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Unlikely villains: Sir Geoffrey Howe – politicalbetting.com

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  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,178

    Eabhal said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    You would be wrong.
    It would be very good. For some people.

    The path to profit from dry wells is quite simple.

    1) you setup a new company to drill a well/frack a site.
    2) you get a ton of investors - indeed your share of the project is quite small.
    3) you need a company to actually drill the well. As luck would have it, you own just such a company.
    4) the holes are all dry. The company doing the exploration goes bankrupt. You are not entirely downcast, however. Unlike your investors.

    So you take the profits from your drilling company and buy the rights to look for oil/gas on a piece of land…
    My dissillusionment with the whole oil industry started early in my career when I realised that there were instances where it was far better for company directors if we didn't find any oil than if we did. Very much smacked of an industry version of The Producers.
    I'm curious about one thing with the whole fracking business: in the UK is it remotely even comparably economic to do it when there is clearly still oil and gas in the North Sea and there is the actual infrastructure there and the skills to just drill it out?

    Norway announced last week they had discovered a whole ton more in one their zones thanks to improved discovery tech iirc.
    Answer to your fracking question is no. It isn't. Even the guy who was running the project up outside Blackpool made that admission a couple of years ago.

    Norway are going full on with exploration and expanding their oil and gas industry. Equinor - the rebranded Statoil - came out to the COSL Innovator where I was working in May to visit the crew as the rig was moving to Norway after the end of the UK contract. Their purpose was to reassure the Britsh crew that they would not be replaced by Norwegians. The reason was simple. They don't have the people to replace them. They are desperately short of rigs and experienced crews not least because they have plans to drill 120 wells over the next 2 years. That is just one company. In the UK we probably won't drill 10 wells in that same period.

    The Norwegian Government has also given permssion for 42 E&A wells this year. The net cash flow to the Norwegian Government for Oil and Gas revenues in 2025 is predicted at 698 billion NOK - about £50 billion. And no small amount of that will be paid by the British taxpayer to import OIl and Gas from Norway as we are not producing it ourselves - and yes it is there. We have just made a political decision not to extract it.
    Are our remaining reserves potentially of a similar magnitude ?
    In the North Sea yes. The Norwegians also have the Norwegian and Barents Sea which bumps up their reserves a lot. We have West of Shetlands which helps with ours a lot as well. But we are continually finding new ways both to improve extraction of existing fields and find new reserves.
    In which case, is Ed Milliband not in danger of beqeathing Nigel Farrage a North Sea funded boom similar to the one Mrs T found so helpful?
    Sadly not. The Oil companies are pulling out and are shutting down the fields, removing infrastructure and properly abandoning wells. That is my job. Sealing the 640 odd wells on the Forties field to ensure they will not leak for the next several thousand years or more.

    By the time Miliband is driven from power much of the infrastructure will be gone. Even companies who want to carry on are being prevented from doing so because the GIvernment is allowing majrs to remove pipeline and distribution hubs. Last week's decision to allow Total to shut down the Gryphon FPSO which will also mean the end for a series of other companies who transport their oil through the hub. They will have to shut down and abandon their fields as well even though they are still economic.
    This is...pretty catastrophic really. Is there nobody in Government who reads PB or generally knows what is going on in government? Or is it all metropolitan elite headlines and podcasts? Rarely has there been a Government minister who I would be happy to see drop dead but Miliband really is a dumb [redacted word]
    He just seems utterly incapable of understanding we will still need to burn gas for a long time yet under any kind of realistic Net Zero plan.

    So why import it?
    There is no scenario where we can cease importing gas. Even if maximise production it will fall by over 50% by 2035.

    We already import 66% of our gas. That proportion will increase to over 80% in the next decade unless we cut our consumption.
    So there are absolutely no reasons to restrict North Sea exploration and drilling then, right?
    We should be encouraging it.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,205

    Acyn
    @Acyn


    Reporter: It requires an act of congress to rename the Defense Department

    Trump: We’re just going to do it. I’m sure Congress will just go along

    https://x.com/Acyn/status/1960072444716450087

    Are they going to spell it properly?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,395
    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 30,490
    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    Glad I wasn't the only one who didn't quite get that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    rcs1000 said:

    stodge said:

    There are apparently 3.3 billion barrels of oil in the UK section of the North Sea.

    https://www.rigzone.com/news/regulator_reveals_latest_uk_oil_gas_reserves_estimate-23-oct-2024-178513-article/#:~:text=In a statement posted on its website, the,2023 is 3.3 billion barrels of oil equivalent.

    Saudi Arabia produces 9 million barrels per day so that's 3,285 million (or 3 billion) every year so what we have left is one year of Saudi Aarabia's production (for a bit of context).

    Well, I'm sure there is more than that.

    But you do have to understand that oil saturated rock isn't like a water bottle you drain. As oil comes out the well, the pressure of the reservoir drops, and so you need to use techniques to maintain pressure. Modern offshore development is designed from day one with water injection to maintain reservoir pressure, but it still means that the percentage of water coming back up is ever rising (the water 'cut'). At some point, it becomes economically difficult to maintain because you're pulling out so much water relative to oil.
    There is, if you read the rest of the link.
    One of the prime reasons (as Richard said earlier) “reserves” as defined here are in decline is that we’ve essentially ceased work to add to them.

    3.3bn is basically what’s recoverable if we don’t reverse the rundown of operations in UK waters. It’s not what might be left to be found.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,712
    Liverpool did not deserve 3 points.

    Got them though.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,895
    What a travesty . Liverpool were awful .
  • What a game that was! Liverpool already this season are not for the faint of heart.

    Some cracking goals and entertainment though.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,836
    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    Noted cultural icon, the bus wanker:

    https://inbetweeners.fandom.com/wiki/"Bus_wankers!"

    Hence briefcase wanker, bike wanker etc, a longstanding phrase amongst the yoof.

    Recently, they have become more extreme: bus nonce, briefcase nonce, bike nonce.

    The wanker doesn't literally wank, the nonce doesn't literally nonce. It's a verbal formula and no more.

    A dickhead doesn't have a dick on his head.

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,705
    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,105
    edited August 25
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    The problem is that most of the people who support fracking have very little idea of what is involved. And, I'm not talking about environmental impact or net zero. I'm talking about the fact that, in the US, it is done in massive areas with no people. No one is fracking in the suburbs or outside pretty villages, they're fracking on massive empty ranches with a population density of fuck all.

    The UK isn't like that. The UK - even the less populated bits - still has lots of people.

    And fracking is fundamentally very land intensive. It involves setting up a drill pad, drilling horizontal wells, then bringing in massive diesel pumps to do hydraulic fracturing of the rock,

    To make that all economic you need to run the gear 24 hours a day. If you're only doing it 8 hours a day, it costs 3x as much to produce. And there aren't many* communities in the UK that will want drilling and fracking equipment running 24/7 for six months in their local environs.

    Finally: we've drilled some wells. And the results have not been great. There's not been a single well by iGas or one of the other players in this space that's encountered commercial quantities of gas. Now, it may be that -with time- that can be overcome. It took a long while to get some of the US shale plays producing economically. But if you put the two things together: (1) much higher costs, because the UK is a dense country, and (2) the lack of any formations that are clearly economically viable, and you can see why iGas and Caudrilla lost 99% of their value before there were any bans on fracking in the UK.

    Now, that doesn't mean there aren't really interesting projects that could be economically viable. I quite like in-situ gassification of old coalfields under the sea. (And which, by the way, might be remarkably economic as well as not being anywhere near as disruptive.)

    But just saying 'fracking' demonstrates you really don't know very much about energy production.

    * Well, any
    Thanks for the interesting information. I always assume you're right on these subjects.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Saw a few on a street in Failsworth (is there a less euphonious place name in Britain ?), also on lampposts.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Saw a few on a street in Failsworth (is there a less euphonious place name in Britain ?), also on lampposts.
    Loads in Battle. But given its history they may be a regular thing
  • Liverpool did not deserve 3 points.

    Got them though.

    At the end of the season, there's no asterisk next to points like this. :)

    Cool stat - Rio's 100th minute goal makes him the youngest ever Premier League player to score the winner, just 1 day younger than Rooney was when he got his first winner.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Saw a few on a street in Failsworth (is there a less euphonious place name in Britain ?), also on lampposts.
    Loads in Battle. But given its history they may be a regular thing
    The Manchester suburb ones were a pretty isolated, sad effort.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    The problem is that most of the people who support fracking have very little idea of what is involved. And, I'm not talking about environmental impact or net zero. I'm talking about the fact that, in the US, it is done in massive areas with no people. No one is fracking in the suburbs or outside pretty villages, they're fracking on massive empty ranches with a population density of fuck all.

    The UK isn't like that. The UK - even the less populated bits - still has lots of people.

    And fracking is fundamentally very land intensive. It involves setting up a drill pad, drilling horizontal wells, then bringing in massive diesel pumps to do hydraulic fracturing of the rock,

    To make that all economic you need to run the gear 24 hours a day. If you're only doing it 8 hours a day, it costs 3x as much to produce. And there aren't many* communities in the UK that will want drilling and fracking equipment running 24/7 for six months in their local environs.

    Finally: we've drilled some wells. And the results have not been great. There's not been a single well by iGas or one of the other players in this space that's encountered commercial quantities of gas. Now, it may be that -with time- that can be overcome. It took a long while to get some of the US shale plays producing economically. But if you put the two things together: (1) much higher costs, because the UK is a dense country, and (2) the lack of any formations that are clearly economically viable, and you can see why iGas and Caudrilla lost 99% of their value before there were any bans on fracking in the UK.

    Now, that doesn't mean there aren't really interesting projects that could be economically viable. I quite like in-situ gassification of old coalfields under the sea. (And which, by the way, might be remarkably economic as well as not being anywhere near as disruptive.)

    But just saying 'fracking' demonstrates you really don't know very much about energy production.

    * Well, any
    Thanks for the interesting information. I always assume you're right on these subjects.
    Robert has lost serious money on past fracking investments (he tells us), so he probably knows a fair amount about what works and what doesn’t.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,846
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Saw a few on a street in Failsworth (is there a less euphonious place name in Britain ?), also on lampposts.
    Loads in Battle. But given its history they may be a regular thing
    Presumably the Anglo Saxon war flag rather than the nouveau Cross of St George, let alone the vulgar arriviste that is the Union flag.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,525
    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    The problem is that most of the people who support fracking have very little idea of what is involved. And, I'm not talking about environmental impact or net zero. I'm talking about the fact that, in the US, it is done in massive areas with no people. No one is fracking in the suburbs or outside pretty villages, they're fracking on massive empty ranches with a population density of fuck all.

    The UK isn't like that. The UK - even the less populated bits - still has lots of people.

    And fracking is fundamentally very land intensive. It involves setting up a drill pad, drilling horizontal wells, then bringing in massive diesel pumps to do hydraulic fracturing of the rock,

    To make that all economic you need to run the gear 24 hours a day. If you're only doing it 8 hours a day, it costs 3x as much to produce. And there aren't many* communities in the UK that will want drilling and fracking equipment running 24/7 for six months in their local environs.

    Finally: we've drilled some wells. And the results have not been great. There's not been a single well by iGas or one of the other players in this space that's encountered commercial quantities of gas. Now, it may be that -with time- that can be overcome. It took a long while to get some of the US shale plays producing economically. But if you put the two things together: (1) much higher costs, because the UK is a dense country, and (2) the lack of any formations that are clearly economically viable, and you can see why iGas and Caudrilla lost 99% of their value before there were any bans on fracking in the UK.

    Now, that doesn't mean there aren't really interesting projects that could be economically viable. I quite like in-situ gassification of old coalfields under the sea. (And which, by the way, might be remarkably economic as well as not being anywhere near as disruptive.)

    But just saying 'fracking' demonstrates you really don't know very much about energy production.

    * Well, any
    Thanks for the interesting information. I always assume you're right on these subjects.
    It's classic Farage populist tripe. Like all the other stuff.

    He just shouts 'we should be fracking, its common sense' like any old know nothing soak several gins down on a bar stool in the Dog and Wolf and yet many think it is pearls of wisdom from some kind of modern Churchill.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,525
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Saw a few on a street in Failsworth (is there a less euphonious place name in Britain ?), also on lampposts.
    Loads in Battle. But given its history they may be a regular thing
    Surely they should be Norman?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,717
    edited August 25
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Saw a few on a street in Failsworth (is there a less euphonious place name in Britain ?), also on lampposts.
    I must've been one arterial around from you the other day - a couple between Harpurhey and Blackley and a Union Jack (OK, Flag if you insist) from a bridge on the clockwise M60 around after J22.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,547
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    The problem is that most of the people who support fracking have very little idea of what is involved. And, I'm not talking about environmental impact or net zero. I'm talking about the fact that, in the US, it is done in massive areas with no people. No one is fracking in the suburbs or outside pretty villages, they're fracking on massive empty ranches with a population density of fuck all.

    The UK isn't like that. The UK - even the less populated bits - still has lots of people.

    And fracking is fundamentally very land intensive. It involves setting up a drill pad, drilling horizontal wells, then bringing in massive diesel pumps to do hydraulic fracturing of the rock,

    To make that all economic you need to run the gear 24 hours a day. If you're only doing it 8 hours a day, it costs 3x as much to produce. And there aren't many* communities in the UK that will want drilling and fracking equipment running 24/7 for six months in their local environs.

    Finally: we've drilled some wells. And the results have not been great. There's not been a single well by iGas or one of the other players in this space that's encountered commercial quantities of gas. Now, it may be that -with time- that can be overcome. It took a long while to get some of the US shale plays producing economically. But if you put the two things together: (1) much higher costs, because the UK is a dense country, and (2) the lack of any formations that are clearly economically viable, and you can see why iGas and Caudrilla lost 99% of their value before there were any bans on fracking in the UK.

    Now, that doesn't mean there aren't really interesting projects that could be economically viable. I quite like in-situ gassification of old coalfields under the sea. (And which, by the way, might be remarkably economic as well as not being anywhere near as disruptive.)

    But just saying 'fracking' demonstrates you really don't know very much about energy production.

    * Well, any
    Thanks for the interesting information. I always assume you're right on these subjects.
    Robert has lost serious money on past fracking investments (he tells us), so he probably knows a fair amount about what works and what doesn’t.
    The smaller scale oil & gas business has always been a shark pool.

    The majors are more like Livyatan
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,695
    Pro_Rata said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Saw a few on a street in Failsworth (is there a less euphonious place name in Britain ?), also on lampposts.
    I must've been one arterial around from you the other day - a couple between Harpurhey and Blackley and a Union Jack (OK, Flag if you insist) from a bridge on the clockwise M60 around after J22.
    Just the one at a medieval encampment in Kenilworth Castle:



    Puts to shame those milksop reactionaries who'd be content with a return to the 1950s.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,525
    Gov. JB Pritzker: "Mr President, do not come to Chigaco"

    https://x.com/CalltoActivism/status/1960082446634168419
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,566

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    You would be wrong.
    It would be very good. For some people.

    The path to profit from dry wells is quite simple.

    1) you setup a new company to drill a well/frack a site.
    2) you get a ton of investors - indeed your share of the project is quite small.
    3) you need a company to actually drill the well. As luck would have it, you own just such a company.
    4) the holes are all dry. The company doing the exploration goes bankrupt. You are not entirely downcast, however. Unlike your investors.

    So you take the profits from your drilling company and buy the rights to look for oil/gas on a piece of land…
    My dissillusionment with the whole oil industry started early in my career when I realised that there were instances where it was far better for company directors if we didn't find any oil than if we did. Very much smacked of an industry version of The Producers.
    I'm curious about one thing with the whole fracking business: in the UK is it remotely even comparably economic to do it when there is clearly still oil and gas in the North Sea and there is the actual infrastructure there and the skills to just drill it out?

    Norway announced last week they had discovered a whole ton more in one their zones thanks to improved discovery tech iirc.
    Answer to your fracking question is no. It isn't. Even the guy who was running the project up outside Blackpool made that admission a couple of years ago.

    Norway are going full on with exploration and expanding their oil and gas industry. Equinor - the rebranded Statoil - came out to the COSL Innovator where I was working in May to visit the crew as the rig was moving to Norway after the end of the UK contract. Their purpose was to reassure the Britsh crew that they would not be replaced by Norwegians. The reason was simple. They don't have the people to replace them. They are desperately short of rigs and experienced crews not least because they have plans to drill 120 wells over the next 2 years. That is just one company. In the UK we probably won't drill 10 wells in that same period.

    The Norwegian Government has also given permssion for 42 E&A wells this year. The net cash flow to the Norwegian Government for Oil and Gas revenues in 2025 is predicted at 698 billion NOK - about £50 billion. And no small amount of that will be paid by the British taxpayer to import OIl and Gas from Norway as we are not producing it ourselves - and yes it is there. We have just made a political decision not to extract it.
    While the Norwegians expand their oil and gas industry, we continue to self-flagellate our industry.
    Yep. I was lucky and got a good offer consulting in shutting down oil fields. Most of my colleagues are either retiring or moving overseas. It is not just Norway, the whole of the rest of the world is expanding O&G production. Even New Zealand has reversed its idiotic decision to end drilling.

    I am all for ending demand. Hydrocarbons are way to valuable a commodity to be burning - something that has been the case my whole career. So deal with demand, and let production shrink to match the market. The alterative is we just end up paying higher prices for oil and gas imports from other countries. Many of which (not Norway of course) have environmental and safety standards that would make Chernobyl look good.
    I think that is the key point - we need to make a distinction between consumption and production. This is my take (and I'm quite open to persuasion):

    1) We desperately need to get off gas as quickly as possible, because we have rapidly declining domestic production that we can't do anything about, already rely massively on imports, and it exposes us to global gas shocks. It's a huge security issue.

    2) Oil is more complicated. Not all oil is the same; most of our production is exported, most of our consumption is imported*. It has the same security flaws as gas, but we still have significant reserves and therefore there is a strong economic rationale to increase production relative to our current path (though in even the most positive scenario production will halve by about 2035*). From a security POV, I think it's the same as gas ultimately and therefore we should reduce consumption as quickly as possible regardless of what happens with production.

    The difficulty with 2) is how do we justify it internationally given our take on climate change. For me, I think it's to keep our net exports of oil at zero (which would be a relative increase in production) even as we reduce our consumption and therefore imports over time.

    *let me know if either of these is incorrect.
    2) we justify this by linking climate change to the burning of oil and gas, rather than its production.

    We can produce as much as we profitably can. That's no issue for climate. Its how much we consume via burning it that is the problem.

    If we have net exports, then thats good news for our balance of trade and not an environmental concern.
    UK and Norwegian oil is some of the highest quality in the world. It is used for lubricants and a million* other products. This is why it is too good to burn but also why we should not be shuttingdown production.

    *excuse the hyperbole
    Richard, would it be conceivable that you and like minded colleagues could preserve detailed records of what steps you are having to take now, so that at some future date those steps may be retraced and undone with the minimum of delay and cost to the country?

    Rather like those brave museum curators, in Greece, who reburied the classical treasures to keep them from falling into German hands.
    Sadly that is not practical. We are plugging wells, cutting casings and removing wellheads. The aim is to ensure that they can never leak after we have abandoned them. It is all rock mechanics and basic physics but if we do our job right then even earthquakes would not allow these wells to leak. The downside of that is that we will never be able to go back and start those fields again. We will have all the records but in effect we are the ones destroying the industry in the name of long term environmental protection.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,699

    Liverpool did not deserve 3 points.

    Got them though.

    In related news, I'm officially fearful for West Ham's chances this season :(
  • CookieCookie Posts: 15,876
    Pro_Rata said:

    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Saw a few on a street in Failsworth (is there a less euphonious place name in Britain ?), also on lampposts.
    I must've been one arterial around from you the other day - a couple between Harpurhey and Blackley and a Union Jack (OK, Flag if you insist) from a bridge on the clockwise M60 around after J22.
    Flags roughly every third motorway bridge on the M60/M61/M6/M55 route from South Manxhester to Blackpool.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,566
    edited August 25

    Liverpool did not deserve 3 points.

    Got them though.

    In related news, I'm officially fearful for West Ham's chances this season :(
    Yep me too. We should never have got rid of Moyes. It has been downhill all the way since then. I am fully expecting us to be relegated at the end of this season.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,525
    JB Pritzker:

    "If you hurt my people, nothing will stop me — not time or political circumstance — from making sure you face justice under our constitutional rule of law."
  • ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 223

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    You would be wrong.
    It would be very good. For some people.

    The path to profit from dry wells is quite simple.

    1) you setup a new company to drill a well/frack a site.
    2) you get a ton of investors - indeed your share of the project is quite small.
    3) you need a company to actually drill the well. As luck would have it, you own just such a company.
    4) the holes are all dry. The company doing the exploration goes bankrupt. You are not entirely downcast, however. Unlike your investors.

    So you take the profits from your drilling company and buy the rights to look for oil/gas on a piece of land…
    My dissillusionment with the whole oil industry started early in my career when I realised that there were instances where it was far better for company directors if we didn't find any oil than if we did. Very much smacked of an industry version of The Producers.
    I'm curious about one thing with the whole fracking business: in the UK is it remotely even comparably economic to do it when there is clearly still oil and gas in the North Sea and there is the actual infrastructure there and the skills to just drill it out?

    Norway announced last week they had discovered a whole ton more in one their zones thanks to improved discovery tech iirc.
    Answer to your fracking question is no. It isn't. Even the guy who was running the project up outside Blackpool made that admission a couple of years ago.

    Norway are going full on with exploration and expanding their oil and gas industry. Equinor - the rebranded Statoil - came out to the COSL Innovator where I was working in May to visit the crew as the rig was moving to Norway after the end of the UK contract. Their purpose was to reassure the Britsh crew that they would not be replaced by Norwegians. The reason was simple. They don't have the people to replace them. They are desperately short of rigs and experienced crews not least because they have plans to drill 120 wells over the next 2 years. That is just one company. In the UK we probably won't drill 10 wells in that same period.

    The Norwegian Government has also given permssion for 42 E&A wells this year. The net cash flow to the Norwegian Government for Oil and Gas revenues in 2025 is predicted at 698 billion NOK - about £50 billion. And no small amount of that will be paid by the British taxpayer to import OIl and Gas from Norway as we are not producing it ourselves - and yes it is there. We have just made a political decision not to extract it.
    While the Norwegians expand their oil and gas industry, we continue to self-flagellate our industry.
    Yep. I was lucky and got a good offer consulting in shutting down oil fields. Most of my colleagues are either retiring or moving overseas. It is not just Norway, the whole of the rest of the world is expanding O&G production. Even New Zealand has reversed its idiotic decision to end drilling.

    I am all for ending demand. Hydrocarbons are way to valuable a commodity to be burning - something that has been the case my whole career. So deal with demand, and let production shrink to match the market. The alterative is we just end up paying higher prices for oil and gas imports from other countries. Many of which (not Norway of course) have environmental and safety standards that would make Chernobyl look good.
    I think that is the key point - we need to make a distinction between consumption and production. This is my take (and I'm quite open to persuasion):

    1) We desperately need to get off gas as quickly as possible, because we have rapidly declining domestic production that we can't do anything about, already rely massively on imports, and it exposes us to global gas shocks. It's a huge security issue.

    2) Oil is more complicated. Not all oil is the same; most of our production is exported, most of our consumption is imported*. It has the same security flaws as gas, but we still have significant reserves and therefore there is a strong economic rationale to increase production relative to our current path (though in even the most positive scenario production will halve by about 2035*). From a security POV, I think it's the same as gas ultimately and therefore we should reduce consumption as quickly as possible regardless of what happens with production.

    The difficulty with 2) is how do we justify it internationally given our take on climate change. For me, I think it's to keep our net exports of oil at zero (which would be a relative increase in production) even as we reduce our consumption and therefore imports over time.

    *let me know if either of these is incorrect.
    2) we justify this by linking climate change to the burning of oil and gas, rather than its production.

    We can produce as much as we profitably can. That's no issue for climate. Its how much we consume via burning it that is the problem.

    If we have net exports, then thats good news for our balance of trade and not an environmental concern.
    UK and Norwegian oil is some of the highest quality in the world. It is used for lubricants and a million* other products. This is why it is too good to burn but also why we should not be shuttingdown production.

    *excuse the hyperbole
    Richard, would it be conceivable that you and like minded colleagues could preserve detailed records of what steps you are having to take now, so that at some future date those steps may be retraced and undone with the minimum of delay and cost to the country?

    Rather like those brave museum curators, in Greece, who reburied the classical treasures to keep them from falling into German hands.
    Sadly that is not practical. We are plugging wells, cutting casings and removing wellheads. The aim is to ensure that they can never leak after we have abandoned them. It is all rock mechanics and basic physics but if we do our job right then even earthquakes would not allow these wells to leak. The downside of that is that we will never be able to go back and start those fields again. We will have all the records but in effect we are the ones destroying the industry in the name of long term environmental protection.
    Thanks Richard, we must be literally mad. National self harm for the vanity of a Ed Milliband and his fellow travellers.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    That S Korea meeting...

    Trump: "The whole issue of the women. Comfort women. Very specifically. We talked and that was a very big problem for Korea, not for Japan. Japan was, wanted to go, they want to get on. But Korea was very stuck on that."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1960032986969063770
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    "I know more about magnets than anyone else in the world..."

    Trump: "China intelligently went in and they sort of took a monopoly of the world's magnets. Nobody needed magnets until they convinced everybody 20 years ago, 'let's all do magnets.' There were many other ways that the world could have gone ... we're heavily into the world of magnets now."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1960028394554319314
  • Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    You would be wrong.
    It would be very good. For some people.

    The path to profit from dry wells is quite simple.

    1) you setup a new company to drill a well/frack a site.
    2) you get a ton of investors - indeed your share of the project is quite small.
    3) you need a company to actually drill the well. As luck would have it, you own just such a company.
    4) the holes are all dry. The company doing the exploration goes bankrupt. You are not entirely downcast, however. Unlike your investors.

    So you take the profits from your drilling company and buy the rights to look for oil/gas on a piece of land…
    My dissillusionment with the whole oil industry started early in my career when I realised that there were instances where it was far better for company directors if we didn't find any oil than if we did. Very much smacked of an industry version of The Producers.
    I'm curious about one thing with the whole fracking business: in the UK is it remotely even comparably economic to do it when there is clearly still oil and gas in the North Sea and there is the actual infrastructure there and the skills to just drill it out?

    Norway announced last week they had discovered a whole ton more in one their zones thanks to improved discovery tech iirc.
    Answer to your fracking question is no. It isn't. Even the guy who was running the project up outside Blackpool made that admission a couple of years ago.

    Norway are going full on with exploration and expanding their oil and gas industry. Equinor - the rebranded Statoil - came out to the COSL Innovator where I was working in May to visit the crew as the rig was moving to Norway after the end of the UK contract. Their purpose was to reassure the Britsh crew that they would not be replaced by Norwegians. The reason was simple. They don't have the people to replace them. They are desperately short of rigs and experienced crews not least because they have plans to drill 120 wells over the next 2 years. That is just one company. In the UK we probably won't drill 10 wells in that same period.

    The Norwegian Government has also given permssion for 42 E&A wells this year. The net cash flow to the Norwegian Government for Oil and Gas revenues in 2025 is predicted at 698 billion NOK - about £50 billion. And no small amount of that will be paid by the British taxpayer to import OIl and Gas from Norway as we are not producing it ourselves - and yes it is there. We have just made a political decision not to extract it.
    While the Norwegians expand their oil and gas industry, we continue to self-flagellate our industry.
    Yep. I was lucky and got a good offer consulting in shutting down oil fields. Most of my colleagues are either retiring or moving overseas. It is not just Norway, the whole of the rest of the world is expanding O&G production. Even New Zealand has reversed its idiotic decision to end drilling.

    I am all for ending demand. Hydrocarbons are way to valuable a commodity to be burning - something that has been the case my whole career. So deal with demand, and let production shrink to match the market. The alterative is we just end up paying higher prices for oil and gas imports from other countries. Many of which (not Norway of course) have environmental and safety standards that would make Chernobyl look good.
    I think that is the key point - we need to make a distinction between consumption and production. This is my take (and I'm quite open to persuasion):

    1) We desperately need to get off gas as quickly as possible, because we have rapidly declining domestic production that we can't do anything about, already rely massively on imports, and it exposes us to global gas shocks. It's a huge security issue.

    2) Oil is more complicated. Not all oil is the same; most of our production is exported, most of our consumption is imported*. It has the same security flaws as gas, but we still have significant reserves and therefore there is a strong economic rationale to increase production relative to our current path (though in even the most positive scenario production will halve by about 2035*). From a security POV, I think it's the same as gas ultimately and therefore we should reduce consumption as quickly as possible regardless of what happens with production.

    The difficulty with 2) is how do we justify it internationally given our take on climate change. For me, I think it's to keep our net exports of oil at zero (which would be a relative increase in production) even as we reduce our consumption and therefore imports over time.

    *let me know if either of these is incorrect.
    2) we justify this by linking climate change to the burning of oil and gas, rather than its production.

    We can produce as much as we profitably can. That's no issue for climate. Its how much we consume via burning it that is the problem.

    If we have net exports, then thats good news for our balance of trade and not an environmental concern.
    UK and Norwegian oil is some of the highest quality in the world. It is used for lubricants and a million* other products. This is why it is too good to burn but also why we should not be shuttingdown production.

    *excuse the hyperbole
    Richard, would it be conceivable that you and like minded colleagues could preserve detailed records of what steps you are having to take now, so that at some future date those steps may be retraced and undone with the minimum of delay and cost to the country?

    Rather like those brave museum curators, in Greece, who reburied the classical treasures to keep them from falling into German hands.
    Sadly that is not practical. We are plugging wells, cutting casings and removing wellheads. The aim is to ensure that they can never leak after we have abandoned them. It is all rock mechanics and basic physics but if we do our job right then even earthquakes would not allow these wells to leak. The downside of that is that we will never be able to go back and start those fields again. We will have all the records but in effect we are the ones destroying the industry in the name of long term environmental protection.
    Thanks Richard, we must be literally mad. National self harm for the vanity of a Ed Milliband and his fellow travellers.
    That's not Labour's policy though, so there must be more to it than that. Labour said that they wanted to halt the issue of new exploration licences, not revoke existing licences or close existing fields.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 33,566

    Eabhal said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    You would be wrong.
    It would be very good. For some people.

    The path to profit from dry wells is quite simple.

    1) you setup a new company to drill a well/frack a site.
    2) you get a ton of investors - indeed your share of the project is quite small.
    3) you need a company to actually drill the well. As luck would have it, you own just such a company.
    4) the holes are all dry. The company doing the exploration goes bankrupt. You are not entirely downcast, however. Unlike your investors.

    So you take the profits from your drilling company and buy the rights to look for oil/gas on a piece of land…
    My dissillusionment with the whole oil industry started early in my career when I realised that there were instances where it was far better for company directors if we didn't find any oil than if we did. Very much smacked of an industry version of The Producers.
    I'm curious about one thing with the whole fracking business: in the UK is it remotely even comparably economic to do it when there is clearly still oil and gas in the North Sea and there is the actual infrastructure there and the skills to just drill it out?

    Norway announced last week they had discovered a whole ton more in one their zones thanks to improved discovery tech iirc.
    Answer to your fracking question is no. It isn't. Even the guy who was running the project up outside Blackpool made that admission a couple of years ago.

    Norway are going full on with exploration and expanding their oil and gas industry. Equinor - the rebranded Statoil - came out to the COSL Innovator where I was working in May to visit the crew as the rig was moving to Norway after the end of the UK contract. Their purpose was to reassure the Britsh crew that they would not be replaced by Norwegians. The reason was simple. They don't have the people to replace them. They are desperately short of rigs and experienced crews not least because they have plans to drill 120 wells over the next 2 years. That is just one company. In the UK we probably won't drill 10 wells in that same period.

    The Norwegian Government has also given permssion for 42 E&A wells this year. The net cash flow to the Norwegian Government for Oil and Gas revenues in 2025 is predicted at 698 billion NOK - about £50 billion. And no small amount of that will be paid by the British taxpayer to import OIl and Gas from Norway as we are not producing it ourselves - and yes it is there. We have just made a political decision not to extract it.
    While the Norwegians expand their oil and gas industry, we continue to self-flagellate our industry.
    Yep. I was lucky and got a good offer consulting in shutting down oil fields. Most of my colleagues are either retiring or moving overseas. It is not just Norway, the whole of the rest of the world is expanding O&G production. Even New Zealand has reversed its idiotic decision to end drilling.

    I am all for ending demand. Hydrocarbons are way to valuable a commodity to be burning - something that has been the case my whole career. So deal with demand, and let production shrink to match the market. The alterative is we just end up paying higher prices for oil and gas imports from other countries. Many of which (not Norway of course) have environmental and safety standards that would make Chernobyl look good.
    I think that is the key point - we need to make a distinction between consumption and production. This is my take (and I'm quite open to persuasion):

    1) We desperately need to get off gas as quickly as possible, because we have rapidly declining domestic production that we can't do anything about, already rely massively on imports, and it exposes us to global gas shocks. It's a huge security issue.

    2) Oil is more complicated. Not all oil is the same; most of our production is exported, most of our consumption is imported*. It has the same security flaws as gas, but we still have significant reserves and therefore there is a strong economic rationale to increase production relative to our current path (though in even the most positive scenario production will halve by about 2035*). From a security POV, I think it's the same as gas ultimately and therefore we should reduce consumption as quickly as possible regardless of what happens with production.

    The difficulty with 2) is how do we justify it internationally given our take on climate change. For me, I think it's to keep our net exports of oil at zero (which would be a relative increase in production) even as we reduce our consumption and therefore imports over time.

    *let me know if either of these is incorrect.
    2) we justify this by linking climate change to the burning of oil and gas, rather than its production.

    We can produce as much as we profitably can. That's no issue for climate. Its how much we consume via burning it that is the problem.

    If we have net exports, then thats good news for our balance of trade and not an environmental concern.
    UK and Norwegian oil is some of the highest quality in the world. It is used for lubricants and a million* other products. This is why it is too good to burn but also why we should not be shuttingdown production.

    *excuse the hyperbole
    Richard, would it be conceivable that you and like minded colleagues could preserve detailed records of what steps you are having to take now, so that at some future date those steps may be retraced and undone with the minimum of delay and cost to the country?

    Rather like those brave museum curators, in Greece, who reburied the classical treasures to keep them from falling into German hands.
    Sadly that is not practical. We are plugging wells, cutting casings and removing wellheads. The aim is to ensure that they can never leak after we have abandoned them. It is all rock mechanics and basic physics but if we do our job right then even earthquakes would not allow these wells to leak. The downside of that is that we will never be able to go back and start those fields again. We will have all the records but in effect we are the ones destroying the industry in the name of long term environmental protection.
    Thanks Richard, we must be literally mad. National self harm for the vanity of a Ed Milliband and his fellow travellers.
    That's not Labour's policy though, so there must be more to it than that. Labour said that they wanted to halt the issue of new exploration licences, not revoke existing licences or close existing fields.
    It's the same thing practically. Add the idiotic taxation policies (from both parties) and you make the UK the most unattractive place in the world to produce oil and gas.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,395
    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    Noted cultural icon, the bus wanker:

    https://inbetweeners.fandom.com/wiki/"Bus_wankers!"

    Hence briefcase wanker, bike wanker etc, a longstanding phrase amongst the yoof.

    Recently, they have become more extreme: bus nonce, briefcase nonce, bike nonce.

    The wanker doesn't literally wank, the nonce doesn't literally nonce. It's a verbal formula and no more.

    A dickhead doesn't have a dick on his head.

    But calling someone a nonce isn't like calling someone a dickhead or a wanker. People have been killed because they've been wrongly thought of as a paedophile. You can't use it as an insult like that.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,619
    rcs1000 said:

    Eabhal said:

    viewcode said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    You would be wrong.
    It would be very good. For some people.

    The path to profit from dry wells is quite simple.

    1) you setup a new company to drill a well/frack a site.
    2) you get a ton of investors - indeed your share of the project is quite small.
    3) you need a company to actually drill the well. As luck would have it, you own just such a company.
    4) the holes are all dry. The company doing the exploration goes bankrupt. You are not entirely downcast, however. Unlike your investors.

    So you take the profits from your drilling company and buy the rights to look for oil/gas on a piece of land…
    My dissillusionment with the whole oil industry started early in my career when I realised that there were instances where it was far better for company directors if we didn't find any oil than if we did. Very much smacked of an industry version of The Producers.
    I'm curious about one thing with the whole fracking business: in the UK is it remotely even comparably economic to do it when there is clearly still oil and gas in the North Sea and there is the actual infrastructure there and the skills to just drill it out?

    Norway announced last week they had discovered a whole ton more in one their zones thanks to improved discovery tech iirc.
    Answer to your fracking question is no. It isn't. Even the guy who was running the project up outside Blackpool made that admission a couple of years ago.

    Norway are going full on with exploration and expanding their oil and gas industry. Equinor - the rebranded Statoil - came out to the COSL Innovator where I was working in May to visit the crew as the rig was moving to Norway after the end of the UK contract. Their purpose was to reassure the Britsh crew that they would not be replaced by Norwegians. The reason was simple. They don't have the people to replace them. They are desperately short of rigs and experienced crews not least because they have plans to drill 120 wells over the next 2 years. That is just one company. In the UK we probably won't drill 10 wells in that same period.

    The Norwegian Government has also given permssion for 42 E&A wells this year. The net cash flow to the Norwegian Government for Oil and Gas revenues in 2025 is predicted at 698 billion NOK - about £50 billion. And no small amount of that will be paid by the British taxpayer to import OIl and Gas from Norway as we are not producing it ourselves - and yes it is there. We have just made a political decision not to extract it.
    Are our remaining reserves potentially of a similar magnitude ?
    In the North Sea yes. The Norwegians also have the Norwegian and Barents Sea which bumps up their reserves a lot. We have West of Shetlands which helps with ours a lot as well. But we are continually finding new ways both to improve extraction of existing fields and find new reserves.
    In which case, is Ed Milliband not in danger of beqeathing Nigel Farrage a North Sea funded boom similar to the one Mrs T found so helpful?
    Sadly not. The Oil companies are pulling out and are shutting down the fields, removing infrastructure and properly abandoning wells. That is my job. Sealing the 640 odd wells on the Forties field to ensure they will not leak for the next several thousand years or more.

    By the time Miliband is driven from power much of the infrastructure will be gone. Even companies who want to carry on are being prevented from doing so because the GIvernment is allowing majrs to remove pipeline and distribution hubs. Last week's decision to allow Total to shut down the Gryphon FPSO which will also mean the end for a series of other companies who transport their oil through the hub. They will have to shut down and abandon their fields as well even though they are still economic.
    This is...pretty catastrophic really. Is there nobody in Government who reads PB or generally knows what is going on in government? Or is it all metropolitan elite headlines and podcasts? Rarely has there been a Government minister who I would be happy to see drop dead but Miliband really is a dumb [redacted word]
    He just seems utterly incapable of understanding we will still need to burn gas for a long time yet under any kind of realistic Net Zero plan.

    So why import it?
    There is no scenario where we can cease importing gas. Even if maximise production it will fall by over 50% by 2035.

    We already import 66% of our gas. That proportion will increase to over 80% in the next decade unless we cut our consumption.
    With all due respect, so what?

    We need to import energy. All energy prices are interlinked: when Ukraine was invaded you were just as badly hit if you imported coal or gas. Indeed, you were just as badly hit if you didn't import energy at all, because the price of energy still shot through the roof. Australia, energy self sufficient, massive coal reserves, etc., saw its electricity prices spike just as much from the invasion as our or Germany's.

    The only places which didn't see prices spike were countries that had long-term renewables contracts on fixed prices: Switzerland with hydro and Spain/Portugal with wind.

    We will be importing energy until the day comes when solar and batteries are so cheap that the cost of generating in the UK at low levels of efficiency is such that it is cheaper than the transport costs of bringing it from somewhere cheaper. And - by the way - that day is coming. It'll just be a while.

    Until that day, gas outcompetes everything.
    There wasn't really a "so what" - I just think the "stop imports" argument doesn't work at all for this, nor the national security one.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,470
    rcs1000 said: "And there aren't many* communities in the UK that will want drilling and fracking equipment running 24/7 for six months in their local environs."

    Just tell the locals it's a new pop group.

    (I'm a little grumpy about such things, since this summer the local concerts have been loud enough to make me wonder whether the city council was profiting from the damage it was causing to so many people's hearing.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,547
    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    Noted cultural icon, the bus wanker:

    https://inbetweeners.fandom.com/wiki/"Bus_wankers!"

    Hence briefcase wanker, bike wanker etc, a longstanding phrase amongst the yoof.

    Recently, they have become more extreme: bus nonce, briefcase nonce, bike nonce.

    The wanker doesn't literally wank, the nonce doesn't literally nonce. It's a verbal formula and no more.

    A dickhead doesn't have a dick on his head.

    But calling someone a nonce isn't like calling someone a dickhead or a wanker. People have been killed because they've been wrongly thought of as a paedophile. You can't use it as an insult like that.
    Has anybody told Tom “Paedofinder General” Watson?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,619
    No, that's in America. It's harming the European business building it however.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 4,128
    Nigelb said:

    "I know more about magnets than anyone else in the world..."

    Trump: "China intelligently went in and they sort of took a monopoly of the world's magnets. Nobody needed magnets until they convinced everybody 20 years ago, 'let's all do magnets.' There were many other ways that the world could have gone ... we're heavily into the world of magnets now."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1960028394554319314

    You should see his fridge.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,974
    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    Noted cultural icon, the bus wanker:

    https://inbetweeners.fandom.com/wiki/"Bus_wankers!"

    Hence briefcase wanker, bike wanker etc, a longstanding phrase amongst the yoof.

    Recently, they have become more extreme: bus nonce, briefcase nonce, bike nonce.

    The wanker doesn't literally wank, the nonce doesn't literally nonce. It's a verbal formula and no more.

    A dickhead doesn't have a dick on his head.

    But calling someone a nonce isn't like calling someone a dickhead or a wanker. People have been killed because they've been wrongly thought of as a paedophile. You can't use it as an insult like that.
    Bullshit. Language evolved all the time. People calling someone a bike nonce is suggesting a lot about how they are as cyclists (entitled, aggressive, rule breaking etc), not suggesting that they are an actual nonce.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,178
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    The problem is that most of the people who support fracking have very little idea of what is involved. And, I'm not talking about environmental impact or net zero. I'm talking about the fact that, in the US, it is done in massive areas with no people. No one is fracking in the suburbs or outside pretty villages, they're fracking on massive empty ranches with a population density of fuck all.

    The UK isn't like that. The UK - even the less populated bits - still has lots of people.

    And fracking is fundamentally very land intensive. It involves setting up a drill pad, drilling horizontal wells, then bringing in massive diesel pumps to do hydraulic fracturing of the rock,

    To make that all economic you need to run the gear 24 hours a day. If you're only doing it 8 hours a day, it costs 3x as much to produce. And there aren't many* communities in the UK that will want drilling and fracking equipment running 24/7 for six months in their local environs.

    Finally: we've drilled some wells. And the results have not been great. There's not been a single well by iGas or one of the other players in this space that's encountered commercial quantities of gas. Now, it may be that -with time- that can be overcome. It took a long while to get some of the US shale plays producing economically. But if you put the two things together: (1) much higher costs, because the UK is a dense country, and (2) the lack of any formations that are clearly economically viable, and you can see why iGas and Caudrilla lost 99% of their value before there were any bans on fracking in the UK.

    Now, that doesn't mean there aren't really interesting projects that could be economically viable. I quite like in-situ gassification of old coalfields under the sea. (And which, by the way, might be remarkably economic as well as not being anywhere near as disruptive.)

    But just saying 'fracking' demonstrates you really don't know very much about energy production.

    * Well, any
    Thanks for the interesting information. I always assume you're right on these subjects.
    Robert has lost serious money on past fracking investments (he tells us), so he probably knows a fair amount about what works and what doesn’t.
    You learn more from your failures than your successes! (And for the record, I did pretty well for my customers over the years.)
  • glwglw Posts: 10,489
    Nigelb said:

    "I know more about magnets than anyone else in the world..."

    Trump: "China intelligently went in and they sort of took a monopoly of the world's magnets. Nobody needed magnets until they convinced everybody 20 years ago, 'let's all do magnets.' There were many other ways that the world could have gone ... we're heavily into the world of magnets now."
    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1960028394554319314

    I would love to see a journalist actually call him out to explain the stuff he claims to be an expert on. I suspect that in most cases he would demonstrate total ignorance or a child-like understanding.

    The day we never have to hear what Trump has said or done ever again can not come soon enough.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    Interesting thread about how Russia is screwing up logistics for its own front lines.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1959873135727276443
    Russian soldiers face ever more draconian rules in occupied Ukraine, apparently imposed to crack down on desertions and misconduct by soldiers. Violations now effectively attract a death penalty. The soldiers, not surprisingly, aren't happy about this...

  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,619

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    Noted cultural icon, the bus wanker:

    https://inbetweeners.fandom.com/wiki/"Bus_wankers!"

    Hence briefcase wanker, bike wanker etc, a longstanding phrase amongst the yoof.

    Recently, they have become more extreme: bus nonce, briefcase nonce, bike nonce.

    The wanker doesn't literally wank, the nonce doesn't literally nonce. It's a verbal formula and no more.

    A dickhead doesn't have a dick on his head.

    But calling someone a nonce isn't like calling someone a dickhead or a wanker. People have been killed because they've been wrongly thought of as a paedophile. You can't use it as an insult like that.
    Bullshit. Language evolved all the time. People calling someone a bike nonce is suggesting a lot about how they are as cyclists (entitled, aggressive, rule breaking etc), not suggesting that they are an actual nonce.
    You should let Joey Barton know, he's down £75k for using that phrase.
  • isamisam Posts: 42,361
    Britain will face social unrest and a perception of a two-tier society if the government pushes ahead with plans to come up with a formal definition of Islamophobia, the head of a new campaign group has warned.

    Angela Rayner, the deputy prime minister, has set up a working group to provide recommendations to the government on “appropriate and sensitive language” to describe “unacceptable treatment, prejudice and discrimination against Muslims”.

    Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of the Tell Mama organisation which monitors anti-Muslim hate incidents, is leading a campaign against the definition, which he believes risks having a “chilling effect” on free speech and creating a “blasphemy law by the back door”. The campaign is called Keep the Law Equal.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/7490e71f-252d-44b2-a853-6102d6072436?shareToken=51635cdfa39d7039b74b62fdfece6606
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,525
    Nigelb said:

    Interesting thread about how Russia is screwing up logistics for its own front lines.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1959873135727276443
    Russian soldiers face ever more draconian rules in occupied Ukraine, apparently imposed to crack down on desertions and misconduct by soldiers. Violations now effectively attract a death penalty. The soldiers, not surprisingly, aren't happy about this...

    They've already been given the death penalty by being sent to the front.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585
    isam said:

    Britain will face social unrest and a perception of a two-tier society if the government pushes ahead with plans to come up with a formal definition of Islamophobia, the head of a new campaign group has warned.

    Angela Rayner, the deputy prime minister, has set up a working group to provide recommendations to the government on “appropriate and sensitive language” to describe “unacceptable treatment, prejudice and discrimination against Muslims”.

    Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of the Tell Mama organisation which monitors anti-Muslim hate incidents, is leading a campaign against the definition, which he believes risks having a “chilling effect” on free speech and creating a “blasphemy law by the back door”. The campaign is called Keep the Law Equal.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/7490e71f-252d-44b2-a853-6102d6072436?shareToken=51635cdfa39d7039b74b62fdfece6606

    This shit is so sinister. They’re trying to make the whole UK like PB
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,803
    edited August 25

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    Noted cultural icon, the bus wanker:

    https://inbetweeners.fandom.com/wiki/"Bus_wankers!"

    Hence briefcase wanker, bike wanker etc, a longstanding phrase amongst the yoof.

    Recently, they have become more extreme: bus nonce, briefcase nonce, bike nonce.

    The wanker doesn't literally wank, the nonce doesn't literally nonce. It's a verbal formula and no more.

    A dickhead doesn't have a dick on his head.

    But calling someone a nonce isn't like calling someone a dickhead or a wanker. People have been killed because they've been wrongly thought of as a paedophile. You can't use it as an insult like that.
    Bullshit. Language evolved all the time. People calling someone a bike nonce is suggesting a lot about how they are as cyclists (entitled, aggressive, rule breaking etc), not suggesting that they are an actual nonce.
    I don't agree

    You might call it a turn of phrase but to me its an attempt to conflate cycling with something that is reviled by society and considered by a fair few to be worthy of death. You're inadvertently doing it, trying to form an association with people who ride bikes and the traits of paedophiles.

    Nonce or wanker I bet I know which you would scrub of your door the fastest.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,525

    Peter Schiff
    @PeterSchiff

    Let me get this straight: the Republican Party now favors concentrating power in one individual to impose protectionist tariffs, centrally plan the economy, nationalize stakes in private businesses, and use the Fed to create massive inflation to monetize soaring budget deficits.

    https://x.com/PeterSchiff/status/1959998106780811400
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,498
    Eabhal said:

    No, that's in America. It's harming the European business building it however.
    I know it's in America but it is causing problems for the finance of the company with knock on effects for its operation in Europe
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585
    Devastating polling for Labour

    “Farage’s intervention comes after a Times poll by YouGov found that 71% of voters believe Keir Starmer is handling the asylum seeker hotel crisis poorly, including a majority of Labour supporters. The findings have intensified pressure on ministers to demonstrate visible progress before a winter in which the use of hotels remains one of the most politically fraught aspects of the small boats crisis”

    Times. ££
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,803
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Britain will face social unrest and a perception of a two-tier society if the government pushes ahead with plans to come up with a formal definition of Islamophobia, the head of a new campaign group has warned.

    Angela Rayner, the deputy prime minister, has set up a working group to provide recommendations to the government on “appropriate and sensitive language” to describe “unacceptable treatment, prejudice and discrimination against Muslims”.

    Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of the Tell Mama organisation which monitors anti-Muslim hate incidents, is leading a campaign against the definition, which he believes risks having a “chilling effect” on free speech and creating a “blasphemy law by the back door”. The campaign is called Keep the Law Equal.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/7490e71f-252d-44b2-a853-6102d6072436?shareToken=51635cdfa39d7039b74b62fdfece6606

    This shit is so sinister. They’re trying to make the whole UK like PB
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-governments-adoption-of-the-ihra-definition-of-antisemitism/

    'The UK Government adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s working definition of anti-Semitism in December 2016. Who else has adopted it and is it legally binding?'
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,699


    Peter Schiff
    @PeterSchiff

    Let me get this straight: the Republican Party now favors concentrating power in one individual to impose protectionist tariffs, centrally plan the economy, nationalize stakes in private businesses, and use the Fed to create massive inflation to monetize soaring budget deficits.

    https://x.com/PeterSchiff/status/1959998106780811400

    Beware REDS under the bed!

    RED is the Republican color[sic] !
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,846

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    Noted cultural icon, the bus wanker:

    https://inbetweeners.fandom.com/wiki/"Bus_wankers!"

    Hence briefcase wanker, bike wanker etc, a longstanding phrase amongst the yoof.

    Recently, they have become more extreme: bus nonce, briefcase nonce, bike nonce.

    The wanker doesn't literally wank, the nonce doesn't literally nonce. It's a verbal formula and no more.

    A dickhead doesn't have a dick on his head.

    But calling someone a nonce isn't like calling someone a dickhead or a wanker. People have been killed because they've been wrongly thought of as a paedophile. You can't use it as an insult like that.
    Bullshit. Language evolved all the time. People calling someone a bike nonce is suggesting a lot about how they are as cyclists (entitled, aggressive, rule breaking etc), not suggesting that they are an actual nonce.
    I don't agree

    You might call it a turn of phrase but to me its an attempt to conflate cycling with something that is reviled by society and considered by a fair few to be worthy of death. You're inadvertently doing it, trying to form an association with people who ride bikes and the traits of paedophiles.

    Nonce or wanker I bet I know which you would scrub of your door the fastest.
    We must be led by the fine example of PBers who are notoriously easy going about people being called racists, Nazis and far right.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,619
    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Britain will face social unrest and a perception of a two-tier society if the government pushes ahead with plans to come up with a formal definition of Islamophobia, the head of a new campaign group has warned.

    Angela Rayner, the deputy prime minister, has set up a working group to provide recommendations to the government on “appropriate and sensitive language” to describe “unacceptable treatment, prejudice and discrimination against Muslims”.

    Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of the Tell Mama organisation which monitors anti-Muslim hate incidents, is leading a campaign against the definition, which he believes risks having a “chilling effect” on free speech and creating a “blasphemy law by the back door”. The campaign is called Keep the Law Equal.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/7490e71f-252d-44b2-a853-6102d6072436?shareToken=51635cdfa39d7039b74b62fdfece6606

    This shit is so sinister. They’re trying to make the whole UK like PB
    You'll love it then.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,547

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting thread about how Russia is screwing up logistics for its own front lines.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1959873135727276443
    Russian soldiers face ever more draconian rules in occupied Ukraine, apparently imposed to crack down on desertions and misconduct by soldiers. Violations now effectively attract a death penalty. The soldiers, not surprisingly, aren't happy about this...

    They've already been given the death penalty by being sent to the front.
    Death... By Chi Chi!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,585

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Britain will face social unrest and a perception of a two-tier society if the government pushes ahead with plans to come up with a formal definition of Islamophobia, the head of a new campaign group has warned.

    Angela Rayner, the deputy prime minister, has set up a working group to provide recommendations to the government on “appropriate and sensitive language” to describe “unacceptable treatment, prejudice and discrimination against Muslims”.

    Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of the Tell Mama organisation which monitors anti-Muslim hate incidents, is leading a campaign against the definition, which he believes risks having a “chilling effect” on free speech and creating a “blasphemy law by the back door”. The campaign is called Keep the Law Equal.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/7490e71f-252d-44b2-a853-6102d6072436?shareToken=51635cdfa39d7039b74b62fdfece6606

    This shit is so sinister. They’re trying to make the whole UK like PB
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-governments-adoption-of-the-ihra-definition-of-antisemitism/

    'The UK Government adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s working definition of anti-Semitism in December 2016. Who else has adopted it and is it legally binding?'
    I would get rid of all limitations on speech (outside of extreme cases like “fire!” in the proverbial theatre)

    Israel definitely weaponises “anti Semitism” to stifle criticism of Israeli policies. Fuck em. Allow it. Israel should not be protected. Radical Muslims are attempting the same tactic with Islamophobia. Fuck them too

    Ditto all so-called hate speech. The N word the P word the Terf words the anti white kaffir words the whatever words. Allow them and cope
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,436
    Eabhal said:

    No, that's in America. It's harming the European business building it however.
    It's certainly caused Orsted some massive financial headaches. Fingers crossed they don't interfere with Sunrise as well.
  • TresTres Posts: 3,006
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Britain will face social unrest and a perception of a two-tier society if the government pushes ahead with plans to come up with a formal definition of Islamophobia, the head of a new campaign group has warned.

    Angela Rayner, the deputy prime minister, has set up a working group to provide recommendations to the government on “appropriate and sensitive language” to describe “unacceptable treatment, prejudice and discrimination against Muslims”.

    Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of the Tell Mama organisation which monitors anti-Muslim hate incidents, is leading a campaign against the definition, which he believes risks having a “chilling effect” on free speech and creating a “blasphemy law by the back door”. The campaign is called Keep the Law Equal.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/7490e71f-252d-44b2-a853-6102d6072436?shareToken=51635cdfa39d7039b74b62fdfece6606

    This shit is so sinister. They’re trying to make the whole UK like PB
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-governments-adoption-of-the-ihra-definition-of-antisemitism/

    'The UK Government adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s working definition of anti-Semitism in December 2016. Who else has adopted it and is it legally binding?'
    I would get rid of all limitations on speech (outside of extreme cases like “fire!” in the proverbial theatre)

    Israel definitely weaponises “anti Semitism” to stifle criticism of Israeli policies. Fuck em. Allow it. Israel should not be protected. Radical Muslims are attempting the same tactic with Islamophobia. Fuck them too

    Ditto all so-called hate speech. The N word the P word the Terf words the anti white kaffir words the whatever words. Allow them and cope
    aww, look at you, just wanting to be an edgy edgy edgy lord but it's not allowed, shame.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,105
    edited August 25
    "How ‘hubs’ conquered Britain
    Louis Elton

    Across Britain, you can’t move for a hub. You want hubs? We got ‘em. Community hubs, growth hubs, tech hubs, equality hubs, mental health hubs — the possibilities are endless. Keir Starmer even wants to call offshore deportation centres “return hubs”."

    https://unherd.com/2025/08/how-hubs-conquered-britain

    I remember the first time I saw the word "hub" being used in this way. It was a 1995 Gatwick Airport slogan — "The Hub Without The Hubbub".
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 37,105
    "Trump says he is firing Fed governor Lisa Cook ‘effective immediately’
    Move against policymaker sharply escalates US president’s attacks on central bank"

    https://www.ft.com/content/0caecc8d-3f48-4088-bc1a-6f4087c331c9
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,448
    As ever, the Guardian is fascinated by American politics and the writer has apparently not realised that here, it is not only Labour but also the Conservatives proving unable to project any vision or coherent philosophy. Whither Democrats? Whither Labour? Whither Conservatives?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,448

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Britain will face social unrest and a perception of a two-tier society if the government pushes ahead with plans to come up with a formal definition of Islamophobia, the head of a new campaign group has warned.

    Angela Rayner, the deputy prime minister, has set up a working group to provide recommendations to the government on “appropriate and sensitive language” to describe “unacceptable treatment, prejudice and discrimination against Muslims”.

    Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of the Tell Mama organisation which monitors anti-Muslim hate incidents, is leading a campaign against the definition, which he believes risks having a “chilling effect” on free speech and creating a “blasphemy law by the back door”. The campaign is called Keep the Law Equal.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/7490e71f-252d-44b2-a853-6102d6072436?shareToken=51635cdfa39d7039b74b62fdfece6606

    This shit is so sinister. They’re trying to make the whole UK like PB
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-governments-adoption-of-the-ihra-definition-of-antisemitism/

    'The UK Government adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s working definition of anti-Semitism in December 2016. Who else has adopted it and is it legally binding?'
    Which other countries wanted to screw Jeremy Corbyn?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,656

    Leon said:

    isam said:

    Britain will face social unrest and a perception of a two-tier society if the government pushes ahead with plans to come up with a formal definition of Islamophobia, the head of a new campaign group has warned.

    Angela Rayner, the deputy prime minister, has set up a working group to provide recommendations to the government on “appropriate and sensitive language” to describe “unacceptable treatment, prejudice and discrimination against Muslims”.

    Fiyaz Mughal, the founder of the Tell Mama organisation which monitors anti-Muslim hate incidents, is leading a campaign against the definition, which he believes risks having a “chilling effect” on free speech and creating a “blasphemy law by the back door”. The campaign is called Keep the Law Equal.


    https://www.thetimes.com/article/7490e71f-252d-44b2-a853-6102d6072436?shareToken=51635cdfa39d7039b74b62fdfece6606

    This shit is so sinister. They’re trying to make the whole UK like PB
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/uk-governments-adoption-of-the-ihra-definition-of-antisemitism/

    'The UK Government adopted the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance’s working definition of anti-Semitism in December 2016. Who else has adopted it and is it legally binding?'
    Which other countries wanted to screw Jeremy Corbyn?
    "As of September 2021, between 29 and 32 countries have adopted the IHRA-WDA, as well as the European Union, and numerous local governments and institutions around the world."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IHRA_definition_of_antisemitism
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    rcs1000 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I have a hunch that fracking in the UK would be a good idea.
    The problem is that most of the people who support fracking have very little idea of what is involved. And, I'm not talking about environmental impact or net zero. I'm talking about the fact that, in the US, it is done in massive areas with no people. No one is fracking in the suburbs or outside pretty villages, they're fracking on massive empty ranches with a population density of fuck all.

    The UK isn't like that. The UK - even the less populated bits - still has lots of people.

    And fracking is fundamentally very land intensive. It involves setting up a drill pad, drilling horizontal wells, then bringing in massive diesel pumps to do hydraulic fracturing of the rock,

    To make that all economic you need to run the gear 24 hours a day. If you're only doing it 8 hours a day, it costs 3x as much to produce. And there aren't many* communities in the UK that will want drilling and fracking equipment running 24/7 for six months in their local environs.

    Finally: we've drilled some wells. And the results have not been great. There's not been a single well by iGas or one of the other players in this space that's encountered commercial quantities of gas. Now, it may be that -with time- that can be overcome. It took a long while to get some of the US shale plays producing economically. But if you put the two things together: (1) much higher costs, because the UK is a dense country, and (2) the lack of any formations that are clearly economically viable, and you can see why iGas and Caudrilla lost 99% of their value before there were any bans on fracking in the UK.

    Now, that doesn't mean there aren't really interesting projects that could be economically viable. I quite like in-situ gassification of old coalfields under the sea. (And which, by the way, might be remarkably economic as well as not being anywhere near as disruptive.)

    But just saying 'fracking' demonstrates you really don't know very much about energy production.

    * Well, any
    Thanks for the interesting information. I always assume you're right on these subjects.
    Robert has lost serious money on past fracking investments (he tells us), so he probably knows a fair amount about what works and what doesn’t.
    You learn more from your failures than your successes! (And for the record, I did pretty well for my customers over the years.)
    Agreed.
    I hope my comment didn't come across as sarcasm; it wasn't intended as such.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting thread about how Russia is screwing up logistics for its own front lines.

    https://x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1959873135727276443
    Russian soldiers face ever more draconian rules in occupied Ukraine, apparently imposed to crack down on desertions and misconduct by soldiers. Violations now effectively attract a death penalty. The soldiers, not surprisingly, aren't happy about this...

    They've already been given the death penalty by being sent to the front.
    That's not really the point.
    The thread goes on to describe how vehicle traffic to and from the front has been severely limited in order to prevent desertions.

    A serious problem for logistics.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    Andy_JS said:

    "Trump says he is firing Fed governor Lisa Cook ‘effective immediately’
    Move against policymaker sharply escalates US president’s attacks on central bank"

    https://www.ft.com/content/0caecc8d-3f48-4088-bc1a-6f4087c331c9

    Just received this statement from Lisa Cook, via her attorney:
    "President Trump purported to fire me 'for cause' when no cause exists under the law, and he has no authority to do so. I will not resign. I will continue to carry out my duties to help the American economy as I have been doing since 2022."

    https://x.com/bencasselman/status/1960175891658498543
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 10,538
    edited August 26
    Andy_JS said:

    "How ‘hubs’ conquered Britain
    Louis Elton

    Across Britain, you can’t move for a hub. You want hubs? We got ‘em. Community hubs, growth hubs, tech hubs, equality hubs, mental health hubs — the possibilities are endless. Keir Starmer even wants to call offshore deportation centres “return hubs”."

    https://unherd.com/2025/08/how-hubs-conquered-britain

    I remember the first time I saw the word "hub" being used in this way. It was a 1995 Gatwick Airport slogan — "The Hub Without The Hubbub".

    Morning PB.

    Hubs ofciourse used to be mainly only in association with stolen hub caps, and the transportation hubs. I may at some point turn my shed into a spiritual hub for the community
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,424
    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Trump says he is firing Fed governor Lisa Cook ‘effective immediately’
    Move against policymaker sharply escalates US president’s attacks on central bank"

    https://www.ft.com/content/0caecc8d-3f48-4088-bc1a-6f4087c331c9

    Just received this statement from Lisa Cook, via her attorney:
    "President Trump purported to fire me 'for cause' when no cause exists under the law, and he has no authority to do so. I will not resign. I will continue to carry out my duties to help the American economy as I have been doing since 2022."

    https://x.com/bencasselman/status/1960175891658498543
    National Guard into the Fed building?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    EICISSECC
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,085

    Eabhal said:

    Eabhal said:

    Fracking is culture war stuff, Reform have an annoying habit of trying to copy/emulate everything Trump does in the belief it's the key to electoral success here - whilst making themselves look nutjobs in the process. We almost certainly shouldn't be doing it, for both environmental and economic reasons, and it will be very unpopular.

    However, it's a consequence of the dogma over Net Zero here - far too many activists want to hang eco-socialism, veganism, quasi-rationing, car-bans and anti-capitalism off the back of it, and make people pay far more for less.

    It's the backlash to the lash.

    I'm right in the middle of that crowd and while you get a small minority with views like that, most people are pretty pragmatic about what path we should take. A lot of the culture war stuff is projection from the right.

    E.g. "car bans" = LTNs and pedestrianisation, both of which have been uncontroversial topics advocated for by both parties for several decades. I've never had a vegan make much of a fuss about their diet other than a polite request, but have certainly come across carnivores driven close to madness by their very existence.

    It's just a lash tbh.
    I agree most people in this country are naturally pragmatic, but of course it's always the other side that "started" the culture war.

    I'm not sure you've met many vegans though. It's the first thing they say, and then they passively aggressively demand you accommodate them - which usually means levelling down to their level, to avoid giving "offence" - which is why they drive many omnivores mad.
    I think you're proving my point. It's basic courtesy to work around what people prefer, their beliefs or whatever as long as it doesn't cost us much to do so. The fact you're so upset about it proves that it's ultimately projection. You're the offended one, the passive aggressive one with all the grumbling.

    It's a bit annoying for me because I eat meat (though not much beef) but I'll accommodate my friends at my BBQs because I'm not an arsehole.
    No, I've attended several industry events and conferences were the meal was "vegan" or "plant-based" with no forewarning - or choice - offered to those who were not. It was usually justified by a statement on 'cruelty-free' or climate-change.

    Vegans exert a strong gravitational pull on the choices of others. Through fear of causing offence to them through serving or others consuming meat organisers and hosts often default to it on the basis that it's something "everyone can eat". This is done seemingly oblivious to the fact that by doing so they've directly made a choice on behalf of everyone else.

    That's not accommodation, that's dictation. Which to me is something only an arsehole does. What drives carnivores (your words) mad is that they are then made out to be the offended ones whilst politely enduring their sanctimony under duress.

    Well, why shouldn't they be? It's a basic courtesy for one's own choices not to affect or influence others.

    That is the test vegans routinely fail.

    If carnivores are now emulating it it's because they've learned that the wheel that squeaks gets the grease, and politely suffering in silence gets you nowhere - and, in fact, concedes ground which vegans are quite happy to take.
    Absolutely!

    As a Carnivore I have never, ever tried to compel anyone to eat meat that doesn’t want to.

    I have had meat free or plant based bullshit spread to me by others trying to make my diet somehow wrong or not catered for.

    The polite thing to do is cater for everyone. Trying to make it all vegan or all carnivore when people of both stripes exist is immoral.
    Are you OK with it being illegal to sell pork products in Israel? (Some shops run by Russian immigrants break the law and pay the fines.)
    It is not illegal to sell pork in Israel. It is illegal to import it, but it is permitted for non-Jews/Muslims (mostly Christians) to rear pigs and sell the meat from them.

    It just doesn’t have a very large market.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,085

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    Noted cultural icon, the bus wanker:

    https://inbetweeners.fandom.com/wiki/"Bus_wankers!"

    Hence briefcase wanker, bike wanker etc, a longstanding phrase amongst the yoof.

    Recently, they have become more extreme: bus nonce, briefcase nonce, bike nonce.

    The wanker doesn't literally wank, the nonce doesn't literally nonce. It's a verbal formula and no more.

    A dickhead doesn't have a dick on his head.

    But calling someone a nonce isn't like calling someone a dickhead or a wanker. People have been killed because they've been wrongly thought of as a paedophile. You can't use it as an insult like that.
    Has anybody told Tom “Paedofinder General” Watson?
    Or indeed Elon ‘Pedo Guy’ Musk?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,214
    The absolute hypocrisy of Trump firing Lisa Cook for alleged mortgage irregularities when he has already been convicted of the same after trial. Once again he looks to extend Presidential power and destroy the independence of the Fed. Once again the risks of not having that independence are that American bond rates will edge higher. Once again this will influence our bond rates which are more closely aligned with the US than with Europe. The man is a genuine menace.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,085
    DavidL said:

    The absolute hypocrisy of Trump firing Lisa Cook for alleged mortgage irregularities when he has already been convicted of the same after trial. Once again he looks to extend Presidential power and destroy the independence of the Fed. Once again the risks of not having that independence are that American bond rates will edge higher. Once again this will influence our bond rates which are more closely aligned with the US than with Europe. The man is a genuine menace.

    This is what he said:

    In light of your deceitful and potentially criminal conduct in a financial matter … I do not have such confidence in your integrity. At a minimum, the conduct at issue exhibits the sort of gross negligence in financial transactions that calls into question your competence and trustworthiness as a financial regulator

    The sheer irony of that statement is probably lost on him.

    I wonder if Leon is still arguing Biden has dementia and Trump doesn’t? He seems to have gone quiet on the subject recently…
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,749
    Battlebus said:

    Nigelb said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Trump says he is firing Fed governor Lisa Cook ‘effective immediately’
    Move against policymaker sharply escalates US president’s attacks on central bank"

    https://www.ft.com/content/0caecc8d-3f48-4088-bc1a-6f4087c331c9

    Just received this statement from Lisa Cook, via her attorney:
    "President Trump purported to fire me 'for cause' when no cause exists under the law, and he has no authority to do so. I will not resign. I will continue to carry out my duties to help the American economy as I have been doing since 2022."

    https://x.com/bencasselman/status/1960175891658498543
    National Guard into the Fed building?
    Trump is going to trigger the market meltdown that is out there, and probably sooner rather than later.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,417
    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    The absolute hypocrisy of Trump firing Lisa Cook for alleged mortgage irregularities when he has already been convicted of the same after trial. Once again he looks to extend Presidential power and destroy the independence of the Fed. Once again the risks of not having that independence are that American bond rates will edge higher. Once again this will influence our bond rates which are more closely aligned with the US than with Europe. The man is a genuine menace.

    This is what he said:

    In light of your deceitful and potentially criminal conduct in a financial matter … I do not have such confidence in your integrity. At a minimum, the conduct at issue exhibits the sort of gross negligence in financial transactions that calls into question your competence and trustworthiness as a financial regulator

    The sheer irony of that statement is probably lost on him.

    I wonder if Leon is still arguing Biden has dementia and Trump doesn’t? He seems to have gone quiet on the subject recently…
    I don’t know about senility.

    I think it’s pretty well proven that he is a psychopath.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,405
    Despite the rampant speculation and widespread shitting on fracking here, even RCS has I believe acknowledged (he can update me if this has changed) that a ban should not be in place. We have safety standards. These companies are not looking for Government subsidy. They should be allowed to operate if they can do so within the law. There is a great deal of hypocrisy and cant over energy infrastructure. We're happy to see landscapes sacrificed to vast pilons and birds sacrificed to windmills because it's all for 'the transition'. But we're against any possible disturbance to the rural idyll to get a profitable means of energy generation up and running.

    Furthermore, I see absolutely zero reason why the UK cannot be a net energy exporter with the ample hydrocarbon, tidal, and other resources we have. I consider RCS's views on the subject to be valuable but not impartial.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,654
    CatMan said:

    carnforth said:

    carnforth said:

    scampi25 said:

    22 August. Scottish Conservative MSP Jeremy Balfour has quit the party saying it has "fallen into the trap of reactionary politics" under Russell Findlay's leadership.

    25 August. It is "understandable" that people are protesting outside of hotels housing asylum seekers, the leader of the Scottish Conservatives has said.
    Russell Findlay insisted that "lawful" demonstrations were "entirely reasonable".

    It seems that Jeremy Balfour is correct.

    What is Findlay saying that you object to??
    Do you think banners with 'Kill 'em all' written on them should be part of lawful demonstrations?
    A Jury thought so last week.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/ricky-jones-labour-councillor-cutting-throats-anti-racism-rally-b2806985.html
    Aye, but what does Scampers think, or you for that matter?
    I'm content with direct calls to violence being illegal. Against a person or a group.

    Indirect nudge nudge wink wink language, I'm less sure of. For example, the judge in the Jeremy Vine case claiming that someone calling him a "bike nonce" was literally calling him a pedophile.
    Well he said he was a nonce, so he *was* calling him a paedophile. I don't see how adding the work "bike" in front changes that?
    It was not just the nonce comments though. Other comments were being made along the lines of ‘contact the Police if he’s by a school’, not necessarily by Barton but his followers.

    Totally unambiguous, untrue and unacceptable.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,040

    Despite the rampant speculation and widespread shitting on fracking here, even RCS has I believe acknowledged (he can update me if this has changed) that a ban should not be in place. We have safety standards. These companies are not looking for Government subsidy. They should be allowed to operate if they can do so within the law. There is a great deal of hypocrisy and cant over energy infrastructure. We're happy to see landscapes sacrificed to vast pilons and birds sacrificed to windmills because it's all for 'the transition'. But we're against any possible disturbance to the rural idyll to get a profitable means of energy generation up and running.

    Furthermore, I see absolutely zero reason why the UK cannot be a net energy exporter with the ample hydrocarbon, tidal, and other resources we have. I consider RCS's views on the subject to be valuable but not impartial.

    If yo are taking about Fracking - get planning permission form the local government and I wouldn’t have a problem with it (beyond the fact I don’t think there are profitable sites in the UK).

    But locals do need a say and given they will say no I aspect that’s something you will try and override.

    Tidal - I think a lot of us haven’t a clue why we haven’t gone for it
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    The absolute hypocrisy of Trump firing Lisa Cook for alleged mortgage irregularities when he has already been convicted of the same after trial. Once again he looks to extend Presidential power and destroy the independence of the Fed. Once again the risks of not having that independence are that American bond rates will edge higher. Once again this will influence our bond rates which are more closely aligned with the US than with Europe. The man is a genuine menace.

    This is what he said:

    In light of your deceitful and potentially criminal conduct in a financial matter … I do not have such confidence in your integrity. At a minimum, the conduct at issue exhibits the sort of gross negligence in financial transactions that calls into question your competence and trustworthiness as a financial regulator

    The sheer irony of that statement is probably lost on him.

    I wonder if Leon is still arguing Biden has dementia and Trump doesn’t? He seems to have gone quiet on the subject recently…
    I don’t know about senility.

    I think it’s pretty well proven that he is a psychopath.
    Bit harsh on Biden.

    He's convinced he's Irish, yes, but I'd call that more delusional.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,708
    @MarcoFoster_

    Actor Robert De Niro on Donald Trump: “It’s all an act. He’s deeply insecure. He’s a malignant narcissist. He’s a socio-psychopath. He’s dangerous. Shame on Republicans that don’t have the balls to go after him. He’s an outright fucking criminal.”

    https://x.com/MarcoFoster_/status/1959978185342480577
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,405
    DavidL said:

    The absolute hypocrisy of Trump firing Lisa Cook for alleged mortgage irregularities when he has already been convicted of the same after trial. Once again he looks to extend Presidential power and destroy the independence of the Fed. Once again the risks of not having that independence are that American bond rates will edge higher. Once again this will influence our bond rates which are more closely aligned with the US than with Europe. The man is a genuine menace.

    Given that the Federal Reserve is a massively powerful arm of the US state, I am not sure why you argue automatically that its independence is a virtue. Nobody elects it. Why should it make massive decisions about Americans' lives (let alone anyone elses') that it is not accountable for. Bank of England 'independence' has absolutely not led to the stability in the UK that was promised - the Bank's decision-making is as poor as it ever was under the Chancellor, but he (or she) was at least accountable.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,708
    ...
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,749
    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Even if you or I saw a hundred flags on a trip, it is most likely only one or two blokes putting them up. Not to mention that a hundred people can come past one flag and it is still only one flag, not a hundred. This whole thing is pure Astroturf. It is also rather sinister, not that there are a few braindeads out there, but that we can be manipulated to believe there is some "movement".
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,654
    Leon said:

    Devastating polling for Labour

    “Farage’s intervention comes after a Times poll by YouGov found that 71% of voters believe Keir Starmer is handling the asylum seeker hotel crisis poorly, including a majority of Labour supporters. The findings have intensified pressure on ministers to demonstrate visible progress before a winter in which the use of hotels remains one of the most politically fraught aspects of the small boats crisis”

    Times. ££

    I see on the news this morning the 41 year old Ethiopian ‘migrant’ accused of trying to kiss a child in Epping starts today.

    As you’d say ‘brace, brace’
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,654
    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Even if you or I saw a hundred flags on a trip, it is most likely only one or two blokes putting them up. Not to mention that a hundred people can come past one flag and it is still only one flag, not a hundred. This whole thing is pure Astroturf. It is also rather sinister, not that there are a few braindeads out there, but that we can be manipulated to believe there is some "movement".
    This energy


  • TazTaz Posts: 20,654
    eek said:

    Despite the rampant speculation and widespread shitting on fracking here, even RCS has I believe acknowledged (he can update me if this has changed) that a ban should not be in place. We have safety standards. These companies are not looking for Government subsidy. They should be allowed to operate if they can do so within the law. There is a great deal of hypocrisy and cant over energy infrastructure. We're happy to see landscapes sacrificed to vast pilons and birds sacrificed to windmills because it's all for 'the transition'. But we're against any possible disturbance to the rural idyll to get a profitable means of energy generation up and running.

    Furthermore, I see absolutely zero reason why the UK cannot be a net energy exporter with the ample hydrocarbon, tidal, and other resources we have. I consider RCS's views on the subject to be valuable but not impartial.

    If yo are taking about Fracking - get planning permission form the local government and I wouldn’t have a problem with it (beyond the fact I don’t think there are profitable sites in the UK).

    But locals do need a say and given they will say no I aspect that’s something you will try and override.

    Tidal - I think a lot of us haven’t a clue why we haven’t gone for it
    Especially given the tides, unlike the sun and the wind, can pretty much be guaranteed.

    Perhaps someone like @rcs1000 who knows this stuff inside out has an idea.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,085

    Sean_F said:

    ydoethur said:

    DavidL said:

    The absolute hypocrisy of Trump firing Lisa Cook for alleged mortgage irregularities when he has already been convicted of the same after trial. Once again he looks to extend Presidential power and destroy the independence of the Fed. Once again the risks of not having that independence are that American bond rates will edge higher. Once again this will influence our bond rates which are more closely aligned with the US than with Europe. The man is a genuine menace.

    This is what he said:

    In light of your deceitful and potentially criminal conduct in a financial matter … I do not have such confidence in your integrity. At a minimum, the conduct at issue exhibits the sort of gross negligence in financial transactions that calls into question your competence and trustworthiness as a financial regulator

    The sheer irony of that statement is probably lost on him.

    I wonder if Leon is still arguing Biden has dementia and Trump doesn’t? He seems to have gone quiet on the subject recently…
    I don’t know about senility.

    I think it’s pretty well proven that he is a psychopath.
    Bit harsh on Biden.

    He's convinced he's Irish, yes, but I'd call that more delusional.
    I thought Sean meant Leon.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,405
    eek said:

    Despite the rampant speculation and widespread shitting on fracking here, even RCS has I believe acknowledged (he can update me if this has changed) that a ban should not be in place. We have safety standards. These companies are not looking for Government subsidy. They should be allowed to operate if they can do so within the law. There is a great deal of hypocrisy and cant over energy infrastructure. We're happy to see landscapes sacrificed to vast pilons and birds sacrificed to windmills because it's all for 'the transition'. But we're against any possible disturbance to the rural idyll to get a profitable means of energy generation up and running.

    Furthermore, I see absolutely zero reason why the UK cannot be a net energy exporter with the ample hydrocarbon, tidal, and other resources we have. I consider RCS's views on the subject to be valuable but not impartial.

    If yo are taking about Fracking - get planning permission form the local government and I wouldn’t have a problem with it (beyond the fact I don’t think there are profitable sites in the UK).

    But locals do need a say and given they will say no I aspect that’s something you will try and override.

    Tidal - I think a lot of us haven’t a clue why we haven’t gone for it
    I agree on all counts.

    I suspect there is a lot of gas, that it can be got out profitably, and that it would cause some minor disturbances, with locals happy because their mouths had been stuffed with gold (deservedly).

    Those are just my suspicions. It could be a bust, and that's showbiz.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,085
    Lisa Cook in light of her mortgage dealings has announced her candidacy for the Republican nomination in 2028.

    'As somebody who is accused of mortgage fraud and says it is politically motivated to stop me doing my rightful job, I am clearly the perfect candidate,' she said.

    However, senior Republicans expressed misgivings. 'Sure, she's done some dodgy shit, but she doesn't have a track record of sexual assault, lying in court, treason or hanging out with lots of paedos,' said a senior figure. 'Moreover, she's going to be about 15 years too young as she'll only be 64.'

    'We're really looking for somebody to build on the good work Trump has done to Make America Great Again and give us our republic back, so we're looking at one of his sons. True, he's a bit young as well but he meets all the other criteria.

    Tim Buttigieg, approached for comment, just put his head in his hands.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,498
    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Even if you or I saw a hundred flags on a trip, it is most likely only one or two blokes putting them up. Not to mention that a hundred people can come past one flag and it is still only one flag, not a hundred. This whole thing is pure Astroturf. It is also rather sinister, not that there are a few braindeads out there, but that we can be manipulated to believe there is some "movement".
    This energy


    Good morning

    Here in Wales we are seeing the Welsh flag raised on lamp posts

    Something is happening out there but how long it goes on for I do not know but it certainly seems to be upsetting those on the left

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,085
    eek said:

    Despite the rampant speculation and widespread shitting on fracking here, even RCS has I believe acknowledged (he can update me if this has changed) that a ban should not be in place. We have safety standards. These companies are not looking for Government subsidy. They should be allowed to operate if they can do so within the law. There is a great deal of hypocrisy and cant over energy infrastructure. We're happy to see landscapes sacrificed to vast pilons and birds sacrificed to windmills because it's all for 'the transition'. But we're against any possible disturbance to the rural idyll to get a profitable means of energy generation up and running.

    Furthermore, I see absolutely zero reason why the UK cannot be a net energy exporter with the ample hydrocarbon, tidal, and other resources we have. I consider RCS's views on the subject to be valuable but not impartial.

    If yo are taking about Fracking - get planning permission form the local government and I wouldn’t have a problem with it (beyond the fact I don’t think there are profitable sites in the UK).

    But locals do need a say and given they will say no I aspect that’s something you will try and override.

    Tidal - I think a lot of us haven’t a clue why we haven’t gone for it
    Because the nuclear power industry's lobbyists are well funded, totally unscrupulous and have the ear of far too many politicians.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,586
    .

    DavidL said:

    The absolute hypocrisy of Trump firing Lisa Cook for alleged mortgage irregularities when he has already been convicted of the same after trial. Once again he looks to extend Presidential power and destroy the independence of the Fed. Once again the risks of not having that independence are that American bond rates will edge higher. Once again this will influence our bond rates which are more closely aligned with the US than with Europe. The man is a genuine menace.

    Given that the Federal Reserve is a massively powerful arm of the US state, I am not sure why you argue automatically that its independence is a virtue. Nobody elects it. Why should it make massive decisions about Americans' lives (let alone anyone elses') that it is not accountable for. Bank of England 'independence' has absolutely not led to the stability in the UK that was promised - the Bank's decision-making is as poor as it ever was under the Chancellor, but he (or she) was at least accountable.
    Is David arguing that "automatically" ?

    The evidence suggests that an autocratic executive setting interest rates based on their personal whim is far worse.
    Here's a recent example.
    https://x.com/JustinWolfers/status/1960137885719703674

    And in any event, a move to change central bank independence would require legislation.
    Trump's move is plainly illegal.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,705
    Cicero said:

    Foxy said:

    Fun with Flags report, from a long Bank Holiday Drive:

    None visible in IoW
    Half dozen England flags cable tied to lampposts near IKEA in Southampton.
    Random England flag sticking out of a hedge near Romsey.
    Few flags draped on motorway bridges near Oxford.
    Nothing else north of Watford Gap Services.

    Even if you or I saw a hundred flags on a trip, it is most likely only one or two blokes putting them up. Not to mention that a hundred people can come past one flag and it is still only one flag, not a hundred. This whole thing is pure Astroturf. It is also rather sinister, not that there are a few braindeads out there, but that we can be manipulated to believe there is some "movement".
    Almost certainly the output of a half dozen sad incels..

    The sort of people that look at the Shankhill road and think "let's have a bit of that".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 75,085
    edited August 26
    Nigelb said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    The absolute hypocrisy of Trump firing Lisa Cook for alleged mortgage irregularities when he has already been convicted of the same after trial. Once again he looks to extend Presidential power and destroy the independence of the Fed. Once again the risks of not having that independence are that American bond rates will edge higher. Once again this will influence our bond rates which are more closely aligned with the US than with Europe. The man is a genuine menace.

    Given that the Federal Reserve is a massively powerful arm of the US state, I am not sure why you argue automatically that its independence is a virtue. Nobody elects it. Why should it make massive decisions about Americans' lives (let alone anyone elses') that it is not accountable for. Bank of England 'independence' has absolutely not led to the stability in the UK that was promised - the Bank's decision-making is as poor as it ever was under the Chancellor, but he (or she) was at least accountable.
    Is David arguing that "automatically" ?

    The evidence suggests that an autocratic executive setting interest rates based on their personal whim is far worse.
    Here's a recent example.
    https://x.com/JustinWolfers/status/1960137885719703674

    And in any event, a move to change central bank independence would require legislation.
    Trump's move is plainly illegal.
    The issue is not that it's illegal. All his actions are illegal. Always have been, as we saw in his New York trials.

    The issue is whether law enforcement will follow the law or follow the whims of the President.

    So far the signs are not good, particularly given the corruption of the Supreme Court.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,186
    Flags depend very much on who is doing the raising, what they are raising, and where they are raising it.

    A church flying the St. George's Cross is definitely Olde England, and nothing more. If carried on a protest it can indicate something else. Rainbow flags (2025 version) are almost de rigeur in the large corporate/public sector, and never challenged. And virtually anyone carrying a Palestinian flag is a nob.

    I'd steer clear of any caravan flying a flag on a campsite on one of those 25ft high bendy flagpole things - lots of them being skull & crossbones, it seems.

    They will be a nightmare.
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