Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
The idea that trans is completely like homosexuality is bogus
Evidence: the recent rapid rise of trans identifying girls inversely correlates with the fall in cases of anorexia nervosa. Strongly suggesting that in many teens trans is actually a symptom of other mental issues - autism, repressed gayness, asexuality, simple teen misery
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Zero customers? Very odd - excellent reviews on google etc, CAMRA awards and so on. That seems like a demand issue - is it the lack of food service that is the issue? Their 7pm closure on a Saturday is a bit eccentric too.
I can't really compare because I'm in Edinburgh and it's absolutely heaving, along with the Highlands.
It's a tiny village and they are under 15 mins walk from another pub that does food, and is open until 10pm. They've been crowded out.
The industry is a vicious one too where a lack of customers can be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
People don't generally go out to a pub to be by themselves. If there's no atmosphere, and there is at another one, then there's an incentive to go to the other one. And everyone else can end up thinking the same thing, making it quite difficult for the quiet place to survive without drastic changes.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
I doubt whether many of those seven million people will live in Wonston.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Zero customers? Very odd - excellent reviews on google etc, CAMRA awards and so on. That seems like a demand issue - is it the lack of food service that is the issue? Their 7pm closure on a Saturday is a bit eccentric too.
I can't really compare because I'm in Edinburgh and it's absolutely heaving, along with the Highlands.
It's a tiny village and they are under 15 mins walk from another pub that does food, and is open until 10pm. They've been crowded out.
Their hours are absurd and the fact they don’t serve food is likewise going to hinder them
Nonetheless we are losing pub culture and it is such an intrinsic part of Britain and Britishness - it is our classic third space. We need to do all we can to save it
I agree. If you think they are a public good that has significant positive effects, particularly for rural communities, then:
You need to find a way to reduce taxes on them. You could do this in a fiscally neutral way by cutting duty in pubs but raising it in shops
It should be a capital offence to make noise complaints about them. 12pm licenses should be a standard, as well as for food.
Automatic planning permission to turn car parks/street parking and so on into beer gardens - my local has had a nightmare with this because the council won't let them obstruct the pavement (which is fair)
Also an acceptance that the crack down on drink driving has killed a lot of traditional coaching inns - they aren't coming back. Opening up for food helps a bit, but help should really be targeted at pubs with X hundred people within 30 minutes walk or some similar metric.*
* note that your bete noir of Barratt housing estates has contributed to this as well. It's takes ages and ages to plod home to detached house 3 miles from the High Street, wherelse an ancient and clustered village/market town everyone is in pissing distance of the local.
People banging on about defying woke are only ever going to get examples, as with pornography. How about the Peggie vs Fife case? Here you have senior members of staff claiming not to know if they are man or woman based on not having their chromosomes tested. You have a man with cock and balls allowed to use the womens single sex changing because that’s what he wants to happen, with no one asking the women if they have an issue with this. You have senior medical staff seemingly without scientific understanding of biology. Whatever your views of Peggie’s Glaswegian racism (Chinky, and Paki for instance), the treatment of her in the name of EDI has been shocking and is a classic case of Woke behaviour.
'Woke' is about awareness of social and political issues. Social and political issues effect both women and trans people; hence, it is possible to be 'woke' and be for, or against, trans. In the same way many feminists are pro-trans, and many are anti-trans.
Which is one of the reasons there is such a massive and stupid controversy over it.
The issue for me is the denial of basic science. Trans women can feel that they are a woman all they like, but biology says no. And you have clinicians, consultants no less, tying themselves in knots about this idea.
There is an old saying ‘Give them an inch and they will steal a mile’ and this is wha5 happens in the EDI world. People trying to be fair and do right by all end up with men in women’s changing rooms because ‘they feel that’s where they should be’. It’s bollocks (ironically enough).
Have you known, and talked, to anyone who is trans?
Yes. Next question.
*) And do you think it is as simple as you put above? *) What about transmen? *) Do you think the anti-woke and anti-EDI 'world' is positive? *) What about transwomen who have had the op and been living as women for decades?
1. Yes, except for those who are biologically unclear. 2. Not generally a safeguarding issue, so safeguarding matters come into play less. 3. No. 4. Even having an op doesn't change your real sex, however anyone who has had the op should be treated as the gender they have had the op towards, except potentially for matters such as sport which should remain reserved exclusively to those who really are of that sex.
Anyone who has not had the op definitely should not, no matter how they identify or live, if it violates safeguarding.
Which is different to what you wrote earlier, which was: "A man who identifies as a woman should not be in a woman's changing room, especially when there's gender-neutral facilities available they can use instead without violating women's safe spaces."
And that's a big issue with all of this: 'trans' people are far from being all the same, or even at the same stage of transition.
It also ignores the fact that the law states that someone has to live in their new identity for two years before they can have the op (a slightly shorter period in Scotland). Hence it makes it next-to impossible for someone to transition if they cannot use public toilets.
Besides, IMV the idea that banning trans people from women's bathrooms is unpoliceable, will cause massive harm to trans people, and will make f-all different to women's safety. And people on here routinely try to make the threats to women the 'other': trans people, or migrants. This is possibly because it allows them to ignore the massive threat to women: men like us. Your colleague at work. That kid's uncle. That cool guy who buys the drinks down the club.
Does the law state that people who are living in their new identity are forbidden from using gender-neutral facilities where they are available?
To take the Fife case, nurse Peggie was wrongly in my view told she should have gotten changed in a neutral cubicle if she didn't want to change with Beth Upton. The better solution would have been to tell Beth that if she didn't want to use the male toilets, then she could use the neutral one leaving the women's changing facilities free for women like Peggie.
Beth gets somewhere she can change, and women get somewhere they can and nobody loses out then.
Here's a test for you: try living your public life without using male toilets, and only use gender-neutral ones. You'd be quite lucky if it doesnt limit you a fair bit.
As as aside, and I've asked this before: is Beth in the Fife case pre-op, post-op, or going through the process?
I believe Beth has not had surgery from statements during the case.
So a cock in a frock then.
A biological man in the women’s changing room. And Fife NHS agreed that a man in the changing room would be wrong, except where they say ‘I’m a woman’.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
The Chequers and the Fairlop Oak in the North Ilford Ghetto are still there!
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Zero customers? Very odd - excellent reviews on google etc, CAMRA awards and so on. That seems like a demand issue - is it the lack of food service that is the issue? Their 7pm closure on a Saturday is a bit eccentric too.
I can't really compare because I'm in Edinburgh and it's absolutely heaving, along with the Highlands.
It's a tiny village and they are under 15 mins walk from another pub that does food, and is open until 10pm. They've been crowded out.
The industry is a vicious one too where a lack of customers can be a self-fulfilling prophecy.
People don't generally go out to a pub to be by themselves. If there's no atmosphere, and there is at another one, then there's an incentive to go to the other one. And everyone else can end up thinking the same thing, making it quite difficult for the quiet place to survive without drastic changes.
More importantly, people expect pub hours - 11am to 11pm.
You start “being efficient” and not opening those hours, and then people drop by and it’s closed…
Opening for a couple of hours at peak times sounds efficient. But….
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Zero customers? Very odd - excellent reviews on google etc, CAMRA awards and so on. That seems like a demand issue - is it the lack of food service that is the issue? Their 7pm closure on a Saturday is a bit eccentric too.
I can't really compare because I'm in Edinburgh and it's absolutely heaving, along with the Highlands.
It's a tiny village and they are under 15 mins walk from another pub that does food, and is open until 10pm. They've been crowded out.
Their hours are absurd and the fact they don’t serve food is likewise going to hinder them
Nonetheless we are losing pub culture and it is such an intrinsic part of Britain and Britishness - it is our classic third space. We need to do all we can to save it
The idea that trans is completely like homosexuality is bogus
Evidence: the recent rapid rise of trans identifying girls inversely correlates with the fall in cases of anorexia nervosa. Strongly suggesting that in many teens trans is actually a symptom of other mental issues - autism, repressed gayness, asexuality, simple teen misery
"The most obvious social contagion since the Children’s Crusade" as someone said in The Times yesterday.
No idea, but as a fan of casual hyperbole I enjoyed it.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
The consumption by the white population will go down if venues are being excluded to cater for differences though.
EG many pubs can/could make a significant chunk of change from corporate events. (After or during) work functions, parties, events and so on.
If alcohol-free venues are chosen to cater for those who don't drink, even though many would have drunk, then all of that business is lost, even if the number of people willing to drink hasn't declined.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
The consumption by the white population will go down if venues are being excluded to cater for differences though.
EG many pubs can/could make a significant chunk of change from corporate events. (After or during) work functions, parties, events and so on.
If alcohol-free venues are chosen to cater for those who don't drink, even though many would have drunk, then all of that business is lost, even if the number of people willing to drink hasn't declined.
You should have a word with our HR department. They go into crisis mode after the Christmas Parties - I think a lot of businesses deliberately swerve alcohol where possible.
Will Hutton @williamnhutton · 3m Great day at the Oval today - fantastic testament to test cricket. Two fantastic centuries, superb bowling and nail-biting . And for apostles of social collapse, people stand up for the elderly on the Tube. I left my bag unattended. And good humour abounded. Very British.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
I live in london. The closure of dozens if not hundreds of pubs in previously white areas - now Muslim etc - is a very real phenomenon, closely documented. It’s not some racist fabrication. Get a grip
I care not a whit what “PBers think” - half of them are midwit lefties who don’t have the mental capacity to handle uncomfortable truths
As for pubs elsewhere - village pubs, small town pubs - then yes of course many other factors are at play. A more teetotal generation - I see it in my own kids. Cost of living. Ageing populations Cheap supermarket booze. A preference for other highs
But none of these explanations are mutually exclusive. They are all killing off the British pub and it is very sad. And in london (and other big cities) it is linked to immigration from very alien cultures
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
I live in london. The closure of dozens if not hundreds of pubs in previously white areas - now Muslim etc - is a very real phenomenon, closely documented. It’s not some racist fabrication. Get a grip
I care not a whit what “PBers think” - half of them are midwit lefties who don’t have the mental capacity to handle uncomfortable truths
As for pubs elsewhere - village pubs, small town pubs - then yes of course many other factors are at play. A more teetotal generation - I see it in my own kids. Cost of living. Ageing populations Cheap supermarket booze. A preference for other highs
But none of these explanations are mutually exclusive. They are all killing off the British pub and it is very sad. And in london (and other big cities) it is linked to immigration from very alien cultures
You don't make up half of PB Leon. Not more than 30% at best,
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
The consumption by the white population will go down if venues are being excluded to cater for differences though.
EG many pubs can/could make a significant chunk of change from corporate events. (After or during) work functions, parties, events and so on.
If alcohol-free venues are chosen to cater for those who don't drink, even though many would have drunk, then all of that business is lost, even if the number of people willing to drink hasn't declined.
You should have a word with our HR department. They go into crisis mode after the Christmas Parties - I think a lot of businesses deliberately swerve alcohol where possible.
We have two employees who live in Utah, who asked our HR department if we could not serve alcohol at the Christmas party. I said that anyone bothered by the presence of alcohol was under no obligation to attend.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
The consumption by the white population will go down if venues are being excluded to cater for differences though.
EG many pubs can/could make a significant chunk of change from corporate events. (After or during) work functions, parties, events and so on.
If alcohol-free venues are chosen to cater for those who don't drink, even though many would have drunk, then all of that business is lost, even if the number of people willing to drink hasn't declined.
You should have a word with our HR department. They go into crisis mode after the Christmas Parties - I think a lot of businesses deliberately swerve alcohol where possible.
We have two employees who live in Utah, who asked our HR department if we could not serve alcohol at the Christmas party. I said that anyone bothered by the presence of alcohol was under no obligation to attend.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
I live in london. The closure of dozens if not hundreds of pubs in previously white areas - now Muslim etc - is a very real phenomenon, closely documented. It’s not some racist fabrication. Get a grip
I care not a whit what “PBers think” - half of them are midwit lefties who don’t have the mental capacity to handle uncomfortable truths
As for pubs elsewhere - village pubs, small town pubs - then yes of course many other factors are at play. A more teetotal generation - I see it in my own kids. Cost of living. Ageing populations Cheap supermarket booze. A preference for other highs
But none of these explanations are mutually exclusive. They are all killing off the British pub and it is very sad. And in london (and other big cities) it is linked to immigration from very alien cultures
And in Ilford North (50% Muslim), we still have our King George V, New Fairlop Oak, Chequers, and Old Maypole. Still going strong.
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
You could always entertain us with some original insight or witty riff or a…
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
The consumption by the white population will go down if venues are being excluded to cater for differences though.
EG many pubs can/could make a significant chunk of change from corporate events. (After or during) work functions, parties, events and so on.
If alcohol-free venues are chosen to cater for those who don't drink, even though many would have drunk, then all of that business is lost, even if the number of people willing to drink hasn't declined.
Nobody is forcing teetotallers to drink alcohol at a function in a pub. Once again, the majority suffering to suit the minority.
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
Hmpfttt
I'm sure the ECB are going to give you a Hundred reasons to be disappointed.
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
Hmpfttt
Don't forget the Hundred 👿
I keep trying to forget it but the BBC love it and keep banging on about it…
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
Hmpfttt
Don't forget the Hundred 👿
Yeah it’s bollocks
Just checking the weather - london is forecast two weeks of solid sun from Monday. We could have had more tests!
I guess it’s greedy but this has been such royal entertainment
Certainly as good as brilliant Ashes series of 2023 (but let’s see how it ends)
What cricket needs to do is level up 4 or 5 other teams - SA, Windies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh - so they can all compete as gamely as England Oz and India
Then we could have superb test series every summer and winter and the best format of sport in the world would survive and thrive
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
Hmpfttt
Don't forget the Hundred 👿
Yeah it’s bollocks
Just checking the weather - london is forecast two weeks of solid sun from Monday. We could have had more tests!
I guess it’s greedy but this has been such royal entertainment
Certainly as good as brilliant Ashes series of 2023 (but let’s see how it ends)
What cricket needs to do is level up 4 or 5 other teams - SA, Windies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh - so they can all compete as gamely as England Oz and India
Then we could have superb test series every summer and winter and the best format of sport in the world would survive and thrive
SA are already a top Test team, like England, Aus and India.
The others, not so much.
Disappointing none of the B nations are touring this summer though along with India, most summers we normally get 2 Test series in the summer not one I thought.
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
Hmpfttt
Don't forget the Hundred 👿
Yeah it’s bollocks
Just checking the weather - london is forecast two weeks of solid sun from Monday. We could have had more tests!
I guess it’s greedy but this has been such royal entertainment
Certainly as good as brilliant Ashes series of 2023 (but let’s see how it ends)
What cricket needs to do is level up 4 or 5 other teams - SA, Windies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh - so they can all compete as gamely as England Oz and India
Then we could have superb test series every summer and winter and the best format of sport in the world would survive and thrive
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
Hmpfttt
Don't forget the Hundred 👿
Yeah it’s bollocks
Just checking the weather - london is forecast two weeks of solid sun from Monday. We could have had more tests!
I guess it’s greedy but this has been such royal entertainment
Certainly as good as brilliant Ashes series of 2023 (but let’s see how it ends)
What cricket needs to do is level up 4 or 5 other teams - SA, Windies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh - so they can all compete as gamely as England Oz and India
Then we could have superb test series every summer and winter and the best format of sport in the world would survive and thrive
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
Hmpfttt
Don't forget the Hundred 👿
Yeah it’s bollocks
Just checking the weather - london is forecast two weeks of solid sun from Monday. We could have had more tests!
I guess it’s greedy but this has been such royal entertainment
Certainly as good as brilliant Ashes series of 2023 (but let’s see how it ends)
What cricket needs to do is level up 4 or 5 other teams - SA, Windies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh - so they can all compete as gamely as England Oz and India
Then we could have superb test series every summer and winter and the best format of sport in the world would survive and thrive
SA are already a top Test team, like England, Aus and India.
The others, not so much.
Disappointing none of the B nations are touring this summer though along with India, most summers we normally get 2 Test series in the summer not one I thought.
We had Zimbabwe in a ‘test’ plus these five. Prefer that to two three match series.
Just catching up with PB and I see it's been a rather fractious day. And as this came to mind today on the back of my dearest friend having a difficult time...
The fantasy fleets discussion, as usual, misses the most important point: THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE.
There's no point wanking off about 12 x SSN when we've had one SSN on the wall for 2 years and another for 1 year due to lack of crew.
Because the most serious shortage is at SNCO/CPO level any attempt at fixing that will only bear fruit 10-15 years hence. It would require making that effort the priority now and mothballing or scrapping some humanpower intensive ships (like carriers) to free up SNCO/CPO types for recruitment and training. So the RN could be grown significantly, leaving aside the idea of whether this is justified or not, but it would require long range thinking and an appetite for taking unpopular decisions now. Does any of that seem likely to happen?
On F-35... I think the 'A' purchase is a silent acknowledgement that JFL, like JFH before it, has failed. The carriers will eventually transition to an RPAS air wing and F-35 will become a 100% RAF enterprise. Which, to be fair, is a more propitious situation than the current arrangement where more than half the air wing has to be pressed into going to sea.
This weekend... 30% of PB is Leon raving. 60% of PB is people fact-checking Leon. 10% is cricket commentary. This is quite dull. Not that I'm against fact-checking people who are raving. I just wish it wasn't necessary.
With such an enthralling Test, it should be 30% cricket at the very least.
We need to raise our socks PB!
If this series had been against Australia I think it would go down in history as 2005 did. It’s been epic, and still in the balance going into the last day.
I’m going to be quite lost when it’s over
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
Hmpfttt
Don't forget the Hundred 👿
Yeah it’s bollocks
Just checking the weather - london is forecast two weeks of solid sun from Monday. We could have had more tests!
I guess it’s greedy but this has been such royal entertainment
Certainly as good as brilliant Ashes series of 2023 (but let’s see how it ends)
What cricket needs to do is level up 4 or 5 other teams - SA, Windies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh - so they can all compete as gamely as England Oz and India
Then we could have superb test series every summer and winter and the best format of sport in the world would survive and thrive
Where am I?
Stratford
Um, correct
New "branches" of Sadler's Wells, the BBC, and the V & A Museum, plus the big building is London College of Fashion.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
You’ve not noticed the near-complete disappearance of pubs from several parts of east london, then
Non sequitur. You wrote about the 'lovely pub', which was in Wonston.
“The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants” is what you said
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
The white population hasn't decreased. Tbh, it's probably more that the white population doesn't drink as much any more.
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
The consumption by the white population will go down if venues are being excluded to cater for differences though.
EG many pubs can/could make a significant chunk of change from corporate events. (After or during) work functions, parties, events and so on.
If alcohol-free venues are chosen to cater for those who don't drink, even though many would have drunk, then all of that business is lost, even if the number of people willing to drink hasn't declined.
Nobody is forcing teetotallers to drink alcohol at a function in a pub. Once again, the majority suffering to suit the minority.
Companies are stopping alcohol (and Christmas bashes) because of inevitable HR problems.
If you hold an event that has a free bar, plus nothing to do but drink and eat a bit, someone will do something stupid.
In the past a few assaults, sexual or otherwise, would be ignored. These days, there is less tolerance.
The fantasy fleets discussion, as usual, misses the most important point: THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE.
There's no point wanking off about 12 x SSN when we've had one SSN on the wall for 2 years and another for 1 year due to lack of crew.
Because the most serious shortage is at SNCO/CPO level any attempt at fixing that will only bear fruit 10-15 years hence. It would require making that effort the priority now and mothballing or scrapping some humanpower intensive ships (like carriers) to free up SNCO/CPO types for recruitment and training. So the RN could be grown significantly, leaving aside the idea of whether this is justified or not, but it would require long range thinking and an appetite for taking unpopular decisions now. Does any of that seem likely to happen?
On F-35... I think the 'A' purchase is a silent acknowledgement that JFL, like JFH before it, has failed. The carriers will eventually transition to an RPAS air wing and F-35 will become a 100% RAF enterprise. Which, to be fair, is a more propitious situation than the current arrangement where more than half the air wing has to be pressed into going to sea.
Rough translation: the carriers will become drone carriers because the critical factor is lack of people. Conversely they could sell the carriers, redeploy the people to existing ships to fill the gaps, and give the F35Bs to the RAF or sell them
GB Politics @GBPolitcs 🚨NEW: A migrant from an asylum hotel has been charged with attempting to kidnap a 10-year-old girl
All these briefings various authorities have given to media talking about possibilities of a summer of riots and the attempted cover up in Nuneaton, I am starting to wonder if there is something that has been buried that will have to be revealed due to court cases.
People banging on about defying woke are only ever going to get examples, as with pornography. How about the Peggie vs Fife case? Here you have senior members of staff claiming not to know if they are man or woman based on not having their chromosomes tested. You have a man with cock and balls allowed to use the womens single sex changing because that’s what he wants to happen, with no one asking the women if they have an issue with this. You have senior medical staff seemingly without scientific understanding of biology. Whatever your views of Peggie’s Glaswegian racism (Chinky, and Paki for instance), the treatment of her in the name of EDI has been shocking and is a classic case of Woke behaviour.
'Woke' is about awareness of social and political issues. Social and political issues effect both women and trans people; hence, it is possible to be 'woke' and be for, or against, trans. In the same way many feminists are pro-trans, and many are anti-trans.
Which is one of the reasons there is such a massive and stupid controversy over it.
The issue for me is the denial of basic science. Trans women can feel that they are a woman all they like, but biology says no. And you have clinicians, consultants no less, tying themselves in knots about this idea.
There is an old saying ‘Give them an inch and they will steal a mile’ and this is wha5 happens in the EDI world. People trying to be fair and do right by all end up with men in women’s changing rooms because ‘they feel that’s where they should be’. It’s bollocks (ironically enough).
Have you known, and talked, to anyone who is trans?
Yes. Next question.
*) And do you think it is as simple as you put above? *) What about transmen? *) Do you think the anti-woke and anti-EDI 'world' is positive? *) What about transwomen who have had the op and been living as women for decades?
1. Yes, except for those who are biologically unclear. 2. Not generally a safeguarding issue, so safeguarding matters come into play less. 3. No. 4. Even having an op doesn't change your real sex, however anyone who has had the op should be treated as the gender they have had the op towards, except potentially for matters such as sport which should remain reserved exclusively to those who really are of that sex.
Anyone who has not had the op definitely should not, no matter how they identify or live, if it violates safeguarding.
Which is different to what you wrote earlier, which was: "A man who identifies as a woman should not be in a woman's changing room, especially when there's gender-neutral facilities available they can use instead without violating women's safe spaces."
And that's a big issue with all of this: 'trans' people are far from being all the same, or even at the same stage of transition.
It also ignores the fact that the law states that someone has to live in their new identity for two years before they can have the op (a slightly shorter period in Scotland). Hence it makes it next-to impossible for someone to transition if they cannot use public toilets.
Besides, IMV the idea that banning trans people from women's bathrooms is unpoliceable, will cause massive harm to trans people, and will make f-all different to women's safety. And people on here routinely try to make the threats to women the 'other': trans people, or migrants. This is possibly because it allows them to ignore the massive threat to women: men like us. Your colleague at work. That kid's uncle. That cool guy who buys the drinks down the club.
Does the law state that people who are living in their new identity are forbidden from using gender-neutral facilities where they are available?
To take the Fife case, nurse Peggie was wrongly in my view told she should have gotten changed in a neutral cubicle if she didn't want to change with Beth Upton. The better solution would have been to tell Beth that if she didn't want to use the male toilets, then she could use the neutral one leaving the women's changing facilities free for women like Peggie.
Beth gets somewhere she can change, and women get somewhere they can and nobody loses out then.
As for unpoliceable, it is very policeable, especially in a workplace. If someone enters a changing facility they shouldn't be in, or violates any other form of safeguarding, then people who object should be able to whistleblow and the offending individual can then either get training or disciplinary action as appropriate. Same as any other workplace policing of rules.
May I enquire why you and others refer to Nurse Peggie as Peggie whilst referring to Dr Upton as Beth?
Good evening, everybody.
Because when speaking its normal to drop titles unless being formal and just use first names.
Their first names respectively are Peggie and Beth, so those are the names to use.
The idea that trans is completely like homosexuality is bogus
Evidence: the recent rapid rise of trans identifying girls inversely correlates with the fall in cases of anorexia nervosa. Strongly suggesting that in many teens trans is actually a symptom of other mental issues - autism, repressed gayness, asexuality, simple teen misery
That's a polycausal defect view: that trans is caused by something wrong, and the task of the diagnostician is to search for that something wrong and treat that. I think that if you are saying that the cause is "autism, repressed gayness, asexuality, simple teen misery" then what you are saying is that you don't know what causes it.
One number that I don't know is the percentage of children who are referred per year. Most analysis have looked at the proportions of the referred (eg "X% of the referred are girls"), but what I want is the proportion of the population who are referred and the proportions of the referred who then undergo surgery/hormones. Those are different numbers.
The idea that trans is completely like homosexuality is bogus
Evidence: the recent rapid rise of trans identifying girls inversely correlates with the fall in cases of anorexia nervosa. Strongly suggesting that in many teens trans is actually a symptom of other mental issues - autism, repressed gayness, asexuality, simple teen misery
That's a polycausal defect view: that trans is caused by something wrong, and the task of the diagnostician is to search for that something wrong and treat that. I think that if you are saying that the cause is "autism, repressed gayness, asexuality, simple teen misery" then what you are saying is that you don't know what causes it.
One number that I don't know is the percentage of children who are referred per year. Most analysis have looked at the proportions of the referred (eg "X% of the referred are girls"), but what I want is the proportion of the population who are referred and the proportions of the referred who then undergo surgery/hormones. Those are different numbers.
Women/girls go through puberty earlier, so if teenage angst/uncertainty in own body that is a factor then girls perhaps should go sooner.
The author of that article clearly has an agenda to promote "gender affirming" care but their data could be interpreted an entirely different way. The fact that biological girls are more likely to identify as trans as teenagers but that collapses as adults, could indicate that it is a stage of teen angst that girls grow out of.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
How would that make any difference? It is not as if we are deporting people who do understand pub culture. It is more likely a combination of the smoking ban, an end to lunchtime and after-work drinking, cheaper booze from supermarkets, and cheaper highs from drugs. Then there are rising expenses whether from wages, taxes or rip-off pubcos.
People banging on about defying woke are only ever going to get examples, as with pornography. How about the Peggie vs Fife case? Here you have senior members of staff claiming not to know if they are man or woman based on not having their chromosomes tested. You have a man with cock and balls allowed to use the womens single sex changing because that’s what he wants to happen, with no one asking the women if they have an issue with this. You have senior medical staff seemingly without scientific understanding of biology. Whatever your views of Peggie’s Glaswegian racism (Chinky, and Paki for instance), the treatment of her in the name of EDI has been shocking and is a classic case of Woke behaviour.
'Woke' is about awareness of social and political issues. Social and political issues effect both women and trans people; hence, it is possible to be 'woke' and be for, or against, trans. In the same way many feminists are pro-trans, and many are anti-trans.
Which is one of the reasons there is such a massive and stupid controversy over it.
The issue for me is the denial of basic science. Trans women can feel that they are a woman all they like, but biology says no. And you have clinicians, consultants no less, tying themselves in knots about this idea.
There is an old saying ‘Give them an inch and they will steal a mile’ and this is wha5 happens in the EDI world. People trying to be fair and do right by all end up with men in women’s changing rooms because ‘they feel that’s where they should be’. It’s bollocks (ironically enough).
Have you known, and talked, to anyone who is trans?
Yes. Next question.
*) And do you think it is as simple as you put above? *) What about transmen? *) Do you think the anti-woke and anti-EDI 'world' is positive? *) What about transwomen who have had the op and been living as women for decades?
1. Yes, except for those who are biologically unclear. 2. Not generally a safeguarding issue, so safeguarding matters come into play less. 3. No. 4. Even having an op doesn't change your real sex, however anyone who has had the op should be treated as the gender they have had the op towards, except potentially for matters such as sport which should remain reserved exclusively to those who really are of that sex.
Anyone who has not had the op definitely should not, no matter how they identify or live, if it violates safeguarding.
Which is different to what you wrote earlier, which was: "A man who identifies as a woman should not be in a woman's changing room, especially when there's gender-neutral facilities available they can use instead without violating women's safe spaces."
And that's a big issue with all of this: 'trans' people are far from being all the same, or even at the same stage of transition.
It also ignores the fact that the law states that someone has to live in their new identity for two years before they can have the op (a slightly shorter period in Scotland). Hence it makes it next-to impossible for someone to transition if they cannot use public toilets.
Besides, IMV the idea that banning trans people from women's bathrooms is unpoliceable, will cause massive harm to trans people, and will make f-all different to women's safety. And people on here routinely try to make the threats to women the 'other': trans people, or migrants. This is possibly because it allows them to ignore the massive threat to women: men like us. Your colleague at work. That kid's uncle. That cool guy who buys the drinks down the club.
Does the law state that people who are living in their new identity are forbidden from using gender-neutral facilities where they are available?
To take the Fife case, nurse Peggie was wrongly in my view told she should have gotten changed in a neutral cubicle if she didn't want to change with Beth Upton. The better solution would have been to tell Beth that if she didn't want to use the male toilets, then she could use the neutral one leaving the women's changing facilities free for women like Peggie.
Beth gets somewhere she can change, and women get somewhere they can and nobody loses out then.
As for unpoliceable, it is very policeable, especially in a workplace. If someone enters a changing facility they shouldn't be in, or violates any other form of safeguarding, then people who object should be able to whistleblow and the offending individual can then either get training or disciplinary action as appropriate. Same as any other workplace policing of rules.
May I enquire why you and others refer to Nurse Peggie as Peggie whilst referring to Dr Upton as Beth?
Good evening, everybody.
The preferred usage by the respondents (I.e. Fife NHS and Dr Upton). seemed to be Miss Peggie and a slight snigger because it sounds like Miss Piggy. Despite Peggie being married.
No, people refer to Nurse Peggie as Peggie by mistaken equivalence to Beth for Beth Upton because Peggie sounds like Peggy which used to be a common first name derived from Margaret. PBer Cyclefree sometimes makes a similar complaint (ironically of misgendering) because her surname sounds like a male first name.
The idea that trans is completely like homosexuality is bogus
Evidence: the recent rapid rise of trans identifying girls inversely correlates with the fall in cases of anorexia nervosa. Strongly suggesting that in many teens trans is actually a symptom of other mental issues - autism, repressed gayness, asexuality, simple teen misery
That's a polycausal defect view: that trans is caused by something wrong, and the task of the diagnostician is to search for that something wrong and treat that. I think that if you are saying that the cause is "autism, repressed gayness, asexuality, simple teen misery" then what you are saying is that you don't know what causes it...
The truth is that we have very little in the way of good historical data to compare against - and that current data is also pretty sketchy (obviously not helped by the politics).
There's another hypothesis about causes, arguably more credible, which hasn't been mentioned.
GB Politics @GBPolitcs 🚨NEW: A migrant from an asylum hotel has been charged with attempting to kidnap a 10-year-old girl
All these briefings various authorities have given to media talking about possibilities of a summer of riots and the attempted cover up in Nuneaton, I am starting to wonder if there is something that has been buried that will have to be revealed due to court cases.
The Home Office always worries about a summer of riots because hot weather means people go to pubs (pace Leon) get pie-eyed and angry and then riot.
..Reuters interviews with two Indian officials and three of their Pakistani counterparts found that the performance of the Rafale wasn't the key problem: Central to its downing was an Indian intelligence failure concerning the range of the China-made PL-15 missile fired by the J-10 fighter. China and Pakistan are the only countries to operate both J-10s, known as Vigorous Dragons, and PL-15s. The faulty intelligence gave the Rafale pilots a false sense of confidence they were out of Pakistani firing distance, which they believed was only around 150 km, the Indian officials said, referring to the widely cited range of PL-15's export variant...
..The PL-15 that hit the Rafale was fired from around 200km (124.27 mi) away, according to Pakistani officials, and even farther according to Indian officials. That would make it among the longest-range air-to-air strikes recorded...
The UK's Meteor missile has a similar range. Our F35s still can't carry it.
Pakistan's Saab 2000 AEW was used in targeting the Indian aircraft.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Even by your standards your correlation of declining pub numbers to the Starmerwave of mass immigration is one giant leap.
Anyway since last July this Government have dispensed with the prison boat on the Solent that was home to all the asylum seekers and housed asylum seekers in 5* hotels. What do 5* hotels have? 5* bars! This Government are doing their bit to encourage a drinking culture
Morning all. Having had a scan through the comments on pubs from someone currently on a beach somewhere else, my goto source for factchecking is the House of Commons Library which gives a good summary of the factors leading to the decline in pubs.
However what caught my eye was the recent report - *Sunday* 3rd August - on The Crown and the Constitution. Wonder if they are expecting a sudden change at the top. The succession bit is quite detailed.
Morning all. Having had a scan through the comments on pubs from someone currently on a beach somewhere else, my goto source for factchecking is the House of Commons Library which gives a good summary of the factors leading to the decline in pubs.
However what caught my eye was the recent report - *Sunday* 3rd August - on The Crown and the Constitution. Wonder if they are expecting a sudden change at the top. The succession bit is quite detailed.
Have checked Ladbrooks to see if there has been anything posted but can't find anything yet.
Given it is almost thirty years since we had a monarch aged under 70 and actually also rather a long time since we had one not being treated for cancer they would be fools *not* to have a very active succession plan in place.
Not, of course, that their being fools should surprise anyone.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
Therer are several connected problems for publicans, but the major problem is the property market. Those PubCos with big estates can get a massive windfall if they convert to housing. The overhead on pubs, including large taxes on alcohol, makes many pubs marginally profitable, at best. Converting loss making pubs into residential buildings is a no brainer. Demand for alcohol has fallen per capita, but selling beer is basically acting as a tax collector for the Revenue anyway, which is why so many pubs now try and boost their margins by selling food etc. The competition from supermarkets- same tax, lower cost, so higher margin even if they sell at lower prices, has been an9ther major driver of pub closures. If instead of Racism, Leon had simply read the trade press, like the Morning Advertiser, then he would understand the problem rather than spouting drivel.
You can still do the Viccy Park pubcrawl last time I checked. Ergo, Leon, as per fucking usual, is speaking mince.
There used to be 37 pubs on the Old Kent Road. Now there are 2
It's not a new phenomonon. Back in 1993 I lived for a year in student figs behind Stepney Green tube station. Me and a mate used to occasionally do a pub crawl up ?Globe Road? towards Roman Road. There were a fair few pubs in that stretch, and we'd go in, mid-evening, and there would often be just the barmaid and one or two customers. Packed, they were not.
When I went back before the Millennium, almost all had closed. We can all choose our preferred 'cause' for the closures; but they were probably all marginal businesses at the best of time, being situated away from the main throughfares of Whitechapel Road.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
(On this occasion I've snipped Leon's walloping.)
It's a pub in a small village outside Winchester, near Middle Mallop, that doesn't serve any food, so needs travel-in customers - either by motor, cycle, charabanc or foot. I wonder why it's empty at 6pm on a summer Saturday? As the landlady puts it:
The Wonston Arms Pub Landlord @thewonstonarms 13h Hello, yeah, the little ones Arms has never sold food in his history, which is going back something like 300 years. It’s a meeting place for people to come and socialise & mix together. Young and Old. Yeah, it’s a traditional old-fashioned British Pub https://x.com/thewonstonarms/status/1952038825846526427
"Western leaders have condemned videos of emaciated Israeli hostages filmed by their captors in Gaza, with the Red Cross calling for access to all remaining in captivity."
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
That's near Sutton Scotney, near my parents. Just off the A303 so it should get some passing trade too.
The pub has problems of its own choosing, hours and food, but also things outside their control. Firstly Winchester is buzzing - was last there in February and everywhere heaving on a grey Saturday afternoon - Rick Stein rammed*, the Ivy didn’t even have space at the bar, even Côte looked full as I passed, the pubs absolutely chokka. I hear from friends it’s like this most weekends.
So if you live near Winchester you have the draw of loads of good restaurants and pubs with a great atmosphere rather than in the quiet of the local, which will appeal still to some but not many these days.
The second problem for them is Uber - it used to be quite difficult to get a taxi from the centre of towns/market towns/ cathedral cities - not enough drivers so a long wait, not guaranteed to get one back home due to demand and also some drivers who didn’t want to drive out to the country with no hope of a return fare. Uber increasing the numbers of drivers massively in places like this means that people happily go out knowing that they will likely get a driver relatively quickly when they are ready so the old thought process of going to your local in walking distance so you can drink and don’t have to worry about getting home has been removed.
*The restaurant of course, I didn’t just stumble across Mr Stein getting back-ended down an alleyway.
I am in despair about the economic incompetence of this government and the damage that it is doing to our already weak economy but even I would find it more than a bit of a stretch to blame them for the parlous state of the hostelry trade which has been ongoing for the best part of a couple of decades.
Cheap supermarket booze, a very strong tendency to "pre's" drinking the same at home before trips out, the use of phones and group chats to mean conversations can be had without gathering in some boozer, the stricter rules on underage drinking (once again obviated by drinking at home), a lack of investment, greedy chains and breweries squeezing landlords too hard, the reasons for the collapse of the traditional pub are endless and ongoing. Other than the increases in minimum wage and ENI I can't think of any specific damage that the government has inflicted.
Saturday 05:55pm mid service and we had no customers its Mad ! …..gorgeous sunny evening. Can’t believe this is happening. Consumer behaviours changing on top of Government actions to make hospitality #taxedout wow-we are all amazing folk operating hospitality venues at the mo
Worrying isn't it. i know I cast nastersiums on the Government but they really, really don't know how to run an economy. Not in "oh those lefties are awful" sense, more like "chimps randomly pressing buttons" sense. The left wing used to have brains, an underlying model of the world, and policies they believed would make life better. Now, they're professional politicians who just say nonsense words to get them thru the next day. I'm really annoyed.
Makes me very sad. Looks like a lovely pub as well
I know, let’s import seven million people who don’t understand pub culture and often fiercely reject it
Yes, all those Muslims not going to The Wonston Arms in the pretty little Hampshire village of Wonston are to blame for the problems of that lovely pub. You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
He's not bonkers. He's a troll who has figured out a reliable a way of getting a rise out of people. The more they rise, the more he'll do it.
The fantasy fleets discussion, as usual, misses the most important point: THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE.
There's no point wanking off about 12 x SSN when we've had one SSN on the wall for 2 years and another for 1 year due to lack of crew.
Because the most serious shortage is at SNCO/CPO level any attempt at fixing that will only bear fruit 10-15 years hence. It would require making that effort the priority now and mothballing or scrapping some humanpower intensive ships (like carriers) to free up SNCO/CPO types for recruitment and training. So the RN could be grown significantly, leaving aside the idea of whether this is justified or not, but it would require long range thinking and an appetite for taking unpopular decisions now. Does any of that seem likely to happen?
On F-35... I think the 'A' purchase is a silent acknowledgement that JFL, like JFH before it, has failed. The carriers will eventually transition to an RPAS air wing and F-35 will become a 100% RAF enterprise. Which, to be fair, is a more propitious situation than the current arrangement where more than half the air wing has to be pressed into going to sea.
It didn't miss the point. My post specifically highlighted the challenge of staffing.
Non commissioned officers not being focused enough on recruitment or training is a problem in both the Royal Navy and the Army.
The fantasy fleets discussion, as usual, misses the most important point: THERE AREN'T ENOUGH PEOPLE.
There's no point wanking off about 12 x SSN when we've had one SSN on the wall for 2 years and another for 1 year due to lack of crew.
Because the most serious shortage is at SNCO/CPO level any attempt at fixing that will only bear fruit 10-15 years hence. It would require making that effort the priority now and mothballing or scrapping some humanpower intensive ships (like carriers) to free up SNCO/CPO types for recruitment and training. So the RN could be grown significantly, leaving aside the idea of whether this is justified or not, but it would require long range thinking and an appetite for taking unpopular decisions now. Does any of that seem likely to happen?
On F-35... I think the 'A' purchase is a silent acknowledgement that JFL, like JFH before it, has failed. The carriers will eventually transition to an RPAS air wing and F-35 will become a 100% RAF enterprise. Which, to be fair, is a more propitious situation than the current arrangement where more than half the air wing has to be pressed into going to sea.
It didn't miss the point. My post specifically highlighted the challenge of staffing.
Non commissioned officers not being focused enough on recruitment or training is a problem in both the Royal Navy and the Army.
Recruitment and training costs lots of money. I doubt the problem is lack of will on the NCO's part, who probably quite like bossing recruits about. Lack of funding would be at the heart of it.
A friend of mine posted on Twitter/X a picture of him sitting in a lovely historic London pub. It was early evening mid week and he was the only one in the pub. He wondered how much longer the pub could survive. I was about to post a sympathetic tweet and then I realised I have been to a pub once this year. Years ago it was three or four times a week.
Incidentally, my friend came to this country with his family from India when he was a young child, so as an immigrant he is trying his best to keep pub culture alive.
People banging on about defying woke are only ever going to get examples, as with pornography. How about the Peggie vs Fife case? Here you have senior members of staff claiming not to know if they are man or woman based on not having their chromosomes tested. You have a man with cock and balls allowed to use the womens single sex changing because that’s what he wants to happen, with no one asking the women if they have an issue with this. You have senior medical staff seemingly without scientific understanding of biology. Whatever your views of Peggie’s Glaswegian racism (Chinky, and Paki for instance), the treatment of her in the name of EDI has been shocking and is a classic case of Woke behaviour.
'Woke' is about awareness of social and political issues. Social and political issues effect both women and trans people; hence, it is possible to be 'woke' and be for, or against, trans. In the same way many feminists are pro-trans, and many are anti-trans.
Which is one of the reasons there is such a massive and stupid controversy over it.
The issue for me is the denial of basic science. Trans women can feel that they are a woman all they like, but biology says no. And you have clinicians, consultants no less, tying themselves in knots about this idea.
There is an old saying ‘Give them an inch and they will steal a mile’ and this is wha5 happens in the EDI world. People trying to be fair and do right by all end up with men in women’s changing rooms because ‘they feel that’s where they should be’. It’s bollocks (ironically enough).
Have you known, and talked, to anyone who is trans?
Yes. Next question.
*) And do you think it is as simple as you put above? *) What about transmen? *) Do you think the anti-woke and anti-EDI 'world' is positive? *) What about transwomen who have had the op and been living as women for decades?
1. Yes, except for those who are biologically unclear. 2. Not generally a safeguarding issue, so safeguarding matters come into play less. 3. No. 4. Even having an op doesn't change your real sex, however anyone who has had the op should be treated as the gender they have had the op towards, except potentially for matters such as sport which should remain reserved exclusively to those who really are of that sex.
Anyone who has not had the op definitely should not, no matter how they identify or live, if it violates safeguarding.
Which is different to what you wrote earlier, which was: "A man who identifies as a woman should not be in a woman's changing room, especially when there's gender-neutral facilities available they can use instead without violating women's safe spaces."
And that's a big issue with all of this: 'trans' people are far from being all the same, or even at the same stage of transition.
It also ignores the fact that the law states that someone has to live in their new identity for two years before they can have the op (a slightly shorter period in Scotland). Hence it makes it next-to impossible for someone to transition if they cannot use public toilets.
Besides, IMV the idea that banning trans people from women's bathrooms is unpoliceable, will cause massive harm to trans people, and will make f-all different to women's safety. And people on here routinely try to make the threats to women the 'other': trans people, or migrants. This is possibly because it allows them to ignore the massive threat to women: men like us. Your colleague at work. That kid's uncle. That cool guy who buys the drinks down the club.
Does the law state that people who are living in their new identity are forbidden from using gender-neutral facilities where they are available?
To take the Fife case, nurse Peggie was wrongly in my view told she should have gotten changed in a neutral cubicle if she didn't want to change with Beth Upton. The better solution would have been to tell Beth that if she didn't want to use the male toilets, then she could use the neutral one leaving the women's changing facilities free for women like Peggie.
Beth gets somewhere she can change, and women get somewhere they can and nobody loses out then.
As for unpoliceable, it is very policeable, especially in a workplace. If someone enters a changing facility they shouldn't be in, or violates any other form of safeguarding, then people who object should be able to whistleblow and the offending individual can then either get training or disciplinary action as appropriate. Same as any other workplace policing of rules.
May I enquire why you and others refer to Nurse Peggie as Peggie whilst referring to Dr Upton as Beth?
Good evening, everybody.
The preferred usage by the respondents (I.e. Fife NHS and Dr Upton). seemed to be Miss Peggie and a slight snigger because it sounds like Miss Piggy. Despite Peggie being married.
No, people refer to Nurse Peggie as Peggie by mistaken equivalence to Beth for Beth Upton because Peggie sounds like Peggy which used to be a common first name derived from Margaret. PBer Cyclefree sometimes makes a similar complaint (ironically of misgendering) because her surname sounds like a male first name.
Comments
You're going completely bonkers. The decline in pubs is nowt to do with immigrants, much more to do with regrettable changes in English culture - like cheap supermarket booze and Netflix etc..
Evidence: the recent rapid rise of trans identifying girls inversely correlates with the fall in cases of anorexia nervosa. Strongly suggesting that in many teens trans is actually a symptom of other mental issues - autism, repressed gayness, asexuality, simple teen misery
People don't generally go out to a pub to be by themselves. If there's no atmosphere, and there is at another one, then there's an incentive to go to the other one. And everyone else can end up thinking the same thing, making it quite difficult for the quiet place to survive without drastic changes.
* note that your bete noir of Barratt housing estates has contributed to this as well. It's takes ages and ages to plod home to detached house 3 miles from the High Street, wherelse an ancient and clustered village/market town everyone is in pissing distance of the local.
A weird place we have reached.
I’ve just shown that you are wrong. As ever
This is a silly take and is not going dissuade those PBers who think you're turning into a raving racist.
You start “being efficient” and not opening those hours, and then people drop by and it’s closed…
Opening for a couple of hours at peak times sounds efficient. But….
No idea, but as a fan of casual hyperbole I enjoyed it.
EG many pubs can/could make a significant chunk of change from corporate events. (After or during) work functions, parties, events and so on.
If alcohol-free venues are chosen to cater for those who don't drink, even though many would have drunk, then all of that business is lost, even if the number of people willing to drink hasn't declined.
@williamnhutton
·
3m
Great day at the Oval today - fantastic testament to test cricket. Two fantastic centuries, superb bowling and nail-biting . And for apostles of social collapse, people stand up for the elderly on the Tube. I left my bag unattended. And good humour abounded. Very British.
https://x.com/williamnhutton/status/1952106240282099843
I care not a whit what “PBers think” - half of them are midwit lefties who don’t have the mental capacity to handle uncomfortable truths
As for pubs elsewhere - village pubs, small town pubs - then yes of course many other factors are at play. A more teetotal generation - I see it in my own kids. Cost of living. Ageing populations Cheap supermarket booze. A preference for other highs
But none of these explanations are mutually exclusive. They are all killing off the British pub and it is very sad. And in london (and other big cities) it is linked to immigration from very alien cultures
Just About To Reboot The Server, There May Be Some Downrtime
Narrow Road to the Deep North
BBC
My god it’s bleak but it’s also very powerful. Excellent laconic script. So much is said by what is unsaid. It’s like Pinter
Bill Kristol
@BillKristol
·
52m
NEW. U Mass Poll.
Trump approve/disapprove: 38%/58% (cf. April, 44/53)
How much have you read, seen, or heard about Jeffrey Epstein?
A lot 36%
Some 41%
Not much 19%
Nothing 4%.
Trump administration hiding important information? Agree 63%. Disagree 15%.
https://x.com/BillKristol
Ah, got it. See the problem
We need to raise our socks PB!
How on earth can a terminal program be a 131Mb download?
A great test series is such an adornment to an English summer. It marks the rhythms of the sunlit weeks
Thursday! A new test match!
I suppose it’s ending so soon - early August?! - so we can have lots of one dayers and T20
Hmpfttt
Just checking the weather - london is forecast two weeks of solid sun from Monday. We could have had more tests!
I guess it’s greedy but this has been such royal entertainment
Certainly as good as brilliant Ashes series of 2023 (but let’s see how it ends)
What cricket needs to do is level up 4 or 5 other teams - SA, Windies, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh - so they can all compete as gamely as England Oz and India
Then we could have superb test series every summer and winter and the best format of sport in the world would survive and thrive
The others, not so much.
Disappointing none of the B nations are touring this summer though along with India, most summers we normally get 2 Test series in the summer not one I thought.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xegzMpQ1Rd4
"King Creosote - "Ides", from the album 'I DES'"
It's endless:
GB Politics
@GBPolitcs
🚨NEW: A migrant from an asylum hotel has been charged with attempting to kidnap a 10-year-old girl
Hated it.
There's no point wanking off about 12 x SSN when we've had one SSN on the wall for 2 years and another for 1 year due to lack of crew.
Because the most serious shortage is at SNCO/CPO level any attempt at fixing that will only bear fruit 10-15 years hence. It would require making that effort the priority now and mothballing or scrapping some humanpower intensive ships (like carriers) to free up SNCO/CPO types for recruitment and training. So the RN could be grown significantly, leaving aside the idea of whether this is justified or not, but it would require long range thinking and an appetite for taking unpopular decisions now. Does any of that seem likely to happen?
On F-35... I think the 'A' purchase is a silent acknowledgement that JFL, like JFH before it, has failed. The carriers will eventually transition to an RPAS air wing and F-35 will become a 100% RAF enterprise. Which, to be fair, is a more propitious situation than the current arrangement where more than half the air wing has to be pressed into going to sea.
New "branches" of Sadler's Wells, the BBC, and the V & A Museum, plus the big building is London College of Fashion.
If you hold an event that has a free bar, plus nothing to do but drink and eat a bit, someone will do something stupid.
In the past a few assaults, sexual or otherwise, would be ignored. These days, there is less tolerance.
She is Sandie Peggie.
One number that I don't know is the percentage of children who are referred per year. Most analysis have looked at the proportions of the referred (eg "X% of the referred are girls"), but what I want is the proportion of the population who are referred and the proportions of the referred who then undergo surgery/hormones. Those are different numbers.
Consider the diagram in this article: https://theconversation.com/critics-claim-gender-clinics-are-seeing-an-excess-of-trans-boys-but-new-data-suggest-otherwise-257817 . It demonstrates that in the Netherlands and Australia women and girls are referred earlier, men and boys are referred later. Is this a cohort effect, an actual phenomenon, or something else? Netherlands and Australia are liberal with regards to trans rights: what does this graph look like in a more conservative one?
Women/girls go through puberty earlier, so if teenage angst/uncertainty in own body that is a factor then girls perhaps should go sooner.
The author of that article clearly has an agenda to promote "gender affirming" care but their data could be interpreted an entirely different way. The fact that biological girls are more likely to identify as trans as teenagers but that collapses as adults, could indicate that it is a stage of teen angst that girls grow out of.
I hope people also realize the head of BLS is also responsible for CPI-W, which is used to set the annual increases for Social Security.
https://x.com/mcuban/status/1951748999096172945
There's another hypothesis about causes, arguably more credible, which hasn't been mentioned.
World in $1.5tn ‘plastics crisis’ hitting health from infancy to old age, report warns
Plastic production has increased more than 200 times since 1950 and hits health at every stage from extraction to disposal, says review in the Lancet
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/03/world-in-15tn-plastics-crisis-hitting-health-from-infancy-to-old-age-report-warns
https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/how-pakistan-shot-down-indias-cutting-edge-fighter-using-chinese-gear-2025-08-02/
..Reuters interviews with two Indian officials and three of their Pakistani counterparts found that the performance of the Rafale wasn't the key problem: Central to its downing was an Indian intelligence failure concerning the range of the China-made PL-15 missile fired by the J-10 fighter. China and Pakistan are the only countries to operate both J-10s, known as Vigorous Dragons, and PL-15s.
The faulty intelligence gave the Rafale pilots a false sense of confidence they were out of Pakistani firing distance, which they believed was only around 150 km, the Indian officials said, referring to the widely cited range of PL-15's export variant...
..The PL-15 that hit the Rafale was fired from around 200km (124.27 mi) away, according to Pakistani officials, and even farther according to Indian officials. That would make it among the longest-range air-to-air strikes recorded...
The UK's Meteor missile has a similar range.
Our F35s still can't carry it.
Pakistan's Saab 2000 AEW was used in targeting the Indian aircraft.
Anyway since last July this Government have dispensed with the prison boat on the Solent that was home to all the asylum seekers and housed asylum seekers in 5* hotels. What do 5* hotels have? 5* bars! This Government are doing their bit to encourage a drinking culture
However what caught my eye was the recent report - *Sunday* 3rd August - on The Crown and the Constitution. Wonder if they are expecting a sudden change at the top. The succession bit is quite detailed.
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-8885/
Have checked Ladbrooks to see if there has been anything posted but can't find anything yet.
Not, of course, that their being fools should surprise anyone.
Demand for alcohol has fallen per capita, but selling beer is basically acting as a tax collector for the Revenue anyway, which is why so many pubs now try and boost their margins by selling food etc.
The competition from supermarkets- same tax, lower cost, so higher margin even if they sell at lower prices, has been an9ther major driver of pub closures.
If instead of Racism, Leon had simply read the trade press, like the Morning Advertiser, then he would understand the problem rather than spouting drivel.
When I went back before the Millennium, almost all had closed. We can all choose our preferred 'cause' for the closures; but they were probably all marginal businesses at the best of time, being situated away from the main throughfares of Whitechapel Road.
It's a pub in a small village outside Winchester, near Middle Mallop, that doesn't serve any food, so needs travel-in customers - either by motor, cycle, charabanc or foot. I wonder why it's empty at 6pm on a summer Saturday? As the landlady puts it:
The Wonston Arms Pub Landlord
@thewonstonarms 13h
Hello, yeah, the little ones Arms has never sold food in his history, which is going back something like 300 years. It’s a meeting place for people to come and socialise & mix together. Young and Old. Yeah, it’s a traditional old-fashioned British Pub
https://x.com/thewonstonarms/status/1952038825846526427
It's been like that for a long time. Someone needs an updated business model. I have ones like that locally that did not adapt, and are now houses, and others that did. They tried a community buyout a decade ago, and someone made a go of it.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/feb/28/hampshire-pub-wonston-arms-camra-pub-of-the-year
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crr2dwn7q40o
On my list now.
So if you live near Winchester you have the draw of loads of good restaurants and pubs with a great atmosphere rather than in the quiet of the local, which will appeal still to some but not many these days.
The second problem for them is Uber - it used to be quite difficult to get a taxi from the centre of towns/market towns/ cathedral cities - not enough drivers so a long wait, not guaranteed to get one back home due to demand and also some drivers who didn’t want to drive out to the country with no hope of a return fare. Uber increasing the numbers of drivers massively in places like this means that people happily go out knowing that they will likely get a driver relatively quickly when they are ready so the old thought process of going to your local in walking distance so you can drink and don’t have to worry about getting home has been removed.
*The restaurant of course, I didn’t just stumble across Mr Stein getting back-ended down an alleyway.
Cheap supermarket booze, a very strong tendency to "pre's" drinking the same at home before trips out, the use of phones and group chats to mean conversations can be had without gathering in some boozer, the stricter rules on underage drinking (once again obviated by drinking at home), a lack of investment, greedy chains and breweries squeezing landlords too hard, the reasons for the collapse of the traditional pub are endless and ongoing. Other than the increases in minimum wage and ENI I can't think of any specific damage that the government has inflicted.
Non commissioned officers not being focused enough on recruitment or training is a problem in both the Royal Navy and the Army.
I’m old enough to remember when for about 5 minutes he was future pm material on here.
https://x.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1952101257365053688?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
Incidentally, my friend came to this country with his family from India when he was a young child, so as an immigrant he is trying his best to keep pub culture alive.
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