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Voters don’t like Farage’s Taliban tax – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,648
edited August 28 in General
Voters don’t like Farage’s Taliban tax – politicalbetting.com

With Reform UK saying it would be reasonable to pay the Taliban to return migrants to Afghanistan, how many Britons this would be acceptable?Acceptable: 17%Unacceptable: 61%% acceptable by partyReform: 35%Con: 23%Lab/Lib Dem: 7-13%yougov.co.uk/topics/polit…

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  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    edited August 28
    I wonder if this will make Farage reluctant to announce detailed policies before the election.

    Given his policies are pretty off the wall, and appear to be based on a mixture of naivety and ignorance, that would probably be to his advantage.

    I can't understand why he departed from that. His whole career has been essentially babbling pub bore level nonsense and letting people fill in the gaps themselves. And he's been very successful with it.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,848
    If their opponents were to push a line about Reform paying the Taliban to “welcome” female refugees they might make some headway with half the population.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,848
    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
  • eekeek Posts: 31,049
    FPT
    Nigelb said:

    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Worst of the worst..

    https://x.com/whstancil/status/1960694652828299358
    So this woman is brought to the US when she's eight years old, becomes a scholarship university student to become a nurse... and is then seized by ICE, and kept in harsh captivity for six months - which wouldn't happen to most actual criminals.

    Why do this? Who was she hurting

    If she had no right to be in the US then she’s liable for deportation. It’s a political decision whether to show clemency or not, but the US elected a president determined not to.
    "The worst of the worst" - a direct quote - is whom he was elected to deport. As he's constantly repeated, before and after his election.
    We are into personal Brexit issues here - the worst of the worst for many people would be violent criminals. For Trump it's a coloured women going about her job helping others...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,900
    Stuartinromford said:

    So, which is the more toxic word in "Taliban tax"?

    Make it Taliban inheritance tax and you’re setting the dial to 11
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,419
    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,848
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    How would you have phrased the question?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
    But I bet that's not the sole reason everyone's talking about it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,729
    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
    It looks like they will flounder this season.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,229
    I see that Don't know is still looking an excellent name for Corbyn's new party.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,568
    ydoethur said:

    I wonder if this will make Farage reluctant to announce detailed policies before the election.

    Given his policies are pretty off the wall, and appear to be based on a mixture of naivety and ignorance, that would probably be to his advantage.

    I can't understand why he departed from that. His whole career has been essentially babbling pub bore level nonsense and letting people fill in the gaps themselves. And he's been very successful with it.

    At some point you have to govern. At some point you have to start colouring in the empty spaces.

    Mind you, Starmer & Co. haven’t got to that stage. They are content to be junior management in the ship of state.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Worst of the worst..

    https://x.com/whstancil/status/1960694652828299358
    So this woman is brought to the US when she's eight years old, becomes a scholarship university student to become a nurse... and is then seized by ICE, and kept in harsh captivity for six months - which wouldn't happen to most actual criminals.

    Why do this? Who was she hurting

    If she had no right to be in the US then she’s liable for deportation. It’s a political decision whether to show clemency or not, but the US elected a president determined not to.
    "The worst of the worst" - a direct quote - is whom he was elected to deport. As he's constantly repeated, before and after his election.
    We are into personal Brexit issues here - the worst of the worst for many people would be violent criminals. For Trump it's a coloured women going about her job helping others...
    I wouldn't describe Trump as especially violent. He incites it, which is a bit different.

    Oh, sorry, was he not the criminal you had in mind?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,729
    A policy so contemptible that barely a third of their own supporters endorse it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    Malmesbury said:

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder if this will make Farage reluctant to announce detailed policies before the election.

    Given his policies are pretty off the wall, and appear to be based on a mixture of naivety and ignorance, that would probably be to his advantage.

    I can't understand why he departed from that. His whole career has been essentially babbling pub bore level nonsense and letting people fill in the gaps themselves. And he's been very successful with it.

    At some point you have to govern. At some point you have to start colouring in the empty spaces.

    Mind you, Starmer & Co. haven’t got to that stage. They are content to be junior management in the ship of state.
    Cameron, Blair, even Thatcher were quite light on specifics when they took office.

    It's one reason why they ended up getting into terrible muddles, so not necessarily a good thing, but I would say Farage is making a mistake in trying for detailed policy. He doesn't really understand the issues and knows nothing about management, so they tend to look silly.

    If he concentrated on soundbites and emotions as he has up to now, he's got a much better chance of maintaining momentum.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
    It looks like they will flounder this season.
    Grimsby on the other hand are turbot-charged...
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,879
    With apologies (and massive respect) to all those who do ..... when picking a party to vote for in a GE has become so hard, it makes me very glad I personally don't also need to calculate details for betting purposes.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    MarqueeMark said:

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
    It looks like they will flounder this season.
    Grimsby on the other hand are turbot-charged...
    They're having a whale of a time.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,553
    edited August 28
    FPT, but relevant to the puns,
    LostPassword said:

    Stereodog said:

    IanB2 said:



    AugustusCarp2 said:

    LostPassword said:

    I'm just reading a little about President Hoover (in The American Political Tradition by Richard Hofstadter) and it includes this amazing detail about his work with the Commission for Relief in Belgium during WWI:

    "For four years.. Hoover's commission fed ten million people. The task was accomplished with astonishing efficiency, and when the commission's accounts were tallied at the close of operations its overhead was found to be only three eighths of one per cent of total expenditures.."

    Sounds like he was spectacularly ill-suited to be President though. I don't know why I find it so surprising that he should have been successful at many things prior to becoming President, but I am.

    There are still streets and squares in little Belgian towns named after him.
    I visited his childhood home and museum when I was travelling through Iowa last year. Given his extraordinarily humble beginnings, his is a remarkable story, and he did well, both for himself and others, in various roles across the world during his early years. The lucky break came from his involvement with a British mining company out in Australia, as I recall, where he made his name making a lot of money for the company, including by doing down the wages and conditions of its immigrant workers. He seems to have been a steady, reliable sort rather than some sort of genius, and the flip side of being down to earth was that his world view was straightforward, almost simplistic, and inflexible, and so he proved precisely the wrong sort of person to preside over the financial crisis of the depression. There isn’t a lot of compassion in his work either with the mining company or as president, making that spell organising the postwar food relief all the more remarkable. I guess he just liked and had a talent for organising stuff?
    I often think saying things like "Hoover's Commission fed ten million people" is a bit like saying "The Board of NHS England treated 1.1 million COVID cases during the pandemic". Sure having effective leadership is crucial but history and the passage of time tends to assign a lot more importance to the few memorable people at the top. In this case the historical process is helped along by the Hoover being a massive publicity hog.
    I don't know. Why is it that some organisations (Man Utd?) are incredibly badly performing and others (Man City?) are very highly performing?

    I think a lot does follow from the quality of its leadership.
    I can't remember the details, except it Involved Danny Finkelstein, The Times and some serious boffins, and was a pretty effective model of footballing success.

    As I recall it, managerial quality was a bit of a factor, but the biggest one was the size of the players' wage bill.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,864
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Don't know is still looking an excellent name for Corbyn's new party.

    There was actually an American political party referred to as the Know Nothings:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing
    And now there’s a US governing party that actually knows nothing.
    History doesn’t repeat itself but often rhymes.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,379
    Downing St said they were open to doing a deal on returning illegal migrants with Afghanistan the other day, which would surely involve the Taliban, so the faux horror about having to do a deal with nasty people is misplaced I think


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,729
    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    I think though that the unravelling will mostly happen afterwards.

    The Farage government is going to be an absolute car crash from day one. Brace.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    DavidL said:

    I see that Don't know is still looking an excellent name for Corbyn's new party.

    I still think Your Party would be far better named as the all-inclusive Our Party.

    And if you are going to have a party called Forward, it really needs to have at least one exclamation mark to be suitably fascist.

    Forward!

    Or maybe Forward!!!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,623
    .
    DougSeal said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    How would you have phrased the question?
    I'm curious about that, too.

    I'm struggling to see how it's "horribly leading", unless the argument is that the question shouldn't have been put at all.
    Which would be ridiculous.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    MarqueeMark said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Don't know is still looking an excellent name for Corbyn's new party.

    I still think Your Party would be far better named as the all-inclusive Our Party.

    And if you are going to have a party called Forward, it really needs to have at least one exclamation mark to be suitably fascist.

    Forward!

    Or maybe Forward!!!
    En Marche?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,859
    Good morning, everyone.
    MarqueeMark said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Don't know is still looking an excellent name for Corbyn's new party.

    I still think Your Party would be far better named as the all-inclusive Our Party.

    And if you are going to have a party called Forward, it really needs to have at least one exclamation mark to be suitably fascist.

    Forward!

    Or maybe Forward!!!
    Forward makes me also think of Backward, and Twirling.

    /Simpsons
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    Foxy said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    I think though that the unravelling will mostly happen afterwards.

    The Farage government is going to be an absolute car crash from day one. Brace.
    It's in the interest of all other parties to hammer it home for the next four years.

    Although, being significantly less than shit themselves would help too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    edited August 28
    Theuniondivvie said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    I see that Don't know is still looking an excellent name for Corbyn's new party.

    There was actually an American political party referred to as the Know Nothings:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing
    And now there’s a US governing party that actually knows nothing.
    History doesn’t repeat itself but often rhymes.
    There are some similarities between the Know Nothings and the Republicans.

    One was led by a second generation immigrant who espoused nativist rhetoric, was a brilliant and popular speaker who pulled enormous crowds, paid lip service to a religion that wasn't his own, married multiple women, rigged elections, used drugs and eventually went completely insane.

    The other however is led by a golf course magnate.

    (OK, how many of you did I have there?)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,721
    ydoethur said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
    It looks like they will flounder this season.
    Grimsby on the other hand are turbot-charged...
    They're having a whale of a time.
    Mods, can we please have a ruling on whether you can include cetaceans in a fish-punning contest?

    Prove you have a porpoise in life at least....
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    MarqueeMark said:

    ydoethur said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
    It looks like they will flounder this season.
    Grimsby on the other hand are turbot-charged...
    They're having a whale of a time.
    Mods, can we please have a ruling on whether you can include cetaceans in a fish-punning contest?

    Prove you have a porpoise in life at least....
    Just trying to bring it to a suitable fin-ishing pun.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,553
    A curious thing about the PM's Official Spokesperson, which I only learned yesterday.

    The current PMOS was appointed under Rishi Sunak. For a role that surely has a fair bit of partisanship about it, that seems... odd.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,848
    isam said:

    Downing St said they were open to doing a deal on returning illegal migrants with Afghanistan the other day, which would surely involve the Taliban, so the faux horror about having to do a deal with nasty people is misplaced I think


    Forgive me if my reading comprehension is not strong but where in that quote does it mention anything about an active proposal to pay the Taliban money, which is what Reform suggested as a policy, and the header’s poll was about? They proactively decided to put out a policy (rather than being “open” to suggestions) and are being criticised for said policy. Being a snowflake and crying about people being rude about them being “nasty” is not going to get far.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,132
    Stuartinromford said:

    A curious thing about the PM's Official Spokesperson, which I only learned yesterday.

    The current PMOS was appointed under Rishi Sunak. For a role that surely has a fair bit of partisanship about it, that seems... odd.

    Sir Humphrey beat you to it:

    https://youtu.be/GPsHfVCFLhU?si=BEcfTJZ4XqlJAs-k&t=178
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,729
    Stuartinromford said:

    A curious thing about the PM's Official Spokesperson, which I only learned yesterday.

    The current PMOS was appointed under Rishi Sunak. For a role that surely has a fair bit of partisanship about it, that seems... odd.

    Odd, but it explains a lot!
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,997
    Stuartinromford said:

    A curious thing about the PM's Official Spokesperson, which I only learned yesterday.

    The current PMOS was appointed under Rishi Sunak. For a role that surely has a fair bit of partisanship about it, that seems... odd.

    Surely better than having a partisan one like Nazi Barbie in the US prepared to spout any old shit despite it being obvious lies.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,623
    isam said:

    Downing St said they were open to doing a deal on returning illegal migrants with Afghanistan the other day, which would surely involve the Taliban, so the faux horror about having to do a deal with nasty people is misplaced I think


    I seriously doubt that will change public opinion on any deal which involves paying the Taliban.

    Whether from Farage or Starmer.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,685
    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Worst of the worst..

    https://x.com/whstancil/status/1960694652828299358
    So this woman is brought to the US when she's eight years old, becomes a scholarship university student to become a nurse... and is then seized by ICE, and kept in harsh captivity for six months - which wouldn't happen to most actual criminals.

    Why do this? Who was she hurting

    If she had no right to be in the US then she’s liable for deportation. It’s a political decision whether to show clemency or not, but the US elected a president determined not to.
    "The worst of the worst" - a direct quote - is whom he was elected to deport. As he's constantly repeated, before and after his election.
    We are into personal Brexit issues here - the worst of the worst for many people would be violent criminals. For Trump it's a coloured women going about her job helping others...
    Also as someone said on the last thread manifesto / campaign promises are meaningless. The executive has wide discretion (especially with a supine congress) so it’s character that matters
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 5,183
    ydoethur said:

    I wonder if this will make Farage reluctant to announce detailed policies before the election.

    Given his policies are pretty off the wall, and appear to be based on a mixture of naivety and ignorance, that would probably be to his advantage.

    I can't understand why he departed from that. His whole career has been essentially babbling pub bore level nonsense and letting people fill in the gaps themselves. And he's been very successful with it.

    It's all about generating the clicks, the content does not matter.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,757
    edited August 28
    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Quite. The reality is that it is far more likely that Farage steps on a political landmine than that he ever enters Number 10. Those punters who are taking the bait at the moment are pretty much mugs.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,551
    Cicero said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Quite. The reality is that it is far more likely that Farage steps on a political landmine than that he ever enters Number 10. Those punters who are taking the bait at the moment are pretty much mugs.
    Or, he steps on a political landmine and the voters don't care.

    Trump blew himself to pieces by conventional political standards more times than he plays golf and yet is now in WH again.

    Feels to me like 30-odd % of public have made their mind up to be honest and want Farage's lovely snakeoil down their gullets.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,553
    Cicero said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Quite. The reality is that it is far more likely that Farage steps on a political landmine than that he ever enters Number 10. Those punters who are taking the bait at the moment are pretty much mugs.
    To give him his due, Farage has avoided the landmines for a generation.

    But he hasn't had a semi-serious rival on his right before. That makes the dance much harder.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,551
    edited August 28
    boulay said:

    Stuartinromford said:

    A curious thing about the PM's Official Spokesperson, which I only learned yesterday.

    The current PMOS was appointed under Rishi Sunak. For a role that surely has a fair bit of partisanship about it, that seems... odd.

    Surely better than having a partisan one like Nazi Barbie in the US prepared to spout any old shit despite it being obvious lies.
    I'm sure Farage will make sure Essex PR or Dewsbury or someone similar is in the role when he is PM.

    Most of the next Cabinet are currently working at GB News don't forget.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,705
    MarqueeMark said:

    ydoethur said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
    It looks like they will flounder this season.
    Grimsby on the other hand are turbot-charged...
    They're having a whale of a time.
    Mods, can we please have a ruling on whether you can include cetaceans in a fish-punning contest?

    Prove you have a porpoise in life at least....
    In a contest like that, surely the world is your oyster?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,757
    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,743
    edited August 28
    In Farage flag news.

    On a journey from the Vale of Glamorgan to Heanor and back yesterday I saw my first flags at the Birmingham South junction of the M42 just past Hopwood, a nice array of Union and George flags adorning the rails on the bridge, nothing at Portway but Shirley and Solihull bridges proved magnificent examples of vexillology, including a flag of St David. Then only a few dotted on bridges here and there to Tamworth, but the East Midlands was a real disappointment. On the return journey a Jack and a Dragon just North of Cardiff.

    The West Midlands is I deduce is the land of the patriot
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,568
    ydoethur said:

    Malmesbury said:

    ydoethur said:

    I wonder if this will make Farage reluctant to announce detailed policies before the election.

    Given his policies are pretty off the wall, and appear to be based on a mixture of naivety and ignorance, that would probably be to his advantage.

    I can't understand why he departed from that. His whole career has been essentially babbling pub bore level nonsense and letting people fill in the gaps themselves. And he's been very successful with it.

    At some point you have to govern. At some point you have to start colouring in the empty spaces.

    Mind you, Starmer & Co. haven’t got to that stage. They are content to be junior management in the ship of state.
    Cameron, Blair, even Thatcher were quite light on specifics when they took office.

    It's one reason why they ended up getting into terrible muddles, so not necessarily a good thing, but I would say Farage is making a mistake in trying for detailed policy. He doesn't really understand the issues and knows nothing about management, so they tend to look silly.

    If he concentrated on soundbites and emotions as he has up to now, he's got a much better chance of maintaining momentum.
    Cameron had quite a raft of policies - remember the Labour jibes about hugging hoodies and huskies?

    Thatcher had quite a program. She also had depth of talent in her cabinet. For all the talk of authoritarian centralisation, she let ministers develop policy - within overall limits.

    Blair as well - the main thrust was fiscal discipline combined with spending any cash available on NHS and schools.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,734
    Mexicanpete said:

    The West Midlands is I deduce is the land of the patriot

    You seem to have misspelled prat
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 4,802
    Scott_xP said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    The West Midlands is I deduce is the land of the patriot

    You seem to have misspelled prat
    As a born west midlander I commend this comment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,705
    Cicero said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    Those with wealth and power - the donors, financiers, magnates, media moguls and the rest, typically sit behind the Tories, then when it looks like the Tories are tired and heading for one of their spells out of government, quietly moves behind Labour, such that they always have money on the winner when it comes time for favours to be repaid. Hence the panic when it looks like an outsider might be about to break the system, as during Cleggmania in 2010. What isn't clear is whether Farage is already tied into those power networks such that his winning will be seen as acceptable, or whether there will be the most concerted effort to trash his brand and prospects when the election comes...
  • kjhkjh Posts: 13,113
    In response to @eek on the last thread as to why on earth I am staying in Calais on Friday. Well those evil French put both their port and railway station there and I'm on a bike on my way to Toulouse so c'est la vie I have no choice and until Eurostar sort out the fact that it is ridiculous you have pack a bike on their train (they didn't prior to 2016) I have had to stay over. Trying to get them to appreciate you can't carry a big box on a bike trip has been fruitless. They blame Brexit, although it doesn't seem to impact Ferries who are happy with you tying it to a bar in the car storage area with the motorbikes. Ferries are very friendly to push bike owners.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 52,705
    kjh said:

    In response to @eek on the last thread as to why on earth I am staying in Calais on Friday. Well those evil French put both their port and railway station there and I'm on a bike on my way to Toulouse so c'est la vie I have no choice and until Eurostar sort out the fact that it is ridiculous you have pack a bike on their train (they didn't prior to 2016) I have had to stay over. Trying to get them to appreciate you can't carry a big box on a bike trip has been fruitless. They blame Brexit, although it doesn't seem to impact Ferries who are happy with you tying it to a bar in the car storage area with the motorbikes. Ferries are very friendly to push bike owners.

    Eurostar is pretty much the only international rail service (or indeed railway anywhere in Europe) which won't take pets, either. Basically they don't want anything complicated to have to deal with.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,635
    Mexicanpete said:

    In Farage flag news.

    On a journey from the Vale of Glamorgan to Heanor and back yesterday I saw my first flags at the Birmingham South junction of the M42 just past Hopwood, a nice array of Union and George flags adorning the rails on the bridge, nothing at Portway but Shirley and Solihull bridges proved magnificent examples of vexillology, including a flag of St David. Then only a few dotted on bridges here and there to Tamworth, but the East Midlands was a real disappointment. On the return journey a Jack and a Dragon just North of Cardiff.

    The West Midlands is I deduce is the land of the patriot

    I've seen three California flags in the city centre. The Newsom effect.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,623
    StillWaters said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Worst of the worst..

    https://x.com/whstancil/status/1960694652828299358
    So this woman is brought to the US when she's eight years old, becomes a scholarship university student to become a nurse... and is then seized by ICE, and kept in harsh captivity for six months - which wouldn't happen to most actual criminals.

    Why do this? Who was she hurting

    If she had no right to be in the US then she’s liable for deportation. It’s a political decision whether to show clemency or not, but the US elected a president determined not to.
    "The worst of the worst" - a direct quote - is whom he was elected to deport. As he's constantly repeated, before and after his election.
    We are into personal Brexit issues here - the worst of the worst for many people would be violent criminals. For Trump it's a coloured women going about her job helping others...
    Also as someone said on the last thread manifesto / campaign promises are meaningless. The executive has wide discretion (especially with a supine congress) so it’s character that matters
    Indeed.
    But look at current polling on Trump's actual deportation policy. It's not popular.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,685
    Nigelb said:

    StillWaters said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Worst of the worst..

    https://x.com/whstancil/status/1960694652828299358
    So this woman is brought to the US when she's eight years old, becomes a scholarship university student to become a nurse... and is then seized by ICE, and kept in harsh captivity for six months - which wouldn't happen to most actual criminals.

    Why do this? Who was she hurting

    If she had no right to be in the US then she’s liable for deportation. It’s a political decision whether to show clemency or not, but the US elected a president determined not to.
    "The worst of the worst" - a direct quote - is whom he was elected to deport. As he's constantly repeated, before and after his election.
    We are into personal Brexit issues here - the worst of the worst for many people would be violent criminals. For Trump it's a coloured women going about her job helping others...
    Also as someone said on the last thread manifesto / campaign promises are meaningless. The executive has wide discretion (especially with a supine congress) so it’s character that matters
    Indeed.
    But look at current polling on Trump's actual deportation policy. It's not popular.
    I’m not surprised. But that won’t stop him
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,412
    edited August 28
    Good morning, everyone.

    One for @Malmesbury probably - where does this "Process State" idea come from, and have you or somebody else written a header about it?

    I'm just catching up with Christopher Biggins' inchoate fury that THEY have revoked HIS driving licence because he failed an eye test required at 75, and wonder if we are going to get more of this wrt the eye test changes. And they WON'T ACCEPT an eye test that HE commissioned HIMSELF.

    Now, it smacks of personal entitlement, and he's a twat for not having prepared himself - test a year early, up to date glasses etc. But there have always been real problems at the DVLA; I'm terrified of their mistakes, because by the time it is sorted out (maybe) 2 years later, your life is wrecked in a car-dependent society.

    So I thought of you, but the bloody search engine results are all buried in systems engineering State Machine results.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,623
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That bus is horribly leading.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,685
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That bus is horribly leading.
    And completely ineffective. Just making smug remainers feel smug about themselves. Number of voters converted: zero
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,997
    Eabhal said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    In Farage flag news.

    On a journey from the Vale of Glamorgan to Heanor and back yesterday I saw my first flags at the Birmingham South junction of the M42 just past Hopwood, a nice array of Union and George flags adorning the rails on the bridge, nothing at Portway but Shirley and Solihull bridges proved magnificent examples of vexillology, including a flag of St David. Then only a few dotted on bridges here and there to Tamworth, but the East Midlands was a real disappointment. On the return journey a Jack and a Dragon just North of Cardiff.

    The West Midlands is I deduce is the land of the patriot

    I've seen three California flags in the city centre. The Newsom effect.
    Are you sure it’s not just women flying flags to signal they have chosen bear over man?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,623
    Something to bear in mind if betting on the US midterms.

    The polls make perfect sense

    Democrats and Dem leaning Independents are more than willing to openly shit on the Democratic Party and still vote for it

    It's why Republicans are still scared and trying to rig the elections next year
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1960743453131751444
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,921
    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That bus is horribly leading.
    And completely ineffective. Just making smug remainers feel smug about themselves. Number of voters converted: zero
    I don’t think it’s meant to convert anyone . It’s just funny and yes Remainers like myself do feel smug and more sure by the day that I voted the right way .
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 10,685
    nico67 said:

    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That bus is horribly leading.
    And completely ineffective. Just making smug remainers feel smug about themselves. Number of voters converted: zero
    I don’t think it’s meant to convert anyone . It’s just funny and yes Remainers like myself do feel smug and more sure by the day that I voted the right way .
    About as funny as a Steve Bell cartoon
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,623
    Nigelb said:

    Something to bear in mind if betting on the US midterms.

    The polls make perfect sense

    Democrats and Dem leaning Independents are more than willing to openly shit on the Democratic Party and still vote for it

    It's why Republicans are still scared and trying to rig the elections next year
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1960743453131751444

    Whereas Trump is fairly unlikely to be running, next time around.

    Trump Job Net-Approval:

    All: -18%

    Independents: -27%

    Men: +1%
    Women: -36%

    Quinnipiac / Aug 25, 2025
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1960767040689492130
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,967
    DougSeal said:

    If their opponents were to push a line about Reform paying the Taliban to “welcome” female refugees they might make some headway with half the population.

    Returning females to the Taliban jars with the notion that concern about migrants is driven by a protective feeling towards women and girls.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 40,581
    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Downing St said they were open to doing a deal on returning illegal migrants with Afghanistan the other day, which would surely involve the Taliban, so the faux horror about having to do a deal with nasty people is misplaced I think


    I seriously doubt that will change public opinion on any deal which involves paying the Taliban.

    Whether from Farage or Starmer.
    The money involved seems trivial going by the German deal, €1000 per deportee. If that's all it takes then we should sign up tomorrow.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,967
    Nigelb said:


    Nigelb said:

    Something to bear in mind if betting on the US midterms.

    The polls make perfect sense

    Democrats and Dem leaning Independents are more than willing to openly shit on the Democratic Party and still vote for it

    It's why Republicans are still scared and trying to rig the elections next year
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1960743453131751444

    Whereas Trump is fairly unlikely to be running, next time around.

    Trump Job Net-Approval:

    All: -18%

    Independents: -27%

    Men: +1%
    Women: -36%

    Quinnipiac / Aug 25, 2025
    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1960767040689492130
    That's a huge gender gap.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,864
    boulay said:

    Eabhal said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    In Farage flag news.

    On a journey from the Vale of Glamorgan to Heanor and back yesterday I saw my first flags at the Birmingham South junction of the M42 just past Hopwood, a nice array of Union and George flags adorning the rails on the bridge, nothing at Portway but Shirley and Solihull bridges proved magnificent examples of vexillology, including a flag of St David. Then only a few dotted on bridges here and there to Tamworth, but the East Midlands was a real disappointment. On the return journey a Jack and a Dragon just North of Cardiff.

    The West Midlands is I deduce is the land of the patriot

    I've seen three California flags in the city centre. The Newsom effect.
    Are you sure it’s not just women flying flags to signal they have chosen bear over man?
    Rather than overbearing man?
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,921
    MaxPB said:

    Nigelb said:

    isam said:

    Downing St said they were open to doing a deal on returning illegal migrants with Afghanistan the other day, which would surely involve the Taliban, so the faux horror about having to do a deal with nasty people is misplaced I think


    I seriously doubt that will change public opinion on any deal which involves paying the Taliban.

    Whether from Farage or Starmer.
    The money involved seems trivial going by the German deal, €1000 per deportee. If that's all it takes then we should sign up tomorrow.
    The Germans are apparently only sending back failed asylum seekers and criminals . It’s not a blanket policy like the one proposed by Reform which seeks to send all Afghans back .
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,780
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    If their opponents were to push a line about Reform paying the Taliban to “welcome” female refugees they might make some headway with half the population.

    Returning females to the Taliban jars with the notion that concern about migrants is driven by a protective feeling towards women and girls.
    It's only "are women and girls" though isn't it.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,079
    ydoethur said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    ydoethur said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
    It looks like they will flounder this season.
    Grimsby on the other hand are turbot-charged...
    They're having a whale of a time.
    Mods, can we please have a ruling on whether you can include cetaceans in a fish-punning contest?

    Prove you have a porpoise in life at least....
    Just trying to bring it to a suitable fin-ishing pun.
    ydoethur said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    ydoethur said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    Foxy said:

    DougSeal said:

    ydoethur said:

    DougSeal said:

    First. Like Grimsby

    I take it there was nothing fishy about their win?
    They put Man Utd in their plaice
    It looks like they will flounder this season.
    Grimsby on the other hand are turbot-charged...
    They're having a whale of a time.
    Mods, can we please have a ruling on whether you can include cetaceans in a fish-punning contest?

    Prove you have a porpoise in life at least....
    Just trying to bring it to a suitable fin-ishing pun.
    All this crabbing.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,780
    nico67 said:

    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That bus is horribly leading.
    And completely ineffective. Just making smug remainers feel smug about themselves. Number of voters converted: zero
    I don’t think it’s meant to convert anyone . It’s just funny and yes Remainers like myself do feel smug and more sure by the day that I voted the right way .
    Can you imagine being a Leave voter? Waking up every day and knowing that you did that?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,864
    edited August 28
    kinabalu said:

    DougSeal said:

    If their opponents were to push a line about Reform paying the Taliban to “welcome” female refugees they might make some headway with half the population.

    Returning females to the Taliban jars with the notion that concern about migrants is driven by a protective feeling towards women and girls.
    Only women folk carrying knives & axes are worth caring about apparently, though I daresay armed brown skinned ones may not engender the same nurturing impulse.

    The Daily Mail of all organs debunking the latest cause of Leon hystericising, though they do get a sly 'he's still foreign' dig in.

    https://x.com/lokiscottishrap/status/1960952314405040323
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,921
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/28/ban-on-news-outlet-by-nottinghamshire-county-council-reform-leader-a-massive-attack-on-local-democracy

    Reform has some really worrying tendencies. I fear for this country if they ever get into power at Westminster.

    It’s no surprise . The only free speech they want is one that agrees with them . In power they will try and muzzle the press and trash democracy because that’s the playbook of all current extreme right parties .
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,287
    rottenborough said:

    Cicero said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Quite. The reality is that it is far more likely that Farage steps on a political landmine than that he ever enters Number 10. Those punters who are taking the bait at the moment are pretty much mugs.
    Or, he steps on a political landmine and the voters don't care.

    Trump blew himself to pieces by conventional political standards more times than he plays golf and yet is now in WH again.

    Feels to me like 30-odd % of public have made their mind up to be honest and want Farage's lovely snakeoil down their gullets.

    The polls suggest that Reform are topping out and the Tories are bottoming out.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,734
    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That bus is horribly leading.
    And completely ineffective.
    It triggered you
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,859
    Barnesian said:

    rottenborough said:

    Cicero said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Quite. The reality is that it is far more likely that Farage steps on a political landmine than that he ever enters Number 10. Those punters who are taking the bait at the moment are pretty much mugs.
    Or, he steps on a political landmine and the voters don't care.

    Trump blew himself to pieces by conventional political standards more times than he plays golf and yet is now in WH again.

    Feels to me like 30-odd % of public have made their mind up to be honest and want Farage's lovely snakeoil down their gullets.

    The polls suggest that Reform are topping out and the Tories are bottoming out.

    Labour still on a ski slope, though.
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,287
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Barnesian said:

    rottenborough said:

    Cicero said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Quite. The reality is that it is far more likely that Farage steps on a political landmine than that he ever enters Number 10. Those punters who are taking the bait at the moment are pretty much mugs.
    Or, he steps on a political landmine and the voters don't care.

    Trump blew himself to pieces by conventional political standards more times than he plays golf and yet is now in WH again.

    Feels to me like 30-odd % of public have made their mind up to be honest and want Farage's lovely snakeoil down their gullets.

    The polls suggest that Reform are topping out and the Tories are bottoming out.

    Labour still on a ski slope, though.
    Looks like a red to me.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,139
    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Don't you think it's a bit complacent to assume their support will move in the direction you would like it to?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 80,013
    Absolute sea of St George on the road markings near me ! Whoever is doing the spraying needs to buy some white cans though for the miniroundabouts as the council don't seem to have repainted them white in years.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,298
    edited August 28
    Cicero said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,743
    Andy_JS said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Don't you think it's a bit complacent to assume their support will move in the direction you would like it to?
    We can but hope.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,298
    Pulpstar said:

    Absolute sea of St George on the road markings near me ! Whoever is doing the spraying needs to buy some white cans though for the miniroundabouts as the council don't seem to have repainted them white in years.

    Leafy areas around Chichester too. The straws in the wind are much like they were for Leave before Brexit.

    No-one in the chattering classes can understand it, but the populace is fed up with the way they're being ruled.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,412
    edited August 28
    On RefUK, Lee Anderson became a little aerated thsi week on Facebook about local media - Nottinghamshire Live, who are a main outlet reporting on RefUK Councillors and their problems:

    Lee Anderson
    There are some media outlets I will engage with but not you lot. Read the room Nottinghamshire Live, we are going to win the next election. We'll speak up on behalf of the British people whilst you on printing rubbish. I stand with my colleagues at Nottinghamshire County Council.
    https://www.facebook.com/LeeAndersoninAshfieldMansfield/posts/1296871738778085

    There are angles on that.

    Mr Anderson feels he is strong enough to get away with it VS Why is he so scared?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 45,079
    Pulpstar said:

    Absolute sea of St George on the road markings near me ! Whoever is doing the spraying needs to buy some white cans though for the miniroundabouts as the council don't seem to have repainted them white in years.

    If they are white and red, that is, non-regulation, then drivers don't have to obey them surely? Or at least they will try that on.

    I recall when some smartalec lawyer found an error in the specification for speed limit signs and got lots of criminal drivers off.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,806
    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/28/ban-on-news-outlet-by-nottinghamshire-county-council-reform-leader-a-massive-attack-on-local-democracy

    Reform has some really worrying tendencies. I fear for this country if they ever get into power at Westminster.

    The Fukkers are targeting the same voters as brexit - uneducated and underinformed.

    However, brexit didn't need candidates or a plan for day one but a GE campaign needs both of those things. So Fukker candidates are drawn from their supporters, uneducated and underinformed, but also with a complete lack of self-awareness as an added bonus. When they do win office this results in performances like the Nottinghamshire CC guy who just kept grinning idiotically and saying, I genuinely have no idea, when interviewed on his economic portfolio.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,794
    The 17% of voters who support funding the Taliban to take Afghan migrants back is still slightly higher than the Reform vote at the last general election. However it is still well below the 30% or so currently backing Reform, so this is an own goal by Farage
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,743
    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
    If the last 48 hours is anything to go by good luck with that low thirties. The Sultanas could be out in front by then.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,298
    Dura_Ace said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/28/ban-on-news-outlet-by-nottinghamshire-county-council-reform-leader-a-massive-attack-on-local-democracy

    Reform has some really worrying tendencies. I fear for this country if they ever get into power at Westminster.

    The Fukkers are targeting the same voters as brexit - uneducated and underinformed.

    However, brexit didn't need candidates or a plan for day one but a GE campaign needs both of those things. So Fukker candidates are drawn from their supporters, uneducated and underinformed, but also with a complete lack of self-awareness as an added bonus. When they do win office this results in performances like the Nottinghamshire CC guy who just kept grinning idiotically and saying, I genuinely have no idea, when interviewed on his economic portfolio.
    Labour didn't seem to get the memo about needing a plan for day one.....
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,298
    edited August 28
    Mexicanpete said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
    If the last 48 hours is anything to go by good luck with that low thirties. The Sultanas could be out in front by then.
    A split left, with Sultana tendencies leading, will I suspect drive centrist voters towards the expected bulwark against them.

    Tories and LDs for Reform; you heard it here first.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,743
    Mortimer said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    OnlyLivingBoy said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/aug/28/ban-on-news-outlet-by-nottinghamshire-county-council-reform-leader-a-massive-attack-on-local-democracy

    Reform has some really worrying tendencies. I fear for this country if they ever get into power at Westminster.

    The Fukkers are targeting the same voters as brexit - uneducated and underinformed.

    However, brexit didn't need candidates or a plan for day one but a GE campaign needs both of those things. So Fukker candidates are drawn from their supporters, uneducated and underinformed, but also with a complete lack of self-awareness as an added bonus. When they do win office this results in performances like the Nottinghamshire CC guy who just kept grinning idiotically and saying, I genuinely have no idea, when interviewed on his economic portfolio.
    Labour didn't seem to get the memo about needing a plan for day one.....
    Other than austerity in 2010 we haven't had a plan for day one since 1997.

    Things can only get better!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,806
    Andy_JS said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Don't you think it's a bit complacent to assume their support will move in the direction you would like it to?
    Are you unfamiliar with MM's oeuvre? 99% of his output is hopes and dreams presented as prognostication. See his Kamala/Trump material.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,729
    Pulpstar said:

    Absolute sea of St George on the road markings near me ! Whoever is doing the spraying needs to buy some white cans though for the miniroundabouts as the council don't seem to have repainted them white in years.

    A Green friend of mine has pointed out how easy it is to convert these patriotic mini-roundabouts to anarchist or extinction rebellion symbols with a few additions...
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,450
    StillWaters said:

    nico67 said:

    StillWaters said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    That bus is horribly leading.
    And completely ineffective. Just making smug remainers feel smug about themselves. Number of voters converted: zero
    I don’t think it’s meant to convert anyone . It’s just funny and yes Remainers like myself do feel smug and more sure by the day that I voted the right way .
    About as funny as a Steve Bell cartoon
    The prodigal brexiteer demands a feast in their honour

    https://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/ Nick and Ken the flower pot men are a highlight for me, but Bozza was a rich source of content https://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/others/The-Owners/220708_NUJ239-SPINBOZZA or Trump and Gove https://www.belltoons.co.uk/bellworks/index.php/others/The-Owners/170203_NUJ211TRUMPGOVE
  • isamisam Posts: 42,379
    edited August 28
    Stuartinromford said:

    Cicero said:

    MarqueeMark said:

    There's nearly four years for Reform's bullshit to unravel before the election.

    Currently well ahead of schedule...

    Quite. The reality is that it is far more likely that Farage steps on a political landmine than that he ever enters Number 10. Those punters who are taking the bait at the moment are pretty much mugs.
    To give him his due, Farage has avoided the landmines for a generation.

    But he hasn't had a semi-serious rival on his right before. That makes the dance much harder.
    Nick Griffin’s BNP were a rival on Farage’s right before, winning council seats, and were vanquished.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,743
    Mortimer said:

    Mexicanpete said:

    Mortimer said:

    Cicero said:

    Luckyguy1983 said:

    I doubt it; that question is horribly leading and yet another tear in Yougov's increasingly tattered reputation.

    Reform could (and perhaps will) respond with polling showing a big majority in favour of their policy due to an equally leading question, and therefore polls become weapons of propaganda rather than useful indicators of public sentiment.

    ...which is pretty much what happened in the USA.

    RefUK really are using the tactics of their MAGA mates to the maximum possible, but it remains to be seen how for this works in a Parliamentary rather than a Presidential system. I think the best RefUK can do is gain enough seats to get a deadlock in the House of Commons, but actually taking power, especially with growing investigation of their policies and personnel seems like a very big ask indeed.
    With Lab and Con both on around 18-20%, LD on 14-17% and a Jez n'mates party on 15%, the FPTP system pretty much guarantees a majority for Reform on even a low 30s result.
    If the last 48 hours is anything to go by good luck with that low thirties. The Sultanas could be out in front by then.
    A split left, with Sultana tendencies leading, will I suspect drive centrist voters towards the expected bulwark against them.

    Tories and LDs for Reform; you heard it here first.
    So a choice between Hezbollah or Taliban cheerleaders. Hmmm.
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