidL said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    If they are still singing God save the Queen then they are even more disconnected with reality than I had appreciated.
    Well, I'm not against God protecting Camilla.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,971

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wow. I must just jaw drop wow...

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    This is frankly one of the worst things Donald Trump has ever posted, which is really saying something

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1964370370607403086

    He looks like the prison guard in Cool Hand Luke.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=greenall+whitney+cool+hand+luke+commercial#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:cd8c1547,vid:J46OAfaAu9A,st:0
    Cool Hand Luke forgive me doing a Leon but perhaps the most significant commercial of my career. I'd been asked by the agency to shoot a poster for Greenhall using the commercials location and actor. We shot in Almeria and Shepperton.The producer was Tony Scott's wife Glynnis and the first assistant was Roger Lyons.

    Two Rogers we became friends. He wanted to direct and the agency creative asked me if I'd like to give it a try. I was a fashion photographer at the time . We both went on to direct. Roger L became the hottest director in town and did Levi's Laundrette among other stuff.

    He later had a shoot in Italy and fell over a cliff and died. Tony left Glynnis and later took his own life....Back at Shepperton Ridley shot 1984 Apple with Roger L as his first assistant Reckoned to be the best commercial ever made......
    So that's how you got started, 🫡

    Number 2 son has gone into your line of work, at a small agency down in the Smoke. Mostly he is editing and fettling the videos, as befits a junior, but he is very creative and ambitious, and beginning to catch the eye of the bosses.

    Yep, them poor old bosses need all the help they can get
    Well, that is actually what he is paid to do!
    It’s a quote from Cool Hand Luke. I wondered whether you’d used ‘bosses’ as a nod to the film
    Ah, I missed that. Strangely I watched Cool Hand Luke a few weeks back too. I think it was on BBC iplayer. It's an odd film, and I don't think would be made the same way now. I haven't got round to writing a letterboxd review yet as still mulling over what I made of it.
    I’ve watched it dozens of times. The book reveals more about Luke and the reasons behind his unusual behaviour. WW2 has a lot to do with it.

    Paul Newman plays a very similar character in Hombre, another of my favourite films.

    Yes, it's really a film about post-traumatic stress disorder.

    I have seen a fair number of homeless ex-soldiers get into trouble in a very similar way.

    I don't support the poppy appeal any more, but one of my favourite charities is "Combat Stress" for their workers on soldiers with PTSD. Civilian health care systems don't understand it and the military ones don't care after discharge.

    https://combatstress.org.uk/about-us
    Why don't you support the Poppy Appeal anymore?
    I stopped in 2018 as I thought 100 years was long enough.

    I think it has degenerated into mawkish sentimentality tinged with jingoism. I do care about ex soldiers, so I support a number of disability charities aimed at them, particularly Combat Stress. I just can't stand Poppymas and it's absurdities.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,492

    This BMJ piece, https://doi.org/10.1136/bmj.o2911 , says:

    Adrian Boyle, president of the Royal College of Emergency Medicine, said on the BBC Radio 4 Today news programme on 1 December that he had not seen these kinds of delays in admission since the 1990s and that he feared it was leading to excess deaths. [...]

    Boyle said the problems were due to a combination of factors, adding, “The reason we’re seeing these awful long ambulance waits is because our emergency departments are full and our hospitals are full. Going back 20 years, we were able, as a country, to turn this around.

    “There was the political will to establish things like the four hour access target, which was a huge piece of work and took quite a long time to get going, but it emptied the corridors and actually pushed people through the system in a way that avoided all of these problems.”

    Reducing the delays relied on discharges and proper use of beds, said Boyle. “At the moment there are 13 000 people waiting in hospitals—about 10% of the bed base—who are waiting to be discharged either to home with a little bit more support or to a care facility. That’s a massive own goal. We need to reform the interface between acute hospitals and social care.”

    “Will try” is preferable to “Can’t do.”
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,297

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    An ageing population. A lot of the ambulance delays relate to inadequate social care.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9423059/ is a good summary.

    The causes of these increased waits are complex and are a symptom of pressures within the NHS and social care system. Waits for social care mean it is difficult to discharge patients from hospital, which means there is a lack of hospital beds, which means that accident and emergency (A&E) staff can’t get patients out of their department, and, ultimately, paramedics queuing outside hospitals can’t hand their patients over to A&E staff.
    I'm sorry. £188bn is more than £500m a day. And they can't even produce an ambulance? Their performance is literally killing people every day. It is time we stopped pretending that that is ok.
    I suspect it would be cheaper to pay an adult social care worker to do a home safety assessment and if necessary get some chap with an electric screwdriver to fit a hand rail or ramp to assist mobility issues.

    But that would go against the grain of hating on Councils. Pretending that all they do is diversity.

    Our press is poison.
    Hunt was right to bring social care and health into the same department but the benefits have been less than we might have hoped.

    I have mentioned this before but the hospital my daughter works at, Ninewells in Dundee, has a department who start working on the discharge of every patient when they are admitted so by the time they finish their treatment their social care package that allows them to go home is already in place preventing bed blocking. It does involve the NHS taking on responsibilities and costs that are not really theirs but the savings are so obvious that there is a stream of visitors from other Trusts looking to see how they do it.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,369

    Andy_JS said:

    And further to that if Truss ran for Reform in her SW Norfolk it would be an enormous Tory gain (Reform likely gain it as we stand)

    I think Reform would win the seat regardless of who the candidate is, and that includes Truss.
    SW Norfolk will be very hard to call. Where the 14% Bagge votes go is key. Reform should win the Thetford wards easily but the rest of the constituency is up for a close fight
    If Reform win 200-300 seats overall, SW Norfolk would be an absolute shoo-in for them.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,356
    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I would never let my child go to University in a LibDem constituency.

    Why not?
    She'd leave a healthy, normal, well adjusted young adult. And then she'd return wearing sandals.
    Ridiculous - I've been a Lib Dem supporter most of my adult life and I've never worn sandals. That would be like saying all male Conservatives wear pinstripe suits all the time which they don't.

    It's time you emptied the cache of your political stereotypes.
    @stodge

    I'm just being silly.
  • stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I would never let my child go to University in a LibDem constituency.

    Look, there are still plenty of options.

    My alma mater, the University of East Anglia, would be fine. It's a wonderful institution - well it was when I was there back in the Dark Ages.
    Come to think of it, there probably aren't many of our Great Universities with Lib Dem MPs.
    Checks employer, checks MP, posts 'Bath'.
    There's a few others (I think I've found three more), but it's pretty slim pickings.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,150
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wow. I must just jaw drop wow...

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    This is frankly one of the worst things Donald Trump has ever posted, which is really saying something

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1964370370607403086

    He looks like the prison guard in Cool Hand Luke.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=greenall+whitney+cool+hand+luke+commercial#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:cd8c1547,vid:J46OAfaAu9A,st:0
    Cool Hand Luke forgive me doing a Leon but perhaps the most significant commercial of my career. I'd been asked by the agency to shoot a poster for Greenhall using the commercials location and actor. We shot in Almeria and Shepperton.The producer was Tony Scott's wife Glynnis and the first assistant was Roger Lyons.

    Two Rogers we became friends. He wanted to direct and the agency creative asked me if I'd like to give it a try. I was a fashion photographer at the time . We both went on to direct. Roger L became the hottest director in town and did Levi's Laundrette among other stuff.

    He later had a shoot in Italy and fell over a cliff and died. Tony left Glynnis and later took his own life....Back at Shepperton Ridley shot 1984 Apple with Roger L as his first assistant Reckoned to be the best commercial ever made......
    So that's how you got started, 🫡

    Number 2 son has gone into your line of work, at a small agency down in the Smoke. Mostly he is editing and fettling the videos, as befits a junior, but he is very creative and ambitious, and beginning to catch the eye of the bosses.

    Yep, them poor old bosses need all the help they can get
    Well, that is actually what he is paid to do!
    It’s a quote from Cool Hand Luke. I wondered whether you’d used ‘bosses’ as a nod to the film
    Ah, I missed that. Strangely I watched Cool Hand Luke a few weeks back too. I think it was on BBC iplayer. It's an odd film, and I don't think would be made the same way now. I haven't got round to writing a letterboxd review yet as still mulling over what I made of it.
    I’ve watched it dozens of times. The book reveals more about Luke and the reasons behind his unusual behaviour. WW2 has a lot to do with it.

    Paul Newman plays a very similar character in Hombre, another of my favourite films.

    Yes, it's really a film about post-traumatic stress disorder.

    I have seen a fair number of homeless ex-soldiers get into trouble in a very similar way.

    I don't support the poppy appeal any more, but one of my favourite charities is "Combat Stress" for their workers on soldiers with PTSD. Civilian health care systems don't understand it and the military ones don't care after discharge.

    https://combatstress.org.uk/about-us
    Why don't you support the Poppy Appeal anymore?
    I stopped in 2018 as I thought 100 years was long enough.

    I think it has degenerated into mawkish sentimentality tinged with jingoism. I do care about ex soldiers, so I support a number of disability charities aimed at them, particularly Combat Stress. I just can't stand Poppymas and it's absurdities.
    100 years for veterans of WW1, but we still have people injured physically and/or mentally from military service, so I don't really see why you need to stop, but that's your choice. I do agree with how it's gone, driven, sadly, by the BBC and it's insane insistence that all shall wear poppies from mid Oct.
  • Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    No10 yesterday: “Rt Hon Ian Murray MP has left the Government.”

    No10 today: “Rt Hon Ian Murray MP is a minister again.”

    Seems like the internal backlash to his sacking has forced the PM to give Ian Murray 2 new jobs. Leadership.

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1964416131105542421

    It could just be a comms failure, like announcing Yvette Cooper was no longer Home Secretary.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,507
    Are the Basques fond of virtue signalling, millionaire pensioners cosplaying as refugees? ✊🏻

    We’ve been thinking about where to escape to if the nationalist right does take power in the UK. It’s looking like the Basque Country. They will never, ever take fascist shit. Ever. Even if Spain goes PP/Vox, the Basques will not and they will fight against it. Gora Euskadi ✊️

    https://bsky.app/profile/jwsidders.bsky.social/post/3ly6w3omuzk2h

  • Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    And on a Liz Truss thread!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,900
    isam said:

    Are the Basques fond of virtue signalling, millionaire pensioners cosplaying as refugees? ✊🏻

    We’ve been thinking about where to escape to if the nationalist right does take power in the UK. It’s looking like the Basque Country. They will never, ever take fascist shit. Ever. Even if Spain goes PP/Vox, the Basques will not and they will fight against it. Gora Euskadi ✊️

    https://bsky.app/profile/jwsidders.bsky.social/post/3ly6w3omuzk2h

    Bluesky is now, almost completely, ludicrous prats like him
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,884
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Personally, I would never let my child go to University in a LibDem constituency.

    Why not?
    She'd leave a healthy, normal, well adjusted young adult. And then she'd return wearing sandals.
    Ridiculous - I've been a Lib Dem supporter most of my adult life and I've never worn sandals. That would be like saying all male Conservatives wear pinstripe suits all the time which they don't.

    It's time you emptied the cache of your political stereotypes.
    @stodge

    I'm just being silly.
    Don't tell us you actually like dogs and children too ?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,225


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,846
    Andy_JS said:

    Andy_JS said:

    And further to that if Truss ran for Reform in her SW Norfolk it would be an enormous Tory gain (Reform likely gain it as we stand)

    I think Reform would win the seat regardless of who the candidate is, and that includes Truss.
    SW Norfolk will be very hard to call. Where the 14% Bagge votes go is key. Reform should win the Thetford wards easily but the rest of the constituency is up for a close fight
    If Reform win 200-300 seats overall, SW Norfolk would be an absolute shoo-in for them.
    Sorry i dont agree with that. Theyd likely win it on 300 seats overall, 200 not so much
    Ill be interested in the Norfolk council elections next year, and the mayoral which might shed a bit more light.
    Im leaning Ref gain at the moment but if, for example, the Tories hold Mid Norfolk they will probably regain SW Norfolk
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,795
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    An ageing population. A lot of the ambulance delays relate to inadequate social care.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9423059/ is a good summary.

    The causes of these increased waits are complex and are a symptom of pressures within the NHS and social care system. Waits for social care mean it is difficult to discharge patients from hospital, which means there is a lack of hospital beds, which means that accident and emergency (A&E) staff can’t get patients out of their department, and, ultimately, paramedics queuing outside hospitals can’t hand their patients over to A&E staff.
    I'm sorry. £188bn is more than £500m a day. And they can't even produce an ambulance? Their performance is literally killing people every day. It is time we stopped pretending that that is ok.
    I suspect it would be cheaper to pay an adult social care worker to do a home safety assessment and if necessary get some chap with an electric screwdriver to fit a hand rail or ramp to assist mobility issues.

    But that would go against the grain of hating on Councils. Pretending that all they do is diversity.

    Our press is poison.
    Hunt was right to bring social care and health into the same department but the benefits have been less than we might have hoped.

    I have mentioned this before but the hospital my daughter works at, Ninewells in Dundee, has a department who start working on the discharge of every patient when they are admitted so by the time they finish their treatment their social care package that allows them to go home is already in place preventing bed blocking. It does involve the NHS taking on responsibilities and costs that are not really theirs but the savings are so obvious that there is a stream of visitors from other Trusts looking to see how they do it.

    That is very interesting. Hopefully other trusts will take this up if they don't already.

    Sadly, I have far too much experience of the interface between NHS and social care through my own family's experiences.

    An issue that is not discussed enough imho is the ridiculous level of box ticking and risk aversion that hospitals display about discharge. I presume it is our litigation culture but it is nuts and government needs to sort it out.

    I have found, and it has been confirmed by others I know in similar situations, that getting someone out of hospital when there is some level of care need - EVEN IF THE NEED IS CLEARLY MET - is like getting blood out of the proverbial stone. In one situation I was involved in very directly involving a family member - six different professional disciplines had to all sign off on discharge. The ward doctor was almost a pawn in the game frankly. Everyone of these disciplines seemed to be looking for reasons to delay discharge just in case...

  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wow. I must just jaw drop wow...

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    This is frankly one of the worst things Donald Trump has ever posted, which is really saying something

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1964370370607403086

    He looks like the prison guard in Cool Hand Luke.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=greenall+whitney+cool+hand+luke+commercial#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:cd8c1547,vid:J46OAfaAu9A,st:0
    Cool Hand Luke forgive me doing a Leon but perhaps the most significant commercial of my career. I'd been asked by the agency to shoot a poster for Greenhall using the commercials location and actor. We shot in Almeria and Shepperton.The producer was Tony Scott's wife Glynnis and the first assistant was Roger Lyons.

    Two Rogers we became friends. He wanted to direct and the agency creative asked me if I'd like to give it a try. I was a fashion photographer at the time . We both went on to direct. Roger L became the hottest director in town and did Levi's Laundrette among other stuff.

    He later had a shoot in Italy and fell over a cliff and died. Tony left Glynnis and later took his own life....Back at Shepperton Ridley shot 1984 Apple with Roger L as his first assistant Reckoned to be the best commercial ever made......
    So that's how you got started, 🫡

    Number 2 son has gone into your line of work, at a small agency down in the Smoke. Mostly he is editing and fettling the videos, as befits a junior, but he is very creative and ambitious, and beginning to catch the eye of the bosses.

    Yep, them poor old bosses need all the help they can get
    Well, that is actually what he is paid to do!
    It’s a quote from Cool Hand Luke. I wondered whether you’d used ‘bosses’ as a nod to the film
    Ah, I missed that. Strangely I watched Cool Hand Luke a few weeks back too. I think it was on BBC iplayer. It's an odd film, and I don't think would be made the same way now. I haven't got round to writing a letterboxd review yet as still mulling over what I made of it.
    I’ve watched it dozens of times. The book reveals more about Luke and the reasons behind his unusual behaviour. WW2 has a lot to do with it.

    Paul Newman plays a very similar character in Hombre, another of my favourite films.

    Yes, it's really a film about post-traumatic stress disorder.

    I have seen a fair number of homeless ex-soldiers get into trouble in a very similar way.

    I don't support the poppy appeal any more, but one of my favourite charities is "Combat Stress" for their workers on soldiers with PTSD. Civilian health care systems don't understand it and the military ones don't care after discharge.

    https://combatstress.org.uk/about-us
    Why don't you support the Poppy Appeal anymore?
    I stopped in 2018 as I thought 100 years was long enough.

    I think it has degenerated into mawkish sentimentality tinged with jingoism. I do care about ex soldiers, so I support a number of disability charities aimed at them, particularly Combat Stress. I just can't stand Poppymas and it's absurdities.
    Thanks for answering. I find that illogical though. It's certainly not '100years' since the last soldiers were sent on our behalf into God knows what (Barely 10years) . They are still young and will need and deserve our support for years to come.
    Your choice.
    Combat Stress is an excellent charity but so is the RBL imo and Remembrance Sunday always strikes me as an increasingly rare opportunity for a truly collective national occasion and coming together.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,225
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Are the Basques fond of virtue signalling, millionaire pensioners cosplaying as refugees? ✊🏻

    We’ve been thinking about where to escape to if the nationalist right does take power in the UK. It’s looking like the Basque Country. They will never, ever take fascist shit. Ever. Even if Spain goes PP/Vox, the Basques will not and they will fight against it. Gora Euskadi ✊️

    https://bsky.app/profile/jwsidders.bsky.social/post/3ly6w3omuzk2h

    Bluesky is now, almost completely, ludicrous prats like him
    Where do you go these days if you want neither prattish centrist dads nor racist shitbags?
  • kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    Daley Thompson just whistled :lol:
  • isamisam Posts: 42,507
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Are the Basques fond of virtue signalling, millionaire pensioners cosplaying as refugees? ✊🏻

    We’ve been thinking about where to escape to if the nationalist right does take power in the UK. It’s looking like the Basque Country. They will never, ever take fascist shit. Ever. Even if Spain goes PP/Vox, the Basques will not and they will fight against it. Gora Euskadi ✊️

    https://bsky.app/profile/jwsidders.bsky.social/post/3ly6w3omuzk2h

    Bluesky is now, almost completely, ludicrous prats like him
    A truly fascinating individual. Equal parts Brent, Partridge and James O’Brien.
  • kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    Daley Thompson just whistled :lol:
    Apparently England fans tonight were singing - Starmer is a w....r !!!!!
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,830

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/the-uks-changing-population/

    The UK’s population is also ageing. In 2022, there were around 12.7 million people aged 65 or over in the UK, making up 19% of the population. [...] 50 years ago in 1972 there were around 7.5 million people aged 65 or over, or 13% of the population. [...]

    According to data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), there are currently around 33 people aged 65 or over for every 100 people aged 20 to 64 in the UK. This ratio is similar to the average for the European Union, but higher than some countries.

    People in their forties: net fiscal contribution +£20k per year.
    People in their nineties: net fiscal contribution -£50k per year.
    This is why we are broke.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,900
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Are the Basques fond of virtue signalling, millionaire pensioners cosplaying as refugees? ✊🏻

    We’ve been thinking about where to escape to if the nationalist right does take power in the UK. It’s looking like the Basque Country. They will never, ever take fascist shit. Ever. Even if Spain goes PP/Vox, the Basques will not and they will fight against it. Gora Euskadi ✊️

    https://bsky.app/profile/jwsidders.bsky.social/post/3ly6w3omuzk2h

    Bluesky is now, almost completely, ludicrous prats like him
    A truly fascinating individual. Equal parts Brent, Partridge and James O’Brien.
    I just read his last 40 Bluesky posts. My god

    So there really is a centrist equivalent of Graham Linehan or Lozza Fox. And it’s happened to him

    Musk’s purchase of X may, in retrospect, be one of the most significant political events of the 2020s. Yes we all
    know it allowed right wing voices new room to speak (for good and bad) but at the same time it forced centre lefties and lefties (like Southam) into a silo - Bluesky - where they’ve gone bonkers. Radicalised by Echoes, rabbitholed in mirrors
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,830
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Are the Basques fond of virtue signalling, millionaire pensioners cosplaying as refugees? ✊🏻

    We’ve been thinking about where to escape to if the nationalist right does take power in the UK. It’s looking like the Basque Country. They will never, ever take fascist shit. Ever. Even if Spain goes PP/Vox, the Basques will not and they will fight against it. Gora Euskadi ✊️

    https://bsky.app/profile/jwsidders.bsky.social/post/3ly6w3omuzk2h

    Bluesky is now, almost completely, ludicrous prats like him
    Where do you go these days if you want neither prattish centrist dads nor racist shitbags?
    Go down the pub. Spend time with friends or family. Avoid social media.
    Or come to pb.com where the racist shitbags and prattish centrist dads are in perfect balance.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,328
    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    I went to the Proclamation Ceremony in Bristol, a sound system was linked to The Cathedral, when the organist played The National Anthem, I'm certain that there was a confused crowd trying hard to adjust. Not everyone sang God Save The King.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,034
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Are the Basques fond of virtue signalling, millionaire pensioners cosplaying as refugees? ✊🏻

    We’ve been thinking about where to escape to if the nationalist right does take power in the UK. It’s looking like the Basque Country. They will never, ever take fascist shit. Ever. Even if Spain goes PP/Vox, the Basques will not and they will fight against it. Gora Euskadi ✊️

    https://bsky.app/profile/jwsidders.bsky.social/post/3ly6w3omuzk2h

    Bluesky is now, almost completely, ludicrous prats like him
    Where do you go these days if you want neither prattish centrist dads nor racist shitbags?
    Certainly not here. Although I have to concede prattish centrist dads are in the majority.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,795
    The Reform mob at conference cheered wildly when Connolly said 80% of the women in prison should be released.

    All the tories defecting to Reform are happy with this?
  • kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    I'm Freemason and we sing the national anthem at each Lodge meeting. It's also often used to mark the end of events like Carols on the highstreet etc.

    There was a facinating article in the Daily Mirror (it came up on my feed) where some poor millennial reporter went to Frinton and was appaled to find the national anthem was played at the end of some event at the local there and there was a picture of the Queen behind the bar. Poor dear couldn't wait till she got back to London to 'breathe ' again
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 20,150
    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    Big sports events usually. So international rugby for me, and cup finals etc.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,900
    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping
  • isamisam Posts: 42,507
    We can add More in Common’s Luke Tryl to the list alongside Chris Mason & Matthew Goodwin

    Reform voters look like the average Briton. Starmer does not

    The appeal of Nigel Farage’s party is broadening rapidly as Labour struggles to show it can make the changes it promised when it was elected

    If last summer, in the afterglow of Labour’s general election victory, I had told you that a little over a year later Sir Keir Starmer’s party would slip to be just three or four points ahead of the recently defeated Conservatives, you might have dismissed it as early midterm blues.

    Not ideal for the government, but not unprecedented. If then I told you Labour was two or three points ahead of the Tories, not in the battle for first but for second place — with Reform UK more than ten points clear of both — you might have started to question my psephological credentials. Yet that is the world we find ourselves in today.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/b6378957-1068-48fd-b60d-9e71e949c813?shareToken=32bed686f66734caffcdd0106e6ba026
  • isamisam Posts: 42,507
    edited September 6
    For all the hullabaloo about the grown ups being back in the room, a majority this big on such a low vote share always meant there was a lot of air in the seat numbers. Could happen again with Reform at this rate


  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,028
    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    There’s always a sense of optimism and euphoria for a party that’s soaring in the polls.

    That is, except the Lib Dems. We’ve soared in the polls too many times then fallen back to earth with a thud, so the soaring these days is usually accompanied by a sort of wry fatalism.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,795

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    An ageing population. A lot of the ambulance delays relate to inadequate social care.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9423059/ is a good summary.

    The causes of these increased waits are complex and are a symptom of pressures within the NHS and social care system. Waits for social care mean it is difficult to discharge patients from hospital, which means there is a lack of hospital beds, which means that accident and emergency (A&E) staff can’t get patients out of their department, and, ultimately, paramedics queuing outside hospitals can’t hand their patients over to A&E staff.
    I'm sorry. £188bn is more than £500m a day. And they can't even produce an ambulance? Their performance is literally killing people every day. It is time we stopped pretending that that is ok.
    I suspect it would be cheaper to pay an adult social care worker to do a home safety assessment and if necessary get some chap with an electric screwdriver to fit a hand rail or ramp to assist mobility issues.

    But that would go against the grain of hating on Councils. Pretending that all they do is diversity.

    Our press is poison.
    Hunt was right to bring social care and health into the same department but the benefits have been less than we might have hoped.

    I have mentioned this before but the hospital my daughter works at, Ninewells in Dundee, has a department who start working on the discharge of every patient when they are admitted so by the time they finish their treatment their social care package that allows them to go home is already in place preventing bed blocking. It does involve the NHS taking on responsibilities and costs that are not really theirs but the savings are so obvious that there is a stream of visitors from other Trusts looking to see how they do it.

    That is very interesting. Hopefully other trusts will take this up if they don't already.

    Sadly, I have far too much experience of the interface between NHS and social care through my own family's experiences.

    An issue that is not discussed enough imho is the ridiculous level of box ticking and risk aversion that hospitals display about discharge. I presume it is our litigation culture but it is nuts and government needs to sort it out.

    I have found, and it has been confirmed by others I know in similar situations, that getting someone out of hospital when there is some level of care need - EVEN IF THE NEED IS CLEARLY MET - is like getting blood out of the proverbial stone. In one situation I was involved in very directly involving a family member - six different professional disciplines had to all sign off on discharge. The ward doctor was almost a pawn in the game frankly. Everyone of these disciplines seemed to be looking for reasons to delay discharge just in case...

    My mother in law has severe dementia but is being cared for at home.

    Sometimes it is very hard to work out what might be wrong.

    She had a swollen wrist and was grabbing it with her other hand and screeching a lot, so we got her to the hospital for an x-ray (elective, not A&E).

    There was nothing much wrong with the wrist but they decided she had a slight infection and needed antibiotics.

    It was very late by this time and she was barely awake so was not able to swallow any.

    They therefore insisted on admitting her for an IV because they couldn't just send her home without giving her the first dose. Why the first dose mattered so much when the other 27 would have been at home anyway, I have no idea.

    It took 11 days to get her out again. 11 days where they didn't really look after her properly but couldn't let her out to a home where she had been safe for the past year. Of course, she deteriorated somewhat through being bed ridden because they couldn't risk getting her out of it.


    It is definitely risk aversion, but a perverse kind of risk aversion where the harms of being in hospital are ignored.
    This. 100x this.

    I have similar experience.

    My experience is hospital is a bloody disaster for a lot of these types of elderly patiences. They go downhill. They become more frail. they lose mobility. they get more confused. They become or get worse with incontinence. They are not looked after as well as at home with care agency staff coming in.



  • isamisam Posts: 42,507
    It gives me absolutely no, sorry I mean immense pleasure to see a graph like this. Sir Keir was always a sham. How did I manage to lose money opposing him?


  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,900
    edited September 6
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    There’s always a sense of optimism and euphoria for a party that’s soaring in the polls.

    That is, except the Lib Dems. We’ve soared in the polls too many times then fallen back to earth with a thud, so the soaring these days is usually accompanied by a sort of wry fatalism.
    Several key differences tho

    Reform are entirely new. They have a charismatic leader. Their policies are untested - or unknown. They look like they might actually win

    So the analogy does not hold, at all. Reform are sui generis in British politics
  • isamisam Posts: 42,507
    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,028
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    There’s always a sense of optimism and euphoria for a party that’s soaring in the polls.

    That is, except the Lib Dems. We’ve soared in the polls too many times then fallen back to earth with a thud, so the soaring these days is usually accompanied by a sort of wry fatalism.
    Several key differences tho

    Reform are entirely new. They have a charismatic leader. Their policies are untested - or unknown. They look like they might actually win

    So the analogy does not hold, at all. Reform are sui generis in British politics
    They’re not really new though. They’re the Farage party, which has been doing and saying the same things for 2 decades.

    Their time in the spotlight has come because the centre-left government is deeply unpopular but the centre-right opposition is even more unpopular.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,369
    edited September 6


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    What a silly tweet from Stirling. It'll probably boost Reform support if anything.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,900
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    Yes. I read it. He discovered exactly what the Guardian reporter discovered - a genuine sense of optimism allied with serious money, scale and intent. Yet also a sense it could go wrong

    For that he is labelled a “Nazi journalist”??

    There are many reasons to despise the PB centrist dad. But perhaps the most salient is their lame, feeble, cringeworthy stupidity
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,225

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    I'm Freemason and we sing the national anthem at each Lodge meeting. It's also often used to mark the end of events like Carols on the highstreet etc.

    There was a facinating article in the Daily Mirror (it came up on my feed) where some poor millennial reporter went to Frinton and was appaled to find the national anthem was played at the end of some event at the local there and there was a picture of the Queen behind the bar. Poor dear couldn't wait till she got back to London to 'breathe ' again
    I wonder what the event was. Hopefully not just the bingo.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,028
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    “Centrist” has had quite the journey. From term of abuse by very online lefties at people they consider worse than Tories, to term of abuse by very online righties at people they consider worse than communists.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,378
    edited September 6
    AI is coming for their jobs

    See 6mins in....100s of people for a 30s shot
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XXwZROjckI
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,080
    isam said:

    We can add More in Common’s Luke Tryl to the list alongside Chris Mason & Matthew Goodwin

    Reform voters look like the average Briton. Starmer does not

    The appeal of Nigel Farage’s party is broadening rapidly as Labour struggles to show it can make the changes it promised when it was elected

    If last summer, in the afterglow of Labour’s general election victory, I had told you that a little over a year later Sir Keir Starmer’s party would slip to be just three or four points ahead of the recently defeated Conservatives, you might have dismissed it as early midterm blues.

    Not ideal for the government, but not unprecedented. If then I told you Labour was two or three points ahead of the Tories, not in the battle for first but for second place — with Reform UK more than ten points clear of both — you might have started to question my psephological credentials. Yet that is the world we find ourselves in today.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/b6378957-1068-48fd-b60d-9e71e949c813?shareToken=32bed686f66734caffcdd0106e6ba026

    Although as John Curtice states on a range of issues from immigration, equal opportunities policies, and climate change measures and government spending Reform voters are some difference from the average voter.
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy853rj2kzo

    Meanwhile one of the high profile ex Reform supporters at their party conference, Joseph Afrane, is revealed as an ex Corbyn supporter
    https://x.com/The_NewReformer/status/1837885571819073875
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,225

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    Big sports events usually. So international rugby for me, and cup finals etc.
    Yes that's what springs to mind. I was at the England Scotland Euro96, the Gazza goal etc, so perhaps I mumbled it then. Probably did.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,507
    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    “Centrist” has had quite the journey. From term of abuse by very online lefties at people they consider worse than Tories, to term of abuse by very online righties at people they consider worse than communists.
    It’s no more a term of abuse than ‘leftie’ or ‘rightie’, and many people apply the label to themselves.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,900
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    There’s always a sense of optimism and euphoria for a party that’s soaring in the polls.

    That is, except the Lib Dems. We’ve soared in the polls too many times then fallen back to earth with a thud, so the soaring these days is usually accompanied by a sort of wry fatalism.
    Several key differences tho

    Reform are entirely new. They have a charismatic leader. Their policies are untested - or unknown. They look like they might actually win

    So the analogy does not hold, at all. Reform are sui generis in British politics
    They’re not really new though. They’re the Farage party, which has been doing and saying the same things for 2 decades.

    Their time in the spotlight has come because the centre-left government is deeply unpopular but the centre-right opposition is even more unpopular.
    This is a dumb take. And you’re not dumb. Do better
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,884

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    An ageing population. A lot of the ambulance delays relate to inadequate social care.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9423059/ is a good summary.

    The causes of these increased waits are complex and are a symptom of pressures within the NHS and social care system. Waits for social care mean it is difficult to discharge patients from hospital, which means there is a lack of hospital beds, which means that accident and emergency (A&E) staff can’t get patients out of their department, and, ultimately, paramedics queuing outside hospitals can’t hand their patients over to A&E staff.
    I'm sorry. £188bn is more than £500m a day. And they can't even produce an ambulance? Their performance is literally killing people every day. It is time we stopped pretending that that is ok.
    I suspect it would be cheaper to pay an adult social care worker to do a home safety assessment and if necessary get some chap with an electric screwdriver to fit a hand rail or ramp to assist mobility issues.

    But that would go against the grain of hating on Councils. Pretending that all they do is diversity.

    Our press is poison.
    Hunt was right to bring social care and health into the same department but the benefits have been less than we might have hoped.

    I have mentioned this before but the hospital my daughter works at, Ninewells in Dundee, has a department who start working on the discharge of every patient when they are admitted so by the time they finish their treatment their social care package that allows them to go home is already in place preventing bed blocking. It does involve the NHS taking on responsibilities and costs that are not really theirs but the savings are so obvious that there is a stream of visitors from other Trusts looking to see how they do it.

    That is very interesting. Hopefully other trusts will take this up if they don't already.

    Sadly, I have far too much experience of the interface between NHS and social care through my own family's experiences.

    An issue that is not discussed enough imho is the ridiculous level of box ticking and risk aversion that hospitals display about discharge. I presume it is our litigation culture but it is nuts and government needs to sort it out.

    I have found, and it has been confirmed by others I know in similar situations, that getting someone out of hospital when there is some level of care need - EVEN IF THE NEED IS CLEARLY MET - is like getting blood out of the proverbial stone. In one situation I was involved in very directly involving a family member - six different professional disciplines had to all sign off on discharge. The ward doctor was almost a pawn in the game frankly. Everyone of these disciplines seemed to be looking for reasons to delay discharge just in case...

    My mother in law has severe dementia but is being cared for at home.

    Sometimes it is very hard to work out what might be wrong.

    She had a swollen wrist and was grabbing it with her other hand and screeching a lot, so we got her to the hospital for an x-ray (elective, not A&E).

    There was nothing much wrong with the wrist but they decided she had a slight infection and needed antibiotics.

    It was very late by this time and she was barely awake so was not able to swallow any.

    They therefore insisted on admitting her for an IV because they couldn't just send her home without giving her the first dose. Why the first dose mattered so much when the other 27 would have been at home anyway, I have no idea.

    It took 11 days to get her out again. 11 days where they didn't really look after her properly but couldn't let her out to a home where she had been safe for the past year. Of course, she deteriorated somewhat through being bed ridden because they couldn't risk getting her out of it.


    It is definitely risk aversion, but a perverse kind of risk aversion where the harms of being in hospital are ignored.
    This. 100x this.

    I have similar experience.

    My experience is hospital is a bloody disaster for a lot of these types of elderly patiences. They go downhill. They become more frail. they lose mobility. they get more confused. They become or get worse with incontinence. They are not looked after as well as at home with care agency staff coming in.

    The most basic care - adequate fluids and nutrition - is, in my (completely anecdotal) experience, the worst.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,028
    isam said:

    TimS said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    “Centrist” has had quite the journey. From term of abuse by very online lefties at people they consider worse than Tories, to term of abuse by very online righties at people they consider worse than communists.
    It’s no more a term of abuse than ‘leftie’ or ‘rightie’, and many people apply the label to themselves.
    It seems to be applied on PB to everyone from socialist Labour supporters to one nation Tories. It’s become the go-to insult for anyone not fully on the Reform bandwagon.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,034
    isam said:

    We can add More in Common’s Luke Tryl to the list alongside Chris Mason & Matthew Goodwin

    Reform voters look like the average Briton. Starmer does not

    The appeal of Nigel Farage’s party is broadening rapidly as Labour struggles to show it can make the changes it promised when it was elected

    If last summer, in the afterglow of Labour’s general election victory, I had told you that a little over a year later Sir Keir Starmer’s party would slip to be just three or four points ahead of the recently defeated Conservatives, you might have dismissed it as early midterm blues.

    Not ideal for the government, but not unprecedented. If then I told you Labour was two or three points ahead of the Tories, not in the battle for first but for second place — with Reform UK more than ten points clear of both — you might have started to question my psephological credentials. Yet that is the world we find ourselves in today.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/b6378957-1068-48fd-b60d-9e71e949c813?shareToken=32bed686f66734caffcdd0106e6ba026

    Luke Tryl (although I don't see it myself) and Goodwin are perfectly entitled to promote Farage and Reform. Mason (and Kuennsberg before him) as BBC Political Editor is supposed to be scrupulously impartial.

    Balance is important, like Newsnight equalising Andrea Leadsom's expertise with that of Pascal Lamy of the WTO. Where is the balance here?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,795
    I think tomorrow is National Test the National Emergency Alert day on the phones.

    Should trigger a dozen or more conspiracy theories.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 16,028
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    There’s always a sense of optimism and euphoria for a party that’s soaring in the polls.

    That is, except the Lib Dems. We’ve soared in the polls too many times then fallen back to earth with a thud, so the soaring these days is usually accompanied by a sort of wry fatalism.
    Several key differences tho

    Reform are entirely new. They have a charismatic leader. Their policies are untested - or unknown. They look like they might actually win

    So the analogy does not hold, at all. Reform are sui generis in British politics
    They’re not really new though. They’re the Farage party, which has been doing and saying the same things for 2 decades.

    Their time in the spotlight has come because the centre-left government is deeply unpopular but the centre-right opposition is even more unpopular.
    This is a dumb take. And you’re not dumb. Do better
    I struggle to see any meaningful difference between their current policy platform and that of UKIP circa 2005, save that Brexit has already happened.

    Anti immigration, anti woke (back then it was called PC), anti environmentalist, fiscally a bit confused, somewhat sympathetic towards some foreign autocrats.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,034
    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    According to the BBC charter he is supposed to be scrupulously impartial (see Lineker, see Vorderman). He is there to report not to opine and eulogise. If he wants to do that he can join LBC, Talk TV or even GBNews.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,080

    Telegraph reporting Starmer to move asylum seekers to military barracks and 1 in 1 out with Germany

    Isn't there a fairly promising site somewhere in Northern Essex?

    How many of the shadow cabinet have constituencies in Northern Essex?
    Four in a little bunch - Holden, Patel, Cleverley and Badenoch
    3, Basildon and Billericay is not North Essex
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,369

    I think tomorrow is National Test the National Emergency Alert day on the phones.

    Should trigger a dozen or more conspiracy theories.

    Like something out of a dystopian novel.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,598
    edited September 6
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    There’s always a sense of optimism and euphoria for a party that’s soaring in the polls.

    That is, except the Lib Dems. We’ve soared in the polls too many times then fallen back to earth with a thud, so the soaring these days is usually accompanied by a sort of wry fatalism.
    Several key differences tho

    Reform are entirely new. They have a charismatic leader. Their policies are untested - or unknown. They look like they might actually win

    So the analogy does not hold, at all. Reform are sui generis in British politics
    Evening, PB.

    They look a lot to me like a cross between Silvio Berlusconi's Forza Italia financial vehicle, and Maga.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,045
    edited September 6
    I suppose the UK’s not the worst when it comes to rightwing populists. Otoh this semi-literate twat is never going to be elected a political leader of Ireland.




    https://x.com/mcgregormma11/status/1964264017783836969?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 13,846
    HYUFD said:

    Telegraph reporting Starmer to move asylum seekers to military barracks and 1 in 1 out with Germany

    Isn't there a fairly promising site somewhere in Northern Essex?

    How many of the shadow cabinet have constituencies in Northern Essex?
    Four in a little bunch - Holden, Patel, Cleverley and Badenoch
    3, Basildon and Billericay is not North Essex
    Ok ill give you that one. Baz and Ricky are indeed not Northerners
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,324
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    It makes you despair

    Llandudno RNLI inshore lifeboat was called to an injury to a lady in her 70s have fallen in a local speedboat on a trip and, whilst the speedboat came alongside the jetty, she couldn't move and the 4 person crew administered Entonox [ they are trained to do this] and with the help of the coastguards carried her to a local hotel to await ambulance

    It arrived 9 [Nine] hours later to take her to hospital !!!!!!

    That is shocking. I, and I suspect most, have already concluded that if I or my wife ever need a hip or knee replacement or rapid attention to a variety of ailments then there is little option other than to go private with the NHS being a literal and unacceptable pain. But A&E is one of the things they are supposed to be good at. £188bn in a year. WTF are they spending it on other than themselves?
    An ageing population. A lot of the ambulance delays relate to inadequate social care.

    https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9423059/ is a good summary.

    The causes of these increased waits are complex and are a symptom of pressures within the NHS and social care system. Waits for social care mean it is difficult to discharge patients from hospital, which means there is a lack of hospital beds, which means that accident and emergency (A&E) staff can’t get patients out of their department, and, ultimately, paramedics queuing outside hospitals can’t hand their patients over to A&E staff.
    I'm sorry. £188bn is more than £500m a day. And they can't even produce an ambulance? Their performance is literally killing people every day. It is time we stopped pretending that that is ok.
    I suspect it would be cheaper to pay an adult social care worker to do a home safety assessment and if necessary get some chap with an electric screwdriver to fit a hand rail or ramp to assist mobility issues.

    But that would go against the grain of hating on Councils. Pretending that all they do is diversity.

    Our press is poison.
    Hunt was right to bring social care and health into the same department but the benefits have been less than we might have hoped.

    I have mentioned this before but the hospital my daughter works at, Ninewells in Dundee, has a department who start working on the discharge of every patient when they are admitted so by the time they finish their treatment their social care package that allows them to go home is already in place preventing bed blocking. It does involve the NHS taking on responsibilities and costs that are not really theirs but the savings are so obvious that there is a stream of visitors from other Trusts looking to see how they do it.

    That is very interesting. Hopefully other trusts will take this up if they don't already.

    Sadly, I have far too much experience of the interface between NHS and social care through my own family's experiences.

    An issue that is not discussed enough imho is the ridiculous level of box ticking and risk aversion that hospitals display about discharge. I presume it is our litigation culture but it is nuts and government needs to sort it out.

    I have found, and it has been confirmed by others I know in similar situations, that getting someone out of hospital when there is some level of care need - EVEN IF THE NEED IS CLEARLY MET - is like getting blood out of the proverbial stone. In one situation I was involved in very directly involving a family member - six different professional disciplines had to all sign off on discharge. The ward doctor was almost a pawn in the game frankly. Everyone of these disciplines seemed to be looking for reasons to delay discharge just in case...

    My mother in law has severe dementia but is being cared for at home.

    Sometimes it is very hard to work out what might be wrong.

    She had a swollen wrist and was grabbing it with her other hand and screeching a lot, so we got her to the hospital for an x-ray (elective, not A&E).

    There was nothing much wrong with the wrist but they decided she had a slight infection and needed antibiotics.

    It was very late by this time and she was barely awake so was not able to swallow any.

    They therefore insisted on admitting her for an IV because they couldn't just send her home without giving her the first dose. Why the first dose mattered so much when the other 27 would have been at home anyway, I have no idea.

    It took 11 days to get her out again. 11 days where they didn't really look after her properly but couldn't let her out to a home where she had been safe for the past year. Of course, she deteriorated somewhat through being bed ridden because they couldn't risk getting her out of it.


    It is definitely risk aversion, but a perverse kind of risk aversion where the harms of being in hospital are ignored.
    This. 100x this.

    I have similar experience.

    My experience is hospital is a bloody disaster for a lot of these types of elderly patiences. They go downhill. They become more frail. they lose mobility. they get more confused. They become or get worse with incontinence. They are not looked after as well as at home with care agency staff coming in.

    The most basic care - adequate fluids and nutrition - is, in my (completely anecdotal) experience, the worst.
    I remember a friend of mine going into hospital after a heart attack. By the time I found him he was in the hospital corridor, under a blanket, on the floor, with some sort of centipede crawling over him.

    Would not recommend. A-- provider.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,225
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    You have lived a largely “safe” life. You have had a good career and lived in a country which, bar the odd uncomfortable time has not realistically been under threat in your lifetime.

    You take for granted a factor of soft nationalism that many people in most countries don’t take for granted. To a huge amount of people on the planet, whether they live in democracies or dictatorships, the state protects them. There will always be minorities who the state oppresses but your average man on the street believes that the state, their state is protecting them.

    Back to the whole lack of understanding because of the privilege of living in a very free and tolerant country. You have no cultural or direct knowledge of what it’s like to lose it so the things that attach you to that state, the UK, it’s flag and anthem are disposable.

    I live in a place that has largely the same protections but it also has people alive who lived under the Nazis, they lived in fear and it was physically and mentally awful. The national anthem and display of flags is very important culturally because there is a cultural memory of losing that.

    So you can cock a snook at it but maybe think about the fact that seemingly minor trivial and silly things like “a song” or a “bit of cloth” represent something more - they represent a country where someone from the arse end of nowhere can move through the system and get a well paid city career that allows them a comfortable late age existence where they can freely criticise the govern,ent or future government without fear of someone knocking on the door one night.

    It’s not a bad thing to have love for your country and often that’s as simple as singing a patriotic song, like pretty much every nation in the world does, often very happily. Don’t mock, it’s allowed you to exist the way you do.
    I thought this terrific privileged country which we all should be proud of was becoming such a hellhole it's understandable that a new party of racists, grifters and weirdos is 10 pts clear in polls?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,369
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    You have lived a largely “safe” life. You have had a good career and lived in a country which, bar the odd uncomfortable time has not realistically been under threat in your lifetime.

    You take for granted a factor of soft nationalism that many people in most countries don’t take for granted. To a huge amount of people on the planet, whether they live in democracies or dictatorships, the state protects them. There will always be minorities who the state oppresses but your average man on the street believes that the state, their state is protecting them.

    Back to the whole lack of understanding because of the privilege of living in a very free and tolerant country. You have no cultural or direct knowledge of what it’s like to lose it so the things that attach you to that state, the UK, it’s flag and anthem are disposable.

    I live in a place that has largely the same protections but it also has people alive who lived under the Nazis, they lived in fear and it was physically and mentally awful. The national anthem and display of flags is very important culturally because there is a cultural memory of losing that.

    So you can cock a snook at it but maybe think about the fact that seemingly minor trivial and silly things like “a song” or a “bit of cloth” represent something more - they represent a country where someone from the arse end of nowhere can move through the system and get a well paid city career that allows them a comfortable late age existence where they can freely criticise the govern,ent or future government without fear of someone knocking on the door one night.

    It’s not a bad thing to have love for your country and often that’s as simple as singing a patriotic song, like pretty much every nation in the world does, often very happily. Don’t mock, it’s allowed you to exist the way you do.
    I thought this terrific privileged country which we all should be proud of was becoming such a hellhole it's understandable that a new party of racists, grifters and weirdos is 10 pts clear in polls?
    They're not racist and not weird.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,543

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    Daley Thompson just whistled :lol:
    Apparently England fans tonight were singing - Starmer is a w....r !!!!!
    I can't see that scanning very well.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,225
    Equal low with their adoption of Lucy Connolly for me.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,209
    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    You have lived a largely “safe” life. You have had a good career and lived in a country which, bar the odd uncomfortable time has not realistically been under threat in your lifetime.

    You take for granted a factor of soft nationalism that many people in most countries don’t take for granted. To a huge amount of people on the planet, whether they live in democracies or dictatorships, the state protects them. There will always be minorities who the state oppresses but your average man on the street believes that the state, their state is protecting them.

    Back to the whole lack of understanding because of the privilege of living in a very free and tolerant country. You have no cultural or direct knowledge of what it’s like to lose it so the things that attach you to that state, the UK, it’s flag and anthem are disposable.

    I live in a place that has largely the same protections but it also has people alive who lived under the Nazis, they lived in fear and it was physically and mentally awful. The national anthem and display of flags is very important culturally because there is a cultural memory of losing that.

    So you can cock a snook at it but maybe think about the fact that seemingly minor trivial and silly things like “a song” or a “bit of cloth” represent something more - they represent a country where someone from the arse end of nowhere can move through the system and get a well paid city career that allows them a comfortable late age existence where they can freely criticise the govern,ent or future government without fear of someone knocking on the door one night.

    It’s not a bad thing to have love for your country and often that’s as simple as singing a patriotic song, like pretty much every nation in the world does, often very happily. Don’t mock, it’s allowed you to exist the way you do.
    I thought this terrific privileged country which we all should be proud of was becoming such a hellhole it's understandable that a new party of racists, grifters and weirdos is 10 pts clear in polls?
    Luckily we are allowed different political beliefs, they aren’t for me but they still aren’t remotely as horrific as many of their peers in other European countries are.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,965
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    Big sports events usually. So international rugby for me, and cup finals etc.
    Yes that's what springs to mind. I was at the England Scotland Euro96, the Gazza goal etc, so perhaps I mumbled it then. Probably did.
    Are you David Seaman?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 45,045
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    You have lived a largely “safe” life. You have had a good career and lived in a country which, bar the odd uncomfortable time has not realistically been under threat in your lifetime.

    You take for granted a factor of soft nationalism that many people in most countries don’t take for granted. To a huge amount of people on the planet, whether they live in democracies or dictatorships, the state protects them. There will always be minorities who the state oppresses but your average man on the street believes that the state, their state is protecting them.

    Back to the whole lack of understanding because of the privilege of living in a very free and tolerant country. You have no cultural or direct knowledge of what it’s like to lose it so the things that attach you to that state, the UK, it’s flag and anthem are disposable.

    I live in a place that has largely the same protections but it also has people alive who lived under the Nazis, they lived in fear and it was physically and mentally awful. The national anthem and display of flags is very important culturally because there is a cultural memory of losing that.

    So you can cock a snook at it but maybe think about the fact that seemingly minor trivial and silly things like “a song” or a “bit of cloth” represent something more - they represent a country where someone from the arse end of nowhere can move through the system and get a well paid city career that allows them a comfortable late age existence where they can freely criticise the govern,ent or future government without fear of someone knocking on the door one night.

    It’s not a bad thing to have love for your country and often that’s as simple as singing a patriotic song, like pretty much every nation in the world does, often very happily. Don’t mock, it’s allowed you to exist the way you do.
    I thought this terrific privileged country which we all should be proud of was becoming such a hellhole it's understandable that a new party of racists, grifters and weirdos is 10 pts clear in polls?
    They're not racist and not weird.
    What, none of them?
    Fair play for not attempting to claim they’re not grifters though.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,324
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    You have lived a largely “safe” life. You have had a good career and lived in a country which, bar the odd uncomfortable time has not realistically been under threat in your lifetime.

    You take for granted a factor of soft nationalism that many people in most countries don’t take for granted. To a huge amount of people on the planet, whether they live in democracies or dictatorships, the state protects them. There will always be minorities who the state oppresses but your average man on the street believes that the state, their state is protecting them.

    Back to the whole lack of understanding because of the privilege of living in a very free and tolerant country. You have no cultural or direct knowledge of what it’s like to lose it so the things that attach you to that state, the UK, it’s flag and anthem are disposable.

    I live in a place that has largely the same protections but it also has people alive who lived under the Nazis, they lived in fear and it was physically and mentally awful. The national anthem and display of flags is very important culturally because there is a cultural memory of losing that.

    So you can cock a snook at it but maybe think about the fact that seemingly minor trivial and silly things like “a song” or a “bit of cloth” represent something more - they represent a country where someone from the arse end of nowhere can move through the system and get a well paid city career that allows them a comfortable late age existence where they can freely criticise the govern,ent or future government without fear of someone knocking on the door one night.

    It’s not a bad thing to have love for your country and often that’s as simple as singing a patriotic song, like pretty much every nation in the world does, often very happily. Don’t mock, it’s allowed you to exist the way you do.
    I was kicked out of the Scouts for refusing to sing the national anthem.

    I was kicked out of the Beavers for sharing my keyring-bottle of whisky round the group.

    I also have no idea why I had - at age about six - a whisky keyring.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,153

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    According to the BBC charter he is supposed to be scrupulously impartial (see Lineker, see Vorderman). He is there to report not to opine and eulogise. If he wants to do that he can join LBC, Talk TV or even GBNews.
    If Mason had written that article about Labour after one anti-vaxxer and a convicted criminal who wanted people burnt to death had appeared at their conference he would have been accused of bias .

    The right are now coming to his aid because he wrote effectively a press release for Reform . I think we all get it , yes the people there were enthusiastic and it was a much bigger event than their previous ones .

    But to ignore what else happened today can’t be justified under any sense of impartiality.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,755
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    Yes. I read it. He discovered exactly what the Guardian reporter discovered - a genuine sense of optimism allied with serious money, scale and intent. Yet also a sense it could go wrong

    For that he is labelled a “Nazi journalist”??

    There are many reasons to despise the PB centrist dad. But perhaps the most salient is their lame, feeble, cringeworthy stupidity
    All that report on Reform is fine in itself line by line, but we've seen bits of the deeply MAGA stuff today, anti vaxx, Connolly, so to say that Farage called for "discipline" without even mentioning all that is, in itself, an act of sane washing.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 5,324
    Andy_JS said:

    I think tomorrow is National Test the National Emergency Alert day on the phones.

    Should trigger a dozen or more conspiracy theories.

    Like something out of a dystopian novel.
    If the dystopian novels people have read centre on 'somewhat annoying beeps from a phone', I have a whole big list to give that are much, much worse. Which reminds me - this is premiering soon :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FGMEOdPxpWs

    ORWELL: 2+2=5 Trailer

    "Oscar-nominated filmmaker Raoul Peck takes a deep dive into the writing of George Orwell (1984) to explore its potent relevancy to our current times."
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,034
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    You have lived a largely “safe” life. You have had a good career and lived in a country which, bar the odd uncomfortable time has not realistically been under threat in your lifetime.

    You take for granted a factor of soft nationalism that many people in most countries don’t take for granted. To a huge amount of people on the planet, whether they live in democracies or dictatorships, the state protects them. There will always be minorities who the state oppresses but your average man on the street believes that the state, their state is protecting them.

    Back to the whole lack of understanding because of the privilege of living in a very free and tolerant country. You have no cultural or direct knowledge of what it’s like to lose it so the things that attach you to that state, the UK, it’s flag and anthem are disposable.

    I live in a place that has largely the same protections but it also has people alive who lived under the Nazis, they lived in fear and it was physically and mentally awful. The national anthem and display of flags is very important culturally because there is a cultural memory of losing that.

    So you can cock a snook at it but maybe think about the fact that seemingly minor trivial and silly things like “a song” or a “bit of cloth” represent something more - they represent a country where someone from the arse end of nowhere can move through the system and get a well paid city career that allows them a comfortable late age existence where they can freely criticise the govern,ent or future government without fear of someone knocking on the door one night.

    It’s not a bad thing to have love for your country and often that’s as simple as singing a patriotic song, like pretty much every nation in the world does, often very happily. Don’t mock, it’s allowed you to exist the way you do.
    I thought this terrific privileged country which we all should be proud of was becoming such a hellhole it's understandable that a new party of racists, grifters and weirdos is 10 pts clear in polls?
    They're not racist and not weird.
    There is plenty of evidence to suggest one or two are both.

    Did I say one or two? I meant loads of them.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,986
    Foxy said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    kinabalu said:

    Wow. I must just jaw drop wow...

    Aaron Rupar
    @atrupar

    This is frankly one of the worst things Donald Trump has ever posted, which is really saying something

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1964370370607403086

    He looks like the prison guard in Cool Hand Luke.
    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=greenall+whitney+cool+hand+luke+commercial#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:cd8c1547,vid:J46OAfaAu9A,st:0
    Cool Hand Luke forgive me doing a Leon but perhaps the most significant commercial of my career. I'd been asked by the agency to shoot a poster for Greenhall using the commercials location and actor. We shot in Almeria and Shepperton.The producer was Tony Scott's wife Glynnis and the first assistant was Roger Lyons.

    Two Rogers we became friends. He wanted to direct and the agency creative asked me if I'd like to give it a try. I was a fashion photographer at the time . We both went on to direct. Roger L became the hottest director in town and did Levi's Laundrette among other stuff.

    He later had a shoot in Italy and fell over a cliff and died. Tony left Glynnis and later took his own life....Back at Shepperton Ridley shot 1984 Apple with Roger L as his first assistant Reckoned to be the best commercial ever made......
    So that's how you got started, 🫡

    Number 2 son has gone into your line of work, at a small agency down in the Smoke. Mostly he is editing and fettling the videos, as befits a junior, but he is very creative and ambitious, and beginning to catch the eye of the bosses.

    That's great news. There are many ways in and editing is one of the most popular. When he gets to know a few people and gets liked then relied on its possible to move up quite fast.There's some luck but if he's good and hard working it's possible to get anywhere. It's a very honest and straight profession and as everyon'e freelance you just have to do your job well and wait your chance. I was a stills photographer which at the time was a way in. It was a time when a lot of commercials were very styalised so well suited to stills photographers.

    Roger Lyons came from assistant directing which was rare. A few worked their way up through being crew but as many through editing. It depends where he's up to and if he's a runner who he's running for but a lot try their hand at shorts for competions. Brian Percival a friend did a short which won him a Bafta. He then got picked up by the BBC which gave him Shakespeare retold then Fellows gave him Downton . It is a great profession and if he's good enough with a bit of luck he'll work his way up. Much more concentrated than stills.In all the time I shot commercials no member of the crew was ever late wherever you had to be they'd find a way. Where's he doing his editing?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,153
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    You have lived a largely “safe” life. You have had a good career and lived in a country which, bar the odd uncomfortable time has not realistically been under threat in your lifetime.

    You take for granted a factor of soft nationalism that many people in most countries don’t take for granted. To a huge amount of people on the planet, whether they live in democracies or dictatorships, the state protects them. There will always be minorities who the state oppresses but your average man on the street believes that the state, their state is protecting them.

    Back to the whole lack of understanding because of the privilege of living in a very free and tolerant country. You have no cultural or direct knowledge of what it’s like to lose it so the things that attach you to that state, the UK, it’s flag and anthem are disposable.

    I live in a place that has largely the same protections but it also has people alive who lived under the Nazis, they lived in fear and it was physically and mentally awful. The national anthem and display of flags is very important culturally because there is a cultural memory of losing that.

    So you can cock a snook at it but maybe think about the fact that seemingly minor trivial and silly things like “a song” or a “bit of cloth” represent something more - they represent a country where someone from the arse end of nowhere can move through the system and get a well paid city career that allows them a comfortable late age existence where they can freely criticise the govern,ent or future government without fear of someone knocking on the door one night.

    It’s not a bad thing to have love for your country and often that’s as simple as singing a patriotic song, like pretty much every nation in the world does, often very happily. Don’t mock, it’s allowed you to exist the way you do.
    I thought this terrific privileged country which we all should be proud of was becoming such a hellhole it's understandable that a new party of racists, grifters and weirdos is 10 pts clear in polls?
    Luckily we are allowed different political beliefs, they aren’t for me but they still aren’t remotely as horrific as many of their peers in other European countries are.
    Give them time , they’ve only just started !
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,828

    Are the Tories ahead on Opinium yet?

    Probably leading on Hopium.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,598
    edited September 6
    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    Yes. I read it. He discovered exactly what the Guardian reporter discovered - a genuine sense of optimism allied with serious money, scale and intent. Yet also a sense it could go wrong

    For that he is labelled a “Nazi journalist”??

    There are many reasons to despise the PB centrist dad. But perhaps the most salient is their lame, feeble, cringeworthy stupidity
    All that report on Reform is fine in itself line by line, but we've seen bits of the deeply MAGA stuff today, anti vaxx, Connolly, so to say that Farage called for "discipline" without even mentioning all that is, in itself, an act of sane washing.
    The Connolly stuff is the aspect of Reform that could turn to the far-right, or the more extreme end of Maga. They are currently poised between this and Farage's personal business vanity project, with the Telegraph and GB News helpfully and partly even playing the role that Berlusconi's own TV channels used to in his popular boosterism.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,543
    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    Yes. I read it. He discovered exactly what the Guardian reporter discovered - a genuine sense of optimism allied with serious money, scale and intent. Yet also a sense it could go wrong

    For that he is labelled a “Nazi journalist”??

    There are many reasons to despise the PB centrist dad. But perhaps the most salient is their lame, feeble, cringeworthy stupidity
    All that report on Reform is fine in itself line by line, but we've seen bits of the deeply MAGA stuff today, anti vaxx, Connolly, so to say that Farage called for "discipline" without even mentioning all that is, in itself, an act of sane washing.
    The content of Lucy Connolly's interview was I thought quite interesting for the PB lefty brigade, given that she has seemingly emerged from prison thinking that half the women in the prison estate should be let out and need rehabilitation instead. She has also repeatedly refused to condemn Ricky Jones and is glad that he has avoided gaol time.

    The first opinion I think puts her somewhat at odds with Reform, given their 'Nightingale prisons' policy. It's at odds with me too - though I am interested in what Connolly has to say.

    All of which is rather discomfiting for Reform, and something our Starmer rescue squad might have enjoyed chewing over if they'd actually troubled themselves to watch the interview rather than just have fits of the vapours about it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,971

    Pro_Rata said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Leon said:

    The Guardian report on the Reform conference is fascinating

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/sep/05/such-a-vibrant-feeling-reform-uk-devotees-gather-party-conference

    It seems to be the one political place you go if you want to be optimistic and positive about Britain - and your own political future

    That’s an incredible asset and Reform own it. All the other parties are a downbeat melange of apology, protest, whining or guilt. Reform remind me of the SNP in the noughties, but in a much wider British context

    It may be the wave they surf into government. Or it may overturn them, surfboard flipping

    It seems the BBC’s Chris Mason is copping a load of flak for honestly reporting what he saw rather than what centrists want to read
    Yes. I read it. He discovered exactly what the Guardian reporter discovered - a genuine sense of optimism allied with serious money, scale and intent. Yet also a sense it could go wrong

    For that he is labelled a “Nazi journalist”??

    There are many reasons to despise the PB centrist dad. But perhaps the most salient is their lame, feeble, cringeworthy stupidity
    All that report on Reform is fine in itself line by line, but we've seen bits of the deeply MAGA stuff today, anti vaxx, Connolly, so to say that Farage called for "discipline" without even mentioning all that is, in itself, an act of sane washing.
    The content of Lucy Connolly's interview was I thought quite interesting for the PB lefty brigade, given that she has seemingly emerged from prison thinking that half the women in the prison estate should be let out and need rehabilitation instead. She has also repeatedly refused to condemn Ricky Jones and is glad that he has avoided gaol time.

    The first opinion I think puts her somewhat at odds with Reform, given their 'Nightingale prisons' policy. It's at odds with me too - though I am interested in what Connolly has to say.

    All of which is rather discomfiting for Reform, and something our Starmer rescue squad might have enjoyed chewing over if they'd actually troubled themselves to watch the interview rather than just have fits of the vapours about it.
    Yes, I think she may well be right (and at considerable odds with both Reform and Tory Parties) that we lock up far too many people that would be better dealt with via mental health and addiction programmes than prison. I think that probably true of male convicts too.

    On the other hand as she seems to think that calling for arson and murder in the middle of nationwide riots is just free speech then she may not be a very good judge of what is right or wrong conduct.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 47,225
    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:

    boulay said:

    kinabalu said:


    Oliver Stirling
    @OWS1892
    ·
    2h
    Freaks. An absolute menagerie of full-blown freaks.

    https://x.com/OWS1892/status/1964353905120117045

    At least she looked embarrassed at singing “God save the Queen”. We’ve all been there…
    This reads as if people often sing the national anthem. I'm not sure I ever have. Not that I've avoided it or anything, the scenario just hasn't arisen. Is this unusual? Do PBers have a lot of singing the national anthem in their lives?
    You have lived a largely “safe” life. You have had a good career and lived in a country which, bar the odd uncomfortable time has not realistically been under threat in your lifetime.

    You take for granted a factor of soft nationalism that many people in most countries don’t take for granted. To a huge amount of people on the planet, whether they live in democracies or dictatorships, the state protects them. There will always be minorities who the state oppresses but your average man on the street believes that the state, their state is protecting them.

    Back to the whole lack of understanding because of the privilege of living in a very free and tolerant country. You have no cultural or direct knowledge of what it’s like to lose it so the things that attach you to that state, the UK, it’s flag and anthem are disposable.

    I live in a place that has largely the same protections but it also has people alive who lived under the Nazis, they lived in fear and it was physically and mentally awful. The national anthem and display of flags is very important culturally because there is a cultural memory of losing that.

    So you can cock a snook at it but maybe think about the fact that seemingly minor trivial and silly things like “a song” or a “bit of cloth” represent something more - they represent a country where someone from the arse end of nowhere can move through the system and get a well paid city career that allows them a comfortable late age existence where they can freely criticise the govern,ent or future government without fear of someone knocking on the door one night.

    It’s not a bad thing to have love for your country and often that’s as simple as singing a patriotic song, like pretty much every nation in the world does, often very happily. Don’t mock, it’s allowed you to exist the way you do.
    I thought this terrific privileged country which we all should be proud of was becoming such a hellhole it's understandable that a new party of racists, grifters and weirdos is 10 pts clear in polls?
    Luckily we are allowed different political beliefs, they aren’t for me but they still aren’t remotely as horrific as many of their peers in other European countries are.
    But the signs are there. It's very concerning and not one iota understandable let alone justified. I'm astonished that so many feel it is. Keep saying airy stuff like "well if mainstream politicians don't deliver, what do you expect?" I mean, c'mon.
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