Skip to content

Oh, Angie, don’t you weep – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,665
edited September 5 in General
Oh, Angie, don’t you weep – politicalbetting.com

Angela Rayner has resigned as Deputy Prime Minister and Housing Secretary after a @Telegraph investigation into her tax affairshttps://t.co/xX0XVxe9Qy

Read the full story here

«13456789

Comments

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    Beth Rigby still going in to bat for Rayner.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,810
    POAWAS....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    Four men have been arrested on suspicion of plotting acts of terrorism in raids in Yorkshire, Derbyshire and the West Midlands.

    Counter Terrorism Policing North East (CTPNE) said a 33-year-old was arrested in Leeds, a 31-year-old was arrested in Huddersfield, a 34-year-old man was arrested in Derby, and a 49-year-old man was arrested in West Bromwich.

    All were arrested on Friday on suspicion of being concerned in the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism under Section 41 of the Terrorism Act 2000.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    Bye bye Angie, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.
  • ManOfGwentManOfGwent Posts: 211
    Looking forward to seeing what loon members of the labour party elect as their next deputy leader.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,798
    T'was inevitable, and she has nobody else to blame.

    Pity the poor nurse that wasn't employed because of the money she tried to get away without properly paying.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    So now how does she afford that massive mortgage on her new house?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,810
    ManOfGwent said:

    Looking forward to seeing what loon members of the labour party elect as their next deputy leader.

    Well it'll be a bun fight thats for sure.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    ManOfGwent said:

    Looking forward to seeing what loon members of the labour party elect as their next deputy leader.

    It’s gonna be one of the “Palestine” mob, isn’t it?
  • isamisam Posts: 42,480
    edited September 5
    John Rentoul

    In fact, there are just so many ways that Rayner’s tax affairs are a gift to Nigel Farage. I have seen some outlandish theories on social media about the deputy prime minister’s difficulties being manufactured by the government as a distraction from Reform’s annual conference in Birmingham today and tomorrow. On the contrary: if Farage had been allowed to write the script for the past few weeks, he would not have dared to make it so favourable to his interests.

    It is not just that Labour seems no better than the Tories in ministerial ethics, but that Labour pays a heavier price for its transgressions because it has been so sanctimonious in the past. Starmer and Rayner’s recent condemnations of Tory ministers’ tax avoidance are like the backing chorus to the news at the moment.

    If you want to know how that works, just look at Farage cutting his tax bill by having his TV fees paid into a company, and by putting the house he has bought in his Clacton constituency in his girlfriend’s name. He gets away with it because he has never been “holier than thou” about other politicians’ self-interested conduct.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/angela-rayner-resigns-tax-stamp-duty-flat-labour-b2820754.html
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,798
    Sandpit said:

    So now how does she afford that massive mortgage on her new house?

    Become the "On the Other Hand" correspondent on GB New?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,807
    MarqueeMark said:

    Sandpit said:

    So now how does she afford that massive mortgage on her new house?

    Become the "On the Other Hand" correspondent on GB New?
    "Left In The Corner" - Lee Anderson's segment.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,810
    Listening to Sky, there's still unanswered questions over what advice she took, and what that matches up with what she said.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    From the Rayner resignation letter, it sounds like the investigation found she didn't do anything deliberately wrong.

    Seems surprising she would have to go if that was it. I wonder again if the papers have more to come.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,119
    From memory - because the labour party leader is Male doesn't the deputy party leader have to be female?

    That's going to limit the options somewhat...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,807
    LOCK HER UP! :lol:
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    edited September 5
    Angela Rayner broke the ministerial code by failing to pay the correct amount of stamp duty on her seaside flat, the ethics watchdog has found.

    In his letter to the Prime Minister, Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on ministerial interests, said: “It is highly unfortunate [...] that Ms Rayner failed to pay the correct rate of SDLT on this purchase, particularly given her status and responsibilities as the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and as Deputy Prime Minister.

    “She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.”

    Sir Laurie said it was “deeply regrettable that the specific tax advice was not sought”, adding: “I believe Ms Rayner has acted with integrity and with a dedicated and exemplary commitment to public service.

    “I consider, however, that her unfortunate failure to settle her SDLT liability at the correct level, coupled with the fact that this was established only following intensive public scrutiny, leads me to advise you that, in relation to this matter, she cannot be considered to have met the “highest possible standards of proper conduct” as envisaged by the Code.

    “Accordingly, it is with deep regret that I must advise you that in these circumstances, I consider the Code to have been breached.”

    ---

    Was billy bullshitting about all this legal advice.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    eek said:

    From memory - because the labour party leader is Male doesn't the deputy party leader have to be female?

    That's going to limit the options somewhat...

    Well according to Labour a woman is anyone who wants to be, so that requirement shouldn’t be too difficult for anyone ambitious enough.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,798
    eek said:

    From memory - because the labour party leader is Male doesn't the deputy party leader have to be female?

    That's going to limit the options somewhat...

    If they can find one without a dodgy financial/CV past, that will be a start...
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,810
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    From the Rayner resignation letter, it sounds like the investigation found she didn't do anything deliberately wrong.

    Seems surprising she would have to go if that was it. I wonder again if the papers have more to come.

    That word 'deliberately' doing a lot of heavy lifting.

    The way I would interpet is she didn't take any care on the advice, and assumed she was correct on what the firm said.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,640
    eek said:

    From memory - because the labour party leader is Male doesn't the deputy party leader have to be female?

    That's going to limit the options somewhat...

    Emily Thornberry?
  • eekeek Posts: 31,119
    FPT
    Mexicanpete said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    nico67 said:

    It would be strange if the ethics report cleared her but she still resigned . Surely then it must have been critical of her behaviour.

    To resign from all roles including deputy leader would indicate the ethics advisor was very critical
    The Tories need to push on and get a criminal conviction and a custodial sentence.

    Lock her up!
    Most people wouldn't be fired for screwing up a tax issue so she's already in a worse position then the general public...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    MarqueeMark said:

    Sandpit said:

    So now how does she afford that massive mortgage on her new house?

    Become the "On the Other Hand" correspondent on GB New?
    She’s going to be everywhere by the end of the year, isn’t she? Newspaper columns, TV appearances, probably a podcast…
  • isamisam Posts: 42,480
    eek said:

    From memory - because the labour party leader is Male doesn't the deputy party leader have to be female?

    That's going to limit the options somewhat...

    Does Sir Keir know the difference yet? His opinion on what constitutes a man and a woman changes depending on what other people tell him
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    edited September 5
    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,750
    eek said:

    From memory - because the labour party leader is Male doesn't the deputy party leader have to be female?

    That's going to limit the options somewhat...

    Unless it is new, I don't think the 2020 elections applied anything like that.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,810
    The investigation is extremely kind on Raynor.

    She basically didn't take any real advice, contra to her claims, maybe she assumed she did, but didn't. She didn;t take tax advice-End of.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    edited September 5
    Wider reshuffle has began. But Rachel from Accounts is definitely staying in place.

    Relaunch #24353454.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    Slackbladder said:

    The investigation is extremely kind on Raynor.

    She basically didn't take any real advice, contra to her claims, maybe she assumed she did, but didn't. She didn;t take tax advice-End of.

    The report is saying that she was only negligent, rather than actively engaging in tax evasion.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,957
    Are we looking at a possible by-election? Or is it at 'ok for an MP but not a minister' level?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    edited September 5
    MarqueeMark said:

    Rayner was aways the embodiment of gobby Lefty entitlement.

    The sympathy well is bone dry.

    Her resignation letter embodied that. One paragraph saying I am having to resign, 27 going on about her usual talking points.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,622
    Not a very subtle pun, Doctor !
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,858
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    From the Rayner resignation letter, it sounds like the investigation found she didn't do anything deliberately wrong.

    Seems surprising she would have to go if that was it. I wonder again if the papers have more to come.

    Sky has produced the Ethics Advisors report which explains everything
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    edited September 5
    Cookie said:

    Are we looking at a possible by-election? Or is it at 'ok for an MP but not a minister' level?

    I’m sure a fair few of her constituents would be interested in recalling her, for moving 200 miles away from them irrespective of the details of the property transaction.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,854
    Slackbladder said:

    The investigation is extremely kind on Raynor.

    She basically didn't take any real advice, contra to her claims, maybe she assumed she did, but didn't. She didn;t take tax advice-End of.

    It's yet another case of "it's the cover-up that gets you." Although in this case, the cover was a sheet of tissue paper rather then six feet of concrete.

    If she had been open and honest when this story broke, she might well still be in position.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,061
    After Rayner's resignation. Starmer is likely secure until the next GE as PM and Labour leader. She was the most popular alternative to him in polls of Labour members
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,750
    Cookie said:

    Are we looking at a possible by-election? Or is it at 'ok for an MP but not a minister' level?

    I think "her personal choice" will apply.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    Kemi going two footed with a response video. Never sure these things are a good look. Let somebody else do the shin kicking.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,919
    nico67 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Angela Rayner broke the ministerial code by failing to pay the correct amount of stamp duty on her seaside flat, the ethics watchdog has found.

    In his letter to the Prime Minister, Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on ministerial interests, said: “It is highly unfortunate [...] that Ms Rayner failed to pay the correct rate of SDLT on this purchase, particularly given her status and responsibilities as the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and as Deputy Prime Minister.

    “She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.”

    Sir Laurie said it was “deeply regrettable that the specific tax advice was not sought”, adding: “I believe Ms Rayner has acted with integrity and with a dedicated and exemplary commitment to public service.

    “I consider, however, that her unfortunate failure to settle her SDLT liability at the correct level, coupled with the fact that this was established only following intensive public scrutiny, leads me to advise you that, in relation to this matter, she cannot be considered to have met the “highest possible standards of proper conduct” as envisaged by the Code.

    “Accordingly, it is with deep regret that I must advise you that in these circumstances, I consider the Code to have been breached.”

    That report seems very fair but given her role in government she should have made every effort to ensure she was paying the right amount of tax . It seems she was warned to take more advice and ignored that .
    I think that refers to the standard warning on the conveyancer’s forms: most people would (rightly) regard that as the usual lawyerly backside-covering and just get on with filling in the form to the best of their knowledge. Raynor should have realised that her circumstances demanded professional advice.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,132
    It’s funny how one line ends a career .

    If the tax advice had not had that caveat re seeking further advice she’d likely still be in post as that’s the issue which meant she broke the ministerial code .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,622
    eek said:

    From memory - because the labour party leader is Male doesn't the deputy party leader have to be female?

    That's going to limit the options somewhat...

    Good job they have the Lab MPs (186) to choose from, not the Cons (29).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,334
    Imagine having your career cut short by stamp duty.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    edited September 5
    Phil said:

    nico67 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Angela Rayner broke the ministerial code by failing to pay the correct amount of stamp duty on her seaside flat, the ethics watchdog has found.

    In his letter to the Prime Minister, Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on ministerial interests, said: “It is highly unfortunate [...] that Ms Rayner failed to pay the correct rate of SDLT on this purchase, particularly given her status and responsibilities as the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and as Deputy Prime Minister.

    “She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.”

    Sir Laurie said it was “deeply regrettable that the specific tax advice was not sought”, adding: “I believe Ms Rayner has acted with integrity and with a dedicated and exemplary commitment to public service.

    “I consider, however, that her unfortunate failure to settle her SDLT liability at the correct level, coupled with the fact that this was established only following intensive public scrutiny, leads me to advise you that, in relation to this matter, she cannot be considered to have met the “highest possible standards of proper conduct” as envisaged by the Code.

    “Accordingly, it is with deep regret that I must advise you that in these circumstances, I consider the Code to have been breached.”

    That report seems very fair but given her role in government she should have made every effort to ensure she was paying the right amount of tax . It seems she was warned to take more advice and ignored that .
    I think that refers to the standard warning on the conveyancer’s forms: most people would (rightly) regard that as the usual lawyerly backside-covering and just get on with filling in the form to the best of their knowledge. Raynor should have realised that her circumstances demanded professional advice.
    She claimed she took advice from 3 different legal advisers. It appears that was a lie. There are two other law firms she has used in the past, both yesterday said there were never approached about consulting on this matter. The media hasn't been able to find anybody else and clearly Rayner wasn't able to present any further evidence and the Sir Laurie is only talking about the conveyancer.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 886
    The important thing is the deputy leader market, when do we see that
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,205
    The good news for her constituents is that, now she doesn’t have governmental responsibilities keeping her in London, she will be spending more time at home in her constituency dealing with their issues. Not somewhere else miles away further south at all.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,132
    Phil said:

    nico67 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Angela Rayner broke the ministerial code by failing to pay the correct amount of stamp duty on her seaside flat, the ethics watchdog has found.

    In his letter to the Prime Minister, Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on ministerial interests, said: “It is highly unfortunate [...] that Ms Rayner failed to pay the correct rate of SDLT on this purchase, particularly given her status and responsibilities as the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and as Deputy Prime Minister.

    “She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.”

    Sir Laurie said it was “deeply regrettable that the specific tax advice was not sought”, adding: “I believe Ms Rayner has acted with integrity and with a dedicated and exemplary commitment to public service.

    “I consider, however, that her unfortunate failure to settle her SDLT liability at the correct level, coupled with the fact that this was established only following intensive public scrutiny, leads me to advise you that, in relation to this matter, she cannot be considered to have met the “highest possible standards of proper conduct” as envisaged by the Code.

    “Accordingly, it is with deep regret that I must advise you that in these circumstances, I consider the Code to have been breached.”

    That report seems very fair but given her role in government she should have made every effort to ensure she was paying the right amount of tax . It seems she was warned to take more advice and ignored that .
    I think that refers to the standard warning on the conveyancer’s forms: most people would (rightly) regard that as the usual lawyerly backside-covering and just get on with filling in the form to the best of their knowledge. Raynor should have realised that her circumstances demanded professional advice.
    I have been a huge fan of Rayner but I’m just gobsmacked at why she didn’t go above and beyond to ensure there wouldn’t be a problem down the line .
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,858
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    Sky News really are running a massive defence of Rayner.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,141
    . Hoisted by her own petard.. Good riddance.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bye bye Angie, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

    What a horrible comment.
    People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones....
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,854
    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bye bye Angie, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

    What a horrible comment.
    It's not a nice comment, but Rayner has made many not-nice comments about opponents who have found themselves in difficulties.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    edited September 5
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?
    As I have said previously, there are some many pieces to the jigsaw in order to stand up the story, the number of people who would know all the details is very small.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,798
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Angela Rayner broke the ministerial code by failing to pay the correct amount of stamp duty on her seaside flat, the ethics watchdog has found.

    In his letter to the Prime Minister, Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on ministerial interests, said: “It is highly unfortunate [...] that Ms Rayner failed to pay the correct rate of SDLT on this purchase, particularly given her status and responsibilities as the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and as Deputy Prime Minister.

    “She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.”

    Sir Laurie said it was “deeply regrettable that the specific tax advice was not sought”, adding: “I believe Ms Rayner has acted with integrity and with a dedicated and exemplary commitment to public service.

    “I consider, however, that her unfortunate failure to settle her SDLT liability at the correct level, coupled with the fact that this was established only following intensive public scrutiny, leads me to advise you that, in relation to this matter, she cannot be considered to have met the “highest possible standards of proper conduct” as envisaged by the Code.

    “Accordingly, it is with deep regret that I must advise you that in these circumstances, I consider the Code to have been breached.”

    ---

    Was billy bullshitting about all this legal advice.


    One thing.


    WTF is with the "with deep regret"?


    You have a role. In that role, you found she was banged to rights. Enough with your deep regret that you had to end her career. She did that herself.

    "Have the jury reached a verdict upon which you are all agreed?"

    "With deep regret, we have...."

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,840
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Rayner was aways the embodiment of gobby Lefty entitlement.

    The sympathy well is bone dry.

    Her resignation letter embodied that. One paragraph saying I am having to resign, 27 going on about her usual talking points.
    Just the standard resignation letter, then, which embodies nothing more than the usual political platitudes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 34,013
    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bye bye Angie, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

    What a horrible comment.
    I think you need to let the PB Tories have their fun.

    They are enjoying their day- leave them alone.

    I did say she should have walked on Wednesday.

    By the way we are not allowed whataboutery regarding the PPE fast lane cf Rayner stamp duty failure.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 264
    boulay said:

    The good news for her constituents is that, now she doesn’t have governmental responsibilities keeping her in London, she will be spending more time at home in her constituency dealing with their issues. Not somewhere else miles away further south at all.

    Hahahaha! Of course!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,727
    Sandpit said:

    So now how does she afford that massive mortgage on her new house?

    The same way that Mandelson afforded a mortgage that was 11x his ministerial salary. Some might say that the bank took the view that such a loan was actually an investment. But I couldn't possibly comment.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,750
    boulay said:

    The good news for her constituents is that, now she doesn’t have governmental responsibilities keeping her in London, she will be spending more time at home in her constituency dealing with their issues. Not somewhere else miles away further south at all.

    The future's Brighton, not Prince of Orange

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/aJd66WUWXZSgoZkw7
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,641
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?
    Yup big scalp for the Telegraph. Last night's exclusive statement from the conveyancing firm was when it was all over.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 7,141
    Incidentally. There is no reason why there needs to be Deputy PM.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 264
    nico67 said:

    Phil said:

    nico67 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Angela Rayner broke the ministerial code by failing to pay the correct amount of stamp duty on her seaside flat, the ethics watchdog has found.

    In his letter to the Prime Minister, Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on ministerial interests, said: “It is highly unfortunate [...] that Ms Rayner failed to pay the correct rate of SDLT on this purchase, particularly given her status and responsibilities as the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and as Deputy Prime Minister.

    “She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.”

    Sir Laurie said it was “deeply regrettable that the specific tax advice was not sought”, adding: “I believe Ms Rayner has acted with integrity and with a dedicated and exemplary commitment to public service.

    “I consider, however, that her unfortunate failure to settle her SDLT liability at the correct level, coupled with the fact that this was established only following intensive public scrutiny, leads me to advise you that, in relation to this matter, she cannot be considered to have met the “highest possible standards of proper conduct” as envisaged by the Code.

    “Accordingly, it is with deep regret that I must advise you that in these circumstances, I consider the Code to have been breached.”

    That report seems very fair but given her role in government she should have made every effort to ensure she was paying the right amount of tax . It seems she was warned to take more advice and ignored that .
    I think that refers to the standard warning on the conveyancer’s forms: most people would (rightly) regard that as the usual lawyerly backside-covering and just get on with filling in the form to the best of their knowledge. Raynor should have realised that her circumstances demanded professional advice.
    I have been a huge fan of Rayner but I’m just gobsmacked at why she didn’t go above and beyond to ensure there wouldn’t be a problem down the line .
    Too busy with her snout in the trough.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,334
    edited September 5
    squareroot2 said:

    Incidentally. There is no reason why there needs to be Deputy PM.

    Maggie never had one IIRC.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,608
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    Lawyers keep records/paper trails.
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,093
    Ginger Granny on Strictly soon
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,727
    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bye bye Angie, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

    What a horrible comment.
    When you build a career on insulting other people for taking certain actions and then take the same actions yourself....

    Remember the old line about being nice on the way up. Because you will be seeing the same people on the way down, at some point.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,597
    Jaguar Land Rover staff to stay at home in cyber attack fallout
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jzl1lw4y1o
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,972
    Duchess of Kent dies at 92:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy5v4lgkqpo
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,854
    In other news:

    "Putin rejects Western security in Ukraine, warning troops would be target"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxwl15w2qko
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,093
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?
    This is quite an achievement for the Telegraph. Bizarre that the deputy pm has fallen in scandal and the LOTO cannot claim a jot of the credit
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 16,027
    MarqueeMark said:

    T'was inevitable, and she has nobody else to blame.

    Pity the poor nurse that wasn't employed because of the money she tried to get away without properly paying.

    You'd get about 9 months of the most junior nurse for that money. Not convinced that's a very good attack line.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 6,132
    Malmesbury said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bye bye Angie, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

    What a horrible comment.
    When you build a career on insulting other people for taking certain actions and then take the same actions yourself....

    Remember the old line about being nice on the way up. Because you will be seeing the same people on the way down, at some point.
    Even if Rayner had been all warm and cuddly to previous Tories in similar situations they’d still be calling for her to resign .
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,324
    There will be a great deal of sympathy for her from Labour supporters and others, including me.
    Her political career is not over. She'll be back. Six months?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,061
    JosiasJessop said:

    In other news:

    "Putin rejects Western security in Ukraine, warning troops would be target"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czxwl15w2qko

    Given he has also rejected a ceasefire, there will be no ceasefire lines for them to enforce anytime soon anyway
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,641
    nico67 said:

    Phil said:

    nico67 said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Angela Rayner broke the ministerial code by failing to pay the correct amount of stamp duty on her seaside flat, the ethics watchdog has found.

    In his letter to the Prime Minister, Sir Laurie Magnus, the independent adviser on ministerial interests, said: “It is highly unfortunate [...] that Ms Rayner failed to pay the correct rate of SDLT on this purchase, particularly given her status and responsibilities as the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government and as Deputy Prime Minister.

    “She believed that she relied on the legal advice she had received, but unfortunately did not heed the caution contained within it, which acknowledged that it did not constitute expert tax advice and which suggested that expert advice be sought.”

    Sir Laurie said it was “deeply regrettable that the specific tax advice was not sought”, adding: “I believe Ms Rayner has acted with integrity and with a dedicated and exemplary commitment to public service.

    “I consider, however, that her unfortunate failure to settle her SDLT liability at the correct level, coupled with the fact that this was established only following intensive public scrutiny, leads me to advise you that, in relation to this matter, she cannot be considered to have met the “highest possible standards of proper conduct” as envisaged by the Code.

    “Accordingly, it is with deep regret that I must advise you that in these circumstances, I consider the Code to have been breached.”

    That report seems very fair but given her role in government she should have made every effort to ensure she was paying the right amount of tax . It seems she was warned to take more advice and ignored that .
    I think that refers to the standard warning on the conveyancer’s forms: most people would (rightly) regard that as the usual lawyerly backside-covering and just get on with filling in the form to the best of their knowledge. Raynor should have realised that her circumstances demanded professional advice.
    I have been a huge fan of Rayner but I’m just gobsmacked at why she didn’t go above and beyond to ensure there wouldn’t be a problem down the line .
    Would she have been able to afford the new flat with an extra £40k tax bill? It may have been convenient not to seek out additional advice.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Kemi going two footed with a response video. Never sure these things are a good look. Let somebody else do the shin kicking.

    True, but she’s been on the other end of a belligerent Mrs Rayner more than enough times before.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 130,061
    carnforth said:

    Duchess of Kent dies at 92:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy5v4lgkqpo

    RIP a caring woman despite some mental health battles
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,840
    JosiasJessop said:

    Slackbladder said:

    The investigation is extremely kind on Raynor.

    She basically didn't take any real advice, contra to her claims, maybe she assumed she did, but didn't. She didn;t take tax advice-End of.

    It's yet another case of "it's the cover-up that gets you." Although in this case, the cover was a sheet of tissue paper rather then six feet of concrete.

    If she had been open and honest when this story broke, she might well still be in position.
    She might.
    But the fact of the matter is that she was negligent, and compounded that by trying to pass off her own mistakes on others.

    Neither of those things are ideal qualities in a minister.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,727
    TheScreamingEagles said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    Lawyers keep records/paper trails.
    Indeed. The lesson from this is to employ a single firm, competent across the domains (trusts, tax etc) that you need. Get their advice. Then get them to implement it. That way there is no you said/i said ambiguity and you are definitely covered by their indemnities.

    If she had done that, she could have asked the lawyers to issue a statement on both their behalf *and hers*. On the same side....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,858
    MaxPB said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?
    Yup big scalp for the Telegraph. Last night's exclusive statement from the conveyancing firm was when it was all over.
    I did post their statement on here and said I leave it there

    It was obviously a devastating response but the conveyancers were quite rightly defending their position
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 14,407
    If she is admitting guilt, and proved guilty by the investigation, Rayner cannot possibly stay as an MP.
    Fraudsters and criminals cannot be legislators.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    edited September 5
    Stocky said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Rayner was aways the embodiment of gobby Lefty entitlement.

    The sympathy well is bone dry.

    I've been away so catching up on this story.

    I think I disagree on both of your counts.

    The conveyancing solicitor pays the stamp duty land tax as part of their tallying-up process. Most people would not doubt or check that the tax stated by the solicitor is correct. Raynor, remember, is a dim Labour MP who is, like the rest, numerically 'uninterested'. I very much doubt she knows much about tax rates in general. I doubt, therefore, that this was deliberate.

    She no doubt sold her remaining stake in the existing house to her child's trust so that the new property would be the only property she would own, meaning the penalty second home tax rate would not apply. I can understand this. When the error came to light she immediately offered to pay the extra to HMRC.

    So, as much as I dislike her, and think her unfit for office, I DO have sympathy over this issue and do not see it to be serious enough for her to go.
    Try claiming to HMRC that you have taken advice from 2 other legal firms on this matter and they say it is all above board and when you are asked for the proof you can't provide it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,952
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Kemi going two footed with a response video. Never sure these things are a good look. Let somebody else do the shin kicking.

    Not wise. There are a lot of second home owners in her party.

    I don't think that Rayner will be the only one exposed.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,840
    Mexicanpete said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bye bye Angie, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

    What a horrible comment.
    I think you need to let the PB Tories have their fun.

    They are enjoying their day- leave them alone.

    I did say she should have walked on Wednesday.

    By the way we are not allowed whataboutery regarding the PPE fast lane cf Rayner stamp duty failure.
    The fact that whatever offence this was might pale in comparison with some of the shit perpetrated by the last lot, really isn't a compelling argument in her favour, though.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,919
    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    MaxPB said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?
    Yup big scalp for the Telegraph. Last night's exclusive statement from the conveyancing firm was when it was all over.
    I did post their statement on here and said I leave it there

    It was obviously a devastating response but the conveyancers were quite rightly defending their position
    Raynor also claimed to have consulted two different trust lawyers, as well as her conveyancers. I presume those consultations turned out to be imaginary, or at the very least wildly insufficient to protect her from any liability.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,727
    nico67 said:

    Malmesbury said:

    Roger said:

    Sandpit said:

    Bye bye Angie, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.

    What a horrible comment.
    When you build a career on insulting other people for taking certain actions and then take the same actions yourself....

    Remember the old line about being nice on the way up. Because you will be seeing the same people on the way down, at some point.
    Even if Rayner had been all warm and cuddly to previous Tories in similar situations they’d still be calling for her to resign .
    Maybe. But her repeated attacks on others for optimising tax (let alone plain not paying) left her no room to manoeuvre.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,495
    MarqueeMark said:

    Rayner was aways the embodiment of gobby Lefty entitlement.

    The sympathy well is bone dry.

    She virtually built her career on shooting her mouth off about the conduct of others, now it has rebounded and bitten her on the arse. If you are going to put the boot in on a regular basis you had better be damn sure that your own affairs are in proper order.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,840
    bondegezou said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    T'was inevitable, and she has nobody else to blame.

    Pity the poor nurse that wasn't employed because of the money she tried to get away without properly paying.

    You'd get about 9 months of the most junior nurse for that money. Not convinced that's a very good attack line.
    It's a pretty small sum to Mone about.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 7,205
    Nigelb said:

    JosiasJessop said:

    Slackbladder said:

    The investigation is extremely kind on Raynor.

    She basically didn't take any real advice, contra to her claims, maybe she assumed she did, but didn't. She didn;t take tax advice-End of.

    It's yet another case of "it's the cover-up that gets you." Although in this case, the cover was a sheet of tissue paper rather then six feet of concrete.

    If she had been open and honest when this story broke, she might well still be in position.
    She might.
    But the fact of the matter is that she was negligent, and compounded that by trying to pass off her own mistakes on others.

    Neither of those things are ideal qualities in a minister.
    Yes, one of the problems we have is too many senior politicians lacking attention to detail. If, when you are acting in your private life on the biggest transaction you will likely undertake which involves borrowing money and paying taxes as well as involving legal activities you cannot be arsed to check and triple check the info and what you are signing then how can you be trusted to have any rigour in reading briefs and making decisions as a minister.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,248
    Cookie said:

    Are we looking at a possible by-election? Or is it at 'ok for an MP but not a minister' level?

    As much as I would like to see a Code for MP Ethics, it seems we can only rely on serious criminal behaviour or egregious financial miscounduct to get rid of the bad apples.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,810
    edited September 5
    Phil said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    MaxPB said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?
    Yup big scalp for the Telegraph. Last night's exclusive statement from the conveyancing firm was when it was all over.
    I did post their statement on here and said I leave it there

    It was obviously a devastating response but the conveyancers were quite rightly defending their position
    Raynor also claimed to have consulted two different trust lawyers, as well as her conveyancers. I presume those consultations turned out to be imaginary, or at the very least wildly insufficient to protect her from any liability.
    It’ll be that the Trust lawyers knew nothing about a new property purchase, and the conveyancers knew nothing about the Trust. The only person with the whole picture was Rayner herself.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,334
    Cookie said:

    Are we looking at a possible by-election? Or is it at 'ok for an MP but not a minister' level?

    No, it would be a gift to Farage.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 87,348
    edited September 5
    Phil said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    MaxPB said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?
    Yup big scalp for the Telegraph. Last night's exclusive statement from the conveyancing firm was when it was all over.
    I did post their statement on here and said I leave it there

    It was obviously a devastating response but the conveyancers were quite rightly defending their position
    Raynor also claimed to have consulted two different trust lawyers, as well as her conveyancers. I presume those consultations turned out to be imaginary, or at the very least wildly insufficient to protect her from any liability.
    I think it is clear she was being dishonest. Two other firms have admitted they have worked with her in the past over her trust and sale her stake in the Ashton house. Both were very clear they were not asked or provided any legal advice on this new property purchase / taxes due.

    Again, I come back to the point who knew the overall picture as it seems lots of people were in the dark.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,597
    moonshine said:

    Big_G_NorthWales said:

    FrancisUrquhart said:

    Pulpstar said:

    I think the nail in the coffin was the statement from her conveyancers after she tried to throw them under the bus.

    I wonder if she had kept strum she might have got away with it. Instead she came out throwing everybody else under the bus, claiming was them lawyers fault.

    I am sure TSE will tell us, "You come at the king lawyers, you best not miss."
    It will annoy many on here, but the Telegraph were at the forefront of the investigations and the only unknown is who was doing the leaking to them ?
    This is quite an achievement for the Telegraph. Bizarre that the deputy pm has fallen in scandal and the LOTO cannot claim a jot of the credit
    Chalk up another miss for Kemi's PMQs team.
Sign In or Register to comment.

© Vanilla Keystone Theme 2025