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Like Donald Trump, Reform voters will sell out Ukraine – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,639
edited August 21 in General
Like Donald Trump, Reform voters will sell out Ukraine – politicalbetting.com

57% of Britons would support deploying British soldiers as peacekeepers in Ukraine, if a peace deal to end the war is reached, with Keir Starmer saying he is "ready and willing" to send UK troops to help guarantee security following a peace dealSupport: 57% (-1 from January)Oppose: 25% (+4)

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Comments

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,954
    First
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,954
    The interesting thing about the poll is how aligned Lab, Tory and Lib Dem’s are and different Reform are. Just goes to show Reform are not normal.

    I do wonder how soft their polling is. Are these leads illusory? Will their supporters bother to vote?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,801
    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 19,801

    The interesting thing about the poll is how aligned Lab, Tory and Lib Dem’s are and different Reform are. Just goes to show Reform are not normal.

    I do wonder how soft their polling is. Are these leads illusory? Will their supporters bother to vote?

    The way in which Reform voters so often stick out as different on this sort of poll would tend to suggest that it will be unlikely they would drift back to support other parties, but it's possible they won't bother to vote, or that the polls are over-representing an angry online demographic.

    Recent votes would tend to suggest the first option is most likely.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,488
    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,359

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Your sense of humour is most underrated around here.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,789

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    Because it'll probably be an EU led mission and they want the UK involved.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,690

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    Personally I am somewhat opposed to garrisoned the Donbas indefinitely, though joint manoeuvres and training in drone warfare might be useful.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 19,954

    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.

    Well to be fair Labours/the lefts line is ‘tax the rich to pay for everything’, the Tories is cut taxes and don’t pay for anything and the Lib Dems, well no one really knows.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,114

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    So, you're saying that Ukraine is a bastion of NIMBY?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,730

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    Because support for Ukraine is the right thing to do? Not sure it's party political though.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,690

    The interesting thing about the poll is how aligned Lab, Tory and Lib Dem’s are and different Reform are. Just goes to show Reform are not normal.

    I do wonder how soft their polling is. Are these leads illusory? Will their supporters bother to vote?

    The way in which Reform voters so often stick out as different on this sort of poll would tend to suggest that it will be unlikely they would drift back to support other parties, but it's possible they won't bother to vote, or that the polls are over-representing an angry online demographic.

    Recent votes would tend to suggest the first option is most likely.
    Only a third of Reform voters strongly opposed the deployment, with 37% in favour, so there is the possibility of peeling off some voters to other parties, leaving a rump of Putinist fascists.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,422
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    How many could they get in Chevening?
    Some temporary accommodation blocks in the grounds
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,777
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,488
    rcs1000 said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    So, you're saying that Ukraine is a bastion of NIMBY?
    They're certainly not happy about having Russian soldiers in their back yard.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,690
    rcs1000 said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    So, you're saying that Ukraine is a bastion of NIMBY?
    Yes, they don't want Russia in their back yard.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 7,802

    The interesting thing about the poll is how aligned Lab, Tory and Lib Dem’s are and different Reform are. Just goes to show Reform are not normal.

    I do wonder how soft their polling is. Are these leads illusory? Will their supporters bother to vote?

    The way in which Reform voters so often stick out as different on this sort of poll would tend to suggest that it will be unlikely they would drift back to support other parties, but it's possible they won't bother to vote, or that the polls are over-representing an angry online demographic.

    Recent votes would tend to suggest the first option is most likely.
    Yes, and the Brexit referendum (and 2017/19 elections to some extent) showed that when enough people are motivated by something “different” they will often turn out in greater numbers than previously. I think it’s entirely possible Reform get a number of voters to the ballot box who didn’t bother in 2024.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,488

    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.

    Well to be fair Labours/the lefts line is ‘tax the rich to pay for everything’, the Tories is cut taxes and don’t pay for anything and the Lib Dems, well no one really knows.
    Those two are at least coherent from the point of view of arithmetic. Which is why Hunt's NI cuts funded by mystery spending cuts were so problematic.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,789
    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,437
    rcs1000 said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    So, you're saying that Ukraine is a bastion of NIMBY?
    Well they're certainly against Putin in their back yard.
  • ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 217

    The interesting thing about the poll is how aligned Lab, Tory and Lib Dem’s are and different Reform are. Just goes to show Reform are not normal.

    I do wonder how soft their polling is. Are these leads illusory? Will their supporters bother to vote?

    Surely Reform's USP is precisely that they ARE so distinct from the uni-party Lab-LibCon.

    Reform seem to be consistently clocking up 30% by not being 'normal'. Frankly, when you look at where voting for the 'normal' parties has got us, who can blame those who have abandoned 'normal'.
  • Smart51Smart51 Posts: 81
    What is notable from the figures in the header is how different Reform voters are from Tories. It's often thought that Reform voters are Tories but more so. Social conservatives they may be, but they're very nationalist with it. On this topic, the remaining Tories are similar to Labour voters.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,437
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525

    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.

    Well to be fair Labours/the lefts line is ‘tax the rich to pay for everything’, the Tories is cut taxes and don’t pay for anything and the Lib Dems, well no one really knows.
    Those two are at least coherent from the point of view of arithmetic. Which is why Hunt's NI cuts funded by mystery spending cuts were so problematic.
    Massively reckless act of salting the earth for the incoming administration.

    Labour have played a poor hand badly. But their hand was poor from the prior administration.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,302
    edited August 21
    Good morning everyone.

    So Reform voters are something of an outlier again. More information would be nice !

    I wonder how well the sample tracks the changing Reform support coalition? How well is the overall Yougov panel matched to the whole population, and to the subset of the population who vote? I suspect the answer to these is "quite well".

    I wonder how that tracks across the different sections of the Reform support base? How do people who like Tommy Robinson (30% of Ref UK support base earlier this year) with "fed up Labour", and "fed up Tories", and "like Farage" (70% earlier this year) compare, for example?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,859
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Many already are. In my parents’ village in Warwickshire the old Manor House on the hill (beautiful spot, used to be a training centre, then a hospitality venue - sister’s wedding reception was there) has been an asylum reception centre for a few years.

    The residents are a mix of the outgoing and enthusiastic, and the depressed and introverted. My parents volunteer there and have got to know people the, like the Iranian family with a girl who appears to be a child genius, who cooked them a slap up Persian feast or the flamboyant Sudanese man, who they’re convinced is gay but hasn’t said so, who helps out with the church gardening.

    Other residents scarcely show their faces and seem deeply depressed. It’s a sort of gilded prison, far from anyone they know. Being a refugee seems to be an extrovert’s game.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    Probably with a degree of anti western thinking too.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,488
    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,506
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Scene - a scumbag illegal HMO landlords office

    Tenants - “Why are you kicking us out?

    Landlord - “So I can go legit - get an HMO license and fill the place with undocumented workers.”

    Tenants - “But we are undocumented workers!”

    Landlord - “Yeah, funny, isn’t it?”
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,402
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Use football stadia. They are only used parts of the year / parts of the month anyway. That nice new Everton one is an example and they can groundshare with Liverpool. Ditto Manchester and the North London / South London teams.

    No cricket grounds though as the teams need more practice.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,859
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    So, you're saying that Ukraine is a bastion of NIMBY?
    Yes, they don't want Russia in their back yard.
    Perhaps they’re doing this all wrong. Get someone to do a survey of Donbas and find some rare bats. That’ll put a stop to any more Russian advances.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,859
    Nigelb said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Foxy said:

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    If supporting liberal democracy is important to you… As they say, the clue is in the name.
    Yes, and LDs are strong on internationalism. I wonder what the Greens think.

    From my comrades in the party, I'd say opposed, possibly more than the Fukkers. Largely driven by an instinctive revulsion toward imperialism and a probably well founded concern that it'll turn into an incompetently managed bloodbath that achieves the exact opposite of its purpose of record.
    You'd think they'd want to do something to oppose that SMO, then.
    No no, not THAT imperialism.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,757
    I will be curious to see how the Tory Party responds. It has been hammering itself into the ground in recent weeks - loving the "Rachel Thieves" embarrassment and the response to it.

    At least HQ has recognised they are in a fight for their existence and now they are going for it. If ReFUK voters want to screw Ukraine and Tory managers want to outflank them on the right, does that mean open support for Putin?

    Even better is that Tory ministers would be out insisting they have always supported Putin. As they are with lower taxes and not opening asylum hotels and all the other two-faced lines they continue to be ripped apart over on social media.
  • ConcanvasserConcanvasser Posts: 217
    Smart51 said:

    What is notable from the figures in the header is how different Reform voters are from Tories. It's often thought that Reform voters are Tories but more so. Social conservatives they may be, but they're very nationalist with it. On this topic, the remaining Tories are similar to Labour voters.

    The remaining Tories are a diminished sub-set, sadly. The Reform figures now includes significant number of Con voters from the 80s and 90s.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,506
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    The thing I find spectacular is how bad the deals for block booking the hotels are.

    We are talking about places that are going back in condition. A bit of digging would probably reveal poor occupancy. 100% guaranteed occupancy should have reduced the price to about £20 per room, per night. Especially since all the facilities apart from the kitchen were to be shuttered.

    Bet they will be paying hundreds per person per night in HMOs…
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Many already are. In my parents’ village in Warwickshire the old Manor House on the hill (beautiful spot, used to be a training centre, then a hospitality venue - sister’s wedding reception was there) has been an asylum reception centre for a few years.

    The residents are a mix of the outgoing and enthusiastic, and the depressed and introverted. My parents volunteer there and have got to know people the, like the Iranian family with a girl who appears to be a child genius, who cooked them a slap up Persian feast or the flamboyant Sudanese man, who they’re convinced is gay but hasn’t said so, who helps out with the church gardening.

    Other residents scarcely show their faces and seem deeply depressed. It’s a sort of gilded prison, far from anyone they know. Being a refugee seems to be an extrovert’s game.
    Proportionally there are far more in deprived areas than in areas like the one you describe.

    It needs balancing out.

    Middlesbrough, Gateshead and Hartlepool all have circa 45 per 100,000 people. Far higher than the leafy shires.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,690
    Smart51 said:

    What is notable from the figures in the header is how different Reform voters are from Tories. It's often thought that Reform voters are Tories but more so. Social conservatives they may be, but they're very nationalist with it. On this topic, the remaining Tories are similar to Labour voters.

    Yes, those simplistically adding Ref and Con together don't seem to really understand either party.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,402
    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    I think the owners of street furniture might get a bit annoyed at the damage - and where's the H & S PPE gear. Reckless I say.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,302
    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    8-

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Hmmm. If they need them all that is 30-40 people or 8-10 houses per constituency, on average.

    I wonder what the actual crime risk is from this group, in the context of overall crime?

    Given that the Govt has already reduced the cost per person by 1/4 to 1/3 in hotels over the last Govt, it will also be a further money saving move.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 30,757
    An example of the Tory fight back being laughed out of town. Read the comments:

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1958419898117353676
  • eekeek Posts: 31,010

    Essence of Reformism is "don't tax me to spend money on them, tax them to spend money on me".

    Every party does it a bit, because it's human nature to think that. But the Uniparty and its voters tend to draw the line in one place, and Faragists draw it somewhere else.

    And because "me" and "them" are different for everyone, Nigel will have a rotten time if he ever has to take responsibility.

    Well to be fair Labours/the lefts line is ‘tax the rich to pay for everything’, the Tories is cut taxes and don’t pay for anything and the Lib Dems, well no one really knows.
    Those two are at least coherent from the point of view of arithmetic. Which is why Hunt's NI cuts funded by mystery spending cuts were so problematic.
    Correction - are now so problematic.

    We go back to the question of worst chancellor of the past 50 years and I think I could make a very good case for Hunt being that person
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,690

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    The thing I find spectacular is how bad the deals for block booking the hotels are.

    We are talking about places that are going back in condition. A bit of digging would probably reveal poor occupancy. 100% guaranteed occupancy should have reduced the price to about £20 per room, per night. Especially since all the facilities apart from the kitchen were to be shuttered.

    Bet they will be paying hundreds per person per night in HMOs…
    I see at the Bell hotel there are 138 asylum seekers in 80 rooms. Is sharing a room with a random stranger normal in 4 star hotels?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,779
    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    Not sure how you know that many renters support the asylum seekers but a bit hard cheese on those who are indifferent to the issue.
    I suppose the enraged right of centrist dads will turn their ire on having dusky hued asylum seekers scattered about the community rather than safely tucked up at a single location.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,859
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Many already are. In my parents’ village in Warwickshire the old Manor House on the hill (beautiful spot, used to be a training centre, then a hospitality venue - sister’s wedding reception was there) has been an asylum reception centre for a few years.

    The residents are a mix of the outgoing and enthusiastic, and the depressed and introverted. My parents volunteer there and have got to know people the, like the Iranian family with a girl who appears to be a child genius, who cooked them a slap up Persian feast or the flamboyant Sudanese man, who they’re convinced is gay but hasn’t said so, who helps out with the church gardening.

    Other residents scarcely show their faces and seem deeply depressed. It’s a sort of gilded prison, far from anyone they know. Being a refugee seems to be an extrovert’s game.
    Proportionally there are far more in deprived areas than in areas like the one you describe.

    It needs balancing out.

    Middlesbrough, Gateshead and Hartlepool all have circa 45 per 100,000 people. Far higher than the leafy shires.
    If it were up to me they would almost all be here in inner London. Largest population, most diverse already, least likelihood of local resistance, closest to the diaspora communities, most job opportunities. I’m not sure quite why governments seem so keen on dispersion.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,459
    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    8-

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Hmmm. If they need them all that is 30-40 people or 8-10 houses per constituency, on average.

    I wonder what the actual crime risk is from this group, in the context of overall crime?

    Given that the Govt has already reduced the cost per person by 1/4 to 1/3 in hotels over the last Govt, it will also be a further money saving move.
    Actually Telegraph is reporting that:

    "The new appeal is understood to have been seeking shorter-term leases or rents, where migrants would be accommodated for 90 days with an additional 30 days’ notice."
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,800
    We need to stop spending money on hotels and instead spend more money on judges and lawyers to get through the backlog and either (a) permit asylum so they can start working, or (b) deport.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,459
    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Many already are. In my parents’ village in Warwickshire the old Manor House on the hill (beautiful spot, used to be a training centre, then a hospitality venue - sister’s wedding reception was there) has been an asylum reception centre for a few years.

    The residents are a mix of the outgoing and enthusiastic, and the depressed and introverted. My parents volunteer there and have got to know people the, like the Iranian family with a girl who appears to be a child genius, who cooked them a slap up Persian feast or the flamboyant Sudanese man, who they’re convinced is gay but hasn’t said so, who helps out with the church gardening.

    Other residents scarcely show their faces and seem deeply depressed. It’s a sort of gilded prison, far from anyone they know. Being a refugee seems to be an extrovert’s game.
    Proportionally there are far more in deprived areas than in areas like the one you describe.

    It needs balancing out.

    Middlesbrough, Gateshead and Hartlepool all have circa 45 per 100,000 people. Far higher than the leafy shires.
    Rental is cheap in those areas.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,459
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Many already are. In my parents’ village in Warwickshire the old Manor House on the hill (beautiful spot, used to be a training centre, then a hospitality venue - sister’s wedding reception was there) has been an asylum reception centre for a few years.

    The residents are a mix of the outgoing and enthusiastic, and the depressed and introverted. My parents volunteer there and have got to know people the, like the Iranian family with a girl who appears to be a child genius, who cooked them a slap up Persian feast or the flamboyant Sudanese man, who they’re convinced is gay but hasn’t said so, who helps out with the church gardening.

    Other residents scarcely show their faces and seem deeply depressed. It’s a sort of gilded prison, far from anyone they know. Being a refugee seems to be an extrovert’s game.
    Proportionally there are far more in deprived areas than in areas like the one you describe.

    It needs balancing out.

    Middlesbrough, Gateshead and Hartlepool all have circa 45 per 100,000 people. Far higher than the leafy shires.
    If it were up to me they would almost all be here in inner London. Largest population, most diverse already, least likelihood of local resistance, closest to the diaspora communities, most job opportunities. I’m not sure quite why governments seem so keen on dispersion.
    They don't need job opportunities. They can't work.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,789
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    al-Khader is the patron saint of Palestine as well as Ingerlund so it's all good.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Many already are. In my parents’ village in Warwickshire the old Manor House on the hill (beautiful spot, used to be a training centre, then a hospitality venue - sister’s wedding reception was there) has been an asylum reception centre for a few years.

    The residents are a mix of the outgoing and enthusiastic, and the depressed and introverted. My parents volunteer there and have got to know people the, like the Iranian family with a girl who appears to be a child genius, who cooked them a slap up Persian feast or the flamboyant Sudanese man, who they’re convinced is gay but hasn’t said so, who helps out with the church gardening.

    Other residents scarcely show their faces and seem deeply depressed. It’s a sort of gilded prison, far from anyone they know. Being a refugee seems to be an extrovert’s game.
    Proportionally there are far more in deprived areas than in areas like the one you describe.

    It needs balancing out.

    Middlesbrough, Gateshead and Hartlepool all have circa 45 per 100,000 people. Far higher than the leafy shires.
    If it were up to me they would almost all be here in inner London. Largest population, most diverse already, least likelihood of local resistance, closest to the diaspora communities, most job opportunities. I’m not sure quite why governments seem so keen on dispersion.
    Cost of housing is one thing.

    Houses in the North West, North East and other areas they are sent in large numbers to are cheap compared to London

    It’s the same principle that sees southern councils dump problem families in places like Stoke and Ferryhill.
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,860
    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    All the government has to do is to outbid the market in each area and, lo & behold, the owners will turn out their existing tenants ASAP. So all those homeless people will be local people and thus of no concern to the government.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525

    Taz said:

    TimS said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Many already are. In my parents’ village in Warwickshire the old Manor House on the hill (beautiful spot, used to be a training centre, then a hospitality venue - sister’s wedding reception was there) has been an asylum reception centre for a few years.

    The residents are a mix of the outgoing and enthusiastic, and the depressed and introverted. My parents volunteer there and have got to know people the, like the Iranian family with a girl who appears to be a child genius, who cooked them a slap up Persian feast or the flamboyant Sudanese man, who they’re convinced is gay but hasn’t said so, who helps out with the church gardening.

    Other residents scarcely show their faces and seem deeply depressed. It’s a sort of gilded prison, far from anyone they know. Being a refugee seems to be an extrovert’s game.
    Proportionally there are far more in deprived areas than in areas like the one you describe.

    It needs balancing out.

    Middlesbrough, Gateshead and Hartlepool all have circa 45 per 100,000 people. Far higher than the leafy shires.
    Rental is cheap in those areas.

    Huge if true 🙄
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,690
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    So Reform voters are something of an outlier again. More information would be nice !

    I wonder how well the sample tracks the changing Reform support coalition? How well is the overall Yougov panel matched to the whole population, and to the subset of the population who vote? I suspect the answer to these is "quite well".

    I wonder how that tracks across the different sections of the Reform support base? How do people who like Tommy Robinson (30% of Ref UK support base earlier this year) with "fed up Labour", and "fed up Tories", and "like Farage" (70% earlier this year) compare, for example?

    I think this is one of Yougovs instant daily polls, so not weighted in the same way as there more formal polls.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,648

    An example of the Tory fight back being laughed out of town. Read the comments:

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1958419898117353676

    It was a big win for the Tories, and they even outflanked Farage. Philp, Jenrick and Badenoch were on yesterday incredulous that the Government is putting asylum seekers in hotels. Whoever thought that was a good idea?

    BBC news coverage was very positive throughout the day for the Tories. Emma Barnett took down Dan Jarvis over Labour losing control of immigration yesterday morning.

    I believe the Conservatives have turned this corner. Absolutely brilliant opportunist politics. They are back to the top of their Johnsonian stunts game.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    The thing I find spectacular is how bad the deals for block booking the hotels are.

    We are talking about places that are going back in condition. A bit of digging would probably reveal poor occupancy. 100% guaranteed occupancy should have reduced the price to about £20 per room, per night. Especially since all the facilities apart from the kitchen were to be shuttered.

    Bet they will be paying hundreds per person per night in HMOs…
    I see at the Bell hotel there are 138 asylum seekers in 80 rooms. Is sharing a room with a random stranger normal in 4 star hotels?
    How do you know they are not family members. A BBC puff piece on asylum seekers there interviewed a Mother and daughter.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    Battlebus said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    I think the owners of street furniture might get a bit annoyed at the damage - and where's the H & S PPE gear. Reckless I say.
    The lack of a Hi-viz is telling.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,156
    Morning all :)

    Flags, it seems, are never too far away from the top of the agenda. The rule against putting flags on street architecture (and that includes painting St George crosses on mini-roundabouts) is clear and as long as it is applied consistently (is there evidence it isn't apart from those trying to weaponise the story by saying Council,X took 12 hours to get rid of the St George's flags and 18 hours to get rid of the Palestinian ones), there should be no issues.

    It's all a bit reminiscent of Northern Ireland in the Troubles - this is "our" street etc, etc and we saw the same in Ballymena recently.

    As for asylum applicants in hotels, well, we have a temporary injunction which may or may not face an appeal. We already know the current Government, desperate to look as though they were doing something, were moving the asylum applicants out of hotels and into HMOs which, as we've seen, are not without their own issues and those with longer memories will recall the trouble in the old East Germany when this happened.

    The hostility toward "outsiders" and "they're not like us" combines both issues - the fortress of cultural identity gets ever stronger. It;s not a failure of multiculturalism but a failure of simple humanity.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,913

    We need to stop spending money on hotels and instead spend more money on judges and lawyers to get through the backlog and either (a) permit asylum so they can start working, or (b) deport.

    Luckily there are thousands of lawyers and judges kicking their heals at the moment whilst tumbleweed rolls through the empty court buildings.

    Would be a lot easier if France bit the bullet for a bit and agreed that everyone arriving in the UK via France illegally immediately gets returned. Those returned have their finger prints/iris scans stored and are barred from any future asylum claim in the UK.

    Whilst in the short term the French won’t like it, it will kill the smugglers model - why pay smugglers thousands to get on a boat and then just get sent back to where you started with no future right to claim asylum. We could spend the money we are giving the French police to achieve nothing to build a load of temporary camps to house returnees in.

    Eventually migrants will see that there is absolutely no point whatsoever in heading for the Calais region in the hope of getting on a boat to the UK.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,402
    Off topic. Who are the IDF bombarding? Who are they dropping bombs on?

    Is there some hidden well equipped army still there we do not about.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,789
    The owners of Chinese fleg sweatshops must be fucking laughing.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,800
    boulay said:

    We need to stop spending money on hotels and instead spend more money on judges and lawyers to get through the backlog and either (a) permit asylum so they can start working, or (b) deport.

    Luckily there are thousands of lawyers and judges kicking their heals at the moment whilst tumbleweed rolls through the empty court buildings.

    Would be a lot easier if France bit the bullet for a bit and agreed that everyone arriving in the UK via France illegally immediately gets returned. Those returned have their finger prints/iris scans stored and are barred from any future asylum claim in the UK.

    Whilst in the short term the French won’t like it, it will kill the smugglers model - why pay smugglers thousands to get on a boat and then just get sent back to where you started with no future right to claim asylum. We could spend the money we are giving the French police to achieve nothing to build a load of temporary camps to house returnees in.

    Eventually migrants will see that there is absolutely no point whatsoever in heading for the Calais region in the hope of getting on a boat to the UK.
    If you offer billable hours, they will come!!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,779
    Did I read that Kemi has been tweeting about ‘Rachel Thieves’?
    I don’t recall any Tory opposition pol going with the comparatively Swiftian Tony Bliar. What a sorry state UK politics is in (Badenoch is also a fckn idiot which doesn’t help).
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    All the government has to do is to outbid the market in each area and, lo & behold, the owners will turn out their existing tenants ASAP. So all those homeless people will be local people and thus of no concern to the government.
    And the councils problem too.

    Durham are doing something about making it tougher to turn a house into an HMO, primarily aimed at student conversions. There’s already been some rejected in Gilesgate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjwnjd76e98o
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,779
    Battlebus said:

    Off topic. Who are the IDF bombarding? Who are they dropping bombs on?

    Is there some hidden well equipped army still there we do not about.

    Hamas, all is Hamas.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,156
    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).


    Now this from Politico USA:
    Pentagon’s top policy official told a small group of European allies Tuesday night that the U.S. plans to play a minimal role in any Ukraine security guarantees,

    “There’s the dawning reality that this will be Europe making this happen on the ground,” said a NATO diplomat who was briefed on the talks. “The U.S. is not fully committed to anything.”

    “I don’t know where that leaves us,” said one of the European officials. “Pretty much back to where we were in the spring with the coalition of the willing.”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1958428810870690253?s=61

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,522
    Cicero said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    I have to say that Penny Mordaunt was superb on Newsnight this evening.

    If the conservatives want any chance they need to get her a by-election seat they can win very soon.

    She's turning into Ayesha of Kor in tory mythology.
    It is a mythos of course, and she certainly has faults, but she is the only Tory that could lead a recovery.
    Lord Ashcroft's most recent focus group would suggest that its not the current leader that is the problem, and as I have suggested before Kemi Badenoch comes across very well in media interviews as a fiesty female alternative to Starmer or Farage. The big problem a year after that massive GE defeat is more about reinventing the Conservative party brand in Opposition to the point where the electorate is willing to give them another hearing, right now Reform has been with little scrutiny filling that Opposition vacuum in the media on a single issue but not delivering in Parliament or at local level with elected boots on the ground on a range of other domestic and Foreign policy where it matters.

    So the hard graft of campaigning and delivering on the key issues that will get them to a position where the electorate are prepared to give them another look in the future before the next GE has to happen at both local and Westminster Parliamentary level. Internal fights or open disunity leading to speculation about leadership challenges right now would not only be a huge negative media distraction that undermined that political rebrand, it would also be a clear reminder of the chaotic rotating door of leaders that beset the party over the last eight years. Its not a new leader that the Conservatives needs right now to get wider media attention or public interest, its a rebuilding of the brand with a sound policy base that engages and regains the trust of the electorate.

    'Everyone’s capable of coming back, but they’ve got to win you back'
    "Those who had defected from the Conservatives had not yet been convinced to go back, though most did not rule out doing so. Having “imploded” and “turned into this whole comedy show” and a “middle-aged white-boy rich person’s party” beset by scandals and broken promises, the Tories “need a full reset.” Though some liked what they had seen of Kemi Badenoch (“she’s strong willed and she puts up a fight. She’s got opinions”), people would take some persuading that the party was united, trustworthy or even relevant (“I think everyone’s capable of coming back, but they’ve got to win you back”). Since the succession of prime ministers was part of what put them off about the Conservatives, none thought another leadership election was the answer (“they need a bit of stability. They were just rotating people in and out”).

    Some felt the party should be more open about what it thought had gone wrong during its time in office: “I’d like to hope they are reflecting on what they could have done better, and hold their hands up and say we could have done this and this, we made a mess of this, and this is what we’ll do to become better.”"

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2025/08/this-is-what-happens-when-you-get-normal-people-like-us-and-no-one-listens-to-them-my-latest-focus-groups/
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,913
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Flags, it seems, are never too far away from the top of the agenda. The rule against putting flags on street architecture (and that includes painting St George crosses on mini-roundabouts) is clear and as long as it is applied consistently (is there evidence it isn't apart from those trying to weaponise the story by saying Council,X took 12 hours to get rid of the St George's flags and 18 hours to get rid of the Palestinian ones), there should be no issues.

    It's all a bit reminiscent of Northern Ireland in the Troubles - this is "our" street etc, etc and we saw the same in Ballymena recently.

    As for asylum applicants in hotels, well, we have a temporary injunction which may or may not face an appeal. We already know the current Government, desperate to look as though they were doing something, were moving the asylum applicants out of hotels and into HMOs which, as we've seen, are not without their own issues and those with longer memories will recall the trouble in the old East Germany when this happened.

    The hostility toward "outsiders" and "they're not like us" combines both issues - the fortress of cultural identity gets ever stronger. It;s not a failure of multiculturalism but a failure of simple humanity.

    I’m frankly a bit pissed off with the lack of flag etiquette going on. I want those St George’s, Ukrainian and Palestinian flags down at sunset and only back up at sunrise and if left overnight I want them properly spotlit.

    I attach a handy guide to flag etiquette for flag shaggers of all persuasions.

    https://www.naco.uk.com/assets/Uploads/flagprotocol.pdf
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,658
    ...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,997
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,648
    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    The thing I find spectacular is how bad the deals for block booking the hotels are.

    We are talking about places that are going back in condition. A bit of digging would probably reveal poor occupancy. 100% guaranteed occupancy should have reduced the price to about £20 per room, per night. Especially since all the facilities apart from the kitchen were to be shuttered.

    Bet they will be paying hundreds per person per night in HMOs…
    I see at the Bell hotel there are 138 asylum seekers in 80 rooms. Is sharing a room with a random stranger normal in 4 star hotels?
    How do you know they are not family members. A BBC puff piece on asylum seekers there interviewed a Mother and daughter.
    Aren't we told by Team Nigel that they are almost all single young men looking for grey economy work?
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,789
    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).

    The Indian Army has the best Winter Warfare course in the world - my mate has done it. Four months on a glacier in Himalayas. LOL.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    Borrowing may be down this month but not great and likely to come in at 170 billion for the year, a mere 50 billion over the OBR forecast.

    https://x.com/asentance/status/1958424105080041873?s=61
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,295
    Battlebus said:

    Off topic. Who are the IDF bombarding? Who are they dropping bombs on?

    Is there some hidden well equipped army still there we do not about.

    I don't suppose that question is fully answerable from our state of knowledge, but as to hidden armies in Gaza the answer is no.

    But looking ahead, what is Israel's and USA's actual agenda? IMO both Trump and Israel's government have decided that by one means or another this will occur:

    Gaza to be uninhabitable.
    The population to go elsewhere either by agreements (unlikely) or by force; this to be deemed an Arab/Islamic/UN problem.
    An unambiguous One State permanent solution to Israel, backed by USA security guarantees.
    West Bank process to follow on from the Gaza process.
    Israel not to become a 'Jewish only' state but to continue to have a Palestinian/Islamic/ Christian population, the rights being conferred on individuals and families, not wholesale.
    Gaza either to become Jewish or to be handed to Egypt with a North Korean quality guarded boundary.

    (I don't support any of this but I think that's the plan).
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    The thing I find spectacular is how bad the deals for block booking the hotels are.

    We are talking about places that are going back in condition. A bit of digging would probably reveal poor occupancy. 100% guaranteed occupancy should have reduced the price to about £20 per room, per night. Especially since all the facilities apart from the kitchen were to be shuttered.

    Bet they will be paying hundreds per person per night in HMOs…
    I see at the Bell hotel there are 138 asylum seekers in 80 rooms. Is sharing a room with a random stranger normal in 4 star hotels?
    How do you know they are not family members. A BBC puff piece on asylum seekers there interviewed a Mother and daughter.
    Aren't we told by Team Nigel that they are almost all single young men looking for grey economy work?
    Statistically they are predominantly young men but I’m sure the BBC has no agenda at all in presenting people who aren’t.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,156
    Dura_Ace said:

    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).

    The Indian Army has the best Winter Warfare course in the world - my mate has done it. Four months on a glacier in Himalayas. LOL.
    Good point - I'd forgotten that.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    edited August 21
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    The former flags are largely on council property, stret lighting, etc. etc. If you leave them up, it'll be PA flags, Happy Dene Villas Housing Estate flags, Joe's Used Motors flags, etc. etc.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnv76zzze47o
    That’s Worcestershire not Brum. I’d struggle to walk to the Blues ground from there although I knew someone who got a lift to Derby, didn’t have one back so ended up walking most of the way from Derby to Sutton C

    The Palestine flags in Small Heath were/are predominantly on street furniture.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 6,913
    Dura_Ace said:

    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).

    The Indian Army has the best Winter Warfare course in the world - my mate has done it. Four months on a glacier in Himalayas. LOL.
    They also obviously have their own Gurkhas so I have a feeling the Indians might not have the issues with winter that the sterotyping of sweltering soldiers in the Rajasthani desert or subtropical jungles might bring to mind.

    They have a huge number of soldiers up in the mountains having violent stick fights with the Chinese and they garrison the mountains in Kashmir which is not exactly a warm posting.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,997
    boulay said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    Flags, it seems, are never too far away from the top of the agenda. The rule against putting flags on street architecture (and that includes painting St George crosses on mini-roundabouts) is clear and as long as it is applied consistently (is there evidence it isn't apart from those trying to weaponise the story by saying Council,X took 12 hours to get rid of the St George's flags and 18 hours to get rid of the Palestinian ones), there should be no issues.

    It's all a bit reminiscent of Northern Ireland in the Troubles - this is "our" street etc, etc and we saw the same in Ballymena recently.

    As for asylum applicants in hotels, well, we have a temporary injunction which may or may not face an appeal. We already know the current Government, desperate to look as though they were doing something, were moving the asylum applicants out of hotels and into HMOs which, as we've seen, are not without their own issues and those with longer memories will recall the trouble in the old East Germany when this happened.

    The hostility toward "outsiders" and "they're not like us" combines both issues - the fortress of cultural identity gets ever stronger. It;s not a failure of multiculturalism but a failure of simple humanity.

    I’m frankly a bit pissed off with the lack of flag etiquette going on. I want those St George’s, Ukrainian and Palestinian flags down at sunset and only back up at sunrise and if left overnight I want them properly spotlit.

    I attach a handy guide to flag etiquette for flag shaggers of all persuasions.

    https://www.naco.uk.com/assets/Uploads/flagprotocol.pdf
    Disappointed to find it has no advice on wearing the flag (the little patches on military uniforms apart). How's the chap with a UJ cape to know which way round? Ditto UJ Y-fronts: hard to interpret the guidance relative to the flagpole.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,613
    edited August 21
    Taz said:

    Borrowing may be down this month but not great and likely to come in at 170 billion for the year, a mere 50 billion over the OBR forecast.

    https://x.com/asentance/status/1958424105080041873?s=61

    Some of us remember 2009, when £170bn borrowing was smashing records.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 27,105
    On topic, this is a tricky area to poll. I have issues with the word "peacekeepers". It makes the soldiers sound nice and cuddly and they wouldn't be in any danger.

    Personally, I'd answer don't know to this question as I'd need more information.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,302
    edited August 21

    MattW said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    8-

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Hmmm. If they need them all that is 30-40 people or 8-10 houses per constituency, on average.

    I wonder what the actual crime risk is from this group, in the context of overall crime?

    Given that the Govt has already reduced the cost per person by 1/4 to 1/3 in hotels over the last Govt, it will also be a further money saving move.
    Actually Telegraph is reporting that:

    "The new appeal is understood to have been seeking shorter-term leases or rents, where migrants would be accommodated for 90 days with an additional 30 days’ notice."
    That's going to be a sublet on licence, then. And they are aiming to process more quickly.

    This is the asylum hotel population. Robert Jenrick was Minister of State for Immigration from 25 October 2022 and 6 December 2023. These are quarters.



    ISTM That as with so many things, the new Govt are gradually sorting out, whilst Jenners and co are resolutely refusing to look at themselves in the mirror.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgeqwv98d55o

    (LG, I'll aim to get to your post yesterday this evening - I'm at a funeral today. This is my friend's Facebook photo page, which is a good browse, and he went downhill quickly - he was a musician who helped put on community musicals, amongst other things:
    https://www.facebook.com/ron.newsham/photos_by ).

    Have a good day everyone.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,156
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    RJEN raises the flag in a bitter blow to ‘Britain hating councils’

    He’s quite good at the social media side of things.

    Kemi’s claim to fame is she’s a grass.

    https://x.com/robertjenrick/status/1958410339860529454?s=61

    How long before someone has a great fall off a ladder?

    How long until these flags are a tatty disgrace?

    I'm all for flags- the more, and the more varied, the better. It's one of the things that makes towns on the continent nicer. But this isn't the right way to do it.
    I don’t care either way. When I went to the last Blues game of the season I was struck by the large amount of Palestine flags in the streets around the ground.

    What I do think is off is Birmingham Council will remove British/English flags but have said they won’t touch the Palestinian ones
    Has that been confirmed or is that just ill-informed Twitter speculation?

    There are Palestinian flags in evidence in East Ham but they are on private property such as businesses (we have a coffee shop in the Barking Road which displays a Palestine flag) or have been painted onto vehicles of which some may not approve but it's not to my knowledge illegal.

    We have LTTE flags on occasion outside some of the Tamil businesses and the Romanian shops proudly have their own flag.

    It's when you put a flag on public property that a line is crossed and in the aftermath of October 2023 that happened a lot round here but Newham moved quickly to remove them (in all fairness). We now see the same in Birmingham.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,010
    edited August 21
    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    All the government has to do is to outbid the market in each area and, lo & behold, the owners will turn out their existing tenants ASAP. So all those homeless people will be local people and thus of no concern to the government.
    And the councils problem too.

    Durham are doing something about making it tougher to turn a house into an HMO, primarily aimed at student conversions. There’s already been some rejected in Gilesgate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjwnjd76e98o
    There has been rejections for a couple of years when it comes to Gilesgate. It was why my daughter managed to buy her house there.

    Interestingly 3 house have recently gone up for rent in her cul-de-sac. The 2 family homes were rented in hours, the student house is seeking 2.5 times the other houses and has zilch interest.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,295
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    So Reform voters are something of an outlier again. More information would be nice !

    I wonder how well the sample tracks the changing Reform support coalition? How well is the overall Yougov panel matched to the whole population, and to the subset of the population who vote? I suspect the answer to these is "quite well".

    I wonder how that tracks across the different sections of the Reform support base? How do people who like Tommy Robinson (30% of Ref UK support base earlier this year) with "fed up Labour", and "fed up Tories", and "like Farage" (70% earlier this year) compare, for example?

    I think this is one of Yougovs instant daily polls, so not weighted in the same way as there more formal polls.
    However the polling, suspect as it may be, truly reflects the make up of Reform supporters who, while massively pro the UK armed forces are also isolationists in respect of the problems of any other 'far distant country of which we know nothing' such as Ukraine.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,997
    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,563

    Why is support strongest among Lib Dem voters?

    The EU. Both sets of people are desperate to join it (again).
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,302
    edited August 21
    eek said:

    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    All the government has to do is to outbid the market in each area and, lo & behold, the owners will turn out their existing tenants ASAP. So all those homeless people will be local people and thus of no concern to the government.
    And the councils problem too.

    Durham are doing something about making it tougher to turn a house into an HMO, primarily aimed at student conversions. There’s already been some rejected in Gilesgate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjwnjd76e98o
    There has been rejections for a couple of years when it comes to Gilesgate. It was why my daughter managed to buy her house there.

    Interestingly 3 house have recently gone up for rent in her cul-de-sac. The 2 family homes were rented in hours, the student house is seeking 2.5 times the other houses and has zilch interest.
    Yes - there has been Nimby politics around students in particular for many years. Nottingham and Oxford, for example, introduced policies around 2010 aiming at forcing them into institutional accommodation. Things like Article 4 directions and zealous (sometimes over zealous and nitpicking) regulation.

    Students are exempt from Council Tax, so local authorities get £1500-£4000 per annum for every one they keep as a family home.

    But University run of affiliated institutional accommodation is more expensive for the student.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,295
    Taz said:

    Taz said:

    Foxy said:

    Taz said:

    malcolmg said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    seems they are offering HMO landlords extra money on top of current rents and 5 year deals to chuck their renters out and fill them with illegal immigrants. You could not make it up.
    Landlords would be mad not to take it. As for the renters, oh dear how sad never mind. Many will support the asylum seekers anyway so they can live with the consequences of it.

    Durham council are consulting on HMO’s at the moment with a view to making it tougher to convert a home into an HMO. More driven by students than anything else as County Durham is not really overflowing with these asylum seekers unlike Gateshead, Hartlepool and Middlesbrough who have over 8 times (proportionally) the amount of these men.
    The thing I find spectacular is how bad the deals for block booking the hotels are.

    We are talking about places that are going back in condition. A bit of digging would probably reveal poor occupancy. 100% guaranteed occupancy should have reduced the price to about £20 per room, per night. Especially since all the facilities apart from the kitchen were to be shuttered.

    Bet they will be paying hundreds per person per night in HMOs…
    I see at the Bell hotel there are 138 asylum seekers in 80 rooms. Is sharing a room with a random stranger normal in 4 star hotels?
    How do you know they are not family members. A BBC puff piece on asylum seekers there interviewed a Mother and daughter.
    Aren't we told by Team Nigel that they are almost all single young men looking for grey economy work?
    Statistically they are predominantly young men but I’m sure the BBC has no agenda at all in presenting people who aren’t.
    The BBC are equally unable to locate anyone from the group of people who cynically play the benefits system instead of working.
  • eekeek Posts: 31,010
    MattW said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    AnneJGP said:

    Taz said:

    FPT

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    All the government has to do is to outbid the market in each area and, lo & behold, the owners will turn out their existing tenants ASAP. So all those homeless people will be local people and thus of no concern to the government.
    And the councils problem too.

    Durham are doing something about making it tougher to turn a house into an HMO, primarily aimed at student conversions. There’s already been some rejected in Gilesgate.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjwnjd76e98o
    There has been rejections for a couple of years when it comes to Gilesgate. It was why my daughter managed to buy her house there.

    Interestingly 3 house have recently gone up for rent in her cul-de-sac. The 2 family homes were rented in hours, the student house is seeking 2.5 times the other houses and has zilch interest.
    Yes - there has been Nimby politics around students in particular for many years. Nottingham and Oxford, for example, introduced policies around 2010 aiming at forcing them into institutional accommodation. Things like Article 4 directions and zealous (sometimes over zealous and nitpicking) regulation.

    Students are exempt from Council Tax, so local authorities get £1500-£4000 per annum for every one they keep as a family home.

    But University run of affiliated institutional accommodation is more expensive for the student.
    University accommodation is over £10,000 a year in most cases
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,525
    Carnyx said:

    Taz said:

    A stopped clock moment from Rupert Lowe

    https://x.com/rupertlowe10/status/1958433737831600152?s=61

    Pity the Tories screwed up the apprenticeship system - decades ago, admittedly, but still. My father, who had professional involvement, was not happy about it at the time.

    But a sinner that repenteth, and all that.
    Well he’s not a Tory, I was glad of my apprenticeship in 1982.

    Apprenticeships are a truly good thing.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,641
    Taz said:

    Govt issues urgent appeal for 5,000 homes to,house 20,000 asylum seekers.

    They should put them all in the leafy shires.

    https://x.com/tonydowson5/status/1958264617928728987?s=61

    Put them up in Buckingham Palace, Windsor, Balmoral, Sandringham, Chequers, Chevening, etc, etc.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,817
    Taz said:

    stodge said:

    As for Ukraine, as part of some form of international peacekeeping force (minus the Americans), I've little objection in principle to a British presence on the ground in Ukraine.

    The notion of Brazilian, Indian and Kenyan troops patrolling Donetsk in the depths of winter is not without a certain wry amusement but the first question is going to be who will pay for this force - I suspect it won't be Ukraine or Russia (though it should be). I can't see America stumping up so it'll be the Europeans who will have to fork out as I suspect it will be a primarily European force (it shouldn't be).


    Now this from Politico USA:
    Pentagon’s top policy official told a small group of European allies Tuesday night that the U.S. plans to play a minimal role in any Ukraine security guarantees,

    “There’s the dawning reality that this will be Europe making this happen on the ground,” said a NATO diplomat who was briefed on the talks. “The U.S. is not fully committed to anything.”

    “I don’t know where that leaves us,” said one of the European officials. “Pretty much back to where we were in the spring with the coalition of the willing.”

    https://x.com/afneil/status/1958428810870690253?s=61

    So after the over the top media headlines the sum total is the meetings in Washington achieved very little . Putin shows zero interest in ending the war and Trump isn’t going to do anything to force him to the table .
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