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44% of the public are liars, in fact 59% of them are liars once you add Don't Knows

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  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,707
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't think there was going to be a deal agreed here, Russia's offensive is still going well; he won't want to freeze the lines just yet.

    As for British beaches ?

    Barafundle bay, Puttsborough/Wollacombe, Bamburgh best I've visited in recent years.

    Russia - which has had a great couple of weeks - has had a rather bad couple of days I thought, giving up a lot of the territory they'd grabbed.
    The rumour is that the Russians have lost in two days almost all they gained in six weeks and with very heavy casualties. We will see, but it certainly seems like the "summer offensive" is in considerable difficulties.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,707
    fitalass said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently Sergey Lavrov turned up wearing a jumper with USSR written on it.

    The obnoxious Sergey Lavrov turning up in that sweatshirt was just about the most undiplomatic two fingers salute to the West before Putin even arrived. Hopefully someone explained the message it conveyed to Trump...
    The insolence is simply outrageous.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,559
    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: Russia launched 85 attack drones and a ballistic missile at Ukrainian territory overnight, according to Ukraine's Air Force.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,707
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Jay in Kyiv
    @JayinKyiv
    ·
    2h
    Holy shit, they didn't even send the real Putin.

    Some of us noticed this a couple of hours ago.

    That’s not the real Putin, that’s a body double, as Ukranian media has suggested would happen.
    This feels like tinfoil hat zone.
    In the insane court of Vlad the Bad, what is crazy is normal- just watch Solovayev's TV show: constant nuclear sabre rattling and demented conspiracies and you can see how poor official Russia's mental health truly is.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,863
    fitalass said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Apparently Sergey Lavrov turned up wearing a jumper with USSR written on it.

    The obnoxious Sergey Lavrov turning up in that sweatshirt was just about the most undiplomatic two fingers salute to the West before Putin even arrived. Hopefully someone explained the message it conveyed to Trump...
    They should have told him it was the Union of Sharks, Suckers and Real Estate Failures.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,559
    Gavin Newsom's trolling game remains strong

    https://bsky.app/profile/devincow.bsky.social/post/3lwi62d6elk2g
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,629
    edited August 16
    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't think there was going to be a deal agreed here, Russia's offensive is still going well; he won't want to freeze the lines just yet.

    As for British beaches ?

    Barafundle bay, Puttsborough/Wollacombe, Bamburgh best I've visited in recent years.

    Russia - which has had a great couple of weeks - has had a rather bad couple of days I thought, giving up a lot of the territory they'd grabbed.
    The rumour is that the Russians have lost in two days almost all they gained in six weeks and with very heavy casualties. We will see, but it certainly seems like the "summer offensive" is in considerable difficulties.
    The rumour is that it was a well executed Ukrainian plan: make it look like the main front line has been broken, let Russia pour through it - then pounce.

    There was also a North Korean attack that was massive - and utterly obliterated within an hour.

    Now just use whatever Europe has to smash Russia's oil industry. Rumours are Ukraine has already taken out 20% of the capacity. Already a tricky decision - provide for the cities, or provide for the army? Don't worry Donald, the Saudis will be very happy with that outcome...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,088
    Andy_JS said:

    Are there any other Gang Of Four fans on PB? I was just listening to their 1983 funk album "Hard" which most of their fans can't stand, and which I think is the best thing they ever did.

    Was the lead singer Shirley Williams?
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,491
    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Stringfellow, a solicitor at Brett Wilson, told the PA news agency: “Both (Jones and Connolly) said pretty unpleasant things.However, I’m afraid the conflation of the two after that is a problem. It comes from people who’ve got some sort of political agenda, in my view. They were facing completely different allegations and a massive part of those different allegations is the racial element. If you look at the Connolly case … her intention is of a racial nature.”"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/peter-stringfellow-chris-philp-snaresbrook-crown-court-southport-james-cleverly-b2808559.html"

    Errr, surely the major difference is this:

    (1) Jones went to jury trial and the was found not guilty.
    (2) Connolly chose to plead guilty, and was sentenced to prison.

    Now, I think the sentence for Connolly was grossly disproportionate to her acts. I would probably have gone for Community Service, or (at most) eight weeks at Her Majesty's Pleasure. On the other hand, I don't think she's any kind of laudable character (and nor is Jones), she just made the mistake of pleading guilty when there was a pretty good chance she would have been acquitted (or that the jury would have been hung). And I don't see how her sentence could realistically have been any worse.
    I totally agree with all the points you made. But unless I have got this wrong, Connolly as a mother of a young daughter who had also suffered the bereavement of another very young child was arrested and charged and then placed on remand while Jones was granted bail which is the big issue being ignored by most here arguing about the rights and wrongs of the later legal outcome of both these cases as a result.

    And if I am correct that Connolly was remanded in custody while Jones was not then questions should be asked because these differing circumstances surely helped lead to far more pressure being brought to bear and incredible quickly which left Connolly feeling far more compelled to plead guilty to try to get home to her family quicker while Jones felt no such pressure and was able to go ahead and enter his plea while waiting at home for his day in date in court in front of a jury.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,023
    fitalass said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Stringfellow, a solicitor at Brett Wilson, told the PA news agency: “Both (Jones and Connolly) said pretty unpleasant things.However, I’m afraid the conflation of the two after that is a problem. It comes from people who’ve got some sort of political agenda, in my view. They were facing completely different allegations and a massive part of those different allegations is the racial element. If you look at the Connolly case … her intention is of a racial nature.”"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/peter-stringfellow-chris-philp-snaresbrook-crown-court-southport-james-cleverly-b2808559.html"

    Errr, surely the major difference is this:

    (1) Jones went to jury trial and the was found not guilty.
    (2) Connolly chose to plead guilty, and was sentenced to prison.

    Now, I think the sentence for Connolly was grossly disproportionate to her acts. I would probably have gone for Community Service, or (at most) eight weeks at Her Majesty's Pleasure. On the other hand, I don't think she's any kind of laudable character (and nor is Jones), she just made the mistake of pleading guilty when there was a pretty good chance she would have been acquitted (or that the jury would have been hung). And I don't see how her sentence could realistically have been any worse.
    I totally agree with all the points you made. But unless I have got this wrong, Connolly as a mother of a young daughter who had also suffered the bereavement of another very young child was arrested and charged and then placed on remand while Jones was granted bail which is the big issue being ignored by most here arguing about the rights and wrongs of the later legal outcome of both these cases as a result.

    And if I am correct that Connolly was remanded in custody while Jones was not then questions should be asked because these differing circumstances surely helped lead to far more pressure being brought to bear and incredible quickly which left Connolly feeling far more compelled to plead guilty to try to get home to her family quicker while Jones felt no such pressure and was able to go ahead and enter his plea while waiting at home for his day in date in court in front of a jury.

    I wasn't aware of this, but research shows you are completely correct. Ms Connolly being held on remand will have put enormous pressure on her to plead guilty.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,399

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't think there was going to be a deal agreed here, Russia's offensive is still going well; he won't want to freeze the lines just yet.

    As for British beaches ?

    Barafundle bay, Puttsborough/Wollacombe, Bamburgh best I've visited in recent years.

    Russia - which has had a great couple of weeks - has had a rather bad couple of days I thought, giving up a lot of the territory they'd grabbed.
    The rumour is that the Russians have lost in two days almost all they gained in six weeks and with very heavy casualties. We will see, but it certainly seems like the "summer offensive" is in considerable difficulties.
    The rumour is that it was a well executed Ukrainian plan: make it look like the main front line has been broken, let Russia pour through it - then pounce.

    There was also a North Korean attack that was massive - and utterly obliterated within an hour.

    Now just use whatever Europe has to smash Russia's oil industry. Rumours are Ukraine has already taken out 20% of the capacity. Already a tricky decision - provide for the cities, or provide for the army? Don't worry Donald, the Saudis will be very happy with that outcome...
    The North Korean troops seem to have little tactical training. Have any of their attacks worked?

    The other factor is that the Russians have poor logistics. One more than short distance from their railheads, their capability for reapply drops massively. So advances rapidly run out of ammunition etc.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,559
    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,762
    Nigelb said:

    Trump Net-Approval In:

    🟢 Alaska: +11%
    🟢 Texas: +9%
    🟢 Georgia: +4%
    🟢 Nevada: +2%
    🟢 North Carolina: +1%
    🟢 Arizona: +1%

    🟡 Pennsylvania: Even

    🔴 Michigan: -1%
    🔴 Iowa: -1%
    🔴 Wisconsin: -5%
    🔴 New Hampshire: -13%
    🔴 Maine: -14%

    Morning Consult / July 2025

    https://x.com/USA_Polling/status/1956482192554521022

    Those are surprisingly good numbers for him. I thought he'd be underwater in all the swing states given his approval has declined a lot since starting.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 1,398
    edited August 16
    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 14,747
    Nigelb said:


    Putin knows how to play his ego, and his obsessions, then.

    The only half good thing about the meeting is that it might have turned out worse than it did.

    VVP has to give Trump an audience because who knows what the radged c-nt will do if he feels slighted.

    Otherwise, it's his interest to press on a while longer. The positions have reversed since the start of the SMO when Ukraine was hanging on for a dethronement in the Third Rome. Now it's the Russians holding out for a change in the cast of characters in Kiev. The Green Goblin regime is on its shoogliest peg since the start of festivities and has been rocked in quick succession by the busifikatsya business, the kartonnaya revolyutsiya and various standard issue Ukrainian corruption scandals.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,707
    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,609

    Andy_JS said:

    Are there any other Gang Of Four fans on PB? I was just listening to their 1983 funk album "Hard" which most of their fans can't stand, and which I think is the best thing they ever did.

    Was the lead singer Shirley Williams?
    Jiang Qing I believe.

    The Shirley Williams effort was a tribute act.

  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,491

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't think there was going to be a deal agreed here, Russia's offensive is still going well; he won't want to freeze the lines just yet.

    As for British beaches ?

    Barafundle bay, Puttsborough/Wollacombe, Bamburgh best I've visited in recent years.

    Russia - which has had a great couple of weeks - has had a rather bad couple of days I thought, giving up a lot of the territory they'd grabbed.
    The rumour is that the Russians have lost in two days almost all they gained in six weeks and with very heavy casualties. We will see, but it certainly seems like the "summer offensive" is in considerable difficulties.
    The rumour is that it was a well executed Ukrainian plan: make it look like the main front line has been broken, let Russia pour through it - then pounce.

    There was also a North Korean attack that was massive - and utterly obliterated within an hour.

    Now just use whatever Europe has to smash Russia's oil industry. Rumours are Ukraine has already taken out 20% of the capacity. Already a tricky decision - provide for the cities, or provide for the army? Don't worry Donald, the Saudis will be very happy with that outcome...
    When is anyone going to finally admit that Ukraine has clearly now developed an incredibly well supported and supplied special ops/resistance operation that is working incredible effectively when it comes to targeting and taking out vital Russian logistical military infrastructure behind enemy lines in the newly occupied areas of Ukraine as well as in Crimea and across the border in Russia?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,609
    DM_Andy said:

    Morning all, posted without comment.

    "Jury trials have been a central part of our constitution for centuries—in Magna Carta, and indeed before it. They are a gift that we have given to the world. To throw them away so casually shows a total disregard for our constitution, and for such limited benefit. It seems that too many on the Government Benches want to scrap jury trials regardless of the backlog, because they do not trust the British public’s instincts on justice. They say that judges know best; we say that the public know best."
    Robert Jenrick MP, House of Commons, 9th July 2025
    Jenrick was also a big advocate of the "one in one out" deal with France when he was in power in 2023.

    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3lwcljaf27c22
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,232
    edited August 16
    Dura_Ace said:

    Nigelb said:


    Putin knows how to play his ego, and his obsessions, then.

    The only half good thing about the meeting is that it might have turned out worse than it did.

    VVP has to give Trump an audience because who knows what the radged c-nt will do if he feels slighted.

    Otherwise, it's his interest to press on a while longer. The positions have reversed since the start of the SMO when Ukraine was hanging on for a dethronement in the Third Rome. Now it's the Russians holding out for a change in the cast of characters in Kiev. The Green Goblin regime is on its shoogliest peg since the start of festivities and has been rocked in quick succession by the busifikatsya business, the kartonnaya revolyutsiya and various standard issue Ukrainian corruption scandals.
    And yet their democracy stubbornly refuses to drop off the peg.

    What provably terrifies Putin is that the war ends, Ukraine in integrated into Europe, and develops like its western neighbours.

    That's the difference between the two sides, and has been since the old bloodthirsty Bolsheviks seized power. Democracies thrive in peacetime, while the Soviet empire - and its successor -stagnates.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 25,053
    Foxy said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Morning all, posted without comment.

    "Jury trials have been a central part of our constitution for centuries—in Magna Carta, and indeed before it. They are a gift that we have given to the world. To throw them away so casually shows a total disregard for our constitution, and for such limited benefit. It seems that too many on the Government Benches want to scrap jury trials regardless of the backlog, because they do not trust the British public’s instincts on justice. They say that judges know best; we say that the public know best."
    Robert Jenrick MP, House of Commons, 9th July 2025
    Jenrick was also a big advocate of the "one in one out" deal with France when he was in power in 2023.

    https://bsky.app/profile/sundersays.bsky.social/post/3lwcljaf27c22
    It is also his preferred approach to the position of Conservative party leader.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,426
    rcs1000 said:

    fitalass said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Peter Stringfellow, a solicitor at Brett Wilson, told the PA news agency: “Both (Jones and Connolly) said pretty unpleasant things.However, I’m afraid the conflation of the two after that is a problem. It comes from people who’ve got some sort of political agenda, in my view. They were facing completely different allegations and a massive part of those different allegations is the racial element. If you look at the Connolly case … her intention is of a racial nature.”"

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/peter-stringfellow-chris-philp-snaresbrook-crown-court-southport-james-cleverly-b2808559.html"

    Errr, surely the major difference is this:

    (1) Jones went to jury trial and the was found not guilty.
    (2) Connolly chose to plead guilty, and was sentenced to prison.

    Now, I think the sentence for Connolly was grossly disproportionate to her acts. I would probably have gone for Community Service, or (at most) eight weeks at Her Majesty's Pleasure. On the other hand, I don't think she's any kind of laudable character (and nor is Jones), she just made the mistake of pleading guilty when there was a pretty good chance she would have been acquitted (or that the jury would have been hung). And I don't see how her sentence could realistically have been any worse.
    I totally agree with all the points you made. But unless I have got this wrong, Connolly as a mother of a young daughter who had also suffered the bereavement of another very young child was arrested and charged and then placed on remand while Jones was granted bail which is the big issue being ignored by most here arguing about the rights and wrongs of the later legal outcome of both these cases as a result.

    And if I am correct that Connolly was remanded in custody while Jones was not then questions should be asked because these differing circumstances surely helped lead to far more pressure being brought to bear and incredible quickly which left Connolly feeling far more compelled to plead guilty to try to get home to her family quicker while Jones felt no such pressure and was able to go ahead and enter his plea while waiting at home for his day in date in court in front of a jury.

    I wasn't aware of this, but research shows you are completely correct. Ms Connolly being held on remand will have put enormous pressure on her to plead guilty.
    Jones was also remanded in custody from being charged on 9th August 2024 to his Crown Court appearance on 6th September where he pleaded not guilty and was given bail. Connelly was also charged on the 9th August and was remanded in custody until her Crown Court appearance on 12th August where she pleaded guilty.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,559
    @TheEconomist

    It is a sign of the times that the failure of Donald Trump to reach a deal may be a relief for Ukrainian and European leaders, who feared that he would yield to Vladimir Putin’s demands to neuter Ukraine

    https://x.com/TheEconomist/status/1956606873785798796
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,430
    While we are all watching events in Alaska, a world away in Saudi Arabia Ronnie O’Sullivan scored *two* 147 breaks in the semi-final of the Saudi Masters snooker.

    https://x.com/wearewst/status/1956442671309836323
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 9,194
    Phillips P. O'Brien
    The weird thing is that some people are saying that this summit did not change anything. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many things changed dramatically yesterday from the way they were only days ago. And all the changes are good for Russia and bad for Ukraine.

    Amazing that.

    More here:
    https://phillipspobrien.substack.com/p/putin-makes-no-concessions-but-trump
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,863

    nico67 said:

    So Putin repeating what we’ve heard many times before “ we need to eliminate the primary causes of the conflict “.

    Did he offer to commit suicide then?
    That would give peace a brief window of opportunity.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,430

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't think there was going to be a deal agreed here, Russia's offensive is still going well; he won't want to freeze the lines just yet.

    As for British beaches ?

    Barafundle bay, Puttsborough/Wollacombe, Bamburgh best I've visited in recent years.

    Russia - which has had a great couple of weeks - has had a rather bad couple of days I thought, giving up a lot of the territory they'd grabbed.
    The rumour is that the Russians have lost in two days almost all they gained in six weeks and with very heavy casualties. We will see, but it certainly seems like the "summer offensive" is in considerable difficulties.
    The rumour is that it was a well executed Ukrainian plan: make it look like the main front line has been broken, let Russia pour through it - then pounce.

    There was also a North Korean attack that was massive - and utterly obliterated within an hour.

    Now just use whatever Europe has to smash Russia's oil industry. Rumours are Ukraine has already taken out 20% of the capacity. Already a tricky decision - provide for the cities, or provide for the army? Don't worry Donald, the Saudis will be very happy with that outcome...
    The North Korean troops seem to have little tactical training. Have any of their attacks worked?

    The other factor is that the Russians have poor logistics. One more than short distance from their railheads, their capability for reapply drops massively. So advances rapidly run out of ammunition etc.
    The NorKs are in Russia are allegedly some of the best they have to offer, which I guess is good news for the rest of the world because they’ve been utterly woeful in practice, appear to not have a clue what they’re doing when faced with an enemy that actually fires back.

    Russian logistics is almost all train-based, and the Ukranians have done a very good job in recent weeks of taking out key rail junctions, points, and signal boxes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,430
    Scott_xP said:

    @TheEconomist

    It is a sign of the times that the failure of Donald Trump to reach a deal may be a relief for Ukrainian and European leaders, who feared that he would yield to Vladimir Putin’s demands to neuter Ukraine

    https://x.com/TheEconomist/status/1956606873785798796

    They had two pieces written, didn’t they?

    The first said “Why the deal is good for Russia and bad for Ukraine, OrangeManBad”
    The second said “Why the lack of a deal is good for Russia and bad for Ukraine, OrangeManBad”
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,863
    edited August 16
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TheEconomist

    It is a sign of the times that the failure of Donald Trump to reach a deal may be a relief for Ukrainian and European leaders, who feared that he would yield to Vladimir Putin’s demands to neuter Ukraine

    https://x.com/TheEconomist/status/1956606873785798796

    They had two pieces written, didn’t they?

    The first said “Why the deal is good for Russia and bad for Ukraine, OrangeManBad”
    The second said “Why the lack of a deal is good for Russia and bad for Ukraine, OrangeManBad”
    All Trump's meddling has done so far is confuse the situation.

    I will admit this is slightly better than my prediction, which is that he would be increasingly overt in his backing for Russia and this would lead to a rapid Ukrainian collapse.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 16,732
    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,863

    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
    That is unusual. Must have some primary school if they were getting 25% into Oxbridge rather than a secondary school.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,392
    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,726
    algarkirk said:

    TimS said:

    Roger said:

    Lets hope that all those charged with belonging to Palestine Action choose to have a jury trial and are found not guilty. It's easy to forget posting here that the vast majority in the country aren't racists who follow Farage read the Telegraph and are happy to support genocide. There are about a quarter of the country who are neanderthals but as long as is stays like that we can all feel comfortable. Think about people you know not people who post crap online.

    I thought the Farage and Tory reaction to the jury verdict on Ricky Jones was odd, even though frankly I think it was the wrong verdict.

    They said it was an example of 2 tier justice, but it was a jury verdict. Members of the public. They seem to be condemning the jury for wrongthink.
    The verdict on a section 45 Serious Crime Act 2007 charge has to take account of the intentions of the defendant. I can't see how anyone can be in a better position than the jury to decide what was, or may have been, in the mind of Jones at the time. see links below



    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2007/27/section/45


    https://gardencourtchambers.co.uk/jury-acquits-defendant-of-encouraging-violent-disorder-at-anti-racist-protest/
    It was the sensible decision , fact that they stitched up the woman who tweeted just to show how tough they were is what is all wrong. People say stuff like that all the time but have no intention of it being reality. The pathetic wankers who supposedly run the country are the ones who should be in the dock. I would like to be on that jury.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,435

    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
    Agreed, and I think people underestimate how infectious success and ambition are. A couple of pupils like that in a class totally changes the teaching dynamic. A lot of the secret sauce of successful schools is about getting ambitious, co-operative families to send their children to the school.

    It's hard to disentangle gentrification and immigration from London Challenge, though. My hunch is that the social changes did the heavy lifting, but the Blair-era interventions were needed to say to the public, "your local school isn't rubbish any more!" and get the aspirational middle classes back on board.

    Unfortunately for the rest of the country, the social structure is different, and the attempts to export that model to the rest of the country haven't really worked. Indeed, the London Effect starts to fizzle out before you reach the M25.

    It's also why secondary modern schools are so hard to do well. Especially now, the 11+ is a pretty effective filter to create schools without that critical mass of ambitious, co-operative families.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,726
    fitalass said:

    Cicero said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Didn't think there was going to be a deal agreed here, Russia's offensive is still going well; he won't want to freeze the lines just yet.

    As for British beaches ?

    Barafundle bay, Puttsborough/Wollacombe, Bamburgh best I've visited in recent years.

    Russia - which has had a great couple of weeks - has had a rather bad couple of days I thought, giving up a lot of the territory they'd grabbed.
    The rumour is that the Russians have lost in two days almost all they gained in six weeks and with very heavy casualties. We will see, but it certainly seems like the "summer offensive" is in considerable difficulties.
    The rumour is that it was a well executed Ukrainian plan: make it look like the main front line has been broken, let Russia pour through it - then pounce.

    There was also a North Korean attack that was massive - and utterly obliterated within an hour.

    Now just use whatever Europe has to smash Russia's oil industry. Rumours are Ukraine has already taken out 20% of the capacity. Already a tricky decision - provide for the cities, or provide for the army? Don't worry Donald, the Saudis will be very happy with that outcome...
    When is anyone going to finally admit that Ukraine has clearly now developed an incredibly well supported and supplied special ops/resistance operation that is working incredible effectively when it comes to targeting and taking out vital Russian logistical military infrastructure behind enemy lines in the newly occupied areas of Ukraine as well as in Crimea and across the border in Russia?
    Europe should be sending them everything they have , empty the cupboards and the Ukranians will send the Russians home pronto.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 5,771
    Clapgate won’t be forgotten even if the WH social media account edited it out .

    The summit can be summed up as Trump fellated Putin for three hours and then they went home .

    The end !
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,726

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
    G, America only ever help if they make money out of it , it took us 40 years to payback their help in WWII. Europe should have been helping from the start and not licking Trump's butt. Some of them need to get up off the ground and tell him to go F*** himself. Unfortunately we are led by fawning spineless wimps. When nobody was buying their weapons Trump's butt would soon be on the line.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,023

    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
    Agreed, and I think people underestimate how infectious success and ambition are. A couple of pupils like that in a class totally changes the teaching dynamic. A lot of the secret sauce of successful schools is about getting ambitious, co-operative families to send their children to the school.

    It's hard to disentangle gentrification and immigration from London Challenge, though. My hunch is that the social changes did the heavy lifting, but the Blair-era interventions were needed to say to the public, "your local school isn't rubbish any more!" and get the aspirational middle classes back on board.

    Unfortunately for the rest of the country, the social structure is different, and the attempts to export that model to the rest of the country haven't really worked. Indeed, the London Effect starts to fizzle out before you reach the M25.

    It's also why secondary modern schools are so hard to do well. Especially now, the 11+ is a pretty effective filter to create schools without that critical mass of ambitious, co-operative families.
    Indeed: in my sixth form, which had never got a kid into Cambridge ever, and maybe two or three into Oxford (over two decades), in my year of 65 students we got 4 in.

    Of which one was me.

    I'm very grateful to Maggie Warnan, Ian Turner and Jeremy Benson.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,023
    ydoethur said:

    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
    That is unusual. Must have some primary school if they were getting 25% into Oxbridge rather than a secondary school.
    Not really. Three kids in my daughter's nursery got into St John's College, Cambridge last year.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,183

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
    All he does is consistent with this:

    1) Trump genuinely doesn't like wars. (Taiwan, take note).

    2) Trump believes in big power block spheres of influence. USA, Russia, China, India, Europe, (Islamic world).

    3) Ukraine is part of an undecided hinterland. Other bits that don't fit are Canada, Greenland, USA in NATO, Israel.
  • lintolinto Posts: 49
    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Isn't the big unsaid element in the article that London schools get massively more per pupil than elsewhere due to the fact that historically they were so poor?

    https://www.neilobrien.co.uk/p/the-national-funding-formula-for

    Gives a good overview of what's happening with funding nationally.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,388
    As seems to be the usual Trump/Putin result .... TACO. "Trump always chickens out" Who invented that saying? Perhap they should be the next Democratic Presidential candidate? I see they haven't apologised yet for lying about Biden being away with the fairies for over two years.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,496

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
    The tough sanctions on Russia (and secondary sanctions) that Trump imposed last night following Putin's failure to agree a ceasefire are good news for Ukraine.

    Though I strangely can't find any mention of them on the BBC - probably because of their woke orangemanbad propaganda
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,023
    I don't think anyone got what they wanted.

    Putin wanted Trump fully on Russia's side, and didn't get it.

    Trump wanted Putin to make peace, and didn't get it.

    The Europeans and Ukraine wanted Trump to realize that Putin is a cunt, and didn't get it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,183
    CD13 said:

    As seems to be the usual Trump/Putin result .... TACO. "Trump always chickens out" Who invented that saying? Perhap they should be the next Democratic Presidential candidate? I see they haven't apologised yet for lying about Biden being away with the fairies for over two years.

    What has happened is consistent with Trump being pro Russia, and thinking that parts of eastern Europe belong to its sphere of influence, the boundaries being even now in the process of determination, and USA in the process of leaving the European alliance. That's the plan.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,392
    CD13 said:

    As seems to be the usual Trump/Putin result .... TACO. "Trump always chickens out" Who invented that saying? Perhap they should be the next Democratic Presidential candidate? I see they haven't apologised yet for lying about Biden being away with the fairies for over two years.

    To be fair Biden was certainly suffering age related dementia and the Democrats should have replaced him long before the election

    I am no Trump supporter, but he should have faced a much better POTUS candidate
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
    That is unusual. Must have some primary school if they were getting 25% into Oxbridge rather than a secondary school.
    Not really. Three kids in my daughter's nursery got into St John's College, Cambridge last year.
    That’s even more impressive. They must be very mature for their age.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,629
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
    That is unusual. Must have some primary school if they were getting 25% into Oxbridge rather than a secondary school.
    Not really. Three kids in my daughter's nursery got into St John's College, Cambridge last year.
    Wow, they are taking them young...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,023
    TimS said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
    That is unusual. Must have some primary school if they were getting 25% into Oxbridge rather than a secondary school.
    Not really. Three kids in my daughter's nursery got into St John's College, Cambridge last year.
    That’s even more impressive. They must be very mature for their age.
    It was only St John's 🤷
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825
    CD13 said:

    As seems to be the usual Trump/Putin result .... TACO. "Trump always chickens out" Who invented that saying? Perhap they should be the next Democratic Presidential candidate? I see they haven't apologised yet for lying about Biden being away with the fairies for over two years.

    Trump got everything he wanted from the summit: limelight, time alone with his friend, and quotable statements from Putin blaming the Democrats for the war and saying the 2020 election was rigged.

    A win win for VVP and DJT.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,392
    algarkirk said:

    CD13 said:

    As seems to be the usual Trump/Putin result .... TACO. "Trump always chickens out" Who invented that saying? Perhap they should be the next Democratic Presidential candidate? I see they haven't apologised yet for lying about Biden being away with the fairies for over two years.

    What has happened is consistent with Trump being pro Russia, and thinking that parts of eastern Europe belong to its sphere of influence, the boundaries being even now in the process of determination, and USA in the process of leaving the European alliance. That's the plan.
    I am not so much sure he is pro-Russia but more likely wanting a deal to make him many billions
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 61,023

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
    That is unusual. Must have some primary school if they were getting 25% into Oxbridge rather than a secondary school.
    Not really. Three kids in my daughter's nursery got into St John's College, Cambridge last year.
    Wow, they are taking them young...
    Woosh...
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,392
    kamski said:

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
    The tough sanctions on Russia (and secondary sanctions) that Trump imposed last night following Putin's failure to agree a ceasefire are good news for Ukraine.

    Though I strangely can't find any mention of them on the BBC - probably because of their woke orangemanbad propaganda
    Sanctions are not working though
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,273

    NEW THREAD

  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,496

    kamski said:

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
    The tough sanctions on Russia (and secondary sanctions) that Trump imposed last night following Putin's failure to agree a ceasefire are good news for Ukraine.

    Though I strangely can't find any mention of them on the BBC - probably because of their woke orangemanbad propaganda
    Sanctions are not working though
    Has anyone figured out why Trump has imposed a 39% tariff on Switzerland?

    Maybe because it hosts the HQ of various international organisations that he hates?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,317
    ...
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
    The tough sanctions on Russia (and secondary sanctions) that Trump imposed last night following Putin's failure to agree a ceasefire are good news for Ukraine.

    Though I strangely can't find any mention of them on the BBC - probably because of their woke orangemanbad propaganda
    Sanctions are not working though
    Has anyone figured out why Trump has imposed a 39% tariff on Switzerland?

    Maybe because it hosts the HQ of various international organisations that he hates?
    Presumably the States has a big BOP deficit with Switzerland? That's what the rest are about.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,707
    ydoethur said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @TheEconomist

    It is a sign of the times that the failure of Donald Trump to reach a deal may be a relief for Ukrainian and European leaders, who feared that he would yield to Vladimir Putin’s demands to neuter Ukraine

    https://x.com/TheEconomist/status/1956606873785798796

    They had two pieces written, didn’t they?

    The first said “Why the deal is good for Russia and bad for Ukraine, OrangeManBad”
    The second said “Why the lack of a deal is good for Russia and bad for Ukraine, OrangeManBad”
    All Trump's meddling has done so far is confuse the situation.

    I will admit this is slightly better than my prediction, which is that he would be increasingly overt in his backing for Russia and this would lead to a rapid Ukrainian collapse.
    As long as Trump doesn't actively stop aid reaching Ukraine, they can hold out more or less indefinitely. In fact the mercenary army of VVP has just taken a real battering, and while the Russians attack civilians, the Ukrainians are laying waste to the Russian economy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 80,232
    CD13 said:

    As seems to be the usual Trump/Putin result .... TACO. "Trump always chickens out" Who invented that saying?

    Robert Armstrong.

    Who has since added WACO - the world always (seems to) chicken out on tariffs, too.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,825

    ...

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
    The tough sanctions on Russia (and secondary sanctions) that Trump imposed last night following Putin's failure to agree a ceasefire are good news for Ukraine.

    Though I strangely can't find any mention of them on the BBC - probably because of their woke orangemanbad propaganda
    Sanctions are not working though
    Has anyone figured out why Trump has imposed a 39% tariff on Switzerland?

    Maybe because it hosts the HQ of various international organisations that he hates?
    Presumably the States has a big BOP deficit with Switzerland? That's what the rest are about.
    Yes, it’s just formulaic on trade balance, and the Swiss haven’t yet “done a deal”.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 6,496
    TimS said:

    ...

    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
    The tough sanctions on Russia (and secondary sanctions) that Trump imposed last night following Putin's failure to agree a ceasefire are good news for Ukraine.

    Though I strangely can't find any mention of them on the BBC - probably because of their woke orangemanbad propaganda
    Sanctions are not working though
    Has anyone figured out why Trump has imposed a 39% tariff on Switzerland?

    Maybe because it hosts the HQ of various international organisations that he hates?
    Presumably the States has a big BOP deficit with Switzerland? That's what the rest are about.
    Yes, it’s just formulaic on trade balance, and the Swiss haven’t yet “done a deal”.
    The question is why no deal?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,863
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Dopermean said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/aug/15/why-london-schools-outperforming-rest-england

    Interesting piece on London school attainment
    My sibling has taught in inner London, outer SE London and outside London. Inner London they enjoyed, deprived but aspirational pupils with high level of parental support, outer SE London they didn't, low aspiration, parents not interested in academic success.

    I disagree with some points in the article, London weighting in no way compensates for high housing costs and gentrification does not explain schools with high social deprivation intake in London achieving far higher added value compared to schools with similar intake elsewhere.

    I'd add that a) London based teachers have to perform well to get promoted so they can pay the rent b) aspiration is infectious lifting all the pupils performance and, sadly, the reverse is also true.

    Be interested in the educational experts views

    Two groups are massively overrepresented in London, especially inner London - the aspirational educated middle classes and immigrants. Both tend to value education far more than the most underrepresented group - the white working class. I'm not sure there's much else to it, other than attracting ambitious young teachers and success being infectious.
    To provide an anecdote of my own, at least a quarter of the kids from my daughter's state primary school class were accepted by Oxbridge last year.
    That is unusual. Must have some primary school if they were getting 25% into Oxbridge rather than a secondary school.
    Not really. Three kids in my daughter's nursery got into St John's College, Cambridge last year.
    You sent your daughter to nursery with Richard Burgon and Robert Jenrick? :hushed:
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,539

    kamski said:

    Cicero said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @KevinASchofield

    Trump Treats War Criminal Dictator Putin Like Royalty – And Still Fails To Get Ceasefire

    https://x.com/KevinASchofield/status/1956601745447993589

    There is quite the media backlash in Washington this morning. Trump´s obvious humiliation has ticked off quite a few, even on his own side. The pushback against the Russian offensive may yet see this period as a dark period before some kind of dawn. Another massacre of North Korean mercenaries and a significant Russian defeat means that Putin will not be as happy as all that even after his insolent trolling of the West.
    Good morning

    My reading of the summit was Putin got all he wanted, and Trump ended with empty rhetoric by responding saying it's now upto Zelensky and Europe

    What we are witnessing is Trump passing on the responsibility for Ukraine and Europe and whilst he will provide armaments to the EU, they will have to buy them from him as Europe looks at enormous defence spending and sole responsibility for Ukraine and the Baltic's security

    Frankly and depressingly Ukraine and Europe are on their own now
    The tough sanctions on Russia (and secondary sanctions) that Trump imposed last night following Putin's failure to agree a ceasefire are good news for Ukraine.

    Though I strangely can't find any mention of them on the BBC - probably because of their woke orangemanbad propaganda
    Sanctions are not working though
    Are they not?

    It depends on what you expected them to achieve. If you expected them to bring Russia to its knees within a couple of weeks, then they obviously have not worked. But I'd argue that was a silly expectation (unless Putin saw them as a foreshadowing of more to come and folded).

    If you expected sanctions to hurt Russia, and to make it much harder for them to prosecute the war, then that is what has happened. Russia's economy is in the toilet, and the cost of the war is much higher than it would be without sanctions. This reduces the amount of war Russia can do. Yes, they can still get the chips and other things they need, though in smaller quantities, more expense, unknown quality, and with a longer lead time, than it would if they purchased them directly from the west. They can still sell oil, but at a reduced price and by using expensive and unreliable grey and black fleets at increased cost.

    Then there's another aspect to sanctions: they act as a carrot as well as a stick. If Putin and Russia behaves, sanctions can be loosened or even removed.

    Yes, the sanctions against the Russian regime could be harsher. But have they been useful? Hell, yes.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,529
    edited August 16

    algarkirk said:

    CD13 said:

    As seems to be the usual Trump/Putin result .... TACO. "Trump always chickens out" Who invented that saying? Perhap they should be the next Democratic Presidential candidate? I see they haven't apologised yet for lying about Biden being away with the fairies for over two years.

    What has happened is consistent with Trump being pro Russia, and thinking that parts of eastern Europe belong to its sphere of influence, the boundaries being even now in the process of determination, and USA in the process of leaving the European alliance. That's the plan.
    I am not so much sure he is pro-Russia but more likely wanting a deal to make him many billions
    Have you ever heard of the term kompromat?

    Some in the intelligence community are alluding to the notion that the "golden shower" home movie from a Russian hotel room was no such thing, and what went on in that room was age related very unwholesome, The suggestion made is whatever happened and was filmed could confirm a predilection central to the Epstein case.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 29,156
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Foxy said:

    Cookie said:

    DM_Andy said:

    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    LOL, Trump has got the USAF lining up F22s to meet Putin.

    https://x.com/bohuslavskakate/status/1956416191678820441

    Difficult to deny he’s showing his strength to the enemy.

    I’ll deny it.
    He’s a raddled old twat showing his pectoral implants to another raddled old twat. In Bone Spurs’ head the USAF is him.
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Ever so slightly off topic, I was clearing out a corner of my flat this afternoon. 20 years of accumulated crap. Mostly meaningless. Admin. Paperwork. A useless printer. All purged. Yay

    But then suddenly I came across a sketch book that belonged to my ex wife (who I loved very much and only split with coz she wanted babies and I didn’t). It was full of her crazy funny eccentric drawings - even pages embroidered with wool. The epic of Gilgamesh in crayon. All her creativity and wit and uniqueness in o one pad of paper

    And I sat there and, I confess, I slightly cried. Just a few manly tears but they were real

    What is that? I was perfectly content - happy even. Then suddenly a land mine of emotion and memory exploded in my face and I was plunged into intense sadness

    What is the psychology? The evolutionary explanation for these emotions? Very strange

    It’s gone now. I’m fine again. But wow

    Give it to your daughter and ask her to deal with it as she deems fit. If you want to keep it, drop hints to that effect.
    Er, what? Thanks for replying but this was my ex wife’s sketch pad. Nothing to do with my kids (which is a sadness in itself but another story)

    It’s the mystery of consciousness. How can molecules and atoms - meat and blood - get together and make memory that makes “sadness” that makes salt water run down my face? And why? What’s the evolutionary purpose? To discourage divorce?!

    And these are thoughts, not even thoughts in the moment - memories of previous thoughts….
    Sorry. I assumed your daughter was both you and your ex wife’s joint offspring. I should have read your post more closely. (Checks personal IQ and finds failures.)
    In fairness, it wasn't an unreasonable conclusion to jump to without a careful reading of the post and/or particularly detailed knowledge of Leon's back story.

    I cried unexpectedly too today. I was (because they asked) telling the girls the story of our miscarriage before our eldest was born, and suddenly all the rawness of it came back. All is fiine now of course, and if we hadn't lost that one we wouldn't have the ones we have now - but no way of knowing that at the time.

    Anyway, keeping it light, I've had a splendid day. Llandudno is wonderful. Like, I imagine, British seaside towns used to be - but somehow hasn't been killed off by cheap trips abroad like others have. And its setting is magical. The Great Orme derives its name from 'worm' in its ancient sense of wingless dragon, and I can completely see why.

    Completely agree on Llandudno, they have avoided the fate of many faded resorts like Colwyn Bay and Rhyl (especially Rhyl).
    It's a really interesting case study in what has gone right. It has the advantage over some resorts of setting, which is dramatic, but also the disadvantage that the main beach isn't actually that good.

    We also went to Conwy - not technically a seaside resort, but also a surprisingly pleasant little town and an interesting case study in what has gone right.

    Happy to report also that 20mph limits were nowhere near being the problems I had perceived - the only places I experienced them were places where 20 seemed an entirely reasonable speed to drive.
    I am on the Isle of Wight this week and there is almost an inverse relationship between how good the beach is and how nice the town. Sandown is probably the best beach, but really run down, while Bembridge is really posh, but a poor beach. There are other similar examples.

    It may well be that too much focus on a beach is part of the problem with British seaside resorts, it takes the focus off the town itself. It might be true of other countries too.
    I think you're onto something. Rhyl has a great sandy beach and the sewage outlet pipe goes a couple of miles out to sea now which wasn't the case when I were a child. But no matter how nice the beach is, it's still the Irish Sea.
    Nothing wrong with the Irish Sea.
    But yes, I think Foxy may be on to something. As well as Rhyl, I would add Blackpool and Newquay as towns with really good beaches but where the town itself leaves something to be desired.
    Cornwall doesn't generally follow this rule however

    St Ives, Falmouth, Padstow - all nice or very nice towns with gorgeous beaches

    Penzance, Hayle, Carbis Bay - grottier towns, also with gorgeous beaches

    Maybe Cornwall just has loads of great beaches
    Tenby: lovely town, lovely beach.
    Bamburgh: exceptional beach, very nice village and castle
    Margate and Weymouth: decent on both counts
    Poole: solid town (Bournemouth less so), great beaches
    Weston SM: shit town, shit beach

    But, other towns do fit the theory: Lyme Regis, Hastings, Whitstable, Swansea, Barry, Cromer etc.

    One theory could be that places with very good, large bathing beaches had sandy soil and little or no surface fresh water so didn’t get built up until quite late, during the Victorian beach boom. When resorts declined they didn’t have the pretty historical roots to fall back on.

    You see that with the Sussex and Kent coasts. Inland former coastal towns like Rye or Sandwich get all the nice architecture, while the coastal extensions are more often than not 60s bungalow strips.
    Ooh, I like that theory! Very good. Not least because I have been looking at a 17th century map of Lancashire on which neither Blackpool or Southport feature, possibly for that very reason.
    That doesn't really work with Deal, which has decent architecture from many periods.
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