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What shall we read into this? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,615
edited August 7 in General
What shall we read into this? – politicalbetting.com

NBC News confirms: JD Vance will meet tonight at his residence with Susie Wiles, Pam Bondi, Deputy AG Todd Blanche, FBI Director Kash Patel, and other top Trump officials to discuss the Epstein scandal. @MSNBC

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  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,440
    edited August 7
    Putsch!
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,771
    edited August 7
    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 74,772
    edited August 7
    You can't invoke the 25th against the wishes of a president able to speak (well, technically write but speak would do) without the support of 2/3 of Congress.

    I don't see a path to that for Vance.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,477
    @coachfinstock.bsky.social‬

    Wait they canceled it? That looks worse. Like that asshole at the Coldplay concert if you play it cool there's plausible deniability but freaking out and canceling your Epstein dinner because it leaked looks worse

    https://bsky.app/profile/coachfinstock.bsky.social/post/3lvrljdiyp22e
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,477
    @kevinmkruse.bsky.social‬

    VANCE: As an ice breaker, let's all name our favorite amendment to the Constitution. Pam?

    BONDI: Uh ... the First, I guess?

    BLANCHE: Can't represent the Big Guy without the Fifth!

    PATEL: #2 on the list, but #1 in my heart. All about the guns, son!

    VANCE: So ... no fans of the 25th huh
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 32,267
    FPT
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    fitalass said:

    Nigelb said:

    Just have to remind everyone that John Major was a great deal smarter than he was given credit for.

    https://x.com/implausibleblog/status/1953028976105894349
    In 2016 John Major called out the lies and deception of Vote Leave,

    "I am angry at the way the British people are being misled. This is much more important than a general election. This referendum will affect people, their livelihoods, their future, for a very long time"

    "If they are given honest straight forward facts and they decide to leave, then that is the decision the British people take"

    "But if they decide to leave on the basis of inaccurate information, inaccurate information known to be inaccurate, then I regard that as deceitful"

    "That is how I see Vote Leave's campaign"

    "This is a deceitful campaign"

    "And in terms of what they're saying about immigration, they are misleading people to an extraordinary extent"

    "The nonsense we. hear from Vote Leave, about lets get our mojo back and become a great country. We already are a great and successful country, which is why immigrants are coming to us"

    "How will leaving the EU reduce immigration numbers? There are already more people coming into the country from outside the European Union than inside"

    "People are being invited to vote for a pig in a poke"

    I voted remain in the EU referendum just like I voted No in the Indy referendum held here in Scotland. I was gutted at the result of the EU referendum as I recorded on here on the night when the result was declared. But I still to this day remain far more angry at the arrogant leaders of the various leading EU countries who were in charge of understanding and recognising the key important contribution that the UK made to the EU, not least the fact we were one of the only key net financial contributors! And not only did none of them lift a finger to help David Cameron and his government in their campaign to fight for us to remain in the EU, they proceeded to embarrass and try to humiliate him much in the way they did Theresa May when she tried to negociate a soft Brexit!

    I still remain convinced that the optics of the sheer arrogance of those EU leaders behaviour towards Cameron and the UK when he went begging bowl in hand and asked for some small concessions for the UK to prove we were an important and integral part of the EU that he could take home and sell and they very loudly said no did more to swing the EU referendum result than a spending declaration by the Leave campaign on the side of a bus!! The collective EU leaderships position of trying to humilate the UK Government did more to shift the leave result over the line...

    I don't disagree with much of that.
    Both Cameron and the EU were complacent about the risks. Cameron didn't push hard enough, and leaders like Merkel thought only of their shortsighted national interests.

    It was lose/lose, and they ought to have seen that coming.

    This is where we disagree, I think that Cameron was anything but complacent to the risks of an EU referendum leave result during the campaign and he passionately tried to warn his EU counterparts who refused to listen or give him the time of day. Cameron had granted Scotland an Indy referendum and he had already fought for Scotland to remain in the UK during that Indy referendum and he bore the scars from that campaign, but he and the UK Government did everything to support the No campaign, the key EU leaders didn't lift a finger to help him or his government or the Remain campaign, if anything their arrogant refusal to even acknowledge the UK's key contributions to the EU played into the Leave campaign.
    That is in fact not quite true. Cameron banned the EU or its senior figures from taking further part in the campaign even though several of them wanted to, as he recognised this would be counterproductive. The unpopularity of EU officials and leaders was and indeed is part of the problem not part of the solution.

    To this day, Jean-Claude Juncker believes Remain would have won if he could have campaigned for it. Which goes to show he’s not only a drunk and a fascist but also a delusional twat.
    The Remain campaign was very poor, as I posted here at the time. It was all project fear and negativity, with very little positivity or idealism. A marked contrast with the 1975 one, and it couldn't have been worse if significant EU figures had been involved, and might have been a lot better.

    The national malaise that "Britain is Broken" largely stems from the 2016 referendum when people are aked, and there is a strong majority that the decision was wrong. The wrong lesson has been learned and that catastrophic decision looks likely to elevate its chief architect to Downing St. It has destroyed the Tories as a functioning party too. It isn't going to end well.
    Er...no. Given how unpopular they were, bringing them in would probably have altered the result, but to 60/40 leave rather than 52/48.
    We can never know, but it certainly have been a more informed debate. Don't project your own dislikes on the whole electorate.

    A decisive 60/40 split would incidentally have been better than 52/48.

    Brexit is as significant as the Suez crisis as a waypoint in national decline.
    Yes, you've accidentally said something quite insightful there. Brexit (over a longer period) can be compared to Suez, because of the underlying issues that became overlying issues in its wake. Suez itself was not the cause of the issues (and nor was Brexit) but it was a highly visible symbol of them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,582
    The meeting is to check that Vance isn't in the Epstein files.

    They don't want another President tarnished with that particular paedo-brush.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,477

    The meeting is to check that Vance isn't in the Epstein files.

    They don't want another President tarnished with that particular paedo-brush.

    The whole party is tarnished
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 33,440
    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Rubbish. Biden's cognitive health in his final year was reminiscent of Albert Einstein in his heyday compared to current Trump levels of cognitive decline.

    Biden may have occasionally slurred his words but he wasn't a clear and present danger to mankind.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,981
    Well, the fix is in.

    It's just not yet clear which particular fix.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 23,223
    They're meeting to play Top Trumps. Official.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,224
    Scott_xP said:

    The meeting is to check that Vance isn't in the Epstein files.

    They don't want another President tarnished with that particular paedo-brush.

    The whole party is tarnished
    The whole Republican Party is tarnished with a Trumpism. The Epstein tarnish is another set - which takes in a large chunk of both parties.

    Hence the calls from people in both parties - “Prosecute them all, and if our people are part of it, fine”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 52,495
    Release the paedo-files, not the paedophiles.

    Trump's mental decline becomes more obvious every week. The 25th is just a matter of time but that cabinet of yesmen, nutters and freaks is going to be a long time coming to that conclusion.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 15,767

    They're meeting to play Top Trumps. Official.

    Top Trumps: POTUS could work quite well.

    Age:
    Height:
    Electoral college votes:
    Wars:
    Net wealth:
    Impeachments:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,981
    Responding to ANI's question on US imports of Russian Uranium, chemical fertilisers while criticising their (Indian) energy imports', US President Donald Trump says, "I don't know anything about it. I have to check..."
    https://x.com/ANI/status/1952877566047449426

    Sure.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,760
    Foxy said:

    Release the paedo-files, not the paedophiles.

    Trump's mental decline becomes more obvious every week. The 25th is just a matter of time but that cabinet of yesmen, nutters and freaks is going to be a long time coming to that conclusion.

    I think you might be underestimating Vance's ambition there.
    The Epstein files might be the perfect dirt to get him there.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,224
    Foxy said:

    Release the paedo-files, not the paedophiles.

    Trump's mental decline becomes more obvious every week. The 25th is just a matter of time but that cabinet of yesmen, nutters and freaks is going to be a long time coming to that conclusion.

    The cabinet was picked for slavish devotion to The Leader. They won’t move if Trump
    Is reduced to the mental capacity of Truss, let alone a cabbage.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,004

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Rubbish. Biden's cognitive health in his final year was reminiscent of Albert Einstein in his heyday compared to current Trump levels of cognitive decline.

    Biden may have occasionally slurred his words but he wasn't a clear and present danger to mankind.
    He was senile.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 123,158
    Ugh, Andrew Bailey needs to be sacked, why won't anyone think about us poor savers?

    UK interest rates expected to be cut to 4%

    Bank of England expected to react to a weakening economy despite inflation rising to 3.6 per cent


    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/economics/article/interest-rates-uk-bank-of-england-predictions-august-2025-t6nf3sbdq
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 64,004
    "Suez" was a recognition we no longer were able to act totally independently as a world power - we weren't economically or politically strong enough.

    It happened quite late (1956) but it could have happened at any point over the previous 20 years, or even a few years later. We just didn't get involved in the 1930s and, during WWII, aside from aerial defence and the Royal Navy couldn't do much alone.

    So, it was a symptom, not a cause.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,981
    ydoethur said:

    You can't invoke the 25th against the wishes of a president able to speak (well, technically write but speak would do) without the support of 2/3 of Congress.

    I don't see a path to that for Vance.

    Yes, the idea is extremely unlikely.
    They, and the rest of the corrupt administration, owe their places to Trump, and have demonstrated craven obedience on a pretty constant basis.

    The idea of such a crew, who have little other reason to trust each other, taking a wild gamble on Vance, and an untried procedure, to chuck out the guy who has the up until now unwavering support of MAGA, strains credulity.

    Vance certainly has to be worried that the Epstein affair might damage his chances of succeeding Trump to the presidency, but a meeting like this is more likely about how to cover it up, rather than how to depose Trump.

    Not that Vance wouldn't, if there were a less risky way of doing it.
  • BattlebusBattlebus Posts: 1,318

    The meeting is to check that Vance isn't in the Epstein files.

    They don't want another President tarnished with that particular paedo-brush.

    Sofa so good.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,224
    edited August 7

    "Suez" was a recognition we no longer were able to act totally independently as a world power - we weren't economically or politically strong enough.

    It happened quite late (1956) but it could have happened at any point over the previous 20 years, or even a few years later. We just didn't get involved in the 1930s and, during WWII, aside from aerial defence and the Royal Navy couldn't do much alone.

    So, it was a symptom, not a cause.

    In WWII, the surface Royal Navy chased/harried the German surface navy to extinction, pretty much on their own. They comprehensively defeated the Italian surface navy as well
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,981
    edited August 7
    So the trade deal Japan just shook on with Trump lasted all of a week.
    What's the point of negotiating with the US at all ?

    Dozens more countries face higher taxes on exports to US as new Trump tariffs come into effect
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/aug/07/trump-tariffs-come-into-force-taxes-us-exports

    Much more of this, and we're going to see western aligned countries start to pivot to dealing with China.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 11,838

    Ugh, Andrew Bailey needs to be sacked, why won't anyone think about us poor savers?

    UK interest rates expected to be cut to 4%

    Bank of England expected to react to a weakening economy despite inflation rising to 3.6 per cent


    https://www.thetimes.com/business-money/economics/article/interest-rates-uk-bank-of-england-predictions-august-2025-t6nf3sbdq

    Well, playing fast and loose with inflation now will probably soon lead to rates going up again. So maybe he's doing savers a kindness. And then as the country goes to ruin we can happily look at our gains - until we have to hand all of those gains and more over to Ms Reeves.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 19,339
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    You can't invoke the 25th against the wishes of a president able to speak (well, technically write but speak would do) without the support of 2/3 of Congress.

    I don't see a path to that for Vance.

    Yes, the idea is extremely unlikely.
    They, and the rest of the corrupt administration, owe their places to Trump, and have demonstrated craven obedience on a pretty constant basis.

    The idea of such a crew, who have little other reason to trust each other, taking a wild gamble on Vance, and an untried procedure, to chuck out the guy who has the up until now unwavering support of MAGA, strains credulity.

    Vance certainly has to be worried that the Epstein affair might damage his chances of succeeding Trump to the presidency, but a meeting like this is more likely about how to cover it up, rather than how to depose Trump.

    Not that Vance wouldn't, if there were a less risky way of doing it.
    The historical precedents for strong leaders/near-dictators/actual dictators being deposed because their bodies and minds have turned to mush aren't great.

    It may look like a very unstable equilibrium, but it can persist for ages.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,981

    "Suez" was a recognition we no longer were able to act totally independently as a world power - we weren't economically or politically strong enough.

    It happened quite late (1956) but it could have happened at any point over the previous 20 years, or even a few years later. We just didn't get involved in the 1930s and, during WWII, aside from aerial defence and the Royal Navy couldn't do much alone.

    So, it was a symptom, not a cause.

    In WWII, the surface Royal Navy chased/harried the German surface navy to extinction, pretty much on their own. They comprehensively defeated the Italian surface navy as well
    Yes, I think Casino is possibly wrong here.
    The point about WWII, though, isn't that we were still a great power, but rather that we (and the rest of Europe) exhausted our economies to the point where any chance of competing with with the US on any kind of level terms just disappeared.

    I don't think that was a given prior to WWII.
    Don't forget that a significant part of their technological advance came from European exiles.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,378
    It would take the whole Cabinet to invoke the 25th amendment. Vance is though no doubt checking the Epstein reports with others to see if any smoking gun and waiting to see if the midterms are a disaster for the GOP before making a move
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,406
    For all the talk of TACO, it's clear Trump is implementing much higher tariffs.

    As of today the average US tariff on imports is over 18%. Which compares to 2.5% last year. And doesn't include further threatened increases.

    That's the highest since the 1930s, for context.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,810
    edited August 7

    Hah.


    Hmm, unless they're trying to sell something, I think most actual tech people are somewhat more circumspect about the potential of AI.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 11,430
    edited August 7
    Ratters said:

    For all the talk of TACO, it's clear Trump is implementing much higher tariffs.

    As of today the average US tariff on imports is over 18%. Which compares to 2.5% last year. And doesn't include further threatened increases.

    That's the highest since the 1930s, for context.

    The concern is that because this has become normalised (or at least, it's not as crazy as was first proposed), we've forgotten just how disruptive this is going to be to the global economy. We focus on short term changes in indicators, which usually represent a change in expectations, so everything looks rosy.
  • fitalassfitalass Posts: 4,470

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Rubbish. Biden's cognitive health in his final year was reminiscent of Albert Einstein in his heyday compared to current Trump levels of cognitive decline.

    Biden may have occasionally slurred his words but he wasn't a clear and present danger to mankind.
    He was senile.
    My biggest betting regret in recent years apart from not backing my gut instinct on my early prediction back in 2020 that Johnson, Sturgeon & the other then devolved leaders would not be around to fight the next GE was not to bet heavily on Biden not being fit enough to finish his first term in office and certainly not in a position to be able to fight another presidential election. I still remain utterly amazed at the amount of political commenators who just assumed he would... You win some and you lose some.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,378

    "Suez" was a recognition we no longer were able to act totally independently as a world power - we weren't economically or politically strong enough.

    It happened quite late (1956) but it could have happened at any point over the previous 20 years, or even a few years later. We just didn't get involved in the 1930s and, during WWII, aside from aerial defence and the Royal Navy couldn't do much alone.

    So, it was a symptom, not a cause.

    We acted with the French in Suez, not alone.

    It was more a symbol we could no longer act independently in foreign affairs without US support outside of Europe
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,073
    Scott_xP said:

    @kevinmkruse.bsky.social‬

    VANCE: As an ice breaker, let's all name our favorite amendment to the Constitution. Pam?

    BONDI: Uh ... the First, I guess?

    BLANCHE: Can't represent the Big Guy without the Fifth!

    PATEL: #2 on the list, but #1 in my heart. All about the guns, son!

    VANCE: So ... no fans of the 25th huh

    Brilliant
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,213
    Morning all,

    On topic: why did they publicise this meeting? This group of people could have met somewhere in WH at any time without all the fnafare.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,224
    Nigelb said:

    "Suez" was a recognition we no longer were able to act totally independently as a world power - we weren't economically or politically strong enough.

    It happened quite late (1956) but it could have happened at any point over the previous 20 years, or even a few years later. We just didn't get involved in the 1930s and, during WWII, aside from aerial defence and the Royal Navy couldn't do much alone.

    So, it was a symptom, not a cause.

    In WWII, the surface Royal Navy chased/harried the German surface navy to extinction, pretty much on their own. They comprehensively defeated the Italian surface navy as well
    Yes, I think Casino is possibly wrong here.
    The point about WWII, though, isn't that we were still a great power, but rather that we (and the rest of Europe) exhausted our economies to the point where any chance of competing with with the US on any kind of level terms just disappeared.

    I don't think that was a given prior to WWII.
    Don't forget that a significant part of their technological advance came from European exiles.
    More that the scale of things changed.

    US potential productive capacity had been larger than anyone else on the planet for a while. WWII simply turbocharged them getting there.

    It wasn’t just destruction of other economies.

    The scale required to be a Big Power massively increased.

    To give an example - if at Pearl Harbour, the Japanese had sunk the entire US fleet, down to the last rowboat, the US would have had superiority, again, over the Japanese 5 months later than in our timeline.

    The industrial capacity of the US, at this point, relative to the planet was absurd. The U.K. decided they couldn’t afford the 75 and 100 ton bomber projects. The US ran the B29, B32 and B36 in parallel. The Manhattan project was just another big project. When other countries were considering aircraft carriers vs battleships, the US built both.

    All this while barely touching the domestic economy - certainly compared to other nations in WWII

    It’s no so much that the U.K. got small, as the US and the USSR got big.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,213
    Eabhal said:

    Ratters said:

    For all the talk of TACO, it's clear Trump is implementing much higher tariffs.

    As of today the average US tariff on imports is over 18%. Which compares to 2.5% last year. And doesn't include further threatened increases.

    That's the highest since the 1930s, for context.

    The concern is that because this has become normalised (or at least, it's not as crazy as was first proposed), we've forgotten just how disruptive this is going to be to the global economy. We focus on short term changes in indicators, which usually represent a change in expectations, so everything looks rosy.
    Classic Trump. Threaten to kill everyone in the room and then all round relief when only the tallest three are killed instead.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,553
    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Not me and I'm as anti-Trump as you can get outside Michelle Obama. I hold close to zero hopes for him being removed on incapacity grounds. He is and remains supremely capable of doing the job as he sees it - that of exploiting the enormous power of the US presidency for personal gain.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,607
    edited August 7

    Eabhal said:

    Ratters said:

    For all the talk of TACO, it's clear Trump is implementing much higher tariffs.

    As of today the average US tariff on imports is over 18%. Which compares to 2.5% last year. And doesn't include further threatened increases.

    That's the highest since the 1930s, for context.

    The concern is that because this has become normalised (or at least, it's not as crazy as was first proposed), we've forgotten just how disruptive this is going to be to the global economy. We focus on short term changes in indicators, which usually represent a change in expectations, so everything looks rosy.
    Classic Trump. Threaten to kill everyone in the room and then all round relief when only the tallest three are killed instead.
    Anchoring.

    We saw that with UK budget last year. Its just Trump does it to the extreme, but I think that is probably grounded in him growing up doing real estate in NYC where you deal with the many dodgy individuals.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,582

    Morning all,

    On topic: why did they publicise this meeting? This group of people could have met somewhere in WH at any time without all the fnafare.

    They probably accidentally inluded a journalist from the Atlantic on the invite...
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 15,092
    WRT Epstein, I suggest only two things: Firstly that we should wait and see, and secondly our old friend Occam's razor.

    The razor suggests this: Trump campaigned on Epstein promises because it was essential to being elected. The high degree of silence and evasion now not only from Trump but from a large number of top sources is explained by the very large number of people who are somehow implicated. If Trump falls from this so do lots of others. No further complicated explanations are needed.

    Will it work? Wait and see.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,477
    It is more likely that Trump drops dead before being removed by the cabinet, but they would remove him if their personal pain threshold is breached.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,607
    edited August 7
    kinabalu said:

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Not me and I'm as anti-Trump as you can get outside Michelle Obama. I hold close to zero hopes for him being removed on incapacity grounds. He is and remains supremely capable of doing the job as he sees it - that of exploiting the enormous power of the US presidency for personal gain.
    He has certainly declined compared to when you see his media appearances in say the 90s, but we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,582
    Scott_xP said:

    The meeting is to check that Vance isn't in the Epstein files.

    They don't want another President tarnished with that particular paedo-brush.

    The whole party is tarnished
    The whole Republican party is tarnished whilst they give Trump a pass for all actions, however corrupt or illegal.

    Maybe their secret grand strategy is to have a mass-cleansing by removing him?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,553
    fitalass said:

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Rubbish. Biden's cognitive health in his final year was reminiscent of Albert Einstein in his heyday compared to current Trump levels of cognitive decline.

    Biden may have occasionally slurred his words but he wasn't a clear and present danger to mankind.
    He was senile.
    My biggest betting regret in recent years apart from not backing my gut instinct on my early prediction back in 2020 that Johnson, Sturgeon & the other then devolved leaders would not be around to fight the next GE was not to bet heavily on Biden not being fit enough to finish his first term in office and certainly not in a position to be able to fight another presidential election. I still remain utterly amazed at the amount of political commenators who just assumed he would... You win some and you lose some.
    I did lay him and made good £ from it. Sadly it only mitigated the bigger £ lost from laying Trump.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,609
    HYUFD said:

    "Suez" was a recognition we no longer were able to act totally independently as a world power - we weren't economically or politically strong enough.

    It happened quite late (1956) but it could have happened at any point over the previous 20 years, or even a few years later. We just didn't get involved in the 1930s and, during WWII, aside from aerial defence and the Royal Navy couldn't do much alone.

    So, it was a symptom, not a cause.

    We acted with the French in Suez, not alone.

    It was more a symbol we could no longer act independently in foreign affairs without US support outside of Europe
    Don’t forget that the most moral army in the world was also on ‘our’ side.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,582
    edited August 7
    I imagine Governor Newsom has done his Presidential chances no harm by his reponse to the threateed Texas gerrymander - which is in turn to threaten have California lead a mass of blue states in a similar effort to eradicate the opposition from Congress.

    The squealing from Republicans at this threat is a thing to behold....
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,018
    fitalass said:

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Rubbish. Biden's cognitive health in his final year was reminiscent of Albert Einstein in his heyday compared to current Trump levels of cognitive decline.

    Biden may have occasionally slurred his words but he wasn't a clear and present danger to mankind.
    He was senile.
    My biggest betting regret in recent years apart from not backing my gut instinct on my early prediction back in 2020 that Johnson, Sturgeon & the other then devolved leaders would not be around to fight the next GE was not to bet heavily on Biden not being fit enough to finish his first term in office and certainly not in a position to be able to fight another presidential election. I still remain utterly amazed at the amount of political commenators who just assumed he would... You win some and you lose some.
    Not so much the political commentators but the Dem politicians.

    They were fine with having a presidential candidate they knew was senile and but for one bad night they might have got away with it.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,477

    we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.

    We really aren't

    And while Trump lies almost as easily as BoZo, the problem with his mental decline is that he is starting to believe his own confabulations.

    He told a story a few weeks ago that his uncle taught the Unabomber.

    Yes, his uncle was a university professor.

    Yes, the unabomber went to university.

    Not the same university. Not at the same time. They never met.

    Biden was (mostly) harmless. Trump is a clear and present danger.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,477

    Scott_xP said:

    The meeting is to check that Vance isn't in the Epstein files.

    They don't want another President tarnished with that particular paedo-brush.

    The whole party is tarnished
    The whole Republican party is tarnished whilst they give Trump a pass for all actions, however corrupt or illegal.

    Maybe their secret grand strategy is to have a mass-cleansing by removing him?
    I don't know how they get away with that, but I am sure they will try.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,981
    fitalass said:

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Rubbish. Biden's cognitive health in his final year was reminiscent of Albert Einstein in his heyday compared to current Trump levels of cognitive decline.

    Biden may have occasionally slurred his words but he wasn't a clear and present danger to mankind.
    He was senile.
    My biggest betting regret in recent years apart from not backing my gut instinct on my early prediction back in 2020 that Johnson, Sturgeon & the other then devolved leaders would not be around to fight the next GE was not to bet heavily on Biden not being fit enough to finish his first term in office and certainly not in a position to be able to fight another presidential election. I still remain utterly amazed at the amount of political commenators who just assumed he would... You win some and you lose some.
    I lost a fair amount of money laying Biden way too early, at longish odds, which later shortened.

    So 2020 was quite a bit too early to be betting on the US outcome, as a lot of people don't expect him to try to run again at that point.

    The best time to lay Biden was much later, after he'd intimidated the rest of the Democrats into not standing for the nomination.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,949
    Good morning everyone.

    I guess the question on the header is - where was Trump?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,213
    Only over 75s, care home residents and immunosuppressed to be given Covid vax this Autumn.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 55,582
    Scott_xP said:

    It is more likely that Trump drops dead before being removed by the cabinet, but they would remove him if their personal pain threshold is breached.

    The money behind Project 2025 will decide when Vance is more useful to them than Trump. So far he is delivering - so safe.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/project-2025-trump-administration-six-months-b2802384.html

    Plus it will suit them for Vance to take over after the halfway point of Trump 2 - meaning they can get 10 years of him rather than 6 and a bit
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 9,260
    edited August 7
    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    I guess the question on the header is - where was Trump?

    That's what I thought.
    Was the proposed meeting with or without his knowledge/support?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,607
    edited August 7
    Scott_xP said:

    we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.

    We really aren't

    And while Trump lies almost as easily as BoZo, the problem with his mental decline is that he is starting to believe his own confabulations.

    He told a story a few weeks ago that his uncle taught the Unabomber.

    Yes, his uncle was a university professor.

    Yes, the unabomber went to university.

    Not the same university. Not at the same time. They never met.

    Biden was (mostly) harmless. Trump is a clear and present danger.
    I don't think that is evidence of decline. Trump through out his life loves to tell absolutely BS stories and also just openly lie about either being friends with people or never heard of them (despite loads of photos of them together). He was doing it 10 years ago on the campaign trail, easily fact checkable stories he would spew.

    Biden couldn't do 5 minute appearances. Trump in comparison is still out there muck spreading his BS like some kid with ADHD.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,981

    Nigelb said:

    "Suez" was a recognition we no longer were able to act totally independently as a world power - we weren't economically or politically strong enough.

    It happened quite late (1956) but it could have happened at any point over the previous 20 years, or even a few years later. We just didn't get involved in the 1930s and, during WWII, aside from aerial defence and the Royal Navy couldn't do much alone.

    So, it was a symptom, not a cause.

    In WWII, the surface Royal Navy chased/harried the German surface navy to extinction, pretty much on their own. They comprehensively defeated the Italian surface navy as well
    Yes, I think Casino is possibly wrong here.
    The point about WWII, though, isn't that we were still a great power, but rather that we (and the rest of Europe) exhausted our economies to the point where any chance of competing with with the US on any kind of level terms just disappeared.

    I don't think that was a given prior to WWII.
    Don't forget that a significant part of their technological advance came from European exiles.
    More that the scale of things changed.

    US potential productive capacity had been larger than anyone else on the planet for a while. WWII simply turbocharged them getting there.

    It wasn’t just destruction of other economies.

    The scale required to be a Big Power massively increased.

    To give an example - if at Pearl Harbour, the Japanese had sunk the entire US fleet, down to the last rowboat, the US would have had superiority, again, over the Japanese 5 months later than in our timeline.

    The industrial capacity of the US, at this point, relative to the planet was absurd. The U.K. decided they couldn’t afford the 75 and 100 ton bomber projects. The US ran the B29, B32 and B36 in parallel. The Manhattan project was just another big project. When other countries were considering aircraft carriers vs battleships, the US built both.

    All this while barely touching the domestic economy - certainly compared to other nations in WWII

    It’s no so much that the U.K. got small, as the US and the USSR got big.
    I'm talking about a world where WWII didn't happen, though.
    Europe, in fighting itself, in Europe, destroyed a vast amount of industrial capacity while the US just continued to build. And got to pick over the industrial carcass of Europe for the choicest pickings, after the war.
  • philiphphiliph Posts: 4,706
    Scott_xP said:

    we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.

    We really aren't

    And while Trump lies almost as easily as BoZo, the problem with his mental decline is that he is starting to believe his own confabulations.

    He told a story a few weeks ago that his uncle taught the Unabomber.

    Yes, his uncle was a university professor.

    Yes, the unabomber went to university.

    Not the same university. Not at the same time. They never met.

    Biden was (mostly) harmless. Trump is a clear and present danger.
    @Scott xP Thank you for adding confabulations to my vocabulay.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,609
    Scott_xP said:

    we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.

    We really aren't

    And while Trump lies almost as easily as BoZo, the problem with his mental decline is that he is starting to believe his own confabulations.

    He told a story a few weeks ago that his uncle taught the Unabomber.

    Yes, his uncle was a university professor.

    Yes, the unabomber went to university.

    Not the same university. Not at the same time. They never met.

    Biden was (mostly) harmless. Trump is a clear and present danger.
    Though deranged, in mental decline, dishonest, malevolent and crude all apply to Trump, ignorant is the overarching description of his ‘career’. He’s incurious about everything except money, fawning and young beauty queen candidates.
    A case in point.

    https://x.com/sprinterobserve/status/1953207168066568395?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 56,224
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    "Suez" was a recognition we no longer were able to act totally independently as a world power - we weren't economically or politically strong enough.

    It happened quite late (1956) but it could have happened at any point over the previous 20 years, or even a few years later. We just didn't get involved in the 1930s and, during WWII, aside from aerial defence and the Royal Navy couldn't do much alone.

    So, it was a symptom, not a cause.

    In WWII, the surface Royal Navy chased/harried the German surface navy to extinction, pretty much on their own. They comprehensively defeated the Italian surface navy as well
    Yes, I think Casino is possibly wrong here.
    The point about WWII, though, isn't that we were still a great power, but rather that we (and the rest of Europe) exhausted our economies to the point where any chance of competing with with the US on any kind of level terms just disappeared.

    I don't think that was a given prior to WWII.
    Don't forget that a significant part of their technological advance came from European exiles.
    More that the scale of things changed.

    US potential productive capacity had been larger than anyone else on the planet for a while. WWII simply turbocharged them getting there.

    It wasn’t just destruction of other economies.

    The scale required to be a Big Power massively increased.

    To give an example - if at Pearl Harbour, the Japanese had sunk the entire US fleet, down to the last rowboat, the US would have had superiority, again, over the Japanese 5 months later than in our timeline.

    The industrial capacity of the US, at this point, relative to the planet was absurd. The U.K. decided they couldn’t afford the 75 and 100 ton bomber projects. The US ran the B29, B32 and B36 in parallel. The Manhattan project was just another big project. When other countries were considering aircraft carriers vs battleships, the US built both.

    All this while barely touching the domestic economy - certainly compared to other nations in WWII

    It’s no so much that the U.K. got small, as the US and the USSR got big.
    I'm talking about a world where WWII didn't happen, though.
    Europe, in fighting itself, in Europe, destroyed a vast amount of industrial capacity while the US just continued to build. And got to pick over the industrial carcass of Europe for the choicest pickings, after the war.
    If you actually look at the numbers, the post war booms sent GDP per head, all over Europe, to the stars. That mad graph I post for the U.K., from time to time was true for pretty much all Western Europe.

    Harold Macmillan wasn’t howled down for saying “they never had it so good” - it was the literal truth.

    The US had the same thing, on a bigger stage.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,043
    Morning all :)

    As an aside, Goodwood reported a healthy increase in crowd numbers for its Festival meeting last week, The Public Enclosure (the cheap seats) had crowd numbers up 10% from 2024 while even the posh areas saw a 5% rise and that was despite last Thursdy's biblical deluge.

    Attendances at race meetings are doing well and some evidence there's still plenty of discretionary income out there to be spent despite the notion we are on our knees, society is broken and we are one step away from anarchy and barbarism under Labour.

    It's all much more nuanced than that - it always has been.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,018

    I imagine Governor Newsom has done his Presidential chances no harm by his reponse to the threateed Texas gerrymander - which is in turn to threaten have California lead a mass of blue states in a similar effort to eradicate the opposition from Congress.

    The squealing from Republicans at this threat is a thing to behold....

    I think you need to check the 2024 results to see how much the Dems have already gerrymandered their states.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections#Per_state

    California
    Dem 43
    GOP 9
    Ratio 4.8:1

    Illinois
    Dem 14
    GOP 3
    Ratio 4.7:1

    New York
    Dem 19
    GOP 7
    Ratio 2.7:1

    Texas
    GOP 25
    Dem 13
    Ratio 1.9:1

    The balance of gerrymandering (and vote rigging) benefited the Dems in 2024.

    Which is why the GOP only had a House majority of 5 despite their 3% lead in the popular vote.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,981

    Nigelb said:

    Responding to ANI's question on US imports of Russian Uranium, chemical fertilisers while criticising their (Indian) energy imports', US President Donald Trump says, "I don't know anything about it. I have to check..."
    https://x.com/ANI/status/1952877566047449426

    Sure.

    He very likely doesn't know anything about it.

    Whether he bothers to check or remembers he should check are different questions.

    Saying "I don't know, I'll check" is a perfectly valid response which more politicians should use instead of pretending they know about an issue when they don't.
    This is a guy who just imposed 50% tariffs on $100bn of trade with India, for doing something the US itself seems to be doing, and "doesn't know anything about it".

    That is not a perfectly valid response.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,553

    kinabalu said:

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Not me and I'm as anti-Trump as you can get outside Michelle Obama. I hold close to zero hopes for him being removed on incapacity grounds. He is and remains supremely capable of doing the job as he sees it - that of exploiting the enormous power of the US presidency for personal gain.
    He has certainly declined compared to when you see his media appearances in say the 90s, but we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.
    Yes, it's his character not his health that renders him unfit to be president. The amazing trick he's pulled off - and it is amazing - is to have normal standards of behaviour suspended as regards to himself. Several times a day he says or does stuff that ought to disqualify him from office but people just chuckle (either admiringly or in sardonic bewilderment) and on we go. It's a truly bizarre phenomenon. I just hope a critical mass of the swing voters over there wake up to what they enabled on 5/11 and find a way to reverse it asap.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 66,328
    edited August 7

    Only over 75s, care home residents and immunosuppressed to be given Covid vax this Autumn.

    Good morning

    My wife and I have had a total of 10 covid vax (each), had covid itself twice and was really ill, and it looks like more to follow !!!!!!!!!!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,607
    edited August 7
    In his latest video, Bobby looks like he is a Mormon missionary....I can't concentrate on what he is saying due to all the hand waving.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1953350916809044266
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 86,607
    edited August 7

    Only over 75s, care home residents and immunosuppressed to be given Covid vax this Autumn.

    Good morning

    My wife and I have had a total of 10 covid vax, had covid itself twice and was really ill, and it looks like more to follow !!!!!!!!!!
    The thing is still about. Had COVID last week.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,043
    FPT - for which apologies.

    Betting duty changes.

    Speculation that the Chancellor will raise and unify betting duty has been widespread, and has alarmed the horseracing industry in particular. From our point of view, as political (and sports) punters, it is important to maintain the distinction between skilful betting and games of chance.

    Here is a recent report and proposal:-

    The Duty to Differentiate: How gambling tax reform can raise revenue for the Government, reduce harm to the public and save British horse racing
    https://www.smf.co.uk/publications/online-gambling-tax-reform/


    Gordon Brown's proposals are near the end of his op-ed in the Guardian. The first 80 per cent is about child poverty. The part about betting is:-

    The gambling industry is a licence to print money. Tax it properly – and turbocharge the fight against child poverty

    Excluding the lottery, betting and gaming was an £11.5bn sector last year that incurred only £2.5bn in tax. As much as £3bn extra can be raised from taxing it properly. Remote gaming duty (effectively the tax on online slots games) is about 35% in the Netherlands, 40% in Austria, 50% in Pennsylvania and 57% in tax haven Delaware, two of the few US states where it is legal. Yet the same activity is taxed at just 21% in the UK, raising only £1bn. Applying a 50% levy – much less than the 80% tax on cigarettes and the 70% tax on whisky – would raise £1.6bn more. Raising the general betting duty on bookmakers’ profits from 15% to 25% could generate an additional £450m, after returning £100m as additional support to boost the horseracing industry.

    To achieve parity with their online equivalents, machine game duty payable on the revenue from in-person slot machines should also increase from 25% to 50%. According to IPPR estimates, this would raise an additional £880m.

    The government could then start to reduce child poverty. Unlike almost all other businesses, most gaming and betting is exempt from VAT. Its most addictive practices are responsible for social harm that costs the NHS and other public services more than £1bn a year.

    Gambling levies aren’t the only source of revenue that could pay to alleviate child poverty. But this should be one straightforward budget choice. The government can fulfil today’s unmet needs by taxing an undertaxed sector. Gambling won’t build our country for the next generation, but children, freed from poverty, will.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/aug/06/gambling-industry-profitable-tax-fight-child-poverty

    Horse racing is fighting a strong campaign against tax harmonisation between General Betting Duty and Remote Gaming Duty. The former is currently at 15% and the latter at 21%.

    From the outside, it's easy to look at horse racing as being a sport with plenty of money in it and of course the top end is extremely wealthy but, as is the case in many other industries, the wealth at the top disguises the poverty at the bottom. A lot of what goes on in racing from stable staff to hospitality workers at racecourses to ground staff doesn't command high wages and often involves long hours of often thankless work.

    Racing "claims" hundreds of jobs would be lost if the tax harmonisation plans came into force - the truth is the very top would continues as it does now and the "pain" would be felt at the lower levels (as it always is).

    The superficial attraction of Brown's policy idea belies the fact the industry would contract and those no longer able to work could go to the State for support. As racing stables are often in rural areas where alternative employment is scarce, it would mean further depopulation and increased demand on housing in urban areas. The £100m largesse sent back wouldn't cover all this.

    Yet, as yesterday's fixture announcement shows, racing has money to throw at increasing prize money and incentives for breeders (let's not forget the bloodstock industry which isn't just the top end stud farms).

    It's complicated as public policy always is with many layers and dimensions to consider.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 6,201
    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    As an aside, Goodwood reported a healthy increase in crowd numbers for its Festival meeting last week, The Public Enclosure (the cheap seats) had crowd numbers up 10% from 2024 while even the posh areas saw a 5% rise and that was despite last Thursdy's biblical deluge.

    Attendances at race meetings are doing well and some evidence there's still plenty of discretionary income out there to be spent despite the notion we are on our knees, society is broken and we are one step away from anarchy and barbarism under Labour.

    It's all much more nuanced than that - it always has been.

    Inequality is increasing, despite what politicians say. If you are retired, self employed, have a skilled trade or don’t have young children or a large mortgage, the chances are you will be comfortably off. If you are renting, have a young family, have no useful skills, or on minimum wage, you will be ever poorer.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,378
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Responding to ANI's question on US imports of Russian Uranium, chemical fertilisers while criticising their (Indian) energy imports', US President Donald Trump says, "I don't know anything about it. I have to check..."
    https://x.com/ANI/status/1952877566047449426

    Sure.

    He very likely doesn't know anything about it.

    Whether he bothers to check or remembers he should check are different questions.

    Saying "I don't know, I'll check" is a perfectly valid response which more politicians should use instead of pretending they know about an issue when they don't.
    This is a guy who just imposed 50% tariffs on $100bn of trade with India, for doing something the US itself seems to be doing, and "doesn't know anything about it".

    That is not a perfectly valid response.
    The US is not importing Russian oil like India is.

    To be fair to Trump his tariffs on nations trading heavily with Putin is not something even Biden and Harris were willing to do
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,018
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Responding to ANI's question on US imports of Russian Uranium, chemical fertilisers while criticising their (Indian) energy imports', US President Donald Trump says, "I don't know anything about it. I have to check..."
    https://x.com/ANI/status/1952877566047449426

    Sure.

    He very likely doesn't know anything about it.

    Whether he bothers to check or remembers he should check are different questions.

    Saying "I don't know, I'll check" is a perfectly valid response which more politicians should use instead of pretending they know about an issue when they don't.
    This is a guy who just imposed 50% tariffs on $100bn of trade with India, for doing something the US itself seems to be doing, and "doesn't know anything about it".

    That is not a perfectly valid response.
    Trump has an obsession about the virtues of tariffs.

    He'll use any excuse to impose them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 79,981
    .

    I imagine Governor Newsom has done his Presidential chances no harm by his reponse to the threateed Texas gerrymander - which is in turn to threaten have California lead a mass of blue states in a similar effort to eradicate the opposition from Congress.

    The squealing from Republicans at this threat is a thing to behold....

    I think you need to check the 2024 results to see how much the Dems have already gerrymandered their states.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections#Per_state

    California
    Dem 43
    GOP 9
    Ratio 4.8:1

    Illinois
    Dem 14
    GOP 3
    Ratio 4.7:1

    New York
    Dem 19
    GOP 7
    Ratio 2.7:1

    Texas
    GOP 25
    Dem 13
    Ratio 1.9:1

    The balance of gerrymandering (and vote rigging) benefited the Dems in 2024.

    Which is why the GOP only had a House majority of 5 despite their 3% lead in the popular vote.
    Are you arguing for nationwide proportional representation ?
    The Democrats would probably go for that and take their chances; I'm pretty sure the GOP wouldn't.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,795
    edited August 7

    In his latest video, Bobby looks like he is a Mormon missionary....I can't concentrate on what he is saying due to all the hand waving.

    https://x.com/RobertJenrick/status/1953350916809044266

    I'm pleased because I want tie-wearing to come back into fashion again. 😊
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,213
    algarkirk said:

    Star turn from Gordon Brown on R4 Today this morning; a reminder that Labour have no performers in the same league. With 100% clarity and certainty about the point (gambling tax and child poverty) he wanted to make, he combined it with 100% unclarity about every other hard question, 100% support for the current government and 100% blame for the Tory ones. And he made it sounjd effortless and plausible.

    The thought that we have had a Labour government for a year and still have all that child poverty when Labour could have taxed wealthier people and redirected the money to poor children was avoided entirely. Genius.

    Blair-Brown and a Cabinet team of big hitters like Alan Johnson, Robin Cook and Donald Dewar.

    I fear we will not see their like again in my lifetime.

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,477

    Scott_xP said:

    we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.

    We really aren't

    And while Trump lies almost as easily as BoZo, the problem with his mental decline is that he is starting to believe his own confabulations.

    He told a story a few weeks ago that his uncle taught the Unabomber.

    Yes, his uncle was a university professor.

    Yes, the unabomber went to university.

    Not the same university. Not at the same time. They never met.

    Biden was (mostly) harmless. Trump is a clear and present danger.
    I don't think that is evidence of decline. Trump through out his life loves to tell absolutely BS stories and also just openly lie about either being friends with people or never heard of them (despite loads of photos of them together). He was doing it 10 years ago on the campaign trail, easily fact checkable stories he would spew.

    Biden couldn't do 5 minute appearances. Trump in comparison is still out there muck spreading his BS like some kid with ADHD.
    Trump said he reduced drug prices by 1500%

    That's not just a lie. That's a mathematical impossibility that he no longer understands.

    He has mentally declined "by 1500% (sic) " since he was last in office
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,627

    kinabalu said:

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Not me and I'm as anti-Trump as you can get outside Michelle Obama. I hold close to zero hopes for him being removed on incapacity grounds. He is and remains supremely capable of doing the job as he sees it - that of exploiting the enormous power of the US presidency for personal gain.
    He has certainly declined compared to when you see his media appearances in say the 90s, but we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.
    The amazing thing is a 5 year would know he is lying through his teeth as they are such whoppers but he is impervious to shame or embarrassment and the nodding donkeys just let him away with it and even repeat the lies as gospel. It is bizarre.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,778
    US trade policy is almost as exhausting as the Toon’s transfer window
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 129,378

    Scott_xP said:

    It is more likely that Trump drops dead before being removed by the cabinet, but they would remove him if their personal pain threshold is breached.

    The money behind Project 2025 will decide when Vance is more useful to them than Trump. So far he is delivering - so safe.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/project-2025-trump-administration-six-months-b2802384.html

    Plus it will suit them for Vance to take over after the halfway point of Trump 2 - meaning they can get 10 years of him rather than 6 and a bit
    Vance needs to get his approval ratings up first
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 39,308
    Nigelb said:

    .

    I imagine Governor Newsom has done his Presidential chances no harm by his reponse to the threateed Texas gerrymander - which is in turn to threaten have California lead a mass of blue states in a similar effort to eradicate the opposition from Congress.

    The squealing from Republicans at this threat is a thing to behold....

    I think you need to check the 2024 results to see how much the Dems have already gerrymandered their states.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections#Per_state

    California
    Dem 43
    GOP 9
    Ratio 4.8:1

    Illinois
    Dem 14
    GOP 3
    Ratio 4.7:1

    New York
    Dem 19
    GOP 7
    Ratio 2.7:1

    Texas
    GOP 25
    Dem 13
    Ratio 1.9:1

    The balance of gerrymandering (and vote rigging) benefited the Dems in 2024.

    Which is why the GOP only had a House majority of 5 despite their 3% lead in the popular vote.
    Are you arguing for nationwide proportional representation ?
    The Democrats would probably go for that and take their chances; I'm pretty sure the GOP wouldn't.
    The results of the last six House elections have been highly proportionate to nationwide vote share.

    2012 was the last House election that the Republicans won, despite finishing slightly behind the Democrats in vote share.

    Partisan gerrymandering cancels itself out, at national level.

    It’s hard to see how Newsom could make the California electoral map any more favourable to the Democrats than it already is.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 15,043

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    As an aside, Goodwood reported a healthy increase in crowd numbers for its Festival meeting last week, The Public Enclosure (the cheap seats) had crowd numbers up 10% from 2024 while even the posh areas saw a 5% rise and that was despite last Thursdy's biblical deluge.

    Attendances at race meetings are doing well and some evidence there's still plenty of discretionary income out there to be spent despite the notion we are on our knees, society is broken and we are one step away from anarchy and barbarism under Labour.

    It's all much more nuanced than that - it always has been.

    Inequality is increasing, despite what politicians say. If you are retired, self employed, have a skilled trade or don’t have young children or a large mortgage, the chances are you will be comfortably off. If you are renting, have a young family, have no useful skills, or on minimum wage, you will be ever poorer.
    The NIESR report said as much yesterday and I commented the increase in rents in London (over 8%) is well above inflation and as you rightly say makes those who cannot get onto the housing ladder worse off.

    I'd go further and argue the private rental sector is one of the biggest housing problems we face - the demand for rental accommodation in London is always high but developers want to build properties for ownership and that's well beyond what most people can afford even for a deposit.

    You're also probably right - I've no information on the demographic of those who were at Goodwood last week. It looked from the tv coverage as though there were families present (being the school holidays) but I also suspect white, retired people were over-represented. They are at most midweek meetings which are primarily for the needy and the greedy.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,795

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Rubbish. Biden's cognitive health in his final year was reminiscent of Albert Einstein in his heyday compared to current Trump levels of cognitive decline.

    Biden may have occasionally slurred his words but he wasn't a clear and present danger to mankind.
    Is there any evidence of cognitive decline with Trump?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,778
    Sean_F said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    I imagine Governor Newsom has done his Presidential chances no harm by his reponse to the threateed Texas gerrymander - which is in turn to threaten have California lead a mass of blue states in a similar effort to eradicate the opposition from Congress.

    The squealing from Republicans at this threat is a thing to behold....

    I think you need to check the 2024 results to see how much the Dems have already gerrymandered their states.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections#Per_state

    California
    Dem 43
    GOP 9
    Ratio 4.8:1

    Illinois
    Dem 14
    GOP 3
    Ratio 4.7:1

    New York
    Dem 19
    GOP 7
    Ratio 2.7:1

    Texas
    GOP 25
    Dem 13
    Ratio 1.9:1

    The balance of gerrymandering (and vote rigging) benefited the Dems in 2024.

    Which is why the GOP only had a House majority of 5 despite their 3% lead in the popular vote.
    Are you arguing for nationwide proportional representation ?
    The Democrats would probably go for that and take their chances; I'm pretty sure the GOP wouldn't.
    The results of the last six House elections have been highly proportionate to nationwide vote share.

    2012 was the last House election that the Republicans won, despite finishing slightly behind the Democrats in vote share.

    Partisan gerrymandering cancels itself out, at national level.

    It’s hard to see how Newsom could make the California electoral map any more favourable to the Democrats than it already is.
    There is a gerrymander that gives the Dems every seat in California
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,795

    "Suez" was a recognition we no longer were able to act totally independently as a world power - we weren't economically or politically strong enough.

    It happened quite late (1956) but it could have happened at any point over the previous 20 years, or even a few years later. We just didn't get involved in the 1930s and, during WWII, aside from aerial defence and the Royal Navy couldn't do much alone.

    So, it was a symptom, not a cause.

    We still had the second-largest economy in the world in 1956 by a long way. So saying that we couldn't act independently is another way of saying no other country apart from the US could do so.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 28,018
    Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Rubbish. Biden's cognitive health in his final year was reminiscent of Albert Einstein in his heyday compared to current Trump levels of cognitive decline.

    Biden may have occasionally slurred his words but he wasn't a clear and present danger to mankind.
    Is there any evidence of cognitive decline with Trump?
    He looks a lot less sharp than he did in 2016 - inevitably so given the ageing and stress he has endured.

    He's not near Biden levels yet though.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 67,213
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.

    We really aren't

    And while Trump lies almost as easily as BoZo, the problem with his mental decline is that he is starting to believe his own confabulations.

    He told a story a few weeks ago that his uncle taught the Unabomber.

    Yes, his uncle was a university professor.

    Yes, the unabomber went to university.

    Not the same university. Not at the same time. They never met.

    Biden was (mostly) harmless. Trump is a clear and present danger.
    I don't think that is evidence of decline. Trump through out his life loves to tell absolutely BS stories and also just openly lie about either being friends with people or never heard of them (despite loads of photos of them together). He was doing it 10 years ago on the campaign trail, easily fact checkable stories he would spew.

    Biden couldn't do 5 minute appearances. Trump in comparison is still out there muck spreading his BS like some kid with ADHD.
    Trump said he reduced drug prices by 1500%

    That's not just a lie. That's a mathematical impossibility that he no longer understands.

    He has mentally declined "by 1500% (sic) " since he was last in office
    The problem is there is no way of knowing whether he really thinks that drug price can be reduced by 1000% or whether he knows most of his base haven't the foggiest about even basic maths (and % are always something a lot of people struggle to truly grasp) and so it sounds plausible and a very good thing to say and "yeh - let's stick it to them elite fat cat drug companies" is a hit.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 46,480
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Not me and I'm as anti-Trump as you can get outside Michelle Obama. I hold close to zero hopes for him being removed on incapacity grounds. He is and remains supremely capable of doing the job as he sees it - that of exploiting the enormous power of the US presidency for personal gain.
    He has certainly declined compared to when you see his media appearances in say the 90s, but we are miles away from the sad state of affairs that was Biden, so he can ride it out as still able to say look at the other guy.

    Also, his whole shtick is clearly and obviously lying and changing like the wind, so its not like the bar is set where if he falls from some high pedestal of perceived honesty because his mental decline doesn't allow him to keep the plates spinning of half truths.
    Yes, it's his character not his health that renders him unfit to be president. The amazing trick he's pulled off - and it is amazing - is to have normal standards of behaviour suspended as regards to himself. Several times a day he says or does stuff that ought to disqualify him from office but people just chuckle (either admiringly or in sardonic bewilderment) and on we go. It's a truly bizarre phenomenon. I just hope a critical mass of the swing voters over there wake up to what they enabled on 5/11 and find a way to reverse it asap.
    Too many don't care. They like his message, which allows them to excuse anything that doesn't go against that message. It is more to do with cult than party politics.

    The same can be said for Farage over here: he can say any amount of shite and people will swallow it up, because they have faith in the package as a whole. There's even the FeDS: Farage excitable Defence Squaddies, who proactively try to spin anything that might be seen as bad for Farage or the Farage Party.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 28,949
    stodge said:

    FPT - for which apologies.

    Betting duty changes.

    Speculation that the Chancellor will raise and unify betting duty has been widespread, and has alarmed the horseracing industry in particular. From our point of view, as political (and sports) punters, it is important to maintain the distinction between skilful betting and games of chance.

    Here is a recent report and proposal:-

    The Duty to Differentiate: How gambling tax reform can raise revenue for the Government, reduce harm to the public and save British horse racing
    https://www.smf.co.uk/publications/online-gambling-tax-reform/


    Gordon Brown's proposals are near the end of his op-ed in the Guardian. The first 80 per cent is about child poverty. The part about betting is:-

    The gambling industry is a licence to print money. Tax it properly – and turbocharge the fight against child poverty

    Excluding the lottery, betting and gaming was an £11.5bn sector last year that incurred only £2.5bn in tax. As much as £3bn extra can be raised from taxing it properly. Remote gaming duty (effectively the tax on online slots games) is about 35% in the Netherlands, 40% in Austria, 50% in Pennsylvania and 57% in tax haven Delaware, two of the few US states where it is legal. Yet the same activity is taxed at just 21% in the UK, raising only £1bn. Applying a 50% levy – much less than the 80% tax on cigarettes and the 70% tax on whisky – would raise £1.6bn more. Raising the general betting duty on bookmakers’ profits from 15% to 25% could generate an additional £450m, after returning £100m as additional support to boost the horseracing industry.

    To achieve parity with their online equivalents, machine game duty payable on the revenue from in-person slot machines should also increase from 25% to 50%. According to IPPR estimates, this would raise an additional £880m.

    The government could then start to reduce child poverty. Unlike almost all other businesses, most gaming and betting is exempt from VAT. Its most addictive practices are responsible for social harm that costs the NHS and other public services more than £1bn a year.

    Gambling levies aren’t the only source of revenue that could pay to alleviate child poverty. But this should be one straightforward budget choice. The government can fulfil today’s unmet needs by taxing an undertaxed sector. Gambling won’t build our country for the next generation, but children, freed from poverty, will.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/aug/06/gambling-industry-profitable-tax-fight-child-poverty

    Horse racing is fighting a strong campaign against tax harmonisation between General Betting Duty and Remote Gaming Duty. The former is currently at 15% and the latter at 21%.

    From the outside, it's easy to look at horse racing as being a sport with plenty of money in it and of course the top end is extremely wealthy but, as is the case in many other industries, the wealth at the top disguises the poverty at the bottom. A lot of what goes on in racing from stable staff to hospitality workers at racecourses to ground staff doesn't command high wages and often involves long hours of often thankless work.

    Racing "claims" hundreds of jobs would be lost if the tax harmonisation plans came into force - the truth is the very top would continues as it does now and the "pain" would be felt at the lower levels (as it always is).

    The superficial attraction of Brown's policy idea belies the fact the industry would contract and those no longer able to work could go to the State for support. As racing stables are often in rural areas where alternative employment is scarce, it would mean further depopulation and increased demand on housing in urban areas. The £100m largesse sent back wouldn't cover all this.

    Yet, as yesterday's fixture announcement shows, racing has money to throw at increasing prize money and incentives for breeders (let's not forget the bloodstock industry which isn't just the top end stud farms).

    It's complicated as public policy always is with many layers and dimensions to consider.
    Perhaps we need to harmonise the "tax on remote online business" aka the Digital Services Tax to the same 21% ! :wink: .
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,609
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    As an aside, Goodwood reported a healthy increase in crowd numbers for its Festival meeting last week, The Public Enclosure (the cheap seats) had crowd numbers up 10% from 2024 while even the posh areas saw a 5% rise and that was despite last Thursdy's biblical deluge.

    Attendances at race meetings are doing well and some evidence there's still plenty of discretionary income out there to be spent despite the notion we are on our knees, society is broken and we are one step away from anarchy and barbarism under Labour.

    It's all much more nuanced than that - it always has been.

    Inequality is increasing, despite what politicians say. If you are retired, self employed, have a skilled trade or don’t have young children or a large mortgage, the chances are you will be comfortably off. If you are renting, have a young family, have no useful skills, or on minimum wage, you will be ever poorer.
    The NIESR report said as much yesterday and I commented the increase in rents in London (over 8%) is well above inflation and as you rightly say makes those who cannot get onto the housing ladder worse off.

    I'd go further and argue the private rental sector is one of the biggest housing problems we face - the demand for rental accommodation in London is always high but developers want to build properties for ownership and that's well beyond what most people can afford even for a deposit.

    You're also probably right - I've no information on the demographic of those who were at Goodwood last week. It looked from the tv coverage as though there were families present (being the school holidays) but I also suspect white, retired people were over-represented. They are at most midweek meetings which are primarily for the needy and the greedy.
    Don't worry about rents, Rushanara is on it.

    https://x.com/theipaper/status/1953152881617420311
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,795

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    As an aside, Goodwood reported a healthy increase in crowd numbers for its Festival meeting last week, The Public Enclosure (the cheap seats) had crowd numbers up 10% from 2024 while even the posh areas saw a 5% rise and that was despite last Thursdy's biblical deluge.

    Attendances at race meetings are doing well and some evidence there's still plenty of discretionary income out there to be spent despite the notion we are on our knees, society is broken and we are one step away from anarchy and barbarism under Labour.

    It's all much more nuanced than that - it always has been.

    Inequality is increasing, despite what politicians say. If you are retired, self employed, have a skilled trade or don’t have young children or a large mortgage, the chances are you will be comfortably off. If you are renting, have a young family, have no useful skills, or on minimum wage, you will be ever poorer.
    Taxes are higher than ever, so where's the money going?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,073

    Only over 75s, care home residents and immunosuppressed to be given Covid vax this Autumn.

    Good morning

    My wife and I have had a total of 10 covid vax, had covid itself twice and was really ill, and it looks like more to follow !!!!!!!!!!
    The thing is still about. Had COVID last week.
    It is indeed. And yet society operates as normal without lockdowns, without masks and with education. Hindsight is easy but I think the argument that we massively overreacted to a relatively moderate virus is now overwhelming. Of course, next time, we will have something far more severe and go the opposite way.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 20,778

    I imagine Governor Newsom has done his Presidential chances no harm by his reponse to the threateed Texas gerrymander - which is in turn to threaten have California lead a mass of blue states in a similar effort to eradicate the opposition from Congress.

    The squealing from Republicans at this threat is a thing to behold....

    I think you need to check the 2024 results to see how much the Dems have already gerrymandered their states.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections#Per_state

    California
    Dem 43
    GOP 9
    Ratio 4.8:1

    Illinois
    Dem 14
    GOP 3
    Ratio 4.7:1

    New York
    Dem 19
    GOP 7
    Ratio 2.7:1

    Texas
    GOP 25
    Dem 13
    Ratio 1.9:1

    The balance of gerrymandering (and vote rigging) benefited the Dems in 2024.

    Which is why the GOP only had a House majority of 5 despite their 3% lead in the popular vote.
    The ratio of seats between each party is an utterly useless statistic - it tells you nothing. What is important is the relationship between seat advantage and popular vote.

    It doesn’t matter if the GOP in Texas only got 190% more seats than the Dems if they only got 10% more votes. I don’t know those numbers, but I imagine the GOP gerrymanders are much worse.

    Neither side should gerrymander though. It’s an absolute stain on democracy.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,609
    DavidL said:

    Only over 75s, care home residents and immunosuppressed to be given Covid vax this Autumn.

    Good morning

    My wife and I have had a total of 10 covid vax, had covid itself twice and was really ill, and it looks like more to follow !!!!!!!!!!
    The thing is still about. Had COVID last week.
    It is indeed. And yet society operates as normal without lockdowns, without masks and with education. Hindsight is easy but I think the argument that we massively overreacted to a relatively moderate virus is now overwhelming. Of course, next time, we will have something far more severe and go the opposite way.
    We massively overreacted to a virus for which we didn't have a vaccine?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 56,073

    DavidL said:

    Only over 75s, care home residents and immunosuppressed to be given Covid vax this Autumn.

    Good morning

    My wife and I have had a total of 10 covid vax, had covid itself twice and was really ill, and it looks like more to follow !!!!!!!!!!
    The thing is still about. Had COVID last week.
    It is indeed. And yet society operates as normal without lockdowns, without masks and with education. Hindsight is easy but I think the argument that we massively overreacted to a relatively moderate virus is now overwhelming. Of course, next time, we will have something far more severe and go the opposite way.
    We massively overreacted to a virus for which we didn't have a vaccine?
    Yes.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 39,477
    Andy_JS said:

    Fishing said:

    If the 25th wasn't used when Biden's mental state was as it was, I doubt it will be invoked under Trump.

    Sadly, though, groundless wishful thinking has always been a curse of anti-Trumpists, and a blessing for Trump.

    Rubbish. Biden's cognitive health in his final year was reminiscent of Albert Einstein in his heyday compared to current Trump levels of cognitive decline.

    Biden may have occasionally slurred his words but he wasn't a clear and present danger to mankind.
    Is there any evidence of cognitive decline with Trump?
    Every time he speaks
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 46,553
    edited August 7

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    As an aside, Goodwood reported a healthy increase in crowd numbers for its Festival meeting last week, The Public Enclosure (the cheap seats) had crowd numbers up 10% from 2024 while even the posh areas saw a 5% rise and that was despite last Thursdy's biblical deluge.

    Attendances at race meetings are doing well and some evidence there's still plenty of discretionary income out there to be spent despite the notion we are on our knees, society is broken and we are one step away from anarchy and barbarism under Labour.

    It's all much more nuanced than that - it always has been.

    Inequality is increasing, despite what politicians say. If you are retired, self employed, have a skilled trade or don’t have young children or a large mortgage, the chances are you will be comfortably off. If you are renting, have a young family, have no useful skills, or on minimum wage, you will be ever poorer.
    Yes, and I'd like to see more focus on it. A Labour government should have 'reduce inequality' at the top of its priorities. It's what the party is for.

    I'll do it in Keir X speak:

    Britain is a wealthy country but too much of it is held by the few. This leaves many people struggling.
    We need a better and fairer way.
    My government will leave no stone unturned to find it. Oh yes.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 36,795
    DavidL said:

    Only over 75s, care home residents and immunosuppressed to be given Covid vax this Autumn.

    Good morning

    My wife and I have had a total of 10 covid vax, had covid itself twice and was really ill, and it looks like more to follow !!!!!!!!!!
    The thing is still about. Had COVID last week.
    It is indeed. And yet society operates as normal without lockdowns, without masks and with education. Hindsight is easy but I think the argument that we massively overreacted to a relatively moderate virus is now overwhelming. Of course, next time, we will have something far more severe and go the opposite way.
    It was frightening how popular lockdowns were with some people.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 44,609
    kinabalu said:

    stodge said:

    Morning all :)

    As an aside, Goodwood reported a healthy increase in crowd numbers for its Festival meeting last week, The Public Enclosure (the cheap seats) had crowd numbers up 10% from 2024 while even the posh areas saw a 5% rise and that was despite last Thursdy's biblical deluge.

    Attendances at race meetings are doing well and some evidence there's still plenty of discretionary income out there to be spent despite the notion we are on our knees, society is broken and we are one step away from anarchy and barbarism under Labour.

    It's all much more nuanced than that - it always has been.

    Inequality is increasing, despite what politicians say. If you are retired, self employed, have a skilled trade or don’t have young children or a large mortgage, the chances are you will be comfortably off. If you are renting, have a young family, have no useful skills, or on minimum wage, you will be ever poorer.
    Yes, and I'd like to see more focus on it. A Labour government should have 'reduce inequality' at the top of its priorities. It's what the party is for.

    I'll do it in Keir X speak:

    Britain is a wealthy country but too much of it is held by the few. This leaves many people struggling.
    We need a better and fairer way.
    My government will leave no stone unturned to find it. Oh yes.
    I think you could have chucked a 'laser like focus' in for good measure.
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