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Thistle do nicely, a 16% return in 9 months? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,630
edited August 17 in General
Thistle do nicely, a 16% return in 9 months? – politicalbetting.com

Ladbrokes have put up a market on who will win the most seats at next year’s Holyrood election and it is a stunning achievement for the the SNP to be the 1/6 favourites when by the time of next year’s election they will have been in power for 19 (nineteen) years.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,039
    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,885
    Ah, an SNP thread.

    I would never have guessed from the title.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,885
    edited August 17
    Bit in Italics -

    Labour have been in power in Wales for 26 years. Admittedly that's included two periods in coalition.

    On the rest - The Pitt/Addington coalition lasted for 23 years (1783-1806) and returned to power in 1807 for another 23 years (until 1830). That's sometimes counted as one 47-year period as Addington/Sidmouth served as Lord Privy Seal from 1806-1807 but probably shouldn't be as the main figures, Portland, Hawkesbury, Castlereagh, Canning and Perceval had gone into Opposition.

    I would have thought the longest period in power in the U.K. would be the Ulster Unionists from 1921 to 1972 in Stormont.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300
    ydoethur said:

    Bit in Italics -

    Labour have been in power in Wales for 26 years. Admittedly that's included two periods in coalition.

    Updated the header now. How could I forget about Wales?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,550
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Say what you like about Boris Johnson's many failings but he is still holding the line on supporting Ukraine.

    Mind you he was rooting for a Trump win last November. That raises an inconsistency in his support for Ukraine.
    I was not and I still remain no fan of Boris Johnson before or after he was elected as Conservative leader and PM, I voted for Jeremy Hunt in that leadership contest. But the idea that there was ever any inconsistency in his support for Ukraine is simple wrong, and for all his faults as a politician or PM, he saw and addressed the danger of an imminent Russian invasion of Ukriane along with the US when some of their European counterparts refused to listen because of their 'very poor' intelligence which left them not only totally wrong footed when Russian did invaded Ukraine, but also left them humiliated because they didn't listen to the US or the UK.

    But if I had to concede the one Foreign policy he got right and backed up in spades with his actions as UK PM, it was his early proactive response to the threat of a Russian invasion and thanks to listening to UK intelligence and acting on upon it and then seeing this through afterwards with equally clear early and sustained UK support provided for Ukraine before and after the Russian invasion. For all his previous and subsequent faults as a politician and a party leader and PM here in the UK, there is no doubt that he was incredibe highly regarded in Ukraine for his early and sustained strong support when it really mattered when his was PM.
    According to Dominic Cummings, Boris supported Ukraine in order to distract attention from the various -gates he was embroiled in. Of course, #ClassicDom might not be an unbiased observer and Boris could have had more than one reason to support Ukraine.
    To be fair to Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings is also a fluent liar and while observant has a tendency to fit facts to his own beliefs about what should have happened rather than to reality, as befits a man who believes he is the cream of his own 'intelligentsia.'

    So I am willing to suggest we give Johnson the benefit of the doubt here.
    We have to simply because we have no tangible evidence to the contrary. We cannot read Johnson's mind. On the other hand we do have an insight into why he reached any positive conclusion, namely it benefitted Johnson. So was this a unique example of altruism in a life of self gratification, or is Cummings telling the truth?
    The latter would be a unique example too...

    As a general rule, assume Cummings is lying or mistaken unless you have hard evidence to the contrary.
    So the dilemma is one of who is most likely to tell the truth over a question of Johnsonian altruism? Hmmm...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,885

    ydoethur said:

    Bit in Italics -

    Labour have been in power in Wales for 26 years. Admittedly that's included two periods in coalition.

    Updated the header now. How could I forget about Wales?
    As a Welshman I would love to be able to forget Welsh Labour.

    I've also kept updating my own comment...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bit in Italics -

    Labour have been in power in Wales for 26 years. Admittedly that's included two periods in coalition.

    Updated the header now. How could I forget about Wales?
    As a Welshman I would love to be able to forget Welsh Labour.

    I've also kept updating my own comment...
    I think it is time for Welsh Labour to bring back Mark Drakeford.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,885

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Say what you like about Boris Johnson's many failings but he is still holding the line on supporting Ukraine.

    Mind you he was rooting for a Trump win last November. That raises an inconsistency in his support for Ukraine.
    I was not and I still remain no fan of Boris Johnson before or after he was elected as Conservative leader and PM, I voted for Jeremy Hunt in that leadership contest. But the idea that there was ever any inconsistency in his support for Ukraine is simple wrong, and for all his faults as a politician or PM, he saw and addressed the danger of an imminent Russian invasion of Ukriane along with the US when some of their European counterparts refused to listen because of their 'very poor' intelligence which left them not only totally wrong footed when Russian did invaded Ukraine, but also left them humiliated because they didn't listen to the US or the UK.

    But if I had to concede the one Foreign policy he got right and backed up in spades with his actions as UK PM, it was his early proactive response to the threat of a Russian invasion and thanks to listening to UK intelligence and acting on upon it and then seeing this through afterwards with equally clear early and sustained UK support provided for Ukraine before and after the Russian invasion. For all his previous and subsequent faults as a politician and a party leader and PM here in the UK, there is no doubt that he was incredibe highly regarded in Ukraine for his early and sustained strong support when it really mattered when his was PM.
    According to Dominic Cummings, Boris supported Ukraine in order to distract attention from the various -gates he was embroiled in. Of course, #ClassicDom might not be an unbiased observer and Boris could have had more than one reason to support Ukraine.
    To be fair to Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings is also a fluent liar and while observant has a tendency to fit facts to his own beliefs about what should have happened rather than to reality, as befits a man who believes he is the cream of his own 'intelligentsia.'

    So I am willing to suggest we give Johnson the benefit of the doubt here.
    We have to simply because we have no tangible evidence to the contrary. We cannot read Johnson's mind. On the other hand we do have an insight into why he reached any positive conclusion, namely it benefitted Johnson. So was this a unique example of altruism in a life of self gratification, or is Cummings telling the truth?
    The latter would be a unique example too...

    As a general rule, assume Cummings is lying or mistaken unless you have hard evidence to the contrary.
    So the dilemma is one of who is most likely to tell the truth over a question of Johnsonian altruism? Hmmm...
    I think it is eminently possible Johnson had ulterior motives. For example, it is quite possible he was supporting Ukraine out of his obsession with Churchill and his desire to live up to him. Seeing himself as the anti-appeaser resisting Fascism and leading Britain in war may well have appealed to his self-importance.

    I think it also eminently possible that Cummings is still lying about what those motives were - possibly without even realising it as one of Cummings' most notable features is his ability to deceive himself.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300
    edited August 17
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Say what you like about Boris Johnson's many failings but he is still holding the line on supporting Ukraine.

    Mind you he was rooting for a Trump win last November. That raises an inconsistency in his support for Ukraine.
    I was not and I still remain no fan of Boris Johnson before or after he was elected as Conservative leader and PM, I voted for Jeremy Hunt in that leadership contest. But the idea that there was ever any inconsistency in his support for Ukraine is simple wrong, and for all his faults as a politician or PM, he saw and addressed the danger of an imminent Russian invasion of Ukriane along with the US when some of their European counterparts refused to listen because of their 'very poor' intelligence which left them not only totally wrong footed when Russian did invaded Ukraine, but also left them humiliated because they didn't listen to the US or the UK.

    But if I had to concede the one Foreign policy he got right and backed up in spades with his actions as UK PM, it was his early proactive response to the threat of a Russian invasion and thanks to listening to UK intelligence and acting on upon it and then seeing this through afterwards with equally clear early and sustained UK support provided for Ukraine before and after the Russian invasion. For all his previous and subsequent faults as a politician and a party leader and PM here in the UK, there is no doubt that he was incredibe highly regarded in Ukraine for his early and sustained strong support when it really mattered when his was PM.
    According to Dominic Cummings, Boris supported Ukraine in order to distract attention from the various -gates he was embroiled in. Of course, #ClassicDom might not be an unbiased observer and Boris could have had more than one reason to support Ukraine.
    To be fair to Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings is also a fluent liar and while observant has a tendency to fit facts to his own beliefs about what should have happened rather than to reality, as befits a man who believes he is the cream of his own 'intelligentsia.'

    So I am willing to suggest we give Johnson the benefit of the doubt here.
    We have to simply because we have no tangible evidence to the contrary. We cannot read Johnson's mind. On the other hand we do have an insight into why he reached any positive conclusion, namely it benefitted Johnson. So was this a unique example of altruism in a life of self gratification, or is Cummings telling the truth?
    The latter would be a unique example too...

    As a general rule, assume Cummings is lying or mistaken unless you have hard evidence to the contrary.
    So the dilemma is one of who is most likely to tell the truth over a question of Johnsonian altruism? Hmmm...
    I think it is eminently possible Johnson had ulterior motives. For example, it is quite possible he was supporting Ukraine out of his obsession with Churchill and his desire to live up to him. Seeing himself as the anti-appeaser resisting Fascism and leading Britain in war may well have appealed to his self-importance.

    I think it also eminently possible that Cummings is still lying about what those motives were - possibly without even realising it as one of Cummings' most notable features is his ability to deceive himself.
    The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton was never more right than when he said Dominic Cummings is a psychopath.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,039

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Bit in Italics -

    Labour have been in power in Wales for 26 years. Admittedly that's included two periods in coalition.

    Updated the header now. How could I forget about Wales?
    As a Welshman I would love to be able to forget Welsh Labour.

    I've also kept updating my own comment...
    I think it is time for Welsh Labour to bring back Mark Drakeford.
    Ah hem, I think you mean "the Drake".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,885

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Say what you like about Boris Johnson's many failings but he is still holding the line on supporting Ukraine.

    Mind you he was rooting for a Trump win last November. That raises an inconsistency in his support for Ukraine.
    I was not and I still remain no fan of Boris Johnson before or after he was elected as Conservative leader and PM, I voted for Jeremy Hunt in that leadership contest. But the idea that there was ever any inconsistency in his support for Ukraine is simple wrong, and for all his faults as a politician or PM, he saw and addressed the danger of an imminent Russian invasion of Ukriane along with the US when some of their European counterparts refused to listen because of their 'very poor' intelligence which left them not only totally wrong footed when Russian did invaded Ukraine, but also left them humiliated because they didn't listen to the US or the UK.

    But if I had to concede the one Foreign policy he got right and backed up in spades with his actions as UK PM, it was his early proactive response to the threat of a Russian invasion and thanks to listening to UK intelligence and acting on upon it and then seeing this through afterwards with equally clear early and sustained UK support provided for Ukraine before and after the Russian invasion. For all his previous and subsequent faults as a politician and a party leader and PM here in the UK, there is no doubt that he was incredibe highly regarded in Ukraine for his early and sustained strong support when it really mattered when his was PM.
    According to Dominic Cummings, Boris supported Ukraine in order to distract attention from the various -gates he was embroiled in. Of course, #ClassicDom might not be an unbiased observer and Boris could have had more than one reason to support Ukraine.
    To be fair to Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings is also a fluent liar and while observant has a tendency to fit facts to his own beliefs about what should have happened rather than to reality, as befits a man who believes he is the cream of his own 'intelligentsia.'

    So I am willing to suggest we give Johnson the benefit of the doubt here.
    We have to simply because we have no tangible evidence to the contrary. We cannot read Johnson's mind. On the other hand we do have an insight into why he reached any positive conclusion, namely it benefitted Johnson. So was this a unique example of altruism in a life of self gratification, or is Cummings telling the truth?
    The latter would be a unique example too...

    As a general rule, assume Cummings is lying or mistaken unless you have hard evidence to the contrary.
    So the dilemma is one of who is most likely to tell the truth over a question of Johnsonian altruism? Hmmm...
    I think it is eminently possible Johnson had ulterior motives. For example, it is quite possible he was supporting Ukraine out of his obsession with Churchill and his desire to live up to him. Seeing himself as the anti-appeaser resisting Fascism and leading Britain in war may well have appealed to his self-importance.

    I think it also eminently possible that Cummings is still lying about what those motives were - possibly without even realising it as one of Cummings' most notable features is his ability to deceive himself.
    The Right Honourable The Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton was never more right than we he said Dominic Cummings is a psychopath.
    Although that was just a bit harsh on psychopaths.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724
    edited August 17
    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    You would only be able to that physically in a Scottish bookmaker (unless you found an English bookie willing to take McMonopoly money).
    At least you wouldn’t need to worry about collecting winnings.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300
    edited August 17
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Say what you like about Boris Johnson's many failings but he is still holding the line on supporting Ukraine.

    Mind you he was rooting for a Trump win last November. That raises an inconsistency in his support for Ukraine.
    I was not and I still remain no fan of Boris Johnson before or after he was elected as Conservative leader and PM, I voted for Jeremy Hunt in that leadership contest. But the idea that there was ever any inconsistency in his support for Ukraine is simple wrong, and for all his faults as a politician or PM, he saw and addressed the danger of an imminent Russian invasion of Ukriane along with the US when some of their European counterparts refused to listen because of their 'very poor' intelligence which left them not only totally wrong footed when Russian did invaded Ukraine, but also left them humiliated because they didn't listen to the US or the UK.

    But if I had to concede the one Foreign policy he got right and backed up in spades with his actions as UK PM, it was his early proactive response to the threat of a Russian invasion and thanks to listening to UK intelligence and acting on upon it and then seeing this through afterwards with equally clear early and sustained UK support provided for Ukraine before and after the Russian invasion. For all his previous and subsequent faults as a politician and a party leader and PM here in the UK, there is no doubt that he was incredibe highly regarded in Ukraine for his early and sustained strong support when it really mattered when his was PM.
    According to Dominic Cummings, Boris supported Ukraine in order to distract attention from the various -gates he was embroiled in. Of course, #ClassicDom might not be an unbiased observer and Boris could have had more than one reason to support Ukraine.
    To be fair to Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings is also a fluent liar and while observant has a tendency to fit facts to his own beliefs about what should have happened rather than to reality, as befits a man who believes he is the cream of his own 'intelligentsia.'

    So I am willing to suggest we give Johnson the benefit of the doubt here.
    We have to simply because we have no tangible evidence to the contrary. We cannot read Johnson's mind. On the other hand we do have an insight into why he reached any positive conclusion, namely it benefitted Johnson. So was this a unique example of altruism in a life of self gratification, or is Cummings telling the truth?
    The latter would be a unique example too...

    As a general rule, assume Cummings is lying or mistaken unless you have hard evidence to the contrary.
    So the dilemma is one of who is most likely to tell the truth over a question of Johnsonian altruism? Hmmm...
    I think it is eminently possible Johnson had ulterior motives. For example, it is quite possible he was supporting Ukraine out of his obsession with Churchill and his desire to live up to him. Seeing himself as the anti-appeaser resisting Fascism and leading Britain in war may well have appealed to his self-importance.

    I think it also eminently possible that Cummings is still lying about what those motives were - possibly without even realising it as one of Cummings' most notable features is his ability to deceive himself.
    There was a time 'Boris Johnson blamed EU for Russia’s 2014 attacks on Ukraine and was branded ‘Putin apologist’'

    So you maybe right.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-ukraine-russia-brexit-b2024817.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300
    edited August 17
    ydoethur said:

    Ah, an SNP thread.

    I would never have guessed from the title.

    The headline wasn't even the most subtle thing in this piece.

    I do not expect Labour’s red rose to be the flower of Scotland at next year’s election.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,362
    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300
    edited August 17
    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724
    Mind you these lads look likely Reformers. If they kill enough voters for other parties Reform might have a chance.


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,885

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
    Bribes paid to Scottish nobles to vote for it:

    Montrose £200
    Roxburgh £500
    Atholl £1000
    Marchmont £1104 15s 6d
    Cromartie £300
    Balcarres £500
    Dunmore £200
    Glencairn £100
    Seafield (also Lord Chancellor) £490
    Banff £11 2s (cheapskate)

    They essentially bartered their votes for enough money to cover their losses over the Darien disaster. The common people were less enthusiastic, and the Treaty was burned in Dumfries.

    I find Harley's comment as Secretary of State on the subject of an unpopular linen tax amusing: 'But Mr Speaker, having bought the Scots, did we not also acquire the right to tax them?'
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,550

    Mind you these lads look likely Reformers. If they kill enough voters for other parties Reform might have a chance.


    Is that the queue for Ibrox?
  • AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 3,836
    It's certainly an achievement, even if it has a great deal to do with They may not be very good, but at least they're our not-very-good.

    Good morning, everyone.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300
    ydoethur said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
    Bribes paid to Scottish nobles to vote for it:

    Montrose £200
    Roxburgh £500
    Atholl £1000
    Marchmont £1104 15s 6d
    Cromartie £300
    Balcarres £500
    Dunmore £200
    Glencairn £100
    Seafield (also Lord Chancellor) £490
    Banff £11 2s (cheapskate)

    They essentially bartered their votes for enough money to cover their losses over the Darien disaster. The common people were less enthusiastic, and the Treaty was burned in Dumfries.

    I find Harley's comment as Secretary of State on the subject of an unpopular linen tax amusing: 'But Mr Speaker, having bought the Scots, did we not also acquire the right to tax them?'
    I meant the first time the common folk of Scotland had the chance to endorse the Union of the Crowns, 55% endorsed it.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,575
    SNP vote down 11% on regional vote and 15% on constituency vote on latest poll since 2021 though and a Unionist majority looks likely

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,445
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Say what you like about Boris Johnson's many failings but he is still holding the line on supporting Ukraine.

    Mind you he was rooting for a Trump win last November. That raises an inconsistency in his support for Ukraine.
    I was not and I still remain no fan of Boris Johnson before or after he was elected as Conservative leader and PM, I voted for Jeremy Hunt in that leadership contest. But the idea that there was ever any inconsistency in his support for Ukraine is simple wrong, and for all his faults as a politician or PM, he saw and addressed the danger of an imminent Russian invasion of Ukriane along with the US when some of their European counterparts refused to listen because of their 'very poor' intelligence which left them not only totally wrong footed when Russian did invaded Ukraine, but also left them humiliated because they didn't listen to the US or the UK.

    But if I had to concede the one Foreign policy he got right and backed up in spades with his actions as UK PM, it was his early proactive response to the threat of a Russian invasion and thanks to listening to UK intelligence and acting on upon it and then seeing this through afterwards with equally clear early and sustained UK support provided for Ukraine before and after the Russian invasion. For all his previous and subsequent faults as a politician and a party leader and PM here in the UK, there is no doubt that he was incredibe highly regarded in Ukraine for his early and sustained strong support when it really mattered when his was PM.
    According to Dominic Cummings, Boris supported Ukraine in order to distract attention from the various -gates he was embroiled in. Of course, #ClassicDom might not be an unbiased observer and Boris could have had more than one reason to support Ukraine.
    To be fair to Boris Johnson, Dominic Cummings is also a fluent liar and while observant has a tendency to fit facts to his own beliefs about what should have happened rather than to reality, as befits a man who believes he is the cream of his own 'intelligentsia.'

    So I am willing to suggest we give Johnson the benefit of the doubt here.
    We have to simply because we have no tangible evidence to the contrary. We cannot read Johnson's mind. On the other hand we do have an insight into why he reached any positive conclusion, namely it benefitted Johnson. So was this a unique example of altruism in a life of self gratification, or is Cummings telling the truth?
    The latter would be a unique example too...

    As a general rule, assume Cummings is lying or mistaken unless you have hard evidence to the contrary.
    So the dilemma is one of who is most likely to tell the truth over a question of Johnsonian altruism? Hmmm...
    I think it is eminently possible Johnson had ulterior motives. For example, it is quite possible he was supporting Ukraine out of his obsession with Churchill and his desire to live up to him. Seeing himself as the anti-appeaser resisting Fascism and leading Britain in war may well have appealed to his self-importance.

    I think it also eminently possible that Cummings is still lying about what those motives were - possibly without even realising it as one of Cummings' most notable features is his ability to deceive himself.
    Besides, by the time of the Ukraine invasion, part 2, Cummings was well into his "Boris Johnson, what a bad man" phase.

    Has DC ever mea culpa-ed for foisting him on the British people?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,828

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    The censorship of a YouGov tweet regarding polling, the possibility of Wikipedia not working in the UK any more, and the idiocy of needing to verify age just to send a Blue Sky DM now are things that will cut through rather more than "If you oppose our terribly designed censorship law then you want kids to DIE and BE HURT!!! Every VPN usage causes an orphan's head to fall off!""
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,575
    ydoethur said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
    Bribes paid to Scottish nobles to vote for it:

    Montrose £200
    Roxburgh £500
    Atholl £1000
    Marchmont £1104 15s 6d
    Cromartie £300
    Balcarres £500
    Dunmore £200
    Glencairn £100
    Seafield (also Lord Chancellor) £490
    Banff £11 2s (cheapskate)

    They essentially bartered their votes for enough money to cover their losses over the Darien disaster. The common people were less enthusiastic, and the Treaty was burned in Dumfries.

    I find Harley's comment as Secretary of State on the subject of an unpopular linen tax amusing: 'But Mr Speaker, having bought the Scots, did we not also acquire the right to tax them?'
    It was the Scottish Parliament which asked the English Parliament for the Union after the Darien Scheme failure and of course the common people did not have a vote in Scotland or England until at least the late 19th century
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,348
    HYUFD said:

    SNP vote down 11% on regional vote and 15% on constituency vote on latest poll since 2021 though and a Unionist majority looks likely

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election

    That is to accept the SNP's framing of Scottish elections as unionist versus nationalist. The SNP's decline suggests this is no longer voters' main concern and might presage the renormalisation of politics.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,575

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    Families in marginal seats, 69% of voters back age verification to access adult websites

    https://yougov.co.uk/technology/articles/52693-how-have-britons-reacted-to-age-verification
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,348
    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724

    Mind you these lads look likely Reformers. If they kill enough voters for other parties Reform might have a chance.


    Is that the queue for Ibrox?
    Chance of a fairly large subset I imagine.
    Quite like the idea of one of those yaks being interviewed by the polis and responding that they're scholars of the Albigensian Crusade and were merely displaying their scholarship.
  • DoctorGDoctorG Posts: 137
    HYUFD said:

    SNP vote down 11% on regional vote and 15% on constituency vote on latest poll since 2021 though and a Unionist majority looks likely

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election

    Currently the SNP have a 11-12 point lead in the constituency vote, and (at least) a 4-5 point lead over Slab in the regional vote. I don't expect SNP to get the 64 seats they did last time, but on current figures the alternative would be a grouping between Slab, Scon, Lib, Reform, and potentially green votes to survive.

    Best bet at what happens is SNP win shed loads of central belt constituencies again, enough to put Mr Swinney in a very strong position to negotiate retaining power.

    Say SNP get 55 seats. Difficult to portray that as losing if your nearest rival has 38.

    Slabs best bet is to lower the gap in the constituency vote to very low single figures, they would then start winning central belt constituencies where their vote is most concentrated.

    We are a mile away from that just now, things can change but Slab haven't led either vote in almost a year.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,901
    edited August 17
    ydoethur said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
    Bribes paid to Scottish nobles to vote for it:

    Montrose £200
    Roxburgh £500
    Atholl £1000
    Marchmont £1104 15s 6d
    Cromartie £300
    Balcarres £500
    Dunmore £200
    Glencairn £100
    Seafield (also Lord Chancellor) £490
    Banff £11 2s (cheapskate)

    They essentially bartered their votes for enough money to cover their losses over the Darien disaster. The common people were less enthusiastic, and the Treaty was burned in Dumfries.

    I find Harley's comment as Secretary of State on the subject of an unpopular linen tax amusing: 'But Mr Speaker, having bought the Scots, did we not also acquire the right to tax them?'
    They had to evacuate the Parliament because the mass public reaction was so dangerous. The place where they had to hide to do the deed is still extant, down in the University buildings off Canongate - what used to be Moray House teacher training place.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,348
    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    Families in marginal seats, 69% of voters back age verification to access adult websites

    https://yougov.co.uk/technology/articles/52693-how-have-britons-reacted-to-age-verification
    Yes, that is the paradox. Most (except perhaps a few free speech zealots) want to protect children from harmful content on the interwebs.

    Most experts are agreed that the OSA is stupid, counterproductive, easily worked around, dangerous and increases risks.

    Nor is there any obvious connection with the three main cases thrown up by OSA's increasingly desperate defenders. Jimmy Savile assaulted girls in the flesh, not online. Peter Kyle's concern about the genuine risk of grooming in online forums has nothing to do with porn sites or age verification. And now revenge porn which was banned 10 years ago.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,575

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    Families in marginal seats, 69% of voters back age verification to access adult websites

    https://yougov.co.uk/technology/articles/52693-how-have-britons-reacted-to-age-verification
    Yes, that is the paradox. Most (except perhaps a few free speech zealots) want to protect children from harmful content on the interwebs.

    Most experts are agreed that the OSA is stupid, counterproductive, easily worked around, dangerous and increases risks.

    Nor is there any obvious connection with the three main cases thrown up by OSA's increasingly desperate defenders. Jimmy Savile assaulted girls in the flesh, not online. Peter Kyle's concern about the genuine risk of grooming in online forums has nothing to do with porn sites or age verification. And now revenge porn which was banned 10 years ago.
    It does stop young children accidentally viewing pornographic or violent images though
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,575
    DoctorG said:

    HYUFD said:

    SNP vote down 11% on regional vote and 15% on constituency vote on latest poll since 2021 though and a Unionist majority looks likely

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election

    Currently the SNP have a 11-12 point lead in the constituency vote, and (at least) a 4-5 point lead over Slab in the regional vote. I don't expect SNP to get the 64 seats they did last time, but on current figures the alternative would be a grouping between Slab, Scon, Lib, Reform, and potentially green votes to survive.

    Best bet at what happens is SNP win shed loads of central belt constituencies again, enough to put Mr Swinney in a very strong position to negotiate retaining power.

    Say SNP get 55 seats. Difficult to portray that as losing if your nearest rival has 38.

    Slabs best bet is to lower the gap in the constituency vote to very low single figures, they would then start winning central belt constituencies where their vote is most concentrated.

    We are a mile away from that just now, things can change but Slab haven't led either vote in almost a year.
    The SNP will return to power with most seats of course but still lose seats and as Unionists will win most MSPs on most polls Swinney will be completely neutered on the independence issue
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724

    ydoethur said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
    Bribes paid to Scottish nobles to vote for it:

    Montrose £200
    Roxburgh £500
    Atholl £1000
    Marchmont £1104 15s 6d
    Cromartie £300
    Balcarres £500
    Dunmore £200
    Glencairn £100
    Seafield (also Lord Chancellor) £490
    Banff £11 2s (cheapskate)

    They essentially bartered their votes for enough money to cover their losses over the Darien disaster. The common people were less enthusiastic, and the Treaty was burned in Dumfries.

    I find Harley's comment as Secretary of State on the subject of an unpopular linen tax amusing: 'But Mr Speaker, having bought the Scots, did we not also acquire the right to tax them?'
    I meant the first time the common folk of Scotland had the chance to endorse the Union of the Crowns, 55% endorsed it.
    Them ungrateful Jocks are never done asking for neverendums, more than one vote in 318 years is sheer self indulgence.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,828
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    Families in marginal seats, 69% of voters back age verification to access adult websites

    https://yougov.co.uk/technology/articles/52693-how-have-britons-reacted-to-age-verification
    Yes, that is the paradox. Most (except perhaps a few free speech zealots) want to protect children from harmful content on the interwebs.

    Most experts are agreed that the OSA is stupid, counterproductive, easily worked around, dangerous and increases risks.

    Nor is there any obvious connection with the three main cases thrown up by OSA's increasingly desperate defenders. Jimmy Savile assaulted girls in the flesh, not online. Peter Kyle's concern about the genuine risk of grooming in online forums has nothing to do with porn sites or age verification. And now revenge porn which was banned 10 years ago.
    It does stop young children accidentally viewing pornographic or violent images though
    You could blind every child and stop them seeing pornographic or violent images. Or make using the internet illegal.

    Taking cyanide prevents obesity getting worse, but that doesn't mean it's a great treatment plan.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,828

    ydoethur said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
    Bribes paid to Scottish nobles to vote for it:

    Montrose £200
    Roxburgh £500
    Atholl £1000
    Marchmont £1104 15s 6d
    Cromartie £300
    Balcarres £500
    Dunmore £200
    Glencairn £100
    Seafield (also Lord Chancellor) £490
    Banff £11 2s (cheapskate)

    They essentially bartered their votes for enough money to cover their losses over the Darien disaster. The common people were less enthusiastic, and the Treaty was burned in Dumfries.

    I find Harley's comment as Secretary of State on the subject of an unpopular linen tax amusing: 'But Mr Speaker, having bought the Scots, did we not also acquire the right to tax them?'
    I meant the first time the common folk of Scotland had the chance to endorse the Union of the Crowns, 55% endorsed it.
    Them ungrateful Jocks are never done asking for neverendums, more than one vote in 318 years is sheer self indulgence.
    The last referendum was rather more recent than that. You're not seeking two in 318 years, you're seeking two in 12.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,503
    X
    Sunday Mail@Sunday_Mail
    Here is your first look at tomorrow's Sunday Mail front page, which leads on Alex Salmond’s widow suing the Scottish Government over its botched sexual harassment probe into her late husband.
    https://x.com/Sunday_Mail/status/1956822236217925915


    For Women Scotland@ForWomenScot
    We are taking @scotgov back to court.
    We have been left with little choice as the Gov has refused to quash school & prison guidance. Papers have been served & the Gov has 21 days to respond.
    https://x.com/ForWomenScot/status/1956801580956610672


  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 6,015

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    Families in marginal seats, 69% of voters back age verification to access adult websites

    https://yougov.co.uk/technology/articles/52693-how-have-britons-reacted-to-age-verification
    Yes, that is the paradox. Most (except perhaps a few free speech zealots) want to protect children from harmful content on the interwebs.

    Most experts are agreed that the OSA is stupid, counterproductive, easily worked around, dangerous and increases risks.

    Nor is there any obvious connection with the three main cases thrown up by OSA's increasingly desperate defenders. Jimmy Savile assaulted girls in the flesh, not online. Peter Kyle's concern about the genuine risk of grooming in online forums has nothing to do with porn sites or age verification. And now revenge porn which was banned 10 years ago.
    It does stop young children accidentally viewing pornographic or violent images though
    You could blind every child and stop them seeing pornographic or violent images. Or make using the internet illegal.

    Taking cyanide prevents obesity getting worse, but that doesn't mean it's a great treatment plan.
    The attitude in our house which our kids understand is that we’re not stopping them getting access to the internet. We are stopping the internet getting access to them. I am not usually one for banning things but I’d implement an immediate smart phone and social media bans on all under 16s and be done with it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724

    ydoethur said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
    Bribes paid to Scottish nobles to vote for it:

    Montrose £200
    Roxburgh £500
    Atholl £1000
    Marchmont £1104 15s 6d
    Cromartie £300
    Balcarres £500
    Dunmore £200
    Glencairn £100
    Seafield (also Lord Chancellor) £490
    Banff £11 2s (cheapskate)

    They essentially bartered their votes for enough money to cover their losses over the Darien disaster. The common people were less enthusiastic, and the Treaty was burned in Dumfries.

    I find Harley's comment as Secretary of State on the subject of an unpopular linen tax amusing: 'But Mr Speaker, having bought the Scots, did we not also acquire the right to tax them?'
    I meant the first time the common folk of Scotland had the chance to endorse the Union of the Crowns, 55% endorsed it.
    Them ungrateful Jocks are never done asking for neverendums, more than one vote in 318 years is sheer self indulgence.
    The last referendum was rather more recent than that. You're not seeking two in 318 years, you're seeking two in 12.
    The only referendum I'm sure you meant to write, shortly followed by another one that negated a basic tenet of the Better Together campaign.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,866
    edited August 17
    I wrote on the previous thread how much I was enjoying the audiobook of Nicola Sturgeon titled 'Frankly'. Turbotubbs replied

    "I'm amazed she recalls enough to write an essay, let alone a book. A mendacious, devious liar who tried to frame Alec Salmond, played politics over COVID and is married to a man charged with embezzling money from the party she led. Someone who believes men in a dress ought to be in a woman's prison because of them saying they are a woman"

    All I can say knowing less about her than you obviously do is that I've always been a fan and this book hasn't changed that. I've long admired her values and her loathing of racism and prejudice which is evident throughout the book and was in all her appearances. Scottish politics is clearly a bear pit and how she managed to navigate it has to be admired and respected. I have to say despite her tough gal exterior I find it quite moving and for anyone wanting to know more about Scottish politics I can't think of a better place to start
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,348
    Mirror and Express targeted for takeover that would sack a third of journalists
    More than 850 jobs at risk as David Montgomery revives swoop on news publisher Reach

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/08/16/mirror-express-targeted-takeover-sack-third-of-journalists/ (£££)
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,503
    HYUFD said:

    DoctorG said:

    HYUFD said:

    SNP vote down 11% on regional vote and 15% on constituency vote on latest poll since 2021 though and a Unionist majority looks likely

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election

    Currently the SNP have a 11-12 point lead in the constituency vote, and (at least) a 4-5 point lead over Slab in the regional vote. I don't expect SNP to get the 64 seats they did last time, but on current figures the alternative would be a grouping between Slab, Scon, Lib, Reform, and potentially green votes to survive.

    Best bet at what happens is SNP win shed loads of central belt constituencies again, enough to put Mr Swinney in a very strong position to negotiate retaining power.

    Say SNP get 55 seats. Difficult to portray that as losing if your nearest rival has 38.

    Slabs best bet is to lower the gap in the constituency vote to very low single figures, they would then start winning central belt constituencies where their vote is most concentrated.

    We are a mile away from that just now, things can change but Slab haven't led either vote in almost a year.
    The SNP will return to power with most seats of course but still lose seats and as Unionists will win most MSPs on most polls Swinney will be completely neutered on the independence issue
    The main reason that the SNP administration at Holyrood is cynically dragging their feet when it comes to acknowledging and recognising the Supreme Court judgment won by Women for Scotland is because they are very mindful of the need to keep both the Scottish Greens and the Scottish Libdems on board if they have to seek coalition deals following next years Holyrood election.
  • scampi25scampi25 Posts: 220

    Mind you these lads look likely Reformers. If they kill enough voters for other parties Reform might have a chance.


    Where's the banner saying "slit their throats " oh wait...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,332
    HYUFD said:

    SNP vote down 11% on regional vote and 15% on constituency vote on latest poll since 2021 though and a Unionist majority looks likely

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election

    Yes, but the likelihood of a Labour, Conservative, Lib Dem, Reform coalition to keep the SNP out is even less likely than @TSE being seen in public wearing Primark trainers.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724
    Roger said:

    I wrote on the previous thread how much I was enjoying the audiobook of Nicola Sturgeon titled 'Frankly'. Turbotubbs replied

    "I'm amazed she recalls enough to write an essay, let alone a book. A mendacious, devious liar who tried to frame Alec Salmond, played politics over COVID and is married to a man charged with embezzling money from the party she led. Someone who believes men in a dress ought to be in a woman's prison because of them saying they are a woman"

    All I can say knowing less about her than you obviously do is that I've always been an admirer and this book hasn't changed that. I've always admired her values and her loathing of racism and prejudice of any sort which is evident throughout the book and was in all her appearances. Scottish politis is clearly a bear pit and how she managed to navigate it has to be admired and respected. I have to say despite her tough gal exterior I find it quite moving and for anyone wanting to know more about Scottish politics I can't think of a better place to start

    The transformation of Alex Salmond from loathed enemy to martyred hero for English (and Scottish) Unionists is quite remarkable.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,550
    fitalass said:

    X
    Sunday Mail@Sunday_Mail
    Here is your first look at tomorrow's Sunday Mail front page, which leads on Alex Salmond’s widow suing the Scottish Government over its botched sexual harassment probe into her late husband.
    https://x.com/Sunday_Mail/status/1956822236217925915


    For Women Scotland@ForWomenScot
    We are taking @scotgov back to court.
    We have been left with little choice as the Gov has refused to quash school & prison guidance. Papers have been served & the Gov has 21 days to respond.
    https://x.com/ForWomenScot/status/1956801580956610672


    I know it is poor form to speak ill of the dead, nonetheless:

    Botched? In so much as he was acquitted.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Yes

    SNP is a risk. To make any money at 1/6 you’d have to pile on. I don’t believe, in these volatile times, they are a dead certainty

    Reform at 12/1 is generous
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,550

    Mirror and Express targeted for takeover that would sack a third of journalists
    More than 850 jobs at risk as David Montgomery revives swoop on news publisher Reach

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/08/16/mirror-express-targeted-takeover-sack-third-of-journalists/ (£££)

    A former Editor of the News of the World no less. What could possibly go wrong?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,901

    fitalass said:

    X
    Sunday Mail@Sunday_Mail
    Here is your first look at tomorrow's Sunday Mail front page, which leads on Alex Salmond’s widow suing the Scottish Government over its botched sexual harassment probe into her late husband.
    https://x.com/Sunday_Mail/status/1956822236217925915


    For Women Scotland@ForWomenScot
    We are taking @scotgov back to court.
    We have been left with little choice as the Gov has refused to quash school & prison guidance. Papers have been served & the Gov has 21 days to respond.
    https://x.com/ForWomenScot/status/1956801580956610672


    I know it is poor form to speak ill of the dead, nonetheless:

    Botched? In so much as he was acquitted.
    May be talking of the Civil Service inquiry. I'm slightly confused, however, how she can 'sue' unless it is as his executor (e.g. for costs incurred) - unsure of the defamation situation, esp. if the perceived defamation happened before he died.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 44,901
    edited August 17
    fitalass said:

    HYUFD said:

    DoctorG said:

    HYUFD said:

    SNP vote down 11% on regional vote and 15% on constituency vote on latest poll since 2021 though and a Unionist majority looks likely

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_Scottish_Parliament_election

    Currently the SNP have a 11-12 point lead in the constituency vote, and (at least) a 4-5 point lead over Slab in the regional vote. I don't expect SNP to get the 64 seats they did last time, but on current figures the alternative would be a grouping between Slab, Scon, Lib, Reform, and potentially green votes to survive.

    Best bet at what happens is SNP win shed loads of central belt constituencies again, enough to put Mr Swinney in a very strong position to negotiate retaining power.

    Say SNP get 55 seats. Difficult to portray that as losing if your nearest rival has 38.

    Slabs best bet is to lower the gap in the constituency vote to very low single figures, they would then start winning central belt constituencies where their vote is most concentrated.

    We are a mile away from that just now, things can change but Slab haven't led either vote in almost a year.
    The SNP will return to power with most seats of course but still lose seats and as Unionists will win most MSPs on most polls Swinney will be completely neutered on the independence issue
    The main reason that the SNP administration at Holyrood is cynically dragging their feet when it comes to acknowledging and recognising the Supreme Court judgment won by Women for Scotland is because they are very mindful of the need to keep both the Scottish Greens and the Scottish Libdems on board if they have to seek coalition deals following next years Holyrood election.
    Hang on, surely everyone in and furth of Scxotland is waiting on the EHRC :

    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10259/

    "In light of these representations and the level of public interest, the EHRC published an update on 14 May setting out further details of the consultation process. It said it would run from 19 May to 30 June, rather than for two weeks as originally proposed. It will focus on sections of the code of practice that require updating following the judgment. While the consultation is running, the EHRC will hold Q&A sessions with stakeholders representing affected protected characteristic groups.

    The consultation was published on 20 May. It closed on 30 June 2025. The EHRC is currently considering responses to the consultation. It will publish a revised Code of Practice in due course. This will be submitted to the Secretary of State and laid before Parliament before coming into force. "

    Edit: to do anything before that only invites challenges from one or other sides.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,280
    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    The more interesting thing to watch over the next couple of years will be what - if any - new jobs are created and/or in what areas there will be increased job demand.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    The more interesting thing to watch over the next couple of years will be what - if any - new jobs are created and/or in what areas there will be increased job demand.
    I fear there won’t be half - a quarter - as many created as will be destroyed. Coz of my amateur scribblings in this arena I’ve gained a couple of friends and online acquaintances who are very well informed hereto. Let’s just say one of them works in N1C

    And I have heard and seen scary things

    I say this with no pleasure at all. Quite the opposite. I have two daughters age 19. What will they do?!?
  • eekeek Posts: 30,946
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    The more interesting thing to watch over the next couple of years will be what - if any - new jobs are created and/or in what areas there will be increased job demand.
    The irony is that sat above the level where people are being impacted - the quality of what most AI generates is roughly that of an unmotivated, unmanaged indian graduate outsourced dev.

    There was a survey earlier this year that showed giving AI to developers made them think they were more productive but when you looked at what they did they were actually less productive.

    I suspect the reason why computer science jobs are fewer is that the economy isn't great so a lot of firms aren't investing money (and software isn't a cheap investment, it requires spending a lot of money up front and management finding time for people to identify what they want the system to do)
  • eekeek Posts: 30,946
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Yes

    SNP is a risk. To make any money at 1/6 you’d have to pile on. I don’t believe, in these volatile times, they are a dead certainty

    Reform at 12/1 is generous
    the SNP have a unique selling point in Scotland. All the other parties are fishing in the same - be part of the UK pond...

    Hence I can see the SNP easily winning on 30-35% while the other parties win more votes between them but very few constituency seats.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,946
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    The more interesting thing to watch over the next couple of years will be what - if any - new jobs are created and/or in what areas there will be increased job demand.
    I fear there won’t be half - a quarter - as many created as will be destroyed. Coz of my amateur scribblings in this arena I’ve gained a couple of friends and online acquaintances who are very well informed hereto. Let’s just say one of them works in N1C

    And I have heard and seen scary things

    I say this with no pleasure at all. Quite the opposite. I have two daughters age 19. What will they do?!?
    Get a trade
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,550
    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    But surely those on the top floor are insulated from the fire.

    So according to you we are entering a dystopian world where only the Captains of industry can make a living. Everyone else has been replaced by machines.

    If only the top two or three percent remain earning, we won't even need baristas and burger flippers for the hoi poloi, as no one will be able to afford burgers and coffee.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    But surely those on the top floor are insulated from the fire.

    So according to you we are entering a dystopian world where only the Captains of industry can make a living. Everyone else has been replaced by machines.

    If only the top two or three percent remain earning, we won't even need baristas and burger flippers for the hoi poloi, as no one will be able to afford burgers and coffee.
    In the end I fear it will come for almost everyone (me included, certainly in the knapping trade)

    I’d offer some startling concrete examples from very recent days, but I am hesitant as I don’t want to get banned. So I guess I can’t

    Anyway, good morning everyone

    It’s a bright fresh sunny morning here on the rugged frontiers of Primrose Hill. Rather pleasant after the relentless heat (by UK standards)



  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,503
    Roger said:

    I wrote on the previous thread how much I was enjoying the audiobook of Nicola Sturgeon titled 'Frankly'. Turbotubbs replied

    "I'm amazed she recalls enough to write an essay, let alone a book. A mendacious, devious liar who tried to frame Alec Salmond, played politics over COVID and is married to a man charged with embezzling money from the party she led. Someone who believes men in a dress ought to be in a woman's prison because of them saying they are a woman"

    All I can say knowing less about her than you obviously do is that I've always been an admirer and this book hasn't changed that. I've always admired her values and her loathing of racism and prejudice of any sort which is evident throughout the book and was in all her appearances. Scottish politis is clearly a bear pit and how she managed to navigate it has to be admired and respected. I have to say despite her tough gal exterior I find it quite moving and for anyone wanting to know more about Scottish politics I can't think of a better place to start

    Seriously, have you turned into a parody account on this site, or are you just in the mood to troll the rest of us on a lazy Sunday morning?! I cannot think of a more dishonest tribally divisive figure in Scottish politics than Nicola Sturgeon, but then I shouldn't probable be surprised to discover you are so tin eared you totally missed the incredible cross party feminist backlash that has gathered against her after she dismissed women's concerns over protecting female only safe spaces/GRR Bill as not valid.

    Her memoir is badly researched and glosses over or totally forgets to mention or address the worst scandals under her stewardship as FM and leader of the SNP as she tries to cynically reinvent her public persona in preparation for her post front line politics career.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,946

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    But surely those on the top floor are insulated from the fire.

    So according to you we are entering a dystopian world where only the Captains of industry can make a living. Everyone else has been replaced by machines.

    If only the top two or three percent remain earning, we won't even need baristas and burger flippers for the hoi poloi, as no one will be able to afford burgers and coffee.
    There is an irony here in that the LLM models that Leon loves are seriously unprofitable and show little chance of every becoming profitable...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,300
    edited August 17

    ydoethur said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
    Bribes paid to Scottish nobles to vote for it:

    Montrose £200
    Roxburgh £500
    Atholl £1000
    Marchmont £1104 15s 6d
    Cromartie £300
    Balcarres £500
    Dunmore £200
    Glencairn £100
    Seafield (also Lord Chancellor) £490
    Banff £11 2s (cheapskate)

    They essentially bartered their votes for enough money to cover their losses over the Darien disaster. The common people were less enthusiastic, and the Treaty was burned in Dumfries.

    I find Harley's comment as Secretary of State on the subject of an unpopular linen tax amusing: 'But Mr Speaker, having bought the Scots, did we not also acquire the right to tax them?'
    I meant the first time the common folk of Scotland had the chance to endorse the Union of the Crowns, 55% endorsed it.
    Them ungrateful Jocks are never done asking for neverendums, more than one vote in 318 years is sheer self indulgence.
    That’s still one more plebiscite than the English have had on the Union of the Crowns.

    You can have your second plebiscite once England has had her first plebiscite on this topic.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Yes

    SNP is a risk. To make any money at 1/6 you’d have to pile on. I don’t believe, in these volatile times, they are a dead certainty

    Reform at 12/1 is generous
    the SNP have a unique selling point in Scotland. All the other parties are fishing in the same - be part of the UK pond...

    Hence I can see the SNP easily winning on 30-35% while the other parties win more votes between them but very few constituency seats.
    But Reform are surging everywhere

    And all it takes for the SNP to plunge is for a lot of Indy supporters to think “ok I still want Indy, but THIS is more important for now, Indy can wait”

    If THIS is migrants/asylum/woke wars, then Reform become the only option

    Not likely in Scotland. But not impossible
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,488
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    The more interesting thing to watch over the next couple of years will be what - if any - new jobs are created and/or in what areas there will be increased job demand.
    I fear there won’t be half - a quarter - as many created as will be destroyed. Coz of my amateur scribblings in this arena I’ve gained a couple of friends and online acquaintances who are very well informed hereto. Let’s just say one of them works in N1C

    And I have heard and seen scary things

    I say this with no pleasure at all. Quite the opposite. I have two daughters age 19. What will they do?!?
    Get a trade
    Good Morning Everybody! Pleasant summer sun here in Mid Essex today.

    My sons were discussing their children's work prospects on a family trip yesterday. Eldest's eldest, with a decent degree in history, is currently working as a barman, although apparently he is highly thought of and has been offered promotion. Does a career in hospitality management beckon?
    Younger's eldest is reading subjects (mainly) related to marine biology, although she seems to have no idea where that might lead. She's only in her first year though, so that may well change.
    And so it goes on.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,607
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    But surely those on the top floor are insulated from the fire.

    So according to you we are entering a dystopian world where only the Captains of industry can make a living. Everyone else has been replaced by machines.

    If only the top two or three percent remain earning, we won't even need baristas and burger flippers for the hoi poloi, as no one will be able to afford burgers and coffee.
    There is an irony here in that the LLM models that Leon loves are seriously unprofitable and show little chance of every becoming profitable...
    The only company making money from AI is Nividia, and only cos they sell shovels to those seeking AI gold
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,826
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    The more interesting thing to watch over the next couple of years will be what - if any - new jobs are created and/or in what areas there will be increased job demand.
    I fear there won’t be half - a quarter - as many created as will be destroyed. Coz of my amateur scribblings in this arena I’ve gained a couple of friends and online acquaintances who are very well informed hereto. Let’s just say one of them works in N1C

    And I have heard and seen scary things

    I say this with no pleasure at all. Quite the opposite. I have two daughters age 19. What will they do?!?
    Isn't this the usual fear for big tech advances though? The thing is, it's much easier to see ('extrapolate if we must) where jobs will go than where they'll be created. There are whole sectors now, ways of making a living, that just a few years ago wouldn't have been imagined. So I think that's something to factor into all this. One side is inherently easier to conceive (and to exaggerate) than the other.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,607
    eek said:

    The irony is that sat above the level where people are being impacted - the quality of what most AI generates is roughly that of an unmotivated, unmanaged indian graduate outsourced dev.

    There was of course a story recently about the 'AI' coding company who were in fact 'Actually Indians' writing code for minimum wage
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,572
    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Union of the Parliaments, surely. Union of the Crowns was in 1603.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    But surely those on the top floor are insulated from the fire.

    So according to you we are entering a dystopian world where only the Captains of industry can make a living. Everyone else has been replaced by machines.

    If only the top two or three percent remain earning, we won't even need baristas and burger flippers for the hoi poloi, as no one will be able to afford burgers and coffee.
    There is an irony here in that the LLM models that Leon loves are seriously unprofitable and show little chance of every becoming profitable...
    From the World Wide Web:

    “In the early railway age, probably the majority of companies went bust. Britain’s “railway mania” of the 1830s and 40s saw promoters raising fortunes on wild promises. Building railways was hugely expensive, competition was cutthroat, and traffic forecasts were often pure fantasy. Many branch lines to obscure towns never paid their way, and some companies paid dividends out of capital until the money ran out.

    The survivors - like the Liverpool & Manchester Railway - thrived, but dozens of smaller lines collapsed or were absorbed by stronger rivals. The same chaos unfolded in America, where the panic of 1837 sent early railroads into bankruptcy with alarming regularity. Railways changed the world, but the business was as risky and volatile as a gold rush.”
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 35,488
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Yes

    SNP is a risk. To make any money at 1/6 you’d have to pile on. I don’t believe, in these volatile times, they are a dead certainty

    Reform at 12/1 is generous
    the SNP have a unique selling point in Scotland. All the other parties are fishing in the same - be part of the UK pond...

    Hence I can see the SNP easily winning on 30-35% while the other parties win more votes between them but very few constituency seats.
    But Reform are surging everywhere

    And all it takes for the SNP to plunge is for a lot of Indy supporters to think “ok I still want Indy, but THIS is more important for now, Indy can wait”

    If THIS is migrants/asylum/woke wars, then Reform become the only option

    Not likely in Scotland. But not impossible
    Are Reform still "surging"? They didn't do so well in the last set of by-elections and they seem to be unable to defend many, at least, of the seats they won last time round..
    Yes they're still doing well, but maybe not quite so well.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724

    ydoethur said:

    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    Nah, when the Scots had the first opportunity to endorse the Union of the Crowns, they endorsed it, so it was no sell out.
    Bribes paid to Scottish nobles to vote for it:

    Montrose £200
    Roxburgh £500
    Atholl £1000
    Marchmont £1104 15s 6d
    Cromartie £300
    Balcarres £500
    Dunmore £200
    Glencairn £100
    Seafield (also Lord Chancellor) £490
    Banff £11 2s (cheapskate)

    They essentially bartered their votes for enough money to cover their losses over the Darien disaster. The common people were less enthusiastic, and the Treaty was burned in Dumfries.

    I find Harley's comment as Secretary of State on the subject of an unpopular linen tax amusing: 'But Mr Speaker, having bought the Scots, did we not also acquire the right to tax them?'
    I meant the first time the common folk of Scotland had the chance to endorse the Union of the Crowns, 55% endorsed it.
    Them ungrateful Jocks are never done asking for neverendums, more than one vote in 318 years is sheer self indulgence.
    That’s still one more plebiscite than the English have had on the Union of the Crowns.

    You can have your second plebiscite once England has had her first plebiscite on this topic.
    The crucial difference being if ‘English’ governing parties put it in their manifestos it’ll happen. In that unlikely event I’m confident England will put the pleb into plebiscite.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,495

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    This way-over-the-top defending of the OSA by the government, trying to portray anyone who disagrees with this particular approach as being a friend of perverts and pedophiles, is likely to backfire spectacularly.

    Comments about Farage in particular are going to embolden his supporters.

    In case we need reminding, it was a backlash to the extreme wokery and gender stuff that got Trump re-elected, and it’s not impossible that the same could happen in the UK. Today’s polling replicated in a GE gives us Farage as PM.

    The government got lucky with the Women Scotland case in the Supreme Court, and Starmer’s lawyerly view appears to be that the court has spoken so that’s the end of the matter, but there’s still nearly four years to go and the activists love the woke stuff, as well as other parties to the left of Labour (Greens, Corbynites, Gazans etc.) who are even more extreme on this stuff and think that the only immigration problem is that there isn’t enough of it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,737
    Just back from two very pleasant weeks in the auld country. No doubt the SNP have presided over many failures (we experienced a little of the ferry issues firsthand) but at the same time my sense from all my interactions was of a country at ease with itself. Local facilities were largely well maintained, even the most isolated social housing estates seemed recently painted and there was a general hum of cheerfulness about the place. If I were a Scottish resident I'm not sure I'd be desperate to turf out the Nats.
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,359

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    So you’re now either pro Revenge Porn or pro the OSA.

    Now wonder labour are floundering.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,826

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    Well it's targeted at Reform supporters so, you know.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 55,572
    Scott_xP said:

    eek said:

    The irony is that sat above the level where people are being impacted - the quality of what most AI generates is roughly that of an unmotivated, unmanaged indian graduate outsourced dev.

    There was of course a story recently about the 'AI' coding company who were in fact 'Actually Indians' writing code for minimum wage
    "Indian Fatigue: The Issue Spreading Across the World"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4dMtLPoVjI

    "We’ve been hearing from Canadians that “Indian Fatigue” is happening all across [Canada] — and now, it’s no longer just a national concern.

    What started as a Canadian conversation has spread to become a worldwide issue. Indian Fatigue — our term for the growing frustration over rapid demographic and cultural changes linked to large-scale immigration from India — is now being discussed in communities across the globe.

    In this video, we look at what Canadians are saying and show some recent examples, highlighting how this issue is affecting communities and sparking conversations everywhere. This is a conversation the world can’t ignore."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,845
    edited August 17
    Is the fawning coverage of these people anything to do with being middle class folk? I seemed to remember we had the same about the white white class lad who joined ISIS, his parents kept getting positive coverage of him being misunderstood and they sent him money.

    https://observer.co.uk/news/national/article/my-daughter-zoe-is-not-a-terrorist-why-has-she-spent-a-year-in-prison
  • TazTaz Posts: 20,359

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Yes

    SNP is a risk. To make any money at 1/6 you’d have to pile on. I don’t believe, in these volatile times, they are a dead certainty

    Reform at 12/1 is generous
    the SNP have a unique selling point in Scotland. All the other parties are fishing in the same - be part of the UK pond...

    Hence I can see the SNP easily winning on 30-35% while the other parties win more votes between them but very few constituency seats.
    But Reform are surging everywhere

    And all it takes for the SNP to plunge is for a lot of Indy supporters to think “ok I still want Indy, but THIS is more important for now, Indy can wait”

    If THIS is migrants/asylum/woke wars, then Reform become the only option

    Not likely in Scotland. But not impossible
    Are Reform still "surging"? They didn't do so well in the last set of by-elections and they seem to be unable to defend many, at least, of the seats they won last time round..
    Yes they're still doing well, but maybe not quite so well.
    No, I’ve been saying for a couple of weeks now that they have peaked around 32%.

    I think this is their high water mark for the time being.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,946
    edited August 17
    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    But surely those on the top floor are insulated from the fire.

    So according to you we are entering a dystopian world where only the Captains of industry can make a living. Everyone else has been replaced by machines.

    If only the top two or three percent remain earning, we won't even need baristas and burger flippers for the hoi poloi, as no one will be able to afford burgers and coffee.
    There is an irony here in that the LLM models that Leon loves are seriously unprofitable and show little chance of every becoming profitable...
    From the World Wide Web:

    “In the early railway age, probably the majority of companies went bust. Britain’s “railway mania” of the 1830s and 40s saw promoters raising fortunes on wild promises. Building railways was hugely expensive, competition was cutthroat, and traffic forecasts were often pure fantasy. Many branch lines to obscure towns never paid their way, and some companies paid dividends out of capital until the money ran out.

    The survivors - like the Liverpool & Manchester Railway - thrived, but dozens of smaller lines collapsed or were absorbed by stronger rivals. The same chaos unfolded in America, where the panic of 1837 sent early railroads into bankruptcy with alarming regularity. Railways changed the world, but the business was as risky and volatile as a gold rush.”
    Railways had large up front costs - but once the line was built (bankrupting the builders) someone could come along and make a profit from running trains on the line.

    The current problem with AI is that the costs are 3 fold

    1) creating the models (very expensive).
    2) the running costs of paying customers (someone has just found a cursor user who used $50,000 of compute costs for their $200 subscription). Now that's a worst case scenario but it's incredibly common to discover high usage users are using more than they pay.
    3) marketing is about giving limited acceess for free - so a lot people aren't paying anything and a struggling to find reasons to spend money on it

    End result is few people can justify the actual costs of their usage - so there is a very limited upside for potential customers.

    I've seen a number of expert people who think LLM is probably a $50bn industry (at best) and not the multiple trillion pounds others think it is...

    Finally MS are desperately trying to work out a business model that isn't per user or consumption base as that is essential for them to make a profit from this technology and it's proving far harder than they thought (per user isn't selling even at $20 a user per month)..
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,845
    edited August 17

    Mirror and Express targeted for takeover that would sack a third of journalists
    More than 850 jobs at risk as David Montgomery revives swoop on news publisher Reach

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2025/08/16/mirror-express-targeted-takeover-sack-third-of-journalists/ (£££)

    Its an absolute shit show over at Reach. They bought all those regional newspapers at the time when everybody stopped reading newspapers, tried to pivot to online with loads of slop and syndicated stuff and of course for local "news" people now just are part of Facebook and WhatsApp groups.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Yes

    SNP is a risk. To make any money at 1/6 you’d have to pile on. I don’t believe, in these volatile times, they are a dead certainty

    Reform at 12/1 is generous
    the SNP have a unique selling point in Scotland. All the other parties are fishing in the same - be part of the UK pond...

    Hence I can see the SNP easily winning on 30-35% while the other parties win more votes between them but very few constituency seats.
    But Reform are surging everywhere

    And all it takes for the SNP to plunge is for a lot of Indy supporters to think “ok I still want Indy, but THIS is more important for now, Indy can wait”

    If THIS is migrants/asylum/woke wars, then Reform become the only option

    Not likely in Scotland. But not impossible
    Are Reform still "surging"? They didn't do so well in the last set of by-elections and they seem to be unable to defend many, at least, of the seats they won last time round..
    Yes they're still doing well, but maybe not quite so well.
    No, I’ve been saying for a couple of weeks now that they have peaked around 32%.

    I think this is their high water mark for the time being.
    The interesting thing in recent polls is not the Reform vote (it seems to bounce around 28-33) but the continuing fall in Labour and the little uptick for the Tories

    Could just be The Holibobs Effect
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,495
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon told us AI is coming for our jobs, and now the Telegraph has launched its AI travel adviser:-
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-expert/

    Ask not for whom the bell tolls...

    I won’t talk about the tech - I believe I’m still not allowed - but I will talk about the economic implications

    The NYT has a piercing essay on the crash in tech/coding/computer science jobs for graduates. You can guess why. The industry is burning on the ground floor, the fire will spread to the rest of the building

    https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

    The great jobs shakedown is beginning
    The more interesting thing to watch over the next couple of years will be what - if any - new jobs are created and/or in what areas there will be increased job demand.
    I fear there won’t be half - a quarter - as many created as will be destroyed. Coz of my amateur scribblings in this arena I’ve gained a couple of friends and online acquaintances who are very well informed hereto. Let’s just say one of them works in N1C

    And I have heard and seen scary things

    I say this with no pleasure at all. Quite the opposite. I have two daughters age 19. What will they do?!?
    “Hi Grok, can you write me 800 words on the future job opportunities of junior employees in a new age of technology and AI ubiquity, following the Spectator magazine’s style guide”.

    As for today’s teenagers, either trade school or something that relies on human-to-human contact. That or a PhD in machine learning.

    He’s a good essay on what the next few years might look like. https://x.com/gregisenberg/status/1956703650744578091
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,866
    fitalass said:

    Roger said:

    I wrote on the previous thread how much I was enjoying the audiobook of Nicola Sturgeon titled 'Frankly'. Turbotubbs replied

    "I'm amazed she recalls enough to write an essay, let alone a book. A mendacious, devious liar who tried to frame Alec Salmond, played politics over COVID and is married to a man charged with embezzling money from the party she led. Someone who believes men in a dress ought to be in a woman's prison because of them saying they are a woman"

    All I can say knowing less about her than you obviously do is that I've always been an admirer and this book hasn't changed that. I've always admired her values and her loathing of racism and prejudice of any sort which is evident throughout the book and was in all her appearances. Scottish politis is clearly a bear pit and how she managed to navigate it has to be admired and respected. I have to say despite her tough gal exterior I find it quite moving and for anyone wanting to know more about Scottish politics I can't think of a better place to start

    Seriously, have you turned into a parody account on this site, or are you just in the mood to troll the rest of us on a lazy Sunday morning?! I cannot think of a more dishonest tribally divisive figure in Scottish politics than Nicola Sturgeon, but then I shouldn't probable be surprised to discover you are so tin eared you totally missed the incredible cross party feminist backlash that has gathered against her after she dismissed women's concerns over protecting female only safe spaces/GRR Bill as not valid.

    Her memoir is badly researched and glosses over or totally forgets to mention or address the worst scandals under her stewardship as FM and leader of the SNP as she tries to cynically reinvent her public persona in preparation for her post front line politics career.
    Have you read her book? All your post has shown me -as has turbotubbs-is what a fractious business politics is in Scotland. This was reasonably new to me as I suspect it will be to most non Scots on here. I happen to have Scottish relatives who are quite political so I pick up more than most but I wouldn't assume than most of us South of the border know too much of what is going on which is one of the reasons I recommend her book.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,845
    Watched an interesting video with Anthropic team, confirmed what I think a lot of had anecdotally realised. If you are polite and nice to your LLM, it reacts differently.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,969
    Hold on didn't Labour manage to win a decent Scottish by election against expectations ?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,845
    edited August 17

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    They tried this same line of attack with Sunak over being soft on paedos.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,495
    edited August 17
    Scott_xP said:

    eek said:

    The irony is that sat above the level where people are being impacted - the quality of what most AI generates is roughly that of an unmotivated, unmanaged indian graduate outsourced dev.

    There was of course a story recently about the 'AI' coding company who were in fact 'Actually Indians' writing code for minimum wage
    There was also an “AI Chat Bot” company where the back end was actually several hundred Filipinos.

    AI might be able to take first world jobs at the moment, but there’s a long way to go when it comes to third world wages.
  • eekeek Posts: 30,946

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    They tried this same line of attack with Sunak over being soft on paedos.
    How the f**k does OSA make revenge porn harder? The victim knows who the guilty party is - and all sites have required content "creators" to provide details for decades...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,741
    Battlebus said:

    rcs1000 said:

    I will put 5 Scottish Pounds on Reform.

    I don't expect to win, but 12-1 seem very fair odds.

    Would Reform winning in Scotland be an even bigger sell out than the Union of the Crowns?
    YES
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,845
    edited August 17
    eek said:

    Labour Party on X -

    "Nigel Farage would put women and girls at risk.

    NIGEL FARAGE WANTS TO MAKE IT EASIER TO SHARE REVENGE PORN ONLINE"

    I presume this is about the OSA, so the inference is that anyone who opposes the OSA wants to make it easier to share revenge porn

    Who does the Labour Party think is stupid enough to believe this, even if only about Farage?

    They tried this same line of attack with Sunak over being soft on paedos.
    How the f**k does OSA make revenge porn harder? The victim knows who the guilty party is - and all sites have required content "creators" to provide details for decades...
    Its more of Labour thrashing around in regards to the OSA looking for a narrative that it does really save the kids.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 64,181
    From t’Net



    “The Dawn of the Electrical Age was as chaotic as the Early Railway Age. In the 1880s and 1890s, when Edison, Westinghouse, and their imitators started stringing wires across cities, companies were constantly springing up, collapsing, or being swallowed. Setting up a power plant and network of cables was monstrously expensive, and there was no agreed standard at first (AC vs. DC being the infamous “War of Currents”). Small municipal or speculative firms often overpromised - “light for every home!” - then went bust when they couldn’t raise enough capital, or when customers balked at high prices.

    So just like the railways, the early electricity business was a graveyard of little ventures, with a handful of giants emerging from the rubble. This pattern is painfully familiar in technological revolutions - wild optimism, frantic building, frequent bankruptcy, and eventual consolidation into a few dominant firms.”
  • eekeek Posts: 30,946
    edited August 17
    @Sandpit before I wander off and teach AI to read some payslips have you seen Ed Zitron's article on how ChatGPT 5 seems to work

    https://www.wheresyoured.at/how-does-gpt-5-work/

    One of those areas where you see the process flow and why it looks great but is really problematic when actually implemented (look at question, forward message to appropriate system, spend x00 tokens ensuring appropriate system understands the context).
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724
    edited August 17
    This is a local district for local sex abusers.

    Grok
    @grok
    Based on ONS data for year ending March 2025:

    - London (Met Police area): 3.05 sexual offences per 1,000 pop. (26,803 offences; pop. ~8.8M). Foreign-born: 40.6%.

    - Tendring district (incl. Clacton-on-Sea, Farage's constituency): 4.25 per 1,000 (633 offences; pop. ~149K). Foreign-born: 6.7%.

    London's rate is lower, despite higher immigration. No causal link implied.
    7:43 pm · 16 Aug 2025
    ·
    1,083
    Views

    https://x.com/grok/status/1956788961290101053
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,845
    edited August 17
    eek said:

    @Sandpit before I wander off and teach AI to read some payslips have you seen Ed Zitron's article on how ChatGPT 5 seems to work

    https://www.wheresyoured.at/how-does-gpt-5-work/

    One of those areas where you see the process flow and see why it looks great but is really problematic in person.

    Sam Altman is rapidly turning into Elon Musk, he is now claiming, it is really really good, honest, it just we don't have enough GPUs at the moment.

    They have now also released a load of docs telling you how you have to be really careful with your prompts when asking for help with coding and it will do the wrong thing if you don't follow them. The whole points of these LLMs is supposed they are getting better and make it easier to write code, not that I have to carefully construct my point with a load of xml tags before it will do the right thing. That is just changing one form of coding into another.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 6,795
    Roger said:

    I wrote on the previous thread how much I was enjoying the audiobook of Nicola Sturgeon titled 'Frankly'. Turbotubbs replied

    "I'm amazed she recalls enough to write an essay, let alone a book. A mendacious, devious liar who tried to frame Alec Salmond, played politics over COVID and is married to a man charged with embezzling money from the party she led. Someone who believes men in a dress ought to be in a woman's prison because of them saying they are a woman"

    All I can say knowing less about her than you obviously do is that I've always been a fan and this book hasn't changed that. I've long admired her values and her loathing of racism and prejudice which is evident throughout the book and was in all her appearances. Scottish politics is clearly a bear pit and how she managed to navigate it has to be admired and respected. I have to say despite her tough gal exterior I find it quite moving and for anyone wanting to know more about Scottish politics I can't think of a better place to start

    As someone pointed out elsewhere, all six recommendations on the back cover are from people who don't live in Scotland. Apparently she's easy to like from a distance.

    Here's a counterpoint from The Times:

    https://archive.is/tYcCk
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,724
    Priorities for these fuckwits.

    US Homeland Security News
    @defense_civil25
    14h
    🚨Update: The White House has informed the Ukrainian delegation that Zelensky MUST wear a suit or there will be no meeting! Bravo White House. It’s a formal meeting, and the presidency of the U.S. is an institution that demands the highest level of formality!
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 32,348
    STRICTLY COME QUIETLY Fresh scandal hits Strictly as BBC call in cops after external probe into show weeks before new series starts
    https://www.thesun.co.uk/tv/36324162/scandal-strictly-cops-bbc-external-probe/

    Posted mainly for the headline. Look and learn, TSE.
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